*Learn more about the 1983 spillway cavitation* in our video *BEHIND THE DROUGHT 2* ▶ th-cam.com/video/J19iRm1xGEY/w-d-xo.html Shout out to our *SUPERTHANKS* viewers for this month: *sammyhead ⚒3 | Juice_2288 | genebond991 | Bambisgf77* We are driven by viewers like YOU! Comment below and let us know what you'd like to see covered next ✍🤠 *👇👇👇*CONNECT WITH US AND WATCH RELATED VIDEOS HERE*👇👇👇* > MOJO EARTHWORKS SHOP (Etsy) mojoearthworks.etsy.com > Mojo Adventures MORE! (B-Roll Channel) youtube.com/@Mojo-Adventures > Instagram: @Mojo.Adventures instagram.com/mojo.adventures/ > Twitter (X): @MojoAdventure twitter.com/MojoAdventure > Driving music 🎶, Mojo Merch, NFTs & More!: linktr.ee/mojo.adventures *Watch related episodes:* Making it RAIN: Cloud Seeding the Desert: th-cam.com/video/VsxTQy72XJk/w-d-xo.html [Colorado River Watch #02] Wall Street Eyes BILLIONS in River Rights: th-cam.com/video/OLJS9gMsBiQ/w-d-xo.html Lake Mead UPDATE April 2024: th-cam.com/video/B92MHwkuoXc/w-d-xo.html [Colorado River Watch #01] California ALFAFA Farms: th-cam.com/video/OLJS9gMsBiQ/w-d-xo.html
Honestly given what we know now they should completely do away with Glen Canyon Dam and Lake Powell and just let the river run into Lake Mead and Hoover Dam. Would be much easier to manage honestly from just about every angle. What little power it generated compared to Hoover could be replaced and exceeded with renewables over the course of a decade or two while being supplemented by the rise in Mead's level in the interm. All the while Glen Canyon can be taken down slowly until it's no more and the river is returned to it's former self. Costly, for sure, however it beats all the alternatives in the long run I'd wager.
That should definitely be the plan during drought years at minimum! Just let the river flow above Mead. Unfortunately as we see there is a bunch of problems that need fixed first and the USBR still wants a plan to offset the hydropower. It seems like solar would be an obvious choice in that area, as the Glen Canyon Dam doesn't produce much power in the grand scheme of things. I think rooftop solar around Page could offset most of their needs seeing how it is a small town. Once the old issues are solved only then can we move forward. It seems like on the river it's always "1 step forward, 2 steps back".
.....you say that like that hasn't been the American way for 100 years. We've got a nuclear dome leaking into the ocean from the 60s that they were well aware would be a problem lol, shit most of the dams we rely on today were built were built in the first half of the 1900
@@richardcornelius1050 you all didn’t learn anything from this video, did you? 😆 The issue IS the low water level! When it’s at or near historic lows, there’s only ONE way to flow water through these dams, and that’s the river flow outlet system / bypass. It’s somewhat counterintuitive, but at low water levels you absolutely must maintain and be able to use that system, otherwise the entire Colorado River stops flowing - which would be catastrophic downstream. It’s easier to do maintenance at normal levels as they can just operate the power house and keep things flowing that way. The intakes for the river flow outlet system are (pretty much) always under water anyways, so even severe droughts won’t really make maintenance work any different or easier in that respect.
I have personally been inside 2 of the turbine outlet pipes at Carter's damn... They're massive in diameter 14 feet wide. While I was building scaffolding for the engineers to be able to put in new water flow and cavitation sensors in the pipes. They opened one of the 4 outlet pipes. We're 120 feet down in this damn and when they open that flow valve. You can feel the pip you're in vibrating while you hear nothing but the whoosh of water in the other outlet... Pretty scary Because it sounds like the water is coming thru the pipe you're in...
Holy moly... what an experience🤯 I think the closet I've come to something like that is being down in a slot canyon during an incoming freak storm. You can hear the water and feel it... you just don't know when or where it's coming! First time I've heard of cavitation sensors also, something new to look into. Thank you for watching and commenting!
