The ORIGINS of the Proto Indo Europeans: Who were they?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
- Who were the Proto Indo Europeans? And how do we know this? In this video, I go through updated information, maps of migrations, and talk about the key aspects that allow us to understand who the Proto Indo Europeans were, where they migrated to, and the resultant cultures, peoples, and languages. I also touch on the Indo European Creation Myth, which my next video will take a deep dive into.
ERROR: I mistaken suggest that everyone has a bit of the three DNA groups, this isn't strictly true with Tuscan/Spanish sometimes missing Hunter Gatherer DNA
Become a Patreon: / crecganford
Or consider a one-off donation via Paypal: www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted...
Bibliography
Use of maps from indo-european.eu/ is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
Reich, D. (2018) ‘Ancient DNA Suggests Steppe Migrations Spread Indo-European Languages 1’, 162(1), pp. 39-55. Available at: www.amphilsoc.org/sites/defau....
Lincoln, B. (2016) ‘The Indo-European Cattle-Raiding Myth Source : History of Religions , Vol . 16 , No . 1 ( Aug ., 1976 ), pp . 42-65 Published by : The University of Chicago Press’, 16(1), pp. 42-65.
Pagel, M. et al. (2013) ‘Ultraconserved words point to deep language ancestry across Eurasia’, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 110(21), pp. 8471-8476. doi: 10.1073/pnas.1218726110.
Anthony, D. W. (2010) The horse, the wheel, and language: How Bronze-Age riders from the Eurasian steppes shaped the modern world, The Horse, the Wheel, and Language: How Bronze-Age Riders from the Eurasian Steppes Shaped the Modern World. Princeton University Press. doi: 10.5860/choice.45-6255.
Lazaridis, I., Patterson, N., Mittnik, A., Renaud, G., Mallick, S., Kirsanow, K., Sudmant, P. H., Schraiber, J. G., Castellano, S., Lipson, M., Berger, B., Economou, C., Bollongino, R., Fu, Q., Bos, K. I., Nordenfelt, S., Li, H., de Filippo, C., Prüfer, K., Sawyer, S., … Krause, J. (2014). Ancient human genomes suggest three ancestral populations for present-day Europeans. Nature, 513(7518), 409-413. doi.org/10.1038/nature13673
Haak W, Lazaridis I, Patterson N, Rohland N, Mallick S, Llamas B, Brandt G, Nordenfelt S, Harney E, Stewardson K, Fu Q, Mittnik A, Bánffy E, Economou C, Francken M, Friederich S, Pena RG, Hallgren F, Khartanovich V, Khokhlov A, Kunst M, Kuznetsov P, Meller H, Mochalov O, Moiseyev V, Nicklisch N, Pichler SL, Risch R, Rojo Guerra MA, Roth C, Szécsényi-Nagy A, Wahl J, Meyer M, Krause J, Brown D, Anthony D, Cooper A, Alt KW, Reich D. Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe. Nature. 2015 Jun 11;522(7555):207-11. doi: 10.1038/nature14317. Epub 2015 Mar 2. PMID: 25731166; PMCID: PMC5048219.
Quiles, Carlos. 2019. A Game of Clans, Independently Published, ISBN 1072003228
Quiles, Carlos. 2019. A Clash of Chiefs, Independently Published, ISBN 1072023539
Quiles, Carlos. 2019. A Storm of Words, Independently Published, ISBN 1072035294
Chapters
=========================
0:00 Introduction
1:20 What does being Proto Indo European mean?
4:25 The DNA of Indo Europeans
8:40 Tracing back a myth
12:40 Maps of Migration, Language and Culture
21:02 The Language, and God
26:10 Summary
As always, thanks for watching, and please ask as many questions as you have, and I'll do my best to answer them all.
Please do one on indo european india
@@ajithsidhu7183 I will get there, and have just managed to get hold of a few books that will specifically help me. So that is one of my next big projects :)
@@Crecganford great looking forward to it
I've been watching the "Ancient Americas' channel. Both of you have similar content, but covering opposite sides of the world. I think a live stream discussion between the two of you would be a good thing.
@@the_mowron I've not heard of that channel, I will look it up. Thank you :)
Thank you so much for the video. I learned quite a bit. I am Persian and when I learned English in French I realized there is so much similarities . So much that I could memorize words so much easier because they sounded similar to what we say in Persian for example in Persian we say “shukar” and in English it is sugar which sounds very similar. There is hundreds and hundreds like this. I wish you could talk more about the connection between Persian and western European languages.
