If you never know what wrong feels like you'll never know what right feels like. I recommend starting with everything in the middle then do a short ride. Then turn your compression all the way out (soft) and do a short ride. Then turn your compression all the way in (hard) and do a short ride. Once you are done with compression, set it back in the middle and do the same with rebound. Now you'll start to have a better feel for what each adjustment does and what too stiff, too soft, too much rebound and too little rebound feels like. Now set everything back to the middle and use your new found understanding to make small corrections to tweak the suspension to your liking.
A good way to test your rebound after your compression is where you like it. Find a section of trail or track with consecutive bumps think whoops or chop. Pay attention as you enter if the first two or three bumps. If the first couple feel great but by the third or fourth bump the suspension feels harsh and continues until your thought the section. Your suspension is packing or staying too low in the stroke. Speed up your rebound. If you go through and by the 2nd pr 3rd bump your bike is bucking sideways and or back and forth your rebound is too fast. I have found this test works best when your are tuning your suspension and you feel you just about have it where you want it. Rebound can be difficult at times to seprate from compression settings. I have found this test helpful to read what the rebound is doing.
I’ve found especially in sand whoops you get a lot more bucking from having the rebound set too slow (hard) especially if compression is set too soft. I’ve found at least in sand having the Compression both high and low speed set as stiff as you can stand and the rebound very fast like 19-20 clicks out allows you to ride as fast as you dare without losing control especially in the whoops.
@@Itsjustmelol.. I like using a heavier spring with very little spring preload, (especially for the forks), with light compression and heavier rebound to control the spring. I like it when the springs do more work than the compression damping, and I also love the sand whoops. :)
I have used your videos to check my sag, change out my springs and adjust my dampening. The changes have made a huge difference, it feels like a different bike, in a really good way. Thanks go to you and your colleagues. Cheers guys.
Great video. This is the first time I've heard anyone explain that if you go up a few sizes on spring rate, you'll need to revalve. I learned that the hard way, but it makes sense... a stiffer spring will make the wheel rebound a lot faster if you haven't changed the clickers. If you find your rebound is turned almost all the way in to counter that, you're not allowing the rebound stack to work because all the resistance is on the needle port inside the shock. Turning the rebound in all the way eventually affects the compression side too, and what you have is a dead feeling shock. I'm too cheap to send my suspension out so I learned how to revalve myself from online forums. It's been about 10 years; I've probably saved thousands by now.
Naw, just get stiffer springs with very little spring preload, light on the compression, (the heaver spring will hold the bike up), and heavy on the rebound, (to control the stiffer spring). That will make the suspension supple on the small bumps, and still be able to take hard hits.
@@thepatternforms859 Damping slows the movement, it's velocity sensitive not position sensitive. Think of trying to run in waist high water or the damper on an air conditioner vent. Open is no damping, closed is full damping. Don't ever say dampening unless you are getting something wet. Every fork or shock without any damping would bottom out super easy even with the super stiff springs. True damping is the valve stack, the clickers are a small bypass that changes how much force it takes to open the valve stack initially. If your valving is way off, clickers will not help. Springs are position sensitive, damping is velocity sensitive and friction is bad. These are the basics but don't think suspension as some dark art where only a few know what's going on. The problem is misinformation is propagated by people that don't know what they are talking about, creating a bunch of myths. Like not enough rebound damping makes the bike kick. I hope that helps. You asked an honest question.
@@thepatternforms859 When he says to soften or stiffen the compression or rebound, he means the compression damping or rebound damping. Suspension works by having a spring, and then an oil damping system to slow down how fast the spring compresses and rebounds, and to stop the spring just bouncing back and forth over and over. Minor suspension tuning is done by tweaking the damping rates (compression and rebound clickers), and the preload. Major suspension tuning is done by changing the actual spring (and valving to match).
Great explanation. We don't get enough of these videos. People in the lower classes or just starting out have no idea how to make their suspension work.
Last Saturday went awesome. I was having a lot of doubts about my bike and what to do in the future with it..... I fell in love with it once again because I went back to stock settings and started from there again. Turns out I was going the wrong way with some settings. Going back to basics made miracles for me.
Maybe this tip is more for valving but OIL WEIGHT is key for a better suspension feel. I just opened my Racing suspension shop and thanks to great people out there that trust in me my suspension it's working good on the track. Nice video ROCKY MOUNTAIN GUYS very complete and informative. Cheers from Baja Mexico
For me, the lighter the oil the better like 5wt, (does not fade as much). Then I like a heavy spring with light compression damping and a small amount of spring preload, (forks). You will need stiffer rebound after that, but you should find it supple on small stuff and braking bumps, and still able to handle the big hits. With my way, the compression damping does not hold the front up higher, the stiffer spring does. I like the springs to do most of the compression work. Now it is your turn to tell me how to port a 2-stroke engine, because that is what I do for a living. :) Enjoy your business while we still can. Doug in Michigan.
@@EarthSurferUSA Porting a 2 stroke engine is an art. know the STA values is the first thing before make any kind of modification in the ports. Cheers bro! Keep up with your business!
Here's a really simple way to approach suspension that anyone can wrap their head around: find a track or section of trail that is representative of the type of riding you do the most. Record your base settings, go out for a short ride (5 min.) Then, try adjusting just one setting. Go a couple of clicks in the direction you think you need so you're sure to notice the difference. Now, go back out and ride that same section again. Better, or worse? If it's worse, try going in the other direction from your base setting. If it's better, try going further. Most importantly, take notes at each step (yes actually write them down). If you're a racer, get someone to time you, but be careful not to put too much weight into timing vs feel as there are other things that can affect your speed, like time of day and how long you've been riding. You'll start to really map out by feel what each setting is doing and one by one you'll be getting them dialed in. There are some more complex interactions that can occur, like when your compression and rebound are both slow and you start packing your suspension down with successive hits, so this method isn't foolproof but it's a heckuva lot better than doing nothing with your clickers because you don't feel like you know enough.
Very nice as always Chase. One thing we used to do when my son raced AX was we would take video (like we saw of you) and we would watch it at the track, make adjustments that both he andI could see. That YZF is a sweet ride!
I went from riding a 1986 kx125. too a 2019 yz450f. my old kx had some horrible old out dated suspension that I couldn’t do much with. after getting on my yzf the suspension feels amazing but have been told I still need to set it up it feels very hard / stiff this videos has helped me a lot I am nearly 16 stone so may need to do more then just setting but is a great video helped my a lot I thought it was good before but have it so much closers to my needs thanks
My racetech guy taught me to set it all in the middle, and then adjust one setting four clicks in one direction. If it feels better, do four more. If it feels worse back it up two clicks and of course go the other direction if it still feels worse at two. Then do the same for each. I just hate doing a lap or two and having to ride back to the truck to adjust. I need to get myself a stylin fanny pack I can put a flathead and some sockets in so I can just pull over on the track and do it there. Those clickers on the bottom of the forks are always fun to get to when adjusting on your own. All that being said, I'm getting back into riding and find that my comfort level and skill is changing faster than I can adjust my suspension, so I need to chill until I start to flatten out in a comfortable spot.
Loving these videos, just got a 2017 KTM 450. Never adjusted the suspension in a bike before, had no clue about sag. Not my first bike, just never messed with it.
Holy hell, I have never touched my suspension until this video, this showed me how to fix a couple problems with my suspension that I didn’t know how to deal with before. Thank you so much:)
I have always just worked with how a bike is set up for my trail riding. I recently rebuilt& resprung my kx 250 for my weight and need to set sag which led me to want to have it all set up. After 30 years of trails and now living in the desert....
I took 20 years off trail riding, (I used to race MX also), to find set up is different today, and I don't think very functional. The seat height is usually taller than in the 80's and 90's, and the bars are rotated forward like a 1999 Freestyle set up, with level levers. The rider position has gone forward a bit, and to compensate they use 105mm or more rear suspension sag. I hated the set up, lowered my suspension by .75", my seat by 1" (2019 YZ250 2-stroke, a very tall bike today), rotated my bars and levers back to 1988ish (when we thought better IMO), and set my rear sag at 98mm to start (100mm if I did not lower the suspension), and boom, all the sudden I can feel the corners again if there is no berm. I think we are entering an era of dysfunction, and MX is not alone. I think it is every industry. It is called "progress" in our schools today.
