The Fatal Flaw of the 5.7L Eagle Hemi V8 Engine Fully Explained (2009+ Lifters and Camshaft Failure)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- Today we are taking at look at the fatal flaw of the Gen III 5.7L Hemi V8, which is the lifters seizing and wearing down the camshaft lobe. This issue was found in many of the 2009-Present Hemis (Eagle Hemi), engines under the hood of 12 different vehicles and many generations. It affects an estimated 5% of all the Hemis.
We’re not here today to talk about the success of the 5.7 Hemi, but rather the fatal flaw that has killed so many engines. I decided to research the issue and look into it further, and shed some light on this issue, especially if you are considering buy a used vehicle that has this Hemi. In this video, we will look at the specs of the engine, and then look at the major issue of the Hemi tick (aka lifters failing and damaging the camshaft) including what it is, what it affects, and how to prevent it from happening.
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#Hemi #Hemilifters #HemiFlaw #5.7LHemi #Hemicamshaft
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This video came out just as I was removing a seized lifter from my Ex Police 2015 Charger Pursuit. I caught the lifter tick so early, it didn't get a chance to damage my camshaft. Lucky me. To all Hemi owners, listen to your engine! Nice video by the way!
I want to know how many idle hours your engine has...
@@flatoutnorth794 Around 2,700 idle hours.
@@hoonpatrol5994 impressive
@@flatoutnorth794 They're strong motors and they come apart easy. I was able to replace the lifters in my Garage with nothing but hand tools. One thing you should watch out for is the T fitting that connects to the upper side of the heater core. They like to fail, and the car has no low coolant sensor to indicate any problems until it's too late, so if you smell coolant, pull over ASAP. My car nearly overheated, and I believe that was the final nail in the coffin causing the original lifters to fail.
@@hoonpatrol5994 that's some good information! I've been particularly looking for a 2015 16 charger pursuit for a moderate price at auction. They go quick. I'll snag one soon enough.
Actually better than I expected, a few things though.
1) It's not a lack of overall lubrication. The lifters are drenched in oil and actually have THREE oil sources. There's a main oil galley that is ALWAYS providing oil to the outside of the lifter body. This is the source that lubricates the needles. The inside of the lifter is supplied oil from the head that flows down the pushrod. And the MDS system provides a third source when activated.
2) The lifter part number has changed, the last letter of the part number is the evolution. The current lifter is D, the needle bearings first got larger with the C introduced in 2014. The photo shown at 5:12 is a key thing to understand. From '14 up they'll look like the lower one. The C-D evolution is an internal change that did not effect the bearings.
3) The idling and oil viscosity thing also has a lot to do with heat. Compare the 6.4 to the 5.7, they both use the same lifters, both have MDS and VVT, and both have similar camshafts. But the 6.4 doesn't experience a lot of lifter failures. There's two key differences. The 6.4 specifies a 0W40 oil and has an oil cooler. The 5.7 specifies 5W20 and usually doesn't. So in the 5.7 the oil is already thinner and at times hotter which again makes it thinner. This is a key part of idling as the engine relies on air flow under the oil pan to cool the oil. Then consider that often engines are idled for long periods to run the AC, which again makes everything hotter.
More like shitty parts.
@@kb9oak749 Thanks for the insightful reply.
Excellent information to add to the video!
Would you recommend running a different viscosity on the 5.7 then?
@@renameduser5279 I'll tell ya this, my '14 with 55K is due for it's second oil change since I've owned it. In the first change I put in Redline high performance 5W20, this time, probably this weekend, I'll be putting in Redline 0W30. After my research I've decided that's best for me, but I'm not going to recommend something I haven't yet done.
You pay 60-70k on a vehicle and they consider 118k miles "the life of the vehicle"? Damn
I love the no trans dip stick too,,,,,, No need to check it because its good for the life of the vehicle...LOL! So yah, life of the vic is around 120k...LOL
Rotella T6 5w-40 in my 5.7 I use it in my 392 as well. The reason is it doesn't have the lubrication stripped to meet gasoline oil standards. Rotella used to be gasoline approved until the epa required less zinc and phosphorus because it is dirtier for the environment. So basically we're using oil that's not adequate in my opinion. So for example I believe the epa requires 700ppm or less of phosphorus to be a gas engine oil. Rotella t6 has around 1200-1400 I believe. You would have to research Virgin oil analysis to see what each oil you use had in it. Very interesting if you care to research it. This same kind of thing happened to older diesel trucks when they took sulfur out of the fuel. All the older trucks that needed the lubrication in the fuel started having fuel injection pumps and injectors sticking and seizing. Easy fix is add a little two stroke oil or similar fuel lubricity additive to make up for it. Basically it's not about amount or volume of flow but rather the additive package that makes the oil slick is not adequate. They don't care about the engine over its lifetime they only care about environmental bullshit.
The low phosphorus might be part of the problem with the oil but the real culprit is the low Zinc levels that are now down around 8-900ppm. The Zinc should be up over 1100 and preferably up around the 13-1400 range. The Zinc was reduced because it is thought to have been hurting catalytic convertor life. In any event higher viscosity oil is Definetly helpful. Stupid 5w20 is insane to run.10w30 to 15w40 is the only way to go depending on where you live. ie The hotter the climate the Thicker oil you should run.
5W40 doesn't throw a code in your 5.7? I keep reading in forums that too thick of an oil will throw a code on the 5.7.
I like Rotella T6, I use it in many of my older engines both gas and diesel. However in my 5.7 Hemi I use Redline High Performance. The Redline is pricey, but a true esther base synthetic(T6 is crude based) with great performance including 1200 PPM of ZDDP anti-wear additives. I'm currently using their 0W30 and think it might be the ideal oil for this engine used as a high performance daily.
These engines if they don't throw a code can clearly handle a 40wt as it's what's used in the 6.4. However I think it's overkill and will only lead to lower efficiency, hotter oil, and faster oil breakdown. The 6.4 uses 40wt because they have piston oil squirters that use oil to cool the pistons, the 5.7 does not.
My 2010 RT has 204,000 and runs like a clock..... *knock on wood*... That being said, it's whole life has never been late for any service and always used full synthetic. She is also not beat to death. Only idles in traffic and oil is changed every 5K.
