Home battery system WITHOUT solar PV! Does it pay for itself?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 พ.ค. 2024
- Check out our latest video where we have installed this battery system just to charge from cheap overnight electricity. Does it pay to get a system like this?
Let us know your thoughts and questions in the comments! - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I switched to Agile in early March and bought a 9.5 Givenergy battery - no solar. Costs: December: 26p per kWh (on Octopus Flexible), Mar/April: 11p per kWh. For me in winter, that's a saving of £115 per month. And in the last week, with all the negative charges, this dropped to 5p per kWh.
It's a no-brainer.
Thanks for sharing!
Octupus go tariffs as of today would give even better payback. What surprises me is that you did not mention that if the customer had both solar and battery installed at the same time there would be no VAT to pay and there for a further big saving. Thanks for the content :)
Is the VAT not payable and grants for Air Source Heat Pumps and the like, only available if you get a company to install it? Nothing for the DIYer?
Look around the Octopus website carefully. There is at least one better domestic tariff than Go. Our Octopus tariff was negotiated in September, giving us 5 hours at 8.25p at night and 39.6p for the standard tariff. we could have arranged for a lower price for a shorter off peak time, but the 5 hours suits us far better. We recharge our EV and home storage batteries at night and hardly touch the mains supply during the remaining 19 hours. Our daily Winter spending has plummeted, compared to our September expenditure and, based upon that very unfavourable comparison, we're saving over £4 per day; about £1,500 per year. Assuming that prices of electricity remain constant (they will not, of course), we'll have saved the cost of the battery installation within about 5 years. If prices rise, as expected, then I anticipate that the installation would have paid for itself long before 2028. We'll be adding PV during that time.
Very tidy install mate. Nice to see a company taking pride in their work 👍.
Nicely done. However, show the true finished results. The customer’s utility bill is what’s needed to see “actual” results. That’s the final proof of concept. Cheers. Bang on job!
Great video! I'm currently trying to work out if adding a battery to our solar install will be worth the extra costs, but with the prices changing so much right now it's hard to make any accurate calculations. One thing most people seem to be missing out though is the lost interest from keeping £7500 (or whatever sum) in the bank, especially with some banks now offering around 5% interest. Of course if one needs to take out a loan then interest payments also need to be factored in instead. Hopefully with more home batteries coming to market we'll see the prices come down in the not so distant future, so I'm probably going to hold off on a battery for now, even though I'll miss out on the VAT saving from having it all installed at the same time which does suck a little!
your client is a genius- i have just done the same thing . Just installed ducts from the shed for possible pv at some stage. nice one
Thank you for this nice vlog. This format without doubt will be a massive market. 👍👍
An absolutely brilliant video! Thank you Sam. You've simply justified why I went with this exact solution. It makes total sense today, especially if the electricity tariffs continue to increase in the coming years. You've nailed it in the video though, really great presentation.
so is the system setup to operate with the batteries during day time? and can you set it up to only operate with the batteries during power outages?
Love your videos and the simple honest talk showing IF you have the money you can reduce your costs over time Without Solar Pv 👍
Excellent video and a great install. I'd need a 15kwh solution to meet 100% of our household needs each day. The user interface and the data make for a very intuitive system. This seems to be an attractive option for energy storage.
You are a superb teacher. Excellent, clear explanation. Thank you.
An outstanding simple presentation.
Excellent vid, very useful and informative. £7.5k for 11kW battery is about £680/kw installed inc vat which is a great price/kW. As always oval’s installations are completed to the highest levels of professionalism, a joy to see such craftsmanship. Small matter on the blackboard you got the numbers the wrong way round 😉 bulb “ev” tariff is 10.1p/kWh 2-6am, 39.63p/kWh and standing charge goes up to 44.5p/day. Just need a smart meter. 20% vat on the £7500 is £1500!! 0% vat if solar and battery done at same time. Surely could have put a couple of panels up top for 1500 ready to expand and put that 1500 to better use?? Many thanks for your vid chaps👍
Or install yourself, 14kWh for £5200.
(Plus inverter)
@@philware1546 and not be able to get MCS for export and no warranty on the product / installation? Unless of course you have all the certificates to install yourself
@@MrLegend139 why do you need to export when it's all going into the battery?