I’m not a seasoned rider or anything, but just wondering. Wouldn’t the same principles apply for trails? Or does the slower pace make a large difference?
@@redone8341 being that most of the dirt bike market is geared towards motocross most bikes come with springs and valving meant to help soak up hard hits and make it more controllable. Riding slower and on bumpy rocky less groomed terrain you won't get the full advantage of the suspension and it will more than likely feel rough. Dirtbikes targeted to trail riding like the dr, wr, or klx to name a few tend to be a bit softer. With how stiff I was running my suspension down in Florida doing enduro/hare scramble style riding on smoother faster terrain with some good bumps n jumps, it's way too stiff for the slower rocky terrain out here in Colorado and needs to be softened up a bit more as my springs alone are kicking the bike out on loose rocks, gravel, and silt on bedrock like crazy.
Thank you very much for this info. It explains alot of the mystery about suspension problems. This helps me understand why the bike doesn't feel right.
Hmmm, you might want to get the oil changed too. The shock body is usually plated or hard anodized, but if the inside of the forks are not hard anodized, the oil will be mud.
I understand how and why the clickers do to the oil flow to controls dampening. I just have a hard time knowing what changes to make to effect feel on bike. This video does pretty good to try and explain the on bike feel compared to clicks and how to tune things out that you dont want.
Yeah, I need this explained to me like I am five years old. I am drowning in a sea of vocabulary and complex examples about what certain riders may or may not do.
A little know fact. I was a suspension development ride back in the late 80s a d early 90s. We would work to get good working suspension on models a NS then the next year when the new bikes came out they didn’t feel the same. What we found out was the bike companies would use a different oil in the suspension then we used to get the settings. It was not the premium oil we used to set it up. Most manufacturers have their own suspension setup place in the USA. Call them. They will often sell you the good stuff they used in setting up the suspension in the first place. It can make a lot of difference. It can make certain forks feel so much better. Also a good fork seal lubricant like what Ohlins sells can make your fork eat little bumps much better. Simmons developed it years ago then Ohlins purchased the rights to it. Great stuff.
The suspension fluid my 2019 2-stroke YZ250 uses is a 0 weight oil, and I would not want to use anything else for the factory valving, (OK, I am mixing some Maxima 3W with it (maybe 15% Maxima), to get more control of the shock rebound with a stiff spring in it, which I don't think will compromise compression or induce fading at all.). I don't think it was Ohlins who came out with that anti-stiction grease for fork and shock seals. I think it was Simmons and called "SF3 grease". Race Tech now sells it or something similar. I like to cut strip of open face foam to the correct length to fit under the fork wiper and completely around the upper chrome tube, (3.1416 "Pi" times the diameter of the tube, will get the exact length), spear that Simmons/Race tech grease on it, and stuff it between the fork wiper and the seal. I have never had a blown fork seal doing that, and the grease is always there to fight stiction.
Thank-you for actually explaining how to properly set up your suspension. Most if not all other videos I have seen use jargon I don't understand. I am a newish rider and alot of this stuff is still over my head. I am debating on respringing my bike. This has helped. Thankyou
Thank you for this video. The way you explained things now make much more sense to me. Now I'm going out riding today and doing some testing. I know its going to take me all day but that's OK at least I'll be riding.
You've got nothing to lose! Make changes and see how it feels. Glad you liked the video and it helped you out. Have fun out there and watch out for that Covid-19! - Chase
@@rmatvmc Hey thanks again for the video you made on suspension setup . Took my time throughout half the the day writing everything down each time I went out . Unfortunately I'm going to have to do it all over again. I'm going to have to buy a heavier spring for the rear. Another thing I tried messing with is something you you might want to make a video on is handlebar position / bar mounts flipping them around definitely makes a difference in how your body position and that in turn seemed to me to make a difference in how I wanted my suspension setup . Or maybe I'm completely wrong. Then again a video like that might make some peoples heads explode Cruz that just throws one more thing into the mix of already so many variables it could get more confusing . P.S. You got a kick ass job RM ATV MC hiring for any product testers? :-) :-)
First video on compression and rebound etc I've seen that makes sense to me, it explained everything at the right level, I dont ride much off road but I'm wiser now, thank you, this and the sag video by your colleague are now my go to list if I ever need to play with any adjustments I might have with my new suspension 😀
That's awesome! I'm glad it helped you out! We actually just filmed a few more general suspension videos and plan to do more tech videos like this one! - Chase
Thanks been riding all my life now I'm 52 . After watching your explanation I'm going to have a play around with me suspension on my Wr 450 better late then never..
Being a novice rider I actually found that a softer spring rate vs my weight improved the handling of the bike and made it turn much more quickly and helped it get traction as opposed to a stiffer spring (that was more suited to my actual weight).
I suppose it also highly depends on the kind of riding you do, softer springs are more well suited for less extreme riding where as stiffer springs will feel better with harder impacts.
I did about 50-60 MX races around and before that time in 1994. I came close, but I never finished last. David Bailey finished last in his first race, so I like to say I used to be better than David Bailey. :)
If you are at a bumpy track where you can see the roost well, you can actually see who has a better rear shock set up. The more the roost is continuous, (on the gas over the bumps), the better the rear wheel is hooking up. The more the roost is "off and on", the more time the wheel is spinning in the air. Again, something I learned from Paul Thede's "suspension bible", from Race Tech.
According to Paul Thede's Race Tech Suspension Bible", (probably the best book about motorcycle suspension on the planet), rebound is very easy to set and can be done pretty well by just pushing on the seat and watching/feeling it rise. First you have to make sure the linkage is working well with no binding or added friction, or the test will not work. All you do is have the bike on the ground, front wheel straight, and push down on the seat and let it rise back up with you hand just feeling it. If it is too slow, it will rise and stop at the top. If it is too fast, it will rise past top, come back down a little and do that 2 or 3 ti8mes (oscillating at the top of it's stroke). it it is good, it will rise a tad past the top, and come back down only once and stop. Do that well with the correct spring rate, and all you have to worry about is compression.
Time! I have never planned to do suspension settings setup work instead of just riding. Like if I have half a day do be a dirt bike rider I’m going to ride like the weekend warrior I am. But I want nothing else than a perfectly tuned bike! Aah, help! 😂🤘🏻
Great info., but the reason I’m posting is to commend your sales staff for their excellent customer service. There was a mix up on one of my orders and they made it disappear. RM has been our {2 sons and I) source of parts 95% of the time since your beginning. 👍👍👍👍👍
That's awesome to hear, Power Wagon. We really appreciate you and your son's business and thank you for taking the time to write that. We try our best to have the best customer service in the industry. Have a good week!-Chase
Very well made detailed video, though my situation is a little different. I'm learning this for street riding on my DRZ400SM. I'm planning on riding with a passenger and to compensate for the extra weight, should I stiffen up the high and low speed compression? Also should I just stiffen the rear or the front too? Thanks.
i weigh about 165 and ride a 18 wr450f. this vid helped a lot i think im gonna go with softer spring rate and revalve bc i could never get it to feel right
165 on a 450 is probably a tad light for stock springs. Measure the sag correctly and set it (typ 100-105mm for the rear with you in riding gear on the bike). Now the "bike sag" (just the bike weight), should be 25mm + or - 10mm. If you need a softer spring, you will have more bike sag and visa versa.
Bought Type 3 Gold Valves from Race Tech at full price then saw them $40 cheaper on Rocky Mountain.... $60 cheaper if you include free shipping over $75...
Probably not a bad approach ... at least for a few seasons, assuming you are of moderate weight for your bike. By then you'll know if you have any complaints/ issues. Also, by then I'd think you best change the fork oil and then compensate/adjust for any wear that will have naturally taken place over time and usage.
