Dyeus: The Indo-European Sky Father
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 เม.ย. 2024
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In this video, we explore the Proto-Indo-European Sky Father. A deity revered by many cultures throughout history. From the Greek Zeus to the Roman Jupiter, the Sky Father god represented the celestial day-lit sky. Hosted by Dr. Andrew M. Henry.
Bibliography:
David Anthony, "The Horse, the Wheel, and Language," 2007.
Ranko Matasovic, "A Reader in Comparative Indo-European Religion," 2018.
Mallory and Adams, "The Oxford Introduction to Proto-Indo-European and the Proto-Indo-European World," 2006.
West, Indo-European Poetry and Myth, Oxford Press, 2007.
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Learning Jupiter came from Sky-Father rather than being an independent name really blew my mind.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyaus
Why will u think that?
Wait til u learn yhwh is the exact same sky father
Specifically, the word dzey-wois
I also had no idea, and it took me until reading your comment to consider how naming the largest planet in our solar system "Jupiter" makes a lot more sense knowing this
@@hominhmai5325 That's pseudoscientific, but go for it bud
As a geneticist, I want to point out that we now have access to a lot of valuable genetic data that can help answer these questions about the origin of the Proto-Indo-European (PIE) language. We don't have to rely on linguistic and cultural data alone anymore. For example, when considering the distribution of clades within the R1 hablogroup in modern humans as well as from DNA from preserved human remains, it is likely that the original speakers of the PIE formed after hunter gatherer populations from Eastern Europe mixed with hunter gatherers from the Caucus mountains. And given that important domesticated animals associated with the spread of Indo-European (IE) languages, such as horses, are grassland species that naturally inhabited steppe regions, such as the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, it is quite likely that the ancestral Indo-European culture formed in that region, where it eventually spread west into Europe and East into India and parts of the Middle East. From a genetic perspective, there was a westward migration into Europe from the East around 4,500 years ago, where many of the original inhabitants of Europe were mostly displaced by the new migrants, with some genetic mixing. These migrants are referred to as Western Steppe Herders (WSH), and most Europeans derive most of their ancestry from these people. Since the arrival of these WSH corresponds with the timing of the spread of Info-European languages into Europe, it is very likely that these WSH spoke the PIE language.
Also, the amount of loanwords shared between modern Indo-European and Uralic languages suggest that there was linguistic mixing between the early speakers of the two language families. And since the Uralic languages are distributed in the regions near the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, this is further support that the the Indo-European languages originated there, as opposed to further south in the Eastern Mediterranean.
In fact, genetic data shows that the peoples who lived in Europe before the WSH were agriculturalists who originated on the Islands of the Aegean Sea, referred to as Eastern European Farmers (EEF). So there definitely is good evidence for a migration of people into Europe from the Aegean, but those peoples were mostly displaced by the WSH, where most modern Europeans have more WSH ancestry than EEF ancestry, which suggests that it was the WSH who spread Indo-European languages, not these Aegean farmers. It is usually the language of the displacers that survives, not the peoples being displaced.
I personally believe that the Basque language is a descendent of the language spoken by the EEF. Not only is the Basque language not of Indo-European-European origin, the Basque people have the highest EEF DNA of all Europeans.
In summary, using genetic data to determine migration patterns into Europe, which correspond with the spread of languages, I think there were three major language families brought to Europe since the beginning of the Holocene:
There was an original migration of hunter gatherers into Europe after the end of the Ice Age (11,700 years ago). And those hunter gatherers probably spoke a family of language belonging to a language family that has no living representatives, because those hunter gatherers were then replaced by the Eastern European Farmers, who came from the Aegean a few thousand years after and spread agriculture into Europe. And then, the Western Steppe Herders, from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, spread into Europe some 4,500 years ago, bringing horses and mostly displacing the EEF and their languages. And it was the WSH who brought the Indo-European-European languages into Europe. I hope more research goes into determining whether Basque could be a descendant of the languages spoken by the EEF. I honestly don't know here else Basque could have come from, especially since the Basque people have so much EEF ancestry.
Interestingly enough, using the DNA from bodies buried around Stonehenge, we can see the major shifts in ancestry.
You wrote "hablogroup" instead of "haplogroup" which is a brilliant unintentional pun since "hablo" means "I speak" in Spanish, which brings us back to IE linguistics.
My knowledge of genetics and linguistics is admittedly quite minimal, but I do like to consider myself somewhat of an amateur historian, and I've developed quite an interest in these subjects as of late (especially the Yamnaya and corded ware, maykop, and Sintashta cultures). I think your basque theory sounds quite plausible given the DNA results, and I'd love to read more about it. Care to point me in the direction of some reading material? Preferably not too much of a heavy read, I don't really have the time to make a study out of it unfortunately ;-)
I think the Basque word for "knife" which is something like "aintz" is similar to the Basque word for stone, suggesting that the word was coined at a time when knives were made of stone, as opposed to Bronze.
@@stein1919 You're thinking of axe (aizkor) which roughly translates as "tough rock".
Edit: I'm not a linguist, I just happen to live in the Basque country
@@howlrichard1028 oh wow. very cool.
Dyus Pitr is directly mentioned in Rig Veda
And when we Hindus perform rituals we chant - Dyuas Shanti which means - the sky is peaceful
We are so lucky that we were not swallowed by Abrahamic religions
May thy sky remains in peace
@@indianboy59 how tf are you Hindu and have that emoji in your name
💩💩💩💩💩🚽
@@indianboy59 But you came from Northern Eurasian
Region, you and your culture is not belonged to civilised geographical region, not in Indian subcontinent, Middle East or Europe!
I remember reading a paper by an Irish scholar on similarities between Old Irish language and rituals and those of India. It was fascinating.
I think I may have read a similar paper....?
Link?
Link?
thank you for prioritizing historical contexts around religions and not just theology! your channel is an important reminder that both the past and present are richly nuanced
Nowadays, theology is all about historical context. Iconoclasm, monothelitism, Filioque, Donatism, and Monophysitism only make sense in a historical context.
