I am here because i am trying to understand and heal from my ex (he uses DARVO generously, by the way). But. Your comment made me remember how my mother literally cut my knee open when she was trying to hit me with a balcony glass door. It bled like hell. She proceeded to cry that her heart was bleeding more. Jesus Christ.
“They never get exhausted…” So true! They live for the fight. This is where they get their energy and adrenaline rush. Then sleep like a baby because there’s no sense of remorse, ever.
OMG yes! That's exactly what would happen after our fights. I'd be devastated, and usually drained for days afterwards but he'd go from there to playing with the kids or working on the farm or just playing video games and off to bed. Meanwhile I'm laying in bed trying to figure out how I became so horrible and why my memory was so bad but the doctors kept saying it was fine.
@@aprildawnsunshine4326 emotional dysregulation; they need to dump off their negative emotions onto someone else. Also, when someone else is reacting to them (the victim is angry, sad, feeling guilty etc) there are a few things happening that helps the Narc. In some ways they feed off the negative energy. Also they look at you and now start to feel superior. Sometimes they also enjoy causing suffering and pain. Don't feed the beast.
Yes. They get their life energy from sucking the energy out of others - literally. That is why the more you can physically stay away from them, the better.
1. Denial (antagonistically denying evidence) 2. Attack (direct dismantling, indirectly threatening or exhausting you with relentless arguments, dominant and having the upper hand) 3. Reversing Victim and Offender (everyone is out to get them, they turn themselves into the victim now) You got harmed now just to hold the other person accountable
I recently worked under a boss that was a narc... he would constantly tell me to talk to him about my problems but he never addressed any of my concerns. Eventually when I left I was labelled as the worst person in the world and was threatened with every threat they could think of, as if that wasnt enough I was told that I my complaints weren't valid. So you lose no matter what you do, the only way for you to be considered a good employee is to shut up and put up with disrespect and passive aggression while also being told that you are valued. That is the text book definition of emotional abuse
If you have never experienced DARVO, you can never understand the torment of being in such a dynamic, let alone understanding all the traumas caused by the morbid tactics of narcissistic abuse across levels, especially in intimate relationships. My heart goes out to all other victims and survivors 🙏❤
absolutely. because it won't just happen once, or every now and then. it will get worse and worse until it happenes every day and even multiple times a day and it just leaves you utterly exhausted and paralised, just staring into a void crying silent tears, feeling the lonliest you have ever felt while they are RIGHT there, happily living alongside you (until you start to break free, then they will suddenly shed the most precious crocodile tears for you, saying how hard they tried to make it work).
I think there's a final step that wasn't accounted for, when, once exhausted all other steps of the DARVO and you still don't buy it, they dismiss the whole thing like "I'm too tired now to continue talking, I've had enough" and just walk off. And then accuse you of torturing them if you keep asking for answers.
@@sujammaz Your description is spot on, and I'm right there with you. I'm at the multiple times a day point and am losing it. I am looking for a way out before my body gives out for good. Her tears will come when I leave, but they won't be for me.
@@darkcolouredglasses that, and also doing the hollow gracious "i AM right but i'll SAY i'm wrong (in a deliberately fake and mocking way), to prove that i am the better person and/or just don't really care" gesture.
I struggle with forgiving myself for being so DAMN gullible and allowing myself to be used!!! Please do a video about self-forgiveness. My co-dependency issues were in full bloom. I am so mad at myself for not self-protecting and having better boundaries.
Be gentle with yoursef! It's not your fault you fell for the lovebombing. It feels nice, it feeds human needs. Until it doesn't. But because healthy people communicate their own perspectives in the hope to being met there and if not at least finding a partner to find a consensus, that's where we struggle. It's nothig to do with us, though! You are never at fault for being abused. They are! So you "only" need to let go and heal. By looking in yourself what you could have done differentoy, you arw being stuck. I think she did a video on that topic already
They won’t honestly communicate ever their lies start from the beginning I still have a hard time with this anomaly why waste time lying and gaslighting it doesn’t profit anyone. They are so insistent to pay for everything even when you say I can take care of myself everything is a mirroring competition it’s sick bad behavior, exhausting, and very triggering. We want to connect to have friends but it seems not on a genuine or transparent way. One thing I learned about myself out of self preservation is to not over share anymore! Take time!
I stood up for myself when my narc was being incredibly disrespectful and belligerent. He took offense to that and gave me the silent treatment for several days, then tried to act like nothing happened. When I told him I expected an apology for how he acted he denied he did it, then said I was disrespectful to him. It’s remarkable how predictable this style of conflict is for them.
Very similar experience here in a past, thankfully short-lived relationship. Three nights of silent treatment for asking to go home after a long weekend of extreme sports where I was mostly the assistant supporting his ‘training’. I was exhausted and needed rest, and mid afternoon on the third day voiced that I wanted to sit the next round out. A five hour silent drive home and four days of silence later, he emerged from his room and when I asked if he was ok he seemed totally fine. I had been in agony, lonely and afraid that I had crossed some terrible line in his books. He denied there had been any issue or silence. Incredulous, I described his closed door and silence since the previous week. I had been so worried about him, and us, had felt his anger. Where had he gone etc,,, His answer was that he “wouldn’t have to act like that if I didnt behave the way I did.” I was shocked. It was one of several increasingly dangerous signs that prompted the end. Thankfully I had a therapist at the time who saw the DV danger and helped me make a quick and safe exit in case he turned violent. I now understand how people get stuck and completely lost inside controlling relationships.
Almost 3 years ago I wrote a (too polite) email confronting my mother's husband after he choked and slammed my brother up against a wall. To this day the only thing that gets brought up in a negative light is my "horrible hurtful email". Videos like this help me to truly see that I am not alone, I am not crazy, and I ABSOLUTELY made the right decision in going no contact with the narcs and enablers in my life. Thank you Dr. Ramani 🖤
Good for you for doing what you thought was right the right thing while maintaining your dignity. What a shame they turned on you too. I hope your brother is able to follow your example. So glad you made it out! 💪
Wow. You know that email wasn’t horrible, right? This is the definition of gaslighting. Do you have to talk to them? Maybe you do. Unfortunately extricating yourself from family isn’t always possible. Stand your ground though.
@@precisionfrequency My email was too nice! I called him out on his bad behavior and I clearly stated my boundaries. I mentioned my trust issues which I regret cause he weaponized that bit a whole lot. And now I'm not in contact with him or my mother. She sadly went out of her way to choose a side and just be horrible to me. Its been really rough...I'm honestly in therapy now cause of all this.
Dr. Ramani you got me with " you'd have more luck teaching your cat to do the dishes". Perfect! 10 years post divorce from my 40 year marriage to a Narcissist galore, I can now clearly see and sometimes even chuckle at the futility I was faced with in every situation with this man. The sad part was I knew it, but just put up with it until I got my children raised and mostly on their own. Sadly for me I was just too old and not willing to take a chance with someone else. I had lost too much already. Alone by choice, lonely at times, but happy to be my own person and no longer dealing with conflict and blame about anything. 🤗💜 Thanks Dr. Ramani for the clarity!
They apply this strategy: 1. The best defense is a good offense 2. Fix the blame not the problem When the healthy behavior is the other way around ("Fix the problem not the blame ".)
This should 1000% be taught in schools at a basic high school level. Think of all the pain it could save empaths and also hopefully shed light on budding narcissists at an early age maybe even early enough to reverse the behavior through accountability and self-awareness
I'm not into this labeling of people, dividing up the world into narcs and 'empaths'. Which... I'm skeptical about. I'd much rather talk about behaviour.
This woman’s brain is operating on a whole other galactic level of insight, and she is so stinking funny!!! “You have a better shot a teaching a cat to do the dishes than changing a narcissist”… ahhh how we love you Dr. Ramani 😂❤❤
Narcissists can leave you baffled and spinning in circles for years, but once you fully recognize thier patterns and motives, they become as predictable as clockwork and easily identified for the ugly souls they really are, making it that much easier to walk away.
so true, and as far as i know, that is the second to last stage in thinking about them. The last stage is true pity for their disability, gratitude you're not like that, but no hesitation to protect yourself from them - but without anger. Just like you wouldn't be angry at somebody with involuntary movement who hit you by mistake, but you would prevent the next hit by staying out of reach of their arms. I'm not at that last stage yet.
My ex-fianceé had this reaction *every* time I brought an issue to the table. I tailored my approach to be so non-cofrontational, so soft and timid...and then this is the reaction I got *every* *time!* For fourteen years! I thought we were working things throughout the years. Turns out: at 36, he was stuck with the same emotional maturity we both had when we got together. At 21...even then I felt like he argued like a 13yo. I would reach the peak of frustration and say that he argued like a child...I hoped that would wake him up, but he never changed his behavior. Now he's 36 and argues like a pubescent teenager...The writing was on the wall way back then. I really think my cat could do the dishes better than this jackass can cope. You have made me realize so much, Dr. Romani. Thank you for the validation. For my sanity...I really needed that. 🙏
@@Idontwantcookies I'm sorry to hear that. I learned that I was with a man that didn't want to be a parter in a relationship, he was never going to hear my side of things, and the worst part: he was never going to change. I wish the best for you. Whether that's counseling and growth in your relationship, or future with someone else. Best of luck.
I was in a serious relationship with a man who did the exact same. He told me that I needed to be more gentle with him, because after I found out he omitted his secret mortgage during out budget conversation, I asked him "what else is there?" He told me that we needed to have a serious conversation, and acted so sweet about it. We grabbed dinner before, which was a nice time. We then went back to his apartment, sat down to talk. He reached out, patted my hand, and pronounced with a smile, "I won't tolerate your behavior of doubting me." What else was there? Not only did he have a secret mortgage, but he had two secret dependents, and they had their own debts that he was paying off. He knew I was close to finding out the truth and tried to bully me into trusting him. Your compassion and forgiveness will never be great enough for a person who needs you to have no self-respect.
DARVO. Denial attack reverse victim offender. Just happened to me. Called the ambulance because she was threatening to self harm and boom - DARVO - now I am off to court to defend a protection order. She played the police officer like a banjo. This video is so synchronistic. I love you Dr Ramani. 💜🇦🇺
@@javiervidal366 can you believe she is in the final stages of progressive multiple sclerosis with huge brain damage and they aren't even going to take her licence to drive off of her.
Called cops after the narc smashed my laptop in my face, lip bleeding, computer ruined. Watched DARVO happen. Cops agreed I must be nuts since bleed wasn't big, ignored my computer loss, and warned me to stay away from my attacker and not aggravate him. So despite other assaults before it ended i never called cops again, why bother!
@@joywebster2678 OMG that's horrific. I hope you can heal and get protection from him. Document everything and a restraining order if you can. Stay safe
“ Holding the narcissist accountable is as futile as teaching a cat to do the dishes.”😂 I cannot express how grateful I am for Dr. Ramani & these videos & comments. It lessens the pain because we realize we aren’t hallucinating or crazy… & actually, we see so clearly that we can cut the poisonous people off at the turn, that we must break all those joy stunting patterns. I may always be a little hyper vigilant & I may continue to feel triggered but these informative videos give me a safety net that always leads me back to healing myself with self- care & love. So grateful. ❤
That is so familiar. My narcissist spouse will poke, poke, and poke to start an argument and then immediately pull out the phone to record video as soon as I even start to speak to defend myself.
I'm not the only one experiencing this kind of DARVO betrayal. This is a THING. It relieves the 'crazy' feeling. So grateful to Dr. Ramani and her shedding light on all of this. Love the comparison of futility - teaching your cat to do the dishes!