@@delinquense what would you suggest for someone who weighs 280 lb? My Raptor wants to kick me off with the rebound it seems like when I hit a bump hard the Springs compress and when it bounces back it wants to throw me off. I was thinking to make it softer somehow so the suspension doesn't bounce back and throw me off. I don't want my rear suspension to shoot me in the air I hurt my wrist real bad last time trying not to fly forward
@@thethiefonthecross9092 I'm no suspension genius and there is a lot to consider, your weight being very important ofmcourse-. It's one of those things I tend not to touch very often. I can tell you that when I got my new 2018 Beta 300RR Race, it didn't seem like it was absorbing on the impact. Problem was I hadn't owned a dirt bike for literally 3 decades so I thought that was normal for new suspension. It came with the upgraded Sachs forks. Then I got a 2021 Beta 390RR Race with KYBs and it seems so much better out of the box. All this to say ... I would recommend that you spend a few minutes to understand how your suspension works and then just start playing with it. Don't be afraid to adjust things ... you wont hurt anything. Make sure you write down all of your settings on the clickers. Eventually you will get the responsiveness, comfort and feel that you desire. It's a lot of trial and error. Don't take it in to the shop or you will be beholden to them whenever you have an issue.
If you’re sweating and exhausted, sliding around and not able to keep up when everyone else deems to be doing fine it’s your suspension setup and body position. Put everything to the middle and ride for 20 minutes, Dont make changes to the bike for at least that time. Put your bike on a center stand and stand on the pegs in a neutral position without holding the bars. Rest your hands on the bars with no pressure on your legs or hands. That’s your primary body position. If this takes ANY effort stand up a bit straighter and move your weight forward until you could stand there all day. That’s your basic position. Your thigh muscles are the largest in your body and use the most energy. Squatting on the bike screws up your balance, reaction time and exhausts you. Being relaxed improves balance, reaction time and gives you a basic position to return to for straights and recovery. Once you have this, suspension setup starts to make sense. When you ride for the first time in a day, Dont make changes for 30 minutes! The bike ALWAYS feels shit and wired until you’re warmed up and relaxed! Easy rules: Remember to BREATH. holding your breath starves your muscles and reduces concentration. RELAX - find that neutral riding position. When I’m tired and racing hard I have a mantra that I repeat over and over, “ RELAX….BREATH….RELAX…BREATH” Hey, man it works for me 👍
I love all the adjustment there is for suspension today, can be adjust to work for just about anybody. It is a lot more inclusive than the seat heights today, that pretty much exclude anybody under 5'11" tall from good cornering. :) Lower your bike. You will corner better than the guy fiddling with his suspension. :)
Very nice video. I think we need a video that tells what suspension changes to make for bad bike behavior. Or which problems are caused by bad suspension setup. My bike maybe misbehaving and I think oh that is just my make and model of bike. But it actually maybe a suspension setup problem. Like the bike won't stay in a rut. Headshake. Wash outs. Oversteer. Understeer.
Great video track surface ie wet/dry soft/hard is also a massive player in set up i've always found that getting plenty of laps in and experimenting with settings you get a feel for what works best under different conditions :D
I totally agree. Like i mentioned, there are soooo many things/adjustments that can be made for suspension and so many variables. Hopefully this video just gives some good basic info to get people going in the right direction. Thanks for watching!-Chase
My only comment is that rear end squat under acceleration, and compression on smaller landings and rollers are typically "low speed" shock shaft velocities that Low Speed Compression will resolve. High Speed Compression is typically for square edged bumps and hard landings. That said, adjustments made to LSC will effect HSC as well.
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If your getting head shake at high speeds you can also tighten your steering stem nut a tad. Made a Hugh difference on my Yamaha, I can relax more at speed with out running a steering damper
I bet I just got the YZ450FX after owning a 2017 Honda 450RX which I also loved at the time, The New Yamaha beats it hands down,, Yamaha hit the ball out of the park this time, Have you played with the ignition settings, I down loaded the torque setting with an FMF Pipe amazing,,, The bottom end is off the chart
Tips that I've learned If you adjust the compression count how many turns and do half of that for the rebound in the same direction. Another thing is that if you adjust the rebound by itself then do the same with compression. And try to use the whole fork or shock because it will feel better
Right you are my friend. I think I mentioned that in the video but can't remember, it's been a while haha. But I always say for every two clicks on compression, as a good rule of thumb, go one click the same direction on rebound. Thanks for watching.-Chase
My suspension was squishy. I tightened the compression to limit the stroke from bottoming out. It also bucked so I thought to open the rebound. I thought softer rebound, not as stiff, won't buck. That actually made it rebound faster because I opened it, letting it return faster. Now I'll probably tighten my rebound as well so it doesn't rebound as fast.
Yes, a good rule of thumb is that for every two clicks stiffer on compression, go 1 click slower (in) on rebound. A stiff fork or shock with a fast rebound may not settle well. Try it out and let us know how it goes.-Chase
Also if your suspension is not serviced and is leaking oil you will always be chasing your tail. The right amount of oil is key to how the suspension works. If you have a leaking shock or forks it will never feel right.
Great video guys!!👍🏼 I hope the people watching this video realize it's a monster difference when you set your bike up for body size and riding ability. Great video for any novice rider who is afraid to touch their suspension and was nervous to go to a dealership or go to a suspension shop to talk suspension because they didn't know what to really ask or how to describe their riding ability or areas that they need help with on what the bike is doing. This video will help them feel more comfortable on understanding what their suspension is doing and how they can tune it on motocross tracks / woods single track. "The Ohio Gang"..Northwoods Concepts 🤙🏼
Glad you liked the video, stacy beach! Just like you said, this video was to help those that maybe don't understand the concepts and how to set their bike up all that well. Appreciate the feedback. Have fun out there!-Chase
If rebound is too fast on the forks, the fork might feel like it's deflecting rather than absorbing the bumps and chop, climbing out of ruts, or it bounces up after jump landings. For the shock, if it feels like the rear end is kicking after absorbing a bump and maybe you've already gone stiffer on compression, or if under braking and decel, the shock feels like it lifts or dances around is another sign to slow it down.-Chase
Would a kick from rebound too fast be seen on a single bump? I’ve seen when rebound is too slow the suspension becomes very harsh but only in a series of tightly spaced trail whoops or braking bumps. I’m thinking about going faster on rebound and softer on compression so I can use my travel more fully and be very plush while still able to hit whoops at the same speed. Would this work?
Good video to reference. I think a lot of us feel that setting suspension is like solving a rubik cube. You can get close but never seem to accomplish the whole puzzle.
But you can get very close! You have to commit to working on it for a whole day. I was at a sand track a few days ago and I must have changed my clicker settings 10-15 times til I found something I liked. Most riders just don't take the time and effort to really "test" and find a good setting.-Chase
That’s exactly what I was feeling, going down hills it felt like my arms were gonna get rattle right off the bars lol I kept going softer and softer making the problem worse. Stiffen up those forks everywhere I ride is hard pack, rocks and sand
I’m on an 06 crf450x which I know isn’t the ideal bike for log hopping, hill climbs and boulder fields. Seems like dialing in the suspension is even more important since it’s setup for more desert riding.
On the shock,rebound has more to do with compression because of the free bleed bypassing the shim stack.If you get too slow on rebound the shock will feel very harsh.
I got a 2017 300xc with aer i have the compression turned all the way out to make it plush im in 1st to 2nd gear nasty roots and rocks . I see nothing wrong with it turned all the way out and i really like the plush ride now what are your opionions on this setting im 250lb air side 145-155 psi .
Seth, if it feels good to you and you're happy with it, then that's all you need. Now if you took that same setting out to the desert and was hitting some high speed bumps and jumps, it most likely would be too soft. Suspension is all about what makes you feel comfortable. No two people are the same.-Chase
For slow stuff it’s probably fine but I’m only 152lbs on a 2018 450SXF that weighs only 217lbs on a full tank and ride fast rough sand and even at 160psi if I went out more than 16 clicks on the compression the front fork would dive way too deep into the stroke and would unload the rear suspension causing the rear of the bike to swap side to side no matter what I did to the rear suspension setup. I fixed it by lowering the pressure (I did it a few psi at a time). I ended up at 126psi but kept turning the compression in until it felt perfect. I ended up at 7 clicks out. It actually feels a lot less harsh in the hands this way versus 158-160 and 17-19 clicks out and it’s so much more stable in the whoops no matter how fast I go.
