Wondering about oil. Saw video on TH-cam about fixing tick. Person fixed the problem by going 5w30 weight engine oil from factory recommended 0w20. What do you think ? Thanks
@ReignitedAuto. What are your thoughts on the metal running through the oiling system. My sons 13 Ram is in this condition. My concern is with all the metal in the oil and it’s not much more to pull the motor and do a full rebuild. Cam, crank and rod bearing cleaning oil passages etc.
@MiguelSanchez-nd4bv Chrysler's official answer to this: pull the oil control valve solenoid under the intake and look at the screen on the solenoid. If there a bunch of metal on the screen you'll need to go through the whole engine, but if the screen is clear you can just do the cam/lifters and be fine. 👍
@@ReignitedAuto You can also install a Mildon high flow oil pump at idle my 5.7 sits at about 45 PSI of oil pressure on the highway I run approx 80 PSI of oil pressure. But from the few hemi cams I have looked at on number 5 we have noticed skip marks in the cam lobe which looks like to low of spring pressure on the valvetrain.
@@weaselsmopar6843 My stock oil pump with 128k miles on it, produces 48 PSI off idle and 56 PSI on the highway. I don't need 80 PSI on the highway, I need more oil pressure at idle. I get 34 PSI at idle, in higher temperatures I have seen drop as low as 27 PSI at idle. Swapping out the pressure relief spring on basically the same pump, will give you higher pressure at higher rpm, but won't do anything at idle. The whole point of the video was higher oil pressure at idle, no one has identified a problem with the stock 55-60 PSI at higher rpm causing any problems.
@@rickanderson8088 You can use a higher volume pump to increase pressure at idle, then if you don't want it on kill, you can put a lower pressure relief spring in it to lower the high side pressure.
@@jakesampson9106 And that is exactly what I'm doing. Just got a Hellcat pump and swapped the pressure relief spring with the OEM spring for the 5.7L. The pressure relief mechanism is identical, the outside of the pump is identical, the hellcat pump has an 1/8" thicker rotor and more vanes in the rotor, the case is a little thinner to fit the bigger rotor in the same case.
Absolute Gospel Advice. 10/10. I drive a Jeep Commander 06 Hemi in the UK on LPG. Not a sports car, and not young but a beautiful beast. I love the engine and look after it. I advise ALL viewers to watch this chaps videos, as it’s all done to earth, straight forward and entertaining. Well done! Don’t be put off with teething problems with a Hemi, and try to watch all these Hemi videos before a future purchase too. It’s a stunning engine and a engineering classic - lets keep Hemi’s alive no matter where you are in the world! “…And yes, this Baby’s got a Hemi!”
8 less spark plugs would be the best modification ever... My 3rd gen, Non MDS in a 2500 with a 6sp manual still makes the old dodge worth hanging on to....bought new in 06..
Finally, someone on the same page as myself. I have been saying it's an oil supply issue forever. These lifters being oiled backwards is not widely known. The oil supply is extremely limited after it travels all the way through the block, up through the heads, through the rocker assemblys, and down the pushrods. Hot idle time is a big killer.
It would be awesome if you could try this on video. Like get your hands on both pumps, give us an overview of the differences and try it on a 5.7 to see if this works. It could be huge!
I'm seeing posts on the internet contradicting each other, "I tried the Hellcat Pump, it won't fit" and "I have a Hellcat Pump in 5.7L Hemi right now". There are many changes to the Hemi over the years, especially with the VVT, and they are different among the trucks, the cars and the Jeeps. So it may be a case it works for some years of Hemi's in some applications and won't work for other years or applications. i.e. works for a 2011 Truck but won't work in a 2011 Jeep.
@@rickanderson8088 VVT is used for idle controls i think 🤔on dodge's V8's so its a useful thief, making sense FCA was cheap and didn't upgrade to a larger oil engine pump at the time of the VVT change
@@richardprice5978 they did upgrade the oil pump to 25% higher volume when they went to VVT, the question is, was it enough? AFA as it being idle control? Well, that is one way to look at it. It's really a schema to improve engine performance and economy without suffering the drawback of a really rough idle or high idle speed.
@@rickanderson8088 running 4 or 1 cylinder vs all V8 raises the cylinder pressures and stabilise the lower RPM's aka idling and changing valve timing does as well so it doesn't stall or hunt ect. and yes it can lead to more power but on average the max-pump of 60~ ( needed for LSX phaser's is 200-1500 as my educated guess ) PSI isn't enough for 5K-rpm's so up top phaser engine's lose power
Ive always wondered if the higher pressures work to fix the issue because there are squirters involved. Like putting your thumb over a running water hose....less flow, more pressure, but note how far the water "squirts" compared to just running out at full flow. FWIW thicker oil will show higher idle pressures, whether its actually getting to more places because of it I dont know. And as mentioned above literally 50-100RPM change in idle speed brings the pressure up to something really good. I found evidence a long time ago that Chrysler had different PCM flashes with different idle RPM values. 580, 600, 750, etc. I feel like even just 750 would be good, my truck idles at about 600 right now.
@@pantygnome Thicker Oil (i.e. greater viscosity and viscosity is the measure of its resistance to flow) will increase pressure in the same conditions. So you get greater pressure, at the cost of less flow, and that less flow might be impacting parts of the engine negatively. Very worn engines, that have opened up space in their bearings will have less resistance to flow, that is why their oil pressure drops, switching to higher viscosity oil to get oil pressure back in the specs should result in close to the spec flow, so in that case win, win. But in the case of I just want higher oil pressure in an engine that is not worn enough to need it, you're playing a guessing game of if the oil pressure at the expense of less flow is helping more than it is hurting. I think you are saying that as well, just trying to explain it better.
Yep, but I don't blame him for explaining it the way he does, for most people to understand. I am very frustrated by the people that buy off on the marketing propaganda about the "Hi Performance Hi-Pressure Oil pump" out there for the Hemi they saying a higher volume oil pump is not what you need, you need more pressure. ugg. You want more oil pressure at idle, putting a higher pressure relief spring in basically the same pump, won't do that, idle oil pressure will be the same, it will just give you more oil pressure at high rpm when you don't need that at all.
Great video. If you go to Rockauto, I chose a 2017 Challenger with a 5.7 at random, go to "engine" and "oil pump", it has a Melling high performance oil pump, #10452, it comes with an optional higher pressure spring. The Mopar pump #'s are indeed different for the 5.7 and 6.2's.
Volume and pressure are directly related. More volume with the same resistance will raise pressure, you can't produce more pressure with the same resistance without more Volume. Notice how he showed you the Hi-Pressure Pumps on the market are just the same volume with a stronger pressure relief valve. That just means the pressure relief opens later so at high rpm you get more pressure, simply because the pressure relief opens later. You want more pressure at idle and low rpm, the hi-pressure pump does nothing, pressure is exactly the same as the standard pump at idle and low rpm.
Why not take a couple of old cams to a machine shop and have them dimple hardness tested. One from a 2009+ with lifter failure and one from 2008- that doesn't. It leaves a small impression on the spot where your testing but if they are old and being used anymore who cares. They are not the most accurate hardness test but it should give you a good idea if the cam hardness is poorly done.
@@thefinalroman that style of hardness tester only gives reliable results on a flat surface, testing cam lobes with it is pissing in the wind, I have 15 years experience in metrology to know these things... all portable testers will give sketchy results without a flat surface, Jeremie has a better idea getting a proper test done
rebound hardness testers are basically bullshit a half ass shop might have to document a result for someone who wants it to meet a formality or impress people who know nothing about hardess or testing it. Not 1 person I asked ever told me the proper definition of hardness, simply a materials resistance to indentation, scratching is simply not the same thing and mohs pens fall into that best guess territory as well with much fancier portable rebound gear
if anything the scratch pens cannot even be claimed to check hardness at all, only what is referred to as 'superficial hardness' which is not really indicative of the quality of heat treat at all
To me, this makes more sense than anything else. I believe you nailed it. In addition, FWIW, valve springs need oil for proper cooling, there's a lot of heat generated in the valve springs.
So, my 2003 has 80,000 miles, and has this tick. And now, my engine has begun to misfire on start. Pretty soon here, I'm going to rebuild the whole engine, and I'm trying to find the best of everything I can get, so your videos have been very informative and helpful to me, personally. Thank you for all the knowledge, and for the content. I've really enjoyed your channel so far.
80k miles? A complete rebuild? I would confirm the cause of your problem first and make sure it is not a simple fix. You realize you could rebuild the valvetrain without removing the engine from the vehicle, and solve all our problems and rest of the engine not rebuilt would easily last another 220k miles if properly maintained. The cost and effort be 1/2 if not 1/3 of a complete rebuild that likely is totally unnecessary.
@@rickanderson8088 well, originally that was my plan. But one day I popped off the oil pan to replace the oil pan and the two stage gasket, and I saw all the oil, black, sludgy oil cooked to the crankshaft and rods. So, I'm pretty sure the original owner of that engine just didnt change the oil, and I think it the cause of so many issues. Improper maintenance can result in premature wear and tear, so I just chalked it up to that. If you think I can get away with just changing the cam, lifters, pushrods, valves and springs, I'd be happy lol. However I am going to change out for the high volume oil pump off the 6.2L
My '12 Challenger R/T w/manual 6 speed trans now has over 125,000 miles on it after the last road trip. It shows no signs of letting up, and has always had a very mild "ticking" noise(very similar to a set of quiet solid lifters)in the engine. Not too many other people would even notice it, but, having been a professional mechanic myself for 35+ years, it's just my 2nd nature to hear noises like that. Our '14 Chrysler 300C w/5.7 hemi, same deal, 67K on this car and no ticking other than hearing injectors firing when running. It has served us well since we bought it in early 2019 used from a dealer in CA(original owner kept oil/filter changed every 5K miles from new according to carfax report). Great video, thanks for sharing your knowledge with all of us!
I know many of you will disagree with my assessment. I've heard every possible theory from others as to why this is happening, and I'm open to other ideas, however you have to back up your theory with facts, not conjecture. If I hear one more person say, "it's a design flaw and Chrysler should recall it" I'm going to scream 😄
Great video I’m learning more and more as I prepare to rebuild my hemi engine in my 06 300. Thanks any advice on where to buy rebuild kit would be great.
@@jackangel9465 I did my 2013 cam and lifters, I'm a old mechanic. I hada missfire code. The cyld indicated had a bad lifter and a round cam lobe. 3 other cam lobes were in very bad shape, but the lifters on them were like new. It's the cam. I replaced with aftermarket 5000kms ago.
Great video!! Thanks. I have an 09’ Ram 1500 Crew with 132,000 miles in it and it still purrs. I have done the exhaust manifold bolts 2 times and now I just change them out after about 30k miles before they break. It’s a great motor and anything I ever want to know about the Hemi your channel is the first place I go. Thanks you are a great source of information and working knowledge. I also use my truck like a truck and tow a travel trailer about 8k miles a year so it’s worked hard. I do use Amsoil oil and Mobile 1 full synthetic filter and send samples to Blackstone labs every oil change and they give me great reports on oil and filter. I will just keep doing what I’m doing.
@@brentfellers9632 I appreciate the insight. I'm considering replacing the cam in my 2014 challenger. The car only has 12K on it, so no issues so far. I was told the issues weren't with the 5.7 with manual transmissions, but a cam swap will address any scenario.