If only the cat would do the dishes .ive been vommiting for four solid days ..and the poor neighbor who I adore has Alzheimer's told the neighbor that I have mental health issues. Its not directly menacing I. Just afraid after reading about the old senior who disemboweled his wife Thanksgiving day in mexico
WHAT IS IN THE DARK ALWAYS GETS EXPOSED IN DA LIGHT...ESPECIALLYTHE FUCHED UP NARCISSISTIC ABUSERS,PREDATORS, LIARS,THIEVES, CON-ARTISTS, ETC...HAPPY MONDAY.. GOD ,I LOVE MY MOMMA RAMANI! SHE'STHE BEST GUARDIAN ANGEL GOD COULD OF SENT ME... TE AMO HAPPY HOLIDAYS MOMMA. RAMANI...!🎵🎶🎼🎶🎵 I WISH YOU A MERRY CHRISTMAS, 🎵🎶🎼🎼🎶I WISH YOU A MERRY CHRISTMAS,🎵🎶🎼 I WISH YOU A MERRY CHRISTMAS, & A HAPPY NEW YEAR!THOUGHT I'D SING YOU A SONG..HAPPY MONDAY LOVE ,YOUR FAVORITE SEXY VOICED DJS,AND VJS,VLOGGERS, BLOGGERS,PODCASTERS, SOCIAL MEDIA EXPERTS ,& TH-camRS..XOXO DECEMBER 5,2022😇🎶🎶😎🎵🎶🎶🎵😎😎😍😘😘😇🎧🎶🎵😎🎵🎶🎼😇🙏😇😇🙏
How is this behavior pattern so consistent across all narcissistic people? I’m blown away how accurate this is and how weird it is that it’s across ALL of them. So weird. It’s like do they attend secret DARVO meetings or something to sync up behavior patterns? How? Lol I laugh so I don’t cry here. Thanks once again Dr R for one more invaluable piece of intel to survive these folks!
Mine learned it from his two narcissistic parents. His father was the worst. Of course the parents divorced early in the marriage…too much competition to outplay the other. Its like they took pride in sharing this family tradition of behavior with their offspring.
I once heard it was like a large Narcissistic playbook that they all share. Almost always the same tactics. But once you know the games they play, you can learn not to play.
"You would have more luck trying to teach your cat how to do the dishes" absolutely love this, made me laugh so hard! Keep up the great work, you're an excellent teacher.
This woman is genuine. I have never gotten tired of listening to her unique wisdom and advise. I have been listening to her for hours on end. She saved me from the bottomless pit i was in. Thank you Dr.
I once worked for a narcissist. She caused chaos for everyone around her. Some of her employees lasted a week. I made it a year and a half before I was fired. It was actually a great relief.
Yep. When I’ve tried to hold them accountable they throw temper tantrums and somehow turn it on me and I am left feeling super upset and bad like I did something wrong. So tired of it all. Thanks for the info to know it’s not just me. ❤
Many thanks for being luminous, Dr. Ramani! Many times when I try to hold a nacissist accountable, they refuse to discuss the content, complaining endlessly that the problem is the way I said it. There is no right way to say anything that the narcissist does not want to hear.
The fact that Dr Ramani has a cat, and it was on camera during this video, made the metaphor of "as futile as teaching how to was dishes to a cat" even more relatable, true and memorable!
I'm currently dealing with serious health concerns from being married to the npd husband who constantly does this to me. Just tried getting him to follow through on some behavior changes he future faked on...wow! Instant Jekyll and Hyde rage. Thank you for your clear, compassionate help with this insidious, exhausting nightmare I'm in.
me too! I recently found some writing of his where he was writing about his own passive aggressiveness and he literally said that he enjoys watching people get upset when he says that he'll do something but does the opposite. that is sadism and directly from the horse's mouth (okay jackasses mouth)
I used to record all conversations with my phone, wound up sharing them with the people she told i was bad, harmful,was “abusive” felt good to clear my name with most of the people who had heard all these lies about me
@@Rejectingmodernity01 I love Massachusetts for a million reasons, but their wiretap laws are way out of line. They are trying to change that, but in the meantime we can’t document abusers in that way.
I had an epiphany maybe I'm a day late and a dollar short but I realized at the core of the narcissist everything they do is because they can't be wrong they have to be right about everything and anything to the death even.
They are projecting a perfect image of themselves to the world. They know it's fake deep down. But the cannot admit that to anyone. Their internal sense of worth revolves around the perfect image. Hence anyone who attacks that image get denial, and attack. Then reverse victim and offender.
This is so useful. After living with narcissistic parents and then a narcissistic spouse, it is too easy to see narcissism in everyone and everything. Being able to use a recognized pattern to see if it is real behavior or just a perception based on a trauma response is very very helpful.
@mariventris_usaI understand why you might be going through this, but remember...love requires compromise. Try not to pick guys apart to the point of isolating yourself. That would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Don't deny yourself the opportunity to find happiness with someone who's less than perfect. ❤
@@scribblydoodle2924lol. I've screen shotted text messages and sent them back, months, years later...Oh, you didn't say that???? BOOM! LOL it's sad that I feel like I need to record any of my mother's conversations or wear a body cam everytime I go around her.
This is spot on. I decided to confront my mom about her showing a total lack of interest/involvement in my life for the last 20 or so years, and when I did so, all hell broke loose. My aunt and cousin tried to stop me from doing it but I didn't listen to them. I confronted my mom in front of the whole family and she acted surprised, and claimed that I was "always invited" for dinner with her (she never once reached out, and never once has been to my apartment 15 min away...). Then her brother (my uncle) stepped in and claimed that it's a "two way street" so blaming me for my mom's lack of interest or involvement. All the while, my mom barely looked up from her arts and crafts project she was working on. A few months passed with no contact, and then she sent me a facebook message saying "happy birthday!" As if nothing happened. I immediately blocked her. They are total lunatics
Well, it is a two way street. If she left you alone and not persecuting you after you were grown up it might have been she had her problems as we all have.
@@Carmen_Lapadat Are you being deliberately obtruse or are you just projecting? Who's talking about persecution?! Her mother ignored her and never once visited her in 15 years!
I can't even say how much time I spent in DARVO arguments. I feel like it stole big chunk of my life, so exhausting. For such a long time I was always trying to see what I did wrong (in RVO phase), apologizing for my part and working hard on doing better next time. But it was never appreciated or even noticed and nothing changed. It took years and years until I finally started to see through it a bit, still get caught defending myself vigorously sometimes instead of saying no to this. It is like you always have to be ready to not buy their bs, which is exhausting as well, it is hard to just let go and relax, because you think everything is fine, you boundaries are down and then it comes and you are spiraling again, feeling completely worthless and not really sure what is happening or how we get to that point..
I remember last year at my job I had a younger coworker do something inappropriate to me and I tried to speak to her about it in private and say I didn't appreciate it. As adults. This girl had a meltdown and made a scene, started lying about what happened, and drew other people into it. When I refused to back down, she threw her hands in the air and stormed off. Then everyone else started thinking that I was this bitter, older woman bullying this innocent, charismatic really nice girl that everybody loved. That girl played the victim so well, refused to talk to me when we were working together, and just made my shifts miserable with her sulking and silent treatment. Ha. But it was MY fault. Not hers for doing what she did. I knew right then and there she was a narc and not to be trusted. I've been DARVO'd all my life by my family and my ex-husband. Seeing this coworker blatantly do it surprised me, but at least this time I had the knowledge and awareness to know what it was and not to let it affect me, as I would have in the past. Thanks, Dr Ramani.
I've experienced similar treatment in the work place, and it would feel like I was the only one to be treated in such a manner, as though the narc could sense that I come from an abused background and they try and test me. Perhaps there is something i it; maybe I give off a vibe they pick up on like a shark and blood.
“Pernicious” is the word. Abuse so subtle you feel silly at times, but it’s constant and mentally destabilizing. I’m always teetering on the edge of wanting to learn more and feel validated in my experiences by watching these videos…and avoiding this truly invaluable-yet triggering-information.
Wow , so that’s it! When I confronted my husband about his 16 yr affair, he couldn’t deny he knew it, so plan b ,minimise, it was only once a month , then become the victim, I was so cold and unloving the poor man had no choice , top it off by shifting to hero mode by claiming he engaged with the affair to enable him to stay married for the sake of our family . By the end of this exchange I was left thinking I should send a thank you note to his affair partner for services to humanity. Thank you Dr Ramani
Man she is a GOD SEND. 😂 For all of you brothers and sisters out there…It’s not you it’s them! After soo many years of being ganged up on by a mother and sister, I stopped letting them make me feel bad about myself and I stopped making myself look foolish looking like a cat or dog chasing its own tail. I was taking blame and trying to hard with them…wearing myself out. Tip: being logical with these people isn’t wise. But being wise, takes you a long way. 🧐🤗 God gave you wisdom for a reason and now is the time to apply it. Protect your heart and your mind. ❤
I’d rather a narcissist disappear than stick around. I truly understand the pain and aftermath and having children. Mine disappeared. It was the best thing he did for all of us.
@@Pink_143_6 Escaping narcissism is probably one of the truer meanings..the grass really is greener on the other side. It may not be pretty with lots to tend...but it is more peaceful and sane. Blessings to you and your lil ones 🙏
You are so right, I confronted him about his cheating, by the time he finished ranting and raving, I felt as if I was overreacting and I was to blame, clever, dangerous people. I'm no contact, he's filed for divorce, and has now admitted to being in a new relationship, months of lying and letting my kids down and turning his phone off. My older kids are disgusted with him, but he blames our toxic marriage for his behaviour and he plays victim. Luckily my kids can see right through his lies and deceit, he's betrayed us all
My mother was a psychopathic narcissist and she mastered this darvo to an extreme art. When I found myself with a narc boyfriend some years later I just agreed with all he said, insisted the relationship was indeed over as he threatened me, and walked away. I must one day write this up as part of my memoir catalogues on surviving narcissists lol. I did the one on my mother already. Once you get it you break free though. I. Now incredibly happily married to a very same kind gentle sexy man for 25 yrs and as we start to go into old age together, I am so grateful for all the things and people that put me here in this present time. Who knows where I might be, but all the things that led to this, thankyou, wouldn't wish it on anyone, so glad I had the experience though.
I can see why you haven't brought this up. I used to tutor people back in the mid 1980s in psychology and psychiatry (I never took the courses myself though) and I haven't heard this term in a long time. Thank you for bringing this back again as it does help understand the framework involved. Denial - Attack - Reverse Victim and Offender. It is a process and all processes are learned behaviors. DARVO helps explain 'what comes next' with a toxic person and in the process maybe learn to 'head them off at the pass' before they get there. Nothing more scarier to a narcissist than someone knowing their next move as the narcissist is supposed to know it all not anyone else.
Darvo is what made me search about this type of behaviour and found out about narcissism. It was so confusing that someone would outright deny their misconducts even when the evidence was presented publicly. Everyone could see yet they darvo it.
IMO, they DARVO it because it usually works! Most people believe the narcissist most of the time. The audience could be staring at proof the narc is wrong, yet they'll still swallow the DARVO performance hook, line, and sinker.
My question is this: Why do people always believe the narcissist? Third parties/audience could have proof the narc is lying yet they will stillbelieve the narc and claim the victim is lying.
@@ak5659 In my case most people know how the narcs are and based on my observation there are 4 types of people. 1. The clueless ones, they couldn't decide who's right or wrong cause they're dumb and don't have analytical thinking skills and they don't care as long as it doesn't happen to them. 2. The people who know that the narcississts are lying but they're scared of the narcs and decide to go along with them. 3. The people who know the truth but are scared of the narcs and choose to stay away so as not to get involved in the situation at all. 4. The people who know the truth and helped me by giving info behind the narcs' back but wouldn't wanna be involved because they were their victims too.
@@ak5659 why do they believe the Narc? Two reasons 1) the Narc has been lovebombing and flattering them too! Just like they used to do to you! Remember when used to believe they were amazing and godlike? They STILL believe it! 2) the smear campaign. The Narc has been smearing you since day 1! Even during the idealisation phase, the Narc was smearing you behind your back. Saying you were crazy and weird and that you need help etc etc. Why? They always need to do a preemptive strike because they know one day you might expose them!
One narcissistic person I know cries and sobs heavily during the final “reversal of victim and offender” phase. Often adds in feelings of not being “appreciated” and “I do so much for you” etc. you’re right, it’s definitely the most confusing and painful part.
“You would be better teaching your cat to do the dishes”!! OMG, that made me laugh out loud.😂Too bad it is so very true. After decades of being gaslighted in this fashion I finally stopped defending myself. I remember the one time this happened yet again, I sat there in silence. Walked away. And, started planning my escape.
