Many in the comments are offering theories about or wondering why 3/8" is more powerful than 1/2" talking about mass and other things. Well I feel like we overall showed it's not (see 1822 nano and Hercules purchase using the same 1/2" and 3/8" sockets), but being the same is also interesting and new data. The anvil mass difference is after all less than 0.1lbs. The Milwaukee seems to be exception, and maybe a rare one as other channels have noticed. We (and apparently Milwaukee) have no idea why. 3/8" flies under the radar a bit but with the socket options now-a-days and the power some of these make it shouldn't. It's no longer your fathers power tools out there where smaller drive size means no beans. Here's hoping more brands offer 3/8" in mid size impacts (DeWalt, you listening?) Torque of TTC is working for Astro Tools who also make the 1822 Nano impact in this video. TTC is not the only testing out there, always consider multiple sources when looking at a tool!
Smaller drive sizes are so much more versatile. I special ordered 1/4" proto sockets up to a 17mm and 3/8" proto sockets up to a 29, so that I can spend the least amount of time swapping drive tools and less effective area taken up.
@@EclecticBuddha specialty/custom manufacturing is a massive worldwide industry... if youve got the money, you can get a company to make you anyting you desire... boeing will make you a custom 747 if you got the money... you think its hard to get someone to make you a custom sized chunk of steel? lol sorry, not trying to bash you, i just fond it kinda funny, coming from a manufacturing background...
The next step I would be trying, would be swapping the 1/2 & 3/8 anvils between the 2 & see if the results follow the anvil, or the units. In the same way as you did with the air drive.
I would first like to see a reducer put on the bolt (ie. down to 19mm) and he uses short 3/8 and 1/2 sockets from the same manufacturer. I don't like how much wobble the long socket creates at the anvil at higher torque seems like maybe torque is being wasted.
Care is needed because there are so many variables. Things like temperature can make a difference. There is no physics reason why anvil size should mark any difference.
The "larger mass" here is like 0.1lbs. If anything this vid has said they are about the same power. Milwaukee being the exception is what everyone is focusing on though, in which case we (and Milwaukee) have no idea. Harmonic resonance would be my shot in the dark
@@Nick_Gir because the mass is all on the center axis. If you look at the IR weighted socket that TTC tested, it has that outer ring to add mass, and you’ll notice that the ring is away from the central axis. If you look at the units of torque (ft•lbs for us in the states), if you have the same force (lbs), but a longer lever arm (ft), you’ll generate more torque, because torque is the product of distance and force.
I skip 3/8 and just have 1/4" and 1/2". 3/8" really only makes sense for people who only want the midrange... (after 1/2" should one go 3/4" or just jump to 1" wrench sets - for really bid stuff.. lol)
@@daveunknown01 : Note that "this-here-test" is only showing the power impact drivers torque capacity is the same, not the strength of the wrenching ecosystem. There are other advantages / disadvantages to specific drive sizes.... (all it shows is the companies appear to rip people off on the Battery powered, 1/2 drive size "Impact Wrenches" when all that is needed is a drive adapter. ) - for workshop use Air tools are cheaper and often just as handy...
@@kadmow I have a 2 foot long breaker bar and a torque multiplier for anything I can't get off with a 1/2" impact. When working with stuff that big it's good to have manual input so you can feel if something is going to break or not.
@@nickmac5953 I do the same for running LMDP’s and MCP’s , impact 1/2” adapter with 3/4” socket ... takes it like a champ , especially great for small places too
Im guessing it depends on the fit? The more wobble the less torque but if welded, would actually make more torque like what we've seen from Shop Tool Reviews
TH-cam won't let me tag torque test channel. Get this info to them please! User Myki Langridge said "The next step I would be trying, would be swapping the 1 /2 & 3/8 anvils between the 2 & see if the results follow the anvil, or the units. In the same way as you did with the air drive."
@@lntrlp4936 it's not a "growing community". It's "helping community grow". Meaning be more knowledgeable in their own tools and how they should use, which they should use, and which they should buy. They're giving people the knowledge to choose based on facts. Not " this seems faster/more powerful". Because what "feels" better/faster/more powerful isn't always actually better/faster/more powerful.
My guess for why 3/8" is better in some cases despite everything being seemingly the same is resonance: the smaller shaft has more springiness, which allows the anvil to have more rebound and hit harder once it gets in that zone while the 1/2" does better at rust-busting from the extra rigidity transferring more of the sharp initial impact to the fastener instead of being softened by elastic shaft deformation.
As a retired mechanic I can tell you a 1/2" drive will last longer under high torque use than a 3/8" drive will. I've snapped the square drive off of many 3/8" drives. I have never snapped off a 1/2" drive. It boils down to the right tool for the job.
I bought an M18 Fuel 3/8" impact 3 or 4 years ago and used it for most impact jobs Including outboard flywheel nuts, rusted wheel lugs and other rusted trailer parts. Salt water is to boat trailers, engines and other boat hardware as road salt is to automotive world. My 1/2" CP air impact is probably 45 years old, came with me from the auto industry to marine and has been rebuilt probably 4 times. Our shop air leaves a lot to be desired and I am a lot more mobile than in the past. I still needed the air for some situations. I recently replaced both with M18 fuel gen 3 I think they are called. I bought them because they are shorter and the added gain was more power. I also bought m12 Fuel screw gun, 1/4" impact driver and 1/2" drill with the smaller 3AH batterys. I wanted the 12 for the smaller size for tight access and the power and batterys have been more than adequate for my work. I almost never run down batteries before the day or the job is done. In my world battery tools are now king but in auto and heavy equipment repair I would imagine battery has it's place but air is probably still king.
Glad you guys took this to task. Never understood the myth of 1/2" hitting harder in the same tool. It's the same tool. I only went 1/2" with the M12 since my specialty tools fit that size.
You guys are leaving me perplexed. I was always told the larger mass of the 1/2" anvil hits harder therefore delivering more torque. Apparently you proved that wrong 👍🏽
The mass of the hammer inside the gun is what matters most, and a gun that ships as a 1/2 anvil might have a larger hammer than a more compact 3/8 anvil gun.
@@henrikforsberg683 Could it be WHERE the weight is? Anvil is in the centerline of rotation. Weighted sockets have mass concentrated at the edge where the angular velocity is higher.
I use this 3/8 impact driver. I love it. I've removed 36mm axle nuts without an issue. I don't even own a 1/2" impact driver to be honest. I have the Snap On adaptor set. I'm good with that.
The only reason why I ever thought someone would choose 1/2in over 3/8in was so things don't break. I've definitely broken a number of 3/8 breaker bars but not equally cheap 1/2 bars. they always broke right at the end.
I must say this is one of your best videos. I saw your comment in Project Farm. In my opinion, TTC and Project Farm are the best tool channels in TH-cam. Thanks for your honesty, jokes and info saving me a ton of money.
Yes, 2 of the greats! "Just give the data" type channels. It still amazes me when you see a comment here, or over at PF and someone still says "what's the best? You didn't say what the best was" .
I bought the 3/8” mid torque gen 2 few months ago and it’s great, I had no idea it was any more capable than the 1/2” on the contrary I thought by sepc that the 1/2” is little bit better but I wanted it be used on wider range of bolts and nuts & 3/8 was better fit for me, nice to see it is the more capable version of the two (not that the 1/2” is weak by any means).
I absolutely love my Milwaukee 3/8” mid torque. Used it for a long time and it’s my go to for 90% of jobs. I have the 3/4 with a step down adapter when I really need to give something the beans.
I used th-cam.com/users/postUgkx4ynqaujg7rZKFapA8s29kTpRszJGa3-K this for the first time today to replace the front wheel bearing on my rwd 98 dodge dakota. This had absolutely no issue removing or reinstalling the lug nuts and it took off the axle nut without any struggle. Sounds like it's got some muscle to it. Time will tell
Makes sense when most 3/8" drive sockets are lighter than their 1/2" versions, meaning more power to nut busting and less socket weight to throw, hence 1/2" has an advantage in initial torque.
Aaaaand, THAT'S WHY I finally broke down & grabbed the 3/8" Milwaukee right angle impact wrench, instead of the 1/2"....as well as the Kobalt... Seriously, I LOVE that you did this video, because it definitely confirmed what I'd deduced...(ok...."suspected"), just based on combing thru COUNTLESS HOURS of clips from you & other contributing channels, researching, while trying to decide which tools to buy. Thanks for the confirmation (&, everything else you all do, which is all INCREDIBLY HELPFUL to people like me). Y'all are THE BEST!💯☺️👍🏼
@user-gt7xz8lh4d SOLID on brake jobs, but haven't tried on any suspension related bolts... although, I can't imagine it'd many limitations). SIL got a flat, a few miles from home, a while back & battery for my 1/2" impact dead, so took the M12 3/8" right angle with & zipped his legs right off, no problem . Granted, not what it's intended for, but definitely adequate in a pinch.