Thank you. You are living proof as I have exhausted myself telling others the same. Change the damn oil every 3,000 and the filter and as you said high end quality oil. Period guys. SMH.
By runs like a clock you mean it ticks?
I had 180,000 miles on my 09 Challenger RT 5.7 Hemi,only issue was a waterpump at 140,000...I do floor my cars daily..Sold it a few years ago to a friends son,he still has it and its still rockin!
@@Iamadroid 99% of the dreaded "Hemi Tick" instances are upon initial startup, and you are hearing the tiny exhaust leak from the broken exhaust manifold studs. That isn't good but it isn't engine damage. Mine quiets down after about 30 seconds and runs like a top. Good oil every 3000-5000mi is the key to overall longevity
@@01trsmar Exactly, the problem isn't with the abuse while driving, unless you count the fact that to many do so with dirty oil and change it when the indicator says 0% oil life. Don't waste money, but if you constantly hammer on your Hemi, you MUST change the oil frequently. The Hemi is just more sensitive to this issue
I have 123,800 miles on my '12 Challenger R/T w/M6 manual trans, most of which were highway miles. It runs flawlessly and shows no signs of letting up. I run AmsOil synthetics in all my vehicles, no problems at all. We also have a '14 300C w/hemi with 66K miles on it that also runs perfectly, especially after shutting off the Godforsaken MDS system on it.
Keep oil & filter changed frequently, even with high quality oils, and reduce any engine idling time. Works for me!
Yup, personally I go Redline over Amsoil, and like the MDS system, but yup. I have a '14 300 Hemi AWD, I like the MDS but instead of turning it off I tweaked it using HP Tuners.
How did you deactivate the mds?
@@kvngtae5886 manual trans cars don't use the MDS crap. I used a tuner to shut mine off in my 300C.
@@MM_in_Havasu Curious what you didn't like about MDS. The system in mine works seamlessly. If I didn't have that "ECO light I wouldn't notice.
You're just lucky, it's not a lack of maintenance problem, it's bad lifters. Oil won't make a difference.
This video was extremely helpful, especially after becoming extremely paranoid after seeing multiple sources online acting like this happens frequently to all 345 Hemis. I recently purchased a 2010 Jeep Commander with the 345 and with your checklist I’m able to cull my anxiety with a good checklist of things to do. Thank you for your help!
Well researched! Owned 2012 Durango (new) which had the MDS and VVT. Sold it in 2017 with 75K miles. No ticking evident however, did experience stalling at low RPM. Always used synthetic oils and replaced at regular intervals. Never had a check engine light when stall occurred...pulled over and restarted...intermittent from then on. That was my clue to trade it in.
I had a 2012 Chrysler 300S I bought new. I had 120,000 miles and it happened to my car. Always changed oil with synthetic oil before it’s time was due. Otherwise nothing else happened to the car. Just didn’t want to deal with it and sold it soon after.
11-13 was rough years man...
2012 AWD 300c with 125,000 bought new, regular Full Synthetic Oil changes. MDS lifter failure & spun cam shaft bearing, Chrysler wanted to replace motor..
Parked it in the garage for now; still trying to decide if I wanna just do a rebuild at a good local shop, or scrap it..
Chrysler….. 😑
I had lifter tick on my 2013 Chrysler 300S. Traded that car in with the swiftness.
221,000 on my 07 Charger R/T, still runs and drives great. Never knew there was a problem till I saw this video. I plan to just leave it alone.
03-08 is a different problem, valve seats dropping. You’re basically immune from this one
@@MarspeedCars Sounds like maybe I've just been lucky. Did change over to full synthetic at about 7,000 miles
@@MarspeedCars The cam lifter issue is worse!
Well, I always said I'd have bought a 2010 Challenger with the Hemi had my dad not intercepted me and talked me into driving to the GM dealer where I bought my Camaro SS. I was this close to signing that paperwork on the RT Spring edition in that pretty blue. It had a pistol-grip shifter and the HID's. It was optioned out and I rather enjoyed that test drive. Had he been in the car with me for that car, he probably would have sang a different tune, but I drove that car first solo, then ran into him and he talked me into going to GM to drive the SS, where he did ride with me.
That said he already bought a Challenger with the V6 and that dude also has the obnoxious ticking on startup, has for years, and it hasn't died yet. So, maybe he saved me from a catastrophic failure, maybe he didn't. The Camaro only has 30k miles on it after 11 years of ownership, so I imagine had I got the Challenger instead, it would have roughly the same mileage and thus no failure yet anyway.
gm makes horrible cars now. you were better off with the fully loaded rt and just change the oil when your supposed to
@@flicksifyr6793 yeah gm hasn’t made a good car since the 90s trucks are ok but if even ram passed them then there not doing much
Can't wait to see a fatal flaw video of the 2.4 Multiair, 3.0 turbo diesel, 2.0t Hurricane.
the eco diesel fails because it was never designed for american emissions. The EGR causes soot accumulation over the the oil channels in the bottom end. Which leads to bottom end failure. A simple EGR delete typically rectifies the issue.
@@johnsailor6081 except the EPA is cracking down on this left and right. Huge fines handed out this is what deters me from any Diesel purchase. The fuel mileage is there, it's expensive up front and expensive to maintain!
@@lightning7582 it depends on where you live. Huge swaths of the country have openly said they are going ignore the EPA. Parts of Wyoming have already passed legislation banning the EPA from taking legal action against emissions tampering
@@johnsailor6081 so how does that work when federal law supercedes state law? It's two different courts
This happened to my 2011 charger .Paid the dealership to get it fixed , still have my old cam as decoration 😎
How much did they run you for buddy?
@@mattblack7874 about 4.2k OTD
That's not bad considering you have to take half the engine apart. Hell if that's pretty much the only problem it has I'd say it's a damn good motor. Look at the new mustangs and their pistons wrings going on them even on new engines which causes total engine failure. I almost got one until I found that out and I loved mustangs my whole life but my Mopar makes me smile so that's all that matters right?