I totally agree with you!... The condition can be solved a lot easier with a high volume oil pump and have always believed this was the original issue!... Another big problem is that the heads are aluminum and the block is steel, so they heat/thaw differently causing the cast iron exhaust manifold to also heat/thaw differently, which leads to snapping the exhaust manifold bolts. One way to remedy this is to buy stainless steel headers that are to factory specifications (quality shorties) that are direct bolt up! You will not only get better gas mileage, but also reduce significant weight. It will cost you about 4 or 5 hundred for the parts, but it's well worth doing to reduce future havoc of bolts snapping inside the heads! I use a good quality tonneau cover on my truck to increase gas mileage on my truck (RAM 4x4 5.7L). Thank you so much for addressing these problems! I will definitely look into a higher volume oil pump!
Thanks for posting this, I am in the process of my 6.4L upgrade and just ordered a hellcat oil pump, I'll post how the fit looks when I receive it. I am eager to try this.
The hellcat pump has arrived and from an external physical comparison to the old 6.4L pump, it looks exactly the same. Seems it will bolt on just fine. I'm going to post a video about this in a bit. I am eager to get the build finished and try it out.
@@solargarage The photos side by side look identical, which puzzles me, how does a pump the exact same size make more volume? Usually higher volume oil pumps are larger, simply because you need more volume inside the pump to pump more volume. Is it thicker in some way for a thicker gerotor (ring) inside, or perhaps the ring inside it a larger diameter?
@@solargarage If the rotors were thicker, than the pump would have to be thicker. I found a video of opening up the hellcat oil pump and posted it in another part of the thread. The gearotor has more teeth than stock, changing the ratios of volume. i.e. more volume in the same size package.
What I saw from the short clip of the cam and lifter from the 2010 Chally in the early stages of failure show me 100% the roller in the lifter failed first. Don't blame that one on lobe hardening issues.
Totally agree.. and love the Hellcat pump upgrade idea.. but I think one fact missing for some of these failures is the choice of oil used in these Hemi's .. they need specific standards and unfortunately folks think the grade is all it takes.. my 6.4 HD called for a specific synthetic oil in a specific grade. What are your thoughts 🤔
Melling has both a high volume and high pressure pumps for the 5.7 and 6.4. I can agree with the higher vol at idle would be a benefit but it also adds other issues, aside from having to use the matching pickup tube. The one issue would be any type of high rpm usage with a stock oil pan has a good potential of sucking the pan dry causing oil aeration, pumping the valve covers full of oil etc. Another one I need to point out is the MDS system, it has issues with higher oil pressure and volume then stock if you do not turn it off. The hellcat oil pump is the in between pump. Thicker pump rotor then a stock replacement pump but they are not as thick as an aftermarket high vol pump and keeps the stock approx 65psi rating.
03-08 Hemi rollers are affected just as much as later engines are, don't know where you get that idea from. Many 3rd Gen Hemi engines mushroom out the pushrod tips and have lazy lifter noise every now and then. Me personally I have gone through 3 sets of non mds lifters on my 04 Ram.
Another great video! My daughter has a 2020 1500 Warlock Hemi and I told to avoid long idling periods because of the “potential” issues down the road. I wish you would dive into the Ecodiesel engine a bit. I know you don’t like it but it would be very informative for us owners. I just hit 60K and I am worried. Everyone say “delete it” Not sure I want the EPA knocking on my door 🤷🏻♂️ I’m seriously considering a 2022 2500 reg cab 4X4 Hemi. Waiting for the market to correct itself. Not pay 3K plus over window on a new truck.
Ive been in fleet for 30 plus years and have had worked with emission style diesels in big rigs and medium duty trucks. Try this product in your fuel.....DPF Remedy. It will cut the soot by 80+% and reduce the soot loading inside engine and through the emission system. Reduce the soot, reduce the regen cycles, reduce the breakage and heat. Then run Schaeffers Supreme 9000 full synthetic....itll keep everything nice and clean
After thinking about this some more, since we have seen many instances where the cam was fine but the lifter bearings were bad, I'm still leaning toward lifters as the cause. Maybe the lifter bearings were improperly hardened or the clearances were incorrect and the bearings seized inside the rollers or the pin holding the roller was bad somehow.
Excellent, definitely can understand the information. I bought a retired 2014 Charger Police issue with 5.7 with 120k prior to knowing about the issue. I bought it to use for side jobs requiring emergency lights. I had it for almost a year and was on vacation when the had to floor it to o move from being hit. I heard what sounded like a small explosion and heard the dreadful ticking sound. Although faint it did not seem to affect the overall performance till later on. The tick turned into a knocking sound and much more pronounced. Eventually pressure started to decrease. It has been parked since because everyone (Mechanic) I have talked to said that I should not worry about having it repaired and that I should just buy another motor. Sure…on a Police Officers salary…heck throw in a Hellcat motor! Lol. But I would like some solid advise. Thanks for the video!
The answer for me was to install Comp Cam stage 2 and Hellcat lifrers. No mor MDS. The cam of course is billet as the old cam was ductile. 3 years , no peoblems idling as much as i want. But , with gas prices now , idling is bad for your $$$. Nice horspower gain and tuner changed the shifts to badass new heights. Fun to drive.
Great advice I have a 2013 ram 5.7 I did Change out the oil pump for the Hellcat oil pump, it took my rear seal. I think the reason it had 216k miles on it. I believe the seal was old couldn't handle the higher pressure.
Came across this video and agreed with everything you said. But I happen to prevent the hemi tick on my 2012 ram 5.7 by simply changing the oil weight. I have been using 10w-40 for years now and truck is at 221,000 miles. No issues no problems what so ever. My oil pressure never have I seen drop below 48psi hot idle and drives around 54psi. Better psi than most people post on Facebook. Like I said truck is bone stock no tunes no nothing internal done. MDS is disabled and 10w-40 oil is what I use. Also got a 180tstat.
10/11/2021 Good Info. My brother has a hemi in his 1 ton. No issues yet but now we will know what is what to stop the shade tree guys from a lot of unnecessary upgrades and milling. Some shops can screw up a one car funeral with add ons. Good one Don
Back in the 80s GM had a problem with Chev V8 flat cams. They had changed the way the cams were hardened (I believe from flame to induction hardening). Their cams were going flat everywhere.
Nice video very good quality but I disagree having worked on dodges at the dealership for over 10 years now many of the issues regarding Cam and lifters shows no damage to the cam
I think melling makes a high volume oil pump for the hemi engines. I also agree that a HV oil pump is a better solution then writing a high idle tune. Enjoying all these hemi videos. Keep up the good work.
On my second cam lifter replacement on a 2011 5.7. This makes perfect sense and yes mine is a high idle time truck. First one at 168000 this one 70,000 or so later. Great video, thanks…
Owner of a '13 Hemi Ram. So would a cam/lifter upgrade be a good work around? (I am not experiencing any tick yet with 150k miles) and if so, what's a good mild performance setup? What cost estimate would I be looking at for parts and labor?
Thank you for this Video. I just bought a 2016 1500 ram with 92xxx and it's running great now and all this talk about issues has me a bit worried I might be experiencing this in the next 20xxx miles.
12’ 5.7 grand Cherokee and it definitely has this tic, and it definitely it the psi at idle, I’ve literally been concerned when looking at my oil psi while sitting idle. And when ever I’m idle at a light that’s when the tic occurs most frequently. Once I get up to 2000 rpm it stops.
The over looked issue with the oil pump( same pump on the 4.7) is they are are a steel rotor inside and aluminum housing, they have different rates of expansion and both are soft and very intolerant to foreign matter in the oil. The inside of the casting and the rotor get scored and loose suction. Ever notice cast iron oil pumps in big block mopars, small block anythings dont have these issues, yet Buicks and AMC, this hemi and the POS 4.7 do, all front mounted aluminum case pumps.
I'm old-school an I am very picky about the sevice on my engines an I was taught by a old time mechanic how to build an turn wrenches on motors an have found that good clean oil an oil viscosity Matters an in my opinion the thin oil they say they require now days is not enough. I have a 5.4 triton Ford with 300'000 on it an it's all original. I use a oil additive like stp or Lucas for extra zinc even in roller motors that seems to help a lot.
I'm an old Chevy guy myself but I've had an eye on the newer Hemis ever since they came out. I got kind of turned off when I learned the heads had to be pulled to change the lifters; but the problems with them peaked my interest again because I'm running a billet solid roller retro in a 1st gen smblk I modified for wrist-pin oilers because I'm using a few pounds of forced induction. Well, you all know how it is: whenever you F with one thing it Fs with another. In my case ideal oil pressure is as low as one can get away since the pump is driven off the distributor and its drive gear is the sacrificial lamb for the billet cam; but then how low is too low? I have a HV Melling shark-tooth with a washer in it yet on hot days I'm under 20psi @ idle because of the wrist pin oilers. There's actually nine of them too because one's up front on the chain. I went with bushing instead of needle bearing roller lifters (cause of broken needle paranoia); and rev kit springs were recommended so I added those too. I didn't like the extra 20 degrees of heat they added; but opening up through the bumper behind where a front tag could go for the oil-cooler took care of that; and they they take rotational strain off the link-bars, and any slack out that can aid in pounding out of the rollers. It's been three years now and I've only readjusted once; but I don't know if there's such a thing as rev kits for new Hemis or not. They also keep the lifters in place if any of the push-rods go South so it might be worth looking into. The main thing I notice about the Hemi (and even the LS) pumps is that increasing the gear depth for a higher volume plays hell with the harmonic balance position on the crank which really sucks. I'm heavy into DC motor drives so I've looked into all kinds of electrically driven automotive accessory options; and one of them I've been considering for a long time is an electric oil pump. Since they can always be interlocked with the ignition through a pressure switch to prevent damage, the only real concern with them is current draw. However, I don't really think it would be anything near that of an electric power-steering pump which can draw as much as 60 to 70 amps @ 12vdc. Considering my Stewart EMP brushless WP is only about 15A, my guess for an electric oil pump would be somewhere around 30A, may be 40A which is fairly reasonable. The thing is, an electric pump won't vary in speed without a drive and a change of speed reference; but then is increasing oil-pressure with engine speed something that is even necessary or desirable? What would be the best pressure to run as a constant throughout the entire RPM range then? I still have more questions than answers; but I realize I'm not near as likely to get any if I just keep all my questions to myself.
Definitely like your thoughts here, and I agree the idea of an electric oil pump is intriguing, I think it could very easily be integrated into the existing platform and I agree the amperage draw wouldn't be prohibitive. Hmm, ideas....
My father had an 05 Hemi Jeep (we now own it) that had a failed lifter that ate the cam. It was rebuilt under warranty then had to be rebuilt a second time because they didn't get all the metal shavings out of the engine, they ended up replacing the block the second time. Oil was always changed at 3k miles using Mobil 1 5w20, he's an older guy so he never beat on it and he never towed anything with it either. It does happen to the 03-08 models but it might not be as 'common' as the 09+ though.