Excellent video, I will watch several more times, with the bike, But I have a question...Why would you ever want/need a slow rebound.....I would think you always want a quick return to the ground (or neutral pozish)...?
More than 3 or 4 clicks on compression 90% of the time you will have to adjust rebound to match. Softer compression will probably need faster rebound since there is more movement down, forks will need to come up faster to keep wheel in contact with ground.
Your are right. A good rule of thumb is for every two clicks on compression, you go 1 click on rebound, whichever direction it is you go. Thanks for watching-Chase
When my rebound was too soft/fast on forks, when I brakes hard to a stop, the last bit of stopping distance would feel like I ran over a stuffed animal. Sometimes I would get the same squishy sideways feel in a corner.
Heard a good trick. Put a zip tie on the fork slider to see how far you fork is travelling. If not using almost the whole fork stroke. Set up to stiff.
Awesome video very helpful I was nervous to adjust my clickers but I finally did because I would get head shake but I went 2 clicks out on rebound and it helped s bit but still get s little bit every now and then do you have somewhere we can send a video and you can help us out a bit ?
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If you raise your front end 2 mm it will help big time with head shake,,, 2mm is about two penny's stacked trust me it works, if it still shakes after that go 1 more mm
That completely depends on your skill, weight, speed etc. I agree that bikes come with great stock suspension these days, but that doesn't mean it can't be better. TJ Bronson from 891 Suspension and I did a video talking exactly about this. It will be dropping soon! - Chase
What would you recommend if you hit a hole in a track and get Head shake, bike feels like it dives but doesn’t come back up so my guess was rebound but hasn’t changed much?
I have another DR 650 coming and I am 180 lbs. going to use it as a ADV bike, but want to do a fare bit of off road but on the slower side as I am 71yr. Should I be looking at changing springs or just going to a heaver fork oil. I want to be able to go over logs if they are in my way. The last time I did any real of road was over 40 yr ago, and it was on a DR 600 kick start only and it got me through any thing I wanted, but I was never in to racing just enjoying the back woods. and going where there is no trail, a lot of the time.
If the one fork has compression setting and the other has rebound but they are two different entities. How do they work in unison? Always baffled me. Thanks
1:15 "Alright, first things first", then he skipped the first things that are suppose to be first. 1) Make sure you have the proper spring rates for your weight and the rear sag set correctly, (front to if you can). 2) Make sure your shock linkage is maintained well. Get rid of any friction in the suspension system (front and back), that is not suppose to be there. 3) Then play with the clickers. There is one fantastic book I know about that if you read and understand it, you may be sharp enough to start a suspension company and do well. Paul Thede's Race Tech Suspension Bible. Did you with a well lubed and properly working linkage, you can actually set your rebound dampening by pushing on the seat and watching how it rebounds? Compression is way more complicated because of all the different bumps, and all rebound has to do is control the spring rebound, and help keep the tire on the ground for traction.
Nice video. I have one question, I just purchased a brand new Yamaha YZ250 out of the box and wanted to dry test the shock by pushing the seat down by hand while adjusting the low speed compression clicker. I screwed it to both min and max settings but it always feels the same when pushing the seat by hand. Is it normal or does my new shock have an issue? The rebound setting works fine and can be clearly determined by pushing the seat down and let it rebound. Only the compression feels always the same. Please let me know if it is normal? Do you feel a difference between min and max lowspeed compression setting with this dry test by hand or not?
I think you may be overthinking it just a little too much. I wouldn't try to analyze my suspension just pushing down on the seat. I've tried this before when adjusting rebound and unless you spend a lot of time with suspension, it's pretty hard to really feel the difference in your clickers just pushing down on the seat. My guess is your suspension works just fine and you need to go ride on it and feel the difference while riding.-Chase
@@rmatvmc Thanks for your reply. So you don't feel any difference on your bike's lowspeed compression as well by pushing the seat by hand? Then I think everything is alright with my suspension, at least it is new.
I think you're suspension is perfectly fine. Go ride it and make sure you're at your factory recommended base settings and make adjustments from there. Let me know how it goes-Chase
I was told that you will ride way faster by getting suspension set up properly, rather than hopping up your engine. I want to get my suspension redone, not sure if I want to tackle it myself or send it somewhere
I agree 100%. You have to be at a very high level before the power of a bike is the problem. I don't know any riders that want more power from a 450. Having a bike that handles well is the most important part. - Chase
I’m still confused but I’ll come back and watch this more thoroughly. I bought a single track bike (ktm 300 Xc-w) and I’m wondering if it’s ok to use on a mx track. It’s set up for Erzberg type riding. I’m a novice.
As a novice rider you should be just fine. I'm guessing your suspension is set up pretty soft for that type of riding. As you get faster and start doing bigger jumps, you'll most likely need to stiffin it up to handle the faster speeds, bigger bumps, and landings. - Chase
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If you never know what wrong feels like you'll never know what right feels like. I recommend starting with everything in the middle then do a short ride. Then turn your compression all the way out (soft) and do a short ride. Then turn your compression all the way in (hard) and do a short ride. Once you are done with compression, set it back in the middle and do the same with rebound. Now you'll start to have a better feel for what each adjustment does and what too stiff, too soft, too much rebound and too little rebound feels like. Now set everything back to the middle and use your new found understanding to make small corrections to tweak the suspension to your liking.
Thank you for the input!
Nice I'm going to try this thanks.
Do this every time. It's the best way.
This is absolutely gold advice. Thanks man.
Great idea
A good way to test your rebound after your compression is where you like it. Find a section of trail or track with consecutive bumps think whoops or chop. Pay attention as you enter if the first two or three bumps. If the first couple feel great but by the third or fourth bump the suspension feels harsh and continues until your thought the section. Your suspension is packing or staying too low in the stroke. Speed up your rebound. If you go through and by the 2nd pr 3rd bump your bike is bucking sideways and or back and forth your rebound is too fast. I have found this test works best when your are tuning your suspension and you feel you just about have it where you want it. Rebound can be difficult at times to seprate from compression settings. I have found this test helpful to read what the rebound is doing.
Thanks for the pro tip, Danny!
Great tip, we do the same when setting up the buggy. Set up on different sections to find a good median for the course
I’ve found especially in sand whoops you get a lot more bucking from having the rebound set too slow (hard) especially if compression is set too soft. I’ve found at least in sand having the Compression both high and low speed set as stiff as you can stand and the rebound very fast like 19-20 clicks out allows you to ride as fast as you dare without losing control especially in the whoops.
I was actually looking up videos for this exact issue on big rollers
@@Itsjustmelol.. I like using a heavier spring with very little spring preload, (especially for the forks), with light compression and heavier rebound to control the spring. I like it when the springs do more work than the compression damping, and I also love the sand whoops. :)
I have used your videos to check my sag, change out my springs and adjust my dampening.
The changes have made a huge difference, it feels like a different bike, in a really good way.
Thanks go to you and your colleagues.
Cheers guys.
That's awesome! We love to hear stories like yours. Glad the tips have helped you out! - Chase
Great video. This is the first time I've heard anyone explain that if you go up a few sizes on spring rate, you'll need to revalve. I learned that the hard way, but it makes sense... a stiffer spring will make the wheel rebound a lot faster if you haven't changed the clickers. If you find your rebound is turned almost all the way in to counter that, you're not allowing the rebound stack to work because all the resistance is on the needle port inside the shock. Turning the rebound in all the way eventually affects the compression side too, and what you have is a dead feeling shock. I'm too cheap to send my suspension out so I learned how to revalve myself from online forums. It's been about 10 years; I've probably saved thousands by now.
That's awesome! I hope to one day be able to re-valve my own suspension as well. Glad you liked the video and thanks for watching! - Chase
Suspension tuning is about 10x more confusing than an engine rebuild.
It can be! But start with the basics.
Building engines is simple
Naw, just get stiffer springs with very little spring preload, light on the compression, (the heaver spring will hold the bike up), and heavy on the rebound, (to control the stiffer spring). That will make the suspension supple on the small bumps, and still be able to take hard hits.
