The whole second half of the video all I could think about is how bad the cycle fumbled being in that great middle between casual and hardcore I’m still not over it 😭
All I want is SPTarkov with co-op. I don't want to play against strimmers or cheaters I just want to experience the game with a friend in a PvE setting.
I can only agree with you. Everyone could play alone and if you feel like it, you just play together. Regardless of the level and the progress of the quests.
I can sympathize, but only if the characters are separate. I've tested a game (NDA) where you could grind a PvE only and then take the loot into PvP scenarios. It completely degraded the value of loot and killed the tension. Ty for watching
I don't play Tarkov currently because 1) A lot of the mechanics have simply become too detailed for me to keep track of everything, 2) You really can only currently play the game in an enjoyable state for the first week or two before the sweatiest players are back to endgame, 3) Long-running issues such as the audio, cheating, long queue times, and every match turning into a race. I liked how the Cycle had servers that ran for hours, so you could stay as long or as short as you wanted to, and that on top of the unknown factor of where exactly people might be made the game feel much more dynamic in that sense than Tarkov, despite the level of detail in Tarkov. I really want a more casual survival game or extraction shooter that feels very tight and refined in it's gunplay and mechanics, nothing on the market fits into this at the moment. I want to be able to hop into a game for 10-30 minutes and feel that I was productive in my time, or if I died and lost progress then the time spent wasn't hours of my life, like it can be in Tarkov, or DayZ, or Rust.
I bet if the Cycle decided to let players run their own servers from the get-go, it would have actually turned out much better in the long run @@thegeck0frontier . Thats one of the BIGGEST missteps in most PvP games today- If you're going to restrict players from running their own servers, you HAVE to be able to support everything that comes with networking... and a AA company like Yager, despite them having a lot more money than an indie dev, is still not even close to enough to fund the servers they needed to keep the game alive. Imagine what they couldve done if they didnt need to worry about server uptime. It's the biggets downfall of ALL multiplayer games- when the developers are required to run the servers themselves.
what keeps me away from tarkov? - cheap 1 BTK snipers - the existance of like 40 healing items for 10 types of injuries and then dying because you missed covering 1 type - secure pouch upgrades buyable with RL money (indirect pay to progress/win) - bad map design giving better players an even bigger advantage than they already have by having better gear (e.g. getting killed by snipers with no way of knowing where it came from exactly) - having to look at a spreadsheet to choose my ammo type and then still being able to put together a gun which can't load that ammo even though the mag says it fits. - realism cranked up to the max in a way it hurts the actual game for the sake of more realism - not being able to convince my friends to play it since there's 50$ paywall for a buggy mess of a game which 90% of players quit forever after a few hours.
@@xMrMayhemx Cheaters aren't much of an issue, it's people that think they die to cheaters without realizing what the game is. If you get shot from 300 yards by supressed weapon, you won't hear or know where that mans is. This is my 2nd wipe and I'm clearing labs almost every run, people just refuse to move or progress their skills in the game due to fear. It's just pixels, who cares if you lose it all learning.
@@ttk-timetokill8392 that sounds like it's your opinion and is only applicable to you. if you clear labs no problem on your second wipe you're just crazy good with a 40something card and unlimited time on your hands. this doesn't change anything for the majority of the player base and the question was about bad aspects of the game. what you're saying here is "the game is what it is and you're wrong because it is this way". this should be about what people think should be different. there are also ways to make it more accessible for everyone while still keeping the current game 100% the way it is (e.g. hardcore and normal mode) which invalidates sverything you just said. p.s. the cheater part is pure BS and you should know it.
Given the majority of comments, one of the shortcomings tarkov has is poorly communicating all of its mechanics. You've even said so yourself. How would rectify this?
I completely agree. It bugs me tht ll the extraction games i play copy tarkov's obscure mechanics. Why in both the cycle and marauders do you level up your traders? its like the devs played tarkov for a long time and forgot that these were just some weird eastern european mechanics that arent necessary.
