In retrospect the studio being taken over by a large company and its creator being committed to an insane asylum really is the most thematically appropriate way for the IP to end.
too bad that the creative property is now sinking with these parasitic scum. i wanted to know about edgar claire and la puta madre maybe we could have had a game set in coal city or jamrock or boogie street and expanded the lore of the franchise. but just like socialism good things like this arent allowed to flourish and developed by greedy corpo leeches
@garrick3727 it's more poignant because the overarching theme through everything is Harry being an addict that may or may not ever reach any clarity about it. The game shits on every political ideology. The one constant is the corruption and oblivion of being in the throes of addiction
@@poopsmith6853 Right. The video simplifies what DE is about so much that I have to wonder if the content creator actually played it rather than just read about it. A much better point could have been made by someone who understood the game.
yeah, this is totally gonna sink the franchise. the new owners are literally the embodiment of one of the things the game warned about: Corporate greed.
Ironic that socialists who have no problem with the state stealing and redistributing property and wealth are angry about having something stolen from them. This isn't a story about corporate greed, but instead simple theft.
Lmao you think gamers care. The group that has the loudest voice about things like this are the minority. Same with people screaming to stop preordering. A majority of people just don’t give a shit
Not just this game, Cyberpunk as well. Guess which other faction decided to sue CDPR after its bad release. The very shareholders that demanded them to rush it.
The worst part is, if you brought the idea for disco Elysium to the same people who stole the IP, they would laugh you out of the room. They are so afraid to take risks artistically that all they can do is steal ideas that have gained traction
you know, i want to play this game from bottom of my brain, like you would learn for school or others in your life, add it to your routine but the bugs keeps nodding their head. fuck this game and creator
You know it's crazy how if ZA/UM had just let the production team actually do their jobs, the Golden Goose would've laid ANOTHER EGG, but instead they butchered the Golden Goose for its meat...
Long term investments are good for everybody. Unfortunately, modern capitalists are not ideologically pure, not economically intelligent, but because the economy is so inaccessible to the lower class, they can’t really get any competition either. So we get short-cited, short-term greed that hurts everybody in the long run. If the system forced improvement instead of getting everything now now now, (like it was always intended to do,) the system would function for everybody’s interest. It’s all about how accessible the market is to everybody. Giving the little guy a chance to be big is key to positive competition, and better circulation of value for everybody. Crazy stuff, man
That's clearly very bad management and there is nothing we can do about it. Isn't it odd that everytime someone has a good idea that sells well, another person much richer and powerful take the decision to "capitalise on that idea" and fumble? Every. Fucking. Time. (Oh, players like your game but we need a battle pass and a premium curency, make the game less fair so they won't have any choice than grinding or spending money.)
Good write up but its weird how you completely neglected to mention Helen Hindpere who was also a key writer who was also ousted in the hostile takeover. She wrote a large chunk of the games text alongside Kurvitz and her contributions at least warrant some sort of mention. It's wild to me that multiple sources you cite from and show ON SCREEN mention her yet you couldn't even give the barest of shout outs.
I noticed this oversight too. Maybe she isn't a minority shareholder so doesn't fit the legal narrative, but its definitely worth mentioning as she's the Lead Writer so stacks up that creative core leaving the company. The sequel is going to be creatively bereft.
It's so sad - Disco Elysium grabbed me in a way no other game had in about 20 years, it was a bone fide masterpiece, and now it's been ruined by the very corporate greed it railed against. This world has so much potential, to see it squandered in this way is almost criminal.
Try Pathologic 2 and Outer Wilds. It's my top 3 grabbing games, which are totaly different from each other, but has something unique and special about them.
God this story makes me sad, I recently finished this game and it’s made such a huge impact on me, seriously one of the most unique and wonderful experiences I’ve ever had playing a game, I want to support the original creators and hope they get their company back.
I hope they create a new gaming company and are able to make something else. I assume ZA/UM has the IP for disco Elysium, which makes me sad too. The optimist in me thinks this whole ordeal will give them a lot of creative material for something in the future.
i consider it to be the best non combat RPG i have ever played, and i've mainly been playing RPGs for 30+ years. the whole text and lore was novel quality.
They can just continue on another project, find more investors rinse and repeat. It's unfortunate they lost the IP, but the IP isn't what people cared about in Disco Elysium
Even if they do, there is a lot of bad blood between those who were fired and those who remain with ZAUM, and really it would be extremely surprising to see a sequel that lives up to the original to any degree. Also Robert is now working with Netease, which is, even should he regain ZAUM, a MAJOR red flag (they are the people behind Diablo Immortal).
You forgot to mention Helen who also got cut off from ZA/UM. Otherwise, this reminds me of Vince Zampella and Jason West getting snaked out of Infinity Ward back in around 2010-ish. Except this ZA/UM issue is even more hilarious considering Disco Elysium's themes and content
Kompus's wife is Haavel's longtime girlfriend's sister. So it's a little crime family. Also in autumn he paid back the 4.8 million he stole from za/um, however he already got the shares with it, so it's not like that erases the crime, as far as I know we're still not allowed to use theft as an interest free loan.
@@Ixarus6713 Even if they do, YSK that Kurvitz is now working with fucking Netease, and there is a lot more detail in the 2.5 hour people make games video on the matter (tldr it looks very unlikely that the original team will just be able to come back together and make a sequel, sadly, too much pain and sadness resulted from how things went down during DE).
Why was Helen Hindpere cut out of the coverage of what happened (and it looks like maybe the photo in the video)? She was a huge part of Disco Elysium's success and also one of the key people fired alongside Kurvitz and Rostov.
This is why shareholders should be at the bottom. Not the top. People who only buy into projects are investors in an idea. They are not creators, therefore they shouldn't be involved in any part of a creative operation. Simply put. A shareholder is someone who believes in the idea to put financial backing into it. Don't like the idea? Take your money elsewhere. There should be no degree of control by swinging money around.
I think in some companies with more confifence in their direction, they sell different type of shares that give you no say in how the company is run but does give proportionally more dividends than the regular shares
Thank you for this. I knew there were some problems but had no idea what actually happened. Good to know I won't have to support ZA/UM until this is fixed. Or just help out the original 3 if they start their own thing.