Hi Soshiant, I tell stories that are known in Persia and Europe, but I rarely talk about language as it is not my areas of expertise. But knowing how similar the stories are is fascinating to me. Thank you for watching and commenting :)
@@Crecganford thank you for getting back to me and thank you again for your great videos 🙏🏻😊
By the way , I know a lot about Irāniān history if you’re interested in having a chat about it.😊
@@susanmcdonald9088 hi Susan who is Brendon o'Connell? And how can I contact him?
@@susanmcdonald9088 nah, that's just a dumb conspiracy channel bordering on the antisemitic
I'll never get tired of thanking you for such great quality content you generously give us. You are such a great teacher!
Your channel is one gem in YT!
Thank you.
Great breakdown! Your detailed maps and linguistic examples provide a clear understanding of how Proto Indo European language and culture spread. Looking forward to the next video on the Creation Myth!
My practice during these videos is - as well as devouring amazing knowledge it contains - is googling titles in Jon's bookshelf to add to my reading list. Such an amazing collection!
I have posted a few pictures of some shelves you wouldn't normally see on the community pages of TH-cam. I will do a proper tour of them once I've moved and had a chance to tidy up my study.
@@Crecganford Aryan is a Sanskrit word, which means someone with high moral character.
Aryan is NOT a racial term.
Sanskrit originated in ancient India.
Rig Veda, the FIRST book written in Sanskrit, does NOT mention any place outside India.
Please do NOT confuse your readers.
An American
The Danish Bronze Age Sun Chariot, also known as the Trundholm Sun Chariot, is an iconic artifact from the Nordic Bronze Age. It was discovered in 1902 near Trundholm, Denmark, and dates back to approximately 1400 BCE. The Sun Chariot is considered one of the most remarkable examples of Scandinavian prehistoric art and craftsmanship.
The Sun Chariot consists of a bronze disc with a diameter of approximately 25 centimeters (10 inches), depicting a stylized sun or full moon. The disc is mounted on a bronze wagon, which has four wheels and an axle. The entire chariot measures around 60 centimeters (24 inches) in length.
Best explanation I have yet to find and spoken in a manner that expresses interest, importance, and clarity without monotone. Definitely held my interest and explained in a manner that I could follow. Thank you!
Thank you
You have no idea of how much it helped to be able to see the map as you explained everything. Subscribed!
Brilliant exposition! One can recognise the passion you have for the subject, and it makes it very engaging. Thank you and carry on. 👍
Absolutely Love These Videos - Thank-You For Sharing & To Your Patreon Supporters Who Make This Possible...
Thank you for watching and your kind words.
This is an absolute gem of a channel. Great research, sources provided and well presented. I've become a Patreon to support you and get more research information from you. Thank you for such a wonderful insight into these subjects.
Thank you so much for watching and your kind words. They are appreciated.
Wonderful video. It's rather difficult to find comprehensive videos on PIE related topics on TH-cam so I'm excited to have found your channel. As an aside, you have an endearing speaking voice 😁
Thank you for these videos! Thank you for the time you put into making them. I love stories and the stories behind stories. Your stories behind the stories go much deeper than I've seen before. I love it!!
Thank you so much for your kind words.
this is one of my absolute favorite channels on youtube 😍😍 fantastic lectures !!
Thank you for watching :)
I am so glad I found this channel!! Thank you for all your videos. It's very interesting
And thank you very much for watching, and for taking the time to leave a comment.
Awesome content 👌🏻 I love learning about our ancient history and languages. Keep up the great work.
Thank you for your support :)
I’ve just been gobbling up your content since finding your channel. I’ve been a lover of myths and the culture/psychology behind them for decades, and it’s so refreshing to find a channel that doesn’t just discuss myths (especially incredibly ancient myths) but the influences they had on our current mythos of the world.
It’s so fascinating to see roots in so many cultures and religions tying back to incredibly ancient beliefs. Like no joke when I realized ‘great flood’ myths could be connected to the end of the ice age from your videos I was floored. It makes so much sense!!!
Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment. I do like reading these and it is appreciated.
The most interesting video on the most fascinating topic by the nicest person, on the entire internet! Great work, look forward to digging deeper and learning more.
All hail the Skyfather!
Thank you so much for watching, and taking the time to leave a comment as well. It is appreciated.
Wow! I watch a lot on TH-cam about the period covered in this video and I can't believe that I have only just come across your channel, especially as I am already subscribed to several of your recommended channels.