Warranty comes with the products. Pylontech is 7+ years.
Getting some MCS guy to bolt a battery to the wall and connect up a few cables costs thousands and thousands more. You're not going to repay that from the "export" for years. Or if you do, you've got a way too small battery for the PV system.
@@philware1546 Without certification (as required by the electricity suppliers) how do you stop the battery from feeding back into the mains when power cuts occur?
@@Jonnybravo6742 BimbleSolar. £1300 for a 3.5kWh battery. Buy four of them. Pylontech US3000C
Excellent video. System looks great, app is really clear, and a superb job on the payback maths.
I was wondering about that 15p day rate! That explains it all. (Install was before summer 2022.) Very good video.
Another excellent video. 15p daytime rate and 5p overnight is very low. Lucky customer. Still nice to see the calculation and all anyone needs do is substitute their own tariff.
Great work I wish you worked here in Ireland I'd have you do my whole system in a heartbeat
Thanks for the video! I’ve been tempted to look into a setup like this for a while now. Here in Australia I pay 13c/kWh overnight but 47.5c/kWh during the day so that makes it even more attractive. We have solar as well but get limit benefit from the panels as we’re surrounded by tall trees that cast a lot of shade.
belgium is 42c kwh now. night tarrif is no longer allowed.
Excellent video. Have been considering both batteries and solar for some time. Currently have Go for the EV, so to know we just add battery now and solar later is great. Thank you.
Even though it is done a lot, I thought it was against the electrical regulations to clip cables to fencing and that the earth rod should be contained in a enclosure, with a warning label. If they lose the earth connection they could be in big trouble.
Thank you for this video it was simply and clearly delivered and I have learnt a lot from it, there is no doubt that all property owners will have give serious thought to installing such systems. If we all go this route will the energy suppliers continue to provide the cheap overnight tariffs and we do not want their high cost daytime energy.
Thank you!
Thanks for the video. I'm looking for something similar in the states. This strategy is called peak shaving.
Superb video, the Alpha system is a very neat and tidy solution.
Nowadays 7.5p 4 hours and 39p for us !
Rally, cool, thanks for an in-depth look, it's very interesting stuff!
It seems to me that if you can reduce the charging current at night it will last longer. It seems you said there is a four hour low rate charge window that you charge in two hours. Batteries last longer if you charge them more slowly.
Fantastic - you're explanation was great - thanks. Also, as someone at college learning to be an electrician, the quality of your work is clearly exceptional. Well done and all the best. Connor
Thank you Connor! Best of luck with the college work! Stick at it!
Perfect explanation why and how
Nice video easy to follow the numbers.
Completely clear and easy to understand. Beautifully done. By the way, are these batteries Li based. I assume they are. Wouldn't it be great if we could access some of the up and coming batteries for static applications that don't use Li. There are ZnBr, SbCa, Na and a range of redox batteries based on Fe and V. All should be cheaper than Li batteries once they get market share and all can be fully charged and discharged with no reduction in longevity. All have longer lives than Li batteries. Best of all, reducing the demand for Li might just reduce the cost of Li batteries and hence the cost of electric cars making them available to a greater number of customers.
Fantastic video Sam. The Alpha 5 is a beast! I have the 3+ at home.
Like me you were probably originally annoyed that Alpha only allowed hourly intervals for start/stop charging. But after a year of nagging they finally changed it to 15min intervals! Click my name to see my videos on it.
People thought I was mad when I told them the payback on my system. However, the sums are stacking on favour to get a set up like this or even better with some solar which the feed in will also improve. Another great video Sam 👍🏻
It surprises me how folk never compare battery payback with car purchase which will never pay them back (unless they're a taxi driver)
We all have different outlooks on life. Cheaper night time electricity is *generally* greener.
After 5 (or 7) years, what other investment would yield you 20% payback (after the capital had been paid back)?
