Just wanna say thank you again to all of you who've stuck with me and enjoyed me talking about this show and Stolitz. This is not something I do lightly but I think its what I needed to do for me.
Pretty annoying that they also set up Loona having some connection with Octavia that could have helped smooth over the misunderstanding, only for them to do nothing with that when the story really could've used it. Man, I feel like season 2 just had so many good ideas that got buried under the *drama* of the main ship.
On one hand part of me hopes there's still time to develop a Loona/Octavia friendship, but on the other it is annoying we got episodes like Unhappy Camper when we could have had some Loona/Octavia character development.
They 100% are gonna snowball this into making Octavia hate men and go full Lesbian with Loona for the sake of ships and completely ignore Loona being thirsty for men for 2 whole seasons.
It was messed up the moment they tried to make Stolas sympathetic and his wife an abusive bitch. Should've stayed as Stolas being an entitled blue blood literally trying to learn how to be a better person and his wife wanting him to stop dragging their nobility image through the mud even if it meant she literally tried to kill him over it.
This video sums up all my complaints and criticisms of the show perfectly. I hate how afraid it is of portraying more complex, flawed characters. Stolas, Asmodeus, and Fizz are perfect examples. They start off as morally ambiguous, only to later be portrayed as saints, innocent and perfect, like they’ve never done anything wrong. They had the perfect blueprint for exploring more complex themes, but never truly embraced them, instead shoved under the rug and even in some ways retconned.
Apparently, season 3 would have a focus on Stella and expanding her character. She's meant to be a Beatrice Horseman type of character (they're the commenter's words and apparently Vivziepop's words, not mine), and the comment on Twitter said that in an interview, she said (though the comment paraphrased it), that "there's a reason Stella acts the way she does" and how "no one is strictly one dimensional." I don't know how Beatrice's arc was handled since it's been awhile since I watched and continued Bojack Horseman (not for any reason though, I just haven't continued yet), but I'm curious how the show will handle it since it also kind of feels like a too little, too late situation for Stella where it should've been presented sooner (fans have wanted that with Stella but it felt like the answer was clear that she wasn't a three dimensional character). The fantastic fanfiction Shadows Over Hell, which I keep mentioning here over and over (it's a friendship drama between Loona and Octavia and a lovecraftian horror epic that also slightly crosses over with Hazbin Hotel, especially later on), explored this in a similar way. It's a very well written story btw. It's very long, but it's fantastic and also gets intense when the horror stuff kicks in. The fanfiction has some outdated stuff btw like Lucifer's portrayal for instance. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I'm just letting you know.
Hazbin has the same problem unfortunately. I saw the leaks for Sir pentious backstory and I was so disappointed they picked the most sanitised and non complex version just so the audience sides with him and feels bad. Idk why Viv bothered setting a redemption story in HELL if none of the characters do bad things or are complex enough to redeem themselves in the first place.
@@MoonlightBrillanceThat's how I feel about both her shows. It doesn't make sense to me that Stolas cheating on his emotionally abusive wife is "wrong" as cheating is wrong, but Valentino can SA his workers because "Hell doesn't have morals". Or background characters can steal and no one bats and eye but when Blitzø steals it upsets the shopkeeper. Why is a shopkeeper upset at hell having a corrupt system? Viv keeps saying everything fucked up happens because it's hell but then turns around and shoves morals in randomly for drama.
It annoys me that we got 2 seasons of barely any Millie character development, and then how do they decide to develop her character? Pregnancy trope. Revealing a pregnancy for the sake of drama in a season finale just irks me. Like they only ever gave focus to Millie in how she relates to the men in the story. She loves her husband, she hates her ex, she sees Blitz as her best friend (which wasn’t really shown much before Ghost Fuckers), and in one single episode, Unhappy Campers, she suddenly has a thing about not feeling important- which they never touch on again, almost like it was just there so the plot could work. She feels so surface level, and now it’s like the writers were like “how should we develop Millie’s character? Make her pregnant and not excited about it” like idk it just feels like they’re still tying her character to her relationships to men. Who is she when she’s alone??? Come on writers!!
I'll admit I didn't watch the episode, and at this point I probably won't. I cannot STAND pregnancy tropes, and it makes me feel terribly for Millie as a character. It just isn't necessary and could be used as an excuse to cut her from future episodes imo.
I agree. I hate that trope so hard. And it ALWAYS makes the media worse. Scrubs. Bones. Big Bang Theory. If the start of the show doesn't have kids involved, shoving them on characters later on just feels cheap and lame unless it's the END of the show.
I see the pregnancy trope as a great way to further develop Millie and Moxxie's relationship with each other. Thus fr they were mostly just lovey-dovey but I'm interested in how they'll handle a situation like this, how they will grow even closer with an other hardship and fight off the obstacles together. Let's just hope they won't pull an other "Unhappy campers" considering Moxxie's behaviour
@wildbirbs9797we’ve had more than enough development on their relationship honestly. Almost every single episode apart from the one or two where they aren’t involved focuses on their relationship. We were all asking for an episode where they focus on her away from *their relationship* and just an episode where she is her own person. And then they pull the pregnancy trope, honestly I think it’s because they have no idea what to do with her character and this is the only thing they thought would add more effect lol.
It is a little disappointing to see you quit making helluva boss videos but at the end of the day, we watch these videos for you. I'm not in half the fandoms you talk about but I still think your analysis and shipping videos are interesting and worth the watch. Maybe some fans might be turned off to the idea but plenty of new ones will definitely come in too in the future. I wish you the best and good luck on your next video!
Facts-there are so many creators in this platform-good for him for choosing what he wants to do aside from what others want-it’s your channel,your responsibilities. Go SC!
The Visago critique is so on point. That was supposed to be Asmo's moment. It would have been a character solidifying moment for a side character that was built up for 1.5 seasons.
@@SuperMandibleclawbut a random friend of the goetia could? Asmodeus has more power than Visago, and Visago literally went toe to toe with Stella's brother in front of Satan, who's on the same level as Asmodeus. He would've been able to speak up if we take the writing seriously.
I like Vassago’s energy, but this is exactly why I was so skeptical about him, this guy just came out of nowhere to come and support Stolas? It just didn’t click, so that criticism was agreeable.
Thank you for validating my feelings on the “Millie is pregnant” storyline. I HATE the development. I feel like every development Millie goes through is always tied to moxxie. Even the episodes that are about her aren’t really about her. Someone was arguing with me that ghostfckers had Millie development, but her development in that show was her supporting blitz. They even tried to tell me Bee had development, which I’m pretty sure she’s had 0 cuz she’s just been a background character
I kinda hate how Viv said that since the show is mostly based of the the male characters so they won’t do much development on the female characters. I hate how at this point they should’ve just made Millie a background character if she can’t even get a good development as a character
I was kinda glad the pregnancy isn’t sunshine and rainbows to Millie given her job, but the way Viv still ties Millie’s character to the men around her is oof.. 💀
Eh her development was about her confronting her own issues and how she views herself actually and that's a continuation of what happened in Unhappy Campers.
@@Sunmustrise well she said that and Hazbin was supposed to be for the women but man Charlie and Vaggie did not get that much character development LOL Like it feels as if Angel and Husk had more going on for them It might just be, that women characters aren't her strength (for some reason... I mean i guess Loona has had some, but she kinda was on and off reverting until her dad nearly dies) In terms of ghostfuckers, really what we got was Millie is the most mature grounded person in IMP, and had a background reveal on how they met That episode was def more Blitz focused, we just got a better understanding of their friendship In terms of her and the pregnancy honestly we have such little time with her to really understand why she's upset over the pregnancy Millie and Moxxie seemed to be pretty stable and it's kinda implied that they're doing pretty good for imps We haven't had much time to know her concerns around parenthood and is it just going to be met with Moxxie being supportive as he always is "Dw Millie, we'll do it together" like maybe if they better established the M&Ms beyond being couple goals like when Millie was back at home, they coulda been like "Oh so when you thinking of having kids?" and Millie could have said smth like "Me and Mox aren't ready yet" or give like an uncomfy look to Moxxie kinda hinting that she's at least not ready yet which gets a distraction to pop up to divert convo cause like honestly, we don't really know either of their motivations towards family building we know that they love each other dearly and are loyal to IMP we know Millie is a farmer girl and Moxxie likes the arts but otherwise nothing else has been firmly established around this enough that can really ground Millie's reaction to the pregnancy test, and we can only really speculate "well hell is kinda shit for imps and shit overall"
Show really is a perfect example of Style over substance. Show looks cool, is acted well and the like, but the writing is painful when you look at it for more than a couple seconds.
I saw another comment admit maybe they just have to embrace that this is trashy media that they like but won't deny the quality (or lack thereof) of. If anything I hope fans and aspiring artists see the cool ideas and themes in HB/HH that have potential to be great but weren't utilized to their best ability and "yes, and" those ideas to make even better art.
This video really solidified for me that my favorite thing about Helluva Boss, was hearing someone else say what I was thinking. Hearing that I wasn't alone when something fell short or a moment was undeserved made me feel understood. I felt like the show was gaslighting me, literally doing tell don't show. If an episode didn't make me excited over a character or song, it would just leave me disappointed to apathetic. Legitimately my first thought after finishing the season was "I can't wait for the Sarcastic Chorus video on this." I'm deeply sorry for that. Thank you for your time and sacrifice on these videos, and thank you for deciding to walk away. I think I'm going to keep watching, just to see how things pan out, and then move on as well. \m/,
I was impressed by the second episode (Lululand) and have spent the rest of the series desperately wanting it to reach that level of entertainment again (It wasn't a masterpiece but it was legitimately good). But yeah...in the most recent episode their visual expression of Octavia said "I miss my dad", and then they had her infodump a song about hating her dad and wanting to cut him out of her life. It really feels like a lot of drama and twists are getting dumped into our laps and given what I've seen they'll probably get resolved just as quickly and disappointingly as they appeared in the first place. Also a problem with the cast being idiots who struggle to think or act outside of their predetermined character quirks (unless the show demands that they suddenly pull a 180 turn on their personality out of nowhere). It just feels like there's some legit promise for good fun in this series that gets undermined by a long list of basic writing mistakes (telling instead of showing, flanderized characters, a lack of wit, etc.) and obligatory padding (songs, drama, gags, etc.).
@@carnage0685 I meant to be responding to a part in the video where he mentioned that he wants us to keep watching as well, I didn't mean to imply that he would or should stop watching. Sorry for the confusion!
@@MrRawrCEO Same here! I loved robo fizz and felt like there were some incredibly cool ideas! The only episode that I liked as much was S1E7, because Fizz again and House of Asmodeus being such a great song. But honestly after that, I can't say there's really too many episodes that I enjoyed as much. There are some that get close, but I'm just kinda recognizing that the show format isn't for me. It had all of the right pieces, it just can't put them together. I'm honestly just really turned off from Viv as a story teller
I can't say I didn't see this coming, but it's still a surprise. But I'd much rather that you drop it and move on to things you actually care about than forcing yourself to keep up something you no longer enjoy. I'll miss your reviews, but I'll still look forward to whatever you make in the future.
@chosenuwu I could tell with each video he was losing more enthusiasm. It's like he said: it started with Unhappy Campers and he never completely recovered from it. I'm honestly surprised he didn't stop sooner.
Truly wish more people had the integrity to do this. In a world where shows are cancelled before many have even heard of them, I’d rather people with platforms spend their limited free time putting spotlights on what they enjoy. ESPECIALLY if it doesn’t have as much any eyes on them as Vivziepop has on her work now.
the best part of watching helluva boss was always getting to hear your thoughts on every little thing about it😔 it's sad to see you're stopping, but also, good for you!
Agreed, with the last 3 episodes before Sinsmas, waiting for a review from sarcastic chorus was more exciting than getting the actual episodes. I'm glad that they made this video addressing this and came to realize their true thoughts on doing this content for Helluva Boss. I wish them the best.
I think having Stella be an unlikable, one-dimensional villain is a major copout by the writers. It completely absolves Stolas of guilt even though he did cheat on her. The fact that they were in an arranged marriage inherently makes their relationship messy, and Stolas of course has the right to pursue true love, but Stella's side of the situation would be so much more compelling if she were written like a real person.
Weirdly enough, her character was what ruined the show for me. She's not a character. She's a plot device to make stolas miserable and make him seem justified in his actions
The moment her brother was introduced, I knew it was GG for Stella's character. Stella lost her role as a potential antagonist, BC Viv, and her writers suck at writing women...
@@DarkCircles698 Honestly yeah, her brother really killed whatever potential Stella had left. Since they were hellbent on her being a cartoonishly evil villain with no nuance, maybe she at least could have been a fun overarching threat. But no, her brother is here to cover that while establishing Stella is actually dumb as bricks and can’t do anything effectively aside from be hot. She’s such a hate sink, she can’t even have positive traits that would help her be more effectively dangerous like being competent. Now she’s just going to be even more of a plot device than she already was as her being a dumbass will see her just be used to fill in plot holes and give the protagonists free advantages, like why it took two seasons for her to spill that Stolas is breaking the law.
That or if the story didn't treat him as near infallible. Sure he wasn't exactly bailed out of every situation but they seem to treat him like "He means well" rather than taking a real stab at him. The whole scene with his argument with Via felt like she was the one in the wrong. Let him be an actual bad parent and not a father trying his best and getting nothing in return.
@jessicarattray6976 i dont think so, stolas was treated poorly as a character. I think people forget the context is that the story is based in hell and having moderate good people there doesnt make sense. How is moxxi a better villain in making then stolas? You know what i mean? Or like how is he treated as this super genius but still gets captured by striker and out played by vasago and her sister? He shouldve been a big bad that had an arrangement with blits. Not just anxiety ridden love making with a bunch of drama.
I am not going to pretend to not be upset about this news, but I will absolutely support your choice of prioritizing yourself. I will be seeing what the channel has to offer in the future, as my subscription with notifications switched in was never based on Helluva-verse content. I hope this is a renaissance for this channel and for you in the best possiblr ways!
Agreed. I (unsurprisingly) started watching for Helluva-verse content but I still plan on sticking around now, I still watch and enjoy his other reviews and this won't change that
12:04 This is why I respect Bojack Horseman so much. The characters have flaws, and the show isn’t afraid to address them and show their characters in an understandably morally gray light, or in Bojack case, outright bad light. Bojack doesn’t do things to try and soften the blow or make people like the characters more.
Literally I have 2 reasons to keep watching the show at this point. 1) I like the voice actors, especially Brandon Rogers and Ed Bosco, and I’m willing to keep watching it to hear them. 2) They mentioned Octavia is asexual, and as an asexual I *really* want to know how they handle it. There are barely any ace characters in media, and with how sex-heavy Helluva Boss is I want to know if they threw her sexuality in there to actually do something with it, or just made her asexual to just claim to have an ace character.
@@LyndsayChan they have Alastor as ace aro in the other show. going off his example, you can see his sexuality reflected in the way he interacts with others, so i don't think Octavia is just for representation sake. hoping this is the case, anyways.
12:31 I wish Millie’s issue stemmed from IMP still being in the red financially, after Blitzø spent like all of their pension. That would’ve been nice continuity imo.
I think she's worried Cuz 1. all women are worried when they suddenly get a kid, 2. I don't think she's ever talked to moxxie about children 3. They live dangerous lives and are enemies of many ppl
Its really funny that the whole premise of "I.M.P" and contract killing just got sidelined into shorts which is fun in its own way but just feels like it got tact on.
@spinningtornado4543 Um yes we will be more shorts. Vivziepop explained that because season 3 will be having 15 episodes, they'll be a bit of a hiatus until season 3 starts. She wants somewhat shorter gaps in between episodes I'd imagine around 1 to 2 months apart rather than 3 to 4 months apart. She has confirmed during the hiatus period multiple shorts are going to be released from now until season 3 starts. I reckon due to season 3 still being in production the first episode will be released between October/November. But its a great idea on Vivziepop's part too release multiple shorts as it will make the wait for season 3 a lot more bareable and is definitely better than getting nothing at all.
@AeonKnigh432 no come on now. The ORIGINAL PREMISE of the show was the group of imps going around murking people. Now it's about the relationships between characters.
11:49 yeah honestly that is my biggest issue with the show is that they kind of just justify Stolas cheating by the fact that Stella is mean.. I kinda hope it’s some point to give like a backstory on Stella episode to kind of make her a little more three-dimensional and make the situation a little more complex. I am also a child of divorce through cheating so that’s also part of why it bothers me so much
Lets be real here, Stella isnt gonna be made three dimensional she is a hate sink, and a pretty poorly thought out one. She doesnt even have any relationship with her daughter in the show (there might be one but we just dont see it)
I feel like any character she gets after this point will just be a retroactive band-aid. If making her an actual character that gave this situation some complexity actually mattered to Vivzie, she would have done it by now.
I think a good way to make Stella complex is actually making her a better parent to Octavia than Stolas was, therefore opening Stolas’s eyes to how much he had been neglecting Octavia. But I doubt they will go down this route
i started losing faith in the direction of helluvas story when unhappy campers came out. Totally agree about Vassago too. Him speaking out in defense of Stolas would of made so much more sense if we had that initial connection between the two, the writers could of introduced him to us when we got the backstory of how Stolas and Blitz met as kids. Vassago could of been Stolas' only other "friend" or maybe they could of introed him helping Stolas with his studies as young adults. Ozzie having little to do with the trial blew my mind, Blitz literally has one of his crystals on his wrist and it was never brought into question?! Having Satan rush the trial honestly felt like a self insert for the writers wanting it done as quickly as possible so they could fit everything in instead of making it an additional episode if they had to.
Or, hell, as a means of character efficiency, follow Sarcastic Chorus' advice and cut Vassago entirely and use another character who already had that sort of set-up to conceivably help Stolas more in the trial. Asmodeus. Stolas and Blitz already helped him out during Oops and the Mammon episode - wouldn't it be perfect payoff if Asmodeus had a bigger role in Mastermind openly helping them out more instead of this new guy we've never heard of before who undermines a lot of the stuff they tried setting up with Stolas earlier in the season? Vivziepop's character bloat problem is already approaching RWBY levels of bloat; the show would genuinely benefit from some tighter character efficiency.
I actually genuinely liked Vassago but I agree that character bloat and sidelining Asmodeus (who has a far better reason to intervene) are legitimate criticisms. COMPLETELY agree about the campers episode. That one had me questioning my life decisions...
Giben how old aristocracy tends to work, children often grow up extremely sheltered (butlers, nannies, few friends, etc) and only after a certain age will they start to make friendly alliences with other nobles and their children. The way I look at it is that Vosago likely was a friend from Stolas' teenage years or at least from after his childhood with Blitz. I understand the rushed feeling tbh, but for me it didn't bother me as much.
I hate how Stella and Stolas' presences weren't demanded. I hate how they didn't do the trial realistically, and I hate how nobody called out the stupid excuses Elsa from Frozen made. It feels so lazy with the whole "we can't kill you, since you're royalty, but we still need to punish you". They just want to make Stolas the biggest victim ever so Blitzo can take care of him and they can become every shipper's dream couple or whatever. It's so annoying, because they never elaborated on why Blitzo likes Stolas, where it began, etc. We've only seen a bit of Stolas' Disney Princess perspective of love at first sight. I also think it's cringe that they had to do the whole "they're meant to be" shit with "oh btw, they were childhood besties for one day and it was love at first sight". So annoying-that felt so forced.
11:59 - "...only for the story to pick the least challenging option possible so the two never look too bad." This is admittedly wildly off-topic, but when I heard you say that, the name "Tyrion" involuntarily popped into my head.
@@SarcasticChorus Yeah, I didn't think it was meant to be intentional. It's just interesting how such vastly different shows can run into similar issues. Helluva Boss isn't anywhere near the shitshow late GoT was, but it does have similar issues.
You really hit it on the head with the “softening” thing. This show is *desperate* to avoid treating Stolas with anything but the softest kid gloves and it makes it impossible to get invested in them.
Yep like hes never in danger at all which makes it so boring while as example in JJK, the good guys including Gojo were always in danger and Gojo even had to pay twice for it, as well as Nanami dying during Shibuya and many more good guys dying during Culling Games. But in HB? no one from the cast will ever be in danger, not even the villains, like look at Striker. Dude got squahsed by a statue and also burnt into hellfire but has only a few scares. And now even Blitz has gone soft and cancels missions only bc he saw a happy couple and mirrored Stolas and himself in it. Like cmon Blitz you are a demon, you shouldnt care and get the job done! Loona shouldve jumped the target like she wanted to. Taking Millie out here since she had mood swings.
That and also the complete simplifications and utter regression of everyone who opposes him. Stella? Went from being reasonably angry for being cheated on to trying to kill him to the show literally saying she was Evil since Day 1. Andrealphlus? Introduced to be an overarching Main Villain who quite literally has no effective plan relying heavily on luck and circumstances. Striker? Went from being a potential independent threat to literally being both Crimson and the Goetia's lackey for any of their plans.
I feel like Vivz is simply afraid of including REAL conflict in her show. There is build-up, foreshadowing, teasing, subtle ideas... and then it feels like she just backs out? It's like the characters want to be flawed, but aren't allowed to. Only to the degree which is "forgivable" and "understandable", where it's all just a misunderstanding or backstory parts are later revealed in favor for the main characters. I feel like we are trying to write grey characters, but in the end still just end up with black and white.
