This one is 32 minutes long. 0:00 my apology for 2 things in this video 2:00 WHY you never REALLY loved the narcissist 2:46 the obsession you feel is false 4:15 I asked Sam Vaknin and he said "my name is Sam Vaknin" th-cam.com/video/luegzfzClCY/w-d-xo.html 5:00 the Shared Fantasy of relationships and the Blue Pill 7:07 Key word is "shared" 9:00 your sharing a sick fantasy, poisoned chalice 9:45 OF COURSE THEY INDUCE EMOTIONS! 10:44 Narcissist as Inverted Human/Mirror/Sauron 11:50 you are consenting to the sharing 12:15 Narcissist as "reaction cultivating machine" 13:24 Assume you feel the way they want you to feel 14:35 Funny story about Sean Connery lookalike 16:50 WE are submerged in THEIR fantasy of themselves 18:30 look at the hook, did you fuse with them? 19:10 The Narcissistic Contract in essence 20:10 what to do if you get angry with yourself during therapy 21:22 Chapter 2 22:30 I didnt love them like I thought 23:50 shared fantasy space is still there when its over 25:00 even therapy is a shared "game" 25:30 its a game of worship, not love 26:00 NOT everyone has the capacity to love 27:10 we LEARN to love through failing at the endeavour 28:20 Final point: you cant love someone you dont know 29:00 "the teenage crush on a popstar" 29:40 not in love, but lust - is bullshit 30:25 Nunu tingle 31:40 Narcissism rule: dominance or nothing
@Richard...Sharing in their fantasy and thinking you love/loved them ... hmm interesting. Its really all about the narc the people around them are just their to massage their ego and make them look good. I used to think I couldn't survive without mine but staying with him was killing me. Finally getting some goodness back in my life. Its been a hell of a long road and not sure I ll ever recover fully!!! I used to be so bubbly and fun but now I am unsure of myself, and introverted and quiet, I don't even speak much to anyone anymore. Is it EVEN POSSIBLE TO RECOVER FULLY AFTER NARC ABUSE?
I seriously agree with this. It’s funny now, i was even actually told in words by a person that I was head over heels for that person…it struck me odd then, and I see it in whole different nuances today than I was able to at that time. And I did want the fantasy I was being presented with, which put me in a position of needing to keep finding ways to uphold that. Exploring what that fantasy was for me, and why it was a thing, and creating a much more mature version of what I’d call love has helped me immensely. I think it’s great to have fantasy elements in it, but there’s a gigantic difference between having a fantasy castle and trying to stuff bits of reality into the rooms inside that thing, and having a nice home made up of reality into which ya put a few fantasy elements on a sofa table lol. Two very different things.
I suspect one reason people think the narcissist is a famous person (Angelina, Sean Connery, Johnny Depp) is that the narcissist has cloned those actors' personas and is projecting that image out to their targets. So it's not about similar looks it's that the narcissist is emulating the character traits of the famous star which they present as their false self.
I remember having a revelation in the relationship with my narc-ex. I thought I adored him, thought and felt I loved him deeply...then one day, I realised it was just an unhealthy obsession and that actually, I didn't even really like him as a person. I could see him for who he really was. I remember seeing the silhouette of his back in bed next to me during the night and a voice in my head saying "I don't want you here". It surprised me but it came from deep within and was something I had not allowed myself to acknowledge prior to then.
@mz. white the attachment is the hardest thing ,l thought l was healed and completely over him,Christmas has been difficult but lve got through it.l'll listen to my gut next time ,never going through this nightmare ever again
@@Catlady2020 the thought of my BPD/NPD/histrionic ex makes me puke in my mouth a little - there is NOTHING at all attractive about her as a person, esp when i see her continuing to lie and manipulate everyone around her.
Yep...same...I resonate with what you say about, "I don'twant you here"... I would go over to my ex's place and while laying there, I would pan the room, with that deep surfacing question, "What am I doing here still". My nervous system was sooooo fakked up...I didn't even recognize myself.
We fall in love with the way they made us feel when they were love bombing us. It’s actually an ego issue. We want to be special to them. The exception.
@Sasha Friedman I would think that is not the same dynamic at all but there are probably similar roots. you were just a child. And every child should feel special to their mom. As a mom I make sure both my kids feel the same amount of love from me even if I deal with them differently according to their needs/personality... they never EVER have to question if they are special to me.
@Sasha Friedman you deserved better as a child. I wish every kid could get what they need. The world would be less sick. I’m sorry you had to go through that BS. you are worthy of love. 😇
Really, first time in my life I experienced a hardcore narcissist after being single for 5 years. I was with him for 3 years but looking back...I just ignored my intuition,please listen to your body or you can get sick. I really knew something wasn't right. Very well explained.
All true: Looking back, he really was NOT attractive, barely adequate sexually and I really did not love him as I thought I did. Oh, I loved him intensely, but the purity of that love - that came from and comes from ME - he was never worthy of. I still have it for someone who deserves it, mostly..ME❤️
They put people under a spell. I still can't believe how manipulative they are. I have dealt with several in my life and they literally all have the ability to make me so angry. It's a sign to remember. They go straight for the juggler no mercy on the daily. It was hard to let go of the fantasy of finding the love of my life. Now I am like omg what was I thinking! When did my standards sink so low!
@@Adam-xs3ng exactly 💯. It's a painful experience. It's tough to know that you were completely fooled. The farther away, the better and the only way to do that is no contact!
This is absolutely how it is. When the mask slipped I felt as though he wasn't real at all, and that I'd made him up in my head. And now from a distance I also see that the love I felt was also not real, I made that up too. All of it is such a head fuck, firstly the pain, trauma and mental exhaustion from being in the eye of the storm. Then when you make it out the other side, the fact that you allowed this to happen to yourself, that you made this person up, that the love you felt was artificially induced and not real, that they saw you as an object and not a person is also a head fuck. Recovery feels like climbing Everest snakes and ladders style. I do have longer periods of being ok now before slipping back, and each time not falling quite so far before scrambling back up. It's a hell of a climb though. I think the overwhelming feeling during and after the relationship is one of unreality, it's really discombobulating.
Bless your heart. When I tell you this is my healing process. Same thing, just when you think you have beat this thing you have a setback. Like you said each time it gets easier 🦾🦾🦾🦾🦾🦾🦾🦾
It’s three months since I ended the three year relationship. Am I prolonging the head fuck he caused by watching endless TH-cam videos about narcissists?
@@curiousnetty534 Maybe, maybe not. If it is teaching you the reality of the nature of the person you had a relationship with and is helping you to better understand the twisted dynamic and that it is not your fault; and finally you are aware so that you can avoid allowing this kind of person into your life again and teaches you about installing firm boundaries, then watch. But if the watching becomes obsessive and you are still going over and over the same ground in the years to come then it's not healthy. I didn't even know these people existed until it happened to me and wanted to learn all I could. As a result I am now really interested in psychology and watch relevant content that spans all aspects rather than focusing in on narcissism constantly. I'm learning about myself, how I tick how other people tick, what's dysfunctional and so on. Sometimes narcissism is in the subject and the rest of the time I'm looking at things like social anxiety, mental health disorders, personality types and so on. There's some amazing content available including Richard's as well as some awful content. You have to be discerning. I hope you are on your way to recovery, it was for me a re-occuring cyclical head fuck for years. It's waning, the spaces between lengthening, I feel that I've been fine for over 6 months and counting now. I know the pain will be revisited again at some point but each time the duration gets shorter and the intensity less. I suffer from terrible insomnia, but my nights used to be full of the most painful torment, now, although awake my head is not filled with him or what he did and my heart not full of emotional torment. Now everything feels quiet and peaceful when I am wide awake at 3am, the incessant chatter surrounding that time in my life has ceased. I do actually feel at peace around it all now but it's been a bloody long haul, mostly my fault as I kept breaking no contact; no contact really is the only way to excise the fuckers. Good luck. x
I agree. You can’t love someone you don’t know. But I disagree…it’s not up, up, up…then down. It’s up and down all the time. When the mask fell I definitely didn’t love who I briefly saw. The trauma bonding just makes it feel so intense and keeps you hooked. It’s an addiction.
My ex-husband so much like my Dad. It felt comfortable, what I was used to. We have been back together 5 months after 3 year break. Time to get out again.
You never love a narcissist because you never know them. That one statement riveted me. I need time to evaluate that. Thank you for sharing your insights.
Reminds me of in the bible when people were saying "but Jesus, didn't we cast out demons in your name?" And he says to them, the narcissists, "I never knew you." Satan was the original narcissist imo. And the bible points out narc behavior. "Have nothing to do with such people." I'm not religious in any sense, but that's because I think these teachings have been manipulated by *gasp* narcissists. The real teachings are in there when you wake up out of the spell.
@Peggy Robertson Then we have to Realize we was in Love Nobody and that Nobody didn't even Love themselves, and turns out they was Ghost and a Wolf in Sheep's Clothing.
Yes, this is my recently realized frustration...I "loved" an illusion, a deception, an image. When realizing it was a lie, my "love" was rapidly replaced by grief then disgust and contempt, as well as embarrassment and anger at having been so easily deceived. A strong boundary of no contact has helped the healing process. And also helpful is a firm long-term belief that no true love can exist in an atmosphere of deception & lies and control & manipulation. True love requires truth and freedom. That there are those who are false makes the existence of those who are true that much more precious.
You are right about the lust thing. I never felt lust for the narcissist after he abused me. I still loved him and craved that from him and that's why I stayed because I still had hope. But lust? No. Being intimate with him actually made me kinda sick.
Yeah, me too. After the sexual abuse I couldn’t be naked anymore. I needed to sleep alone, with lots of clothes on. I even have problems being naked for a bath…
My ex used to say resentfully, "I love you more than you love me," and "I do more for you than you do for me," and "It's hard loving you, but worth it" ( the last he even wrote in a Valentine's card). They were all meant as insults - YOU'RE NOT LOVING ME ENOUGH AND I'M GOING TO LOTS OF TROUBLE LOVING YOU. In reality, he was quite uncaring of my feelings and I was going out of my way to tend to his needs. Loving you is a chore to them . You're just there to worship them.
So true. I got told excessively that he knew me better than I knew myself, and my feelings weren't real. The arrogance and craziness of it all is so bizarre.
First off, this is better than any stand up comedian I've listened to in aaaages! Honestly, Richard you are hilarious - I've lost count of the times I've burst into laughter in a public place (alone, headphones on, walking by the river/in a park/wherever) and felt so connected to and understood by a like minded individual who totally gets the deeply destructive pain of narcissistic abuse - as well as the utter ridiculousness of the whole dynamic/dance/bond which ensues in these partnerships. I don't mean to diminish in any way the suffering inflicted by a narcissist - I am currently processing and healing from emotional abuse from a highly narcissistic partner and seriously struggling just to get out of bed each day. But I would like to add something to Richard's view that we never really love the narcissist (because essentially, they don't exist but rather, they project a false self to the world). And it is this: we (our authentic selves), are never really discarded/devalued/unloved by the narcissist ... because they never really knew us - they never saw, perceived, heard or understood us. Why? For two reasons: firstly, because they didn't have the capacity or desire to really know us as separate, individual beings with agency; and secondly, because they HAD to reject and inevitably discard us because we mirrored THEIR toxic behaviours and their insecurities. Add to this the fact that they are fuelled by an abject fear of emotional intimacy (aka being 'found out' for who they really are) and you're on the train to emotional punchbagville. Currently, I'm on the path of trying to own my part in the shared fantasy, which involves forgiving myself and understanding that my part in the 'bargain' came from a place of open heartedness, trust and authenticity....oh, and no doubt some childhood wounds.. Sending love and light to all :o)
It's taken me nearly all my younger sister's life to love her. But it's not love as usually defined. If I can forgive myself for walking into the abuse repeatedly (and probably more to come), I can forgive her for whatever created the mess over there. And not in a warm fuzzy way there, either. You don't "forgive" the tiger for biting your arm off. You don't offer the other one. You get a whip before you step into that cage. You choose not to do it today. You choose to love yourself even if you can't tame tigers. You leave tigers in the jungle. And you learn what love really is, leaving it alone to process itself. Getting your needs, however mundane, met otherwise without drama. Peace out!
It is an inherent human (maybe merely mammal) need to be seen, acknowledged, accepted. That is the core wound so many of us try to heal by trying to get this from (another) one (other than the one who inflicted the original wound). So not being seen in itself is toxic and at the same time can be highly addictive, as one keeps trying in vain to be seen by the one who has no eyes (or heart) with which to see...
Phoenix Fire, very insightful. The underlying absolutely painful thing is that when you understand all of this, it hurts because in your (my) mind I was open and honest and only trying to be loved by another. It's rejection, even if it came from someone like that. Getting over that is another thing. Richard helps immensely, though...
The narc I lived with and 'loved' really was a figment of my imagination. I filled in all the gaps and was blind to the reality. I created him in my mind. Eventually the illusion fell away as he became more and more abusive and 'absent' and I could no longer deny what I was feeling. In a way he woke me up to my real feelings which I had never experienced- except for fear because I was raised by a violent narc and a Borderline Narc mother. When the WTF moments came I see they were essential to me waking up and started me questioning my childhood and who I really was. Took 30 years though. LOL! Education is the key. This channel is so important to that aim.
Same...26yrs. Im in the process of the legal stuff now. Im totally exhausted. I come back to these videos of people I trust to ground me and keep me moving forward. One day I'll be free, and frankly im learning what that means to me now.
@@sandrad2597 Be strong! I know that exhaustion. At least you know who and what you are dealing with. I had no clue when I divorced and played into his narc. script which wasted so much time and caused so much stress. As Richard says minimum contact. Wish I had know this. Ha
I was a codependent narcissist. I was always looking at my own reflection in their eyes; i was in love with being loved. When i finally dropped this pursuit of reflection, there was nothing there.. I wasn't even a real person, no real values but just a shell. I didn't know what love was, i sure as hell wasn't feeling it. All the pain i'd felt in life was from this idea someone had the wrong image of me in their head, and all my joy was from them having the right image in their head. Just a hollow shell that manipulated people to temporarily fill itself. I'd learned so much about psychology just for the purposes of being able to understand, and by extension, manipulate people into thinking a certain way about me. My every action was fake and deliberate to lead someone to a conclusion on me. Truly a sad existence, and it was shocking to see how blind i'd been to it my whole life. To escape this trap, i had to give up on being loved..My pursuit of "love" ensnared me, or what i thought was love. When i stopped needing love, my real underdeveloped self was finally able to come out; the feeling i realize was REAL love is akin to appreciation and gratitude, and it was so shallow and without depth because of the distorted values i'd held my whole life. Pity the narcissist, because it is truly an awful experience. They are victim of themselves as much as they are victimizers. Unable to be their true selves, they are caged. Oh, and for those wondering, how i was able to "give up on being loved"? It sounds like it was easy, but i had to deliberately expose myself to the idea of never being loved so much until i finally stopped fearing not being loved. When i was no longer afraid of failure in regards to being loved i was finally free of it's grasp. Oh, also, i wouldn't recommend this but.. I took some magic mushrooms with the idea in mind of "letting go" of being loved, or giving up on being loved.. That seriously knocked me in the right direction, although i would've probably got their eventually regardless, it'd have only taken longer.