After reading on these issues sounds like a better oil spec is in order I've been using bio lube and Schaffers MP at oil half life and never exceed 6k on changes on 18 6.4
The "Hemi tick" is way older than 2009. I have a 2005 and have been researching it since then. The only oil that lessens the tick is Royal Purple motor oil
Just did jay green cam swap on a customers 2010 300 5.7 due to lifter failure, cam was worn also but the lifter was cashed mopar is not the only ones having the issue gm has it too
Because they also run the crap 5w20 oil. Running heavier oil like 5w30 10w30 5w40 IS THE ANSWER. The 5w20 oil is the common denominator to all these cam and lifter failures. Also add Zinc to your oil as it has been reduced in late oil which is also a big part of the problem.
I still feel the Cam is not the Focus of the failure, but the Lifter Pin wearing out allowing the roller to come up and jam then eat heavily away at the cam. However the Cams do show some damage in a chattering style pattern which also gives me idea there is some lifter lift and rapping on the lobes. Almost like a valve spring issue not controlling the lifter at higher rpms. I found this damage on three separate cams on different lobes, 2011, 2012, and a 2013. The 12/13 had no cam failures either. Also, when it comes to oil pressure, need both volume and pressure. But pressure is based on resistance to flow, and therefore volume. So you can have one high and other low vica versa. You can have plenty of volume and low pressure. High pressure and no volume. REGARDLESS, THANK YOU, thank you, thank you, but putting out there that 1920s-1950s oiling systems are not a good base to judge new tech, and dribbling oil over a lifter simulating angles and oiling out in the open is an idiotic way to prove a point. To date the best hemi lifter failure video I have seen.
Good point. With the pursuit for better mpgs, the spring could be as light as they can get it, and some were not within spec. Someone could do a spring rate test on the springs for cams that failed and ones that are still good.
The past 3 13 and up cam/lifter jobs I e done all was bad on cylinder 5. No other cylinder on all 3. One was a ram 2nd a jeep and 3rd was a charger. Cyl 5 on all 3 is a little weird. Great vid. Ty for the info
This isn't quite what's going on. Reignited, have you Rockwell tested the later VVT camshafts? If you have you would see that the hardness has not changed. There's several things that did change in the 09-up engines, mainly the VVT and MDS solenoids which take additional oil volume to operate, as well as the piston oil squirters. The cam and the roller on the lifter is the effect of the issue, not the cause. The cause actually starts at the other end of the lifter. As you mentioned, the oil galley feeds the lifter body in the lifter bore, and this oil drains over the roller. This part actually works fine for a stock engine and normal street driving. Also as you mentioned the hydraulic tensioner/valving is fed from the pushrod. Here's where the problem starts. The oil comes from a galley in the block, goes up through the heads, fills the rocker shafts, oils the rocker body bore and tip, the pushrod tip, THEN it gets fed down the pushrod to the last thing in the engine which is the hydraulic part of the lifter. After time each of those points along the way get slightly warn, and bleed off a bit of pressure. The oil feed to the hydraulic part of the lifter is marginal at best with no wear on the crankshaft bearings, cam bearings, lifter bores, pushrod tips, rocker shafts, etc. What happens is eventually there is not enough oil pressure at the pushrod to keep the hydraulic cylinder pumped up in the lifter. The plunger inside gets stuck down, then there is excessive slop in the valvetrain. Every time the lifter moves up and down with excessive slop, the roller wheel hammers the cam lobe surface. This quickly takes out the needle bearings inside the roller wheel, then the wheel drags across the lobe surface. The only real fix for this is a direct fed hydraulic lifter that oils the hydraulic part of the lifter straight from the lifter galley in the block, like pretty much all other V8 pushrod engines. The only lifter made to do that currently is the Johnson race lifters. They do not rely on the poor oil feed that comes down the pushrod. They also have a pressure fed axle version for engines that need it due to aggressive valvetrains, and a direct fed, axle fed, limited travel hyd version that can be used almost as effectively as a solid roller. Because these aftermarket lifters feed direct from the lifter bore galley they can not be used for or with MDS. When the MDS solenoid closes the oil galley to the lifter bores it does so completely. No oil pressure there. That's why Chrysler had to rely on oiling the hydraulic valving backwards from down the pushrod, in order to keep it pumped up.
@@ReignitedAuto the Johnsons also pick up a LOT of power due to the consistent oil supply and tight valving in the lifter. I know a guy that did a lot of testing for Johnson. On a 4" stroke 6.1L they did an A/B test on the non MDS "Hellcat" lifter vs the Johnson. It picked up almost 40 HP! Granted this was a high RPM street/strip engine, and the spongy lifter issues make them perform worse the higher you rev it. BUT they're definately worth power, and with the added reliability, the power is a bonus.
@@ReignitedAuto the Hellcat pump is not a bad idea. Especially on a higher mileage, warn engine. It can keep up with internal leakage from slightly warn parts better than the OE 5.7 pumps. It just doesn't totally cure the initial problem of a weak supply to the hydraulic valving side of the OE lifters. Be sure to centralize the center ring gear to the housing before torquing it in place.
the hardness. minimum oil pressure equates to bearing clearance. increase each bearing clearance .0002" and you'll have a psi drop. I put the bigger pump in most gen III and gm LS stuff with the mds/dod system but the big issue with the gen III is the cam hardness. I feel at the time the contractor ran the cores to fast to meat demand.
Awesome, I love the outside venue. I actually have a serious request, I can’t find any information on it on the Internet and it’s actually a very interesting topic. Experimental/homemade aircraft use a few particular V-8 car engines. The Aftermarket V8 selection is always the LS/LT Chevy engine. It has been very successful and is dialed in well for aircraft use. Because the Chevy engine has been used often, aftermarket programming and other aftermarket devices have been created for aircraft needs using the LS. So, I understand once there is a niche created by a manufacturer it can, by ease of use, create a monopoly. I have studied dodge V-8 truck engines, their V-8 Performance engines and their V 10. They appear to meet all of the standards and quirks for the aircraft application. There is a rumor that the Dodge engines do not turbo charge very well, meaning turbo charging causes some specific damage to the Dodge lineup. I don’t necessarily believe that, because I have not been showen any evidence or statements from a professional that is an issue. Being a fan of Dodge, I have looked far and wide and find no information about why dodge engines are not pursued for kit planes. There is one exception, legend kit planes offers a V-10 dodge as an option for their P 51 Mustang. There are no TH-cam videos about why hemi engines are not used and there’s nothing on my Internet searches. I thought if you had any information on it or even speculation that it might make a fun short video for you. You would surely expand your audience into the fairly large experimental aircraft Community. Bonus‼️
In my opinion the Hemi engine is just as reliable as its LS counterpart. For me the issue is packaging, the LS is a very compact engine, able to be put in a variety of very tight places, while the Hemi engine is quite broad. If you put them side by side it's startling just how much bigger the Hemi engine is. But also availability, it's much more expensive to start with a Hemi engine, and the aftermarket support just isn't there like it is for the LS. Those are the two major limiting factors in my mind. Thanks for watching I appreciate it!
@@ReignitedAuto thanks for the information, that is very informative actually. If I ever put a hemi in a kit plan I will let you know. That is actually my goal Someday.
The hemi tick is like politics every one has a opinion I've heard everything from lack of oil to the upper end to they just got a bunch of bad lifter's to it had something to do with the displacement on demand its nice to see your no nonsense aproch the the problem LS engines have had similar issues with the needle bearing in it's rocker shafts as well I think the hell cat pump is a great idea thanks for posting this
I noticed my 2020 ram actually idles at about 500rpm. Not sure why chrysler does this on some vehicles but this could be a reason. Most vehicles idle at 600+rpm. My old 2002 dakota 4.7 idled low like this too. Certainly a lower than average idle rpm is not going to help anything at all.
Hello, I watched this video hoping that one of the items of misinformation that you would correct is the common claim that oil pumps create pressure. Unfortunately that was not the case. I will attempt to clarify the function of a pump, any pump, any type of pump, anywhere on this earth. The purpose of a pump is to create FLOW! That is all. In hydraulic systems, PRESSURE is defined as " resistance to FLOW". Your explanation of the difference between a standard pump and a high pressure pump is correct. The relief valve and spring you spoke of is one of the devices that cause the resistance to flow. A stiffer spring requires more force to push the valve open. The moment the valve opens the resistance to flow is eliminated and fluid returns to the sump. This cycle repeats continuously provided all the oil clearances of bearings, orifices, galleries, etc. are within specifications. If these clearances are beyond the maximum spec, the pump may never reach the high pressure setting. Explaining the actual function of a pump is especially important when dealing with issues that may be due to a poorly functioning pump. The oil pressure gauge in the instrument panel is an excellent tool to assist with determining the condition of the engine bearings. within the manufacturers normal range, high oil pressure is a sign of a healthy engine and low oil pressure is a sign of an ailing engine. If the oil pressure gradually drops over the life of the vehicle, it is likely due to worn components and requires service. I do give you credit for recommending the high VOLUME pump near the end. As stated, the high volume pump flows more oil to the engine components at a lower rpm while maintaining a pressure that will not push oil past seals etc. Regarding the 2008 and earlier hemi's, I have had issues with lifters in 07 and 08 engines as well as piston skirt slap in an 07 ram 1500 with the hemi. The piston pins were seized and appeared to be from overheating. A high volume pump may have helped in that particular engine.
I have 2 vehicles that are the 2008-2009 (made after June of 2008) govt fleet vehicles one has the 4.7 hemi the other the 5.7 hemi both have the infamous hemi tick this was a very interesting video
Contact Melling if you want a high volume pump. In addition to supplying US cars with their original equipment oil pumps. they are considered to be the best at producing the best aftermarket oiling parts as well. If there is a Hellcat pump that works, you can get it from them. If you believe - and you convince their engineers - they are likely to produce an even higher volume/pressure pump if it would universally solve the problem with lifter tick.
I have an old 1969 Barracuda fastback have been think of putting a new Hemi and transmission in it for my last new car thank for the high volume oil pump solution.
hi from Germany I heard a faint ticking sound on my 2019 Challenger 392 at 10,000 miles.... I was really scared because there is no guarantee for Import Dodge. So I tried other oils. Don't use thin oil anymore. I'm now using 10w60 Castrol Edge and not Penzoil 0w40...that's way too thin. Since I've been using this I haven't heard a tick tick tick. Incidentally, I installed an HV pump in my 383 in the Iroc Camaro... that helped a bit.... this one also needs 10w60 Castrol and a bottle of Lucas Oilstbilisator. the Hemi needs the thick oil here .... sometimes I drive almost 180 mp/h ~~300 km/h fast and then the thin oil becomes as liquid as water. Greeting from Germany
Did the API standards that started lowering zinc and phosphorous additives correspond with VVT for the HEMI? I think it started with API SL? And has decreased with each new standard, we're on SN+ now? The zinc and phosphorous were high pressure additives specifically for the valvetrain, and the argument was that all engine now used roller lifters/followers and thus did not need these additives that will eat away at O2 sensors and catalytic converters. Could this be the case of underestimating how much roller valvetrains need the high pressure additives, especially with VVT?
Very informative. Please forward this video to Uncle Tony's Garage. He has many thousands of viewers, all Mopar heads, and he's the guy that says it's the raised cam causing the problem. I believed it until just now. Please set him straight so he can set his viewers straight. I can't, I dont know how.