The real issue here is that the current ZAUM holds the rights to the game and its world. The world that the creators built and played their TTRPG on for years is no longer their property. Disco Elysium has an overwhelming amount of personality and charm because its creators spent years pretty much living in that world while playing their TTRPG. They had a lot of time to fine-tune everything about the world and characters. So even if they somehow manage to start a new company and get funding for a new game, in the best-case scenario, they'd have to create a whole new world unrelated to Disco Elysium's lore and franchise. We know the writers are skilled and can create something inspiring and amazing. However, is it going to have the same feel and flair as using something they've played for years? Who knows. It might be a spark that creates something even greater than Disco Elysium and its world. It might also just not be that great. All we can really do right now is wait and see how this fraudulent mess unfolds.
Nevermind the irony of it all... The greatest tragedy (and one of my personal fears/loathes as an artist/writer) is that the creators, who have a genuine passion and built this up, the minds behind the entire thing are locked out of ownership and usage of their own creation. While it's noble to assume they can move on to another idea and bottle up lightning again in spite of this situation, it's gotta be one of the greatest hardships to have something you have contributed so much of your life towards, your creative baby, stripped entirely away from you.
Honestly I really hope that there isn’t a Disco Elysium 2 at this point, at least not one that’s made without the og team. If the second game is bad then it taints the first game too, and I’d rather just have the one then it be tainted by a half baked sequel
Unfortunately the OG team will never get back together (see the People Make Games documentary). Also, Kurvitz is now working with Netease, so... Yeah.. Nothing about any of this looks good.
Artist: Create something incredible. Soulless corporate money men: How can we squeeze every ounce of profit out of it? (And don't mind if we ruin everything about this in the process.)
Worse is that even if Kurvitz somehow gets back the company, he appears to now be the type of person who thinks he should be working with Netease of all the available companies. The future really doesnt look good here.
In theory it sounds good, and would be justice, but it wont lead to a true DE2, unfortunately. Aside from the fact that Kurvitz is now working with fucking Netease (which is pretty much the embodiment of everything you would think he would be against, being responsible for all the microtransaction heavy mobile games like Diablo Immortal), there is a lot of hurt and blame to go around between former and current ZAUM members, and I dont see them being able to team up again. See the 2.5 hour People Make Games report if you want a really in depth understanding of the situation.
@@charlot6590 Actually no... the video is about the issue remaining unresolved. Because if the situation didn't change and ZA/UM remains out of the hands of it's creators and founders at the end of it. Then it means it's quite legal. Unethical, corrupt and fraudulent, but legal.
Eh.... wtf? The new owners are like the corporate greed villains the game makes fun of. Can we just crowdfund the original owners to sponsor a new game instead? Does not have to be named Disco Elysium 2. It can be named Techno Arcadia and be set in a Berlin inspired world.
This is nuts I had no idea! Holy hell. I've been doing research on these guys and supporting them for awhile now, I can't believe this is even real. Listen I'm not an activist or anything, but Disco Elysium 2 would be the only game I've ever boycotted. More people need to know about this. How is it even legal? Are they going through years of court battles as we speak? Thanks for the video! ps. Best RPG ever made.
Yep, there was an initial lawsuit that was dropped about them being unfairly fired. (Which in my opinion definitely should've gone through) and then people assume there's an IP suit as well, although it's going to be difficult to fight as technically speaking ZA/AM owned the IP. Hopefully these fraudsters get trashed and the legendary original devs can get back to making the sequel.
@@Ixarus6713 Ya, I think there needs to be a call from the mountain about this crappy situation. The fans (and normies) need to know what went down. The original team needs to start a new company, and do it right this time. I know money is hard to precure, but you can't bring shisters onto the team, especially when those people can take your company from you. Things to do: 1. Boycott Disco Elysium 2. 2. Support initial team on next venture.
I hope to all the gods that will listen that the original creators win !!! but if they dont it will be a very sad day for the medium. we will have essentially lost one of the most ambitious and avant-garde video games to become popular to corporate and capital greed ... and i will mourn such a loss of creativity. Also very goood video im new but i love your content !!
it's so frustrating, i love this game and it's setting so much, when i finished my first playthrough i wanted more, i really hope the original developers win
Thank you for explaining this. I knew something was going on but I couldn't quite understand how it was happening. I don't know if things will be solved, but at least you are helping bring it to the public eye, and at least helping give the original creators the credit that it's owed to them. I choose to be hopeful that the IP will somehow return to the people it belongs to, and hopeful that we --the fans-- won't mindlessly throw money at some product just beacuse it has the Disco Elysium tag if we know this is still happening.
Dont hate the players, hate the game. People are, after all, conditioned into their behaviors by larger societal pressures and expectations. Capitaliism gonna capitalize
@@nolives Being greedy is objectively the best path to take in life, so I wouldn't say it's all about social conditioning. Securing the maximum amount of resources is rooted in our nature.
@@depressedcheems9961 "Securing the maximum amount of resources is rooted in our nature." Not true at all, which is why most people in the world aren't money grubbing sociopaths. "It's our nature" is just said by the very few who to possess such nature to pretend it's all normal.
@@biocapsule7311 my man doesn't understand basic biology and suggests subjective morals are the definitive answer. By "our nature", I'm referring to our "reptilian brain" and our body's need of resources. Our social ability is ironically the result of us evolving to maximize our resource gain. Dominate or submissive behaviors are just different paths to maximize resource gain to further increase reproduction chance.
Why is it that so many talented artists in the modern world are forced to sell out or bend over and get screwed. Disco Elysium is a masterpiece on so many levels, but it isn't the only victim of this. It's sickening.
It almost seems too on the nose for the disco elysium world to be ruined by corporate and capitalist greed, like a metaphor or mirror image of Revachol. If this whole episode was part of DE2, i wouldn’t be surprised.
Speaking of companies that does wrong choices.. Enlisted has a very greedy gameplay loop even if you buy the season pass or premium edition or whatever they call it. I understand that it's a free game and they need to fund the game somehow but the game is too grindy even if you put money into it.
Bro this is so fucking infuriating. I will NOT buy Disco Elysium 2, besides from the fact that it will probably be shit compared to the first one, because the whole core of the idea was just scammed out of the development. I hate what this greedy market does to small studios and independent, creative developers, who just want a chance to present their idea to the world. Its insane how all of this is just so easily possible for those disgusting scammers.
