Was Termina Real? (Zelda Theory)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2024
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The land of Termina from the Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask has for many years been debated on the topic of whether it was real-- or just a fabrication of Link's own mind. Join me to discover why the events of this dark game were in fact completely real; and also join me to discover why they were not. Duality Theory!
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What's your favorite mask from Majora's Mask? Mine is... the Stone Mask! So creepy.
EDIT: I am REALLY enjoying all the diverse feedback!! This really was a topic that hits differently with everyone! Please remember to be kind when debating, ya'll
Mine is Romani mask due to me wearing it often
If you count it as one: The Bunny Hood.
I don’t know how I could run around without it lol
Majora's Mask xD
Giants mask
I like the korok one!
Ah yes, Termina, otherwise known as Schrödinger’s Realm.
Ok I’m actually watching the video now I just had to let that out.
My favorite realm! Or is it?
Lmao
Kek
best one xD!
As a hysterical wrestling fan once said at a convention....”it’s still real to me, damnit!!!”
Fuckin feels!
MARKS!!
Yaaaas boi/gurl
The Hero's Bow found in Goron Mines during TP is a physical object from Termina.
Right, because Link got it in Termina, then gave it to the Gorons between MM and TP.
No it's actually the bow from Skyward Sword. It's also found in the tower of gods in Wind Waker so it definitely isn't from Termina
@@Zeldom Those are games that came after MM. Not canonically (except TP), but still.
@@CookiePieMonster Exactly. The lore of Zelda changes as each game comes out. Developer intent doesn't really play much of a factor into the lore which is even said in the Zelda Encyclopedia. Meaning that the same Bow appearing in Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword all have altered the significance of the bow. Until Skyward Sword I think the argument for the bow would be valid in favor of Termina's reality, but I think that the lore of it presented in TP and SS make it very difficult for that to be the case.
Zeldom okay but if the first iteration of the hero’s bow was in skyward in the lore, and we’re going with the assumption that it’s the same bow each time we see it, doesn’t that still prove the existence of Termina?
I really feel like that tree was a portal to Termina and portals to other worlds are a very common theme in Zelda. Termina can very likely be a world that exists in the far past from when Majora wasn't sealed. Since the entire game is centered around time and the goddess of time Termina can exist anywhere at any point in time. The only set time is when Link entered the portal. Also the part with Epona: Since she and skull kid entered before Link did any amount of time could have passed in Termina before Link arrived.
Also, majora is powerful and if it had the power to move the moon I’m sure it possessed a powerful to simply have epona teleported into termina field where epona was lured by the song that can be heard in the farm.
Given that the Lost Woods gives me similar vibes to the Wood Between the Worlds in The Magician’s Nephew, this makes 100% sense to me.
Like going the right way in the Lost Woods can bring you anywhere. Or anywhen.
I really like that theory it is pretty much handcanon for me
I always hated the "Termina was a dream" theory. Here are some points against it.
1. Link's Awakening. In that game, the island and everyone on it is just a dream. Throughout the game, bosses, NPCs, and a painting all hint (or outright say) that this isn't real. Majora's Mask has none of that.
2. The books say Termina stopped existing after Link left. The credits of Majora's Mask show otherwise.
3. A director's interview exists somewhere where the game's director mentions it being real. Granted, as different people are brought on to work on new games, lore can change, but this would mean all lore in MM itself was supposed to be real while in development.
4. There is the statement many make that things from Termina are just recreations of things Link or Skullkid saw in Hyrule (Malon to Romani, etc). But then there is enemies like Gyorg. Gyorg has many similarities to Gyorgs seen on Wind Waker and Phantom Hour Glass (purpleish pink body, dark gray face with a horn on it, roughly ship sized). Gyorgs tend to live far at sea in the series and Link in Oot never even visits the coast. The closest he gets to seeing something like Gyorg is the regular shark in Lake Hylia's laboratory. Then there's the question of whether Skullkid would have seen one, which... I don't really know.
5. One of the memories of Skullkid takes place in Termina. We can even find said spot in Termina. Skullkid also knows Termina's four giants, and was friends with them.
6. Many characters that Link has never seen before. One is obviously Tingle. Some have claimed that Tingle is a weird memory of Link, yet Tingle re appears in other Zelda games set in Hyrule Wind Waker, Swords Adventure, outfit in Triforce Heroes). Some others are Kafei, his parents, and the blacksmiths, all who have zero counterparts in Hyrule.
7. Phantom Ganon. In Wind Waker, Phantom Ganon returns (I assume Ganon was re-hiring). In this game, he has a sword. On this sword is writing, which translates to the names of the blacksmiths from Termina (uniquely, the same design for Phantom Ganon is used in Four Swords Adventure, the timeline where Phantom Ganon wasn't banished. There, he doesn't have the names on the sword).
8. Ganon has no Termina counterpart. Ganon has haunted the thoughts of some Links, including Link to the Past Link. In Link's Awakening, the final nightmare takes the forms of some of Link's foes, including Ganon and his disguise Aganim. If Termina was made from Oot Link's mind, you think something similar would happen.
9. Fierce Deity mask returns in Triforce Heroes (admittedly, this point is a little weak). Triforce Heroes had an update that added the Pit of Trials. At the end, you gained the Fierce Deity costume. If Termina wasn't real, then why would this be here? (This point is weak because it was added in an update, and wasn't part of the base game, so it's canon is ambiguous).
10. Lorule. One of the biggest points people tell me is that Termina had people who looked exactly like those from Hyrule, so it must be a dream. Did anyone remember A Link Between Worlds? Lorule is an alternate version of Hyrule, complete with alternate people. Quite a few look exactly the same or have the exact name (Dampe is still named Dampe, just like MM. His only difference is that he's purple. The priest in the temple two feet from him is exactly the same as Hyrule).
*yes*
BUT like MM, the Wind Fish appears after Link in Links Awakening wakes up so its similar
This... is all actually really solid evidence. This actually convinced me.
Ganondorf was going to be in one of the fishing holes in MM3D, but was scrapped.
@@dylancasteel2385 Wasn't the Wind Fish real? The island was a dream, specifically the dream of the Wind Fish, but the Wind Fish himself was a real entity.
For the "Termina is real" side you forgot to mention the part of the game where we see a flashback to a time before Skull Kid met Tatl and Tael. He was all alone shivering inside the giant log in the southern area of Termina Field. Termina couldn't have been created by the power of Majora's Mask since Skull Kid was already in Termina during that flashback and did not have the mask yet. It wasn't until after he first met Tatl and Tael that he robbed the Happy Mask Salesman and first stole Majora's Mask from him.
Plus, there are lots more people in Termina besides the mayor who did not have Hyrulean counterparts in Ocarina of Time. There's Kafei, the Four Giants, the Deku King, the Deku Princess, the Deku Butler, Darmani, the various Zora members of the Indigo-gos, the turtle, the ghostly residents of the Ancient Castle of Ikana, the Garo, the Garo Master, and more. If you single out the mayor as the odd one out, then you'd have to do the same for all of these other new characters too.
It just makes things easier to think of Termina as real and write off any of its weirdness by saying "Because it's a fantasy world." Besides, it's not like Hyrule doesn't have its own fair share of weird things too.
I especially never liked the "Everyone in Termina are the same people Link met in Hyrule so it must be a dream" idea, because it's simply not true. You just listed quite a number of people who are new to Majora's Mask and I think there are still several more.
I think Darmani and lulu from the indigo gos are supposed to be slightly tweaked versions of Darunia and Ruto from oot. Just look at the manga ( I know it isn’t canon but the writers get Nintendo to approve it.) in it link immediately mistakes darmani for darunia. I get your point and agree with you but I think these are tweaked sprites.
Apologies for being a comment cop but I love your “gamr”
Ghodtly rrsidents of the ancient castle of Ikana? You mean the ones that looked like the Composer Brothers from OOT?
@@aztralsea even if they are 'just' tweaked sprites they are still new sprites, they reused the vast majority of the other sprites from OoT so there's no treason they couldn't just have used the sprites for Darunia and Ruto, and yet they didn't.