The Ultimate Trip is as you say. The DEATH of thinking we are bestowed "love" from "others", but ARE in FACT, LOVE. Knowing this heals everything. And everyone.
I'm narcissistic myself. I had a very cold childhood and adolescence, and I had to create a "new me" to extract positive feedback from others, as I saw (and still see) the true self as weak, clueless, and pitiful thanks to consistent bullying and exploitation at the hands of the antagonistic neurotypicals. Narcissism has worked wonders in curing my ages-old depression, but as I go deeper down the rabbit hole, I can't help but wonder why clinical narcissists could possibly be so miserable. Maybe one day I'll find out.
I was also going to mention when I first read this, you may be a Leo. or on the Cancer Leo Cusp. Or the Leo Virgo cusp. BTW, I definitely have narcissistic attributes, because Aries sun , Leo moon. But I also am extremely empathic and am highly motivated to help others, provide inspiration, and lift others up. UNLESS people give me trouble, then I go full narc. lol. I make no apologies.
Ok, i take that back. after i destroy somebody for being a narc, i try to fix them back up again. lol. because I'm not really pathological. Thankfully, this has only happened rinse repeat with one person so far in my long life.
It's amazing how someone can interpret aspects of a narcissist/sociopath's life in order to idealise them; seen from a realistic viewpoint, they can depict an entirely different person. A few examples of idealisation vs reality from my former relationship: "Wow, he's so well travelled and brave for living abroad" (he had an arrest warrant back home); "He's a magnet for women" (he was a serial cheater); "He doesn't care about money"(he usually avoided working); "He's so laid-back" (he was so lazy the house could crumble around him); "He has traditional family values" (he was your average abusive misogynist); "He loves long conversations" (he loved raving about himself and his views for hours); "He's a Jack-of-all-trades" (he couldn't hold down a job for long) etc.
This is excellent. People try to make me feel odd (odder than I am) for not being into casual sex. Just feels like giving too much away for not a lot of return, even detrimental
Makes sense. They never loved us either. They're good at making it look like love. It bothers me so much wnen people who knew me then and met him say that he did love me at the beginning. No, he did not, he was good at pretending.
So true. They love the image they make us to be to fit their overblown image of themselves. Be your true self and they push you off that pedestal real quick. They never loved us and that makes it easier to heal.
@@jp5419 Exactly. And when we are our true selves and someone else comes along and loves us for being us, it makes healing and leaving behind those false beliefs easier too.
@@jp5419 that is exactly what my ex did .she said that image is very important to her,I already felt from the start that she's just pretending about everything with our relationship I just ignored the red flags.until the discard phase when everything I suspected about her was proven true.they absolutely don't care about you and it sucks realizing that you love someone that doesn't really care..
I once looked at him, my ex, and thought, he is very sick. I pushed it down. I would see him casually lie all the time. The one thing that I couldn't tolerate was his anger and his ability to make me feel guilty. I was definitely in the shared fantasy full stop. Glimpses of reality and a sense that this was not sustainable. It was sucking the life out of me. I am so glad to be able to see with no doubt that none of it was real. That was the most confusing thing, I didn't know what was real.
I'm there now....I don't know if it was real or what's real now. I abandoned my husband and kids 20 years ago. I started down this narcissism road about a year or 2 ago after someone else waking my ass up. I have researched myself to death. I just can't or don't know how to believe my ex and my parents really didn't love me. I have gone deep enough now and connected to my self and am feeling what it truly means to 'feel' SHAME. I have SO MANY repressed negative emotions I'm trying to layer through. I'm in such a shame spiral I feel like I'm out of touch with reality. My kids are struggling and my grandson desperately needs someone who sees and hears him and allows him to be himself and not have to twist himself up like a pretzel to feel and know he matters and is truly loved and not a slave to get his needs met. If anyone could offer some feedback I could really use it. Please 💛🙏
@@dontbecomeone9523 I wish I had an easy answer for you. Love yourself and try to understand that you are beautiful in your heart. Speak to yourself as you would speak to your grandson. I am not good at these things. I teach best what I need to learn most. lol...I am praying for you.
You fall in love with the idealized version of yourself as reflected to you through the narcissist. the narcissist gives you a hefty dose of what it feels like to be him. It is self love like youve never experienced it before and its addictive and you Love It. this is paraphrased from Sam Vaknin When i consider my situation from this perspective I feel a shift.
This, exactly 💯 Knowing this is all person needs to break the spell. Once you realise that you were only feeding your own ego via a hologram of yourself, the game is up.
Yes this is true, but the devalue stage is sooo upsetting it can cause a lot of distress and suicidal thoughts about ourselves.. It's a massive shock 🤯 to our systems hormones and nervous systems to.. It's good to know now though.. 🤯
There is a strong possibility that this video has saved my life. I had been crashing hard for the past few days but after watching this, it is all starting to make sense. Taking responsibility for my part in the shared fantasy is ultimately going to be the foundation of what I hope is a healing process. For now though, after watching this video, I at least have the strength to continue on into tomorrow. Thank you Richard.
Amazing Richard ! I remember once telling to him’ you never showed me who you really are, you didn’t let me be who I really am , so you and I were never met “
@@FirstnameLastname-qt1qn Jesus IS God and made you!You were made to be loved ,but ONLY He can fill that empty void! Watch Randy Kay on you tubeand be blessed and saved!
So true about everything being a game, narcissists are like god's who can rebuild the board game every time you start to win. The only thing you can do is to cut your losses and walk away from the board.
Awesome comment and so true. I’m with one now. I knew I was going to be punished once I revealed the truth. He did. I had another win again and now waiting for the next punishing. But it’s not just the punishing it’s the knocking of your confidence, self esteem , making you feel inadequate on top of this. Very hard indeed.
I agree with this thesis. Once the spell is broken and you see them and they see you seeing them, then the devaluation cranks up. It doesnt work as intended though. The spell once broken is broken. They start to deflate and replacement/discard becomes inevitable.
Absolutely! I recently hit the point of no return with my narc by exposing his lies and deceit in a way he couldn't deny/refute or fix, so he's moved on to my replacement whom he'd been grooming for a while. He had another supply, but she either finally saw him for who he was or got tired of waiting for his false promises to materialize, or she demanded too much and he discarded her. My eyes were finally opened to the cold reality of who he is, and that for 20 years I'd been obsessed with a man who was never real. He's incapable of feeling anything deep because he's an empty vessel, a bottomless empty dark pit.
"The narc doesn't really love you" "You don't love them either" ALSO.....We don't really love ourselves as well. Maybe 'don't respect, admire, or hold our self in high enough regard' would be more accurate.
Can't be in an intimate relationship with a narcissist if you won't accept the narrative of who they are.. This resonates a lot. My ex would always tell me what kind of person she is, and if challenged would say, "that just goes to show you don't really know me."
This makes me think about cultic “mind control techniques” and abusive relationships have been compared to cults in the literature. This is absolutely a thing. Abusive relationships are like two-person cults with one leader and one follower, and the follower hasn’t fully consented to the process because the techniques are very insidiously controlling. Good video!!
I've heard other girls say that sometimes comparing guys they fancy to a celebrity but yeah when i look at them he totally looks different, and then in my head i'm like "why are you comparing every guy to a celebrity? can't you just go and get to know him and accept him for the person he is?" noop still the comparisons, and yes they're doing it even before they start dating someone. Meanwhile there are guys who're convinced every girl will only fall for a guy that looks like a celebrity but i can vouch for the fact it's simply not true looks isn't all there is to it but it's about personality and shared values too.
It took me 8 years and many break ups to Finally see what my ex is. For many years I knew he had some kind of problem. Commitment problem, hating his mother. Insecure, sad, miserable. I’ve never really looked into narcissism. After research and watching lots of videos it all makes sense now. I completely agree with you with living in his fantasy world. If we broke up I never told people the real reason I would give them his reason and make him sound good. You know he’s living about who he is, but if you didn’t follow his life you will be discarded quickly. I knew this deep inside and felt I loved him so much I lived his dream. When we broke up eventually I knew he’d come back. And the addiction I have on him is surreal. The first few months can be horrible. And then finally I wake up. Usually he comes back but he has met somebody else now who has much more supplies then I’m able to do anymore because I just know who he is. There is no healing him.
You are so right ! I felt addicted and thought he was the hottest , coolest human being on this planet ! They hypnotise us and I can’t stop laughing it’s nice to see you being happy and light . Once again thank you 🙏🏼
Given that ALL your videos are the BEST, this is one of the BEST of the BEST! Yes, you are convinced you are in love with them, you can't live without them because they are now a part of you, and instead, after the end, you realize you never loved them because the one you loved never existed. It's a really peculiar thing, because now you realize they you don't even like him, actually, you are disgusted by him and you ask yourself how on earth you could be hypnotized to that point. It really is amazing how our mind works, it can imagine and create feelings and emotions which are not real at all, yet they feel like real to you.
I distinctly remember the day I found your video "20 signs of a CN". A Flood Light of illumination came on & I remember thinking- " OMG!! He freakin rooked me!!" ( aka- conned, hood winked, bamdoozled ) I suddenly realized HE was the "Crazy" one, not Me!! I spoke with my best friend a couple days later & explained what I had learned. She said- I could NEVER figure out WTH you saw in him! He was nothing like the guys you dated before. It was like he "brainwashed" you!" It sounded pretty dramatic at the time, but it's exactly what happened. I allowed him to alter my perception of not only him, but of myself as well. The part that galls me the most is he isnt even that smart!! He is however conniving & deceitful AF. I consider myself a fairly intelligent & savy woman, but he lasered in on my insecurities & twisted me in knots for his own pleasure. Im so glad I finally see him for the weak insecure jerk he really is.
@@cbeachbaby266 Im sorry you can relate to any of this. Unfortunately this post doesnt reflect the full scope of his heinous behavior, but thankfully that is behind me now that I know that his assholery is because of HIS problems, not my "craziness".
Nah not dramatic he totally did hustle you, It's why some of them work on looking so good they're hustlers big time and i've recently come to understand what being hustled really looks like, and what it feels like to then have it switched on me trying to make me think it was just all my fault and made fun of for it being called "drama" it's not great whatsoever. These are the guys momma warns about.
The hook: Did I have to buy into his narrative of who he was? Yes!!! Oh God….the details feel too personal to share on a public forum, but yes. He literally saved my life, but to be saved, I had to make him an actual god. I shared the fantasy for over tHiRtY years. I’m only 2/3 through this video, and you’ve opened so many doors that six years with an apparently incompetent therapist kept firmly shut. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
When my sister and I were little girls, she told me: "tell me what do you want me to tell you so you will love me". Now she is a lot more sophisticated and complex than that, but it is the same game.
That's a great point! Once you realize that you are looking for authentic love, you set boundaries that family usually tell you have too high of standards... Afraid that you'll be alone with such high standards... But what they don't realize is that you are comfortable with it just being you and enjoying your life. And having a healthy partner, though it would be nice, Isn't necessary to be happy 💜
Guys, feelings after the trauma bond and any codependency are steeped in neurosis (its neurotic behaviour), e.g., obsessive thinking, compulsive behaviour (watching narc vids), going in to reaction quickly (fight or flight), fatigue, anger, perfectionism etc. Its all neurotic after these types of relationships because its us trying to have control. The narc hurt you yes, but your neurotic behaviour means you're recreating and living in that moment. Those who have had the wrong kind of conditioning as children are likely to have a proclivity to alot of neurotic thinking. When this neurotic thinking meets narc abuse / a discard its like an atomic bomb exploded in your ego. Your soul is at war with your ego (mind). Learning how to deal with your neurotic behaviour and even just labelling it neurotic, will bring immense relief. I catch the thinking and think of it as me having a thought disorder. Also, the thought that I have a safe space inside myself (my soul) that isn't going through this turmoil, is comforting. This doesn't take away from what the narc did, but it does help me truly focus on myself.
This describes me. My Dad was a little neurotic when I was little and my mother is the malignant narc who just discarded me. What helps you with your neurosis? My Dad passed so now I’m stuck with this nut. Well I’m in no contact mode but I’ve had hallucinations and auditory commands a few times in my life and now that I listen to these videos I wonder if that was because of my mother and some narc bfs. Any advice?
Your post was a aha moment for me. It really and sadly resonated but as you mentioned... in a weird way, it is a release. Thank you... I will have to work it out now.
I have had to look at my own childhood trauma because some of us are living with our own issues from childhood and meeting up with a narcissist only exacerbates our wounds.
That moment that it hit me I didn't truly love him...was such a dizzying moment! I was embarrassed, felt I too was fkn mad. after all the sadistic abuse, it was beyond devastating and a complete mindfuck on top of a mountain of mindfucks. It is absolutely true that I fell in love with a person that wasn't real. I did beliEve I loved Him and opened my heart to him. It felt real but it wasn't. I shared the original "fantasy" of a beautiful and innocent friendship that eventually crushed every boundary. That Isn't LOVE. The lines became so blurred I felt protective of someone who I needed protection FROM. Also not love. I cringe as I remember his false personas. As for His repeated question "Do you know who I Am??" Yes i do. NO CON TACT
Lol...your ex and mine should meet bc they are twins except mine is female. Its bizarre that these people with narcissistic traits are so similar. It truly is...
yeah I couldn't figure out who I was in love with any more. Who is this person. One minute this, one minute that. What? I wouldn't be in love with someone who did that... I really have a lot to deal with in getting better. It's a pattern from childhood. Feeling protective of an abusive parent who didn't protect me.
This makes so much sense. I knew him for three years and never looked twice at him, the moment he wanted me, I fell hard and fast as he became *everything* I always needed and wanted.
This is crazy. Sounds like me although ex narc had been around my family over ten years. We considered him family. I just knew it was destiny. REALLY boy that sh___t hurts. It was a sucker punch☹️☹️☹️
It takes a long time to totally heal. At least I now I am quite happy on my own, to be in any relationship takes so much compromise, and I do not know whether I am prepared to give my freedom away. So I am soo very careful now!!
Here's a love test . Before meeting the narcissist did you care about yourself, have confidence, self-esteem, self control? Were your thoughts crisp and clear? Were you focused and able to handle situations rationally and solve problems? Were you happy, comfortable with yourself and life? Did you love yourself? After being with the narcissist for awhile did those things I mentioned above start to vanish? Did you stop loving yourself? If so, how could you love someone without loving yourself?
It is thanks to Richard that I educated myself. I met someone 3 months after my husband of nearly 30 yrs passed and the bond felt primal. The powers that be took him from this earth unexpectedly 2 years after we met and in all honesty I don't know that I would ever have been able to free myself otherwise, may he RIP. Such was the inexplicable connection, need, obsession for him that I pray I never experience again. Bless you, Richard for your candor and your experience.
