I'm not by any means a professional on power equipment but I do know my way around engines. I'm far from your and some other guys knowledge, but one thing I do know is I'd feel absolutely uncomfortable running any of my 2 strokes at 100:1 or even 60/80:1 even with Sabre. I just started using Red Armor oil in my equipment @40:1 and noticed a huge difference in performance. I love these tear down videos. Keep up the great content Richard, also I hope you and your family has a wonderful Easter
I did 80:1 - 100:1 saber for a couple years in brand new commercial echos, have since switched to 40:1 with saber, but all motors look great with zero wear. Did a lot of wot throttle weed eating in Tennessee summers before the switch and the oil did it's job. Had to do helicoil in my 9010 blower (cross threaded the spark plug...) and l was shocked how little carbon l had and the film strength looked great at 40:1. Oil is cheap motors not so much
I used to reload. I sold the reloader (mec900G) I shot more when supplies were cheaper. Good times at the 5 stand. This oil is about what I thought it would look like.
@@richardflagg3084 I used to reload a lot on a ponsness warren 600 my dad bought new in 1975. Stuff got expensive, hard to find and the ranges got weird 2020-2021 so I said the heck with it all for now. Still have all the stuff and a lot of supplies.
Well Richard, your test convinced me that what I figured wouldn't be a good idea, isn't a very good idea. Great video. You pretty much let your test results speak for themself. Thank you for the work that it took to do this experiment.
I DISLIKE the smell of this opti-2 stuff. A lot of guys around this part run it. 🤮 They also run saber 100:1. I like the saber stuff better. But, I'm a VP 40:1 guy... lol Good video Rich!
I have been running Honda HP2 at 32 to 1 lately and have been very impressed with what I see. Lots of lubrication and clean burning. I have run the Echo Red armor for years at 40 to 1 and a short period of time at 32 to 1 with no issues other than I think 32 to 1 with the Red Armor is not as clean burning as I would like it to be.
These are great vids richard...Ive ran opti and couple other rated at 100- 1 for 2 yrs in one of my modded china saws ..saw still rippin chips..ive been amazed how good it runs with that mix...been runnin the super-S from dollar general 100-1 for couple months..its a fd rated oil and its cheap ..been doin similar oil tests as you for couple years with some same oils youve tried n some you havent..redline n schaeffer 9000 get alot of runtime in my equipment. .. .opti 4 is a great 4cycle oil as well..
Been running Opti-2 for over a decade in numerous 2 stokes (chainsaws, trimmers, blowers etc.) exclusively. Everything has run like a Swiss watch. I thought is was snake oil when I became aware of it, though my experience with it makes me want to use it in everything two stroke, into the foreseeable future. It's nothing to worry about.
New 85 Evinrude outboard recommended 100:1 back then, mechanic said…don’t use 100:1, run 50:1. Engine still good today! New 89 Hus 266 used for 2 years in logging and since for firewood and storm clean ups and deer blind brush jobs. Always ran 40:1. Every part even carb is all original. Compression still good and still use today, thanks for confirming 40 years proof. 👍👍
Awesome to see you mention Michael Forrest, i found his channel before i started doing my oil stuff and i cant remember if i have given him a shoutout yet or not.
Man Rich you got ⚾️⚾️. I know I’m old school in ways and thoughts etc but no way could I run 100:1- even on hated equipment. 😂 Thank you for doing these tests. I’ve been doing the motorcycle oil forever at 40:1. I still will but I’d run Red Armor without hesitation at that ratio with no fear. For my old Homelites I still run 32:1 which is simple as that’s what I run in my ATV so just use some of that. However seeing the 40:1 I’d run it in an old saw. I just can’t get onboard with 50:1 since my 028 cooked itself many years ago using Stihl white bottles. Yeah. Way back when. lol. I do NOT feel it was an oil issue, but a skinny ratio issue as I’d run Stihl in my old Homelite many many times at its 16:1 with zero issues. I like your bourbon bottle. I live where I’m surrounded by the bourbon trail. Lots of fun doing that
Richard...I enjoy your reviews of all the different 2-stroke oils. But after over 20 years of running Saber at 45:1 in all my saws and lawn equipment with no failures I think I'll stick with what I know works for me.
I purchased a new Stihl ms361 back in 2009 to cut wood to heat my home. I bought my saw from a local Stihl dealer near me up here in Michigan. At that time the Stihl dealer recommended Opti-2 oil over the Stihl oil so I picked up a gallon jug. I ran Opti-2 up until I started watching your videos on 2 stroke oils. I didn't mix exactly 100-1 like the instructions recommended but it was less than 50:1. I pulled the cylinder to re-ring the piston and clean the carbon and to tell you the truth I was impressed with what I saw. I'm not an Opti-2 fanatic or anything but I definitely can't run the oil down. Currently I use Husqvarna oil and mix it 40:1. I'm currently still running ms361 and the compression is as good as the day I bought it. Maybe I just got lucky, who knows?😂
Another super interesting and helpful video. I was afraid you were going to come up with excellent results because I wasn’t sure if I could get myself to do it! 😂
I used to run opti-2 for some time that was a while back and it was in non strato saws in Stihl Husqvarna and Jonsered, I stopped using it when it became stupid expensive in my local market; over $30 a quart and that was 5 or 6 years ago before the current price increases. I tried using it at 40:1 but it was slobbering raw oil out the mufflers finally mixed it at 60:1 and did so for about 4 years of hard running but like you found out it is a very dirty burning oil. lots of carbon on or in everything piston top/upper combustion chamber/heavy carbon build up in exhaust port and muffler, don't know what all the raving is about on how clean it burns I had nothing but black soot running down the front of my saws the whole time I ran the stuff. In fact one of my old Jonsered saws still has that black soot stain that I never have been able to clean off. I will say though it always left a sticky heavy oil film on everything so it's got that going for it I guess, but my god the soot lol!