@@mojo.adventures I remember it all like yesterday... It was 2009 I took a job as a scaffold builder for Georgia power and its other cousins like duke energy and the army corp of engineers... (Nobody was having their trees cut, people just couldn't afford it) needless to say, taking that job opened my eyes to the world of engineering... I've been to places most people could only imagine inside powerplants. From inside of the actual boilers of coal fired plants like plant bowen to inside hydroelectric dams, I even worked for the TVA (Tennessee valley authority). If people only knew what it took to produce electricity on this scale to actually see behind the curtain like I have. From turbine floors you could eat off of they're so polished and pristine... To the belly of the beast where it all happens in the shadows. It's dirty, dark and miles of it like a labyrinth.
Absolutely! It's a bit of a testament to the Hoover Dam's construction also. You wouldn't think something of this size and engineering precision from as recent as the 60s would have so many failures already...
Well. I want to live there and have a lawn that I need to water all day. Will need to plant some trees, too. The desert just isn’t like my home back east. Wait… we ran out of water? How the hell am I supposed to water my plants.
What do you think would happen if everyone in this country were to move to a place where you can drill a well to get water? All the aquifers would dry up. Even NYC depends on dams for its water. Try being realistic and not judgemental about how humans get and use water. The issue of us using too much water applies to every place in the US where humans live. Going on about why people live in the desert and not overcrowding your community has nothing to do with the issue at dams, which are needed all over the country, not just in the desert. I'll bet there are dams near you that you only think of as the lakes that they form. The video indicates the issue is being solved with a bypass tunnel, so there is no need to worry. This video was informative, not an open door for people with very little knowledge of how things work to criticize others.
The solution isn't to not build metropolises in the desert, that's actually probably the best place to build them, the land has little use otherwise. The solution is to stop trying to fucking farm in the desert, that's where all the water goes and why the Colorado doesn't reach the sea anymore.
The water slows where the river enters the lake, dropping most of the sediment there, not near the dam! If you watch videos of the Condit dam removal, you see the most sediment furthest from the dam. They had to drain the entire lake to flush it...good luck draining Powell or Mead to move all the sediment.
@@DillonPrecisionFan A long time ago they had to pull the plug on the drain of the Gulf of Mexico in order to remove the sediment from the Mississippi…..
The sediment flush is not for sediment in the reservoir. It is for sediment in the Grand Canyon. You might notice in the video that the water comes out clear (white due to high air entrainment), not the color of sediment. The flush is intended to simulate floods, which are no longer a regular occurrence in the Canyon. These floods move sediment and form beaches, which are very convenient for people rafting in the Canyon who need a place to camp. These flushing flows, which caused the damage to the outlets, resulted from lobbying efforts by the rafting industry, among others. They were not part of the original planned operations and were starter during the Clinton administration, well after the dam was constructed.
Primary purpose of GCD was to facilitate storage of upper basin water so that upper basin could meet delivery obligations to lower basin during low flow years. Hydroelectric power was not the primary purpose of GCD.
Restricting the use of water for golf courses would save billions of gallons of water. While residents and businesses are told to reduce usage to a gallons per address golf courses raise the gallons per person into the thousands.
@@kathypaaaina3953 We stated with reclaimed water in Florida in the mid 1970's in certain neighborhoods, separate meter for that. The my mother would not allow the azaleas to be watered with the reclaimed source as it killed the shrubs. On the St. Augustine lawn, it thrived with the reclaimed water.
The river outlet works are not as described: "antique." They are a relatively new design compared to those at Hoover. They also were never designed to make releases that simulate a flood. That is a much more recent idea that was proposed decades after the dam was built. They are for low-level and emergency releases. The problem with discharging high flow while the reservoir is low is that there is not enough back-pressure on the valves to prevent cavitation within the pipes. They are at the limits of operation. Releasing the same flow with the reservoir at much higher levels would not likely cause cavitation issues because the valves would not be fully open, and a higher pressure would be present within the pipes upstream from the valves. Cavitation is the result of negative pressures developing in the pipe, and higher pressure can counteract its formation. The engineers from the 1950s were not likely as aware of cavitation issues or how to prevent them as engineers are today. Additionally, dam operators were not necessarily aware that cavitation could develop unless modern engineers did a study and recommended operational restrictions. The original engineers may not have proposed any restrictions to flow at low reservoir levels.
Thank you for the good information!👍 Backpressure makes a lot of sense. It seems like just about everything along the Colorado is being run in a way that it was never designed for these days. It's no wonder we're in this situation. Now we watch in a few months as every outlets fawns over the low levels at Lake Mead. Fix one problem on the river... cause another.