"The events of Majora's Mask have no affect on any of the later Zelda games"
Ummm... what about the GIANT statue of Darmani carved into a cliff in BotW's Goron City??
That was just a simple reference left by the developers probably not canon
@@egg936 it was canon when link used the statue next to it to remember Daruk
It was cannon when I climed all over those beautiful goron faces looking for fricken korok seeds.
@@egg936 not Canon yet it's completely seeable and not an full on secret?
I think if it was Canon people would comment about daruma's face on there
A few thoughts:
One thing that makes me want Termina to be real is the Happy Mask Salesman. I don't honestly think Link could "imagine" him with the perspectives, attitudes, and motivations he has in MM, just based on his actions in OoT. And considering where Link finds him and what he knows, Happy Mask Salesman also CAME to Termina knowingly.
Secondly, I know it's kinda "tetraforce"-y, and on the whole I take the creators' word that the tetraforce isn't a thing, but I think it makes sense that Termina is a land where Hylia is important, but Din, Farore, and Nayru aren't. And in that sense, it's not a "dark" world or an inverted world, but rather a world dominated by a fixation on *time*. Sure, the moon crashing into Termina and our ability to turn back time are circumstantial, but Ikana is reenacting an eternal war regardless. The historic events of Termina feel like they could have been 1000 years ago or yesterday. And I feel like that's by design. Time is cyclical in Termina by nature, and it's living in a state of perpetual repetition of a late-stage whether the moon is crashing or not. Us actually resetting time is just another layer. That's my impression anyway.
Oh, boy. I love your theories, Bandit, but as somebody who devoted nearly a year of his life to studying this game...there are some major oversights here.
It’s actually impossible, according to the game, for Termina NOT to be real. See, Skull Kid meets the fairies in Termina-something Tatl remembers-long before he had Majora’s Mask. And Tatl clearly is shown existing before Link is thrown from his horse-she’s the reason it happens!
Skull Kid is clearly ancient. For one, he is likely also the one from Twilight Princess, which takes place long after MM. Him jumping between worlds is not much of a stretch, considering we see him do it repeatedly.
There is also a lot of evidence that Majora’s Mask itself originated from Termina. In addition to the obvious inclusion of its shape in Stone Tower, the Secret Shrine is filled with knockoff heart-shaped-masks and schematics to open Stone Tower. Everything in Ikana is repeatedly stated to have happed long ago-Dampe’s grandfather spoke of it as ancient history. (Stone Tower and Snowhead Temple both have artwork of the giants, too.)
Skull Kid’s entire reason to stealing the mask is predicated on his relation with the Giants.
The trippy world-transition is similar to other world transitions. Look at A Link Between Worlds-it’s literally interdimensional paint.
The Hero’s Bow comes from Termina, and also appears in Twilight Princess.
Epona was not sent to Romani Ranch-as I recall, Romani mentions that she found the horse lost and took her in.
The whole War of the Garo clearly happened long ago-and Skull Kid did not set off Ikana’s demise (that was likely the Garo Master releasing Gomess). Skull Kid merely renewed the spirits’ restlessness.
I could go on for hours. But I’ll stop here. The game itself, Link becoming involved, none of it would have happened were Termina not already real. Besides, the developers clearly intended it to be real-not only did the manual say so, but they spent so much time on subtle world building DESPITE the development limits...
Thanks for reading!
I'd like to believe Termina is a true parallel to Hyrule like Lorule. But your arguments are flawed.
You can't use evidence from the "dream" section of the game to argue against the theory. With only the intro immune to an easy refutation of "But that was just part of the dream". Your much better off picking apart the assertion that it is a dream at all.
I typically don't think about it too much, but I have noticed that when I was tinkering with various game maps to figure out how Hyrule's borders have grown over the thousands of years of its history, I've found that the map in OoT vaguely resembles parts of the Great Plateau and a little further north into the "capital region" of Hyrule in BoTW (I can't remember what it's called). Parts of the SS surface map vaguely resemble other parts of the Great Plateau and a fair bit of Faron Woods, though the desert appears to have been moved. Termina's map vaguely resembles the southwest-ish area from the Great Plateau and the "capital region". TP's map also had its own vague-ish place. There are enough differences that I'm likely talking from behind myself, but those differences could also be explained away as a combination of various main settlements being moved around in whole or in part and geographical changes that happen to large pieces of land over time. I've also speculated in my own head as to whether or not the Great Sea is also further out into the oceans past those particular map borders, but that makes no sense to me.
I have tried laying a map of the Great Sea over BoTW's Hyrule to figure out which islands are which mountains, but next to none of it lined up. I tried this because there are so many easter egg-type inclusions from WW in BoTW that it got me wondering. I never did try laying it over other maps, though.
Got off-topic again. Anyhow, yes I believe Termina is real. As for the acid trip, I also have an idea for that one. Link hit his head when he fell from his horse, but I don't think it would have knocked him quite that silly, for the beating he took throughout OoT (depending on the player's experience, but technicalities aside). Since he was sensitive to the spiritual goings-on and general unrest that was creeping across Hyrule at the start of OoT and had nightmares from it, it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch for him to have picked up on Termina's own unrest during his unconscious state, but it probably didn't come through as clear as it did in Hyrule because he was a foreigner in Termina, and Hyrule was the land of his birth so there would be a stronger spiritual connection to it and the beings (physical and non) that lived there.
I'm interested in other peoples' takes on this.
I believe it's another mirror like Lorule I believe Majora is ganon counterpart sealed away same as Link in fierce diety there is no princess so possible that the ressurection curse chain was broken because the villian and hero are now immortal sealed away and the princess died eventually. In BoTW and BoTW2 trailer they have attempted different ways to break this cycle/curse and I think that this one was more or less successful.
I also can believe that it could be a neighbor country to Hyrule that is unknown because of its through the lost woods.
@@Durthane this is exactly why no one likes dream theories. they're too easy to find some kind of evidence of and too difficult to disprove because everything can be written off as part of the dream
THANK YOU ! Finally someone is making sense out of it !
In my opinion. Termina is real. I can't think of any other reason for The fused shadow to have matching eyes to Majora's mask.
Majoras mask existed in hyrule at one point, before the happy mask salesman was attacked by skullkid. So termina doesnt have to be real because of the fused shadow’s eyes
Edid: but then again, i think it is real because skullkid was there before he got the mask
Maybe majora's mask was inspired by the fised shadow. Besides, those eyes look totally sheikah
@@Max-si2zn twilight princess came AFTER majoras mask in game development, the fused shadow's eye was a detail to majoras mask by nintendo staff
@@nickolasgacha7185 lore wise though they are both ancient artifacts
@@askinnyball785 Exactly, that's exactly it! The *game itself* shows us Skull Kid playing with the fairies in Termina *before* it got the mask!
So the whole "Termina was created by Majoras Mask using its dark magic and Skull Kid's memories"-thing is complete nonsense, the only thing from the Zelda Encyclopedia I don't take seriously.
Termina is real and nobody can make me believe otherwise
Termina is real because the songs in twilight princess come from termina and Acarina of time
Preach brotha
Kassandra Hipkins
Nintedo specifically stated back during its release that Termina is a parallel universe and this is a hard FACT. Calling it otherwise is the equivalent of calling the Sacred Realm, Dark World, Lorule, or any other realm in the series a bizarre fever dream.
Nayru of the Zoras then why would they add the goron from termina into BOTW or why would a goron in majoras mask reference having eaten rocks from death mountain in hyrule?
Nayru of the Zoras Aonuma himself said it is not a dream world.
I think the dream theory is just lazy. Everything can be summed up to "it was just a dream", too simple. Termina is definitely an alternate universe.
that's a good point. it is a lazy way out. just like how everything can be summed up as, "the devs made a mistake or didn't think about consistency", but that would be taking the lazy way out, too, when a more interesting explanation could be created/could exist.
@@westingtyler2 Ocarina of Time was just a fabrication of BoTW Links mind while he was in a coma and nothing is real, yay
Yeah, you guys wouldn't even be into studying video games to the depth you did to say something was not in existence. If you are alive asleep or not, anything that you remember weather being in a dream state or awake had to happen because you remembered that so it has to exist. Something can only not exist if no subject matter was created in the first place. Idk, still waiting to afford a system to catch up on all the games. Don't mind because I'm sure if I get the chance it would be worth the time invested in playing
I was thinking comatose dream.