Thankfully, most people are moving away from actually taking the delusions of religious nutjobs seriously
@@ferretyluv Not even close. Monotheism if something keeps proving to be a mere political stance, thanks to archaeology and history. That abrahamic mindset is incredibly alien to ancient religions, and that is incredibly noticeable studying stuff like the PIE religion and it's linguistic and cultural connections.
@@xiuhcoatl4830 Monotheism was essentially created as a result of political pressure. Forgive me for not remembering exact details, but at some point various places were told they could keep their independence under the empire as long as they all followed the same doctrine, which led to a whole bunch of council meetings and people compiling the lessons and beliefs of various peoples into a single self-coherent belief system with a single god. Studying any pre-Abrahamic theology leads one to a massive influx of revelations of literary theft.
@@SamuraiMasenko And you can look even before that, during the maccabee rebellion against the seleucids. One nation, one people, one god.
I would love to see a whole series on reconstructed Indo-European religion because it's so fascinating. One of my favourite examples is how we can be pretty sure that the Proto-Indo-Europeans lived inland because we know they had words for bodies of water but not specifically for the sea. Many sea gods from Indo-European mythologies had strange associations with things other than the sea (Poseidon was the god of horses and storms, Neptune was the god of springs) that suggest that they weren't originally worshipped as sea gods and only became associated with the sea after their peoples migrated to coastal areas.
Poseidon was also an underworld deity in our most ancient records of Greek gods, predating Hades' introduction to the pantheon
My understanding is that Poseidon is considered to be a break off from the sky father which is why the bull is one of his motifs.
I suggest checking out the channel Crecganford. He does exactly that for a lot of myths.
@@jaredlash5002 agreed.
Interesting. The vedic sea god Varuna is also the god of justice, truth and medicine. His name comes from the root vr - to bind. He carries a noose to bind the wicked and unrepentant sinners. Ouranos, the Greek god of the sea, also binds Cyclopes.
The Indo-Europeans were da real MVPs and OGs.
They were the killers
@redrose-gd8fu and yet here you are speaking their language
And?
@@redrose-gd8fu, all humans were killers back then.
I always wondered why the Spanish words dia (day) and Dio (god) were so similar! This is so interesting!
Dios with an s at the end but yes it makes sense
Day and deity are very similar in English.
Note that the word Dyeus is still being used in modern Romance languages for "God" - dios in Spanish, dio in Italian, dieu in French, deus in Portugese etc., as well as in other modern Indo-European languages - deity in English, theos in Greek (d became th), dievs in Latvian, Deva/Devas in modern descendants of Sanskrit, but also diva in many south Asian languages...
Deux is two. ;)
@@davidlericain He meant *Dieu :p
@@jean-michelnadeau2833 I know. Hehe.
Deus in Portuguese
Deity in English
Pre-Indoeuropean is literally the most interesting concept ever. It might be because I was already interested in Greco-Roman civilization AND Hinduism, but the whole idea is just endlessly fascinating. Mention PIE and you've immediately got my attention!
"Pre-Indoeuropean" is used for all those peoples and languages living in areas later conquered and assimilated by Indoeuropeans, for example Vasconics in much of Europe, Elamo-Dravidians in South Asia, Hattics and others in Asia Minor...
You may mean the so-called "Pre-Proto-Indoeuropean", which, at least per this video, would be what I call "proto-PIE", i.e. the linguistic precursor of PIE (Proto-Indoeuropean). My take is that it corresponds to a Neolithic culture in what is now NE Turkey, that would explain the slight linguistic overlap with Basque at "proto" level (as Vasconics originated in what is now Southern Turkey, not too far from them.
For example, Basque says bear as "hartz", which is much more closely related to PIE *hrktos than to its derived western versions like Latin "ursus" or Celtic-Gaelic "mathun" (Brythonic has a form "arz" but lacks the aspiration /h/ and may well be a Basque-influenced back-borrowing). Credit for this to Prof. Roslyn Frank, about the only US linguist who speaks Basque.
Another example is "ash", which has a clear PIE root *hesHs but is almost identical to Basque "hauts" (ash, dust), again missing the original PIE aspiration. This is my own finding.
There are many, I counted around 15% plausible cognates Basque-PIE in a mass lexical comparison, which is not massive but well above the 10% noise threshold, there must have been some ancient contact (sprachbund) even if the languages almost certainly do not derive from each other. IMO that happened in the early Neolithic, at the northern edges of the Fertile Crescent (which was surely very linguistically diverse at the time, the Pelasgo-Tyrsenian or proto-Etruscan family, once widespread in Anatolia and the Balcans before reaching Italy, surely was also there, East of Göbekli Tepe).
@@LuisAldamiz haha no I meant, "proto" I just have a bad habit of saying "pre". Thanks for sharing this information with me though, that's especially fascinating to learn about the inclusion of residents of Gobekli Tepe and other Neolithic cultures in the shared antecedents of PIE. Hearing about your research has definitely answered some of the questions that I had after seeing this video, so thanks again for taking the time to explain the subject in greater detail. Hope you have a great day!
@@t0xcn253 - IDK, IMO the GT culture (whose archaeological name is Novi Cori, frm a nearby site where people actually did live) just went extinct (as culture): we don't see any sign of their expansion. Not sure how exactly it happened but probaly they were absorbed by their expansive eastern neighbors of Halaf culture, which are IMO precursors of Etruscans, Pelasgoi and other peoples from Asia Minor and the Balcans I call Pelasgo-Tyrsenians (but linguistically are just "Tyrsenic", as only Etruscan = Tyrsenian and Lemnian, a very similar language from an island near Troy, are clearly documented).
