Yes we use the SiGe here in Ireland, it is the best one out there on data specs but also it is 1K more expensive than the Sofar powerall which has less depth, great for utility rooms. nothing lasts outside where we are!
Very interesting product. Not able to see any prices online or anything though, so my guess is they're quite pricey. If they can match GivEnergy prices, they're on to a winner.
A nice looking bit of kit, Mark. One or two things I noted during the install - design issues, not installer issues 🙂 - the AC power connector to the inverter doesn't give much room for the bend in the AC cable. Maybe the manufacturer should have a right-angled terminal connector as an option to make the electrician's life a wee bit easier! Secondly, the finished outdoor unit is very smart but I think I would be fitting some kind of mesh to close-off the gap at the back of the unit to prevent rodent damage to cables or wasp nests. The changeover contactor has to be break-before-make, of course, and so there is no guarantee that any equipment like routers or desktop PCs will not 'see' the grid drop out. I would always advise the use of UPS for these devices. The minimum delay before back-sync and automatic reconnection to the grid from island mode required by G99 is 20s (clause 10.3.4). I would say it should be a minimum of 60s if the installation is supplied from an overhead MV distribution network to allow any auto-reclosing equipment on the overhead feeder to have finished its sequence. Finally, I'm a bit wary of the use of a C125 incoming MCCB(?). Installations in rural areas supplied from pole-mounted transformers can have surprisingly low prospective fault currents, so a busbar fault in the gateway might not be cleared! Thanks for another very detailed and informative video.
Thanks! The connector space is pretty roomy tbh behind the cover panel. Perhaps deceptive on the video. But as an installer more than happy with wiring room at the inverter and gateway. Enclosure around cables is always a battle outdoors. That said rodents and wasps will find a way past most barriers. Absolutely correct this is not UPS but the time is in the milli seconds. We have tried this on multiple similar solutions from other manufacturers. Most past the router and PC test tbf to them. Which is incredible really. In terms of the OCPD we need to remember we are protecting faults within the installation. Those are selected based on design considerations. It can not be expected of manufacturers to provide a one size fits all. In the circumstances you describe the breakers can if required be changed. That said much like main tails into a regular consumer unit the service fuse is always a final catch all in terms of short circuit in the main switchgear. Luckily here we have plenty of fault current. Thanks for watching.
@@electrician247 Interesting. I want to know why Sigenergy IS claiming that the system IS a UPS here in Australia. I have 3 phase power feeding my home and I'm in the process of obtaining quotes on 24, 32 and 40kWh bank.
Hi great informative video. The product looks good but just wondered about RCD protection on cable supplying inverter outside. There is obviously no RCD protection from the gateway, I presume meaning cable would have to be run in containment or clipped direct the whole route, unless SWA used? Our last MCS inspection, the inspector required RCD protection if the system was installed outdoors no matter the cable type or installation method. This was also required to be a type B RCD. What are your thoughts on this Mark?
I would always encourage RCD protection for outdoor equipment but technically I make your MCS assessor wrong. The regulations are not what our opinions would like lol. If your cable installation method doesn't require RCD protection and the equipment connected on the end of it doesn't. Well then it doesn't lol. In terms of the type of RCD protection used that would depend on the inverter. Some will leak beyond the 6mA RDDC values a type A can cope with so type B would be required. If an MCS assessor made that argument towards myself it would be a fun one to bat around a bit with them lol. But often easier to do what they ask for lol. All that said you can configure various setups in the gateway. We have done that recently with 2 pole rcbos for EVSE chargers wired direct from the gateway. So you can install whatever you need really.
Impressive system. Better than Givenergy All in 1 imo with the mix and match plug in stack and fire safety features. The dc charger appears very expensive, so normal ac might be better for now. Regarding comms what does the 4g dongle do. Is it necessary if connecting cat 6 to the gateway?. Thanks for the video and information Mark
I wouldn't say it's better but has different capabilities. Stronger in some areas weaker in others. So many options on the market tbh! The Sigenergy products can use WiFi, Lan and 4G all at once. The thought process is one should always be available. During times of a local powercut may take out broadband to a town for example.
Great video as I am considering pretty much this exact config. The gateway is my sticking point tho. From what I can tell it is really only providing a UPS type feature if I am correct. We can still feed back to the grid without it. In the video it sound like there is a humm out of it when it is on the grid. That might affect where I would be putting it TBH.