As there is a bit of movement between the socket and the tool, and as the ultimate torque that an impact wrench makes is directly related to the shorter duration of the impact, it is not surprising that an anvil with slightly less mass would be accelerated slightly faster and produce slightly higher numbers on the top end all other factors being equal.
TTC also collab'ed with them and tested the reworked tool output. In that case, I believe it was the increased rpm motor design coupled with the harder hitting anvil setup
The Milwaukee Right Angle Fuel advertises the 3/8 and 1/2 with the same spec's and the same price; IOW it's the same tool only a different anvil. My guess is it's the same with many other manufacturers, which explains why there's little difference between the two. Further, the 20v Atomic DeWalt 1/2 stubby impact wrench has the same torque rating as the Atomic 3/8, but the 1/2 costs $100 more. I guess it's all about marketing.
Just anecdotally I use the fuel 3/4 at work and another guy has the heavy duty 1/2" that's exactly the same except for the anvil. Never ran into an application where one outhit the other and it has come up where we've used both to try to bust bolts loose.
Man I’ve always been taught from old guys the hammer and socket weight was king. Learn something every day. Crazy in 2021 there is still info needed to be found
@@HoosierDaddy_ The result is different indeed. I only use the lightest one (90 Nm), that way the torque spread doesnt really matter. Lug nuts are generally torque to anywhere between 120-180 Nm. Even if the torque using the torque stick differs by +/- 20 Nm (70-110 Nm), its still sufficient for what Im doing with it. At least its not possible to overtighten the screw anymore. After using the torque stick on the lift, I torque the lugnuts to spec using a torque wrench when the car is back on the ground. PS: I would be also very interested in a decent torque stick dyno test!
Great to see experience quantified! I've done this test 'in the field' over the last few years, and the only difference I've ever seen is the ability to handle whatever socket was available/appropriate at the time. DATA WINS!
Well the weight of the socket is definetly . I think that the 3/8 socket will have more weight due to the smaller hole. And the smaller anvil even at the same torqure will have a higher rpm which im sure counts for something
My initial thoughts after watching this come to three questions: 1) How do the 1/4" impact wrenches in same/similar-sized models compare to their larger drive siblings? 2) If they fall into the same max torque range would they be capable of consistently snapping, shearing or otherwise breaking fasteners associated with the smallest 1/4" impact sockets/drivers commercially available? (much like the higher torque impact drivers were previously doing to socket adapters) 3) Ignoring tool/anvil longevity, and compatibility with existing tool sets that may already be owned; would the answers to the first two questions reduce or eliminate needs for buying either a 3/8" or 1/4" impact wrenches? (in certain torque ranges) For example: If a 1/4" can deliver same/similar max torque as a 3/8" it'd raise questions about buying a 3/8" impact - particularly if/when a 1/4" impact wrench is paired with a 1/2" high torque impact wrench for larger fasteners. However, if the 1/4" impact would consistently snap fasteners associated with sockets below what is commercially available in a 3/8" drive size the 1/4" impact may not have much added utility vs. the 3/8". The Milwaukee M12 stubby line up of impacts and the various power ratchets comes to mind as a possible example despite the differing specs of the 1/4" versions. The joys of experimentation for every "answer" found more questions arise....
Its not. Because the masses are different. The 3/8 drive has less mass than the 1/2 drive. The effect were seeing here is caused by an interaction between the motors torque curve and the anvil mass. The motor seems to struggle at the last bit of the dyno test, because the 1/2" anvil seems to be a little too heavy for it to max out.
@Chris Another possible explanation is the length of the 1/2 socket creating a wobble at the anvil and torque loss when the bolt gets harder to turn (since he is not holding the impact wrench securely). The 3/8 socket is short and does not have the same issue. You can see the difference in wobble in the video.
If you changed the output gear on anything else you wouldn't say that. Im guessing it's relevant to the impact motion being different to a steady load and flex in the metal, and the small amount of extra mass.
@@Chris-yy7qc would the mass actually be different? Think about it, if it’s the same size socket they’ll still have almost the same volume the difference will be the 1/2 will have more weight in the anvil and the 3/8 will have more in the socket. Maybe? Edits: my best guess would be something with harmonics, still don’t see mass being a factor for the reason previously mentioned
When I wrenched (Like 2+ decades ago) I was the only guy in the shop using a 3/8" impact, in this case, Snatch-on's best one at the time. I got endlessly razzed for it but the thing had major beans on 2-stage full shop air (we'd cranked the pressure cutoff switch on the compressors unbeknownst to management). I found it worked very well when doing suspension work as it fit where my fellow mechanics' 1/2" impacts could not. Sorta wild that today I have a battery impact and ratchet and could not be happier for my at-home use.
I have both of the mid torque wrenches and the only difference I have found in power is the availability of bigger sockets for the 3/8 wrench. Really like them both.
Maybe at the beginning of the curve, the 1/2" transfers more momentum, like the heavy sockets do. But at the top end, the 3/8" is robbing less power because it's lighter? Big burly V8, low end torque, vs high RPM 4 cylinder generating more power?
@@chasewebber4316 would be interesting to compare the hammer masses and moments of inertia between anvil sizes. Bigger hammer / anvil hits harder but maybe at a lower speed, so less power is output? Just speculation...
I went with my gut and got the 3/8 stubby because i already had a impact socket set in that size, so glad that I’m not losing power because that was eating me alive not knowing if whether or not the 1/2 had better performance. Thanks for this video
There is a lot that goes into that. Less mass more speed. More mass less speed etc etc. being a mechanic for 17 years I’ve been around a lot of impacts. Some things 3/8s will not do a 1/2 with a heavier socket gets it done. Same goes for 3/4 and 1 inch. For the longest time I only used a 1/2 impact and had a reducer so I could use a 3/8s socket. Each impact has its place. I could go on and on.
I work on heavy equipment, and a mid toque 1/2” has never crossed my mind. My co-workers and and myself all have high torque 1/2” Milwaukee and the 3/8” high torque if you wanna call it that. Seems to be the best set up. I like the smaller profile of a 3/8” socket for most applications. Also the profile of a 3/8” impact wobble socket. Great channel btw!
Okay folks!!! After 3 weeks of research I purchased the 1/2" Milwaukee Impact wrench 6922-20 $189 and 1/2" High end Milwaukee socket set $139 2 weeks ago and they arrived 3 days ago. I watched this video the day after I received the products. Boy was I upset. I went into denial and started making stuff up to justify my purchase per my comments below. But then after further research and sleeping on it for a day, I pulled the trigger and shipped back my 1/2" purchases then per this video, purchased the Milwaukee 3/8" 6920-20 and comparable Milwaukee 3/8" socket set. I want to thank you and suggest to set up a contribution option.
A test I would really like to see, is does the torque output change if you hold the socket and twist in the direction that you are impacting so that it does not rebound or jump around? I've had bolts that just would not come loose during impacting that then did when you applied a little bit of twist to the socket to keep it tightly engaged on the fastener
In the heavy duty body shop I work in, I typically use the 1/4"impact for screws, nuts, bolts upto 5/8"fasteners w/3/8" socket drive adapter. If I had 3/8"impact driver, I'd likely stop at 11mm/7/16" with the 1/4"impact driver (as I frequently have to change to an air-powered 3/8" impact anyways.). Only because my batry-po'erd arsenal is a little bit light, do I not switch to 3/8" sooner than I typically do. If I had a batry-po'erd 3/8"impact, I likely wouldn't use it on anything above 3/4"-13/16"freedom units, cause that puts undue stress on the tool. Did I ever tell about the time I happened to be wearing eye protection when my 1/2" impact Literally Grenaded, deeply scaring the right lens of my favorite safety glasses.?! I was beating the sh!t out of something I didn't want to walk back to my toolbox and 3/4"impact stuff for. It cut my right cheek too. Had to take time off, had to file workman's comp..
Before watching I imagine 3/8" will perform better than 1/2" because of less rotating mass - the same reason why if you put wheels/tires on your car that weigh less than the ones currently on it - you will see a gain in MPGs because there's less energy used to propel them and more power can be used to move the lesser weighted wheels.
great video, I knew there was difference just had no idea it was this, I am in Canada and just bought the Makita mid torque XWT17 1/2" drive and love it, i do own mostly 1/2" sockets from my jobs over the years and just use adapters to size down to any smaller jobs that have smaller hardware, and don not require big torque and this new Makita with the many power levels it allows me to do almost anything with it, i also have a Makita 1/4" driver as part of a set, been using Makita for almost 20 yrs and don't see any need or reason to change and the warranty/service is awesome great video and good info to know when i go to purchase the next thing a cordless ratchet , i will wait they are suppose to be upgrading them in the near future i heard from an Aussie friend of mine 👍
Surprising, and great information. I would be curious to know how durability and anvil mass compare. I would have guessed the 1/2" would transfer torque better but at these powers it doesn't seem to matter.