But it is indeed interesting that, at least as far as I can discern, the magnificent monument (and maybe center of primitive cultural and material exchange between early farmers) is located between these three cultures that would later expand to Europe. Not everyone would agree, especially the pre-PIE people but there's very little other alternative, knowing, as we know now, that Zagros-Caucasus genetics were strongly involved at their genesis (also in the Elamo-Dravidian group, mind you and all the Mesopotamian arch (Sumerians for instance) -- genetics does not seem to directly imply linguistic affinity but they are still somehow related, while more Western groups of the Levant and Anatolia have another distinctive genetic pool (a range, less homogeneous maybe in terms genetic but more closely related in terms cultural as PPNA/B).
Odin von Tyrkenland rules all them ..
@@LuisAldamiz Wasn't the Zagros-Caucasus genetics in steppe people mediated by women, which doesn't inspire confidence in them also mediating PIE into a patriarchal society. As for Anatolian Neolithic genetics, it doesn't amount to much in steppe people. I would place PIE in the EEHG half of steppe ancestry.
As a linguist I always enjoy hearing people talk about historical linguistics 😊
I study Zoroastrianism, and the scholarly work done on that is mainly dominated by linguists at the moment. Respect
My favourite linguistic factoid is one regarding the word for bears.
There is a split since the PIE where the word for bear was considered taboo in some areas (which have lots of bears). Where the etymology of bear comes from the word brown, and approximates to “the brown one”, the original word was more similar to Arctus or ursa.
So in some areas people wouldnt mention the name of the brown ones. Making a split in the language, which at the start would have been 100% regional, as in they could speak the same language but use different phrases to talk about the same thing.
8:34 The powers of Dyaus Phter was transferred to his son -the God Indra -in Vedic mythology. Indra is the supreme God and the king of the Gods. He wields a thunderbolt weapon and has slayed a serpent demon . This is almost identical to Zeus and Jupiter. Similarly, in Germanic mythology the thunderbolt weapon and serpent slaying are attributed to Thor but his father Odin is the king of the Gods . So there are some regional variations.
Dyaus is not father of indra
@@user-ym3wq1ei1i He was in the early scriptures. A lot of the mythology was revamped later with Kashyapa gaining that position
@@user-ym3wq1ei1ivedic indra had dyaus and prithvi as his parents. All of that changed and got retconned with the later texts. Now indra is the son of kashyapa
@@parthkhanolkar7916 no no verses mention this he is son of Aditi and Kashyap
@@user-ym3wq1ei1i I think it's in the puranas where his parents got changed to kashyap and aditi. Indra from the vedas had dyaus and prathvi as his parents
I absolutely adore linguistics and religious studies separately, and it's awesome watching these videos of you putting them together. Thank you so much
May I recommend Crecganford here on TH-cam. An expert in indo-european mythology, he specializes in just this.
Same
@@Sporathandersson isn't he a pagan practicer as well?
Agree!!
@@lemokemo5752 I honestly don't know, but I also don't see how that would change anything. He regularly puts out great material which is why I watch him.
Indian here, who speaks Malayalam and Hindi. I love my culture and how there are so many similarities around the world. In Malayalam we still say Daevam ദൈവം in the south, and Hindi we still say Daev देव in the north. The Sanskrit version of our Vedic texts do refer to Dyaus Pitr द्यौष्पितृ, and his consort पृथिवी Pritvi Ma (Earth Mother). What's interesting though is इन्द्र (Lord Indr) is the one shown to have the abilities that Zeus is also shown to have, like his lightning bolt, Vajra वज्र which appears in two forms, as a hammer, and as a pure lightning bolt forged by Twastr (त्वष्टृ). Indr is also known as the king of Gods, like Zeus is. It seems almost like Zeus is a combination of Dyaus Pitr and Indr.
And of course there is the connection between Indr and Thor of Nordic Culture, including the story with Jormungandr.
In the Rig Veda, Indr slays a giant serpent called Vritr वृत्र, the serpent that holds the waters of the world captive.
And it goes deeper! Vritr is a Danava, a child of Danu दनु the primordial water, and Kashyapa कश्यप. If you know Celtic Mythology, you know about the Tuatha De Danu, the children of Danu. In Irish myth, Danu is also a water Goddess.
Fascinating!
But Malayalam isn't an indo European language, it is a Dravidian language. Words like 'Daevam' are loan words from Indo European languages.
Malayalam words are _loaned_ from Samskritam, it is incorrect to say they descended from it. Also, the schwa deletion as in Hindi is a relatively recent phenomenon, so it should be Indra, Vr̥tra, etc.
@@alexthampan9007 there was no Dravidian language before British missionaries decided to divide and rule
@@aravindsureshthakidayil English is north Germanic and Latin descendent we don't say the words of English as loan words do we ? Languages differentiate and evolve it's pretty common my guy
@@rameshraju4784 the concept of dravidian languages far predates british colonialism. the main axis of division was religion not ethnolinguistics
While Indo-European is the biggest language family in terms of the number of speakers, Austronesian is actually the family with the most languages in it.
Also the reason it has the most speakers is colonialism, doesn't really have anything to do with ancient peoples.
Islands maybe?
@@beethovenjunkie yes, but Indians speak Indo eripean languages (where do you think 'Indo' comes from?)
Way before colonialisation..
@@feather1229 You're right that there were Indo-European languages that were spoken in India before colonisation, but that is not the only country affected by colonialism. There are also large parts of Africa, all of the Americas, and Australia.
@@beethovenjunkie yes, but even if Brittish didn't invade India, we would still be speaking many Indo European language
Yes I'm high school dropout with a GED but I absolutely love this stuff my whole life and I've read books and now watch all the TH-cam channels I can on the subject for the last 50 years so thank you for this it is wonderful 👍😊
Same here.
Gedmatch?
I'm actually reading The Horse, the Wheel, and Language right now! Pretty dense, but observing the similarities between Sanskrit and Latin is extremely cool.
It is cool.
In Welsh the word for god is dios, same as Latin.
@@gwynbetts29 Ancient languages were far more mathematical and structured than modern languages where every syllable/letter carried with it a meaning. DeUs originally meant "light of God/heaven" similar to the word KaOs which originally meant "voice of God/primordial waters manifesting from God's voice" - light and sound/photons and phonons/energy and vibration is now found to be the fundamental building blocks of our existence.