It could be a dream but it also could be what happens when you get lost know one will know also who and how would someone move a piano that big in 2 frames just to play 3 nots.
Just one minor fact-check: The Triforce can actually be found in Termina. It's on the bottom of the block-shaped statues that are found in the Stone Tower. There are some images of it and a theory in this pretty old Zelda Universe article - zeldauniverse.net/2006/11/03/the-stone-tower-why-termina-was-doomed/
Thank you, I just read that and it was awesome 😊
@Flying Melon Yeah. I don't think a Skull Kid ages (if at all), similar to Stal enemies.
In Skyward Sword, it is said that the TriForce can not be weilded by gods. So it makes sense that they created Termina (like they did with Hyrule), their creations turned against them and the Golden Goddesses tried to destroy it (or let them destroy themselves) but other Gods (the 4 giants) prevented the end of Termina.
I think Termina is real.
The Triforce missing almost completely from the land of Termina is good evidence, because the Triforce design is almost everywhere in Hyrule, so why wouldn't Link also put it into his dream? Why would his dreams specifically omit one of the most important parts of his own world?
actually, the triforce is shown in the stone temple's structure, but its shown in a kind of insulting way where its placed on the bottom of the human-looking block as part of its crotch at the tongue of the engraving is licking it. However, like you said why would link imagine the triforce in such a demeaning way
That is some very impressive subtext reading
The triforce is missing because it was destroyed like in Lorule. Then the sheikah(or termina equivalent) and the princess sealed away the hero and villian in masks to break the cycle...and it worked no princess to be heard of so she was never resurrected because the hero and villian are now immortal.
@@williammachie1176 Yeah, it is my own headcaonnon that the triforce is bound to reality, and destroying it means dooming your universe, but that the giants managed to safely separate it from reality and destroy it.
@@moemuxhagi Picture this: The giants wished with the triforce to make the triforce into masks, each representing a godess, and they would never be reunited again, nor their power be used. The End.
The people of ikana, hurt by the absence of the godesses only proof of existance, started to hate them and their symbol.
Is this acceptable?
Speaking of who created Termina, when you speak to that giant turtle in great bay, he says that the gods might allow him enjoying Lulu's voice before watching the world in his slumber. So that implies that there is gods in Termina.
Majora's Mask is definitely real. The analysis of the lost woods is too thin. If we think about the connection between skull kid; the endless, multifaceted, and unknown elements of the lost woods; as well as the deku Butler and his son and how the son is found in the first portion of the game and the deku scrub symbol closes us off from the early section then it is easy to see the lost woods connecting different worlds just as it did in the ocarina of time and how epona could have her own route to termina (undisclosed to the player).
Also it is the best game so it has to be real.
The kokiri forest is also set apart from Hyrule because it connects a few different worlds and serves as the first town in twilight princess and is connected to southern swamp in Majora's Mask.
Later we will find that Majora's Mask was created by the zonai
The zonai may aswell have created Lowrule, The sacred realm and the twilight realm while they’re at it
I think it is real, let me add something to the "carrying items out from Termina." The Hero's Bow from Twilight Princess has a direct connection to Majora's Mask. The in game description from TP is "You got the Hero's Bow! This treasure of the Gorons is said to have once belonged to a Hero from the past." The connection here is, Link in OOT needs the bow from the Forest Temple onward so in the child timeline he never has a need to go and get it. This bow is also called the "Fairy Bow." The Fairy Bow is then still locked away in the Forest Temple at the time of TP and since the bow he receives even states that this once belonged to a Hero from the past it could be one of 5 games before it, Skyward Sword, Minish Cap, Four Swords, OOT or MM. MM fits the best here due to it being the only one with the same name. Granted this does have holes in it, people can just rename a bow, simple enough answer and the name of the bow from Wind Waker is the same. Also as someone stated in the comments, why is a Skull Kid guarding the Master Sword in TP? Or the better question, What makes this Skull Kid important to the previous hero to have his trust to do so?
I never thought of that, and had i done so, should have put it in my comment
Kinda went ham with my reasoning lol
@@RikenzuPlays you did hit a lot of good points in yours. Your 4th point is a perfect example of showing how Termina is easily real in that sense with using other games as examples. I think LBW is the best example of that, because it shows that the travel can happen you just need to find the way through. Overall enjoyed reading yours.
I really love the points you provided, I would like to add that even if Termina doesn't exist you asked why would the Hero of the Past be so important to skull kid? Well I feel like there's two reasons 1) in OOT as a small part in the Mask side quest, Link actually meets and be friends Skull Kid and gives him a Skull Kid. One could even say skull kid only obtained the name Skull Kid after he got the Mask from Link. I have no evidence to back that up tho. The other point is that Link and Skull Kid share a key connection, they were both friends of Sahria. Maybe when she knew that she needed to attend her duties she told skull kid to guard the master sword until the Hero that is destined to wield the master sword appears. Just small ideas
It can’t be wind Walker since it’s on a different timeline. And I don’t know much about ss so I don’t know but I don’t think he had that much connection with the Gorons unlike the hero of time. Darunia literally named his child after him and calls him a true brother so it makes sense he left it with them
It’s gotta be real, or else Hero’s shade wouldn’t know the song of healing and the other MM songs in twilight princess
But, if i remember right, Hero's shade is Link from OoT. He would remember them from the dream, trance or what ever he was in when he was younger.
Thats a good point unless he recalled them from a dream like he remembers hearing those songs and can play them purely from memory so it could be possible
well if the songs were in his dream then he would still know the songs
But if it's just a dream within his own mind, how would be somehow get access to such powerful songs? You can't just make one up.
If Link knew it was a dream, then why would he want to use those songs in connection to the Twilight Link via Howling stones, when there was other "real songs" that he could have used?
Termina is real.
The point that the counterparts looks exactly like OOT models, so it’s a dream, doesn’t make sense to me: they made MM in a year and a half, they had to release it before the gamecube, so re-using the same character was a time-saving decision, not a lore-based one. They took the characters that they wanted, and created few others that they needed.
I agree
Though there is also the theory that Termina is just the "modern day" Lowrule (which is a mirror image of Hyrule, same people and all - save that there are usually a few key differences between them).
@@DBArtsCreators My extension of that theory is that Lorule is actualy Hyrule in the future, not a mirror dimension. With the Triforce in the possession of the Royal Family, hidden away as the Sealing Power, faith in the three goddesses all but disappeared. Eventually, Hyrule forgot about the importance of the Triforce and, seeing it bring about wars and ruin, destroyed it, turning Hyrule into a dark world, corrupting the people, gradually turning people into monsters, just as the Dark World did in LttP. Without hope, they use masks and technology to try to save themselves, shown in LBW's Lorule, and fortify themselves with the five stages of grief. This leads (or can lead if it isn't stopped) to the Termina we see in MM. Their history is forgotten, Triforce and Goddesses included. Masks and giants (divine beasts?) form their new method of hope. And the world crumbles to dust.
I also don't understand how an official product like Hyrule Encyclopedia calls Termina a "fabrication" of Majora's Mask or some fans call it a "dream" if Link, Epona and Happy Mask Salesman found their way into Termina and later all of them decided to leave.
Tatl and Tael even accompanied Skull Kid in and out of Lost Woods and met Link, why would Tatl freak out over Majora destroying Termina if it was just an illusion.
Yes but there has to be a lore based explanation for that, it can't just be that the canon in-universe answer is that the devs didn't have time to make new character models
I've always thought that not only is Termina real, but it is in fact Northern Hyrule; the starting point for The Adventure of Link!
We've got Ruto and Rauru Towns in the northern mountains, Mido Town and the King's Tomb in Ikana Canyon, and Saria Town by the Zora's Bay! And there's a swamp, too!
... Alright, so the geography doesn't match up perfectly, but remember how Death Mountain used to be to the west? And Spectacle Rock used to be to the North? Just sayin'...
