Yup, been using em for years now. If you aren't camming over and getting hard contact with the shellholder, you just don't get consistent setback. I laugh when people say "just back the die out, it does the same thing for free". My measurements say otherwise. Great video, Keith!
For those getting barrels turned by a gunsmith…I had mine run the reamer into my barrel cutoff to make a comparator. It works great for both headspace comparison/measuring shoulder bump and finding jam for max base to ojive.
I'm new to handloading, and I can definitely relate to chasing that consistent. 002" shoulder bum-... err, I mean clearance. Luckily I'm only loading for one cartridge(.308), and only for one rifle chambered in that cartridge. So far I've gone through and sized 120 Hornady cases, and 100 of them had .002-.003" clearance. It was odd however, that some of them - with no changes to the die or techique - wound up with up to .005" clearance. Still within SAAMI spec, but not what I'm after. So I found myself tinkering with the die lock ring, and I found that with it loose it had a lot of play in the threads. So I tightened the lock ring to where it barely would move - helped some, but it still got a little wonky on some cases. I think a Hornady Lock-&-Load conversion kit might be a good fix. That way once I get the sizing die where it needs to be I can really cinch it down in the L&L bushing and have more consistently sized brass.
I do this on every barrel I install. I have to cut the stub off anyway....so I plunge the reamer till I pass the shoulder. This usually leaves the makers info and builds the gauge. I then part it off and begin the chamber work. Makes finding the jam easy as pie.
Thank you for all of your useful content... novice FTR shooter at local matches only... from the time that I began to watch your videos I have been able to earn a couple 2nd and 3rd place medals using a factory ri fle, but good hand loads and technique.
Thank you for confirming what I always wondered. “Bump the shoulder .002” never made sense to me. Bump against a baseline of what? No 2 cases come out exactly the same after firing. So I finally measured the chamber by using the tape method and stripped bolt. Always great videos!
For checking set back and OG distance i glued a washer to the base if my comparator. This way i am removing any potential primer depth variation from the process
Thanks! Retired and shoot against myself. Shooting the 6.5 yesterday I noticed that shells with no bolt close friction were doing better than the ones with light feel. I’ve got all the stuff so I’ll set up the press anneal and work to that bolt close dimension. I use the Hornady collars, so it should be repeatable. I have the shell holders as well, but haven’t used them lately.
I load on a forster co-ax the dies are set and locked. So resizing is always spot on. It's never occurred to me how good it is to have that till I saw what I'd have to do if I wasn't using this press. I took my time setting it up the 1st time and 2000 rounds later. I believe I've had to make an adjustment once to the die to fine tune the bump.
I set up my die by starting "loose" and slowly turn in, test one piece of brass in my rifle, until the bolt just closes, with a little effort (standard hunting rifles) and then run them.. not "match grade" but works good for my needs :) Exceptions being .223 and .270, which I have multiple rifles for, so they all get "full sized"...
Back in the 60s, when people were having trouble with head separations on magnum because of pushing the shoulder back, you would either ink the neck or smoke it and just touch that shoulder neck junction. Make sure it would chamber in the gun set it and forget it I realize that wasn't reloading at this level, but it sure seemed to work
One reason that I have changed my Forster co-ax press from the open and closed shell jaw holder to the fixed shell case holder, using the same press. Now the die holder still has some movement on the Co-ax as compared to a threaded one.
Been bumping shoulder .003 for 996 rounds…and still wants more to close bolt lightly without fire control in bolt. Scratchin head there. But just go with it… shoulder clearance makes sense… hard to get over moving more for clearance . Bolts clean and greased action clean
It seems like most ways to get consistent brass is nearly exhausted. Weight sorted, shoulder bumped, mandrel expanded, primer depth, etc. The only thing I can think of remaining is the thickness of the base. If one has a X thousands thickness base rim, and another Y thickness, then wouldn't it cause shoulder bumped brass to still have a varying internal volume (because we're including a varying thickness base in the measurement)? Leading to potential varying pressures upon ignition?