Started running echo red armor because of you. Probably the best easily found oil out there. Might try a quart of the Honda oil and use the echo if I run out and need some. I’m comfortable running 40-50:1 but no way no how would I ever be comfortable running 100:1 in a saw I bought. Company saw and a company mix I honestly could care less. Part of the reason I don’t loan power equipment to anyone
Thank you have just proved 100:1 ratio isn’t sufficient enough I agree with you. I would have been a little nervous running that at 100:1 I’ll stick with my Honda HP2 at 40:1 the best 2 stroke oil I have used thanks to your TH-cam channel keep those great videos coming.
Intake side of the piston is not only the load side but 2 stroke mix offers very little lubrication until the gas vaporizes out leaving the oil. Ran a 503 rotax in ultralight for years, about 5 minutes of full throttle continuos on take off and climb out. Without proper warm up , cold scoring or seizure was a common thing.
One thing I've heard about Opti 2 is that its gas stabilizer works very well. I wouldn't dare run it at 100:1 though no matter what anyone says. I value my saws and don't want to take the chance. I'm a 40:1 guy and really like either Red Armor and Amsoil Saber. It is fun to watch your videos testing oils, I'm alway curious of the results.
I've been waiting for you to do a test on Opti-2 Richard. I've been running this oil for years and have never had an issue at 40:1. I am surprised at how NOT clean it came out ,ESPECIALLY that skinny. Now I AM running it with "screwed" carbs too...and I keep all my saws on the Fat side of things but DEFINITELY never seen anything like you've experienced on an intake side...in fact..all I know is what I know..and that is..I DO know it's not the cleanest oil out there...and as far as I know...the formulation has stayed the same as far as I can tell..for at least several years. So I KNOW there are some NEWER kids on the block in the aftermath of things. With all this being said..I'm about to fork some dough out and get a "SMART" saw of some variety...either a 562xp or 400c...and see how it does at 40:1 there. I HAVE recently purchased some Saber but haven't spooled anything up with it yet..but I was curious and have stepped outta my comfort zone to give Saber a whirl. But thanks for doing this test! As well as the other oil reviews and we'll see how the cookie hopefully DOESNT crumble in days to come! Thanks again..Have a WONDERMOUS Easter and weekend!
Thanks for risking a nice 400i piston in the name of science! And, also for showing the results. Even if it came out looking really good, I'd never switch to 100:1 on a chainsaw. Maybe on something that runs cooler, and not air cooled wfo all the time. The Yamaha 2 stroke outboards want 100:1, and I've ran 75:1 in them with good results (used to be 50:1 on the Johnson/Evenrudes ... everybody upping the ratio, but maybe better oils now too). But, they are water cooled, and running at much lower rpm, and probably idle a lot if you use them fishing. I'm not an oil nerd, but don't want a bunch of carbon buildup, or a scored piston/cyl. either. I've tried motorcycle oils, belray and motul, but usually just run the cheap stuff (Walmart Supertech full synt. 2 stroke oil) at 45:1, and it seems to work fine for what I do - I think even better than the motorcycle oils or Stihl oil. I haven't tried too many others.
Another thought on mix ratios, oils such as stihl that advertise having fuel stabilizer in the oil, fuel stabilizer is not a lubricant, whatever percent of that 2.6 ozs of oil is stabilizer takes your mix well beyond 50 to 1 to some higher level.
Yeah...don't matter what is written on the packet...my expensive Stihls are getting 40:1 Sabre..end of discussion. At the end of the day, Opti are gonna put the blame fair and square on your mixing, your tune, something "you" caused if there was to be a failure and you hit them up about it. Never see a puff of smoke at 40:1 with Sabre, exhaust is spotless and the saws runs like raped apes. Thanks for another great video though!
Braver man than me! I'm right there with ya on the actually somewhat existent lubrication, expected it to be dryer than desert sands in the bottom end at that ratio🤯 That scuffing does seem to be on the wrong side to completely blame it on the oil/ratio🤔
Runs hot, and piston expanding rapidly, in tight piston/cilinder fitting. As this pretty new machine should have. This combined with half of recommended amount of oil...no insurance oil left.. But thats just my opinion.
Love the real world tests. I know you can't run 10 gallons of each oil. I never knew there were so many flavors of 2 cycle oil. I'll just stick with my sabre @40:1.
At first I thought my 400c sucked on fuel mileage but then I realized it’s just got a smaller tank.. Even before it was ported must be a way for them to keep them a little lighter weight. Doesn’t matter because I love the saw either way. Been ported now almost 3 years and it’s never broken down or not started and it’s used commercially.
I bought the michael forrest porting calculator and it might work for piped mopeds and so on but for chainsaws it has no use. I went back and forth with him and the numbers he gave me were something outrageous.
Thank you for testing this oil! I’ve used quite a bit of opti in the last few years and have always mixed it at 70:1, even in my lawnboys that call for 32:1. Thats disappointing that it left carbon at 100:1 though. I want expecting that. Before the test, was there no wear in the intake side of the piston?
Yea 100:1 is a big no from me, most of my equipment predates my existence. MY dad or grandfather handed down a lot of my saws, mowers and weed eaters. The equipment has not lasted 30-40 years and still running great by using cheapo oil at skinny mix ratios. I was running Stihl orange and breifly ultra because "synthetic is better" right? Glad I stumbled across your oil videos when I did before I got more than fouled plugs and clogged arrester screens.... I now run 40:1 red armor and I swear my old 1984 Homelite HK-24 weedeater has more compression when pulling the cord, probably from more oil and the red armor seems to be more viscous than what I was running. I also just feel better knowing there is more oil there protecting precious metal. When I run out of red armor I might go to the local bike shop and try some of the HP2, really liked how that looked when it was torn down.
Had to read the description twice to make sure 100:1. Nuts. I’m running it 40:1 seems to work well. Keep in mind I don’t tear my saws down after a tank of running either. Buy it by the gallon and use a measuring cup.
I always found Opti 2 interesting. Their different size pouches and the big bottle with the measuring cup built in seem to all be at different ratios. The one gallon packs are 1.8 oz to a gallon. This pack you have is 1.28 oz to a gallon. Have never heard anything bad about the stuff though and used to live by an arborist that swore by it.
