If you read Grant manga, you would see in the story where alien invasion to ours planet and what do they treat humans? Local Delicacy. In the manga, after the destruction of the cities, the alien would pick up people and wash them and gut those like pigs in the slaughter house, then sold them in their Mall in the mothership as food. Then they would gather a big portion and then put those humans into a cage like animals so they can breed like we do with pigs. Remember, to those who think they are superior, the lesser beings are nothing but animals, we have so many cases like that throughout history.
@Anonymous User But those lower life-form don't travel on spaceship or have theirs own civilians. I guess it's how you define civilization level that is acceptable to perform experiment or not. Federation is pretty low, back to the Stone Age or Tribe as shown in the movie "Into the Darkness".
@@Mopsie I admit. This is true. Animal testing needs to stop now. Also, I know that there are very successful meat growing technologies that are in play.
This is also the episode where Kate Mulgrew quit smoking, so her aggressiveness and irritability was partly due to nicotine withdrawals. She was brilliant, as she used the way she was feeling to enhance her performance.
yeah, the whole argument is great and all, but since they specifically chose to experiment on a foreign starship and not their own citizens they pretty much know what they are doing isnt ethical
These are definitely not the first shadowy, super-evolved aliens who've mercilessly used a Starfleet crew as their own personal lab rats, but this species is hands down the scariest of them all! Those other mengelian species were typically quite inhuman in appearance and behavior. But these guys look and comport themselves almost like Federation scientists. They're even sporting Dr. Crusher-style lab coats. If you were lying on your bio-bed in Sick Bay, and one of them walked over to you with a smile on their face, you'd think they were your friend. Their calm, gentle-voiced, but sociopathic "bedside manners", along with their unnervingly human-like appearance made them quite spine chilling to me. It's a shame they never reappeared in the Star Trek universe. As a Delta-quadrant species, they were a thousand times more interesting than the Kazon ever were.
There was nothing kind about them. They were openly hostile and arrogant. They just did it in a more civilized way rather than the typical uncloth antongonist/villain type way. They came off like "Friends" fans. Arrogant and smug. The only thing they had that I agree with you on is human and plausible motives.
These types seemed to be modeled after what I call the WGN type of bigots. And I'm starting to think this show bashed The WB. Lol and something about this just lets me know that Warner Bros. agrees with me as do countless others lol that UPN had more in common with Warner Bros.. A WGN bigot is basically my slang term for one of those (who like the uncloth types are Allied, "Friends"-watching "Seinfeld"-hating) neutral American accented bigots like those from Chicago who instead of being the old school uncloth bigots tend to be the type that when questioned about their cruel actions or racism, say, "Decline to comment" to show they really believe that but that they're too civilized to openly boast about it cause they believe in being orderly lol.
Since this is a typical black show, they made it seem that they deny it. If this were "TNG" or "The Sentinel" or the "Lethal Weapon" movies, the antagonists/villains would not deny it lol. As white people wouldn't do, being part Hispanic.
Loved this episode. The actress that played as the "scientist" was fantastic at playing her in a kind of eery cold but "nice" emotion that played to her character's ego and self righteousness.
And the way it came to be, Kate Mulgrew quits tobacco and probably goes to the studio that week angry, cranky, and pissed off at everything maybe a bit embarrassed, but the writers go “Caterina Cara Mia” (I am trying to make it sound like the DaVinci holo program) and craft out a story around angry pissed off, tired Janeway getting driven mad by the experiments
Voyager is as good as TNG and those two are the best. With all due respect to TOS for the path breaking show, of course. I dislike DS9 because although it's gritty and "real" it's not what Star Trek is. Trek is about exploration, friendships, STEM mysteries and space utopias, not the usual human conflicts played out in space. Enterprise is OK, it made a mess of handling T'Pol by objectifying her. TNG and Ent had too much rapey stuff to my liking. Voyager gives respect to women like all others do to men. Voyager is the most progressive of all of them, most egalitarian.
Anyone hear a slight tremble in her voice? Poor Janeway was on the verge of breaking down. Imagine what would have happened if it went on for another day or two?
This was such a great episode. The flaw in the scientific method is the appeal to greed. The lure of information about objective reality can often be tempting and that makes some scientists willing to ignore suffering to obtain that information in their experiments.
The scientific method prioritizes getting repeatable results, not a lack of suffering. Greed is a moral failing. But greed is just a fact of life for a race like the Farengi. Morality and ethical behavior are culturally determined. This isn't a conflict where one side is right and the other is wrong. It's a conflict where neither side can yield anything to the other. Their behaviors are dictated by their cultures because their cultures have reinforced specific values in their belief systems. They can't compromise if they can't change. And they can't change the things that define them.
Me if i was janeway: Computer cut all life support from the cell an erect a level 9 barrier Her: what you doin Me: oh a experiment see how much you can live with out life support
Her reaction was the same as Picard's in the episode, 'Where Silence Has Lease' or to Riker's in, 'The Best of Both Worlds 2.' It's a courageous and commendable reaction to an impossible situation of torment, slavery and psychopathy. If you've ever been tortured and are a truly brave individual, you would probably do the same thing.
That's exactly what we do with our test animals. Only that they can't defend themselves, not even call for help. When you realize this situation, it's just horrible for our test animals.
Even with test animals, it's not quite the same. There are ethics review boards that have to approve everything. You would never get approved to cut off the legs of animals only to try and reattach them elsewhere while they're alive, as an example. For the most part, the animals are quickly and humanely put down once the research is conducted, or their immediate use has expired. There are differences between what we do, and what the aliens do; significant ones at that when dealing a sapient person.
btw, in the starfleet time period, animal testing, would be pretty much obsolete, not even from a morality perspective, just that we'd be able to simulate animals using holodeck-esque technology, animal farming will likewise be obsolete due to replicators being able to create meat
I almost completely agree with you, but from what I've seen, starfleet still does at a minimum tests to micro-organisms such as diseases or even larger organisms like plants that are replicated, or harvested, because computers have their own brand of unique errors when trying to predict the interactions between organisms and/or chemicals, especially unknown ones just encountered, so research with real organic matter are still important to this universe, just radically less so then in our real world and level of science/tech.
Yes - good points you two. Would it be morally acceptable to replicate and consume humans? I would think advanced sentient beings which CAN be herbivores and even frugivores! Would not even THINK about eating another "sentient" being - replicated or NOT. I think the carnists' adrenochrome addiction will have been long gone when humans reach a Type 1 Civilization...
That's what I've been saying about animal testing, in a sense. It makes zero sense to test on animals (The animals themselves, the food, labs, staff, etc etc) if there was a better way! This is no better way other than human experimentation (And we all know where that ends up). So between the two evils, which are we to do? (That's a general question to all, not just you Adam)
A logical response, but for the most part, perhaps holo-technology would provide for many testing scenarios. Computers would be far more advanced, yet still have their own unique technological problems.
