EPIC Janeway argument - if animals had a voice...
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ธ.ค. 2013
- from the episode "Scientific Method"
when she talks about the exploitation of species - you can easily make a comparison to animals. She also says laboratory rats fighting back... the double meaning cannot get much clearer than that other than saying it directly - ตลก
I always hated those aliens for being so smug.
Graveheart yet you eat your daily meat and consume your animal tested medicine
If you read Grant manga, you would see in the story where alien invasion to ours planet and what do they treat humans? Local Delicacy.
In the manga, after the destruction of the cities, the alien would pick up people and wash them and gut those like pigs in the slaughter house, then sold them in their Mall in the mothership as food.
Then they would gather a big portion and then put those humans into a cage like animals so they can breed like we do with pigs.
Remember, to those who think they are superior, the lesser beings are nothing but animals, we have so many cases like that throughout history.
@Anonymous User But those lower life-form don't travel on spaceship or have theirs own civilians.
I guess it's how you define civilization level that is acceptable to perform experiment or not.
Federation is pretty low, back to the Stone Age or Tribe as shown in the movie "Into the Darkness".
@Anonymous User The Q did it, so the more advance a species become, the higher standard they consider others as "Sentient" I guess.
@@Mopsie I admit. This is true. Animal testing needs to stop now. Also, I know that there are very successful meat growing technologies that are in play.
Sorry, these labrats are fighting back, classic line from Captain Janeway
I do not understand how making Neelix smell like a milean has any medical benefits it just seems like they are toying with him🤣🤣🤣
yeah, the whole argument is great and all, but since they specifically chose to experiment on a foreign starship and not their own citizens they pretty much know what they are doing isnt ethical
If they consider their species to be inferior why not? It might just be easier to do it with them or yield different results
It's an act of war. Only thing here is, they don't expect Voyager to be capable of fighting back.
Would you consider experimenting on a rat declearing war on rats?
If they were sentient, had a sovereign nation, and my actions had been sanctioned by mine, yes.
Sentient by which standards and a nation by what definition?
Loved this episode. The actress that played as the "scientist" was fantastic at playing her in a kind of eery cold but "nice" emotion that played to her character's ego and self righteousness.
linkeffect82 I agree. Her character name was Alzan. Just a bit of trivia fun
linkeffect82 I wanted to see Janeway beat the holy hell out of that alien...where's Kirk with his punch-an-alien-in-the-face diplomacy?haha
Denise Herud she did even better than that. She destroyed 1 of the 2 alien vessels that were attempting to disengage from Voyager in the final scene
Denise Herud it wouldn't have done anything.
Yes she reminds me of the Borg queen.
One of the best episodes of Voyager. It had everything: suspense, social criticism, action and fun. Perfect episode with a brilliant Janeway.
And the way it came to be, Kate Mulgrew quits tobacco and probably goes to the studio that week angry, cranky, and pissed off at everything maybe a bit embarrassed, but the writers go “Caterina Cara Mia” (I am trying to make it sound like the DaVinci holo program) and craft out a story around angry pissed off, tired Janeway getting driven mad by the experiments
Janeway hitting fk it is my favorite trek scene ever
This was such a great episode. The flaw in the scientific method is the appeal to greed. The lure of information about objective reality can often be tempting and that makes some scientists willing to ignore suffering to obtain that information in their experiments.
The scientific method prioritizes getting repeatable results, not a lack of suffering. Greed is a moral failing. But greed is just a fact of life for a race like the Farengi. Morality and ethical behavior are culturally determined. This isn't a conflict where one side is right and the other is wrong. It's a conflict where neither side can yield anything to the other. Their behaviors are dictated by their cultures because their cultures have reinforced specific values in their belief systems. They can't compromise if they can't change. And they can't change the things that define them.
I love Kate Mulgrew, such a great actress!
Absolutely. All those trekkies who complain about her seem to always overlook her impeccable performance.
