*Follow up video testing 14 brands on the open end! **th-cam.com/video/DzY4jg7NmKw/w-d-xo.html* If you're wondering why 12 point and spline are being tested on 6-point fasteners, its because that's how they are used 95% of the time in a shop environment. And how they are sold to us on tool trucks. Combination wrenches are as old as time yet very infrequently used on actual 12-point or spline head bolts now days, they are a way to wrench on 6-point with less arc swing before repositioning, and therefore more access.
As an engineer, I'm more interested in 6-point on 6-point bolt vs 12-point on 12-point bolt, vs inside hex vs torx maybe? I know that's how tool trucks and shop sell them to you, but to me that screams wrong tool for the wrong fastener.
@@checksum00 That all sounds well and good on paper to engineers I'm sure, but the popularity of the traditional 12-point combination wrench is due to access. You need multiple angles of attack on a bolt head. 6-point box end may not slip, but once you turn it and can no longer re-position it, story is over there. 12-point, and spline here with some advantage it seems, offers you the access without 60° of arc needed between goes.
@@TorqueTestChannel oh yeah, totally get the use case here, and frankly as an amateur mechanic I mostly carry 12-point for that reason, and so I don't have to duplicate tools for the rare case I get 12-point nuts. I'm not use to those spline one, actually the first time I hear about them. I worked in aerospace and we mostly use socket head caps screws. Rule of thumb in the industry is that 6-point < 12-point < SHCS < torx and other proprietary screws format, but I never really saw backing data on that. That's why I think seeing a fights of format vs format using the right tool would be immensely interesting.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade Needing to use 12-point for repositioning doesn't describe a very tight space. Swigging a 10" wrench 60 degrees takes up a lot of room. Of course if you want to get in a habit of breaking bolts free with a ratcheting wrench that's something you can do as well if you have a good warranty. We all have. But 12-point box end breaking bolts free still happens countless times a day around the shop so it's worth seeing this difference I feel.
The only scientific way to judge when they're going to slip is judging when you have to apply a lot of pressure and your knuckles are in the perfect position to lose the most amount of skin
sad drops of blood mixed with grimy oil, dust, rust, and to make it better getting a cramp are my prefered ohh and foggy glasses now i could go on but its sciency enough for me
As a person from the land of rusty cars and mountains of salt, I can confirm that 6point is the way to go when breaking loose stuck fasteners. The 12's are simply for turning them off in tight spaces... but only AFTER you've baptized them with fire, penetrant, and a solid 6point first 👍
Absolutely, living in the heart of the Adirondacks I know all too well what you're saying. As a rule a hot wrench and a six point is the way to go. I have a mini school bus with most everything so I use the right tool for whatever the job is.
"Assuming we're not incompetent" I'm really impressed that you're keeping all options on the table and being objective with them. I always leave this one on the table as well.
I'd like to see the Tools themselves measured before testing. (like the nut measurements at 2:54 but for the inside of the tools. We might find that the widths directly relate to the slipping for 12-point and splines. Even Order the same tool from 3 different vendors and find the average for each tool. The 12-points were all over the place. GearWrench and PowerBuilt were low for 12 points, and I wonder if they make their parts wider, softer metal, or it was a fluke. Those companies could have lower tolerances or purposefully make wider tools for ease of use. Also, he didn't mention doing it, but run each tool 3 times with 3 different Bolts to account for errors in the bolt rounding. (or hire AvE to machine rounded heads)
There's an important take away here! The way the fastener failed is important. When the 12pt strips, you can probably still get a 6pt in there to save the day. When the spline strips, you have a nice looking circle.
I've worked on a secondhand spreading truck (this is an NZ one so yeah, a lot more rust than a USA one). I came across a 13mm bolthead that was rusted and stripped to a near perfect circle. Just hammered on an 11mm spline socket (yes two rare things used - spline AND 11mm!!). Cracked that bolt right off. So yes, splines are a very situation specific tool.
@@xap95 you underestimate the rust belt in the US. Up north the roads get salted all the time so if you dont wash your vehicles often enough they’ll literally fall apart from rust. I’ve seen frames that you could stick your finger through 80% of it because it was so rusted out. It was a miracle the thing drove to the shop.
@@bentrod3405 Yeah I've seen some online, I was merely offering an example (by "more rust than a USA one" i meant more rust than a USA *spreader truck*).
I thought this was a universal truth across the states. I remember being shocked that the local tool trucks even had 12 point anything on them. When asked they replied with, "New guys buy dumb shit."
As a now retired mechanic, I switched to 6-point sockets and wrenches within a year of starting my wrenching career. (Just 1 or 2 busted knuckles into a searing hot exhaust system get your attention quite quickly.) Snap-Off (and later MAC) were the only spline makers, so I happily kept my paychecks and did just fine with 6-pointers. One note: If you have a thin nut or bolt head, you can get a better grab on it if you grind the heel of the box end down a bit. It eliminates some of the rounded area (which helps you find/engage the bolt head) and lets the 6 flats of the wrench touch the base of the bolt. About half my wrenches were ground and 1/4 of my 1/2" drive sockets were done to get that extra grip. Great tests, guys. I like your vids.
Most wrenches sold are12pt box ends, but I want to get a few sets of metric in varying length and offset/drop at the ends in 6 point for helping get stuff
Obviously only work on American cars. every 2nd bolt on real cars are 10mm ( Them there fight'n words... Joking but virtually true on every car built elsewhere in the world )
6 Point is important if you're trying to restore something with very specific fasteners on it so you do the least amount of damage to them. Sometimes you just can't find replacement fasteners that match.
Correct me if I’m wrong, which I might be.. but bolts are not considered in “all authentic “ restorations” if you have one bad nut or fastener.. if your restoring a car.. would you not want to put an improved option on the car? I am not a mechanic, just a simple question for someone who wants to restore their 89 5.0.
@@Auto-Bots.Custom.Detailingit’s not always about improving, simply about not being able to get a new fastener. I stretched a flywheel bolt and found not a singe place that stocked them apart from where I bought the flywheel, having to ship it from an entirely different country. Not the same situation but fasteners can be really important to not damage.
Surely cheaper/easier/quicker to take the bolt and have a nut machined? Or even an off the shelf one? Must be a standard thread pitch and size I guess? @@fridtjofriibe5961
@@Auto-Bots.Custom.Detailingyou are not giving folks enough credit on complicating things. Ford Model A guys that want it "as Henry built it" will absolutely use as much old hardware as they can, and it is all pretty unique between the script F stamps and even shapes of the head and finishes. They will buy whole cars just to rob the bolts off.
Spline is great when you don’t need to remove what you’re installing, or when you plan on throwing away the hardware you’re removing, or you just don’t care what condition your bolt is gonna be in when you’re done torquing it. 12 point is good when your hardware is already kind of loose and you need that extra half swing on a tight spot. It also fits square hardware since 12 is divisible by 4. 6 point is the go-to for breaking stuff loose or applying a final torque. Just be sure your tolerance is close for a nice tight fit and grip. And when all else fails, a Pittsburgh wrench welded to the nut will never slip 😂
14mm 6-pt on a 9/16" bolt head...close tolerance (slight friction fit if rusty or zinc plated), NO play. You'll probably shear off the head before anything else fails. (FYI, 9/16" ~14.2mm, so a 14 fits, just barely).
hi. i absolutely love the graphic in the corner visually displaying the differences between them; a lot of people test this sort of thing and throw a lot of numbers around but unless i really pay attention and write down all those numbers and compare them in my mind, it all kinda turns into number mumbo jumbo.
As a mechanic myself I always use 6 point for sockets, and 12 for wrenches. It seems to be the most versatile combination. But I might have to try out some splined wrenches, those look promising. Sometimes it's good to keep an odd inch socket laying around to beat on to a rusted mm head, or vise versa
This channel and project farm are by far the most informative and best testing channels I've ever seen. The work you and PF are doing for the world is far more than anyone would think. Thank you for taking the time and effort to make this content. God bless and thank you
Don't forget this guy. He doesn't have any recent videos but he has alot of videos that are fast moving, detailed, and extremely informative. An excellent speaker: th-cam.com/video/PmvK7h7ZL2A/w-d-xo.html
Keith's compare with PF and his statement of your value to us all, is, in my opinion, spot on! Thank you!!! PS Would love to see you test Milwaukee wrenches and others suggested by other subscribers.
I learned many years ago working on the Harrier Jets. when you find a totally rounded bolt, you can pound on a spline that is slightly smaller and Bob's your uncle.
That is why I have a spline set of wrenches and sockets (standard and metric)... for last resort... hammer it on a fastener that will not take a 6 or 12 point. You can keep dropping down a size until you've machined off the entire thing. LOL
I guess the upside of going to spline method vs extractor set is that a spline socket/wrench has a much better chance fitting in your position. Plenty of situations where its rounded off but hammering on a thick extractor socket is also out of equation. thanks for tip, I didn't even know what spline was/meant or what those funny looking sockets were about.
I am so sick of people insisting that six point sockets and wrenches will round a bolt faster than 12 point. It has never made any sense, but people insist on anecdote that it’s the case. Now I can show them this video. You guys are awesome.
This video taught me something….there are real extenders for wrenches 🤗 I’ve been using 2 wrench trick for many years, never even knew there was an actual wrench extender product.
@@John_Doe_6996 That's why you have torches, penetrating fluid, extractor sockets and, in a pinch undersized 12 point sockets that get swing-pressed on
@@guillaumefraser3813 I don't think I have ever had any luck with penetrating oil on something that wouldn't already move. I call it put it off juice, cause I can spray a load on and put off that job till later while it "soaks".
I’ve used all the different types. All are good when used as they should be. A little trickI learned on bolts where the rust buildup has made the head larger is to take the 12 point or spline drive of the size up, wiggle it back and forth to knock some scale off then slam a 6 point on it and off she goes.
Same, when I went looking for some better ones to replace my crappy no-name amazon specials I started out with I ended up with those specifically for the six point. Shame they've discontinued the reversible ones with the offset head, at least for now due to apparent supply chain issue, hoping that's not permanent, but merely "we don't have a reasoanble ETA on more so we're not even going to list them right now" situation. They do still offer six point flex heads, but me personally I just don't like how those feel if I really torque on something, which I know logically is probably dumb because if anything is gonna break it's gonna be the teeth before the pin lets go, but *shrugs* I just liked the solid offset heads better.
I have the extra long flexhead 6-point ratchet wrenches. They work well in the lot of circumstances, the six-point does Inspire confidence. The only catch is once in awhile they might snag up in a position where you don't have much room to swing it enough to get it off the fastener... not usually a big deal can usually jar it off with a hammer or something.
I've always tried to purchase 6 point every time I can except for combination wrenches as they function so much better in my experience. Thank you for confirming my otherwise unsupported bias.
Keep in mind guys, these tests were run on 40% rounded fasteners. If the hardware was new/less rounded, i expect the difference would be much smaller. And to top it off, the open end still got up to 60 lb ft. That's significant torque! If you have a fastener that needs 60+ lb ft of torque, and it's 40% rounded, you should be replacing said fastener, not worrying about what tool to use.
The way my 7th grade shop teacher put it. Way back in 1972. " you should have both 6 and 12 point wrenches. The 12 point for where there's not much space, and 6 point for everything else. " He was right.
Spline tools work great for spline bolts and spline nuts. They're used a lot on aircraft. Of course 6 point tested well on a 6 point test set. It's generally best to match type to type.
At the risk of sounding dumb I’m not a massive thinker about these things but I mean this definitely just seems like the same pattern wrench for the same pattern bolt seems to just common sense to be best the 6 on 6 gives less room to move or round off like a 12 on 12 or spline on spline
@@branaden which was not the point of this video. Most nuts and bolts people encounter on a day-to-day basis are 6-point. Box end wrenches are easier to find as 12-point or spline, so which one should a person with limited funds get when 6-point box ends are few & far between when you need one in a pinch, can't get a 6-point to fit due to angles and space for a wrench, or are just starting to build your tool collection? This video gives us useful info to consider.
You guys keep this up and there will be nothing left for us to debate as we clean up on Friday afternoons! Thanks for the great work and excellent banter. "let's round this out". classic.
6 Point is better in almost all applications , it comes down to how much surface area you are contacting. On a hex nut , having six flat sides , and the wrench having six flat sides. It just makes more common sense to use that for grip.
12 point tends to be used (correctly) in tight spaces inside stuff that's going to be well maintained and not turn rusty. Inside engines, or in tight spots in aircraft construction where there won't be space to turn a whole flat at a time on a 6 point. Where they'll not be subject to corrosion, and good practise is applied i.e. fasteners are torqued to spec as designed 12 point is absolutely fine. They're crap if allowed to corrode, and they're not compatible with those types who just crank everything as tight as they feel like.
If the engineer did his job and gives you at least 90 deg to turn then it is, else ... But in the end, to be frank, if the bolts are fastened to the spec, even a wonky open wrench does the job just fine. If the wrench fails on tightening you are overdoing it.
I did a lot of fastener testing in previous jobs, you will find that using a new nut and bolt each time will produce quite different results even with the same setup, so to say any one spanner gives x amount of torque you'd want to test it 10 to 20 times and then take an average result for sure. The scatter between measurements can be huge, and really you should lubricate the threads to try to make it consistant.
torque specs are always given for clean dry bolts unless specifically noted, so if you want realistic, pragmatic results you would use clean dry threads when testing, not oiled.
True if testing torque ability of different brand spanners but only thing being test is the ability of types 6 point 12 point and spline types to see which style is best. This isn't a torque test.
@@kenjett2434 no thats not what I meant, I meant you need to test each spanner with a nut/bolt several times and take an average, the scatter in results can be quite high even when using the same setup.
YES! Thank you! This should be of great help to the guys and gals getting into automotive, and do not have the experience yet to make the right choice on their first sets. Forums are FULL of "12 pts is just as good at 6pts!" comments, which lead many new DIY rust belt mechanics astray (me included a decade ago), having to buy a 2nd 6pt set after a dozen of rounded bolts with 12pts.