Yes the gateway is just for backup purposes and bringing multiple generators into that system. You don’t need it just to use the system both for storage and import/export. It does humm a little as all contactors do Thanks Mark
Has there been any more information on the bi directional charging within the UK ( V2X V2G V2H V2L ) Holding out to know which system and which EV to buy. Thanks
That's really great to see another all in one to choose from. How does the price compare to Giv and the TP? I do like the look of this, it looks neat and tidy and i really like the inbuilt safety components. Great video, thanks.👍🙏
Great product. Just wondering about the warranty. This is throughput based , 23.7Mwh for a 8Kwh battery or 10 years to 70%. Too little for trading energy. And for charging cars. Do I miss the point...
Sort of missed the point yes. The batteries are not really intended for charging cars/vans etc. They can be utilised in that way but as identified you would be putting them under more use/strain. Most consumers want to utilise that energy in the home. Trading energy is perfectly possible with the combined approach SigEnergy offer. solar, V2H/V2G and battery combo.
Well Mark great video 👍🏻 just got a quote on the sigenergy 8kw system with 22 450w solar panels. Just wondering when the PV install video will be uploaded???
Another great video Mark. 1) You said a peak of 9000w from the battery in backup (off-grid) mode? The data sheet says 10 seconds. So does it take up to 10 seconds to be able to supply 9000w? Or can it supply up to 9000w peak for 10 seconds? 2) Would the discharge rate be limited by the 6 Kw inverter? Two 8Kw batteries could theoretically discharge 4Kw each, totalling 8Kw but the actual AC discharge limited to 6Kw by the inverter. 3) As the batteries are DC coupled could two 8Kw batteries charge directly from solar panels at 4Kw each simultaneously, or again, are you limited by the 6Kw inverter? So one battery charging at 100% rate (4Kw) and the second at 50% rate (2Kw), or split to both at 3Kw each? Thanks in advance for your answers.
1. 10s peak 9kW 2. The inverter would limit the AC output but not the DC power to an electric vehicle on the DC charger. They now have up to 12kW single phase inverters available this used to be the biggest, no more! 3. Yes DC from the panels can go direct to the batteries. It has a hybrid capability for both ac and dc coupling.
@@electrician247 Mark, I really appreciate your reply. Your passion for your work, industry and solar is evident and highlighted by all of the replies to the comments for all of your videos, very commendable 👏🏻 Could I ask a supplementary question 🫣 1) Does the gateway require any form of DNO permission or notification? I thought that some DNO’s are “uncomfortable” with systems that “island,” but can feed back. Is this system the advancement of this? I think you said the contactor will immediately “break” up on detection of power loss from the grid, thus preventing any back feed. Therefore, are the DNO’s accepting of that?
D'oh, I'd pretty much made up my mind to go with GivEnergy (but not the all-in-one due to present scalability & cost) but SigEnergy looks very interesting. DC charging module as well. Key point being is cost? Is it comparable with GivEnergy, which I can easily price check with other products. I've not found pricing on SigEnergy SigenStor. Good vid.
Should you be installing DC and AC isolation at the inverter location? Also- as for the gateway it’s just main tails in and tails out from backup MCB to consumer units? So many ways of installing systems just trying to figure out the best way 😅
You miss understand the application of an earth electrode in island mode systems. It is never a TT. It forms a TNS but I know what you mean in terms of an earth rod lol. One is present on the install already. We have the solar addition coming soon on this. Thanks
With the GE you'll need a solar inverter as well as isolators. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is all included so looks cheaper than the All in 1 and imo a much neater solution I.e less wires and trunking on show
how much are each of the 8kw modules for the system , I haven't heard anyone talk about the pricing yet so am not sure how it compares to others on price, also how much is the single phase gateway
@@markbennett9043 Hi Mark, absolutely. If you send details to mark@powersonic.co happy to help. It is just .co on the end and 18 years later that email address is still the worst business decision I ever made lol.
One of the Point guard energy reps answered this on a solar surge video recently. The standard, when finalized, should be as simple as a firmware update as all the hardware needed is in the device. So basically support for vehicles should be just an update away. I'm still staying firmly in the "I'll believe it when I see it" camp for now.
Good Product, but it must be installed under a roof or carport or in a garage, as Sigenergy clearly states this in their manual. Outside but not in the rain.
Varies on the number and type of battery modules as discussed in the video which also has links to the datasheets in the description. Very good specs on both though 💪
Stumbled across the Sigenergy stuff and it looks great - how does it compare to the Tesla Powerwall 3 that’s about to be released? Cost and performance. Ideally looking for a whole house backup
![[Live สด] การออกรางวัลสลากกินแบ่งรัฐบาล งวดวันที่ 16 พฤศจิกายน 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wPd7VFfWHIA/mqdefault.jpg)
Installed a three phase one last month along with their gateway. So easy to install and the user app is very good.