I think they complain about Janeway being inconsistent, but I rarely see them complain about Mulgrew.
The problem with Janeway is it seems different writers had different ideas about how to write her and didnt care about consistency, so at times Janeway can come across as contradictory and hypocritical. Still if you look at the character and dont judge her based on a few poorly written episodes, Janeway was still an admirable captain.
Fun fact: She quit smoking right before filming this episode. I'm not sure she was acting. :P
The Bionic Woman, Lindsay Wagner was offered the role and she declined. Then Canadian actress, Genevieve Bujold was cast and she bailed out after 5 weeks of filming!!!!
We saw Bujold’s clips and man is she boring. Mulgrew works and her high pitch voice is unique and gives the character a flare and in certain circumstances a attitude!
Kate's birthday is 29 April 1955 and mine's 29 April 1965 so each year I raise a glass and wish her happy birthday!
Anyone hear a slight tremble in her voice? Poor Janeway was on the verge of breaking down. Imagine what would have happened if it went on for another day or two?
There were plenty of other shadowy, super-evolved aliens who've used a Starfleet crew as lab rats, but they were typically quite inhuman in their looks and behavior. These aliens though were the scariest of them all, because they looked and comported themselves like Federation scientists. Their calm, kindly-voiced, but sociopathic "bedside manners" and very human-like appearance made them quite unnerving. It's a shame they never reappeared.
There was nothing kind about them. They were openly hostile and arrogant. They just did it in a more civilized way rather than the typical uncloth antongonist/villain type way. They came off like "Friends" fans. Arrogant and smug. The only thing they had that I agree with you on is human and plausible motives.
These types seemed to be modeled after what I call the WGN type of bigots. And I'm starting to think this show bashed The WB. Lol and something about this just lets me know that Warner Bros. agrees with me as do countless others lol that UPN had more in common with Warner Bros.. A WGN bigot is basically my slang term for one of those (who like the uncloth types are Allied, "Friends"-watching "Seinfeld"-hating) neutral American accented bigots like those from Chicago who instead of being the old school uncloth bigots tend to be the type that when questioned about their cruel actions or racism, say, "Decline to comment" to show they really believe that but that they're too civilized to openly boast about it cause they believe in being orderly lol.
Since this is a typical black show, they made it seem that they deny it. If this were "TNG" or "The Sentinel" or the "Lethal Weapon" movies, the antagonists/villains would not deny it lol. As white people wouldn't do, being part Hispanic.
Sounds like you DO agree with the person. Maybe you need to reread what the person said.@@robjackson5245
I’d hardly compare them to Starfleet scientists. You can hear the uncaring callousness in this woman’s voice.
The Actress who plays the alien , is really good .
It was vindicating seeing one of their ships get blown up at the end of this episode, and all because they tested Janeway's nerve too much.
A good episode. Janeway's solution was both risky and brilliant.
Her reaction was the same as Picard's in the episode, 'Where Silence Has Lease' or to Riker's in, 'The Best of Both Worlds 2.' It's a courageous and commendable reaction to an impossible situation of torment, slavery and psychopathy. If you've ever been tortured and are a truly brave individual, you would probably do the same thing.
"You're exaggerating!"
"Alright, let's put you through some stuff of our own, after all, I'm a scientist too, right? We need data as well"
1:42 Janeway measuring alien for a coffin
best comment
Excellent acting! Both actresses played their roles well. Cold and direct..
agreed
I must give Janeway the moral high-ground here. I'd fight them too, scientific research or not. Great episode, greatly acted out.
they wanted to test Janeway under stress? They deserve her reaction! Great!
And she goes full Sisko on them.
if they wanted to test her under stress they should take away her coffee
"There's the right way, the wrong way, and the Janeway."
this whole episode was proof why janeway was the most bad ass captain ever.