What you were saying between 210 and 230 min mark is exactly why I almost always only have to neck size my hunting brass up to 3 firings. I do not compete but do a lot of handloading. Example: New Tikka T3x 270 Winchester. Took 60 rounds of factory Winchester PP ammo I got on clearance about 10 years ago for 6.99/box. Each of those fired cases easily rechambered that rifle when I got home. Annealed, wet tumbled, neck sized, trimmed, and all easily rechambered again. Thus, there was no need to FL size. I think a lot of people are so hung up on the need to FL size their hunting cases no matter what. If I had FL sized all those cases, I would have bumped the shoulder 0.002. What if they already had that much clearance? Then they'd be sized too much in my opinion. I FL size when the case shows me it's time to do so. Yes, I know FL sizing creates uniform brass on the EXTERIOR but no one knows the internal dimensions case to case. The good part is not having to lube any cases with neck sizing. It's worked well and to my satisfaction for a long time and I've never had an issue. Those 60 neck sized cases were all loaded back with 52.0 gr H4350 and 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips and Federal 210 primers. 6 deer tagged that season (2023) that rifle, that load, no issues. Again, this is hunting application only.
I'm probably way doing this wrong but at the risk of getting flamed... what i started doing a few years ago was just measuring my shoulder on 10-20 or so fired rounds. Then i take the longest one, set it to bump that case back at full stroke. chamber check it for smooth bolt. anything shorter gets to grow if needed. after that batch of brass is shot a few times they tend to be really close and stay really close. Am i right to do this? No idea but it seems to be working for me. Using forster dies and a co-ax press. no shell holder.
Great video. After ten years of shooting the .284, knowing what you know today and shooting this cartridge in F class. Would you recommend a different cartridge today ? Thank you for your videos.
If you're a fan of Mr. Cortina, you damn well know better than to just shoulder bump... check it in the rifle, then check to that reference dimension. I know it's a pricey spend, but the variability of removing/resetting dies is precisely why I moved to the 419 ZERO press with the modular shellholder system... Not that you should do this, but as an experiment I resized a partial batch of brass, turned the turret (a few times) to perform some operations on other caliber, then went back to that resizing operation, and I was dead on my previous measurement to within a half-thou. The precision repeatability of that thing is well worth it.
New to me using different shell holders to size. Could use a bit more detail on that and how that works. I think I've got it but more detail would be appreciated
The Redding compilation shell holders are a set. They are .010, .008, .006, .004, .002 deeper than standard shell holders. A standard shell holder may size too much, so you can use a different shell holder to get your .001-.003 shoulder bump.
Shoot an howa 1500 6.5 creed, i use eagle eyes Hornady ammo but they are 280.25 and i have a hard time with my howa magazine the ammo don’t fit well, 5 out of 10 don’t feed, so fare i did not fit an other magazine who fit the howa, what can i do Love your your tube video
I've found that even after sever al firings...I have a variation of three thou, from maximum length to 3 thou shorter. I don't believe this to be uncommon. Brass is annealed evey time. Perhaps I could improve my fire forming technique....saw primal rights episode on this... But ..I doubt I'll be making false shoulders.... Roading is interesting.. Thanks for sharing.
I jam bullets @ .005-.010 with a good avg. of .008 so not to have extraction issues, & never do, and, I avoid annealing with zero neck tension issues to cause precision accuracy loss, nor do I lose any case life, that said, shoulder bump is a sizing method for dedicated brass/case - rifle only & so it fits & allows just enough "space" to close bolt with ease AND be able to extract loaded rounds if necessary.......watch some videos on it for some great tips.
.....Good discussion, that said, all the dudes that have bought the cadillac of turret presses for 1k+, & imagine there is no movement.......lmao !!!!.....but,..... there are those poor slobs that will imagine that, or, claim it's consistent......lol
No one has claimed the Zero press doesn't move. It obviously will because of it being a turret press. However it is definitely consistent if you're bumping the shellholder against the die. Mine even with non annealed Hornady brass (garbage) will bump within 5 tenths every time.
![เจ็บที่ยังฮัก - ม่อน วรวิทย์ [ Official Mv ] จอนนี่มิวสิค](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KALIGSRSjFs/mqdefault.jpg)
Yup, been using em for years now. If you aren't camming over and getting hard contact with the shellholder, you just don't get consistent setback. I laugh when people say "just back the die out, it does the same thing for free". My measurements say otherwise. Great video, Keith!
For those getting barrels turned by a gunsmith…I had mine run the reamer into my barrel cutoff to make a comparator. It works great for both headspace comparison/measuring shoulder bump and finding jam for max base to ojive.