@@gwynbetts29 in Sanskrit, it is Deo/Dev.
@@suriel8164 that's interesting. "Primordial waters" "KAos". In the Vedas, the first god created by God (Vishnu) is called KA. KA is later called Brahma, who marries the goddess of speech. God (Vishnu) lays down on primordial waters which were manifested from His meditation. From there, all gods were born. The importance of sound is that Vishnu first uttered OM, the primeval sound that was the seed of creation.
@@Himanshu_Singh793 Yes brother - Hinduism is really an umbrella term for many divergent philosophies, but I believe studyijg etymology is the key to figuring out what the ancients originally believed.
The original vedic teaching in my opinion is of Brahman (the infinite) who created through Vac (voice) which later became personified as the cow coddes (hence the word Vac is synonymously used for voice as well as for cow in Sanskrit/Latin).
The letters BRHM originally meant "one that is beyond comprehension/finite definition" and also "that which satiates/fulfills". Likewise SheVa linguistically means "source of the voice" but is also translated as "nothing" meaning the voice/speech (things created of matter/ripples within the waters") is NOT like the one who speaks so God is not a "thing" conposed of matter/energy like me and you but the source of it - hence "nir va na" linguistically meant "not of the voice" i.e. where one transcends the temporal realm of time/space/matter to find the timeless/blissful presence of God.
In my opinion, the advaita school is probably the most authentic and true to original vedic teaching as is also in line with abrahamic monotheism. God bless.
On the point of reconstructing myths, it is telling how many cultures share similar stories (not just in the indo-european family). A deity associated with the sky defeating a mighty serpent associated with chaos and using its remains to construct the world (Chaoskampf), a dog that watchfully guards over the underworld, a pair of twins who travel to the underworld, etcetera.
Even the flood
And yet to think these were all fabrications feels very wrong. Something happened back then, something our ancestors could only understand and record as myth and legend. We will never know, unless it happens once again.
Conclusión: Benevolent, organized aliens fought chaotic, beastial xenos with Earth as a battleground and we've been worshipping our saviours ever since.
Laugh if you will, but I am a Christian and the more videos like this I see, the more the Bible's cosmology falls into place.
Myth is important people! It's the pattern of reality!
Not the case. Don't expect anything worthy where Peterson pulls his ideas out from. It's his arse.
This is such a fascinating topic and I am incredibly grateful you are talking about it! I hope to see more in that regard in the future ☺
Your channel is one of the most interesting ones on TH-cam. Every single video is so engaging and educational, I'm extremely grateful for the work you put into your videos.
I’m a big fan of linguistics and religious studies so I’m very happy to see you talking about this, keep up the great work!
Same. He provides another perspecitve and the more one learns the more learned ones.
whats wild is Dyeus kinda sounds like spanish Dios th-cam.com/video/qYhuePJG6Ac/w-d-xo.html hit CC for english subs if you need!
@@thatguyinaband6341 because Dios is a descendant of Dyeus
@@libbybibby1579 for sure! it's gotta be, makes me wonder what else about those languages have esoteric truths
In indigenous Siberian and Mongolian religions, we know the highest deity as Tenger, тэнгэр (Tengri/Taniz in other languages). A very common epithet is Tenger Etseg, тэнгэр эцэг. Tenger means sky and etseg means father; the epithet names them Sky Father.
I've always wondered if there was a cultural connection between the Mongolic Tenger Etseg and the Indo-European Father Sky, and other deities. It is not inconceivable, as they both originate in the Eurasian steppe and are known to have had contact.
Europeans and Siberians share a common group called Afontova Gora. There's also some Blonde people in Mongolia, meaning that some sort of Aryans went there at some point. So likely related if not just inspired
Difference is that it clashes with the sedentary civilization of the yangtze river making it an isolated case study of how an imperialistic nomadic pastoralist clash with a sedentary city state government with it's own set of belief or ideology.
@@Panguman And mongoloid looks among high Norse & Icelanders like Bjork.
I read that the inhabitants of the Seven-river-region in souther Siberia have a story where it is said that the local rulers were topplet by a rebellion of their servants. The servants married the daughters of the former rulers, the former rulers married the daughters of the former servants.
If the former rulers were Indo-European and the former servants Turks and Uralics it would explain why Turks and Uralics still living in Siberia look like European-Asian hybrids.
@@Rickuo Wouldn't alot of that look just be because of Russians mixing there?
The way you present this information and the way you are wary of the uncertainties regarding such historical, archaeological and linguistical studies shows an acute sense of truth and a healthy dose of scepticism. Wish more people would approach subjects with as much care and knowledge as you do, especially when presenting those subjects publicly. Never stop spreading knowledge please, people like you are a gift and should be cherished!
I learned pashto for the military and it was very interesting first learning about these similarities. I feel like most people would expect pashto and latin derived languages to be extremely different, yet they have so many similarities and root words it is almost absurd. One thing I find very interesting is that words that are closer to the family, and closer to needs tend to stay very similar- we go from pater and even in pashto, the word is now 'plaar'. It is familiar but not identical. Two is 'dwa', which of course is EXTREMELY similar. Those basic numbers are so important to every day life that they must have stayed common throughout history. Words that mean water are also highly similar through all of these languages (Aqua, agua, and in pashto, auba- very silly). Family names and things like agriculture too- for instance, when English was conflated with Norse, many of the family names stayed similar to old English. The 's' plural indicator was a norse thing that was applied because of English women being... well, adopted into their new families by those who stayed. Those old english words (Children? BRETHEREN? Bretheren became brothers, but children never became childs. who decided to call cows cattle????) are still with us today, but lots of the less familiar ones are gone or heavily corrupted.
English may be a mutt language but so is everything else!!!!!