As much as I love Saber I don't even trust IT at 100:1 let alone this stuff. Decent equipment is expensive and oil is cheap, even at $17 a quart for Saber, just stick at 40:1. :)
I switch to 40:1 this winter from 50:1. I find my saws seem to load up faster on slow cutting and small wood. So I think I’m going to switch back to 50:1 because in my area it’s mostly smaller wood. That being said on my 660 in a chainsaw mill I will most likely use 40:1. Running 2-stroke banshees/honda 250r I always ran 32:1 running wide open sand and hill climbing. But I always said if your trail riding you can run 40:1 if you not running wide open all day. So I’m going to apply this to my saws too now
Milling I recommend the saw run 32:1. Keeps the heat down on those long runs at WOT. Have you tried a slight tuning adjustment to keep them from loading up at 40:1?
@@richardflagg3084 well I noticed it most on my new 462. I’ve only got around 5 tanks of fuel through it. Dealer told me to do a reset at 5 tanks which I didn’t do yet. But it acts like it’s loading up. Get on it full throttle and it clears out. But I was just mostly cutting up 10” average diameter wood so it’s not working hard. But now thinking about it more I did adjust my 461 and it seems fine now but when you got too many saws and not running the same saw all the time and a lot it take longer to figure stuff out. But 32:1 milling is a good idea. Thanks
@@Robert-uh6bx MTronic should have no problem adjusting to 40:1. In reality it's only a tablespoon of oil difference per gallon. What oil are you using?
@@richardflagg3084 amsoil dominator. Makes me wonder if there is a problem with the saw itself. I ran the same fuel in my 266 and it was fine thinking more. I’m going to reset the saw and see if it smartens up.
When I got a gallon of Saber the guy said 100:1 works…. I said (That’ll never happen)! I don’t gamble with my tools… 20:1 & 40:1 depending on age & factory recommendation. The EPA is a joke, a slightly richer oil mix is better.
Of all the power equipment not to go 100:1 on it’s the chainsaw. It would be interested to see if it works at 40:1. I’m sure it will. Opti 2 is a mineral oil sold at high profit margin on the premise you mix half as much and therefore saves you money. The truth is there’s no oil that will run well at 100:1 at 10-13000rpms. The oil migration is too little at those revs. Oil ratio must go up (more oil) the higher the rpms.
Thank you for your courageous test... 2 tanks of this soup would have killed your Stihl... Intake side is always least lubricated because the piston shuts of its own lubrication, and piston intake side is pushed hard to cilinderwal because of exhaustgas that wants through exhaustport, pushes down pistonbottom, wich makes the piston want to tilt, towards intake. (My imagination to understand it for myself..)
I'd be curious to see how sthils motomix performs in your test. Not that there's a lot of folks that run that day in and day out. But stihl touts that as basically the end all be all, when It comes to mix fuels at least.
Very nice video mr. Flagg , I would like to ask your opinion on 2 stroke oil shelf life , expiration dates ? , does oil loses its properties after opened ? , if has past the expiration date will become bad and damage your machine´s engine ? Thanks in advance
I can't speak scientifically, but there's a rule I live by. If you have to think about it, you may have already answered you're question. If it's dusty enough, make it a positive. Try a new oil. I've tested plenty. Most are pretty good.
Richard, I’m new to your channel. I heard you mention Saber. That is what I run. Do you have a video,or test you have ran on Saber? What are your thoughts on it. Thanks. I run it 50:1.
My first thought just getting into saws was the opti-2 then i changed my mind after seeing a tear down and the carbon after a couple years use from a guy. I Still have this thought about gas and oil and if there is separation like after a week or two, say a guy forgets to shake up his premix and gets a higher gas to oil ratio because some oil separated after a week or two and heats up his piston cylinder?
The vibrations from the saw will get things mixed up. Take the fuel cap off your saw while it's running. Not to mention starting it, drop starting it or not.
It's a rubber coated steel gasket. I replace them when the rubber looses it's bond with the steel. Yes, I clean everything before reassembly. Brake clean and compressed air, then wipe everything clean. In this instance I will flush the crankcase with mixed gas thoroughly due to the particulate left in the case.
Thanks for the video on this oil, gonna use that HP2 unless I see you test something you like better. Side note, does anyone know where to buy a gallon jug of tackifier? Looked all over online found products but mostly for sales to industry. The low cost winner on project farm cant ship to my communist state, or I'd just mail order that oil.
I’ve worked on quite a few saws from arborist outfits that use it…convenience and the dealers here always have a basket of it at the front counter…which is obvious as every one of their saws needed rings…every one of them…good gimmick for a dealership trying to sell more saws, especially since they won’t warranty it as the manufacturer says what ratio to run and it ain’t 100/1!
Ran stihl hp super in everything for years a genuine fd certified oil. They quit selling it in the us with the introduction of ultra. Tried lots of different high end oils all of them expensive some good some not. Then found mystik yard and garden with genuine fd certification. 6.09 a quart!!!!!!! Burns super clean no smoke, no carbon, no smell and lower end bearings that are all but dripping with oil, just for reference ultra is fb. Give it a try for a few tanks and yank the top end you wont be disappointed. I run it at 36-1 , 9 ounces to 2.5 gal. It doesn't smoke or smell at all and thats only .70 a gal for oil.
Welcome to the channel! If you search Stihl Ultra you'll see many of my videos. Ultra really needs to be reformulated. Did you purchase Mystic online or did you find it locally?
Long term I'd say 50:1 is the proper ratio. I tore down a 7 year old ms261 and it looked great. It belonged to a local tree service and that's what he's been using for years. There is a video for that. It's about 6-8 months ago IIRC
@richardflagg3084 that's what I meant, silly fat fingers. Was curious with the recommended ratio and good oil what the results were. I'll look up the video
I don't even trust Saber at 100:1, I'm sure not gonna trust this stuff. Fwiw, a couple of decades ago, I ran Opti 4 as part of an extended warranty on a Briggs Quantum equipped lawn mower. It seemed decent, never caused any issues, but I can't say it was anything special.
Question (I have this oil, but have yet to run it in the Zenoah) - is there (a little) smoke when cold? Thanks. (Smoke is reassuring. “I did not forget the oil.”)
@@coreycorp7048 would most likely tune somewhat rich, as the engine will be driving an emergency generator, rather than a saw. Think “chainsaw Milling” as an analogy.