Hopefully with a Home Assistant integration hot on the heels.
Does the backup work across all 3 phases?
@@seancarter7909yes it does
Is the gateway a must if you are in urban area with a black out once in a blue moon? Does it offer other benefits?
@@seancarter7909 yes. It discharges wherever it’s needed
To the layman it looks a very well designed system, thanks for the video
Nice video. Very well explained also. Thanks!
Question : how much noise does the inverter itself make?
Pretty much none. The odd clunk as relays switch in during change of modes etc.
The gateway has a hum on the contactor so that's a consideration
Yes we use the SiGe here in Ireland, it is the best one out there on data specs but also it is 1K more expensive than the Sofar powerall which has less depth, great for utility rooms. nothing lasts outside where we are!
Really great video Mark. Thanks to yourself and Yogi I should be installing my first one next week. The gateway looks like a dream to connect up.👌🏼
Thats mate, appreciate it.
Very interesting product. Not able to see any prices online or anything though, so my guess is they're quite pricey. If they can match GivEnergy prices, they're on to a winner.
They are lower cost than GE.
A nice looking bit of kit, Mark. One or two things I noted during the install - design issues, not installer issues 🙂 - the AC power connector to the inverter doesn't give much room for the bend in the AC cable. Maybe the manufacturer should have a right-angled terminal connector as an option to make the electrician's life a wee bit easier! Secondly, the finished outdoor unit is very smart but I think I would be fitting some kind of mesh to close-off the gap at the back of the unit to prevent rodent damage to cables or wasp nests.
The changeover contactor has to be break-before-make, of course, and so there is no guarantee that any equipment like routers or desktop PCs will not 'see' the grid drop out. I would always advise the use of UPS for these devices. The minimum delay before back-sync and automatic reconnection to the grid from island mode required by G99 is 20s (clause 10.3.4). I would say it should be a minimum of 60s if the installation is supplied from an overhead MV distribution network to allow any auto-reclosing equipment on the overhead feeder to have finished its sequence. Finally, I'm a bit wary of the use of a C125 incoming MCCB(?). Installations in rural areas supplied from pole-mounted transformers can have surprisingly low prospective fault currents, so a busbar fault in the gateway might not be cleared!
Thanks for another very detailed and informative video.
Thanks! The connector space is pretty roomy tbh behind the cover panel. Perhaps deceptive on the video. But as an installer more than happy with wiring room at the inverter and gateway.
Enclosure around cables is always a battle outdoors. That said rodents and wasps will find a way past most barriers.
Absolutely correct this is not UPS but the time is in the milli seconds. We have tried this on multiple similar solutions from other manufacturers. Most past the router and PC test tbf to them. Which is incredible really.
In terms of the OCPD we need to remember we are protecting faults within the installation. Those are selected based on design considerations. It can not be expected of manufacturers to provide a one size fits all. In the circumstances you describe the breakers can if required be changed.
That said much like main tails into a regular consumer unit the service fuse is always a final catch all in terms of short circuit in the main switchgear. Luckily here we have plenty of fault current.
Thanks for watching.
@@electrician247 Interesting. I want to know why Sigenergy IS claiming that the system IS a UPS here in Australia. I have 3 phase power feeding my home and I'm in the process of obtaining quotes on 24, 32 and 40kWh bank.
@@davidissko9796 different regulatory requirements most likely. the system can behave like a UPS
Pitty it sits outside. Such a nice design unit.
I like all the features. Especially that DC charger option I've seen.
Defacto location in the times of PAS.
Very similar connectors and construction to huwaei products. Looks a gd system
Tell that customer to move that router off the floor and closer to the middle of the house 😅
Hi great informative video.
The product looks good but just wondered about RCD protection on cable supplying inverter outside. There is obviously no RCD protection from the gateway, I presume meaning cable would have to be run in containment or clipped direct the whole route, unless SWA used?
Our last MCS inspection, the inspector required RCD protection if the system was installed outdoors no matter the cable type or installation method. This was also required to be a type B RCD.
What are your thoughts on this Mark?
I would always encourage RCD protection for outdoor equipment but technically I make your MCS assessor wrong. The regulations are not what our opinions would like lol.
If your cable installation method doesn't require RCD protection and the equipment connected on the end of it doesn't. Well then it doesn't lol.