I'd say she's either 'bad' or 'ass', but not the two combined
As if the episode where she channeled Ripley from aliens while fighting ginormous viruses with a phaser rifle wasn't proof enough
"I never knew you thought of me as reckless, Tuvok."
"My mistake, Captain. It was quite clearly an understatement."
btw, in the starfleet time period, animal testing, would be pretty much obsolete, not even from a morality perspective, just that we'd be able to simulate animals using holodeck-esque technology, animal farming will likewise be obsolete due to replicators being able to create meat
I almost completely agree with you, but from what I've seen, starfleet still does at a minimum tests to micro-organisms such as diseases or even larger organisms like plants that are replicated, or harvested, because computers have their own brand of unique errors when trying to predict the interactions between organisms and/or chemicals, especially unknown ones just encountered, so research with real organic matter are still important to this universe, just radically less so then in our real world and level of science/tech.
good points
Yes - good points you two.
Would it be morally acceptable to replicate and consume humans?
I would think advanced sentient beings which CAN be herbivores and even frugivores! Would not even THINK about eating another "sentient" being - replicated or NOT.
I think the carnists' adrenochrome addiction will have been long gone when humans reach a Type 1 Civilization...
That's what I've been saying about animal testing, in a sense. It makes zero sense to test on animals (The animals themselves, the food, labs, staff, etc etc) if there was a better way! This is no better way other than human experimentation (And we all know where that ends up). So between the two evils, which are we to do? (That's a general question to all, not just you Adam)
A logical response, but for the most part, perhaps holo-technology would provide for many testing scenarios. Computers would be far more advanced, yet still have their own unique technological problems.
The dialogue between Janeway and thay hostile alien woman was superb acting.
That's exactly what we do with our test animals. Only that they can't defend themselves, not even call for help. When you realize this situation, it's just horrible for our test animals.
But they're so yummy!
Animals aren't sapient, they aren't capable of civilization or ethics so their natural state is brutal anyway. Besides, we only experiment on them to save ourselves, these aliens didn't do it out self preservation which Janeway points out.
@@haitolawrence5986Yup. Especially the holy communion/ not only yummy but it gets you a free ride ticket to heaven.
back when star trek was good
It's still good.
@@jment34 New Star Trek starring with Enterprise sucks.
@@jment34 It is not
This is what happens if you mess with Captain Janeway
I love her line "These lab rats are fighting back!" So Janeway-esce.
Don't mess with her or she'll go Full Kathy on you.
_Star Trek: Voyager_ had a lot of _terrible_ ideas, but it also had a lot of _really_ good ones, and they include this episode. I mean _look_ at this race. They don't pop up _anywhere_ else in _Star Trek_ but you _love_ to _hate_ 'em.
"I don't like causing people to suffer, but sometimes it's a necessary part of my work."
Listen to how high and mighty she sounds. Listen to how smug. But of course you _know_ they know their research is unethical. That's why they're not conducting this research on their _own_ people and _that's_ the part that _really_ pisses you off!
"What kind of work is that?"
"Medical research. We're scientists, like you."
Not like them. _Absolutely_ not like them. When you _really_ identify with someone, you see them as _analogous_ to you and _refuse_ to justify any treatment of them that you refuse to subject _yourselves_ to.
"Our techniques are as _benign_ as we can make them."
An obvious lie. They could, of course, choose not to _conduct_ them. That would make them _much_ more benign.
"Please understand that there's a purpose to our actions."
Then conduct these experiments on your _own_ people. _They_ will understand, _surely._ See how much of them _you_ are prepared to tolerate.
"We're really more similar than you care to admit."
Something _protagonists_ never say.
"You're a _remarkably_ strong-willed individual. I've been very _impressed_ by your self-control over the past several weeks."
🤦 _Oh,_ well I'm sure her approval gives Janeway a _warm fuzzy!_
You see? There's that smugness again.
"If you make no further attempts to interfere, I assure you that the fatality rate will be minimal, though there may be some deformities. And I would be willing to share our final data with you."