For 1 tank at 100:1 that sure is dirty oil in the combustion chamber,the wash pattern! All I can see is carbon maker down the road especially if someone didn't keep a saw tuned or ran at half throttle a lot. Maxima formula k2 at 40:1 nowhere close to that dirty with over 10 tanks and can still see the top of a new piston without any dirty stuff on it
VP is good stuff for the money. I have a couple bottles I'm working through before I get to my bottles of AMSOIL Interceptor and Dominator. My younger brother said he runs the VP oil in is 93 CR250 without issue when he can't find his proffered oil.
All oils mentioned in both above comments may be suitable for high BMP 2T Motorcross bikes, they are really poor choices for chainsaws. Much better running a high quality mineral or semi synthetic oil. It's not that those expensive full synthetics are bad oils they are a top held synthetic product, they don't combust well with n low output commercial 2T engines like what we have in a chainsaw. You'll actually notice the performance change going between full synthetics & mineral oil in a saw. One oil assists combustion (mineral) the the full synths resist combustion. Enough experience will teach U this.
@@aussiehardwood6196 Actually anything that is either JASO-FD rated or that says it can be used where JASO-FD oils are required can be used in chainsaws. The JASO-FD rating is used for oil that is meant for use in hand held power equipment. AMSOIL Saber is JASO-FD certified because it's designed for small power equipment. VP-Racing is also JASO-FD certified and is sold in the lawn and garden section of a few stores here in town. AMSOIL Dominator is indeed meant for newer power-valve based dirt bikes. According to Richard's findings it is a JASO-FB rating. Which is an older oil rating before JASO-FD, which can still be used in a chainsaw it just has to be mixed a little richer. AMSOIL Interceptor is aimed for use in snowmobiles, that's why there's a few places in my area that sell it. But it says on the back of the bottle (Use in ALL two-stroke snowmobiles, motorcycles, atvs, pwcs, AND where API TC or JASO-FD oils are specified.) Not all synthetics burn dirty and not all semi-synthetics burn clean it all depends on the make. Richard has tested AMSOIL Saber along with VP Racing and they both burn clean. Saber burns incredibly clean because it's designed for running in hand held power equipment. For a racing oil Dominator burns clean but not as clean as Saber so it can still be used in a chainsaw if that's all you have on hand. All synthetics burning dirty is an old wives-tale. If your fuel still burns dirty you're mixing too much oil or your oil is just cheap sooty trash.
The Opti-2 is like Schaeffer 2 stroke oil the base oil is junk group 1&2 and just a little synthetic the only thing they got going for them are the additives but the schaeffer is got cleaners in the oil because it is a boat motor oil the Opti-2 does not from what I have seen on the top of the piston at a 100-1. You can not beat Amsoil saber, the treemonkey showed a video where he tore down a ms 661 it had a lot of carbon on the underside of the piston that's bad
Any oil can run at 100 to 1 but why. Oil seals the rings so you get better compression. As long as you re-jet for the difference. I use to run 20 to 1 in my race bike because my engine builder did alot of testing.
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100:1 ain’t no way with that oil.. thanks for the great oil content
I'm not by any means a professional on power equipment but I do know my way around engines. I'm far from your and some other guys knowledge, but one thing I do know is I'd feel absolutely uncomfortable running any of my 2 strokes at 100:1 or even 60/80:1 even with Sabre. I just started using Red Armor oil in my equipment @40:1 and noticed a huge difference in performance. I love these tear down videos. Keep up the great content Richard, also I hope you and your family has a wonderful Easter
I did 80:1 - 100:1 saber for a couple years in brand new commercial echos, have since switched to 40:1 with saber, but all motors look great with zero wear. Did a lot of wot throttle weed eating in Tennessee summers before the switch and the oil did it's job. Had to do helicoil in my 9010 blower (cross threaded the spark plug...) and l was shocked how little carbon l had and the film strength looked great at 40:1. Oil is cheap motors not so much
You certainly figured out the best shot shells on the shelf! 100:1 is Penny wise and pound foolish
I used to reload. I sold the reloader (mec900G) I shot more when supplies were cheaper. Good times at the 5 stand. This oil is about what I thought it would look like.
@@richardflagg3084 I used to reload a lot on a ponsness warren 600 my dad bought new in 1975. Stuff got expensive, hard to find and the ranges got weird 2020-2021 so I said the heck with it all for now. Still have all the stuff and a lot of supplies.
Ill Say it again Richard Flagg For President lol. Great video Richard. 100:1. Man i dont know if i could do that
I’d be scared to do that, too. 50 to 1 scares me enough to never run less oil than 32 to 1!
@dennisyoung4631 agreed👍🏻 plugs are cheaper than pistons and bearings. And with good tuning, plug life isn't an issue IME.
Nervous as a three peckered goat running it today. I believe I'll spring for a new piston and rings after todays "scuffing".
@@richardflagg3084 “…and another jug of my preferred oil.” (Joke.)
These are sure great videos!
Thanks for Sharing this test.
100:1 is scary
I would never run any oil at 100:1. You are definitely braver than me running that ratio on a $1000 saw. Thanks for the video Richard.
I’ve been using 100:1 Amsoil in all of my 2 cycle equipment.
Well Richard, your test convinced me that what I figured wouldn't be a good idea, isn't a very good idea. Great video. You pretty much let your test results speak for themself. Thank you for the work that it took to do this experiment.
I’ve been running the Honda HP-2 ever since I watched your video on it. Love the oil test videos keep it up sir.
Red armor for all our 2 stroke engines at the station and same for all our wildland fire saws. Way better than Stihl oil.
Great series thanks from wi.
I'd never do that to a Stihl. But, great video. I like 50:1 for most everything.
I feel ya'
I DISLIKE the smell of this opti-2 stuff. A lot of guys around this part run it. 🤮
They also run saber 100:1. I like the saber stuff better. But, I'm a VP 40:1 guy... lol
Good video Rich!