@@kd5nrh Yes, and how many 12-point spark plug sockets have you seen? The cool thing about a 30-year-old set of 12-point deep sockets that you might have sitting around your garage is this: the spark plug socket insulator/rubber has long since deteriorated, making it a fine 6-point deep socket for general use now ... and guess what can outperform the 12-point deep sockets next to it?!
I love your analysis and research. I found this info especially useful in showing the necessity for 6-point wrenches/sockets on rounded fasteners mainly on cars. Working in factories on brand new bolts and equipment 12-point is far more versatile and recommended by me (wrenches). While having 6-point sockets is ALWAYS the baseline due to no issues with angles.
Spline drive has aviation origins. Designed to get greater torque on a smaller head. I have 6 point tools, 12 point tools and spline. Use them appropriately. Don’t pick one type and try to use it on every fastener. This test shows the importance of using a six point tool on a standard hex head (unless limited swing is required) & a 12 point or spline on a double hex head.
I anticipated this result, though had forgotten about spline spanners. I’ve had a few premium 12 sided sockets start slipping on bolts, switched to a mid-grade 6 point and eased the bolt out. A quality 6 point will always be my go-to unless there’s something preventing it.
Same experience for me, I work on classic cars, so regularly encounter stubborn nuts and bolts. Had my tools stolen and when I replaced, I purchased a full Craftsman set, lifetime warranty, and all sockets and ring spanners come in both 6pt & 12pt. Adequate quality tools and gives me a bigger selection, so I can pick the right tool for the job.
This is why i ALWAYS buy and use 6 point sockets UNLESS I need the 12 point or spline for getting in low access areas (very rare) or I need something special like an external torx etc but that's a different situation altogether. Great video, I appreciate someone confirming what I have suspected on my own.. I always tell people this and they think I am overexaggerating but now I will reference this video as proof when talking about 12point vs 6 pint with my gearhead friends!
In my experience, the spline wrenches are less than ideal in tight areas. Once they bite a fastener in a closed space it can be an ordeal to get them back off
I expected those results. In my line of work I have used all styles of wrenches. 6 points always did better, but one can’t always use them…that what vice grips are for :). Live confidently and peacefully
As an engineer I have to say 12 sided sockets are a necesity, it's quite often I have to undo bolts or nuts in positions where I can only make a 1/12 turn before the handle bumps into something else.
I do not see another design here: There is a design, which basically is a 6 point but with rounded insides. The idea is, that the load is not on the high points of the hex, but on the flat sides of the nut.
I have a Metrinch socket set since the early 90's. Great set bar for one size: 9/16- 14mm. From brand new it slipped on both metric and imperial (perfect nuts and bolts). Just a fuck up in manufacturing the size- couldn't see any defect. Can attest to their strength and grip- never had any other size slip even on a fairly rounded wheel nut.
Yep, absolute life savers when it comes to undo already rounded stuck nuts. It's crazy that these seem to have completely vanished from the market although they are the best ones. Makes you wonder...
@@pourquoippaass4284 they haven't vanished. They've just become the Norm for the major tool industries. Look at any snap-on, Mac, or matco Adv sockets they all have a "kerf" or a little round spot on the points of the hex in the socket. This allows the point of the hardware to not contact and instead it grabs on the flats.. its just so common now they don't even advertise it
I agree with another poster here. The 12 pointers are useless in Minnesota! All they do it round the bolts off / break them. I replaced all my 12 point Sockets with 6 points!
That’s why I buy 6 point everything, although I have had some luck with spline drive grabbing on some partially rounded bolts so I keep a set of them handy. Regular 12 point is just great at turning hexagons into circles
my favorite use is 6 points on easy to get to areas, 12 points on hard to get to and damaged hardware and splined on spline hardware. for the most part I only see spline bolts and nuts on airplanes so tip to people working towards your A&P, buy spline box end wrenches and sockets.
That's crazy, the difference between the open end and box end. Considering how much lower it can be on the open end, i'd love to see a whole bunch of brands compared on just open end performance, since at those levels a little may go a long way in performance difference. Some brands are supposed to be better designed as well, where as box ends are design wise pretty similar between wrenches.
I’d be real interested in that kind of test with truck & Japanese brands. Truck brands are a known quantity, more or less, the Japanese brands less so.
I would like to see this as well. God knows every once in a while you get a fastener or if you work on hydraulics a lot. Where a open end is the only thing you can get on the fastener.
@@TorqueTestChannel a good idea would be to also to test Milwaukee open end wrenches with the extra grip point and flank drive and snap on open wrenches with their flank drive and see if it gets any closet to 6 point
I'm a diesel Mechanic and I use 6 point every time I can because in my experience it's the best to use. I've have 12 point start to strip nuts and bolts. I don't have any spline wrenches but I have a few spline sockets for certain things.
Basically what ive learned just in personal times working on rusted classic cars and trucks. Is a six point will almost always be better getting stuck bolts loose or tightening without slipping. But just those certain occasions where you are in a tight spot and you dont have much movement in a wrench or ratchet. The 12 point has more chance of getting on the bolt than a 6
Measure the size of the tools between brands and you'll see a huge difference in tolerance to the fastener. That makes a huge difference in how much torque a tool hand handle. Some brands are so bad you can use a 1/2 on a 13mm or a 14 on a 9/16. Thanks for the comparison 👍
I do alot of work on my vehicles and I'm often times using a 1/2 for a 13mm bolt or nut. I have just assumed they are one in the same except one is metric and the other is SAE. Never really occurred to me that they should not work that way.
I have a minor issue with the unsupported end of the coupling nuts. An "empty" nut is almost never encountered in real life. I would have filled the end of the nut with a bolt or piece of all-thread to keep it from collapsing.
Fair enough, but that's not the end that was collapsing. The nut would compress length wise, and budge at the dyno side. Which was full of grade 8 thread.
The point wasn't to test maximum torque but simply to compare wrenches to one another. Since they compress the same way each time and they all slip at some point it doesn't matter.
Doesn't really matter considering that the only wrenches capable of doing that where the 6 point wrenches. It isn't really important how much torque you can put on something, nor is it the point of the video, it's a matter of 'how much more torque' which they've shown wonderfully here.
@@TorqueTestChannel I think what actually justifies your methodology, as FoxPro points out is that you are doing a comparative not absolute test. But the point about the open threads allowing distortion of the head is well taken, as anybody who's wrenched professionally for very long knows, the most difficult nut to remove is a flare nut for this very reason.
I am 79 and never was a "professional" mechanic. But, in my 20's and 30's, I built a lot of sports car race engines for rally cars. I started off with Western Auto (now defunct) tools, upgraded to Craftsman and finally on to Snap-On. Along the way I tried Gear Wrench and found little or no difference between Snap-On and Gear Wrench. A while back I bought some Tekton tools and was amazed at how good they were. So far, working on my own cars, I have not been able to break a Tekton wrench. And, believe me, I have tried. Of course, this is only my experience. I am quite sure that there will be others who will have a different story. Finally, I hate spline wrenches as they always seem to round off the bolt/nut head. I do not want the expected headache that experience causes.
Right tool for the right job! When you have limited tools on hand, you limit your solutions to the problem. Splines may be used once the torque has been reduced by a six point, and where range of motion is limited. And always have the correct bolt replacement if you have worn the bolt/ nut from the removal process. Don’t skimp out on automobile parts because over torqued bolts may lead to failure on down the road. Understanding that the tools you have on hand may have been hardened steel removing softer steel bolts can cause stripping as you demonstrated can help newer viewers. This is a very good demonstration that you posted.
I quit having stripped fastener problems a while after I started replacing hardware when it had any sign of damage (instead of using again). I’ve had to build quite a hardware stock, but it’s great. I realized a few years ago that screwdrivers wear out, and replacing them with quality prevents a lot of trouble too.
Was a little concerned when I was having difficulty finding a six-point for something I thought I needed it for, but demonstrating that a worn head can take about twice as much torque as I needed makes me feel better about it.
I have been a mechanic for 3 decades. 6 point box end wrenches have always done exactly what I needed them to do when I needed them to do it (loosen a stuck fastener). I use my12 pt wrenches for low torque and when the angle of the fastener + swing needed prevents the use of a 6 pt. I too always thought the spline tools were, as you put it - gimmicky, but I may buy some spline wrenches now based on these results because the best tool a mechanic has in his toolbox is the one that works when he needs it to work.
God, i love how manufacturers and consumers are finally moving away from the long overdue dumpsterfire that is phillips & flathead sockets. Went to the hardware store the other day (first time in a long time) to buy some hefty replacement 12mm screws to secure a parasol on the porch. Almost all of them were some form of hex which put a smile on my face. As i got to work installing them, it turns out the wood was very stubborn but so was i. Excessive amounts of torque later (which would have shredded philips & flats 20 times over), the 12mm screwhead flew off like a bullet and ripped all the skin off one of my knuckles. I've never been happier to get such an injury.
Absolutely! I've seen 8hrs + spent in a heavy truck shop just getting the 10 stainless Phillips screws out of the shifter boot in the cab on an otherwise 4 hr transmission removal and clutch replacement! Couldn't heat em because of plastic, Couldn't drill too stringy an overheat plastic, no impact drivers, floor too springy, using valve lapping compound on the driver bit is the most effective by far. I detest flat (straight blade) and have loudly called Mr Phillips everything not in the dictionary and suggested where he could store his fasteners! Best tool for that I always carry in my pocket is a Rigid 6" pipe wrench with the jaw rivets flattened so it lays flat enough to grip screw heads.
Wanna have a laugh at my expense? My country still doesn't sell square, hex(internal and external), torx screws for general use. Square is always for decking screws Hex is always 8mm or thicker Torx is always on a stainless steel bolt. I'd kill for a packet of 30mm long 8 gauge square head screws
hex were always ones for heavier jobs. That being said it's pretty impossible if you want the screwhead to be flat and compact ( electronics, glasses small stuff ).
I've had 12-point box-ends bind like that spline. I've always thought splines look funny; couldn't see how they'd be good, but now I want a set. The versatility of a 12-point but with more bite strength. "Round out our data." Augh the pun! 🤣
so what your saying is that adding more facets, making it more like a circle, the more it will tend to slip. mind blown. this channel is great, love anything that reveals ubiquitous marketing bs today.
Love this video. You turned my whole world upside down. I have been using 12 point wrench for the last 20 years on all those difficult bolts thinking is the best. I need a moment to recover. hehehe
@@TorqueTestChannel maybe test different adjustable wrenches? Like the US made Proto and rigid(made by the same company I believe), a couple of the Japanese ones like the Nepros and lobster brand, and maybe the Spanish made channel lock, those are supposed to be pretty good crescent wrenches. Also maybe throw in some cheap Chinese ones for fun.
Thank you. I'm only a year into my industrial mechanic career and have basic sockets. I'm getting to the point where I'm going to invest in more tools and will be buying a 6pt set before 12 or spline.
The @AVE channel has a bit about this: Look at the depth of the tall sockets, cheapo brands the bolt will go the entire length of the socket. Better brands typically have more shallow "depths". Allowing you to better hand start the bolt when putting it back in.
I would love to see you re-test the Knipex pliers wrench against an open end wrench and adjustable wrench like this. I have the 12" and 16" XL Knipex pliers wrenches and I use them ALL the time at work on heavy equipment, but when I get asked to borrow a pipe wrench or adjustable, all my friends/coworkers turn their nose up at it when I offer it to them instead. The beauty of them is that they don't "spread", because the harder you push, the harder they squeeze the flats of the fastener. I can't remember a time when they slipped on me, i'm always careful how I position them
„Dad/guy who taught me did not use them and they are from another country so they must be shit“ - but don‘t be sad, few ppl in Germany use Vise-Grips for the same reason, that might be because we have great Knipex Pliers but you still have to hold them shut.
I can do 50nm of torque in the right direction with the tinniest 125mm knipex wrench pliers and even the 150mm still fits on my pocket for every day carry. And I own the 250mm/12" ever since I saw a youtuber use it years ago. They work amazingly well without slipping or damage anything. And if you pull your nose up for knipex you're an absolute fool, who need vice-grips of your knipex cobra's actually grip instead of slide over something round. Knipex is THE brand for pliers if you ask me.
Proof that the specific geometry is really important. 6 vs 6 and 12 vs 12 vary greatly across brands. As a rust belt resident, I only use 12pt on stuff that's new, or needs a specific 12pt. 6pt and spline (hammered on) are the rule of the day.
I only have anecdotal evidence of what I use and when, and sadly sometime 12 point is all I have available. But I personally disagreed when I saw AvE’s video back when he posted it. I always try to buy 6 point sockets and wrenches. Imo they also help when a fastener is severely deformed or degraded and you can hammer them on to reform the metal into a slightly smaller size. Was happy to see some data confirming my limited and uncontrolled experience. Thank you for sharing!
I picked up a socket set recently and made sure to get 6-points because, as you mentioned, there is no real alignment issue with a ratchet so why give up the extra contact area unless you are dealing with 12-point bolts at some point.
Being a mechanic, there are some VERY tight spaces you get in where 12 point is needed. Also, many socket ratchets are in the 4-3 degrees movement for the same reason, tight spaces.
yeah i dont get why ratcheting wrenches are almost universally made with 12 point ends.. i live in eastern canada 5 year old vehicles have rusted bolt that need sockets hammered onto them... would appreciate some 6 point ratchetting wrenches that done cost their weight in lumber
@@brucemadden1626 If you have a high tooth count ratchet for tight spaces then a 12 point socket isn't really giving you any extra benefit except maybe taking a second or two less to align. In something like a box end it is a different story because there is only so far you can actually adjust your position. I still think that for your average person who just wants a reliable socket set for around the house a 6-point is probably going to serve them better.
@@brucemadden1626 my friend in tech school had Mac fine toothed 3/8 ratchet that was a beast for stuck fasteners in hard to reach places even with a cheater bar on it never broke
@@AndrewBrowner wow, I just looked to see what options are out there for 6 sided ratcheting box wrenches and saw that Tekton makes some and usually their stuff is reasonable, but wow. I'll keep my harbor freight 12 point ratcheting wrenches, and my 6 sided socket set. If it's ever too stripped for a wrench or too tight for a socket, I'll grab my locking crescent wrench and pray for mercy
Thank you for this video! As someone who has bought and worked on used motorcycles; it is useful to know that the 6pt holds up the best, as there tends to be a lot of questionable bolts on used motorcycles.