Im in the hot climate of Texas. I do alot of idling with my work. I have a 17 ram hemi purchased 2 years ago I originally I used basic full synthetic oil like Walmart or Valvoline for my first few oil changes and then tried royal purple and could immediately hear and feel the difference on the first startup. Been using RP ever since. Never had the tick (on this Ram) but, it idled smoother and engine was quieter. And ran smooth. Last oil change i tried out that German Liquimoly, After reading all these good things about it i was convinced it's was superior oil. Yes I know amsoil and redline are better but they also cost $70-$140 for 7 quarts. A week after oil change with lquimoly I started to hear the tick. Imedeitly what came to my head was that the oil being made in Germany is probably a engineered & superior for cold as shit climates. cuz also noticed it the oil was very thin and watery, compared to what I was used to with RP. So after 2 weeks of the tick I'm gonna take the loss and drain it and put RP back in, as I write this. Any truth to my theory??
Great video with great info and analysis! I didn't have any wear on my cam when I swapped it out for a performance one but then again I don't idle a ton either. Interesting conclusion, I wonder if that Hellcat pump is a direct fit. 🤔
I have a 2012 Ram with the 5.7, it's had the same tick before and after replacing the entire top end including cam, lifters and valves. The tickets is identical before and after, $1500 wasted.
Had a brand new motor installed, sounds the same after 1000k miles. Now has 40,000 more miles and sound hasn’t gone away. Also hasn’t blown up. People go 300k with that noise and never have anything happen.not sure what to think really lol
Cam lobe hardening would make sense because hardened steel doesn't mushroom, it chips and shatters. However, on the hemi engines I've seen this issue on, the cam lobes were mushroomed on the outside edge where the lifter roller edges are.
@@DL101ca it's like a chicken and egg situation. Did improperly hardened needle bearings inside the roller cause the cam lobes to go bad or did improperly hardened cam lobes cause the needle bearings to go bad. Since I've seen many instances where the cam was fine but the lifter bearings were bad, I'm still leaning toward lifters as the cause.
The cam hardening isn't going to wipe out the bearing inside the lifter here's something to think about the variable valve timing setup that they did may require a little bit more oil it's clearly an oil issue if providing better oil flow and pressure solves the issue set an idle at low oil pressure and low oil volume that should tell you the new setup uses more oil there is no way that can be cam hardness
Well I’m taking mine to the shop on Monday, I’ll see about putting the Hellcat pump on and get back to you on fitment if I decide to go down that path. So far it looks the same (only mm differences in size)
My 5.7, #5 lifter was chewed and seized, hot tick, all other lifters good, but every lobe on cam the chrome was peeling off. 123k miles. 5000 mile oil changes. Are the lifters causing excessive wear on the camshaft or is the camshaft causing excessive friction on the rollers, therefore causing roller lifter failure? A mechanic at RAM told me yesterday he’s done 20 of these they all had a cylinder 5 lifter failure. This confuses the investigation even more because how could only one specific lobe be affected more than others? Lastly, cams are $300 and MDS lifters are $700. That’s also confusing.
I don't have a lot of answers for you, but I do have one. As far as the cost of parts goes, when Chrysler has to pay for parts through warranty they have to pay a mandatory mark up cost to the dealership of 40% or more. If they drop the initial cost of the part itself then they don't have to pay as much markup. So, on parts where they are replacing a lot of them, like camshafts, they drop the parts price significantly to save themselves money.
Would it be possible to show a video on how a DIY man can do this job please. I asked my dealer and the workshop supervisor (a female) said no we won’t do that - if it needed doing Chrysler would do it and it might void your warranty. I don’t think she believed that it would help or believed that there is even a problem - but in any case refused to fo the work. So I am going to have to do it myself engine in the RAM1500 and a video would be awesome! (Please)
You are in luck, in two weeks I'll be releasing a video showing the process on a dodge magnum, is a very similar process on the trucks though. The major difference is that you will have to remove your oil pan to access the nut holding the pickup tube in place.
@@ReignitedAuto That is fantastic I will look forward to that and want to thank you for a very informative channel. RAM1500 and Hemi are a relatively rare vehicle in Australia, and your channel is turning out to be such a useful and important resource for me as a new RAM / hemi owner. Thanks kindly for all the good work you are doing.
Yessir, now in the case of the 3.6 I blame that completely on the crappy quality of the stock rocker arms, they fall apart very easy, and they are so cheap to replace that it's no wonder they fail!
@@ReignitedAuto exactly what i thought, i was a ford tech for 9 years before that job. I was not familiar with the 3.6. After 2-3 failed we replaced the rocker arms on the ones with 100k. I just bought a 21 ram and was nervous when i heard about the tick problem, i feel better after watching your videos explaining the issue.
GM had the same issue in the late 80s/ early 90s in the 4.3l V6. They said that the cams were ( A little soft)! I changed to a GM off road cam, and no more problems. What do You think about using one step up in oil viscosity? I use Mobil one 20w-50w in air cooled vintage race bikes. Never had any crank, or cam issues. These bikes get Hot!!
Can better oil help too? When I bought my 2017 Ram 1500, used, 3 years ago, it came with cheap conventional in it, idled at 26 - 27 psi, then I heard about the cam issues and switched to Amsoil Signature, it idles at 38 psi now and no dry lifter tap for a few seconds when you first start it for the day.
Same here. I have samples independent Blackstone lab tested. I have experimented with up to 12,000 mi interval based on the opinion of the lab. I don’t idle and have at least 50% highway with rare towing. Basically personal business vehicle. The lab knew what I was wanting to look for and accomplish so they addressed back to me in detail. Bottom line comment was, “all signs of a health Hemi” I use Amsoil Signature 5-20. My choice. Your results may vary.
Same for ATF which I changed for first time at 111K. Yeah I know NOW but still nothing unusual from the lab. The break-in metals had collected on the magnet and the bottom of the pan. The fluid was not burned or overly degraded. Amsoil ATF went back in the tranny. I will change ATF at factory intervals going forward. Also, I never use additives except in the fuel for alcohol issues. Run 87
@@brhud3263 Yeah, those pesky exhaust manifold bolts, I've yet to own a Ram and haven't had to replace those, lol. I'm not buying in to that "lifetime" transmission, so therefore they omitted the tranny dipstick, just rolled 55k on my 17 Ram and getting the fluids changed in a couple days. Glad to see the good reports from Blackstone, I don't do any extensive idling either.
@@matthewwatson572 I will change ATF fluid ongoing at about 35K interval. It’s so easy when you just swap pans. Amsoil recommends 12K on motor oil intervals. I went ahead and did the distributor ship to get the rewards and discounts. I don’t sell commercially but run Amsoil in every vehicle and small engine driven device we own.
My 2004 Hemi Laramie has 300,000 miles on it. Pulls a trailer and been ticking for 100,000 miles. I paid 2000 dollars for it lol. I drive the shit out of it and even get compliments on it. Still a nice truck.
Is not the oil issue, is the material over cost and profit. Around 2010-2011 mopart went with a different supplier which is a lot cheaper then the previous one on roller and cams. Cheaper material equal cheaper cost and make more profit.
I just had a lifter changed at 14k miles they told me the cam was fine but said it would be fine even before they changed it. If it did get chewed up some would it cause another failure relativity quick?
I'm a first time Hemi engine owner. I have a 2022 Bighorn with the 5.7 liter non E-torque motor. I drive conservatively in town and run 70 to 80 mph highway. Most of my driving is highway miles. I do my own oil and filter changes and have never had a problem with my previous Ram 6 cylinder engines. I've been changing the oil at 6,000 miles using full synthetic proper weight oils. Would it be a good idea to change the oil at 5,000 miles or possibly sooner? I have considered getting a tuner kit to disable the "ECO" 4 cylinder shutdown system. I would prefer not to start changing parts on a less than 1,000 miles engine. What do you think would be my best options to make this engine last 200,000 miles. I drive 20,000 plus a year, again mostly highway.
I am a hemi fan , make no mistake , however this issue is a flaw design in the engine since most engines live a long happy life with 30-35 psi oil pressure, I don't know where these " theorist's " come up with average oil pressure is " x" but id more volume stops the problem than it probably is the way to go. reckon ill do cam lifter upgrade and pump when i get into the 90s
Almost true. In 2009 Daimler sold CJDR to Cerberis and then to Fiat. They changed the oil from Mobil 1 to Pennzoil. I think that made the difference. I think Mobil 1 was a better oil.
2013 ram with 95000 miles almost no tick but change oil every 3500 miles with almost 0 idle time... yep I am a retired mechanic... I have 35 idle and 55 hot psi
I just bought a "leftover" brand new 2022 Challenger R/T 5.7L, and I noticed two things: 1) The recommended oil is 0W-20 full synthetic (meeting standard MS-6395), and 2) The cold idle is set to ~1250 rpm. I know all vehicles start out with a higher cold idle, but 1250 seems higher than any of the other vehicles I've owned. Are those possibly to (at least partially) address the cam/lifter issue?
Please watch my NEWEST video to get the very latest info on this issue!
th-cam.com/video/1gpEwkTVCmE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Zh-s2MnZE5fdGmmM
Wondering about oil. Saw video on TH-cam about fixing tick. Person fixed the problem by going 5w30 weight engine oil from factory recommended 0w20. What do you think ? Thanks
@ReignitedAuto. What are your thoughts on the metal running through the oiling system. My sons 13 Ram is in this condition. My concern is with all the metal in the oil and it’s not much more to pull the motor and do a full rebuild. Cam, crank and rod bearing cleaning oil passages etc.
@MiguelSanchez-nd4bv Chrysler's official answer to this: pull the oil control valve solenoid under the intake and look at the screen on the solenoid. If there a bunch of metal on the screen you'll need to go through the whole engine, but if the screen is clear you can just do the cam/lifters and be fine. 👍
Nice! W
Happy your back on this topic. Next video: how to install a Hellcat large displacement oil pump on a 5.7 Hemi.
It's coming soon-ish 😄
@@ReignitedAuto You can also install a Mildon high flow oil pump at idle my 5.7 sits at about 45 PSI of oil pressure on the highway I run approx 80 PSI of oil pressure. But from the few hemi cams I have looked at on number 5 we have noticed skip marks in the cam lobe which looks like to low of spring pressure on the valvetrain.
@@weaselsmopar6843 My stock oil pump with 128k miles on it, produces 48 PSI off idle and 56 PSI on the highway. I don't need 80 PSI on the highway, I need more oil pressure at idle. I get 34 PSI at idle, in higher temperatures I have seen drop as low as 27 PSI at idle. Swapping out the pressure relief spring on basically the same pump, will give you higher pressure at higher rpm, but won't do anything at idle. The whole point of the video was higher oil pressure at idle, no one has identified a problem with the stock 55-60 PSI at higher rpm causing any problems.
@@rickanderson8088 You can use a higher volume pump to increase pressure at idle, then if you don't want it on kill, you can put a lower pressure relief spring in it to lower the high side pressure.
@@jakesampson9106 And that is exactly what I'm doing. Just got a Hellcat pump and swapped the pressure relief spring with the OEM spring for the 5.7L. The pressure relief mechanism is identical, the outside of the pump is identical, the hellcat pump has an 1/8" thicker rotor and more vanes in the rotor, the case is a little thinner to fit the bigger rotor in the same case.