This video was very shocking to me. A shocking experience I've had that's similar to this is when I used a M12 impact driver to remove lugnuts off of my 2011 civic with a 3/8 adapter, it pulled them right off no problem but my father's 20V DeWalt couldn't take even one off. Now his is definitely beat up and has a lot more use on it but I was shocked to see that a 12v tool was out performing a 20V
thats very interesting, i got the 1/2". but in reality nothing on a vehicle should stand in the way, not surprised at the axle nut on the other vid, along with a crank bolt those are some of the tightest torques you should see(not counting corrosion) and those might see 200-300 ft lbs.
In my 35+yrs in the automotive industry, I've swapped anvils on different tools when available, if a particular task warranted such a swap. Generally, I will only make such a swap on an impact driver because I found that swapping the 3/8anvil for a 1/2anvil is at least a minor tool-castration. Not surprised by the Milwaukee 'Revelation'. My most successful swap was an older 3/8 Matco impact driver that I temporarily swapped out for the 1/2anvil. While I lost a little bit of the tools output, the 1/2anvil eventually sheared off inside the housing. I repaired it and still have it. It still hits above it's weight class.
@@TorqueTestChannel It could be a variety of things. It could hit max RPM with the 1/2" already, due to amperage limitations, discharge of motor limits, hell, could be governed electronically. The Nano could've also been slightly impeded by being overly greased, slight differences causing a different level of 'bite' between anvils, or that pneumatics hit at the same strength due to using a constant line pressure and not electric batteries that can vary their output. The only way to check would be to find or make oddball sizes for them, where you can also test 1/4 and 3/4" variants. Milwaukee's construction could just be one that hits harder than expected because, for durability reasons, they engineer them stronger for 1/2" drive to allow for more power and performance-which the 3/8" gobbles up as it requires less power to turn. Build the 1/2" first, and make them all to that spec. Instead, the Hercules could've been built 3/8" to 1/2", and so the 3/8" was already working at peak. I'm kinda surprised because I'd figure surface area would end up becoming a factor. Constant pressure across a larger area means more power, whereas that same pressure across a smaller one has lower power. It could be that any 'gains' from speed would be evened out on a pneumatic, but the only way to tell would be a LOT of testing. I'm just spitballing though, so...grain of salt?
@@TorqueTestChannel my only answer is just a probability, that they use a cheaper motor to account for the cheaper cost. Something in there is not the same quality as the more expensive product
I bought the 1/2 drive M12(yes, Twelve) Milwaukee impact for work(non-automotive) It easily removed the lug nuts on all my trucks. That included two old C30’s, a K5, & a Ram 1500. Very happy with performance and lighter weight than the M18 or other brands.
My perspective on this this comes from engine performance. With ICEs, HP (work) is torque × RPM. A big torquey V8 that makes 400ftlbs but only revs to 4500 might make 250HP, and has the torque to do work down low like towing (Like how 1/2" guns do better breaking through rust or stripped fasteners that won't move) Whereas a smaller V8 making 250ftlbs but revving over 7500rpm might make 400hp, doing even more work faster and hitting higher top speeds than the torquey V8 even with lower torque figures. (3/8" anvil swapped from 1/2" tightening clean bolts with little resistance even tighter due to lower rotating mass, increasing speed or blows per minute) Obviously these are the same guns just with different anvils, so the difference isn't huge but they do seem to follow that logic
For this specific situation it would be interesting to see if the results are the same if you used a 3/8 to 1/2" adapter thats not welded instead of a custom socket because in the real world most of us are not going to buy custom sockets and would just use an adapter. I know you referenced the other videos but im curious if the results would be the same which the may just be.
I would think the 1/2 anvil would be less prone to fracture than the 3/8 (thus giving the impression of more strength AND torque), but it also makes sense to me that the high end torque would be greater for the 3/8 than the 1/2 because the anvil for the 3/8 is lighter. Since the motor of the 3/8 is doing less work moving the anvil, it should have a few more seeds (assumed smaller than beans) to give the test setup. Further, since there would be excess torque available at the lower end of the curve, the motor should be able to drive the 1/2 anvil at a similar speed to the 3/8, thus delivering more torque than the 3/8 because it's moving the higher mass 1/2 anvil a distance similar to the 3/8. I wonder if the 1/2 anvil end was cut off (still allow safe engagement WITHOUT pushing harder into the socket during the test) to reduce the anvil mass whether the curve would look more like the 3/8? My explanation doesn't work for the Harbor Freight unless the anvils were the same weight or they were actually different internals. Maybe it's because they are providing much less torque so it's less evident?
interesting video! I've found this to be the case a few times myself where i have both 3/8th and half in models of the same tool the 3/8 seemed to right on par if not better. But i couldn't quantify it and always assumed it was just bias/some coincidence. heres a thought. is there any chance having a smaller anvil makes the output rotating mass of the anvil smaller in relation to the total mass being rotated on the socket allows it generate slightly more power? for example if i used a 1' socket but the drive was the same 1' diameter I would assume the rotating mass of the socket would be greatly mitigated because its not rotating outside of the diameter of the drive itself. kind of like how bigger wheels on a car can reduce torque and throw off gearing.
All the more reason I was happy to buy three of the astro 1828s. One for me, and two more for good friends of mine. It doesn't help that the 1/2" drive is just as available as the Thor version. Same gun, different size anvil.
I've always used a smaller drive when possible as it's usually lighter, costs less and fits easier in tighter places. Bought a 1/4" drive impact and electric ratchet from Matco several years ago and those things certainly earned their keep and paid themselves off in no time (this is before electric impacts took over from air impacts and were still in their infancy) So last year after some tools that were in my truck were stolen (along with my truck) I decided to finally bite the bullet and buy into the Milwaulkee lineup and got an M18 drill and impact driver combo, a multi tool, and an M12 fuel 3/8" stubby impact. That 3/8" stubby impact is quite the little beast. It'll rip off standard truck lugnuts with no issue! Just for shits and giggles I'll have to see if it can even make a dent on Mack Truck lugnut lol (that'd be a lot of adapters too though)
Idk I use 3/8s for basically everything as related to ratchets so I do like to have a compact or mid torque in 3/8s just to not have to make any extra effort but I do see the value in having a 1/2inch
I have the 3/8 that they tested, and then the High Torque 1/2. Don't use the 1/2 often, but it has its place when needed. Usually use the 3/8 though. I do want to still get the 3/8 stubby impact for those tight spaces.
I noticed this lately with makita. I bought a large body half inch impact that turned out to be the same motor amp size as my buddies with a 3/4 hammer in it. The 3/4 seems to have way more bag. However I’ve not used them side by side. Just using them in similar situations.
My hypothesis behind this would show that when using a 1/2 inch it’ll get up to a higher power quicker as the 1/2 inch has more weight therefore will create more momentum. Whereas when trying to get those extra beans at the end it take less torque to get the smaller 3/8 drive spinning as it weighs less therefore you can get those couple extra foot pounds.
whatever extra energy gets put into the heavier object is being used to overcome the extra resistance to changes in its motion (Newton's 1st Law). exactly why a pebble and boulder dropped from the tower of pizza hit the ground at the same time despite gravity exherting so much more force on the heavier rock.
I bought both 1/2" and 3/8" in Milwaukee s new gen and find I use the 1/2" more then the 3/8" even though the 3/8" surprises me from time to time. The things the 3/8" will take off is shocking butt when I'm pulling craddle bolts I find the 3/8 can't do it but that 1/2" can . I believe it is the larger socket Mass and lower Dynamic torque of the 1/2" impact . The phenomenon that you are explaining can be seen with 1/4" impact drivers taking off lug nuts with a bunch of reducers vs a 3/8" that won't do because of a wimpy thin wall 3/8 socket . Design of impact screw driver and impact are different as well but there s plenty of dingle berries out there using a 10lb socket on there 1/4" screw impact drive to rotate there tires.
Remember that scene from the Matrix where Neo says "We need guns. Lots of guns." and you see those racks up on racks? That's pretty much what the TTC collection looks like.
I almost bought a 1/2 inch mid torque because the 3/8 didn’t want to bust rust. So glad I waited to see the real beans, I also didn’t know the mid torque is that close to its advertised power
I remember the early days of 3/8 air impact guns, they were a waste of money and time, unless you were doing assembly work and needed low torque. Great video, great tests, happy new subscriber.