@@thepatternforms859 Damping slows the movement, it's velocity sensitive not position sensitive. Think of trying to run in waist high water or the damper on an air conditioner vent. Open is no damping, closed is full damping. Don't ever say dampening unless you are getting something wet. Every fork or shock without any damping would bottom out super easy even with the super stiff springs. True damping is the valve stack, the clickers are a small bypass that changes how much force it takes to open the valve stack initially. If your valving is way off, clickers will not help. Springs are position sensitive, damping is velocity sensitive and friction is bad. These are the basics but don't think suspension as some dark art where only a few know what's going on. The problem is misinformation is propagated by people that don't know what they are talking about, creating a bunch of myths. Like not enough rebound damping makes the bike kick. I hope that helps. You asked an honest question.
@@thepatternforms859 When he says to soften or stiffen the compression or rebound, he means the compression damping or rebound damping. Suspension works by having a spring, and then an oil damping system to slow down how fast the spring compresses and rebounds, and to stop the spring just bouncing back and forth over and over. Minor suspension tuning is done by tweaking the damping rates (compression and rebound clickers), and the preload. Major suspension tuning is done by changing the actual spring (and valving to match).
Great explanation. We don't get enough of these videos. People in the lower classes or just starting out have no idea how to make their suspension work.
Glad you liked it! Suspension can seem confusing but it can be simplified and easy to understand. - Chase
Last Saturday went awesome. I was having a lot of doubts about my bike and what to do in the future with it..... I fell in love with it once again because I went back to stock settings and started from there again. Turns out I was going the wrong way with some settings. Going back to basics made miracles for me.
That's awesome to hear! Thanks for sharing your feedback.
This is the first time I have actually started to understand what and how the adjusters work. Thanks so much. You guys rock!
Maybe this tip is more for valving but OIL WEIGHT is key for a better suspension feel. I just opened my Racing suspension shop and thanks to great people out there that trust in me my suspension it's working good on the track. Nice video ROCKY MOUNTAIN GUYS very complete and informative. Cheers from Baja Mexico
Thanks for bringing that point up! Congrats on the new shop!
So true. I use slightly thicker oil if the suspension is valved too soft when I first get it. Gets it close enough for me a lot of times
For me, the lighter the oil the better like 5wt, (does not fade as much). Then I like a heavy spring with light compression damping and a small amount of spring preload, (forks). You will need stiffer rebound after that, but you should find it supple on small stuff and braking bumps, and still able to handle the big hits. With my way, the compression damping does not hold the front up higher, the stiffer spring does. I like the springs to do most of the compression work. Now it is your turn to tell me how to port a 2-stroke engine, because that is what I do for a living. :) Enjoy your business while we still can. Doug in Michigan.
@@EarthSurferUSA Porting a 2 stroke engine is an art. know the STA values is the first thing before make any kind of modification in the ports. Cheers bro! Keep up with your business!
Here's a really simple way to approach suspension that anyone can wrap their head around: find a track or section of trail that is representative of the type of riding you do the most. Record your base settings, go out for a short ride (5 min.) Then, try adjusting just one setting. Go a couple of clicks in the direction you think you need so you're sure to notice the difference. Now, go back out and ride that same section again. Better, or worse? If it's worse, try going in the other direction from your base setting. If it's better, try going further. Most importantly, take notes at each step (yes actually write them down). If you're a racer, get someone to time you, but be careful not to put too much weight into timing vs feel as there are other things that can affect your speed, like time of day and how long you've been riding.
You'll start to really map out by feel what each setting is doing and one by one you'll be getting them dialed in. There are some more complex interactions that can occur, like when your compression and rebound are both slow and you start packing your suspension down with successive hits, so this method isn't foolproof but it's a heckuva lot better than doing nothing with your clickers because you don't feel like you know enough.
Very nice as always Chase. One thing we used to do when my son raced AX was we would take video (like we saw of you) and we would watch it at the track, make adjustments that both he andI could see. That YZF is a sweet ride!
That's a good idea. You forget what you heard or saw so quick sometimes. And yes, the YZ250f is a rad machine. Thanks for watching!-Chase
I went from riding a 1986 kx125. too a 2019 yz450f. my old kx had some horrible old out dated suspension that I couldn’t do much with. after getting on my yzf the suspension feels amazing but have been told I still need to set it up it feels very hard / stiff this videos has helped me a lot I am nearly 16 stone so may need to do more then just setting but is a great video helped my a lot I thought it was good before but have it so much closers to my needs thanks
That's awesome to hear, Stephen. Glad we could help you out! Have fun out there and be sure to get signed up for Fantasy SX! - Chase
Best video in the internet
My racetech guy taught me to set it all in the middle, and then adjust one setting four clicks in one direction. If it feels better, do four more. If it feels worse back it up two clicks and of course go the other direction if it still feels worse at two. Then do the same for each. I just hate doing a lap or two and having to ride back to the truck to adjust. I need to get myself a stylin fanny pack I can put a flathead and some sockets in so I can just pull over on the track and do it there. Those clickers on the bottom of the forks are always fun to get to when adjusting on your own.
All that being said, I'm getting back into riding and find that my comfort level and skill is changing faster than I can adjust my suspension, so I need to chill until I start to flatten out in a comfortable spot.
Loving these videos, just got a 2017 KTM 450. Never adjusted the suspension in a bike before, had no clue about sag. Not my first bike, just never messed with it.
Wish i had a dirt bike... but still i watch all of your videos ... “Chaze “ is my fav
One day u will have one, took me a while to save up for one but once I got it, best thing ever
@@Scythe_Voltage yeah sir.... im saving my best to get one 😇
@@ravi3457 do you have a bike yet?
@@xcvsdxvsx haha. Still no..gonna get one next year.. I'm saving 26 years old now
@@ravi3457 Doooooo it. Get a cross country racer though like a yz450fx. Mountains and trails are so much better than a motocross track.
Holy hell, I have never touched my suspension until this video, this showed me how to fix a couple problems with my suspension that I didn’t know how to deal with before. Thank you so much:)
Great to hear!
I have always just worked with how a bike is set up for my trail riding. I recently rebuilt& resprung my kx 250 for my weight and need to set sag which led me to want to have it all set up. After 30 years of trails and now living in the desert....
I took 20 years off trail riding, (I used to race MX also), to find set up is different today, and I don't think very functional. The seat height is usually taller than in the 80's and 90's, and the bars are rotated forward like a 1999 Freestyle set up, with level levers. The rider position has gone forward a bit, and to compensate they use 105mm or more rear suspension sag. I hated the set up, lowered my suspension by .75", my seat by 1" (2019 YZ250 2-stroke, a very tall bike today), rotated my bars and levers back to 1988ish (when we thought better IMO), and set my rear sag at 98mm to start (100mm if I did not lower the suspension), and boom, all the sudden I can feel the corners again if there is no berm. I think we are entering an era of dysfunction, and MX is not alone. I think it is every industry. It is called "progress" in our schools today.
Can you make a video about this topic but as applies to trails and single track?
I’m not a seasoned rider or anything, but just wondering. Wouldn’t the same principles apply for trails? Or does the slower pace make a large difference?
@@redone8341 woods is different then motor cross. Usually in the woods you tend need softer set up
@@redone8341 being that most of the dirt bike market is geared towards motocross most bikes come with springs and valving meant to help soak up hard hits and make it more controllable. Riding slower and on bumpy rocky less groomed terrain you won't get the full advantage of the suspension and it will more than likely feel rough. Dirtbikes targeted to trail riding like the dr, wr, or klx to name a few tend to be a bit softer.
With how stiff I was running my suspension down in Florida doing enduro/hare scramble style riding on smoother faster terrain with some good bumps n jumps, it's way too stiff for the slower rocky terrain out here in Colorado and needs to be softened up a bit more as my springs alone are kicking the bike out on loose rocks, gravel, and silt on bedrock like crazy.
Thank you very much for this info. It explains alot of the mystery about suspension problems. This helps me understand why the bike doesn't feel right.
Glad it helped you out!
Finally touched my suspension for the first time after having a too stiff bike for years.
How’d you go mate? Need to stiffen mine and I’ve never touched it before
@@burnthepoliticians rode it last weekend and it made a world of difference. I'm kicking myself for not doing it sooner
Riley McKee damn I’m bout to try to loosen mines way too stiff
yeah i might try to do mine aswell
Hmmm, you might want to get the oil changed too. The shock body is usually plated or hard anodized, but if the inside of the forks are not hard anodized, the oil will be mud.