Every time the government "wastes money" the fraud is committed by a for profit business. Private businesses bilking taxpayers is what keeps rich people rich.
Any harmonic like a cavitation can be regulated with nested low-high forms. Just look at any river, like the Colorado, at Topsy Turvy past Cisco. Try experimenting on this and the solution will found. Pairs of high-low forms can elevate or depress fast moving water.
Cavitation…I learn so much from you guys! Seems pretty concerning to those of us who rely on Lake Mead’s water levels. I was hoping for a strong 2023 winter/snowpack up north of you. Turned out to be just ok, correct?
Glad to hear! That's right, snowpack turned out to be just a bit above average. Peaked around 110% this year which isn't bad at all. We were certainly expecting worse, as the trend usually swings back after a wet winter. Unfortunately as you can see Mead still has problems upstream and downstream. Can't "catch a break" it seems!
If backpressure is what prevents the penstocks from cavitation damage. Then those 4 river outlets should have restrictor on the openings to create backpressure. Rather than flowing full blast, have a reduced volume flow and sustained backpressure. The outlets could have variable outlets to fine tune flow. And best of all it would only require construction on the 4 river outlets. I still wonder why Glen canyon has so much trouble now and in 83 when A much older Hoover dam took the spillways flow in stride. I was at Hoover in 83 and it was Breathtakeing. The depth, the trembling roar of the spillways. I had no idea that volume was so temporary.
The backpressure would lessen or eliminate the cavitation, but it would not provide the high flow that was, I believe, the point of the experiment. None the less, this clearly seems to be the right approach.
Great ideas there! I will have to do some more digging and see if the USBR posts more detailed information on what the exact causes are this time. I could definitely see backpressure playing a part. When the spillways were damaged in '83 the main culprit was the high pitch at the top of the tunnels. I'm with you there also wondering how a newer dam has so much more trouble than an older (and bigger) one. Even if the cavitation issue is fixed again in the river works outlet, it still doesn't solve the problem of sedimentation or address the need for a low level bypass during drought periods. Wish I could have seen Hoover spilling back then. I hold out hope that maybe once more in the future before I'm done here I'll get to experience that!
From the video it looks like the river works are built using cement. I was wondering why those outlets do not have a metal-based inner lining that will (presumably) decrease cavitation, since metal is smoother than cement. My guess is that issue is the extra cost, but is there any other reason why metal is not used?
Hoover dam spillway also has had cavitation damage too, and now also has an air slot to prevent further damage. There was a lot of new technology that went into building Hoover, but because it was the first of its kind, there were many unknowns. The effects of cavitation were not well understood anywhere in the world, even at the time Glen Canyon was being built. When you push technology to its known limits, you learn things you never knew. However, both dams are still very safe. In the grand scheme, cavitation damage at these dams is a challenge that can be fixed. The dams were never in any danger of falling, regardless of the drama portrayed in the press.
Hoover did experience cavitation in 1941, the only other year that it overflowed, historically. This is from a narrative of Glen Canyon's near failure in 1983: Constructing the spillways in this way, where hundreds of linear feet of each 41-foot diameter diversion tunnel are repurposed, was both quicker and cheaper to construct. The tradeoff, however, was that the bend where the spillway tunnel meets the diversion tunnel created the potential for cavitation. This danger was known by Reclamation, with both Hoover Dam and Yellowtail Dam experiencing damage from cavitation in their similarly configured spillway tunnels (Hoover in 1941 and Yellowtail in 1967). The risk, however, was deemed to be minimal. According to W.L. Rusho, longtime public affairs officer for Reclamation, including the period during the Glen Canyon Dam incident, “A well-managed reservoir should almost never spill, and then only for very short periods, after which the cavitation could be repaired.”
Thanks @sammyhead, indeed it seems the engineers just never planned for Lake Powell to ever get below the River Works Outlet. I am somewhat surprised to learn that not all dams are designed with a low-level / sediment bypass. I am sure the USBR is already weighing whether it is more cost effective to fix the whole system or partially decommission it.
Very interesting. Is this a sediment problem this time or was there concrete lost in the tube? Either way is there an estimate for clean up/repair. My opinion would be to save the dams if at all possible. No dam means no water reserve. It also would mean alternative power. Reduced demand down stream seems to be the best solution for keeping both. California has the best options for alternative water sources either by conserving snow melt and or building desalination plants all along the SoCal coast.