@@terryjimfletcher The problem is it doesn't yield you 20% return after 5 or 7 years. The calculations fail to include battery degradation which is currently claimed at ~2% per year for EV lithium batteries. Which is probably based on the fact that most people don't discharge their 60+WHr EV battery fully every day(that's over 150 miles per day or 50K miles per year, the average is only ~10K miles per year). If you take it at 2%(likely more but no data) then after 5 years you're down to 90% usable capacity. It also doesn't take into account that batteries have a cycle of charge and discharge rating. Currently up to ~4k for realistic 70% deep discharge and maybe 2.5k for a 100% depth of discharge. In 5 years you exhausted 1800 of your 2.5k rated cycles. Your battery after year 5(break even) is rated to last another 700 cycles of about 2 years. 10 Warranty does not likely include exhaustion due to wear and tear from over use. That is 18%(90% usable battery capacity so it's not 20% return) return in both years 6 and 7 after which the battery will likely give up. So 36% return after 7 years or ~5% average annual return for 7 years. And that's using the 5 year figures and assuming that the inverter and all other components keeps on going reliably after 5 years. You take the risk that if it takes 6 years to payback then your return drops to 2.5% and you lose money if payback takes longer than 7 years.
That sounds more plausible.
The battery costs haven’t significantly changed and I’m not sure where the confidence comes from that the technology will improve.
I’m buying an electric van and this is because all my work is local and I have a reasonable chance of powering it on Eco7.
I could boast that I am an early adopter like these young enthusiastic people. Or I could recall how my milk was delivered 50 years ago on a float with a pile of lead acid batteries under the floor.
Load a modern electric van with heavy milk and see how you far you get?
How far we’ve come.
Great video! Thanks Sam
Your calculations assume 100% efficiency for charge/discharge. What is the efficiency of the charge discharge cycle? Also what is the allowed capacity loss for the 10 year warranty? Should the capacity used for the calculation should be the average guaranteed capacity?
Agree, AC-DC-AC will incur losses of at least 20%. 11KW battery wont be able to discharge the full 11KW. There's also an assumption in the calculations that all of the battery capacity will be used everyday of the year, this is unlikely especially during summer months. And owner is likely to go on holiday for a few weeks, ect. I have PV and would love a battery, but even with that I cant make the sums add up
There’s also the 20% of the 11 KW which is reserved for the UPS just in case of a power cut - so only 8.8 KW is usable, not the full 11Kw. But I like the idea & principle. Atm the Octopus Agile Tariff is not available for new customers because electricity prices have been consistently high but they are becoming more erratic again - so those without an EV maybe it’s one to watch as this system would work very well with a tariff like Octopus, particularly if Octopus start paying the customer £1.00 for every kWh offset from the peak period 4-8pm (not every day though 😉, just on selected days - I guess as an experiment).
Excellent video just like the rest! I would be really interested in adding the back up facility to my system given the general uncertainty regarding potential outages. I went looking for the Alpha Back up distribution board but could not identify it. Can you help?
Nice video Sam. You emphasised that one assumption is the battery must deplete fully every day for these calculations. The other critical factor is the difference between peak and off peak costs. Octopus have just announced that new contracts will have a 12p off peak and ~40p peak rate on the GO tariff. There's no doubt in my mind that batteries have faster payback than solar PV, and if people are working to a restricted budget they should consider battery only.
The critical factor isn't whole battery capacity depletion, it's meeting your home's daily consumption from the battery.
If the battery only provides 50% of the daily requirement then you'd need to adjust the calculations - saving less.
Is you are comparing system capacities then you'd run the calls for each system based on how much they could supply. There will be a sweet-spot between capacity and payback period.
BTW our presenter got the last two payback calcs wrong, it's always system cost divided by annual saving, the graphics and his narration showed the opposite.
James is right.
You can use a bigger capacity battery, and it is not fully depleted each day, but that battery will cost more which increases the pay back time.
@@terryjimfletcher Our modelling here showed the best ROI occurs when the usable battery capacity was just over half the daily usage. The reason is that it allows you to go onto a cheap off-peak tariff. During spring and autumn you can charge the battery of both grid and solar and summer you charge off just the sun. Winter sucks, but it's still cheaper than not having a battery, and you don't have to buy twice as much battery, they are NOT cheap.
@@BooBaddyBigYes, but the point of this video was that there is no solar.