Agreed. I've always had this feeling ever since it was revealed that Blitz had caused the fire at the circus purely by accident, instead of having done it intentionally as a sort of revenge and having paid the price by losing his mother and hurting Fizz. I was extremely against this. Same story with Stolas and Stella. Stella became an irredeemable gorgeous narcisist, while Stolas was once more the poor victim of the system. Safest. Route. Possible.
Honestly, I respect you so much for this. I've seen countless content creators, for this show and others, stick with a property and do nothing but complain about every aspect of it. While they often have valid points to make, for some of them, you can just feel the soullessness in their reviews and get the feeling that they're only doing it for the views or to start controversy or just be negative for the sake of being negative. While I'm just a little sad to see u leave the show, I'm happier that you're prioritizing ur own mental health and happy that you won't become yet another content creator that milks the negativity for a show for views. I look forward to other reviews and analyses from you of other media you hopefully enjoy talking about!
11:05 I wasn’t against this shift at first but I feel like it leaned WAY too hard into the relationship drama. It got to a point where I was super excited whenever the plot was the main focus which was weird because I’ve always found character dynamics to be my favourite part of a show
I agree. It’s mainly the way Vizie made a complete shift towards relationship drama and not showing how relationships can affect the business (except for 2 or 3 episodes). In HB’s case relationships should support the plot instead of being the main focus. In my opinion at least
Same ,I was really interested on how it would go ,but honestly, everything since that one episode were they went to the human world to Hollywood, I noticed it wasn't for me ,stopped after viz and blitz solved their issues ,it just didn't entertain me anymore ,I didn't find myself laughing or waiting for a new episode anymore, then hazben aired and that was what Broke the camels back ,unfollowed vivzipop,and moved on
@@kicks4235 If the writing team somehow justifies the notion that having a baby won't impact the dynamics of the job these people do or the way they do it and time they can give to it, I think I might be done too.
Well for me this is her last chance with this relationship shi like we finally have stolas with blitz plz don't fuc this up or I will drop the show they don't even have to date they can be Fwb or jus friends for all I care if they leave each other over sum bull shi viz pulled out of no where I will drop the show also she better not f up Millie pregnancy either she has a child or aborts it if she aborts it let us know early don't have this pregnancy go on for a season and she ends not even having the child
I think I get it. The only time I ever hated listening to rock & roll music was when I took a college course where I had to analyze it and write papers on it. Thanks for the videos you've done to this point and best of luck on your future endeavors.
For me it was books. I love reading, but classes where I was forced to read a book and try to find just every hypothetically symbolic word and overanalyze it to death? Not very fun.
@@ThatRPGuywithtoomanyOCs I can relate to this. Always excited to finally read Frankenstein's Monster. Had to do it for class, hated the story, cheated and read cliffnotes to write the paper and actually passed. Still have no interest in reading it.
For a show apparently inspired by Bojack Horseman, it lacks everything that made Bojack good edit/ bad phrasing, for a show apparently inspired by Bojack Horseman, it lacks the complexity in characters that Bojack does much better - the characters here are often as deep as a puddle or are so surface level that it's unbearable to try and watch (especially if you watch any actual good animated content, you realize how bad the writing on this show actually is)
I can totally understand your feelings about the current helluva boss and why you are droping it, this actually happened to me but with a webtoon called Lore Olympus. I never droped it, but at one point i got so sick of the way the plot protected the two main characters that i almost did it and i just finished it because at that point i had spend years reading it and i felt that i had to see how it ended. It didn't help that LO had a masive Anti-LO following and a LOT of their critics were valid, very similar to Helluva Boss. Honestly, good for you! You shouldn't force yourself to keep watching the show if don't vibe with it anymore. I will miss your reviews but walking away from it will be for the best for your mental health.
NO because your comment about Lore Olympus is so true! The massive hate towards it also almost turned me off. But I also stuck through and finished it. And yes the critiques are valid! Same with Helluva Boss, I still find some enjoyment in it, but the critiques are valid!
I think their was a Fan made Re-Imagining of it that was a response from the feedback/criticism to the original, and uses it as a bases to answer the problems thus making their own version itself better from the original. Another thing that the fan made Re-Imagining of Lore Olympus reminded me of is a "parody" game called Snoot Game, infact helluva boss should have the same Re-Imagined treatment just like Snoot Game.
Your line about how they keep softening the blows has been what l've been feeling about this show for so long. Because actually showing accountability would have made the show better.
It's same issue I had with Steven universe as a show, it's like no one is the bad guy, and instead of handling the issues let's just sing colorful songs about are feelings.
@@MichelangeloVA The difference is that Steven Universe is a show for children and aimed at children whereas Helluva Boss won't let you forget that it's for "adults" by having the characters say fuck every other sentence.
@@MichelangeloVA did we watch the same show or did you guys just watch lily orchards video? (yap incoming) SU has few villains in the sense of proper 'Stella' villains because it's a show centered around trauma, change & forgiveness. it handles *most* of its characters/plot points alright, i.e the title characters, the main characters parents, those two side characters, all feel like people. Not the best ever and not my cup of tea, but its ok. With HB you either get evil screaming lady or soft boy uwu victim owl where his only issue is how he treats his daughter, nevermind his dynamic with blizto or his earlier characterization as a whole. This is speaking personally, but I also find it hard to care about the character's trauma with the amount of 'jokes' ruining the tone and the violence they do on a regular basis. I know its hell and its their jobs but you'd think any other show would pick up on how the characters murdered a beach full of people to at least imply something about the characters with that beyond them being 'so edgy, so cool'. It feels like the 'your honor i know he killed a bus full of people but hes just a little guy' meme taken seriously, and also an entire show.
"But sometimes... You gotta just walk away..." Is the best thing I've ever heard about anything like this before. He's not a hater but he just doesn't like how it's going. Just leaving it at this was the safest move, bro
Can't say I'm surprised, but still it's gonna be weird to not see you talk about stolitz again. Me personally, I've always seen Helluva Boss as a passion project with someone's OCs. Like, Vassago reads so much like that one OC who you like the design of so much you HAVE to put him in, when in reality he REALLY should not be there. "Kill your darlings" is an advice that Helluva Boss (and hellaverse in general) suffers the most from not following and in this essay I will-
I like vassago and his design but is just too hyped for a character that appeared once and wasn't even mentioned beforehand, why not use the characters that already existed and give them more to do, like asmodeous
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who thought Vassago was a pointless character in Mastermind. And that the Stolitz moments in the last two episodes felt “fan fiction ish”
It feels like Vassago was just there to set up the character for later and having him be more neutral in the story would have been much better than he’s shown. I don’t mind the kiss, it felt very driven by adrenaline which is emphasised with the one sided hug at the end of the episode. The criticism is still valid though
He was a one-off side character and the only reason anyone would pay any attention to him is because they've spent the last 6 months freaking out over THE LORE and trying to invent a novel-length backstory for him.
It really is quite alien to me that a lot of the (male) characters in helluva boss were bent over backwards to be fully justified. I really didn't need to know that Stolas was a good guy all along when the fun was that he was abusing his power to get a relationship, even if he started to truly believe in that relationship. Worse is it came at the cost of all the people these characters hurt being flattened.
I mean i feel like i was more a defender than most but as they say, a house built on sand will have it's roots frayed away. Say what you want about Stolitz and im actually happy it's getting healthier for my end, but i think like a huge complication is that a huge portion of the fanbase sends out mixed messages. Like they make some of the most r34 out there yet demand pure and chaste relationships, yet also complain that so and so character isn't having !@#! with their oc or that if Loona dates Tex then they must kill tex to give their fictional roleplay oc more fictional stuff. It's a 18+ aimed fandom attracting horny yet often immature 16+ tumblr teens that glorified violence to get their way which like kinda naturally blended into deth thets murder toddlers giving deth thets from skibidi toilet pfps over baldi x skibidi toilet x loona r34 whil saying they were 6. It's just a very awkward internet moment.
@@Notyouraveragenamengl this sounds really stupid yo me bcs the show isnt written for the fandom (or at least it shouldnt be) and the story shouldnt be written in response to them no matter what signals they send
Honestly, when we saw the sneak peek for Barbiewiers episode, I thought the plot was going to be something like her living among the humans in her disguise. Having built a whole new life for herself, where no one knew her. Aaaand then blitzo showed up with his group to kill her boyfriend/husband.
I thought of a similar premise for this episode and was excited for what was in store, only to be absolutely gutted when it turned out to be basically nothing. Major letdown.
Both helluva boss and Hazbin hotel have the same problems a lot original anime have. They have too many ideas and no strong structure. Honestly i think you could fix a lot of problems with the shows if you had an editor working with Vizzy so they can better structure their ideas. Because there are good scenes, good moments, but the narrative as a whole is weak.
Funny enough this is exactly how I felt reading JJK. It started off with such a strong premise but then it essentially became "All hype, terrible story." Like yeah watching a character get a one up or win against a character you want desperately to fall is cool and all but doesn't exactly compliment the story. And trust me, Helluva Boss is exactly on this train wreck. The recent episode essentially prove that along with the fate of Adam in Hazbin Hotel.
I definitely agree to these points. The original premise of both shows, and overall concepts get lost in the weeds because it switches focus to other things (which is fine) and then it half heartedly tries to circle back to square 1. The shows are not quite how they are from beginning to end from a conceptual standpoint.
I agree. A co writer or editor would made a good difference, someone to say "hey, this is a serious/cute moment, the dialogue definitely don't need a swearing" or adding a more solid structure.
With Hazbin Hotel, it definitely felt like they crammed every single idea they had into 8 episodes and the overall story is just a complete mess because of it. On top of that, each episode is around 20 minutes long, so it feels like none of the concepts the show presented got any time to breath because it's all going at a breakneck speed.
@@redboxgamingyt3452 as certified JJK glazer i have to defend it. JJK has more in common with sports manga and martial arts manga like Blue Lock and Hajime no Ippo than traditional Shonen Manga. Here the narrative is told through the direct clash of personalities rather than a traditional narrative setup. Combat, skill and personal expresion becomes characterization and the clash between fighters become the story, again i come back to Hajime no Ippo, where story of each match its born when you clash personalities in the ring. Certainly not for everyone and JJK clearly has some faults of its own, but its clearly more than just hype.
I love Helluva boss but I agree on most of your statements in this video. I love ships and I think that may be the biggest reason that I’m still interested in the show, but I think my love may die down in season three. I feel like the writers have run out of ideas and that there is no possible way to properly redeem Stolas and Blitz without it seeming rushed. Like Millie getting pregnant? Shows always start to go downhill after a character gets pregnant, I guess it could not be the case with Helluva boss but I’m expecting it.
It’s a slow burn I think thats why they weren’t a couple in season 1 and their communication skills aren’t great . We will see stellas backstory in season 3 and more people will write season 4
the millie being pregnant plot has potential imo. she and her husband are hired assassins, so it has potential to explore more how she feels about having such a new, big responsibility on top of such a life-threatening job. but honestly, im not holding my breath. really like this show, but the writing still has a long way in improvement.
The show was better when it didn't focus on Stolitz. It sacrificed actual character growth (especially of side characters) to build up a ship that is deeply flawed/executed in the worst way possible. Now I get instantly annoyed when Blitz and Stolas are on screen.
They also started focusing on the song aspect WAY too much. They tried to create bangers, but they really fell flat and unnecessary in most episodes, in my opinion :p
@@withmymindandmyimagination844 One half of the Season 2 songs felt like the writers just quickly came up with something to keep the limiting "1 song per episode" rule, with a few exceptions, the other half is grand, dramatic Stolas songs about the same topic with similar visuals. I can't even tell them apart. Compare them to You'll be ok, Immediete murder professionals, Moxxie's bad trip or House of Asmodeous, even Verosika's song. They were memorable, necessary to the story and had an identity.
4:10 honestly it would even be weird for big fans of Helluva Boss as a Show to like unhappy Campers. There were already pretty mediocre episodes in Helluva Boss like "Seeing Stars" and the Cherubs Episode but Unhappy Campers didnt release, it escaped
Glad to see someone mention the cherubs episode. People like to hype up all of season 1 but forget that cherubs was a downright awful season 1 episode. I hate it so much and that's coming from me who very much enjoys most episodes for at least a few reasons. Cherubs has nothing that I like. Unhappy Campers just kinda happened although I hated Moxxie in it, cherubs was pain to get through. Unlikeable forgettable characters, dumb forgettable plot and so on.
@maltemejlstrup4746 yeah, outside of some jokes which i liked i feel pretty much the same about Cherubs. Its just the definition of absolutely forgettable. You could start a rewatch of HB and skip it entirely and you literally wouldnt miss out on a single important detail for the ongoing plot or character Developement
@@oberweeb6584honestly kinda felt like the only reason the cherubs were in it at all was just to keep people interested in what heaven is up to since the rest of the show has nothing to do with heaven at all
oh yea, I am a big HB fan, I don't have issues with the direction and majority of the writing but Cherub and Unhappy Campers were dreadful to watch. I like Seeing Stars much more now than I did upon release.
Dude, I am already done with the show as soon as they were doing the whole Millie is pregnant thing. It is already bad enough that Millie was having lack of development and now Viv is going to make Millie a mom to make her more interesting? As soon as I saw the scene where Millie threw up, I was like "Oh no...... They are not going to give Millie the mom route. I'm done" If their going to grave length to make Millie interesting by making her be a mom, I'm going to be disappointed. I thought Viv was different, I thought she wouldn't go down these types of routes, but I guess I was wrong. If they don't go through with the baby thing it might give it another chance. But, like how some people in the comments section have mentioned, I too thought that Helluva Boss would be more about I.M.P's job and not the relationship between Blitz and Stolas. I adopted to it for a while, but I be lying if I didn't say I was disappointed 😞
Honestly, I think if we had less stolitz and more about the class divide in hell this show could’ve been saved. You are right to be frustrated with it. I respect your choice as I too have gotten tired with the show. I’m only here to see how it ends, will miss your videos though.
As a fellow Vivzie-verse content creator, this was _beyond_ surreal to watch. You literally had the exact same story, the exact same journey, and the exact same opinions as me. Our first Helluva Boss videos unexpectedly blew up and we kept making more of them because we had a lot to say and were enjoying the show, but then our jobs as content creators began to slowly corrupt our opinions of the show and our content itself was contributing to a social media discourse sphere that we were getting more detached from by the day. The only difference between us is that I never raked in as much views as you did, my videos' view counts dropped off even _more_ after season 1, and I pretty much crashed out entirely after the mid-season special of season 2. But aside from that, we both had the exact same journey of realizing that if the cost of internet fame is making an endless stream of content for a show that isn't fun to talk about anymore, then it's just not worth it.
@MoronicPlague If that's their choice, let them do it. It's not good to listen them talk about a show they don't enjoy watching anymore. They aren't quitting TH-cam, don't worry.
As far as episodes go it's tremendously weak, but I still liked it fine personally. It's like Cherubs from season 1 - I understand the reasons people don't like it but I think the vitriol it gets is unwarranted.
The most infuriating thing about the finale was that all Stolas needed to say to Octavia was “I’ve been unhappy for years but you have always made me feel better” like dawg just say you are depressed it ain’t that hard!!!
I mean it is objectively hard, but its also absolutely what Via needed to hear in that moment, and honesyly given Stolas is quite literally at or past his breaking point, I feel like it'd fit his character to say that, even if it wasn't entirely intetional and more in an emotional outburst way.
I mean, he did kind of say that with "you've always been the only good thing in my life" And she didn't believe him. If that didn't work, why wouldn't a slight variation work? People aren't perfect either, most people don't know exactly what to say in the moment.
Im more frustrated at Octavia. The show has done nothing for her as an individual character. I am not invested in her, but this show expects me to care about her personal problems. What makes it worse is that we've seen her recycle the same conflict over and over again. I see why this repetition can be interesting, but the show does nothing with it.
Vasago is just the beeeeeeeesssst because he speaks Spanish and I like, have no idea what he is saying but he sounds so sasssssy when he says it. *seal claps* /s
@@edwardhisse2687 Yeah, he's another "latinx" (basically a slur btw) walking stereotype that of course speaks in spanish at random times because uuuuhhh because he just does ok? Just like Vaggie is an angel that is somehow hispanic too (I think her being hispanic was retconned but still...) I don't know what's with Viv and making hispanic characters speak in spanish randomly but I dislike it so much.
You hit the nail on the head as to why I could never fully get into Helluva: It's the writing. The passion is there, but the way you worded it accurately portrays why it doesn't work. It always chooses the easiest path to solve the problem, not the one that will give the most impact in terms of story. It's okay to allow your characters actions to have consequences. It's okay to allow the butterfly effect to take place, but if you're only going to allow your characters to walk the path of least resistance, character growth isn't actually earned, it's just another story beat rather than growth of a character.
Also, it just struck me... are they getting Millie pregnant so they can effectively write her out of the show??? Or is it because they just don't have anything to do with her so they figured giving the M&M's a baby would be something new for them to focus on and generate genuine conflict in their relationship? Is it so Blitz and Stolas can give advice to Moxie and then realize they're both kinda shitty dads??? Is this a misdirection so Millie can have a miscarriage because she's so determined to get into battles because that's what she's good at? IDK... I think it stinks because I don't have a lot of faith in the writers regarding Millie, particularly when they downplay her legitimate criticisms of her boss and best friend (lol) but there IS potential for something interesting here. It's not often that an action girl gets knocked-up.
Idk what shows you're watching, because "badass woman gets knocked up and magically becomes a better person" is disguntingly common. No shade to you btw, I'm just saying I've seen this trope a lot and I'm tired of it.
i dunno my first expectation when millie’s pregnancy was revealed is that one of the first couple of episodes of season 3 is going to be about millie telling moxie and both of them being nervous to tell the other they don’t feel ready or something of that nature.
Yeah there’s almost no way I can see the pregnancy subplot going anywhere good. Then again I might be biased because I don’t like the idea of pregnancy in general lmfao
@sadgoat1999 You think Millie, of all characters, would become a better person? How? Edit: To clarify, no lol I clearly haven't been watching the same shows.
Both shows really abandoned their premises, I'd say Helluva boss does it a little better especially as there are the shorts and they still do occasional hits, and there's always the sense they are doing work in the background, meanwhile Hazbin just went "yeah we redeemed one sinner, now the hotel is just a set location" *time skips to adam's invasion and prepping for it*
They had only 8 25min episodes to close out season 1 plot. Also Pentius wasn't redeemed before the time skip. Did you even watch the show? I blame the rushed plot on Amazon.
@Radiogirl1931 did you not understand what I said? The episode where he was spying on them and decided to stick around is what the premise for the show was about, regardless if before or after time skip he ascended, that's what enabled him to go to heaven at the end, we never got that for any other character when that was the pitch They give the pitch the show is about a hotel where sinners get to redeem themselves, and only one character actually goes through the process of going from bad to good through the hotel. Instead it's just about Adam. It'd be like if helluva boss did one hit job in the pilot and then forgot the IMP existed
Sucks that I have to agree with that one. Like, on the one hand it's great seeing people combat the groups that will hate on something (especially an indie something) just to hate on it, but it's gotten to the point where I've seen dozens of instances of Helluva fans write off criticism of the show as the critics _'not being smart enough to understand the nuance'_ and _'need to have things spelt out for them'_ instead of actively and genuinely engaging with the parts of the show being discussed that people take issue with. A lot of fans don't want to *talk* about the show, they want to scream about it and if you're not hitting the same note as them they don't want you joining in at all.
Personally, Millie's pregnancy is the final straw for me. I was already bored with the Stolitz stuff and honestly couldn't care less about that relationship period... But the one thing I've seen so many ppl afraid of for Millie is the pregnancy trope and oops! There it is. Im so sick of this theme of "we cannot expand on female characters unless there pregnant or mean!?!?" UGHHHH Maybe its best to let the show simmer and come back.
I actually find it quite ironic that they decided to get Millie pregnant after receiving immense backlash regarding how empty and boring her writing is. People from both inside and outside the fandom have pointed out how Millie's personality being basically based around men, being barely explored and just overall focusing on Moxxie is quite sexist, so the HB team decides to... develop her more by giving her a baby? What comes next? If the M&Ms decide to have that child and Millie's character critique now becomes how her only issues are a mix between motherhood and Moxxie, what will they do? Make her a housewife too? Kill off one of her family members? It's not that women can't want to be mothers or be family-oriented, but come on, that's been the whole point of the commentary for the last 3 years at least; VivziePop's female characters are underdeveloped and it's kinda looking like sexism at this point.
I normally despise stories when badass female characters get married and have kids, but I actually might like this one as long as it's not like Videl's shitty character arc in Dragon Ball Z. Maybe they'll take turns watching the baby or they'll hire a character as a babysitter.Millie is considered the most boring character in IMP because she started where most stories end. She's already a trained badass, has no conflict with her family, and was already married since episode 1. Nothing really challenges her directly like all of the other characters. Having a child in their line of work would be a challenge for her because it's like nothing she's ever done before and it makes sense narratively because that's normally the next stage of a married person's life. Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss have a bunch of different father storylines, it's about time we get to see relationships with mothers too.