This species is advanced enough to develop stealth technology that allows them to be literally invisible, but for some bizarre reason not advanced enough to conduct experiments on humans without poking and prodding them with primitive tools. How about some type of bioscanner that allows you to understand the workings of human physiology down to the cellular level
All very true, but at some point technological overspecialization comes into play, as well as a kind of tunnel vision. All that effort put into stealth tech could have gone into developing Vidiian levels of medical tech, but they were so busy protecting themselves from potential backlash from their "subjects" that it never even occurred to them to try developing harmless research tech.
They developed those technologies so that they could process experiments on sentient life safely. It's no different than our own Military Industrial Complex developing stealth technology to swoop in and take another country's resources. Also they are not merely invisible they are intangible they are phased out of our space.
She says "our techniques are as benign AS WE CAN MAKE THEM", implying that there's only so much they're willing or able to do to ensure the well being of their subjects. Any deformities or fatalities are sometimes just a necessary part of the work. They might alter or tweek an experiment to lessen the suffering or the death toll, but they're not going to stop doing the experiment altogether.
This kind of mentality is a great way of finding new enemies. One day, they would run into someone who's capabilities they underestimate, and who have the mentality of klingons. Would that be a sight to behold, their entire species getting their comeuppance.
Rosemary Forsythe as the alien is one of the two greatest performances ever. The other is Gladys Cooper in the Twilight Zone episode Nothing in the Dark.
Velma Velvet OMG Thank you Thank you Thank you for saying that about Rosemary Forsythe. I agree completely. I found this scene to be uniquely compelling from the first time I saw it. So much so that I now have the entire scene memorized word for word. I will check out the Twilight Zone episode you mentioned.
This is when Voyager is actually good not boring. In the unknown, I wanted the Voyager crew to face the unknown and with negative outcomes which was the challenge that Brannon Braga refuse to explore. This one episode is when Braga is not involve and we finally see Janeway becoming more like Ellen Ripley.
The aliens fail to realize that harming sentient life forms such as humans to forward their scientific agenda is immoral to us. They don't take our feelings into account, even though they fully know we can convey to them "Please stop."
In the same way, we fail to realize that harming sentient life forms on earth to forward a scientific agenda would be considered immoral to any outside observer.
+meerkat1954 *The* problem lies in communication. It's much easier to emotionally distance yourself from that which is foreign if you cannot communicate with them and share similarities such as empathy. If edible animals in our world could do this, we probably wouldn't kill them for food. Janeway and her crew is sentient, so are the aliens. They could communicate with each other. That's the difference. The aliens just choose to disregard the humans sentience in order to further their own interests, regardless of the costs. It'd be as if we humans conducted medical trials and experiments on people against their will. It'd be unacceptable.
One of my favorite episodes. The ending is probably the greatest Janeway scene ever. For me, this is the scariest episode of Star Trek ever made. The idea of invisible invaders in their home, observing them, is chilling. This episode left me with a life-long paranoia I still have, and I think it's very healthy: The enemies you need to worry about most are those you DON'T KNOW ABOUT!
Even their ships were attached to voyager like transient entities - just like the renaissance painting of Raphael the archangel shows the blue ethereal smoke under him and by his crown
Also the Aliens had turned the Voyager in a kind of a Concentration Camp. Back in Nazi days people were not only gased there, lots of absolutly unhuman experiments were done there also.
Offhand comment here for this episode but during the holodeck scene where the EMH tells Seven to meet with him there so they can find out about what's happening to the crew and eventually they find out that the cloaked aliens were experimenting on them, the Doctor or EMH makes an adjustment to Seven's visual perception via her left eye borg implant. When we see the color overlays through her eyes it's very very similar to the Predator's vision switching from Predator 2 when he can't see the human capture team but he knows they're there then he cycles through his bio mask's electromagnetic spectrum then finds them
Question... During the captains interview of the scientist in the brig, am I the only one who wanted to see Janeway bitch-slap the tar out of that smug scientist? 😁
I know the reasons, complete control over crew, but it would be a cool experiment to see “Is your life worth saving?” and proceed to torture this creature? Maybe keep firing more and more phasers into the area and getting closer saying they can depressurize the cell at any time and this is a test for her ability to handle stress. Maybe use plasma to see how she handles burns.
_Star Trek: Voyager_ had a lot of _terrible_ ideas, but it also had a lot of _really_ good ones, and they include this episode. I mean _look_ at this race. They don't pop up _anywhere_ else in _Star Trek_ but you _love_ to _hate_ 'em. "I don't like causing people to suffer, but sometimes it's a necessary part of my work." Listen to how high and mighty she sounds. Listen to how smug. But of course you _know_ they know their research is unethical. That's why they're not conducting this research on their _own_ people and _that's_ the part that _really_ pisses you off! "What kind of work is that?" "Medical research. We're scientists, like you." Not like them. _Absolutely_ not like them. When you _really_ identify with someone, you see them as _analogous_ to you and _refuse_ to justify any treatment of them that you refuse to subject _yourselves_ to. "Our techniques are as _benign_ as we can make them." An obvious lie. They could, of course, choose not to _conduct_ them. That would make them _much_ more benign. "Please understand that there's a purpose to our actions." Then conduct these experiments on your _own_ people. _They_ will understand, _surely._ See how much of them _you_ are prepared to tolerate. "We're really more similar than you care to admit." Something _protagonists_ never say. "You're a _remarkably_ strong-willed individual. I've been very _impressed_ by your self-control over the past several weeks." 🤦 _Oh,_ well I'm sure her approval gives Janeway a _warm fuzzy!_ You see? There's that smugness again. "If you make no further attempts to interfere, I assure you that the fatality rate will be minimal, though there may be some deformities. And I would be willing to share our final data with you." 😠😡😤🤬 Ohhhhh! The _gears grind!_ "You can't possibly expect me to accept that." "If you don't, then the entire experiment and its subjects will be terminated." So let's put this in more well known parlance. "If yous cooperate, we'll rough yous up a bit, bust a few kneecaps, break a few fingers and kill just a _few_ of yous, see? But if yous don't, you're all _dead,_ now. Capische?" I mean that's it. That's the long and short of what this woman just said, but with the kind of detached calm that made it _so galling!_
I'm surprised we never learned more about this species. Even the Malon gave some background about their culture. I would like to have seen Janeway take it to the extreme to stop them.
Danny Boi Any further attempt by Janeway or the crew to intervene would result in the entire experiment and its subjects being terminated. The aliens had complete control over the crew through the genetic tags. There’s no way Janeway could have ever laid a hand on her. So she took control back in the only way possible, and it was both effective and brilliant
There is only two reasons for harming a animal or killing a animal 1 self defense 2 for food Harming or killing a animal for the purpose of fun or sport is not ethical or right...
You forgot about population control. There are many invasive species that are causing other native species to go endangered. Seeing as humans were the ones that introduced these invasive species, it is our responsibility to protect the native species by controlling the invasive ones.
i appologize if this sounds argumentative, i assure you im not trying to be antagonistic but i would like to ask if you consider the idea of killing an animal for usable resources such as pelts, furs, bones and hides to make clothing or other essential tools an ethical reason to kill another animal?