😠😡😤🤬 Ohhhhh! The _gears grind!_
"You can't possibly expect me to accept that."
"If you don't, then the entire experiment and its subjects will be terminated."
So let's put this in more well known parlance. "If yous cooperate, we'll rough yous up a bit, bust a few kneecaps, break a few fingers and kill just a _few_ of yous, see? But if yous don't, you're all _dead,_ now. Capische?" I mean that's it. That's the long and short of what this woman just said, but with the kind of detached calm that made it _so galling!_
I always like to imagine how the other captains would have reacted to this alien. And the one i want to see most is Sisko
This species is advanced enough to develop stealth technology that allows them to be literally invisible, but for some bizarre reason not advanced enough to conduct experiments on humans without poking and prodding them with primitive tools. How about some type of bioscanner that allows you to understand the workings of human physiology down to the cellular level
All very true, but at some point technological overspecialization comes into play, as well as a kind of tunnel vision. All that effort put into stealth tech could have gone into developing Vidiian levels of medical tech, but they were so busy protecting themselves from potential backlash from their "subjects" that it never even occurred to them to try developing harmless research tech.
Scans can only tell so much
They tried that, but the subjects' heads kept exploding.
Waw that sounds realistic
They developed those technologies so that they could process experiments on sentient life safely. It's no different than our own Military Industrial Complex developing stealth technology to swoop in and take another country's resources. Also they are not merely invisible they are intangible they are phased out of our space.
Rosemary Forsythe as the alien is one of the two greatest performances ever. The other is Gladys Cooper in the Twilight Zone episode Nothing in the Dark.
Velma Velvet OMG Thank you Thank you Thank you for saying that about Rosemary Forsythe. I agree completely. I found this scene to be uniquely compelling from the first time I saw it. So much so that I now have the entire scene memorized word for word.
I will check out the Twilight Zone episode you mentioned.
The Twilight Zone episode also stars Robert Redford when he was in his 20s.
I think she was also on Days of Our Lives where she played a psychiatrist that's why she looked familiar to me
Was I the only one who was expecting to hear some weird animal sound thrown into the clip?
Stark Trek triumphs again in using "entertainment" to get as all to think further about the big moral questions of our times. This episode was well written and the character of the "scientist" well played in that she appears calm and rational and talks to Janeway as if she expects her to come on board with the aliens actions being a "fellow scientist". She seems genuinely suprised and a little disappointed that Janeway doesn't agree to go along with the experiments once she is aware of them. One of the more cleverly written episodes of Season 3
Mr. Stark trek I don't feel so good.......
First she says that the experiments are benign, then she says that the fatality rates will be minimal but there will be some deformities.
She says "our techniques are as benign AS WE CAN MAKE THEM", implying that there's only so much they're willing or able to do to ensure the well being of their subjects. Any deformities or fatalities are sometimes just a necessary part of the work. They might alter or tweek an experiment to lessen the suffering or the death toll, but they're not going to stop doing the experiment altogether.
This is when Voyager is actually good not boring. In the unknown, I wanted the Voyager crew to face the unknown and with negative outcomes which was the challenge that Brannon Braga refuse to explore.
This one episode is when Braga is not involve and we finally see Janeway becoming more like Ellen Ripley.
Me if i was janeway: Computer cut all life support from the cell an erect a level 9 barrier Her: what you doin Me: oh a experiment see how much you can live with out life support
An amazing episode on many fronts!
Jeff Hallam Agreed. Probably my favorite of all time. I have this scene memorized word for word!
This kind of mentality is a great way of finding new enemies. One day, they would run into someone who's capabilities they underestimate, and who have the mentality of klingons. Would that be a sight to behold, their entire species getting their comeuppance.
This sounds EXACTLY like the arguments of the Big Pharma executives. Chilling. ha.
Oh look another Covid conspiracy theorist
@@kyotosinfinity5959 Their comment was made before the covid pandemic even happened.