I played tarkov a good white, even bought the edge of darkness edition, but stoped because playing because playing alone I would get wiped across the floor 70% of the raids so I gave up, I would play another tarkov like game if it had less aggressive learning curve, better matching so people level 10 don't get raped by level 35 thicc chads filled with loot and if the game developer isn't Russian
Still blows my mind that there's no MMR and players continue to defend that decision. Your experience isn't unique and I am sure plenty of dev teams are looking for ways to use that feedback. Ty for watching
I liked TheCycle Frontier a lot and I'm sad it died. I'd still be playing it, despite all of its flaws, because personally I think it did a lot of things very good. And I very much liked the setting and the world thy created. Tarkov I tried, but it seems to be awkward by design. No ingame map, a super complex healing system, you have to learn which ammo type belongs to which weapon.. why? I'm still looking for an extraction game, though . My criteria are - skill based, not gear based. Someone with better equipment should not have a significant advantage over someone with starter weapons - no "backpack tetris" or having to spend considarable time organising my stash - not too unforgiving - a generously sized safety pocket - to be able to play with a friend in the same team
Pretty common answers with regards to Tarkov. Not unreasonable asks for an extract shooter. However, gear needs value. If it doesnt matter, looting doesnt matter, then missions dont matter and then drops dont matter. IMO Gear shouldnt be broken but it shouldnt mean nothing either. SBMM is a good solution to ensure it gets evened out I think.
tarkov isnt gear based wtf are you on? i kill chads with magnum buck all the time, loot management is part of every single looter shooter, if you want unforgiving go play insurgency, and how are you not finding people to play with are you on the lfg?
Tarkov is greay but cheaters suck, that's why I don't play atm. I'd really appreciate the stalker like open world they originally advertised. Extraction is stressful 😂 but I really don't know what gamemode would suit tarkov better.
I agree. Even though Tarkov isn't for me I wouldn't want to compromise it. It's found a successful corner and I hope it can resolve its hacker issue to allow the players that are happy with to continue doing so.
@@thegeck0frontier yeah! It has a lot of mechanics that scratch that one specific itch, but I'd rather just PvE with friends. I have played around 400 hours but rather unsurprisingly the players ruin the game for me. I had the same with Elite and I played semi-offline all the time. Maybe it's just a skill issue :P However, I really like how Tarkov has given dying in a video game actual repercussions (at least at the level I usually reach) that there's actually some fear involved instead of just shrugging a death off one after another. I really hope realistic hardcore shooters make a comeback in the near future.
The thing is, the death repercussions aspect can be separated from its mil sim aspect. Mil sim games have existed, but tarkov just demonstrated that the 2 can be combined. There's no reason that the mil sim has to be attached to that. DMZ could have even more success if death had more weight. So many players were looking forward to that mode that were let down.
I won't play Tarkov or any PC based PVP FPS because there is no way to eliminate hackers. If I die I want to feel confident that it is because I'm terrible. I love co-op FPS games. My friends are all idiots like me, but they aren't cheaters.
Because Tarkov is not good. Dont get me wrong, I dont mean that Tarkov is not a good game, it clearly is as I too have played it for thousands of hours. What I am saying is that Tarkov has really really poor design in nearly all its elements. The AI, the quests, the gameplay loop, the game optimization on all fronts. If any game at all dares to take the hardcore game design of Tarkov and perfect these elements instead of making their game a casual crap shoot that no one cares about... Well, I dare say they would instantly dethrone Tarkov very easily! This is yet to happen though.
"The Cycle: Frontier" was the best of it's kind, in my opinion. It had all the things I want in extraction shooter: - game with some tension in every round - perfect balance between casual and hardcore gameplay - not too complex, yet not too simple - very short load times - you can never be sure that there are no more other players on the map because new players were spawning almost constantly on the map - at some point they decided to go for no-wipes, which is a plus in my opinion. there is nothing more frustrating in a game that to lost something because of no fault of yours, like internet connection issues. let alone lost everything because someone from developers team decided to delete all your progress in the game. - developers are not from Russia (unlike Tarkov developers) Until "EVE: Vanguard", "Marathon", "DvisionL Heathland" and "Arc raiders" released - "Hunt: Showdown" is the best extraction shooter in my opinion.