I almost bought Disco Elisium on the current steam summer sale. Time to pirate it to enjoy it. I will wait patiently for a new IP from the original team
I just finished the game, I'm so shocked by this story. I can't believe this theft went unnoticed by the police. Absolutely insane. And the game is a masterpiece!
Awful news to hear. Loved DE despite how grindy the loading was. I was really looking forward to what would be done with the next game, like what they would improve, what they would change or add, and more so what the story would be. Thanks for the info
@@XxKilleredxX It's done entirely within dialogue system, dicerolls and scripted events. There are items you can prepare to give you a better chance for a specific outcome, but there is no combat system. It's like any other social encounter really, just with more deadly consequences. It ain't deep. It ain't really strategic. And again, that is fine as the Devs nailed everything else.
Thanks for this. I was entirely unaware of any of this. Unless something big changes, I know to avoid the sequel...and keep an eye out for the original talent's future works, ZA/UM or not.
Big thanks to you for coverage of this topic. Disco have become one of my favorite gemes lately, so I kinda worring about this all situation. Its important to let people know... Спасибо.
Correction: not exactly cult classics but games that are comfortable, games that you can play anytime in any mood, chill games sorta speak like Payday 2 for me
@@kiarastaggs180 I don't know how to explain a type of the game that you play regardless of anything because you love it so much but they aren't necessarily cult classics
Cult classic is when there's only limited amount of the game that can convey the genre as it is. You can't compare this game with Payday 2 and Disco Elysium as in apple to apple.
I bought the game the day it was released but now I think I wont be buying the sequel unless the company sort this problem out it makes me so sad how corporate greed robbed disco elysium from its creators like that :(
Just to be clear, did they even make money off the game or did all the money they made get stolen and then used to buy the company from them before they were fired.
The new owner giving the money back reminds me of Pinky and the Brain. I can't find the clip on TH-cam. But the dialogue goes "Egad brain Brilliant! Oh, no. Wait, wouldn't that be horribly illegal?" "Yes Pinky. But after I rule the world, I will give the money back, and have Gerald Ford pardon me." Because I am no lawyer. But, I am pretty sure that giving the money back later is not a defense for fraud. But also, it is odd that in a game with an anti-capitalist message, where capitalism causes the main character to develop amnesia, you can play free-market fundamentalist cop, or a communist cop, and get different bonuses, and both are completely viable mechanically. I believe that this is ludo-narrative dissonance.
More like a rule than the exception; it seems that success attracts exploiters in one form or another. Often, the first step towards disaster can be attributed to the lacking judgement of someone who sells or somehow hands over control.
"as a guy who reviews games for a living, i try to focus on games that have something going for them, (like f2p microtransactions). games that are fun, engaging, (have microtranssctions), and that have players that keep returning to play them (and pay microstransactions) on a regular basis. games that you could call cult classics, (that are full of microtransactions). . "
A Steam review and this video stopped me of buying Disco Elysium on Steam. I was gonna buy it because I already played it (not the legal way) and I found it so great, so beautiful, so moving, that I saved some cash to buy it (I had to save some cash to buy it because it's not cheap for us where I live). When I saw that reviews were so positive (because of course they are) it was like "oh, I'll read some of the love people left for the creators". There I saw it. *BOOM* A NEGATIVE REVIEW. It simply stated "Best RPG ever made, It's a shame it was stolen from it's creators". So I came to youtube and I watched this video. I can't believe it. I loved the art, the writing, the music... everything! And now seeing this is such a gut punch. I hope the creators can get their game and/or their company back. And if they don't, I'll boycott DE2, of course. P.S.: I loved the video, but I'm not a fan of around 60% of the content, which means I won't subscribe, so I'm doing my duty as a youtube enthusiast, and I'm liking and commenting. Like civilized people do
Thank you for the video. I hope the creators of Disco Elysium are able to get a satisfactory conclusion with this ongoing situation. It's awful they're having to deal with this.
Based on what I heard about one of the original creators being obnoxious in the office, my mind is amused at the idea that he's mirrored the archetype of the main character in the game. Maybe he has to solve a case to redeem himself...
I honestly didn't know the full scope of this situation. I saw some recent news that many of the employees working at ZA/UM were unhappy especially after a mass layoff with little explanation. It seemed so confusing after playing the game and hearing a few words from the original creator, but now it all makes sense.
Disco Elysium was made by some lads as their first game project, it is easy to see that without there is no game or talent. It's a win for the lads I'd rather see talent like that go and work on new ips
Thanks so much for this, I'd been looking for information on this situation for months, but it's unfortunately scarce to come across. I assume Kurvitz and co can't speak publicly because of the court cases, but I'd really love to hear their side of the story. With all the love this game has received and the extreme relevance of its anti-capitalist subject matter to our greed-stricken world and the gaming industry in particular, I really think the gaming community should unify its voice in support of the original creators to strengthen their plight. Hearing from Kurvitz and the team could have a catalysing effect, rallying DE's hordes of fans to their side. I really think that in a decade or so this case will in hindsight be seen as a pivotal case in the capitalist disease that has infested our beloved industry. I just hope it will be a change for the better, symbolised by an emphatic win by the original creators. I would love to know how I could show my support to the team apart from simply writing a TH-cam a comment, and I'm sure many other fans would too.
There is some of that in the 2.5 hour People Make Games video, but unfortunately Robert was ultimately unwilling to in any way view the concerns expressed by those who remain with the company as anything other than forced corporate propaganda. True as it was that his lifes work was stolen (and that it is clear that the VAST majority of wrong was on the part of the money people (criminals?), he was also unwilling to take any accountability for his failures as a leader and a friend, and so I dont see it as likely that we will see a real DE2 in any real way.