I'm so sorry for you dear. I can't even pretend to know how you feel, I've not walked in your shoes. Thing is, you have Jesus waking every step with you. I wish you peace and success in your endeavors! 😇 💔🩹
@@blueeyes6852 thank you so very much. I was a sitting duck after I lost my husband, who was normal, lol, but the loss left me terribly vulnerable. I advise anyone who is grieving to beware. Richard is so spot on and in hindsight I recognised that it was all an illusion I had of the person, though the pain felt was very real unfortunately. It was the pain of losing myself.
Danielle my experience was similar to yours. Primal, that is a perfect description of the toxic relationship I had after my husband's passing. Over the passage of time I have healed from that relationship, as I sincerely hope you have too. I've been following Richard now for some years, the bewilderment I was feeling was explained and the veil was taken from my eyes. Take care Danielle.
They smell vulnerability like a predator, which they are. Mine is "only" borderline. He met me while I was the sole caretaker of a very ill person. Smelled blood, like a fox with a rabbit in a trap.
Brilliant as always, thank you Richard. My ex Narc continues to waltz in and out of my life as a “friend”, love bombing me as “the most important person in his life” and when he does so he always manages to slip in 2 types of comments 1) a comment that touches me and moves me to tears, and 2) a sort of back-handed compliment or strange comment that in the moment I brush off but I find myself a day or two later confused, angry, and feeling low as this little seed of self-doubt he planted has now taken root and is starting to grow. He of course will politely apologize for having moved me to tears, “aww I didn’t mean to make you cry”… uhhh, yeah you did. That was exactly your intention all along. 😕 He wants to induce loving feelings so I chase him. He also has the habit of establishing financial superiority straight away, within mere moments of seeing one another he’ll benchmark what he made last month as some astronomical figure akin to what I make in a year… and he does so to establish the benchmark and use money as a means of control - ex. He wants to buy me a house to live in, but not live with me. And bc he makes so much more than I do, it’s a drop in the bucket for him, no big deal. But practically speaking, that’s a bad deal for me all around. A deal with the devil indeed.
it's like falling in love with a hologram, when you want to delve into something you realize that there really is nothing, and that these 'hollow-feelings' have NO excuse to be developed. It's a decision.
Yes a shared fantasy and boundaries are dissolved. Super insightful and thank you for declaring how sex is absolutely the most intimate, raw, vulnerable thing you can do with another person. I’m really tired of sex being looked at as a nonchalant, everyday exchange. All this does is supply selfishness.
It is no love, we go for the person treat us like mommy or daddy or the combination of both. To recreate the way we felt as a child in our family. Unconscious programming .
Exactly! More people need to learn about this programming. I moved straight from abusive parents to an abusive man. SAME environment, fear, egg -shells, self doubt, putting everyone else first. I didn't exist - only to serve them.
I have just left my ex bf of 8 years, we started dating when I was 16. Coming out of his trance now, I am coming to sooooo many realizations about his fantasy I was trapped in. I would have moments of clarity and he would reel me back in so easily. I stopped being "in love" with him after a couple times of him cheating on me. Yet I felt addicted, and scared to go out into the world and find someone else. Thank you for making me laugh while on my healing journey! I started watching your videos over a year ago when I was ready to leave, yet didn't until a month ago.
"They are emotional button pushing machines" - YEP! Thank you Richard for always vocalising the many elements of my life that I have been blind to, I recognise them INSTANTLY though!! 🙏💞
It is from failure in love and relationships that we really see our own part in it. It has been for my fantasy of authentic love that I grieve. I did learn how to be alone and enjoy my own company living with my ex for 30+ years. I compromised feeling unworthy of love. That’s on me not them. Thank you for your time and attention Richard!
This struck home! I have been tinkering on this subject as well.. Why do I feel these feelings for someone who I actually don't like anything about. He has nothing going for him and still he makes me feel inferiour. But this really explains it all. And also, how I confused the anxiety I felt around him, thinking that was a love reaction
I agree my relationship for 8 years on and off was more hoping and fantasizing than an actual relationship He kept me in that limerance/lust/crush and "what could it be" than intimacy. At the end of day he wanted me to fawn, to worship and be addicted to him. Last time I saw him he told me that
The fact that you are here and got through something like this, that many of the rest of us found you and got through things like this... is a big white pill ♡
The only time I experienced obsession was when I got attached to narcissists who didn't reciprocate my feelings. Now whenever I feel something like that, it's a massive red flag. It makes me consider what they have done to induce this state in me. Normally it is from blowing hot and cold, boosting me up and then suddenly criticising me. I once met a girl who told me that no man had ever rejected her, and that all her ex's were obsessed with her and heartbroken. She'd latch on to me, make me feel special, then suddenly hit me with extremely harsh criticism. I somehow ended up seeing her as a goddess and me as this loser who wasn't good enough for her. It really felt real at the time, but now it seems so silly. What woke me up, was seeing her do the same thing to other guys and I realised she wasn't so special, just good at pushing certain buttons.
I always have said, “you can’t love someone who does not love you back”, but what I am struggling with is the confusion of believing I was loved (at least for the majority of a 2.5 year relationship) until the last few months and then ultimately hearing “I love you, but I am not in love with you”. It makes me question the entire relationship. So now what helps the tiniest bit is that I don’t want to be with someone who does not love me 100% (or who does not love me back). It is just so hard to let go of something you thought was real. It’s sad, disappointing and so confusing. But- you gave the best advice I’ve heard yet in a recent video: “You can’t sincerely communicate with an insincere person…walk away”. That will stay with me FOREVER! Truly. Not being insincere here (pun not intended-at least at first. lol). I just stumbled upon your TH-cam channel - You have made me smile amidst much sadness and confusion …thank you
Absoloutely agree. I entered into his fantasy and therefore I never got my needs met. I convinced myself I loved him when I on a daily basis knew I didn’t even like him. What’s that song… You made me Love you I didn’t wanna do it, I didn’t wanna do it. You made me fall in Love and all the time you know it! This is the shared fantasy anthem! Thank you Richard, I needed to hear and realise this. And as ever your humour makes the enlightenment a joy! Xx
I think that is something i'm going to say to myself from now on "I'm about to enter into this fantasy, but i won't get my needs met" as a kind of warning and mental note about what i'd be in for.
A few song lyrics spring to mind. Winona Oak "that wasn't love, that wasn't love; that was just hope", Lana Del Rey "hope is a dangerous thing for a woman like me to have" and a clip of Halsey saying you shouldn't fall for the person who makes you feel like flying, anxious, gives you butterflies. It should be who makes you feel grounded and safe. Not that I'm for Hollywood starlets, just throwing out some other ways people have framed these ideas. Thanks for this, I will definitely mull on it for a few days further.
@@tashmoobabe8704 Absolutely! You need to feel completely whole and grounded in and of yourself first of all, you can never rely on someone else for that. I mean to say more, that those who make you feel anxious can be your bodies unconscious sign of danger, a helpful red flag.
@@tashmoobabe8704 It's true. I didn't feel butterflies at first or nothing like that. They will sell you the illusion of what you want/need, for me it was support/caring, someone who was there for me and could just hug and tell me "Don't worry. You can rest. i won't let anyone hurt you". But then the push pull game started, he knew safety and emotional stability was what i wanted and needed to he started to withdraw. At any moment he would let me fall, at any moment he would slam the door, making me aware that my existence was just a transition. I was never going to be part of his life, he kept on living his life and i was like a videogame he would press "start" whenever he wanted to live the fantasy, and then left me on the shelf, on the floor , whatever. Sam Vaknin has a video on this about "shared fantasy, your role" (not the one about the borderline/narc fantasy) and he explain exactly this, even uses the videogame as example. How they promise intimacy, future goals but then don't deliver and the partner starts to demand what was promised, it's when the narc feels offended and that the fanstasy isn't working anymore. Because he wants the playmate/mother to provide sex/services/supply, but he doesn't want to deliver what he promised, he will only give what he feels like. In my case would be random gifts or stuff for the apartment i didn't ask for, even the gifts weren't something that i liked (like clothes, shoes) but i would accept cause it was if gift, to make him happy. "I won't give you what you want and I promise but here's a new bag because you deserve to be happy"
@@Sarablueunicorn Man that promise of the future is the one that hits the hardest. Cos when they leave it feels like the world is over, your future ruined, grey, empty. They give you false hope through it, a fantasy to make you committed and blind. As you say, it's all a ploy, he probably did it to every girl before me, and will do it to every one after. You're right, although butterflies can be a sign, there are many ways these slime operate.
"You can never (truly) love a person who never lets you know them" aka a person who is not a whole person but a false-fronted narcissist. Truth. All interactions in that "arrangment" are then by definition compensatory, & reactionary, as opposed to genuine & proactive.
What you said at the end was bang on, "it's more akin to a teenage crush on a pop star than it is to real authentic love that can last". That's what they're going for anyway, adoration, not the real thing that requires the capacity to put someone else ahead of themselves.
Before I ever found you or Sam Vaknin while searching frantically to find out what was wrong with me, I felt and believed that I had been mesmerized. I used those actual words early on. No one believed me or had a clue why I was such a wreck. I literally went from being uncomfortable around my psychopath (formally clinically diagnosed) to being totally enraptured with him, feeling like I could sprout wings and fly because he loved me too. I do not know how or when the discomfort turned to such insane desire for the relationship. I literally have no memory of the switch or when it happened. It seems like a reaction to two different people but it all happened quickly and I know for certain the mesmerization in some way was real. It was amazing until it wasn’t, about a month after he moved in with me it was like he was someone else and so my journey into madness began. When I found you and Sam the videos at first sent ice water through my veins, it was that real and spot on. Finally it all began to make sense. Thank you for all you do.
The love of an empath with a narcissist is the magnetic polarised love, the meeting of plus (+) with minus (-). It is not a love based on similarities, that is the plus(+) with plus (+) as in empath+empath or minus with minus love (narc+narc). The magnetic love is attractive and deep but it has low compatibility while the similarities love is harmonious, balanced and based on mutual understanding. Choose wisely !
Its hard to hear but what Richard is saying is true. After all, the narcissist cant love themselves and therefore cant really 'love' anyone else. When I would be away on business trips and experience moments of clarity, I would think: he doesnt really love me and i dont think i really love him- but you get back home - the shared fantasy game starts to play again and you're off on another cycle. These videos are enormously helpful. I know i'm not crazy
The first time I was introduced to recovery of domestic violence it was explained to me that I was playing a role in this relationship. It was only years later I understood I was involved in a codependent/narcissistic toxic relationship.
❤️ Thank you God - you exist Mr Granon , your ways of explaining things are just perfect . I follow you 4 years now -- I’ve learned a LOT. I’m stronger, empowered and I have very nice relationship with myself 😌 thank you for being here and God bless you dear ❤️🤗😎😎😎
Hi Richard. I'm sorry that you've gone through another relationship with a personality disordered user. But I think the good thing is that you realized it and left. That's self love and shows good mental health. Because from everything that I've heard. So called "normal" people can attract them also. They simply don't stay and engage for long periods of time. Because they love themselves and feel they deserve better. And because they sense there's something really wrong there, and they're not patterned to think that normal behavior. They see it much quicker as squirrely behavior. And once they see that, they also don't excuse and rationalize their behavior. And luckily that's healthy behavior we all can adopt, even if we've had screwed up childhoods. Dana Morningstar put it so well when she said, you want a partner, not a project. Because of your recent experience though with a narcissist. I'm glad that this type of video is back for those who need it. Your early videos where you'd use references to movies and books to illustrate what we've gone through, truly helped me understand deeply what I'd experienced and heal. I appreciate that so much, thank you. Just hearing you talk about things for an hour in your videos was always helpful for me. Now I consider myself healthier, but I do still watch some of your videos to keep the information fresh in my mind. Keep a healthy vigilance against being used again. I understand what you mean when you say we never really loved the narcissist. It's because we never actually knew them. Because there isn't a "them" or a "self" there to love and know. But, WE'RE real, and we do love. Having lived with that type of person for many years in a marriage. I will say that though it's true I never really knew him, I was fooled by him and his "acting." I did love the person I thought I knew, his well crafted facade. And that seemed like some of the best qualities we crave in people. So we DO love the qualities we THOUGHT we were involved with. They just didn't actually exist in the person we were with. We are capable of love, bonding and caring, and becoming genuinely attached to a person. We just didn't realize, and it's not our fault, that in this case, there isn't a person there. But that shouldn't negate our love, our ability to love, it's what sets us apart from them. And if we find someone else capable of love and healthy bonding, we can then actually have a loving relationship. Because it's genuinely reciprocated. I don't subscribe to the belief that we're damaged for life and can't have a healthy relationship. We simply have to change our ways and learn to have shields and healthy distance for much longer in the "courting" phase (to use an old school term) for protection. We can't "fall" in love, or "leap before we look." We have to use good sense. I'm glad this information is finally out there and free for anyone seeking it. My only regret is that I didn't have it before I went through that long term very bad relationship/marriage to someone who was basically an actor in all of life. When Richard says they are watching us and adjusting their performance to get what they want from us. That really is a very different way to live, from how we live our lives. And as he and others have said, the main protection is to go incredibly slow. No matter how much your heart wants to go galloping in, trusting all the way. Don't become involved till you know who you're actually becoming involved with. And if you realize oh no it's another personality disordered person, you leave this time. Sure we wish it would never happen again, but it can. We just have to be prepared for it going in. If you're not prepared to be alone again, because you feel too needy and are afraid of that feeling. Then don't date yet, you're not ready and you WILL attract another person who will use that against you. Work on yourself till your peace of mind and soul, your self love, is more important that anyone else telling you they love you. Then they have no leverage, you can leave, you are free. We are only imprisoned in this kind of relationship, by ourselves. So therefore, simply, we are the only ones who can free ourselves from them. If we think this is a more modern phenomenon with these personality disordered people. Then I recommend to any of you reading this comment, either read the book from 1811, or watch a modern version of Jane Austen's "Sense and Sensibility." Or read the book "Before and After: The Incredible Story of the Real-Life Mrs. Wilson," which took place in the 1940's. Or watch the Masterpiece Theater version of it, called simply "Mrs. Wilson." Both of these stories are from the distant past. But still show that people can get involved with liars and users and it takes an incredible toll on us. It can even cause us to want to die for a while. It's nothing new for sure, probably as long as there's been mankind, there's been these disordered people causing pain and havoc. It's up to us to learn and change accordingly. I wish everyone here the best going forward. You deserve the best and love. 😊
I heard a lot of "I'm a good person."(speaking about himself) And "You LOVE me" type stuff from the last narc. Honest people don't have to remind you of their own good(actually false) traits like that.