IMO, wipes are a band-aid for an econ problem. At some point people just accepted it as a must have instead of the temporary solution it was meant to be. TY for watching.
This genre of games does not survive if it gets anymore casual than Tarkov does. At its core the genre needs those who put in more time and effort to be rewarded for that effort and have a clear advantage. Cycle didnt survive long because of their lackluster game design that was trying to get casual gamers into it... I dare predict that any game on that list of yours will not do well.
You have to define "hardcore" or "casual" cause that can vary wildy on the context. IMO the hardcore or the appeal of this genre comes from the level of tension the game provides. That can be derived squarely from the value of the inventory. If its easy to get back then you can label it pretty casual IMO. Tarkov clearly has this in droves. HUNT has been very successful having just and ounce of said tension. So clearly you can get more casual than tarkov and succeed.
As a long time Destiny player I can assure you it will NOT be worth it to get into Marathon. Do not build any hype for that game. I don't come from that perspective as a Destiny fan salty about Bungie funneling money from Destiny into Marathon, but as a Tarkov player that knows what makes the extraction shooter space tick and Bungie will fail on all accounts. That, along with their extremely shady monetization practices that have been around since they split from Activision and I can assure you, Marathon will be riddled with the exact same shit.
TY for watching. In general I try not to get hyped about games unless I've gotten my hands on them or seen enough actual in game play (not promo stuff). Even if they nail it gameplay wise (to me at least), they can still botch it. The Cycle is a great example on how just a bad launch can forever cripple and ultimately kill a game.
I dont play tarkov because the Devs are some of the worst developers in the gaming industry and actively treat their customers like crap. The only way to get any kind of positive interaction with them is to be a large streamer.
Imagine thinking a game with 0 relevant anti-cheat, and 0 optimization isn't the fools good. Tarkov is the fools good. I want to tarkov to succeed, but I want a realistic extraction looter/shooter that actually works more. Who fucking cares who pulls it off? Just get it done. Tarkovs development arc is an absolute joke and should serve as a cautionary tale for future would be devs.
I can certainly sympathize. It feels really bad to be placed in matches with players with significantly more (or way less) skill. IMO SBMM has gotten a bad rap, but it's designed to prevent this. I highly recommend HUNT. IMO, its MMR is extremely precise and transparent and I've never felt like I didn't have a chance. Ty for watching
@@thegeck0frontier yea, idk last shooter i played was tarkov and occasionally i will hop on fortnite or apex for one game with buddies. But the games that win for me are mostly idie games or rts games. Shit even Chivalry which doesnt have SBMM is an amazing game. Balanced and rewarding. Not many bullshit micro transactions no payed dlc. Just a great game. Another good one is war hammer games. Just a great time to have with a couple friends. Multiplayer games are mostly dead to me. I think metas, guides, tutorials and "builds" are what ruined gaming. Nobody plays for fun anymore and its sad.
The whole second half of the video all I could think about is how bad the cycle fumbled being in that great middle between casual and hardcore
I’m still not over it 😭
All I want is SPTarkov with co-op. I don't want to play against strimmers or cheaters I just want to experience the game with a friend in a PvE setting.
I can only agree with you. Everyone could play alone and if you feel like it, you just play together. Regardless of the level and the progress of the quests.
I can sympathize, but only if the characters are separate. I've tested a game (NDA) where you could grind a PvE only and then take the loot into PvP scenarios. It completely degraded the value of loot and killed the tension. Ty for watching
I don't play Tarkov currently because 1) A lot of the mechanics have simply become too detailed for me to keep track of everything, 2) You really can only currently play the game in an enjoyable state for the first week or two before the sweatiest players are back to endgame, 3) Long-running issues such as the audio, cheating, long queue times, and every match turning into a race.