Milwaukee 3/8" and 1/2" mid range impacts are the same IPM and RPM. Both models use the same size motor. However, we know that the Torque formula is T = R x Force. If we use the same motor mechanism, a 3/8" is for a general duty, and a 1/2" is for a heavy duty use. I would prefer to use a 1/2" drive instead of a 3/8" drive. Same for all my air impact wrenches too.
Any plans on testing any of the MAC versions of cordless impacts? I kind of assume they aren't worth the extra money over Dewalt, but the MAC guy says they are way more powerful.
They are the same tool as their DeWalt counterparts, both companies owned by SBD. Mac has never made their own power tools, they just rebrand someone else’s tools and mark up the price. They used to instruct their dealers to tell the customers that they have other companies make the tools for them but to Mac’s specs, which was total BS.
Growing up in Elkhart/Goshen, IN, where most of the RV's are made. It's known as the "RV Capitol of the World". Most of the people I know who work at Keystone, Coachman, or Thor use either Makita or Milwaukee for their impacts. I've never really had anyone tell me that one was better than the other when it came to 3/8 or 1/2, though. It usually came down to what the person wanted to pay, and what sockets they already had for their manual socket wrench. IF they had a 3/8" hand wrench, they got a 3/8" electric. Same for 1/2"
Shop tool reviews is the only other channel I watch to test tools. They also do tests that make sense and are done well, and have a very good at doing it in a way that eliminates variables in a test to show how the tools do in the same exact situation. Shop tool reviews gets 10 ⭐s stars out of 10 ⭐s. In tests that are meaningful and done in a way that shows how a tool works and if it can do what it says.
In the future what's going to happen is that Milwaukee will cut the power on the 3/8" to not make it compete with the 1/2", thanks for pointing that out. Consumer loses. #1 thing that companies can't stand is giving you extra "power" for free seen this happen dozens of times across CPU hardware, Milwaukee will quickly gather all their engineers and put a stop to the bleeding ASAP 😂
Took my kids to the wrecking yard to get an alternator. I had them try to loosen the bolts with the 3/8 Stubby Milwaukee on setting 1 and it couldn't loosen the bolts. I then had them move the setting to 3 and they Milwaukee took the bolts off as though they were hand tight with no effort. Love the Stubby and made a good impression on the kids.
I just don’t go to 1/2 inch that much with battery 🔋…unless I’m not in or near air and my my service bay. For me 1/4 and 3/8 I go battery but 1/2 inch I still prefer air especially for “around the wheel” automotive and light truck repair.
Just from my experience, the only significant difference anvil size makes is the max torque before the anvil breaks. The only reason we probably have both 3/8" and 1/2" impact drivers is due to the fact that both 3/8" and 1/2" sockets exist. Case-in-point: I was trying to loosen a lugnut on my wife's Escape, but only had a 3/8" socket that would fit the nut. Couldn't get it off with the air driver, so I got out the breaker bar, but it was 1/2". Used my 1/2"-3/8" anvil adapter and managed to break the adapter due to the extra torque. Once I bought the correct 1/2" socket, the breaker bar was able to get the nut off. On top of that, it most likely wouldn't be worth the extra R&D cost to make a weaker motor and it could hurt brand reputation.
I actually purchased the Milwaukee Gen 2 mid torque in 3/8 based on the results I seen from Shop Tool reviews. I didn't own a 3/8 or 1/2 socket set and wasnt sure what to choose but assumed the 1/2 was probably stronger. I seen the 3/8 was not only more powerful but the sockets were less expensive so I went for the 3/8 and so glad I did. I dont use it a ton but ever time I work on my car Im impressed by its power and size. Crazy, Milwaukee should brag about it.
If I have to make an educated guess, I would hypothesize that the 3/8ths drive has a lower mass in the anvil, allowing it to hit more times, since it's not slowing down the motor as much as a heavier 1/2" drive, resulting in more (lighter) hits to the bolt in question. Since in the bolt removal game, the number of impacts tends to outweigh the individual strength of each impact, this would give a (slight) edge to the 3/8". However, they are both otherwise driven by the same powertrain, when you average the output over time, you will generally find the actual power to be the same. But I could entirely be mistaken. Good test, and interesting information to parse.
Own a Milwaukee M-12 3/8 Stubby impact and at it's highest setting in reverse snapped the end off a 3" impact extension on a tight GM control arm bolt. It's got plenty of beans!!!
I often wondered why socket manufacturers don't offer larger sizes smaller drive sizes like at least 3/4" and 19mm in 1/4 drive, 1 1/2" and 38mm in 3/8 drive, or 2" and 50mm in 1/2 drive. Could be super short for there size and would help fit into tight spots.
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
Many in the comments are offering theories about or wondering why 3/8" is more powerful than 1/2" talking about mass and other things. Well I feel like we overall showed it's not (see 1822 nano and Hercules purchase using the same 1/2" and 3/8" sockets), but being the same is also interesting and new data. The anvil mass difference is after all less than 0.1lbs. The Milwaukee seems to be exception, and maybe a rare one as other channels have noticed. We (and apparently Milwaukee) have no idea why. 3/8" flies under the radar a bit but with the socket options now-a-days and the power some of these make it shouldn't. It's no longer your fathers power tools out there where smaller drive size means no beans. Here's hoping more brands offer 3/8" in mid size impacts (DeWalt, you listening?)
Torque of TTC is working for Astro Tools who also make the 1822 Nano impact in this video. TTC is not the only testing out there, always consider multiple sources when looking at a tool!
Smaller drive sizes are so much more versatile. I special ordered 1/4" proto sockets up to a 17mm and 3/8" proto sockets up to a 29, so that I can spend the least amount of time swapping drive tools and less effective area taken up.
i found my M12 3/8 compact also out performs my friends M12 1/2, we also found it odd as they are both around the same age and use.
I sure hope yellow and black is listening!
Ackshully Dewalt is at least now making a dcf913 and a dcf923, 3/8” drive versions of the recently tested 1/2” drive dcf911 and dcf921.
@@09corvettezr1 I believe they've always made 3/8" versions of their compact impacts though. Mid-torques not so much
just the fact that you guys went out of your way to make custom sockets deserves a like
I didn't even know there were people who did that kind of thing.
Your comment is so spot on it deserved a like!
@@EclecticBuddha specialty/custom manufacturing is a massive worldwide industry... if youve got the money, you can get a company to make you anyting you desire... boeing will make you a custom 747 if you got the money... you think its hard to get someone to make you a custom sized chunk of steel? lol
sorry, not trying to bash you, i just fond it kinda funny, coming from a manufacturing background...
The next step I would be trying, would be swapping the 1/2 & 3/8 anvils between the 2 & see if the results follow the anvil, or the units. In the same way as you did with the air drive.
Yup. Probably should even take it apart, clean, and re-grease the hammer/anvil before and after each run so we don't get grease variance ;)
@Torque Test Channel please read this guy's comment!
I would first like to see a reducer put on the bolt (ie. down to 19mm) and he uses short 3/8 and 1/2 sockets from the same manufacturer. I don't like how much wobble the long socket creates at the anvil at higher torque seems like maybe torque is being wasted.
Yep' sure.
Care is needed because there are so many variables. Things like temperature can make a difference. There is no physics reason why anvil size should mark any difference.
Thanks for the shout!
Why isn't the larger mass creating more torque? surely you can elaborate. Considering you used that logic for weighted sockets.
Most def! Love what you do
The "larger mass" here is like 0.1lbs. If anything this vid has said they are about the same power. Milwaukee being the exception is what everyone is focusing on though, in which case we (and Milwaukee) have no idea. Harmonic resonance would be my shot in the dark
Mr. Subie in the house 👍🏽
@@Nick_Gir because the mass is all on the center axis. If you look at the IR weighted socket that TTC tested, it has that outer ring to add mass, and you’ll notice that the ring is away from the central axis.
If you look at the units of torque (ft•lbs for us in the states), if you have the same force (lbs), but a longer lever arm (ft), you’ll generate more torque, because torque is the product of distance and force.
The tool companies rate the 3/8” lower because it makes sense to the average Joe who therefore will buy both to round out his tool arsenal.
psychology of marketing!
I skip 3/8 and just have 1/4" and 1/2". 3/8" really only makes sense for people who only want the midrange... (after 1/2" should one go 3/4" or just jump to 1" wrench sets - for really bid stuff.. lol)
@@kadmow 3/8 isnt midrange if it performs the same. Your paying more for 1/2 sockets with no performance gains.