Totally agree. Its not just lust. Its bonding at the cellular level. I cant tell you how many times ive layed in bed late at night in tears asking God to please help my heart let go. Intellectually my head got it, even on some emotional level i had disengaged. But there was some aspect of me internally that remained connected to him. It was so hurtful and frustrating. ...and I do feel like each of our 'inner children' bonded with each other- hard core, and I do feel like we are still bonded- not intellectually, or emotionally, but the best way to describe is cellularly/ ancestral or something of the sort. Im working on strengthening my boundaries, identifying the fantasy and letting it go. Rewriting the truth- just like one fluffs and shakes out the wrinkles in their blanket when making their bed. Why do I feel like I still love him after everything he's done? Ive talked about this with my therapist a lot. I fucked up. I abandoned myself and became his slave. Im sad about that. Im so sorry I did that to myself. In the beginning I told him I just wanted to be good to him. That was the truth. I just got sucked in. I believed him and got sucked in. Gave him the benefit of the doubt. Trusted him more than i trusted myself. That is the cardinal sin. Peace. 🕊️
Initially I was “in love” with who I thought he was and who he initially portrayed. But with time, (we were together off and on for 10 years) I began to understand who he really was….. and I still loved him. He was abusive in every way when he felt like being that way, and sweet as can be other times. I should have left with the physical abuse and for some reason DID NOT! I researched his behavior A LOT and quite honestly could predict things that happened. I once told him, “I think I know you better than you really know yourself”. This made him angry!! I really do think I truly loved him. With each time we got back together he had “reinvented” himself and I could see through all that bullshit to the man I loved. I hope this makes sense.
I really did give everything I was capable of to "love" in the relationship. But, I would sometimes say to myself "what am I doing? He's not any of the things I should love." Then, I wouldn't answer myself and go back into "the shared fantasy space".
I was in exactly the right space to watch and hear this video. Everything item rang completely true to my experience and the "A-ha" moments piled up. This was exactly what I needed to hear. I want to preach it from the mtn tops. Thank you so much for introducing these new ideas and how they work in these relationships. While it's not 100%, I feel much more empowered to let go and do what I need to do to move on. I will slip backwards I believe but I'm on the right path. Thank you!
Yes. This describes my experience with two different narcissists. Full and complete fantasy on my part. And I KNEW it. I witnessed it as an observer as I engaged in it. The fantasy felt safer than the real thing (my own trauma issues) and it did create a high. I did not consider myself a victim because I knew it wasn't real and engaged anyway. The feels were big and dramatic because of the fantasy. 100% teenager with a celebrity crush. And when their masks slipped I saw them clearly and got out out. Thankfully I woke up. But I still have issues to work out. Self worth and self forgiveness are key. Thank you for your videos. They're the best I've come across.
✨Thank you for this video!! My narc husband soon to be ex got delivered divorce papers yesterday. But I’m still missing “him” or the thought of him. Then I remind myself who I was before I met him and now how many health issues I have for not listening to my intuition 4 years ago. Married for three. The love bombing and romance right away hooked me! So I def have been looking within why I took part in all of this.
The shared fantasy resonates. I was looking through photos 9months in and was shocked to see what she actually looked like. I had a completely different picture in my head. As soon as I saw this every interaction made me feel uneasy. I ended it 1week later. 5months on she’s still stalking and baiting me on Social media 😂
Yes spot on. I felt as if I had met my soul mate, a meeting of minds and of course, of bodies too. I was totally obsessed, thinking about him most of my waking hours, jumping up in the middle of the night checking my emails. This was a long distant relationship, the long gaps between "trysts" filled with hundreds of emails. After 8 years of this rollercoaster, I killed the relationship, although he had already discarded it and was as I suspected moving on to the next person. Guess what, this summer 9 years later, he comes knocking on my door, and what did I feel, nothing. I saw him for what he was. Have I experienced mutual love and respect for someone, yes indeed, my late husband who was part of my life for 20 years before he died. What we had was respectful, authentic and yes started with passion which then evolved into a loving caring relationship, with the ups and downs that occur in family life. Even when I was in the toxic relationship I sensed that it wasn't authentic. I suspect that the nature of the relationship being long distance spared me the worst of the psychological cruelties. It saddens me that I betrayed my husbands memory.
Funnily enough it was through the relationship with the narcissist that I experienced how to love someone truly and be in a relationship. I learnt that my love is very strong and I’m a wonderful partner. Obviously it was all taken for granted and proved they didn’t deserve it. But thanks to them now I know what really loving someone is. I just want that same back in future!
I just love your humor as I can relate to a lot!!! They are also in my experience cowards when you draw the line and struggled to get him out of my house. So the final day he had been to get out, he committed suicide!! Fuck that gave me ptsd 6 months later that made me so sick. So now very careful!!
Yes, whether looking back one calls intense emotions induced, button-pushing or directly intense emotional experiences, going through love bombing and a rapid switch to abuse creates intense experiences and an emotional addiction loop. Also, within the last year, I heard Sam say that the narcissist manipulates the co-dependent into falling in love with themselves not with the narcissist. There's a truth bomb that can be painful to contemplate. Even looking at the convoluted syntax of the sentences I'm writing, the hall of mirrors nature of this topic, the mind in action and the mind in it's deep nature stares back at me from the page. Mature adult love, it seems to me, is by contrast, frequently sprinkled with sacrifice, awkward moments, emotional alone time of biting one's tongue, taking one for the team or simply being patient & waiting to get yours (or something or anything) until later or never. Rewards are infrequently intense, never regular and the sensation of the relationship is felt more like a slight elevation of daily life and rather close to the daily grind. That's why it's said that Shakespeare had contempt for Romeo and Juliet. Their behavior is foolish not romantic. But readers & audiences across the ages have suffered childhood abuse, crave meaning & heightened states and find intense expression in these exaggerated relationships. Deep breath, once again, let it go. Thank Richard. You continue to on fire, lobbing your truth bombs for the betterment of all who care. I'm off now to swim for 3 hours in a swim clinic. Started swimming during the 3o day challenge last year. Life changing for the much better. Thank you very much!
I agree totally with these concepts. I didn't love them, but the dream of us we orchestrated, the future, the fairies. We need the hope/fantasy, but the hope is also the downfall glossing over all the boundaries crossed. It's why life is such a difficult balance as you say; you can't lose the fantasy or you'll go mad, but you can't live fully in the fantasy or you'll equally go mad. The middle path. Loving with boundaries.
Love relationships are meant to be more about the heart space with the childlike wonder and creativity~ That's the spark that fuels passion and zest for Living~ You can have this with Nature, animals, and a Whole person who has done inner work~~
loving somebody is a skill is one of the truest things I have heard. we need to objectively assess if others have the requisite awareness and desire to put in the effort necessary in honing that skill. no bad blood and finger pointing. it's as simple as this person cannot offer me what I am looking for and move on. just make sure you aren't emotionally starving and you won't fall in their trap 👌 go adopt a cat 🤗
Dear Richard, thank you for putting a name on this. I've been struggling for a couple of weeks with this contradiction: victimization (whether in myself or in others) irritates me, yet I often default to feeling victimized because I find some sort of safety in it. I was stuck with this problem until I saw this video, then I understood that because my mom's default state is that of victim I now see that I entered her fantasy in order to keep the bond with her. Now that it has a name it's so much easier to let it go, what a relief! Thanks again for doing this research and sharing it. take care!
It's quite normal to spot guilt, shame or anxiety when I see it but when it comes to love and relationships how does one trigger love from another , what tactics is one really using is it what they say or do
Yes when u have been affected by a narcissist (or sociopath) the trauma you are left with makes it hard to know what is real after that. Then you dont know if what you are picking up psychically is real or is then just demonic attack through the actual traumatic damage. I get you.
There is a happiness that comes over you when you discover the truth, and a funniness of how it let you effect you so much. I'm glad you are in a good mood
Superb video. Should be compulsory viewing for teenagers at school. Absolutely nailed what I've been doing - that's for sure. I was adopted as a baby and had a grim fear-filled childhood full of emotional and physical abuse. Every 'romantic' relationship I had prior to therapy was abusive and I unwittingly invited those abusers into my life because of two key reasons. Firstly, I used sex to achieve closeness. I had no idea I was doing this because I thought I was just enjoying sex but I can see so clearly now that I was using physical proximity and physical boundary breaking as a way of being close to another human being. Secondly, my deep and unconscious abandonment terror (it was bigger than fear) drove me to fantasy bonding that only existed in my own mind. I stuck with unpleasant and cruel people but kidded myself that we were in loving relationships. I felt what they wanted me to feel, I did what they wanted me to do and in my fantasy this meant that we were partners and in love. It was pure fantasy BUT if you had told me that prior to therapy I would have defended my reality to the death & would have thought that you were blind and deluded and unable to understand me. I'm still not 100% confident of my abilities to properly get the measure of people, so now I go very slowly - painfully slowly, although possibly not by more healthy people's standards but definitely by my own. Slowing down gives me time to let the other person reveal themselves and not to be blinded by all those amazing feel-good chemical hormones or my own fantasies because my fantasies had to be entered into at speed and without analysis - obviously duh! ;-)
Great talk! Maybe the best I've ever heard on how these particular relationships go off the tracks, in terms of the amount of fantasy they contain. The crash from them is horrible. The only way to avoid the crash is to get into another relationship with another narc, and perpetuate the cycle. I did this most of my adult life, until the last one with a covert narc threw me into an insane downward spiral. I still have to deal with this person on an almost daily basis, because we have a kid together. If I had not come across your videos right after we broke up a few years ago, I don't think I would have been able to manage co-parenting with this person at all. Still healing from it 5 years later, and still unable to conduct a functional intimate relationship. But, still watching your videos and keeping myself in check. Thanks for everything you do for us broken people out here who'd be seriously screwed without your help. I don't have many heroes. But, you are certainly one of them!
Thank you Richard, This is exactly the type of feeling that I’m trying to accept now. Cognitively, I completely understand what my ex was and is, but emotionally I’m not there. I can accept that he didn’t feel anything, doesn’t have memories of things we did in the same way I did (or at all), but I’m wondering how the recovering person thinks of/processses those times. I wrote in my journal that he is no “time capsule “- meaning there is no feeling, memory, or acknowledgment of everything we did, shared, etc... it’s as though I did all of those things and lived all those years by myself. This is heartbreaking for me and it feels like I’ve lost the last 25 years with a robot. How does one get through these feelings in the waste of that much time? How does one come to accept this? Thank you for so much important and down-to-earth/useful information.
That's exactly how I feel about my last relationship, largely based on everything she said as it was ending and thereafter. Lots of devaluing of me, reframing the relationship as one where she was a victim just putting up with me, saying she only ever loved me because of how I supported her (I mean wtf does that even mean?), how she only cheated as an excuse to break up with me, but at an earlier point saying she cheated not because she was lonely (we were apart for a few months at the time) but 'just' needed the validation. And despite seemingly admitting all of this narcissistic behaviour, trying to label me as the toxic one.
Just as guilty...I agree with this 100%. As any semblance of love and respect seeped out of my marriage to a man with high narcissistic traits, I became just as selfish and false as him, though it manifested differently. I eventually sank to vindictive depths I wouldn't have thought possible. So glad to be free and becoming more self aware and resilient daily, which also involves owning my part. Thank you Richard for giving it to us straight as always.
I did this too and almost got arrested for sending him hate mail. Sometimes it’s the only way to disconnect the trauma bond. No more. I’m above that I agree with you.
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
This one is 32 minutes long.
0:00 my apology for 2 things in this video
2:00 WHY you never REALLY loved the narcissist
2:46 the obsession you feel is false
4:15 I asked Sam Vaknin and he said "my name is Sam Vaknin"
th-cam.com/video/luegzfzClCY/w-d-xo.html
5:00 the Shared Fantasy of relationships and the Blue Pill
7:07 Key word is "shared"
9:00 your sharing a sick fantasy, poisoned chalice
9:45 OF COURSE THEY INDUCE EMOTIONS!
10:44 Narcissist as Inverted Human/Mirror/Sauron
11:50 you are consenting to the sharing
12:15 Narcissist as "reaction cultivating machine"
13:24 Assume you feel the way they want you to feel
14:35 Funny story about Sean Connery lookalike
16:50 WE are submerged in THEIR fantasy of themselves
18:30 look at the hook, did you fuse with them?
19:10 The Narcissistic Contract in essence
20:10 what to do if you get angry with yourself during therapy
21:22 Chapter 2
22:30 I didnt love them like I thought
23:50 shared fantasy space is still there when its over
25:00 even therapy is a shared "game"
25:30 its a game of worship, not love
26:00 NOT everyone has the capacity to love
27:10 we LEARN to love through failing at the endeavour
28:20 Final point: you cant love someone you dont know
29:00 "the teenage crush on a popstar"
29:40 not in love, but lust - is bullshit
30:25 Nunu tingle
31:40 Narcissism rule: dominance or nothing
@Richard...Sharing in their fantasy and thinking you love/loved them ... hmm interesting. Its really all about the narc the people around them are just their to massage their ego and make them look good. I used to think I couldn't survive without mine but staying with him was killing me. Finally getting some goodness back in my life. Its been a hell of a long road and not sure I ll ever recover fully!!! I used to be so bubbly and fun but now I am unsure of myself, and introverted and quiet, I don't even speak much to anyone anymore. Is it EVEN POSSIBLE TO RECOVER FULLY AFTER NARC ABUSE?
4:15
C3P0 golden
I seriously agree with this. It’s funny now, i was even actually told in words by a person that I was head over heels for that person…it struck me odd then, and I see it in whole different nuances today than I was able to at that time. And I did want the fantasy I was being presented with, which put me in a position of needing to keep finding ways to uphold that. Exploring what that fantasy was for me, and why it was a thing, and creating a much more mature version of what I’d call love has helped me immensely.
I think it’s great to have fantasy elements in it, but there’s a gigantic difference between having a fantasy castle and trying to stuff bits of reality into the rooms inside that thing, and having a nice home made up of reality into which ya put a few fantasy elements on a sofa table lol. Two very different things.
It is not true, I loved ex-cerebral narcissist!
I suspect one reason people think the narcissist is a famous person (Angelina, Sean Connery, Johnny Depp) is that the narcissist has cloned those actors' personas and is projecting that image out to their targets. So it's not about similar looks it's that the narcissist is emulating the character traits of the famous star which they present as their false self.
I remember having a revelation in the relationship with my narc-ex. I thought I adored him, thought and felt I loved him deeply...then one day, I realised it was just an unhealthy obsession and that actually, I didn't even really like him as a person. I could see him for who he really was. I remember seeing the silhouette of his back in bed next to me during the night and a voice in my head saying "I don't want you here". It surprised me but it came from deep within and was something I had not allowed myself to acknowledge prior to then.
I had that revelation, too.
Took me another year to leave, though.
This was so much like my experience,l wasnt in love with him ,l didn't even like him anymore ,l didnt even like the look of him.