@@enclavesoldier2435 it was a joke
@@kyotosinfinity5959 / Woosh
@@enclavesoldier2435 yeah it did go right over your head didn’t it haha
The aliens fail to realize that harming sentient life forms such as humans to forward their scientific agenda is immoral to us. They don't take our feelings into account, even though they fully know we can convey to them "Please stop."
In the same way, we fail to realize that harming sentient life forms on earth to forward a scientific agenda would be considered immoral to any outside observer.
+meerkat1954 *The* problem lies in communication. It's much easier to emotionally distance yourself from that which is foreign if you cannot communicate with them and share similarities such as empathy. If edible animals in our world could do this, we probably wouldn't kill them for food.
Janeway and her crew is sentient, so are the aliens. They could communicate with each other. That's the difference. The aliens just choose to disregard the humans sentience in order to further their own interests, regardless of the costs. It'd be as if we humans conducted medical trials and experiments on people against their will. It'd be unacceptable.
Also the Aliens had turned the Voyager in a kind of a Concentration Camp. Back in Nazi days people were not only gased there, lots of absolutly unhuman experiments were done there also.
This always happens. I watch one of these clips and immediately need to find the episode and watch it.❤
I'm surprised we never learned more about this species. Even the Malon gave some background about their culture. I would like to have seen Janeway take it to the extreme to stop them.
This could be happening on you right now.
That headache that has lasted a few days.
That pain in your foot.
And other niggles...
I know the reasons, complete control over crew, but it would be a cool experiment to see “Is your life worth saving?” and proceed to torture this creature? Maybe keep firing more and more phasers into the area and getting closer saying they can depressurize the cell at any time and this is a test for her ability to handle stress. Maybe use plasma to see how she handles burns.
Sweet dreams are made of this, who am I to disagree...
Captain, throw it out the airlock.
Danny Boi Any further attempt by Janeway or the crew to intervene would result in the entire experiment and its subjects being terminated. The aliens had complete control over the crew through the genetic tags. There’s no way Janeway could have ever laid a hand on her. So she took control back in the only way possible, and it was both effective and brilliant
teeth6556 You miss the reference.
Danny Boi And what reference is that?
Mass Effect.
Danny Boi I’m still not following. Plz clarify.
Never piss off Captain Kathryn Janeway she will win everytime
I love this scene and this whole episode. "... though there may be some deformities" LOL! :-D
I wonder if the borg have encountered these aliens. And if they did I hope they assimilated them since these aliens are a bunch of sadistic !@$%&*!#.
These aliens aren't sadists; they don't derive pleasure from the suffering of others. The work they do is, as she says, for the medical betterment of millions. It's humanitarian and utilitarian. To them, the deaths of a few aliens are worth the potential to improve millions of lives.
If we could cure cancer- thereby sparing the suffering of millions - by subjecting a few hundred creatures to great torment, isn't it worth it? That is the question being posed by the aliens.
monokhem when you say F up do you mean conquer or a waste of resources?
@monokhem Given that 7 of 9 could see them i think you're probably very wrong in that assumption...
@monokhem Janeway only has that option because she's not in possession of any knowledge on how to access the dimension these aliens hide in. She can't get to them, she had to make them leave by their choice. Given the Borg are well versed in transwarp and other interdimensional travel and are far more technologically developed than Starfleet I think they would stand a far better chance of doing something about it.
@monokhem not necessarily true, if they determined that the technology these aliens possess in order to do what they do might be of particular usefulness they may well act almost straight away. Although I do agree with the point about them not being concerned about losing a few drones
THIS IS WHY I LIKE JANEWAY
I Remember this part
Janeway is one of my heroes !! When I die I want to go to a starship !!
aw man, I totally forgot what she does in response.... :D I wanna see this episode now.
I really wanted them to come back to this species. Perhaps to bring the wraith of the federation upon them or something.