This video was fascinating and very well presented, with things just getting better as it went on - everything from the joy of hearing someone say that they had provided full citations in the description box for further research to the use of maps throughout as a really helpful visual aid to the the narrative. And all presented with your wonderful book shelves behind you and watched over by the Venus of Willendorf - perfect!
I can't wait to dive in to the rest of your videos.
Thank you so much for watching, and your kind words. They are very much appreciated.
@@Crecganford Wow...I asked you a direct question over a day ago in reply to your own comment, but I guess you are not intellectually honest enough to answer or even acknowledge my question... What an intellectual coward you are.
I am glad I found out the truth BEFORE I wasted my time on your fatuous video...
And I called you an 'educator.' What a joke.
Your London accent (please correct me if I'm wrong) makes this intensely fascinating topic that much more charming. Excellent talk! You've earned yourself a new subscriber.
The new maps are quite helpful for visualising the migrations ... thanks!
The Best video on the topic i have ever seen. Love your content
Thank you
This is my jam!!! Thank you for the book resource! Loving these maps!!! I am so frustrated by the accepted theory the yamnaya were the original Indo Europeans, thank you for covering this. I just study language for fun, but I had pretty much that picture of the spread of IE languages. I have theories about P/Q Celtic languages! I’ll have to go back and see if you answer any of my questions in your videos! There are so many nuances between how culture spreads, and linguistic groups, so many what ifs. It drives me crazy but it’s fun to guess! And pray for more archeological finds!!’
Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment so well. It really is appreciated.
Remarkable clearly exposition 👍 the best I’ve seen, more essencial! Maps are quite extraordinary!
Thank you
You deserve much more recognition - you have my support & respect good sir
Thank you for your kind words.
Another excellent informative video my friend.well done
Thanks Hengist
I had already seen this but after rewatching realised i had missed so much information! Great video so interesting had me on the edge of my seat throughout
Thank you for watching it twice, and for taking the time to comment
@@Crecganfordonly out of India is possible I am really not interested in europens Russians or Iranians or todays central asians and we are native dravidians and I know indian hindhu culture is unique it has nothing to do with Europeans but 11 years ago a Hollywood film director who won an Oscar award nomination for making a science fiction movie called 6th sense published a report after his gentical study on thiyyas that thiyyas are came from central asia near thian sha mountains and their ancestors are indo sythrians suddenly the Indian government blocked thiyyar Wikipedia pages so I also thought he is making a propaganda or it's because of his infiriority complex I also didn't believe him but then some books also published here saying that thiyya worshipping of theyyam and their ancestors worshipping is loosely connected with anciant greek religion with buddhisam mixed with hindhuism and in india it is only present in a small pocket of kerala called north malabar and some of them may came from there and thiyyas more than 1000 year old oral folk songs clearly says they came from an island some people sed it is greece and some people sed it Sri Lanka so when I checked Sri Lankan history they clearly says it that thiyyas are indo sythrians and they called thiyya as deva people and some of them also done toddy taping thiyyas heavily practised kalaripayattu and ayurveda too thiyyas are the one who developed and spread the kalaripayattu in kerala if you believe in records not folk storys and thiyyas are the only Indian hindhu warrior caste which formed 3 European colonial nations army regiments with its own caste name that prooves it's a warrior section and all royal armys in kerala before Indian indipence had thiyya chgavar soldiers in their force and when I searched I seen an english documentary which shows once anciant Greeks also practiced medisin with Marshal art skills and they havily an ancestor worshiping tribe and they moved to fight with royal force in greece and thiyyas also practice ayurveda with kalaripayattu and still doing ancestor worshiping also then recently last month an Indian government institution lab called center for cellular science and molecular biology in Hyderabad published a report that thiyyas ancestors came from central asia and today they have 5-15% anciant central asian geans and rest is 70 natives and others so I again searched the linguistics similaritys of the thiyyas with their ancestors worshipping theyyam folk songs it clearly says that thiyya meens 'divyan' or divine man and they spread from 8 divine families in north kerala and the linguistics steady also clearly leads to tian Sha mountain areas but still most people don't belive this government also band all wiki pages of thiyya caste and their history to localise history more deeper may be it's an hypothesis theory like indo aryan invation theory by whites to claim hindhu history and vedas like this many out side tribe came here and assimilated with locals and their culture if a greek person able to give an answer it would be much better
The subtitles are a great help also because many of use are not native speakers, and text helps us follow along!
Addicted to your podcasts. 2 thumbs up!
Thank you.