@mz. white the attachment is the hardest thing ,l thought l was healed and completely over him,Christmas has been difficult but lve got through it.l'll listen to my gut next time ,never going through this nightmare ever again
@@Catlady2020 the thought of my BPD/NPD/histrionic ex makes me puke in my mouth a little - there is NOTHING at all attractive about her as a person, esp when i see her continuing to lie and manipulate everyone around her.
Yep...same...I resonate with what you say about, "I don'twant you here"... I would go over to my ex's place and while laying there, I would pan the room, with that deep surfacing question, "What am I doing here still". My nervous system was sooooo fakked up...I didn't even recognize myself.
We fall in love with the way they made us feel when they were love bombing us. It’s actually an ego issue. We want to be special to them. The exception.
Eerily accurate
Yes my ego wanted to try and be the exception. For my ego and i think i love the game
@@Joanjett1013 exactly. You have to want to stop playing it
@Sasha Friedman I would think that is not the same dynamic at all but there are probably similar roots. you were just a child. And every child should feel special to their mom. As a mom I make sure both my kids feel the same amount of love from me even if I deal with them differently according to their needs/personality... they never EVER have to question if they are special to me.
@Sasha Friedman you deserved better as a child. I wish every kid could get what they need. The world would be less sick. I’m sorry you had to go through that BS. you are worthy of love. 😇
Really, first time in my life I experienced a hardcore narcissist after being single for 5 years. I was with him for 3 years but looking back...I just ignored my intuition,please listen to your body or you can get sick. I really knew something wasn't right. Very well explained.
Yeah you and me both!!!
the moment I viewed the relationship as the addiction it was, I started to wake up out of the shared fantasy
All true: Looking back, he really was NOT attractive, barely adequate sexually and I really did not love him as I thought I did. Oh, I loved him intensely, but the purity of that love - that came from and comes from ME - he was never worthy of. I still have it for someone who deserves it, mostly..ME❤️
Well said!!!
They put people under a spell. I still can't believe how manipulative they are. I have dealt with several in my life and they literally all have the ability to make me so angry. It's a sign to remember. They go straight for the juggler no mercy on the daily. It was hard to let go of the fantasy of finding the love of my life. Now I am like omg what was I thinking! When did my standards sink so low!
@@Adam-xs3ng exactly 💯. It's a painful experience. It's tough to know that you were completely fooled. The farther away, the better and the only way to do that is no contact!
That's part of the game.
We create and give an emotion they cant create or give
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I agree with this Richard. These dynamics are not “love” or “lust” it’s something else. It’s something childlike.
This is absolutely how it is. When the mask slipped I felt as though he wasn't real at all, and that I'd made him up in my head. And now from a distance I also see that the love I felt was also not real, I made that up too. All of it is such a head fuck, firstly the pain, trauma and mental exhaustion from being in the eye of the storm. Then when you make it out the other side, the fact that you allowed this to happen to yourself, that you made this person up, that the love you felt was artificially induced and not real, that they saw you as an object and not a person is also a head fuck. Recovery feels like climbing Everest snakes and ladders style. I do have longer periods of being ok now before slipping back, and each time not falling quite so far before scrambling back up. It's a hell of a climb though. I think the overwhelming feeling during and after the relationship is one of unreality, it's really discombobulating.
Perfectly said!!!
Bless your heart. When I tell you this is my healing process. Same thing, just when you think you have beat this thing you have a setback. Like you said each time it gets easier 🦾🦾🦾🦾🦾🦾🦾🦾
It’s three months since I ended the three year relationship. Am I prolonging the head fuck he caused by watching endless TH-cam videos about narcissists?
@@curiousnetty534 These videos has gotten the me through so many days, I have lost count. Reminds of the evil I left and fight to heal!!!!
@@curiousnetty534 Maybe, maybe not. If it is teaching you the reality of the nature of the person you had a relationship with and is helping you to better understand the twisted dynamic and that it is not your fault; and finally you are aware so that you can avoid allowing this kind of person into your life again and teaches you about installing firm boundaries, then watch. But if the watching becomes obsessive and you are still going over and over the same ground in the years to come then it's not healthy. I didn't even know these people existed until it happened to me and wanted to learn all I could. As a result I am now really interested in psychology and watch relevant content that spans all aspects rather than focusing in on narcissism constantly. I'm learning about myself, how I tick how other people tick, what's dysfunctional and so on. Sometimes narcissism is in the subject and the rest of the time I'm looking at things like social anxiety, mental health disorders, personality types and so on. There's some amazing content available including Richard's as well as some awful content. You have to be discerning. I hope you are on your way to recovery, it was for me a re-occuring cyclical head fuck for years. It's waning, the spaces between lengthening, I feel that I've been fine for over 6 months and counting now. I know the pain will be revisited again at some point but each time the duration gets shorter and the intensity less. I suffer from terrible insomnia, but my nights used to be full of the most painful torment, now, although awake my head is not filled with him or what he did and my heart not full of emotional torment. Now everything feels quiet and peaceful when I am wide awake at 3am, the incessant chatter surrounding that time in my life has ceased. I do actually feel at peace around it all now but it's been a bloody long haul, mostly my fault as I kept breaking no contact; no contact really is the only way to excise the fuckers. Good luck. x
I agree. You can’t love someone you don’t know. But I disagree…it’s not up, up, up…then down. It’s up and down all the time. When the mask fell I definitely didn’t love who I briefly saw. The trauma bonding just makes it feel so intense and keeps you hooked. It’s an addiction.
Exactly right.
My ex-husband so much like my Dad. It felt comfortable, what I was used to. We have been back together 5 months after 3 year break. Time to get out again.
@@linderloulou we are drawn to what is familiar. I am finding this out too.
You are the ONLY person you know.
You never love a narcissist
because you never know them.
That one statement riveted me.
I need time to evaluate that.
Thank you for sharing your insights.
Reminds me of in the bible when people were saying "but Jesus, didn't we cast out demons in your name?" And he says to them, the narcissists, "I never knew you." Satan was the original narcissist imo. And the bible points out narc behavior. "Have nothing to do with such people." I'm not religious in any sense, but that's because I think these teachings have been manipulated by *gasp* narcissists. The real teachings are in there when you wake up out of the spell.
@Peggy Robertson Then we have to Realize we was in Love Nobody and that Nobody didn't even Love themselves, and turns out they was Ghost and a Wolf in Sheep's Clothing.
Yes, this is my recently realized frustration...I "loved" an illusion, a deception, an image. When realizing it was a lie, my "love" was rapidly replaced by grief then disgust and contempt, as well as embarrassment and anger at having been so easily deceived. A strong boundary of no contact has helped the healing process. And also helpful is a firm long-term belief that no true love can exist in an atmosphere of deception & lies and control & manipulation. True love requires truth and freedom. That there are those who are false makes the existence of those who are true that much more precious.
You are right about the lust thing. I never felt lust for the narcissist after he abused me. I still loved him and craved that from him and that's why I stayed because I still had hope. But lust? No. Being intimate with him actually made me kinda sick.
Yeah, me too. After the sexual abuse I couldn’t be naked anymore. I needed to sleep alone, with lots of clothes on. I even have problems being naked for a bath…
My ex used to say resentfully, "I love you more than you love me," and "I do more for you than you do for me," and "It's hard loving you, but worth it" ( the last he even wrote in a Valentine's card). They were all meant as insults - YOU'RE NOT LOVING ME ENOUGH AND I'M GOING TO LOTS OF TROUBLE LOVING YOU. In reality, he was quite uncaring of my feelings and I was going out of my way to tend to his needs. Loving you is a chore to them . You're just there to worship them.
Mine would say to me "Can you buy yourself a birthday/christmas/etc. present or do I have to?"
So true. I got told excessively that he knew me better than I knew myself, and my feelings weren't real. The arrogance and craziness of it all is so bizarre.
That person likely had methods of adjusting your emotions thus adjusting your thoughts.
Those are common lines to get you to doubt yourself - which allows greater control.
Bizarre that is so true!
Yes! Only HE knew me...and we believe them.
HIS feelings were nog real, your feelings were.
First off, this is better than any stand up comedian I've listened to in aaaages! Honestly, Richard you are hilarious - I've lost count of the times I've burst into laughter in a public place (alone, headphones on, walking by the river/in a park/wherever) and felt so connected to and understood by a like minded individual who totally gets the deeply destructive pain of narcissistic abuse - as well as the utter ridiculousness of the whole dynamic/dance/bond which ensues in these partnerships. I don't mean to diminish in any way the suffering inflicted by a narcissist - I am currently processing and healing from emotional abuse from a highly narcissistic partner and seriously struggling just to get out of bed each day. But I would like to add something to Richard's view that we never really love the narcissist (because essentially, they don't exist but rather, they project a false self to the world). And it is this: we (our authentic selves), are never really discarded/devalued/unloved by the narcissist ... because they never really knew us - they never saw, perceived, heard or understood us. Why? For two reasons: firstly, because they didn't have the capacity or desire to really know us as separate, individual beings with agency; and secondly, because they HAD to reject and inevitably discard us because we mirrored THEIR toxic behaviours and their insecurities. Add to this the fact that they are fuelled by an abject fear of emotional intimacy (aka being 'found out' for who they really are) and you're on the train to emotional punchbagville. Currently, I'm on the path of trying to own my part in the shared fantasy, which involves forgiving myself and understanding that my part in the 'bargain' came from a place of open heartedness, trust and authenticity....oh, and no doubt some childhood wounds.. Sending love and light to all :o)
It's taken me nearly all my younger sister's life to love her. But it's not love as usually defined. If I can forgive myself for walking into the abuse repeatedly (and probably more to come), I can forgive her for whatever created the mess over there. And not in a warm fuzzy way there, either. You don't "forgive" the tiger for biting your arm off. You don't offer the other one. You get a whip before you step into that cage. You choose not to do it today. You choose to love yourself even if you can't tame tigers. You leave tigers in the jungle. And you learn what love really is, leaving it alone to process itself. Getting your needs, however mundane, met otherwise without drama. Peace out!
It is an inherent human (maybe merely mammal) need to be seen, acknowledged, accepted. That is the core wound so many of us try to heal by trying to get this from (another) one (other than the one who inflicted the original wound). So not being seen in itself is toxic and at the same time can be highly addictive, as one keeps trying in vain to be seen by the one who has no eyes (or heart) with which to see...
Phoenix Fire, very insightful. The underlying absolutely painful thing is that when you understand all of this, it hurts because in your (my) mind I was open and honest and only trying to be loved by another. It's rejection, even if it came from someone like that. Getting over that is another thing. Richard helps immensely, though...
Thank you 4 those ADD-ON insights!
A-fucking-men to ALL of this
The narc I lived with and 'loved' really was a figment of my imagination. I filled in all the gaps and was blind to the reality. I created him in my mind. Eventually the illusion fell away as he became more and more abusive and 'absent' and I could no longer deny what I was feeling. In a way he woke me up to my real feelings which I had never experienced- except for fear because I was raised by a violent narc and a Borderline Narc mother. When the WTF moments came I see they were essential to me waking up and started me questioning my childhood and who I really was. Took 30 years though. LOL! Education is the key. This channel is so important to that aim.
Same...26yrs. Im in the process of the legal stuff now. Im totally exhausted. I come back to these videos of people I trust to ground me and keep me moving forward. One day I'll be free, and frankly im learning what that means to me now.
@@MelissaGenXNews Absolutely!
@@emp9413 YEP!
@@sandrad2597 Be strong! I know that exhaustion. At least you know who and what you are dealing with. I had no clue when I divorced and played into his narc. script which wasted so much time and caused so much stress. As Richard says minimum contact. Wish I had know this. Ha
EXACTLY! Well said!
I was a codependent narcissist. I was always looking at my own reflection in their eyes; i was in love with being loved. When i finally dropped this pursuit of reflection, there was nothing there.. I wasn't even a real person, no real values but just a shell. I didn't know what love was, i sure as hell wasn't feeling it. All the pain i'd felt in life was from this idea someone had the wrong image of me in their head, and all my joy was from them having the right image in their head. Just a hollow shell that manipulated people to temporarily fill itself. I'd learned so much about psychology just for the purposes of being able to understand, and by extension, manipulate people into thinking a certain way about me. My every action was fake and deliberate to lead someone to a conclusion on me.
Truly a sad existence, and it was shocking to see how blind i'd been to it my whole life. To escape this trap, i had to give up on being loved..My pursuit of "love" ensnared me, or what i thought was love. When i stopped needing love, my real underdeveloped self was finally able to come out; the feeling i realize was REAL love is akin to appreciation and gratitude, and it was so shallow and without depth because of the distorted values i'd held my whole life. Pity the narcissist, because it is truly an awful experience. They are victim of themselves as much as they are victimizers. Unable to be their true selves, they are caged.
Oh, and for those wondering, how i was able to "give up on being loved"? It sounds like it was easy, but i had to deliberately expose myself to the idea of never being loved so much until i finally stopped fearing not being loved. When i was no longer afraid of failure in regards to being loved i was finally free of it's grasp. Oh, also, i wouldn't recommend this but.. I took some magic mushrooms with the idea in mind of "letting go" of being loved, or giving up on being loved.. That seriously knocked me in the right direction, although i would've probably got their eventually regardless, it'd have only taken longer.
We probably need to daily micro dose the planet 🌎….
The Ultimate Trip is as you say. The DEATH of thinking we are bestowed "love" from "others", but ARE in FACT, LOVE. Knowing this heals everything. And everyone.
I'm narcissistic myself. I had a very cold childhood and adolescence, and I had to create a "new me" to extract positive feedback from others, as I saw (and still see) the true self as weak, clueless, and pitiful thanks to consistent bullying and exploitation at the hands of the antagonistic neurotypicals. Narcissism has worked wonders in curing my ages-old depression, but as I go deeper down the rabbit hole, I can't help but wonder why clinical narcissists could possibly be so miserable. Maybe one day I'll find out.
I was also going to mention when I first read this, you may be a Leo. or on the Cancer Leo Cusp. Or the Leo Virgo cusp.
BTW, I definitely have narcissistic attributes, because Aries sun , Leo moon. But I also am extremely empathic and am highly motivated to help others, provide inspiration, and lift others up. UNLESS people give me trouble, then I go full narc. lol. I make no apologies.
Ok, i take that back. after i destroy somebody for being a narc, i try to fix them back up again. lol. because I'm not really pathological. Thankfully, this has only happened rinse repeat with one person so far in my long life.
It's amazing how someone can interpret aspects of a narcissist/sociopath's life in order to idealise them; seen from a realistic viewpoint, they can depict an entirely different person. A few examples of idealisation vs reality from my former relationship:
"Wow, he's so well travelled and brave for living abroad" (he had an arrest warrant back home);
"He's a magnet for women" (he was a serial cheater);
"He doesn't care about money"(he usually avoided working);
"He's so laid-back" (he was so lazy the house could crumble around him);
"He has traditional family values" (he was your average abusive misogynist);
"He loves long conversations" (he loved raving about himself and his views for hours);
"He's a Jack-of-all-trades" (he couldn't hold down a job for long) etc.
brilliant
"He had so many political insights" - He was really just a racist
Totally my x boyfriend!! 😄
Hahaha brilliant 👏 😂
That's just being delusional 😂😂😂
This is excellent. People try to make me feel odd (odder than I am) for not being into casual sex. Just feels like giving too much away for not a lot of return, even detrimental
Makes sense.
