TC-W3 marine oils are formulated with anti corrosion additives to protect from salt air exposure the cylinder liners and bearings. So unfiltered intake is concern more than engine cylinder temperature for the water cooled larger engines or air cooled smaller engines. Salt air is a real concern for intermittent duty recreational boats than is carbon residue, because corrosion will be more risk than soot residues of incomplete combustion in cold or idling engines. Marine engines work as a salt air compressor that also moves a boat across the ocean by turning a prop or a jet impeller, with salt being ingested by a boat engine continuously, while it is delivering horsepower to a drive shaft as its main purpose. Ash content for oil serves as a anti scuffing deposit serving as dry lubricant where transient oil deficiency may occur. "Ashless" is not necessarily an improvement for oil formulas where anti-scuffing ash is eliminated. There are high quality marine oils that are probably fine to use also for air cooled small engines, even though not formulated as ideal for such use, and that would seem especially true for intermittent duty use where the anti-corrosion benefit of a marine oil would be a plus. But for commercial duty or for more frequent use then a different oil formulation optimized for the specific purpose makes good sense. Some of the mineral based marine oils state on the bottle being useful at dilutions up to 150 to 1. So there is no way a marine oil is an inferior lubricant even though it may not be the best formulation for every air cooled small engine application. Even though the FD specification may not appear on an oil as its official pedigree, there are major brand jet ski and other 2T oils where the manufacturer claims the oil exceeds FD and all other typical industry specifications. Quicksilver PWC full synthetic is one of those not officially certified oils that states on the bottle it exceeds JASO FD. I have never run that Quicksilver oil in anything so this is just an FYI on that particular oil. All the major oil brands that have a TC-W3 oil usually have several varieties and include one that is also rated general purpose to include small engines like chainsaws and other small engines. Many are mineral oils that have been around 20 years. Some are synthetic blends.
I’ve run Stihl Ultra in my in all my equipment. I recently bought a MS391 and MS661R… I am learning to work on them and decided to run Echo Red Armor, probably 50/1. I really don’t know. I have never had issues with my 028WB/FS131/BG56. But, science is science… too many people are having carbon issue with HP Ultra. Hopefully Red Armor doesn’t knock the carbon off the 028. Then again, they are cheap to rebuild yourself. Thanks for the content.
Just a little added info, all of the Echo oils are JASO rated FD and will burn just as clean at 40:1. The Red Armor has a slightly better detergent package so if the Red Armor isn't handy the Power Blend Gold will do just as well. And a little cheaper too.
@@richardflagg3084 thank you for the response. I’m not too concerned about price. More so longevity of equipment. The only thing that’s frustrating about red armor, if I don’t order it, I can only find it in 1 gallon blends. If you ever tear down an O 28 wood boss or super, post the video please. I am sure with the carbon buildup in mine, I will have to sooner or later. Cheers.
Goodevening Richard, first of all congratulation for all the great content and the video you make, wanna ask you what kind of 2 stroke oil can i use in Europe im my equipment, i'm trying to find some saber or Schaeffer but it's nearly impossible, at the moment i have Bel Ray H1R and Bardahl KTS ( you have some experience with this producer ? They have also a line for garden equipment ). I also try to search Husqvarna XP+ oil but i think we have only the normal XP, with you're experience and teardown what you recommend, i also ear some great result with Motul 800 Offroad. Best regards Giovanni
I recently tried Lucas Simi synthetic oil 40:1 in my ported Husqvarna 281XP it seems to have really good oil film but it makes a lot of carbon build up. I'm still trying to decide whether to try the dominator or Schaeffers. I know Scott Kunz runs Schaeffers 32:1 but I wonder which is better.
That quicksilver didn't look terrible! I ran husqvarna xp for years before I started changing flavors and didn't have any known issues. Just a little more carbon build up than I like.
Justin (who owns the saw) chimed in and said he runs the PWC/snowmobile flavor of quicksilver. I've gotta be honest, it looked pretty damn good. Cheap too, by the gallon.......