@@TOM-TOM-TOMIt depends on the rate differences. For solar it will depend on what net-metering deal you can get. If your power is only from the gov't options are limited. With a battery, you know you can charge every day so it doesn't need to be more than 80% of daily use. With off grid, the battery has to be much bigger due to lack of sun and winter.
My primary concern is that you invest in this and then some oil loving retro-politician wrecks the arrangements upon which you based your investment.
Brilliant presentation.
Glad you liked it!
Very interesting video. I am installing Solar and was thinking about a propane backup generator as for equal to or less the cost of two 3KW batteries I can provide backup power day or night, sun or no sun etc.......... However I didnt factor in comparing the savings if using grid power at night to store energy (daytime light used to provide power and some storage). We currently dont have an available electric incentive for night time but it may be coming and then your video is very germane! Thanks.
Great video... but when are you taking new enquiries ?
would love to have a system like this
Good stuff, the maths evolve around the elec companys charges therefore you are held over a barrel as to the financial success. I like the full package; that is with solar to a greater level of independence and kick petrol into touch with a charging point!
Good idea, but be conservative with payback period. Add typical 20% to that payback period to account for battery storage/conversion losses; also after 5 years expect to have lost 20% storage capacity due to battery degradation.
Great install, just what I’ve been thinking of doing as my roof space is complicated and has a lot of tree shade so solar is expensive and not very efficient. For the payback calculation shouldn’t you use the cheapest daytime rate available rather than comparing it to the daytime rate of the variable tariff? My understanding is that the daytime rate on a variable tariff is higher than a standard tariff, so comparing the saving between the night/day rates on a variable tariff is not a real saving, because you would choose a cheaper daytime tariff if you didn’t have a battery. Also any electricity you draw from the grid during daytime would be more expensive than the standard tariff so would have a negative impact on the saving calculation.
This is surprising, but it's a new system, and they are already fully discharging the battery, I'd have gone for more capacity. This would give your customer more flexibility, particularly when they add solar and the capacity reduction over time.
I do like the compact design of the system.
This will surprise you....11months I installed a Smile 5 13.3kw with its own 5kw inverter 16pv panels 425w each.. I also run a 5kw Sungrow with 16 panels 425w feeds direct to house. In Australia QLD.. From zero to full ie 6am to 9pm the battery is fully charged, During the day, the whole system produces around 9-11kw of power constantly so I am able to run 4 x 6kw air cons and 1.5kw swimming pool pumb and still spare going into the grid and already $650 aud already in credit with electric supplier as I feed in also any excess. I pay off the system of $12k aud in 3years based on the old costs I would had to pay without solar...At present my profit is $3400aud in 11 months.. When sun goes down the normal house usage drains the battery by 3am, but if I use the air cons from 5pm to 9pm plus cooker etc the battery is dead by midnight, so I just about to add another 2nd 13.3kw battery so I can use aircons for 3 hrs plus before bedtime and take pressure off the batteries plus feed in will be more and lots of spare power for additional usage ie considering pool heater so can use pool all years round....Have solar hot water separate so we have no energy bills. SO far we 100% happy with the system and software is easy and great to use.
Great vid. Very few on this topic. What are charging/discharged losses with that inverter/battery combo?
I have the Alpha with battery myself. But mine is the older one 3kw inverter and 3x2.9kwh storage.
Fantastic video, thoroughly enjoyed it. Also the “sadistic” comment 😂
Interesting video and echoes my situation. Much though I would love to install solar my property is leasehold and the freeholder won't allow it. I've got a GivE All-in-one with 13.5 kwh battery and now rarely use any peak rate electricity at all! My house is all electric with storage heating and hot water plus I have a Tesla which also charges off peak. Unsurprisingly I can get close to the main fuse (100a) limit if I'm not careful but so far things have worked well. I'll soon be on the same tariff as your customer . The other benefit of such a system is the mains backup. In the event of a grid failure my setup can support house load up to 6kW with a switchover so fast that even my WiFi router stays online!
Great video.
This is exactly what I have been working out recently.
We will now get a better payback by installing a second battery, rather than installing Solar.
My current Octopus GO tariff is 37p peak and 7.5p for 4 hours off peak 00:30 - 04:30.