In terms of the type of RCD protection used that would depend on the inverter. Some will leak beyond the 6mA RDDC values a type A can cope with so type B would be required.
If an MCS assessor made that argument towards myself it would be a fun one to bat around a bit with them lol. But often easier to do what they ask for lol.
All that said you can configure various setups in the gateway. We have done that recently with 2 pole rcbos for EVSE chargers wired direct from the gateway. So you can install whatever you need really.
Great Video thank you, a system i've got my eye on.
If you want a proposal drop a message over to mark@powersonic.co it is just .co on the end cheers
Impressive system. Better than Givenergy All in 1 imo with the mix and match plug in stack and fire safety features. The dc charger appears very expensive, so normal ac might be better for now. Regarding comms what does the 4g dongle do. Is it necessary if connecting cat 6 to the gateway?. Thanks for the video and information Mark
I wouldn't say it's better but has different capabilities. Stronger in some areas weaker in others. So many options on the market tbh!
The Sigenergy products can use WiFi, Lan and 4G all at once. The thought process is one should always be available. During times of a local powercut may take out broadband to a town for example.
Great video as I am considering pretty much this exact config. The gateway is my sticking point tho. From what I can tell it is really only providing a UPS type feature if I am correct. We can still feed back to the grid without it. In the video it sound like there is a humm out of it when it is on the grid. That might affect where I would be putting it TBH.
Yes the gateway is just for backup purposes and bringing multiple generators into that system. You don’t need it just to use the system both for storage and import/export.
It does humm a little as all contactors do
Thanks
Mark
Excellent video, I wonder if the DC EV charger will be bi-directional.
It sure is mate
Has there been any more information on the bi directional charging within the UK ( V2X V2G V2H V2L ) Holding out to know which system and which EV to buy. Thanks
I think in the UK only Nio vehicles work so far. In Canada/US there are none.
That's really great to see another all in one to choose from. How does the price compare to Giv and the TP? I do like the look of this, it looks neat and tidy and i really like the inbuilt safety components.
Great video, thanks.👍🙏
It is under the price of those but they are all roughly similar on price tbh.
@@electrician247well, under is good, even if just a bit. Thanks Mark.👍🙏
Great product. Just wondering about the warranty. This is throughput based , 23.7Mwh for a 8Kwh battery or 10 years to 70%. Too little for trading energy. And for charging cars. Do I miss the point...
Sort of missed the point yes. The batteries are not really intended for charging cars/vans etc. They can be utilised in that way but as identified you would be putting them under more use/strain. Most consumers want to utilise that energy in the home. Trading energy is perfectly possible with the combined approach SigEnergy offer. solar, V2H/V2G and battery combo.
Have opted for a SIGEN over Tesla 3 , however I’m told the support from SIGEN could be much better particularly compared to TESLa .
They are growing that function. But yes Tesla has great customer support. Nothing wrong with Sig though on that front
Well Mark great video 👍🏻 just got a quote on the sigenergy 8kw system with 22 450w solar panels.
Just wondering when the PV install video will be uploaded???
Not much longer mate. We are a few months ahead on content recorded/release
Another great video Mark.
1) You said a peak of 9000w from the battery in backup (off-grid) mode? The data sheet says 10 seconds. So does it take up to 10 seconds to be able to supply 9000w? Or can it supply up to 9000w peak for 10 seconds?
2) Would the discharge rate be limited by the 6 Kw inverter? Two 8Kw batteries could theoretically discharge 4Kw each, totalling 8Kw but the actual AC discharge limited to 6Kw by the inverter.
3) As the batteries are DC coupled could two 8Kw batteries charge directly from solar panels at 4Kw each simultaneously, or again, are you limited by the 6Kw inverter? So one battery charging at 100% rate (4Kw) and the second at 50% rate (2Kw), or split to both at 3Kw each?
Thanks in advance for your answers.
1. 10s peak 9kW
2. The inverter would limit the AC output but not the DC power to an electric vehicle on the DC charger. They now have up to 12kW single phase inverters available this used to be the biggest, no more!
3. Yes DC from the panels can go direct to the batteries. It has a hybrid capability for both ac and dc coupling.
@@electrician247 Mark, I really appreciate your reply. Your passion for your work, industry and solar is evident and highlighted by all of the replies to the comments for all of your videos, very commendable 👏🏻
Could I ask a supplementary question 🫣
1) Does the gateway require any form of DNO permission or notification? I thought that some DNO’s are “uncomfortable” with systems that “island,” but can feed back. Is this system the advancement of this? I think you said the contactor will immediately “break” up on detection of power loss from the grid, thus preventing any back feed. Therefore, are the DNO’s accepting of that?