The maps are excellent. It gives a sense of how terrain and trade helped guide migration. The lines of mountain ranges suggested by language division. Perhaps in a future video we can have a discussion of the influence of trade on language development. Well done I had to keep stopping the video to study the maps🥰
Yes, the number of factors affecting migration are many, and climate alongside geography are one of the main factors at this time. And this affects trade, integration, and cross culture migration of myth. Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment.
@@Crecganford I love history and my friends are sick of it. Lol.
Keep going homeboy! One day the mighty algorithm will toss you in the mix and these will blow up
Thank you
TH-cam suggested the video so i clicked on it and immediately check video details; i subscribed as soon as I saw the cited sources. Thanks!
Thank you for watching, and subscribing, it is appreciated. I do try and stay unbiased, academic, and explain things a bit deeper than other videos, and I’m pleased that suits you.
What a fantastic video. I'm here binge watching your entire content!
Thank you.
Subscribed due to quality I see here, and have come to look forward to, thanks to another couple of channels. I refer to History with Cy, excellent on Sumeria to Egypt, and especially The Study of Antiquity and the Middle Ages created by the late Nick Barksdale RIP.
These videos are very informative and interesting to listen to. Do you teach history or work in education in any way?
By the way, I love the intro
Yes I do :) But I like to keep my day job separate from the TH-cam channel
@@Crecganford Very lucky students ! 🤓
I csnnot even begin to say how very much I appreciate and derive deep value from your work. Bless you friend.
Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment. It is apprecited.
Thanks - especially helpful we’re the maps - I had bits and pieces from here and there but - you you are putting it all together for me - appreciative I am!
Thank you.
I’d be very interested to hear more about “sound splits” (like the one you mentioned at the end of this video) I’m studying speech pathology. 🥰
Awesome video. Thanks.
And thank you for watching it
Thank you, great and informative video:)
Fantastic video 👏👏
Very, very interesting. Thank you.
Thank you for watching and your feedback, it is appeciated
Wow, loved it. Subscribed!
Thank you
So glad I found this channel! You have an incredibly relaxing voice too :)
Thank you so much.
Thank for answering my demands! You give the best explanations on genetics mixing in Europe. 👌
You have a very choice library there! I want many of those books. Perhaps in a video you could recommend your favorites on this video’s subject, the PIEs/Yamnaya, their language, dispersal, culture and novel technologies. Thanks!
PS: I just ordered the very popular book “The Horse, the Wheel and Language”. I read “Guns, Germs and Steel”, it was interesting, but it is a badly-integrated and -edited repetitive collection of the author’s various papers on the subject. It kept repeating the same material over and over again. How I would to get out my science-editor pen for that one.
Yes, I’ve a number of people who have asked that, and so will be doing some book recommendations and reviews as soon as I can. But if you have a specific type of book you want to read, archaeology, cosmogony, language, culture etc, let me know and I can give you a couple of recommendations depending on the level you want to read… layperson to graduate. Thank you for watching and all the comments, it really helps support the video and channel :)
I am a Finnish who has studied English, Swedish and German. They are quite similar to each others, but my native language Finnish is totally different from these! Do you know anything about the Finnish language -families (fenno-ugric languages, Finnish, Estonian, Karelian, Saami, Hungary and other related languages) and how they are related to the other European languages and the Protocol Indo languages? I am a geneticist and Finnish people are genetically not different from the other people surrounding us, but the Finnish language is totally different from the other European languages. The explanation proposed is that the people who migrated here replaced the original inhabitants but at the same time absorbed their fenno-ugric language that was originally spoken here by the people. The theory is that maybe that language was so important in survival in this region and also the culture that was here that people were willing to adopt the language and culture even when genetically they were not different from the other people surrounding us.
Over all you my lad you have presented facts plain and concise. Fantastic presentation.
Thank you for watching, and you kind comment.
Thanks for providing us informative video
And thank you for watching
Thank you so much for this series :)
Social Anthropologist & Philosopher here....wondering what the relationships of the migrations you describe might be with the silk road traders (not sure when they began) & early GRT peoples?
Loving the linguistic & mythological breakdowns!
Look up the Oxus civilisation :)
Will do
Your work is *I N C R E D I B L E*
I request you keep providing us this knowledge.
I pray you never stop. Much love and thanks... From India 🇮🇳
Thank you for your kind words.
Thats false theres no such thing as indo iranian european whatever. All languages are descandants of sanskrit and the so called migration happened out of india not other way around. The lost indian clans who were expelled out of india conquered whole eurashia and spread hinduism which later became separate pagan religions in different places. Sky god dyauspitra and the thunder god Indra the king of gods became zeus, zupiter, thor etc. They worshiped danav/asuras etc and were known as malechcchas while the winning clan bharat worshiped devas.