Mine only cost 1,500
I just replaced some lifters on a 2009 ram 1500 last week. The springs inside the mds lifter on cyl 7 broke and rocker arms popped off and bent the push rod. After installing new lifters, the cam wasnt damaged, It runs fine, no misfires, but has a noticeable tick on the other side of the engine now, Took the valve cover off three times and double checked everything and it seems fine. Even double checked exhaust bolts for tightness. The angle of the pushrods are very extreme and the rockers can slide side to side on the rocker shaft and i think some of my noise is the rocker sliding into the hold down bolt. Old mopars from the 60s with shaft mount rockers has spacer like pieces to keep the rockers pretty much where they are supposed to be. These are terrible engines and I have replaced quite a few whole engines at our shop, but this was the first set of lifters i did. I dont think I will be doing anymore. I just cant stand behind it. Ill just have to keep this one customers truck going for the time being.
I’ve installed a Derale oil filter relocation kit with a larger filter and increased oil capacity on my 5.7 Ram 1500 Classic. It’s running a lot smoother. I’ve also gone to a Air Aid Jr intake kit to help with the air/fuel mixture when using poor fuel, it’s worked in my experience.
just curious- do the fittings on your derale kit leak? put one on our diesel tractor and all 4 leaked(pipe taped). redid with dope, leaked, retightened, leaked worse- looked with magnifying glass, all 4 fittings had tiny cracking in the black anodizing- the 'crush' from tapered aluminum fitting caused the hard anodize coating in threads to crack as aluminum fitting slightly compressed...still havent put back on, gotta get some brass barbs or preferably just go steel tube fittings and hard plumb it(tractors dont have flex motor mounts- in a car hoses will be needed)
The photo of the lifter Pin @8:08 is my lifter out of my car. Lifters do have separate oil lubrication beyond the pushrods. The lack of heat stressed discoloration proves there is plenty of oiling. I cna send you better photos of this including photo of the lifter bore oiling gallies. The idea cranksplash is a lubrication issue a joke IMO as the fact the hemi comes with an integrated windage tray also proves this. A new-er theory I and several others are now proposing the idea the valve springs are weak allowing the lifters to lifter off, and rap on the cam surface (have photos of this damage) which would increase the wear on the pins and make sense of the markings found on cams. I would be very happy to share all of this with you (photos ) if you wish.
I applaud your statistic approach to this issue. There is one other takeaway: it is possible that individual lifter failures could be the result of more than one element present in the engine, ie: poor oil selection or maintenance cycle combined with long idle times. The problem with this particular issue is that it appears the overwhelming majority of engines DO NOT suffer from this type of failure, potentially putting it into the 'random' category.
Good video program!!! On both issues, the dropping valve seats and the defective rollers on the lifters; I feel that the reasons why so many earlier designed automotive and industrial engines did NOT develop these types of problems is because they were so much simpler... The earlier engine castings for the heads and the blocks, were made of cast iron... Heavier, than aluminum, yes-usually by 150 -250 lbs... So, when the metals heated up, and the engine reached the normal operating temperatures, the hardened steel valve seats would expand at the same/similar rates that the cast iron heads do... So valve seat separations were extremely uncommon... However, when the heads are made of cast aluminum, the aluminum expands at a greater rate than the hardened steel valve seats do... So special valve seat retention methods are used on aluminum heads to prevent this from happening... But if those special retention devices fail, while the engine is running, MASSIVE internal engine damage occurs to interference type of engines... On the issues with the damaged camshafts & seized lifters, one of the problems that I can see is over-engineering... Too much complexity... So many of the older engine designs had NO lifter/camshaft problems because their camshaft and lifters were located in places where oil drainback from the head(s) drained right on-top of the cams & lifters... Most of the earlier lifters had a flat tappet design... No needle bearings to Seize... Heck, I have an engine in a p/U truck (350 Chevy) that has never been removed from the vehicle since it was built - 45 yards ago... 465k. Miles... Same camshaft, same lifters, I changed the timing set about 360k. Miles ago... The truck still runs very well... Earlier - simpler technology often works so much better , more reliably than the newer/ overpriced / ridiculously over-powered / unreliable / incredibly complex / short-lived designs...
Well said
5% of Hemis suffer these problems??
My question would be what is the average percentage of problems ANY engine has??
NO mechanical engine is perfect, I wish I had a 95% success rate when I went to Vegas!!!
There's a million hemis. If you have one or are looking for one made before 2016 ( I believe after 16' the issue is less common) then just take a listen to the engine. You'll hear the difference
I brought my ram in 09.
Today it has 184,000 miles. Still looks new, rides new.
Tik noise: broken bolts cover under warranty
( i have lifetime warranty )
For 8 years I had no problems
Past 4 years :
Suspension
1 wheel bearing
Ac evaporator
Water pump
Replace timming chain at 183, 356( no issues , just maintenance)
When I hit 1,000 miles I changed the oil. Since then
6 qt of mobile 1 synthetic plus 1 qt of Lucas Synthetic
I think the key is change your own oil, keep up with maintenance
It's not an oil change issue or my lifters wouldn't have gone bad, it's a lifter issue.
@@ChrisGilliamOffGrid maybe its because my truck was made by Chrysler before selling out to Fait. After all they slap a lifetime warranty on my truck
@@DanielGarcia-zz9eg Mine is an 09 also. 198k miles. Getting her rebuilt now with a comp cam. Guess I'll keep that old truck another ten years. Just because she needed a heart transplant is no reason to stop loving her.😉
I work at Chrysler. They are not updating the 5.7 hemi. It’s not 100% confirmed but I’ve seen parts and service sheets for a 3.0 inline six turbo replacement. Or as another option. I believe this would have an hybrid option.
I have a 2011 ,1500 5.7 hemi are DC replacement in effect
Interesting. Very good analysis. I have to say I'm dodging a bullet so far. I've got a '13 300C Luxury that has 126,000 miles on her. I'm the 3rd owner. Bought her with 80,000 miles. Change oil, Valvoline high mileage blended 5W20 every 4,000 to 5,000 miles. Last oil interval was 6,000 miles. That's an exceptional interval as it included a trip Michigan to Florida. But my norm is the 4-5K range. No issues regarding this "Hemi tick". At 100K miles installed long tube headers, Corsa catless cat back exhaust, installed a 180 degree thermostat (factory thermostat is 203 degrees), had a 93 octane tune and had the stock fans programmed to kick on at 180 degrees. Tune was done by Jesse Murray...knows his stuff. Really woke up the car. Have the SRT pages through the Tazer. Car idling in 90 degree heat with the air on, engine temp never goes above 189-190. Just a boulevard cruiser with lots of creature comforts. So yes, I'm dodging a bullet and part of the trouble free 95%.