I wish the final confrontation on the bridge had been with this particular alien so Janeway could have really stuck it to her smug face. I dont remember exactly the details of the episode and why it was another alien in that scene.
These aliens aren't sadists; they don't derive pleasure from the suffering of others. The work they do is, as she says, for the medical betterment of millions. It's humanitarian and utilitarian. To them, the deaths of a few aliens are worth the potential to improve millions of lives. If we could cure cancer- thereby sparing the suffering of millions - by subjecting a few hundred creatures to great torment, isn't it worth it? That is the question being posed by the aliens.
@monokhem Janeway only has that option because she's not in possession of any knowledge on how to access the dimension these aliens hide in. She can't get to them, she had to make them leave by their choice. Given the Borg are well versed in transwarp and other interdimensional travel and are far more technologically developed than Starfleet I think they would stand a far better chance of doing something about it.
@monokhem not necessarily true, if they determined that the technology these aliens possess in order to do what they do might be of particular usefulness they may well act almost straight away. Although I do agree with the point about them not being concerned about losing a few drones
This episode is, of course, an allegory about live animal in vivo experimentation. Most of the time such experiments only test the irrigation of cosmetics but the results are the same.
This is one of my favourite episodes of Voyager. Janeway will do everything in her power to escape an experiment, I'll do anything to avoid pharma diagnostic and vaccine medication. To conflate this episode, I decide what goes in my body - no government or private company😅❤
Could've been fun if lower decks showed a universe where janeway gave consent & the alien was like "congratulations on passing our test; you now have full access to our supermedicine & bioenchancement tech", so the upgraded voyager crew become immune to borg among other things... but yknow, still really grateful for what we got.
Just imagine if Janeway didn’t have those things to fly through at the end of the episode. Will she have no choice but to let her and the rest of the her alien colleagues finish the experiments?
VOLightPortal It would be the kind of protocol put in place to maintain a controlled environment/experiment and avoid any interaction which could result in empathy with their subjects and possibly skew the data.
This isn't just a statement on experiments upon helpless animals. To me, it's also a statement on the exploitation of mental health sufferers. I suffer from mental health myself, and there's a definite us vs them within the psychiatric community. We're not seen as equals - as humans. And there are plenty of past examples all throughout the 20th century that prove this point. This isn't just about "lesser" animals. It's about "lesser" humans as well.
Has anyone else been going through this type of psyche occupation or hear voices like me ? It might be the Royal institute via MIT Boston which by the way is part of the television closed circuit system that has something to do with it -
Let me conduct my own experiment, how much energy could your alien cranium take from a phaser set on the lowest setting but continuously fired until the power cell runs empty?
kuribo1 Any further attempt by Janeway or the crew to intervene would result in the entire experiment and its subjects being terminated. The aliens had complete control over the crew through the genetic tags. There’s no way Janeway could have ever laid a hand on her. So she took control back in the only way possible, and it was both effective and brilliant
If animals had a voice, they wouldn't be food animals because they would be sapient beings. Some would say sentient, but sentience is the ability to feel, not the ability to reason, therefore all conscious animals are sentient. If they were capable of reasoning conversation, no one with an ounce of empathy would even consider them food.
You could make the same argument for war though. How many medical advances do we have now because we had to figure out how to patch up the soldiers or civilians that weren't killed outright?
Have you ever considered the fact that animals ARE capable of conversation, it's just that humans are too stupid to understand what they're saying when they scream out in pain as we experiment on them?
meerkat1954 Animals are capable of feeling pain. Intelligent conversation is beyond them. I'm speaking of dogs, cats, monkeys, etc. I think dolphins and some whales are capable of intelligent conversation if we could only learn their language. And for that reason, I think it is wrong to experiment on such animals.
meerkat1954 Well they don't have a full language, nearly all animals can't communicate conceptual information, and literally everything feels pain. What's mire likely is that animals aren't sentient enough to reach that level of function and that emotions and pain are like data to a computer.
it is obvious lives on the voyager has decent intellect and are communicatable, diplomatic. Why the far-advanced alien don't know ethics ? Did the alien skipped Ethics class , but rush into Chemistry and Physics ?
The arrogance lol. She talks about how the most important thing to Janeway is the welfare of her crew and how she'd even kill to defend them. THEN goes and threatens to kill them all, really seams like a very arrogant and stupid thing to do.
Not exactly. Serotonin is more inclined to make a person more energetic, sleep better and have a healthy or increased appetite, amongst other things. Too much serotonin can in those with either a mechanical hardwiring or emotional instability disorder to be liable to increased aggression, but that comes with more energy usually and not a factor directly responsible for aggression. Interesting note aside, around 60-70% of all serotonin in the human body is in the gastrointestinal tract and stomach. Hence the more recent trends to eat fermented food, fibre and healthy bacteria etc. Dopamine is an interesting chemical. Dopamine often causes aggression but through too high a dose. Illegal drugs such a cocaine flood the brain with dopamine, amongst other chemicals. Dopamine lowers inhibition making some people less inclined to act rational and that can lead to a feeling of invincibility and elation that can cause aggressive actions, again, amongst other things. If anything they'd have been better off pumping up the norepinephrine levels as that chemical that can lead to aggression and/or anxiety. Running on fumes with little to no sleep, not eating well and constantly harried and stressed can be a side effect of some norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors that doctors prescribe. Essentially, to finish. The scientists would probably have to boost them all or some to higher levels and switch them around. I think dopamine was used as at the time it was associated with street drugs and thus violent tendencies etc. But in truth messing with serotonin, dopamine or norepinephrine levels will more than likely cause anybody to lose their minds over an extended period of time. Add to that the invisible devices they had drilled into Janeway's skull at the time.
I swear, the Delta quadrant had an inordinate number of abhorrent species and cultures. I hope the Federation and their Klingon allies pay them all a visit in the future...... "Regardless, we now know of the existence of your species, and how to imprison you. Please bare that in mind..." ~Jean Luc Picard. How great would it be for Admiral Janeway to show up with a fleet to put a stop to attacks like the one in this video.
Talking to you in outside of my protocol. Well having my crew experimented on is out of Star Fleet protocol. So . . . Looks like we are both coloring outside the lines.
I'm certain that had Janeway bent or even broken the rules resorting to a little bit of Romulan plotting, Cardassian cruelty and Klingon brute force, Seven of nine would have had several dead crew members less to name to Janeway. The remaining dead wouldn't have died for bubbly, cloying and happy Federation principles.
This is the one thing I consistently don't like about Star Trek. The absolute, all out, zero tolerance NEEEEEEEEEEED for one side to be morally superior. DS9 came closest to ethical ambiguity being an accepted idea, but even it never got closer than "well, I guess the bad guys aren't all bad, and we aren't all good." It's arguments like this, where they can't just assert events as they are perceived and be done with it. no no no..someone has to be a victim, and someone has to be an evil oppressive force. No room to just say "We disagree. Have at thee." It has to be "I'm right, and you're bad."