@peaches6405 Yeah. I would have liked to see her have a rival. Maybe learn more about her and Chaz since we found out he did something bad to Moxie and she made a pretty strong reaction to his return.
it just occurred to me that Stolas and Blitz's dynamic is very similar to Scott Pilgrim and Ramona Flowers. They're all intended to be flawed/scumbag characters to some degree, and their respective stories try to hold them accountable for that as they work towards a stable relationship. Scott Pilgrim even had a pretty similar problem to Helluva Boss where Scott received way more attention than Ramona did in the original comic series and movie, just as Blitz has had. The difference is that story goes out of its way to make it clear that Scott is a bad person and holds him accountable for his mistakes, and in the recent anime series, it does the same thing with Ramona. It shows the very real effect their poor decisions make on the characters around them. Helluva Boss doesn't do that because, with some exceptions, it tends to paint Blitz in a sympathetic light, and Stolas even more so. For example, not only was Blitz and Fizzarolli's decades-long feud reduced to a misunderstanding, we never got to see Fizzarolli's side of that story drawn out for us with that much detail. They shouldn't have made up immediately in that episode, because, intentional or not, Blitz played a part in Fizz's disfigurement and it's clear he saw him as responsible for a long time. We needed Fizz to stick to his guns longer for their reconciliation to feel more natural. Instances like this, along with the poor pacing within episodes, are what really damage the show. It lies in a frustrating position between having stellar voice acting, great musical numbers, and great animation, along with distinct and memorable characters, but also feeling hurried in many ways. There are plenty of instances where shots are way too short, missing important opportunities to let information sink in and have a greater impact. Andrealphus doesn't feel intimidating because we've barely seen him; when he was backing off after they all fought, he delivered a foreboding message setting up his return... except we moved on to Octavia like 1 second later so there was really no time for that to sink in as a genuine threat. Likewise, Octavia isn't a very interesting character because most of her presence is one-note. We don't get dedicated time with her. Show her bonding with Stolas more! Then when she does feel betrayed we can relate to her better. Digital Circus does a good job of this. The show is slowly working towards the big things; if someone does abstract in the coming episodes, I think we will care about it much more than a similar-scale incident in Helluva, because we've gotten downtime with the characters. Helluva introduces like 15 different characters then only gives us downtime with the main trio of Blitz, Moxxie, and Millie. The issue is moreso with time allocation, I believe. *Hazbin* is rushed. This is poorly executed, which is mostly on Vivzie. I think she wants instant gratification and it shows in the writing. You could restructure the whole story, preserving the major plot points, and have a much better, more satisfying watch, in my opinion.
Biggest difference by far between TADC and HB is that TADC isn’t afraid to slow down for serious moments. When Gummigoo starts having his existential crisis there’s no music, no action, no jokes, and it dwells on that specific scene for like, a full minute and a half before anything else happens, and even after Pomni comes into the scene the tone doesn’t change. HB just doesn’t have that. Every serious scene is interrupted 40 seconds in with some character screaming or some shit. It’s like the show itself has ADHD.
For serious moments, humor, and even just being able to tell what on earth is going on in a shot in a first view, one of Vivzie's consistent weaknesses is giving scenes the time they need
Lucifer should’ve been season 2, Vaggie reveal at the end of 2, Adam and lute being name dropped in between 2 and 3 with a tie in graphic novel. Helluva really showed its weakness when the last 3 sins were just ballparked in. Vivzie is impatient. Clear that she was spoiled despite what she will claim to be should you call her out.
@@carnage0685 imo both of Vivzie's shows have the same problem Murder Drones had but 10 times worse. I loved Murder Drones, but way too often it had moments that should be serious or impactful, but got immediately undercut by quips and jokes instead of letting the scene breathe. Thankfully MD got its act somewhat together in the later episodes, but you really can't say the same for Hazbin or Helluva Boss
I’m a chef. Trust me, this is relevant to the vid. I know when I’m at work, I have a timeline to make certain dishes. Everything is about timing, heat, flavor. I know that if I don’t cook a dish’s certain way, it’ll turn out not its best, and I want to be the best. I make a variety of stuff. I understand this as an artist and as a consumer. As a consumer, I like the kind of complicated works I make day in and day out, but some days, I just want something simple, and some people might even call it trash. Even if they’re right, sometimes that’s just what I like. That’s why I stick around
@ nah. They cooked. They made a product. What I was saying is not every dish is going to be a Wellington or coq au vin. And sometimes you won’t even crave that. Some dishes are microwaved pizza rolls, and that’s quite alright 😊
@@wrxtersblxckI think the problem people have is that the writers think they’re making a gourmet steak but they’re just serving day old McDonald’s burgers. Again, we’re supposed to see this show as the queer bojack horseman. It’s not supposed to be empty and mindless filler.
Vivziepop has never been a good writer. Everything she's made has the same problem, she introduces far too many characters, then loses sight of the original premise.
Helluva Boss Back Then: Comedy Show about Demon Assassins killing people for profit Helluva Boss Now: Emotional Romance Drama about an Imp and a Bird with a side of Killing for Profit
@@valentinkambushev4968and honestly his hesitation to kill the gay couple is downright hypocritical when he killed a wife who cheated on her husband before. It sends a weird message of: cheating and ruining your family is fine so long as you're closeted.
Completely understandable. Honestly mid way through season 2 I realized that I didn’t care about any of the characters and none of the writing decisions served to make me care *more*
@@BeautifulRenegade I FEEL THIS. I didn't get into the show until a couple months before Season 2 premiered, but even I could tell that something felt off compared to the first. Personally, it's become like Miraculous Ladybug where I'm only still watching just to see how it ends rather than actually being invested in the plot anymore.
@@delphoxhoopa7289 that is probably the best comparison. Miraculous and Helluva are definitely that type of show, probably only care for one or two characters and the rest is just curiosity on where the shitshow is going
As much as people love or hate it there's a factor that I always loved, the effort they put in. The animation, the voice acting, it's amazing in the end. This show has a lot of potential to be even better in the next two season (I think there is two more seasons left) and yes unlike Hazbin Hotel THEY CAN take their time and flesh out the story to close as many plot holes as possible. I loved the first season, and the second wasn't bad, it just needs some more time to fix the things they do in the writing a little.
Exactly!! For me, the thing that keeps me coming back is the fact that the people making it WANT to make it. I'll always support projects where the people in charge clearly have a passion for the property.
@@estelalopez6929 The show already has 10 writers, which is a lot already. If they were to get more writers, I hope they have more experience. Vivzie should start looking at indie shows like Lackadaisy and Tadc.
I honestly don't care for me better this show gets buried under other better written stories. TADC in just 4 episodes shown more character depth than anything Vivzie ever did. And I'm not glazing Gooseworks.
TADC has fewer lows but also fewer highs. Its a more competently developed show but i dont find it as compelling as the glorious trainwreck that is Helluva Boss.
Honestly I don't think your the only one. The vibe of Helluva Boss reviews is "this is popular ergo I must review it. Even if I don't like the show." To the point that I only watch One TH-camr talk about it and that's an animation/character analysis nut. I actively *haven't* been watching your Helluva Boss reviews (I hate clickbait). I also massively respect stepping back from reviewing it if you can't enjoy the show anymore. Have fun. Go back to having fun. Review some other shit because you WANT to. I'm curious to see where you go from here.
Omg I love his videos! The mixture of positivity and criticism, and being a total animation NERD, it's so refreshing! I know Helluva Boss has many flaws in it's writting, I hate and love Full Moon, why half of the episode is about the fucking cheerubs?!?! However, I cannot describe how much joy and happyness I feel when a new episode comes out! The animation, the music, the characters dynamic... these things neutralize all the issues I have with the show, but I still understand that they are still issues.
It has had that vibe for a lot of reviews, I enjoy what Helluva Boss is, but it def feels like a lot of people especially those who be making reviews wanted the show to be something else, and I don't blame them. The show teased 1 thing during its pilot and episode 1, but from episode 2 then especially episode 5 forward the focus on Blitz and his relationships quickly became the main plot and not just some fluff to the assassin work.
You know what, thank you for actually deciding to walk away instead of becoming increasingly bitter and hyper critical of the show. You basically realized you were close to going full Lily Orchard Steven Universe, and that that wouldn't be fun for yourself or us.
lowkey one of my greatest fears, was that I would become the Orchard of the Helluva Boss fandom. Don't think i would've gotten that far as i have enough friends to tell me when i'm out of line. But best not to tempt fate.
The thing that separates you from Lily is that you care about how you critique a show. Lily just shits out slop out of her mouth and calls it a valid “critique”.
@@SarcasticChorus tbf, you at least avoid accusing the writers of being bad people or that anything you don't vibe with personally is an objectively bad writing choice. Still, will absolutely miss these vids.
@@SarcasticChorushonestly I couldn't see you being like Lily Orchard just because you were frustrated with the episode because unlike lily orchard I feel like you wouldn't accuse someone of being a racist just because you don't like the show
I started to watch Sarcastic Chorus due to Helluva boss, but this is completely understandable. I personally feel like Helluva boss wants to put so much information in an episode, yet has subplots which could be removed. It’s just so packed up. And if the show just constantly depicts these problems, I guess it could be tiring to continue the critics. Though I really didn’t expect this to happen, I fully support you. I hope you can come back with Helluva boss when you feel the desire to share your thoughts.
Now that I think about it Stella and Andre aren't even that bad of people. Yeah they wanted to gain Stolas' wealth and fame but so did Stolas' dad......like the only reason Stella isn't the outright obvious protagonist of the series is because they gave her a Karen personality. Think about it: -Two rich people are married, they're both unhappy due to it being a political marriage. They can't leave the marriage because they had a daughter. -The husband commits in marriage adultery and neglects his daughter for a random goon(er) (permanently tarnishing the family's reputation) -The wife tries to kill the husband for the crime he did The husband is the protag and the wife is the villain...........
Reminder Viv compared Stella to Beatrice Horseman. You know, a character who despite being an abusive mother, wasn't cartoonishly evil and was a victim of her upbringing to explain, but not excuse, the things she did in adulthood. Meanwhile Stella is strangling puppies as a child...
@chaoticneutral7976 Stella doesn't compare to Beatrice. Beatrice is so wonderfully complex; especially in time's arrow. The BoJack team gave her character nuance during that episode, and that is something Helluva Boss would never give Stella.
@@ae1103 Yup. Also Viv has gone on record to say that Beatrice was one dimensional until season 4 where we got her backstory which is blatantly not true. When she calls Bojack after his book comes out, she actually acknowledges she was a bad mother. Even during her flashbacks before her backstory episodes, although she was cruel, she never felt like a caricature. She was abusive but she wasn't a mustache twirling villain laughing at Bojack's misery. Meanwhile, Viv is allergic to give Stella even an ounce of sympathy or depth because she doesn't want to risk Stolas being seen in any kind of bad light.
One of the first things that made me drop Viv's content around the time season two first premiered (didn't watch a thing after unhappy campers) was the way they trashed Stella's character. It's the perfect example of what it feels like she does with every character (especially her female ones) when they go against or don't like whichever male character she decides she's going to woobify.
I think the same thing as always happened. Vivziepop has always had this super ADHD way to build stories where she will set something super cool and interesting up, only to make random side plots/characters the main focus shortly after, as happened with Stolas in S2, and judt kinda throw the previous characters by the way side. OG fans of her stuff will remember that The Hazbin cast used to be side characters in Zoophobia for example. It's frustrating as a viewer but also weirdly interesting, don't know other media with this issue.
As someone with ADHD, even I have a hard time keeping up with the scenes and the story when everything happens so fast and randomly. She doesn't let the scenes flow naturally, or for charaters to have lenghty growth, or to establish a natural way for the characters to develop and become likeable. It feels like she first places down ingredients on the table and presents it to us, and we're like "yeah that's cool", and then just throws them all into a mixer in hopes that it would work out and taste good
@@carnage0685 True, Charlie in Zoophobia was a random sinner and might as well have been a new character. Every other main character was already there though. Even some of the secondary characters like Chery Bomb etc.
I unironically still enjoy Helluvaboss, but I also totally see and agree with all your critiques. It's kind of like how I still enjoy Sword Art Online, despite the shows MASSIVE problems. It's to the point, I appreciate what the writer was TRYING to do with it, while understanding that they were not skilled enough to properly execute it. I'm sure time constraints a really issue. I would love for this show to have half-again or double the number of episodes per season, but that's not how things worked out. That said, good luck on the next chapter of your channel and career!
This phenomenon of people still tolerably watched a media in a long term, even if the media itself has a lot of problems is known as the "Stock(holm)Show Syndrome"
I agree. As someone who cooks, I compare it to some seasoned asparagus I partly burned earlier; the burned parts were definitely unpleasant, but there was still enough good texture and flavor that there was no point in throwing it away. When Helluva Boss misses the mark, it tends to miss HARD - I was just about to drop the show after Full Moon and Apology Tour, and I really wish the show would pump the brakes for a while - but these last three episodes brought back my interest.
I think you’ve just summed up why I still love this show even with its massive and numerous flaws, it’s because I still wonderfully appreciate the work and message they’re trying to convey… even though it may seem incomplete to others…
Stolitz becoming more like a fanfiction couple and taking all the spotlight is what really dragged this show tbh, the shippers get what they want but it just makes it hard to watch sometimes. I end up wishing the worst for the characters because they always end up back together despite there being several points they should have split up
It should have been teased and toyed with not the sole focus. Focus should have been about I.M.P going after bigger and bigger game each episode and introducing key characters as disguised demons of importance and then failing some missions on occasion. Side Episodes could have been the team focusing on why they failed a mission and explore hell to confront said demon while getting back on track. From there Stolas should have played the role of a boss taking advantage of an employee til the he was forced to be more involved as I.M.P went up against threats from human religions/corporations and finally Heaven.
I'm pretty sure Vivzie confirmed that Stolitz is endgame, but she doesn't seem to know how to develop them as a couple without making it the major point of the show. I do agree that Blitz resolving his issues with Stolas would also help him grow as a character, but in terms of how it's handled it's just not working that way. It feels almost as if everything happens just because it's convenient for the story, and not because the charaters naturally come to those conclusions / feelings. I don't particularly ship them, I'm pretty neutral about it, but I do think Stolitz could've been so much more interesting had Vivzie handled the writing with more care and slow pacing. She has great ideas, and the team makes a wonderful job at executing them. But in terms of writing? She's definitely still very unexperienced, as most of her writing knowledge comes from back when she made comics on DeviantArt and whatnot. And her biggest strenghts are definitely her concepts and her music videos. She just needs to let someone else handle the writing, or at LEAST refine the script that she comes up with to make a more coherent story
@redpanda6497 yep! The situation with that show was honestly awful. It gave in too much into the shipping and stretching out the supposed ship to the point where nobody was happy or satisfied anymore. They tried to please the fans and this is what they got
The funny part is that the more you make a pairing akin to boiled chicken, the more the shippers will leave. Shippers like angst and peak emotional drama and flawed characters that love each other in a flawed way, not generic hallmark romance. Like, there is a reason why all the most loved\written about ships of all times are either not canon(so you make up the angst lol) or canon but very flawed or with BIG angsty scenes. Canon but boring is the death of shipping, and considering this comment section, I'm not alone in thinking this.
"wait for the writers to sort this out later" "wait for this issue to be addressed later" what do you mean I have to wait, 2 seasons in for this show to be engaging in any way.
this kind of feeling is the exact reason I stopped watching Helluva pretty early on. the disappointment of hinted nuances either being completely flattened, or outright ignored to force the plot to make sense. You got it perfectly, and it's so refreshing to see this sentiment of wanting to like something but being unable to ignore it. I hope you enjoy the time away from it, too.
I dropped it around mid season 1 if I well remember, and only kept myself informed with reviews every once in a while. I already highly disliked the character designs, but when the story and characters started to flatten and flop about, I was done lol Didn't even try to watch the final version of Hazbin, the dialogues would make me cringe into an early grave, but as far as I've seen, it has the same problems.
@@DeadKraken personally, I dropped it after the release of shooting stars, because all my expectations had me hinging on the m&ms confronting blitz on invading their privacy. Not only was that potential completely squandered, but we were met with more weird stolitz bait right off the bat, and the premise of octavia and loona spending a day away was sidelined to the very end for it, too. the release of the previous episode didn't follow up either, it still felt like a big slap in the face for tricking myself into liking it. nothing will be as crushing as realizing how disappointed it made me :/ but at least I can ramble about how much potential it could've had to friends
I accept that burnout happens. It sucks, but that's life. However, was Hazbin really supposed to be 24 episodes? Yikes. Man, just imagine how awesome that would have been. I'd even be ok with 20 episodes and a mid-season hiatus.
When I saw the announcement a few days ago my excitement quickly turned to "Well, this season is gonna be rushed to hell". Helluva is getting around 50 eps total meanwhile Hazbin is planning to add more songs than season one in season 2 with the same amount of of episodes?! I'll still watch it but my hopes are not high 😅
I heard people saying it was supposed to be 12. Still, 4 episodes make a LOT of diference. It's really a pity and really explains why the pacing is so fast
@@lexx1745 The truth is, I don't think any of us truly know how many episodes season one was originally supposed to have. The pitch bible only indicated 10 episodes, and Vivziepop has *never* confirmed the planned episode count. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a lot of contradictions and misinformation spread about what happened during the production of season one of Hazbin Hotel.
@@milenartmeire2588 I don't know where the idea that season one of Hazbin Hotel was supposed to have 12 episodes came from, as the pitch bible only indicated 9 to 10-ish episodes and at least 10 unproduced comics.
This episode actively made me go from mildly disliking Stolas to actively hating him The episode reeked of “oh woe is me” because Stolas realised his actions have consequences
Thanks for everything, I started watching this series and your breakdowns around the same time and I always considered it sorta part of the enjoyment, so much so that I kinda looked forward to it, but it's understandable, thanks for making this show more enjoyable in my eyes.
FINALLY! It's in words! You said it better than anyone else. The show sets up interesting and nuanced ideas and lessens their impact by playing it safe! I literally couldn't agree more. As much I grew to dislike this show due to Stolas not taking any accountability, it's refreshing to see someone criticize it in a way that's actually level-headed.
Gonna be honest: when I saw that you *consistently* had a video up about the newest Helluva Boss episode within 24 hours of the episode dropping, I thought "either SC is extremely quick on the draw, or he isn't sleeping." Sorry to hear the latter has been the case for you. You articulated a lot of my thoughts on Helluva Boss well in this video. I'm in a similar position where I want to like this show, in part because I think it's important to support independent animation, but the writing flaws keep cropping up (and in some cases, compounding). I mean this in the kindest way possible: at points, Helluva Boss is more like an animated sketchbook of OCs than a show trying to tell coherent stories. If that's what Spindle Horse wants to create, that's fine! But it's become clear that my expectations for the show, much like yours, have diverged strongly from the show's reality. For what it's worth, I've enjoyed a lot of your other videos (the Invincible ones stick out in my memory, as well as the ATLA and Fionna & Cake videos). I look forward to seeing what else you do. Take care.
Gonna be honest I found you due to helluva boss but I will be staying on your channel cause you have been so much more shows that I love. Keep up the good work!
My “let them cook” take is that if they do have the whole story planned out already, then it makes sense that stolitz was intended to be the main arc of season 2, not that they’ve abandoned the original premise (with the exception of Ozzie’s, season one doesn’t focus on them as the main plot). The place stolas and blitz are at by the finale seems stable enough that season 3 can focus on other things.
Honestly I do think that season three will focus back in on their job with Millie being pregnant which is massive considering her job, if Blitz does come back into come into contact with Barbie again it would be through their jobs so it makes sense that the next season will have more of a focus on their work.
This is honestly where I'm at with the ending of season 2. I mean, they didn't even hint at the Cherubs and DHORKS in the finale, so clearly they're meant for something else later. And considering they're working on Earth to reach hell partly because of the gang's fuckups with their main business, it only makes sense for them to be enemies of IMP insofar as they're an obstacle to the business aspect rather than personal enemies. Having DHORKS and the Cherubs be villains of season 3 only makes sense if IMP's actual assassination business was the focus of the season, but we shall see.
@@bladeinthesmint5995 Stolas himself also seems to work at IMP now so it's easier to include him alongside rest of the main cast in mission focused episodes (also means Loona can get way more screentime if their trading at the desk). Still probably gonna be a lot of Hell focused episodes (we better fucking see the Envy Ring finally) tho but with 15 maybe they can strike a better balance (and tbh one of the funniest things to me is that by and large in all my time in the fandom aside from Truth Seekers which is probably the most universally loved episode of the show for the most part the episodes that the fandom seemed to like the least.. were the mission focused episodes with the Hell focused episodes being the ones that got loads and loads of praise)
@@norsehorse84 We'll see them again, but like I don't think their gonna be the MAIN antagonist of a season. Their designed to be recurring villains but not Big Bads. the DHORKs I could see being a bigger deal, humans crossing into Hell would obviously be a big plot point but the Cherubs are kinda designed to mostly be silly side villains. The big Bads are Stella+Andre and I suppose Crimson plays the role of personal big bad to the MnMs (and you've got Striker with his rivalry with IMP being the gun for hire for any of these folks) and maybe like Mammon might step into that sort of role too.