Great idea mate ✌️
I'm new to handloading, and I can definitely relate to chasing that consistent. 002" shoulder bum-... err, I mean clearance. Luckily I'm only loading for one cartridge(.308), and only for one rifle chambered in that cartridge. So far I've gone through and sized 120 Hornady cases, and 100 of them had .002-.003" clearance. It was odd however, that some of them - with no changes to the die or techique - wound up with up to .005" clearance. Still within SAAMI spec, but not what I'm after.
So I found myself tinkering with the die lock ring, and I found that with it loose it had a lot of play in the threads. So I tightened the lock ring to where it barely would move - helped some, but it still got a little wonky on some cases. I think a Hornady Lock-&-Load conversion kit might be a good fix. That way once I get the sizing die where it needs to be I can really cinch it down in the L&L bushing and have more consistently sized brass.
I do this on every barrel I install. I have to cut the stub off anyway....so I plunge the reamer till I pass the shoulder. This usually leaves the makers info and builds the gauge. I then part it off and begin the chamber work. Makes finding the jam easy as pie.
I used to use a shim. These shell holders make life easy. Thanks for all your videos.
Thank you for all of your useful content... novice FTR shooter at local matches only... from the time that I began to watch your videos I have been able to earn a couple 2nd and 3rd place medals using a factory ri fle, but good hand loads and technique.
Thank you for confirming what I always wondered. “Bump the shoulder .002” never made sense to me. Bump against a baseline of what? No 2 cases come out exactly the same after firing. So I finally measured the chamber by using the tape method and stripped bolt. Always great videos!
Those redding shell holders are a game chamber for me... so simple and effective...
Great tip here, I’ve been using the competition shell holders a few years now.
You’re an encyclopedia of knowledge. Thank you for always sharing👍👋🤝🤝🤝
This clip and the one on First Sizing After Fireforming are both excellent and have convinced me to buy a set of Redding competition shell holders.
excellent video thank you....
For checking set back and OG distance i glued a washer to the base if my comparator. This way i am removing any potential primer depth variation from the process
Thanks! Retired and shoot against myself. Shooting the 6.5 yesterday I noticed that shells with no bolt close friction were doing better than the ones with light feel. I’ve got all the stuff so I’ll set up the press anneal and work to that bolt close dimension. I use the Hornady collars, so it should be repeatable. I have the shell holders as well, but haven’t used them lately.
I load on a forster co-ax the dies are set and locked. So resizing is always spot on.
It's never occurred to me how good it is to have that till I saw what I'd have to do if I wasn't using this press.
I took my time setting it up the 1st time and 2000 rounds later. I believe I've had to make an adjustment once to the die to fine tune the bump.
Same here. Only been reloading for a yr or so. And my initial goal was precision. That's why I went with the co-axe
If you dont aneal, leave your brass in the sizing die at top of stroke while you lube the next case. The extra dwell time helps with spring back.
I set up my die by starting "loose" and slowly turn in, test one piece of brass in my rifle, until the bolt just closes, with a little effort (standard hunting rifles) and then run them.. not "match grade" but works good for my needs :) Exceptions being .223 and .270, which I have multiple rifles for, so they all get "full sized"...
That's why I use the shims with my short action customs sizing dies. They never need to be threaded up or down.
Back in the 60s, when people were having trouble with head separations on magnum because of pushing the shoulder back, you would either ink the neck or smoke it and just touch that shoulder neck junction. Make sure it would chamber in the gun set it and forget it I realize that wasn't reloading at this level, but it sure seemed to work
The RCBS precision mic is a great tool to use.
One reason that I have changed my Forster co-ax press from the open and closed shell jaw holder to the fixed shell case holder, using the same press. Now the die holder still has some movement on the Co-ax as compared to a threaded one.
Been bumping shoulder .003 for 996 rounds…and still wants more to close bolt lightly without fire control in bolt. Scratchin head there. But just go with it… shoulder clearance makes sense… hard to get over moving more for clearance . Bolts clean and greased action clean
It seems like most ways to get consistent brass is nearly exhausted. Weight sorted, shoulder bumped, mandrel expanded, primer depth, etc. The only thing I can think of remaining is the thickness of the base. If one has a X thousands thickness base rim, and another Y thickness, then wouldn't it cause shoulder bumped brass to still have a varying internal volume (because we're including a varying thickness base in the measurement)? Leading to potential varying pressures upon ignition?