I liked how the Cycle had servers that ran for hours, so you could stay as long or as short as you wanted to, and that on top of the unknown factor of where exactly people might be made the game feel much more dynamic in that sense than Tarkov, despite the level of detail in Tarkov.
I really want a more casual survival game or extraction shooter that feels very tight and refined in it's gunplay and mechanics, nothing on the market fits into this at the moment. I want to be able to hop into a game for 10-30 minutes and feel that I was productive in my time, or if I died and lost progress then the time spent wasn't hours of my life, like it can be in Tarkov, or DayZ, or Rust.
Id be willing to bet the majority of players that would be play an extract game agree with you.
I bet if the Cycle decided to let players run their own servers from the get-go, it would have actually turned out much better in the long run @@thegeck0frontier . Thats one of the BIGGEST missteps in most PvP games today- If you're going to restrict players from running their own servers, you HAVE to be able to support everything that comes with networking... and a AA company like Yager, despite them having a lot more money than an indie dev, is still not even close to enough to fund the servers they needed to keep the game alive.
Imagine what they couldve done if they didnt need to worry about server uptime. It's the biggets downfall of ALL multiplayer games- when the developers are required to run the servers themselves.
The goat 😤
what keeps me away from tarkov?
- cheap 1 BTK snipers
- the existance of like 40 healing items for 10 types of injuries and then dying because you missed covering 1 type
- secure pouch upgrades buyable with RL money (indirect pay to progress/win)
- bad map design giving better players an even bigger advantage than they already have by having better gear (e.g. getting killed by snipers with no way of knowing where it came from exactly)
- having to look at a spreadsheet to choose my ammo type and then still being able to put together a gun which can't load that ammo even though the mag says it fits.
- realism cranked up to the max in a way it hurts the actual game for the sake of more realism
- not being able to convince my friends to play it since there's 50$ paywall for a buggy mess of a game which 90% of players quit forever after a few hours.
oh yeah... i forgot rampant cheater problems and the game being fun for 3 weeks after reset and then being borderline unplayable for "newer" (aka
@@xMrMayhemx Cheaters aren't much of an issue, it's people that think they die to cheaters without realizing what the game is. If you get shot from 300 yards by supressed weapon, you won't hear or know where that mans is. This is my 2nd wipe and I'm clearing labs almost every run, people just refuse to move or progress their skills in the game due to fear. It's just pixels, who cares if you lose it all learning.
@@ttk-timetokill8392 that sounds like it's your opinion and is only applicable to you. if you clear labs no problem on your second wipe you're just crazy good with a 40something card and unlimited time on your hands. this doesn't change anything for the majority of the player base and the question was about bad aspects of the game. what you're saying here is "the game is what it is and you're wrong because it is this way". this should be about what people think should be different. there are also ways to make it more accessible for everyone while still keeping the current game 100% the way it is (e.g. hardcore and normal mode) which invalidates sverything you just said.
p.s. the cheater part is pure BS and you should know it.
Random question, what region do you play tarkov on?@@ttk-timetokill8392
Given the majority of comments, one of the shortcomings tarkov has is poorly communicating all of its mechanics. You've even said so yourself. How would rectify this?
congrats, very well made video
Ty. Much appreciated
I completely agree. It bugs me tht ll the extraction games i play copy tarkov's obscure mechanics.
Why in both the cycle and marauders do you level up your traders? its like the devs played tarkov for a long time and forgot that these were just some weird eastern european mechanics that arent necessary.
I mean it makes sense to give some level of progression, the other option is limiting things behind either resources or character level.
What other progression mechanics would like to see instead?
I play tarkov, and I think I will jump onto the gray zone
Ty for watching. If I may ask, why exactly?
I played tarkov a good white, even bought the edge of darkness edition, but stoped because playing because playing alone I would get wiped across the floor 70% of the raids so I gave up, I would play another tarkov like game if it had less aggressive learning curve, better matching so people level 10 don't get raped by level 35 thicc chads filled with loot and if the game developer isn't Russian
Still blows my mind that there's no MMR and players continue to defend that decision. Your experience isn't unique and I am sure plenty of dev teams are looking for ways to use that feedback. Ty for watching
I liked TheCycle Frontier a lot and I'm sad it died. I'd still be playing it, despite all of its flaws, because personally I think it did a lot of things very good. And I very much liked the setting and the world thy created.