Rather than a second battery also consider buying a share in a wind turbine. Look at Ripple Energy, currently they pay 9.64 pp kWh generated & dependent on what % of hour home consumption needs (up to 120% is permitted) will determine how much you get credited on to your electricity bill at the beginning of the following month. I’m on a Octopus Go tariff same as you (7.5 pp kWh atm) but also have a Tesla Powerwall which tends to run the house during the day. On Monday & Tuesday my part of the turbine generated in excess of 20kWh on both days which pays a big chunk of my EV charging in the midnight to 0430 slot. My investment was £2k for an estimated return of 3000 kWh generation pa. When Ripple fixes the price with Octopus next year the price p kWH is likely to be higher than the current 9.64 op kWh agreed on at the beginning of this year. Here’s my referral code if it interests you: rippleenergy.com?ogu=817
Fantastic video mate keep it up
Nice installation. Shame ours was not given the same attention.
Battery systems without solarPV esp in high tariff difference markets are a smart way of saving $$. Energy in the UK will only go higher over the next year so their system may pay itself off in 2-3 years!
Our 5.7kW solarPV and 10kWh battery will pay itself back on $9900 cost in about 7-9years. We are on the east coast of Australia.
Great video. Just wondering how much the UPS adds to the install and why you need it if you've already got the batteries? Is it just a case of the batteries aren't set up for that and need an independent UPS??
It'd be really interesting on a video like this to see some of the design considerations around the choices made for that equipment. 11kWh/day as a system constraint seems odd if they're having a full 100% discharge every day per your illustration. The other limitation of the charge/discharge rate... I'm assuming that's something which is optional and based on a pattern of household consumption?
All new to me - so content like this is fascinating and thought provoking. Good stuff!
These batteries come in units of 5.5 kWh, so it might not be worth it (to this customer) to add another 5.5 kWh (capital cost) and charge it from the mains (current cost). Although they might save a little extra on days when the 11 kWh is not enough.
Octopus Go is four hours of cheap electricity so if the max charge rate is 4.6kW then 4 x 4.6 = 18.4kWh so that would he as large as you would want to go in terms of storage.
wouldn't the owner still shift some usage into the off peak time, I know i certainly would.
I have Economy 7, (7 hours of cheaper electricity) but hard to shift usage to those hours. The consumption during night hours hardly comes to 3kW. Where daytime is 8-9 kW. That's why this this installation looks lucrative. The difference between tariffs is 30p . So that brings payback down to 7 years.
@@neilbridgeman7768 You could change to Octopus Go Faster and get 5 hours or Intelligent Octopus for 6 hours
Great video Sam. May I ask why BESS has to disconnect mains earth line during UPS backup mode? or you just assuming physical damage might caused that blackout that might cause losing earth line? is temporary N-GND junction at backup box needed? or RCBO can do its work without?
Brilliant video
What a great solution. Is the UPS solution only available with this battery and inverter system or can it be added to say a Solar edge PV and Battery set up?
Battery power is only going to get better and make more sense financially.
Not to mention this gives you resilience in case of outages.
Could you list the main components (models) in the install? Alpha ESS looks good.
Exactly what Im looking for - Uphill battle with local installers - they just don't seem to get it and keep pushing Solar/Battery at me
Nice:
Q1 - is the UPS board still limited to 4.6kW during non-UPS mode? Or is the inverter diverted when not in UPS mode?
Q2 - how are the two earthing systems separated? You have one CU on a PME and one on a TT? Both within touching distance of one another.
Good stuff. I'm sure I'm not the first to point out the maths error in the blackboard graphic though, It should show 7500 / 1062.15 You have this the other way round. The answer though is fine. 7 years. You do this twice. The second time it shows 1405.25 / 7500.
As I said, this is good stuff, but going through the trouble of showing the workings-out, then writing it out the wrong way round - that's worse than useless. (not wanting to sound rude).
Interesting video, been thinking about installing batteries but at around £10k install and at the mercy of tarrifs it could take long time and there's no guarantee of the rates getting better every year which is putting me off.
Well done a fantastic explanation of your system. Is this system available in the US, Florida? Thanks for sharing, Ted in Sebastian, Fl.