My ex was a very passive narcissist. He was not a "bad" or evil person. He was very damaged, deeply traumatized by his childhood, and he was never able to properly mature emotionally. He could not deal with being held accountable for anything. But his "attack" would be to just shut down. He never once lashed out at me, ever. Instead, he would invalidate my concerns by giving me the silent treatment, by refusing to engage with me, or by acting like he had NO idea what I was talking about, and whatever was wrong was just a total and complete shock to him. This was incredibly effective because it left me with nowhere to go. How can you engage someone who acts like they don't KNOW that a problem exists? It made me look like I was overly emotional and reactive, so any further pressing to get him to talk or react, just made ME look MORE emotional and overreactive. It worked. I stopped trying. I left him alone. There was no point in trying to talk to him.
That was my ex.. Passive covert narcissist (very likely), who I met when I was 19 and he was 36.. took 6 yrs years to realize and 5 to finally leave him.. only to run right into a the worst relationship I ever had with a malignant violent narcissist.. thank God I had the relationship with the first one and learned about narcissism then, bc I wouldve never been able to survive the most recent if I hadn't.. the accusations he would lob at me when I would try to express myself and at the most random times would bring the best of them to their knees.. but still I found a way to rise above and detach.. but that darvo shid cuts deep.. frfr
Oh my goodness thank you for sharing. I've been in same boat with my husband and it's been such an exhausting mind F, especially with how he is able to get away with EVERYTHING and deceive everyone else still as such an innocent and victim somehow! I've buckled from so many things but often this empathy and sympathy (on top of guilt, shame, and confusion) for how screwed up he is, how unaware he seems no matter how much "we" (meaning I) had tried to talk about different issues, his messed up childhood, trauma, and family. He is ultimately still choosing daily to not think about or handle a thing for himself and ignore everything lying and denying to even himself, maybe the most, on a seriously deep, bizarre level that I don't think I could ever learn to fully wrap my head around. He seems like a big child, not to be mean, but a toddler and I've been his wife, partner, lover, mother, the husband, the parent, the caregiver, and everything for all our families for 8 years now because if I didn't fill all the roles everything went to crap, nothing got done, and everyone is hurt or mad, and I was the scapegoat and one to blame alone in this alternate reality of my life surrounded by flying monkeys. It wasn't till this past year or so that I got closer with a friend and was sharing details of my relationship and life more, like I did here and there the whole time with my parents and sometimes my mother in law who said nothing but I had to accept it, work harder, be less this or that and do more this and that, until this friend told me "uuuhh that's not good, that's wrong, you don't deserve that, you need to get away from that, and can't do a thing to change these dynamics myself because it was the unwilling to change, comprise, awful to me husband of mine being severely messed up." Wow, what some true honesty, care, consideration, and knowledge can do for someone! What Dr. Romani does is so life changing too and giving, caring, and amazing to us victims and survivors. I love that the viewers feel safe to share their experiences to give light, hope, and some sanity back to each other! Hoping the best for you all! Stay strong!!!
That sounds like a dismissive avoidant to me. They're conflict avoidant, emotionally illiterate and often shut down when confronted with emotionally challenging situations. But they withdraw from conflict, they do not seek it. Unlike narcissists they are drained by social interactions. They shut down and stonewall not to get a reaction and drive their partners mad but because they cannot cope and need a reboot.
❤️ I was at a family event recently and thankfully realized what #1 head narc was doing to me and refused to take the bait. Thanks to you Dr. Ramani I saw it coming.
I heard this term for the first time yesterday, and it knocked the air out of me. Why is this not known to everybody? All the years of abuse I suffered at the hands of my husband, this is the exact pattern that he has been following. For instance, when my babies were small, we were attending my husband's brother's wedding. My baby girl had a cold, and the doctor had prescribed antibiotics. The syrup bottle contained the exact dosage, and the doctor had cautioned us not to miss any dose. But the baby wouldn't take the medicine voluntarily, and I needed my husband's assistance to administer the syrup. For me, I need to get work out of the way to be able to then relax and enjoy anything. For my husband, on the other hand, the work is just not a priority - especially if it concerns the family. So early in the morning we woke up to get ready for the special day. I asked my husband to help me administer the dosage to the baby so that I could then relax and focus on getting ready for the wedding. He was actually so good at such tasks, that it took him only a second, whereas I would struggle and end up not succeeding - so I really needed him to help. He just said he would help after an hour. So I went to him again after and hour, and again he said, after an hour. And we ended up in the car, on the way to the venue, and I was still requesting him to help me give the medicine to the baby. Each time I asked, it irritated him. In the car, he got really hostile, and took the syrup. The baby resisted, and then he just flung the syrup out of the window of the car. Stunned, I asked why he did that - the bottle had the exact dosage for 3 days, and we were now one dose less, and the baby had still not been given the medicine. To this, he scowled very menacingly, and started yelling at me. He said that I was making it a point to spoil a very special day and why was I such a problem! This brought tears to my eyes, and then he started saying how I was such a negative person and so on. Even his brother looked at me with disgust. We reached the venue, and I struggled to get my composure back, and my husband again expressed anger at how the wedding was starting on such an inauspicious note because of me and my antics.
I have a Narcissistic Mother-in-Law and I was feeling that same way. I felt like a coward because she grabbed me and wouldn’t let go and scream raged at me (shudder - I saw how sick she is by the look in her eyes- rage mingled with delight) and I scooped up my toddler and ran out the door. II was telling my husband, “I’m scared of this 70 year old 5ft tall woman. How can I be such a coward?” He said, “ You’re not a coward for being gentle. It’s a strength.” I believe choosing gentleness is a strength. Too many people are bitter and jaded. We just have to learn how to set boundaries. We won’t be able to avoid all negativity from happening to us, we learn boundaries as we go. For me I embrace my spirituality. My relationship with God fills me with hope that I am becoming who he wants me to be. We go through these experiences so that we can increase our compassion and empathy and lift others who are hurting. Narcissistic people put their energy into controlling and manipulating others. Healthy people put their energy into goals, creating happy homes, and doing good. Of course they’re going to sneak in a blind spot. They look for them! But Narcissists are miserable and I get to be happy…. as soon as I can stop ruminating. But that just takes time and patience with myself.
I take it you have met my X sisters. Exactly how they respond. I have absolutely no contact with them. It is one blessing of being single, retired and live on my own. By some people's standards I would probably be looked at as being poor, but they have no idea how blessed I am in other ways. I get by and am thankful, but now in my late sixties to be away from these toxic people is a blessing. I gradually adjusted over time to being without the functional family I hoped and waited for. Now I understand some things about personality disorders and I realize I can't change the weather in Chicago and I can't change another person. I know it might look like holding a grudge or having unforgiveness, etc. I don't care. It's prevention. It's time to be healthy. It's time to be happy. It's time for me to be able to be my best self. Fantastic video!!!
I’ve been tempted to address this behaviour recently but opting for grey rock. Any confrontation is a waste of breath (30 years of this crap tells me that) 😂
grey rocking.. it doesnt work too well for me. i did it a lot and now i actually have a hard time showing emotions to anyone. it became a real habit. it just made the narc more aggressive because she wanted me to feed her my emotions.
Thank you, Dr. Ramani. This is eye-opening. This explains how he constantly walks all over me with little regard or consideration for my feelings or welfare, yet, I'm the monster.
DARVO: I’ve had too many experiences of this, causing me great suffering since childhood. Thank you for for sharing this; it resonates with my experience.
I just wish I understood this years ago. Maybe I wouldn't have lost my self confidence and live in fear and confusion. Your explanation of the DARVO acronym is so spot on to daily life with a narcissist. I AM that spouse being blamed for his affairs and cheating, being accused of making him work a stressful job and being told I'm the problem and I never validated him enough. I'm so thankful to you for helping me understand that I'm not the problem. It's still painful, though. All those years of trying and trying to get it right, while he was off cheating on me (which I only learned recently during our separation) and pretending to play rhe role of a good dad and husband. Years and years wasted, is how it feels. I wish I could show your video to everyone I know and say "this is my truth. This is what 24 plus years of marriage to my (soon to be) ex was really like."
I thought I was reading my own post! Married in 98 after 8 years of dating, the most wonderful man I thought was the love of my life, then the weekend we got married, his mask slipped, but I sallied-forth thinking I was being unreasonable. I earned more, yet he controlled the money, which he made me believe made him feel less emasculated! My mom tried to warn me, but by then, we had a son, and having grown up without a father myself, I did not want to put my son through it. Unfortunately, it back-fired bc my son learned his father's gaslighting and dysfunctional relationship with me. My husband was so checked out as a father that I truly could have (and should have) raised my son as a single mom. I think we need to learn to forgive ourselves, we did the best we could whole being blind.
@@milliesecond102 I'm so sorry for the pain and harm you endured. I can relate to grief over our children being impacted by the narcissistic spouse. We had 3 children. My oldest was the scapegoat and was badly abused emotionally by his dad. So they are pretty much estranged and yet my son displays the same antagonistic traits - and I'm the one left on the dealing with it. My middle child, who I grieve everyday, died at 16 from a car accident. And my youngest is the sweetest, most empathetic teenager ever. I still feel like Im on the outside watching someone else's life unravel. But we certainly need to give ourselves grace and allow the space and time to heal.
You are not alone; 23 years of marriage for me and on the road to a divorce. The healing path is not linear, it is a grief like no other but the journey to finding freedom from the trauma of narcissistic abuse is worth every bump in the road. You can do this💕
sounds like my husband...after 25 yrs I basically breathe. Thats it. Too painful too much & hard to articulate how toxic..life altering/damaging it is. And spills onto the kids for I'll never forgive myself for
If Everyone Held The Narcissists Accountable They Would Be Forced To Deal With Their Own Problems Instead The Narcissists Dumps Them On Everyone Else. It Is A waste Of Time Calling Out A Narcissists
Demi, your comment is the most logical I’ve read. If people would only set boundaries against them, instead of catering to them and further enabling them. Like breaking a horse.
When you call them out on their bad behavior they will blame shift and it's a never ending battle,walk away if possible and completely leave them alone 👍 Dr RAMANI thanks for the video 🦋🙏
@@SirenASMR_ Yep and they are all over TH-cam. Tell the truth about almost anything that goes against the mainstream and you will get endless attacks from these snakes.
Spot on. DARVO indeed! Holding a narcissistic/antagonistic person accountable is futile. It leads to unnecessary drama, chaos and confusion. The narc is an expert in flipping the script and would turn us into offenders in just a matter of few minutes. With these self-centred attention seeking devious individuals, damage and hurt are guaranteed. Thank you very much for sharing this valuable information, Dr. Ramani. 🌷🙏🏻
I didn’t mention this but my drunk raging daughter raged on me. Blamed it on me… THEN called the cops on me and gave ME A RESTRAINING ORDER! So help me GOD! Everyone in my WHOLE family is believing her prevailing false narrative. 😭🤯
I tried to hold my therapist accountable and he did exactly this. All I was able to think while experiencing darvo was how disgusted I was by his gaslighting and manipulative behaviour. I am done, good bye therapist 👋
DARVO from an “energy healer” who called in the past & future lifetimes shaming, grey rock was the only thing that worked to get that former friend out of my life.
I avoid therapists with the exception of people like Dr. R and Dr. Carter. They are trained plantation overseers for their corporate narc masters, in my opinion.
I was sitting alone in my living room, clappig my hands at this succinct breakdown...this is the validation I never knew I needed. The latest narc I had to deal with was my BF's mom, and I shut her down with composure and non-contact. She's been on a campaign which might still be alive and well, but as for me, I moved on. She's not my first narc and I learnt a lot about myself and how I tend to play right into their games because of my need to belong. To heal I had to admit my part in the betrayal, my willingness to become an emotional ragdoll in the first place.
Thank you for this video! This is a perfect description of my ex-husband. I hope no one EVER has to experience a hard-core narcissist's DARVO through a divorce. . . especially with teenage daughters. As nightmare-ish as this was to go through, it was necessary for the children. I STILL keep my disappointments to myself to this day because I have YET to express my needs without having the other person pull a "DARVO" . . . Nothing gets resolved and I end up being the offender. 🙄
This has been my life for the last 2 years, thank you so much, in 5 minutes you just made me realize I'm not going crazy. I've walked away in the last week and have been struggling with guilt, not anymore.