The current liberal, nanny state, Neo-socialist political ideaology is on full display in most episodes. Californian Progressives, wanting a Communist Utopia.
I has sleep apnea for 2 years and felt the same way Janeway was that entire time. I wishes that my suffering could have been used to help millions. For Janeway to say staying awake for over 3 days to help millions is ok in my opinion.
Maybe. But the arrogant Mengele this alien "researcher" is shall not be tolerated. Of course, let me present an analogy, Nazi unhuman research is now vastly used in modern medicine. We accept it as a happened event, yes. It does not mean we approve it. Moreover, captain Janeway is a captain. It means that she is responsible for an amount of lifes under her command, even before her own life. And when this Mengele woman says, as Janeway and we receive it: "We will torture your crew for the next week or two with all the sadism We've got, some of them may even die, but that's alright, get along with it. Console yourselves with the fact that We may share something with you. Consider it a gift of Our benevolence and be grateful to those who are higher than you." (and there is something on the periphery of hearing in addition: "As you untermenschen shall"). Considering myself a part of Jewish people I cannot refer to this unhuman, unethical, un-anything sadistic torment as anything good. I understand your condition wery well, but this "you shall be grateful" rhetorics give me nothing but pure, distilled hate. And do you know what is the worst part? They - I refer, of course, to these Mengele aliens - will never listen to anything I have said above. Not only because we are untermenschen, equal for them to caddle, but additionally because they do not have ideas of ethicity and humanism in their thinking paradigm. The only way to communicate with them effectively is (cocks phaser rifle) the violent way. And this is the way we will always regret walking.
In my opinion this was one of the most evil races in Star Trek history. They basically running human experiments on life people they don't care if they die they treat them like animals. They are so unremorseful.
Research is required to advance medical science. But it is only to be done after a brief of the research is sent to an ethics committee for approval. The committee will probably require some adjustments. They want the research project to be: . Safe . Ethical . Relevant . The results have to be reproduced Participants must be given a full brief of the research that they'll participating in; what it is,the purpose, the risks involved, how much time is required for the research etc. After this,potential participants can decide whether or not to proceed or they may have a physical or mental health condition that means researchers have to remove them from the project. What this species was doing would be considered dangerous and unethical; they had no history on their participants,no consent the research would be disallowed due to it's unethical nature.
0:52,... Oh yeah,... that superior technological race has laws and codes that prevent them from divulging any info. Damn,... that Prime Directive really gets in the way. That's damn convenient for Starfleet to go trespassing across the stars, and that way Starfleet, hiding under its Federation, never has to face the consequences of their own actions.
I always hated those aliens for being so smug.
Graveheart yet you eat your daily meat and consume your animal tested medicine
If you read Grant manga, you would see in the story where alien invasion to ours planet and what do they treat humans? Local Delicacy.
In the manga, after the destruction of the cities, the alien would pick up people and wash them and gut those like pigs in the slaughter house, then sold them in their Mall in the mothership as food.
Then they would gather a big portion and then put those humans into a cage like animals so they can breed like we do with pigs.
Remember, to those who think they are superior, the lesser beings are nothing but animals, we have so many cases like that throughout history.
@Anonymous User But those lower life-form don't travel on spaceship or have theirs own civilians.
I guess it's how you define civilization level that is acceptable to perform experiment or not.
Federation is pretty low, back to the Stone Age or Tribe as shown in the movie "Into the Darkness".
@Anonymous User The Q did it, so the more advance a species become, the higher standard they consider others as "Sentient" I guess.
@@Mopsie I admit. This is true. Animal testing needs to stop now. Also, I know that there are very successful meat growing technologies that are in play.
This is also the episode where Kate Mulgrew quit smoking, so her aggressiveness and irritability was partly due to nicotine withdrawals. She was brilliant, as she used the way she was feeling to enhance her performance.
I suspected she was a smoker--something about her voice.
yeah, the whole argument is great and all, but since they specifically chose to experiment on a foreign starship and not their own citizens they pretty much know what they are doing isnt ethical
If they consider their species to be inferior why not? It might just be easier to do it with them or yield different results
It's an act of war. Only thing here is, they don't expect Voyager to be capable of fighting back.
Would you consider experimenting on a rat declearing war on rats?
If they were sentient, had a sovereign nation, and my actions had been sanctioned by mine, yes.
Sentient by which standards and a nation by what definition?
These are definitely not the first shadowy, super-evolved aliens who've mercilessly used a Starfleet crew as their own personal lab rats, but this species is hands down the scariest of them all! Those other mengelian species were typically quite inhuman in appearance and behavior. But these guys look and comport themselves almost like Federation scientists. They're even sporting Dr. Crusher-style lab coats. If you were lying on your bio-bed in Sick Bay, and one of them walked over to you with a smile on their face, you'd think they were your friend. Their calm, gentle-voiced, but sociopathic "bedside manners", along with their unnervingly human-like appearance made them quite spine chilling to me. It's a shame they never reappeared in the Star Trek universe. As a Delta-quadrant species, they were a thousand times more interesting than the Kazon ever were.
There was nothing kind about them. They were openly hostile and arrogant. They just did it in a more civilized way rather than the typical uncloth antongonist/villain type way. They came off like "Friends" fans. Arrogant and smug. The only thing they had that I agree with you on is human and plausible motives.
These types seemed to be modeled after what I call the WGN type of bigots. And I'm starting to think this show bashed The WB. Lol and something about this just lets me know that Warner Bros. agrees with me as do countless others lol that UPN had more in common with Warner Bros.. A WGN bigot is basically my slang term for one of those (who like the uncloth types are Allied, "Friends"-watching "Seinfeld"-hating) neutral American accented bigots like those from Chicago who instead of being the old school uncloth bigots tend to be the type that when questioned about their cruel actions or racism, say, "Decline to comment" to show they really believe that but that they're too civilized to openly boast about it cause they believe in being orderly lol.
Since this is a typical black show, they made it seem that they deny it. If this were "TNG" or "The Sentinel" or the "Lethal Weapon" movies, the antagonists/villains would not deny it lol. As white people wouldn't do, being part Hispanic.
Sounds like you DO agree with the person. Maybe you need to reread what the person said.@@robjackson5245
I’d hardly compare them to Starfleet scientists. You can hear the uncaring callousness in this woman’s voice.
It was vindicating seeing one of their ships get blown up at the end of this episode, and all because they tested Janeway's nerve too much.
It's a safe bet the survivors limped away and told their colleagues to stay far away from Voyager.
Loved this episode. The actress that played as the "scientist" was fantastic at playing her in a kind of eery cold but "nice" emotion that played to her character's ego and self righteousness.
linkeffect82 I agree. Her character name was Alzan. Just a bit of trivia fun
linkeffect82 I wanted to see Janeway beat the holy hell out of that alien...where's Kirk with his punch-an-alien-in-the-face diplomacy?haha
Denise Herud she did even better than that. She destroyed 1 of the 2 alien vessels that were attempting to disengage from Voyager in the final scene
Denise Herud it wouldn't have done anything.
Yes she reminds me of the Borg queen.