0:00 to 0:09 Silence of the Lambs shout-out.
There is only two reasons for harming a animal or killing a animal
1 self defense
2 for food
Harming or killing a animal for the purpose of fun or sport is not ethical or right...
You forgot about population control. There are many invasive species that are causing other native species to go endangered. Seeing as humans were the ones that introduced these invasive species, it is our responsibility to protect the native species by controlling the invasive ones.
pat Newland not like I care about your viewpoint
Pat, do you own any belts made out of leather?
There's a such thing as synthetic leather.
i appologize if this sounds argumentative, i assure you im not trying to be antagonistic but i would like to ask if you consider the idea of killing an animal for usable resources such as pelts, furs, bones and hides to make clothing or other essential tools an ethical reason to kill another animal?
what season is this
So then she flew them into a sun.
Classic Jameway move.
I just could never get behind Janeway being a hero
Got us an active PETA supporter here lol love this episode tho.
This is one of my favourite episodes of Voyager. Like Janeway will do everything in her power to escape an experiment, I'll do anything to avoid pharma diagnostic and vaccines medicates. I decide what goes in my body - no government or private company has the right! ;-)
I wish the final confrontation on the bridge had been with this particular alien so Janeway could have really stuck it to her smug face. I dont remember exactly the details of the episode and why it was another alien in that scene.
The Srivani should be happy that Janeway no longer had the Tri-Cobalt Torpedoes...or that they weren't dealing Sisko.
This lady played Adrian Monk’s mother-in-law in “Monk”.
Question... During the captains interview of the scientist in the brig, am I the only one who wanted to see Janeway bitch-slap the tar out of that smug scientist? 😁
What kind of freaking protocol is that?!
VOLightPortal It would be the kind of protocol put in place to maintain a controlled environment/experiment and avoid any interaction which could result in empathy with their subjects and possibly skew the data.
Similar is done in drug trials. You won't know if you're on the placebo or the drug. They won't tell you because it may affect the results.
And if there is a problem during testing you kill all the subjects?
Art imitating Life = Brilliance !!
Who's the actress playing the alien becuase her voice sounds really familiar but I can't find her name on any lists?
Voyages was pretty fun... Great respect to the original and TNG, but I'm one of the weirdos that loves DS9..... I love voyager because they got thrown into the unknown... Loved DS9 as a space station and not knowing the other side of the worm hole thing... What goes in and what goes out.
If animals had a voice, they wouldn't be food animals because they would be sapient beings. Some would say sentient, but sentience is the ability to feel, not the ability to reason, therefore all conscious animals are sentient. If they were capable of reasoning conversation, no one with an ounce of empathy would even consider them food.
Yep. Not to mention that without animal testing modern medicine would be all but nonexistent..
You could make the same argument for war though. How many medical advances do we have now because we had to figure out how to patch up the soldiers or civilians that weren't killed outright?
Have you ever considered the fact that animals ARE capable of conversation, it's just that humans are too stupid to understand what they're saying when they scream out in pain as we experiment on them?
meerkat1954 Animals are capable of feeling pain. Intelligent conversation is beyond them. I'm speaking of dogs, cats, monkeys, etc. I think dolphins and some whales are capable of intelligent conversation if we could only learn their language. And for that reason, I think it is wrong to experiment on such animals.
meerkat1954 Well they don't have a full language, nearly all animals can't communicate conceptual information, and literally everything feels pain. What's mire likely is that animals aren't sentient enough to reach that level of function and that emotions and pain are like data to a computer.
Alien: Then the entire experiment and its subjects will be terminated.
Janeway: Janeway to Seven. Yes, the Sisko Maneuver.
Rosemary Forsyth's performance could not be more perfect.
I would torture the hell out of that alien
Talking to you in outside of my protocol.
Well having my crew experimented on is out of Star Fleet protocol. So . . . Looks like we are both coloring outside the lines.