They never loved us either. They're good at making it look like love. It bothers me so much wnen people who knew me then and met him say that he did love me at the beginning. No, he did not, he was good at pretending.
So true. They love the image they make us to be to fit their overblown image of themselves. Be your true self and they push you off that pedestal real quick. They never loved us and that makes it easier to heal.
@@jp5419 Exactly. And when we are our true selves and someone else comes along and loves us for being us, it makes healing and leaving behind those false beliefs easier too.
@@jp5419 that is exactly what my ex did .she said that image is very important to her,I already felt from the start that she's just pretending about everything with our relationship I just ignored the red flags.until the discard phase when everything I suspected about her was proven true.they absolutely don't care about you and it sucks realizing that you love someone that doesn't really care..
@@jp5419 so true. They don’t really know us. They also underestimate us.
@@allandio2676 yep, they are great pretenders but they don’t know who they are.
I once looked at him, my ex, and thought, he is very sick. I pushed it down. I would see him casually lie all the time. The one thing that I couldn't tolerate was his anger and his ability to make me feel guilty. I was definitely in the shared fantasy full stop. Glimpses of reality and a sense that this was not sustainable. It was sucking the life out of me. I am so glad to be able to see with no doubt that none of it was real. That was the most confusing thing, I didn't know what was real.
Great comment.
Exactly!! I could have written this exact post, but you are far more eloquent!
I'm there now....I don't know if it was real or what's real now. I abandoned my husband and kids 20 years ago. I started down this narcissism road about a year or 2 ago after someone else waking my ass up. I have researched myself to death. I just can't or don't know how to believe my ex and my parents really didn't love me. I have gone deep enough now and connected to my self and am feeling what it truly means to 'feel' SHAME. I have SO MANY repressed negative emotions I'm trying to layer through. I'm in such a shame spiral I feel like I'm out of touch with reality. My kids are struggling and my grandson desperately needs someone who sees and hears him and allows him to be himself and not have to twist himself up like a pretzel to feel and know he matters and is truly loved and not a slave to get his needs met. If anyone could offer some feedback I could really use it. Please 💛🙏
@@dontbecomeone9523 I wish I had an easy answer for you. Love yourself and try to understand that you are beautiful in your heart. Speak to yourself as you would speak to your grandson. I am not good at these things. I teach best what I need to learn most. lol...I am praying for you.
@@onlyluvisreal6691 Thank you for your kind reply and for the prayers! This is so HARDDD! I feel sickened. I'm praying for you too💛🙏
You fall in love with the idealized version of yourself as reflected to you through the narcissist. the narcissist gives you a hefty dose of what it feels like to be him. It is self love like youve never experienced it before and its addictive and you Love It.
this is paraphrased from Sam Vaknin
When i consider my situation from this perspective I feel a shift.
This, exactly 💯
Knowing this is all person needs to break the spell. Once you realise that you were only feeding your own ego via a hologram of yourself, the game is up.
Yes this is true, but the devalue stage is sooo upsetting it can cause a lot of distress and suicidal thoughts about ourselves.. It's a massive shock 🤯 to our systems hormones and nervous systems to.. It's good to know now though.. 🤯
@@annettegardiner7270 totally 💯 percent agree. Trying to breathe again
@@ladymother5488 keep deep breathing it strengthens the core, I've copd so I have to.. Take care..
So we really fell in love with ourselves. Wild
There is a strong possibility that this video has saved my life. I had been crashing hard for the past few days but after watching this, it is all starting to make sense. Taking responsibility for my part in the shared fantasy is ultimately going to be the foundation of what I hope is a healing process. For now though, after watching this video, I at least have the strength to continue on into tomorrow. Thank you Richard.
Amazing Richard ! I remember once telling to him’ you never showed me who you really are, you didn’t let me be who I really am , so you and I were never met “
I didn’t feel an authentic love, with them, & started to love myself. It’s been a long insane journey, but now I’m aware.
"a long insane journey"...no truer words ever spoken!
@@estherann7407 facts
Good for you.🌻
@@FirstnameLastname-qt1qn Jesus IS God and made you!You were made to be loved ,but ONLY He can fill that empty void! Watch Randy Kay on you tubeand be blessed and saved!
Love starts from within, in my view, you have to love yourself, which is not narcissism, it’s recognising ones intrinsic worth.
That's Not Taught On Purpose...To Set Up Victims Who Don't Love n Appreciate SELF.
So true Philip. It’s what allowed me to walk away from a toxic narcissist relationship. It was short…2 years.
So true about everything being a game, narcissists are like god's who can rebuild the board game every time you start to win. The only thing you can do is to cut your losses and walk away from the board.
Love this comment x
😮😪😭EUREKA!!!!
Awesome comment and so true. I’m with one now. I knew I was going to be punished once I revealed the truth. He did. I had another win again and now waiting for the next punishing.
But it’s not just the punishing it’s the knocking of your confidence, self esteem , making you feel inadequate on top of this. Very hard indeed.
@@LisaMarie-xp4ym remove yourself from that abuse. Don't say it just do it.
@@LisaMarie-xp4ym get out! You have a real life to live. Don't settle for abuse because you are aware of it. Mad love, get safe.
I agree with this thesis. Once the spell is broken and you see them and they see you seeing them, then the devaluation cranks up. It doesnt work as intended though. The spell once broken is broken. They start to deflate and replacement/discard becomes inevitable.
Absolutely! I recently hit the point of no return with my narc by exposing his lies and deceit in a way he couldn't deny/refute or fix, so he's moved on to my replacement whom he'd been grooming for a while. He had another supply, but she either finally saw him for who he was or got tired of waiting for his false promises to materialize, or she demanded too much and he discarded her. My eyes were finally opened to the cold reality of who he is, and that for 20 years I'd been obsessed with a man who was never real. He's incapable of feeling anything deep because he's an empty vessel, a bottomless empty dark pit.
"The narc doesn't really love you" "You don't love them either" ALSO.....We don't really love ourselves as well. Maybe 'don't respect, admire, or hold our self in high enough regard' would be more accurate.
You loved the illusion you created
Can't be in an intimate relationship with a narcissist if you won't accept the narrative of who they are.. This resonates a lot. My ex would always tell me what kind of person she is, and if challenged would say, "that just goes to show you don't really know me."
A narcissistic will always accidentally tell you who they really are
That’s what mine used to say that
to me !! You don’t know me !
That’s right I didn’t know I was with the devil!
Ive had that line used on me to which I responded I can list your actual behaviors that prove that's not true
That's gotta be some sort of test to see if you're still totally blind to them and fully attached.
This makes me think about cultic “mind control techniques” and abusive relationships have been compared to cults in the literature. This is absolutely a thing. Abusive relationships are like two-person cults with one leader and one follower, and the follower hasn’t fully consented to the process because the techniques are very insidiously controlling. Good video!!
They are in a cult believe me , I am speaking from experience and it’s demonic
True!!! Thank You 4 Sharing!!
Yep. Being in a relationship with a narc is a mini cult. Been there worshiped that
I've heard cults referred to as "industrial narcissism" before
Deep
Holy shit!! “That’s the Sean Connery you get when you order from wish”
Best ever!!!!
Right? Lmbo!
Right😂😂😂😂 laughing hard in Alaska🤣🤣🤣
I've heard other girls say that sometimes comparing guys they fancy to a celebrity but yeah when i look at them he totally looks different, and then in my head i'm like "why are you comparing every guy to a celebrity? can't you just go and get to know him and accept him for the person he is?" noop still the comparisons, and yes they're doing it even before they start dating someone. Meanwhile there are guys who're convinced every girl will only fall for a guy that looks like a celebrity but i can vouch for the fact it's simply not true looks isn't all there is to it but it's about personality and shared values too.
It took me 8 years and many break ups to Finally see what my ex is. For many years I knew he had some kind of problem. Commitment problem, hating his mother. Insecure, sad, miserable. I’ve never really looked into narcissism. After research and watching lots of videos it all makes sense now. I completely agree with you with living in his fantasy world. If we broke up I never told people the real reason I would give them his reason and make him sound good. You know he’s living about who he is, but if you didn’t follow his life you will be discarded quickly. I knew this deep inside and felt I loved him so much I lived his dream. When we broke up eventually I knew he’d come back. And the addiction I have on him is surreal. The first few months can be horrible. And then finally I wake up. Usually he comes back but he has met somebody else now who has much more supplies then I’m able to do anymore because I just know who he is. There is no healing him.
You are so right ! I felt addicted and thought he was the hottest , coolest human being on this planet ! They hypnotise us and I can’t stop laughing it’s nice to see you being happy and light . Once again thank you 🙏🏼
Given that ALL your videos are the BEST, this is one of the BEST of the BEST! Yes, you are convinced you are in love with them, you can't live without them because they are now a part of you, and instead, after the end, you realize you never loved them because the one you loved never existed.
It's a really peculiar thing, because now you realize they you don't even like him, actually, you are disgusted by him and you ask yourself how on earth you could be hypnotized to that point. It really is amazing how our mind works, it can imagine and create feelings and emotions which are not real at all, yet they feel like real to you.
I distinctly remember the day I found your video "20 signs of a CN". A Flood Light of illumination came on & I remember thinking- " OMG!! He freakin rooked me!!" ( aka- conned, hood winked, bamdoozled ) I suddenly realized HE was the "Crazy" one, not Me!! I spoke with my best friend a couple days later & explained what I had learned. She said- I could NEVER figure out WTH you saw in him! He was nothing like the guys you dated before. It was like he "brainwashed" you!"
It sounded pretty dramatic at the time, but it's exactly what happened. I allowed him to alter my perception of not only him, but of myself as well. The part that galls me the most is he isnt even that smart!! He is however conniving & deceitful AF.
I consider myself a fairly intelligent & savy woman, but he lasered in on my insecurities & twisted me in knots for his own pleasure. Im so glad I finally see him for the weak insecure jerk he really is.
All of this!!!!
@@cbeachbaby266 Im sorry you can relate to any of this. Unfortunately this post doesnt reflect the full scope of his heinous behavior, but thankfully that is behind me now that I know that his assholery is because of HIS problems, not my "craziness".
Great comment girl@ you rock!!
Yes that's exactly how it went
Nah not dramatic he totally did hustle you, It's why some of them work on looking so good they're hustlers big time and i've recently come to understand what being hustled really looks like, and what it feels like to then have it switched on me trying to make me think it was just all my fault and made fun of for it being called "drama" it's not great whatsoever. These are the guys momma warns about.
The hook: Did I have to buy into his narrative of who he was? Yes!!! Oh God….the details feel too personal to share on a public forum, but yes. He literally saved my life, but to be saved, I had to make him an actual god. I shared the fantasy for over tHiRtY years. I’m only 2/3 through this video, and you’ve opened so many doors that six years with an apparently incompetent therapist kept firmly shut. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Its a nightmare waking up from the fantasy during the discard phase.😢
When my sister and I were little girls, she told me: "tell me what do you want me to tell you so you will love me".
Now she is a lot more sophisticated and complex than that, but it is the same game.
That's a great point! Once you realize that you are looking for authentic love, you set boundaries that family usually tell you have too high of standards... Afraid that you'll be alone with such high standards... But what they don't realize is that you are comfortable with it just being you and enjoying your life. And having a healthy partner, though it would be nice, Isn't necessary to be happy 💜
Guys, feelings after the trauma bond and any codependency are steeped in neurosis (its neurotic behaviour), e.g., obsessive thinking, compulsive behaviour (watching narc vids), going in to reaction quickly (fight or flight), fatigue, anger, perfectionism etc. Its all neurotic after these types of relationships because its us trying to have control. The narc hurt you yes, but your neurotic behaviour means you're recreating and living in that moment. Those who have had the wrong kind of conditioning as children are likely to have a proclivity to alot of neurotic thinking. When this neurotic thinking meets narc abuse / a discard its like an atomic bomb exploded in your ego. Your soul is at war with your ego (mind). Learning how to deal with your neurotic behaviour and even just labelling it neurotic, will bring immense relief. I catch the thinking and think of it as me having a thought disorder. Also, the thought that I have a safe space inside myself (my soul) that isn't going through this turmoil, is comforting. This doesn't take away from what the narc did, but it does help me truly focus on myself.
This describes me. My Dad was a little neurotic when I was little and my mother is the malignant narc who just discarded me. What helps you with your neurosis? My Dad passed so now I’m stuck with this nut. Well I’m in no contact mode but I’ve had hallucinations and auditory commands a few times in my life and now that I listen to these videos I wonder if that was because of my mother and some narc bfs. Any advice?
Your post was a aha moment for me. It really and sadly resonated but as you mentioned... in a weird way, it is a release.
Thank you... I will have to work it out now.
In going to label these thoughts, videos and obsession neurotic and try to release. Thank you this was needed 🙏
Yep you're neurotic behavior.fuels it
I have had to look at my own childhood trauma because some of us are living with our own issues from childhood and meeting up with a narcissist only exacerbates our wounds.
That moment that it hit me I didn't truly love him...was such a dizzying moment! I was embarrassed, felt I too was fkn mad. after all the sadistic abuse, it was beyond devastating and a complete mindfuck on top of a mountain of mindfucks. It is absolutely true that I fell in love with a person that wasn't real. I did beliEve I loved Him and opened my heart to him. It felt real but it wasn't. I shared the original "fantasy" of a beautiful and innocent friendship that eventually crushed every boundary. That Isn't LOVE.
The lines became so blurred I felt protective of someone who I needed protection FROM. Also not love.
I cringe as I remember his false personas.
As for His repeated question "Do you know who I Am??"
Yes i do.
NO
CON TACT
No contact! Strength is yours!
I can relate to this so much!! I've gone no contact too - No going back! 🙂
Lol...your ex and mine should meet bc they are twins except mine is female. Its bizarre that these people with narcissistic traits are so similar. It truly is...
yeah I couldn't figure out who I was in love with any more. Who is this person. One minute this, one minute that. What? I wouldn't be in love with someone who did that...
I really have a lot to deal with in getting better. It's a pattern from childhood. Feeling protective of an abusive parent who didn't protect me.
Wow that is truly freaking mind opening for me it is exactly what I went through 7 months no contact I'm in a much much better place
This makes so much sense. I knew him for three years and never looked twice at him, the moment he wanted me, I fell hard and fast as he became *everything* I always needed and wanted.
This is crazy. Sounds like me although ex narc had been around my family over ten years. We considered him family. I just knew it was destiny. REALLY boy that sh___t hurts. It was a sucker punch☹️☹️☹️
It takes a long time to totally heal. At least I now I am quite happy on my own, to be in any relationship takes so much compromise, and I do not know whether I am prepared to give my freedom away. So I am soo very careful now!!