BEST VID ON THIS SUBJECT I HAVE SEEN!! I was told to use some Lucas syn oil conditioner and a quality Wix filter to help with this issue. Keep idle time to a min... My truck has been solid but only 40K on my 2014. Be sure to change the 8 speed tranny oil early!! Mine was dirty at 40 k miles. It is not bad doing it on your own.
Not "woting" "redlining" missing oil changes and long idles can help a lot *
The new needle bearings seems to indicate that it could have addressed the flaw. We will see.
I hope so. I ordered a 2022 Hemi Ram, and don't want many issues.
@@jmt8706official I did too. It’s already built and waiting to be shipped to the dealership.
I just got the header bolt tick on my 2018 charger RT. Now I can justify long tube headers! 😁
Thank God my 2015 5.7 charger pursuit still runs like new, I bought it mid December 2020 , 6 months 115,000 miles on it when I purchased, and 123,200 now, ive had 2 full synthetic oil changes before designated time, and I drive her like a baby, but I do spin a tire once in a while. 😆, im very happy with my eagle Hemi ☺
I'm eyeing my 2013 pursuit suspiciously. So far, though, she's running good. 113k 5.7
I have a 2015 Jeep with Hemi with 189,000 miles. From the day I bought it new I have always had a loud ticking. I have always maintained my Jeep with the dealer, making sure everything recommended was done. Most years I take long trips sometime more than 5,000 miles to get lost in the mountains & deserts, I never wanted a breakdown to be a problem. About a month ago maybe 10-20% of the time on start up my Jeep would barley turn over, then it started idling very rough, then engine light came on. I made appointment with dealer when it started with the hard starts, it took them a month to get me in. Yesterday 11/28/22 they have informed me my engine is "Blown" and it needs replacement. To back up your theory that idling can facilitate this problem I have idled many times for long periods of time over the years. I am fortunate in that I have a lifetime warranty but it still sucks, even more now that I see they knew.
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but thank you for consolidating the issues and offering potential remedies. I appreciate the learning opportunity. #feedthealgorithm
My 06 has 250k miles. It does have the hemi tick, but im not for sure if its broken header bolt or something else. She runs like a champ. I keep the fluids changed.
Wow that’s awesome! Good to hear
My 09 ram 1500 with the 5.7 has 250k all original drivetrain zero mechanical issues except a few water pumps which is also one of the 5.7 weak points
"Zero mechanical issues, except a few..." Common core math.
@@kwb377 water pumps are maintenance dumbass ill take a mopar over any make of car
@@kwb377 lol I was going to say the same thing.
Zero mechanical issues except for water pumps.. 🤔 are water pumps not mechanical?
My 09 has 198k on it, in shop for cam now.😟
@@dnegel9546 water pumps go out wish I was as smart as the TH-cam mechanics bunch of dumbasses
It's not just the 5.7s, but also the 6.1s, and it's that mill that debunks the MDS. 6.1s don't have them. ALL Hemi's run very hot to try and clean their combustion gases, and are known for carboning up and oil coking. The lifters I've dissected were full of heavy varnish. ( still functional but somewhat sticky) It is imperative that the oil be changed 3-4k even with synthetic, and the best highest grade premium fuels be used to help keep things cleaner. Every Mopar dealer tech and engine rebuilder I've talked to says the fix is the 392 or Hellcat lifter upgrade. There are several aftermarket available that are also supposed to be 'the fix'. These Hemi's can be rather noisy mills, so often times by the time you hear an actual lifter tick, it's too late.
all the failed cams shown had coked oil between the lobes,
I feel sorry for you that you had to go through all that internet prattle, trashtalk and opinions of self-proclaimed experts. I'm not being ironic, I know that separating facts from opinions is a lot harder work than people thinks.
U kinda give the sense of a dickhead bro
I have an 05 300 c AWD with 425,000 km on it and still going strong in Ontario Canada. Bigger intake and headers ,tuner etc. Still a riot to drive especially in winter. Bought it off a lease with 60,000 on it. Chrysler replaced the engine in 09 with obvious updates in the MDS , as it spun a bearing. Tranny was also replaced under warranty soon after with with water getting into the dipstick. Just put a used tranny in from a another brand and it runs nicer. But miss my high stall torque converter. No regrets. It owes me nothing. Nice that Mopar supplied me with all that warranty!
Uncle Tony's Garage explained this whole issue on this 2009 to present 5.7 Hemi V8
Yeah saw his video as well, tried to compile all the opinions/theories into this video
@@MarspeedCars Ahh okay that makes sense
UT is COMPLETELY wrong, the guy is a fool.
@@snek9353 You've got that right.
@@snek9353 i agree. There is another video that pretty much debunked what UT was trying to claim.
I'd bought a Brand New 2009 Dodge Ram 1500 Sport with the HEMI and it had the HEMI tick. I was told from a recall notice it was the exhaust manifold bolts, that they would loosen or break. Took the truck in to the dealer "they fixed it" still had the tick, as for the sound of the tick it sounded like a sewing machine. Never had a miss fire on the truck and the check engine light never came on (except for a PCV code). Other than the Infamous HEMI Tick it was a good truck, never had a problem with it. I traded it in July 2022 had 143,000 miles on it and I'd always properly did the maintenance on it.
From an engineering perspective, I definitely believe the needle bearings are the direct cause.
For long term / high performance use, these needle bearings should be made from H-13 tool steel and heat treated to a minimum 52 Rk. The case hardening would prevent this issue.
As the initial engineer for all DSS drive train components, I can assure you this would eliminate the issue.
Even though the same exact style and material lifters are used trouble free in most other engines,you still think the lifter is the problem.It is a lack of lubrication,from a few design issues namely having the cam too far from the crank and not having the splash oil from it.
@@JohnDiMartino Not true. The cam and lifters get ample oil. I've torn one down after a lifter issue, the lifters and cam were saturated with oil. So it's definitely the roller bearings causing the issue.