I swear, the Delta quadrant had an inordinate number of abhorrent species and cultures. I hope the Federation and their Klingon allies pay them all a visit in the future......
"Regardless, we now know of the existence of your species, and how to imprison you. Please bare that in mind..." ~Jean Luc Picard.
How great would it be for Admiral Janeway to show up with a fleet to put a stop to attacks like the one in this video.
Research is required to advance medical science. But it is only to be done after a brief of the research is sent to an ethics committee for approval. The committee will probably require some adjustments. They want the research project to be:
. Safe
. Ethical
. Relevant
. The results have to be reproduced
Participants must be given a full brief of the research that they'll participating in; what it is,the purpose, the risks involved, how much time is required for the research etc. After this,potential participants can decide whether or not to proceed or they may have a physical or mental health condition that means researchers have to remove them from the project.
What this species was doing would be considered dangerous and unethical; they had no history on their participants,no consent the research would be disallowed due to it's unethical nature.
So I guess it’s on.
it is obvious lives on the voyager has decent intellect and are communicatable, diplomatic.
Why the far-advanced alien don't know ethics ?
Did the alien skipped Ethics class , but rush into Chemistry and Physics ?
They are nazis, maybe?
This is the greatest scene in all of Star Trek-dom.....imho
Animals do have a voice. Humans.
I like cartoons too!
@@haitolawrence5986 what?
If that's the way it's got to be...
When I ear the scientist's "excuse", my brain shouts "Dr Halsey!!!"...I wonder why...
Oh..."the ends justify the means" usual bs...right...
"NOT MUCH!" Love it!
If you want to get technical, the crew of Voyager are the aliens. Alpha Quadrant to Delta Quadrant! Neelix & Kess are the only 2 from that Quadrant!
They always omit the most obvious arguments in these shows. I wonder if it's intentional.
Janeway is my spirit guide.
this aliens must conduct experiment to the borg.hahaha
she played the part of ray barones wifes sister on everybody loves ray took me a while to figuer it out
Would've been a lot more epic if voyager had a male captain.
Even their ships were attached to voyager like transient entities - just like the renaissance painting of Raphael the archangel shows the blue ethereal smoke under him and by his crown
This is the one thing I consistently don't like about Star Trek. The absolute, all out, zero tolerance NEEEEEEEEEEED for one side to be morally superior. DS9 came closest to ethical ambiguity being an accepted idea, but even it never got closer than "well, I guess the bad guys aren't all bad, and we aren't all good."
It's arguments like this, where they can't just assert events as they are perceived and be done with it. no no no..someone has to be a victim, and someone has to be an evil oppressive force. No room to just say "We disagree. Have at thee." It has to be "I'm right, and you're bad."
The current liberal, nanny state, Neo-socialist political ideaology is on full display in most episodes. Californian Progressives, wanting a Communist Utopia.
Republicans (some) are the same way!
_yes captain janeway you had just_the animalls had a good thought and proper language_archaicxn lord
Let me conduct my own experiment, how much energy could your alien cranium take from a phaser set on the lowest setting but continuously fired until the power cell runs empty?
kuribo1 Any further attempt by Janeway or the crew to intervene would result in the entire experiment and its subjects being terminated. The aliens had complete control over the crew through the genetic tags. There’s no way Janeway could have ever laid a hand on her. So she took control back in the only way possible, and it was both effective and brilliant
It would be called the world wide web
This is a very cleverly concealed take on animal testing. Imagine that Janeway is the lab rat and the alien is one of us... The tables are turned.
I wonder how animal testing labs reacted to this episode....
JW3HH
Really? I think it's quite obvious.
Yeah, I suppose so. But it's funny how Star Trek over the years could get away with telling moral lessons relevant to our time without spelling it out (racism, rape, etc). I wonder if PETA ever used this episode in their campaigns?