It's definately real. Otherwise the hero's shade would've never sung the song of healing
This isn’t the best evidence even if it were a dream. He could’ve just remembered the song from his dream. I don’t agree with the dream theory, but there is much better evidence to disprove it than this.
But he would have remembered it from the dream that I’d Majoras mask
I think Termina is real too, but if Link really was just unconscious the Happy Mask Salesman could be a subconscious concept that Link may have been inspired to composed the Song of Healing himself whilst dreaming of Termina and all it’s inhabitants that resemble Hyrule’s. Just a thought.
Sang
Andrew Healis the best evidence is that Aonuma himself said that it was supposed to be another land.
I have always taken TP to confirm MM being real for a couple reasons, first: The Skull kid we see in the Lost Woods is almost certainly the same one from OOT and MM, considering he knows Saria's song, and more interestingly, his face almost seems to have taken on the look of the moon (perhaps a side effect of the mask's influence.)
The other set of details pointing to MM having happened are the description of the dark tribe that made the mask matching up with the Twili pretty nicely, and the similarities between the Fused Shadow, and Majora's Mask in appearance.
The masks salesman even describes the great lengths he had to go to obtain it, which almost seem to imply he may have found a way into the twilight.
Also, the Skull Kid knows where the Master Sword is and seems to be protecting it in TP, something he'd have no reason to do unless he was friends with the previous wielder before said wielder's passing.
Plus, this would prove that the skull kid is capable of living for a long time, meaning he can already have been ancient
I remember thinking much the same thing when playing TP for the first time.
I find it hard to believe that Link would hallucinate a dark relic acquired and carried by the Mask Salesman, too. He was literally just some random shopkeeper in Ocarina of Time, so for him to be central in Link's head above multiple prominent characters who Link was actually friends with just doesn't make the most sense.
@@karlykarlicious8465 Ah. but if the Majora's Mask reads the minds of people it touches, then it could be doing the constructing. It has been in contact with the Happy Mask Salesman for awhile.
Termina is an alternate universe. There are many characters that only appear in it, Skull Kids seem to be immortal, and the lost woods seems to never end in almost every game it appears in.
I kinda feel like “and it was all just a dream” is kind of too easy.... there’s definitely gotta be more to the games story and lore than that right? Idk
I always thought termina was real. I just think that's the most logical option
Yeah me too
Same
U should watch game theory's video on the whole moon thing its really cool
So does Aonuma.
So wait, you're not gonna mention that Ganondorf's sword in Wind Waker is made by the swordsmiths of Majora's mask?
A.M.P.M separate timeline technically so it’s probably more of an easter egg like majoras mask in links house in a link between worlds
If Termina exists on one timeline it should in another. It’s just more lost than any other timeline dude to the flood.
@@the_average_turtle Thing is, if Termina exists in Majora's mask, we have to keep in mind that the game would happen in the same time frame than Ocarina of Time, more precisely between Child Link's and Adult Link's adventures. If we admit this, it means that Termina existed DURING Ocarina of Time, which means the dimension is canon in all three timelines. Seeing this in this light, Ganondorf's sword might really be a product of Termina's swordsmiths.
When in the game do they said that it was made by the swordsmiths?? I can’t remember
@@pao-sol The sword has inscriptions on the blade which, once translated, says it's made by them.
I personally think it was a dream state practice run during the seven years he slept in the chamber of sages. That's why he got to do it over and over until he got it right.
during the "Termina isn't real" part of the video I was just screaming "TALK ABOUT TINGLE COWARD"
that combined with things like Tatl existing before Link hits his head, and how the Twilight Princess Skull Kid is likely the same one, i don't see how it can't be real.
therapist: Termina isnt real.... it cant hurt you.
Grinning Moon: 🌝 THREE DAYS! I WILL CONSUME!!!
Termina is defo exists in Zelda lore and deserves to be talked about in future vids! :)
People sometimes forget that MM is basically the mid-point in the Hero of Time Trilogy. From Ocarina to Majora to Twilight Princess, each entry has a connection to the other besides just Link/Hero's Shade. Ganondorf from Ocarina, and a magic mask from Majora both have a place in Twilight Princess. Ganon returns, and Midna's tribal heirloom has both Shiekah and Majora marks on it. I am beginning to think that, perhaps The Interlopers spoken of in Twilight Princess, may have been Literal Interlopers from another dimension - Magic users from the land of Termina that found their way into Hyrule. Perhaps they joined with corrupted elements of the Shiekah that existed at the time, and together they used their Magical abilities to create the Fused Shadow. That would explain why it had both Majora and Shiekah markings on it. After their attempt to steal the Triforce failed and they were banished to the Twilight Realm - they eventually evolved into their TP forms. Midna, as future Princess of the Twilight Realm, would have inherited part of the Fused Shadow (what she wears as an imp).
@@nillynush4899 You should post this on the zeldaconspiracy reddit!
I wouldnt even care if it was a frickin fever dream I'd want them to give Link another fever dream just so we could visit Termina again 😂
Toby Hanke same
Agreed
I've always liked the idea of the different realms all being parallels to one another, with only slight differences... and over time those slight differences lead each realm to develop far more substantial differences, becoming the different realms we know. (Perhaps they could even be considered alternate timelines to one another where their differences lead them to become known by different names)
Lorule is obviously the closest to Hyrule, which I assume a goddess other than Hylia (Lolia would make sense) watched over, and with a different goddess guiding the people there, different decisions were made, resulting in the differences between Lorule and Hyrule.
The Twilight Realm I interpret as being a realm where, like Hyrule, it's people evacuated to the sky, but evil won, leaving the ground clouded in darkness and the sky in a state of perpetual twilight... unable to survive the twilight, the natives eventually died, but when the interlopers were banished there, their magic allowed them to survive, becoming the Twili we know.
Termina I think is actually a world where evil was completely eradicated... perhaps rather than creating a Triforce for that realm the Goddesses imbued the hero with their power directly, giving him god-like powers (becoming the Fierce Diety), which allowed him to defeat the source of evil in that realm... I don't recall any evidence of true evil in Termina, only differences in opinion or misunderstandings... the whole story of the game basically boils down to Skull Kid going to extreme measures to get Link to play with him... there's nothing evil about that.
"Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?" - Dumbledore
I think Termina is real. They wouldn't do the whole " it was just a dream all along" thing for no reason. Link's Awakening made narrative sense, but Majora's Mask?
What about phantom hourglass?
@@greeninja5991 SPOILERS. Just in case anyone hasn't played it.
I warned ya.
Phantom Hourglass takes place in the Realm of the Ocean King, which considering that Linebeck and the Hourglass come out of it (which are very specifically pointed out in game, not just speculations) then that realm is definitely real. Not Hyrule, or even New Hyrule, but almost definitely real.
@@greeninja5991 Phantom Hourglass is tough one... Theres alot going on in PH, but its all quite vague. I personally think its a redeemption arc for the Hero of Winds, but the story (and game design) is poorly constructed and inconsistant. For instance, Link must obtain the three sacred metals in order to make the Phantom Sword. Unless I misread something somewhere, there is only one unit of each metal, but at the same time, the Phantom Sword has been made before, hence why there is blacksmith who knows how to make another. I do not know what to make of Phantom Hourglass.
@@greeninja5991 The main reason people think Phantom Hour Glass is a dream (as far as I've seen) was a misunderstanding of the ending. During the ending Mako says something along the lines of "Was it just a dream" when Tetra is explaning what happened.
@@arcticdino1650 Also, I think mistranlations are common in Zelda.
An argument for proving that Termina is real could be that the Hero’s Shade sings the Song of Healing to Wolf Link. How could The Hero of Time have learned this without actually being in the world of Termina?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._7_(Bruckner)
Just one example, but there are many of people dreaming not only new pieces of music, but even mathematical formulas and breakthroughs.