I have been running Honda HP2 at 32 to 1 lately and have been very impressed with what I see. Lots of lubrication and clean burning. I have run the Echo Red armor for years at 40 to 1 and a short period of time at 32 to 1 with no issues other than I think 32 to 1 with the Red Armor is not as clean burning as I would like it to be.
Red Armor is a really good oil. The HP2 is in a different ball park. Glad it working for you.
These are great vids richard...Ive ran opti and couple other rated at 100- 1 for 2 yrs in one of my modded china saws ..saw still rippin chips..ive been amazed how good it runs with that mix...been runnin the super-S from dollar general 100-1 for couple months..its a fd rated oil and its cheap ..been doin similar oil tests as you for couple years with some same oils youve tried n some you havent..redline n schaeffer 9000 get alot of runtime in my equipment. .. .opti 4 is a great 4cycle oil as well..
I like 40 to 1 Thanks Richard! Great job!
Been running Opti-2 for over a decade in numerous 2 stokes (chainsaws, trimmers, blowers etc.) exclusively. Everything has run like a Swiss watch. I thought is was snake oil when I became aware of it, though my experience with it makes me want to use it in everything two stroke, into the foreseeable future. It's nothing to worry about.
I cut timber professionally and run opti2 at 50/1. Buy it by the gallon. My engines look good to me.
New 85 Evinrude outboard recommended 100:1 back then, mechanic said…don’t use 100:1, run 50:1. Engine still good today! New 89 Hus 266 used for 2 years in logging and since for firewood and storm clean ups and deer blind brush jobs. Always ran 40:1. Every part even carb is all original. Compression still good and still use today, thanks for confirming 40 years proof. 👍👍
Awesome to see you mention Michael Forrest, i found his channel before i started doing my oil stuff and i cant remember if i have given him a shoutout yet or not.
Man Rich you got ⚾️⚾️. I know I’m old school in ways and thoughts etc but no way could I run 100:1- even on hated equipment. 😂
Thank you for doing these tests. I’ve been doing the motorcycle oil forever at 40:1. I still will but I’d run Red Armor without hesitation at that ratio with no fear. For my old Homelites I still run 32:1 which is simple as that’s what I run in my ATV so just use some of that. However seeing the 40:1 I’d run it in an old saw. I just can’t get onboard with 50:1 since my 028 cooked itself many years ago using Stihl white bottles. Yeah. Way back when. lol. I do NOT feel it was an oil issue, but a skinny ratio issue as I’d run Stihl in my old Homelite many many times at its 16:1 with zero issues. I like your bourbon bottle. I live where I’m surrounded by the bourbon trail. Lots of fun doing that
Thanks👍
hello Richard
Another beautiful instructive video
if one day you can do a test on aspen2
I will look with pleasure
thanks again for everything you do
Richard...I enjoy your reviews of all the different 2-stroke oils. But after over 20 years of running Saber at 45:1 in all my saws and lawn equipment with no failures I think I'll stick with what I know works for me.
It's one of the best oils out there. But you already know that. 🤓
I purchased a new Stihl ms361 back in 2009 to cut wood to heat my home. I bought my saw from a local Stihl dealer near me up here in Michigan. At that time the Stihl dealer recommended Opti-2 oil over the Stihl oil so I picked up a gallon jug. I ran Opti-2 up until I started watching your videos on 2 stroke oils. I didn't mix exactly 100-1 like the instructions recommended but it was less than 50:1. I pulled the cylinder to re-ring the piston and clean the carbon and to tell you the truth I was impressed with what I saw. I'm not an Opti-2 fanatic or anything but I definitely can't run the oil down. Currently I use Husqvarna oil and mix it 40:1. I'm currently still running ms361 and the compression is as good as the day I bought it. Maybe I just got lucky, who knows?😂
Yes. It would look a lot better at a richer mix. Try some Amsoil Saber. It's one of the best oils available. At 40 or 50:1 of course.
Another super interesting and helpful video. I was afraid you were going to come up with excellent results because I wasn’t sure if I could get myself to do it! 😂
I used to run opti-2 for some time that was a while back and it was in non strato saws in Stihl Husqvarna and Jonsered, I stopped using it when it became stupid expensive in my local market; over $30 a quart and that was 5 or 6 years ago before the current price increases. I tried using it at 40:1 but it was slobbering raw oil out the mufflers finally mixed it at 60:1 and did so for about 4 years of hard running but like you found out it is a very dirty burning oil. lots of carbon on or in everything piston top/upper combustion chamber/heavy carbon build up in exhaust port and muffler, don't know what all the raving is about on how clean it burns I had nothing but black soot running down the front of my saws the whole time I ran the stuff. In fact one of my old Jonsered saws still has that black soot stain that I never have been able to clean off. I will say though it always left a sticky heavy oil film on everything so it's got that going for it I guess, but my god the soot lol!
Rich nice informative ❤❤❤
Started running echo red armor because of you. Probably the best easily found oil out there. Might try a quart of the Honda oil and use the echo if I run out and need some. I’m comfortable running 40-50:1 but no way no how would I ever be comfortable running 100:1 in a saw I bought. Company saw and a company mix I honestly could care less. Part of the reason I don’t loan power equipment to anyone
Thank you have just proved 100:1 ratio isn’t
sufficient enough I agree with you.
I would have been a little nervous running that at
100:1 I’ll stick with my Honda HP2 at 40:1 the best
2 stroke oil I have used thanks to your TH-cam channel keep those great videos coming.
Intake side of the piston is not only the load side but 2 stroke mix offers very little lubrication until the gas vaporizes out leaving the oil. Ran a 503 rotax in ultralight for years, about 5 minutes of full throttle continuos on take off and climb out. Without proper warm up , cold scoring or seizure was a common thing.
Good point.
One thing I've heard about Opti 2 is that its gas stabilizer works very well. I wouldn't dare run it at 100:1 though no matter what anyone says. I value my saws and don't want to take the chance. I'm a 40:1 guy and really like either Red Armor and Amsoil Saber. It is fun to watch your videos testing oils, I'm alway curious of the results.