Sorry, these labrats are fighting back, classic line from Captain Janeway
I do not understand how making Neelix smell like a milean has any medical benefits it just seems like they are toying with him🤣🤣🤣
*A cornered Fox is more Dangerous than a Jackle*--Gray Fox Metal Gear Solid 1998
"You're exaggerating!"
"Alright, let's put you through some stuff of our own, after all, I'm a scientist too, right? We need data as well"
AIDS
Corona Virus
One of the best episodes of Voyager. It had everything: suspense, social criticism, action and fun. Perfect episode with a brilliant Janeway.
And the way it came to be, Kate Mulgrew quits tobacco and probably goes to the studio that week angry, cranky, and pissed off at everything maybe a bit embarrassed, but the writers go “Caterina Cara Mia” (I am trying to make it sound like the DaVinci holo program) and craft out a story around angry pissed off, tired Janeway getting driven mad by the experiments
Janeway hitting fk it is my favorite trek scene ever
best thing it mirrors human behavior and morals.
I know some people weren't the biggest fans of Voyager, but I loved this show.
Voyager is as good as TNG and those two are the best.
With all due respect to TOS for the path breaking show, of course.
I dislike DS9 because although it's gritty and "real" it's not what Star Trek is. Trek is about exploration, friendships, STEM mysteries and space utopias, not the usual human conflicts played out in space. Enterprise is OK, it made a mess of handling T'Pol by objectifying her. TNG and Ent had too much rapey stuff to my liking. Voyager gives respect to women like all others do to men. Voyager is the most progressive of all of them, most egalitarian.
The Actress who plays the alien , is really good .
careful animals can bite hard when threatened💀
Anyone hear a slight tremble in her voice? Poor Janeway was on the verge of breaking down. Imagine what would have happened if it went on for another day or two?
Question how does making someone bleed out from severe adrenal stress?🤣🤣
save lives?🤣🤣
Kate Mulgrew is Brilliant at supresed emotion. She made me cry atleast 5 times through the series.
This was such a great episode. The flaw in the scientific method is the appeal to greed. The lure of information about objective reality can often be tempting and that makes some scientists willing to ignore suffering to obtain that information in their experiments.
The scientific method prioritizes getting repeatable results, not a lack of suffering. Greed is a moral failing. But greed is just a fact of life for a race like the Farengi. Morality and ethical behavior are culturally determined. This isn't a conflict where one side is right and the other is wrong. It's a conflict where neither side can yield anything to the other. Their behaviors are dictated by their cultures because their cultures have reinforced specific values in their belief systems. They can't compromise if they can't change. And they can't change the things that define them.
@@jumperpoint A much more interesting and thought-provoking take. Even more so than the ham-fisted scenario concocted by the writers of this episode.
holy hell you're stupid -- you don't even know what "greed" is
Me if i was janeway: Computer cut all life support from the cell an erect a level 9 barrier Her: what you doin Me: oh a experiment see how much you can live with out life support
"Computer, beam the alien out into space, widest possible dispersion."
A good episode. Janeway's solution was both risky and brilliant.
Her reaction was the same as Picard's in the episode, 'Where Silence Has Lease' or to Riker's in, 'The Best of Both Worlds 2.' It's a courageous and commendable reaction to an impossible situation of torment, slavery and psychopathy. If you've ever been tortured and are a truly brave individual, you would probably do the same thing.
I must give Janeway the moral high-ground here. I'd fight them too, scientific research or not. Great episode, greatly acted out.
1:42 Janeway measuring alien for a coffin
best comment
Janeway was bad-ass!
they wanted to test Janeway under stress? They deserve her reaction! Great!
And she goes full Sisko on them.
if they wanted to test her under stress they should take away her coffee
That's exactly what we do with our test animals. Only that they can't defend themselves, not even call for help. When you realize this situation, it's just horrible for our test animals.
But they're so yummy!
@@haitolawrence5986Yup. Especially the holy communion/ not only yummy but it gets you a free ride ticket to heaven.
Even with test animals, it's not quite the same. There are ethics review boards that have to approve everything. You would never get approved to cut off the legs of animals only to try and reattach them elsewhere while they're alive, as an example. For the most part, the animals are quickly and humanely put down once the research is conducted, or their immediate use has expired. There are differences between what we do, and what the aliens do; significant ones at that when dealing a sapient person.
@@haitolawrence5986 We don't eat lab animals. Please stay on topic.
btw, in the starfleet time period, animal testing, would be pretty much obsolete, not even from a morality perspective, just that we'd be able to simulate animals using holodeck-esque technology, animal farming will likewise be obsolete due to replicators being able to create meat
I almost completely agree with you, but from what I've seen, starfleet still does at a minimum tests to micro-organisms such as diseases or even larger organisms like plants that are replicated, or harvested, because computers have their own brand of unique errors when trying to predict the interactions between organisms and/or chemicals, especially unknown ones just encountered, so research with real organic matter are still important to this universe, just radically less so then in our real world and level of science/tech.
good points
Yes - good points you two.
Would it be morally acceptable to replicate and consume humans?
I would think advanced sentient beings which CAN be herbivores and even frugivores! Would not even THINK about eating another "sentient" being - replicated or NOT.
I think the carnists' adrenochrome addiction will have been long gone when humans reach a Type 1 Civilization...
That's what I've been saying about animal testing, in a sense. It makes zero sense to test on animals (The animals themselves, the food, labs, staff, etc etc) if there was a better way! This is no better way other than human experimentation (And we all know where that ends up). So between the two evils, which are we to do? (That's a general question to all, not just you Adam)
A logical response, but for the most part, perhaps holo-technology would provide for many testing scenarios. Computers would be far more advanced, yet still have their own unique technological problems.
this whole episode was proof why janeway was the most bad ass captain ever.
I'd say she's either 'bad' or 'ass', but not the two combined
As if the episode where she channeled Ripley from aliens while fighting ginormous viruses with a phaser rifle wasn't proof enough
"I never knew you thought of me as reckless, Tuvok."
"My mistake, Captain. It was quite clearly an understatement."
This species is advanced enough to develop stealth technology that allows them to be literally invisible, but for some bizarre reason not advanced enough to conduct experiments on humans without poking and prodding them with primitive tools. How about some type of bioscanner that allows you to understand the workings of human physiology down to the cellular level
All very true, but at some point technological overspecialization comes into play, as well as a kind of tunnel vision. All that effort put into stealth tech could have gone into developing Vidiian levels of medical tech, but they were so busy protecting themselves from potential backlash from their "subjects" that it never even occurred to them to try developing harmless research tech.
Scans can only tell so much
They tried that, but the subjects' heads kept exploding.
Waw that sounds realistic
They developed those technologies so that they could process experiments on sentient life safely. It's no different than our own Military Industrial Complex developing stealth technology to swoop in and take another country's resources. Also they are not merely invisible they are intangible they are phased out of our space.
First she says that the experiments are benign, then she says that the fatality rates will be minimal but there will be some deformities.