There's also that in Twilight Princess the Hero's Bow was said to be left behind by a previous hero and guarded by the Gorons as a sacred treasure. Who had the Hero's Bow before TP Link? The Hero of Time. Who had a strong relationship with the Gorons and was the chief's "sworn brother?" The Hero of Time. The Hero's Bow was only in Majora's Mask. In Ocarina of Time it was the Fairy Bow meaning if Majora's Mask never happened and was only a dream, the Hero's Bow wouldn't exist
Yeah okay, I'm sure after all that brain damage Link can really remember several songs that he learned in a single dream. Not only that, but remembering these songs past death sounds ridiculous.
Sam Brown yes yes yes yes yes
Personally, I like to believe that Termina is real, both because I don’t like “it all happened in their head” theories, as well as the fact that the Happy Mask Salesman is one of my favorite characters in the series, and the level of creepy and evil aura that he just has to him is amazing and I love to believe that that’s real.
“It all happened in their head” Can work for literally any game, film, or even for real life!
Basically, life is just all that happens in your head.
Just because a dream isn't real doesn't mean that it was based on real things a lot of what happened in MM could have reflected link's trama in OOT of losing his friends like Sariah and that is why death is a common theme in this game.
I can agree that the Masked Salesman is a mysterious and supernatural being, but not evil. That doesn't square the the MS conversation with link at the end of MM, where he states Link was able to "make a lot of people happy" and congratulates him for it. That would indicate he is some sort of angel-like or possibly god-like being sent as a "guardian" or "aid" to Link.
If Termina is real, and all that really happened, and the Skull Kid really is ancient, then it also explains his appearance in Twilight Princess. Guarding the Master Sword, because Link asked him to.
I do believe that Termina is real, the "Termina is a dream" arguments are just too easy in my opinion, even if "the" skullkid being there is weird, but like Navi in OoT says, children in the lost woods can become skullkids, which implies there can be more than one skullkid, so the skullkid in MM doesn't necessarily need to be the OoT one, right? Edit: ok yes he could be the same one haha good points guys
In addition I don't believe the Termina characters are counterparts of OoT characters. I tend to keep in mind that MM was made in a very short amount of time and they just reused all of those character models without them being the same character per se, haha.
There are three skull kids in OoT so there are definitely multiple skull kids.
"You're that kid who taught me that song in the forest." I'm paraphrasing, but it's in the game.
In the end of MM the skull kid said to link "you have the same smell as the kid who taught me that song in the Forrest." So he's definitely the same SkullKid
As an Aside, that SkullKid could be the same one from Twilight Princess as well, being that he knew Saria's song and played it throughout the Forrest while guiding twilight link to the secret place to pick up the Master Sword, and temple of time.
Just saying, Link would have the same "smell" as Saria so to speak since they both grew up in the Kokiri Forest. Saria could have taught her song to the Skull kid, and then Skull Kid from MM simply recognized the smell.
@Legend Zone, doesn’t that still mean that the skull kid in termina was originally in hyrule since saria is in hyrule?
You can't compare it to Link's Awakening. In LA there are tons of hints, plus characters and bosses constantly tell you to either wake up or keep sleeping.
Other than duplicate characters there's really no hints or drops that this could be a dream.
There's more than just the Mayor, too. His wife and son have no counterparts, plus there's unique Deku Shrub and Zora characters.
Ikanaians and Garo are unique, too.
There's just not enough to go on.
LA also had the Wind Fish dreaming too, making the island real.
Skullkid with the mask is powerful enough to no doubt teleport Epona.
I see no strong arguments for the dream version.
ive got to say, i love the vibe of your videos. youre probably one of my favourite zelda youtubers
my green cap goes to "is real". the evidence given for its proof is quite educated and the "is fake" sounds like a cover-up. (but not without its points) a good difference between the 2 are the fact he keeps his gear. if it were a dream state, he would've lost it all like in awakening. speaking of which, the (does a quote count as a spoiler?)
windfish even tells you that "even though the residents of koholint were a figment of my imagination, they will continue to be real so long as you keep them in your memory"
Considering that originally it was considered a parallel world (even in the game's manual) then I would say it is 100% real. There's also the Ikana, the Garo, Kafei, Mayor Dotour, Madame Aroma, and so many other new characters and elements in the game that aren't from Hyrule.
As for the Encyclopedia, it's specifically mentioned that it is the interpretation of the authors. Not canon. As with everything in the series, interpretation takes a large part in the idea that it's not real, but since most of the evidence for it not being real is speculation while the evidence for it being real is specifically given in-game, I think it's safe to say that Termina is VERY real.
So is it a parallel world? And not some other country that for mysterious reason has characters that look exactly like those of Hyrule
@@ChaoticHoly Gotta agree with you there. It's a shame we never saw a Terminian equivalent to zelda though
@@ApersonIguess-rb6fu There's even some slight hints that Kafei, the man who was turned into a child (sound familiar?) is parallel to Link, the Hero of Time.
Quit taking one piece of one quote in one of the Goddess Trilogy books out of context to support your headcanon. The Encyclopedia IS canon. It was thoroughly and carefully supervised, authorized, and helped made by the Zelda devs themselves. That IS the official explanation for Termina’s existence - it was indeed a real parallel world, but one which ceased to exist after Majora was defeated.
@NinjaGamer13 "Where necessary, the writers [who aren't Nintendo] of this book added their own interpretations and expanded upon the games' stories. It should be noted that the events described here are also subject to revision, as new trials may await the people of Hyrule in ages to come."
-Quote from Hyrule Encyclopedia
They literally admit that some of this stuff is never confirmed, and the writers either made up or drew conclusions which they used in the book. I'm not saying that the book is useless, I've read and enjoyed it for some time now. But the games are the true canon, not the extra reference sources. The developers have stated over and over about how the series is open to interpretation, and I doubt they'd just throw that away and say "forget it, listen to this book now."
Although the video states that it's easier to disprove that Termina is real, I felt the evidence backing up its existence was more solid and convincing while the evidence disproving it was just thrown to agree with that hypothesis haha
I think that the events of Majora's Mask are real. Link's Awakening(GBA and Switch) had an ending scene with Link waking up with nothing. If Link woke up in Majora's Mask, Link wouldn't have his equipment in the credits, unless there was a scraped end credit scene.
MatPat argued that the game represents the Kübler-Ross model (5 stages) of grief and makes some really good points. However, it makes more sense that it's about Navi leaving him, rather than his own death though (which MatPat even brings up but dismisses). She's the reason he's in the woods in the first place. So, he falls off Epona, hits his head, and has the fever dream of Termina, when he can deal with his emotions about Navi just peacing out at the end of OoT without a word.
I think it does exist, in Links Awakening they tell you directly that its a dream, while they dont in majoras mask.
Also parallel worlds are cool :D
One of the developers of Majora’s Mask said that Termina lies closely to Hyrule.
I don't get why they just can't leave it as "Termina is a parallel world". How would it be in the same universe if most of the NPCs look exactly like characters from OoT. There's just so much that implies it's a parallel world and not some other country. The whole "it was just a dream" explanation is honestly lame if you ask me.
Oooh that is interesting I wonder if the mario has somthing similiar to Termina
It could be "close" to Hyrule in the sense of some Parallel Worlds/Dimensions being "close" to some more than others.
Imagine every Parallel World is suspended, or floating, in some void, like our Solar System. Some worlds would be closer than others, just like how Earth is much closer to Mars than Neptune.
What if just like in Mario 64 with all the paintings, the lost woods are just portals to parallel world's?
@@elitegamer9310 To be frank, they wanted to make a new game but were forced to reuse assets and crunch to put out a game in under a year. This was their tradeoff for not having to make an Ocarina of Time expansion. They clearly intended Termina to be a new and very real place.
Well the idea that the Skull Kid is ancient, therefore being possibly immortal, would explain his possible appearance in Twilight Princess, which is set centuries after Majora's Mask.
Remember when before he gets to termina he walks through a weird maze and ends up in the clock tower somehow? He walked through a transport portal into termina, its in an alternate universe, that happy mask salesman is the same one from ocarina of time as well, he even said at the beginning that he ran the happy mask shop
I like to think that there was a real version of the legends behind Termina, but you're seeing it through the lens of the Stolchild's mind, using Link's perception and memories to tell the stories involved. So, a story being told about Majora using the kid as a writer but Link as the typewriter.