@@JohnDiMartino Your hypothesis is flawed, all of the big 3 had roller lifter/follower issues around the same time. IMO it's quite likely they all got them from the same source with the same QC issues.
@Jr Jr Sport mode does not disable MDS.
@@7s29 Being saturated could be because the engine hadn't been idling for 10 minutes before shut down.
I have an 07 Aspen Hemi and I absolutely love the motor. I rebuilt it at 120k just because but I was looking for this issue. To my elation I found that all of the hard parts were practically brand new and I reused all of the hard parts. This is the most simplistic engine I’ve ever worked on. Plus I can tow 9000 pounds and haul 6 passengers . Big fan. But my opinion is they went with a different manufacturer or changed materials.
Gen 3 Hemi lifter needle bearings too small and too weak. Lifter roller needles were upgraded with thicker needle bearings from 2016 year production. From 2018 another supplier was introduced to supply Hemi lifters. Premature roller failure covers all Gen 3 to 2015. Original PN ended in AA. From 2016 PN changed ending in AB, current lifters end in AC. AB and AC use larger needle bearings. Your observation about needle thickness and possibly metallurgy in pre 2016 or pre 2019 roller needle revisions likely closer to truth.
I have a 2020 RAM SLT Classic 5.7L Hemi. Does mine have the new lifters with the upgraded needle bearings?
@@Thomas_M76 2020 built Hemi has heavy duty lifters fitted. Heavy duty lifters were installed circa 2016 though supplier change for some unknown reason 2018 year production. People tend to refer to revised heavy duty lifters as Hellcat Lifters. So you’re good for long term durability and reliability. Engine probably outlast truck!
@@index6738 Good little piece of mind there. I just ordered a 2022 ram with the Hemi.
@@rockcreekrockcreek6644 heavy duty lifters introduced 2016 year production.
Damn I missed the party. I have a 2015 Ram 5.7
Have an '06 jeep commander that wiped the cam and required a whole new engine. There are 5 to one '06 vs other years for sale on marketplace with the blown hemi's. Uncle Tony's garage had the best diagnosis, older engines had the camshaft closer to the crankshaft than the newer LS's and modern hemi's. GM has the same problem too. So they are starved for oil when at idle. There were round 30 videos on TH-cam that had meticulously done maintenance and had it happen with 30K,65K and other low mile vehicles. My mechanic looked at me like i was crazy when i told him that's what it was. He fixed some other stuff that still needed done, but didn't cure the shake in the engine. After a compression check and trying to take the mds solenoids out which are magnetic, they barely got one out because it had so much metal stuck to it. Uncle Tony took one apart and noticed there were score marks on the outside of the lifter, which could have only been caused by oil starvation.
I had 52k miles on my 2016 Ram when I developed the tick. Looking into things, the engine had 550hrs of idle time on it. So, the previous owner must have just let it idle all the time. After letting it run for about 10 mins when it the weather was beginning to cool down ( October in NY ) the tick would start to come around after a few mins of running. The dealer replaced all the lifters under warranty. The service manager said that the few he's seen, all the vehicles had high idle hours on them. I'm super anal about using full synthetic oil and changing it out every 3k miles. I know its excessive but to me, its cheap insurance and peace of mind.
5w-20 12 quart box,,,at 3 bucks a quart at walmart.
5k miles change, use 5w30
I bought a 2013 V8 Dodge Charger R/T with Road&Track Pkg well taken care of for $3000, It had the engine light and the previous owner said It needed a new engine.. Well, I spoke to a friend of the family who is a Mechanic for the air force and he told me that the Camshaft in a lot of the Hemi engines wears out, he recommended me some cams and I ended up buying a Stage 3, paid about 8k total for the car and I love it🥰😍🥰 It sounds like one of those engines from old cars its soo good
Aw yeah more Mopar content :D
My 2020 rt 6sp has a tick....I ain't doing didly to it
@John Stone you spelled Stellantis wrong.
I’m a newbie to the channel and to the 5.7 Hemi. I have a 2011 Ram 1500 Outdoorsman, regular cab, short bed, 2WD. So far, no ticking. It has 112K miles, presumably mostly highway. I’d really like to get caught up on the issue of the lifters failing, the MDS system (good or bad for engine life) and anything else. I just found the video and I’m glad I did. Thanks for sharing this informative video with us. I’m open to suggestions from anyone with regard to the proper care and feeding of the Gen III Hemi.
Just use 5w 30
You find this problem in diesel engines with roller lifters like the dt466egr and the isb l I have seen this failure many times and got some great photos of the carnage.
I’m actually doing this repair on my brothers 2009 ram 1500. It threw a engine light for a misfire on cylinder 3 or 5 before we had new plugs coils and injectors then we started researching and found out it was the lifters failing
Same here on my 09.
I think the 2.7L engine sludge problems was by far the worst for Chrysler.
That's because it was not developed by chrysler
@@Welcometofacsistube It was, but under forced cost cutting and R&D money being sucked to Germany by Daimler
That was back in the Damn Near Chrysler days.
Hellcat spec oil pump and a catch can is the cure to the lifter failing. It’s caused with extended idling. It simply doesn’t oil well enough to the lifters at idle.
This video is GOLD! After all of your research, what are your thoughts on the 180 thermostat to help keep the engine cooler, in-turn helping the oil keep its properties longer? Also love seeing Amsoil SS at the top of your list for good oils 👍
Changing the thermostat was an okay option on much older cars, but with the engine computers expecting the engine to reach a certain temperature before going into the main programming, monkeying with the engine temperature may affect something unintended.
I have a 2011 Ram 1500 Laramie Longhorn, which I bought used with almost 200,000 mile on it. I changed the oil within a week or two of getting it, and about a week or so after doing that (which I had done at the dealership,) it broke a valve spring, sucked the valve into the cylinder and pnched a hole in the block as well as detroying the cylinder head and of course, the piston. I had a used mototr with about 90,000 miles on it out in to replace the destroyed engine, and it has been working fine, for about 10,000 miles or so. I am super nervous about the issue with the lifters, as well as with valve springs. But, I just make sure to get regular oil changes, with synthetic oil, from the dealership, and listen as much as I can to the engine for any changes in the way it sounds... But, I love the power, and the MDS system works pretty good at improving my fuel economy on the highway. I get better mileage with it than I do with my 2001 Durange with the 4.7 in it. On the highway...