I fully respect your opinion and stepping away from a show you used to enjoy isn't an easy thing for someone to do. I feel like i'm in the minority that actually enjoys S2 more than S1, but that comes to personal taste and not something that's objectively fact. I wish you the best of luck with other content 😁
I respect this comment because I think everyone else is expressing their opinions and yours is the first one that feels different to what everyone else is saying. I actually appreciate the mix of direction of the show and I don’t see any loss of passion for this show from the creators. Season one is an introduction to main characters and comedy and then second season is bout backstory and trauma and romance and third will resolve relationships and development of character growth and then last season will conclude the show with all that we grew to love about this show ending positively because everything else is revolved. There’s so much mix and the VA love this show because the OC characters represent their characters. I think season 3 especially will answer so many questions that season 2 introduced and the show has left a cliffhanger to season 3 which I find exciting. I’m not saying the show isn’t flawed but no show is perfect and no one ever agrees to everything. This show also is showing POV so much and that’s where the fans get to base an opinion. The fans are toxic, this show gets a bad rap unfortunately. Fans want something and complain when there is change. I respect Sarcastic Chorus losing interest in the show and moving on, it takes a lot of guts to do TH-cam for yourself and not for the content that ppl obsessively expect constantly. There is to much drama in the fan base. Helluva is one of the better shows in our generation and if y’all lose passion focus on other shows. I don’t sugar coat anything, but I enjoy this show and I think this show only going to improve
I personally enjoy season 2 more than season 1 too. I don't really like episodic adventure shows, I just can't get invested much in them so I'm very happy helluva boss turned into something more than murder shenanigans and silly adventures. It still tries to be kinda episodic in how they structure the episodes (like every episode is generally standalone, focused on something different with quite big time skips in between) which creates many issues with the writing imo but it still creates a better overall experience than if it had stayed as just episodic adventures. I hope that in the future since they plan to release season 3 episodes with more frequency they will try to make episodes less episodic in structure so the show will feel a lot better and events more nicely tied together
@@sovyenn i love this comment so much oh my gosh 😭 everyone keeps saying they wish they kept it as an episodic action based thing, but i think 99% of the viewer base would be gone if that *actually* happened
No cuz can we talk about the line Octavia dropped about Stolas's anit-depressants cuz that shit was actually VILE. I'm not even mad at her for it, I'm mad at the writers for thinking that was a good idea. My jaw legit dropped when I heard that cuz WTF?! There's so many ways to make her anger and pain sound sympathetic, even if it hurts to listen to, and THAT is what you land on?! Also, I'm on a rant now but I agree that the stuff in Mastermind didn't feel earned but I'd go further and say Sinsmas didn't feel earned either. It feels like they just saw the comments of Stolas's lack of consequences and decided to throw them in there with ship stuff to make everyone feel better.
like she is a teenager she should know what depression and anti-depressants are and well, she grew up in that house, the same house where Stella tried to organize a hit on her husband at the breakfast table. Octavia should not be surprised or even upset that her dad has depression.
@@fairystail1right? Octavia is 17 not 5. You mean to tell me she’s an angsty teenager who listens to depressing music and she doesn’t know how depression pills work?
Mate im gonna be honest, I would have dropped helluva boss a lot sooner, but i loved your videos so much i needed to watch the episode to have context. However last two episodes brought so little exitment, i just kept them on the backburner, as well as the reviews so that i can have some Sarcastic Chores goodness stored away. Guess its time to catch up one last time to have context for your vids. Very understandable youre dropping the show. I would've dropped years ago if it wasnt for you. Honestly, for me personaly you brought a lot more entertainment than it did in later season and thank you for that. Looking forward to all your other content mate!
Is it bad that when I saw that the Happy Pills were getting attention in the finale, i immediately thought about your “Full Moon” review with fans saying that Stolas acted out of character because of that 40 frame shot of Stolas running out of Happy Pills? No? 13:02 OH FUCK HE’S TALKING ABOUT IT
I remember at least once or twice seeing stolas taking the pills in prior episodes, seeing them pop back up in Sinsmas and being like "oh yeah that makes sense"
Mark my words: Hazbin will be the same. You know how I know? Because it's taken directly from Zoophobia. Zoophobia started with an interesting concept, and then got lost in a multitude of characters and subplots, between schools for outcast furries and wars between heaven and hell. It never ended and never got to say a damn thing. You know why? Because Vivziepop doesn't have a damn thing to say. This isn't a hate post for her, and I don't want people to bother her on social media after this, but it's the bitter truth. Vivzie feels the need to say something, but she has no idea what to say. So that's all that shines through in the end in her works: need. Need is the basis of ships. That's why Helluvaboss is the only product that goes forward "solid in its insolidity". Because it's a love story 50 shades of gray style, trash all the same.
I've seen people say they hate Via for what she said to Stolas and that's genuinely so dumb to me and I think that's a result of the softening issue you spoke about. Anyway,I look forward to whatever you chose to cover next
One of the headscratchers for me is I saw roasters from the blitzo x stolas x stolitz world war roast and most everyone agreed out of everyone that Via would have the most rights to criticize the relationship neglecting her as a kid, then when it happened, people splitroasted her despite wishing for it prior. Real headscratcher. Hell people asked for the stolas character to be punished, people seem to project their personal experiences, say flaky partners who didn't pay onto stolas, catfishers, etc, or consent ignorers or power dynamic abusers or abusive spouses or controlling spouses or manipulative spouses onto stolitz's blitzos/stolas. IT's a real landmine yet Via is a kid and yet i've still seen every blitz fan ghost the hospitalization of stolas scene and ghosting and just frame it as if Stolas's last encounter was sex. I mean it's in character and of ozzies. but Stolas's last interaction before full moon was being left to die in a hospital, trying to get blitzo a crystal for freedom, magically regrowing limbs. And being ghosted for months. And if there was at least a acknowledgement or a "well just being injured and left to die in a hospital doesn't mean the other person is entitled to care about them" kinda excuse. But no most blitz fans just start flaming and degrading you or completely intentionally ignoring the hospitalization as the last interaction for some reason and i have no idea why.
I dont hate her and i get why she is upset but she's upset about the wrong things gods damned, she's a teenager who is upset that her dad is taking anti-depressants. What teenager doesn't know about depression? And like Stella was so obvious with how much she hated Stolas that she was talking to his assassin at the breakfast table. This should not have been a surprise to Octavia at all.
@ Oh,I actually know a video you might like. It’s about Gravity Falls from the channel Hana Hyper-fixates and basically talks about the exact phenomenon you’re describing here
Another thing that just hit me. Why does Stella know that Stolas has been lending his book to Blitz. Why does Octavia. I wouldn't understand why he would tell Octavia but its incredibly unbelievably stupid that he would tell Stella. For something that he knew was extremely illegal he seemed not too worried about keeping it a secret
I've said it before and I'll say it again Stolitz is a SHIT pairing. Their relationship and suddenly dynamic makes zero sense. I still don't see how they have any relationship. In the last show, stolas even screams that he hates that he made this choice. He _regrets_ choosing blitzø. He didn't say i don't regret it, he said it was _the right thing to do_ . That's not the same thing. They don't work. They've never worked. Even when they got retconned with a childhood connection. Even when they made stolas more softboi. Even making Blitzø act utterly out of character suddenly being in love with a guy he could barely stand. It just is illogical. And frankly they aren't a couple that gives me feels. It's going to crash and burn if they wanna write it correctly. But we all know they are too scared to do that. So much of the show refuses to show people in _Hell_ as evil. They treat everyone like sweet buns. Its representation of the personifications of literal sins makes me cringe cause they make the sins out to be "just like normal people". Which begs the question, how did they become the embodiment of said sins in the first place if they are no different than the rest. Set aside mammon, everyone else acts like a normal. It _is_ so fanficky because it kiddie gloves all the characters cause heaven forbid anyone hates a character for being a bad person except for the very particular ones. I will still watch, but there's so much that keeps getting worse just to shoehorn in Stolas and Blitzø being a ✨️couple✨️
I dont think blitz couldnt stand stolas, it was more of a power dynamic issue as it said in the video but yea i would rather this pairing being maybe in late season 3 or mid season 4
I dont think blitz couldnt stand stolas, it was more of a power dynamic issue as it said in the video but yea i would rather this pairing being maybe in late season 3 or mid season 4
Most of the fans are gay Furries, are you honestly surprised by this direction? They chose the route of broken families, they should have had Blitz and Stolas work it out of their system then man up and fix their Families, Stella is a broken women who needed a strong man in her life having Stolas as a manchild panzy didn't help that one bit but she was loyal and determined to have an heir. But no he ruins it and makes things far worst on himself and has the nerve to wonder why Stella went from making fun of him to wanting him dead. I'm pretty sure if she watched Stolas handing her brother his big fat L she would have gotten wet and asked "So where was this man when I was laying eggs?" How things are going now Octavia is going to be a man hater, go full blown Lesbian and magically hook up with Loona despite her clearly being very hungry for men because of MODERN AUDIENCES!
This video reminded me of an Arcane quote from Season 2: "I think the cycle only ends when you find the will to walk away" - Silco. As sad I am to see your Helluva Boss reviews go, I'm happy for you that you're doing what you know it best for yourself. Thank you for all the time you've spent discussing this show (And Hazbin), and I'll continue to keep watching your channel for all the other wonderful things you make!
I will say though, a thing I have noticed is that, at a certain point, the view count does plateau at a certain level--and concerningly, it is plateauing at a lower and lower view count with each episode, meaning fewer people are coming back.
@@Anarcho-Bunnyist If you look at the view counts for the episodes--or really for any view count on videos--eventually the new views begin to slow down as people stop watching it as often--a "Plateau" if you will. It's more noticeable on older videos in the series, where they have topped out and don't really gain many new views after a few months. The issue comes with the fact that this plateau has been happening at lower counts each episode.
my biggest problem is that Stolas’ characterization is so laughably one note, he’s a well meaning noble. It feels like the writers never go hard on him the same way they do for blitz which just feels biased since sometimes there is a pretty understandable reason why what is essentially a peasant would be a dick to a noble, not to say blitz is right but it feels like the morality of the characters revolves around Stolas
Oh mannn... Every time there was new HB episode I was always waiting for your review... It's gonna be so weird to get used to not getting new Helluva content from you..... Ehhh... I'm glad there are still going to be other videos tho
Weird because I fell behind on the show after the middle of season 2, there was a large gap between episodes the next thing I knew it was almost a 9 months and a few episodes and shorts to catch up on.
@@reifuTD This is one of the reasons they said S3 will take longer to release, they want to keep a more consistent release schedule like the back half of Season 2 had (basically monthly episodes, a break with shorts in those months, back to monthly episodes). It is legitimately really hard to follow a show when the release schedule is like, this month we have an episode, now 6 months later we have another, now 3 months we have another, now 9 months etc etc. Basically they want to go into Season 3 with more than one episode actually mostly finished.
Vizie can't write. She has scenes and images she wants to get to and a really rough idea of how to get there and characters get flanderized and plot points get ignored in subservience to the cool parts. Time and time I'm let down by the show, but I'm too far in to quit. I need to know how it ends
I do NOT blame you. The show started out with a fantastic concept and execution, an adult show about morally ambiguous demons in hell. Awesome, right!? And then.... it turned into a poorly written teenage diary. Rushed, cringey, the characters lost any traits that originally made them hellish demons.... so many ideas and plots lost to the wind. Ive continued to watch it but every time im just so fucking disappointed. Sigh... Could have been great.
YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN A WRITER FOR THIS SHOW. You understand the flaws perfectly, I literally couldn't express it better myself. ive always had that lingering thought that the show was going downhill but not until the same episode you mentioned, with them at camp, did I start to notice the spiraling downwards trend of each episode. they introduce/tease an interesting conflict, only to take the easiest way possible out. its not interesting at all, theres no overarching narrative the SECOND we got blitz's backstory in a short 30second wrap up I knew the set ups that were promised in season 1 were just lies. its exactly like you said, manipulation. we know blitz has this sad backstory with his mom, and now they can use that to show a little jumpscare (HIS MOMS FACE MELTING FOR 5SECONDS THEN EVERYTHINGS BACK TO NORMAL LOL). its such a wasted opportunity to flesh out his character. the court scene was an embarrassment, its not even worth me analyzing it
I think this is a much more dignified way to handle it than the weirdos on Twitter do. Knowing a piece of media no longer serves your interests and moving away from it is sad, but freeing. I know I’ll be sticking around with your channel regardless.
13:09 EXACTLY!! I felt kinda manipulated by the show as I think they want us to feel bad for Stolas (and I fell for it tbh) because Octavia jumped to the conclusion that she caused his need for antidepressants not just noticing the way him and Stella interacted- it feels so odd and I hate the writing there specifically since I do love her as a character
It's been a slow decent into apathy for me. I loved the show through season 1, I didn't mind the rough and uneven parts, because I was being entertained overall. But I started falling off in season 2, because the show began to take itself way more seriously, and it's primary focus was Blitz-trauma and Stolitz. And I never cared for the ship. There were a few hits this season, somehow the Fizzerali 2 parter was awesome despjte speed running the arc. But overall, the show is making me tired to follow. Seeing the She Ra clips made me think, they did it right. By the end of season 3, I was convinced CatrAdora shouldn't happen. Then they took one and a half seasons deconstructing Catra and putting her and Adora where they needed to be for the ship to happen. Helluva Boss just wants to smash the two toxic messes together with bare minimum effort. Like concentrating their individual problems in a couple episodes addresses who bad they are as a couple, so they can move on to being a couple. I don't want to blame it on bad writing, because the show has a lot of good writing. But their pacing is awful, and they're too quick to resolve things.
Cause Brandon rogers input was less and less as the series went on Season 1(the best still) was mostly by his direction This show was so funny under him, but it stopped being as comedic around ep 7 which also when they start singing a lot more
I think the big caveat definitely is this series being made by people who grew up on the fanfic / tumblr / art-twitter portion of the internet. They're making a show drawing from the media they enjoyed, anyone could have seen a Vivzie production was going to be a glorified fanfic a mile away. It's about setting your expectations coming into something, something I learnt with Hazbin. I expected Hazbin to be a great animated thing that would stand on it's own but it's super clear it was made from the ground up to pop it's niche hardcore fandom and *NOT* be a standalone product. I come to Helluva to turn my brain off and have my queer heart attacked, not to witness a production that will stand the test of time and inspire people to create the great works of the future. It's a high budget Salad Fingers, not Akira.
Watching them dance I just wasn’t satisfied. Cool. They’re finally together and we never see Stolas being confronted for his flaws and his behavior. Stolas can never just do wrong it always feels like the show is always ready to make an excuse for him. Like the show is trying so hard to shove in our faces “did he mess up..? Yes.. but he’s a broken sad boy and this is why he messed up.” But Blitz is also a broken sad boy and we get a whole episode about how he’s a shitty person and his actions have consequences to him and the people he hurt. But not Stolas.. Stolas is just a sweet heart who made a itty bitty mistake and it actually isn’t his fault. Even when we finally have someone point out his mistakes (Octavia) it’s just treated as “a misunderstanding”
Just wanna say thank you again to all of you who've stuck with me and enjoyed me talking about this show and Stolitz.
This is not something I do lightly but I think its what I needed to do for me.
it's honestly for the best lol
if for the better then 🤝
Honestly For the Best For You to take this step. Wish You all the Best ❤
Honestly for the best!
Yep. Totally understand that.
Being a TH-camr Pros: Lets people turn their hobbies into actual playing jobs!
Being a TH-camr Cons: It turns people's hobbies into *jobs.*
It's actually content monetization, not TH-cam, though you aren't wrong.
@@KomoliRihyoh That's not a con of being a TH-camr specifically, that's a con of capitalism in general.
Pretty annoying that they also set up Loona having some connection with Octavia that could have helped smooth over the misunderstanding, only for them to do nothing with that when the story really could've used it.
Man, I feel like season 2 just had so many good ideas that got buried under the *drama* of the main ship.
On one hand part of me hopes there's still time to develop a Loona/Octavia friendship, but on the other it is annoying we got episodes like Unhappy Camper when we could have had some Loona/Octavia character development.
They 100% are gonna snowball this into making Octavia hate men and go full Lesbian with Loona for the sake of ships and completely ignore Loona being thirsty for men for 2 whole seasons.
It was messed up the moment they tried to make Stolas sympathetic and his wife an abusive bitch. Should've stayed as Stolas being an entitled blue blood literally trying to learn how to be a better person and his wife wanting him to stop dragging their nobility image through the mud even if it meant she literally tried to kill him over it.
@@pegeta they can't even ship Octavia with Loona. Loona is quite a tad bit older than Octavia.
@@gamerstreater9314also cause end goal was show cased.. Octavia and Loona as sisters.
This video sums up all my complaints and criticisms of the show perfectly. I hate how afraid it is of portraying more complex, flawed characters. Stolas, Asmodeus, and Fizz are perfect examples. They start off as morally ambiguous, only to later be portrayed as saints, innocent and perfect, like they’ve never done anything wrong.
They had the perfect blueprint for exploring more complex themes, but never truly embraced them, instead shoved under the rug and even in some ways retconned.
YOU SOLD YOUR LIFE FOR A THRUUUUST!
Apparently, season 3 would have a focus on Stella and expanding her character. She's meant to be a Beatrice Horseman type of character (they're the commenter's words and apparently Vivziepop's words, not mine), and the comment on Twitter said that in an interview, she said (though the comment paraphrased it), that "there's a reason Stella acts the way she does" and how "no one is strictly one dimensional." I don't know how Beatrice's arc was handled since it's been awhile since I watched and continued Bojack Horseman (not for any reason though, I just haven't continued yet), but I'm curious how the show will handle it since it also kind of feels like a too little, too late situation for Stella where it should've been presented sooner (fans have wanted that with Stella but it felt like the answer was clear that she wasn't a three dimensional character). The fantastic fanfiction Shadows Over Hell, which I keep mentioning here over and over (it's a friendship drama between Loona and Octavia and a lovecraftian horror epic that also slightly crosses over with Hazbin Hotel, especially later on), explored this in a similar way. It's a very well written story btw. It's very long, but it's fantastic and also gets intense when the horror stuff kicks in. The fanfiction has some outdated stuff btw like Lucifer's portrayal for instance. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I'm just letting you know.
I AGREE SO HARD I really hated what they did to their characters
Hazbin has the same problem unfortunately. I saw the leaks for Sir pentious backstory and I was so disappointed they picked the most sanitised and non complex version just so the audience sides with him and feels bad. Idk why Viv bothered setting a redemption story in HELL if none of the characters do bad things or are complex enough to redeem themselves in the first place.
@@MoonlightBrillanceThat's how I feel about both her shows. It doesn't make sense to me that Stolas cheating on his emotionally abusive wife is "wrong" as cheating is wrong, but Valentino can SA his workers because "Hell doesn't have morals". Or background characters can steal and no one bats and eye but when Blitzø steals it upsets the shopkeeper. Why is a shopkeeper upset at hell having a corrupt system? Viv keeps saying everything fucked up happens because it's hell but then turns around and shoves morals in randomly for drama.
It annoys me that we got 2 seasons of barely any Millie character development, and then how do they decide to develop her character? Pregnancy trope. Revealing a pregnancy for the sake of drama in a season finale just irks me. Like they only ever gave focus to Millie in how she relates to the men in the story. She loves her husband, she hates her ex, she sees Blitz as her best friend (which wasn’t really shown much before Ghost Fuckers), and in one single episode, Unhappy Campers, she suddenly has a thing about not feeling important- which they never touch on again, almost like it was just there so the plot could work.
She feels so surface level, and now it’s like the writers were like “how should we develop Millie’s character? Make her pregnant and not excited about it” like idk it just feels like they’re still tying her character to her relationships to men. Who is she when she’s alone??? Come on writers!!
I'll admit I didn't watch the episode, and at this point I probably won't. I cannot STAND pregnancy tropes, and it makes me feel terribly for Millie as a character. It just isn't necessary and could be used as an excuse to cut her from future episodes imo.
I’m scared she’s going to be extremely one note in season 3, sucks being a Millie fan bro…
I agree. I hate that trope so hard. And it ALWAYS makes the media worse. Scrubs. Bones. Big Bang Theory. If the start of the show doesn't have kids involved, shoving them on characters later on just feels cheap and lame unless it's the END of the show.
I see the pregnancy trope as a great way to further develop Millie and Moxxie's relationship with each other. Thus fr they were mostly just lovey-dovey but I'm interested in how they'll handle a situation like this, how they will grow even closer with an other hardship and fight off the obstacles together. Let's just hope they won't pull an other "Unhappy campers" considering Moxxie's behaviour
@wildbirbs9797we’ve had more than enough development on their relationship honestly. Almost every single episode apart from the one or two where they aren’t involved focuses on their relationship. We were all asking for an episode where they focus on her away from *their relationship* and just an episode where she is her own person. And then they pull the pregnancy trope, honestly I think it’s because they have no idea what to do with her character and this is the only thing they thought would add more effect lol.
It is a little disappointing to see you quit making helluva boss videos but at the end of the day, we watch these videos for you. I'm not in half the fandoms you talk about but I still think your analysis and shipping videos are interesting and worth the watch. Maybe some fans might be turned off to the idea but plenty of new ones will definitely come in too in the future. I wish you the best and good luck on your next video!