Absolute Gospel Advice. 10/10. I drive a Jeep Commander 06 Hemi in the UK on LPG. Not a sports car, and not young but a beautiful beast. I love the engine and look after it. I advise ALL viewers to watch this chaps videos, as it’s all done to earth, straight forward and entertaining. Well done! Don’t be put off with teething problems with a Hemi, and try to watch all these Hemi videos before a future purchase too. It’s a stunning engine and a engineering classic - lets keep Hemi’s alive no matter where you are in the world! “…And yes, this Baby’s got a Hemi!”
Dan what LPG system are you running on your hemi?
8 less spark plugs would be the best modification ever...
My 3rd gen, Non MDS in a 2500 with a 6sp manual still makes the old dodge worth hanging on to....bought new in 06..
Finally, someone on the same page as myself. I have been saying it's an oil supply issue forever. These lifters being oiled backwards is not widely known. The oil supply is extremely limited after it travels all the way through the block, up through the heads, through the rocker assemblys, and down the pushrods. Hot idle time is a big killer.
It would be awesome if you could try this on video. Like get your hands on both pumps, give us an overview of the differences and try it on a 5.7 to see if this works. It could be huge!
I'm seeing posts on the internet contradicting each other, "I tried the Hellcat Pump, it won't fit" and "I have a Hellcat Pump in 5.7L Hemi right now". There are many changes to the Hemi over the years, especially with the VVT, and they are different among the trucks, the cars and the Jeeps. So it may be a case it works for some years of Hemi's in some applications and won't work for other years or applications. i.e. works for a 2011 Truck but won't work in a 2011 Jeep.
@@rickanderson8088 VVT is used for idle controls i think 🤔on dodge's V8's so its a useful thief, making sense FCA was cheap and didn't upgrade to a larger oil engine pump at the time of the VVT change
@@richardprice5978 they did upgrade the oil pump to 25% higher volume when they went to VVT, the question is, was it enough? AFA as it being idle control? Well, that is one way to look at it. It's really a schema to improve engine performance and economy without suffering the drawback of a really rough idle or high idle speed.
@@rickanderson8088 running 4 or 1 cylinder vs all V8 raises the cylinder pressures and stabilise the lower RPM's aka idling and changing valve timing does as well so it doesn't stall or hunt ect. and yes it can lead to more power but on average the max-pump of 60~ ( needed for LSX phaser's is 200-1500 as my educated guess ) PSI isn't enough for 5K-rpm's so up top phaser engine's lose power
Pumps don't make pressure, they create flow. Resistance to flow creates pressure.
But the end result is correct. Good job!
You are correct!
Ive always wondered if the higher pressures work to fix the issue because there are squirters involved. Like putting your thumb over a running water hose....less flow, more pressure, but note how far the water "squirts" compared to just running out at full flow. FWIW thicker oil will show higher idle pressures, whether its actually getting to more places because of it I dont know. And as mentioned above literally 50-100RPM change in idle speed brings the pressure up to something really good. I found evidence a long time ago that Chrysler had different PCM flashes with different idle RPM values. 580, 600, 750, etc. I feel like even just 750 would be good, my truck idles at about 600 right now.
@@pantygnome Thicker Oil (i.e. greater viscosity and viscosity is the measure of its resistance to flow) will increase pressure in the same conditions. So you get greater pressure, at the cost of less flow, and that less flow might be impacting parts of the engine negatively. Very worn engines, that have opened up space in their bearings will have less resistance to flow, that is why their oil pressure drops, switching to higher viscosity oil to get oil pressure back in the specs should result in close to the spec flow, so in that case win, win. But in the case of I just want higher oil pressure in an engine that is not worn enough to need it, you're playing a guessing game of if the oil pressure at the expense of less flow is helping more than it is hurting. I think you are saying that as well, just trying to explain it better.
Yep, but I don't blame him for explaining it the way he does, for most people to understand. I am very frustrated by the people that buy off on the marketing propaganda about the "Hi Performance Hi-Pressure Oil pump" out there for the Hemi they saying a higher volume oil pump is not what you need, you need more pressure. ugg. You want more oil pressure at idle, putting a higher pressure relief spring in basically the same pump, won't do that, idle oil pressure will be the same, it will just give you more oil pressure at high rpm when you don't need that at all.
Great video. If you go to Rockauto, I chose a 2017 Challenger with a 5.7 at random, go to "engine" and "oil pump", it has a Melling high performance oil pump, #10452, it comes with an optional higher pressure spring. The Mopar pump #'s are indeed different for the 5.7 and 6.2's.
Volume vs pressure... I always thought more pressure was the solution, it's not. Volume is the solution. Thank you for another very informative video
Volume and pressure are directly related. More volume with the same resistance will raise pressure, you can't produce more pressure with the same resistance without more Volume. Notice how he showed you the Hi-Pressure Pumps on the market are just the same volume with a stronger pressure relief valve. That just means the pressure relief opens later so at high rpm you get more pressure, simply because the pressure relief opens later. You want more pressure at idle and low rpm, the hi-pressure pump does nothing, pressure is exactly the same as the standard pump at idle and low rpm.
Why not take a couple of old cams to a machine shop and have them dimple hardness tested. One from a 2009+ with lifter failure and one from 2008- that doesn't. It leaves a small impression on the spot where your testing but if they are old and being used anymore who cares. They are not the most accurate hardness test but it should give you a good idea if the cam hardness is poorly done.
ProjectFarm uses Mohs hardness pens on his tests all the time. Maybe this guy should get some...
are not the cams and rollers meeting the rockwell hardness tests china made metal .
@@thefinalroman that style of hardness tester only gives reliable results on a flat surface, testing cam lobes with it is pissing in the wind, I have 15 years experience in metrology to know these things... all portable testers will give sketchy results without a flat surface, Jeremie has a better idea getting a proper test done
rebound hardness testers are basically bullshit a half ass shop might have to document a result for someone who wants it to meet a formality or impress people who know nothing about hardess or testing it. Not 1 person I asked ever told me the proper definition of hardness, simply a materials resistance to indentation, scratching is simply not the same thing and mohs pens fall into that best guess territory as well with much fancier portable rebound gear
if anything the scratch pens cannot even be claimed to check hardness at all, only what is referred to as 'superficial hardness' which is not really indicative of the quality of heat treat at all
To me, this makes more sense than anything else. I believe you nailed it.
In addition, FWIW, valve springs need oil for proper cooling, there's a lot of heat generated in the valve springs.
I sold my hemi, but I still come to watch your videos
So, my 2003 has 80,000 miles, and has this tick. And now, my engine has begun to misfire on start. Pretty soon here, I'm going to rebuild the whole engine, and I'm trying to find the best of everything I can get, so your videos have been very informative and helpful to me, personally. Thank you for all the knowledge, and for the content. I've really enjoyed your channel so far.
80k miles? A complete rebuild? I would confirm the cause of your problem first and make sure it is not a simple fix. You realize you could rebuild the valvetrain without removing the engine from the vehicle, and solve all our problems and rest of the engine not rebuilt would easily last another 220k miles if properly maintained. The cost and effort be 1/2 if not 1/3 of a complete rebuild that likely is totally unnecessary.
@@rickanderson8088 well, originally that was my plan. But one day I popped off the oil pan to replace the oil pan and the two stage gasket, and I saw all the oil, black, sludgy oil cooked to the crankshaft and rods. So, I'm pretty sure the original owner of that engine just didnt change the oil, and I think it the cause of so many issues. Improper maintenance can result in premature wear and tear, so I just chalked it up to that. If you think I can get away with just changing the cam, lifters, pushrods, valves and springs, I'd be happy lol. However I am going to change out for the high volume oil pump off the 6.2L
@@JT-cw8tk Is it a 345 ?
@@dimensionexo. yes
Kool*
My '12 Challenger R/T w/manual 6 speed trans now has over 125,000 miles on it after the last road trip. It shows no signs of letting up, and has always had a very mild "ticking" noise(very similar to a set of quiet solid lifters)in the engine. Not too many other people would even notice it, but, having been a professional mechanic myself for 35+ years, it's just my 2nd nature to hear noises like that.
Our '14 Chrysler 300C w/5.7 hemi, same deal, 67K on this car and no ticking other than hearing injectors firing when running. It has served us well since we bought it in early 2019 used from a dealer in CA(original owner kept oil/filter changed every 5K miles from new according to carfax report).
Great video, thanks for sharing your knowledge with all of us!
I know many of you will disagree with my assessment. I've heard every possible theory from others as to why this is happening, and I'm open to other ideas, however you have to back up your theory with facts, not conjecture. If I hear one more person say, "it's a design flaw and Chrysler should recall it" I'm going to scream 😄
Great video I’m learning more and more as I prepare to rebuild my hemi engine in my 06 300. Thanks any advice on where to buy rebuild kit would be great.
I can agree with the hardening process. I'm just wondering if that process also is applied to the roller and is a contributing factor.
@@jackangel9465 I did my 2013 cam and lifters, I'm a old mechanic. I hada missfire code. The cyld indicated had a bad lifter and a round cam lobe. 3 other cam lobes were in very bad shape, but the lifters on them were like new. It's the cam. I replaced with aftermarket 5000kms ago.
Great video!! Thanks. I have an 09’ Ram 1500 Crew with 132,000 miles in it and it still purrs. I have done the exhaust manifold bolts 2 times and now I just change them out after about 30k miles before they break. It’s a great motor and anything I ever want to know about the Hemi your channel is the first place I go. Thanks you are a great source of information and working knowledge. I also use my truck like a truck and tow a travel trailer about 8k miles a year so it’s worked hard. I do use Amsoil oil and Mobile 1 full synthetic filter and send samples to Blackstone labs every oil change and they give me great reports on oil and filter. I will just keep doing what I’m doing.
@@brentfellers9632 I appreciate the insight. I'm considering replacing the cam in my 2014 challenger. The car only has 12K on it, so no issues so far. I was told the issues weren't with the 5.7 with manual transmissions, but a cam swap will address any scenario.
I totally agree with you!... The condition can be solved a lot easier with a high volume oil pump and have always believed this was the original issue!... Another big problem is that the heads are aluminum and the block is steel, so they heat/thaw differently causing the cast iron exhaust manifold to also heat/thaw differently, which leads to snapping the exhaust manifold bolts. One way to remedy this is to buy stainless steel headers that are to factory specifications (quality shorties) that are direct bolt up! You will not only get better gas mileage, but also reduce significant weight. It will cost you about 4 or 5 hundred for the parts, but it's well worth doing to reduce future havoc of bolts snapping inside the heads! I use a good quality tonneau cover on my truck to increase gas mileage on my truck (RAM 4x4 5.7L).
Thank you so much for addressing these problems! I will definitely look into a higher volume oil pump!
Thanks for posting this, I am in the process of my 6.4L upgrade and just ordered a hellcat oil pump, I'll post how the fit looks when I receive it. I am eager to try this.
The hellcat pump has arrived and from an external physical comparison to the old 6.4L pump, it looks exactly the same. Seems it will bolt on just fine. I'm going to post a video about this in a bit. I am eager to get the build finished and try it out.
Part number?
@@solargarage The photos side by side look identical, which puzzles me, how does a pump the exact same size make more volume? Usually higher volume oil pumps are larger, simply because you need more volume inside the pump to pump more volume. Is it thicker in some way for a thicker gerotor (ring) inside, or perhaps the ring inside it a larger diameter?
@@rickanderson8088 My understanding is that the the veins in the rotor are thicker, resulting in more volume.