@@daveunknown01 : Note that "this-here-test" is only showing the power impact drivers torque capacity is the same, not the strength of the wrenching ecosystem. There are other advantages / disadvantages to specific drive sizes....
(all it shows is the companies appear to rip people off on the Battery powered, 1/2 drive size "Impact Wrenches" when all that is needed is a drive adapter. ) - for workshop use Air tools are cheaper and often just as handy...
@@kadmow I have a 2 foot long breaker bar and a torque multiplier for anything I can't get off with a 1/2" impact. When working with stuff that big it's good to have manual input so you can feel if something is going to break or not.
Now try the 3/8” drive with an adapter and run the 1/2” socket. That’s what a lot of us would do to use it with big sockets
I do it building Switch Gear (MDP) and have no issues using my Milwaukee 3/8 M18 impact.
@@nickmac5953 I do the same for running LMDP’s and MCP’s , impact 1/2” adapter with 3/4” socket ... takes it like a champ , especially great for small places too
I was thinking the same thing
Im guessing it depends on the fit? The more wobble the less torque but if welded, would actually make more torque like what we've seen from Shop Tool Reviews
I accidentally bought a 1/2 impact and now I suffer the consequences
Love the shout outs your doing bro. You are helping this community grow
TH-cam won't let me tag torque test channel. Get this info to them please!
User Myki Langridge said "The next step I would be trying, would be swapping
the 1 /2 & 3/8 anvils between the 2 & see if the results follow the anvil, or the units. In the same way as you did with the air drive."
What community are you talking about?
@@lntrlp4936 you're kidding right?
@@meme5887 no, no I'm not. This video of testing Impacts doesn't represent a growing "community".
@@lntrlp4936 it's not a "growing community". It's "helping community grow". Meaning be more knowledgeable in their own tools and how they should use, which they should use, and which they should buy. They're giving people the knowledge to choose based on facts. Not " this seems faster/more powerful". Because what "feels" better/faster/more powerful isn't always actually better/faster/more powerful.
My guess for why 3/8" is better in some cases despite everything being seemingly the same is resonance: the smaller shaft has more springiness, which allows the anvil to have more rebound and hit harder once it gets in that zone while the 1/2" does better at rust-busting from the extra rigidity transferring more of the sharp initial impact to the fastener instead of being softened by elastic shaft deformation.
Wss thinking the same think my guy
Good guess
What this guy said ☝️🤣
@iantrofimov6416it would be interesting to see a well worn 3/8 test.
Ok… i approve this answer…. Best one yet anyway…
As a retired mechanic I can tell you a 1/2" drive will last longer under high torque use than a 3/8" drive will. I've snapped the square drive off of many 3/8" drives. I have never snapped off a 1/2" drive. It boils down to the right tool for the job.
I snapped a 1/2 breaker bar taking off a wheel hub to a suv but its coulda been due to age
@@dexterjsullen I can believe that. I had an older dodge 4x4 front axle nut that required a 3/4 drive breaker bar to get loose.
5 year warranty. I will take the extra space and torque. As a personal current technician
Professional* little autocorrect error
@@garypeterson9083 I broke 2 studs on my dad's dodge motor home hub before i realized they they were left hand thread
Just found this channel. One 13 minute video had me sold. Subscribed
I bought an M18 Fuel 3/8" impact 3 or 4 years ago and used it for most impact jobs Including outboard flywheel nuts, rusted wheel lugs and other rusted trailer parts. Salt water is to boat trailers, engines and other boat hardware as road salt is to automotive world. My 1/2" CP air impact is probably 45 years old, came with me from the auto industry to marine and has been rebuilt probably 4 times. Our shop air leaves a lot to be desired and I am a lot more mobile than in the past. I still needed the air for some situations. I recently replaced both with M18 fuel gen 3 I think they are called. I bought them because they are shorter and the added gain was more power. I also bought m12 Fuel screw gun, 1/4" impact driver and 1/2" drill with the smaller 3AH batterys. I wanted the 12 for the smaller size for tight access and the power and batterys have been more than adequate for my work. I almost never run down batteries before the day or the job is done. In my world battery tools are now king but in auto and heavy equipment repair I would imagine battery has it's place but air is probably still king.
Glad you guys took this to task. Never understood the myth of 1/2" hitting harder in the same tool. It's the same tool. I only went 1/2" with the M12 since my specialty tools fit that size.
You guys are leaving me perplexed. I was always told the larger mass of the 1/2" anvil hits harder therefore delivering more torque. Apparently you proved that wrong 👍🏽
Cardo, the dyno proves us wrong right along with you. We come away from these tests humbled as usual
And in another test a weighted socket increases the torque? This is a bit confusing! 🤔😂
The mass of the hammer inside the gun is what matters most, and a gun that ships as a 1/2 anvil might have a larger hammer than a more compact 3/8 anvil gun.
@@henrikforsberg683 Could it be WHERE the weight is? Anvil is in the centerline of rotation. Weighted sockets have mass concentrated at the edge where the angular velocity is higher.
Is it possible that's the heavier anvil actually absorbs some energy in some situations
I use this 3/8 impact driver. I love it. I've removed 36mm axle nuts without an issue. I don't even own a 1/2" impact driver to be honest. I have the Snap On adaptor set. I'm good with that.
The only reason why I ever thought someone would choose 1/2in over 3/8in was so things don't break. I've definitely broken a number of 3/8 breaker bars but not equally cheap 1/2 bars. they always broke right at the end.
I must say this is one of your best videos. I saw your comment in Project Farm. In my opinion, TTC and Project Farm are the best tool channels in TH-cam. Thanks for your honesty, jokes and info saving me a ton of money.
Yes, 2 of the greats! "Just give the data" type channels.
It still amazes me when you see a comment here, or over at PF and someone still says "what's the best? You didn't say what the best was" .
I bought the 3/8” mid torque gen 2 few months ago and it’s great, I had no idea it was any more capable than the 1/2” on the contrary I thought by sepc that the 1/2” is little bit better but I wanted it be used on wider range of bolts and nuts & 3/8 was better fit for me, nice to see it is the more capable version of the two (not that the 1/2” is weak by any means).
Wait, so I should probably buy a 3/8 for a weekend warrior like me and just use a 3/8 to 1/2 adapter?
I am so glad that I bought my 3/8" Milwaukee 2 years ago that was recommended by a shop mechanic. Thank you for confirming his recommendation.
Good job !!! This channel has rapidly become one of my favorites! I hope you will be doing a "year end review" !
as an engineer, sometimes you just look at an anomaly like this and say "fuck if i know" and you go home early and take a nap
That is used in many professions. I prefer to tell the truth that lie about it.
I absolutely love my Milwaukee 3/8” mid torque. Used it for a long time and it’s my go to for 90% of jobs. I have the 3/4 with a step down adapter when I really need to give something the beans.
I used th-cam.com/users/postUgkx4ynqaujg7rZKFapA8s29kTpRszJGa3-K this for the first time today to replace the front wheel bearing on my rwd 98 dodge dakota. This had absolutely no issue removing or reinstalling the lug nuts and it took off the axle nut without any struggle. Sounds like it's got some muscle to it. Time will tell
Makes sense when most 3/8" drive sockets are lighter than their 1/2" versions, meaning more power to nut busting and less socket weight to throw, hence 1/2" has an advantage in initial torque.
Aaaaand, THAT'S WHY I finally broke down & grabbed the 3/8" Milwaukee right angle impact wrench, instead of the 1/2"....as well as the Kobalt...
Seriously, I LOVE that you did this video, because it definitely confirmed what I'd deduced...(ok...."suspected"), just based on combing thru COUNTLESS HOURS of clips from you & other contributing channels, researching, while trying to decide which tools to buy. Thanks for the confirmation (&, everything else you all do, which is all INCREDIBLY HELPFUL to people like me). Y'all are THE BEST!💯☺️👍🏼
@user-gt7xz8lh4d SOLID on brake jobs, but haven't tried on any suspension related bolts... although, I can't imagine it'd many limitations). SIL got a flat, a few miles from home, a while back & battery for my 1/2" impact dead, so took the M12 3/8" right angle with & zipped his legs right off, no problem . Granted, not what it's intended for, but definitely adequate in a pinch.
I picked up the 2960 not too long ago so that’s nice to hear that I’m not missing out on any power.
As there is a bit of movement between the socket and the tool, and as the ultimate torque that an impact wrench makes is directly related to the shorter duration of the impact, it is not surprising that an anvil with slightly less mass would be accelerated slightly faster and produce slightly higher numbers on the top end all other factors being equal.
You're a legend for answering this long unanswered question
Milwakee makes M12 Impact Wrench in both 1/2" and 3/8". They are completely identical except the anvil, you can test that :)
Good idea I wanna see that.