JW3HH
JustWasted3HoursHere
Yeah.. maybe, probably not, I think. Back in the day... this might have been a bit off the radar?? Or just about scientific experiments and not consumption, etc.
Filthy solipsistic Tards and the physical manifestation their psychosis ; corpses, money and government.
yOUR Symbiotic Future self REJECTS THEM.
Their are Consequences for ignoring the LAW Of Correspondence, and IT ignores ignorance.
It's never a good idea to post TH-cam comments when you're off of your medication, 124bel875ive.
JW3HH
Similar situation was with Enterprise
silence has no lease.
Perfect.
Kate had quit smoking during the filming of this episode.
I hope that one day humankind will just reach that level of understanding as it did to my self a long time ago for the love of God and its gift of life.
I has sleep apnea for 2 years and felt the same way Janeway was that entire time. I wishes that my suffering could have been used to help millions. For Janeway to say staying awake for over 3 days to help millions is ok in my opinion.
Maybe. But the arrogant Mengele this alien "researcher" is shall not be tolerated. Of course, let me present an analogy, Nazi unhuman research is now vastly used in modern medicine. We accept it as a happened event, yes. It does not mean we approve it. Moreover, captain Janeway is a captain. It means that she is responsible for an amount of lifes under her command, even before her own life. And when this Mengele woman says, as Janeway and we receive it: "We will torture your crew for the next week or two with all the sadism We've got, some of them may even die, but that's alright, get along with it. Console yourselves with the fact that We may share something with you. Consider it a gift of Our benevolence and be grateful to those who are higher than you." (and there is something on the periphery of hearing in addition: "As you untermenschen shall"). Considering myself a part of Jewish people I cannot refer to this unhuman, unethical, un-anything sadistic torment as anything good. I understand your condition wery well, but this "you shall be grateful" rhetorics give me nothing but pure, distilled hate.
And do you know what is the worst part? They - I refer, of course, to these Mengele aliens - will never listen to anything I have said above. Not only because we are untermenschen, equal for them to caddle, but additionally because they do not have ideas of ethicity and humanism in their thinking paradigm. The only way to communicate with them effectively is (cocks phaser rifle) the violent way. And this is the way we will always regret walking.
The arrogance lol. She talks about how the most important thing to Janeway is the welfare of her crew and how she'd even kill to defend them. THEN goes and threatens to kill them all, really seams like a very arrogant and stupid thing to do.
the title of this fucked me up. amazing.
Wait, isn’t serotonin responsible for triggering the aggressive impulse?
Not exactly. Serotonin is more inclined to make a person more energetic, sleep better and have a healthy or increased appetite, amongst other things. Too much serotonin can in those with either a mechanical hardwiring or emotional instability disorder to be liable to increased aggression, but that comes with more energy usually and not a factor directly responsible for aggression. Interesting note aside, around 60-70% of all serotonin in the human body is in the gastrointestinal tract and stomach. Hence the more recent trends to eat fermented food, fibre and healthy bacteria etc.
Dopamine is an interesting chemical. Dopamine often causes aggression but through too high a dose. Illegal drugs such a cocaine flood the brain with dopamine, amongst other chemicals. Dopamine lowers inhibition making some people less inclined to act rational and that can lead to a feeling of invincibility and elation that can cause aggressive actions, again, amongst other things.
If anything they'd have been better off pumping up the norepinephrine levels as that chemical that can lead to aggression and/or anxiety. Running on fumes with little to no sleep, not eating well and constantly harried and stressed can be a side effect of some norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors that doctors prescribe.
Essentially, to finish. The scientists would probably have to boost them all or some to higher levels and switch them around. I think dopamine was used as at the time it was associated with street drugs and thus violent tendencies etc. But in truth messing with serotonin, dopamine or norepinephrine levels will more than likely cause anybody to lose their minds over an extended period of time. Add to that the invisible devices they had drilled into Janeway's skull at the time.
PierreShark Damb u know ur science