Facts-there are so many creators in this platform-good for him for choosing what he wants to do aside from what others want-it’s your channel,your responsibilities. Go SC!
Lowkey some of his videos get me to watch other shows XD
yess
Hear, hear!
The Visago critique is so on point. That was supposed to be Asmo's moment. It would have been a character solidifying moment for a side character that was built up for 1.5 seasons.
Asmodeus wouldn't have been able to speak up
@@SuperMandibleclawbut a random friend of the goetia could? Asmodeus has more power than Visago, and Visago literally went toe to toe with Stella's brother in front of Satan, who's on the same level as Asmodeus. He would've been able to speak up if we take the writing seriously.
Its vassago
I like Vassago’s energy, but this is exactly why I was so skeptical about him, this guy just came out of nowhere to come and support Stolas? It just didn’t click, so that criticism was agreeable.
@@gimmekromer1151 whoops, ty
Thank you for validating my feelings on the “Millie is pregnant” storyline. I HATE the development. I feel like every development Millie goes through is always tied to moxxie. Even the episodes that are about her aren’t really about her. Someone was arguing with me that ghostfckers had Millie development, but her development in that show was her supporting blitz. They even tried to tell me Bee had development, which I’m pretty sure she’s had 0 cuz she’s just been a background character
Me too, I absolutely detest the pregnancy trope no matter how it’s done. Just puts me off so much dude :/
I kinda hate how Viv said that since the show is mostly based of the the male characters so they won’t do much development on the female characters. I hate how at this point they should’ve just made Millie a background character if she can’t even get a good development as a character
I was kinda glad the pregnancy isn’t sunshine and rainbows to Millie given her job, but the way Viv still ties Millie’s character to the men around her is oof.. 💀
Eh her development was about her confronting her own issues and how she views herself actually and that's a continuation of what happened in Unhappy Campers.
@@Sunmustrise well she said that
and Hazbin was supposed to be for the women
but man Charlie and Vaggie did not get that much character development LOL
Like it feels as if Angel and Husk had more going on for them
It might just be, that women characters aren't her strength (for some reason... I mean i guess Loona has had some, but she kinda was on and off reverting until her dad nearly dies)
In terms of ghostfuckers, really what we got was Millie is the most mature grounded person in IMP, and had a background reveal on how they met
That episode was def more Blitz focused, we just got a better understanding of their friendship
In terms of her and the pregnancy
honestly we have such little time with her to really understand why she's upset over the pregnancy
Millie and Moxxie seemed to be pretty stable
and it's kinda implied that they're doing pretty good for imps
We haven't had much time to know her concerns around parenthood
and is it just going to be met with Moxxie being supportive as he always is "Dw Millie, we'll do it together"
like maybe if they better established the M&Ms beyond being couple goals
like when Millie was back at home, they coulda been like "Oh so when you thinking of having kids?"
and Millie could have said smth like "Me and Mox aren't ready yet" or give like an uncomfy look to Moxxie kinda hinting that she's at least not ready yet
which gets a distraction to pop up to divert convo
cause like honestly, we don't really know either of their motivations towards family building
we know that they love each other dearly and are loyal to IMP
we know Millie is a farmer girl and Moxxie likes the arts
but otherwise nothing else has been firmly established around this enough that can really ground Millie's reaction to the pregnancy test, and we can only really speculate "well hell is kinda shit for imps and shit overall"
Show really is a perfect example of Style over substance. Show looks cool, is acted well and the like, but the writing is painful when you look at it for more than a couple seconds.
I get your point
Agreed. I literally only watch Hazbin/Helluva because I love the edgy art style.
Eh most of the writing honestly isn't that bad.
I saw another comment admit maybe they just have to embrace that this is trashy media that they like but won't deny the quality (or lack thereof) of. If anything I hope fans and aspiring artists see the cool ideas and themes in HB/HH that have potential to be great but weren't utilized to their best ability and "yes, and" those ideas to make even better art.
I've considered both these shows to just be dumb fun quite a while ago.
This video really solidified for me that my favorite thing about Helluva Boss, was hearing someone else say what I was thinking. Hearing that I wasn't alone when something fell short or a moment was undeserved made me feel understood. I felt like the show was gaslighting me, literally doing tell don't show. If an episode didn't make me excited over a character or song, it would just leave me disappointed to apathetic.
Legitimately my first thought after finishing the season was "I can't wait for the Sarcastic Chorus video on this." I'm deeply sorry for that. Thank you for your time and sacrifice on these videos, and thank you for deciding to walk away. I think I'm going to keep watching, just to see how things pan out, and then move on as well. \m/,
This is exactly how I've always felt and currently do feel
I thought he’s still gonna watch the show? He’s just not gonna make vids on it
I was impressed by the second episode (Lululand) and have spent the rest of the series desperately wanting it to reach that level of entertainment again (It wasn't a masterpiece but it was legitimately good).
But yeah...in the most recent episode their visual expression of Octavia said "I miss my dad", and then they had her infodump a song about hating her dad and wanting to cut him out of her life. It really feels like a lot of drama and twists are getting dumped into our laps and given what I've seen they'll probably get resolved just as quickly and disappointingly as they appeared in the first place. Also a problem with the cast being idiots who struggle to think or act outside of their predetermined character quirks (unless the show demands that they suddenly pull a 180 turn on their personality out of nowhere). It just feels like there's some legit promise for good fun in this series that gets undermined by a long list of basic writing mistakes (telling instead of showing, flanderized characters, a lack of wit, etc.) and obligatory padding (songs, drama, gags, etc.).
@@carnage0685
I meant to be responding to a part in the video where he mentioned that he wants us to keep watching as well, I didn't mean to imply that he would or should stop watching. Sorry for the confusion!
@@MrRawrCEO
Same here! I loved robo fizz and felt like there were some incredibly cool ideas! The only episode that I liked as much was S1E7, because Fizz again and House of Asmodeus being such a great song. But honestly after that, I can't say there's really too many episodes that I enjoyed as much. There are some that get close, but I'm just kinda recognizing that the show format isn't for me. It had all of the right pieces, it just can't put them together. I'm honestly just really turned off from Viv as a story teller
I can't say I didn't see this coming, but it's still a surprise. But I'd much rather that you drop it and move on to things you actually care about than forcing yourself to keep up something you no longer enjoy. I'll miss your reviews, but I'll still look forward to whatever you make in the future.
agreed, reviews with passion are better to watch in general
@chosenuwu I could tell with each video he was losing more enthusiasm. It's like he said: it started with Unhappy Campers and he never completely recovered from it. I'm honestly surprised he didn't stop sooner.
agreed
Truly wish more people had the integrity to do this. In a world where shows are cancelled before many have even heard of them, I’d rather people with platforms spend their limited free time putting spotlights on what they enjoy. ESPECIALLY if it doesn’t have as much any eyes on them as Vivziepop has on her work now.
the best part of watching helluva boss was always getting to hear your thoughts on every little thing about it😔 it's sad to see you're stopping, but also, good for you!
I was happy to stop watching in season 1, this channel was way better then actually watching the show
@harley4683 truee
Yeah, sometimes when Helluva or Hazbin did something I hated I’d get kinda excited to see this channels take on it, good or bad. Gonna miss these vids
@@harley4683trueeeee
Agreed, with the last 3 episodes before Sinsmas, waiting for a review from sarcastic chorus was more exciting than getting the actual episodes. I'm glad that they made this video addressing this and came to realize their true thoughts on doing this content for Helluva Boss. I wish them the best.
I think having Stella be an unlikable, one-dimensional villain is a major copout by the writers. It completely absolves Stolas of guilt even though he did cheat on her. The fact that they were in an arranged marriage inherently makes their relationship messy, and Stolas of course has the right to pursue true love, but Stella's side of the situation would be so much more compelling if she were written like a real person.
I was a little disappointed, like the stolas babying keeps getting worse
Weirdly enough, her character was what ruined the show for me. She's not a character. She's a plot device to make stolas miserable and make him seem justified in his actions
The moment her brother was introduced, I knew it was GG for Stella's character. Stella lost her role as a potential antagonist, BC Viv, and her writers suck at writing women...
And Viv has the gall to compare her with Beatrice Horseman. Girl, you couldn't write something half as good even if your life would depend on it
@@DarkCircles698
Honestly yeah, her brother really killed whatever potential Stella had left.
Since they were hellbent on her being a cartoonishly evil villain with no nuance, maybe she at least could have been a fun overarching threat.
But no, her brother is here to cover that while establishing Stella is actually dumb as bricks and can’t do anything effectively aside from be hot.
She’s such a hate sink, she can’t even have positive traits that would help her be more effectively dangerous like being competent.
Now she’s just going to be even more of a plot device than she already was as her being a dumbass will see her just be used to fill in plot holes and give the protagonists free advantages, like why it took two seasons for her to spill that Stolas is breaking the law.
Stolas wouldve been a much better character if he actually was an evil mastermind who came to realize he was actually falling in love with blitz.
That or if the story didn't treat him as near infallible. Sure he wasn't exactly bailed out of every situation but they seem to treat him like "He means well" rather than taking a real stab at him. The whole scene with his argument with Via felt like she was the one in the wrong. Let him be an actual bad parent and not a father trying his best and getting nothing in return.
I would say no just that ruins the original story no offence
Or he could have been worse, we don't know
@jessicarattray6976 i dont think so, stolas was treated poorly as a character. I think people forget the context is that the story is based in hell and having moderate good people there doesnt make sense. How is moxxi a better villain in making then stolas? You know what i mean? Or like how is he treated as this super genius but still gets captured by striker and out played by vasago and her sister? He shouldve been a big bad that had an arrangement with blits. Not just anxiety ridden love making with a bunch of drama.
That would be so amazing ughhhhhh
I am not going to pretend to not be upset about this news, but I will absolutely support your choice of prioritizing yourself. I will be seeing what the channel has to offer in the future, as my subscription with notifications switched in was never based on Helluva-verse content. I hope this is a renaissance for this channel and for you in the best possiblr ways!
What this person said! Commenting for the algorithm! We support you, man!
Same.
I still really like his other videos, so I'll be sticking around for more. 👍
@ I personally have my fingers crossed for some new sarcastic summaries and anime shipping videos!
Same bro, I still think their is more content for him to cover.
Agreed. I (unsurprisingly) started watching for Helluva-verse content but I still plan on sticking around now, I still watch and enjoy his other reviews and this won't change that
Am I the only one who thought that Octavia would start self-medicating with Stolas's happy pills when she found them.
Nah, I thought that too
Yeah I had thought for a small second too😅😅
Same
I thought she was gonna take them
Thought that too
12:04 This is why I respect Bojack Horseman so much. The characters have flaws, and the show isn’t afraid to address them and show their characters in an understandably morally gray light, or in Bojack case, outright bad light. Bojack doesn’t do things to try and soften the blow or make people like the characters more.
Literally I have 2 reasons to keep watching the show at this point. 1) I like the voice actors, especially Brandon Rogers and Ed Bosco, and I’m willing to keep watching it to hear them. 2) They mentioned Octavia is asexual, and as an asexual I *really* want to know how they handle it. There are barely any ace characters in media, and with how sex-heavy Helluva Boss is I want to know if they threw her sexuality in there to actually do something with it, or just made her asexual to just claim to have an ace character.
@@LyndsayChan they have Alastor as ace aro in the other show. going off his example, you can see his sexuality reflected in the way he interacts with others, so i don't think Octavia is just for representation sake. hoping this is the case, anyways.
Ironic since Vivziepop is actually a huge fan of that show.
12:31 I wish Millie’s issue stemmed from IMP still being in the red financially, after Blitzø spent like all of their pension. That would’ve been nice continuity imo.
Oh I swear it better be the main reason she's not sure what to do.
Omg yes
This problem shouldn't exist either, especially since they are friends with a lot of rich people.
@samyl9579 like who?
I think she's worried
Cuz
1. all women are worried when they suddenly get a kid,
2. I don't think she's ever talked to moxxie about children
3. They live dangerous lives and are enemies of many ppl
Keep moving forward homie ✊✊
Hey, Markis!!
Goob
W markis FR 🤣😂👏👌🎉
Not Markis
did your son travel back in time to meet you and take you to the future or something
Its really funny that the whole premise of "I.M.P" and contract killing just got sidelined into shorts which is fun in its own way but just feels like it got tact on.
From what I read, there won't be anymore shorts either.
@spinningtornado4543
Um yes we will be more shorts.
Vivziepop explained that because season 3 will be having 15 episodes, they'll be a bit of a hiatus until season 3 starts. She wants somewhat shorter gaps in between episodes I'd imagine around 1 to 2 months apart rather than 3 to 4 months apart.
She has confirmed during the hiatus period multiple shorts are going to be released from now until season 3 starts.
I reckon due to season 3 still being in production the first episode will be released between October/November.
But its a great idea on Vivziepop's part too release multiple shorts as it will make the wait for season 3 a lot more bareable and is definitely better than getting nothing at all.
If I had a nickel for every time VivziePop threw away the pitch of a show, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't much but weird it happened twice!
Because that's not the premise. The premise is the character interactions and relationships. That's just a thing they also do.
@AeonKnigh432 no come on now. The ORIGINAL PREMISE of the show was the group of imps going around murking people. Now it's about the relationships between characters.
11:49 yeah honestly that is my biggest issue with the show is that they kind of just justify Stolas cheating by the fact that Stella is mean.. I kinda hope it’s some point to give like a backstory on Stella episode to kind of make her a little more three-dimensional and make the situation a little more complex. I am also a child of divorce through cheating so that’s also part of why it bothers me so much
Lets be real here, Stella isnt gonna be made three dimensional
she is a hate sink, and a pretty poorly thought out one.
She doesnt even have any relationship with her daughter in the show (there might be one but we just dont see it)
I feel like any character she gets after this point will just be a retroactive band-aid.
If making her an actual character that gave this situation some complexity actually mattered to Vivzie, she would have done it by now.
I think a good way to make Stella complex is actually making her a better parent to Octavia than Stolas was, therefore opening Stolas’s eyes to how much he had been neglecting Octavia. But I doubt they will go down this route
It was an arranged marriage. You can't cheat if you never agreed to the relationship in the first place imo
i started losing faith in the direction of helluvas story when unhappy campers came out. Totally agree about Vassago too. Him speaking out in defense of Stolas would of made so much more sense if we had that initial connection between the two, the writers could of introduced him to us when we got the backstory of how Stolas and Blitz met as kids. Vassago could of been Stolas' only other "friend" or maybe they could of introed him helping Stolas with his studies as young adults. Ozzie having little to do with the trial blew my mind, Blitz literally has one of his crystals on his wrist and it was never brought into question?! Having Satan rush the trial honestly felt like a self insert for the writers wanting it done as quickly as possible so they could fit everything in instead of making it an additional episode if they had to.
Or, hell, as a means of character efficiency, follow Sarcastic Chorus' advice and cut Vassago entirely and use another character who already had that sort of set-up to conceivably help Stolas more in the trial.
Asmodeus.
Stolas and Blitz already helped him out during Oops and the Mammon episode - wouldn't it be perfect payoff if Asmodeus had a bigger role in Mastermind openly helping them out more instead of this new guy we've never heard of before who undermines a lot of the stuff they tried setting up with Stolas earlier in the season?
Vivziepop's character bloat problem is already approaching RWBY levels of bloat; the show would genuinely benefit from some tighter character efficiency.
I actually genuinely liked Vassago but I agree that character bloat and sidelining Asmodeus (who has a far better reason to intervene) are legitimate criticisms.
COMPLETELY agree about the campers episode. That one had me questioning my life decisions...
Giben how old aristocracy tends to work, children often grow up extremely sheltered (butlers, nannies, few friends, etc) and only after a certain age will they start to make friendly alliences with other nobles and their children. The way I look at it is that Vosago likely was a friend from Stolas' teenage years or at least from after his childhood with Blitz. I understand the rushed feeling tbh, but for me it didn't bother me as much.
@@RockinAfr0 That really doesn’t help the show’s case.
I hate how Stella and Stolas' presences weren't demanded. I hate how they didn't do the trial realistically, and I hate how nobody called out the stupid excuses Elsa from Frozen made.
It feels so lazy with the whole "we can't kill you, since you're royalty, but we still need to punish you". They just want to make Stolas the biggest victim ever so Blitzo can take care of him and they can become every shipper's dream couple or whatever. It's so annoying, because they never elaborated on why Blitzo likes Stolas, where it began, etc. We've only seen a bit of Stolas' Disney Princess perspective of love at first sight. I also think it's cringe that they had to do the whole "they're meant to be" shit with "oh btw, they were childhood besties for one day and it was love at first sight". So annoying-that felt so forced.
11:59 - "...only for the story to pick the least challenging option possible so the two never look too bad."
This is admittedly wildly off-topic, but when I heard you say that, the name "Tyrion" involuntarily popped into my head.
..... not intentional but I think Lindsay Ellis said something similar about Tyrion and Jon in one of her videos
@@SarcasticChorus Yeah, I didn't think it was meant to be intentional. It's just interesting how such vastly different shows can run into similar issues. Helluva Boss isn't anywhere near the shitshow late GoT was, but it does have similar issues.
A part of me wonders if this is true for lapis lazuli lol.
@@Barakongod I hate that character
Oh god... if Season 3 has Stolas strangle Stella in bed and then goes "I'm sorry...", I'm calling time of death right there.
You really hit it on the head with the “softening” thing.
This show is *desperate* to avoid treating Stolas with anything but the softest kid gloves and it makes it impossible to get invested in them.
Yep like hes never in danger at all which makes it so boring while as example in JJK, the good guys including Gojo were always in danger and Gojo even had to pay twice for it, as well as Nanami dying during Shibuya and many more good guys dying during Culling Games. But in HB? no one from the cast will ever be in danger, not even the villains, like look at Striker. Dude got squahsed by a statue and also burnt into hellfire but has only a few scares.
And now even Blitz has gone soft and cancels missions only bc he saw a happy couple and mirrored Stolas and himself in it. Like cmon Blitz you are a demon, you shouldnt care and get the job done! Loona shouldve jumped the target like she wanted to. Taking Millie out here since she had mood swings.
That and also the complete simplifications and utter regression of everyone who opposes him.
Stella? Went from being reasonably angry for being cheated on to trying to kill him to the show literally saying she was Evil since Day 1.
Andrealphlus? Introduced to be an overarching Main Villain who quite literally has no effective plan relying heavily on luck and circumstances.
Striker? Went from being a potential independent threat to literally being both Crimson and the Goetia's lackey for any of their plans.
He got so woobified it made me like stolitz less if I'm honest lol the messy and toxic dynamic sounded way more interesting to me than this whumpfest
@@redboxgamingyt3452goodness gracious why can helluva boss fans never be happy
@@velvetroses5752they might be happier if the show was better.
I feel like Vivz is simply afraid of including REAL conflict in her show. There is build-up, foreshadowing, teasing, subtle ideas... and then it feels like she just backs out?
It's like the characters want to be flawed, but aren't allowed to. Only to the degree which is "forgivable" and "understandable", where it's all just a misunderstanding or backstory parts are later revealed in favor for the main characters. I feel like we are trying to write grey characters, but in the end still just end up with black and white.
Agreed.
I've always had this feeling ever since it was revealed that Blitz had caused the fire at the circus purely by accident, instead of having done it intentionally as a sort of revenge and having paid the price by losing his mother and hurting Fizz.
I was extremely against this.
Same story with Stolas and Stella.
Stella became an irredeemable gorgeous narcisist, while Stolas was once more the poor victim of the system.
Safest.
Route.
Possible.
Honestly, I respect you so much for this.
I've seen countless content creators, for this show and others, stick with a property and do nothing but complain about every aspect of it. While they often have valid points to make, for some of them, you can just feel the soullessness in their reviews and get the feeling that they're only doing it for the views or to start controversy or just be negative for the sake of being negative.
While I'm just a little sad to see u leave the show, I'm happier that you're prioritizing ur own mental health and happy that you won't become yet another content creator that milks the negativity for a show for views.
I look forward to other reviews and analyses from you of other media you hopefully enjoy talking about!
11:05 I wasn’t against this shift at first but I feel like it leaned WAY too hard into the relationship drama. It got to a point where I was super excited whenever the plot was the main focus which was weird because I’ve always found character dynamics to be my favourite part of a show
I agree. It’s mainly the way Vizie made a complete shift towards relationship drama and not showing how relationships can affect the business (except for 2 or 3 episodes). In HB’s case relationships should support the plot instead of being the main focus. In my opinion at least
Same ,I was really interested on how it would go ,but honestly, everything since that one episode were they went to the human world to Hollywood, I noticed it wasn't for me ,stopped after viz and blitz solved their issues ,it just didn't entertain me anymore ,I didn't find myself laughing or waiting for a new episode anymore, then hazben aired and that was what Broke the camels back ,unfollowed vivzipop,and moved on
@@kicks4235 If the writing team somehow justifies the notion that having a baby won't impact the dynamics of the job these people do or the way they do it and time they can give to it, I think I might be done too.
@@gregvs.theworld451I heard more people will write season 4
Well for me this is her last chance with this relationship shi like we finally have stolas with blitz plz don't fuc this up or I will drop the show they don't even have to date they can be Fwb or jus friends for all I care if they leave each other over sum bull shi viz pulled out of no where I will drop the show also she better not f up Millie pregnancy either she has a child or aborts it if she aborts it let us know early don't have this pregnancy go on for a season and she ends not even having the child
I think I get it. The only time I ever hated listening to rock & roll music was when I took a college course where I had to analyze it and write papers on it. Thanks for the videos you've done to this point and best of luck on your future endeavors.