@@thegoodrevbadandyarr4272 I agree with you that Robert could have played his hand better, but don't forget, he's an idealist and a philospher stuck in the very kind of mess his art criticizes. That kind of situation can mess you up, it's only human to drop the ball on the details every now and then when you're under that kind of pressure. To me, the relevance of him playing the situation perfectly or not is vastly insignificant compared to his moral position, and he seems hugely in the right from an outside perspective. David vs. Goliath, artist vs. the capitalist juggernaut. One can only root voor Robert that he finds and keeps the strength to keep fighting, whether he does so perfectly or not
Just finished Disco Elysium... one of my favorite games of all time... easily top 5 for me out of hundreds of games. Searched "Disco Elysium 2" on TH-cam hoping that there was some news on development and stumbled across this. Such a shame. Without the original team's vision, the sequel won't stand a chance to come close to the level of the original. Really quite ironic that one of the themes of the game: greed.... is also the sequel's downfall.. Regardless, I won't support Disco Elysium 2 -- if/when it comes out. I really hope the original development team branches off and creates something new. Fuck Tonis Haavel.
Thank you for this, but in my opinion, the matters you discuss are a lot more complicated. I know, a short video can not cover all of that and I am all for exposing shady business practices. But there were more people involved in the making of Disco Elysium and these people suffer for simplifying this matter. There is an extensive investigation on this topic by another channel (not gonna name it under your video) that does a deep dive into the complicated connections.
That's sad but where big money there always greed and company's closure or "changes" in the staff, I guess we wouldn't hear from Disco Elysium ever again or unfortunately a horrible sequel
Entire situation seems very reminiscent of the the way Mariel Cartwright stole skullgirls from original creator, Mark Zaimont. Never knew gaming company power upheavals were such a common thing.
I got it on steam sale so it was only 4 bucks. Not the best outcome, but I couldn’t figure out how to pirate it, and I really did want it. I’ll be sure to tell others to pirate it, though. Screw these thieves. Taking what isn’t theirs without the consent of the individuals who created such art. Evil evil evil.
****, I accidentally bought it on sale and only now just found out about this. I'm going to see how easy it is to pirate the last version of the game before the incident, and see about refunding it.
Honestly a little weirdly sexist that you didn't include any mention of Helen Hindpere, one of the key writers. She received more coverage from articles that covered the story for her role at ZA/UM than Kaur Kender did, but you explicitly skipped over her. Is giving credit to a massive part of the original team too difficult because she's a woman? There's really no excuse.
A primary piece of the game's engine and listed in the credits, Pixel Crusher's Dialogue system is 40 bucks in the Unity asset store. Why don't they just say 'screw the collective' and remake the engine? I'd rather take a spiritual sequel at this point. I'd also love to see what they would do with Pixel Crusher's Love/Hate system, if anything.
good if i had seen the dudes before who were involded in making this game i would not even play it if they got money, they all look weird and not trustworthy
I personally didnt think the game was that good. The artstyle gave me a headache. But much like iron mace with darker and darker, im not a fan of the corporate i.p. laws and believe the devs are the true owners since theyre the true creators.
In retrospect the studio being taken over by a large company and its creator being committed to an insane asylum really is the most thematically appropriate way for the IP to end.
Wait, who was sent to an insane asylum?
Dark humor is like food in Liberia. Not everyone gets it.
Most savage 🤯
too bad that the creative property is now sinking with these parasitic scum. i wanted to know about edgar claire and la puta madre maybe we could have had a game set in coal city or jamrock or boogie street and expanded the lore of the franchise. but just like socialism good things like this arent allowed to flourish and developed by greedy corpo leeches
that is somehow very disco elysium
ZA/UM died the most Disco Elysium death possible, swallowed by capital after critiquing it.
If this game was just a critique of capitalism, it would be so boring. Thankfully it's a lot deeper.
ULTRA LIBERALISM ROUTE.
@@loubloom1941 At least someone gets it. The fact that corruption destroyed the future of the game is far more poignant.
@garrick3727 it's more poignant because the overarching theme through everything is Harry being an addict that may or may not ever reach any clarity about it. The game shits on every political ideology. The one constant is the corruption and oblivion of being in the throes of addiction
@@poopsmith6853 Right. The video simplifies what DE is about so much that I have to wonder if the content creator actually played it rather than just read about it. A much better point could have been made by someone who understood the game.
yeah, this is totally gonna sink the franchise. the new owners are literally the embodiment of one of the things the game warned about: Corporate greed.
No there the embodiment of corporate culture.
@@damintten "thats not water, its melted ice"
Ironic that socialists who have no problem with the state stealing and redistributing property and wealth are angry about having something stolen from them. This isn't a story about corporate greed, but instead simple theft.
Lmao you think gamers care. The group that has the loudest voice about things like this are the minority. Same with people screaming to stop preordering. A majority of people just don’t give a shit
Not just this game, Cyberpunk as well. Guess which other faction decided to sue CDPR after its bad release.
The very shareholders that demanded them to rush it.
The worst part is, if you brought the idea for disco Elysium to the same people who stole the IP, they would laugh you out of the room. They are so afraid to take risks artistically that all they can do is steal ideas that have gained traction
you know, i want to play this game from bottom of my brain, like you would learn for school or others in your life, add it to your routine but the bugs keeps nodding their head. fuck this game and creator
@@Alexandru9883I've played the game multiple times. What bugs? I've only had the most minor of bugs.
You know it's crazy how if ZA/UM had just let the production team actually do their jobs, the Golden Goose would've laid ANOTHER EGG, but instead they butchered the Golden Goose for its meat...
Long term investments are good for everybody. Unfortunately, modern capitalists are not ideologically pure, not economically intelligent, but because the economy is so inaccessible to the lower class, they can’t really get any competition either. So we get short-cited, short-term greed that hurts everybody in the long run.
If the system forced improvement instead of getting everything now now now, (like it was always intended to do,) the system would function for everybody’s interest. It’s all about how accessible the market is to everybody. Giving the little guy a chance to be big is key to positive competition, and better circulation of value for everybody.
Crazy stuff, man
That's clearly very bad management and there is nothing we can do about it. Isn't it odd that everytime someone has a good idea that sells well, another person much richer and powerful take the decision to "capitalise on that idea" and fumble? Every. Fucking. Time. (Oh, players like your game but we need a battle pass and a premium curency, make the game less fair so they won't have any choice than grinding or spending money.)
Good write up but its weird how you completely neglected to mention Helen Hindpere who was also a key writer who was also ousted in the hostile takeover. She wrote a large chunk of the games text alongside Kurvitz and her contributions at least warrant some sort of mention. It's wild to me that multiple sources you cite from and show ON SCREEN mention her yet you couldn't even give the barest of shout outs.