I'd be curious to see you take the 3/8 and 1/2 Milwaukee and swap the anvils to see if the 3/8 gun is doing something that the 1/2 gun isn't.
This, this should have been the next step in finding the root cause.
ManCaverTools put the 1/2" stubby anvil in the 1/4 hex impact driver stubby body/motor, and it actually outperformed both in their own configuration
TTC also collab'ed with them and tested the reworked tool output. In that case, I believe it was the increased rpm motor design coupled with the harder hitting anvil setup
The Milwaukee Right Angle Fuel advertises the 3/8 and 1/2 with the same spec's and the same price; IOW it's the same tool only a different anvil. My guess is it's the same with many other manufacturers, which explains why there's little difference between the two. Further, the 20v Atomic DeWalt 1/2 stubby impact wrench has the same torque rating as the Atomic 3/8, but the 1/2 costs $100 more. I guess it's all about marketing.
Just anecdotally I use the fuel 3/4 at work and another guy has the heavy duty 1/2" that's exactly the same except for the anvil. Never ran into an application where one outhit the other and it has come up where we've used both to try to bust bolts loose.
Man I’ve always been taught from old guys the hammer and socket weight was king. Learn something every day. Crazy in 2021 there is still info needed to be found
The smaller the bolt, the larger socket mass plays a part
Hi can you test torque sticks with different Impacts? I want to know if they can limit the torque of any kind of Impactgun.
I second this. I stopped using them at my shop due to the torque seeming very different when removing them by hand in my own terrible mini test.
@@HoosierDaddy_ The result is different indeed. I only use the lightest one (90 Nm), that way the torque spread doesnt really matter. Lug nuts are generally torque to anywhere between 120-180 Nm. Even if the torque using the torque stick differs by +/- 20 Nm (70-110 Nm), its still sufficient for what Im doing with it. At least its not possible to overtighten the screw anymore.
After using the torque stick on the lift, I torque the lugnuts to spec using a torque wrench when the car is back on the ground.
PS: I would be also very interested in a decent torque stick dyno test!
No, they only work correctly with rainbow colored impacts.
🤷.
Better upgrade to the care bears model.
Hey could you guys test something I’ve always wondered about. Torque sticks do they actually limit the torque to the specified amount?
+1
+2
+19 (1 for me and 16 for the number of times my Dad has told me that "torque sticks are useless")
I've heard they don't work with cordless, only pneumatic...
@@MyFortressConstruction Huh haven't heard that, I feel like no one knows anything for sure about these things.
Great to see experience quantified! I've done this test 'in the field' over the last few years, and the only difference I've ever seen is the ability to handle whatever socket was available/appropriate at the time. DATA WINS!
Well the weight of the socket is definetly . I think that the 3/8 socket will have more weight due to the smaller hole. And the smaller anvil even at the same torqure will have a higher rpm which im sure counts for something
My initial thoughts after watching this come to three questions:
1) How do the 1/4" impact wrenches in same/similar-sized models compare to their larger drive siblings?
2) If they fall into the same max torque range would they be capable of consistently snapping, shearing or otherwise breaking fasteners associated with the smallest 1/4" impact sockets/drivers commercially available? (much like the higher torque impact drivers were previously doing to socket adapters)
3) Ignoring tool/anvil longevity, and compatibility with existing tool sets that may already be owned; would the answers to the first two questions reduce or eliminate needs for buying either a 3/8" or 1/4" impact wrenches? (in certain torque ranges)
For example: If a 1/4" can deliver same/similar max torque as a 3/8" it'd raise questions about buying a 3/8" impact - particularly if/when a 1/4" impact wrench is paired with a 1/2" high torque impact wrench for larger fasteners. However, if the 1/4" impact would consistently snap fasteners associated with sockets below what is commercially available in a 3/8" drive size the 1/4" impact may not have much added utility vs. the 3/8". The Milwaukee M12 stubby line up of impacts and the various power ratchets comes to mind as a possible example despite the differing specs of the 1/4" versions.
The joys of experimentation for every "answer" found more questions arise....
If the anvils are interchangeable, I would expect the torque to be equivalent between the 1/2” and 3/8”.
Its not. Because the masses are different. The 3/8 drive has less mass than the 1/2 drive.
The effect were seeing here is caused by an interaction between the motors torque curve and the anvil mass. The motor seems to struggle at the last bit of the dyno test, because the 1/2" anvil seems to be a little too heavy for it to max out.
@Chris Another possible explanation is the length of the 1/2 socket creating a wobble at the anvil and torque loss when the bolt gets harder to turn (since he is not holding the impact wrench securely). The 3/8 socket is short and does not have the same issue. You can see the difference in wobble in the video.
If you changed the output gear on anything else you wouldn't say that.
Im guessing it's relevant to the impact motion being different to a steady load and flex in the metal, and the small amount of extra mass.
@@Chris-yy7qc would the mass actually be different? Think about it, if it’s the same size socket they’ll still have almost the same volume the difference will be the 1/2 will have more weight in the anvil and the 3/8 will have more in the socket. Maybe?
Edits: my best guess would be something with harmonics, still don’t see mass being a factor for the reason previously mentioned
@@christiansmith8529 1/2" sockets are bigger and therefore heavier than 3/8" drive sockets.
When I wrenched (Like 2+ decades ago) I was the only guy in the shop using a 3/8" impact, in this case, Snatch-on's best one at the time. I got endlessly razzed for it but the thing had major beans on 2-stage full shop air (we'd cranked the pressure cutoff switch on the compressors unbeknownst to management). I found it worked very well when doing suspension work as it fit where my fellow mechanics' 1/2" impacts could not. Sorta wild that today I have a battery impact and ratchet and could not be happier for my at-home use.
been a while since i didnt watch xvideos first thing in the a.m
Nut busting has a different meaning here on the TTC, buddy.
I think.
@@jamesgeorge4874 you’re a comedic genius
The funny folks are awake today.
HAHAHAHAAAAA this is great
Lol
I have both of the mid torque wrenches and the only difference I have found in power is the availability of bigger sockets for the 3/8 wrench. Really like them both.
Maybe at the beginning of the curve, the 1/2" transfers more momentum, like the heavy sockets do. But at the top end, the 3/8" is robbing less power because it's lighter? Big burly V8, low end torque, vs high RPM 4 cylinder generating more power?
Had a similar theory
@@chasewebber4316 would be interesting to compare the hammer masses and moments of inertia between anvil sizes. Bigger hammer / anvil hits harder but maybe at a lower speed, so less power is output? Just speculation...
I went with my gut and got the 3/8 stubby because i already had a impact socket set in that size, so glad that I’m not losing power because that was eating me alive not knowing if whether or not the 1/2 had better performance. Thanks for this video
There is a lot that goes into that. Less mass more speed. More mass less speed etc etc. being a mechanic for 17 years I’ve been around a lot of impacts. Some things 3/8s will not do a 1/2 with a heavier socket gets it done. Same goes for 3/4 and 1 inch. For the longest time I only used a 1/2 impact and had a reducer so I could use a 3/8s socket. Each impact has its place. I could go on and on.
I work on heavy equipment, and a mid toque 1/2” has never crossed my mind. My co-workers and and myself all have high torque 1/2” Milwaukee and the 3/8” high torque if you wanna call it that. Seems to be the best set up. I like the smaller profile of a 3/8” socket for most applications. Also the profile of a 3/8” impact wobble socket. Great channel btw!
I used to have a 3/8 impact. It was like a little mini impact. What I liked most about it, is that it fit all my 3/8 sockets.
Exactly!
I don't remember making this comment... 😛
@@robertthompson5084 I am now a celebrity. I have an impersonator. 😎
@@robertthompson3447 No, you! spidermanpointingatspiderman.jpg
Okay folks!!! After 3 weeks of research I purchased the 1/2" Milwaukee Impact wrench 6922-20 $189 and 1/2" High end Milwaukee socket set $139 2 weeks ago and they arrived 3 days ago. I watched this video the day after I received the products. Boy was I upset. I went into denial and started making stuff up to justify my purchase per my comments below. But then after further research and sleeping on it for a day, I pulled the trigger and shipped back my 1/2" purchases then per this video, purchased the Milwaukee 3/8" 6920-20 and comparable Milwaukee 3/8" socket set. I want to thank you and suggest to set up a contribution option.
A test I would really like to see, is does the torque output change if you hold the socket and twist in the direction that you are impacting so that it does not rebound or jump around? I've had bolts that just would not come loose during impacting that then did when you applied a little bit of twist to the socket to keep it tightly engaged on the fastener
im so glad yall did this, i bought the 3/8" m18 gen 3 compact because of those videos
TTC never disappoints!