Very informative, thank you. The installation looks really tidy and the Alpha ESS units are one of the most attractive I've seen. They do come at a premium above other brands such as Sunsynk. If half of all homes bought a battery storage system then night time rates would rocket because of the increase in demand during what is traditionally the low demand period.
Great video Sam. Do you have or can you do a dummies guide on what the earthing is for? I see electricians and yourself talking about but I don't know what it is, how it helps, etc. Cheers, Shez.
Hi brilliantly delivered video, with the inverter, couldn’t you install a larger kWh or is that the max
I can imagine everyone getting this type of system, the the energy supplier is going to think ,right we are not making enough money then crank the cheap rate up ,tbh the system you have supplied and installed is a great price , kind of makes you think why have solar panels 🤷♂️
I've seen a similar video where a Givergy system was used & where that inverter/controller followed the UK Octopus Agile Incoming and Outgoing tariffs so it took cheap rate energy & then exported it (at up to 100p per unit) during the day & using half-hourly grid tariff updates. . . Does the Alpha Smile5 system allow this scenario. . (maybe with or without PV) ?? Obviously this might increase savings/profits further.
Looking at his savings calculations, do you have any servicing cost to add to that and will all the equipment
last for 18 years. Only asking as I use to install UPS , in office’s and we had a yearly service and generally
replace the battery’s every 5 to 8 years. I know that things have moved on a lot since I did this but still curious
Really impressive video, best I've seen from ease to follow.
I was going to do exactly the same with a solax arrangement but then my supplier went into liquidation and I got moved to a supplier of last resort - British Gas. Under their arrangements they advise I can't get economy 7 or any other cheap rate so it made the battery addition pointless at present. I already have full solar but we use all power generated and rarely export to the grid.
Beyond adding more solar any ideas as to how I can cheaply charge the batteries without a low-rate tarriff? I must admit I'm at a bit of a loss over any other thoughts at this moment 🤔 Many thanks for any advice ☺️
hi I have only just seen this video & the comments. Can you go to a supplier that has low over night tariff like octopus energy
Most suppliers won't allow you to change at the moment, but the good news is that in the last fortnight British Gas have got in touch to say they made a mistake, and I can now be on an economy 7 tariff. So my plans are back on, had an updated quote for 9x400 panels, 17.4kwh batteries (1main, 2 slave, Solax) for £14,000. Sounds reasonably good but I'm a bit out of touch now, anyone's advice if greatly appreciated. Thank you.☺️
@@Raf-zu5le You need to work out whether solar has much value! being off grid saves you money BUT the grid is the most reliable of supplies, your power comes from assorted places by various routes to be at your home for 99.999% of the time, It's hard for one system to have that sort of reliability. Remember that you pay a daily standing charge regardless of how much you consume
Very interesting. What is the expected life of the Battery Pack? And how does the Alpha compare to others - Tesla Powerwall and SolarEdge for example. And what does the end of life look like, - The battery stores less or is slower to charge and discharge or both. This should impact the ROI calculations. If it was a linear decrease in storage of say 1% / year you could add that into the calculation. We are looking at adding a battery to do exactly the same on Octopus Go rate that we use to charge a Tesla Model 3 every night.
Some car batteries have been less than 1% per year. So would be a very small headroom/capacity decrease
Great video. Can this system be connected to a solar array with micro inverters?
Great video and very nice work, any idea about the power losses from charging and discharging batteries, it is not ideal and there should be charging/discharging losses due to copper, heat... Etc.
Thanks it will most likely be a few % either way 👍
Thanks for this informative video, very professional presentation! Our roof is not ideal for solar PV, but a home battery might be a good option for us. You mentioned no export on several occasions in the video, but presumably this system can be used for energy arbitrage on a tariff like Octopus Flux?
One of the missing links on most systems currently is a force discharge. I don’t believe it will be long until this is standard
This video was really informative thank you. One question I have to ask is how many panels would you need to charge this system?
Thanks! That really depends on the homes consumption and when that consumption is drawn. How we usually a 3.68kw system can charge a battery like this successfully. However it is very individual to the property.