This matches my experience with sockets exactly. I avoid 12 points due to how easily they can strip a bolt, user error or not. They really only excel in rare situations you cant position your 6 point in a turnable way.
I would just about swear by my Proto wrenches. I've had my full set for about 3 years now and I've relegated all of my other non-ratcheting wrenches to an old tool box to gather dust. You should do a complete test from brand to brand. I'd be very curious to see the differences. Too many are piss poor excuses for a good tool.
Agreed. I have the flex head ratcheting spline wrenches up to 3/4" and they're excellent, especially in a tight space. Wouldn't trade them for anything. Got the regular 12pt combo up to 1 5/8" for double-wrenching and using as strike wrenches lol
About 10 years ago, I found a couple well used PROTO wrenches that had been lost/left by somebody on the side of the road and threw them in my box--they were metric as is my vehicle so I figured they'd be useful some day.....I used them a couple times and it was pretty apparent that they were 'different' in a good way. I've been a 'car guy' since the 1970's and an A&P since 1983 so I have some knowledge of tools.....A set of the PROTO metric wrenches is in my box today along with MAC and SnapOff and Harbour Freight and a few others....lol. Whatever works is best...
There are 2 more styles i would like to see tested. The first is the "surface drive". Those dont grip on the corner but rather somewhere in the middle of the flat. I also heard the statement that the metrinch design (tool that is usable on both metric and imperial sizes), can outperform the other designs. Thanks.
"Surface Drive" was originally called "Flank Drive" by Snap-On when they invented it years ago. It has rounded points at the corners of the spanner or socket opening so that the torque is applied to the fastener a little way in from the corners of the nut or bolt and therefore is less likely to round off the fastener. It also works better on slightly rounded fasteners. This is widely copied by other manufacturers now the patent has expired. Another benefit is that they tend to be a "sloppy fit" on the nut/bolt so you can get away with using a metric socket/spanner on an slightly larger inch fastener or vice versa when the sizes are close, e.g. 1/2"-13mm, 14mm-9/16", 5/8"-16mm, 17mm-11/16" etc. I think that Metrinch are using this characteristic to offer a reduced number of sockets or spanners in a set, as they definitely are "surface drive". It would seem that some if not all the sockets and spanners tested here have "surface drive" openings but I can't be sure. Comment please Torque Test Channel. One more thing, the spline drive spanners look impressive, but if you are using a spanner it probably means that you can't get a socket in there because access is tight. If the spline drive bites into the nut you won't be able to remove it to swing it 30 degrees and refit it. If it's a spline drive socket and it is firmly gripping the nut you will have a struggle to get it out of the socket after you have taken the nut off the bolt.
@@bimble7240 Pretty much any socket you can buy here in Norway is the flank drive style with rounded corners. Not seen a flat face on a socket in years.
I've had a set of metwrench for longer than I can remember. Bought them at Wal-Mart for IDK 25 dollars when i needed to fix something one day and did not have any tools with me. They have proven themselves time and time again. Their grip is amazing even tho they feel sloppy on everything. Unless it's completely rounded or rusted away. I have never broken one and I've used a cheater bar many many times on them. The boxed end wrenches are good as well. Double wrenched or a cheater pipe on them lots of times as well. The open ends are nearly useless as they require about ⅜ of a turn before grabbing the bolt / nut. But take warning, buy pretty much any other brand of ratchets to go with these great sockets and throw the ones that come in the set into the scrap pile as soon as you open the box. Their ratchets are a waste of metal
@@bimble7240 that is a piece of history I didn't know. The design I had in mind was this: images.app.goo.gl/zjgxkAeLB9MkoWis8 Is it the same thing as a 'standard' flank drive? The reason I ask is that I live in Europe and heard about metrinch about 8 years ago (was on a training course from work). Surface drive I read about only 3 to 4 years ago when looking trough a catalogue for a replacement mini socket set. Since I work is in the electrical side of the business, I am not that familiar or updated with al the designs that are available. Thanks in advance.
Great video. After using 12 point everything for 20 years of DIY repairs and maintenance, I am a firm believer in the 6 pt stuff now that I do it professionally part-time. A tip when using a 6 pt socket and breaker bar is to rotate the socket 90 degrees either way on the anvil to give you the same angles as 12 point would. Having ratcheting wrenches also helps a ton over standard wrenches for this compared to 12pt. I got mine from tekton as it is hard to find a 6pt flex head. For bigger stuff I use the quinn nano sockets with a 22 mm gear wrench flex head wrench.
My Craftsman spline wrenches are the same design as the one you got and I can attest that they grip really nice on most fasteners. Interestingly, the spline are also advertised as universal, which makes me cringe too! I’m curious how universal and what the limits are for different fastener head designs they claim spline works on. It would be a tedious episode to make, but really fascinating! Perhaps one day!
They work on 4, 6, and 12 point as well as square, Etorx, and of course are the only one out there that work properly on spline heads, they're not as good as dedicated versions of each but they will grip and turn, they can also work on some thumb nuts or wing nuts
@@paulhailey2537 That really doesnt matter at all. Remember, Anything is a Hammer if you use it wrong enough except in this case you cant use it wrong. A Spline Wrench will work just fine on any bolt head.
Just from personal experience working in a auto service center, I always recommend a 6 sided socket or wrench for bolts you remove often like a oil plug. 12 point or spline wrenches and sockets will chew that bolt up over time.
All my friends give me shit for preferring 6 point wrenches. They say "12 point is less likely to strip" and I've always called bullshit on that. So this video felt so damn gratifying.
This is excellent testing. I've kinda always felt this, namely from experience and this makes me feel better about my choice to go with 6 point for my ratcheting spanners. They've proven absolutely excellent leagues better than all the 12 point's I'd used and had before them.
I’ve used surface drive sockets for years now and they can work better than six point sockets .. because they apply force to the flats of the fixings not the points Would love to see a test on them… your channel is brilliant please keep it up 👍
As an aviation mechanic we have mostly 12 point bolt heads, a few spline head bolts, and even fewer 6 point nuts and bolt heads. I would be really intestate in seeing the numbers of a hex head bolt with a6 point wrench vs a spline head bolt and a spine wrench vs 12 on 12. Without rounding any corners i would find those numbers interesting
Seeing how surprised you were by what you thought was a gimmick, I’d love to see some other tools along those lines like the universal/gator grip sockets, bionic wrench, craftsman ReFlex adjustables, adjustable box wrenches, any of the wide variety of attempts at making a ratcheting open end etc. in general whether these apparent gimmicks are actually worth anything or not. I love collecting them and appreciate all the wacky designs companies come up with, and some actually are quite useful like a gator grip on eye bolts. Also would like to see a variety of rounded/broken bolt extractor brands and designs tested, that’s a particularly unclear topic as to which ones work better than others
Gator grip sockets are a godsend on wingnuts too, not just eyebolts. I have one specifically for installing and removing cables on difficult to access aircraft batteries. I might use it occasionally on something like a battery tiedown nut just so I don't have to go back and get another socket, but wingnuts are where it outperforms every other tool commercially available.
A great test although I hesitate using spline drive as it seems to always mar the nut or bolt. An open end shoot out would be good but compared to other open end types. One thing that I have noticed is when it comes to the actual spanner dimension and finish applied this affects the potential of the spanner to apply maximum torque. Some will have a heaver chrome or nickel finish and these seem to wear a lot faster. I have a Sidchrome set purchased in the 80's and they were so tight when new they needed to be tapped onto some nuts. They have held up extremely well over the years.
Seems to me that the spline drive might be good if its a bit stuck and your planning on replacing the bolt or nut. I haven't actually used a spline drive, so I could be wrong.
Typically if a bolt or nut is already partially rounded and you're fighting to get it out, you're already planning to replace it, so whatever bites best is best! Just my thoughts as a rust heap wrencher.
@@802Garage in that case, the answer is a proper extractor. Then take that breaker bar and beat whatever a$$hat decided you can't have a 15mm or 18mm extractor in the set.
@@kd5nrh That's AN answer, but it's also more time consuming and usually means going in your special tools drawer and then finding the best size and if you have room to hammer it on etc. So if you can get it with a wrench that bites first then. 👌 I hear you though.
Great video, proves that we need every tool available at our disposal just in case. Some are better at degrees of throw, some at worn fasteners, some at brute strength for super tight fasteners. Thanks!
My uncle is a mechanic and when spline was coming out I asked him about it. He said they worked great. Seemed odd to me that they would. Later on we were working on a truck and we used spline. It impressed me. Talked to a maintenance guy also that uses spline and he said. It was good also. May end up replacing my 12 point with spline. Don't really see the reason for 12 points anymore.
My proto set is bar none, the absolute most I've ever blown on hand tools but they're damn nice wrenches and seem to hold tight where my old craftsman fails. Excellent and relevant video guys, thank you
I have a an early 1900s 1 inch drive ratchet and socket set I love. I was always curious if snap on got its beginnings with Proto. I have heard that but never was sure
Brand makes a huge difference with their respective production quality. Actually had a Snapon 14mm 6 point socket round transmission bolts because of the poor fit. But I'd be dammed if a Pittsburgh finished the remaining bolts without a problem. I could tell a big difference as the Pittsburgh had a smaller tolerance. People like to joke about Harbor Fraught tools but they've really stepped up their game. I've put some of their stuff through the wringer as a mobile tech and it's still in my box working fine. Where I work now provides SnapOn and I've watched some spectacular tool carnage on things my personal stuff would've never failed on.
Did Harbor Freight step up their Game or did China 🤔 In my opinion, Snap On uses soft steel where it will bend or give and not easily break. Whilst China uses steel that will break or round off fasteners more so.
harbor freight and even Pittsburg (the brand) don't really make tools, they buy excess or appearance defect tools, meaning that their quality is not consistent, but if you can top grade them they can be great.
Those tools at HF are all "less then perfect" from actual brands. So some are actually decent. As said, he needs to measure the wrenches and compare identical sizes. Some 12s have tighter points then some 6s.
i am a millwright and i use hf wrenches and sockets more often than any other brand. i always choose impact grade over chrome and 6 pt over 12 pt. rarely do i strip a bolt head or nut.
@@vidard9863 You believe they are buying others "appearance defect tools" then reforging them just to get their branding on them? And, you think this process would be cheaper?
In all my 35+ yrs working as a mechanic and bodyman here in the mid-southern portion of the rust belt (north enough to get the northern mix road salt, but south enough to rarely get it.) I only have a couple 6point box end wrenches, most(99.8%) are the 12point combos. Have a pretty selection of 12point sockets, chrome and impact. Over the decades, I've bought what I needed, when I needed it. If I had to barrow it twice, I bought my own. I have a 1/2" 6point combo wrench because, that's the 1st size what VW/ Porsche exhaust nuts dissolve too. A little farther north they drop too12mm, but usually at that point, you're replacing the stud, or the whole damn head.
Awesome video! Spline often gets a bad rap - my theory is that it is because it is confused with "universal" drive. The spline design allows for a wider tolerance range than typical 12pt, which has tempted many manufacturers to release so-called "universal" wrenches and sockets that supposedly fit SAE and metric fasteners. What that actually means is that they use a spline drive design that "splits the difference" between SAE and Metric. It will inherently be a sloppy fit on some sizes and a tight fit on others - and hence suck. Using a properly-sized spline drive on the other hand, really ought to be better - and it's fantastic to have some evidence to point to showing that is the case.
A comprehensive and masterful example of practical tool designs. I’ll be going with a spline and hex set of sockets and wrenches when I get paid. Thanks again
I would be interested in what condition the spline wrenches leave the head in. I have always felt that they get good grip simply because they dig into the head.
I love my spline ratchet wrenches. They are my go to. However, If it looks like trouble I always go for 6 point. this test didn't surprise me only gave actual data to confirm it. Thanks for the video.
I usually ONLY use a 12 point wrench on a 12 point bolt. Otherwise, no. No.. I'm impressed with the spline ends, I may add a set of those to my wrench set. 6 points are fantastic but if you're in a tight spot and can't get a socket in, it's tough to use. Great work!
It is interesting seeing how when most of the designs cammed out is after you stop turning and reposition. Difference in getting something stationary moving versus keeping something already moving on motion
The coefficient of kinetic friction is always less than the coefficient of static friction. Physics. That is why a car which is skidding will continue to slide till it hits something or you get the wheels turning to match the direction of skid. After that you can start to re-establish control.
Some bicycle axle nuts are now a 12-point nut, which looks awesome (very round looking) and grabs the wrench with 12 points. It's more decorative than for strength, but it is strange there was never really a movement to introduce 12-point nut and bolt heads.
torx fasteners are the more commonly used upgrade to hex hardware. has been used in european vehicles for longer but is becoming more common in domestics.
I've also been skeptical of spline drive wrenches. I've seen specialty fasteners that are spline drive. The socket was only an 1/8 thick at the narrowest point but it could take ~17,000 ft lbs on about a 4" nut. Other sockets that size are 1/4-3/8 thick at the narrowest point. I'm curious how much the spline drive would mangle the head at a given torque. Also some impact sockets have "off corner loading" designs that are supposed to reduce rounding. They might perform better. Great stuff, TTC
That's my main problem with using spline: They have a tendency, especially on softer stuff, to cause problems. Granted my experience isn't the most common, but aircraft can use stuff like aluminum bolts. Using spline might destroy them when I need them to go back on-and same with the fittings. Besides, they're supposed to be torqued to a relatively low number (3/4" high-pressure fittings get, say, 70 ft/lbs max torque) often, so open-ended wrenches are typically more than enough.
The rounded outer corner was something that started appearing in the 90's if I remember correctly, and I first saw it on six side box end wrenches. I was pretty skeptical at the time as it looked like yet another gimmick but it turned out to actually work as intended. Last I took a walk down the isles of wrenches in a hardware store it seemed almost every brand was using that design. A six sided socket with sharp corners didn't seem to exist on the shelves. Now I've never used a spline drive socket or wrench though. I can't help but thinking they have to chew up the nut pretty badly though.