Omg it’s plaguee
The mayor isn’t the only brand new character though. The bombers are brand new aren’t they? And most of the unique Gorons and Zora are new. ALL of the unique Deku Scrub tribe are new. I also find it strange that, if Termina is a figment of Link’s delirium, why aren’t there any Kokiri or characters based on them? Surely those characters would be extremely important to Link (especially Saria) and would play big roles in his dream?
Nah, my vote definitely goes to Termina being an alternate reality. The entrance being located in a tree isn’t that surprising if you think about the forest that tree is found in: the Lost Woods. A place chock full of magic and mystery.
The bombers were created from the model of the kid in the graveyard that wants to be like Dampé... but other than that I think you're right about all the other new models.
I believe there is actually someone who could be based on Saria, though she's an adult and not a child.
Yes, Lost Wood is full of magic and mystery! Portals to other worlds may very well exist there. Remember, in OoT there were two portals there as well; one to Goron City and one to Zora's River.
I’ve not enjoyed an ad in a long time :) 👍👍 well done
I want to say "Real", but the lack of a Straw Poll means that my vote probably won't count.
My guy you shouldn't worry about the even if they decide to go against the reality .the worst you can say why it's not real is that it's a and that's pretty much it but in terms of the lore of the story there's a lot of evidence stacking up against termina being real instead of fake like it was all a dream and Link used to read word Up magazines
I personally like to believe that Termina is real! While I can see the logic behind 'oh link just hit his head when he was knocked off his horse', the really compelling thing that makes Termina real to me is the ending. Link traveling back into the lost woods. In OoT, we have no way of knowing just how expansive the woods really are, so the possibility that Termina is just adjacent to Hyrule seems pretty plausible to me! Far enough to have little effect on Hyrule (especially since the kingdom is essentially walled off by cliffs) but near enough that a kid and his young horse could feasibly make it there and back in just a few days time.
I think it has to be more supernatural, as there are so many echoes of ocorina of time characters and so I think it might be sorta real, new and yet ancient. Has only just been created by the tree event, but also has a rich and storied history. Best explanation is the last continent by Terry Pratchett I guess
Please keep the termena theory’s I love them 😍
Thank you for listening
Hey Masked, love the theories, and your channel single-handedly got me back into Zelda! (Just beat the Main Story of BoTW!)
But, I comment today to disprove the Dream Theory, if you care to give my comment a read. While I think it's mostly solid and indisputable, there actually is one big flaw with it - the Mayor. At 8:35 you mentioned how the Mayor was a completely new character amongst a sea of recurring characters. However, psychologically speaking, it's physically impossible for the brain to make something completely new up! :D
That's why dreams are made entirely of recurring things such as people you know, familiar places, etc - it's because you can't dream of anything else. So, the Mayor being a new character means that Link quite literally can't be dreaming, else the Mayor would have to be someone he already knew.
I really really hope you give this a read! Love your content! :)
Also, continuing on with that previous thought of Dreams being impossible to create new things - that also is supported by The Great Bay, Woodfall Temple, Snowhead Temple, etc.
There isn't anything quite like them in Hyrule, so it's impossible for Link to have dreamed about it (^3^)
I definitely think it's real, plus... Wasn't there also a Darmani depiction in BotW? That wasn't DLC so it helps prove it along with other evidence already pointed out by others too.
Termina is Real 2401
:D
My headcanon has always had this down to a simple statement;
Hyrule has an immense, impassable desert to it's West
Whereas Termina (thanks in big part to the Twinmold fight location confirming it) has an immense, impassable desert to it's East
Has anyone ever actually scrutinised this particular idea?
Also, my "Termina is not real" headcanon is basically - Termina is a land where all kids lost in the Lost Woods will visit. Whether they escape and stay as a human or become a fully-fledged Skull Kid is entirely dependent on them traversing this land and finishing the quest set out for them. Termina represents "The Self", and the fate of the Moon crashing down signifies the destruction of "The Self" and the rebirth as a Skull Kid - Skull Kid himself in this theory representing "The New Self", the thing Link will become if he cannot overcome the obstacles placed before him
Thats very deep and very interesting way to interprate the world of majoras mask
I really like both of those
The "deserts being connected" logic doesn't really fit... If the Desert Colossus in Hyrule was connected to Ikana Valley in Termina, then how did Link get there from the Lost Woods? You gotta remember, Kokiri Forest and the Lost Woods were on the opposite side of Gerudo Desert in Ocarina of Time's Hyrule. Going east to get to a country that is in the west makes no sense at all, especially if your entry point puts you in the center of said country.
But to the people saying "Termina isn't Real", then wouldn't that mean that the Lorule isn't real either? They are both alternate dimensions that exist parallel to Hyrule, and they each have dopplegangers of people who exist in Hyrule. Link, Zelda, Ganon and Dampe had counterparts in Lorule, and pretty much every lesser NPC (excluding the Kokiri) in Ocarina of Time's version of Hyrule had a counterpart in Termina.
@@meleefox3218 your point about the desert is completely valid, however when entering the Twinmold battle from Stone Tower Temple, you get to the desert through a kind of portal. The entrance to Termina through the Lost Woods could also exist as a portal, with all it's weird colourful clocks and masks.
My theory is that Termina is real, not so much as a parallel universe but a distant land, and the only reason Link manages to get there is because of the strange portal. It's not entirely impossible as warping to other locations within the same world is VERY commonplace in the Zelda series, inlcuding in OoT and MM themselves. Termina could quite well be on the other side of the world from Hyrule. I know this doesn't explain the counterparts of Hyrulean citizens like Malon/Romani and so on, but I think there were enough new models in MM to suggest that the reused models are not supposed to be parallels, but was just a result of the time constraints the developers were under.
Anyways, I think Termina is real in some shape or form, and more MM content is always appreciated. :)
@@meleefox3218 The thing is, we see Link travel to many different lands throughout the whole series and through many different ways
Portal through the Lost Woods into Termina
The Triforce itself transporting Link to Holodrum (Oracle of Seasons) and Labrynna (Oracle of Ages), and then the further land of Subrosia which, even though it's physically located underneath Holodrum, is only accessible via Portals
Subrosia is important, because it sets the precedent that just because a landmass exists, doesn't mean it's easily accessible, or even accessible at all through normal means - Even though Subrosia is literally below Holodrum (we know 100% that Subrosia is below Holodrum as the Temple of the Seasons is sunken from Holodrum and ends up in Subrosia), you can't dig your way into it. You can only get there via the Portals presumably created by the Subrosians
Similarly, if you can't dig your way through Holodrum into Subrosia? Maybe you can't cross the Gerudo Desert into Termina. For whatever reason yet unexplained, portals are the answer to many of Link's problems :P
Koholint was more than just a regular dream, thanks to the power of the Wind Fish. It had its own reality. I believe that Termina also "exists" in some sense, and does have some impact on the Hyrule we know.
One thing I can say about the epona theory is that time works differently in termina than it does in Hyrule, from the time link bumps into skull kid to when he meets majora down the tree stump it was only a few moments for the player but to majora it must’ve been at least a few days since he was able to cause a lot of trouble for the people of termina. when first meeting skull kid at the beginning of the game he wasn’t being controlled by majora just yet , so it could’ve been a gradual process. When meeting with majora at the bottom of the tree stump I would assume it was shortly after he got full control of skull kids body considering tadl and tale were still with him , unlike at the end of the game where he ends up abusing tale and tadl renouncing their friendship , giving light that tadl had no idea about skull kids possessions and also showing how scared tale is of majora. Saying all that , it’s more likely termina is in an alternate dimension, lots of the characters from ocarina of time to majoras mask have their personality reversed . It wouldn’t be the first time a Zelda game had alternative counterparts for the characters of the game ,there should be enough time before skill kids full possession to have “ gotten rid “ of epona, all skull kid did was play pranks.
I think Termina is real! There’s no reason for it not to be: the fact that everyone looks like someone from OoT is due to the time constraints they had when making the game.
In the wise words of Dumbledore: : "Of course it's happening inside your head. But why does that mean it isn't real?"