You should research the Avestan language, it is a direct ancestor to Pashto, and likely bears even more similarities to Latin
it’s very interesting to see a non-pashtun spot all this cause its rare for people to learn it. I’m a native pashtun but i find pashto to be a very strange language compared to its neighbors, because it’s ancestor language got isolated in the mountains mainly because they were pushed down by other northern nomadic persian then turks (which also led to many dialects) it retained many more older proto-indo-european features compared to its neighbors. the most interesting to me is the confusion with “blue” because there is no such word, it’s just used with green which is “sheen” and i heard that was a common occurrence in older languages and that certain irish still has it similar. which is interesting cause their both on the other ends to each other but isolated from neighbors. Pashto can’t even be traced properly but traces of every language can be found in it, the number system sounds more similar to russian and balkan, while farsi and hindi sound more similar to each other. There are many vocab in pashto which are very uninfluenced and specific to the language, very strange considering farsi devoured most other eastern iranian languages. Pashto’s grammar is also a mix of suffix and prefix like mashing latin and balkan grammar together. Farsi is definitely more similar to romance languages though, with things like “biradar and brother, padar padre, mother madre etc”. We learn a lot about who we are by learning who our neighbors are
you got colonised by mohammadens@@muhammadalikakar6863
Dva is two in Yugoslav languages too
I love the study of etymology. This is such an interesting video.
A funny thought about the prehistoric wagons that occurred to me is that it establishes an ancestral link between the modern concepts of "live in a van down by the river" and "return to tradition"
You'd want some sheep and open steppe to make a living of that.
okay, store enough litres of milk, we are about to go full expansion... Hail Aryavarta
@@LuisAldamiz Interestingly enough I recently heard about a guy who's been doing it out in the northwest like oregon for over a decade,just lives in his little wagon with his sheep and has a youtube channel about it.
@@ffwast - Beware: he probably looks like a harmless hippy but that's exactly how the Indoeuropeans kickstarted their conquest of half the world. 😝
Return 2 monke
The videos about Antiquity are the ones I enjoy the most. The quality of information you provide always impresses me. Thank you.
This is the video I've been looking for for a while. Thank you!
YES. I would absolutely LOVE more PIE religion content from you. Your way of presenting information is next level and everything Proto-Indo-European is massively underrated! 🙏
I like the Eos-Eostre-Ostara-Ishtar-Inanna-Isis-Astarte-Ushas-Uzume-Aurora-h2éwsōs goddesses best myself. Sun Lady!
Eostre video currently in the works. Stay tuned for April 2023.
@@ReligionForBreakfast may want to mention that the word Easter originates from the Germanic goddess Eostre.
@@ethanjacobrosca7833 That's because the month Easter fell in was named after the goddess in Germanic languages. Like how in English and Latin languages, March is named after the Roman god, Mars, and Saturday is named after the god Saturn. Easter the festival has no connection to Eostre, though. Any more than the 4th of July is an annual feast to a deified Julius Caesar.
In pretty much every non-Germanic langauge (including Latin languages and Greek) Easter is called Pascha/Passover because it shares roots/origins with the Jewish holiday
@@RevengeOfIjapa Eostre is where the *name* Easter comes from. She had a feast roughly around the same time. No one's saying that's where the custom itself originated. At most, hares might be a germanic association.
Eostre and Ishtar aren't related
Sky Father, Mother Earth and Sun Deity (who serves Justice/Sees everything) (sometime divided into two deities, like Varuna-Mithra) are very common across various cultures and probably propagated from one common ancient religion. Also, Avesta and Veda share a lot of cognate terms, hinting that both had a common parent language which branched into their own thing.
pagan ideas
@@user-cg2tw8pw7j Yours is also rooted in same traditions!
They are also extremely simple concepts that are easy to come up with independently
@@kishandubey7882 And if he's christian, there's many "pagan" traditions embedded in Christianity. I'm from Mexico and i'm surprised that many of the traditions i thought were 100% Catholic actually came from European folk traditions and even some Amerindian ones (since Christian missionaries in the Americas oftentimes allowed people to keep practicing some traditions to make conversion easier).
Christian missionary is a clever thing..they will keep your tradition but will enforce later to not follow
I've been intrigued by this concept of a common root for many religions since I first heard about it, it just makes so much sense when you start to compare, especially the creational and foundational myths of different cultures. There are still so many depths to uncover.
Love the video! I particularly like that the Lithuanian language had a brief cameo in it. For those who don't know, among all modern living languages, the two Baltic ones; Lithuanian and Latvian, are said to have retained the most Proto-Indo-European features.
Also, Lithuanians technically were the last "pagans" in Europe to be baptized.
Well at least India is still keeping the flame alive.
There still exist actual "pagans" in European Russia. The Finno-Ugric Mari people have retained a continuous religious tradition despite conversion attempts from both Muslims and Orthodox Christians throughout the centuries. It has been influenced to a degree by both Christianity and Islam, but it's been kept alive all this time and it's not a constructed neo-Pagan religion based on later Christian texts or something of the sort that most "pagans" practice.
@@jokemon9547 yeah except Hindus, there are no real pagans still continuing. Maris were Christian since the last 8 centuries.
@@nzx. It will be soon wiped out in this century, the Islamists in the subcontinent don't want it to.
Islam and Christianity has wiped out native ancient religions since their inception.
There's still a large amount of practicing pagans in Lithuania.
The relationship between religion and language seems fascinating, it would be interesting to see how religions differ depending on the language family associated with them.
I could imagine that the sky's universality played a role in the sky fathers popularity
Love this channel, it's truly enriching. Well researched and formulated.
For more on language development, NativLang here on YT is pretty darn good. If you're interested in the history of the English language, starting with PIE, The History of English Podcast is absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for this coverage which brings together two favorite topics.
I love NativLang!
I just wanna say, as a historical linguist, this is, like, the best video you could’ve ever put out, at least for me specifically
Great video mate. Thanks for the knowledge.
I would absolutely love it if you did more Proto-Indo-European religion videos. It's one of my favorite topics in the field of ancient religion.