@@prafful_sahusanghi
An absolutely fascinating look into the past...thank you!
What I like about your videos is that they are laid out similar to a college lecture
I'm fascinated with this topic, and specially, your channel!
Here in Brazil we use the saying "meu Deus do céu!", which literary translates to "my sky(heaven) father!".
"Céu" meaning sky or heaven, depending on context.
Of course, our usage of the expression is influenced by the Church and Christianity. But it's mind boggling to imagine it being used thousands of years ago, with the same intention!
thats dyauspitra the vedic hindu sky god. this migration actually happened out of india. this video is false. the sky god and god of thunder indra became deus, zeus, zupiter, thor etc in different pagan religions.
Great work I love the detail and effort to avoid commonly argued generalizations. I'm glad I found your channel and am excited to go through your existing catalog.
Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment. It is appreciated.
I really appreciate your content!
Thank you!
Yeah dude i subbed after seeing this video as an ad underneath a video i was watching about the Moors. So the advertising is working. Cheers!
Thats good to know, and thank you for watching and subbing. It is appreciated.
Great research! Greetings from Central Asian Persian 🇹🇯
Greetings, and thank you for watching
Very informative video on PIE people.
It's incredible having here a channel of someone that seems to be such an expert in the topic as you're. I love expanding my general knowledge in certain areas and all these origins of ancient civilizations, who they were, which one was their background and how other cultures and civilizations keep evolving from it is something I just love. It's probably not your area, but it would be amazing to see something about Turkic languages and your opinion of that supposedly existing Altaic language branch that is so discussed
Thank you for watching, and your comment. I will want to cover these in the future, although I cannot promise when that will be.
@@Crecganford Thank you for answering. No problem with when will you release it, it was just a suggest. Thank you for adding subtitles, even though I have no problem with English I could share the video with my father because of it.
Thanks for detailed explanations it cleared many of my questions
And thank you for watching.
Some videos about Natufians and PPNA would be amazing 😍
Bravo 👏🏽 Wonderfully done
Thank you, much appreciated.
Very interesting. Thankyou so much.
Super interesting!! Also, I see that Tolkien in the background and know immediately you're alright, mate! 😄
I do like Tolkien! Although my books do change around a bit depending on my studies and research. Thanks for watching and you’re support by taking the time to comment.
What a fantastic video. I'm a university lecturer in Physiology with a passing interest in anthropology as it pertains to the difference in adaptation to high altitude. I really enjoyed your presentation and style. One small thing to note is "basal". You're pronouncing it as "bah-sal". The etymology is from "base" so it's actually pronounced "bay-sal" as in basal metabolic rate. I hope that reaches you in the collegiate manner in which it was intended. Please keep up the good work so I can continue learning from you!
Watching from Philippines
I hope you make more videos like this one,very informative
Thank you for watching it
Great videos, keep it up!
I appreciate you kind words, thanks for watching
dude...this was awesome! Thank you. Do you ever do anything on Welsh history? Im only asking for a selfish reason, my ancestors are from wales! I really like your detailed but not boring explanations. You keep me listening! Thank you and keep rocking this!
So my last video on the British Creation Myth touches on some Welsh myth, as for the people I would love to do a video on this. I will add it to my list of videos to do. And thank you so much for your kind words, it is appreciated
@Black Lesbian Poet Evidence, please.
I want you to prove your claim.
21:21 In the Volga basin the form - the Tur, either Tura, or Tengri was used. Devi are small deities. Even though it's not IE - languages. Ati and Ani are dad and mom, but Babai and Abi are grandparents. Like Scythian Papai and Api. Deu" - big. You can say deu Ati, or deu Ani
Such a fascinating topic. I remember years ago thinking well, all we can really do is speculate on this stuff. But the picture pieced together through archeology and linguistics is so much bigger than I could have imagined.
Thank you for watching, and I hope you watch more of these videos, and please ask questions and I will try to answer them.
@@Crecganford I will be watching them all. And I very much appreciate your work. You make it easy to follow these interesting stories. Well done and thank you!
Thanks a lot! Great work!
Thank you for watching
Would love to see you touch on the Hyksos or Phoenicians, always wondered do they fall under the umbrella of Proto Indo Europeans. Also looked at David Reichs work especially regarding the waves of settlement into Britain, was shocked at how it correlates with the Lebor Gabála Érenn. What would be your view on their 'Sythian' claims and Goídel Glas creating the Goidelic (Gaelic) languages around this region? with the possible links with old Irish and Phoenician. Either way gained a sub, marvellous knowledge your channels a gem.