@@solargarage If the rotors were thicker, than the pump would have to be thicker. I found a video of opening up the hellcat oil pump and posted it in another part of the thread. The gearotor has more teeth than stock, changing the ratios of volume. i.e. more volume in the same size package.
What I saw from the short clip of the cam and lifter from the 2010 Chally in the early stages of failure show me 100% the roller in the lifter failed first. Don't blame that one on lobe hardening issues.
Yes, the Hellcat oil pump bolts up to engine perfectly and so does the oil pick up tube. I just did this last month.
Does said oil pump bolt up to the 6.1 block and will it work with that timing/crank setup?
@@03mm24 I'm not sure about the 6.1. I have a 5.7 in a 2014 charger pursuit. I know it is supposed to work with the newer 5.7s and 6.4s.
@@CyberDragonAGD ok...another question, does your 5.7 have the cam phaser built in the cam gear?
@@03mm24 Yes
@@CyberDragonAGD ok the 6.1s don't so I'm seeing some differences
I very seldom look at a video without scrolling thru them. The knowledge you bring is just amazing. Sometimes I look at your video more than once.
Totally agree.. and love the Hellcat pump upgrade idea.. but I think one fact missing for some of these failures is the choice of oil used in these Hemi's .. they need specific standards and unfortunately folks think the grade is all it takes.. my 6.4 HD called for a specific synthetic oil in a specific grade. What are your thoughts 🤔
My 6.4 hd loves mobile 1 0w50 90k miles
Melling has both a high volume and high pressure pumps for the 5.7 and 6.4. I can agree with the higher vol at idle would be a benefit but it also adds other issues, aside from having to use the matching pickup tube. The one issue would be any type of high rpm usage with a stock oil pan has a good potential of sucking the pan dry causing oil aeration, pumping the valve covers full of oil etc. Another one I need to point out is the MDS system, it has issues with higher oil pressure and volume then stock if you do not turn it off. The hellcat oil pump is the in between pump. Thicker pump rotor then a stock replacement pump but they are not as thick as an aftermarket high vol pump and keeps the stock approx 65psi rating.
Hmmm......
03-08 Hemi rollers are affected just as much as later engines are, don't know where you get that idea from. Many 3rd Gen Hemi engines mushroom out the pushrod tips and have lazy lifter noise every now and then. Me personally I have gone through 3 sets of non mds lifters on my 04 Ram.
Another great video! My daughter has a 2020 1500 Warlock Hemi and I told to avoid long idling periods because of the “potential” issues down the road.
I wish you would dive into the Ecodiesel engine a bit. I know you don’t like it but it would be very informative for us owners.
I just hit 60K and I am worried. Everyone say “delete it” Not sure I want the EPA knocking on my door 🤷🏻♂️
I’m seriously considering a 2022 2500 reg cab 4X4 Hemi. Waiting for the market to correct itself. Not pay 3K plus over window on a new truck.
Ive been in fleet for 30 plus years and have had worked with emission style diesels in big rigs and medium duty trucks. Try this product in your fuel.....DPF Remedy. It will cut the soot by 80+% and reduce the soot loading inside engine and through the emission system. Reduce the soot, reduce the regen cycles, reduce the breakage and heat. Then run Schaeffers Supreme 9000 full synthetic....itll keep everything nice and clean
After thinking about this some more, since we have seen many instances where the cam was fine but the lifter bearings were bad, I'm still leaning toward lifters as the cause. Maybe the lifter bearings were improperly hardened or the clearances were incorrect and the bearings seized inside the rollers or the pin holding the roller was bad somehow.
You are correct
Excellent, definitely can understand the information. I bought a retired 2014 Charger Police issue with 5.7 with 120k prior to knowing about the issue. I bought it to use for side jobs requiring emergency lights. I had it for almost a year and was on vacation when the had to floor it to o move from being hit. I heard what sounded like a small explosion and heard the dreadful ticking sound. Although faint it did not seem to affect the overall performance till later on. The tick turned into a knocking sound and much more pronounced. Eventually pressure started to decrease. It has been parked since because everyone (Mechanic) I have talked to said that I should not worry about having it repaired and that I should just buy another motor. Sure…on a Police Officers salary…heck throw in a Hellcat motor! Lol. But I would like some solid advise. Thanks for the video!
Mostly commenting on this to get to 667 comments, but that was probably the best videos about the Hemi tick on TH-cam! Great job!
I agree with this video. Lucas Oil Stabilizer could help.
The answer for me was to install Comp Cam stage 2 and Hellcat lifrers. No mor MDS. The cam of course is billet as the old cam was ductile. 3 years , no peoblems idling as much as i want. But , with gas prices now , idling is bad for your $$$. Nice horspower gain and tuner changed the shifts to badass new heights. Fun to drive.
Great advice I have a 2013 ram 5.7 I did Change out the oil pump for the Hellcat oil pump, it took my rear seal. I think the reason it had 216k miles on it. I believe the seal was old couldn't handle the higher pressure.
Best video I’ve seen on the issue and the “real” solution to prevent it or prevent it again. 👍🏼🇨🇦
Came across this video and agreed with everything you said. But I happen to prevent the hemi tick on my 2012 ram 5.7 by simply changing the oil weight. I have been using 10w-40 for years now and truck is at 221,000 miles. No issues no problems what so ever. My oil pressure never have I seen drop below 48psi hot idle and drives around 54psi. Better psi than most people post on Facebook. Like I said truck is bone stock no tunes no nothing internal done. MDS is disabled and 10w-40 oil is what I use. Also got a 180tstat.
10/11/2021 Good Info. My brother has a hemi in his 1 ton. No issues yet but now we will know what is what to stop the shade tree guys from a lot of unnecessary upgrades and milling. Some shops can screw up a one car funeral with add ons. Good one Don
Back in the 80s GM had a problem with Chev V8 flat cams. They had changed the way the cams were hardened (I believe from flame to induction hardening). Their cams were going flat everywhere.
Nice video very good quality but I disagree having worked on dodges at the dealership for over 10 years now many of the issues regarding Cam and lifters shows no damage to the cam
I think melling makes a high volume oil pump for the hemi engines. I also agree that a HV oil pump is a better solution then writing a high idle tune. Enjoying all these hemi videos. Keep up the good work.
On my second cam lifter replacement on a 2011 5.7. This makes perfect sense and yes mine is a high idle time truck. First one at 168000 this one 70,000 or so later. Great video, thanks…
Owner of a '13 Hemi Ram. So would a cam/lifter upgrade be a good work around? (I am not experiencing any tick yet with 150k miles) and if so, what's a good mild performance setup? What cost estimate would I be looking at for parts and labor?
My replacement Melling HV pump fixed my issues on my 6.2 GM suv! Was a pain to install though, but well worth it.
Thank you for this Video. I just bought a 2016 1500 ram with 92xxx and it's running great now and all this talk about issues has me a bit worried I might be experiencing this in the next 20xxx miles.
12’ 5.7 grand Cherokee and it definitely has this tic, and it definitely it the psi at idle, I’ve literally been concerned when looking at my oil psi while sitting idle. And when ever I’m idle at a light that’s when the tic occurs most frequently. Once I get up to 2000 rpm it stops.
I enjoyed the simple and direct instruction on this video. Thanks
The over looked issue with the oil pump( same pump on the 4.7) is they are are a steel rotor inside and aluminum housing, they have different rates of expansion and both are soft and very intolerant to foreign matter in the oil. The inside of the casting and the rotor get scored and loose suction. Ever notice cast iron oil pumps in big block mopars, small block anythings dont have these issues, yet Buicks and AMC, this hemi and the POS 4.7 do, all front mounted aluminum case pumps.
That's funny I had a 04 Jeep 47 ho motor would almost 500,000 MI. My hemi and my ram went out 130,000 left here in cam issue which one is the POS
I'm old-school an I am very picky about the sevice on my engines an I was taught by a old time mechanic how to build an turn wrenches on motors an have found that good clean oil an oil viscosity Matters an in my opinion the thin oil they say they require now days is not enough. I have a 5.4 triton Ford with 300'000 on it an it's all original. I use a oil additive like stp or Lucas for extra zinc even in roller motors that seems to help a lot.
I got 64k miles on my 2017 5.7 use nothing but Royal purple. Still sounds and runs smooth
I'm an old Chevy guy myself but I've had an eye on the newer Hemis ever since they came out. I got kind of turned off when I learned the heads had to be pulled to change the lifters; but the problems with them peaked my interest again because I'm running a billet solid roller retro in a 1st gen smblk I modified for wrist-pin oilers because I'm using a few pounds of forced induction. Well, you all know how it is: whenever you F with one thing it Fs with another. In my case ideal oil pressure is as low as one can get away since the pump is driven off the distributor and its drive gear is the sacrificial lamb for the billet cam; but then how low is too low? I have a HV Melling shark-tooth with a washer in it yet on hot days I'm under 20psi @ idle because of the wrist pin oilers. There's actually nine of them too because one's up front on the chain. I went with bushing instead of needle bearing roller lifters (cause of broken needle paranoia); and rev kit springs were recommended so I added those too. I didn't like the extra 20 degrees of heat they added; but opening up through the bumper behind where a front tag could go for the oil-cooler took care of that; and they they take rotational strain off the link-bars, and any slack out that can aid in pounding out of the rollers. It's been three years now and I've only readjusted once; but I don't know if there's such a thing as rev kits for new Hemis or not. They also keep the lifters in place if any of the push-rods go South so it might be worth looking into. The main thing I notice about the Hemi (and even the LS) pumps is that increasing the gear depth for a higher volume plays hell with the harmonic balance position on the crank which really sucks. I'm heavy into DC motor drives so I've looked into all kinds of electrically driven automotive accessory options; and one of them I've been considering for a long time is an electric oil pump. Since they can always be interlocked with the ignition through a pressure switch to prevent damage, the only real concern with them is current draw. However, I don't really think it would be anything near that of an electric power-steering pump which can draw as much as 60 to 70 amps @ 12vdc. Considering my Stewart EMP brushless WP is only about 15A, my guess for an electric oil pump would be somewhere around 30A, may be 40A which is fairly reasonable. The thing is, an electric pump won't vary in speed without a drive and a change of speed reference; but then is increasing oil-pressure with engine speed something that is even necessary or desirable? What would be the best pressure to run as a constant throughout the entire RPM range then? I still have more questions than answers; but I realize I'm not near as likely to get any if I just keep all my questions to myself.
Definitely like your thoughts here, and I agree the idea of an electric oil pump is intriguing, I think it could very easily be integrated into the existing platform and I agree the amperage draw wouldn't be prohibitive. Hmm, ideas....
My father had an 05 Hemi Jeep (we now own it) that had a failed lifter that ate the cam. It was rebuilt under warranty then had to be rebuilt a second time because they didn't get all the metal shavings out of the engine, they ended up replacing the block the second time. Oil was always changed at 3k miles using Mobil 1 5w20, he's an older guy so he never beat on it and he never towed anything with it either. It does happen to the 03-08 models but it might not be as 'common' as the 09+ though.