Wow. Finally! A much needed video. Thank you for posting 👍🏻👍🏻
Glad you got something out of it. Thank you!
I understand how and why the clickers do to the oil flow to controls dampening. I just have a hard time knowing what changes to make to effect feel on bike. This video does pretty good to try and explain the on bike feel compared to clicks and how to tune things out that you dont want.
"its actually really simple" proceeds to deliver a doctoral thesis...
Yeah, I need this explained to me like I am five years old. I am drowning in a sea of vocabulary and complex examples about what certain riders may or may not do.
Homosexual communist
im crying laughing this is so true lmao
If anyone wants to learn about Jesus Christ reply
13min video isn’t needed LOL
A little know fact. I was a suspension development ride back in the late 80s a d early 90s. We would work to get good working suspension on models a NS then the next year when the new bikes came out they didn’t feel the same. What we found out was the bike companies would use a different oil in the suspension then we used to get the settings. It was not the premium oil we used to set it up. Most manufacturers have their own suspension setup place in the USA. Call them. They will often sell you the good stuff they used in setting up the suspension in the first place. It can make a lot of difference. It can make certain forks feel so much better. Also a good fork seal lubricant like what Ohlins sells can make your fork eat little bumps much better. Simmons developed it years ago then Ohlins purchased the rights to it. Great stuff.
The suspension fluid my 2019 2-stroke YZ250 uses is a 0 weight oil, and I would not want to use anything else for the factory valving, (OK, I am mixing some Maxima 3W with it (maybe 15% Maxima), to get more control of the shock rebound with a stiff spring in it, which I don't think will compromise compression or induce fading at all.).
I don't think it was Ohlins who came out with that anti-stiction grease for fork and shock seals. I think it was Simmons and called "SF3 grease". Race Tech now sells it or something similar. I like to cut strip of open face foam to the correct length to fit under the fork wiper and completely around the upper chrome tube, (3.1416 "Pi" times the diameter of the tube, will get the exact length), spear that Simmons/Race tech grease on it, and stuff it between the fork wiper and the seal. I have never had a blown fork seal doing that, and the grease is always there to fight stiction.
Thank-you for actually explaining how to properly set up your suspension. Most if not all other videos I have seen use jargon I don't understand. I am a newish rider and alot of this stuff is still over my head. I am debating on respringing my bike. This has helped. Thankyou
Thank you for this video. The way you explained things now make much more sense to me. Now I'm going out riding today and doing some testing. I know its going to take me all day but that's OK at least I'll be riding.
You've got nothing to lose! Make changes and see how it feels. Glad you liked the video and it helped you out. Have fun out there and watch out for that Covid-19! - Chase
@@rmatvmc Hey thanks again for the video you made on suspension setup . Took my time throughout half the the day writing everything down each time I went out . Unfortunately I'm going to have to do it all over again. I'm going to have to buy a heavier spring for the rear. Another thing I tried messing with is something you you might want to make a video on is handlebar position / bar mounts flipping them around definitely makes a difference in how your body position and that in turn seemed to me to make a difference in how I wanted my suspension setup . Or maybe I'm completely wrong. Then again a video like that might make some peoples heads explode Cruz that just throws one more thing into the mix of already so many variables it could get more confusing . P.S. You got a kick ass job RM ATV MC hiring for any product testers? :-) :-)
First video on compression and rebound etc I've seen that makes sense to me, it explained everything at the right level, I dont ride much off road but I'm wiser now, thank you, this and the sag video by your colleague are now my go to list if I ever need to play with any adjustments I might have with my new suspension 😀
That's awesome! I'm glad it helped you out! We actually just filmed a few more general suspension videos and plan to do more tech videos like this one! - Chase
Thanks been riding all my life now I'm 52 . After watching your explanation I'm going to have a play around with me suspension on my Wr 450 better late then never..
It's never too late to start!
Being a novice rider I actually found that a softer spring rate vs my weight improved the handling of the bike and made it turn much more quickly and helped it get traction as opposed to a stiffer spring (that was more suited to my actual weight).
wait what?
I suppose it also highly depends on the kind of riding you do, softer springs are more well suited for less extreme riding where as stiffer springs will feel better with harder impacts.
This helped me a lot!!! Thank you. Also I raced my first race at this exact track. Crashed and finished last but I finished the race it was 1994ish
I did about 50-60 MX races around and before that time in 1994. I came close, but I never finished last. David Bailey finished last in his first race, so I like to say I used to be better than David Bailey. :)
If you are at a bumpy track where you can see the roost well, you can actually see who has a better rear shock set up. The more the roost is continuous, (on the gas over the bumps), the better the rear wheel is hooking up. The more the roost is "off and on", the more time the wheel is spinning in the air.
Again, something I learned from Paul Thede's "suspension bible", from Race Tech.
Thank you very much...I ride a street bike and the info you have given is so helpful.
According to Paul Thede's Race Tech Suspension Bible", (probably the best book about motorcycle suspension on the planet), rebound is very easy to set and can be done pretty well by just pushing on the seat and watching/feeling it rise. First you have to make sure the linkage is working well with no binding or added friction, or the test will not work.
All you do is have the bike on the ground, front wheel straight, and push down on the seat and let it rise back up with you hand just feeling it. If it is too slow, it will rise and stop at the top. If it is too fast, it will rise past top, come back down a little and do that 2 or 3 ti8mes (oscillating at the top of it's stroke). it it is good, it will rise a tad past the top, and come back down only once and stop. Do that well with the correct spring rate, and all you have to worry about is compression.
Time! I have never planned to do suspension settings setup work instead of just riding. Like if I have half a day do be a dirt bike rider I’m going to ride like the weekend warrior I am. But I want nothing else than a perfectly tuned bike! Aah, help! 😂🤘🏻
Great info., but the reason I’m posting is to commend your sales staff for their excellent customer service. There was a mix up on one of my orders and they made it disappear. RM has been our {2 sons and I) source of parts 95% of the time since your beginning. 👍👍👍👍👍
That's awesome to hear, Power Wagon. We really appreciate you and your son's business and thank you for taking the time to write that. We try our best to have the best customer service in the industry. Have a good week!-Chase
Thank you so much!! I never knew what I had to change until now but new something wasn’t right.
Glad it helped you out.
Thanks for watching!
Very well made detailed video, though my situation is a little different. I'm learning this for street riding on my DRZ400SM. I'm planning on riding with a passenger and to compensate for the extra weight, should I stiffen up the high and low speed compression? Also should I just stiffen the rear or the front too? Thanks.
i weigh about 165 and ride a 18 wr450f. this vid helped a lot i think im gonna go with softer spring rate and revalve bc i could never get it to feel right
165 on a 450 is probably a tad light for stock springs. Measure the sag correctly and set it (typ 100-105mm for the rear with you in riding gear on the bike). Now the "bike sag" (just the bike weight), should be 25mm + or - 10mm. If you need a softer spring, you will have more bike sag and visa versa.
Bought Type 3 Gold Valves from Race Tech at full price then saw them $40 cheaper on Rocky Mountain.... $60 cheaper if you include free shipping over $75...
Listen to pulpmx, theres a discount code
Thanks for this video! I felt I had some ok knowledge, but this was explained very well and thoroughly.
Glad it was helpful!
Great insight for beginners like me. Thanks Jase!
Glad it was helpful!
I’m too dumb for this I’m just gonna keep everything stock and let my bike beat me up and deal with it
Probably not a bad approach ... at least for a few seasons, assuming you are of moderate weight for your bike. By then you'll know if you have any complaints/ issues. Also, by then I'd think you best change the fork oil and then compensate/adjust for any wear that will have naturally taken place over time and usage.
@@delinquense what would you suggest for someone who weighs 280 lb? My Raptor wants to kick me off with the rebound it seems like when I hit a bump hard the Springs compress and when it bounces back it wants to throw me off. I was thinking to make it softer somehow so the suspension doesn't bounce back and throw me off. I don't want my rear suspension to shoot me in the air I hurt my wrist real bad last time trying not to fly forward
@@thethiefonthecross9092 I'm no suspension genius and there is a lot to consider, your weight being very important ofmcourse-. It's one of those things I tend not to touch very often.