Thanks for watching and all the questions, although far too many to answer here, and the answers are somewhat complex. And so my answer is yes I'll put these on my list of videos to make :)
Phoenicians spoke an unambiguously Semitic language. For the Hyksos there is no linguistic corpus, except for their personal names, which also were Semitic. There conceivably could have been a Indo-European elite among the Hyksos, like there was for the Mitanni, but there is no evidence whatsoever for that.
@@ssir5927 I have a friend who studies early Semitic texts, and he's talked about how, if you know the very early forms of Hebrew that we have attestations to, you can very easily read a ton of stuff in Phoenician (which I find interesting, as that adds the various Afro-Asiatic writing systems, notably Hebrew, Arabic, Phoenician, and even the Ancient Egyptian heiroglyphs those are thought to be descended from, to the family tree of Indo-European languages through the fact that, while the spoken languages are largely unrelated, a link can be established from every major writing system used today by the European branch of the Indo European family to Ancient Egyptian. We often see the premodern world as very separated, with completely independent cultures, but that really reinforces how basically everywhere on Earth had some level of connection to other places (although some, such as between Eurasia and the Americas, were extremely limited before the start of colonialism and the early modern era, ie the fact that the indigenous populations of Alaska and Siberia had some degree of limited contact that never actually ended as we reached the current glacial minimum, as is commonly depicted.)
@@auroraourania7161 If you go back far enough all peoples end up related. Semitic and Ancient Egyptian languages can't be considered Indo-European just because Indo-Europeans use symbols derived from their own. Phoenicians (Greek exonym for the Canaanites) introduced their "Phonetic" "Alphabet" (Aleph = Ox, Bet = House) to the Greeks who still had to change it greatly, as Semitic languages have a very different relationship with vowels, as they basically do not matter to the meaning of a word. While in Indo-European languages they are very important and had to be incorporated into an expanded alphabet.
If you were to follow that line of association to it's conclusion you would end up with only two distinct groups encompassing all of the languages on Earth. Those using Middle-Eastern derived scripts, and those using Chinese derived scripts. There is nothing else left in todays world.
I’m rewatching this after having read David Anthony- 6:30 it seems like the Caucuses isn’t a good migration route, but the shoreline of the Black Sea leads right to the land of the Hittites…
Oh another history documentary channel out of the 20 I’m already subscribed to? Yeah I’ll take that any day. Glad I found this! I love love history especially ancient history and the mysteries about people who would’ve been ancient to say Ancient Mesopotamians and Egyptians of the 1st dynasty and so on
Awesome vídeo my friend
Thank you
Good video
Thank you
Top notch thorough and well explained work. Thank you. I very much appreciate your effort to outline opposing main theories. Can I ask what your background in this area is? Hobby, education, research, work?
I work for a university in London, although I have been asked to keep this work separate from them to avoid any confusion students may have, which is why I don't mention my job or title. My role has taken me through teaching, research, and development, and I started this channel a year or so ago due to the university going to a blended and then remote working model. And it became more popular than I imagined with so much positive feedback from other academics and independent researchers that I continued it. I'm pleased for found it interesting and if you have any questions I will answer what I can.
Thank you. I have lots of questions 🙂 I will check out your other videos and post the questions where they are most on topic.
In this video you mention Tyr. I know Tyr is an old god who's position in the pantheon was later overtaken by Odin (and Thor), but I am surprised to hear that the original form is that old. It makes me think the Viking mythology is much more closely related to the bronze age than I previously imagined.
@@steenharsted I will do a video on Tyr and the original Old Norse pantheon soon as it is a question I get asked about alot. I would suggest you would want to watch the woden odin origins video I made if you're interested in Old Norse gods. Odin's story is complex and fascinating.
Great lecture!
Thank you.
We learn more all the time!
Always have been interested in Tocharian and the Taklamakan Desert Mummies and their connection to us.
Yes, they are amazing, so incredibly preserved. If I get a chance I will do a video about them one day.
@@Crecganford Good. I read a book about them. It said their clothing was woven in a fashion used in western Europe, they wore plaids and some were over 6 feet tall with red hair. Tocharian is also supposed to be a centrum language, not a satem language. Very strange.
Thank you for the good video. More people deserve to see this. Several people I know who are interested in Greek or Latin weren’t even aware that both of those plus Sanskrit diverged from an earlier language. What we really mean when we say “Western Civilization” is the extended family of Indo-European cultures.
Yes, it is interesting when you see how we think it evolved, and allows you to ask many more questions.