For me it was books. I love reading, but classes where I was forced to read a book and try to find just every hypothetically symbolic word and overanalyze it to death? Not very fun.
@@ThatRPGuywithtoomanyOCs Why do classes do that?? They make reading seem like a chore rather than something fun to wrap your brain around?
@@ThatRPGuywithtoomanyOCs I can relate to this. Always excited to finally read Frankenstein's Monster. Had to do it for class, hated the story, cheated and read cliffnotes to write the paper and actually passed. Still have no interest in reading it.
@@lifeisadrag7705 Because it's intended for people who like doing that, but many times the people who end up doing it don't enjoy it.
@@ThatRPGuywithtoomanyOCs That was me, and then I’d get invested in the book just as we were winding down and preparing to start a new one.
For a show apparently inspired by Bojack Horseman, it lacks everything that made Bojack good
edit/ bad phrasing,
for a show apparently inspired by Bojack Horseman, it lacks the complexity in characters that Bojack does much better - the characters here are often as deep as a puddle or are so surface level that it's unbearable to try and watch (especially if you watch any actual good animated content, you realize how bad the writing on this show actually is)
Wait, it was? Can‘t find nothing on that.
Feels like at the start it was going a bit that direction
@Heisen_burger-dude Viv herself has made the comparison, can't pinpoint you to where but it shouldn't take much searching I think
@ElleeDraws I can’t find the tweet but the song writer Sam Haft calls it “queer bojack horseman”
Gay bojack Horseman but Bojack has a gun and attempts to kill todd and princess caroline while sober while also in a gay romance.
I honestly feel like people remember Bojack being a lot better than it is. Which might be prophetic for Helluva Boss lol
I can totally understand your feelings about the current helluva boss and why you are droping it, this actually happened to me but with a webtoon called Lore Olympus. I never droped it, but at one point i got so sick of the way the plot protected the two main characters that i almost did it and i just finished it because at that point i had spend years reading it and i felt that i had to see how it ended. It didn't help that LO had a masive Anti-LO following and a LOT of their critics were valid, very similar to Helluva Boss.
Honestly, good for you! You shouldn't force yourself to keep watching the show if don't vibe with it anymore. I will miss your reviews but walking away from it will be for the best for your mental health.
NO because your comment about Lore Olympus is so true! The massive hate towards it also almost turned me off. But I also stuck through and finished it. And yes the critiques are valid! Same with Helluva Boss, I still find some enjoyment in it, but the critiques are valid!
I think their was a Fan made Re-Imagining of it that was a response from the feedback/criticism to the original, and uses it as a bases to answer the problems thus making their own version itself better from the original.
Another thing that the fan made Re-Imagining of Lore Olympus reminded me of is a "parody" game called Snoot Game, infact helluva boss should have the same Re-Imagined treatment just like Snoot Game.
As someone who got into LO late. you aren't wrong on the similar hatedoms.
Lore Olympus mention! I still haven’t finished it because I was also fed up with the storyline and characters 😭
@@MasterBotttle i think it was called Lore Rekindled or something like that.
Man frees himself congratulations
He did it. He is free
Man free. life good.
Your line about how they keep softening the blows has been what l've been feeling about this show for so long. Because actually showing accountability would have made the show better.
It's same issue I had with Steven universe as a show, it's like no one is the bad guy, and instead of handling the issues let's just sing colorful songs about are feelings.
@@MichelangeloVA yup it's Steven Universe all over again
@@MichelangeloVA The difference is that Steven Universe is a show for children and aimed at children whereas Helluva Boss won't let you forget that it's for "adults" by having the characters say fuck every other sentence.
@@MichelangeloVA did we watch the same show or did you guys just watch lily orchards video? (yap incoming)
SU has few villains in the sense of proper 'Stella' villains because it's a show centered around trauma, change & forgiveness. it handles *most* of its characters/plot points alright, i.e the title characters, the main characters parents, those two side characters, all feel like people. Not the best ever and not my cup of tea, but its ok.
With HB you either get evil screaming lady or soft boy uwu victim owl where his only issue is how he treats his daughter, nevermind his dynamic with blizto or his earlier characterization as a whole. This is speaking personally, but I also find it hard to care about the character's trauma with the amount of 'jokes' ruining the tone and the violence they do on a regular basis. I know its hell and its their jobs but you'd think any other show would pick up on how the characters murdered a beach full of people to at least imply something about the characters with that beyond them being 'so edgy, so cool'.
It feels like the 'your honor i know he killed a bus full of people but hes just a little guy' meme taken seriously, and also an entire show.
"But sometimes... You gotta just walk away..." Is the best thing I've ever heard about anything like this before. He's not a hater but he just doesn't like how it's going. Just leaving it at this was the safest move, bro
Can't say I'm surprised, but still it's gonna be weird to not see you talk about stolitz again. Me personally, I've always seen Helluva Boss as a passion project with someone's OCs. Like, Vassago reads so much like that one OC who you like the design of so much you HAVE to put him in, when in reality he REALLY should not be there. "Kill your darlings" is an advice that Helluva Boss (and hellaverse in general) suffers the most from not following and in this essay I will-
That’s literally what Vassago was. He shows up in Hazbin Hotel’s pilot during the Alastor backstory bit.
No no king, go on... Speak your truth.
I like vassago and his design but is just too hyped for a character that appeared once and wasn't even mentioned beforehand, why not use the characters that already existed and give them more to do, like asmodeous
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who thought Vassago was a pointless character in Mastermind. And that the Stolitz moments in the last two episodes felt “fan fiction ish”
Yeah, I agree. That kiss with them falling down, confirmed it. Then in the end it just seems so distantly lost between them. 😢
It feels like Vassago was just there to set up the character for later and having him be more neutral in the story would have been much better than he’s shown.
I don’t mind the kiss, it felt very driven by adrenaline which is emphasised with the one sided hug at the end of the episode. The criticism is still valid though
@@sllushiiistolas feels sad and when you are sad you don’t feel hugging people
He was a one-off side character and the only reason anyone would pay any attention to him is because they've spent the last 6 months freaking out over THE LORE and trying to invent a novel-length backstory for him.
@ actually viv has said that he’ll be returning in season 3
It really is quite alien to me that a lot of the (male) characters in helluva boss were bent over backwards to be fully justified. I really didn't need to know that Stolas was a good guy all along when the fun was that he was abusing his power to get a relationship, even if he started to truly believe in that relationship. Worse is it came at the cost of all the people these characters hurt being flattened.
I mean i feel like i was more a defender than most but as they say, a house built on sand will have it's roots frayed away. Say what you want about Stolitz and im actually happy it's getting healthier for my end, but i think like a huge complication is that a huge portion of the fanbase sends out mixed messages. Like they make some of the most r34 out there yet demand pure and chaste relationships, yet also complain that so and so character isn't having !@#! with their oc or that if Loona dates Tex then they must kill tex to give their fictional roleplay oc more fictional stuff.
It's a 18+ aimed fandom attracting horny yet often immature 16+ tumblr teens that glorified violence to get their way which like kinda naturally blended into deth thets murder toddlers giving deth thets from skibidi toilet pfps over baldi x skibidi toilet x loona r34 whil saying they were 6.
It's just a very awkward internet moment.
@@Notyouraveragename what the sigma
@@Notyouraveragenamengl this sounds really stupid yo me bcs the show isnt written for the fandom (or at least it shouldnt be) and the story shouldnt be written in response to them no matter what signals they send
Honestly, when we saw the sneak peek for Barbiewiers episode, I thought the plot was going to be something like her living among the humans in her disguise. Having built a whole new life for herself, where no one knew her. Aaaand then blitzo showed up with his group to kill her boyfriend/husband.
i’d take that over unhappy campers
I thought of a similar premise for this episode and was excited for what was in store, only to be absolutely gutted when it turned out to be basically nothing. Major letdown.
Me too!
I thought I was the only one who thought this??😱
That would've been so good!!!
Both helluva boss and Hazbin hotel have the same problems a lot original anime have.
They have too many ideas and no strong structure.
Honestly i think you could fix a lot of problems with the shows if you had an editor working with Vizzy so they can better structure their ideas.
Because there are good scenes, good moments, but the narrative as a whole is weak.
Funny enough this is exactly how I felt reading JJK. It started off with such a strong premise but then it essentially became "All hype, terrible story."
Like yeah watching a character get a one up or win against a character you want desperately to fall is cool and all but doesn't exactly compliment the story.
And trust me, Helluva Boss is exactly on this train wreck. The recent episode essentially prove that along with the fate of Adam in Hazbin Hotel.
I definitely agree to these points. The original premise of both shows, and overall concepts get lost in the weeds because it switches focus to other things (which is fine) and then it half heartedly tries to circle back to square 1. The shows are not quite how they are from beginning to end from a conceptual standpoint.
I agree. A co writer or editor would made a good difference, someone to say "hey, this is a serious/cute moment, the dialogue definitely don't need a swearing" or adding a more solid structure.
With Hazbin Hotel, it definitely felt like they crammed every single idea they had into 8 episodes and the overall story is just a complete mess because of it. On top of that, each episode is around 20 minutes long, so it feels like none of the concepts the show presented got any time to breath because it's all going at a breakneck speed.
@@redboxgamingyt3452 as certified JJK glazer i have to defend it.
JJK has more in common with sports manga and martial arts manga like Blue Lock and Hajime no Ippo than traditional Shonen Manga. Here the narrative is told through the direct clash of personalities rather than a traditional narrative setup.
Combat, skill and personal expresion becomes characterization and the clash between fighters become the story, again i come back to Hajime no Ippo, where story of each match its born when you clash personalities in the ring.
Certainly not for everyone and JJK clearly has some faults of its own, but its clearly more than just hype.
I love Helluva boss but I agree on most of your statements in this video. I love ships and I think that may be the biggest reason that I’m still interested in the show, but I think my love may die down in season three. I feel like the writers have run out of ideas and that there is no possible way to properly redeem Stolas and Blitz without it seeming rushed. Like Millie getting pregnant? Shows always start to go downhill after a character gets pregnant, I guess it could not be the case with Helluva boss but I’m expecting it.
It’s a slow burn I think thats why they weren’t a couple in season 1 and their communication skills aren’t great . We will see stellas backstory in season 3 and more people will write season 4
I'm with you there. As much as I loved the last episode, I've got a bad feeling that Season 3 is going to struggle to find good storylines.
I mean the show has already been planned out to the end so they're not gonna run out of ideas....
Not with fairly odd parents LMAO
the millie being pregnant plot has potential imo. she and her husband are hired assassins, so it has potential to explore more how she feels about having such a new, big responsibility on top of such a life-threatening job. but honestly, im not holding my breath. really like this show, but the writing still has a long way in improvement.
The show was better when it didn't focus on Stolitz.
It sacrificed actual character growth (especially of side characters) to build up a ship that is deeply flawed/executed in the worst way possible.
Now I get instantly annoyed when Blitz and Stolas are on screen.
It also forgot about the main plot of the show which is they are assassins
They also started focusing on the song aspect WAY too much. They tried to create bangers, but they really fell flat and unnecessary in most episodes, in my opinion :p
@@withmymindandmyimagination844 One half of the Season 2 songs felt like the writers just quickly came up with something to keep the limiting "1 song per episode" rule, with a few exceptions, the other half is grand, dramatic Stolas songs about the same topic with similar visuals. I can't even tell them apart. Compare them to You'll be ok, Immediete murder professionals, Moxxie's bad trip or House of Asmodeous, even Verosika's song. They were memorable, necessary to the story and had an identity.
Maybe thats why Exes and oohs, Oops and Ghostf*ckers were my favorites cuz they werent about Stolitz romance.
Same...that's why i stopped watching it😢
4:10 honestly it would even be weird for big fans of Helluva Boss as a Show to like unhappy Campers. There were already pretty mediocre episodes in Helluva Boss like "Seeing Stars" and the Cherubs Episode but Unhappy Campers didnt release, it escaped
Glad to see someone mention the cherubs episode. People like to hype up all of season 1 but forget that cherubs was a downright awful season 1 episode. I hate it so much and that's coming from me who very much enjoys most episodes for at least a few reasons. Cherubs has nothing that I like. Unhappy Campers just kinda happened although I hated Moxxie in it, cherubs was pain to get through. Unlikeable forgettable characters, dumb forgettable plot and so on.
@maltemejlstrup4746 yeah, outside of some jokes which i liked i feel pretty much the same about Cherubs. Its just the definition of absolutely forgettable. You could start a rewatch of HB and skip it entirely and you literally wouldnt miss out on a single important detail for the ongoing plot or character Developement
Yes, every single time i rewatch the show I skip cherubs and unhappy campers
@@oberweeb6584honestly kinda felt like the only reason the cherubs were in it at all was just to keep people interested in what heaven is up to since the rest of the show has nothing to do with heaven at all
oh yea, I am a big HB fan, I don't have issues with the direction and majority of the writing but Cherub and Unhappy Campers were dreadful to watch. I like Seeing Stars much more now than I did upon release.
personally the millie pregnancy plot made me instantly want to drop the show. i do not feel like they can pull that tone off.
I knew Millie was going to be pregnant because she’s married and I remember 1 year ago few people said Millie should be pregnant
It's just so oddly timed to do that now. It feels like there's too many loose ends to be throwing more unfinished storylines into the mix.
Same. As soon as 1, Via brought up the pills (softening Stolas's fault) and 2, Millie pregnancy reveal I just...idk lost whatever interest I had lol
i was kinda with the wacky stuff the new episode was going with until that weird, out of nowhere reveal
Dude, I am already done with the show as soon as they were doing the whole Millie is pregnant thing. It is already bad enough that Millie was having lack of development and now Viv is going to make Millie a mom to make her more interesting? As soon as I saw the scene where Millie threw up, I was like "Oh no...... They are not going to give Millie the mom route. I'm done" If their going to grave length to make Millie interesting by making her be a mom, I'm going to be disappointed. I thought Viv was different, I thought she wouldn't go down these types of routes, but I guess I was wrong. If they don't go through with the baby thing it might give it another chance. But, like how some people in the comments section have mentioned, I too thought that Helluva Boss would be more about I.M.P's job and not the relationship between Blitz and Stolas. I adopted to it for a while, but I be lying if I didn't say I was disappointed 😞
Honestly, I think if we had less stolitz and more about the class divide in hell this show could’ve been saved. You are right to be frustrated with it. I respect your choice as I too have gotten tired with the show. I’m only here to see how it ends, will miss your videos though.
As a fellow Vivzie-verse content creator, this was _beyond_ surreal to watch. You literally had the exact same story, the exact same journey, and the exact same opinions as me. Our first Helluva Boss videos unexpectedly blew up and we kept making more of them because we had a lot to say and were enjoying the show, but then our jobs as content creators began to slowly corrupt our opinions of the show and our content itself was contributing to a social media discourse sphere that we were getting more detached from by the day.
The only difference between us is that I never raked in as much views as you did, my videos' view counts dropped off even _more_ after season 1, and I pretty much crashed out entirely after the mid-season special of season 2. But aside from that, we both had the exact same journey of realizing that if the cost of internet fame is making an endless stream of content for a show that isn't fun to talk about anymore, then it's just not worth it.
Not going to lie I didn’t expect to see you here
...god no, are you also quitting-
@MoronicPlague If that's their choice, let them do it. It's not good to listen them talk about a show they don't enjoy watching anymore. They aren't quitting TH-cam, don't worry.
Ngl, I could feel the genuine joy he exuded when he discussed Murder Drones and not at all as I watched his Helluva Boss videos.
Now that I think about it, yeah, you're right
These 1hour videos had more energy than one 10 min of a HB review he did
@@dinodude6992that’s because murder drones isn’t getting a season 2
Totally.
5:05 My question is who in the hell has Unhappy Campers as their favorite episode
@@shortman578 A Masochist.
We all make mistakes.
As a masochist thats my least favorite episode-
@@delphoxhoopa7289
Moxie used to be my favorite charachter....his status has recovered a bit from that episode, but it will never be the same
As far as episodes go it's tremendously weak, but I still liked it fine personally. It's like Cherubs from season 1 - I understand the reasons people don't like it but I think the vitriol it gets is unwarranted.
The most infuriating thing about the finale was that all Stolas needed to say to Octavia was “I’ve been unhappy for years but you have always made me feel better” like dawg just say you are depressed it ain’t that hard!!!
I mean it is objectively hard, but its also absolutely what Via needed to hear in that moment, and honesyly given Stolas is quite literally at or past his breaking point, I feel like it'd fit his character to say that, even if it wasn't entirely intetional and more in an emotional outburst way.
I mean, he did kind of say that with "you've always been the only good thing in my life"
And she didn't believe him. If that didn't work, why wouldn't a slight variation work?
People aren't perfect either, most people don't know exactly what to say in the moment.
He did? Almost in those exact words.
he did say that but Octavia think it's another lie
Im more frustrated at Octavia. The show has done nothing for her as an individual character. I am not invested in her, but this show expects me to care about her personal problems. What makes it worse is that we've seen her recycle the same conflict over and over again.
I see why this repetition can be interesting, but the show does nothing with it.
17:58 THANKYOU good god I hated Vasago because he was just fan material and his personality is being Spanish
He not spanish hes hispanic, as if this show woul tolerate another european-coded character
Vasago is just the beeeeeeeesssst because he speaks Spanish and I like, have no idea what he is saying but he sounds so sasssssy when he says it. *seal claps* /s
@@edwardhisse2687 Yeah, he's another "latinx" (basically a slur btw) walking stereotype that of course speaks in spanish at random times because uuuuhhh because he just does ok? Just like Vaggie is an angel that is somehow hispanic too (I think her being hispanic was retconned but still...)
I don't know what's with Viv and making hispanic characters speak in spanish randomly but I dislike it so much.
@@edwardhisse2687 not to mention the Latin American people HATES Helluva or Hazbin
You hit the nail on the head as to why I could never fully get into Helluva: It's the writing. The passion is there, but the way you worded it accurately portrays why it doesn't work. It always chooses the easiest path to solve the problem, not the one that will give the most impact in terms of story. It's okay to allow your characters actions to have consequences. It's okay to allow the butterfly effect to take place, but if you're only going to allow your characters to walk the path of least resistance, character growth isn't actually earned, it's just another story beat rather than growth of a character.
Also, it just struck me... are they getting Millie pregnant so they can effectively write her out of the show??? Or is it because they just don't have anything to do with her so they figured giving the M&M's a baby would be something new for them to focus on and generate genuine conflict in their relationship? Is it so Blitz and Stolas can give advice to Moxie and then realize they're both kinda shitty dads??? Is this a misdirection so Millie can have a miscarriage because she's so determined to get into battles because that's what she's good at? IDK... I think it stinks because I don't have a lot of faith in the writers regarding Millie, particularly when they downplay her legitimate criticisms of her boss and best friend (lol) but there IS potential for something interesting here. It's not often that an action girl gets knocked-up.
Idk what shows you're watching, because "badass woman gets knocked up and magically becomes a better person" is disguntingly common. No shade to you btw, I'm just saying I've seen this trope a lot and I'm tired of it.
i dunno my first expectation when millie’s pregnancy was revealed is that one of the first couple of episodes of season 3 is going to be about millie telling moxie and both of them being nervous to tell the other they don’t feel ready or something of that nature.
yeah, for me it feels like they're unsure what to do with a strong female character other than center her around her husband or her potential child
Yeah there’s almost no way I can see the pregnancy subplot going anywhere good. Then again I might be biased because I don’t like the idea of pregnancy in general lmfao
@sadgoat1999 You think Millie, of all characters, would become a better person? How? Edit: To clarify, no lol I clearly haven't been watching the same shows.
Both shows really abandoned their premises, I'd say Helluva boss does it a little better especially as there are the shorts and they still do occasional hits, and there's always the sense they are doing work in the background, meanwhile Hazbin just went "yeah we redeemed one sinner, now the hotel is just a set location" *time skips to adam's invasion and prepping for it*
They had only 8 25min episodes to close out season 1 plot. Also Pentius wasn't redeemed before the time skip. Did you even watch the show? I blame the rushed plot on Amazon.
@Radiogirl1931 did you not understand what I said? The episode where he was spying on them and decided to stick around is what the premise for the show was about, regardless if before or after time skip he ascended, that's what enabled him to go to heaven at the end, we never got that for any other character when that was the pitch
They give the pitch the show is about a hotel where sinners get to redeem themselves, and only one character actually goes through the process of going from bad to good through the hotel. Instead it's just about Adam. It'd be like if helluva boss did one hit job in the pilot and then forgot the IMP existed
No the hotel is still a main setting and they still use it.
@@Jdudec367 yeah that's what a set location is
@@aetriandimitri190 yeah
It's okay. The Hazbin/Helluva Boss fandom suffers from toxic positivity. Anyone who criticized the show gets dogpiled.
You couldn't have said it better, bro...
Sucks that I have to agree with that one.