This was a very informative video! Very helpful as a new HEMI owner! I'll keep an eye out for it
I got into a fleet Ram with a 5.7 and only 30,000 miles in it today. I was surprised to hear the engine tapping/knocking when I started it on what is a next to new truck in 2023. I didn’t realize these engines are known for that.
Great, I’m about to hit 100,000 miles on my Challenger and it’s always had a tick when it starts, usually more noticeable in the cold
I’ve got a 2017 ram 5.7 it had 30.000 miles on it when I bought it 2 years ago it now has 80.000 miles... I haven’t had lifter problems so far...( knock on wood) but I did have the bolts to break off in the manifolds on the left side for no reason causing a exhaust leak... they tell me most of the steel and copper and other metals came from China and their metals suck....home AC units made 10 to 15 years ago also had a lot of China copper for the coils ...and they have hair line cracks in the tubing causing them to fail after a short period.... thanks for your videos buddy...
Can we get a vid on the neons 2.0l
Excellent information. Thank you. A buddy with a 2009 1500 4WD is experiencing this right now at 180,000 miles. You described every symptom his motor has very well. At least he knows which direction to go now and what manufacturer to go with when he buys his cam and lifters.
The eagle revision doesn't have any more issues than a regular ls with dod
AFM was a problem. Probably worse than the hemi. GM has TSBs on it.
So if I have a model with the bad engine n something happens does çhrysler cover it even if ur car is paid off
@@t-dougz6050 Who knows. GM tried to offer me money off a new product when I had AFM issue and it was still under warranty with 92k on the clock. My guess is no.
@@nokoolaid that's bs. Not surprising tho. Sad the only company I've dealt with that has done right with a wrong that caused was Hyundai with the bad 2.0t motors blowing. If a 5.7 gets rod knock or cam issues as an American/Italian now company they should rectify that instead of ppl paying out of pocket for it.
@@t-dougz6050 Actually it's Stellantis, which is Fiat Chrysler and Peugeot. So American/Italian/French. If you think Italians make bad cars(I am half Italian), just look at the French.
I have a 2012 ram 1500 regular cab with 191000km. changed the oil regularly always used mobile one full synthetic. never towed anything but my 5th cylinder failed. The lifters failed and the cam failed and scored the block lots of deep scratches in the block. I had to put a rebuilt engine back into it it. Runs like new now
Did you buy it new? Did you idle it a lot?
My 2017 with 8000 miles developed a lifter tick after a sever cold spell. This is the only time it did this. I do a lot of idling. Not too worried, I have a 100000 mile warranty.
it's a 5/100,000 warranty, up in one year.
@@alzaidi7739 year true
Had to change out my lifters and cam on my 2012 Ram 1500 a few months ago. It had 176,000 at the time. It had been ticking for quite a while from both the lifter and the broken studs on the exhaust. #5 cylinder intake lifter was the one which went bad and the #5 exhaust was starting to go. All the other lifters were just fine! Unfortunately, due to cost and availability, I went with a Chinese made replacement which although it works fine so far, the new lifters are very much noisier than the originals. I just hope they last ok.
P.S. I did all the labor myself, it took me about 3 days so it only cost me the part cost, about $700, plus a days off pay.
I also replaced a few other items while I had it apart including the broken exhaust studs.
Same here with my 09, but mine is in shop now. I went with a comp cam. Yeah, it was expensive, but my mechanic had tried Chinese cams before and didn't think much of them. I wish I could have done it myself, by the time I get her back I'll be $4k or so into it.
I have an 04 5.7 with 160k on it and it runs GRRRRRRRATE👍👍🤣
Best thing is no mds in the 2004
04 5.7 with 195k and runs great. No MDS on this model year so maybe also less chance for dropped valve seats. Only think I may need to do is swap out the exhaust manifold bolts which is not a big deal, but the original bolts seem to have gone for this long.
@@jayabraham4377 just did mine on my 04..now there's no tick when I mash the gas lol
@@jayabraham4377 cool to hear brother....I'm about to add a good old cam in it and a few other things but its nice
My 2005 Ram 1500 has over 280,000 with no issues other than a water pump and a egr valve. My 2015 Charger R/T has 48,000. 👍🏾
Might be the most comprehensive video on the subject. My 2013 pursuit developed tick and has sat while I make room in the garage. Hoping cam is ok and can get away with just lifters when I get her opened. Have to say your findings are dead on right in that 2011-13 problem range and high idle hours.
What's your idle hours on yours? I've got a 13 as well. no tick though
This is a great video. Very detailed..
Thank you 😛
I see most wear being in the middle of the engines.
Is that what you noticed?
When analyzing the rest of the engine, is the wear consistently more toward the center.
The center concerns me about heat and lack of lube?
Just thinking 😭
I saw another video where it mentions that the problem is the use of 5w20 oil .. at normal operating temperature, the oil loses its lubricating properties. Instead of using 5w20 they use 5w30 and the noise is no longer heard, the other video that I saw explains that it is a lack of more oil and also the position of the lifters prevents the oil from reaching to lubricate them.
You should stop watching videos, and stop liking your own comments.
@@starmc26 you're not going to tell me what to do .. if some comments bother you, it's your problem.. I don't have a hemi to experiment with ... I say this so that someone can experiment with their own engine.
There's likely a good point to be made regarding the use of 5W20, but not a lack of oil.
Use the recommended oil... you can void you warranty... Newer vehicles know how dirty you oil is and the viscosity you are putting in the engine...
Does this affect the 6.4 srt engines? I try to never let it idle for very long due to the oil issue and if it is idling I'll give it a small amount of throttle around 1k rpm to get the oil psi up around 60
Not really, they aren't 100% immune, no engine is. But they use thicker oil, have oil coolers, and heavier valve springs.
i've already had homeboys with ticking 6.4's (300 srt8)
maybe around 115k miles 😿
Yes this issue also affects the 6.4s as well. Like he said it's not every hemi will have the "hemi tick" but this issue has been known to be found in the 6.4s more than the 5.7s. The only Hemi not affected is the 6.2 hellcats cause they don't have MDS.