After reading on these issues sounds like a better oil spec is in order
I've been using bio lube and Schaffers MP at oil half life and never exceed 6k on changes on 18 6.4
Please test out the hellcat pump on 5.7 and 6.4 thank you. Great information
Yes yes
The "Hemi tick" is way older than 2009. I have a 2005 and have been researching it since then. The only oil that lessens the tick is Royal Purple motor oil
As I mentioned in the video, there are different Hemi ticks, the one discussed in this video pertains to the specific failure of the roller lifter.
Just did jay green cam swap on a customers 2010 300 5.7 due to lifter failure, cam was worn also but the lifter was cashed mopar is not the only ones having the issue gm has it too
That is correct , the gm ls engines with afm have the exact same problem .
Because they also run the crap 5w20 oil. Running heavier oil like 5w30 10w30 5w40 IS THE ANSWER. The 5w20 oil is the common denominator to all these cam and lifter failures. Also add Zinc to your oil as it has been reduced in late oil which is also a big part of the problem.
I still feel the Cam is not the Focus of the failure, but the Lifter Pin wearing out allowing the roller to come up and jam then eat heavily away at the cam. However the Cams do show some damage in a chattering style pattern which also gives me idea there is some lifter lift and rapping on the lobes. Almost like a valve spring issue not controlling the lifter at higher rpms. I found this damage on three separate cams on different lobes, 2011, 2012, and a 2013. The 12/13 had no cam failures either. Also, when it comes to oil pressure, need both volume and pressure. But pressure is based on resistance to flow, and therefore volume. So you can have one high and other low vica versa. You can have plenty of volume and low pressure. High pressure and no volume. REGARDLESS, THANK YOU, thank you, thank you, but putting out there that 1920s-1950s oiling systems are not a good base to judge new tech, and dribbling oil over a lifter simulating angles and oiling out in the open is an idiotic way to prove a point. To date the best hemi lifter failure video I have seen.
Good point. With the pursuit for better mpgs, the spring could be as light as they can get it, and some were not within spec. Someone could do a spring rate test on the springs for cams that failed and ones that are still good.
The past 3 13 and up cam/lifter jobs I e done all was bad on cylinder 5. No other cylinder on all 3. One was a ram 2nd a jeep and 3rd was a charger. Cyl 5 on all 3 is a little weird. Great vid. Ty for the info
If they changed the lifters and now they fail it must be the pump!! You tube taught me that!!
This isn't quite what's going on. Reignited, have you Rockwell tested the later VVT camshafts? If you have you would see that the hardness has not changed. There's several things that did change in the 09-up engines, mainly the VVT and MDS solenoids which take additional oil volume to operate, as well as the piston oil squirters. The cam and the roller on the lifter is the effect of the issue, not the cause. The cause actually starts at the other end of the lifter. As you mentioned, the oil galley feeds the lifter body in the lifter bore, and this oil drains over the roller. This part actually works fine for a stock engine and normal street driving. Also as you mentioned the hydraulic tensioner/valving is fed from the pushrod. Here's where the problem starts. The oil comes from a galley in the block, goes up through the heads, fills the rocker shafts, oils the rocker body bore and tip, the pushrod tip, THEN it gets fed down the pushrod to the last thing in the engine which is the hydraulic part of the lifter. After time each of those points along the way get slightly warn, and bleed off a bit of pressure. The oil feed to the hydraulic part of the lifter is marginal at best with no wear on the crankshaft bearings, cam bearings, lifter bores, pushrod tips, rocker shafts, etc. What happens is eventually there is not enough oil pressure at the pushrod to keep the hydraulic cylinder pumped up in the lifter. The plunger inside gets stuck down, then there is excessive slop in the valvetrain. Every time the lifter moves up and down with excessive slop, the roller wheel hammers the cam lobe surface. This quickly takes out the needle bearings inside the roller wheel, then the wheel drags across the lobe surface. The only real fix for this is a direct fed hydraulic lifter that oils the hydraulic part of the lifter straight from the lifter galley in the block, like pretty much all other V8 pushrod engines. The only lifter made to do that currently is the Johnson race lifters. They do not rely on the poor oil feed that comes down the pushrod. They also have a pressure fed axle version for engines that need it due to aggressive valvetrains, and a direct fed, axle fed, limited travel hyd version that can be used almost as effectively as a solid roller. Because these aftermarket lifters feed direct from the lifter bore galley they can not be used for or with MDS. When the MDS solenoid closes the oil galley to the lifter bores it does so completely. No oil pressure there. That's why Chrysler had to rely on oiling the hydraulic valving backwards from down the pushrod, in order to keep it pumped up.
Love the info, I'm going to try to get a set of those lifters to check them out for myself 👍
@@ReignitedAuto the Johnsons also pick up a LOT of power due to the consistent oil supply and tight valving in the lifter. I know a guy that did a lot of testing for Johnson. On a 4" stroke 6.1L they did an A/B test on the non MDS "Hellcat" lifter vs the Johnson. It picked up almost 40 HP! Granted this was a high RPM street/strip engine, and the spongy lifter issues make them perform worse the higher you rev it. BUT they're definately worth power, and with the added reliability, the power is a bonus.
@@ReignitedAuto the Hellcat pump is not a bad idea. Especially on a higher mileage, warn engine. It can keep up with internal leakage from slightly warn parts better than the OE 5.7 pumps. It just doesn't totally cure the initial problem of a weak supply to the hydraulic valving side of the OE lifters. Be sure to centralize the center ring gear to the housing before torquing it in place.
the hardness. minimum oil pressure equates to bearing clearance. increase each bearing clearance .0002" and you'll have a psi drop. I put the bigger pump in most gen III and gm LS stuff with the mds/dod system but the big issue with the gen III is the cam hardness. I feel at the time the contractor ran the cores to fast to meat demand.
You sir are a great educator. These videos have been a great find!
Awesome, I love the outside venue.
I actually have a serious request, I can’t find any information on it on the Internet and it’s actually a very interesting topic. Experimental/homemade aircraft use a few particular V-8 car engines. The Aftermarket V8 selection is always the LS/LT Chevy engine. It has been very successful and is dialed in well for aircraft use. Because the Chevy engine has been used often, aftermarket programming and other aftermarket devices have been created for aircraft needs using the LS.
So, I understand once there is a niche created by a manufacturer it can, by ease of use, create a monopoly. I have studied dodge V-8 truck engines, their V-8 Performance engines and their V 10. They appear to meet all of the standards and quirks for the aircraft application. There is a rumor that the Dodge engines do not turbo charge very well, meaning turbo charging causes some specific damage to the Dodge lineup. I don’t necessarily believe that, because I have not been showen any evidence or statements from a professional that is an issue.
Being a fan of Dodge, I have looked far and wide and find no information about why dodge engines are not pursued for kit planes. There is one exception, legend kit planes offers a V-10 dodge as an option for their P 51 Mustang. There are no TH-cam videos about why hemi engines are not used and there’s nothing on my Internet searches. I thought if you had any information on it or even speculation that it might make a fun short video for you. You would surely expand your audience into the fairly large experimental aircraft Community. Bonus‼️
In my opinion the Hemi engine is just as reliable as its LS counterpart. For me the issue is packaging, the LS is a very compact engine, able to be put in a variety of very tight places, while the Hemi engine is quite broad. If you put them side by side it's startling just how much bigger the Hemi engine is. But also availability, it's much more expensive to start with a Hemi engine, and the aftermarket support just isn't there like it is for the LS. Those are the two major limiting factors in my mind. Thanks for watching I appreciate it!
@@ReignitedAuto thanks for the information, that is very informative actually. If I ever put a hemi in a kit plan I will let you know. That is actually my goal Someday.
@@kneedeepsnow16 I'd love to see it if you do 👍
The hemi tick is like politics every one has a opinion I've heard everything from lack of oil to the upper end to they just got a bunch of bad lifter's to it had something to do with the displacement on demand its nice to see your no nonsense aproch the the problem LS engines have had similar issues with the needle bearing in it's rocker shafts as well I think the hell cat pump is a great idea thanks for posting this
I noticed my 2020 ram actually idles at about 500rpm. Not sure why chrysler does this on some vehicles but this could be a reason. Most vehicles idle at 600+rpm. My old 2002 dakota 4.7 idled low like this too. Certainly a lower than average idle rpm is not going to help anything at all.
Hello, I watched this video hoping that one of the items of misinformation that you would correct is the common claim that oil pumps create pressure. Unfortunately that was not the case. I will attempt to clarify the function of a pump, any pump, any type of pump, anywhere on this earth. The purpose of a pump is to create FLOW! That is all. In hydraulic systems, PRESSURE is defined as " resistance to FLOW". Your explanation of the difference between a standard pump and a high pressure pump is correct. The relief valve and spring you spoke of is one of the devices that cause the resistance to flow. A stiffer spring requires more force to push the valve open. The moment the valve opens the resistance to flow is eliminated and fluid returns to the sump. This cycle repeats continuously provided all the oil clearances of bearings, orifices, galleries, etc. are within specifications. If these clearances are beyond the maximum spec, the pump may never reach the high pressure setting. Explaining the actual function of a pump is especially important when dealing with issues that may be due to a poorly functioning pump. The oil pressure gauge in the instrument panel is an excellent tool to assist with determining the condition of the engine bearings. within the manufacturers normal range, high oil pressure is a sign of a healthy engine and low oil pressure is a sign of an ailing engine. If the oil pressure gradually drops over the life of the vehicle, it is likely due to worn components and requires service. I do give you credit for recommending the high VOLUME pump near the end. As stated, the high volume pump flows more oil to the engine components at a lower rpm while maintaining a pressure that will not push oil past seals etc. Regarding the 2008 and earlier hemi's, I have had issues with lifters in 07 and 08 engines as well as piston skirt slap in an 07 ram 1500 with the hemi. The piston pins were seized and appeared to be from overheating. A high volume pump may have helped in that particular engine.
I’m not rolling with the cam hardness but the idle oil pressure would definitely cause the problem.
I have 2 vehicles that are the 2008-2009 (made after June of 2008) govt fleet vehicles one has the 4.7 hemi the other the 5.7 hemi both have the infamous hemi tick this was a very interesting video
Contact Melling if you want a high volume pump. In addition to supplying US cars with their original equipment oil pumps. they are considered to be the best at producing the best aftermarket oiling parts as well. If there is a Hellcat pump that works, you can get it from them. If you believe - and you convince their engineers - they are likely to produce an even higher volume/pressure pump if it would universally solve the problem with lifter tick.
I have an old 1969 Barracuda fastback have been think of putting a new Hemi and transmission in it for my last new car thank for the high volume oil pump solution.
hi from Germany
I heard a faint ticking sound on my 2019 Challenger 392 at 10,000 miles.... I was really scared because there is no guarantee for Import Dodge.
So I tried other oils.
Don't use thin oil anymore.
I'm now using 10w60 Castrol Edge and not Penzoil 0w40...that's way too thin.
Since I've been using this I haven't heard a tick tick tick.
Incidentally, I installed an HV pump in my 383 in the Iroc Camaro... that helped a bit.... this one also needs 10w60 Castrol and a bottle of Lucas Oilstbilisator.
the Hemi needs the thick oil here .... sometimes I drive almost 180 mp/h ~~300 km/h fast and then the thin oil becomes as liquid as water.