What you were saying between 210 and 230 min mark is exactly why I almost always only have to neck size my hunting brass up to 3 firings. I do not compete but do a lot of handloading. Example: New Tikka T3x 270 Winchester. Took 60 rounds of factory Winchester PP ammo I got on clearance about 10 years ago for 6.99/box. Each of those fired cases easily rechambered that rifle when I got home. Annealed, wet tumbled, neck sized, trimmed, and all easily rechambered again. Thus, there was no need to FL size. I think a lot of people are so hung up on the need to FL size their hunting cases no matter what. If I had FL sized all those cases, I would have bumped the shoulder 0.002. What if they already had that much clearance? Then they'd be sized too much in my opinion. I FL size when the case shows me it's time to do so. Yes, I know FL sizing creates uniform brass on the EXTERIOR but no one knows the internal dimensions case to case. The good part is not having to lube any cases with neck sizing. It's worked well and to my satisfaction for a long time and I've never had an issue. Those 60 neck sized cases were all loaded back with 52.0 gr H4350 and 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips and Federal 210 primers. 6 deer tagged that season (2023) that rifle, that load, no issues. Again, this is hunting application only.
I'm probably way doing this wrong but at the risk of getting flamed... what i started doing a few years ago was just measuring my shoulder on 10-20 or so fired rounds. Then i take the longest one, set it to bump that case back at full stroke. chamber check it for smooth bolt. anything shorter gets to grow if needed. after that batch of brass is shot a few times they tend to be really close and stay really close. Am i right to do this? No idea but it seems to be working for me. Using forster dies and a co-ax press. no shell holder.
Great video. After ten years of shooting the .284, knowing what you know today and shooting this cartridge in F class. Would you recommend a different cartridge today ? Thank you for your videos.
If you're a fan of Mr. Cortina, you damn well know better than to just shoulder bump... check it in the rifle, then check to that reference dimension. I know it's a pricey spend, but the variability of removing/resetting dies is precisely why I moved to the 419 ZERO press with the modular shellholder system... Not that you should do this, but as an experiment I resized a partial batch of brass, turned the turret (a few times) to perform some operations on other caliber, then went back to that resizing operation, and I was dead on my previous measurement to within a half-thou. The precision repeatability of that thing is well worth it.
New to me using different shell holders to size. Could use a bit more detail on that and how that works. I think I've got it but more detail would be appreciated
The Redding compilation shell holders are a set. They are .010, .008, .006, .004, .002 deeper than standard shell holders. A standard shell holder may size too much, so you can use a different shell holder to get your .001-.003 shoulder bump.
Shoot an howa 1500 6.5 creed, i use eagle eyes Hornady ammo but they are 280.25 and i have a hard time with my howa magazine the ammo don’t fit well, 5 out of 10 don’t feed, so fare i did not fit an other magazine who fit the howa, what can i do
Love your your tube video
What are your thoughts on turret presses?
I've found that even after sever al firings...I have a variation of three thou, from maximum length to 3 thou shorter.
I don't believe this to be uncommon.
Brass is annealed evey time.
Perhaps I could improve my fire forming technique....saw primal rights episode on this...
But ..I doubt I'll be making false shoulders....
Roading is interesting..
Thanks for sharing.
Do belted and rimmed cases have lower es numbers ?
Knot head here. Heard all this before. EXCEPT NOW I WONT NEED ADVILL. ( maybe some)
Does shoulder bump matter much when you jam the boolit?
I jam bullets @ .005-.010 with a good avg. of .008 so not to have extraction issues, & never do, and, I avoid annealing with zero neck tension issues to cause precision accuracy loss, nor do I lose any case life, that said, shoulder bump is a sizing method for dedicated brass/case - rifle only & so it fits & allows just enough "space" to close bolt with ease AND be able to extract loaded rounds if necessary.......watch some videos on it for some great tips.
.....Good discussion, that said, all the dudes that have bought the cadillac of turret presses for 1k+, & imagine there is no movement.......lmao !!!!.....but,..... there are those poor slobs that will imagine that, or, claim it's consistent......lol
No one has claimed the Zero press doesn't move. It obviously will because of it being a turret press. However it is definitely consistent if you're bumping the shellholder against the die. Mine even with non annealed Hornady brass (garbage) will bump within 5 tenths every time.
Whaaat?? Think a little bit, then set yourself up for success with the gear you use on the components you run??
Makes sense to me...