Like, on the one hand it's great seeing people combat the groups that will hate on something (especially an indie something) just to hate on it, but it's gotten to the point where I've seen dozens of instances of Helluva fans write off criticism of the show as the critics _'not being smart enough to understand the nuance'_ and _'need to have things spelt out for them'_ instead of actively and genuinely engaging with the parts of the show being discussed that people take issue with.
A lot of fans don't want to *talk* about the show, they want to scream about it and if you're not hitting the same note as them they don't want you joining in at all.
Personally, Millie's pregnancy is the final straw for me. I was already bored with the Stolitz stuff and honestly couldn't care less about that relationship period...
But the one thing I've seen so many ppl afraid of for Millie is the pregnancy trope and oops! There it is. Im so sick of this theme of "we cannot expand on female characters unless there pregnant or mean!?!?" UGHHHH Maybe its best to let the show simmer and come back.
I actually find it quite ironic that they decided to get Millie pregnant after receiving immense backlash regarding how empty and boring her writing is.
People from both inside and outside the fandom have pointed out how Millie's personality being basically based around men, being barely explored and just overall focusing on Moxxie is quite sexist, so the HB team decides to... develop her more by giving her a baby? What comes next? If the M&Ms decide to have that child and Millie's character critique now becomes how her only issues are a mix between motherhood and Moxxie, what will they do? Make her a housewife too? Kill off one of her family members?
It's not that women can't want to be mothers or be family-oriented, but come on, that's been the whole point of the commentary for the last 3 years at least; VivziePop's female characters are underdeveloped and it's kinda looking like sexism at this point.
I normally despise stories when badass female characters get married and have kids, but I actually might like this one as long as it's not like Videl's shitty character arc in Dragon Ball Z. Maybe they'll take turns watching the baby or they'll hire a character as a babysitter.Millie is considered the most boring character in IMP because she started where most stories end. She's already a trained badass, has no conflict with her family, and was already married since episode 1. Nothing really challenges her directly like all of the other characters. Having a child in their line of work would be a challenge for her because it's like nothing she's ever done before and it makes sense narratively because that's normally the next stage of a married person's life. Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss have a bunch of different father storylines, it's about time we get to see relationships with mothers too.
@@kissmyasthma_99 THIS OMG THIS!! I wanted them to explore HER not a baby or family 😭
@@sprinklejinx3178 i just wanted her as a character to be explored first, it just feels wrong to do so this way but maybe they'll do it justice 🤷🏽♀️
@peaches6405 Yeah. I would have liked to see her have a rival. Maybe learn more about her and Chaz since we found out he did something bad to Moxie and she made a pretty strong reaction to his return.
it just occurred to me that Stolas and Blitz's dynamic is very similar to Scott Pilgrim and Ramona Flowers. They're all intended to be flawed/scumbag characters to some degree, and their respective stories try to hold them accountable for that as they work towards a stable relationship. Scott Pilgrim even had a pretty similar problem to Helluva Boss where Scott received way more attention than Ramona did in the original comic series and movie, just as Blitz has had. The difference is that story goes out of its way to make it clear that Scott is a bad person and holds him accountable for his mistakes, and in the recent anime series, it does the same thing with Ramona. It shows the very real effect their poor decisions make on the characters around them.
Helluva Boss doesn't do that because, with some exceptions, it tends to paint Blitz in a sympathetic light, and Stolas even more so. For example, not only was Blitz and Fizzarolli's decades-long feud reduced to a misunderstanding, we never got to see Fizzarolli's side of that story drawn out for us with that much detail. They shouldn't have made up immediately in that episode, because, intentional or not, Blitz played a part in Fizz's disfigurement and it's clear he saw him as responsible for a long time. We needed Fizz to stick to his guns longer for their reconciliation to feel more natural. Instances like this, along with the poor pacing within episodes, are what really damage the show.
It lies in a frustrating position between having stellar voice acting, great musical numbers, and great animation, along with distinct and memorable characters, but also feeling hurried in many ways. There are plenty of instances where shots are way too short, missing important opportunities to let information sink in and have a greater impact. Andrealphus doesn't feel intimidating because we've barely seen him; when he was backing off after they all fought, he delivered a foreboding message setting up his return... except we moved on to Octavia like 1 second later so there was really no time for that to sink in as a genuine threat. Likewise, Octavia isn't a very interesting character because most of her presence is one-note. We don't get dedicated time with her. Show her bonding with Stolas more! Then when she does feel betrayed we can relate to her better. Digital Circus does a good job of this. The show is slowly working towards the big things; if someone does abstract in the coming episodes, I think we will care about it much more than a similar-scale incident in Helluva, because we've gotten downtime with the characters. Helluva introduces like 15 different characters then only gives us downtime with the main trio of Blitz, Moxxie, and Millie.
The issue is moreso with time allocation, I believe. *Hazbin* is rushed. This is poorly executed, which is mostly on Vivzie. I think she wants instant gratification and it shows in the writing. You could restructure the whole story, preserving the major plot points, and have a much better, more satisfying watch, in my opinion.
Biggest difference by far between TADC and HB is that TADC isn’t afraid to slow down for serious moments.
When Gummigoo starts having his existential crisis there’s no music, no action, no jokes, and it dwells on that specific scene for like, a full minute and a half before anything else happens, and even after Pomni comes into the scene the tone doesn’t change.
HB just doesn’t have that. Every serious scene is interrupted 40 seconds in with some character screaming or some shit. It’s like the show itself has ADHD.
For serious moments, humor, and even just being able to tell what on earth is going on in a shot in a first view, one of Vivzie's consistent weaknesses is giving scenes the time they need
@@carnage0685 Screaming doesn't mean it's not serious though it still has serious moments clearly.
Lucifer should’ve been season 2, Vaggie reveal at the end of 2, Adam and lute being name dropped in between 2 and 3 with a tie in graphic novel.
Helluva really showed its weakness when the last 3 sins were just ballparked in.
Vivzie is impatient. Clear that she was spoiled despite what she will claim to be should you call her out.
@@carnage0685 imo both of Vivzie's shows have the same problem Murder Drones had but 10 times worse. I loved Murder Drones, but way too often it had moments that should be serious or impactful, but got immediately undercut by quips and jokes instead of letting the scene breathe. Thankfully MD got its act somewhat together in the later episodes, but you really can't say the same for Hazbin or Helluva Boss
I’m a chef. Trust me, this is relevant to the vid. I know when I’m at work, I have a timeline to make certain dishes. Everything is about timing, heat, flavor. I know that if I don’t cook a dish’s certain way, it’ll turn out not its best, and I want to be the best. I make a variety of stuff. I understand this as an artist and as a consumer. As a consumer, I like the kind of complicated works I make day in and day out, but some days, I just want something simple, and some people might even call it trash. Even if they’re right, sometimes that’s just what I like. That’s why I stick around
In other words, you're saying... they didn't cook?
@ nah. They cooked. They made a product. What I was saying is not every dish is going to be a Wellington or coq au vin. And sometimes you won’t even crave that. Some dishes are microwaved pizza rolls, and that’s quite alright 😊
@@wrxtersblxckhonestly, I can respect that.
But, after a well you start to get tired of the same dish being served though.
@@dokchampa9324 They did cook. Themselves.
@@wrxtersblxckI think the problem people have is that the writers think they’re making a gourmet steak but they’re just serving day old McDonald’s burgers. Again, we’re supposed to see this show as the queer bojack horseman. It’s not supposed to be empty and mindless filler.
Vivziepop has never been a good writer. Everything she's made has the same problem, she introduces far too many characters, then loses sight of the original premise.
Helluva Boss Back Then: Comedy Show about Demon Assassins killing people for profit
Helluva Boss Now: Emotional Romance Drama about an Imp and a Bird with a side of Killing for Profit
It seemed pretty obvious to me after the second episode of season 1 that it wasn't going to just be "haha, funny killing business"
It's not even that anymore, because apparently, Blitzo suddenly doesn't want to kill every target.
@@valentinkambushev4968and honestly his hesitation to kill the gay couple is downright hypocritical when he killed a wife who cheated on her husband before.
It sends a weird message of: cheating and ruining your family is fine so long as you're closeted.
kinda reminds of South park lol
@@valentinkambushev4968I think this was a one time thing, since it might have been a little too close to home at the time.
Completely understandable. Honestly mid way through season 2 I realized that I didn’t care about any of the characters and none of the writing decisions served to make me care *more*
At this point, the only thing keeping me is the animation. And the fact that it’s free.
@@valentinkambushev4968 same
@@BeautifulRenegade I FEEL THIS. I didn't get into the show until a couple months before Season 2 premiered, but even I could tell that something felt off compared to the first. Personally, it's become like Miraculous Ladybug where I'm only still watching just to see how it ends rather than actually being invested in the plot anymore.
@@delphoxhoopa7289 that is probably the best comparison. Miraculous and Helluva are definitely that type of show, probably only care for one or two characters and the rest is just curiosity on where the shitshow is going
I heard more people will write season 4
As much as people love or hate it there's a factor that I always loved, the effort they put in. The animation, the voice acting, it's amazing in the end. This show has a lot of potential to be even better in the next two season (I think there is two more seasons left) and yes unlike Hazbin Hotel THEY CAN take their time and flesh out the story to close as many plot holes as possible.
I loved the first season, and the second wasn't bad, it just needs some more time to fix the things they do in the writing a little.
I heard season 4 will have more writers
Exactly!! For me, the thing that keeps me coming back is the fact that the people making it WANT to make it. I'll always support projects where the people in charge clearly have a passion for the property.
@@estelalopez6929
The show already has 10 writers, which is a lot already. If they were to get more writers, I hope they have more experience. Vivzie should start looking at indie shows like Lackadaisy and Tadc.
@@estelalopez6929
Or at least take a minute to analyse Bojack Horseman.
(I’m saying this as an HB fan)
Off topic but I see that Swatch icon. 👀👀👀👀👀
I honestly don't care for me better this show gets buried under other better written stories. TADC in just 4 episodes shown more character depth than anything Vivzie ever did. And I'm not glazing Gooseworks.
Even i'm not that big a fan of TADC/Gooseworx's stuff but i can agree.
TADC has fewer lows but also fewer highs. Its a more competently developed show but i dont find it as compelling as the glorious trainwreck that is Helluva Boss.
Honestly I don't think your the only one. The vibe of Helluva Boss reviews is "this is popular ergo I must review it. Even if I don't like the show." To the point that I only watch One TH-camr talk about it and that's an animation/character analysis nut.
I actively *haven't* been watching your Helluva Boss reviews (I hate clickbait). I also massively respect stepping back from reviewing it if you can't enjoy the show anymore. Have fun. Go back to having fun. Review some other shit because you WANT to. I'm curious to see where you go from here.
Skyen?
Out of curiosity, would that animation/character nut happen to be called TBSkyen?
Omg I love his videos! The mixture of positivity and criticism, and being a total animation NERD, it's so refreshing!
I know Helluva Boss has many flaws in it's writting, I hate and love Full Moon, why half of the episode is about the fucking cheerubs?!?! However, I cannot describe how much joy and happyness I feel when a new episode comes out! The animation, the music, the characters dynamic... these things neutralize all the issues I have with the show, but I still understand that they are still issues.
It has had that vibe for a lot of reviews, I enjoy what Helluva Boss is, but it def feels like a lot of people especially those who be making reviews wanted the show to be something else, and I don't blame them. The show teased 1 thing during its pilot and episode 1, but from episode 2 then especially episode 5 forward the focus on Blitz and his relationships quickly became the main plot and not just some fluff to the assassin work.
You know what, thank you for actually deciding to walk away instead of becoming increasingly bitter and hyper critical of the show. You basically realized you were close to going full Lily Orchard Steven Universe, and that that wouldn't be fun for yourself or us.
lowkey one of my greatest fears, was that I would become the Orchard of the Helluva Boss fandom.
Don't think i would've gotten that far as i have enough friends to tell me when i'm out of line. But best not to tempt fate.
The thing that separates you from Lily is that you care about how you critique a show. Lily just shits out slop out of her mouth and calls it a valid “critique”.
@@SarcasticChorus tbf, you at least avoid accusing the writers of being bad people or that anything you don't vibe with personally is an objectively bad writing choice. Still, will absolutely miss these vids.
@@TurtlePWR108And Chorus doesn’t have a list of disturbing downright criminal allegations
@@SarcasticChorushonestly I couldn't see you being like Lily Orchard just because you were frustrated with the episode because unlike lily orchard I feel like you wouldn't accuse someone of being a racist just because you don't like the show
I started to watch Sarcastic Chorus due to Helluva boss, but this is completely understandable. I personally feel like Helluva boss wants to put so much information in an episode, yet has subplots which could be removed. It’s just so packed up. And if the show just constantly depicts these problems, I guess it could be tiring to continue the critics. Though I really didn’t expect this to happen, I fully support you. I hope you can come back with Helluva boss when you feel the desire to share your thoughts.
Now that I think about it Stella and Andre aren't even that bad of people. Yeah they wanted to gain Stolas' wealth and fame but so did Stolas' dad......like the only reason Stella isn't the outright obvious protagonist of the series is because they gave her a Karen personality. Think about it:
-Two rich people are married, they're both unhappy due to it being a political marriage. They can't leave the marriage because they had a daughter.
-The husband commits in marriage adultery and neglects his daughter for a random goon(er) (permanently tarnishing the family's reputation)
-The wife tries to kill the husband for the crime he did
The husband is the protag and the wife is the villain...........
This also is why I hate what they wrote the Karen Client for.
Reminder Viv compared Stella to Beatrice Horseman. You know, a character who despite being an abusive mother, wasn't cartoonishly evil and was a victim of her upbringing to explain, but not excuse, the things she did in adulthood. Meanwhile Stella is strangling puppies as a child...
@chaoticneutral7976 Stella doesn't compare to Beatrice.
Beatrice is so wonderfully complex; especially in time's arrow. The BoJack team gave her character nuance during that episode, and that is something Helluva Boss would never give Stella.
@@ae1103 Yup. Also Viv has gone on record to say that Beatrice was one dimensional until season 4 where we got her backstory which is blatantly not true. When she calls Bojack after his book comes out, she actually acknowledges she was a bad mother. Even during her flashbacks before her backstory episodes, although she was cruel, she never felt like a caricature. She was abusive but she wasn't a mustache twirling villain laughing at Bojack's misery. Meanwhile, Viv is allergic to give Stella even an ounce of sympathy or depth because she doesn't want to risk Stolas being seen in any kind of bad light.
One of the first things that made me drop Viv's content around the time season two first premiered (didn't watch a thing after unhappy campers) was the way they trashed Stella's character. It's the perfect example of what it feels like she does with every character (especially her female ones) when they go against or don't like whichever male character she decides she's going to woobify.
I think the same thing as always happened. Vivziepop has always had this super ADHD way to build stories where she will set something super cool and interesting up, only to make random side plots/characters the main focus shortly after, as happened with Stolas in S2, and judt kinda throw the previous characters by the way side. OG fans of her stuff will remember that The Hazbin cast used to be side characters in Zoophobia for example. It's frustrating as a viewer but also weirdly interesting, don't know other media with this issue.
Charlie wasn’t even a character in Zoophobia, right? Or there was some Charlie character that had nothing to do with the one in Hazbin Hotel
She really needs to hire someone to slap her hand and say "bad" when she makes stupid decisions.
@@carnage0685 I mean...there is Smling Freinds Charlie but I doubt that's who you meant lol.
As someone with ADHD, even I have a hard time keeping up with the scenes and the story when everything happens so fast and randomly. She doesn't let the scenes flow naturally, or for charaters to have lenghty growth, or to establish a natural way for the characters to develop and become likeable. It feels like she first places down ingredients on the table and presents it to us, and we're like "yeah that's cool", and then just throws them all into a mixer in hopes that it would work out and taste good
@@carnage0685 True, Charlie in Zoophobia was a random sinner and might as well have been a new character. Every other main character was already there though. Even some of the secondary characters like Chery Bomb etc.
I unironically still enjoy Helluvaboss, but I also totally see and agree with all your critiques. It's kind of like how I still enjoy Sword Art Online, despite the shows MASSIVE problems. It's to the point, I appreciate what the writer was TRYING to do with it, while understanding that they were not skilled enough to properly execute it. I'm sure time constraints a really issue. I would love for this show to have half-again or double the number of episodes per season, but that's not how things worked out.
That said, good luck on the next chapter of your channel and career!
agree as an SAO fan summary = underutilized concepts
This phenomenon of people still tolerably watched a media in a long term, even if the media itself has a lot of problems is known as the "Stock(holm)Show Syndrome"
I agree. As someone who cooks, I compare it to some seasoned asparagus I partly burned earlier; the burned parts were definitely unpleasant, but there was still enough good texture and flavor that there was no point in throwing it away. When Helluva Boss misses the mark, it tends to miss HARD - I was just about to drop the show after Full Moon and Apology Tour, and I really wish the show would pump the brakes for a while - but these last three episodes brought back my interest.
@@MasterBotttle No one is stopping people from quitting the show. Not equivalent.
I think you’ve just summed up why I still love this show even with its massive and numerous flaws, it’s because I still wonderfully appreciate the work and message they’re trying to convey… even though it may seem incomplete to others…
Stolitz becoming more like a fanfiction couple and taking all the spotlight is what really dragged this show tbh, the shippers get what they want but it just makes it hard to watch sometimes. I end up wishing the worst for the characters because they always end up back together despite there being several points they should have split up
It should have been teased and toyed with not the sole focus. Focus should have been about I.M.P going after bigger and bigger game each episode and introducing key characters as disguised demons of importance and then failing some missions on occasion. Side Episodes could have been the team focusing on why they failed a mission and explore hell to confront said demon while getting back on track. From there Stolas should have played the role of a boss taking advantage of an employee til the he was forced to be more involved as I.M.P went up against threats from human religions/corporations and finally Heaven.
I'm pretty sure Vivzie confirmed that Stolitz is endgame, but she doesn't seem to know how to develop them as a couple without making it the major point of the show. I do agree that Blitz resolving his issues with Stolas would also help him grow as a character, but in terms of how it's handled it's just not working that way. It feels almost as if everything happens just because it's convenient for the story, and not because the charaters naturally come to those conclusions / feelings. I don't particularly ship them, I'm pretty neutral about it, but I do think Stolitz could've been so much more interesting had Vivzie handled the writing with more care and slow pacing. She has great ideas, and the team makes a wonderful job at executing them. But in terms of writing? She's definitely still very unexperienced, as most of her writing knowledge comes from back when she made comics on DeviantArt and whatnot. And her biggest strenghts are definitely her concepts and her music videos. She just needs to let someone else handle the writing, or at LEAST refine the script that she comes up with to make a more coherent story
It reminds me of Star vs forces of evil, I think that was the name.
@redpanda6497 yep! The situation with that show was honestly awful. It gave in too much into the shipping and stretching out the supposed ship to the point where nobody was happy or satisfied anymore. They tried to please the fans and this is what they got
The funny part is that the more you make a pairing akin to boiled chicken, the more the shippers will leave. Shippers like angst and peak emotional drama and flawed characters that love each other in a flawed way, not generic hallmark romance.
Like, there is a reason why all the most loved\written about ships of all times are either not canon(so you make up the angst lol) or canon but very flawed or with BIG angsty scenes.
Canon but boring is the death of shipping, and considering this comment section, I'm not alone in thinking this.
"wait for the writers to sort this out later" "wait for this issue to be addressed later" what do you mean I have to wait, 2 seasons in for this show to be engaging in any way.
It's halfway to its end and only one season of good story. It might be too late.
this kind of feeling is the exact reason I stopped watching Helluva pretty early on. the disappointment of hinted nuances either being completely flattened, or outright ignored to force the plot to make sense. You got it perfectly, and it's so refreshing to see this sentiment of wanting to like something but being unable to ignore it. I hope you enjoy the time away from it, too.
People say stolas doesn’t blame himself but he does
I dropped it around mid season 1 if I well remember, and only kept myself informed with reviews every once in a while. I already highly disliked the character designs, but when the story and characters started to flatten and flop about, I was done lol
Didn't even try to watch the final version of Hazbin, the dialogues would make me cringe into an early grave, but as far as I've seen, it has the same problems.
@@DeadKraken personally, I dropped it after the release of shooting stars, because all my expectations had me hinging on the m&ms confronting blitz on invading their privacy. Not only was that potential completely squandered, but we were met with more weird stolitz bait right off the bat, and the premise of octavia and loona spending a day away was sidelined to the very end for it, too. the release of the previous episode didn't follow up either, it still felt like a big slap in the face for tricking myself into liking it. nothing will be as crushing as realizing how disappointed it made me :/ but at least I can ramble about how much potential it could've had to friends
I accept that burnout happens. It sucks, but that's life. However, was Hazbin really supposed to be 24 episodes? Yikes. Man, just imagine how awesome that would have been. I'd even be ok with 20 episodes and a mid-season hiatus.
When I saw the announcement a few days ago my excitement quickly turned to "Well, this season is gonna be rushed to hell". Helluva is getting around 50 eps total meanwhile Hazbin is planning to add more songs than season one in season 2 with the same amount of of episodes?! I'll still watch it but my hopes are not high 😅
I think it was actually supposed to have around 12 episodes if you look at the original concept pitch for the show.