I've been waiting for you to do a test on Opti-2 Richard. I've been running this oil for years and have never had an issue at 40:1. I am surprised at how NOT clean it came out ,ESPECIALLY that skinny. Now I AM running it with "screwed" carbs too...and I keep all my saws on the Fat side of things but DEFINITELY never seen anything like you've experienced on an intake side...in fact..all I know is what I know..and that is..I DO know it's not the cleanest oil out there...and as far as I know...the formulation has stayed the same as far as I can tell..for at least several years. So I KNOW there are some NEWER kids on the block in the aftermath of things. With all this being said..I'm about to fork some dough out and get a "SMART" saw of some variety...either a 562xp or 400c...and see how it does at 40:1 there. I HAVE recently purchased some Saber but haven't spooled anything up with it yet..but I was curious and have stepped outta my comfort zone to give Saber a whirl. But thanks for doing this test! As well as the other oil reviews and we'll see how the cookie hopefully DOESNT crumble in days to come! Thanks again..Have a WONDERMOUS Easter and weekend!
Thumbs up!
Thanks for risking a nice 400i piston in the name of science! And, also for showing the results. Even if it came out looking really good, I'd never switch to 100:1 on a chainsaw. Maybe on something that runs cooler, and not air cooled wfo all the time. The Yamaha 2 stroke outboards want 100:1, and I've ran 75:1 in them with good results (used to be 50:1 on the Johnson/Evenrudes ... everybody upping the ratio, but maybe better oils now too). But, they are water cooled, and running at much lower rpm, and probably idle a lot if you use them fishing. I'm not an oil nerd, but don't want a bunch of carbon buildup, or a scored piston/cyl. either. I've tried motorcycle oils, belray and motul, but usually just run the cheap stuff (Walmart Supertech full synt. 2 stroke oil) at 45:1, and it seems to work fine for what I do - I think even better than the motorcycle oils or Stihl oil. I haven't tried too many others.
Another thought on mix ratios, oils such as stihl that advertise having fuel stabilizer in the oil, fuel stabilizer is not a lubricant, whatever percent of that 2.6 ozs of oil is stabilizer takes your mix well beyond 50 to 1 to some higher level.
Stihl has removed the fuel stabilizer from the Ultra formula. They have taken the approach that fresh fuel is best according to their website.
Great video man!
I run that opti2 at 40:1
Nice rub Richard it's snowing here again. 😊
Yeah...don't matter what is written on the packet...my expensive Stihls are getting 40:1 Sabre..end of discussion. At the end of the day, Opti are gonna put the blame fair and square on your mixing, your tune, something "you" caused if there was to be a failure and you hit them up about it. Never see a puff of smoke at 40:1 with Sabre, exhaust is spotless and the saws runs like raped apes. Thanks for another great video though!
Braver man than me! I'm right there with ya on the actually somewhat existent lubrication, expected it to be dryer than desert sands in the bottom end at that ratio🤯
That scuffing does seem to be on the wrong side to completely blame it on the oil/ratio🤔
Runs hot, and piston expanding rapidly, in tight piston/cilinder fitting. As this pretty new machine should have. This combined with half of recommended amount of oil...no insurance oil left..
But thats just my opinion.
Love the real world tests. I know you can't run 10 gallons of each oil. I never knew there were so many flavors of 2 cycle oil. I'll just stick with my sabre @40:1.
At first I thought my 400c sucked on fuel mileage but then I realized it’s just got a smaller tank.. Even before it was ported must be a way for them to keep them a little lighter weight. Doesn’t matter because I love the saw either way. Been ported now almost 3 years and it’s never broken down or not started and it’s used commercially.
I bought the michael forrest porting calculator and it might work for piped mopeds and so on but for chainsaws it has no use. I went back and forth with him and the numbers he gave me were something outrageous.
Thank you for testing this oil! I’ve used quite a bit of opti in the last few years and have always mixed it at 70:1, even in my lawnboys that call for 32:1. Thats disappointing that it left carbon at 100:1 though. I want expecting that. Before the test, was there no wear in the intake side of the piston?
Yea 100:1 is a big no from me, most of my equipment predates my existence. MY dad or grandfather handed down a lot of my saws, mowers and weed eaters. The equipment has not lasted 30-40 years and still running great by using cheapo oil at skinny mix ratios. I was running Stihl orange and breifly ultra because "synthetic is better" right? Glad I stumbled across your oil videos when I did before I got more than fouled plugs and clogged arrester screens....
I now run 40:1 red armor and I swear my old 1984 Homelite HK-24 weedeater has more compression when pulling the cord, probably from more oil and the red armor seems to be more viscous than what I was running. I also just feel better knowing there is more oil there protecting precious metal. When I run out of red armor I might go to the local bike shop and try some of the HP2, really liked how that looked when it was torn down.
Be curious to see a saw that used it at 40-1 after a season of logging. From what you saw I wonder if it would be all carboned up?
Had to read the description twice to make sure 100:1. Nuts. I’m running it 40:1 seems to work well. Keep in mind I don’t tear my saws down after a tank of running either. Buy it by the gallon and use a measuring cup.
Rich is the KING of More Grammer & all the HAMMER
Amsoil Sabre I'll run it at 50-1 in Saws and outdoor equipment also use red armor at 40-1 in saws and 50- In blowers and weed eaters
I always found Opti 2 interesting. Their different size pouches and the big bottle with the measuring cup built in seem to all be at different ratios. The one gallon packs are 1.8 oz to a gallon. This pack you have is 1.28 oz to a gallon. Have never heard anything bad about the stuff though and used to live by an arborist that swore by it.
I called and asked opti about that. The small packet is used to mix with an imperial gallon I believe. With a US gallon it comes out to 71:1 ratio.
As much as I love Saber I don't even trust IT at 100:1 let alone this stuff. Decent equipment is expensive and oil is cheap, even at $17 a quart for Saber, just stick at 40:1. :)
I switch to 40:1 this winter from 50:1. I find my saws seem to load up faster on slow cutting and small wood. So I think I’m going to switch back to 50:1 because in my area it’s mostly smaller wood. That being said on my 660 in a chainsaw mill I will most likely use 40:1. Running 2-stroke banshees/honda 250r I always ran 32:1 running wide open sand and hill climbing. But I always said if your trail riding you can run 40:1 if you not running wide open all day. So I’m going to apply this to my saws too now
Milling I recommend the saw run 32:1. Keeps the heat down on those long runs at WOT. Have you tried a slight tuning adjustment to keep them from loading up at 40:1?