Well produced video. Shame your maths division got muddled up on the third chalk board though. (25:00) Keep up the good work but keep an eye on the detail. 🙂
Nice video thanks. They will probably never add solar because payback saving will only be at the cheap rate. It would take ages. The risk is that the tariffs we enjoy today may not last forever.
Thanks for the message. Or the gap may increase? It’s all a bit of a gamble however I’d prefer to have something to help me through if times get even harder! 👍
worth considering not everyone is solely focused on immediate ROI. The increased stability in pricing against future rises is important to me for example even if payback isn’t super fast. Current high peak rates is helping payback time though but without solar relies on low ToU rates hanging around
Agree. I opted for a 6kwh solar and 8.2kwh battery. On the Go tariff, and it's a nice to have, but like yourself, don't count on those cheap rates being around forever
@@stuartburns8657 its not necessarily about the cheap rates, it's about the difference between the day and night time rates that gives you the savings and therefore the impetus to have the system.
If the difference was 1p then it'd be crazy to consider, but if it was 50p, then even if the day time price was £1/kWh you'd still be quids in within 4 years.
@@terryjimfletcher Outside of Octopus Go James, I'm not aware of too many of the old Economy 7 style tariffs tbh, but I get your point
Thinking of same thing myself. Can these units be installed outside. In sheltered shed type unit attached to the house as the garage isn't an option in my case
If that battery is really fully charging and discharging every day, it's likely to have a horrible lifespan. Lithium ion batteries are normally only supposed to do 80-90% discharge to get full life. The other thing you haven't included is the charging and discharging efficiency. That's normally about 95% or so in each direction. So really you're having to put more than another kilowatt hour into the battery to charge that you don't get back.
Agree
Great skills! But please update soon for 2023 (nonEV) tariffs. Won't most of your customers oversize for longer life and allow up to 14% losses without PV?
What is the required ohms for that earth rod? I had trouble getting it low enough for my EV charge point earth rod.
Hi, this all looks very nice, but what happens after 5 or 10 years when the inverter and/or battery does go, I imagine at the moment they are easy to source and replace, but will this be the case in years to come, can you use a differnt inverter/battery, or retro fit in this case (I expect battery technologic to improve)? As I understand it givenergy batteries you cna force feed back to the grid (i guess at a preferential rate), is this advisable or do you prefer the alpha (which is no exportable)?
15p daytime tariff… how long ago was this shot 😅 still very informative, I love seeing that stats on all this, been trying to work out what I’ve saved so far with solar battery and EV to work out payback but it’s a little hard when the EV is chucked into the mix. Also got to rememebr these figures are for EV tariffs so if you don’t have an EV you can’t get the tariff, or that applies for Octopus go now anyway
Fixed tariff coming to the end me thinks
My 15p day time tariff ended Sept 2022. Those that fixed Feb2022 will have simla day time prices until 2023.
If one is lucky they are still on 4p / 14p with GO till June 2023
What’s the biggest inverter you can get? Ideally looking a 7kw peak discharge with a minimum 15kwh battery. Would you recommend alpha or Libbbi?
Well explained, and got to say, I’m surprised more don’t go down this route. I’m looking at the MG4 car, which has V2L. Surely it’s a matter of time before V2G is the norm, and we use the car battery capacity instead of the home battery? Would it not be wise to hold off installing large home batteries, and use the EV battery, if practical? Looks like good kit though.
Won't you need to errr drive your car around so it won't be there to provide power to the house? Or are you going to spend 30k upwards just to have a battery on wheels powering your house and not drive it anywhere?
@@makestuffwork9205 my car sits in my drive around 95% of the week.
I’d rather take advantage of cheap electric when I can and play the system.
This now makes sense to me. I currently have 3.2 Kw solar with 6.4 battery, 2x3.2 and although this has saved me money the winter is another issue. My solar would not be enough to charge extra batteries, So charging up on the low rate would make sense
Good video, there are a lot of people currently having this sort of set up installed due to the energy prices we are currently seeing and I think it will it will pay a huge part in the future in the U.K. Surely though even with a 10 year warranty on the battery system over a period of time the battery will become less efficient and not charge and discharge as well as it should. As the EV market continues to develop new batteries technology such as solid state batteries that can charge quicker and hold charge over great distances, I will be interested to see potentially a solid state home battery system. I think that could really be the future if it becomes cheap enough and readily affordable.