Tarkov I tried, but it seems to be awkward by design. No ingame map, a super complex healing system, you have to learn which ammo type belongs to which weapon.. why?
I'm still looking for an extraction game, though . My criteria are
- skill based, not gear based. Someone with better equipment should not have a significant advantage over someone with starter weapons
- no "backpack tetris" or having to spend considarable time organising my stash
- not too unforgiving - a generously sized safety pocket
- to be able to play with a friend in the same team
Pretty common answers with regards to Tarkov. Not unreasonable asks for an extract shooter. However, gear needs value. If it doesnt matter, looting doesnt matter, then missions dont matter and then drops dont matter. IMO Gear shouldnt be broken but it shouldnt mean nothing either. SBMM is a good solution to ensure it gets evened out I think.
tarkov isnt gear based wtf are you on? i kill chads with magnum buck all the time, loot management is part of every single looter shooter, if you want unforgiving go play insurgency, and how are you not finding people to play with are you on the lfg?
@@philippedrosi1335 Thanks for your kind and relaxed reply.
Tbh the cycle is far more based on the gear you have then tarkov ever was.@@Feuerfing3r
@@deezboyeed6764 As I said, TCF had some flaws and one was rhat the gear was way too strong imho. Last season this was much better though.
Tarkov is greay but cheaters suck, that's why I don't play atm. I'd really appreciate the stalker like open world they originally advertised. Extraction is stressful 😂 but I really don't know what gamemode would suit tarkov better.
I agree. Even though Tarkov isn't for me I wouldn't want to compromise it. It's found a successful corner and I hope it can resolve its hacker issue to allow the players that are happy with to continue doing so.
@@thegeck0frontier yeah! It has a lot of mechanics that scratch that one specific itch, but I'd rather just PvE with friends. I have played around 400 hours but rather unsurprisingly the players ruin the game for me. I had the same with Elite and I played semi-offline all the time. Maybe it's just a skill issue :P
However, I really like how Tarkov has given dying in a video game actual repercussions (at least at the level I usually reach) that there's actually some fear involved instead of just shrugging a death off one after another. I really hope realistic hardcore shooters make a comeback in the near future.
The thing is, the death repercussions aspect can be separated from its mil sim aspect. Mil sim games have existed, but tarkov just demonstrated that the 2 can be combined. There's no reason that the mil sim has to be attached to that. DMZ could have even more success if death had more weight. So many players were looking forward to that mode that were let down.
It would literally have to be tarkov but open world with base building.
I won't play Tarkov or any PC based PVP FPS because there is no way to eliminate hackers. If I die I want to feel confident that it is because I'm terrible. I love co-op FPS games. My friends are all idiots like me, but they aren't cheaters.
Because Tarkov is not good. Dont get me wrong, I dont mean that Tarkov is not a good game, it clearly is as I too have played it for thousands of hours.
What I am saying is that Tarkov has really really poor design in nearly all its elements. The AI, the quests, the gameplay loop, the game optimization on all fronts.
If any game at all dares to take the hardcore game design of Tarkov and perfect these elements instead of making their game a casual crap shoot that no one cares about... Well, I dare say they would instantly dethrone Tarkov very easily! This is yet to happen though.
Just a point of clarification: when you say "Tarkovs hardcore game design" what are you referring to specifically? Thanks for watching
Escape from Tarkov. More like Escape from Cheaters
"The Cycle: Frontier" was the best of it's kind, in my opinion. It had all the things I want in extraction shooter:
- game with some tension in every round
- perfect balance between casual and hardcore gameplay - not too complex, yet not too simple
- very short load times
- you can never be sure that there are no more other players on the map because new players were spawning almost constantly on the map
- at some point they decided to go for no-wipes, which is a plus in my opinion. there is nothing more frustrating in a game that to lost something because of no fault of yours, like internet connection issues. let alone lost everything because someone from developers team decided to delete all your progress in the game.