Ive always wondered if there was a difference between a open end wrench one way, vs the other way. Same goes for ajustable wrenchs. I always have the feeling that one way has less chance to slip than the other. Could you verify that?🙂
there definitely is with locking pliers or an adjustable wrench and even pipe wrenches one way clamps down on the fastner the other way the jaws spread if that makes sense
I've heard that before about adjustable wrenches. I can't see it being different on an open end wrench unless it's a special one with teeth that grip one way (I've seen that on Capri Tools) or those self ratcheting ones with little rubber pads in the jaws (Mastercraft and Gearwrench have those) I'd be interested to see the test on adjustables though
I just weld a larger nut on stripped or broken heads. Let it cool down a good bit and off or out it comes. Cost is pennies another Way is drill a hole in flat or angle stock, place over stripped bolt head and weld, this allows you to break it loose but many times can't make full turn and is my least favorite trick. Hope this helps some people 👍
We plan to for open ends (requested in comments here) but you can't measure spline and 12-point you can but it's not as comparable to 6-point. More like between 12-points. Because of where you need to measure it.
@@TorqueTestChannel I'm just a 'youtube expert' but I think the right measurement tool for this would be gauge pins. I think measuring the largest cylinder that fits in the wrench at all ends will give you a very good idea of the tolerance, rather than attempting to use calipers to do it.
@@TorqueTestChannel Test angular deviation at a fixed distance from the nut. That will give you apples to apples tolerance. Sorta. Maybe lemons to limes comparison haha.
@@TorqueTestChannel Thats rather unfortunate, i feel like more quality control goes into the splined tools just based on how much better they look. Im willing to bet that plays a major part in the differences you saw.
I love it! Great science. Snap on makes a 6-pt with rounded corners that they say is best. It kind of combines the spline concept with a standard 6-pt. I would love to see an extended review.
I have seen a brand that works by using the flats, not the points. Have not seen them slip ( twist sideways much as all spanners do ). Have not seen that brand for a long time ( over 20 years ), shame as I lost too many of them. ( probably in someone else's toolbox after they tried them )
Snap-On got a patent on "flank drive" in 1965, which added the rounded rather than triangular broach. When it was exclusive, nothing could come even close to a Snap On 6 point, and part of what lead them to be able to dominate the pro market in those days. I think it expired after 20 years, so 1985 ish, and everybody copied the profile pretty quickly, part of what lead them to lose their domination since. They added a "flank drive plus" feature in 1990, which used similar concept on the open side, and which, despite seeming subtle, does significantly increase the torque before rounding.
I am a industrial mechanic and I personally use 12pt in my chrome sockets, 6 on wrenches and impact. I use the 12pt on alot of the blower motors I tend to work on that all have 12pt bolts on them and I like the adjustability of them in confined spaces paired with a high tooth count socket wrench. Now I only have up to 1" 12pt sockets. Everything above that going into 1 1/8th and up sockets or wrenches are all 6 point. If you are rounding over a 1" bolt head then you've got some problems other than your wrenches lol. Just my two cents. Great video tho, great data. 👍
My hands are pulsating and hurting from all the memories I've destroyed myself with tools, and when they turned against me. Everytime I see a slip, I can feel the painful sensation hahah oh god
There nice I picked one up off the truck about a month ago they make a couple different size and I manage to use it Atleast a few times a week well worth it
The absolute best is the Mueller-Kueps Wrench Extender (three sizes) but they're so easy to make! th-cam.com/video/6zjQSTbLsJY/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/AFU73w1GOvw/w-d-xo.html or the ultimate lazy; flatten a piece of 3' round pipe till your wrench just fits in it. Done. (that's the one on the front of the alignment rack)
Speaking as a professional auto tech, here's my breakdown of real-world tool usage, which pretty much mirrors the video's findings: Spline is best for ratcheting wrenches and ratchet sockets because it'll grip almost anything and hold onto fasteners well enough to make actuating ratchet mechanisms easier, whereas other geometries are more prone to slipping off. It may or may not be ideal for breaking stuck hardware loose, however, unless the fastener is rounded too much for a 6-point to work effectively on it. 6-point/single-hex is the best option for raw torque, assuming the fastener has clean enough contact surfaces to work. I will frequently use a 6-point wrench to break a tight fastener loose and then switch to a spline ratchet if I can't get a socket/ratchet onto it. If I _can_ get a ratchet and socket onto it and it's too rounded for a 6 to grab and too tight to pop loose with spline, it gets a nut remover socket instead. 12-point/double-hex is more suited toward moderate torque or double-hex bolts/nuts. I usually only use those in ratchet/socket as my fixed wrenches are combination-6 and ratcheting wrenches are either 6 or spline. The only fasteners I encounter in the wild with any amount of regularity on passenger vehicles are CV axle nuts. I have all three geometries in all sizes from 5.5 to 24mm, but 6-points are definitely the go-to workhorse geometry out in the real world on real cars/trucks with real rust/grime/monkey-pawprints on real fasteners.
I always thought Gearwrench was a moderately high end brand, but every time I see these tests they tell me otherwise. On the other hand, I have been burned by one of the newer Craftsman tools and decided they were crap, but when I see them tested on TH-cam they usually do relatively well. This is good stuff to know, and I'll have to keep it in mind in the future.
My buddy swears by GearWrench but they have disappointed me many times. Craftsman is also not up to professional standards. If you want reliable performance, you will have to spend the money on a high end tool.
Where I live, most of us laugh at Gearwrench because we've all been burned. They're box ended designs seemed to have more play in them than other brands (although Craftsmen these days now falls in that category). If I need some ok tools that I don't need absolute precision on I just get Harbor Freight's Pittsburgh line. If a socket or wrench snaps from that set, I don't get as upset because expectations are already low. Lol. I have old Craftsman and Snap On, peppered with DeWalt sockets for other things.
@@dchawk81 I understand the point of having higher priorities and the excessive cost of tools off the trucks. That being said, if you are doing mechanic work in confined areas and every little bit matters, I still would buy a set of the SnapOn Flank Drive Plus combo wrenches (used if need be). I have put mine to the test and have never been disappointed. The open end has teeth that grip the bolt or nut like no other wrench I've seen. The box end is slim, fits just about anywhere and grips as well as any 12pt can. I'd say they are well worth the investment. For sockets, ratchets, extensions and other common tools , much of the Harbor Freight stuff does the job and at a price that is a lot easier to justify.
the 6-point is by far the best in a new fastener. 12-point was created because the industry isn't standardized and bolts and nuts of multiple, often lower qualities are manufactured, and also often time and usage have taken its toll. The spline is a further try in that direction. To undo a damaged nut/bolt, just heat it until red, and make a smaller 12-point fit and if that doesn't work, melt it. In surface areas to remove a damaged screw use mig on a nut and if that doesn't work, drill it and a helli coil is the only decent solution.
The way it was described to me when I was in automotive school was that 6-point has more surface contact than a 12-point and will therefor apply more of your force to the surface of the nut, vs a 12-point will have that same pressure hitting less of the nut, and will therefor be more likely to slip. Similar to if you are able to grip something with your whole hand vs just a small portion of your hand, the one with more contact will offer a better grip. That is also why the open end wrench is not as good, because that open end accounts for 1/3rd of the surface contact that is automatically just missing, so it is a handicap overall. The appeal of the open end wrench and the 12-point wrench is that is that the open end can slip onto any hexagonal nut without needing access to the end to slip over it, and the 12-point has more angles of use, where the 6 point has exactly half as many angles of use. They DO have their necessary uses.
A 3/4" Wright broke with two grown men standing on a 6' pipe. The Wright dealer put a kit in it, and it's still fine. Also saw a 4' Ridged pipe wrench fail, twice. Once with the tow motor forks operating it, and once with the chains from a 15 ton overhead crane around the handle.
@@randymagnum143 I saw a ridged pipe wrench with a big ass pipe getting pushed down with a t300 bobcat to the point the bobcat was lifting off the ground
There are so, so, so many situations you can't get a ratchet and socket on and you can only get a wrench on it. And ratcheting wrenches are great too, but again, often don't fit. To be fair I work on planes, which generally don't have so many issues with really stuck fasteners like cars do, and the engines of which (at least turbines) almost exclusively use 12pts. But even working on cars, it's still a good tool to have. The extra degrees can make the difference between the job being a total pain in the ass and the job just not getting done.
I think any mechanic that knows their stuff, already knew the six point would easily win. I very rarely use 12 point, unless it's all I have. Make it a walldrive six point, and you'd get even more torque down.
If cost weren't an issue, all fasteners would be 12 point. A 12 point fastener with a 12 point socket would have the most torque holding capacity. There is a reason these are used in mission critical applications like con rods, axle bolts, head bolts, and occasionally flywheels.
If cost weren't an issue, all fasteners would be 12 point. A 12 point fastener with a 12 point socket would have the most torque holding capacity. There is a reason these are used in mission critical applications like con rods, axle bolts, head bolts, and occasionally flywheels.
*Follow up video testing 14 brands on the open end! **th-cam.com/video/DzY4jg7NmKw/w-d-xo.html*
If you're wondering why 12 point and spline are being tested on 6-point fasteners, its because that's how they are used 95% of the time in a shop environment. And how they are sold to us on tool trucks. Combination wrenches are as old as time yet very infrequently used on actual 12-point or spline head bolts now days, they are a way to wrench on 6-point with less arc swing before repositioning, and therefore more access.
As an engineer, I'm more interested in 6-point on 6-point bolt vs 12-point on 12-point bolt, vs inside hex vs torx maybe? I know that's how tool trucks and shop sell them to you, but to me that screams wrong tool for the wrong fastener.
@@checksum00 That all sounds well and good on paper to engineers I'm sure, but the popularity of the traditional 12-point combination wrench is due to access. You need multiple angles of attack on a bolt head. 6-point box end may not slip, but once you turn it and can no longer re-position it, story is over there. 12-point, and spline here with some advantage it seems, offers you the access without 60° of arc needed between goes.
@@TorqueTestChannel oh yeah, totally get the use case here, and frankly as an amateur mechanic I mostly carry 12-point for that reason, and so I don't have to duplicate tools for the rare case I get 12-point nuts. I'm not use to those spline one, actually the first time I hear about them. I worked in aerospace and we mostly use socket head caps screws. Rule of thumb in the industry is that 6-point < 12-point < SHCS < torx and other proprietary screws format, but I never really saw backing data on that. That's why I think seeing a fights of format vs format using the right tool would be immensely interesting.
@@TorqueTestChannel true, but if the clearance is that limited, you're probably going to want a ratcheting wrench anyways.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade Needing to use 12-point for repositioning doesn't describe a very tight space. Swigging a 10" wrench 60 degrees takes up a lot of room. Of course if you want to get in a habit of breaking bolts free with a ratcheting wrench that's something you can do as well if you have a good warranty. We all have. But 12-point box end breaking bolts free still happens countless times a day around the shop so it's worth seeing this difference I feel.
The only scientific way to judge when they're going to slip is judging when you have to apply a lot of pressure and your knuckles are in the perfect position to lose the most amount of skin
ohhhhhh mannn did i get some memories
sad drops of blood mixed with grimy oil, dust, rust, and to make it better getting a cramp are my prefered ohh and foggy glasses now i could go on but its sciency enough for me
...and how low is the temperature 😉
Step right up to play Bust That Knuckle!🎉
I feels it, my cockiness ov strengths to my bleeding failures ov possible hope
As a person from the land of rusty cars and mountains of salt, I can confirm that 6point is the way to go when breaking loose stuck fasteners. The 12's are simply for turning them off in tight spaces... but only AFTER you've baptized them with fire, penetrant, and a solid 6point first 👍
Absolutely, living in the heart of the Adirondacks I know all too well what you're saying. As a rule a hot wrench and a six point is the way to go. I have a mini school bus with most everything so I use the right tool for whatever the job is.
Reefer tech/installer here. I need a good set of sockets for when I do service. Any recommendation for a good starter set?
@@ramirezmanuel117 tekton
An exorcism somewhere in between helps as well! I live in a place where they spray more salt than snow falls from the sky.
@@ramirezmanuel117 you're watching TTC, they have the answer to all tool questions.
"Assuming we're not incompetent"
I'm really impressed that you're keeping all options on the table and being objective with them. I always leave this one on the table as well.
I'd like to see the Tools themselves measured before testing. (like the nut measurements at 2:54 but for the inside of the tools. We might find that the widths directly relate to the slipping for 12-point and splines.
Even Order the same tool from 3 different vendors and find the average for each tool.
The 12-points were all over the place. GearWrench and PowerBuilt were low for 12 points, and I wonder if they make their parts wider, softer metal, or it was a fluke. Those companies could have lower tolerances or purposefully make wider tools for ease of use.
Also, he didn't mention doing it, but run each tool 3 times with 3 different Bolts to account for errors in the bolt rounding. (or hire AvE to machine rounded heads)
There's an important take away here! The way the fastener failed is important. When the 12pt strips, you can probably still get a 6pt in there to save the day. When the spline strips, you have a nice looking circle.
A nice machined circle! Lol
I've worked on a secondhand spreading truck (this is an NZ one so yeah, a lot more rust than a USA one). I came across a 13mm bolthead that was rusted and stripped to a near perfect circle. Just hammered on an 11mm spline socket (yes two rare things used - spline AND 11mm!!). Cracked that bolt right off.
So yes, splines are a very situation specific tool.
@@xap95 you underestimate the rust belt in the US. Up north the roads get salted all the time so if you dont wash your vehicles often enough they’ll literally fall apart from rust. I’ve seen frames that you could stick your finger through 80% of it because it was so rusted out. It was a miracle the thing drove to the shop.
@@bentrod3405 Yeah I've seen some online, I was merely offering an example (by "more rust than a USA one" i meant more rust than a USA *spreader truck*).
That's OK I have vice grips
In the rust belt, 12 pointers are useless in the automotive world on hex head fasteners.
12 points turn bolts into no points.
I thought this was a universal truth across the states. I remember being shocked that the local tool trucks even had 12 point anything on them. When asked they replied with, "New guys buy dumb shit."
Believe it or not there's still many non-believers that say an old fashioned 12-point box end is as good as any
@@TorqueTestChannel maybe they live in SoCal. Lol
I use a smaller 12pt and a good beater. Make new points when you can’t use the originals…. When a six pointer don’t work either.