Yes, a massive and sadly unsurprising oversight...
@@LarryElectronica why is it unsurprising?
Homie should pin this comment to make up for it
her name is shown in the original tweet. A bit strange there is no further mention of her in the video
I noticed this oversight too. Maybe she isn't a minority shareholder so doesn't fit the legal narrative, but its definitely worth mentioning as she's the Lead Writer so stacks up that creative core leaving the company. The sequel is going to be creatively bereft.
It's so sad - Disco Elysium grabbed me in a way no other game had in about 20 years, it was a bone fide masterpiece, and now it's been ruined by the very corporate greed it railed against. This world has so much potential, to see it squandered in this way is almost criminal.
Try Pathologic 2 and Outer Wilds. It's my top 3 grabbing games, which are totaly different from each other, but has something unique and special about them.
What makes it "almost" criminal? Why not "outright" criminal?
God this story makes me sad, I recently finished this game and it’s made such a huge impact on me, seriously one of the most unique and wonderful experiences I’ve ever had playing a game, I want to support the original creators and hope they get their company back.
You'll look back and think "boy how did such a try hard commie game like that ever make an impact on me; what was wrong with me?"
I hope they create a new gaming company and are able to make something else. I assume ZA/UM has the IP for disco Elysium, which makes me sad too.
The optimist in me thinks this whole ordeal will give them a lot of creative material for something in the future.
i consider it to be the best non combat RPG i have ever played, and i've mainly been playing RPGs for 30+ years. the whole text and lore was novel quality.
They can just continue on another project, find more investors rinse and repeat. It's unfortunate they lost the IP, but the IP isn't what people cared about in Disco Elysium
Even if they do, there is a lot of bad blood between those who were fired and those who remain with ZAUM, and really it would be extremely surprising to see a sequel that lives up to the original to any degree. Also Robert is now working with Netease, which is, even should he regain ZAUM, a MAJOR red flag (they are the people behind Diablo Immortal).
You forgot to mention Helen who also got cut off from ZA/UM.
Otherwise, this reminds me of Vince Zampella and Jason West getting snaked out of Infinity Ward back in around 2010-ish. Except this ZA/UM issue is even more hilarious considering Disco Elysium's themes and content
Kompus's wife is Haavel's longtime girlfriend's sister. So it's a little crime family. Also in autumn he paid back the 4.8 million he stole from za/um, however he already got the shares with it, so it's not like that erases the crime, as far as I know we're still not allowed to use theft as an interest free loan.
Not all loans need to have interest/usury on them.
Not supporting theft in any way shape or form, just saying.
@@shafaet1194not all interest is usury
just saying, as you probably guessed.
Wow i had no idea this was going on... CRAZY. and crazy good video, love the edits, so cool to see you on camera Robo!
thanks jack! appreciate the comment 😃
crazy good?? he tried to sold you mobile game!
Was looking forward to being in disco elysium 2 now im just depressed
Nooo Harry! We'll get it back, I'm sure of it! Go hang out with Kim whilst we wait, then we can give these fraudsters their sunset parabellum...
@@Ixarus6713 Even if they do, YSK that Kurvitz is now working with fucking Netease, and there is a lot more detail in the 2.5 hour people make games video on the matter (tldr it looks very unlikely that the original team will just be able to come back together and make a sequel, sadly, too much pain and sadness resulted from how things went down during DE).
ur a welcome to the nhk fan being depressed is a given
Why was Helen Hindpere cut out of the coverage of what happened (and it looks like maybe the photo in the video)? She was a huge part of Disco Elysium's success and also one of the key people fired alongside Kurvitz and Rostov.
This is why shareholders should be at the bottom. Not the top. People who only buy into projects are investors in an idea. They are not creators, therefore they shouldn't be involved in any part of a creative operation. Simply put. A shareholder is someone who believes in the idea to put financial backing into it. Don't like the idea? Take your money elsewhere. There should be no degree of control by swinging money around.
They believe in the idea... making a bunch of money.
It's why stipulations on how investors can contribute are so vital. No matter where you look there's a mountain of paperwork and lawyers to hike them.
I think in some companies with more confifence in their direction, they sell different type of shares that give you no say in how the company is run but does give proportionally more dividends than the regular shares
Thank you for this.
I knew there were some problems but had no idea what actually happened.
Good to know I won't have to support ZA/UM until this is fixed.
Or just help out the original 3 if they start their own thing.
The real issue here is that the current ZAUM holds the rights to the game and its world. The world that the creators built and played their TTRPG on for years is no longer their property.
Disco Elysium has an overwhelming amount of personality and charm because its creators spent years pretty much living in that world while playing their TTRPG. They had a lot of time to fine-tune everything about the world and characters.
So even if they somehow manage to start a new company and get funding for a new game, in the best-case scenario, they'd have to create a whole new world unrelated to Disco Elysium's lore and franchise.
We know the writers are skilled and can create something inspiring and amazing. However, is it going to have the same feel and flair as using something they've played for years? Who knows. It might be a spark that creates something even greater than Disco Elysium and its world. It might also just not be that great.
All we can really do right now is wait and see how this fraudulent mess unfolds.
Definitely this is a game that i would now play pirated without any guilt.
I'm pretty sure they recommend it
@@skeletonbuyingpealts7134 I sure as hell would if I were them. Hopefully they can get the company (or at least the IP) back.
Good point.
i was about to buy it . can anyone recommend a site to download it at ?
@@funkyuns1655 r/piracy
why do people reporting on this never mention Helen Hindpere and her massive contributions to the game?
sexism
Nevermind the irony of it all... The greatest tragedy (and one of my personal fears/loathes as an artist/writer) is that the creators, who have a genuine passion and built this up, the minds behind the entire thing are locked out of ownership and usage of their own creation. While it's noble to assume they can move on to another idea and bottle up lightning again in spite of this situation, it's gotta be one of the greatest hardships to have something you have contributed so much of your life towards, your creative baby, stripped entirely away from you.
Or an actual baby.
@@TheTomsdrc 😹trve
is there a reason u didn't mention Helen Hindpere despite having ostensibly read that she , in fact, exists and matters greatly ?