Greeting from Germany
Did the API standards that started lowering zinc and phosphorous additives correspond with VVT for the HEMI? I think it started with API SL? And has decreased with each new standard, we're on SN+ now? The zinc and phosphorous were high pressure additives specifically for the valvetrain, and the argument was that all engine now used roller lifters/followers and thus did not need these additives that will eat away at O2 sensors and catalytic converters. Could this be the case of underestimating how much roller valvetrains need the high pressure additives, especially with VVT?
Very informative. Please forward this video to Uncle Tony's Garage. He has many thousands of viewers, all Mopar heads, and he's the guy that says it's the raised cam causing the problem. I believed it until just now. Please set him straight so he can set his viewers straight. I can't, I dont know how.
My dear 03 hemi developed a tick at some point over a road trip this past weekend 😢
Im in the hot climate of Texas. I do alot of idling with my work. I have a 17 ram hemi purchased 2 years ago I originally I used basic full synthetic oil like Walmart or Valvoline for my first few oil changes and then tried royal purple and could immediately hear and feel the difference on the first startup. Been using RP ever since. Never had the tick (on this Ram) but, it idled smoother and engine was quieter. And ran smooth. Last oil change i tried out that German Liquimoly, After reading all these good things about it i was convinced it's was superior oil. Yes I know amsoil and redline are better but they also cost $70-$140 for 7 quarts. A week after oil change with lquimoly I started to hear the tick. Imedeitly what came to my head was that the oil being made in Germany is probably a engineered & superior for cold as shit climates. cuz also noticed it the oil was very thin and watery, compared to what I was used to with RP. So after 2 weeks of the tick I'm gonna take the loss and drain it and put RP back in, as I write this. Any truth to my theory??
I've heard the tick on new ones! So that's just a lifter that's bled off , because the tick goes away second or two after start !
Yea pretty much all the Hemis will rattle on cold start especially if they've been sitting for a few days.
I was told to put a sidewinder cam into my 05 awd RT.
Thank you for this professional video, which included a lot of valuable information. Thank you for sharing this information with us
Great video with great info and analysis! I didn't have any wear on my cam when I swapped it out for a performance one but then again I don't idle a ton either. Interesting conclusion, I wonder if that Hellcat pump is a direct fit. 🤔
I have a 2012 Ram with the 5.7, it's had the same tick before and after replacing the entire top end including cam, lifters and valves. The tickets is identical before and after, $1500 wasted.
Had a brand new motor installed, sounds the same after 1000k miles. Now has 40,000 more miles and sound hasn’t gone away. Also hasn’t blown up. People go 300k with that noise and never have anything happen.not sure what to think really lol
Higher psi will cost mpg's. That why. They went with a lower oil psi.
Cam lobe hardening would make sense because hardened steel doesn't mushroom, it chips and shatters. However, on the hemi engines I've seen this issue on, the cam lobes were mushroomed on the outside edge where the lifter roller edges are.
Camshafts aren't fully hardened, just surface hardened. Once the surface hardening wears out, the rest will wear out much faster.
@@DL101ca it's like a chicken and egg situation. Did improperly hardened needle bearings inside the roller cause the cam lobes to go bad or did improperly hardened cam lobes cause the needle bearings to go bad.
Since I've seen many instances where the cam was fine but the lifter bearings were bad, I'm still leaning toward lifters as the cause.
The cam hardening isn't going to wipe out the bearing inside the lifter here's something to think about the variable valve timing setup that they did may require a little bit more oil it's clearly an oil issue if providing better oil flow and pressure solves the issue set an idle at low oil pressure and low oil volume that should tell you the new setup uses more oil there is no way that can be cam hardness
Well I’m taking mine to the shop on Monday, I’ll see about putting the Hellcat pump on and get back to you on fitment if I decide to go down that path. So far it looks the same (only mm differences in size)
what year, model, vehicle engine do you have?
05 jeep grand Cherokee 5.7..awd baby!
212xxx miles still kicking
My 5.7, #5 lifter was chewed and seized, hot tick, all other lifters good, but every lobe on cam the chrome was peeling off. 123k miles. 5000 mile oil changes. Are the lifters causing excessive wear on the camshaft or is the camshaft causing excessive friction on the rollers, therefore causing roller lifter failure? A mechanic at RAM told me yesterday he’s done 20 of these they all had a cylinder 5 lifter failure. This confuses the investigation even more because how could only one specific lobe be affected more than others? Lastly, cams are $300 and MDS lifters are $700. That’s also confusing.
I don't have a lot of answers for you, but I do have one. As far as the cost of parts goes, when Chrysler has to pay for parts through warranty they have to pay a mandatory mark up cost to the dealership of 40% or more. If they drop the initial cost of the part itself then they don't have to pay as much markup. So, on parts where they are replacing a lot of them, like camshafts, they drop the parts price significantly to save themselves money.
thanks man just purchased a 19 392 6speed got me wondering 🤔 know
Would it be possible to show a video on how a DIY man can do this job please. I asked my dealer and the workshop supervisor (a female) said no we won’t do that - if it needed doing Chrysler would do it and it might void your warranty. I don’t think she believed that it would help or believed that there is even a problem - but in any case refused to fo the work.
So I am going to have to do it myself engine in the RAM1500 and a video would be awesome! (Please)
You are in luck, in two weeks I'll be releasing a video showing the process on a dodge magnum, is a very similar process on the trucks though. The major difference is that you will have to remove your oil pan to access the nut holding the pickup tube in place.
@@ReignitedAuto That is fantastic I will look forward to that and want to thank you for a very informative channel. RAM1500 and Hemi are a relatively rare vehicle in Australia, and your channel is turning out to be such a useful and important resource for me as a new RAM / hemi owner. Thanks kindly for all the good work you are doing.
I ended up following the how to video and did the job in my driveway. Comments above on what I learned. It was a good thing to do
I worked at a fleet shop and we had 28 caravans with 3.6L, and between 120k-150k miles the cam and lifters would be chewed up.
Yessir, now in the case of the 3.6 I blame that completely on the crappy quality of the stock rocker arms, they fall apart very easy, and they are so cheap to replace that it's no wonder they fail!
@@ReignitedAuto exactly what i thought, i was a ford tech for 9 years before that job. I was not familiar with the 3.6. After 2-3 failed we replaced the rocker arms on the ones with 100k. I just bought a 21 ram and was nervous when i heard about the tick problem, i feel better after watching your videos explaining the issue.
GM had the same issue in the late 80s/ early 90s in the 4.3l V6. They said that the cams were ( A little soft)! I changed to a GM off road cam, and no more problems. What do You think about using one step up in oil viscosity? I use Mobil one 20w-50w in air cooled vintage race bikes. Never had any crank, or cam issues. These bikes get Hot!!
Can better oil help too? When I bought my 2017 Ram 1500, used, 3 years ago, it came with cheap conventional in it, idled at 26 - 27 psi, then I heard about the cam issues and switched to Amsoil Signature, it idles at 38 psi now and no dry lifter tap for a few seconds when you first start it for the day.
Same here. I have samples independent Blackstone lab tested. I have experimented with up to 12,000 mi interval based on the opinion of the lab. I don’t idle and have at least 50% highway with rare towing. Basically personal business vehicle. The lab knew what I was wanting to look for and accomplish so they addressed back to me in detail. Bottom line comment was, “all signs of a health Hemi” I use Amsoil Signature 5-20. My choice. Your results may vary.
Same for ATF which I changed for first time at 111K. Yeah I know NOW but still nothing unusual from the lab. The break-in metals had collected on the magnet and the bottom of the pan. The fluid was not burned or overly degraded. Amsoil ATF went back in the tranny. I will change ATF at factory intervals going forward.
Also, I never use additives except in the fuel for alcohol issues. Run 87
Need exhaust bolts changes for sure.
@@brhud3263 Yeah, those pesky exhaust manifold bolts, I've yet to own a Ram and haven't had to replace those, lol. I'm not buying in to that "lifetime" transmission, so therefore they omitted the tranny dipstick, just rolled 55k on my 17 Ram and getting the fluids changed in a couple days. Glad to see the good reports from Blackstone, I don't do any extensive idling either.
@@matthewwatson572 I will change ATF fluid ongoing at about 35K interval. It’s so easy when you just swap pans. Amsoil recommends 12K on motor oil intervals. I went ahead and did the distributor ship to get the rewards and discounts. I don’t sell commercially but run Amsoil in every vehicle and small engine driven device we own.
Hemi introduced in 2003? I had a 1951 Chrysler with a hemi. It was a monster.
Gen 3 Hemi was released in 2003 is what I meant. 👍
Oh yea I am soooo glad I ditched my 4th gen after 6 short months bought it used and had already had enough of the several problems.
I like the outside classroom setting
My 2004 Hemi Laramie has 300,000 miles on it. Pulls a trailer and been ticking for 100,000 miles.
I paid 2000 dollars for it lol.
I drive the shit out of it and even get compliments on it.
Still a nice truck.
Is not the oil issue, is the material over cost and profit. Around 2010-2011 mopart went with a different supplier which is a lot cheaper then the previous one on roller and cams. Cheaper material equal cheaper cost and make more profit.
Certainly can't deny that if there's a penny to be saved Chrysler will do it 😄
You explanation was so awesome dear brother.
I had this happen on my 2018 JL Wrangler 3.6l...
I got 2018 ram 1500 and my oil pressure is run round 49-50 when drive down the road and round 15-20 pressure when idle
I just had a lifter changed at 14k miles they told me the cam was fine but said it would be fine even before they changed it. If it did get chewed up some would it cause another failure relativity quick?
If the lobe is worn or pitted then absolutely it'll wipe out the new roller lifter in a fairly short period of time.
I'm a first time Hemi engine owner. I have a 2022 Bighorn with the 5.7 liter non E-torque motor. I drive conservatively in town and run 70 to 80 mph highway. Most of my driving is highway miles.
I do my own oil and filter changes and have never had a problem with my previous Ram 6 cylinder engines. I've been changing the oil at 6,000 miles using full synthetic proper weight oils.
Would it be a good idea to change the oil at 5,000 miles or possibly sooner? I have considered getting a tuner kit to disable the "ECO" 4 cylinder shutdown system. I would prefer not to start changing parts on a less than 1,000 miles engine.
What do you think would be my best options to make this engine last 200,000 miles. I drive 20,000 plus a year, again mostly highway.
I am a hemi fan , make no mistake , however this issue is a flaw design in the engine since most engines live a long happy life with 30-35 psi oil pressure, I don't know where these " theorist's " come up with average oil pressure is " x" but id more volume stops the problem than it probably is the way to go. reckon ill do cam lifter upgrade and pump when i get into the 90s
Almost true. In 2009 Daimler sold CJDR to Cerberis and then to Fiat. They changed the oil from Mobil 1 to Pennzoil. I think that made the difference. I think Mobil 1 was a better oil.
2013 ram with 95000 miles almost no tick but change oil every 3500 miles with almost 0 idle time... yep I am a retired mechanic... I have 35 idle and 55 hot psi
So is this what causes misfire when the cam shaft is worn? I was hoping just to change the lifters.
I just bought a "leftover" brand new 2022 Challenger R/T 5.7L, and I noticed two things: 1) The recommended oil is 0W-20 full synthetic (meeting standard MS-6395), and 2) The cold idle is set to ~1250 rpm. I know all vehicles start out with a higher cold idle, but 1250 seems higher than any of the other vehicles I've owned. Are those possibly to (at least partially) address the cam/lifter issue?