I heard people saying it was supposed to be 12. Still, 4 episodes make a LOT of diference. It's really a pity and really explains why the pacing is so fast
@@lexx1745 The truth is, I don't think any of us truly know how many episodes season one was originally supposed to have. The pitch bible only indicated 10 episodes, and Vivziepop has *never* confirmed the planned episode count. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a lot of contradictions and misinformation spread about what happened during the production of season one of Hazbin Hotel.
@@milenartmeire2588 I don't know where the idea that season one of Hazbin Hotel was supposed to have 12 episodes came from, as the pitch bible only indicated 9 to 10-ish episodes and at least 10 unproduced comics.
Whoa wasn’t expecting this but we support your decision
This episode actively made me go from mildly disliking Stolas to actively hating him
The episode reeked of “oh woe is me” because Stolas realised his actions have consequences
Thanks for everything, I started watching this series and your breakdowns around the same time and I always considered it sorta part of the enjoyment, so much so that I kinda looked forward to it, but it's understandable, thanks for making this show more enjoyable in my eyes.
To put it very, *very* briefly, I feel like Stolitz should've been one slice of a several-layered pie and not the underlying crust of it.
FINALLY! It's in words! You said it better than anyone else. The show sets up interesting and nuanced ideas and lessens their impact by playing it safe! I literally couldn't agree more.
As much I grew to dislike this show due to Stolas not taking any accountability, it's refreshing to see someone criticize it in a way that's actually level-headed.
Gonna be honest: when I saw that you *consistently* had a video up about the newest Helluva Boss episode within 24 hours of the episode dropping, I thought "either SC is extremely quick on the draw, or he isn't sleeping." Sorry to hear the latter has been the case for you.
You articulated a lot of my thoughts on Helluva Boss well in this video. I'm in a similar position where I want to like this show, in part because I think it's important to support independent animation, but the writing flaws keep cropping up (and in some cases, compounding). I mean this in the kindest way possible: at points, Helluva Boss is more like an animated sketchbook of OCs than a show trying to tell coherent stories. If that's what Spindle Horse wants to create, that's fine! But it's become clear that my expectations for the show, much like yours, have diverged strongly from the show's reality.
For what it's worth, I've enjoyed a lot of your other videos (the Invincible ones stick out in my memory, as well as the ATLA and Fionna & Cake videos). I look forward to seeing what else you do. Take care.
Gonna be honest I found you due to helluva boss but I will be staying on your channel cause you have been so much more shows that I love. Keep up the good work!
My “let them cook” take is that if they do have the whole story planned out already, then it makes sense that stolitz was intended to be the main arc of season 2, not that they’ve abandoned the original premise (with the exception of Ozzie’s, season one doesn’t focus on them as the main plot). The place stolas and blitz are at by the finale seems stable enough that season 3 can focus on other things.
Honestly I do think that season three will focus back in on their job with Millie being pregnant which is massive considering her job, if Blitz does come back into come into contact with Barbie again it would be through their jobs so it makes sense that the next season will have more of a focus on their work.
@@bladeinthesmint5995and next season we will Stella’s backstory
This is honestly where I'm at with the ending of season 2. I mean, they didn't even hint at the Cherubs and DHORKS in the finale, so clearly they're meant for something else later. And considering they're working on Earth to reach hell partly because of the gang's fuckups with their main business, it only makes sense for them to be enemies of IMP insofar as they're an obstacle to the business aspect rather than personal enemies.
Having DHORKS and the Cherubs be villains of season 3 only makes sense if IMP's actual assassination business was the focus of the season, but we shall see.
@@bladeinthesmint5995 Stolas himself also seems to work at IMP now so it's easier to include him alongside rest of the main cast in mission focused episodes (also means Loona can get way more screentime if their trading at the desk). Still probably gonna be a lot of Hell focused episodes (we better fucking see the Envy Ring finally) tho but with 15 maybe they can strike a better balance (and tbh one of the funniest things to me is that by and large in all my time in the fandom aside from Truth Seekers which is probably the most universally loved episode of the show for the most part the episodes that the fandom seemed to like the least.. were the mission focused episodes with the Hell focused episodes being the ones that got loads and loads of praise)
@@norsehorse84 We'll see them again, but like I don't think their gonna be the MAIN antagonist of a season. Their designed to be recurring villains but not Big Bads. the DHORKs I could see being a bigger deal, humans crossing into Hell would obviously be a big plot point but the Cherubs are kinda designed to mostly be silly side villains.
The big Bads are Stella+Andre and I suppose Crimson plays the role of personal big bad to the MnMs (and you've got Striker with his rivalry with IMP being the gun for hire for any of these folks) and maybe like Mammon might step into that sort of role too.
I fully respect your opinion and stepping away from a show you used to enjoy isn't an easy thing for someone to do. I feel like i'm in the minority that actually enjoys S2 more than S1, but that comes to personal taste and not something that's objectively fact. I wish you the best of luck with other content 😁
I respect this comment because I think everyone else is expressing their opinions and yours is the first one that feels different to what everyone else is saying. I actually appreciate the mix of direction of the show and I don’t see any loss of passion for this show from the creators. Season one is an introduction to main characters and comedy and then second season is bout backstory and trauma and romance and third will resolve relationships and development of character growth and then last season will conclude the show with all that we grew to love about this show ending positively because everything else is revolved. There’s so much mix and the VA love this show because the OC characters represent their characters. I think season 3 especially will answer so many questions that season 2 introduced and the show has left a cliffhanger to season 3 which I find exciting. I’m not saying the show isn’t flawed but no show is perfect and no one ever agrees to everything. This show also is showing POV so much and that’s where the fans get to base an opinion. The fans are toxic, this show gets a bad rap unfortunately. Fans want something and complain when there is change. I respect Sarcastic Chorus losing interest in the show and moving on, it takes a lot of guts to do TH-cam for yourself and not for the content that ppl obsessively expect constantly. There is to much drama in the fan base. Helluva is one of the better shows in our generation and if y’all lose passion focus on other shows. I don’t sugar coat anything, but I enjoy this show and I think this show only going to improve
i agree so much with both of u 🫶
I personally enjoy season 2 more than season 1 too. I don't really like episodic adventure shows, I just can't get invested much in them so I'm very happy helluva boss turned into something more than murder shenanigans and silly adventures. It still tries to be kinda episodic in how they structure the episodes (like every episode is generally standalone, focused on something different with quite big time skips in between) which creates many issues with the writing imo but it still creates a better overall experience than if it had stayed as just episodic adventures. I hope that in the future since they plan to release season 3 episodes with more frequency they will try to make episodes less episodic in structure so the show will feel a lot better and events more nicely tied together
@@sovyenn i love this comment so much oh my gosh 😭 everyone keeps saying they wish they kept it as an episodic action based thing, but i think 99% of the viewer base would be gone if that *actually* happened
No cuz can we talk about the line Octavia dropped about Stolas's anit-depressants cuz that shit was actually VILE. I'm not even mad at her for it, I'm mad at the writers for thinking that was a good idea. My jaw legit dropped when I heard that cuz WTF?! There's so many ways to make her anger and pain sound sympathetic, even if it hurts to listen to, and THAT is what you land on?!
Also, I'm on a rant now but I agree that the stuff in Mastermind didn't feel earned but I'd go further and say Sinsmas didn't feel earned either. It feels like they just saw the comments of Stolas's lack of consequences and decided to throw them in there with ship stuff to make everyone feel better.
like she is a teenager she should know what depression and anti-depressants are
and well, she grew up in that house, the same house where Stella tried to organize a hit on her husband at the breakfast table. Octavia should not be surprised or even upset that her dad has depression.
@@fairystail1right? Octavia is 17 not 5. You mean to tell me she’s an angsty teenager who listens to depressing music and she doesn’t know how depression pills work?
Mate im gonna be honest,
I would have dropped helluva boss a lot sooner, but i loved your videos so much i needed to watch the episode to have context. However last two episodes brought so little exitment, i just kept them on the backburner, as well as the reviews so that i can have some Sarcastic Chores goodness stored away. Guess its time to catch up one last time to have context for your vids.
Very understandable youre dropping the show. I would've dropped years ago if it wasnt for you. Honestly, for me personaly you brought a lot more entertainment than it did in later season and thank you for that.
Looking forward to all your other content mate!
Is it bad that when I saw that the Happy Pills were getting attention in the finale, i immediately thought about your “Full Moon” review with fans saying that Stolas acted out of character because of that 40 frame shot of Stolas running out of Happy Pills? No?
13:02 OH FUCK HE’S TALKING ABOUT IT
I remember at least once or twice seeing stolas taking the pills in prior episodes, seeing them pop back up in Sinsmas and being like "oh yeah that makes sense"
Mark my words: Hazbin will be the same.
You know how I know?
Because it's taken directly from Zoophobia. Zoophobia started with an interesting concept, and then got lost in a multitude of characters and subplots, between schools for outcast furries and wars between heaven and hell.
It never ended and never got to say a damn thing. You know why? Because Vivziepop doesn't have a damn thing to say.
This isn't a hate post for her, and I don't want people to bother her on social media after this, but it's the bitter truth.
Vivzie feels the need to say something, but she has no idea what to say. So that's all that shines through in the end in her works: need.
Need is the basis of ships. That's why Helluvaboss is the only product that goes forward "solid in its insolidity". Because it's a love story 50 shades of gray style, trash all the same.
I've seen people say they hate Via for what she said to Stolas and that's genuinely so dumb to me and I think that's a result of the softening issue you spoke about. Anyway,I look forward to whatever you chose to cover next
One of the headscratchers for me is I saw roasters from the blitzo x stolas x stolitz world war roast and most everyone agreed out of everyone that Via would have the most rights to criticize the relationship neglecting her as a kid, then when it happened, people splitroasted her despite wishing for it prior. Real headscratcher.
Hell people asked for the stolas character to be punished, people seem to project their personal experiences, say flaky partners who didn't pay onto stolas, catfishers, etc, or consent ignorers or power dynamic abusers or abusive spouses or controlling spouses or manipulative spouses onto stolitz's blitzos/stolas.
IT's a real landmine yet Via is a kid and yet i've still seen every blitz fan ghost the hospitalization of stolas scene and ghosting and just frame it as if Stolas's last encounter was sex. I mean it's in character and of ozzies. but Stolas's last interaction before full moon was being left to die in a hospital, trying to get blitzo a crystal for freedom, magically regrowing limbs. And being ghosted for months.
And if there was at least a acknowledgement or a "well just being injured and left to die in a hospital doesn't mean the other person is entitled to care about them" kinda excuse.
But no most blitz fans just start flaming and degrading you or completely intentionally ignoring the hospitalization as the last interaction for some reason and i have no idea why.
I dont hate her and i get why she is upset but she's upset about the wrong things
gods damned, she's a teenager who is upset that her dad is taking anti-depressants. What teenager doesn't know about depression? And like Stella was so obvious with how much she hated Stolas that she was talking to his assassin at the breakfast table. This should not have been a surprise to Octavia at all.
@ Oh,I actually know a video you might like. It’s about Gravity Falls from the channel Hana Hyper-fixates and basically talks about the exact phenomenon you’re describing here
@ Yeah but that’s arguably a problem with the writing,having her focus on the wrong thing rather than the very real criticisms she could have
Another thing that just hit me. Why does Stella know that Stolas has been lending his book to Blitz. Why does Octavia. I wouldn't understand why he would tell Octavia but its incredibly unbelievably stupid that he would tell Stella. For something that he knew was extremely illegal he seemed not too worried about keeping it a secret
Its called bad writing, the only logical reason was Stella had a butler/maid imp that over seen it and reported it to her.
Blitz fell with the grimoire at hand, I guess she knew there
I've said it before and I'll say it again
Stolitz is a SHIT pairing. Their relationship and suddenly dynamic makes zero sense. I still don't see how they have any relationship. In the last show, stolas even screams that he hates that he made this choice. He _regrets_ choosing blitzø. He didn't say i don't regret it, he said it was _the right thing to do_ . That's not the same thing. They don't work. They've never worked. Even when they got retconned with a childhood connection. Even when they made stolas more softboi. Even making Blitzø act utterly out of character suddenly being in love with a guy he could barely stand. It just is illogical. And frankly they aren't a couple that gives me feels. It's going to crash and burn if they wanna write it correctly. But we all know they are too scared to do that.
So much of the show refuses to show people in _Hell_ as evil. They treat everyone like sweet buns. Its representation of the personifications of literal sins makes me cringe cause they make the sins out to be "just like normal people". Which begs the question, how did they become the embodiment of said sins in the first place if they are no different than the rest. Set aside mammon, everyone else acts like a normal. It _is_ so fanficky because it kiddie gloves all the characters cause heaven forbid anyone hates a character for being a bad person except for the very particular ones.
I will still watch, but there's so much that keeps getting worse just to shoehorn in Stolas and Blitzø being a ✨️couple✨️
Is It Wrong To Compare Stolitz To Starco Because I'm Kinda Getting Those Vibes
To me the audiance got baited with one show and got delivered something completely different.
I dont think blitz couldnt stand stolas, it was more of a power dynamic issue as it said in the video but yea i would rather this pairing being maybe in late season 3 or mid season 4
I dont think blitz couldnt stand stolas, it was more of a power dynamic issue as it said in the video but yea i would rather this pairing being maybe in late season 3 or mid season 4
Most of the fans are gay Furries, are you honestly surprised by this direction? They chose the route of broken families, they should have had Blitz and Stolas work it out of their system then man up and fix their Families, Stella is a broken women who needed a strong man in her life having Stolas as a manchild panzy didn't help that one bit but she was loyal and determined to have an heir. But no he ruins it and makes things far worst on himself and has the nerve to wonder why Stella went from making fun of him to wanting him dead. I'm pretty sure if she watched Stolas handing her brother his big fat L she would have gotten wet and asked "So where was this man when I was laying eggs?"
How things are going now Octavia is going to be a man hater, go full blown Lesbian and magically hook up with Loona despite her clearly being very hungry for men because of MODERN AUDIENCES!
This video reminded me of an Arcane quote from Season 2: "I think the cycle only ends when you find the will to walk away" - Silco. As sad I am to see your Helluva Boss reviews go, I'm happy for you that you're doing what you know it best for yourself. Thank you for all the time you've spent discussing this show (And Hazbin), and I'll continue to keep watching your channel for all the other wonderful things you make!
Okay, seeing the Helluva Boss viewcount chart I made a year ago suddenly appear in a video jumpscared me.
@@Anarcho-Bunnyist was that you!?!?
Lmao I wanted to credit but the Reddit account had been deleted.😭
I will say though, a thing I have noticed is that, at a certain point, the view count does plateau at a certain level--and concerningly, it is plateauing at a lower and lower view count with each episode, meaning fewer people are coming back.
@@blockyuniverseproductions No, it doesn't, what the hell are you talking about?
@@SarcasticChorus Yeah, I deleted that account because I didn't use it for a long time. (Ngl kinda regret it now.)
@@Anarcho-Bunnyist If you look at the view counts for the episodes--or really for any view count on videos--eventually the new views begin to slow down as people stop watching it as often--a "Plateau" if you will. It's more noticeable on older videos in the series, where they have topped out and don't really gain many new views after a few months.
The issue comes with the fact that this plateau has been happening at lower counts each episode.
my biggest problem is that Stolas’ characterization is so laughably one note, he’s a well meaning noble. It feels like the writers never go hard on him the same way they do for blitz which just feels biased since sometimes there is a pretty understandable reason why what is essentially a peasant would be a dick to a noble, not to say blitz is right but it feels like the morality of the characters revolves around Stolas
Oh mannn... Every time there was new HB episode I was always waiting for your review... It's gonna be so weird to get used to not getting new Helluva content from you..... Ehhh... I'm glad there are still going to be other videos tho
Atleast We still have ayy lmao
Weird because I fell behind on the show after the middle of season 2, there was a large gap between episodes the next thing I knew it was almost a 9 months and a few episodes and shorts to catch up on.
@@reifuTD This is one of the reasons they said S3 will take longer to release, they want to keep a more consistent release schedule like the back half of Season 2 had (basically monthly episodes, a break with shorts in those months, back to monthly episodes). It is legitimately really hard to follow a show when the release schedule is like, this month we have an episode, now 6 months later we have another, now 3 months we have another, now 9 months etc etc.
Basically they want to go into Season 3 with more than one episode actually mostly finished.
@@alphabloodpaw3233his videos aren’t as high quality
@canonicallygod8782 I know😭
Vizie can't write. She has scenes and images she wants to get to and a really rough idea of how to get there and characters get flanderized and plot points get ignored in subservience to the cool parts.
Time and time I'm let down by the show, but I'm too far in to quit. I need to know how it ends
I do NOT blame you. The show started out with a fantastic concept and execution, an adult show about morally ambiguous demons in hell. Awesome, right!? And then.... it turned into a poorly written teenage diary. Rushed, cringey, the characters lost any traits that originally made them hellish demons.... so many ideas and plots lost to the wind. Ive continued to watch it but every time im just so fucking disappointed. Sigh... Could have been great.
YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN A WRITER FOR THIS SHOW. You understand the flaws perfectly, I literally couldn't express it better myself. ive always had that lingering thought that the show was going downhill but not until the same episode you mentioned, with them at camp, did I start to notice the spiraling downwards trend of each episode. they introduce/tease an interesting conflict, only to take the easiest way possible out. its not interesting at all, theres no overarching narrative
the SECOND we got blitz's backstory in a short 30second wrap up I knew the set ups that were promised in season 1 were just lies. its exactly like you said, manipulation. we know blitz has this sad backstory with his mom, and now they can use that to show a little jumpscare (HIS MOMS FACE MELTING FOR 5SECONDS THEN EVERYTHINGS BACK TO NORMAL LOL). its such a wasted opportunity to flesh out his character.
the court scene was an embarrassment, its not even worth me analyzing it
I think this is a much more dignified way to handle it than the weirdos on Twitter do. Knowing a piece of media no longer serves your interests and moving away from it is sad, but freeing. I know I’ll be sticking around with your channel regardless.
Although i respect this decision, i wanna watch this man see s3 ep1 and immediately think "i gotta do a review"
I know it's probably selfish of me but I'm praying this happens
That would be very funny
Actually am pretty sure that’s gonna happen.
Saaaaaame
It’ll probably be a community post or a TH-cam short
13:09 EXACTLY!! I felt kinda manipulated by the show as I think they want us to feel bad for Stolas (and I fell for it tbh) because Octavia jumped to the conclusion that she caused his need for antidepressants not just noticing the way him and Stella interacted- it feels so odd and I hate the writing there specifically since I do love her as a character
God. Those closing words were painful to listen. Huge ass mood right there in that ending, holy shit.
People say stolas doesn’t blame himself but he does in the finale . 3 people wrote season 2 and more people will write season 4
It's been a slow decent into apathy for me. I loved the show through season 1, I didn't mind the rough and uneven parts, because I was being entertained overall. But I started falling off in season 2, because the show began to take itself way more seriously, and it's primary focus was Blitz-trauma and Stolitz. And I never cared for the ship. There were a few hits this season, somehow the Fizzerali 2 parter was awesome despjte speed running the arc. But overall, the show is making me tired to follow.
Seeing the She Ra clips made me think, they did it right. By the end of season 3, I was convinced CatrAdora shouldn't happen. Then they took one and a half seasons deconstructing Catra and putting her and Adora where they needed to be for the ship to happen. Helluva Boss just wants to smash the two toxic messes together with bare minimum effort. Like concentrating their individual problems in a couple episodes addresses who bad they are as a couple, so they can move on to being a couple. I don't want to blame it on bad writing, because the show has a lot of good writing. But their pacing is awful, and they're too quick to resolve things.
Cause Brandon rogers input was less and less as the series went on
Season 1(the best still) was mostly by his direction
This show was so funny under him, but it stopped being as comedic around ep 7 which also when they start singing a lot more
More people will write season 4
@@estelalopez6929 That just sounds like a too many cooks in the kitchen situation. More writers doesn't mean better quality.
Catra still sucks
@@averageanimefan519 i don’t like it when a lot of songwriters write one song
I think the big caveat definitely is this series being made by people who grew up on the fanfic / tumblr / art-twitter portion of the internet. They're making a show drawing from the media they enjoyed, anyone could have seen a Vivzie production was going to be a glorified fanfic a mile away. It's about setting your expectations coming into something, something I learnt with Hazbin. I expected Hazbin to be a great animated thing that would stand on it's own but it's super clear it was made from the ground up to pop it's niche hardcore fandom and *NOT* be a standalone product. I come to Helluva to turn my brain off and have my queer heart attacked, not to witness a production that will stand the test of time and inspire people to create the great works of the future. It's a high budget Salad Fingers, not Akira.
Watching them dance I just wasn’t satisfied. Cool. They’re finally together and we never see Stolas being confronted for his flaws and his behavior.
Stolas can never just do wrong it always feels like the show is always ready to make an excuse for him. Like the show is trying so hard to shove in our faces “did he mess up..? Yes.. but he’s a broken sad boy and this is why he messed up.” But Blitz is also a broken sad boy and we get a whole episode about how he’s a shitty person and his actions have consequences to him and the people he hurt.
But not Stolas.. Stolas is just a sweet heart who made a itty bitty mistake and it actually isn’t his fault.
Even when we finally have someone point out his mistakes (Octavia) it’s just treated as “a misunderstanding”