If I looked up at the open sky
I would also assume that there was something sacred up there
Have you ever SEEN a sunset?
I made a presentation on Proto Indo European and their mythology for one of my classes. It's such an insightful video. I wished this video came out two months ago.
Yes! I love this, what an absorbing topic. Thank you for the great content
Very informative content. Thank you.
Another great video as always many thanks
The thing I think is the most cool about PIE, is that we can infer the development of society. Like IE languages share a root for wheel and cooper, but not all share a word root for iron. We can then infer that iron production was a development that occurred after PIE started to split into new language groups and copper production and use of the wheel occurred before the split. Ik there are others, but that is the example that comes to mind. Its so cool that linguistics can point that stuff out.
so interesting! thank you for your work!
Thanks for sharing 🙏🏾
Sky Father is pretty universal in Eurasia. Turkic and Uralic people also had a main/central sky father god: Kök. Which probably meant the color blue.
Mongolic as well
@@hereusername KekTengri blue sky
@@barguttobed same tradition
Also, we call the sky "Gök" in Turkish. And our ancient religion is "Gök Tanrı", which means "Sky God".
The concept of sky seems to be different tho. I studied asian myths as a historian and it seems to me that they count the ground as a part of Sky.
They probably wanted to mean Space or Universe. The word used for Space, "Uzay" seems to be invented in last century and it means "Far-" and "-ay" suffix probably adapted from Mongolian. So we could make a literal translation, like "Ranged".
"Evren" the word used for universe on the other hand meant Dragon, and I never saw an instance of it to describe anything space related.
To connect the God and the Sky, in Latvian we have slightly outdated expression "Dieva diena", "a God's Day", to describe perfect, cloudless sky/day. Sounds like "There is only God above today".
But to entangle it even more, "Tēvs" in modern Latvian is "Father", which sounds like Greek "Theus". So, just one consonant apart, we have a single word for God, Sky, and Father.
I got slightly excited on the slide at 9:15. I knew about PIE Héwsōs being Greek Eos and Latvian Austra, but never met Iranian version. The thing is that our deity of spring renewal and guardian of horses is called Ūsiņš. While the ending "-iņš" is mostly perceived as a diminutive, it (debatably) could mean "subordinate" or "descendent", like English "-ling". Spring, the son of Daybreak, huh? Makes me ponder the cosmology of our nomadic ancestors.
Latvian Lithuanian languages are so common to our indian languages
Deiva dhinam is there in Tamil the southern most language, it's means the day of God
About the one God thing us Hindus have always believed in one God but the god is interpreted in many ways
They say Lithuanian is one of the most conservative Indoeuropean languages, so I'm not really surprised. Still very interesting.
Just a minor correction. Greek is Theos, the -us ending would be Latin (but actually makes Deus), in any case the connection sounds solid.
Great video! Fell down a PIE rabbit hole, especially in relation to religion and migration and was wondering if anyone on TH-cam had anything about it. Found your vid and immediately subscribed upon watching.
This is my first video from you but this topic is so interesting for me that I feel that you could have dug so much deeper into every point you talked about, all the connections and similarities between the PIE society and people to the ones that followed them in early history
I like the coherent narrative of your videos, which even make an amateur like me understand the concept
Imagine thousands of years from now, some aliens trying to reconstruct our mythology of Spiderman, with nothing to go on but his name, Spiderman, and that he was some kind of hero figure. They could never dream of the richness and all the particulars of his story, the things that make him what he is, the backstory and everything. Likewise, when we are looking back at these ancient peoples, we should keep in mind that they surely had rich stories for their mythological characters, too, and what we can deduce from just a name, like DeusPater, is just a tiny tip of big iceberg.
Interesting idea, but most stories don't really last over such timespans, only few have a sufficient selective advantage. How many of the stories told by people thousand years ago you actually know? I'd say just couple, and most of these are related to cultural or religious concepts which were established already back then for hundreds if not thousands of years in a form or another.
Spiderman is a bit over sixty year old, mostly a commercial concept without much of a religious cult outside United States. Without continuous literal tradition and continuous interest of supporting it I would expect it - just counting probabilities of competing interests - to first turn into a historical curiosity, and eventually disappear from any relevance or linguistic effect over coming 100-500 years as almost all ideas do. After all, it's pretty presumptuous to assume that future is set in stone by our current fads and interests...
@@foobar1500 Um. I don't think that's what they were saying at all. Since we don't have much left to work with other than tiny fragments (like a possible name), it can be easy to view ancient peoples and their culture as simple. The Spiderman example is being used as a way to consider how ancient peoples storytelling was not necessarily any less rich than the people of today. It doesn't actually matter how relevant Spiderman may or may not be in the future. That wasn't the point.
But they can also learn about how it's an imaginative character 😁
Thank you for this!🙏🏻💖
Hi! I'm new to the channel but I very much enjoy your videos! I'm a history major with a minor in religious studies student and your videos sometimes are better than some of my classes hahaha. I was wondering if you ever considered in making a video about Kardecism and Allan Kardec. Thank you! Keep up the amazing videos
Interestingly, the most important* god of the vedas is Indra, who is the god of war, sky, storms, and lightning, and who literally uses a ligthning thunderbolt weapon called vajra. I had no clue Dyaushpitr was a thing before this video and just assumed that Indra was the Zeus-Jupiter equivalent, and looking into it it seems that though Indra's parentage is inconsistent in the vedas, he is sometimes in fact identified as son of Dyaushpitr. So it's clearly more complex than i thought before, maybe the introduction of Indra was a later development within vedic tradition and the roles and attributions once given to Dyaushpitr were associated to Indra instead, Dyaushpitr being relegated to a minor deity
*important as by far the most mentioned and praised, as there's no fixed hierarchy of gods implied in the vedas, whenever a god is invoked, they are spoken of as the supreme being
Indra is considered to be the son of Dyaus, but as is typical with Proto-Indo-European religions, the son and father are often considered to be one and the same, and often they will use their names interchangeably, especially with the more 'cosmic' seeming gods
I think there is a belief I've seen that Indra was a real figure, and was beloved so much that they believed him to be the Son of Dyaus, but also Dyaus himself born as a man, and so they began to say Indra instead of Dyaus. I forget where I read this, but they also argued that Odin underwent a similar thing.