As a now retired mechanic, I switched to 6-point sockets and wrenches within a year of starting my wrenching career. (Just 1 or 2 busted knuckles into a searing hot exhaust system get your attention quite quickly.) Snap-Off (and later MAC) were the only spline makers, so I happily kept my paychecks and did just fine with 6-pointers. One note: If you have a thin nut or bolt head, you can get a better grab on it if you grind the heel of the box end down a bit. It eliminates some of the rounded area (which helps you find/engage the bolt head) and lets the 6 flats of the wrench touch the base of the bolt. About half my wrenches were ground and 1/4 of my 1/2" drive sockets were done to get that extra grip. Great tests, guys. I like your vids.
I do this as well
Most wrenches sold are12pt box ends, but I want to get a few sets of metric in varying length and offset/drop at the ends in 6 point for helping get stuff
Bees don’t make mistakes.
as an mechanic I used 6 points to break stuff loose, and then have 12 point ratcheting wrenches for speed
12 point
Also known as the lowest RPM lathe.
Hahaha! So true!
I bought some in a kit but they're clearly marked as the "suicide kit".
That would be any cheap adjustable wrench
Hahaha the sad truth!
Isn't the swedish nut lathe much more efficient at a slightly lower RPM though?
I'd like to see this experiment with 10mm spanners. Not to see the result, just to see that 10mm exist.
Obviously only work on American cars. every 2nd bolt on real cars are 10mm ( Them there fight'n words... Joking but virtually true on every car built elsewhere in the world )
They do.
You get that one for free.
The time elves steal them as you film, or attempt to bring to your truck
They are with all the single laundry socks.
They're also among the most common size bolt head in cars so I'd actually be super interested...
6 Point is important if you're trying to restore something with very specific fasteners on it so you do the least amount of damage to them. Sometimes you just can't find replacement fasteners that match.
Correct me if I’m wrong, which I might be.. but bolts are not considered in “all authentic “ restorations” if you have one bad nut or fastener.. if your restoring a car.. would you not want to put an improved option on the car? I am not a mechanic, just a simple question for someone who wants to restore their 89 5.0.
@@Auto-Bots.Custom.Detailingit’s not always about improving, simply about not being able to get a new fastener. I stretched a flywheel bolt and found not a singe place that stocked them apart from where I bought the flywheel, having to ship it from an entirely different country. Not the same situation but fasteners can be really important to not damage.
Surely cheaper/easier/quicker to take the bolt and have a nut machined? Or even an off the shelf one? Must be a standard thread pitch and size I guess? @@fridtjofriibe5961
@@Auto-Bots.Custom.Detailingyou are not giving folks enough credit on complicating things. Ford Model A guys that want it "as Henry built it" will absolutely use as much old hardware as they can, and it is all pretty unique between the script F stamps and even shapes of the head and finishes. They will buy whole cars just to rob the bolts off.
Spline is great when you don’t need to remove what you’re installing, or when you plan on throwing away the hardware you’re removing, or you just don’t care what condition your bolt is gonna be in when you’re done torquing it.
12 point is good when your hardware is already kind of loose and you need that extra half swing on a tight spot. It also fits square hardware since 12 is divisible by 4.
6 point is the go-to for breaking stuff loose or applying a final torque. Just be sure your tolerance is close for a nice tight fit and grip.
And when all else fails, a Pittsburgh wrench welded to the nut will never slip 😂
12 doesn't fit square, 8 pt for that
Challenge excepted I'll weld it you turn it hahahahaha
what about rounded splines ?
@@sMASHsound Weld a nut on it, torch it until it gives up and runs away, pray, hire a hitman, etc. Lots of ways to get the job done.
14mm 6-pt on a 9/16" bolt head...close tolerance (slight friction fit if rusty or zinc plated), NO play. You'll probably shear off the head before anything else fails. (FYI, 9/16" ~14.2mm, so a 14 fits, just barely).
hi. i absolutely love the graphic in the corner visually displaying the differences between them; a lot of people test this sort of thing and throw a lot of numbers around but unless i really pay attention and write down all those numbers and compare them in my mind, it all kinda turns into number mumbo jumbo.
As a mechanic myself I always use 6 point for sockets, and 12 for wrenches. It seems to be the most versatile combination. But I might have to try out some splined wrenches, those look promising. Sometimes it's good to keep an odd inch socket laying around to beat on to a rusted mm head, or vise versa
This channel and project farm are by far the most informative and best testing channels I've ever seen. The work you and PF are doing for the world is far more than anyone would think. Thank you for taking the time and effort to make this content. God bless and thank you
Don't forget this guy. He doesn't have any recent videos but he has alot of videos that are fast moving, detailed, and extremely informative. An excellent speaker:
th-cam.com/video/PmvK7h7ZL2A/w-d-xo.html
This channel is good but I can't fucking stand Project Farm's voice.
Love Project Farm videos. Always search his videos to see if he's tested something I am thinking about buying.
True
Keith's compare with PF and his statement of your value to us all, is, in my opinion, spot on! Thank you!!! PS Would love to see you test Milwaukee wrenches and others suggested by other subscribers.
I learned many years ago working on the Harrier Jets. when you find a totally rounded bolt, you can pound on a spline that is slightly smaller and Bob's your uncle.
Bob is NOT my uncle.
That is why I have a spline set of wrenches and sockets (standard and metric)... for last resort... hammer it on a fastener that will not take a 6 or 12 point. You can keep dropping down a size until you've machined off the entire thing. LOL
Bob is my uncle-in-law. Trust me, you really don't want him to be *your* uncle.
@steveolive9991 yeah bud he is, but it's not your fault what he did to you, poor little feller.
I guess the upside of going to spline method vs extractor set is that a spline socket/wrench has a much better chance fitting in your position.
Plenty of situations where its rounded off but hammering on a thick extractor socket is also out of equation.
thanks for tip, I didn't even know what spline was/meant or what those funny looking sockets were about.
I am so sick of people insisting that six point sockets and wrenches will round a bolt faster than 12 point. It has never made any sense, but people insist on anecdote that it’s the case. Now I can show them this video. You guys are awesome.
This video taught me something….there are real extenders for wrenches 🤗 I’ve been using 2 wrench trick for many years, never even knew there was an actual wrench extender product.
But the two wrench puts more of a second pivot point then the extender which gives you more power baby
What's a two-wrench trick?
@@topchooo when you hook the round end of a wrench to the box end
2 wrenches? I've been using a steel pipe 😂
@@topchooo lol it's a life saver at times
I would’ve lost a bet on the spline wrench. Still not gonna buy them 😁 but that was a surprise.
Funk! My man. I'm in the same boat. They seem to chew up stuff too.
Idk, seems to me that they’d be useful for removing rusted on hardware. Wish I had some handy when I was tearing apart an old boat motor.
@@John_Doe_6996 That's why you have torches, penetrating fluid, extractor sockets and, in a pinch undersized 12 point sockets that get swing-pressed on
Splined is probably nice for those corroded fasteners 6 and 12 won't fit on and you know you should replace, but never do.
@@guillaumefraser3813 I don't think I have ever had any luck with penetrating oil on something that wouldn't already move. I call it put it off juice, cause I can spray a load on and put off that job till later while it "soaks".
I’ve used all the different types. All are good when used as they should be. A little trickI learned on bolts where the rust buildup has made the head larger is to take the 12 point or spline drive of the size up, wiggle it back and forth to knock some scale off then slam a 6 point on it and off she goes.
I fear this man
When I saw Tekton selling ratcheting 6point wrenches I pulled out my credit card instantly. Cannot overstate how many times they've come in handy
I was considering those when I got the SK X-frame wrenches. Would be nice to have offset or flex head 6 point ratcheting wrenches
Too bad the weak point of the Tektons is the ratcheting mechanism.
Same, when I went looking for some better ones to replace my crappy no-name amazon specials I started out with I ended up with those specifically for the six point. Shame they've discontinued the reversible ones with the offset head, at least for now due to apparent supply chain issue, hoping that's not permanent, but merely "we don't have a reasoanble ETA on more so we're not even going to list them right now" situation.
They do still offer six point flex heads, but me personally I just don't like how those feel if I really torque on something, which I know logically is probably dumb because if anything is gonna break it's gonna be the teeth before the pin lets go, but *shrugs* I just liked the solid offset heads better.
I have the extra long flexhead 6-point ratchet wrenches. They work well in the lot of circumstances, the six-point does Inspire confidence. The only catch is once in awhile they might snag up in a position where you don't have much room to swing it enough to get it off the fastener... not usually a big deal can usually jar it off with a hammer or something.
@@sixtygrit9944
so you don't recommend the Tekton ratchet wrenches? is there a better one you recommend?
I've always tried to purchase 6 point every time I can except for combination wrenches as they function so much better in my experience. Thank you for confirming my otherwise unsupported bias.
Same. 6 point have always worked best for me too.
Same. Other than a few instances, no need to ever have a 12pt socket. I never understood why people get them.
@@renalshomlmes338 12 point fasteners
Keep in mind guys, these tests were run on 40% rounded fasteners. If the hardware was new/less rounded, i expect the difference would be much smaller. And to top it off, the open end still got up to 60 lb ft. That's significant torque! If you have a fastener that needs 60+ lb ft of torque, and it's 40% rounded, you should be replacing said fastener, not worrying about what tool to use.
12 point spanner’s are much more useful overall especially in cramped areas but if something is real stuck.. you got to get that 6 point out.
The way my 7th grade shop teacher put it. Way back in 1972. " you should have both 6 and 12 point wrenches. The 12 point for where there's not much space, and 6 point for everything else. " He was right.
Spline tools work great for spline bolts and spline nuts. They're used a lot on aircraft. Of course 6 point tested well on a 6 point test set. It's generally best to match type to type.
Was about to say this myself. I feel the spline wrench used correctly on a spline bolt would blow the others away completely.
At the risk of sounding dumb I’m not a massive thinker about these things but I mean this definitely just seems like the same pattern wrench for the same pattern bolt seems to just common sense to be best the 6 on 6 gives less room to move or round off like a 12 on 12 or spline on spline
Using a tool that isn't designed for the bolt are usually less effective than a tool that is designed for the bolt.
@@killertruth186 in other news, the sky is blue.
@@branaden which was not the point of this video. Most nuts and bolts people encounter on a day-to-day basis are 6-point. Box end wrenches are easier to find as 12-point or spline, so which one should a person with limited funds get when 6-point box ends are few & far between when you need one in a pinch, can't get a 6-point to fit due to angles and space for a wrench, or are just starting to build your tool collection? This video gives us useful info to consider.
You guys keep this up and there will be nothing left for us to debate as we clean up on Friday afternoons! Thanks for the great work and excellent banter. "let's round this out". classic.
6 Point is better in almost all applications , it comes down to how much surface area you are contacting. On a hex nut , having six flat sides , and the wrench having six flat sides. It just makes more common sense to use that for grip.
Absolutely right. A 6-point wrench has the most surface-area contact, maximum contact area = best traction, all other things being equal.
12 point tends to be used (correctly) in tight spaces inside stuff that's going to be well maintained and not turn rusty. Inside engines, or in tight spots in aircraft construction where there won't be space to turn a whole flat at a time on a 6 point. Where they'll not be subject to corrosion, and good practise is applied i.e. fasteners are torqued to spec as designed 12 point is absolutely fine. They're crap if allowed to corrode, and they're not compatible with those types who just crank everything as tight as they feel like.
To this note shouldn't we test a 6, 12, & spline wrench/socket on their corresponding bolts?...surface area!
If the engineer did his job and gives you at least 90 deg to turn then it is, else ...
But in the end, to be frank, if the bolts are fastened to the spec, even a wonky open wrench does the job just fine.
If the wrench fails on tightening you are overdoing it.
I did a lot of fastener testing in previous jobs, you will find that using a new nut and bolt each time will produce quite different results even with the same setup, so to say any one spanner gives x amount of torque you'd want to test it 10 to 20 times and then take an average result for sure. The scatter between measurements can be huge, and really you should lubricate the threads to try to make it consistant.
torque specs are always given for clean dry bolts unless specifically noted, so if you want realistic, pragmatic results you would use clean dry threads when testing, not oiled.
@@alksmdlaks Interesting because every engine head bolt torque I've seen is spec'd wet.
@@kleetus92 Bolts inside an engine are usually lubricated
True if testing torque ability of different brand spanners but only thing being test is the ability of types 6 point 12 point and spline types to see which style is best. This isn't a torque test.
@@kenjett2434 no thats not what I meant, I meant you need to test each spanner with a nut/bolt several times and take an average, the scatter in results can be quite high even when using the same setup.
YES! Thank you! This should be of great help to the guys and gals getting into automotive, and do not have the experience yet to make the right choice on their first sets. Forums are FULL of "12 pts is just as good at 6pts!" comments, which lead many new DIY rust belt mechanics astray (me included a decade ago), having to buy a 2nd 6pt set after a dozen of rounded bolts with 12pts.
There's a reason spiral fluted extractors have six flutes. You'd think that would be a clue the first time you have to use one.
@@kd5nrh Yes, and how many 12-point spark plug sockets have you seen? The cool thing about a 30-year-old set of 12-point deep sockets that you might have sitting around your garage is this: the spark plug socket insulator/rubber has long since deteriorated, making it a fine 6-point deep socket for general use now ... and guess what can outperform the 12-point deep sockets next to it?!
I love your analysis and research. I found this info especially useful in showing the necessity for 6-point wrenches/sockets on rounded fasteners mainly on cars. Working in factories on brand new bolts and equipment 12-point is far more versatile and recommended by me (wrenches). While having 6-point sockets is ALWAYS the baseline due to no issues with angles.
I agree, you are a lot faster on assembly lines with 12-point sockets. I always tried to get my hands on them, since it made my job a lot easier.
Spline drive has aviation origins. Designed to get greater torque on a smaller head. I have 6 point tools, 12 point tools and spline. Use them appropriately. Don’t pick one type and try to use it on every fastener.
This test shows the importance of using a six point tool on a standard hex head (unless limited swing is required) & a 12 point or spline on a double hex head.