@@raymtz4016 No not really, of course it's occurred in some 6.4 even some 6.1 engines. I'm unaware of it happening in a 6.2 but I'm sure it has or will eventually. Roller lifters no matter how well made are very high stress parts. They'll fail in any poorly maintained engine.
Many 6.4 hemi engines were built during the bankruptcy years and using the AB lifters(11-13). Yes those are rather prone to failure, but from what I've seen at less of a rate than the 5.7 engines built in the same years with the same lifters.
Yes. My dad's 2011 Ram 1500 had the issue at 105,000 miles... I bought the truck from him in 2018 at 195,000mi and currently have 220,000mi on it... I occasionally hear the "tick" but I also have an exhaust leak that I need to fix.
I'm keeping this truck forever because its sentimental so I pray nothing goes wrong while I'm still in college 😅
This is a pretty damn solid video! Ive been watching this channel since way before I got my 14 R/T charger and it was probably part of why I got it 🤣. Keep it up marspeed!
2012 Gr. Cherokee 5.7. 101k miles. No tick. Running 5-30 Mobil 1. 3000 change interval.. MDS works like new.
Unrelated but funny. Running iridium spark plugs. During recall service for the fuel pump relay, the teck said the spark plugs were not compatable with the 5.7 hemi. My response “They have been comparable for the last 40,000 miles.”. Now 60k on the spark plugs. Runs great. Hoping for another 100k.
Needs to be a class action against Chrysler. I want my money for the rebuild back.
Over so,e fantasy flaw? Sure go for it
I have 2008 300c with 160k on it and it runs great, I’m going to mod the heck out of it soon. So glad I do not have a 09.
The 09 and up are trouble
Please stop this outrage of lifter issues and cam shaft aswell. Change your damn oil every 3,000 plus your filter and use very high end oil. Won't have a problem .there are countless 5.7 eagle engines with well over 100,000 miles and zero issues. I mean every other damn truck on the road is a 5.7 Ram. Lol. Stop it you guys its not that bad. Fucks sake! SMH
I used to have a 09 Ram 1500 with the 5.7 Hemi absolutely loved that truck and motor never had any issues with the motor always changed the oil with full synthetic 0w20 during the spring to fall months and 10w20 in the winter would still have it if it hadn't been a total loss due to the frame
Wait, heavier weight oil in the winter????
@@ALT3REDB3AST no 5w30 in the winter and higher first set numberd in the rest of the year but my 09 ram was running full synthetic oil before I'd gotten it. So I just kept running full synthetic oil in it when I had it to
"That thing got a hemi!?" *tick tick tick* "yeah..."
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 I just laughed so hard you are a legend
Or a Chevy LS. The LS truck engines have a similar lifter setup
2009 Ram 1500 currently at 156,160 miles. Purchased August 2014 with 45,000 miles on it. Normal daily driving so no extended idle time. Always changed oil every 6000 miles with Mobil 1 5W-20 synthetic and a Mopar oil filter. Never had problems from the engine. BTW, it appears the HEMI is being discontinued in cars and light duty trucks in favor of a twin turbo I6.
I blame you mds
Yeah a lot of people do but I’m not so sure
@@MarspeedCars it means the mds is motor damaging system
I believe it's just crappy lifter manufacturing
Mds actually boosts the oil pressure, but morons like you "delete" what you think is garbage, but you're too pee-brained to understand.
I own a 2018 Chrysler 300C. I noticed if my car sets in the garage without use. I get lifter chatter at startup that end within 30 seconds. I only have 18,400 miles and change oil at the dealership. I still have power train warranty, so I'm not wanting to Make Changes unless under warranty. I've thought about going with a performance cam and lifter set which would improve performance and should eliminate the issue you covered in the future. You mentioned no recall because it's not a safety issue, but didn't Ford have to handle a transmission issue which I believe had no safety issues attached. I believe the big V8s will be replaced by 2035. I plan on keeping my 300C because I like the power and luxury combination.
Thanks for the detailed efforts put into your video. I just wish Chrysler would step up and take a close look regarding this issue and add extended warranty to cover this issue. Chrysler knows there's an issue. They just don't want to take ownership of it. Thanks again.
your 2018 is fine, the initial chatter is the pushrod leakdown, its normal. sometimes it gets better, sometimes worse... really just depends on pushrod top wear and seating and how much pressure is on a pushrod when the ending is shut off...
i traded my 05 bright silver 300c in on my 2019 red velvet pearl 300c so far i have been pleased with both. the stance , color and performance . i hope to keep it until i no longer can drive , then i'll use it as a lawn ornament !
sits...not sets
Chrysler's response is typical of American manufacturers. This is why the Japanese have taken over so many markets.
You do of course, Absolutely, unequivocally, without a doubt, for sure, completely understand that Chrysler............ is not an American company?
I had the same thing happen on my 2009 charger SRT. Cylinder 6 developed a misfire, but it was at 183k miles. It was an amazing car up until then.
That's still damn good for a V8 and that's only problem you had. Their better than people think they are
Hell,Toyota,Honda at 180 their engines are shot on a lot of them..Cars dont last forever..You can have 2 identical cars,driven the same way,same maintenance and one will blow up 100,000 miles before the other!
Shit anything over 5 years of whatever miles I put on my car (100k let's say) on my 21 and I'm happy lol don't need my car for 300k miles
I have a 2007 5.7 charger I bought used in 2009 with 42k on it. @ 48k I replaced engine, trans and rear diff with amsoil, I am at 105k have the same amsoil in the trans and rear. I now run high grade Mobil due to the amsoil didn't like speeds over 70 and the oil loss for what ever reason was extreme! With the Mobil I have almost no drop in oil levels. If anyone could tell, explain as to why the ams blows through the engine I would appreciate it. To sum it up my car at 105 k is running like a champ!
If they changed part numbers on the lifters that would be admitting that there was a problem. That would open them up to huge liability.
You are on par with the Mopar content. I just can't get enough of it. Cheers
I have that flaw right nownin my ram whichbhas 168k on it. Took it into a shop , doing a complete cam upgrade, lifters, springs the whole thing with MDS delete. Gotta love thw aftermarket for a better solution vs FCA
Outstanding in comprehensive job on the video I’m going through this right now currently my 2012 grand Cherokee 5.7 hemi cylinder number three had a misfire. I took it to the local dealer here in Dallas. I have a bumper to bumper Mopar lifetime warranty back in 2018. They don’t offer that anymore.
mopar dragging feet right now on the repair decision. Dealer Stated they up to 48 hours to make Ridiculous. Should find out soon
We’ll see how well Hobart covers it has a warranty item.