Indra is Zeus/Jupiter, Dyaushptr is Kronos/Saturn, both dethroned and taken the title by his son.
They are invoked as the supreme being because they are. In the vedas into modern Hinduism, all gods are aspects of one god.
One god
Many forms
Indra is the god of lightning i think
He is the son of Dyaus pitŕ
Just like odin and thor
A bit like in the norse religion
At some point Thor became much more popular than odin
Sky Father, Earth Mother.
As Above, So Below.
Congratulations on a great episode. You mentioned the Hittite language, have you any plans for a show on the “Land of 1000 Gods” including the Hittite or Hurrian Pantheons? Or any episodes on pre Indo European Paleolithic or Neolithic religion, or the groundbreaking work of Jacques Cauvin on the development of symbolic thought and the “Birth Of The Gods”
Fascinating, thank you!
On the subject of sky gods, it'd be really interesting to learn about tengrism and related belief systems.
You're hinting that it's possible to think something without inheriting the belief from your ancestors? The internet is full of guys who try to "think with their blood."
@@faithlesshound5621 what on earth are you talking about?
@@freddypowell7292 The idea that men's religious beliefs are connected to their Y chromosomes.
@@faithlesshound5621 You are having a schizophrenic episode.
@@connorperrett9559 I presume your diagnosis is of "sluggish schizophrenia" with its characteristic "reformist delusions."
OMG it’s about time this got brought up!
This is so cool! Years ago I took a seminar course on P.I.E. and Lithuanian in college and I remember being pleasantly surprised that after only a few weeks of study in the basics of P.I.E., they had us reading the first ever Lithuanian printed book (Mažvydas' 1547 catechism) in the original with no real difficulty. Granted, according to the course write up, Lithuanian is hypothesized to have been the least-changed of all surviving Indo-European languages, so maybe it wasn't so amazing, but it was still pretty neat! Now that's 15 years later, all I can remember is the words for "hi!" and "eggs" (labas and kiaušiniai, respectively), but the discussion of historical linguistics in this video brought back some happy memories. Thank you, RFB!
The Indo-European homeland must have been modern day Japan, because that's where all inhabitants(ancient population centers) of India, Greece, Persia(Iran+Iraq), Anatolia came from ??
When Ice-age Ice receded from middle and upper Central Asia, you move in, not move out ? Thats why Horse carts. Some people were moving in , not moving out.
Doing great job. Thank you.
You gave a great presentation of this topic! I'm speaking as someone with both an MA and a BA in linguistics
Nice episode there about the Proto Indo-European history and their ancient religion. I hope you should also make an episode about the usage of the ancient symbol of Swastika and why the Nazis used that symbol on their evil ideology.
Germans/Nazzis used to call that hakenkruez (hooked cross) not swastik .It were British who deliberately made the Indian sanskrit word swastik famous across Europe as a part of their agenda to demoni ze people of India and justify their occupation here .
the Nazis werent evil
The swastika is an indo-european symbol
This is such an entrancingly fascinating subject!
Here’s another weird one, Cerberus in Greek mythology and an underworld dog named Sarvara in Hindu mythology, they think they both go back to the same mythological creature in the Proto-Indo-European religion.
they both mean spotted
Wow two of my favorite topics, linguistics and religions, in one video. Awesome!
I'd love your take on the relationship between Indo-Iranian religions, comparing the Avestan and Sanskrit, the Vedas and the Gathas, the Ahuras and Asuras, Devas and Daevas relationships etc
Pandemonium is such a funny concept
I actually found the word for Dyeus Pater in Persian, it's "Deev Pedar"
Deev in Persian means demon because the Avesta believes that Ahura(which itself is a cognate with Asura in Sanskrit and Aesir in Old Norse) is the sign of goodness and Deev is a sign of devilry.
But at the end, it refers to something inhuman and immortal.
And Pedar obviously means Father in Persian.
@@descendedofrigvedicclans2216 ?
@@indianboy59You didnt understand. He was speaking proto dehati language
Avestan - Ahura = God
Sanskrit- Deva = God
Avestan- Daeva = Demon
Sanskrit- Asura = Demon
Very informative! Enjoyed!
I very much appreciate this unbiased approach to this subject, many who are very knowledgeable about this subject and make videos on these site tend to be pretty biased.
It's good to listen to a true academic who says what he knows, stays true to fact, and doesn't imply anything further
Well presented.
I am absolutely thankful for your videos about the Indo-European 'gods', I've tried to read into these subjects, but they were a little complicated for me, especially with the Indo-European ""spellings"" of words - I'd be very grateful if or whenever you feel like making more of those!
The Indo-European homeland must have been modern day Japan, because that's where all inhabitants(ancient population centers) of India, Greece, Persia(Iran+Iraq), Anatolia came from ?
When Ice-age Ice receded from middle and upper Central Asia, you move in, not move out ? Thats why Horse carts. Some people were moving in , not moving out.
Awesome video, so much knowledge!
*deiwós is also the root for Finnish meaning the sky. Amazing philological work as always! 💖
All praises to Dyeus the sky daddy🙌
just talked to god he said don’t call him that
Sky zaddy
@@robdoghd which god? Dyeus?
@@WreckageHunter the one true god, the flying spaghetti monster
@@robdoghd who odin
This is really fascinating. It's becoming more and more evident that ancient people were more interconnecting than we moderns would intuitively give them credit for
They were one tribe back when this mythology was starting to form 😁
He just said in the video we have known about the indo european language family for more than a century. Also this is just evolution from a common ancestor. Nothing really ground breaking. It's fascinating, sure, but I don't like how many alternative media spin that narrative of "the ancients were an interconnected civilization". It leads to people like Graham Hancock getting the spotlight
@@theghosthero6173 and it doesn't mean all Europeans and such go back to this ancestor. People lived in Europe before the tribe arrived who spoke PIE. They just carried their language with them and for other reasons the language become the dominant language in the places they arrived in. But the interconnectedness of the civilizations after they "broke off" is not something we can conclude based on the fact that the language had a common ancestor ..