Honestly I really hope that there isn’t a Disco Elysium 2 at this point, at least not one that’s made without the og team. If the second game is bad then it taints the first game too, and I’d rather just have the one then it be tainted by a half baked sequel
Unfortunately the OG team will never get back together (see the People Make Games documentary). Also, Kurvitz is now working with Netease, so... Yeah.. Nothing about any of this looks good.
Let them sink their money into the sequel, and then let them sink. Anyone working for crooks like that shouldn't be surprised. People know now.
Artist: Create something incredible.
Soulless corporate money men: How can we squeeze every ounce of profit out of it?
(And don't mind if we ruin everything about this in the process.)
Worse is that even if Kurvitz somehow gets back the company, he appears to now be the type of person who thinks he should be working with Netease of all the available companies. The future really doesnt look good here.
It's painful to hear of this. Give them back their company
In theory it sounds good, and would be justice, but it wont lead to a true DE2, unfortunately. Aside from the fact that Kurvitz is now working with fucking Netease (which is pretty much the embodiment of everything you would think he would be against, being responsible for all the microtransaction heavy mobile games like Diablo Immortal), there is a lot of hurt and blame to go around between former and current ZAUM members, and I dont see them being able to team up again. See the 2.5 hour People Make Games report if you want a really in depth understanding of the situation.
How is this even legal? It doesn't just call into question ZA/UM, it ironically call into question Estonia's ability to combat corruption and fraud.
this video is about how none of it is legal
@@charlot6590 Actually no... the video is about the issue remaining unresolved. Because if the situation didn't change and ZA/UM remains out of the hands of it's creators and founders at the end of it. Then it means it's quite legal. Unethical, corrupt and fraudulent, but legal.
Actually, I believe the case is mostly out of Estonia now, as company had moved to UK
Hell yeah, give this issue visability!
And do what exactly?
@@nolives It was on my buy list but now it isn't, so they're out one purchase at the very least.
@@TheFlypaste I'd recommend you definitely pirate it if you can! Incredible game and not worth missing out on because of some asshole fraudsters.
Whoever invented the Brazen Bull must have felt the same way about somebody as I feel about Kompus and Haaval.
The person who invented it was also the first person it was “tested” on.
The company you mentioned with a stake in Zaum was mispronounced 'Yessirnor', it looks like it's meant to be 'Yes Sir, No Sir LTD'
What is the deal with TH-camrs who simply can't read?
"Deep strategic combat" imagine filming such piece without having actually playing the game
Eh.... wtf? The new owners are like the corporate greed villains the game makes fun of.
Can we just crowdfund the original owners to sponsor a new game instead? Does not have to be named Disco Elysium 2. It can be named Techno Arcadia and be set in a Berlin inspired world.
This is nuts I had no idea! Holy hell. I've been doing research on these guys and supporting them for awhile now, I can't believe this is even real. Listen I'm not an activist or anything, but Disco Elysium 2 would be the only game I've ever boycotted. More people need to know about this. How is it even legal? Are they going through years of court battles as we speak?
Thanks for the video!
ps. Best RPG ever made.
Yep, there was an initial lawsuit that was dropped about them being unfairly fired. (Which in my opinion definitely should've gone through) and then people assume there's an IP suit as well, although it's going to be difficult to fight as technically speaking ZA/AM owned the IP.
Hopefully these fraudsters get trashed and the legendary original devs can get back to making the sequel.
@@Ixarus6713 Ya, I think there needs to be a call from the mountain about this crappy situation. The fans (and normies) need to know what went down. The original team needs to start a new company, and do it right this time. I know money is hard to precure, but you can't bring shisters onto the team, especially when those people can take your company from you.
Things to do:
1. Boycott Disco Elysium 2.
2. Support initial team on next venture.
you know, pirating is a thing... @@Glowbox3D
i wish kurvitz's book would get translated into english
It's been translated. Google fu it.
I hope to all the gods that will listen that the original creators win !!! but if they dont it will be a very sad day for the medium. we will have essentially lost one of the most ambitious and avant-garde video games to become popular to corporate and capital greed ... and i will mourn such a loss of creativity.
Also very goood video im new but i love your content !!
The original creators are antisemitic, so fuck them.
it's so frustrating, i love this game and it's setting so much, when i finished my first playthrough i wanted more, i really hope the original developers win
Thank you for explaining this. I knew something was going on but I couldn't quite understand how it was happening.
I don't know if things will be solved, but at least you are helping bring it to the public eye, and at least helping give the original creators the credit that it's owed to them.
I choose to be hopeful that the IP will somehow return to the people it belongs to, and hopeful that we --the fans-- won't mindlessly throw money at some product just beacuse it has the Disco Elysium tag if we know this is still happening.
Jesus, this is so sickening. I hate people sometimes...
Dont hate the players, hate the game. People are, after all, conditioned into their behaviors by larger societal pressures and expectations. Capitaliism gonna capitalize
@@nolives Being greedy is objectively the best path to take in life, so I wouldn't say it's all about social conditioning. Securing the maximum amount of resources is rooted in our nature.
@@nolives people are still responsible for doing the despicable things - it's not an excuse for shitty behaviour.
@@depressedcheems9961 "Securing the maximum amount of resources is rooted in our nature." Not true at all, which is why most people in the world aren't money grubbing sociopaths. "It's our nature" is just said by the very few who to possess such nature to pretend it's all normal.
@@biocapsule7311 my man doesn't understand basic biology and suggests subjective morals are the definitive answer.
By "our nature", I'm referring to our "reptilian brain" and our body's need of resources. Our social ability is ironically the result of us evolving to maximize our resource gain. Dominate or submissive behaviors are just different paths to maximize resource gain to further increase reproduction chance.
Yea was pure greed. Was bad enough to take controlling interest, but then he had to be sure and F' over the designer and artists.
Why is it that so many talented artists in the modern world are forced to sell out or bend over and get screwed. Disco Elysium is a masterpiece on so many levels, but it isn't the only victim of this. It's sickening.
Goddamn Ultraliberals.
Where's an Evrart Claire when we need one?
It almost seems too on the nose for the disco elysium world to be ruined by corporate and capitalist greed, like a metaphor or mirror image of Revachol. If this whole episode was part of DE2, i wouldn’t be surprised.