I can tell you that when I got my new 2018 Beta 300RR Race, it didn't seem like it was absorbing on the impact. Problem was I hadn't owned a dirt bike for literally 3 decades so I thought that was normal for new suspension. It came with the upgraded Sachs forks. Then I got a 2021 Beta 390RR Race with KYBs and it seems so much better out of the box. All this to say ... I would recommend that you spend a few minutes to understand how your suspension works and then just start playing with it. Don't be afraid to adjust things ... you wont hurt anything. Make sure you write down all of your settings on the clickers. Eventually you will get the responsiveness, comfort and feel that you desire. It's a lot of trial and error. Don't take it in to the shop or you will be beholden to them whenever you have an issue.
😂😂😂😂
If you watch the video over and over again you’ll start to understand
If you’re sweating and exhausted, sliding around and not able to keep up when everyone else deems to be doing fine it’s your suspension setup and body position. Put everything to the middle and ride for 20 minutes, Dont make changes to the bike for at least that time.
Put your bike on a center stand and stand on the pegs in a neutral position without holding the bars. Rest your hands on the bars with no pressure on your legs or hands. That’s your primary body position.
If this takes ANY effort stand up a bit straighter and move your weight forward until you could stand there all day.
That’s your basic position.
Your thigh muscles are the largest in your body and use the most energy. Squatting on the bike screws up your balance, reaction time and exhausts you.
Being relaxed improves balance, reaction time and gives you a basic position to return to for straights and recovery.
Once you have this, suspension setup starts to make sense.
When you ride for the first time in a day, Dont make changes for 30 minutes! The bike ALWAYS feels shit and wired until you’re warmed up and relaxed!
Easy rules:
Remember to BREATH. holding your breath starves your muscles and reduces concentration.
RELAX - find that neutral riding position.
When I’m tired and racing hard I have a mantra that I repeat over and over, “ RELAX….BREATH….RELAX…BREATH”
Hey, man it works for me 👍
I love all the adjustment there is for suspension today, can be adjust to work for just about anybody. It is a lot more inclusive than the seat heights today, that pretty much exclude anybody under 5'11" tall from good cornering. :) Lower your bike. You will corner better than the guy fiddling with his suspension. :)
awesome description of comp being too soft!!! i love these vids!
Very nice video. I think we need a video that tells what suspension changes to make for bad bike behavior. Or which problems are caused by bad suspension setup. My bike maybe misbehaving and I think oh that is just my make and model of bike. But it actually maybe a suspension setup problem. Like the bike won't stay in a rut. Headshake. Wash outs. Oversteer. Understeer.
Nothing better than my Rm250 when had suspension dialed felt amazing!
few tips here!!! adjust sag first, the clicks affect how the bike turn too
Great video track surface ie wet/dry soft/hard is also a massive player in set up i've always found that getting plenty of laps in and experimenting with settings you get a feel for what works best under different conditions :D
That's definitely a great point. Thanks for the input!
I totally agree. Like i mentioned, there are soooo many things/adjustments that can be made for suspension and so many variables. Hopefully this video just gives some good basic info to get people going in the right direction. Thanks for watching!-Chase
mount gopro under engine to watch wheel movement - Helps a HUGE amount
Great idea!!!!
My only comment is that rear end squat under acceleration, and compression on smaller landings and rollers are typically "low speed" shock shaft velocities that Low Speed Compression will resolve. High Speed Compression is typically for square edged bumps and hard landings. That said, adjustments made to LSC will effect HSC as well.
If your getting head shake at high speeds you can also tighten your steering stem nut a tad. Made a Hugh difference on my Yamaha, I can relax more at speed with out running a steering damper
Good advice. I just did that they other day on my Kawi haha. - Chase
I have a 2019 yz 250f and I love it! Great video
I bet I just got the YZ450FX after owning a 2017 Honda 450RX which I also loved at the time, The New Yamaha beats it hands down,, Yamaha hit the ball out of the park this time, Have you played with the ignition settings, I down loaded the torque setting with an FMF Pipe amazing,,, The bottom end is off the chart
I have not the bike is perfect stock😁
I really like your riding style man you nailed some great berms looked great and fantastic advice cheers
Thanks Thumpermad. Glad you like the video and you liked the info. Have fun out there! - Chase
Tips that I've learned
If you adjust the compression count how many turns and do half of that for the rebound in the same direction. Another thing is that if you adjust the rebound by itself then do the same with compression. And try to use the whole fork or shock because it will feel better
Right you are my friend. I think I mentioned that in the video but can't remember, it's been a while haha. But I always say for every two clicks on compression, as a good rule of thumb, go one click the same direction on rebound. Thanks for watching.-Chase
Thank You for reading my comment and responding
My suspension was squishy. I tightened the compression to limit the stroke from bottoming out. It also bucked so I thought to open the rebound. I thought softer rebound, not as stiff, won't buck. That actually made it rebound faster because I opened it, letting it return faster. Now I'll probably tighten my rebound as well so it doesn't rebound as fast.
Yes, a good rule of thumb is that for every two clicks stiffer on compression, go 1 click slower (in) on rebound. A stiff fork or shock with a fast rebound may not settle well. Try it out and let us know how it goes.-Chase
Also if your suspension is not serviced and is leaking oil you will always be chasing your tail. The right amount of oil is key to how the suspension works. If you have a leaking shock or forks it will never feel right.
Very true. Thanks for mentioning that!
Great video guys!!👍🏼 I hope the people watching this video realize it's a monster difference when you set your bike up for body size and riding ability. Great video for any novice rider who is afraid to touch their suspension and was nervous to go to a dealership or go to a suspension shop to talk suspension because they didn't know what to really ask or how to describe their riding ability or areas that they need help with on what the bike is doing. This video will help them feel more comfortable on understanding what their suspension is doing and how they can tune it on motocross tracks / woods single track. "The Ohio Gang"..Northwoods Concepts 🤙🏼
Glad you liked the video, stacy beach! Just like you said, this video was to help those that maybe don't understand the concepts and how to set their bike up all that well. Appreciate the feedback. Have fun out there!-Chase
So... Compression setting on fork can be on bottom OR top OR one side of the forks! Easy peasy. I got this.
Another awesome video! Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with us!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Modern suspension is amazing. I remember when clicks barely made a difference.
What are the side effects if your rebound is too fast. He explained what it was if it was too slow. Sorry if I missed it somewhere.
If rebound is too fast on the forks, the fork might feel like it's deflecting rather than absorbing the bumps and chop, climbing out of ruts, or it bounces up after jump landings. For the shock, if it feels like the rear end is kicking after absorbing a bump and maybe you've already gone stiffer on compression, or if under braking and decel, the shock feels like it lifts or dances around is another sign to slow it down.-Chase
Would a kick from rebound too fast be seen on a single bump? I’ve seen when rebound is too slow the suspension becomes very harsh but only in a series of tightly spaced trail whoops or braking bumps. I’m thinking about going faster on rebound and softer on compression so I can use my travel more fully and be very plush while still able to hit whoops at the same speed. Would this work?
Chase with another great video as always your reviews and videos are my favorite and Rocky Mountain is the best motorcycle channel on youtube
We're glad you like the videos and the channel so much! Thanks for watching and supporting. Have fun out there-Chase
Rocky Mountain ATV MC welcome Chase you do your job well
How do you set it up so you get no sag? Not racing just a heavier rider and want a higher balanced
Good video to reference. I think a lot of us feel that setting suspension is like solving a rubik cube. You can get close but never seem to accomplish the whole puzzle.
But you can get very close! You have to commit to working on it for a whole day. I was at a sand track a few days ago and I must have changed my clicker settings 10-15 times til I found something I liked. Most riders just don't take the time and effort to really "test" and find a good setting.-Chase
Great video! I will be referring to it next moto to dial my suspension in for sure!
Glad you found it useful, Ryan. You'll have to let us know how it goes!-Chase
The whole going softer and softer thing happened to me today , set it stiff and I was flying over bumps and whoops like they wernt even there
How about braking bumps on hard ground, especially down hill? Choppy?