Guilt and shame is very common with narcissist abuse. Recovery is absolutely necessary. Awareness of narcissistic abuse is needed. It’s not you. I promise you that 💞
Thank you so much for all of your hard work and education Dr Ramani. 4 years ago I could not talk my way out of when I was being gas lit with the DARVO technique that they use. I didn't understand it for the decades prior to that either, and wasted so much time trying to over explain, over justify, get in unnecessary arguments, or over defend myself for my needs n my boundaries. Today I find that simple one-worded answers, or very brief statements spoken in repetition work splendidly against the DARVO. Because as you said defending against DARVO is futile. "You'd have more luck teaching a cat how to do dishes" Thanks again Dr Ramani. PS. LOVE ur podcasts n ur guests are awesome. Congrats w the new venture.
My cousin is a covert narc. We're the same age, grew up together (34 years) . I'm reminded of the narcissists prayer - That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it. I experienced this so many times. And always "we never fight, what's wrong with you?" to make me the problem when I had enough of his nonsense. Always stealing £3-5 if we were in a group and ordering food. Taking over plans if anyone else wanted to go out but he "couldn't afford it" (but can always 'afford' his own events). Playing the victim in any confrontation. Redirection. Guilt trips, passive aggression, aggressively creating a different public image after any confrontation. I would argue with partners to avoid confronting him, because I knew these things would never stop, but I didn't want to lose him, and I'd rather just tolerate them than tolerate them AND get gaslit (those were the only 2 realistic options). I feel so much better after going no contact. Even started messaging people to insinuate I am having a mental breakdown since then. I've learned a lot from these vids. Just need to work on forgiveness now. Thank you!
I made the mistake of calling my narc wife out when we we apple picking with the whole family. She started being very verbally abusive in front of everyone and it was very embarrassing so I told her how I felt, and I let the word narcissist slip out of my mouth. She proceeded to not only go through the DARVO method, be completely mentally annihilated me right in front of my children and everyone even all the way home. When you call them out on their bad behavior, be ready for an all-out mental ASSAULT. It is not even close to worth it, don't do it!
Thank you for reminding me of DARVO and putting it in this context. I have been spinning with a family member who absolutely ignores the facts and attacks… this sealed my suspicion.
This. To a tee! I find it fascinating how narcissists seem to play out the same behaviours as each other, even if they are from different walks of life, cultures, genders. Those close to me certainly did. It's like the same circuits have gone wrong, and so the same negative things play out time after time.
Dr. Robert Hare did X rays on psychopaths brains and they have a tiny reptilian amygdala whereas normal empathic people have a large heart shaped one. This is where the conscience is located. I believe narcissists also have the reptilian amygdala just like psychopaths, all from the same "Cluster" of messed up individuals mentioned in Genesis 3:15. This is why the Bible calls them "serpents" or "vipers"...see Psalm 58:3-5
Exactly 💯, it happened to me and they try to destroy you with non stop bombardment of personal information that they deal out to anyone who will listen . Such cruelty,.
Thank you for pointing out that betrayal is traumatic. I’ve experienced it so many times recently, in every area of my life. I’ve been so burnt out that I was starting to internalize things and think it is me and things I’m saying and doing.. Thank you for sharing so much it is really helping me to understand myself and make better choices.
It is really really hard, but you must fight it or get away. It’s made me physically ill-I am a cancer survivor (the whole time I was sick he made snide comments & practically threw food at me. I couldn’t keep anything down & he said it made him sick to listen so I ended up in the backyard behind a bush. My dog was the only one that showed me love & concern. She stayed with me outside every time. The tamoxifen made me feel so strange & my hubs checked into having me committed-had the paperwork from the Sheriff’s Dept. He said he didn’t because it was too embarrassing. I asked who was embarrassed? If you thought I was really that mentally ill it would be a kindness to get me help. He said it to make me feel small & to show what he COULD do if he felt like it. I told him to go ahead.
@@chanchan5349 I am glad that you are a survivor! The first time I distanced myself was years ago when I started having nodes on my thyroid. I stayed away for years and they diminished. Now it’s easier for me to distance myself. Stay well!
My last narcissist was telling me whatever I wanted to hear (I wanted a formal relationship, not casual) for a month or so but always hold it against me, in the end he said "I was betraying MY SELF for you" when he was acting in a hurtful or toxic way. that's a new one. He knew I told him from the beginning what is done only from sacrifice won't last.
I am so grateful to you for your work. "You didn't do anything wrong, you just wanted accountability" was a very helpful phrase to hear you say after describing those contexts in detail. Thank you for this video.
A sense of MENACE! YES! I'm dealing with exactly what you're describing now, vicariously, but probably about to happen to me soon from the same person as well. Yet again. My housing is at stake. I feel so awful that I'm still a burden on this person because I can't move out, so all prayers will be appreciated! I'm putting out job applications yet again I'm older and I don't get calls back but I pray I will, for a good, stable, decent job.
WOW! Thank you for so clearly presenting this. This was my mom exactly. And when she got to the victim reversal part, her voice and demeanor would change to that of a little girl.
😂 I’m laughing because you’ve all just brought back memories of the person I’m walking away from. Once my father passes away I’m cutting all contact, just can’t do it yet as he has dementia and I can’t escape contact with her as a result.
This is the first time I hear the Darvo method. I didn't know there was a name to this behavior and it's sad that it's happen so many times that there is a name for it. I had to experience this constantly from my narcissist. The explanation is comforting because it reminds me that it is real and not me just being gaslighted.
I think I have to admit I was with a covert narcissist. Even though we were both on the path of our better selves all of her actions started showing me something. I had no clue she was a narcissist but after I experienced her rage as she was moving out I couldn't deny it. She's done everything that's being described.
This is such an important framework for understanding the abuse dynamics... It's like a much darker version of the Drama Triangle from transactional analysis, and how TA "games" play out.
My brother used to respond with “ if in your own mind you feel comfortable with that I will respect your position “. This has been a blessing for me. If you are dealing with a seriously deprived person it will evoke a violent response so choose your victim wisely.
I have been texting my sister and finally telling her how I feel about her behavior and unkind words. I am starting to hold her accountable. For SO LONG, I thought *I* was the "off" one; but I am starting to just -- explain her DARVO, in fact, behavior. Lol. She doesn't remember. In spite of the facts of course! She was the ONLY one I told, and wrote to her about. Then years later my mom told me she had it in writing. Well my sister was the ONLY one I told. "If I remember, I would apologize." 😶
Don't bother sending that. They will never admit it, and use your words against you. Like look what she sent me. It upset me so. How awful of her. Shes slandering me. I have proof now. Dont bother. Just grey rock her. You'll never get an apology. Narcs don't say, sorry I gaslit you, embarrassed you, etc.
My mother and 3 siblings play the I don't remember game, or my very narcissistic youngest sister has a new line "the past doesn't exist address me as I am". LoL. I grey rock the group and they pretend I'm dead. My 93yr old mother asked me a couple of weeks ago on a rare call from her nursing home, "who will bury you?". I told her Mom for 20 yrs I've told drs and hospitals I have no next of kin, so no one will bury me beyond a company. That surprised her. I left it with what did you and the "girls" expect to happen? She said I really don't know. Her cognitive decline has edged off her narcissistic scheming.
First of all I just want to point out how awesome it is that Dr. Ramani does these videos curled up in her comfy chair with her kitty!😸 Brilliant insights I wish more people were aware of! Especially the family court system and social workers who were all manipulated by the well played victim role my daughters father played. I love how she ends with "its not you who is losing your mind, thats just how this thing works". After 18 years I learned a lot and most importantly that my intuition was spot on all the time. Trust your gut whether anyone else believes you or not!
Having a husband that is the scapegoat and narcissistic brother and mother in law (father in law enabler) is so exhausting and heartbreaking, I remain strong to be his rock, we moved to another city and yet they harass us with countless calls and texts. anyway moving was the best decision ever.
This is such a good explanation of what they do! I’m two years out from being discarded due to asking for accountability, and the smear campaign is still going strong. The bitterness is unreal. More people are seeing it now, so that’s nice.
This is exactly what I’m dealing with in the relationship with my emotionally abusive mother. Learning a lot about myself in therapy along the way, but undoing 40 years of trauma and bad learned behaviors is gonna take a while.
Beware the person who stabs you and tells the world they are the one who's bleeding.
Good one!
I am here because i am trying to understand and heal from my ex (he uses DARVO generously, by the way). But. Your comment made me remember how my mother literally cut my knee open when she was trying to hit me with a balcony glass door. It bled like hell. She proceeded to cry that her heart was bleeding more. Jesus Christ.
This is FABULOUS!!!
Crybully
Thank you for this excellent quote! It’s perfection. I took a snap of it and then circled it in red for future referencing. 😊
“They never get exhausted…”
So true! They live for the fight. This is where they get their energy and adrenaline rush. Then sleep like a baby because there’s no sense of remorse, ever.
OMG yes! That's exactly what would happen after our fights. I'd be devastated, and usually drained for days afterwards but he'd go from there to playing with the kids or working on the farm or just playing video games and off to bed. Meanwhile I'm laying in bed trying to figure out how I became so horrible and why my memory was so bad but the doctors kept saying it was fine.
@@aprildawnsunshine4326 emotional dysregulation; they need to dump off their negative emotions onto someone else. Also, when someone else is reacting to them (the victim is angry, sad, feeling guilty etc) there are a few things happening that helps the Narc. In some ways they feed off the negative energy. Also they look at you and now start to feel superior. Sometimes they also enjoy causing suffering and pain.
Don't feed the beast.
They can fight with each other.
Yes. They get their life energy from sucking the energy out of others - literally. That is why the more you can physically stay away from them, the better.
@@javiervidal366perfectly stated
They don't just deny, they turn around and blame YOU.
That is the attack after the denial.
"They never get exhausted" but they exhaust you!
Their whole life is DARVO they can’t take responsibility for anything no matter how insignificant, it’s bazaar.
1. Denial (antagonistically denying evidence)
2. Attack (direct dismantling, indirectly threatening or exhausting you with relentless arguments, dominant and having the upper hand)
3. Reversing Victim
and Offender (everyone is out to get them, they turn themselves into the victim now)
You got harmed now just to hold the other person accountable
Dd
I am glad to know there is a term to what I experience. This is exactly what happens with me. DARVO
Yep, and it sucks.
Experienced this many times.
I recently worked under a boss that was a narc... he would constantly tell me to talk to him about my problems but he never addressed any of my concerns. Eventually when I left I was labelled as the worst person in the world and was threatened with every threat they could think of, as if that wasnt enough I was told that I my complaints weren't valid.
So you lose no matter what you do, the only way for you to be considered a good employee is to shut up and put up with disrespect and passive aggression while also being told that you are valued. That is the text book definition of emotional abuse
If you have never experienced DARVO, you can never understand the torment of being in such a dynamic, let alone understanding all the traumas caused by the morbid tactics of narcissistic abuse across levels, especially in intimate relationships. My heart goes out to all other victims and survivors 🙏❤
Yes it's like being in a horror movie, one of those 60s satanic cult films where they make the one good person seem insane.
absolutely. because it won't just happen once, or every now and then. it will get worse and worse until it happenes every day and even multiple times a day and it just leaves you utterly exhausted and paralised, just staring into a void crying silent tears, feeling the lonliest you have ever felt while they are RIGHT there, happily living alongside you (until you start to break free, then they will suddenly shed the most precious crocodile tears for you, saying how hard they tried to make it work).
I think there's a final step that wasn't accounted for, when, once exhausted all other steps of the DARVO and you still don't buy it, they dismiss the whole thing like "I'm too tired now to continue talking, I've had enough" and just walk off. And then accuse you of torturing them if you keep asking for answers.
@@sujammaz Your description is spot on, and I'm right there with you. I'm at the multiple times a day point and am losing it. I am looking for a way out before my body gives out for good. Her tears will come when I leave, but they won't be for me.
@@darkcolouredglasses that, and also doing the hollow gracious "i AM right but i'll SAY i'm wrong (in a deliberately fake and mocking way), to prove that i am the better person and/or just don't really care" gesture.
I struggle with forgiving myself for being so DAMN gullible and allowing myself to be used!!! Please do a video about self-forgiveness. My co-dependency issues were in full bloom. I am so mad at myself for not self-protecting and having better boundaries.
My guess is that you were never allowed to create boundaries.
I hear you loud and clear
Be gentle with yoursef! It's not your fault you fell for the lovebombing. It feels nice, it feeds human needs. Until it doesn't. But because healthy people communicate their own perspectives in the hope to being met there and if not at least finding a partner to find a consensus, that's where we struggle.