@@richardflagg3084 I run blackmax semi syn from walmart at 40:1 in my echo srm 2320t commercial use 8 hrs per day 5 days per week never a problem! Try it for a test $1.82 per 3.2 ounce clean burning and no smell. no way in hell i am paying 5.99 for a gallon mix bottle of red armor!
Rich enjoying your videos. Ask these customers what fuel they are using along with the oil. I am surprised the lower con. rods don't have oiling slots. Looking at saws ms261 vs 550xp. Your thoughts, and is there any fuel mapping capability with the computer on either Autotune or Mtronic?
Both Autotune and MTronic are closed to anything but diagnostics. You can see the fuel settings but can't adjust anything. As for fuel, it's about 50/50 E-free and E10. E-free is readily available at many gas stations here. If your cycling fuel multiple times a week it's not as bad as letting it sit. Most all of my customers are commercial.
Really appreciate the videos you're putting out. Lot's of good info. How would I go about getting in touch with you about doing some work on a saw for me?
Yessir. Saber is the cleanest burning, best viscosity two stroke out there. Milling is extra heavy duty work for a chainsaw. Long extended full throttle runs means you need max protection for the engine. Keep an eye on the air filter, it's getting a workout as well with that super fine dust.
I’m disappointed in myself I guess slacking on the oil a little does show. Definitely be exact 40:1 from now on… nice video very interesting, looks like Husky made the wait for this saw worth it. Can we get Kevin to use it before it comes back north? Lol
Piston and cylinders are made by Mahle and Kolbenschmidt for most of the product line. I'm not sure if Stihl makes any in house. That's not to say they don't, I'm just not knowledgeable enough to say for sure.
Ask about that Quicksilver oil if it is Quicksilver 8M0058907 full synthetic is oil he has been using or Quicksilver Premium 2-Stroke Engine Oil multi-use
@@justinswitzer8677 Thanks for identifying. Quicksilver I think is same as Mercruiser, Mercury - Kiekhaefer and 80 years ago built some 2 cylinder / 2 man chainsaws for cutting huge trees.
I have a question I had some Rex fuel left over from my dirtbike at 32:1 My chainsaws and my backpack blower literally sounded like night and day difference I will run all my chainsaws At 32 to one just like a fleet Commander does I cannot believe how quiet and smoothies machines and Are compared to 50:to 1
Richard would you recommend a fd rated semi synthetic oil over a fb fully synthetic? Love the videos and info.. I've had huge debates with stihl about oils and what they think is their "best" oil. Myself I choose hp super its fd rated but its semi synthetic would it still be better oil than hp ultra fb rated fully synthetic?? And the BIG question 40 to 1 or 50 to 1 for a stihl 500i?
Full synthetic OIL is generally better quality molecule-wise, but not a huge difference for a two stroke as the same oil isnt expected to lubricate the engine for dozens of hours. The additive package is much more important, and as Richard's findings and many others have shown, the Stihl Ultra is just not a great product.
I love this content. It’s not about being right or wrong it’s about gathering information and making your own conclusion. Keep ‘em coming!
Honest man about the 592. They sure are pretty wild from the factory 😉😎
I agree with you Cajun seems like all the 5 series are good runners. I don’t know what some guys want out of a saw.
I didn’t hear
“Dry as a popcorn fart”
Has to be one of my favorite sayings.
I have had good luck with Belray H1R at 40 to 1 in my older saws, its an ester based oil. All oils are good, some are better than the rest.
Well said Sir
I second the h1r. Belray all the way. 100% ester based. Runs extremely clean.
Maxima K2 @ 30 to 1 (for a Zenoah G430 on a *lightweight* generator/cordless battery charger. Think of something like *Milling.* )
I prefer the nomenclature oil nerd, thank you very much.
TC-W3 marine oils are formulated with anti corrosion additives to
protect from salt air exposure the cylinder liners and bearings. So
unfiltered intake is concern more than engine cylinder temperature
for the water cooled larger engines or air cooled smaller engines.
Salt air is a real concern for intermittent duty recreational boats
than is carbon residue, because corrosion will be more risk than
soot residues of incomplete combustion in cold or idling engines.