@easyyards3154 this is ENA approved but the dno will require request/informing of the connection
Creator use 8kWh and 5kWh can be mix? can sigen do this?
yes
Nice video and unit looks very neat…
Is that effectively working as an AC Coupled solution with no solar?
At the time of recording yes. Right now no lol.
Can it be used as AC Coupled or only as Hybrid with Solar?
When it is Hybrid does the ‘backup’ supply keep the inverter working ?
@@mark_just_mark Yes it can be run as battery only.Yes the inverter keeps running when paired with a gateway.
D'oh, I'd pretty much made up my mind to go with GivEnergy (but not the all-in-one due to present scalability & cost) but SigEnergy looks very interesting. DC charging module as well. Key point being is cost? Is it comparable with GivEnergy, which I can easily price check with other products. I've not found pricing on SigEnergy SigenStor. Good vid.
Sorry, spotted the same question, and answers, in the comments.
Should you be installing DC and AC isolation at the inverter location? Also- as for the gateway it’s just main tails in and tails out from backup MCB to consumer units?
So many ways of installing systems just trying to figure out the best way 😅
No Solar on this one as yet but absolutely DC and AC isolation both required. We have the final completion of this install to share soon.
Great video 👍
Great video but no TT earth installed?
You miss understand the application of an earth electrode in island mode systems. It is never a TT. It forms a TNS but I know what you mean in terms of an earth rod lol. One is present on the install already. We have the solar addition coming soon on this. Thanks
The obvious question is how does the cost compare to the Tesla PW and The GIvEnergy All-in -One?
It is lower cost than both. But price is all much of a muchness tbh. Value is key and pound for pound this is right up there with the GE AIO.
With the GE you'll need a solar inverter as well as isolators. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is all included so looks cheaper than the All in 1 and imo a much neater solution I.e less wires and trunking on show
doesn't seem to have any options in the US yet unfortunately (unless I missed it on the site when searching)
how much are each of the 8kw modules for the system , I haven't heard anyone talk about the pricing yet so am not sure how it compares to others on price, also how much is the single phase gateway
Speak with a local installer who will be best placed to advise. They are priced exceptionally well in terms of value.
Did you post the video for connecting up the PV on this project ?
It’s coming we are a few months ahead of recording etc
@@electrician247 Thanks for reply. I look forward to it.
What kind of price we talking comparing with fox ess I was thinking about. Where are you based mark? Looks.good system
We are in East Yorkshire. Price is competitive based on the spec etc.
Very interested in his system,would you fit in in Boston Lincolnshire?
@@markbennett9043 Hi Mark, absolutely. If you send details to mark@powersonic.co happy to help. It is just .co on the end and 18 years later that email address is still the worst business decision I ever made lol.
Do you know where the dc EV charger plugs into?
Stacks onto the system like the batteries and inverter do.
Pretty sure there is still not agreed V2H standard for CCS so that claim might be nonsense.
Above my paygrade. But this is coming to the UK in July. It is already in use in Germany.
One of the Point guard energy reps answered this on a solar surge video recently. The standard, when finalized, should be as simple as a firmware update as all the hardware needed is in the device. So basically support for vehicles should be just an update away.
I'm still staying firmly in the "I'll believe it when I see it" camp for now.
Good Product, but it must be installed under a roof or carport or in a garage, as Sigenergy clearly states this in their manual. Outside but not in the rain.
All of these systems require basic sheltering aside from the tesla power wall. Basics tbh.
they should put dc isolator outside in case of fire
DC isolators belong in the fixed wiring. We do 🤣
put sealent in holes in brick stops air and water
We do 🤣
What max charge an discharge rates?
Varies on the number and type of battery modules as discussed in the video which also has links to the datasheets in the description.
Very good specs on both though 💪
@@electrician247 just done online course this system is brilliant!
@@hondata05 where did you do the online course please?
Stumbled across the Sigenergy stuff and it looks great - how does it compare to the Tesla Powerwall 3 that’s about to be released? Cost and performance. Ideally looking for a whole house backup
Unfortunately 6kW is not enough to run my house on backup or off-grid in times of high power prices. Have to g Tesla for this.
@@John-B91 do you mean 6kw of panels? Sigenergy can be up to 38kw battery in one stack I think.
LFP chemistry?
Yes