She says "our techniques are as benign AS WE CAN MAKE THEM", implying that there's only so much they're willing or able to do to ensure the well being of their subjects. Any deformities or fatalities are sometimes just a necessary part of the work. They might alter or tweek an experiment to lessen the suffering or the death toll, but they're not going to stop doing the experiment altogether.
The dialogue between Janeway and thay hostile alien woman was superb acting.
Excellent acting! Both actresses played their roles well. Cold and direct..
agreed
back when star trek was good
It's still good.
@@jment34 New Star Trek starring with Enterprise sucks.
@@jment34 It is not
I always like to imagine how the other captains would have reacted to this alien. And the one i want to see most is Sisko
This is what happens if you mess with Captain Janeway
I love her line "These lab rats are fighting back!" So Janeway-esce.
Don't mess with her or she'll go Full Kathy on you.
This kind of mentality is a great way of finding new enemies. One day, they would run into someone who's capabilities they underestimate, and who have the mentality of klingons. Would that be a sight to behold, their entire species getting their comeuppance.
Was I the only one who was expecting to hear some weird animal sound thrown into the clip?
Rosemary Forsythe as the alien is one of the two greatest performances ever. The other is Gladys Cooper in the Twilight Zone episode Nothing in the Dark.
Velma Velvet OMG Thank you Thank you Thank you for saying that about Rosemary Forsythe. I agree completely. I found this scene to be uniquely compelling from the first time I saw it. So much so that I now have the entire scene memorized word for word.
I will check out the Twilight Zone episode you mentioned.
The Twilight Zone episode also stars Robert Redford when he was in his 20s.
I think she was also on Days of Our Lives where she played a psychiatrist that's why she looked familiar to me
This is when Voyager is actually good not boring. In the unknown, I wanted the Voyager crew to face the unknown and with negative outcomes which was the challenge that Brannon Braga refuse to explore.
This one episode is when Braga is not involve and we finally see Janeway becoming more like Ellen Ripley.
Can’t remember if this alien pulled up a copy of PETA’s video library as a defence.
"There's the right way, the wrong way, and the Janeway."
This sounds EXACTLY like the arguments of the Big Pharma executives. Chilling. ha.
Oh look another Covid conspiracy theorist
@@kyotosinfinity5959 Their comment was made before the covid pandemic even happened.
@@enclavesoldier2435 it was a joke
@@kyotosinfinity5959 / Woosh
@@enclavesoldier2435 yeah it did go right over your head didn’t it haha
The aliens fail to realize that harming sentient life forms such as humans to forward their scientific agenda is immoral to us. They don't take our feelings into account, even though they fully know we can convey to them "Please stop."
In the same way, we fail to realize that harming sentient life forms on earth to forward a scientific agenda would be considered immoral to any outside observer.
+meerkat1954 *The* problem lies in communication. It's much easier to emotionally distance yourself from that which is foreign if you cannot communicate with them and share similarities such as empathy. If edible animals in our world could do this, we probably wouldn't kill them for food.
Janeway and her crew is sentient, so are the aliens. They could communicate with each other. That's the difference. The aliens just choose to disregard the humans sentience in order to further their own interests, regardless of the costs. It'd be as if we humans conducted medical trials and experiments on people against their will. It'd be unacceptable.
I love this scene and this whole episode. "... though there may be some deformities" LOL! :-D
One of my favorite episodes. The ending is probably the greatest Janeway scene ever. For me, this is the scariest episode of Star Trek ever made. The idea of invisible invaders in their home, observing them, is chilling. This episode left me with a life-long paranoia I still have, and I think it's very healthy: The enemies you need to worry about most are those you DON'T KNOW ABOUT!
Even their ships were attached to voyager like transient entities - just like the renaissance painting of Raphael the archangel shows the blue ethereal smoke under him and by his crown
She outright murdered Tuvix so she would have no problem ganking this alien.
Also the Aliens had turned the Voyager in a kind of a Concentration Camp. Back in Nazi days people were not only gased there, lots of absolutly unhuman experiments were done there also.
Offhand comment here for this episode but during the holodeck scene where the EMH tells Seven to meet with him there so they can find out about what's happening to the crew and eventually they find out that the cloaked aliens were experimenting on them, the Doctor or EMH makes an adjustment to Seven's visual perception via her left eye borg implant. When we see the color overlays through her eyes it's very very similar to the Predator's vision switching from Predator 2 when he can't see the human capture team but he knows they're there then he cycles through his bio mask's electromagnetic spectrum then finds them
Question... During the captains interview of the scientist in the brig, am I the only one who wanted to see Janeway bitch-slap the tar out of that smug scientist? 😁
Introduce that evil species to the Borg. To see how their experiments turn out. 😂
I know the reasons, complete control over crew, but it would be a cool experiment to see “Is your life worth saving?” and proceed to torture this creature? Maybe keep firing more and more phasers into the area and getting closer saying they can depressurize the cell at any time and this is a test for her ability to handle stress. Maybe use plasma to see how she handles burns.
Sweet dreams are made of this, who am I to disagree...
Sisko - "If you and your people don't get off my ship this instant, you and your entire species will be eliminated!"
_Star Trek: Voyager_ had a lot of _terrible_ ideas, but it also had a lot of _really_ good ones, and they include this episode. I mean _look_ at this race. They don't pop up _anywhere_ else in _Star Trek_ but you _love_ to _hate_ 'em.
"I don't like causing people to suffer, but sometimes it's a necessary part of my work."
Listen to how high and mighty she sounds. Listen to how smug. But of course you _know_ they know their research is unethical. That's why they're not conducting this research on their _own_ people and _that's_ the part that _really_ pisses you off!
"What kind of work is that?"
"Medical research. We're scientists, like you."
Not like them. _Absolutely_ not like them. When you _really_ identify with someone, you see them as _analogous_ to you and _refuse_ to justify any treatment of them that you refuse to subject _yourselves_ to.
"Our techniques are as _benign_ as we can make them."
An obvious lie. They could, of course, choose not to _conduct_ them. That would make them _much_ more benign.
"Please understand that there's a purpose to our actions."
Then conduct these experiments on your _own_ people. _They_ will understand, _surely._ See how much of them _you_ are prepared to tolerate.
"We're really more similar than you care to admit."
Something _protagonists_ never say.
"You're a _remarkably_ strong-willed individual. I've been very _impressed_ by your self-control over the past several weeks."
🤦 _Oh,_ well I'm sure her approval gives Janeway a _warm fuzzy!_
You see? There's that smugness again.
"If you make no further attempts to interfere, I assure you that the fatality rate will be minimal, though there may be some deformities. And I would be willing to share our final data with you."
😠😡😤🤬 Ohhhhh! The _gears grind!_
"You can't possibly expect me to accept that."
"If you don't, then the entire experiment and its subjects will be terminated."
So let's put this in more well known parlance. "If yous cooperate, we'll rough yous up a bit, bust a few kneecaps, break a few fingers and kill just a _few_ of yous, see? But if yous don't, you're all _dead,_ now. Capische?" I mean that's it. That's the long and short of what this woman just said, but with the kind of detached calm that made it _so galling!_
I'm surprised we never learned more about this species. Even the Malon gave some background about their culture. I would like to have seen Janeway take it to the extreme to stop them.