I anticipated this result, though had forgotten about spline spanners. I’ve had a few premium 12 sided sockets start slipping on bolts, switched to a mid-grade 6 point and eased the bolt out. A quality 6 point will always be my go-to unless there’s something preventing it.
Same experience for me, I work on classic cars, so regularly encounter stubborn nuts and bolts. Had my tools stolen and when I replaced, I purchased a full Craftsman set, lifetime warranty, and all sockets and ring spanners come in both 6pt & 12pt. Adequate quality tools and gives me a bigger selection, so I can pick the right tool for the job.
Yep. I’ve learned the hard way to only use 12 pt as a last resort.
This is why i ALWAYS buy and use 6 point sockets UNLESS I need the 12 point or spline for getting in low access areas (very rare) or I need something special like an external torx etc but that's a different situation altogether. Great video, I appreciate someone confirming what I have suspected on my own.. I always tell people this and they think I am overexaggerating but now I will reference this video as proof when talking about 12point vs 6 pint with my gearhead friends!
12 point have worst ewer. big shit, only used cheap tools.
In my experience, the spline wrenches are less than ideal in tight areas. Once they bite a fastener in a closed space it can be an ordeal to get them back off
my inexperienced opinion is that while they may be more effective and bite better, they also probably damage the bolt head
@@ciarangale4738 same here. i think its fine to use spline wrench when bolt/nut is damaged and you are replacing it anyways
@@KulegaRycha true enough. Its enough, though, that id avoid them unless i had the budget and space for a general set and a backup set of splines
@@ciarangale4738 My issue was looking at the newly round bolt head and wondering what to try next.
Spline wrenches should be used on splined fasteners.
I expected those results. In my line of work I have used all styles of wrenches. 6 points always did better, but one can’t always use them…that what vice grips are for :). Live confidently and peacefully
As an engineer I have to say 12 sided sockets are a necesity, it's quite often I have to undo bolts or nuts in positions where I can only make a 1/12 turn before the handle bumps into something else.
On things you engineered?? Quit now and save the world some pain!! lol j/k :).
I do not see another design here: There is a design, which basically is a 6 point but with rounded insides. The idea is, that the load is not on the high points of the hex, but on the flat sides of the nut.
I have a Metrinch socket set since the early 90's. Great set bar for one size: 9/16- 14mm. From brand new it slipped on both metric and imperial (perfect nuts and bolts). Just a fuck up in manufacturing the size- couldn't see any defect. Can attest to their strength and grip- never had any other size slip even on a fairly rounded wheel nut.
Yep, I had some wall drive sockets and metrinch spanner’s, they were really good on high torque, but clumsy to use.
Yep, absolute life savers when it comes to undo already rounded stuck nuts.
It's crazy that these seem to have completely vanished from the market although they are the best ones. Makes you wonder...
@@pourquoippaass4284 they haven't vanished. They've just become the Norm for the major tool industries. Look at any snap-on, Mac, or matco Adv sockets they all have a "kerf" or a little round spot on the points of the hex in the socket. This allows the point of the hardware to not contact and instead it grabs on the flats.. its just so common now they don't even advertise it
I agree with another poster here. The 12 pointers are useless in Minnesota! All they do it round the bolts off / break them. I replaced all my 12 point Sockets with 6 points!
exactly why im not wasting my time to watch this video, i already know the answer.
That’s why I buy 6 point everything, although I have had some luck with spline drive grabbing on some partially rounded bolts so I keep a set of them handy. Regular 12 point is just great at turning hexagons into circles
my favorite use is 6 points on easy to get to areas, 12 points on hard to get to and damaged hardware and splined on spline hardware. for the most part I only see spline bolts and nuts on airplanes so tip to people working towards your A&P, buy spline box end wrenches and sockets.
That's crazy, the difference between the open end and box end. Considering how much lower it can be on the open end, i'd love to see a whole bunch of brands compared on just open end performance, since at those levels a little may go a long way in performance difference. Some brands are supposed to be better designed as well, where as box ends are design wise pretty similar between wrenches.
We can do that, probably don't even need to start with rounded nuts to see the difference there either.
I’d be real interested in that kind of test with truck & Japanese brands. Truck brands are a known quantity, more or less, the Japanese brands less so.
I would like to see this as well. God knows every once in a while you get a fastener or if you work on hydraulics a lot. Where a open end is the only thing you can get on the fastener.
@@TorqueTestChannel a good idea would be to also to test Milwaukee open end wrenches with the extra grip point and flank drive and snap on open wrenches with their flank drive and see if it gets any closet to 6 point
@@nikking5277 And Proto's Anti-Slip Design wrenches (especially since you already have them).
I'm a diesel Mechanic and I use 6 point every time I can because in my experience it's the best to use. I've have 12 point start to strip nuts and bolts. I don't have any spline wrenches but I have a few spline sockets for certain things.
Agree. 6 point is always going to be preferable to 12 points any day. Do you ever use the 'wall drive' type of sockets or spanners?
Yeah, 6 point is my go to now
@@howardosborne8647 no I don't have any
Basically what ive learned just in personal times working on rusted classic cars and trucks. Is a six point will almost always be better getting stuck bolts loose or tightening without slipping. But just those certain occasions where you are in a tight spot and you dont have much movement in a wrench or ratchet. The 12 point has more chance of getting on the bolt than a 6
Measure the size of the tools between brands and you'll see a huge difference in tolerance to the fastener. That makes a huge difference in how much torque a tool hand handle. Some brands are so bad you can use a 1/2 on a 13mm or a 14 on a 9/16. Thanks for the comparison 👍
yup, never have I ever grabbed a slightly smaller socket and hammered it on to get a nice fit.
14mm plus a hammer to seat the tool works great to break damaged 9/16 free.
I do alot of work on my vehicles and I'm often times using a 1/2 for a 13mm bolt or nut. I have just assumed they are one in the same except one is metric and the other is SAE. Never really occurred to me that they should not work that way.
thats why i stack up on several wrenches of the same size and pick the one that fits best, nuts and bolts also have wild diferences
@@moviemaker2011z 1/2" is 12.7mm - definitely not the same, especially if you're dealing with supposed "precision" machining, but quite close
I have a minor issue with the unsupported end of the coupling nuts. An "empty" nut is almost never encountered in real life. I would have filled the end of the nut with a bolt or piece of all-thread to keep it from collapsing.
Fair enough, but that's not the end that was collapsing. The nut would compress length wise, and budge at the dyno side. Which was full of grade 8 thread.
The point wasn't to test maximum torque but simply to compare wrenches to one another. Since they compress the same way each time and they all slip at some point it doesn't matter.
Doesn't really matter considering that the only wrenches capable of doing that where the 6 point wrenches. It isn't really important how much torque you can put on something, nor is it the point of the video, it's a matter of 'how much more torque' which they've shown wonderfully here.
@@TorqueTestChannel I think what actually justifies your methodology, as FoxPro points out is that you are doing a comparative not absolute test. But the point about the open threads allowing distortion of the head is well taken, as anybody who's wrenched professionally for very long knows, the most difficult nut to remove is a flare nut for this very reason.
I am 79 and never was a "professional" mechanic. But, in my 20's and 30's, I built a lot of sports car race engines for rally cars. I started off with Western Auto (now defunct) tools, upgraded to Craftsman and finally on to Snap-On. Along the way I tried Gear Wrench and found little or no difference between Snap-On and Gear Wrench. A while back I bought some Tekton tools and was amazed at how good they were. So far, working on my own cars, I have not been able to break a Tekton wrench. And, believe me, I have tried. Of course, this is only my experience. I am quite sure that there will be others who will have a different story.
Finally, I hate spline wrenches as they always seem to round off the bolt/nut head. I do not want the expected headache that experience causes.
Right tool for the right job! When you have limited tools on hand, you limit your solutions to the problem. Splines may be used once the torque has been reduced by a six point, and where range of motion is limited. And always have the correct bolt replacement if you have worn the bolt/ nut from the removal process. Don’t skimp out on automobile parts because over torqued bolts may lead to failure on down the road. Understanding that the tools you have on hand may have been hardened steel removing softer steel bolts can cause stripping as you demonstrated can help newer viewers. This is a very good demonstration that you posted.
I quit having stripped fastener problems a while after I started replacing hardware when it had any sign of damage (instead of using again). I’ve had to build quite a hardware stock, but it’s great.
I realized a few years ago that screwdrivers wear out, and replacing them with quality prevents a lot of trouble too.
Was a little concerned when I was having difficulty finding a six-point for something I thought I needed it for, but demonstrating that a worn head can take about twice as much torque as I needed makes me feel better about it.
I have been a mechanic for 3 decades. 6 point box end wrenches have always done exactly what I needed them to do when I needed them to do it (loosen a stuck fastener). I use my12 pt wrenches for low torque and when the angle of the fastener + swing needed prevents the use of a 6 pt. I too always thought the spline tools were, as you put it - gimmicky, but I may buy some spline wrenches now based on these results because the best tool a mechanic has in his toolbox is the one that works when he needs it to work.
God, i love how manufacturers and consumers are finally moving away from the long overdue dumpsterfire that is phillips & flathead sockets.
Went to the hardware store the other day (first time in a long time) to buy some hefty replacement 12mm screws to secure a parasol on the porch. Almost all of them were some form of hex which put a smile on my face. As i got to work installing them, it turns out the wood was very stubborn but so was i. Excessive amounts of torque later (which would have shredded philips & flats 20 times over), the 12mm screwhead flew off like a bullet and ripped all the skin off one of my knuckles. I've never been happier to get such an injury.
Absolutely! I've seen 8hrs + spent in a heavy truck shop just getting the 10 stainless Phillips screws out of the shifter boot in the cab on an otherwise 4 hr transmission removal and clutch replacement! Couldn't heat em because of plastic, Couldn't drill too stringy an overheat plastic, no impact drivers, floor too springy, using valve lapping compound on the driver bit is the most effective by far. I detest flat (straight blade) and have loudly called Mr Phillips everything not in the dictionary and suggested where he could store his fasteners! Best tool for that I always carry in my pocket is a Rigid 6" pipe wrench with the jaw rivets flattened so it lays flat enough to grip screw heads.
Wanna have a laugh at my expense? My country still doesn't sell square, hex(internal and external), torx screws for general use.
Square is always for decking screws
Hex is always 8mm or thicker
Torx is always on a stainless steel bolt.
I'd kill for a packet of 30mm long 8 gauge square head screws
Hex screws are a gift from god
hex were always ones for heavier jobs. That being said it's pretty impossible if you want the screwhead to be flat and compact ( electronics, glasses small stuff ).
@@jakubrogacz6829 Nonsense. If you look at just about any flatheads or phillips, they all require depth for tools to slot into.
I've had 12-point box-ends bind like that spline.
I've always thought splines look funny; couldn't see how they'd be good, but now I want a set. The versatility of a 12-point but with more bite strength.
"Round out our data." Augh the pun! 🤣
so what your saying is that adding more facets, making it more like a circle, the more it will tend to slip. mind blown.
this channel is great, love anything that reveals ubiquitous marketing bs today.
Love this video. You turned my whole world upside down. I have been using 12 point wrench for the last 20 years on all those difficult bolts thinking is the best. I need a moment to recover. hehehe
Joe? Larry? Bob? Is that you? Trust me, you are not alone, Brian! I know several 12-point mechanics.
I’ve been working on cars for a year n always thought 12 points were the weakest jus based on lack of surface area.
Rip to all the rounded bolts
Lol. You must be crazy. 6 point always felt the best and pretty much never slip. 12 points are completely different.
Can you test anti slip open end wrench designs like snap on flank drive and wrights wright grip?
Flank drive and flank drive plus.
You got it
@@TorqueTestChannel if do this test, could you please include the "WaveDrive Pro" design by capri... aka infar wrenches
@@TorqueTestChannel maybe test different adjustable wrenches? Like the US made Proto and rigid(made by the same company I believe), a couple of the Japanese ones like the Nepros and lobster brand, and maybe the Spanish made channel lock, those are supposed to be pretty good crescent wrenches. Also maybe throw in some cheap Chinese ones for fun.
@@BryceKimball7.3 also include raptor adjustable wrench. They are sold at furgeson supply stores.
Thank you. I'm only a year into my industrial mechanic career and have basic sockets. I'm getting to the point where I'm going to invest in more tools and will be buying a 6pt set before 12 or spline.
You will find with enough experience that you're going to need both 6 & 12 point sockets & combo wrenches depending on what you're working on.
The @AVE channel has a bit about this: Look at the depth of the tall sockets, cheapo brands the bolt will go the entire length of the socket.
Better brands typically have more shallow "depths". Allowing you to better hand start the bolt when putting it back in.
I would love to see you re-test the Knipex pliers wrench against an open end wrench and adjustable wrench like this. I have the 12" and 16" XL Knipex pliers wrenches and I use them ALL the time at work on heavy equipment, but when I get asked to borrow a pipe wrench or adjustable, all my friends/coworkers turn their nose up at it when I offer it to them instead. The beauty of them is that they don't "spread", because the harder you push, the harder they squeeze the flats of the fastener. I can't remember a time when they slipped on me, i'm always careful how I position them
The "Bus Grease Monkey" and his son, "Indiana Diesel" both use and endorse the Knipex pliers. I may have to pick up a set.
„Dad/guy who taught me did not use them and they are from another country so they must be shit“ - but don‘t be sad, few ppl in Germany use Vise-Grips for the same reason, that might be because we have great Knipex Pliers but you still have to hold them shut.
I can do 50nm of torque in the right direction with the tinniest 125mm knipex wrench pliers and even the 150mm still fits on my pocket for every day carry.
And I own the 250mm/12" ever since I saw a youtuber use it years ago. They work amazingly well without slipping or damage anything.
And if you pull your nose up for knipex you're an absolute fool, who need vice-grips of your knipex cobra's actually grip instead of slide over something round.
Knipex is THE brand for pliers if you ask me.
@@0b3rz0nK I like vice-grips for removing damaged hardware but that's about all they're good for, either creating or removing damaged hardware.
@@0b3rz0nK the pressure keeps the knipex closed by itself tho...
Proof that the specific geometry is really important. 6 vs 6 and 12 vs 12 vary greatly across brands. As a rust belt resident, I only use 12pt on stuff that's new, or needs a specific 12pt. 6pt and spline (hammered on) are the rule of the day.