Thank you for another great video.
In the heavy duty body shop I work in, I typically use the 1/4"impact for screws, nuts, bolts upto 5/8"fasteners w/3/8" socket drive adapter. If I had 3/8"impact driver, I'd likely stop at 11mm/7/16" with the 1/4"impact driver (as I frequently have to change to an air-powered 3/8" impact anyways.). Only because my batry-po'erd arsenal is a little bit light, do I not switch to 3/8" sooner than I typically do. If I had a batry-po'erd 3/8"impact, I likely wouldn't use it on anything above 3/4"-13/16"freedom units, cause that puts undue stress on the tool.
Did I ever tell about the time I happened to be wearing eye protection when my 1/2" impact Literally Grenaded, deeply scaring the right lens of my favorite safety glasses.?! I was beating the sh!t out of something I didn't want to walk back to my toolbox and 3/4"impact stuff for. It cut my right cheek too. Had to take time off, had to file workman's comp..
Before watching I imagine 3/8" will perform better than 1/2" because of less rotating mass - the same reason why if you put wheels/tires on your car that weigh less than the ones currently on it - you will see a gain in MPGs because there's less energy used to propel them and more power can be used to move the lesser weighted wheels.
great video, I knew there was difference just had no idea it was this, I am in Canada and just bought the Makita mid torque XWT17 1/2" drive and love it, i do own mostly 1/2" sockets from my jobs over the years and just use adapters to size down to any smaller jobs that have smaller hardware, and don not require big torque and this new Makita with the many power levels it allows me to do almost anything with it, i also have a Makita 1/4" driver as part of a set, been using Makita for almost 20 yrs and don't see any need or reason to change and the warranty/service is awesome great video and good info to know when i go to purchase the next thing a cordless ratchet , i will wait they are suppose to be upgrading them in the near future i heard from an Aussie friend of mine 👍
Surprising, and great information. I would be curious to know how durability and anvil mass compare. I would have guessed the 1/2" would transfer torque better but at these powers it doesn't seem to matter.
This video was very shocking to me. A shocking experience I've had that's similar to this is when I used a M12 impact driver to remove lugnuts off of my 2011 civic with a 3/8 adapter, it pulled them right off no problem but my father's 20V DeWalt couldn't take even one off. Now his is definitely beat up and has a lot more use on it but I was shocked to see that a 12v tool was out performing a 20V
thats very interesting, i got the 1/2". but in reality nothing on a vehicle should stand in the way, not surprised at the axle nut on the other vid, along with a crank bolt those are some of the tightest torques you should see(not counting corrosion) and those might see 200-300 ft lbs.
In my 35+yrs in the automotive industry, I've swapped anvils on different tools when available, if a particular task warranted such a swap. Generally, I will only make such a swap on an impact driver because I found that swapping the 3/8anvil for a 1/2anvil is at least a minor tool-castration. Not surprised by the Milwaukee 'Revelation'.
My most successful swap was an older 3/8 Matco impact driver that I temporarily swapped out for the 1/2anvil. While I lost a little bit of the tools output, the 1/2anvil eventually sheared off inside the housing. I repaired it and still have it. It still hits above it's weight class.
less weight=more speed. when the anvil hits with more speed could equate to more force. Especially with both in the same form factor.
Which begs the question why didn't the nano and hercules increase from the same 1/2" to 3/8" anvil change?
@@TorqueTestChannel It could be a variety of things. It could hit max RPM with the 1/2" already, due to amperage limitations, discharge of motor limits, hell, could be governed electronically. The Nano could've also been slightly impeded by being overly greased, slight differences causing a different level of 'bite' between anvils, or that pneumatics hit at the same strength due to using a constant line pressure and not electric batteries that can vary their output. The only way to check would be to find or make oddball sizes for them, where you can also test 1/4 and 3/4" variants.
Milwaukee's construction could just be one that hits harder than expected because, for durability reasons, they engineer them stronger for 1/2" drive to allow for more power and performance-which the 3/8" gobbles up as it requires less power to turn. Build the 1/2" first, and make them all to that spec. Instead, the Hercules could've been built 3/8" to 1/2", and so the 3/8" was already working at peak.
I'm kinda surprised because I'd figure surface area would end up becoming a factor. Constant pressure across a larger area means more power, whereas that same pressure across a smaller one has lower power. It could be that any 'gains' from speed would be evened out on a pneumatic, but the only way to tell would be a LOT of testing.
I'm just spitballing though, so...grain of salt?
Hammer is the same only anvil is different. My guess is hat the 3/8 is harder due to the loss in girth from 1/2 to 3/8
@@TorqueTestChannel
In the case of the Milwaukee impacts, maybe the hammers are different between the 3/8 and 1/2?
@@TorqueTestChannel my only answer is just a probability, that they use a cheaper motor to account for the cheaper cost. Something in there is not the same quality as the more expensive product
I bought the 1/2 drive M12(yes, Twelve) Milwaukee impact for work(non-automotive)
It easily removed the lug nuts on all my trucks. That included two old C30’s, a K5, & a Ram 1500. Very happy with performance and lighter weight than the M18 or other brands.
I have the 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 M12's and love each of them.
My perspective on this this comes from engine performance. With ICEs, HP (work) is torque × RPM. A big torquey V8 that makes 400ftlbs but only revs to 4500 might make 250HP, and has the torque to do work down low like towing (Like how 1/2" guns do better breaking through rust or stripped fasteners that won't move) Whereas a smaller V8 making 250ftlbs but revving over 7500rpm might make 400hp, doing even more work faster and hitting higher top speeds than the torquey V8 even with lower torque figures. (3/8" anvil swapped from 1/2" tightening clean bolts with little resistance even tighter due to lower rotating mass, increasing speed or blows per minute) Obviously these are the same guns just with different anvils, so the difference isn't huge but they do seem to follow that logic
My M12 3/8 outperforms most 1/2 guns I've compared it against. Awesome gun
For this specific situation it would be interesting to see if the results are the same if you used a 3/8 to 1/2" adapter thats not welded instead of a custom socket because in the real world most of us are not going to buy custom sockets and would just use an adapter. I know you referenced the other videos but im curious if the results would be the same which the may just be.
you table looks amazing on camera for a background. love it.
I would think the 1/2 anvil would be less prone to fracture than the 3/8 (thus giving the impression of more strength AND torque), but it also makes sense to me that the high end torque would be greater for the 3/8 than the 1/2 because the anvil for the 3/8 is lighter. Since the motor of the 3/8 is doing less work moving the anvil, it should have a few more seeds (assumed smaller than beans) to give the test setup.
Further, since there would be excess torque available at the lower end of the curve, the motor should be able to drive the 1/2 anvil at a similar speed to the 3/8, thus delivering more torque than the 3/8 because it's moving the higher mass 1/2 anvil a distance similar to the 3/8.
I wonder if the 1/2 anvil end was cut off (still allow safe engagement WITHOUT pushing harder into the socket during the test) to reduce the anvil mass whether the curve would look more like the 3/8?
My explanation doesn't work for the Harbor Freight unless the anvils were the same weight or they were actually different internals. Maybe it's because they are providing much less torque so it's less evident?
TTC. RULES. ThankYou for all you do !💯%!
interesting video! I've found this to be the case a few times myself where i have both 3/8th and half in models of the same tool the 3/8 seemed to right on par if not better. But i couldn't quantify it and always assumed it was just bias/some coincidence.
heres a thought. is there any chance having a smaller anvil makes the output rotating mass of the anvil smaller in relation to the total mass being rotated on the socket allows it generate slightly more power? for example if i used a 1' socket but the drive was the same 1' diameter I would assume the rotating mass of the socket would be greatly mitigated because its not rotating outside of the diameter of the drive itself. kind of like how bigger wheels on a car can reduce torque and throw off gearing.
Did a good good job telling the manufacturer your findings. I have a good feeling the will fix this... "problem"
Are the anvils swappable in the M18 compacts? What about swapping them between the two and see if there is any difference after that
That's what I thought they were originally going to do.
All the more reason I was happy to buy three of the astro 1828s. One for me, and two more for good friends of mine.
It doesn't help that the 1/2" drive is just as available as the Thor version.
Same gun, different size anvil.
You should switch anvils on Milwaukee impacts to see if it's just anvil or tool difference...
That's what I thought they were going to do originally.
@@cybco yep me too! And they did on the airgun
Yeah??
Switch circuit boards as second idea
My only other thought is the amount of wobble the socket has on the anvil? Very interesting.
presumably the only difference is snapping the anvil on a 3/8 at higher torque, provided the rest of the tool is the same
I've always used a smaller drive when possible as it's usually lighter, costs less and fits easier in tighter places.