Here's a love test . Before meeting the narcissist did you care about yourself, have confidence, self-esteem, self control? Were your thoughts crisp and clear? Were you focused and able to handle situations rationally and solve problems? Were you happy, comfortable with yourself and life? Did you love yourself?
After being with the narcissist for awhile did those things I mentioned above start to vanish? Did you stop loving yourself? If so, how could you love someone without loving yourself?
this is what ive just realised about myself.
It is thanks to Richard that I educated myself. I met someone 3 months after my husband of nearly 30 yrs passed and the bond felt primal. The powers that be took him from this earth unexpectedly 2 years after we met and in all honesty I don't know that I would ever have been able to free myself otherwise, may he RIP. Such was the inexplicable connection, need, obsession for him that I pray I never experience again. Bless you, Richard for your candor and your experience.
I'm so sorry for you dear.
I can't even pretend to know how you feel, I've not walked in your shoes.
Thing is, you have Jesus waking every step with you.
I wish you peace and success in your endeavors!
😇 💔🩹
@@blueeyes6852 thank you so very much. I was a sitting duck after I lost my husband, who was normal, lol, but the loss left me terribly vulnerable. I advise anyone who is grieving to beware. Richard is so spot on and in hindsight I recognised that it was all an illusion I had of the person, though the pain felt was very real unfortunately. It was the pain of losing myself.
Danielle my experience was similar to yours. Primal, that is a perfect description of the toxic relationship I had after my husband's passing.
Over the passage of time I have healed from that relationship, as I sincerely hope you have too.
I've been following Richard now for some years, the bewilderment I was feeling was explained and the veil was taken from my eyes.
Take care Danielle.
They smell vulnerability like a predator, which they are. Mine is "only" borderline. He met me while I was the sole caretaker of a very ill person. Smelled blood, like a fox with a rabbit in a trap.
Brilliant as always, thank you Richard. My ex Narc continues to waltz in and out of my life as a “friend”, love bombing me as “the most important person in his life” and when he does so he always manages to slip in 2 types of comments 1) a comment that touches me and moves me to tears, and 2) a sort of back-handed compliment or strange comment that in the moment I brush off but I find myself a day or two later confused, angry, and feeling low as this little seed of self-doubt he planted has now taken root and is starting to grow. He of course will politely apologize for having moved me to tears, “aww I didn’t mean to make you cry”… uhhh, yeah you did. That was exactly your intention all along. 😕 He wants to induce loving feelings so I chase him. He also has the habit of establishing financial superiority straight away, within mere moments of seeing one another he’ll benchmark what he made last month as some astronomical figure akin to what I make in a year… and he does so to establish the benchmark and use money as a means of control - ex. He wants to buy me a house to live in, but not live with me. And bc he makes so much more than I do, it’s a drop in the bucket for him, no big deal. But practically speaking, that’s a bad deal for me all around. A deal with the devil indeed.
Don't take candy from strangers.
It's all about control.
it's like falling in love with a hologram, when you want to delve into something you realize that there really is nothing, and that these 'hollow-feelings' have NO excuse to be developed. It's a decision.
Idk, The Doctor in Star Trek Voyager has a far greater capacity for love than my ex wife lol
Yes a shared fantasy and boundaries are dissolved. Super insightful and thank you for declaring how sex is absolutely the most intimate, raw, vulnerable thing you can do with another person. I’m really tired of sex being looked at as a nonchalant, everyday exchange. All this does is supply selfishness.
It is no love, we go for the person treat us like mommy or daddy or the combination of both.
To recreate the way we felt as a child in our family.
Unconscious programming .
Exactly! More people need to learn about this programming. I moved straight from abusive parents to an abusive man. SAME environment, fear, egg -shells, self doubt, putting everyone else first. I didn't exist - only to serve them.
@@veronicawelsh5313 exactly, I wish the same, more people to wake up to it.
I'm so thankful for seeing the programming. It took 50 years!!
If someone feels like home...
RUN!
@@beverlytate2669 Bevy, it is never late, 🙂.
Nothing feels better than to see.
I have just left my ex bf of 8 years, we started dating when I was 16. Coming out of his trance now, I am coming to sooooo many realizations about his fantasy I was trapped in. I would have moments of clarity and he would reel me back in so easily. I stopped being "in love" with him after a couple times of him cheating on me. Yet I felt addicted, and scared to go out into the world and find someone else. Thank you for making me laugh while on my healing journey! I started watching your videos over a year ago when I was ready to leave, yet didn't until a month ago.
That sums it up perfectly. Bravo 👏. "You cannot love a person you don't know." 💯 Have a peaceful chill Sunday there 😉.
You Can't Be Tricked....Lied To Example Thru Family You Expect To Love.
"They are emotional button pushing machines" - YEP! Thank you Richard for always vocalising the many elements of my life that I have been blind to, I recognise them INSTANTLY though!! 🙏💞
It is from failure in love and relationships that we really see our own part in it. It has been for my fantasy of authentic love that I grieve. I did learn how to be alone and enjoy my own company living with my ex for 30+ years. I compromised feeling unworthy of love. That’s on me not them.
Thank you for your time and attention Richard!
This struck home! I have been tinkering on this subject as well.. Why do I feel these feelings for someone who I actually don't like anything about. He has nothing going for him and still he makes me feel inferiour. But this really explains it all. And also, how I confused the anxiety I felt around him, thinking that was a love reaction
Yep
Great insight! Thanks for sharing this.
I began healing most, when I realized that my own emotional issues left me open to the n.
I agree my relationship for 8 years on and off was more hoping and fantasizing than an actual relationship
He kept me in that limerance/lust/crush and "what could it be" than intimacy.
At the end of day he wanted me to fawn, to worship and be addicted to him. Last time I saw him he told me that
A narc I was dating has told me the same
The fact that you are here and got through something like this, that many of the rest of us found you and got through things like this... is a big white pill ♡
The only time I experienced obsession was when I got attached to narcissists who didn't reciprocate my feelings. Now whenever I feel something like that, it's a massive red flag. It makes me consider what they have done to induce this state in me. Normally it is from blowing hot and cold, boosting me up and then suddenly criticising me. I once met a girl who told me that no man had ever rejected her, and that all her ex's were obsessed with her and heartbroken. She'd latch on to me, make me feel special, then suddenly hit me with extremely harsh criticism. I somehow ended up seeing her as a goddess and me as this loser who wasn't good enough for her. It really felt real at the time, but now it seems so silly. What woke me up, was seeing her do the same thing to other guys and I realised she wasn't so special, just good at pushing certain buttons.
Run, run, run, do not look back!!!!
I always have said, “you can’t love someone who does not love you back”, but what I am struggling with is the confusion of believing I was loved (at least for the majority of a 2.5 year relationship) until the last few months and then ultimately hearing “I love you, but I am not in love with you”. It makes me question the entire relationship. So now what helps the tiniest bit is that I don’t want to be with someone who does not love me 100% (or who does not love me back). It is just so hard to let go of something you thought was real. It’s sad, disappointing and so confusing.
But- you gave the best advice I’ve heard yet in a recent video: “You can’t sincerely communicate with an insincere person…walk away”. That will stay with me FOREVER! Truly. Not being insincere here (pun not intended-at least at first. lol).
I just stumbled upon your TH-cam channel - You have made me smile amidst much sadness and confusion …thank you
Absoloutely agree. I entered into his fantasy and therefore I never got my needs met. I convinced myself I loved him when I on a daily basis knew I didn’t even like him.
What’s that song…
You made me Love you I didn’t wanna do it, I didn’t wanna do it.
You made me fall in Love and all the time you know it!
This is the shared fantasy anthem!
Thank you Richard, I needed to hear and realise this. And as ever your humour makes the enlightenment a joy! Xx
I think that is something i'm going to say to myself from now on "I'm about to enter into this fantasy, but i won't get my needs met" as a kind of warning and mental note about what i'd be in for.
A few song lyrics spring to mind. Winona Oak "that wasn't love, that wasn't love; that was just hope", Lana Del Rey "hope is a dangerous thing for a woman like me to have" and a clip of Halsey saying you shouldn't fall for the person who makes you feel like flying, anxious, gives you butterflies. It should be who makes you feel grounded and safe. Not that I'm for Hollywood starlets, just throwing out some other ways people have framed these ideas. Thanks for this, I will definitely mull on it for a few days further.
Even feeling grounded and safe can be a shared fantasy. There is no safe place outside ourselves. Grounding is on me before I go on that ride.
@@tashmoobabe8704 Absolutely! You need to feel completely whole and grounded in and of yourself first of all, you can never rely on someone else for that. I mean to say more, that those who make you feel anxious can be your bodies unconscious sign of danger, a helpful red flag.
@@tashmoobabe8704 It's true. I didn't feel butterflies at first or nothing like that. They will sell you the illusion of what you want/need, for me it was support/caring, someone who was there for me and could just hug and tell me "Don't worry. You can rest. i won't let anyone hurt you". But then the push pull game started, he knew safety and emotional stability was what i wanted and needed to he started to withdraw. At any moment he would let me fall, at any moment he would slam the door, making me aware that my existence was just a transition. I was never going to be part of his life, he kept on living his life and i was like a videogame he would press "start" whenever he wanted to live the fantasy, and then left me on the shelf, on the floor , whatever.
Sam Vaknin has a video on this about "shared fantasy, your role" (not the one about the borderline/narc fantasy) and he explain exactly this, even uses the videogame as example. How they promise intimacy, future goals but then don't deliver and the partner starts to demand what was promised, it's when the narc feels offended and that the fanstasy isn't working anymore. Because he wants the playmate/mother to provide sex/services/supply, but he doesn't want to deliver what he promised, he will only give what he feels like. In my case would be random gifts or stuff for the apartment i didn't ask for, even the gifts weren't something that i liked (like clothes, shoes) but i would accept cause it was if gift, to make him happy.
"I won't give you what you want and I promise but here's a new bag because you deserve to be happy"
@@Sarablueunicorn Man that promise of the future is the one that hits the hardest. Cos when they leave it feels like the world is over, your future ruined, grey, empty. They give you false hope through it, a fantasy to make you committed and blind. As you say, it's all a ploy, he probably did it to every girl before me, and will do it to every one after. You're right, although butterflies can be a sign, there are many ways these slime operate.
Yes. Finally the truth, thank God. Owning my full participation in the grandiose fantasy is empowering.
"You can never (truly) love a person who never lets you know them"
aka a person who is not a whole person but a false-fronted narcissist.
Truth.
All interactions in that "arrangment" are then by definition compensatory, & reactionary, as opposed to genuine & proactive.
So much energy wasted too
What you said at the end was bang on, "it's more akin to a teenage crush on a pop star than it is to real authentic love that can last". That's what they're going for anyway, adoration, not the real thing that requires the capacity to put someone else ahead of themselves.
Good stuff. I was convinced things like “the s4x was so good.”
When i looked back, all i could think was it was TERRIBLE! Because it was terrible
Before I ever found you or Sam Vaknin while searching frantically to find out what was wrong with me, I felt and believed that I had been mesmerized. I used those actual words early on. No one believed me or had a clue why I was such a wreck. I literally went from being uncomfortable around my psychopath (formally clinically diagnosed) to being totally enraptured with him, feeling like I could sprout wings and fly because he loved me too. I do not know how or when the discomfort turned to such insane desire for the relationship. I literally have no memory of the switch or when it happened. It seems like a reaction to two different people but it all happened quickly and I know for certain the mesmerization in some way was real. It was amazing until it wasn’t, about a month after he moved in with me it was like he was someone else and so my journey into madness began. When I found you and Sam the videos at first sent ice water through my veins, it was that real and spot on. Finally it all began to make sense. Thank you for all you do.
The love of an empath with a narcissist is the magnetic polarised love, the meeting of plus (+) with minus (-). It is not a love based on similarities, that is the plus(+) with plus (+) as in empath+empath or minus with minus love (narc+narc).
The magnetic love is attractive and deep but it has low compatibility while the similarities love is harmonious, balanced and based on mutual understanding.
Choose wisely !
Look it compatity and commonalty than attraction and intensity
Parasite and host feeding it.
It’s Mina and Dracula
Its hard to hear but what Richard is saying is true. After all, the narcissist cant love themselves and therefore cant really 'love' anyone else. When I would be away on business trips and experience moments of clarity, I would think: he doesnt really love me and i dont think i really love him- but you get back home - the shared fantasy game starts to play again and you're off on another cycle. These videos are enormously helpful. I know i'm not crazy
The first time I was introduced to recovery of domestic violence it was explained to me that I was playing a role in this relationship. It was only years later I understood I was involved in a codependent/narcissistic toxic relationship.
Omyg Lisa you just just hit my core .wow so true
❤️
Thank you God - you exist Mr Granon , your ways of explaining things are just perfect . I follow you 4 years now -- I’ve learned a LOT. I’m stronger, empowered and I have very nice relationship with myself 😌 thank you for being here and God bless you dear ❤️🤗😎😎😎
He was on form today. So good to see him so cheerful and humorous. Even if there are games the difference is the narcissist plays dirty.
Hi Richard. I'm sorry that you've gone through another relationship with a personality disordered user. But I think the good thing is that you realized it and left. That's self love and shows good mental health. Because from everything that I've heard. So called "normal" people can attract them also. They simply don't stay and engage for long periods of time. Because they love themselves and feel they deserve better. And because they sense there's something really wrong there, and they're not patterned to think that normal behavior. They see it much quicker as squirrely behavior. And once they see that, they also don't excuse and rationalize their behavior. And luckily that's healthy behavior we all can adopt, even if we've had screwed up childhoods. Dana Morningstar put it so well when she said, you want a partner, not a project.
Because of your recent experience though with a narcissist. I'm glad that this type of video is back for those who need it. Your early videos where you'd use references to movies and books to illustrate what we've gone through, truly helped me understand deeply what I'd experienced and heal. I appreciate that so much, thank you. Just hearing you talk about things for an hour in your videos was always helpful for me. Now I consider myself healthier, but I do still watch some of your videos to keep the information fresh in my mind. Keep a healthy vigilance against being used again.
I understand what you mean when you say we never really loved the narcissist. It's because we never actually knew them. Because there isn't a "them" or a "self" there to love and know. But, WE'RE real, and we do love. Having lived with that type of person for many years in a marriage. I will say that though it's true I never really knew him, I was fooled by him and his "acting." I did love the person I thought I knew, his well crafted facade. And that seemed like some of the best qualities we crave in people. So we DO love the qualities we THOUGHT we were involved with. They just didn't actually exist in the person we were with. We are capable of love, bonding and caring, and becoming genuinely attached to a person. We just didn't realize, and it's not our fault, that in this case, there isn't a person there. But that shouldn't negate our love, our ability to love, it's what sets us apart from them. And if we find someone else capable of love and healthy bonding, we can then actually have a loving relationship. Because it's genuinely reciprocated. I don't subscribe to the belief that we're damaged for life and can't have a healthy relationship. We simply have to change our ways and learn to have shields and healthy distance for much longer in the "courting" phase (to use an old school term) for protection. We can't "fall" in love, or "leap before we look." We have to use good sense.