Marine engines work as a salt air compressor that also moves a
boat across the ocean by turning a prop or a jet impeller, with salt
being ingested by a boat engine continuously, while it is delivering
horsepower to a drive shaft as its main purpose. Ash content for
oil serves as a anti scuffing deposit serving as dry lubricant where
transient oil deficiency may occur. "Ashless" is not necessarily an
improvement for oil formulas where anti-scuffing ash is eliminated.
There are high quality marine oils that are probably fine to use also
for air cooled small engines, even though not formulated as ideal
for such use, and that would seem especially true for intermittent
duty use where the anti-corrosion benefit of a marine oil would be
a plus. But for commercial duty or for more frequent use then a
different oil formulation optimized for the specific purpose makes
good sense. Some of the mineral based marine oils state on the
bottle being useful at dilutions up to 150 to 1. So there is no way
a marine oil is an inferior lubricant even though it may not be the
best formulation for every air cooled small engine application.
Even though the FD specification may not appear on an oil as
its official pedigree, there are major brand jet ski and other 2T
oils where the manufacturer claims the oil exceeds FD and
all other typical industry specifications. Quicksilver PWC
full synthetic is one of those not officially certified oils that
states on the bottle it exceeds JASO FD. I have never run
that Quicksilver oil in anything so this is just an FYI on that
particular oil. All the major oil brands that have a TC-W3
oil usually have several varieties and include one that is
also rated general purpose to include small engines like
chainsaws and other small engines. Many are mineral oils
that have been around 20 years. Some are synthetic blends.
All very good info. Thanks for contributing!
I’ve run Stihl Ultra in my in all my equipment. I recently bought a MS391 and MS661R… I am learning to work on them and decided to run Echo Red Armor, probably 50/1. I really don’t know. I have never had issues with my 028WB/FS131/BG56. But, science is science… too many people are having carbon issue with HP Ultra. Hopefully Red Armor doesn’t knock the carbon off the 028. Then again, they are cheap to rebuild yourself. Thanks for the content.
Just a little added info, all of the Echo oils are JASO rated FD and will burn just as clean at 40:1. The Red Armor has a slightly better detergent package so if the Red Armor isn't handy the Power Blend Gold will do just as well. And a little cheaper too.
@@richardflagg3084 thank you for the response. I’m not too concerned about price. More so longevity of equipment. The only thing that’s frustrating about red armor, if I don’t order it, I can only find it in 1 gallon blends. If you ever tear down an O 28 wood boss or super, post the video please. I am sure with the carbon buildup in mine, I will have to sooner or later.
Cheers.
Goodevening Richard, first of all congratulation for all the great content and the video you make, wanna ask you what kind of 2 stroke oil can i use in Europe im my equipment, i'm trying to find some saber or Schaeffer but it's nearly impossible, at the moment i have Bel Ray H1R and Bardahl KTS ( you have some experience with this producer ? They have also a line for garden equipment ). I also try to search Husqvarna XP+ oil but i think we have only the normal XP, with you're experience and teardown what you recommend, i also ear some great result with Motul 800 Offroad.
Best regards Giovanni
Thanks for the kind words. I don't have any first hand experience with the cycle oils. Do you have access to any of the Echo oils?
@@richardflagg3084 Not really, aniway i think i find a site where they have Saber, i think i'm gonna buy it :)
I recently tried Lucas Simi synthetic oil 40:1 in my ported Husqvarna 281XP it seems to have really good oil film but it makes a lot of carbon build up. I'm still trying to decide whether to try the dominator or Schaeffers. I know Scott Kunz runs Schaeffers 32:1 but I wonder which is better.
Saber and Schaeffers are the cleanest burning oils I have tried.
That quicksilver didn't look terrible!
I ran husqvarna xp for years before I started changing flavors and didn't have any known issues. Just a little more carbon build up than I like.
Justin (who owns the saw) chimed in and said he runs the PWC/snowmobile flavor of quicksilver. I've gotta be honest, it looked pretty damn good. Cheap too, by the gallon.......