It's nothig to do with us, though! You are never at fault for being abused. They are! So you "only" need to let go and heal. By looking in yourself what you could have done differentoy, you arw being stuck. I think she did a video on that topic already
I think she has. It made me come to the realization that I was struggling with that. In the last few mobths
They won’t honestly communicate ever their lies start from the beginning I still have a hard time with this anomaly why waste time lying and gaslighting it doesn’t profit anyone. They are so insistent to pay for everything even when you say I can take care of myself everything is a mirroring competition it’s sick bad behavior, exhausting, and very triggering. We want to connect to have friends but it seems not on a genuine or transparent way. One thing I learned about myself out of self preservation is to not over share anymore! Take time!
The power of a narcissist is the gullibility of the public.
This is so-well said.
I stood up for myself when my narc was being incredibly disrespectful and belligerent. He took offense to that and gave me the silent treatment for several days, then tried to act like nothing happened. When I told him I expected an apology for how he acted he denied he did it, then said I was disrespectful to him. It’s remarkable how predictable this style of conflict is for them.
They were taught this from childhood and they remain little children.
So true.. very childish they are
Very similar experience here in a past, thankfully short-lived relationship. Three nights of silent treatment for asking to go home after a long weekend of extreme sports where I was mostly the assistant supporting his ‘training’. I was exhausted and needed rest, and mid afternoon on the third day voiced that I wanted to sit the next round out. A five hour silent drive home and four days of silence later, he emerged from his room and when I asked if he was ok he seemed totally fine. I had been in agony, lonely and afraid that I had crossed some terrible line in his books. He denied there had been any issue or silence. Incredulous, I described his closed door and silence since the previous week. I had been so worried about him, and us, had felt his anger. Where had he gone etc,,, His answer was that he “wouldn’t have to act like that if I didnt behave the way I did.”
I was shocked. It was one of several increasingly dangerous signs that prompted the end. Thankfully I had a therapist at the time who saw the DV danger and helped me make a quick and safe exit in case he turned violent. I now understand how people get stuck and completely lost inside controlling relationships.
Amen. So true
@@jilewa Wow glad to hear you got away from one at an early stage, good job!!! Pleased for you!
Almost 3 years ago I wrote a (too polite) email confronting my mother's husband after he choked and slammed my brother up against a wall. To this day the only thing that gets brought up in a negative light is my "horrible hurtful email". Videos like this help me to truly see that I am not alone, I am not crazy, and I ABSOLUTELY made the right decision in going no contact with the narcs and enablers in my life. Thank you Dr. Ramani 🖤
You should have called law enforcement
I'm never polite with these vipers anymore. I let em have it, both barrels....😅😆
Good for you for doing what you thought was right the right thing while maintaining your dignity. What a shame they turned on you too. I hope your brother is able to follow your example. So glad you made it out! 💪
Wow. You know that email wasn’t horrible, right? This is the definition of gaslighting. Do you have to talk to them? Maybe you do. Unfortunately extricating yourself from family isn’t always possible. Stand your ground though.
@@precisionfrequency My email was too nice! I called him out on his bad behavior and I clearly stated my boundaries. I mentioned my trust issues which I regret cause he weaponized that bit a whole lot. And now I'm not in contact with him or my mother. She sadly went out of her way to choose a side and just be horrible to me. Its been really rough...I'm honestly in therapy now cause of all this.
Dr. Ramani you got me with " you'd have more luck teaching your cat to do the dishes". Perfect! 10 years post divorce from my 40 year marriage to a Narcissist galore, I can now clearly see and sometimes even chuckle at the futility I was faced with in every situation with this man. The sad part was I knew it, but just put up with it until I got my children raised and mostly on their own. Sadly for me I was just too old and not willing to take a chance with someone else. I had lost too much already. Alone by choice, lonely at times, but happy to be my own person and no longer dealing with conflict and blame about anything. 🤗💜 Thanks Dr. Ramani for the clarity!
Good luck to you... At the end we all have to love and live with ourselves 💖
I am right there with you.
❤❤
They apply this strategy:
1. The best defense is a good offense
2. Fix the blame not the problem
When the healthy behavior is the other way around ("Fix the problem not the blame ".)
Wow that really captures it: fix the blame not the problem.
@@javiervidal366 my sister for once didn't have a comeback.
Wow. 🎯
Spot on!
Yup. That's exactly it. Classic inverted logic. Everything is upside-down, inside-out with these people.
This should 1000% be taught in schools at a basic high school level. Think of all the pain it could save empaths and also hopefully shed light on budding narcissists at an early age maybe even early enough to reverse the behavior through accountability and self-awareness
Agreed!
Wanna know something crazy? She told me about this acronym, this process. While she steadily increased the gaslighting. what a trip.
@@kholub7520 Yup
That’s eloquent gaslighting!!!!!! What the heck
I'm not into this labeling of people, dividing up the world into narcs and 'empaths'. Which... I'm skeptical about. I'd much rather talk about behaviour.
This woman’s brain is operating on a whole other galactic level of insight, and she is so stinking funny!!! “You have a better shot a teaching a cat to do the dishes than changing a narcissist”… ahhh how we love you Dr. Ramani 😂❤❤
Narcissists can leave you baffled and spinning in circles for years, but once you fully recognize thier patterns and motives, they become as predictable as clockwork and easily identified for the ugly souls they really are, making it that much easier to walk away.
so true, and as far as i know, that is the second to last stage in thinking about them. The last stage is true pity for their disability, gratitude you're not like that, but no hesitation to protect yourself from them - but without anger. Just like you wouldn't be angry at somebody with involuntary movement who hit you by mistake, but you would prevent the next hit by staying out of reach of their arms. I'm not at that last stage yet.
My ex-fianceé had this reaction *every* time I brought an issue to the table. I tailored my approach to be so non-cofrontational, so soft and timid...and then this is the reaction I got *every* *time!* For fourteen years! I thought we were working things throughout the years. Turns out: at 36, he was stuck with the same emotional maturity we both had when we got together. At 21...even then I felt like he argued like a 13yo. I would reach the peak of frustration and say that he argued like a child...I hoped that would wake him up, but he never changed his behavior. Now he's 36 and argues like a pubescent teenager...The writing was on the wall way back then.
I really think my cat could do the dishes better than this jackass can cope.
You have made me realize so much, Dr. Romani. Thank you for the validation. For my sanity...I really needed that. 🙏
it's funny because every story from here including yours sounds like my daily life for the past 2 years
@@Idontwantcookies I'm sorry to hear that. I learned that I was with a man that didn't want to be a parter in a relationship, he was never going to hear my side of things, and the worst part: he was never going to change. I wish the best for you. Whether that's counseling and growth in your relationship, or future with someone else. Best of luck.
I was in a serious relationship with a man who did the exact same. He told me that I needed to be more gentle with him, because after I found out he omitted his secret mortgage during out budget conversation, I asked him "what else is there?"
He told me that we needed to have a serious conversation, and acted so sweet about it. We grabbed dinner before, which was a nice time. We then went back to his apartment, sat down to talk. He reached out, patted my hand, and pronounced with a smile, "I won't tolerate your behavior of doubting me."
What else was there? Not only did he have a secret mortgage, but he had two secret dependents, and they had their own debts that he was paying off. He knew I was close to finding out the truth and tried to bully me into trusting him.
Your compassion and forgiveness will never be great enough for a person who needs you to have no self-respect.
DARVO. Denial attack reverse victim offender. Just happened to me. Called the ambulance because she was threatening to self harm and boom - DARVO - now I am off to court to defend a protection order. She played the police officer like a banjo. This video is so synchronistic. I love you Dr Ramani. 💜🇦🇺
That's really low. It shouldn't surprise me how despicable they can be
@@javiervidal366 can you believe she is in the final stages of progressive multiple sclerosis with huge brain damage and they aren't even going to take her licence to drive off of her.
Called cops after the narc smashed my laptop in my face, lip bleeding, computer ruined. Watched DARVO happen. Cops agreed I must be nuts since bleed wasn't big, ignored my computer loss, and warned me to stay away from my attacker and not aggravate him. So despite other assaults before it ended i never called cops again, why bother!
@@joywebster2678 I'm feel'n ya' 💜🇦🇺
@@joywebster2678 OMG that's horrific. I hope you can heal and get protection from him. Document everything and a restraining order if you can. Stay safe
“ Holding the narcissist accountable is as futile as teaching a cat to do the dishes.”😂 I cannot express how grateful I am for Dr. Ramani & these videos & comments. It lessens the pain because we realize we aren’t hallucinating or crazy… & actually, we see so clearly that we can cut the poisonous people off at the turn, that we must break all those joy stunting patterns. I may always be a little hyper vigilant & I may continue to feel triggered but these informative videos give me a safety net that always leads me back to healing myself with self- care & love. So grateful. ❤
The only way is thru the legal system, usually.
Very Well said💯 I come here EVERYDAY to feed my brain and learn more and continue to heal🙏🏾
That is so familiar. My narcissist spouse will poke, poke, and poke to start an argument and then immediately pull out the phone to record video as soon as I even start to speak to defend myself.
I had to start recording my narcissist too just for peace of mind mostly but it helped me see I wasn't crazy
I'm not the only one experiencing this kind of DARVO betrayal. This is a THING. It relieves the 'crazy' feeling. So grateful to Dr. Ramani and her shedding light on all of this. Love the comparison of futility - teaching your cat to do the dishes!
If only the cat would do the dishes .ive been vommiting for four solid days ..and the poor neighbor who I adore has Alzheimer's told the neighbor that I have mental health issues. Its not directly menacing I. Just afraid after reading about the old senior who disemboweled his wife Thanksgiving day in mexico
💜☮️💡gracious
My parents called it "teaching a pig how to fly"
Trump is already a classic example.
WHAT IS IN THE DARK ALWAYS GETS EXPOSED IN DA LIGHT...ESPECIALLYTHE FUCHED UP NARCISSISTIC ABUSERS,PREDATORS, LIARS,THIEVES, CON-ARTISTS, ETC...HAPPY MONDAY..
GOD ,I LOVE MY MOMMA RAMANI! SHE'STHE BEST GUARDIAN ANGEL GOD COULD OF SENT ME...
TE AMO
HAPPY HOLIDAYS MOMMA. RAMANI...!🎵🎶🎼🎶🎵 I WISH YOU A MERRY CHRISTMAS, 🎵🎶🎼🎼🎶I WISH YOU A MERRY CHRISTMAS,🎵🎶🎼 I WISH YOU A MERRY CHRISTMAS, & A HAPPY NEW YEAR!THOUGHT I'D SING YOU A SONG..HAPPY MONDAY
LOVE ,YOUR FAVORITE SEXY VOICED DJS,AND VJS,VLOGGERS, BLOGGERS,PODCASTERS, SOCIAL MEDIA EXPERTS ,& TH-camRS..XOXO
DECEMBER 5,2022😇🎶🎶😎🎵🎶🎶🎵😎😎😍😘😘😇🎧🎶🎵😎🎵🎶🎼😇🙏😇😇🙏
How is this behavior pattern so consistent across all narcissistic people? I’m blown away how accurate this is and how weird it is that it’s across ALL of them. So weird. It’s like do they attend secret DARVO meetings or something to sync up behavior patterns? How? Lol I laugh so I don’t cry here. Thanks once again Dr R for one more invaluable piece of intel to survive these folks!
Mine learned it from his two narcissistic parents. His father was the worst. Of course the parents divorced early in the marriage…too much competition to outplay the other. Its like they took pride in sharing this family tradition of behavior with their offspring.
I once heard it was like a large Narcissistic playbook that they all share. Almost always the same tactics. But once you know the games they play, you can learn not to play.
Yes, those who operate in groups do plan & they follow the leader's instructions.
Even across different cultures and languages!
They are literally the most predictable people. Regardless of the flavor…
"You would have more luck trying to teach your cat how to do the dishes" absolutely love this, made me laugh so hard! Keep up the great work, you're an excellent teacher.
Agree
Your cat doesn’t do the dishes? 😮
This woman is genuine. I have never gotten tired of listening to her unique wisdom and advise. I have been listening to her for hours on end. She saved me from the bottomless pit i was in. Thank you Dr.
Double, Triple, quadruple thumbs up for this comment! Oh just make it infinity thumbs up!
What is fascinating is that when you are familiar with DARVO, you can literally see all the working parts in a communication.