Well Sanskrit and Avestan. From Europe in the west to India to the east we are all brothers.
@@descendedofrigvedicclans2216 we are.
@@descendedofrigvedicclans2216 We all have Indo European ancestors, we all speak a language from the Indo European family of languages and our gods( not Christian god) are also similar. So how are we not the same.
@@descendedofrigvedicclans2216 why deny genetics sciences and other linguistic studies, this theory has been proved multiple times. And which is more reliable, a religious text or a scientific study verified by multiple scientists.
Very interesting, thank you very much!
And thank you for watching.
Great channel.
Thank you
I'm a linguist/classicist, so I've got a bit of a basis in this and I've got to say that the genealogical tree for the IE languages that you showed has some things that don't entirely match what I've learned. I've literally never heard that Armenian and Greek would be so closely related, which seems strange considering I studied Ancient Greek and my Greek linguistics professor was specialised in historical linguistics and relations with other languages. So I suspect this link has a similar status as the existence of an Italoceltic language, which is highly disputed as far as I know. That Albanian would be a descendent of proto-Germanic also seems strange and unlikely to me, since it's an independent language branch and not a Germanic language, even if there might be some relation. Then again, I suppose any language tree is always a simplification of the spread of languages and there's never really a clean split off (except in sudden extreme geographic isolation, I suppose).
I’ve referred to my sources in the video and video description. These sources are updated on the internet on a regular basis, and I would hope this is based on the latest accepted research. Or that was my hope. Many thanks for taking the time to comment, it all helps me ensure my research is of the highest quality possible. Thank you.
@@Crecganford Yeah, I always check out some of your sources for even more details! The Armeno-Greek and Italoceltic hypotheses certainly exist, even if they're highly disputed and like I said, the tree might be a simplification. It's mostly the classification of Albanian that truly stupefies me. But thank you for your reply! It's only a minor detail in the context of the video and something I only noticed because of my specific background that's more focused on linguistics.
@@birthe9439 you are not the only one with the Albanian Issue :) it seems totally counter-intuitive and totally non-chronological. not to mention that counter-aural :)))
@@birthe9439 I agree too especially about the Albanian since I have done more studies on it.
If the italoceltic theory is wrong, what is the relevant working theory then?
TH-cam started showing me videos of your channel. I'm a simple man... when TH-cam shows me videos I like I hit that like bottom and subscribe ;-) Great video man
ps I liked it so much I liked it with my other TH-cam account aswell :D
Really appreciated, thank you
There is just so much to absorb here. Of course I can replay it but have you ever considered spreading out some of this...like doing 2 videos for every one you now do?
I have, and in fact the one video I did record I've split into 3 and this is the first part! I do liked going into more detail than other channels, andnso is very difficult to make a decent video of less than 30 minutes. I'm sorry that I can't do more to make it easier, but I hope you find time to watch it all, and the future videos.
That was quite interesting! I always vaguely wondered, how we knew anything at all about these ancient cultures. I never considered, that shared apsects of our languages could give us hints about what their generell lifestyle must have been like.
Does Jon or anyone else have any particular recommendations on the "development of violence between cultures in prehistory"? (with my assumption) that the development of small scale skirmishes led to larger scale warfare in line with the growing pastoral or agrarian societies spreading influences.
My thoughts are that perhaps with stored food and a populace tied to that inherent value, so this allowed for trade advantages essentially causing the spread language and it's ideas at a much quicker rate -with then larger scale warfare becoming feasible and married to the successes of some cultures. Perhaps this might have been shown in the content of belief structures taking on more violent themes? I'm thinking back to one of Jon's video now where there were three important heads in a particular cultures or groups of cultures myths. Like one dedicated to war if I remember correctly... perhaps suggesting divisions of thought by the separate characters, even their hierarchies. And the subject of their aggressions (with the old myths for example focusing on the hunt of a bear as opposed to less specific subjects as behaviours changed around cultural needs, and then generally human beliefs reflected more and more the successes of the successful cultures and their belief structures.
I think I may have to do a video on this too! :) The why PIE spread, and whilst specific conflict is hard to prove, we can show it happened. And there are a number of influences why, especially going from a hunter gather, to a settler lifestyle.
@@Crecganford very glad to help keep your catchphrase active and the Crecganford channel busy! :) looking forward to next video. Thanks
@@jmarsh5485 The amount I want to teach people I don't think it will ever go out of date! :)
I am an Indian and speak Bengali and Hindi and I find a lot of similarities in languages like Dutch, English,Hindi and Bengali and the similarities are countless
because sanskrit spread from india to europe throw migration,indians gave them knowledge
@@GyanTvAmityou got it in reverse lol
The PIE charts were very helpful.
another informative vid :)
And thank you for watching it
I’m of Indian descent. I remember from school, shirt in French is chemise, and in Punjabi is kameej.