Im not sure if Termina is real BUT i think it should be used for theories either way because it still holds tangible lore that relates and ties into other games
Guy1811 good to see one with appreciation for both the Harry Potter and Zelda universes.
This was a good play bandit, smart. keep up the good work.
I personally believe that Termina exists as the kingdom west of Hyrule in OoT. So let's combine the two maps and see how close we get. The biggest border similarity is the ruined kingdom of Ikana and Gerudo Desert/Valley. The Lost woods is most likely far greater in size than we anticipate as well. I presume it wraps around the southern side of Lake Hylia. And a quick reminder that the Lost Woods is connected to both Death Mountain and Zora's Domain. Now what if a little more westward Lake Hylia and the Lost Woods merge together? Combine a forest and a large body of water and you get a swamp which just so happens to be right around Woodfall. And to top it all off a Northwestern ice mountain...hmmm. That map sounds relatively familiar. It just so happens to be almost the entirety of Hyrule in Botw. The freezing heights and plateaus are the remants of Ikana, the Gerudo desert being south of that, and Snowhead being north of that. And east of the gerudo desert is a covered wooded area south of Lake Hylia no less. If the land expanded further west, you'd likely find Clock Town more swamp area further south of the desert, and of course furthest west being Great Bay. And across the several thousand years that have passed since the hero of time are likely the cause of any further map discrepancies.
As for the counterparts of characters, well all I can say is that Termina and Hyrule are on the same continent leading to people having the same races. Whether it be immigration, or natural occurrence I couldn't say, but I lean towards immigration due to the Goron's no way thriving in Snowhead in comparison to Death Mountain, meanwhile the Zora's would thrive much more in Great Bay over Zora's Domain. And Darmani was carved on Death Mountain in Botw too. So it's likely Daruk was just as much of a significance to the Death Mountain Gorons as Snowhead. (I wish I could throw Twilight Princess mapping into this since Botw 2 is apparently going to have quite a significance from Twilight Princess but my history is too rocky with the game. I play the Wii version just as much as the WiiU version and I don't really know the canonical map nor could I say which one belongs to which game. XD )
I'd like to put in my vote for Termina being real. LoZ has done the whole 'it was all a dream' thing before and as far as I remember its always been more or less explicit about it. Also I'm just not a huge fan of stories that end with 'haha it was all a dream!' Link's Awakening being an exception because there was a good reason for it that didnt feel like a coup out. (Also the fact it took place in a minor deities dream means the real/not real bit is a debatable thing)
Tingle comes from Majora's Mask, though probably as apart of a fever dream, the ongoing presence of Tingle in other mainline games shows a connection. It's possible that the neighboring countries of Hyrule have a different mythos for how the world came to be. Skyward Sword had the dragons take on the names of the Goddesses, but that doesn't mean the story behind OoT mythos needs to apply to every other game.
The biggest debunk of the MM was just a dream, Nintendo would own up to it. They did so for USA Mario 2 and Links Awakening, it would be explicitly stated if it was a dream.
Honestly I've always believed that termina was always just some kind of illusion world that uses things you are familiar with to create something new.
Everything that came from hyrule can not be destroyed because it is basically the source code for the world hence why epona is alive while with skull kid I believe that termina time is different than hyrule time therefore skull kid is from hyrule and then came across termina the illusion world and the giants representing the world itself gave him what he wanted (friends) until they started to work on making the world and skull kid left in rage coming across the happy mask salesman and then met link and when they both went into termina the giants already having the base for there world ( how big it is and what it looks like) and now wanting to add life discover link and use his memories to start life in termina (they change some things slightly because when you copy stuff you want to at least change things a bit to make it more of yours.) And due to the change in time we dont know how long skull kid and link were away from termina in termina time. And since its 12 PM I'm going to bed now goodnight.
It's somewhat implied that in twilight princess the skull kid protecting the master sword is the same skull kid from ocarina of time / majoras mask, under that impression it's pretty easy to believe that the skull kid is in fact ancient, and could have been alive for thousands of years both before and after the events of ocarina of time / majoras mask.
The skull kid in twilight princess could also be the same skull kid from majora's mask. Also the bow you get in twilight princess shares a name with the one in majora's mask.
Sleepy B0i
The bow is assumed to be from termina and then given away in hyrule
Great video as always my friend! I tend to avoid talking about Termina in that sense too at times because I don't look forward to the "It's REAL" and "It's NOT Real" comments haha
Personally I think it is real based on the evidence we know :)
(Thumbnail looks great btw!)
Exactly!! I figured it was time to finally come to a conclusion about this issue once and for all :) And thank you for the compliment to the thumbnail!!
I like the thumbnail too, it looks kinda cool to me
The 'Link is dead' theory only really works if the game takes place in a death like dream at the end of Link's life, his soul attempting to do what it couldn't in life and somehow ending up in the weirdest most colorful Purgatory imaginable.
Don't forget, in one of the games after,(I think TP) MM has the Hero's Bow, which adds credence to the idea he brought his Termina gear with him
I think that Termina exists as a parallel world, just like how Lorule exists as a parallel world. Termina is just a parallel world where they don't worship the gods, and a few other changes with the same people who are slightly different.
I still like to think that Termina is real and NOT a figment of Link's imagination
I've often interpreted Termina as like a premonition of things to come - regardless of whether that's as a dream or as literal transport to a land in the future. The child timeline has a constant running theme of empathy for the shadow (Link's lived experience in OoT, Tael, Skull Kid, Midna and even FSA's Ganondorf). You could argue that this could also be said of Ravio, thing is that the downfall timeline concludes with Link killing his shadow.
I think you make good points on both sides, but a couple of the points you made for termina not being real I had a couple questions about if you see this :)
1. The portal between worlds being weird. Very much so, but I think the portals to lorule are equally quirky and trippy, so I'm not sure that proves anything for either side.
2 When you say the in the end cutscene that link could still be asleep and it explains why the woods seem to be endless. I think with it being the lost woods, especially on modern designs being more open and seemingly endless, it might just be a better interpretation of the woods from the sequel maybe?
3. In regards to the skull kid having been alive for so long, bearing in mind the crazy time distortions you can perform in termina, goodness knows what you could be capable of if you know how to play around with it. Weakest of my points I think but yknow, if he really has existed this long in this world then maybe he has more power or longevity that we expected haha.
Anyhow, great video, I think im slightly leaning towards termina being real, but only by a smidge, would love to hear your opinion!
To me, the "realness" of Majora's Mask is all hinged on how you view the Lost Woods. The Lost Woods are known to have a teleporting quality, for instance in BoTW when you don't follow the glowing wisps you get "lost" and get teleported back to the start. With this in mind it's entirely possible that the Lost Woods have more capabilities than previously thought.
The Lost Woods might actually have a sentience that hasn't been explored in the games as of yet. I think the Lost Woods are inherently misunderstood. They're such a magical and mysterious entity of LoZ that is named "Lost" because of what happens to non-kokiri people who wander in it's reach. Perhaps it is more of a magical forest with unknown properties, largely unknown due to most people not making it out of the forest. Think of it more like a void than a physical place.
While Link was looking for Navi, it's entirely possible the Lost Woods teleported him to Termina to help the people of this alternate dimension who were in need of a hero. Also Link having the Ocarina of Time is the other big reason I'd imagine he was selected to be teleported. If the Lost Woods had tried to send other people to save Termina then they likely would have all failed with the timeline of three days to do it. Link was different because the Lost Woods knew he wouldn't give up and knew he could revert time enough times to save that alternate universe.
Also like you mentioned in your video, Link leaves with different items than he entered with. This in and of itself proves its a real place.
The Deku Trees are sentient, magical and intelligent beings, so the idea that the trees of the Lost Woods are the same isn't even that much of a stretch.
One hundred percent agree
Might it have been inspired by the Wood Between Worlds from the Narnia books? :D
It’s a bit hard to dismiss as a dream when the franchise has done 100% real universes other than Hyrule so, so many times. That is definitely not concrete evidence, but I definitely lean towards the “real” side
I mean one of the creators (Miyamoto If I remember right) of MM did say in interview that, it was not a dream, it really happened and is in fact a real place link traveled too..