I once worked for a narcissist. She caused chaos for everyone around her. Some of her employees lasted a week. I made it a year and a half before I was fired. It was actually a great relief.
Julie Oelker,You don’t need a narcissist in your life!
Why were you trying to "make it"?
@@eeronatnot everyone feels they can leave their job for lots of different reasons
@@brandonhealy7158 that's a non sequitur to the point of offensiveness. I didn't need a sociology lesson.
@@eeronatbecause we all have bills to pay?
Yep. When I’ve tried to hold them accountable they throw temper tantrums and somehow turn it on me and I am left feeling super upset and bad like I did something wrong. So tired of it all. Thanks for the info to know it’s not just me. ❤
You’ve got to remember that the typical narcissist is on the emotional plain of a 4-year-old so you’ve got to expect lots of tantrums and gossip.
@@Anonymous_Anon882 My 4-year-old is worlds more mature than his narcissistic father.
@@GrungyPisces I can imagine.
i have had this same experience
Me with my gf right now
Many thanks for being luminous, Dr. Ramani! Many times when I try to hold a nacissist accountable, they refuse to discuss the content, complaining endlessly that the problem is the way I said it. There is no right way to say anything that the narcissist does not want to hear.
SO TRUE! The pick one word you said and divert all the attention on that one word rather than the message.
Amen!
Yes, the semantics are impossible to make sense of.
Facts 💯
@@gogosylvia293 It's just their method of avoiding the truth.
The fact that Dr Ramani has a cat, and it was on camera during this video, made the metaphor of "as futile as teaching how to was dishes to a cat" even more relatable, true and memorable!
Hahaaa 🤭😉
I'm currently dealing with serious health concerns from being married to the npd husband who constantly does this to me. Just tried getting him to follow through on some behavior changes he future faked on...wow! Instant Jekyll and Hyde rage. Thank you for your clear, compassionate help with this insidious, exhausting nightmare I'm in.
I'm in the same boat. How is it going for you?
me too! I recently found some writing of his where he was writing about his own passive aggressiveness and he literally said that he enjoys watching people get upset when he says that he'll do something but does the opposite.
that is sadism and directly from the horse's mouth (okay jackasses mouth)
I used to record all conversations with my phone, wound up sharing them with the people she told i was bad, harmful,was “abusive” felt good to clear my name with most of the people who had heard all these lies about me
Touché!
You have to be careful with video. My state will send victims to prison.
@@ark194 oh god please tell me what state you live in? I’ll make sure i never visit or travel there
@@Rejectingmodernity01 I love Massachusetts for a million reasons, but their wiretap laws are way out of line. They are trying to change that, but in the meantime we can’t document abusers in that way.
@@ark194 When exposing a slanderous criminal is treated as a crime, you are being ruled by criminals.
I had an epiphany maybe I'm a day late and a dollar short but I realized at the core of the narcissist everything they do is because they can't be wrong they have to be right about everything and anything to the death even.
As my narcissistic cousin put it.. " I HAVE TO WIN. PERIOD! NO OTHER option!"
The core of them is denial
True! People who knew my (narcissistic) ex-husband would describe him as a “my way or the Highway” guy… even his divorce lawyer! 🙄
Absolutely! btw, I haven't heard "a day late and a dollar short" for years, it made me laugh out loud 😹
They are projecting a perfect image of themselves to the world. They know it's fake deep down. But the cannot admit that to anyone. Their internal sense of worth revolves around the perfect image. Hence anyone who attacks that image get denial, and attack. Then reverse victim and offender.
This is so useful. After living with narcissistic parents and then a narcissistic spouse, it is too easy to see narcissism in everyone and everything. Being able to use a recognized pattern to see if it is real behavior or just a perception based on a trauma response is very very helpful.
Lol yeah, and scary too!
No i realize why he hated emails. They were documentation. And he did want it.
@mariventris_usaI understand why you might be going through this, but remember...love requires compromise. Try not to pick guys apart to the point of isolating yourself. That would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Don't deny yourself the opportunity to find happiness with someone who's less than perfect. ❤
@mariventris_usaI'm a middle-aged narcissist magnet, so I'm speaking from experience.
@@scribblydoodle2924lol. I've screen shotted text messages and sent them back, months, years later...Oh, you didn't say that???? BOOM! LOL it's sad that I feel like I need to record any of my mother's conversations or wear a body cam everytime I go around her.
This is spot on. I decided to confront my mom about her showing a total lack of interest/involvement in my life for the last 20 or so years, and when I did so, all hell broke loose. My aunt and cousin tried to stop me from doing it but I didn't listen to them. I confronted my mom in front of the whole family and she acted surprised, and claimed that I was "always invited" for dinner with her (she never once reached out, and never once has been to my apartment 15 min away...). Then her brother (my uncle) stepped in and claimed that it's a "two way street" so blaming me for my mom's lack of interest or involvement. All the while, my mom barely looked up from her arts and crafts project she was working on. A few months passed with no contact, and then she sent me a facebook message saying "happy birthday!" As if nothing happened. I immediately blocked her. They are total lunatics
OMG, sounds just like my family. 🤗
ahahahah, same with my father. but I ate his "happy bday" message up, I said thank you. however, blocked him half a year later, and it feels okay C:
Well, it is a two way street. If she left you alone and not persecuting you after you were grown up it might have been she had her problems as we all have.
@@Carmen_Lapadatyep, something else going on in that 2 way street😮
@@Carmen_Lapadat Are you being deliberately obtruse or are you just projecting? Who's talking about persecution?! Her mother ignored her and never once visited her in 15 years!
I can't even say how much time I spent in DARVO arguments. I feel like it stole big chunk of my life, so exhausting. For such a long time I was always trying to see what I did wrong (in RVO phase), apologizing for my part and working hard on doing better next time. But it was never appreciated or even noticed and nothing changed. It took years and years until I finally started to see through it a bit, still get caught defending myself vigorously sometimes instead of saying no to this. It is like you always have to be ready to not buy their bs, which is exhausting as well, it is hard to just let go and relax, because you think everything is fine, you boundaries are down and then it comes and you are spiraling again, feeling completely worthless and not really sure what is happening or how we get to that point..
Darvo has given a new meaning to how toxic people operate. Thanks for sharing.
I remember last year at my job I had a younger coworker do something inappropriate to me and I tried to speak to her about it in private and say I didn't appreciate it. As adults. This girl had a meltdown and made a scene, started lying about what happened, and drew other people into it. When I refused to back down, she threw her hands in the air and stormed off.
Then everyone else started thinking that I was this bitter, older woman bullying this innocent, charismatic really nice girl that everybody loved. That girl played the victim so well, refused to talk to me when we were working together, and just made my shifts miserable with her sulking and silent treatment.
Ha. But it was MY fault. Not hers for doing what she did. I knew right then and there she was a narc and not to be trusted.
I've been DARVO'd all my life by my family and my ex-husband. Seeing this coworker blatantly do it surprised me, but at least this time I had the knowledge and awareness to know what it was and not to let it affect me, as I would have in the past.
Thanks, Dr Ramani.
I've experienced similar treatment in the work place, and it would feel like I was the only one to be treated in such a manner, as though the narc could sense that I come from an abused background and they try and test me. Perhaps there is something i it; maybe I give off a vibe they pick up on like a shark and blood.
Denial, Attack, Reversing Victim and Offender seems pretty useful to know, thanks for talking about DARVO.
Shes the best in her field and beautiful as can be
what, you're gonna use it now? 😁
“Pernicious” is the word. Abuse so subtle you feel silly at times, but it’s constant and mentally destabilizing.
I’m always teetering on the edge of wanting to learn more and feel validated in my experiences by watching these videos…and avoiding this truly invaluable-yet triggering-information.
Dr. Ramani, you and Dr. Freyd are BOTH ROCK STARS in the noble cause of helping to save people from control freak abuse!
Wow , so that’s it! When I confronted my husband about his 16 yr affair, he couldn’t deny he knew it, so plan b ,minimise, it was only once a month , then become the victim, I was so cold and unloving the poor man had no choice , top it off by shifting to hero mode by claiming he engaged with the affair to enable him to stay married for the sake of our family . By the end of this exchange I was left thinking I should send a thank you note to his affair partner for services to humanity. Thank you Dr Ramani
Man she is a GOD SEND. 😂
For all of you brothers and sisters out there…It’s not you it’s them! After soo many years of being ganged up on by a mother and sister, I stopped letting them make me feel bad about myself and I stopped making myself look foolish looking like a cat or dog chasing its own tail. I was taking blame and trying to hard with them…wearing myself out. Tip: being logical with these people isn’t wise. But being wise, takes you a long way. 🧐🤗 God gave you wisdom for a reason and now is the time to apply it. Protect your heart and your mind. ❤
💝💝💝
The one who abused me, assaulted, criminally intimidated me.. I asked for accountability, he pulled a disappearing act. ✨ I got PTSD. ✨
Me too …. Criminal act and ran and ignored 4 kids . All of us PTSD!
I’d rather a narcissist disappear than stick around. I truly understand the pain and aftermath and having children. Mine disappeared. It was the best thing he did for all of us.
@@Pink_143_6 Escaping narcissism is probably one of the truer meanings..the grass really is greener on the other side. It may not be pretty with lots to tend...but it is more peaceful and sane. Blessings to you and your lil ones 🙏
nobody abused you, stop being a victim
@@Sundais4freelee same! 4 kids and disappeared. They repeat the same crap with other people that will tolerate it all over again. They are sad people.
You are so right, I confronted him about his cheating, by the time he finished ranting and raving, I felt as if I was overreacting and I was to blame, clever, dangerous people. I'm no contact, he's filed for divorce, and has now admitted to being in a new relationship, months of lying and letting my kids down and turning his phone off. My older kids are disgusted with him, but he blames our toxic marriage for his behaviour and he plays victim. Luckily my kids can see right through his lies and deceit, he's betrayed us all
My mother was a psychopathic narcissist and she mastered this darvo to an extreme art. When I found myself with a narc boyfriend some years later I just agreed with all he said, insisted the relationship was indeed over as he threatened me, and walked away. I must one day write this up as part of my memoir catalogues on surviving narcissists lol. I did the one on my mother already. Once you get it you break free though. I. Now incredibly happily married to a very same kind gentle sexy man for 25 yrs and as we start to go into old age together, I am so grateful for all the things and people that put me here in this present time. Who knows where I might be, but all the things that led to this, thankyou, wouldn't wish it on anyone, so glad I had the experience though.
I can see why you haven't brought this up. I used to tutor people back in the mid 1980s in psychology and psychiatry (I never took the courses myself though) and I haven't heard this term in a long time. Thank you for bringing this back again as it does help understand the framework involved. Denial - Attack - Reverse Victim and Offender. It is a process and all processes are learned behaviors. DARVO helps explain 'what comes next' with a toxic person and in the process maybe learn to 'head them off at the pass' before they get there. Nothing more scarier to a narcissist than someone knowing their next move as the narcissist is supposed to know it all not anyone else.
Darvo is what made me search about this type of behaviour and found out about narcissism.
It was so confusing that someone would outright deny their misconducts even when the evidence was presented publicly. Everyone could see yet they darvo it.
IMO, they DARVO it because it usually works! Most people believe the narcissist most of the time. The audience could be staring at proof the narc is wrong, yet they'll still swallow the DARVO performance hook, line, and sinker.
@@ak5659 yes, those are manipulation by words, works like a spell leaving the victim confused.
My question is this: Why do people always believe the narcissist? Third parties/audience could have proof the narc is lying yet they will stillbelieve the narc and claim the victim is lying.
@@ak5659 In my case most people know how the narcs are and based on my observation there are 4 types of people.
1. The clueless ones, they couldn't decide who's right or wrong cause they're dumb and don't have analytical thinking skills and they don't care as long as it doesn't happen to them.
2. The people who know that the narcississts are lying but they're scared of the narcs and decide to go along with them.
3. The people who know the truth but are scared of the narcs and choose to stay away so as not to get involved in the situation at all.
4. The people who know the truth and helped me by giving info behind the narcs' back but wouldn't wanna be involved because they were their victims too.
@@ak5659 why do they believe the Narc? Two reasons 1) the Narc has been lovebombing and flattering them too! Just like they used to do to you! Remember when used to believe they were amazing and godlike? They STILL believe it!