- developers are not from Russia (unlike Tarkov developers)
Until "EVE: Vanguard", "Marathon", "DvisionL Heathland" and "Arc raiders" released - "Hunt: Showdown" is the best extraction shooter in my opinion.
IMO, wipes are a band-aid for an econ problem. At some point people just accepted it as a must have instead of the temporary solution it was meant to be. TY for watching.
This genre of games does not survive if it gets anymore casual than Tarkov does. At its core the genre needs those who put in more time and effort to be rewarded for that effort and have a clear advantage. Cycle didnt survive long because of their lackluster game design that was trying to get casual gamers into it... I dare predict that any game on that list of yours will not do well.
You have to define "hardcore" or "casual" cause that can vary wildy on the context. IMO the hardcore or the appeal of this genre comes from the level of tension the game provides. That can be derived squarely from the value of the inventory. If its easy to get back then you can label it pretty casual IMO. Tarkov clearly has this in droves. HUNT has been very successful having just and ounce of said tension. So clearly you can get more casual than tarkov and succeed.
As a long time Destiny player I can assure you it will NOT be worth it to get into Marathon. Do not build any hype for that game. I don't come from that perspective as a Destiny fan salty about Bungie funneling money from Destiny into Marathon, but as a Tarkov player that knows what makes the extraction shooter space tick and Bungie will fail on all accounts. That, along with their extremely shady monetization practices that have been around since they split from Activision and I can assure you, Marathon will be riddled with the exact same shit.
TY for watching. In general I try not to get hyped about games unless I've gotten my hands on them or seen enough actual in game play (not promo stuff). Even if they nail it gameplay wise (to me at least), they can still botch it. The Cycle is a great example on how just a bad launch can forever cripple and ultimately kill a game.
I dont play tarkov because the Devs are some of the worst developers in the gaming industry and actively treat their customers like crap. The only way to get any kind of positive interaction with them is to be a large streamer.
Tarkov footsteps destroy everything. Give me The Cycle back"!!!! And cheaters. too many weak ass CHEATERS.
GECK0 IS THE GOAT
You are too kind. Much Appreciated.
You forgot ghost of tabor just because it is available VR game doesn’t make it any different
You are 100% correct. I appreciate the call out and thanks for watching
Imagine thinking a game with 0 relevant anti-cheat, and 0 optimization isn't the fools good. Tarkov is the fools good.
I want to tarkov to succeed, but I want a realistic extraction looter/shooter that actually works more.
Who fucking cares who pulls it off? Just get it done.
Tarkovs development arc is an absolute joke and should serve as a cautionary tale for future would be devs.
No 3rd person extract games please...
Why? 1/3rd pov exists in basically every game genre. What makes extracts different?
@@thegeck0frontier No 3rd person only games ever. I dont play with dolls on a screen. I want to be the eyes in the game.
Only shooter id play is pve no point playing against meta abusers, cheaters and those virgin slide canceling tryhards. Nobody plays for fun anymore.
I can certainly sympathize. It feels really bad to be placed in matches with players with significantly more (or way less) skill. IMO SBMM has gotten a bad rap, but it's designed to prevent this. I highly recommend HUNT. IMO, its MMR is extremely precise and transparent and I've never felt like I didn't have a chance. Ty for watching
@@thegeck0frontier yea, idk last shooter i played was tarkov and occasionally i will hop on fortnite or apex for one game with buddies. But the games that win for me are mostly idie games or rts games. Shit even Chivalry which doesnt have SBMM is an amazing game. Balanced and rewarding. Not many bullshit micro transactions no payed dlc. Just a great game. Another good one is war hammer games. Just a great time to have with a couple friends. Multiplayer games are mostly dead to me. I think metas, guides, tutorials and "builds" are what ruined gaming. Nobody plays for fun anymore and its sad.