I think the Sodium-Ion batteries coming out next year will be more interesting for fixed storage. They should be a lot cheaper than the Lithium batteries.
Lifepo4 is pretty awesome for home energy storage today. It’s heavy and large but will outlive most of the electronic systems of the battery.
@@edc1569 yeah, had a DIY LiFePO4 battery powering my house in the day time, charged via Octopus Go, for over a year now. I was paying £20/month until the price change in Oct.
You should use the 32p k/Wh cap rate for your calculations. If I could switch to 15p, I would, there's no deals cheaper than the 32p price cap!
Looks a very nice n robust battery system
Thank you!
Liked your video, how difficult will it be to install batteries into my home, which has a 32amp ground source heat pump, and 24 Sanyo photovoltaic panels. I guess we would need to isolate the heat pump from the batteries. I would like to have a conversation to check the feasibility.
I want you to do my install. When are you taking on new custom becaue your website says you currently are not?
If the system is fully discharging every day, is this considered to be one cycle of the battery? If so, after 10 years, the battery will have cycled from fully discharged to fully charged 3650 times (10 x 365). Assuming it still works after this time, it will probably be now working at 80% capacity, but will still be worth having assuming that the electronics (capacitors etc) have not given up the ghost.
I'm a little confused so please tell me if I'm incorrect....I've paused the vid at 15:38 to consider the graph colours. There are a few blue (load) areas that exist at times where there is no battery charge (ie no green) and also no brown (grid).....so what powers the load??
And a small UPS in any home office will ensure absolutely no chance of any "very sensitive" electronics staying on during switchover - I still like to protect PC Towers / Workstations from grid events.
so is the system setup to operate with the batteries during day time? and can you set it up to only operate with the batteries during power outages?
I'm not good at sums so forgive me if I put a spanner in the works here... If you get this using a loan then interest payments and the period of the loan will skew those figures a bit, won't they? Then I'm trying to work out what happens to the figures near the end of the battery life...or are the batteries, like car batteries, likely to last much longer than their guarantee? I guess the price of replacement is wholely speculative but is it just the batteries or the rest of the system that has a limited lifespan?
I am seriously contemplating going this route, I have an ev but not sure if I can get the car close enough to charge from home so don't know if the tariff available would work. Having said that the removal of power insecurity would probably be worth the price.
If there's a power cut at night will the system switch to output and back to re-charging if there is time left on cheap rate...and what happens if there isn't time left on cheap rate? Can it be set to re-charge itself anyway as a contingency for power cuts?
Sorry, lots of questions! Glad you made this video though, it's been really helpful in prompting which questions to ask.👍😅🤯
Great explainer. I am buying a house with a PV system already installed but no battery setup. We are inheriting an Octopus FIT rate from 2014 which is better than you would get now i expect. Would the payback time be even quicker if we were to install a 11kwh battery primarily charged by the solar and any offpeak grid?
The beauty of the FIT for you and everyone is that it is not affected by getting a battery system. They read a generation meter and give you money based on the generation meter at a rate from 50 to 3p depending on how long ago the FIT was started. A battery installer will just know not to interfere with it. You can even get a 2nd array installed as long as you don't touch the original. I think you can replace broken inverters. You just can't upgrade that install
energy storage system with PV
you need to get your divisions the right way round. You were saying and writing divide the annual Saving by the cost when what you were doing and what you should have said and written is divide the cost by the annual savings.
The UPS is defo a necessary addition to an install in this climate with the risk of scheduled power cuts should gas supplies worsen.
Hi Sam. Was that £7500 installed or +? Very interesting vid. I've got PV but looking for battery storage (around 10kwh). What would you recommend from your experience (solar edge PV)?
I saw a great you tube review on myenergi new battery system on the fully charged TH-cam channel, looks like really good control options
@@boomish69 it's nearly twice the price of these though
What will be the total lifespan of the Alpha ESS if in that case aharged then discharged down to zero?
By putting the battery on a floor isn’t it in danger of introducing damp or possible exposure to water ingress if the floor is washed? I’d prefer it sitting on a kind of rubber riser blocks, just an idea.
Good shout