2) the smear campaign. The Narc has been smearing you since day 1! Even during the idealisation phase, the Narc was smearing you behind your back. Saying you were crazy and weird and that you need help etc etc. Why? They always need to do a preemptive strike because they know one day you might expose them!
I had spiritual gaslighters in my life. Their attacks were never outright threats. They were framed as "concern" for my spiritual well-being.
Yep. Still having issues, and still around. Go get them first in court CPS.
"They never get exhausted." Good god, so true. She LOOOOOVED to fight. Would go out of her way to corner me, just to fight, and fight, and fight.
One narcissistic person I know cries and sobs heavily during the final “reversal of victim and offender” phase. Often adds in feelings of not being “appreciated” and “I do so much for you” etc. you’re right, it’s definitely the most confusing and painful part.
Hmmmmmmm
You sound narcissistic and uncaring
They really got it down!!!
“You would be better teaching your cat to do the dishes”!! OMG, that made me laugh out loud.😂Too bad it is so very true. After decades of being gaslighted in this fashion I finally stopped defending myself. I remember the one time this happened yet again, I sat there in silence. Walked away. And, started planning my escape.
My ex was a very passive narcissist. He was not a "bad" or evil person. He was very damaged, deeply traumatized by his childhood, and he was never able to properly mature emotionally. He could not deal with being held accountable for anything. But his "attack" would be to just shut down. He never once lashed out at me, ever. Instead, he would invalidate my concerns by giving me the silent treatment, by refusing to engage with me, or by acting like he had NO idea what I was talking about, and whatever was wrong was just a total and complete shock to him. This was incredibly effective because it left me with nowhere to go. How can you engage someone who acts like they don't KNOW that a problem exists? It made me look like I was overly emotional and reactive, so any further pressing to get him to talk or react, just made ME look MORE emotional and overreactive. It worked. I stopped trying. I left him alone. There was no point in trying to talk to him.
Had a friend who 100% matches every last word of your description. Run and Don’t look back!!!!!
Thanks for posting this. I'm in the same situation
That was my ex.. Passive covert narcissist (very likely), who I met when I was 19 and he was 36.. took 6 yrs years to realize and 5 to finally leave him.. only to run right into a the worst relationship I ever had with a malignant violent narcissist.. thank God I had the relationship with the first one and learned about narcissism then, bc I wouldve never been able to survive the most recent if I hadn't.. the accusations he would lob at me when I would try to express myself and at the most random times would bring the best of them to their knees.. but still I found a way to rise above and detach.. but that darvo shid cuts deep.. frfr
Oh my goodness thank you for sharing. I've been in same boat with my husband and it's been such an exhausting mind F, especially with how he is able to get away with EVERYTHING and deceive everyone else still as such an innocent and victim somehow! I've buckled from so many things but often this empathy and sympathy (on top of guilt, shame, and confusion) for how screwed up he is, how unaware he seems no matter how much "we" (meaning I) had tried to talk about different issues, his messed up childhood, trauma, and family. He is ultimately still choosing daily to not think about or handle a thing for himself and ignore everything lying and denying to even himself, maybe the most, on a seriously deep, bizarre level that I don't think I could ever learn to fully wrap my head around. He seems like a big child, not to be mean, but a toddler and I've been his wife, partner, lover, mother, the husband, the parent, the caregiver, and everything for all our families for 8 years now because if I didn't fill all the roles everything went to crap, nothing got done, and everyone is hurt or mad, and I was the scapegoat and one to blame alone in this alternate reality of my life surrounded by flying monkeys. It wasn't till this past year or so that I got closer with a friend and was sharing details of my relationship and life more, like I did here and there the whole time with my parents and sometimes my mother in law who said nothing but I had to accept it, work harder, be less this or that and do more this and that, until this friend told me "uuuhh that's not good, that's wrong, you don't deserve that, you need to get away from that, and can't do a thing to change these dynamics myself because it was the unwilling to change, comprise, awful to me husband of mine being severely messed up." Wow, what some true honesty, care, consideration, and knowledge can do for someone! What Dr. Romani does is so life changing too and giving, caring, and amazing to us victims and survivors. I love that the viewers feel safe to share their experiences to give light, hope, and some sanity back to each other! Hoping the best for you all! Stay strong!!!
That sounds like a dismissive avoidant to me. They're conflict avoidant, emotionally illiterate and often shut down when confronted with emotionally challenging situations. But they withdraw from conflict, they do not seek it. Unlike narcissists they are drained by social interactions. They shut down and stonewall not to get a reaction and drive their partners mad but because they cannot cope and need a reboot.
❤️ I was at a family event recently and thankfully realized what #1 head narc was doing to me and refused to take the bait. Thanks to you Dr. Ramani I saw it coming.
I heard this term for the first time yesterday, and it knocked the air out of me. Why is this not known to everybody? All the years of abuse I suffered at the hands of my husband, this is the exact pattern that he has been following.
For instance, when my babies were small, we were attending my husband's brother's wedding. My baby girl had a cold, and the doctor had prescribed antibiotics. The syrup bottle contained the exact dosage, and the doctor had cautioned us not to miss any dose. But the baby wouldn't take the medicine voluntarily, and I needed my husband's assistance to administer the syrup. For me, I need to get work out of the way to be able to then relax and enjoy anything. For my husband, on the other hand, the work is just not a priority - especially if it concerns the family. So early in the morning we woke up to get ready for the special day. I asked my husband to help me administer the dosage to the baby so that I could then relax and focus on getting ready for the wedding. He was actually so good at such tasks, that it took him only a second, whereas I would struggle and end up not succeeding - so I really needed him to help. He just said he would help after an hour. So I went to him again after and hour, and again he said, after an hour. And we ended up in the car, on the way to the venue, and I was still requesting him to help me give the medicine to the baby. Each time I asked, it irritated him. In the car, he got really hostile, and took the syrup. The baby resisted, and then he just flung the syrup out of the window of the car. Stunned, I asked why he did that - the bottle had the exact dosage for 3 days, and we were now one dose less, and the baby had still not been given the medicine. To this, he scowled very menacingly, and started yelling at me. He said that I was making it a point to spoil a very special day and why was I such a problem! This brought tears to my eyes, and then he started saying how I was such a negative person and so on. Even his brother looked at me with disgust. We reached the venue, and I struggled to get my composure back, and my husband again expressed anger at how the wedding was starting on such an inauspicious note because of me and my antics.
I have a Narcissistic Mother-in-Law and I was feeling that same way. I felt like a coward because she grabbed me and wouldn’t let go and scream raged at me (shudder - I saw how sick she is by the look in her eyes- rage mingled with delight) and I scooped up my toddler and ran out the door. II was telling my husband, “I’m scared of this 70 year old 5ft tall woman. How can I be such a coward?” He said, “ You’re not a coward for being gentle. It’s a strength.” I believe choosing gentleness is a strength. Too many people are bitter and jaded. We just have to learn how to set boundaries. We won’t be able to avoid all negativity from happening to us, we learn boundaries as we go. For me I embrace my spirituality. My relationship with God fills me with hope that I am becoming who he wants me to be. We go through these experiences so that we can increase our compassion and empathy and lift others who are hurting. Narcissistic people put their energy into controlling and manipulating others. Healthy people put their energy into goals, creating happy homes, and doing good. Of course they’re going to sneak in a blind spot. They look for them! But Narcissists are miserable and I get to be happy…. as soon as I can stop ruminating. But that just takes time and patience with myself.
Well stated 😊
I take it you have met my X sisters. Exactly how they respond. I have absolutely no contact with them. It is one blessing of being single, retired and live on my own. By some people's standards I would probably be looked at as being poor, but they have no idea how blessed I am in other ways. I get by and am thankful, but now in my late sixties to be away from these toxic people is a blessing. I gradually adjusted over time to being without the functional family I hoped and waited for. Now I understand some things about personality disorders and I realize I can't change the weather in Chicago and I can't change another person. I know it might look like holding a grudge or having unforgiveness, etc. I don't care. It's prevention. It's time to be healthy. It's time to be happy. It's time for me to be able to be my best self. Fantastic video!!!
I’ve been tempted to address this behaviour recently but opting for grey rock. Any confrontation is a waste of breath (30 years of this crap tells me that) 😂
grey rocking.. it doesnt work too well for me. i did it a lot and now i actually have a hard time showing emotions to anyone. it became a real habit. it just made the narc more aggressive because she wanted me to feed her my emotions.
Thank you, Dr. Ramani. This is eye-opening. This explains how he constantly walks all over me with little regard or consideration for my feelings or welfare, yet, I'm the monster.
DARVO: I’ve had too many experiences of this, causing me great suffering since childhood. Thank you for for sharing this; it resonates with my experience.
Just want to say I absolutely LOVE when she has her cat with her in the video. Such cute calming energy ❤️
Me too ❤
The cat came to be comforted after dealing with another narsisstic cat it met in the neighbourhood
I love how calm the cat is. it reminds me of a cat i used to have
Dr. Ramani’s cat looks and acts exactly as my cat Miss Cleo, or Baby.
I just wish I understood this years ago. Maybe I wouldn't have lost my self confidence and live in fear and confusion. Your explanation of the DARVO acronym is so spot on to daily life with a narcissist. I AM that spouse being blamed for his affairs and cheating, being accused of making him work a stressful job and being told I'm the problem and I never validated him enough. I'm so thankful to you for helping me understand that I'm not the problem. It's still painful, though. All those years of trying and trying to get it right, while he was off cheating on me (which I only learned recently during our separation) and pretending to play rhe role of a good dad and husband. Years and years wasted, is how it feels.
I wish I could show your video to everyone I know and say "this is my truth. This is what 24 plus years of marriage to my (soon to be) ex was really like."
I thought I was reading my own post! Married in 98 after 8 years of dating, the most wonderful man I thought was the love of my life, then the weekend we got married, his mask slipped, but I sallied-forth thinking I was being unreasonable. I earned more, yet he controlled the money, which he made me believe made him feel less emasculated! My mom tried to warn me, but by then, we had a son, and having grown up without a father myself, I did not want to put my son through it. Unfortunately, it back-fired bc my son learned his father's gaslighting and dysfunctional relationship with me. My husband was so checked out as a father that I truly could have (and should have) raised my son as a single mom. I think we need to learn to forgive ourselves, we did the best we could whole being blind.
@@milliesecond102 I'm so sorry for the pain and harm you endured. I can relate to grief over our children being impacted by the narcissistic spouse. We had 3 children. My oldest was the scapegoat and was badly abused emotionally by his dad. So they are pretty much estranged and yet my son displays the same antagonistic traits - and I'm the one left on the dealing with it. My middle child, who I grieve everyday, died at 16 from a car accident. And my youngest is the sweetest, most empathetic teenager ever. I still feel like Im on the outside watching someone else's life unravel. But we certainly need to give ourselves grace and allow the space and time to heal.
You are not alone; 23 years of marriage for me and on the road to a divorce. The healing path is not linear, it is a grief like no other but the journey to finding freedom from the trauma of narcissistic abuse is worth every bump in the road. You can do this💕
sounds like my husband...after 25 yrs I basically breathe. Thats it. Too painful too much & hard to articulate how toxic..life altering/damaging it is. And spills onto the kids for I'll never forgive myself for
The best is to disengage. And if you can go no-contact all the better. Sometimes you can't and knowing the pathologies really helps keep my sanity.
I like the way that at one point the cat said with its eyes : "totally".
"Don't believe your lying eyes". Been there done that with several narcissists.
If Everyone Held The Narcissists Accountable They Would Be Forced To Deal With Their Own
Problems Instead The Narcissists Dumps Them On Everyone Else.
It Is A waste Of Time Calling Out A Narcissists
Exactly right! This is what my aggressive and controlling brother in law does.
Demi, your comment is the most logical I’ve read. If people would only set boundaries against them, instead of catering to them and further enabling them. Like breaking a horse.
But…….. by this logic, shouldn’t everyone be calling them out all the time?
@@elcee7800
Thank You So Very Much You Are Absolutely Right
@@No-xs1no
Absolutely Right
When you call them out on their bad behavior they will blame shift and it's a never ending battle,walk away if possible and completely leave them alone 👍 Dr RAMANI thanks for the video 🦋🙏
Agree it’s the only way to have peace
@@SirenASMR_ exactly 💯
@@SirenASMR_ Yep and they are all over TH-cam. Tell the truth about almost anything that goes against the mainstream and you will get endless attacks from these snakes.