Alien: Then the entire experiment and its subjects will be terminated.
Janeway: Janeway to Seven. Yes, the Sisko Maneuver.
One of the best episodes. Janeway flying into a fucking sun out of pettiness cannot be topped. Best Captain.
I always loved Voyager's brig design, as it has that lovely teal colour all over it, and it's my favourite colour.
Aliens always underestimate humans (if pushed against the wall) capacity to turn into the worst blood thirsty Klingon when the pressure is build up.
Captain, throw it out the airlock.
Danny Boi Any further attempt by Janeway or the crew to intervene would result in the entire experiment and its subjects being terminated. The aliens had complete control over the crew through the genetic tags. There’s no way Janeway could have ever laid a hand on her. So she took control back in the only way possible, and it was both effective and brilliant
teeth6556 You miss the reference.
Danny Boi And what reference is that?
Mass Effect.
Danny Boi I’m still not following. Plz clarify.
There is only two reasons for harming a animal or killing a animal
1 self defense
2 for food
Harming or killing a animal for the purpose of fun or sport is not ethical or right...
You forgot about population control. There are many invasive species that are causing other native species to go endangered. Seeing as humans were the ones that introduced these invasive species, it is our responsibility to protect the native species by controlling the invasive ones.
pat Newland not like I care about your viewpoint
Pat, do you own any belts made out of leather?
There's a such thing as synthetic leather.
i appologize if this sounds argumentative, i assure you im not trying to be antagonistic but i would like to ask if you consider the idea of killing an animal for usable resources such as pelts, furs, bones and hides to make clothing or other essential tools an ethical reason to kill another animal?
I wish the final confrontation on the bridge had been with this particular alien so Janeway could have really stuck it to her smug face. I dont remember exactly the details of the episode and why it was another alien in that scene.
I wonder if the borg have encountered these aliens. And if they did I hope they assimilated them since these aliens are a bunch of sadistic !@$%&*!#.
These aliens aren't sadists; they don't derive pleasure from the suffering of others. The work they do is, as she says, for the medical betterment of millions. It's humanitarian and utilitarian. To them, the deaths of a few aliens are worth the potential to improve millions of lives.
If we could cure cancer- thereby sparing the suffering of millions - by subjecting a few hundred creatures to great torment, isn't it worth it? That is the question being posed by the aliens.
monokhem when you say F up do you mean conquer or a waste of resources?
@monokhem Given that 7 of 9 could see them i think you're probably very wrong in that assumption...
@monokhem Janeway only has that option because she's not in possession of any knowledge on how to access the dimension these aliens hide in. She can't get to them, she had to make them leave by their choice. Given the Borg are well versed in transwarp and other interdimensional travel and are far more technologically developed than Starfleet I think they would stand a far better chance of doing something about it.
@monokhem not necessarily true, if they determined that the technology these aliens possess in order to do what they do might be of particular usefulness they may well act almost straight away. Although I do agree with the point about them not being concerned about losing a few drones
Janeway murdered Tuvix. She doesn't get to high-road anyone.
Never piss off Captain Kathryn Janeway she will win everytime
This episode is, of course, an allegory about live animal in vivo experimentation. Most of the time such experiments only test the irrigation of cosmetics but the results are the same.
This is one of my favourite episodes of Voyager. Janeway will do everything in her power to escape an experiment, I'll do anything to avoid pharma diagnostic and vaccine medication. To conflate this episode, I decide what goes in my body - no government or private company😅❤
Could've been fun if lower decks showed a universe where janeway gave consent & the alien was like "congratulations on passing our test; you now have full access to our supermedicine & bioenchancement tech", so the upgraded voyager crew become immune to borg among other things... but yknow, still really grateful for what we got.
An amazing episode on many fronts!
Jeff Hallam Agreed. Probably my favorite of all time. I have this scene memorized word for word!
This could be happening on you right now.
That headache that has lasted a few days.
That pain in your foot.
And other niggles...
The Srivani should be happy that Janeway no longer had the Tri-Cobalt Torpedoes...or that they weren't dealing Sisko.
Endocrinological experimentation similar to this episode reflect either et or transient entity use via whomever controls them.
Just imagine if Janeway didn’t have those things to fly through at the end of the episode.
Will she have no choice but to let her and the rest of the her alien colleagues finish the experiments?
What kind of freaking protocol is that?!
VOLightPortal It would be the kind of protocol put in place to maintain a controlled environment/experiment and avoid any interaction which could result in empathy with their subjects and possibly skew the data.
Similar is done in drug trials. You won't know if you're on the placebo or the drug. They won't tell you because it may affect the results.
And if there is a problem during testing you kill all the subjects?
This always happens. I watch one of these clips and immediately need to find the episode and watch it.❤
This isn't just a statement on experiments upon helpless animals. To me, it's also a statement on the exploitation of mental health sufferers. I suffer from mental health myself, and there's a definite us vs them within the psychiatric community. We're not seen as equals - as humans. And there are plenty of past examples all throughout the 20th century that prove this point. This isn't just about "lesser" animals. It's about "lesser" humans as well.
this aliens must conduct experiment to the borg.hahaha
Has anyone else been going through this type of psyche occupation or hear voices like me ? It might be the Royal institute via MIT Boston which by the way is part of the television closed circuit system that has something to do with it -
Let me conduct my own experiment, how much energy could your alien cranium take from a phaser set on the lowest setting but continuously fired until the power cell runs empty?
kuribo1 Any further attempt by Janeway or the crew to intervene would result in the entire experiment and its subjects being terminated. The aliens had complete control over the crew through the genetic tags. There’s no way Janeway could have ever laid a hand on her. So she took control back in the only way possible, and it was both effective and brilliant
If animals had a voice, they wouldn't be food animals because they would be sapient beings. Some would say sentient, but sentience is the ability to feel, not the ability to reason, therefore all conscious animals are sentient. If they were capable of reasoning conversation, no one with an ounce of empathy would even consider them food.
Yep. Not to mention that without animal testing modern medicine would be all but nonexistent..
You could make the same argument for war though. How many medical advances do we have now because we had to figure out how to patch up the soldiers or civilians that weren't killed outright?
Have you ever considered the fact that animals ARE capable of conversation, it's just that humans are too stupid to understand what they're saying when they scream out in pain as we experiment on them?
meerkat1954 Animals are capable of feeling pain. Intelligent conversation is beyond them. I'm speaking of dogs, cats, monkeys, etc. I think dolphins and some whales are capable of intelligent conversation if we could only learn their language. And for that reason, I think it is wrong to experiment on such animals.
meerkat1954 Well they don't have a full language, nearly all animals can't communicate conceptual information, and literally everything feels pain. What's mire likely is that animals aren't sentient enough to reach that level of function and that emotions and pain are like data to a computer.
Janeway is one of my heroes !! When I die I want to go to a starship !!
it is obvious lives on the voyager has decent intellect and are communicatable, diplomatic.