@@richardflagg3084 well I noticed it most on my new 462. I’ve only got around 5 tanks of fuel through it. Dealer told me to do a reset at 5 tanks which I didn’t do yet. But it acts like it’s loading up. Get on it full throttle and it clears out. But I was just mostly cutting up 10” average diameter wood so it’s not working hard. But now thinking about it more I did adjust my 461 and it seems fine now but when you got too many saws and not running the same saw all the time and a lot it take longer to figure stuff out. But 32:1 milling is a good idea. Thanks
@@Robert-uh6bx MTronic should have no problem adjusting to 40:1. In reality it's only a tablespoon of oil difference per gallon. What oil are you using?
@@richardflagg3084 amsoil dominator. Makes me wonder if there is a problem with the saw itself. I ran the same fuel in my 266 and it was fine thinking more. I’m going to reset the saw and see if it smartens up.
When I got a gallon of Saber the guy said 100:1 works…. I said (That’ll never happen)! I don’t gamble with my tools… 20:1 & 40:1 depending on age & factory recommendation. The EPA is a joke, a slightly richer oil mix is better.
Of all the power equipment not to go 100:1 on it’s the chainsaw.
It would be interested to see if it works at 40:1. I’m sure it will.
Opti 2 is a mineral oil sold at high profit margin on the premise you mix half as much and therefore saves you money.
The truth is there’s no oil that will run well at 100:1 at 10-13000rpms. The oil migration is too little at those revs.
Oil ratio must go up (more oil) the higher the rpms.
Thank you for your courageous test... 2 tanks of this soup would have killed your Stihl...
Intake side is always least lubricated because the piston shuts of its own lubrication, and piston intake side is pushed hard to cilinderwal because of exhaustgas that wants through exhaustport, pushes down pistonbottom, wich makes the piston want to tilt, towards intake. (My imagination to understand it for myself..)
I'd be curious to see how sthils motomix performs in your test. Not that there's a lot of folks that run that day in and day out. But stihl touts that as basically the end all be all, when It comes to mix fuels at least.
Very nice video mr. Flagg , I would like to ask your opinion on 2 stroke oil shelf life , expiration dates ? , does oil loses its properties after opened ? , if has past the expiration date will become bad and damage your machine´s engine ? Thanks in advance
I can't speak scientifically, but there's a rule I live by. If you have to think about it, you may have already answered you're question. If it's dusty enough, make it a positive. Try a new oil. I've tested plenty. Most are pretty good.
@@richardflagg3084 thanks for your reply mr. Flagg and keep up the good work and thanks for sharing your knowledge
Richard could you do a test on royle purple oil? I hardly see anyone talk about this oil. I’m very curious. Thank you!
Land rapers!!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
You could have got a whole gallon on Feebay for $46.46
I will stay with Echo Red Armor. 40:1
Where do you see a gallon for less than 50 dollars, I just checked it and it’s around 78 dollars
@@shangrilaladedatry harder. Why would you buy it? Its not good oil.
@@sawmanbigtreeslayer2360I thought red armor is one of the best oils on the market
Have you ever tried Klotz R50 ?
I could never find any info on the make up of opti 2 , full synthetic or blend ? Would be interested in mixing it 50-1 and see the results
FYI people think saws are expensive today. That ol’ lowly 266 cost $770 35 years ago, back figure that one 😬
Richard,
I’m new to your channel. I heard you mention Saber. That is what I run. Do you have a video,or test you have ran on Saber? What are your thoughts on it. Thanks. I run it 50:1.
Penelope Barrel strength. Give it a go.
My first thought just getting into saws was the opti-2 then i changed my mind after seeing a tear down and the carbon after a couple years use from a guy. I Still have this thought about gas and oil and if there is separation like after a week or two, say a guy forgets to shake up his premix and gets a higher gas to oil ratio because some oil separated after a week or two and heats up his piston cylinder?
The vibrations from the saw will get things mixed up. Take the fuel cap off your saw while it's running. Not to mention starting it, drop starting it or not.
Do you just replace the base gasket every time you remove the cylinder? Do you ever clean the surface.
It's a rubber coated steel gasket. I replace them when the rubber looses it's bond with the steel. Yes, I clean everything before reassembly. Brake clean and compressed air, then wipe everything clean. In this instance I will flush the crankcase with mixed gas thoroughly due to the particulate left in the case.
I just mixed a gallon of opti this morning but at 40/1.
Thanks for the video on this oil, gonna use that HP2 unless I see you test something you like better. Side note, does anyone know where to buy a gallon jug of tackifier? Looked all over online found products but mostly for sales to industry. The low cost winner on project farm cant ship to my communist state, or I'd just mail order that oil.
I’ve worked on quite a few saws from arborist outfits that use it…convenience and the dealers here always have a basket of it at the front counter…which is obvious as every one of their saws needed rings…every one of them…good gimmick for a dealership trying to sell more saws, especially since they won’t warranty it as the manufacturer says what ratio to run and it ain’t 100/1!
I just bought some VP110 octane fuel running VP oil at 40-1 any thoughts on what I should expect other than a sweet smell ?
I saw lines on the bore and the piston. Is 100:1an EPA thing? VP 94 50:1
Can you test pennsoil marine and multi purpose oil
Opti 2 has been around as long as I can remember. I always saw guys put one package in a gallon jug of gas. Not sure what that ratio would be.
I believe 1 pouch to a gallon nets roughly 70:1.
Ran stihl hp super in everything for years a genuine fd certified oil. They quit selling it in the us with the introduction of ultra. Tried lots of different high end oils all of them expensive some good some not. Then found mystik yard and garden with genuine fd certification. 6.09 a quart!!!!!!! Burns super clean no smoke, no carbon, no smell and lower end bearings that are all but dripping with oil, just for reference ultra is fb. Give it a try for a few tanks and yank the top end you wont be disappointed. I run it at 36-1 , 9 ounces to 2.5 gal. It doesn't smoke or smell at all and thats only .70 a gal for oil.