Spot on. DARVO indeed! Holding a narcissistic/antagonistic person accountable is futile. It leads to unnecessary drama, chaos and confusion. The narc is an expert in flipping the script and would turn us into offenders in just a matter of few minutes. With these self-centred attention seeking devious individuals, damage and hurt are guaranteed.
Thank you very much for sharing this valuable information, Dr. Ramani. 🌷🙏🏻
"You would have more luck getting your cat to do the dishes" Well said Dr!!!! It is exactly like that!!!
The narcissistic person in my life accused me of using DARVO against them. This video is chilling!
YIKES! 🤔😳
That’s what they do
I didn’t mention this but my drunk raging daughter raged on me. Blamed it on me…
THEN called the cops on me and gave ME A RESTRAINING ORDER!
So help me GOD! Everyone in my WHOLE family is believing her prevailing false narrative. 😭🤯
@@LoriPARK1111-u1b make sure you record the second she is in your sight. For your own protection.
I tried to hold my therapist accountable and he did exactly this. All I was able to think while experiencing darvo was how disgusted I was by his gaslighting and manipulative behaviour. I am done, good bye therapist 👋
Wow! From a therapist?! 😮
DARVO from an “energy healer” who called in the past & future lifetimes shaming, grey rock was the only thing that worked to get that former friend out of my life.
@@ddmontg3402 yes, sadly it happens more often than you'd think
Please tel me u reported him
I avoid therapists with the exception of people like Dr. R and Dr. Carter.
They are trained plantation overseers for their corporate narc masters, in my opinion.
I love you for this, Dr. Ramani!
So true!!
The big problem is that people around cannot understand what is happening. It is very confusing. And the victim is living a real nightmare.
I was sitting alone in my living room, clappig my hands at this succinct breakdown...this is the validation I never knew I needed. The latest narc I had to deal with was my BF's mom, and I shut her down with composure and non-contact. She's been on a campaign which might still be alive and well, but as for me, I moved on. She's not my first narc and I learnt a lot about myself and how I tend to play right into their games because of my need to belong. To heal I had to admit my part in the betrayal, my willingness to become an emotional ragdoll in the first place.
Thank you for this video! This is a perfect description of my ex-husband. I hope no one EVER has to experience a hard-core narcissist's DARVO through a divorce. . . especially with teenage daughters. As nightmare-ish as this was to go through, it was necessary for the children. I STILL keep my disappointments to myself to this day because I have YET to express my needs without having the other person pull a "DARVO" . . . Nothing gets resolved and I end up being the offender. 🙄
This has been my life for the last 2 years, thank you so much, in 5 minutes you just made me realize I'm not going crazy. I've walked away in the last week and have been struggling with guilt, not anymore.
Guilt and shame is very common with narcissist abuse. Recovery is absolutely necessary. Awareness of narcissistic abuse is needed. It’s not you. I promise you that 💞
Stay strong. Don't go back.
Good for you. Be strong.
Thank you so much for all of your hard work and education Dr Ramani.
4 years ago I could not talk my way out of when I was being gas lit with the DARVO technique that they use.
I didn't understand it for the decades prior to that either, and wasted so much time trying to over explain, over justify, get in unnecessary arguments, or over defend myself for my needs n my boundaries.
Today I find that simple one-worded answers, or very brief statements spoken in repetition work splendidly against the DARVO.
Because as you said defending against DARVO is futile. "You'd have more luck teaching a cat how to do dishes"
Thanks again Dr Ramani.
PS. LOVE ur podcasts n ur guests are awesome. Congrats w the new venture.
My cousin is a covert narc. We're the same age, grew up together (34 years) . I'm reminded of the narcissists prayer -
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
I experienced this so many times. And always "we never fight, what's wrong with you?" to make me the problem when I had enough of his nonsense. Always stealing £3-5 if we were in a group and ordering food. Taking over plans if anyone else wanted to go out but he "couldn't afford it" (but can always 'afford' his own events). Playing the victim in any confrontation. Redirection. Guilt trips, passive aggression, aggressively creating a different public image after any confrontation. I would argue with partners to avoid confronting him, because I knew these things would never stop, but I didn't want to lose him, and I'd rather just tolerate them than tolerate them AND get gaslit (those were the only 2 realistic options). I feel so much better after going no contact. Even started messaging people to insinuate I am having a mental breakdown since then. I've learned a lot from these vids. Just need to work on forgiveness now. Thank you!
Forgiveness: Remember, they are real experts at what they do...
I made the mistake of calling my narc wife out when we we apple picking with the whole family. She started being very verbally abusive in front of everyone and it was very embarrassing so I told her how I felt, and I let the word narcissist slip out of my mouth. She proceeded to not only go through the DARVO method, be completely mentally annihilated me right in front of my children and everyone even all the way home. When you call them out on their bad behavior, be ready for an all-out mental ASSAULT. It is not even close to worth it, don't do it!
Don’t take her apple picking, next time.
Let her know, every time she acts out, she gets a time out.
Until the chances are used up.
Thank you for reminding me of DARVO and putting it in this context. I have been spinning with a family member who absolutely ignores the facts and attacks… this sealed my suspicion.
This. To a tee! I find it fascinating how narcissists seem to play out the same behaviours as each other, even if they are from different walks of life, cultures, genders. Those close to me certainly did. It's like the same circuits have gone wrong, and so the same negative things play out time after time.
Dr. Robert Hare did X rays on psychopaths brains and they have a tiny reptilian amygdala whereas normal empathic people have a large heart shaped one. This is where the conscience is located. I believe narcissists also have the reptilian amygdala just like psychopaths, all from the same "Cluster" of messed up individuals mentioned in Genesis 3:15. This is why the Bible calls them "serpents" or "vipers"...see Psalm 58:3-5
Exactly 💯, it happened to me and they try to destroy you with non stop bombardment of personal information that they deal out to anyone who will listen . Such cruelty,.
Every lawyer and judge should study on DARVO
Some of them may be narcs. My cps judge obviously was 😢
Thank you for pointing out that betrayal is traumatic. I’ve experienced it so many times recently, in every area of my life. I’ve been so burnt out that I was starting to internalize things and think it is me and things I’m saying and doing.. Thank you for sharing so much it is really helping me to understand myself and make better choices.
It's really hard not to internalize it.
It is really really hard, but you must fight it or get away. It’s made me physically ill-I am a cancer survivor (the whole time I was sick he made snide comments & practically threw food at me. I couldn’t keep anything down & he said it made him sick to listen so I ended up in the backyard behind a bush. My dog was the only one that showed me love & concern. She stayed with me outside every time. The tamoxifen made me feel so strange & my hubs checked into having me committed-had the paperwork from the Sheriff’s Dept. He said he didn’t because it was too embarrassing. I asked who was embarrassed? If you thought I was really that mentally ill it would be a kindness to get me help. He said it to make me feel small & to show what he COULD do if he felt like it. I told him to go ahead.
@@chanchan5349 I am glad that you are a survivor! The first time I distanced myself was years ago when I started having nodes on my thyroid. I stayed away for years and they diminished. Now it’s easier for me to distance myself. Stay well!
My last narcissist was telling me whatever I wanted to hear (I wanted a formal relationship, not casual) for a month or so but always hold it against me, in the end he said "I was betraying MY SELF for you" when he was acting in a hurtful or toxic way. that's a new one. He knew I told him from the beginning what is done only from sacrifice won't last.
Yep that's just playing the victim role. Easy and effective since it plays on others' empathy.
Creative Toxic Narcissist. Can Show Hell&Heaven.
That's a narcissist gaslighting. Hope you closed the door. 🙏
I am so grateful to you for your work. "You didn't do anything wrong, you just wanted accountability" was a very helpful phrase to hear you say after describing those contexts in detail. Thank you for this video.
A sense of MENACE! YES!
I'm dealing with exactly what you're describing now, vicariously, but probably about to happen to me soon from the same person as well. Yet again.
My housing is at stake. I feel so awful that I'm still a burden on this person because I can't move out, so all prayers will be appreciated! I'm putting out job applications yet again I'm older and I don't get calls back but I pray I will, for a good, stable, decent job.
Gave me goosebumps when she gave examples. Exactly 100% !
WOW! Thank you for so clearly presenting this. This was my mom exactly. And when she got to the victim reversal part, her voice and demeanor would change to that of a little girl.
I had similar experience - I believe my mother had at least two personalities. Her shocking childhood causedof who she was.
Same but mine turns to a version of Darth Vadar - her voice gets very deep and harrowing.
😂 I’m laughing because you’ve all just brought back memories of the person I’m walking away from. Once my father passes away I’m cutting all contact, just can’t do it yet as he has dementia and I can’t escape contact with her as a result.
My ex does this too, voice and demeanor totally changes. If i didn't know what he was doing, id be totally thrown
You’re not alone.
And now I'm picturing my cat doing the dishes. Thank you - that was a much needed giggle!
Jennifer Calhoun,You are beautiful 😍,Hope you are not with a narcissist!
This is the first time I hear the Darvo method. I didn't know there was a name to this behavior and it's sad that it's happen so many times that there is a name for it. I had to experience this constantly from my narcissist. The explanation is comforting because it reminds me that it is real and not me just being gaslighted.
Wow thabk you needed to hear this thanks for explaining Dr Ramani xx
I think I have to admit I was with a covert narcissist. Even though we were both on the path of our better selves all of her actions started showing me something. I had no clue she was a narcissist but after I experienced her rage as she was moving out I couldn't deny it. She's done everything that's being described.
This is such an important framework for understanding the abuse dynamics... It's like a much darker version of the Drama Triangle from transactional analysis, and how TA "games" play out.
My brother used to respond with “ if in your own mind you feel comfortable with that I will respect your position “. This has been a blessing for me. If you are dealing with a seriously deprived person it will evoke a violent response so choose your victim wisely.
Passive aggressive arrogance ... Here's a response, " Good. Now I know you are smart person."
I have been texting my sister and finally telling her how I feel about her behavior and unkind words. I am starting to hold her accountable. For SO LONG, I thought *I* was the "off" one; but I am starting to just -- explain her DARVO, in fact, behavior.
Lol. She doesn't remember. In spite of the facts of course! She was the ONLY one I told, and wrote to her about. Then years later my mom told me she had it in writing. Well my sister was the ONLY one I told.
"If I remember, I would apologize."
😶
Don't bother sending that. They will never admit it, and use your words against you. Like look what she sent me. It upset me so. How awful of her. Shes slandering me. I have proof now. Dont bother. Just grey rock her. You'll never get an apology. Narcs don't say, sorry I gaslit you, embarrassed you, etc.
My mother and 3 siblings play the I don't remember game, or my very narcissistic youngest sister has a new line "the past doesn't exist address me as I am". LoL. I grey rock the group and they pretend I'm dead. My 93yr old mother asked me a couple of weeks ago on a rare call from her nursing home, "who will bury you?". I told her Mom for 20 yrs I've told drs and hospitals I have no next of kin, so no one will bury me beyond a company. That surprised her. I left it with what did you and the "girls" expect to happen? She said I really don't know. Her cognitive decline has edged off her narcissistic scheming.
Narcs have VERY selective memory I've noticed....😅
@@reesedaniel5835 😔they sure do.
First of all I just want to point out how awesome it is that Dr. Ramani does these videos curled up in her comfy chair with her kitty!😸 Brilliant insights I wish more people were aware of! Especially the family court system and social workers who were all manipulated by the well played victim role my daughters father played. I love how she ends with "its not you who is losing your mind, thats just how this thing works". After 18 years I learned a lot and most importantly that my intuition was spot on all the time. Trust your gut whether anyone else believes you or not!
Having a husband that is the scapegoat and narcissistic brother and mother in law (father in law enabler) is so exhausting and heartbreaking, I remain strong to be his rock, we moved to another city and yet they harass us with countless calls and texts. anyway moving was the best decision ever.
This is such a good explanation of what they do! I’m two years out from being discarded due to asking for accountability, and the smear campaign is still going strong. The bitterness is unreal. More people are seeing it now, so that’s nice.
This is exactly what I’m dealing with in the relationship with my emotionally abusive mother. Learning a lot about myself in therapy along the way, but undoing 40 years of trauma and bad learned behaviors is gonna take a while.
Me too