Why the far-advanced alien don't know ethics ?
Did the alien skipped Ethics class , but rush into Chemistry and Physics ?
They are nazis, maybe?
The arrogance lol. She talks about how the most important thing to Janeway is the welfare of her crew and how she'd even kill to defend them. THEN goes and threatens to kill them all, really seams like a very arrogant and stupid thing to do.
Wait, isn’t serotonin responsible for triggering the aggressive impulse?
Not exactly. Serotonin is more inclined to make a person more energetic, sleep better and have a healthy or increased appetite, amongst other things. Too much serotonin can in those with either a mechanical hardwiring or emotional instability disorder to be liable to increased aggression, but that comes with more energy usually and not a factor directly responsible for aggression. Interesting note aside, around 60-70% of all serotonin in the human body is in the gastrointestinal tract and stomach. Hence the more recent trends to eat fermented food, fibre and healthy bacteria etc.
Dopamine is an interesting chemical. Dopamine often causes aggression but through too high a dose. Illegal drugs such a cocaine flood the brain with dopamine, amongst other chemicals. Dopamine lowers inhibition making some people less inclined to act rational and that can lead to a feeling of invincibility and elation that can cause aggressive actions, again, amongst other things.
If anything they'd have been better off pumping up the norepinephrine levels as that chemical that can lead to aggression and/or anxiety. Running on fumes with little to no sleep, not eating well and constantly harried and stressed can be a side effect of some norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors that doctors prescribe.
Essentially, to finish. The scientists would probably have to boost them all or some to higher levels and switch them around. I think dopamine was used as at the time it was associated with street drugs and thus violent tendencies etc. But in truth messing with serotonin, dopamine or norepinephrine levels will more than likely cause anybody to lose their minds over an extended period of time. Add to that the invisible devices they had drilled into Janeway's skull at the time.
PierreShark Damb u know ur science
I swear, the Delta quadrant had an inordinate number of abhorrent species and cultures. I hope the Federation and their Klingon allies pay them all a visit in the future......
"Regardless, we now know of the existence of your species, and how to imprison you. Please bare that in mind..." ~Jean Luc Picard.
How great would it be for Admiral Janeway to show up with a fleet to put a stop to attacks like the one in this video.
Talking to you in outside of my protocol.
Well having my crew experimented on is out of Star Fleet protocol. So . . . Looks like we are both coloring outside the lines.
0:00 to 0:09 Silence of the Lambs shout-out.
"Doctor, the sperm whale on Earth devours millions of cuttlefish as it roams the oceans. It is not evil; it is feeding."
I really wanted them to come back to this species. Perhaps to bring the wraith of the federation upon them or something.
I'm certain that had Janeway bent or even broken the rules resorting to a little bit of Romulan plotting, Cardassian cruelty and Klingon brute force, Seven of nine would have had several dead crew members less to name to Janeway. The remaining dead wouldn't have died for bubbly, cloying and happy Federation principles.
So then she flew them into a sun.
Classic Jameway move.
This is the one thing I consistently don't like about Star Trek. The absolute, all out, zero tolerance NEEEEEEEEEEED for one side to be morally superior. DS9 came closest to ethical ambiguity being an accepted idea, but even it never got closer than "well, I guess the bad guys aren't all bad, and we aren't all good."
It's arguments like this, where they can't just assert events as they are perceived and be done with it. no no no..someone has to be a victim, and someone has to be an evil oppressive force. No room to just say "We disagree. Have at thee." It has to be "I'm right, and you're bad."
The current liberal, nanny state, Neo-socialist political ideaology is on full display in most episodes. Californian Progressives, wanting a Communist Utopia.
Republicans (some) are the same way!
aw man, I totally forgot what she does in response.... :D I wanna see this episode now.
I’ve told all my doctors
They simply say
Want a prescription ?
Thats hpw they get paid
They always omit the most obvious arguments in these shows. I wonder if it's intentional.
I has sleep apnea for 2 years and felt the same way Janeway was that entire time. I wishes that my suffering could have been used to help millions. For Janeway to say staying awake for over 3 days to help millions is ok in my opinion.
Maybe. But the arrogant Mengele this alien "researcher" is shall not be tolerated. Of course, let me present an analogy, Nazi unhuman research is now vastly used in modern medicine. We accept it as a happened event, yes. It does not mean we approve it. Moreover, captain Janeway is a captain. It means that she is responsible for an amount of lifes under her command, even before her own life. And when this Mengele woman says, as Janeway and we receive it: "We will torture your crew for the next week or two with all the sadism We've got, some of them may even die, but that's alright, get along with it. Console yourselves with the fact that We may share something with you. Consider it a gift of Our benevolence and be grateful to those who are higher than you." (and there is something on the periphery of hearing in addition: "As you untermenschen shall"). Considering myself a part of Jewish people I cannot refer to this unhuman, unethical, un-anything sadistic torment as anything good. I understand your condition wery well, but this "you shall be grateful" rhetorics give me nothing but pure, distilled hate.
And do you know what is the worst part? They - I refer, of course, to these Mengele aliens - will never listen to anything I have said above. Not only because we are untermenschen, equal for them to caddle, but additionally because they do not have ideas of ethicity and humanism in their thinking paradigm. The only way to communicate with them effectively is (cocks phaser rifle) the violent way. And this is the way we will always regret walking.
I absolutely love the ending of that episode.. Badass Janeway being badass!
I wish the aliens would’ve just bought the medical technology from the Ferengi. But I know they ate just too far away.
if my cat had a voice I'll never hear the end of her bitching ...thank God I only hear the calming sound of meow meow meow...
Your cat is saying "Where's my fish, Foodbringer!? You have one job!"
In my opinion this was one of the most evil races in Star Trek history. They basically running human experiments on life people they don't care if they die they treat them like animals. They are so unremorseful.
dislike the aliens but i think their hair design is cool. props to the makeup team!
Could assimilation by 7 have worked against these aliens ?
Research is required to advance medical science. But it is only to be done after a brief of the research is sent to an ethics committee for approval. The committee will probably require some adjustments. They want the research project to be:
. Safe
. Ethical
. Relevant
. The results have to be reproduced
Participants must be given a full brief of the research that they'll participating in; what it is,the purpose, the risks involved, how much time is required for the research etc. After this,potential participants can decide whether or not to proceed or they may have a physical or mental health condition that means researchers have to remove them from the project.
What this species was doing would be considered dangerous and unethical; they had no history on their participants,no consent the research would be disallowed due to it's unethical nature.
2 020
If someone did something like that to me I would get a hammer and go to town.
This lady played Adrian Monk’s mother-in-law in “Monk”.
Got us an active PETA supporter here lol love this episode tho.
0:52,... Oh yeah,... that superior technological race has laws and codes that prevent them from divulging any info. Damn,... that Prime Directive really gets in the way. That's damn convenient for Starfleet to go trespassing across the stars, and that way Starfleet, hiding under its Federation, never has to face the consequences of their own actions.