I only have anecdotal evidence of what I use and when, and sadly sometime 12 point is all I have available. But I personally disagreed when I saw AvE’s video back when he posted it. I always try to buy 6 point sockets and wrenches. Imo they also help when a fastener is severely deformed or degraded and you can hammer them on to reform the metal into a slightly smaller size. Was happy to see some data confirming my limited and uncontrolled experience. Thank you for sharing!
I picked up a socket set recently and made sure to get 6-points because, as you mentioned, there is no real alignment issue with a ratchet so why give up the extra contact area unless you are dealing with 12-point bolts at some point.
Being a mechanic, there are some VERY tight spaces you get in where 12 point is needed. Also, many socket ratchets are in the 4-3 degrees movement for the same reason, tight spaces.
yeah i dont get why ratcheting wrenches are almost universally made with 12 point ends.. i live in eastern canada 5 year old vehicles have rusted bolt that need sockets hammered onto them... would appreciate some 6 point ratchetting wrenches that done cost their weight in lumber
@@brucemadden1626 If you have a high tooth count ratchet for tight spaces then a 12 point socket isn't really giving you any extra benefit except maybe taking a second or two less to align. In something like a box end it is a different story because there is only so far you can actually adjust your position.
I still think that for your average person who just wants a reliable socket set for around the house a 6-point is probably going to serve them better.
@@brucemadden1626 my friend in tech school had Mac fine toothed 3/8 ratchet that was a beast for stuck fasteners in hard to reach places even with a cheater bar on it never broke
@@AndrewBrowner wow, I just looked to see what options are out there for 6 sided ratcheting box wrenches and saw that Tekton makes some and usually their stuff is reasonable, but wow. I'll keep my harbor freight 12 point ratcheting wrenches, and my 6 sided socket set. If it's ever too stripped for a wrench or too tight for a socket, I'll grab my locking crescent wrench and pray for mercy
Thank you for this video! As someone who has bought and worked on used motorcycles; it is useful to know that the 6pt holds up the best, as there tends to be a lot of questionable bolts on used motorcycles.
This matches my experience with sockets exactly. I avoid 12 points due to how easily they can strip a bolt, user error or not. They really only excel in rare situations you cant position your 6 point in a turnable way.
I would just about swear by my Proto wrenches. I've had my full set for about 3 years now and I've relegated all of my other non-ratcheting wrenches to an old tool box to gather dust. You should do a complete test from brand to brand. I'd be very curious to see the differences. Too many are piss poor excuses for a good tool.
Agreed. I have the flex head ratcheting spline wrenches up to 3/4" and they're excellent, especially in a tight space. Wouldn't trade them for anything. Got the regular 12pt combo up to 1 5/8" for double-wrenching and using as strike wrenches lol
About 10 years ago, I found a couple well used PROTO wrenches that had been lost/left by somebody on the side of the road and threw them in my box--they were metric as is my vehicle so I figured they'd be useful some day.....I used them a couple times and it was pretty apparent that they were 'different' in a good way.
I've been a 'car guy' since the 1970's and an A&P since 1983 so I have some knowledge of tools.....A set of the PROTO metric wrenches is in my box today along with MAC and SnapOff and Harbour Freight and a few others....lol.
Whatever works is best...
That's a big lump of money.
There are 2 more styles i would like to see tested. The first is the "surface drive". Those dont grip on the corner but rather somewhere in the middle of the flat.
I also heard the statement that the metrinch design (tool that is usable on both metric and imperial sizes), can outperform the other designs. Thanks.
When you say "surface drive" I assume that is the one with the slightly convex (bowed inward) "flat" in the spanner's ring?
"Surface Drive" was originally called "Flank Drive" by Snap-On when they invented it years ago. It has rounded points at the corners of the spanner or socket opening so that the torque is applied to the fastener a little way in from the corners of the nut or bolt and therefore is less likely to round off the fastener. It also works better on slightly rounded fasteners. This is widely copied by other manufacturers now the patent has expired. Another benefit is that they tend to be a "sloppy fit" on the nut/bolt so you can get away with using a metric socket/spanner on an slightly larger inch fastener or vice versa when the sizes are close, e.g. 1/2"-13mm, 14mm-9/16", 5/8"-16mm, 17mm-11/16" etc. I think that Metrinch are using this characteristic to offer a reduced number of sockets or spanners in a set, as they definitely are "surface drive".
It would seem that some if not all the sockets and spanners tested here have "surface drive" openings but I can't be sure.
Comment please Torque Test Channel.
One more thing, the spline drive spanners look impressive, but if you are using a spanner it probably means that you can't get a socket in there because access is tight. If the spline drive bites into the nut you won't be able to remove it to swing it 30 degrees and refit it.
If it's a spline drive socket and it is firmly gripping the nut you will have a struggle to get it out of the socket after you have taken the nut off the bolt.
@@bimble7240 Pretty much any socket you can buy here in Norway is the flank drive style with rounded corners. Not seen a flat face on a socket in years.
I've had a set of metwrench for longer than I can remember. Bought them at Wal-Mart for IDK 25 dollars when i needed to fix something one day and did not have any tools with me. They have proven themselves time and time again. Their grip is amazing even tho they feel sloppy on everything. Unless it's completely rounded or rusted away. I have never broken one and I've used a cheater bar many many times on them. The boxed end wrenches are good as well. Double wrenched or a cheater pipe on them lots of times as well. The open ends are nearly useless as they require about ⅜ of a turn before grabbing the bolt / nut. But take warning, buy pretty much any other brand of ratchets to go with these great sockets and throw the ones that come in the set into the scrap pile as soon as you open the box. Their ratchets are a waste of metal
@@bimble7240 that is a piece of history I didn't know. The design I had in mind was this:
images.app.goo.gl/zjgxkAeLB9MkoWis8
Is it the same thing as a 'standard' flank drive? The reason I ask is that I live in Europe and heard about metrinch about 8 years ago (was on a training course from work). Surface drive I read about only 3 to 4 years ago when looking trough a catalogue for a replacement mini socket set.
Since I work is in the electrical side of the business, I am not that familiar or updated with al the designs that are available.
Thanks in advance.
Great video. After using 12 point everything for 20 years of DIY repairs and maintenance, I am a firm believer in the 6 pt stuff now that I do it professionally part-time. A tip when using a 6 pt socket and breaker bar is to rotate the socket 90 degrees either way on the anvil to give you the same angles as 12 point would.
Having ratcheting wrenches also helps a ton over standard wrenches for this compared to 12pt. I got mine from tekton as it is hard to find a 6pt flex head. For bigger stuff I use the quinn nano sockets with a 22 mm gear wrench flex head wrench.
My Craftsman spline wrenches are the same design as the one you got and I can attest that they grip really nice on most fasteners. Interestingly, the spline are also advertised as universal, which makes me cringe too! I’m curious how universal and what the limits are for different fastener head designs they claim spline works on. It would be a tedious episode to make, but really fascinating! Perhaps one day!
A SPLINE WRENCH IS MADE FOR SPLINE HEADED BOLTS
They work on 4, 6, and 12 point as well as square, Etorx, and of course are the only one out there that work properly on spline heads, they're not as good as dedicated versions of each but they will grip and turn, they can also work on some thumb nuts or wing nuts
@@paulhailey2537 That really doesnt matter at all. Remember, Anything is a Hammer if you use it wrong enough except in this case you cant use it wrong. A Spline Wrench will work just fine on any bolt head.
I'm going to ask something that has boggled me for years.
Why are you, specifically, a brony? For real, not "it's a great show" excuses.
@@Sharpless2 and will work as well as any other wrench of the same sizing as a hammer too!!!
Just from personal experience working in a auto service center,
I always recommend a 6 sided socket or wrench for bolts you remove often like a oil plug. 12 point or spline wrenches and sockets will chew that bolt up over time.
In Europe there is no 6 points wrench sets at all on Amazon...
@@hlq2action310 thats odd
Can't stand that. Usually only 13mm Chyrsler group ones i've seen damaged.
All my friends give me shit for preferring 6 point wrenches.
They say "12 point is less likely to strip" and I've always called bullshit on that.
So this video felt so damn gratifying.
This is excellent testing. I've kinda always felt this, namely from experience and this makes me feel better about my choice to go with 6 point for my ratcheting spanners. They've proven absolutely excellent leagues better than all the 12 point's I'd used and had before them.
I’ve used surface drive sockets for years now and they can work better than six point sockets .. because they apply force to the flats of the fixings not the points
Would love to see a test on them… your channel is brilliant please keep it up 👍
As an aviation mechanic we have mostly 12 point bolt heads, a few spline head bolts, and even fewer 6 point nuts and bolt heads. I would be really intestate in seeing the numbers of a hex head bolt with a6 point wrench vs a spline head bolt and a spine wrench vs 12 on 12. Without rounding any corners i would find those numbers interesting
Yep. Exactly what I was thinking.
Seeing how surprised you were by what you thought was a gimmick, I’d love to see some other tools along those lines like the universal/gator grip sockets, bionic wrench, craftsman ReFlex adjustables, adjustable box wrenches, any of the wide variety of attempts at making a ratcheting open end etc. in general whether these apparent gimmicks are actually worth anything or not. I love collecting them and appreciate all the wacky designs companies come up with, and some actually are quite useful like a gator grip on eye bolts.
Also would like to see a variety of rounded/broken bolt extractor brands and designs tested, that’s a particularly unclear topic as to which ones work better than others
Gator grip sockets are a godsend on wingnuts too, not just eyebolts. I have one specifically for installing and removing cables on difficult to access aircraft batteries. I might use it occasionally on something like a battery tiedown nut just so I don't have to go back and get another socket, but wingnuts are where it outperforms every other tool commercially available.
A great test although I hesitate using spline drive as it seems to always mar the nut or bolt.
An open end shoot out would be good but compared to other open end types. One thing that I have noticed is when it comes to the actual spanner dimension and finish applied this affects the potential of the spanner to apply maximum torque. Some will have a heaver chrome or nickel finish and these seem to wear a lot faster. I have a Sidchrome set purchased in the 80's and they were so tight when new they needed to be tapped onto some nuts. They have held up extremely well over the years.
Seems to me that the spline drive might be good if its a bit stuck and your planning on replacing the bolt or nut. I haven't actually used a spline drive, so I could be wrong.
Typically if a bolt or nut is already partially rounded and you're fighting to get it out, you're already planning to replace it, so whatever bites best is best! Just my thoughts as a rust heap wrencher.
@@802Garage in that case, the answer is a proper extractor. Then take that breaker bar and beat whatever a$$hat decided you can't have a 15mm or 18mm extractor in the set.
@@kd5nrh That's AN answer, but it's also more time consuming and usually means going in your special tools drawer and then finding the best size and if you have room to hammer it on etc. So if you can get it with a wrench that bites first then. 👌 I hear you though.
@@802Garage special tools drawer? I drive a 20 year old Focus: those are in my roadside repair bag.
Great video, proves that we need every tool available at our disposal just in case. Some are better at degrees of throw, some at worn fasteners, some at brute strength for super tight fasteners.
Thanks!
Yeah, but outside of making stuff harder to steal by fully rounding the fasteners, I just don't have a use for 12 point sockets.
@@kd5nrh 12 points is great for torx on cars.
My uncle is a mechanic and when spline was coming out I asked him about it. He said they worked great. Seemed odd to me that they would. Later on we were working on a truck and we used spline. It impressed me.
Talked to a maintenance guy also that uses spline and he said. It was good also.
May end up replacing my 12 point with spline. Don't really see the reason for 12 points anymore.
My proto set is bar none, the absolute most I've ever blown on hand tools but they're damn nice wrenches and seem to hold tight where my old craftsman fails. Excellent and relevant video guys, thank you
I have a an early 1900s 1 inch drive ratchet and socket set I love. I was always curious if snap on got its beginnings with Proto. I have heard that but never was sure
Brand makes a huge difference with their respective production quality. Actually had a Snapon 14mm 6 point socket round transmission bolts because of the poor fit. But I'd be dammed if a Pittsburgh finished the remaining bolts without a problem. I could tell a big difference as the Pittsburgh had a smaller tolerance. People like to joke about Harbor Fraught tools but they've really stepped up their game. I've put some of their stuff through the wringer as a mobile tech and it's still in my box working fine. Where I work now provides SnapOn and I've watched some spectacular tool carnage on things my personal stuff would've never failed on.
Did Harbor Freight step up their Game or did China 🤔 In my opinion, Snap On uses soft steel where it will bend or give and not easily break. Whilst China uses steel that will break or round off fasteners more so.
harbor freight and even Pittsburg (the brand) don't really make tools, they buy excess or appearance defect tools, meaning that their quality is not consistent, but if you can top grade them they can be great.
Those tools at HF are all "less then perfect" from actual brands. So some are actually decent. As said, he needs to measure the wrenches and compare identical sizes. Some 12s have tighter points then some 6s.
i am a millwright and i use hf wrenches and sockets more often than any other brand. i always choose impact grade over chrome and 6 pt over 12 pt. rarely do i strip a bolt head or nut.
@@vidard9863 You believe they are buying others "appearance defect tools" then reforging them just to get their branding on them? And, you think this process would be cheaper?
In all my 35+ yrs working as a mechanic and bodyman here in the mid-southern portion of the rust belt (north enough to get the northern mix road salt, but south enough to rarely get it.) I only have a couple 6point box end wrenches, most(99.8%) are the 12point combos. Have a pretty selection of 12point sockets, chrome and impact. Over the decades, I've bought what I needed, when I needed it. If I had to barrow it twice, I bought my own. I have a 1/2" 6point combo wrench because, that's the 1st size what VW/ Porsche exhaust nuts dissolve too. A little farther north they drop too12mm, but usually at that point, you're replacing the stud, or the whole damn head.
Awesome video! Spline often gets a bad rap - my theory is that it is because it is confused with "universal" drive. The spline design allows for a wider tolerance range than typical 12pt, which has tempted many manufacturers to release so-called "universal" wrenches and sockets that supposedly fit SAE and metric fasteners. What that actually means is that they use a spline drive design that "splits the difference" between SAE and Metric. It will inherently be a sloppy fit on some sizes and a tight fit on others - and hence suck. Using a properly-sized spline drive on the other hand, really ought to be better - and it's fantastic to have some evidence to point to showing that is the case.