@@theghosthero6173 (it was not meant as a correction or argument against you, I am in agreement with you, just added to your point)
@@silasfrisenette9226 yes I agree with you. Trade was a thing far back in time, but people love to fantasize about people going far and teaching others about things while we mostly have proof for commodities traveling from hand to hands.
Great video. Thank you.
Five minutes in and this is already easily among the more accurate representations of knowledge from several branches of linguistics I've seen in a TH-cam video 😅
I did my undergrad in both linguistics and religious studies, so I am elated whenever PIE tcomes up as a topic!
I've tried to learn more about it, but a quite high percentage of information online quickly takes some uncomfortable white nationalist turns.
Awesome, you sell tires now?
@@emptyhand777 No, why?
@@EudaemonicGirl - it was a joke based on your major.
Like the shortest book ever written, "Career Opportunities for History Majors."
@@emptyhand777 what a clown you are
This makes my heart so happy 🥺 what a beautifully old world we live on
Thank you for this interesting video
The way linguistic relationships can imply or preserve aspects of long gone cultures, preserving small hints of long gone stories and beliefs, just really tickles my interest in world-building for science fiction and fantasy; I am definitely going to be learning more about it!
Another awesome video! I'm fascinated by the Proto-Indo European language and beliefs.
This was a favorite topic of mine when back in the day as an undergraduate (not quite the Neolithic) I began reading up on linguistics. I found out that in the late 19th c it was usual for anyone studying linguistics to master Lithuanian, which was thought to be the closes European relative to PIE. As it happened, I ended up marrying a Lithuanian, but I'm no closer to the PIE in the sky (father)...
I love watching videos of highly knowledgeable people like this guy
Fascinating 👍😉
Great research, and super interesting 👏
Haha watching this before my Proto-Indo-European Exam tomorrow :D
Break a leg.
@@benjaminklass5118 thanks haha
the title freaked me out cause "Deus" is portuguese for God and children (at least here in Brazil) do call god "sky father" (or sky daddy) 💀☠️
Also in italian, the christian god may be called " Padre celeste", which is the same thing
Right, lord’s prayer father in heaven. heavenly father
Deus is sky Pitar is father
That's because ceu means sky and heaven in Portuguese.
Há uma conexão entre Dyaus Pitr e os outros deuses celestiais. Dyaus é a origem da palavra deus, que significa céu, luz do dia etc. ou seja, é uma divindade da qual criou-se o conceito de "deus". No fundo, parece que inúmeras religiões tem o "papai do céu"
That was one of your best! 👍
Fascinating, thanks!
In turkic and mongolian languages, there is also a sky father god : Tengri or Tenger. It seems plausible that there was an ancient religion of the steppes, which transcended the language barriers, and was common to both PIE and Turko-Mongols nomads. In Uralic langages, Jumala is a sky god and that word has become synonymous with god.
More of a Buddhist influence. Gokturk adopted Buddhism at certain point in time.
@@Gaurav-wd2vy Those predate Buddhism in the area for centuries if not millennia. Xiongnu worshipped Tengri.
@@mecha-sheep7674 Africans also worshipped a sky father, its just a coincidence. There's no similarity between proto indo Europeans and mongols/turk
@@Mixran Uralic, Altaic, and old indo-european share a LOT of common history and influences. The Scythians and proto-scythians, the Tokharians, the Hunic, the various Finno-Ugrian populations of the eurasian steppes have certainly exchanged words, ideas, genes and beliefs, before the advent of history.
That's not the case with far-away african populations, separated by the Mediterranean sea and the Sahara desert.
Of course, I can't prove that Tengri is Dyeus-pater. But that one may have influenced the other seems possible.
@@mecha-sheep7674 dyeus Peter has nothing to do with tengri, stop appropriating history
i'd LOVE to see more stuff about prehistoric religion both speculative and archaeological, if you have any interest in doing that. also as a linguistics nerd i love any discussion involving p.i.e. and other super early languages.
prehistoric cultures are my biggest interest in history (besides very early christianity) but they're usually not very accurately discussed on youtube thanks to all the alternate history/atlantis proponents that live here. it's a shame.
Great video, always nice to watch content about the indo-europeans.
On the prominence of the "sky father" in the indo-european mythology, they seemed to worship as primary gods more grounded ones.
For greeks of the mycenian age it's seemed to be poseidon, but in a hades like "god of the underworld" and earthquake position.
For romans mars, but in a agriculture god position.
Crecganford covers this and other proto-Indo-European stuff too! I highly recommend checking is channel out.
Dan Davis History also has a lot of good stuff on just-barely prehistoric societies (Bell Beaker, Yamnaya, Sintashta, etc.)
Cannot recommend Crecganford enough, great guy and great channel.
Etymology and PIE roots of modern words are so fascinating. I know we'll never be able to learn very much about the PIE people themselves, but what a legacy they left behind!
where? please give archeological proof of so-called PIE.
@@trollarasan Why hindoo-doo eat da cow poo-poo???
@@1sanitat1 Why Christinsanes eat da hindu poo-poo??? ex Christian yoga
@@trollarasan Systematic correspondence between sounds. Vindication of laryngeal hypothesis with Hittite retaining two of the three laryngeals in word-initial position. Inconsistencies in grammar such as the verb 'to be' from *h₁ésti where there's a consistent alteration between forms that start with a vowel and other forms that start with 's-'. Clear evidence of the language being related and that means they descend from and ancestral language which the evidence points to.
Excellent video, thanks!
Great job! More on The Topic please
im also interested in the hammer/club/mallet wielding god traditions too. its neat stuff.