The simple fact you are willing to base that bit around fanbase and put your efforts into it if they decide so is more than enough to make me subscribe.
I personally think Termina might have been real, but I don't have my mind made for sure.
Entertaining video and points of view, thanx for the content!
*I believe Termina is real, mostly because there's no reason for it not to be. Alternate dimensions are all over the place in Zelda, and the portals between them don't always make sense. I mean... Lorule and Hyrule are literally linked by cracks in the wall, so why not have them linked by a tree in the Lost Woods?
*Skull Kid's presence from the start also makes sense- when it comes to alternate dimensions, time can be... wonky. Who's to say Skull Kid didn't originally make his way into the portal at a time when the timeline was just starting on Termina's end, but when he left, mere seconds had passed in Hyrule- Narnia style? Or maybe he even made his way through a portal that's synced to a different point in the timeline to begin with?
*The woods being endless can be easily passed off as them being the Lost Woods, too. As some other commenters have mentioned, songs Link learned in Termina still have power in Twilight Princess.
*This comment is a bit all over the place, but essentially: I completely believe Termina is real.
Im so glad you did a theory on Majora's mask it's my favorite game of all time
I like your profile picture
you made very good points but and I need more time and information to pick a side but I wasn't aware that link was riding off with is stuff.
The flower next to the tree stump with the drawing on it sort of reminds me of the silent princess flowers from BOTW.
while Link's Awakening is a Dream Game and The Phantom Hourglass too there have also been games with alternate universes, A Link Between Worlds and then there are all the games with different dimensions, The Spirit Realm in Skyward Sword, The Twilight Realm in Twilight Princess, any of the games with a Dark World, so I think it's more likely on the Termina is real and is another Dimension/World and so that is what I'm siding with.
Was phantom hourglass a dream? I was under the impression it had all happened, what with the final scene being Linebeck sailing away from the ghost ship in Links world as apposed to the one he had been traveling in, plus meeting Linbecks…(Son? Grandson? can't remember) in Spirit Tracks.
@@blitsriderfield4099 LA and PH take place in dream-WORLDS. They are not just dreams, they are real people being brought into a dream. Their experiences are real while they are there, but the worlds end when the dreamer awakens. That's kinda the whole point. And like Marin who wished to be a seagull, Linebeck was rewarded by the dreaming deity for playing a pivotal role in its survival.
The Legend of Zelda Encyclopedia states that Termina is in fact a parallel world. Nowhere does it state that it's a dream or even a dream-world. However, Termina does cease to exist when Link leaves as presumably the magic from the mask that was sustaining it runs out. The dream theory ironically has no real basis and is just a gross oversimplification.
@@TrueKoalaKnight AHH...got it.
@@blitsriderfield4099 It was and wasn't a dream, it was a creation of Bellum and the Ocean King so at the end of the game Link and Tetra teleport back and are told it's only been ten minutes since they left and they can see Linebeck's ship so it actually is more of a Dimension/World game now that I think about it thanks for pointing that out!
Please talk about Terminian counterparts in all future videos!!!
Also amazing Raycon promo, was super creative!!
I liked the ad too
What if Termina is normally time dilated in a way where time moves faster compared to Hyrule? It could explain why Epona is where she is despite Skullkid not shown to have teleportation abilities (at least on screen).
Don't see why it's hard to imagine Skull Kid being much older than he looks and sounds, considering that the one you meet during Twilight Princess plays Saria's song, and the game being set in the child timeline along with Majora's Mask. The only thing that really throws some doubt into the mix is how his face appears to have changed from the scarecrow-like one from the N64 games, to something that sort of resembles the mask that once controlled him, though that could be chalked up to a stylistic difference given Twilight Princess was meant to be "realistic" looking due to the clamor of some fans.
Termina is real because when skull kid “got rid of” Epona it killed her and link takes the termina version of epona back to hyrule
Das dark
@@AlexPerez-tv1zg It's Majora's Mask, what do you expect?
Oh no...... not our baby....
That actually makes sense I never thought of that
My thought it that he just tossed her into Termina where she just ran about until she ended up at the ranch
"When did I make this many videos??"
I don't know, but I'm glad you made all this Zelda content 😄
I think the fact that the music and some of the relics still exist after Majora's Mask, mainly in Twilight princess, and that I believe that the Twilight Realm has connection Majora's origins, Termina was real or at least as real as the island in Link's awakening.
Even if the world no longer exists, it was tangible and had true life in it.
To counter your counter against Termina being real. To the quote about the trees looking endless, they looked endless in the beginning. "Link hasn't awoken from his dream state when we saw the tree trunk and him leaving on Epona." We don't see Link at the Tree Trunk, so how could the tree trunk be a dream and its highlighted after we see him leave? That drawing could've been made by Skull Kid well off after Link left. Also the official Manuel of the game says Termina is a parallel world.
I think it is real. The parallel world theory states: people lead completely different lifes, and may even be the opposite gender in a parallel world.
Termina is 100% real.
The Hero’s Shade in Twilight Princess even sports some Ikana-looking armor.
I do think termina is an alternate dimension for a few reasons- first, the way time works so differently. The ocarina of time has an even more pronounced effect there, despite not being in hyrule, so it could be a skewed version of Link's homeland, and time being different could explain why the skullkid seems to have been there so long. Second, The world itself, while not having the same lore as Hyrule is quite similar- a group of gods come together to create a land and peoples to populate its varied locations. They eventually leave, but promise to return to use their power if they are called ( gathering the triforce for a divine wish.) Majora is a demonic entity somewhere in the lands past that wants only to toy with the people and cause chaos and destruction (Demise) who is brought down by a stronger being (Fierce Diety?/Link) and held at bay for a period of time in a prison of sorts( mask/ reincarnation as Ganondorf) until they are released into the world again. Obviously this could easily be picked apart, but the timeline is nothing if not full of holes in logic, and I feel like the dream aspect is kind of a lazy way to justify the game.
I personally think Termina takes place in a different realm/timeline/plain. And the tree link enters is similar to that of Ygdrasil in the way it links all other dimensions. But his particular entrance took him to termina.
i think WE’RE not real. 😳
(no no but seriously i think.... that termina does exist)
Memory terrible…
But I though somewhere in-game, or the manual included with the N64 cartridge, it's stated Skull Kid went to Hyrule after being scolded and thinking all of Termina hated him…
Meaning they started in Termina, only returning after the mask convinced them to enact punishment.
As for why he doesn't look much like an imp; he was transformed by the lost woods. Or, that's just what imps of Termina look like, and while in the lost woods, the woods choose their appearance transform others into; or that whole transforming thing is just another of skull kids pranks.
Majora's mask happened.
I've also not noticed references to the CDI games nor Hyrule Warriors in Zelda games that came after them-all four of which are non-canon.
Since Majora's mask is referenced newer Zelda games, I consider it canon-real.
I like Majoras Mask being in an in between state. Just adds to the mystery of an already mysterious game.
well there was this manga comic centered around how majora and the fierce diety. I cant remember the name of it but I remember a synopsis. Basically majora was a dragon in his life, guarding a sacred treasure. He protected it for years against selfish people trying to get it. Then one day, the fierce diety appeared, and instead of fighting majora like everyone else, he played the speed up song of time. Majora then proceeded to age and age until he died, where the fierce diety proceeded to turn him into a mask. Personally I believe that whatever happened to majora to make it so cursed happened, the entirety of oot happened and so we're back to link riding through the forest with skullkid stalking him. Skullkid, under the influence of majora, sees link and finds he looks eerily similar to the fierce diety. Majora instantly goes to the suggestion that he IS the diety and so skullkid begins to start trouble with him. Majora then proceeds to help skullkid lure who he thinks is who killed him into a fake reality of his making, in hopes of destroying him and trapping whatever is left in a far off plane of existence, much like what happened to majora. Later on inside the moon, when you start the final battle between majora and yourself, the moon kid states that you two will play a game of good guy vs bad guy, and then calls you the bad guy. Sure this could just be referring to majora's bloated ego that he's going to win but taking what happened in that manga into light, plus the fact that you can wear the diety mask during the battle, it kinda puts things into light.