Bought a 1/4" drive impact and electric ratchet from Matco several years ago and those things certainly earned their keep and paid themselves off in no time (this is before electric impacts took over from air impacts and were still in their infancy)
So last year after some tools that were in my truck were stolen (along with my truck) I decided to finally bite the bullet and buy into the Milwaulkee lineup and got an M18 drill and impact driver combo, a multi tool, and an M12 fuel 3/8" stubby impact.
That 3/8" stubby impact is quite the little beast. It'll rip off standard truck lugnuts with no issue!
Just for shits and giggles I'll have to see if it can even make a dent on Mack Truck lugnut lol (that'd be a lot of adapters too though)
Idk I use 3/8s for basically everything as related to ratchets so I do like to have a compact or mid torque in 3/8s just to not have to make any extra effort but I do see the value in having a 1/2inch
I have the 3/8 that they tested, and then the High Torque 1/2. Don't use the 1/2 often, but it has its place when needed. Usually use the 3/8 though. I do want to still get the 3/8 stubby impact for those tight spaces.
I feel like High Tq for 1/2 and then a 3/8 Mid is a decent set up
I noticed this lately with makita. I bought a large body half inch impact that turned out to be the same motor amp size as my buddies with a 3/4 hammer in it. The 3/4 seems to have way more bag. However I’ve not used them side by side. Just using them in similar situations.
My hypothesis behind this would show that when using a 1/2 inch it’ll get up to a higher power quicker as the 1/2 inch has more weight therefore will create more momentum. Whereas when trying to get those extra beans at the end it take less torque to get the smaller 3/8 drive spinning as it weighs less therefore you can get those couple extra foot pounds.
whatever extra energy gets put into the heavier object is being used to overcome the extra resistance to changes in its motion (Newton's 1st Law). exactly why a pebble and boulder dropped from the tower of pizza hit the ground at the same time despite gravity exherting so much more force on the heavier rock.
I bought both 1/2" and 3/8" in Milwaukee s new gen and find I use the 1/2" more then the 3/8" even though the 3/8" surprises me from time to time. The things the 3/8" will take off is shocking butt when I'm pulling craddle bolts I find the 3/8 can't do it but that 1/2" can . I believe it is the larger socket Mass and lower Dynamic torque of the 1/2" impact . The phenomenon that you are explaining can be seen with 1/4" impact drivers taking off lug nuts with a bunch of reducers vs a 3/8" that won't do because of a wimpy thin wall 3/8 socket . Design of impact screw driver and impact are different as well but there s plenty of dingle berries out there using a 10lb socket on there 1/4" screw impact drive to rotate there tires.
I want to see a tour of your impact collection
Remember that scene from the Matrix where Neo says "We need guns. Lots of guns." and you see those racks up on racks? That's pretty much what the TTC collection looks like.
I almost bought a 1/2 inch mid torque because the 3/8 didn’t want to bust rust. So glad I waited to see the real beans, I also didn’t know the mid torque is that close to its advertised power
Second, that's as close as I feel I'll ever get. I'll take it.
90th. 😂
I remember the early days of 3/8 air impact guns, they were a waste of money and time, unless you were doing assembly work and needed low torque. Great video, great tests, happy new subscriber.
Milwaukee 3/8" and 1/2" mid range impacts are the same IPM and RPM. Both models use the same size motor. However, we know that the Torque formula is T = R x Force. If we use the same motor mechanism, a 3/8" is for a general duty, and a 1/2" is for a heavy duty use. I would prefer to use a 1/2" drive instead of a 3/8" drive. Same for all my air impact wrenches too.
Love that you guys watch shop tool reviews. Tim is great!
We agree. Best nut-busting testing on youtube
Any plans on testing any of the MAC versions of cordless impacts? I kind of assume they aren't worth the extra money over Dewalt, but the MAC guy says they are way more powerful.
Next week!
They are the same tool as their DeWalt counterparts, both companies owned by SBD. Mac has never made their own power tools, they just rebrand someone else’s tools and mark up the price. They used to instruct their dealers to tell the customers that they have other companies make the tools for them but to Mac’s specs, which was total BS.
BS
He'll tell you anything if you'll buy his tool. Look at the recent video on this channel for the Mac air hammer. 😂
Wow, I wasn't expecting this. I'm glad you did the test! Love your videos!
Interesting to see that the 3/8ths had a much more consistant climbing rate on the chart.
Growing up in Elkhart/Goshen, IN, where most of the RV's are made. It's known as the "RV Capitol of the World". Most of the people I know who work at Keystone, Coachman, or Thor use either Makita or Milwaukee for their impacts. I've never really had anyone tell me that one was better than the other when it came to 3/8 or 1/2, though. It usually came down to what the person wanted to pay, and what sockets they already had for their manual socket wrench. IF they had a 3/8" hand wrench, they got a 3/8" electric. Same for 1/2"
Yooo jdtco is the shit
Shop tool reviews is the only other channel I watch to test tools. They also do tests that make sense and are done well, and have a very good at doing it in a way that eliminates variables in a test to show how the tools do in the same exact situation. Shop tool reviews gets 10 ⭐s stars out of 10 ⭐s. In tests that are meaningful and done in a way that shows how a tool works and if it can do what it says.
Wait till I tell my girlfriend the good news about size...
The best power tool testing channel I have seen 👀.
Pretty expensive test equipment and great presentation 👍.
In the future what's going to happen is that Milwaukee will cut the power on the 3/8" to not make it compete with the 1/2", thanks for pointing that out. Consumer loses. #1 thing that companies can't stand is giving you extra "power" for free seen this happen dozens of times across CPU hardware, Milwaukee will quickly gather all their engineers and put a stop to the bleeding ASAP 😂
Took my kids to the wrecking yard to get an alternator. I had them try to loosen the bolts with the 3/8 Stubby Milwaukee on setting 1 and it couldn't loosen the bolts. I then had them move the setting to 3 and they Milwaukee took the bolts off as though they were hand tight with no effort. Love the Stubby and made a good impression on the kids.
ay first actual comment
I just don’t go to 1/2 inch that much with battery 🔋…unless I’m not in or near air and my my service bay.
For me 1/4 and 3/8 I go battery but 1/2 inch I still prefer air especially for “around the wheel” automotive and light truck repair.
You guys are becoming the Bible of data for torque info. Keep it going
Just from my experience, the only significant difference anvil size makes is the max torque before the anvil breaks. The only reason we probably have both 3/8" and 1/2" impact drivers is due to the fact that both 3/8" and 1/2" sockets exist. Case-in-point: I was trying to loosen a lugnut on my wife's Escape, but only had a 3/8" socket that would fit the nut. Couldn't get it off with the air driver, so I got out the breaker bar, but it was 1/2". Used my 1/2"-3/8" anvil adapter and managed to break the adapter due to the extra torque. Once I bought the correct 1/2" socket, the breaker bar was able to get the nut off. On top of that, it most likely wouldn't be worth the extra R&D cost to make a weaker motor and it could hurt brand reputation.
I actually purchased the Milwaukee Gen 2 mid torque in 3/8 based on the results I seen from Shop Tool reviews.
I didn't own a 3/8 or 1/2 socket set and wasnt sure what to choose but assumed the 1/2 was probably stronger.
I seen the 3/8 was not only more powerful but the sockets were less expensive so I went for the 3/8 and so glad I did.
I dont use it a ton but ever time I work on my car Im impressed by its power and size.
Crazy, Milwaukee should brag about it.
If I have to make an educated guess, I would hypothesize that the 3/8ths drive has a lower mass in the anvil, allowing it to hit more times, since it's not slowing down the motor as much as a heavier 1/2" drive, resulting in more (lighter) hits to the bolt in question. Since in the bolt removal game, the number of impacts tends to outweigh the individual strength of each impact, this would give a (slight) edge to the 3/8". However, they are both otherwise driven by the same powertrain, when you average the output over time, you will generally find the actual power to be the same.
But I could entirely be mistaken. Good test, and interesting information to parse.
Own a Milwaukee M-12 3/8 Stubby impact and at it's highest setting in reverse snapped the end off a 3" impact extension on a tight GM control arm bolt. It's got plenty of beans!!!
If possible could we see the M12 Right Angle and Stubby in both 3/8 and 1/2 compared? Excellent video thanks TTC!
Amazing video! I had an idea that I think my fellow canadians would love, to test out the mastercraft and maximum impact driver from canadian tire.
I often wondered why socket manufacturers don't offer larger sizes smaller drive sizes like at least 3/4" and 19mm in 1/4 drive, 1 1/2" and 38mm in 3/8 drive, or 2" and 50mm in 1/2 drive. Could be super short for there size and would help fit into tight spots.