Spellcheck Correction “Mopar”
Run the engine with the speed gear selector up to 8. When you put the car/truck in drive you can select the gear limit. This will disable the MDS so you will run the engine in 8cyl. The MDS cancelation will resets when you stop the engine. Repeat the selection for next time when you drive. I use this trick after I had to change the lifters (done free by the dealer).
2014 Jeep GC SRT 6.4 hemi has same issues. My #3 cylinder developed misfires and ticking at the same time, 122000 miles. Oil changes have been regular using the recommended Pennzoil Premium 10-40. New lifters and camshaft close to $6,000 to repair.
Yeah seems like there’s nothing you can really do about it. Happens to both people who take care of their engine and who don’t. At least it’s not catastrophic like my 5.7 hemi dropping a valve seat haha
Edit: I'd like to discuss my issues with you involving my truck. Its a 2019 ram 1500 with the 5.7 (non-etorque) rwd. I follow the oil change requirements based on the gauge in the dash and only use synthetic oil, no excessive idling. This repair and the previous are being done under warranty at a dealership. 35k miles for the first repair, currently at 44k
I need to do a video on my 2019 ram 5th gen that had the "hemi tick" last december, got fixed, and is now in the shop for ticking again 😑 last time it was lifters/cam, haven't heard the cause yet this time... its been less than 6 months!!!!
You probably own a 2019 ram classic.
@@starmc26 absolutely not. If you read my whole comment I clearly stated 5th gen which is the new body style. The classic is considered 4th gen just like it was before 2019 too
@@BatesRacing most people's "hemi tick" is just broken exhaust manifold bolts.... The real hemi tick doesn't develop for many many HOURS of Idling, When the cam and lifters don't get enough oil.
@@starmc26 i guess mine is the exception lol. The first time at 35k turned out to be the lifters, still waiting on the dealership to reach out to me this time so it could be the exhaust manifold this time. Still a problem that shouldn't be happening regardless of idle time! For the record i drive my truck normally as a daily, no excessive idle times (and I'm the first owner since new)
I've conversed with you before, there's a lot more here than you're letting on.
Great analysis and I appreciate the objective approach. NGL I was somewhat relived to hear they improved the lifters in 16. I have a 44k miles 2016 sport with the 3.92 rear end and aside from the 2 piece driveshaft replacement (which only helps the thump at launch for 2k miles) I am happy with the motor and trans. It does have MDS/VVT and I enjoy getting around 30mpg @ 45MPH. Around 20k miles I added Z max to the oil and fuel system as well as regularly run injector cleaner at high RPM as I feel it keeps things moving better.
Im writing this before watching..
1. High idle times
2. Wrong oil
3. Oil change intervals
This is what my research led to
It seems that the best is to take preventive maintenance action. Replace existing lifters with heavy duty rather than solids .
But more efficient operation.
Check valve lifter clearances with feeler gauge.Connfirm the cam condition.
A small inexpensive component like the lifters can cause major costly repairs. Like what was mentioned in this video the bad lifters lead to the cam shaft getting replaced. I'm sure lack of lubrication for the bearings inside of the lifters has something the lifters not functioning the right way. This is a flaw in which Chrysler themselves will not admit publicly. This particular problem is more than likely fixed by now for the newer vehicles. If this problem got fixed there was no announcement of it though. Depending on the scenario other components might need to be replaced such as the valve cover if there's a crack on it and the valve cover gasket.
The lifter tick/knock started on my 2010 ram at 400000kms I sold it when I noticed it. Bought a 2021 ram classic. That many kms for what I put it through was a good long life.
Hello! I pour liqy moly moligen into my 2011 Ram 1500 r/t hemi . This video is quite enough to make the sales of new hydraulic compensators successful
I have a 2017 Ram with 114k miles and it just seized the entire engine. I'm having it rebuilt. A buddy also said the oil should get changed to a low profile oil pump. He says the stock pump sits too close.to the bottom of the oil pan and plugs up with the crap on the bottom of the tank.
I've reviewed a lot of comments and wondered,
if anyone has used oil sample analysis throughout the life of the engine??
There's mention that the 6.4 isn't affected as much?
5.7 engines sell probably 40:1
I just don't think we see the 6.4 as often.
Surprised fuel octane doesn't come up .
I should get my next drain analyzed.
The 5.7 v 6.4 thing is a fair point, it's also though worth pointing out differences, like that the 6.4 uses 0W40.
I don't see how octane could be a factor in this.
@@snek9353
I'm hearing fuel is a lubricant. 6.4 uses 89 octane.
Just what I've read.
@@commoncents456 Not in any way that matters to this topic.
I bought 2009 Challenger new with lifetime power train warranty. At 168,000 miles cylinder 8 lifter failed destroying the cam. Chrysler installed a long block under warranty.
I am rebuilding a 06 hemi with all the reading and watching on line the cars that idle are experiencing low oil pressure at least that is the belief melling has made a high volume pump For 03- “08 to help with this problem
Without chrysler admiring the problem we can only speculate? They are ending the Hemi later this year or next and are going with A straight 6 cyl with two turbos?
I am also deleting the MDS. New cam and lifters. Thank you got your work.
The first one solve my problem. My car is having a slow tick so it's not in the engine. It sounds a lot like the exhaust leak demo. Thanks for the video
215,000 miles on my 2003 ram 1500 still running strong. I’ve been driving it like it’s stolen since I brought it home new. It developed an annoying tick soon after I bought it and disappeared at about 120,000 miles. 🤷♂️
So I don’t know where you got info from. I have a 2010 5.7L hemi and it has 212k miles on it. Oil changes regularly and all preventative maintenance done with no issues
In my opinion! It is a lubrication problem! Caused by people not checking and maintaining the proper the oil levels and changing their inferior non-synthetic or semi synthetic oils, at to much of a extended run time! I'm happy to see FCA upgraded lifter bearing size. Less oil sling that way.