I'm glad this information is finally out there and free for anyone seeking it. My only regret is that I didn't have it before I went through that long term very bad relationship/marriage to someone who was basically an actor in all of life. When Richard says they are watching us and adjusting their performance to get what they want from us. That really is a very different way to live, from how we live our lives. And as he and others have said, the main protection is to go incredibly slow. No matter how much your heart wants to go galloping in, trusting all the way. Don't become involved till you know who you're actually becoming involved with. And if you realize oh no it's another personality disordered person, you leave this time. Sure we wish it would never happen again, but it can. We just have to be prepared for it going in. If you're not prepared to be alone again, because you feel too needy and are afraid of that feeling. Then don't date yet, you're not ready and you WILL attract another person who will use that against you. Work on yourself till your peace of mind and soul, your self love, is more important that anyone else telling you they love you. Then they have no leverage, you can leave, you are free. We are only imprisoned in this kind of relationship, by ourselves. So therefore, simply, we are the only ones who can free ourselves from them.
If we think this is a more modern phenomenon with these personality disordered people. Then I recommend to any of you reading this comment, either read the book from 1811, or watch a modern version of Jane Austen's "Sense and Sensibility." Or read the book "Before and After: The Incredible Story of the Real-Life Mrs. Wilson," which took place in the 1940's. Or watch the Masterpiece Theater version of it, called simply "Mrs. Wilson." Both of these stories are from the distant past. But still show that people can get involved with liars and users and it takes an incredible toll on us. It can even cause us to want to die for a while. It's nothing new for sure, probably as long as there's been mankind, there's been these disordered people causing pain and havoc. It's up to us to learn and change accordingly. I wish everyone here the best going forward. You deserve the best and love. 😊
I heard a lot of "I'm a good person."(speaking about himself)
And "You LOVE me" type stuff from the last narc.
Honest people don't have to remind you of their own good(actually false) traits like that.
Oh yes and always claiming to be the “hero” , the helpful one, if anyone questioned his behavior.
Totally agree. Its not just lust. Its bonding at the cellular level.
I cant tell you how many times ive layed in bed late at night in tears asking God to please help my heart let go. Intellectually my head got it, even on some emotional level i had disengaged. But there was some aspect of me internally that remained connected to him. It was so hurtful and frustrating.
...and I do feel like each of our 'inner children' bonded with each other- hard core, and I do feel like we are still bonded- not intellectually, or emotionally, but the best way to describe is cellularly/ ancestral or something of the sort.
Im working on strengthening my boundaries, identifying the fantasy and letting it go. Rewriting the truth- just like one fluffs and shakes out the wrinkles in their blanket when making their bed.
Why do I feel like I still love him after everything he's done? Ive talked about this with my therapist a lot.
I fucked up. I abandoned myself and became his slave. Im sad about that. Im so sorry I did that to myself.
In the beginning I told him I just wanted to be good to him. That was the truth. I just got sucked in. I believed him and got sucked in. Gave him the benefit of the doubt. Trusted him more than i trusted myself. That is the cardinal sin.
Peace. 🕊️
Initially I was “in love” with who I thought he was and who he initially portrayed. But with time, (we were together off and on for 10 years) I began to understand who he really was….. and I still loved him. He was abusive in every way when he felt like being that way, and sweet as can be other times. I should have left with the physical abuse and for some reason DID NOT! I researched his behavior A LOT and quite honestly could predict things that happened. I once told him, “I think I know you better than you really know yourself”. This made him angry!!
I really do think I truly loved him. With each time we got back together he had “reinvented” himself and I could see through all that bullshit to the man I loved. I hope this makes sense.
'Folie a deux' a shared psychosis. That's exactly what I concluded ... but I surfaced sooner than they did and the unreality was shattered.
I really did give everything I was capable of to "love" in the relationship. But, I would sometimes say to myself "what am I doing? He's not any of the things I should love." Then, I wouldn't answer myself and go back into "the shared fantasy space".
Oh yes. I relate 100% to this. 😞
It's only recently I called myself on it, because THAT'S what I chose, instead of something real and loving
OMGosh…thanks for the words to my insane thoughts.
I think narcissist clone themselves. So many stories are identical. DEMONS DEMONS 👿👿👿👿👿👿👿👿👿
I was in exactly the right space to watch and hear this video. Everything item rang completely true to my experience and the "A-ha" moments piled up. This was exactly what I needed to hear. I want to preach it from the mtn tops. Thank you so much for introducing these new ideas and how they work in these relationships. While it's not 100%, I feel much more empowered to let go and do what I need to do to move on. I will slip backwards I believe but I'm on the right path. Thank you!
Yes. This describes my experience with two different narcissists. Full and complete fantasy on my part. And I KNEW it. I witnessed it as an observer as I engaged in it. The fantasy felt safer than the real thing (my own trauma issues) and it did create a high. I did not consider myself a victim because I knew it wasn't real and engaged anyway. The feels were big and dramatic because of the fantasy. 100% teenager with a celebrity crush.
And when their masks slipped I saw them clearly and got out out. Thankfully I woke up. But I still have issues to work out. Self worth and self forgiveness are key. Thank you for your videos. They're the best I've come across.
✨Thank you for this video!! My narc husband soon to be ex got delivered divorce papers yesterday. But I’m still missing “him” or the thought of him. Then I remind myself who I was before I met him and now how many health issues I have for not listening to my intuition 4 years ago. Married for three. The love bombing and romance right away hooked me! So I def have been looking within why I took part in all of this.
I find your teachings to be shamanistic in nature and perform exorcisms of my own conditioned based suffering. Truly brilliant. Thank you 🙏🏽
The shared fantasy resonates.
I was looking through photos 9months in and was shocked to see what she actually looked like. I had a completely different picture in my head. As soon as I saw this every interaction made me feel uneasy.
I ended it 1week later. 5months on she’s still stalking and baiting me on Social media 😂
Yes spot on. I felt as if I had met my soul mate, a meeting of minds and of course, of bodies too. I was totally obsessed, thinking about him most of my waking hours, jumping up in the middle of the night checking my emails.
This was a long distant relationship, the long gaps between "trysts" filled with hundreds of emails.
After 8 years of this rollercoaster, I killed the relationship, although he had already discarded it and was as I suspected moving on to the next person.
Guess what, this summer 9 years later, he comes knocking on my door, and what did I feel, nothing. I saw him for what he was.
Have I experienced mutual love and respect for someone, yes indeed, my late husband who was part of my life for 20 years before he died. What we had was respectful, authentic and yes started with passion which then evolved into a loving caring relationship, with the ups and downs that occur in family life.
Even when I was in the toxic relationship I sensed that it wasn't authentic. I suspect that the nature of the relationship being long distance spared me the worst of the psychological cruelties.
It saddens me that I betrayed my husbands memory.
Thanks for sharing your story.
Boomerangs
Funnily enough it was through the relationship with the narcissist that I experienced how to love someone truly and be in a relationship. I learnt that my love is very strong and I’m a wonderful partner. Obviously it was all taken for granted and proved they didn’t deserve it. But thanks to them now I know what really loving someone is. I just want that same back in future!
I just love your humor as I can relate to a lot!!! They are also in my experience cowards when you draw the line and struggled to get him out of my house. So the final day he had been to get out, he committed suicide!! Fuck that gave me ptsd 6 months later that made me so sick. So now very careful!!
Yes, whether looking back one calls intense emotions induced, button-pushing or directly intense emotional experiences, going through love bombing and a rapid switch to abuse creates intense experiences and an emotional addiction loop. Also, within the last year, I heard Sam say that the narcissist manipulates the co-dependent into falling in love with themselves not with the narcissist. There's a truth bomb that can be painful to contemplate. Even looking at the convoluted syntax of the sentences I'm writing, the hall of mirrors nature of this topic, the mind in action and the mind in it's deep nature stares back at me from the page. Mature adult love, it seems to me, is by contrast, frequently sprinkled with sacrifice, awkward moments, emotional alone time of biting one's tongue, taking one for the team or simply being patient & waiting to get yours (or something or anything) until later or never. Rewards are infrequently intense, never regular and the sensation of the relationship is felt more like a slight elevation of daily life and rather close to the daily grind. That's why it's said that Shakespeare had contempt for Romeo and Juliet. Their behavior is foolish not romantic. But readers & audiences across the ages have suffered childhood abuse, crave meaning & heightened states and find intense expression in these exaggerated relationships. Deep breath, once again, let it go. Thank Richard. You continue to on fire, lobbing your truth bombs for the betterment of all who care. I'm off now to swim for 3 hours in a swim clinic. Started swimming during the 3o day challenge last year. Life changing for the much better. Thank you very much!
I agree totally with these concepts. I didn't love them, but the dream of us we orchestrated, the future, the fairies. We need the hope/fantasy, but the hope is also the downfall glossing over all the boundaries crossed. It's why life is such a difficult balance as you say; you can't lose the fantasy or you'll go mad, but you can't live fully in the fantasy or you'll equally go mad. The middle path. Loving with boundaries.
Wow. Well said.
Love relationships are meant to be more about the heart space with the childlike wonder and creativity~ That's the spark that fuels passion and zest for Living~ You can have this with Nature, animals, and a Whole person who has done inner work~~
loving somebody is a skill is one of the truest things I have heard. we need to objectively assess if others have the requisite awareness and desire to put in the effort necessary in honing that skill. no bad blood and finger pointing. it's as simple as this person cannot offer me what I am looking for and move on. just make sure you aren't emotionally starving and you won't fall in their trap 👌
go adopt a cat 🤗
Dear Richard, thank you for putting a name on this. I've been struggling for a couple of weeks with this contradiction: victimization (whether in myself or in others) irritates me, yet I often default to feeling victimized because I find some sort of safety in it. I was stuck with this problem until I saw this video, then I understood that because my mom's default state is that of victim I now see that I entered her fantasy in order to keep the bond with her. Now that it has a name it's so much easier to let it go, what a relief! Thanks again for doing this research and sharing it. take care!
I hope this isn't a 10 minute hit and miss, this topic deserves a full presentation with about three quarter to an hour nuanced discussion
Its 32 minutes. Strap in :)
Thanks Richard
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It's quite normal to spot guilt, shame or anxiety when I see it but when it comes to love and relationships how does one trigger love from another , what tactics is one really using is it what they say or do
You really are something amazing Mr.Grannon....
A true warrior for good....
I like your humour Richard. It really helps 😊
Yes when u have been affected by a narcissist (or sociopath) the trauma you are left with makes it hard to know what is real after that. Then you dont know if what you are picking up psychically is real or is then just demonic attack through the actual traumatic damage. I get you.
A man approached me at the grocery store today. My guard immediately went up. Sad, but I think I'm nervous about meeting another narcissist 😢😢😢😢
There is a happiness that comes over you when you discover the truth, and a funniness of how it let you effect you so much. I'm glad you are in a good mood
Superb video. Should be compulsory viewing for teenagers at school. Absolutely nailed what I've been doing - that's for sure. I was adopted as a baby and had a grim fear-filled childhood full of emotional and physical abuse. Every 'romantic' relationship I had prior to therapy was abusive and I unwittingly invited those abusers into my life because of two key reasons.
Firstly, I used sex to achieve closeness. I had no idea I was doing this because I thought I was just enjoying sex but I can see so clearly now that I was using physical proximity and physical boundary breaking as a way of being close to another human being.
Secondly, my deep and unconscious abandonment terror (it was bigger than fear) drove me to fantasy bonding that only existed in my own mind. I stuck with unpleasant and cruel people but kidded myself that we were in loving relationships. I felt what they wanted me to feel, I did what they wanted me to do and in my fantasy this meant that we were partners and in love.
It was pure fantasy BUT if you had told me that prior to therapy I would have defended my reality to the death & would have thought that you were blind and deluded and unable to understand me.
I'm still not 100% confident of my abilities to properly get the measure of people, so now I go very slowly - painfully slowly, although possibly not by more healthy people's standards but definitely by my own. Slowing down gives me time to let the other person reveal themselves and not to be blinded by all those amazing feel-good chemical hormones or my own fantasies because my fantasies had to be entered into at speed and without analysis - obviously duh! ;-)
Great talk! Maybe the best I've ever heard on how these particular relationships go off the tracks, in terms of the amount of fantasy they contain. The crash from them is horrible. The only way to avoid the crash is to get into another relationship with another narc, and perpetuate the cycle. I did this most of my adult life, until the last one with a covert narc threw me into an insane downward spiral. I still have to deal with this person on an almost daily basis, because we have a kid together. If I had not come across your videos right after we broke up a few years ago, I don't think I would have been able to manage co-parenting with this person at all. Still healing from it 5 years later, and still unable to conduct a functional intimate relationship. But, still watching your videos and keeping myself in check. Thanks for everything you do for us broken people out here who'd be seriously screwed without your help. I don't have many heroes. But, you are certainly one of them!
You are such a life warrior Richard, and a good samaritan archetype sharing wisdom with the downtrodden so to speak.
". . . a life warrior" ! Perfect description!
Thank you Richard,
This is exactly the type of feeling that I’m trying to accept now. Cognitively, I completely understand what my ex was and is, but emotionally I’m not there. I can accept that he didn’t feel anything, doesn’t have memories of things we did in the same way I did (or at all), but I’m wondering how the recovering person thinks of/processses those times. I wrote in my journal that he is no “time capsule “- meaning there is no feeling, memory, or acknowledgment of everything we did, shared, etc... it’s as though I did all of those things and lived all those years by myself.
This is heartbreaking for me and it feels like I’ve lost the last 25 years with a robot. How does one get through these feelings in the waste of that much time? How does one come to accept this?
Thank you for so much important and down-to-earth/useful information.
That's exactly how I feel about my last relationship, largely based on everything she said as it was ending and thereafter. Lots of devaluing of me, reframing the relationship as one where she was a victim just putting up with me, saying she only ever loved me because of how I supported her (I mean wtf does that even mean?), how she only cheated as an excuse to break up with me, but at an earlier point saying she cheated not because she was lonely (we were apart for a few months at the time) but 'just' needed the validation. And despite seemingly admitting all of this narcissistic behaviour, trying to label me as the toxic one.
Just as guilty...I agree with this 100%. As any semblance of love and respect seeped out of my marriage to a man with high narcissistic traits, I became just as selfish and false as him, though it manifested differently. I eventually sank to vindictive depths I wouldn't have thought possible. So glad to be free and becoming more self aware and resilient daily, which also involves owning my part. Thank you Richard for giving it to us straight as always.
I did this too and almost got arrested for sending him hate mail. Sometimes it’s the only way to disconnect the trauma bond. No more. I’m above that I agree with you.