Welcome to the channel! If you search Stihl Ultra you'll see many of my videos. Ultra really needs to be reformulated. Did you purchase Mystic online or did you find it locally?
Farm and fleet, free shipping over 100.00, the bar oil is pretty good just a tad thin.
They still sell hp super in europe and stihl recommends it as the best oil for four mix.
Love your videos, more of the practical side of chainsaws vs if it ain't new and shiny it ain't shit. ❤
@@user-qe5hx3br3w Thank you!
Rich. Have you done a long-term test of saber at 60:1?
Long term I'd say 50:1 is the proper ratio. I tore down a 7 year old ms261 and it looked great. It belonged to a local tree service and that's what he's been using for years. There is a video for that. It's about 6-8 months ago IIRC
@richardflagg3084 that's what I meant, silly fat fingers. Was curious with the recommended ratio and good oil what the results were. I'll look up the video
I don't even trust Saber at 100:1, I'm sure not gonna trust this stuff. Fwiw, a couple of decades ago, I ran Opti 4 as part of an extended warranty on a Briggs Quantum equipped lawn mower. It seemed decent, never caused any issues, but I can't say it was anything special.
If my hair looked that I wouldn’t have to wear a hat
Maxima k-2 at 32:1 and no worries
Question (I have this oil, but have yet to run it in the Zenoah) - is there (a little) smoke when cold? Thanks. (Smoke is reassuring. “I did not forget the oil.”)
@@dennisyoung4631You might see alittle smoke on a cold start but alot depends on how well you keep the saws tuned through the day , week, etc.
@@coreycorp7048 would most likely tune somewhat rich, as the engine will be driving an emergency generator, rather than a saw. Think “chainsaw Milling” as an analogy.
I’d run it in a 200t or 044 maybe an 090G…
Thank god you only ran the one tank 😅
Maybe if you put that Gunge into a bit less than a gallon..?
Amsoil sabre 100:1 and loggers have been running it for years at 100:1
The tree service I work at ran it for years at 80:1. I did notice some skirt wear (long term) at that skinny ratio. We've gone to 50:1 FWIW.
@@richardflagg3084 Ya I don't run my saws that lean on oil. I run 50:1 Klotz so it smells fast!
For 1 tank at 100:1 that sure is dirty oil in the combustion chamber,the wash pattern! All I can see is carbon maker down the road especially if someone didn't keep a saw tuned or ran at half throttle a lot. Maxima formula k2 at 40:1 nowhere close to that dirty with over 10 tanks and can still see the top of a new piston without any dirty stuff on it
I will stick to my VP full synthetic in 16oz bottle at 40:1.
VP is good stuff for the money. I have a couple bottles I'm working through before I get to my bottles of AMSOIL Interceptor and Dominator. My younger brother said he runs the VP oil in is 93 CR250 without issue when he can't find his proffered oil.
All oils mentioned in both above comments may be suitable for high BMP 2T Motorcross bikes, they are really poor choices for chainsaws. Much better running a high quality mineral or semi synthetic oil. It's not that those expensive full synthetics are bad oils they are a top held synthetic product, they don't combust well with n low output commercial 2T engines like what we have in a chainsaw. You'll actually notice the performance change going between full synthetics & mineral oil in a saw. One oil assists combustion (mineral) the the full synths resist combustion. Enough experience will teach U this.
@@aussiehardwood6196 Actually anything that is either JASO-FD rated or that says it can be used where JASO-FD oils are required can be used in chainsaws. The JASO-FD rating is used for oil that is meant for use in hand held power equipment.
AMSOIL Saber is JASO-FD certified because it's designed for small power equipment. VP-Racing is also JASO-FD certified and is sold in the lawn and garden section of a few stores here in town.
AMSOIL Dominator is indeed meant for newer power-valve based dirt bikes. According to Richard's findings it is a JASO-FB rating. Which is an older oil rating before JASO-FD, which can still be used in a chainsaw it just has to be mixed a little richer.
AMSOIL Interceptor is aimed for use in snowmobiles, that's why there's a few places in my area that sell it. But it says on the back of the bottle (Use in ALL two-stroke snowmobiles, motorcycles, atvs, pwcs, AND where API TC or JASO-FD oils are specified.)
Not all synthetics burn dirty and not all semi-synthetics burn clean it all depends on the make.
Richard has tested AMSOIL Saber along with VP Racing and they both burn clean. Saber burns incredibly clean because it's designed for running in hand held power equipment. For a racing oil Dominator burns clean but not as clean as Saber so it can still be used in a chainsaw if that's all you have on hand.
All synthetics burning dirty is an old wives-tale. If your fuel still burns dirty you're mixing too much oil or your oil is just cheap sooty trash.
The Opti-2 is like Schaeffer 2 stroke oil the base oil is junk group 1&2 and just a little synthetic the only thing they got going for them are the additives but the schaeffer is got cleaners in the oil because it is a boat motor oil the Opti-2 does not from what I have seen on the top of the piston at a 100-1. You can not beat Amsoil saber, the treemonkey showed a video where he tore down a ms 661 it had a lot of carbon on the underside of the piston that's bad
100:1 ? not for me. But Motul 710 40:1 is what I run. For a test, please😄
Soon Sir, Soon
Exciting!
Looking forward to it!
To my knowledge all outboards specify 1:100
At least the yamahas I have owned. I wonder how marine 2stroke oil compares
Are they variable oil injection now?
@@richardflagg3084 I dont know what ratio the autolube system uses. But 1: 100 premix
@@richardflagg3084 but yes the injection/autolube are variable since they are crank driven
Marine 2 stroke is designed to run in a water cooled engine that does not get very hot like a chainsaw.
@@Idahoprepper71 To quote a famous TH-camr, "We're gonna test that".
Any oil can run at 100 to 1 but why. Oil seals the rings so you get better compression. As long as you re-jet for the difference. I use to run 20 to 1 in my race bike because my engine builder did alot of testing.
To thin and if you thicken it up I bet it carbons everything up
South Carolina? So you all burn palm trees or what? Lol
Interesting.. too skinny for me to sleep at night.