@@richardflagg3084 I run blackmax semi syn from walmart at 40:1 in my echo srm 2320t commercial use 8 hrs per day 5 days per week never a problem! Try it for a test $1.82 per 3.2 ounce clean burning and no smell. no way in hell i am paying 5.99 for a gallon mix bottle of red armor!
Have you ever tried motul 800 oil? I run it at 32:1 in all my saws, old or new.
Awesome content
Thank you!
Hey Rich I am curious to the hours on that 592? Good Video as always.
I'll plug it in before the final video and include that info. Thanks!
Rich enjoying your videos. Ask these customers what fuel they are using along with the oil. I am surprised the lower con. rods don't have oiling slots. Looking at saws ms261 vs 550xp. Your thoughts, and is there any fuel mapping capability with the computer on either Autotune or Mtronic?
Both Autotune and MTronic are closed to anything but diagnostics. You can see the fuel settings but can't adjust anything. As for fuel, it's about 50/50 E-free and E10. E-free is readily available at many gas stations here. If your cycling fuel multiple times a week it's not as bad as letting it sit. Most all of my customers are commercial.
Really appreciate the videos you're putting out. Lot's of good info. How would I go about getting in touch with you about doing some work on a saw for me?
What oil was used in the first 372 ? The one that was cooked?
I'll include that info when on the follow up video. I'm waiting to hear back from him.
@@richardflagg3084 When to test oil in a ratio of 33:1? :)
I run a 461 with a granberg g777 sawmill, I use Amsoil saber at 32:1 is this good amount of oil?
Yessir. Saber is the cleanest burning, best viscosity two stroke out there. Milling is extra heavy duty work for a chainsaw. Long extended full throttle runs means you need max protection for the engine. Keep an eye on the air filter, it's getting a workout as well with that super fine dust.
I’m disappointed in myself I guess slacking on the oil a little does show. Definitely be exact 40:1 from now on… nice video very interesting, looks like Husky made the wait for this saw worth it. Can we get Kevin to use it before it comes back north? Lol
Do mahle still make the pistons for stihl?
Piston and cylinders are made by Mahle and Kolbenschmidt for most of the product line. I'm not sure if Stihl makes any in house. That's not to say they don't, I'm just not knowledgeable enough to say for sure.
@@richardflagg3084 cheers thanks
The 462 is currently running on schaeffers 9000 at 40:1
Ask about that Quicksilver oil if it is Quicksilver 8M0058907 full synthetic is
oil he has been using or Quicksilver Premium 2-Stroke Engine Oil multi-use
I'll ask and include it in the final video.
Currently the quicksilver pwc/snowmobile synthetic oil.
@@justinswitzer8677 Justin thanks for clarifying which oil you use. Looking pretty good on the inside IMHO.
@@justinswitzer8677 Thanks for identifying. Quicksilver
I think is same as Mercruiser, Mercury - Kiekhaefer and
80 years ago built some 2 cylinder / 2 man chainsaws
for cutting huge trees.
What is your opinion on Shell Advance Ultra 2 stroke, they claim it is as good as other top brands. Cheers.
I have a question I had some Rex fuel left over from my dirtbike at 32:1 My chainsaws and my backpack blower literally sounded like night and day difference I will run all my chainsaws At 32 to one just like a fleet Commander does I cannot believe how quiet and smoothies machines and Are compared to 50:to 1
come across any saws run on lucas semi syn?
Richard would you recommend a fd rated semi synthetic oil over a fb fully synthetic? Love the videos and info.. I've had huge debates with stihl about oils and what they think is their "best" oil. Myself I choose hp super its fd rated but its semi synthetic would it still be better oil than hp ultra fb rated fully synthetic?? And the BIG question 40 to 1 or 50 to 1 for a stihl 500i?
Full synthetic OIL is generally better quality molecule-wise, but not a huge difference for a two stroke as the same oil isnt expected to lubricate the engine for dozens of hours. The additive package is much more important, and as Richard's findings and many others have shown, the Stihl Ultra is just not a great product.
@panzerkiller13 stihl hp super is a great oil made in germany. Not that it matters but its fd rated and better than fb pond water ultra.
Husqvarna XP oil
XP+ is FD rated and definitely burns better with the updated detergent package.
Vp ?