The powerbuilt sockets he tested were "universal"
It's because they tear up fasteners and have to be hammered off them more often than not.
Fair, but that doesn't prove things either way - maybe the size of fastener just happened to fit that brand's socket reasonably well.
I was expecting 6 point to win, but spline definitely surprised me. Thanks for the data!
A comprehensive and masterful example of practical tool designs. I’ll be going with a spline and hex set of sockets and wrenches when I get paid. Thanks again
I would be interested in what condition the spline wrenches leave the head in. I have always felt that they get good grip simply because they dig into the head.
I love my spline ratchet wrenches. They are my go to. However, If it looks like trouble I always go for 6 point. this test didn't surprise me only gave actual data to confirm it. Thanks for the video.
Same. I got some craftsman black yrs ago.. so far, so good
I usually ONLY use a 12 point wrench on a 12 point bolt. Otherwise, no. No.. I'm impressed with the spline ends, I may add a set of those to my wrench set. 6 points are fantastic but if you're in a tight spot and can't get a socket in, it's tough to use. Great work!
It is interesting seeing how when most of the designs cammed out is after you stop turning and reposition. Difference in getting something stationary moving versus keeping something already moving on motion
The coefficient of kinetic friction is always less than the coefficient of static friction. Physics.
That is why a car which is skidding will continue to slide till it hits something or you get the wheels turning to match the direction of skid. After that you can start to re-establish control.
@@20chocsaday yes, precisely
@@KyleRepinski That's what I told my driving examiner but he insisted on which circumstances might cause it.
(Then he failed me).
Some bicycle axle nuts are now a 12-point nut, which looks awesome (very round looking) and grabs the wrench with 12 points. It's more decorative than for strength, but it is strange there was never really a movement to introduce 12-point nut and bolt heads.
torx fasteners are the more commonly used upgrade to hex hardware. has been used in european vehicles for longer but is becoming more common in domestics.
I have rounded out spline sockets
I've also been skeptical of spline drive wrenches. I've seen specialty fasteners that are spline drive. The socket was only an 1/8 thick at the narrowest point but it could take ~17,000 ft lbs on about a 4" nut. Other sockets that size are 1/4-3/8 thick at the narrowest point.
I'm curious how much the spline drive would mangle the head at a given torque. Also some impact sockets have "off corner loading" designs that are supposed to reduce rounding. They might perform better.
Great stuff, TTC
Seconded would libe a video on this
That's my main problem with using spline: They have a tendency, especially on softer stuff, to cause problems.
Granted my experience isn't the most common, but aircraft can use stuff like aluminum bolts. Using spline might destroy them when I need them to go back on-and same with the fittings. Besides, they're supposed to be torqued to a relatively low number (3/4" high-pressure fittings get, say, 70 ft/lbs max torque) often, so open-ended wrenches are typically more than enough.
I've never used them because they just look like they might mangle a good fastener.
The rounded outer corner was something that started appearing in the 90's if I remember correctly, and I first saw it on six side box end wrenches. I was pretty skeptical at the time as it looked like yet another gimmick but it turned out to actually work as intended. Last I took a walk down the isles of wrenches in a hardware store it seemed almost every brand was using that design. A six sided socket with sharp corners didn't seem to exist on the shelves.
Now I've never used a spline drive socket or wrench though. I can't help but thinking they have to chew up the nut pretty badly though.
Ive always wondered if there was a difference between a open end wrench one way, vs the other way. Same goes for ajustable wrenchs. I always have the feeling that one way has less chance to slip than the other.
Could you verify that?🙂
there definitely is with locking pliers or an adjustable wrench and even pipe wrenches one way clamps down on the fastner the other way the jaws spread if that makes sense
Brands make a big difference also.Generic brands the teeth round relatively easy compared to actual name brands
I've heard that before about adjustable wrenches. I can't see it being different on an open end wrench unless it's a special one with teeth that grip one way (I've seen that on Capri Tools) or those self ratcheting ones with little rubber pads in the jaws (Mastercraft and Gearwrench have those)
I'd be interested to see the test on adjustables though
Funk FPV did a short video about it. Check him out. Might have to fish through some of his stuff to find it.
With adjustable wrenches you need to orientate them so the load is applied as low as possible on the moving jaw
I just weld a larger nut on stripped or broken heads. Let it cool down a good bit and off or out it comes. Cost is pennies another Way is drill a hole in flat or angle stock, place over stripped bolt head and weld, this allows you to break it loose but many times can't make full turn and is my least favorite trick. Hope this helps some people 👍
You should try to measure the tolerances on the wrenches to see if there are differences based on the wrench types within the same brand.
We plan to for open ends (requested in comments here) but you can't measure spline and 12-point you can but it's not as comparable to 6-point. More like between 12-points. Because of where you need to measure it.
Thank you. Came here to say this.
@@TorqueTestChannel I'm just a 'youtube expert' but I think the right measurement tool for this would be gauge pins. I think measuring the largest cylinder that fits in the wrench at all ends will give you a very good idea of the tolerance, rather than attempting to use calipers to do it.
@@TorqueTestChannel Test angular deviation at a fixed distance from the nut. That will give you apples to apples tolerance. Sorta. Maybe lemons to limes comparison haha.
@@TorqueTestChannel Thats rather unfortunate, i feel like more quality control goes into the splined tools just based on how much better they look. Im willing to bet that plays a major part in the differences you saw.
I love it! Great science.
Snap on makes a 6-pt with rounded corners that they say is best. It kind of combines the spline concept with a standard 6-pt. I would love to see an extended review.
I have seen a brand that works by using the flats, not the points. Have not seen them slip ( twist sideways much as all spanners do ). Have not seen that brand for a long time ( over 20 years ), shame as I lost too many of them. ( probably in someone else's toolbox after they tried them )
@@alanhilder1883 Probably Metrinch you are thinking of.
@@geoffmartin5041 Seeing it written, yes it was.
Snap-On got a patent on "flank drive" in 1965, which added the rounded rather than triangular broach. When it was exclusive, nothing could come even close to a Snap On 6 point, and part of what lead them to be able to dominate the pro market in those days. I think it expired after 20 years, so 1985 ish, and everybody copied the profile pretty quickly, part of what lead them to lose their domination since. They added a "flank drive plus" feature in 1990, which used similar concept on the open side, and which, despite seeming subtle, does significantly increase the torque before rounding.
Wera have these "hex plus" Allen keys that are similar. Corners are round and the flats do all the work, made the apprentice buy it as his first set
I am a industrial mechanic and I personally use 12pt in my chrome sockets, 6 on wrenches and impact. I use the 12pt on alot of the blower motors I tend to work on that all have 12pt bolts on them and I like the adjustability of them in confined spaces paired with a high tooth count socket wrench. Now I only have up to 1" 12pt sockets. Everything above that going into 1 1/8th and up sockets or wrenches are all 6 point. If you are rounding over a 1" bolt head then you've got some problems other than your wrenches lol. Just my two cents. Great video tho, great data. 👍
My hands are pulsating and hurting from all the memories I've destroyed myself with tools, and when they turned against me. Everytime I see a slip, I can feel the painful sensation hahah oh god
No joke that sound made me flinch every time!
I need that wrench extension in my life. How did I not know this existed?
This is what we use: amzn.to/38P2mzo
I had no idea this was a thing.
There nice I picked one up off the truck about a month ago they make a couple different size and I manage to use it Atleast a few times a week well worth it
The absolute best is the Mueller-Kueps Wrench Extender (three sizes)
but they're so easy to make!
th-cam.com/video/6zjQSTbLsJY/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/AFU73w1GOvw/w-d-xo.html
or the ultimate lazy;
flatten a piece of 3' round pipe till your wrench just fits in it. Done.
(that's the one on the front of the alignment rack)
I've always used the interlocking wrenches method.
Speaking as a professional auto tech, here's my breakdown of real-world tool usage, which pretty much mirrors the video's findings:
Spline is best for ratcheting wrenches and ratchet sockets because it'll grip almost anything and hold onto fasteners well enough to make actuating ratchet mechanisms easier, whereas other geometries are more prone to slipping off. It may or may not be ideal for breaking stuck hardware loose, however, unless the fastener is rounded too much for a 6-point to work effectively on it.
6-point/single-hex is the best option for raw torque, assuming the fastener has clean enough contact surfaces to work. I will frequently use a 6-point wrench to break a tight fastener loose and then switch to a spline ratchet if I can't get a socket/ratchet onto it. If I _can_ get a ratchet and socket onto it and it's too rounded for a 6 to grab and too tight to pop loose with spline, it gets a nut remover socket instead.
12-point/double-hex is more suited toward moderate torque or double-hex bolts/nuts. I usually only use those in ratchet/socket as my fixed wrenches are combination-6 and ratcheting wrenches are either 6 or spline. The only fasteners I encounter in the wild with any amount of regularity on passenger vehicles are CV axle nuts.
I have all three geometries in all sizes from 5.5 to 24mm, but 6-points are definitely the go-to workhorse geometry out in the real world on real cars/trucks with real rust/grime/monkey-pawprints on real fasteners.
I always thought Gearwrench was a moderately high end brand, but every time I see these tests they tell me otherwise. On the other hand, I have been burned by one of the newer Craftsman tools and decided they were crap, but when I see them tested on TH-cam they usually do relatively well. This is good stuff to know, and I'll have to keep it in mind in the future.
My buddy swears by GearWrench but they have disappointed me many times. Craftsman is also not up to professional standards.
If you want reliable performance, you will have to spend the money on a high end tool.
Where I live, most of us laugh at Gearwrench because we've all been burned. They're box ended designs seemed to have more play in them than other brands (although Craftsmen these days now falls in that category). If I need some ok tools that I don't need absolute precision on I just get Harbor Freight's Pittsburgh line. If a socket or wrench snaps from that set, I don't get as upset because expectations are already low. Lol. I have old Craftsman and Snap On, peppered with DeWalt sockets for other things.
@@dchawk81 I understand the point of having higher priorities and the excessive cost of tools off the trucks.
That being said, if you are doing mechanic work in confined areas and every little bit matters, I still would buy a set of the SnapOn Flank Drive Plus combo wrenches (used if need be). I have put mine to the test and have never been disappointed. The open end has teeth that grip the bolt or nut like no other wrench I've seen. The box end is slim, fits just about anywhere and grips as well as any 12pt can. I'd say they are well worth the investment.
For sockets, ratchets, extensions and other common tools , much of the Harbor Freight stuff does the job and at a price that is a lot easier to justify.
In my industrial field, we all use splines. It helps with rusty or product covered nuts. You don’t have to clean the nuts of as much.
My girlfriend gets mad at me if I don't clean the nuts off nice and thoroughly.
the 6-point is by far the best in a new fastener. 12-point was created because the industry isn't standardized and bolts and nuts of multiple, often lower qualities are manufactured, and also often time and usage have taken its toll. The spline is a further try in that direction. To undo a damaged nut/bolt, just heat it until red, and make a smaller 12-point fit and if that doesn't work, melt it. In surface areas to remove a damaged screw use mig on a nut and if that doesn't work, drill it and a helli coil is the only decent solution.
The way it was described to me when I was in automotive school was that 6-point has more surface contact than a 12-point and will therefor apply more of your force to the surface of the nut, vs a 12-point will have that same pressure hitting less of the nut, and will therefor be more likely to slip.
Similar to if you are able to grip something with your whole hand vs just a small portion of your hand, the one with more contact will offer a better grip.
That is also why the open end wrench is not as good, because that open end accounts for 1/3rd of the surface contact that is automatically just missing, so it is a handicap overall.
The appeal of the open end wrench and the 12-point wrench is that is that the open end can slip onto any hexagonal nut without needing access to the end to slip over it, and the 12-point has more angles of use, where the 6 point has exactly half as many angles of use.
They DO have their necessary uses.
Can you test how much ft/lb it takes to break the ratchet end of several wrenches like gear wrench, snap on, proto ect?
Project farm does that exact thing. I believe he did ratchets already too.
from what i can remember of Uncle Bumblefuck (AvE) testing those, the ratchet isn't the weak link
A 3/4" Wright broke with two grown men standing on a 6' pipe. The Wright dealer put a kit in it, and it's still fine.
Also saw a 4' Ridged pipe wrench fail, twice. Once with the tow motor forks operating it, and once with the chains from a 15 ton overhead crane around the handle.
@@randymagnum143 I saw a ridged pipe wrench with a big ass pipe getting pushed down with a t300 bobcat to the point the bobcat was lifting off the ground
Here you go. Enjoy. th-cam.com/video/JZMuDGN2njY/w-d-xo.html
I'm sure most of us knew the 6-point would do wonderful. But the splined Box end really surprised me!
With ratchets getting 90 or more clicks per revolution, there really is no need for 12 points.
...except on 12pt bolts.
There are so, so, so many situations you can't get a ratchet and socket on and you can only get a wrench on it. And ratcheting wrenches are great too, but again, often don't fit. To be fair I work on planes, which generally don't have so many issues with really stuck fasteners like cars do, and the engines of which (at least turbines) almost exclusively use 12pts. But even working on cars, it's still a good tool to have. The extra degrees can make the difference between the job being a total pain in the ass and the job just not getting done.
I'm a diesel mechanic and I encounter a lot of 12 point bolts unfortunately. Especially in areas that like to rust...
I think any mechanic that knows their stuff, already knew the six point would easily win.
I very rarely use 12 point, unless it's all I have.
Make it a walldrive six point, and you'd get even more torque down.
6 point leave no room for the metal to give. It all has to shred at once.
12 points leave lots of room for the metal to bend.
If cost weren't an issue, all fasteners would be 12 point. A 12 point fastener with a 12 point socket would have the most torque holding capacity. There is a reason these are used in mission critical applications like con rods, axle bolts, head bolts, and occasionally flywheels.
If cost weren't an issue, all fasteners would be 12 point. A 12 point fastener with a 12 point socket would have the most torque holding capacity. There is a reason these are used in mission critical applications like con rods, axle bolts, head bolts, and occasionally flywheels.