A quick scan of the comments is giving me the the vibes from the in-game quest of the abandoned company
Speaking of companies that does wrong choices..
Enlisted has a very greedy gameplay loop even if you buy the season pass or premium edition or whatever they call it.
I understand that it's a free game and they need to fund the game somehow but the game is too grindy even if you put money into it.
A good rule is if a youtuber is getting paid to promote a game then it usually sucks.
Bro this is so fucking infuriating. I will NOT buy Disco Elysium 2, besides from the fact that it will probably be shit compared to the first one, because the whole core of the idea was just scammed out of the development.
I hate what this greedy market does to small studios and independent, creative developers, who just want a chance to present their idea to the world. Its insane how all of this is just so easily possible for those disgusting scammers.
I almost bought Disco Elisium on the current steam summer sale. Time to pirate it to enjoy it.
I will wait patiently for a new IP from the original team
How/where are you going to pirate it? I want to but I have no experience pirating games and I don’t want to give my computer malware
I just finished the game, I'm so shocked by this story. I can't believe this theft went unnoticed by the police. Absolutely insane. And the game is a masterpiece!
Awful news to hear. Loved DE despite how grindy the loading was. I was really looking forward to what would be done with the next game, like what they would improve, what they would change or add, and more so what the story would be. Thanks for the info
5:34 Except for the "deep strategic combat" part.
And I don't mind it.
What about the tribunal?
@@XxKilleredxX It's done entirely within dialogue system, dicerolls and scripted events. There are items you can prepare to give you a better chance for a specific outcome, but there is no combat system. It's like any other social encounter really, just with more deadly consequences.
It ain't deep. It ain't really strategic. And again, that is fine as the Devs nailed everything else.
The light-bending man would be proud of these “investments”. 🤨
"Strategic Combat"
No, I don't believe that made it into the game. For the best I think.
pirating elysium is morally correct
this man's thumbnails are a steam DLC
Thanks for this. I was entirely unaware of any of this. Unless something big changes, I know to avoid the sequel...and keep an eye out for the original talent's future works, ZA/UM or not.
Speaking of greed screwing over franchises, would you make a video about Alice: Asylum?
hello tMod moderator :)
In the fallout modding community; they were talking about this just this morning. Funny coincidence!
Great video! It's insane that this happened.
One small thing: "RPG game" means "role-playing game game." It's just RPG.
Big thanks to you for coverage of this topic. Disco have become one of my favorite gemes lately, so I kinda worring about this all situation. Its important to let people know... Спасибо.
The game was amazing, this is so sad that it happened. So much potential now lost
In conclusion: There will no DE2 & you gotta do your best to preserve DE before it will get pulled from store because of the troubled company.
Correction: not exactly cult classics but games that are comfortable, games that you can play anytime in any mood, chill games sorta speak like Payday 2 for me
The kinds of definitions that make my head spin because they kinda don’t make any sense(?)
@@kiarastaggs180 I don't know how to explain a type of the game that you play regardless of anything because you love it so much but they aren't necessarily cult classics
Pathologic 2
@@writerlairchannel2636 Fast Food games
Cult classic is when there's only limited amount of the game that can convey the genre as it is. You can't compare this game with Payday 2 and Disco Elysium as in apple to apple.
Someone get this guy a microphone mount!
I bought the game the day it was released but now I think I wont be buying the sequel unless the company sort this problem out it makes me so sad how corporate greed robbed disco elysium from its creators like that :(
This is really depressing. I wish I'd known this before buying it so I wouldn't have given them my money. I hope the original creators are doing ok.
That's not really a reason not to play a game. You can also buy CDKeys for games which don't give any money to developers.
I was about to buy the game since it has a huge sale but if the game was stolen from the actual devs I might just pirate the game entirely
Just to be clear, did they even make money off the game or did all the money they made get stolen and then used to buy the company from them before they were fired.
the whole video was thinking that the mic looks like a cotton candy and ended up being distracted expecting him to take a bite
The new owner giving the money back reminds me of Pinky and the Brain. I can't find the clip on TH-cam. But the dialogue goes "Egad brain Brilliant! Oh, no. Wait, wouldn't that be horribly illegal?" "Yes Pinky. But after I rule the world, I will give the money back, and have Gerald Ford pardon me." Because I am no lawyer. But, I am pretty sure that giving the money back later is not a defense for fraud.
But also, it is odd that in a game with an anti-capitalist message, where capitalism causes the main character to develop amnesia, you can play free-market fundamentalist cop, or a communist cop, and get different bonuses, and both are completely viable mechanically. I believe that this is ludo-narrative dissonance.
More like a rule than the exception; it seems that success attracts exploiters in one form or another. Often, the first step towards disaster can be attributed to the lacking judgement of someone who sells or somehow hands over control.
3:30
"as a guy who reviews games for a living, i try to focus on games that have something going for them, (like f2p microtransactions). games that are fun, engaging, (have microtranssctions), and that have players that keep returning to play them (and pay microstransactions) on a regular basis. games that you could call cult classics, (that are full of microtransactions). . "
A Steam review and this video stopped me of buying Disco Elysium on Steam. I was gonna buy it because I already played it (not the legal way) and I found it so great, so beautiful, so moving, that I saved some cash to buy it (I had to save some cash to buy it because it's not cheap for us where I live).
When I saw that reviews were so positive (because of course they are) it was like "oh, I'll read some of the love people left for the creators". There I saw it. *BOOM* A NEGATIVE REVIEW. It simply stated "Best RPG ever made, It's a shame it was stolen from it's creators". So I came to youtube and I watched this video. I can't believe it. I loved the art, the writing, the music... everything! And now seeing this is such a gut punch. I hope the creators can get their game and/or their company back.
And if they don't, I'll boycott DE2, of course.
P.S.: I loved the video, but I'm not a fan of around 60% of the content, which means I won't subscribe, so I'm doing my duty as a youtube enthusiast, and I'm liking and commenting. Like civilized people do
I hope they win it back somehow this game helped me when i was in a dark place in life it got my mind right
No wonder collage mode feels so unrelated to the main game...