That’s exactly what I was feeling, going down hills it felt like my arms were gonna get rattle right off the bars lol I kept going softer and softer making the problem worse. Stiffen up those forks everywhere I ride is hard pack, rocks and sand
Can you guys do a suspension video for trail or enduro riding?
We've talked about that. Just need to make it happen!
That would be awesome. I am definitely not smart enough to figure it out on my own and I am getting worked on some of our PNW trails
@@adamdyment9732 Sounds good! what bike are you on?
I’m on an 06 crf450x which I know isn’t the ideal bike for log hopping, hill climbs and boulder fields. Seems like dialing in the suspension is even more important since it’s setup for more desert riding.
On the shock,rebound has more to do with compression because of the free bleed bypassing the shim stack.If you get too slow on rebound the shock will feel very harsh.
I’m 200lbs and checked the sag on my 2022 te300i and it was perfect. Lol
I got a 2017 300xc with aer i have the compression turned all the way out to make it plush im in 1st to 2nd gear nasty roots and rocks . I see nothing wrong with it turned all the way out and i really like the plush ride now what are your opionions on this setting im 250lb air side 145-155 psi .
Seth, if it feels good to you and you're happy with it, then that's all you need. Now if you took that same setting out to the desert and was hitting some high speed bumps and jumps, it most likely would be too soft. Suspension is all about what makes you feel comfortable. No two people are the same.-Chase
@@rmatvmc that was my thoughts allso THANKYOU! For the reply!
Seth Jeffreys I am going to try this.
@@frankthebutcher6704 Frank where do you ride how fast do you ride and how heavy are you, and what kind of bike are you riding
For slow stuff it’s probably fine but I’m only 152lbs on a 2018 450SXF that weighs only 217lbs on a full tank and ride fast rough sand and even at 160psi if I went out more than 16 clicks on the compression the front fork would dive way too deep into the stroke and would unload the rear suspension causing the rear of the bike to swap side to side no matter what I did to the rear suspension setup. I fixed it by lowering the pressure (I did it a few psi at a time). I ended up at 126psi but kept turning the compression in until it felt perfect. I ended up at 7 clicks out. It actually feels a lot less harsh in the hands this way versus 158-160 and 17-19 clicks out and it’s so much more stable in the whoops no matter how fast I go.
Excellent video, I will watch several more times, with the bike, But I have a question...Why would you ever want/need a slow rebound.....I would think you always want a quick return to the ground (or neutral pozish)...?
Sorry, Just read Danny Lenz comment....There are times to "float"...good stuff!
Great info..can you do video on dual sports on trails?
More than 3 or 4 clicks on compression 90% of the time you will have to adjust rebound to match. Softer compression will probably need faster rebound since there is more movement down, forks will need to come up faster to keep wheel in contact with ground.
Your are right. A good rule of thumb is for every two clicks on compression, you go 1 click on rebound, whichever direction it is you go. Thanks for watching-Chase
When my rebound was too soft/fast on forks, when I brakes hard to a stop, the last bit of stopping distance would feel like I ran over a stuffed animal. Sometimes I would get the same squishy sideways feel in a corner.
Rocky Mountain is the best
Damn right!
Heard a good trick. Put a zip tie on the fork slider to see how far you fork is travelling. If not using almost the whole fork stroke. Set up to stiff.
That is a good tip! People will do that on mountain bikes as well but another tip is to put the zip tie on inside out to make removing it easier.
Awesome video very helpful I was nervous to adjust my clickers but I finally did because I would get head shake but I went 2 clicks out on rebound and it helped s bit but still get s little bit every now and then do you have somewhere we can send a video and you can help us out a bit ?
If you raise your front end 2 mm it will help big time with head shake,,, 2mm is about two penny's stacked trust me it works, if it still shakes after that go 1 more mm
Thanks for this video, this is golden!
Nice job on this video, covers most of the bases. Thank you.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.
Thanks for this video. Great job guys.
Most new stock bikes come with decent suspension . All’s it takes is a few minor adjustments for free .
That completely depends on your skill, weight, speed etc. I agree that bikes come with great stock suspension these days, but that doesn't mean it can't be better. TJ Bronson from 891 Suspension and I did a video talking exactly about this. It will be dropping soon! - Chase
Awesome explanation man, thanks for your help! 🤙
Can you please do a video on Atv suspension?
Very informative. 👍
Thanks for watching!
What would you recommend if you hit a hole in a track and get Head shake, bike feels like it dives but doesn’t come back up so my guess was rebound but hasn’t changed much?
Hi, would you know what the rider sag is for a Honda cr 125 96 model? Your video is very helpful, thank you.
Thank you guy. Really nice explanation
You bet! Glad you liked it and thanks for watching-Chase
I have another DR 650 coming and I am 180 lbs. going to use it as a ADV bike, but want to do a fare bit of off road but on the slower side as I am 71yr. Should I be looking at changing springs or just going to a heaver fork oil. I want to be able to go over logs if they are in my way. The last time I did any real of road was over 40 yr ago, and it was on a DR 600 kick start only and it got me through any thing I wanted, but I was never in to racing just enjoying the back woods. and going where there is no trail, a lot of the time.
A much needed video...thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching!
If the one fork has compression setting and the other has rebound but they are two different entities. How do they work in unison? Always baffled me. Thanks
1:15 "Alright, first things first", then he skipped the first things that are suppose to be first.
1) Make sure you have the proper spring rates for your weight and the rear sag set correctly, (front to if you can).
2) Make sure your shock linkage is maintained well. Get rid of any friction in the suspension system (front and back), that is not suppose to be there.
3) Then play with the clickers.
There is one fantastic book I know about that if you read and understand it, you may be sharp enough to start a suspension company and do well. Paul Thede's Race Tech Suspension Bible. Did you with a well lubed and properly working linkage, you can actually set your rebound dampening by pushing on the seat and watching how it rebounds?
Compression is way more complicated because of all the different bumps, and all rebound has to do is control the spring rebound, and help keep the tire on the ground for traction.
This video helped me a lot👍🏼thanks!
Glad it helped you out, Cody! - Chase
Nice video. I have one question, I just purchased a brand new Yamaha YZ250 out of the box and wanted to dry test the shock by pushing the seat down by hand while adjusting the low speed compression clicker. I screwed it to both min and max settings but it always feels the same when pushing the seat by hand. Is it normal or does my new shock have an issue? The rebound setting works fine and can be clearly determined by pushing the seat down and let it rebound. Only the compression feels always the same. Please let me know if it is normal? Do you feel a difference between min and max lowspeed compression setting with this dry test by hand or not?
I think you may be overthinking it just a little too much. I wouldn't try to analyze my suspension just pushing down on the seat. I've tried this before when adjusting rebound and unless you spend a lot of time with suspension, it's pretty hard to really feel the difference in your clickers just pushing down on the seat. My guess is your suspension works just fine and you need to go ride on it and feel the difference while riding.-Chase
@@rmatvmc Thanks for your reply. So you don't feel any difference on your bike's lowspeed compression as well by pushing the seat by hand? Then I think everything is alright with my suspension, at least it is new.
I think you're suspension is perfectly fine. Go ride it and make sure you're at your factory recommended base settings and make adjustments from there. Let me know how it goes-Chase
I was told that you will ride way faster by getting suspension set up properly, rather than hopping up your engine. I want to get my suspension redone, not sure if I want to tackle it myself or send it somewhere
I agree 100%. You have to be at a very high level before the power of a bike is the problem. I don't know any riders that want more power from a 450. Having a bike that handles well is the most important part. - Chase
Playing with the Valving is where the real rabbit hole begins.
Yeah, hopefully whoever is doing it for you has a good base to start at.
I’m still confused but I’ll come back and watch this more thoroughly. I bought a single track bike (ktm 300 Xc-w) and I’m wondering if it’s ok to use on a mx track. It’s set up for Erzberg type riding. I’m a novice.
As a novice rider you should be just fine. I'm guessing your suspension is set up pretty soft for that type of riding. As you get faster and start doing bigger jumps, you'll most likely need to stiffin it up to handle the faster speeds, bigger bumps, and landings. - Chase
Good all around info...Thank you !!