Chemise in french comes from arabic al qamees
@@rohatalarengin1489lol funny actually he doesnt know that punjabi also borrowed many arabic word during mughal era .
I had originally learned that PIE began about 4,000 BCE, or 6,000 years ago. I didn’t realize the date had been pushed back to 6,000 BCE/8,000 years ago. Was the DNA evidence the key to this, or some other data? Thanks, if you can answer this question!
The maps I have in the video show this… most people associate PIE with the Yamnaya culture and that is where the dates you’re thinking of come from. But PIE is a language not a culture, and so cultures were before the Yamnaya speaking PIE. And we evidence this through stories and the language and motifs used in them, such as the Ferryman myth where we see motifs change with the PIE split between Centum and Satem divisions of the language. I touch on this in my Ferryman video which I think may interest you… it is here if you want to watch it: th-cam.com/video/7AArGLbIIFw/w-d-xo.html
I found the maps very useful, but it would have helped if you used pointers or circled areas on the map as the different areas were mentioned-I couldn’t find most of the areas before you moved on to the next. Also, maybe slow down a bit in the more “name heavy” parts-people need just a moment to recollect what a name means until it’s been used a dozen times or so. I thought the information was GREAT-many, many things I knew nothing at all about, so a great opportunity to learn new things. So much so that I liked and subscribed, but also I’m about to do something I almost NEVER do: I going to watch this video AGAIN! Kudos!
Thank you for watching, and the feedback, I will one day remake this video and ensure I do this.
I love this …. So interesting
In your analysis and history, the Rigvedic war of 10 Vedic kings can give more inputs in Indo European migration and cultures. .
Yes, I will talk about this time in history soon, and how it impacted the Vedic cultures. Thank you.
5:14 I've got two questions if you have the time Jon . I understand the conclusions for modern day europe but do the three leftmost dna groups include modern day indians (given the pie link are we counting these descendants as europeans) and modern day middle east countries (eg between egypt or at least Saudi arabia to persia)? Secondly, whats the significance of the eastern non-african dna group, going back alot further I thought our dna was all African with homo sapiens originating there? Apologies if this video or others cover it, so much information I'm need to process haha. Maybe these are very big questions that require me to do ALOT more reading and watching to understand... :/ haha
I think I understand question one now haha when you mention it at 8:17 with the pastoralist genes. Slowly building my understanding ☺
@@jmarsh5485 I will do a video covering the DNA more soon, as it can be confusing. Unfortunately a paper that was being written about the DNA of 7000 ancient people's became delayed due to the virus and the DNA work required for that. And I was hoping to use that. So perhaps I'll do a pre-paper video and one later. But please feel free to ask any other questions, and thanks for watching!
Thank you. Looking forward to see what you have in store for us next 👍
@@jmarsh5485 thank you for your support and I hope you have more questions to come!
Despite the PIE link, it would be very silly, imo, to consider the peoples of the Aryan migration into India as remotely European, both in that they existed before any sense of modern European culture existed, and due to the simple fact that the group that branched out into both is believed to have come from West Asia, rather than Europe. There is, of course, a relationship, as there is between all humans, but extending any modern ideas of continental and cultural boundaries this far back is a stretch. There was a cultural connection, but there is also a massive cultural connection between Europe and somewhere as far away as Indonesia, just due to the fact that modern European culture is heavily influenced by Christianity, which is a closely related religion to Islam, the most common religion in much of Indonesia. A lot of what we see as modern and historical European culture comes from the myths after they mixed with the indigenous mythologies of the Neolithic populations of Europe, rather than purely from the people who also moved into India.
Bravo! Love, from just a gal in the process of learning Latvian
great great video. have you written any books or articles of your own that you can share or make known to us? I´d LOVE to read them if so. I´m absolutely fascinanted with all of the topics you are addressing (I am still obsessed studying the Lion-man of theHohlenstein-Stadel cave could you revisit the story and help ellaborate on WHY did the make it? I have a few ideas of my own. Fear/awe of the lion- a man killer!- had to play a role there). Watchign your videos is like being in the Wall Mart of the things I want to talk and learn about. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and research!!!
I have a few papers, however next year I will be publishing my first in a series of books, and so I hope you find those of interest. They will cover Indo-European Mythology, and the older myths.