Thank you for the video. I hope the creators of Disco Elysium are able to get a satisfactory conclusion with this ongoing situation. It's awful they're having to deal with this.
Based on what I heard about one of the original creators being obnoxious in the office, my mind is amused at the idea that he's mirrored the archetype of the main character in the game. Maybe he has to solve a case to redeem himself...
I honestly didn't know the full scope of this situation. I saw some recent news that many of the employees working at ZA/UM were unhappy especially after a mass layoff with little explanation. It seemed so confusing after playing the game and hearing a few words from the original creator, but now it all makes sense.
ME -
Capitalism.. devour the masterpiece,leave behind the creator for the greedy of currency.. it is called MONEY
Anyway. Capitalism. I hope this story ends with the intervention of authorities, and jail time for the scammers.
Disco Elysium was made by some lads as their first game project, it is easy to see that without there is no game or talent. It's a win for the lads I'd rather see talent like that go and work on new ips
Thanks so much for this, I'd been looking for information on this situation for months, but it's unfortunately scarce to come across. I assume Kurvitz and co can't speak publicly because of the court cases, but I'd really love to hear their side of the story. With all the love this game has received and the extreme relevance of its anti-capitalist subject matter to our greed-stricken world and the gaming industry in particular, I really think the gaming community should unify its voice in support of the original creators to strengthen their plight. Hearing from Kurvitz and the team could have a catalysing effect, rallying DE's hordes of fans to their side.
I really think that in a decade or so this case will in hindsight be seen as a pivotal case in the capitalist disease that has infested our beloved industry. I just hope it will be a change for the better, symbolised by an emphatic win by the original creators. I would love to know how I could show my support to the team apart from simply writing a TH-cam a comment, and I'm sure many other fans would too.
There is some of that in the 2.5 hour People Make Games video, but unfortunately Robert was ultimately unwilling to in any way view the concerns expressed by those who remain with the company as anything other than forced corporate propaganda. True as it was that his lifes work was stolen (and that it is clear that the VAST majority of wrong was on the part of the money people (criminals?), he was also unwilling to take any accountability for his failures as a leader and a friend, and so I dont see it as likely that we will see a real DE2 in any real way.
@@thegoodrevbadandyarr4272 I agree with you that Robert could have played his hand better, but don't forget, he's an idealist and a philospher stuck in the very kind of mess his art criticizes. That kind of situation can mess you up, it's only human to drop the ball on the details every now and then when you're under that kind of pressure. To me, the relevance of him playing the situation perfectly or not is vastly insignificant compared to his moral position, and he seems hugely in the right from an outside perspective. David vs. Goliath, artist vs. the capitalist juggernaut. One can only root voor Robert that he finds and keeps the strength to keep fighting, whether he does so perfectly or not
Just finished Disco Elysium... one of my favorite games of all time... easily top 5 for me out of hundreds of games.
Searched "Disco Elysium 2" on TH-cam hoping that there was some news on development and stumbled across this. Such a shame. Without the original team's vision, the sequel won't stand a chance to come close to the level of the original.
Really quite ironic that one of the themes of the game: greed.... is also the sequel's downfall..
Regardless, I won't support Disco Elysium 2 -- if/when it comes out. I really hope the original development team branches off and creates something new.
Fuck Tonis Haavel.
Thank you for this, but in my opinion, the matters you discuss are a lot more complicated. I know, a short video can not cover all of that and I am all for exposing shady business practices. But there were more people involved in the making of Disco Elysium and these people suffer for simplifying this matter. There is an extensive investigation on this topic by another channel (not gonna name it under your video) that does a deep dive into the complicated connections.
That's sad but where big money there always greed and company's closure or "changes" in the staff, I guess we wouldn't hear from Disco Elysium ever again or unfortunately a horrible sequel
Hopefully they make a sequel that is anti-Communist.
@@thedoctor3996 what.
@@thedoctor3996 Same, every penny they dump into that would probably just be wasted lol
Entire situation seems very reminiscent of the the way Mariel Cartwright stole skullgirls from original creator, Mark Zaimont. Never knew gaming company power upheavals were such a common thing.
You wouldn't steal a company
I got it on steam sale so it was only 4 bucks. Not the best outcome, but I couldn’t figure out how to pirate it, and I really did want it. I’ll be sure to tell others to pirate it, though. Screw these thieves. Taking what isn’t theirs without the consent of the individuals who created such art. Evil evil evil.
Capitalism has to take off its mask of humanity to destroy the company we love 😢
This is crazy, I've played disco elysium and had no idea this was going on with the devs
😅back after ZAUM cancelled their new game and fired half the staff
Atleast the irony of the situation is funny.
The bourgeois ảe not human.
How do people become so slimy. Money makes people do some evil shit.
****, I accidentally bought it on sale and only now just found out about this. I'm going to see how easy it is to pirate the last version of the game before the incident, and see about refunding it.
Honestly a little weirdly sexist that you didn't include any mention of Helen Hindpere, one of the key writers. She received more coverage from articles that covered the story for her role at ZA/UM than Kaur Kender did, but you explicitly skipped over her. Is giving credit to a massive part of the original team too difficult because she's a woman? There's really no excuse.
A primary piece of the game's engine and listed in the credits, Pixel Crusher's Dialogue system is 40 bucks in the Unity asset store. Why don't they just say 'screw the collective' and remake the engine? I'd rather take a spiritual sequel at this point.
I'd also love to see what they would do with Pixel Crusher's Love/Hate system, if anything.
good if i had seen the dudes before who were involded in making this game i would not even play it if they got money, they all look weird and not trustworthy
I get what everybody's saying, the microphone hold is giving big running on empty food reviews vibes
Major shame. I wanted to play it, but i don't wanna pirate it and i will never give my money to these scumbags.
Still had this on my wishlist because I want to play it, but now i don't want to support the fraudulent owners of the company.
Can you make a video about the lawsuits?, the information I read on the internet isn't clear at all :(
Also, I hope more press would give this issue attention how come that a clear fraud is robbing the gaming community of such an incredible franchise...
Don't you just love modern gaming.
Disco is dead, baby.
I personally didnt think the game was that good. The artstyle gave me a headache. But much like iron mace with darker and darker, im not a fan of the corporate i.p. laws and believe the devs are the true owners since theyre the true creators.