No sediment problems this time, just cavitation eating away at the pipes again! The penstocks and river works outlet are all steel piping so I would have to guess it's eating away at the joints, or possibly infiltrating outside the pipes where it shouldn't and they just started noticing it. No estimates or solutions yet as the ball is just getting rolling on all that... I'm sure you know how federal projects work. It seems USBR has been putting off major renovations to the dam for a while. It's coming to an "all or nothing" situation for Glen Canyon Dam. Time to either fix it or leave it! Thank you for watching and commenting 👍
Thank you, appreciate you watching! The diversion tunnels have obviously been well plugged with solid concrete, but the engineering is still there. The problem that comes to mind is how to drain the lake enough to work on it, without having a low level bypass installed to begin with. That would be a LOT of pumping and dredging, but they did it at the bottom of Lake Mead for the 3rd intake, so I'm sure it's possible!
Install smaller diameter pipe from above to below the damaged section with flared ends,welded to existing pipe. Install additional metal along the bottom section if needed. Reducing inlet flow to slow cavation. Lower flow better than no flow.
Would it be possible to build a coffer dam around one spillway entrance, then build an additional gated bypass tunnel connecting the lake to the spillway at a low water level, then the spillway can be used at a much greater release rate instead of the river works?
That is an interesting solution actually! It would save money connecting to the already built spillway tunnel. Ideally it would have to be pretty low to allow the silt to flush also. Just waiting to see what the USBR is thinking of pursuing now... if anything. I have a feeling if the water levels rise again this will fade into memory until the next problem arises.
From the feedback I'm seeing in here, no rubber/poly compound could withstand the forces of cavitation at this level. Even specially formulated concrete is susceptible. Looks like the best solution is to prevent or introduce cavitation in a pre-emptive controlled way like they did in the spillways.
Sonoluminescense is a mysterious problem, and it's odd that there aren't more definitive explanations and solutions to the problems encountered by it. Must be a really good reason.
Each year, it becomes more obvious that safely decommissioning the Glen Canyon Dam should be the top priority for the BLM. Risking the water supply to the Lower Colorado Basin is not acceptable.
Might have a bit of that going on myself... hard to decide which facts make it into the videos and which don't. So much information and moving parts around this topic. Appreciate you watching and stopping in to comment 👍🤠
Interesting question! I'm not sure of the differences but I know they started the re-lining project now. I will have to look if it is concrete/plaster based lining or something different like an epoxy based lining of some sorts.
I believe it has to do with the pitch of the piping, the material, and imperfections. Apparently the spillway cavitation started over a walnut sized concrete lump sticking up into the flow. It was made possible because of the steepness at the top of the spillways also. In the case of the penstocks, the pitch isn't as great, the piping is steel, and there is backpressure from pushing the turbines.
Lake Powell water levels won't drop below the River Outlet Bypass, when the reservoir is at that level leave them open and the river will continue flowing without causing cavitation problems in the pipes.
"Antique plumbing" ?? I remember a National Geographic article before the damming of Powel River. You made me feel old but rightfully so. My plumbing is in about the same condition.😏
Welcome from Australia! The Glen Canyon Dam is just upstream of the Hoover Dam on the border of Arizona and Utah. Hoover Dam here outside Las Vegas created Lake Mead, and Glen Canyon Dam created Lake Powell around 30 years later. Hope that clears it up a bit!
Question is why are penstock inlets half way up the dam when if the penstock inlet was at the bottom original river flow level it would produce more power for less water and the need for sediment release valves wouldnt really be needed might be time to drill new inlets from the low side into the dam
That's the multi-million dollar question! It seems the engineers just never expected water levels to drop below the River Works inlet. An epic oversight, especially considering Glen Canyon was always just a secondary reservoir
The solution is pretty obvious, no release until water reaches the operational level, bypassing the penstocks just prevented generation , and made a drought worse.
In crop flood irrigation system underground sometimes we get a "waterhammer" when someone opens the gates to much. Caused by a air bubble bouncing around in the pipeline. Blew the stacks off three vents and ruptured the line... Cost was enormous$$$$. I amagen your facing the same type of problem just on a much greater scale than we ... My advice; Limit the flow. Never go full boar. Check ✔️ for sinkholes, that could cause catastrophic failure of the Dam.... They have like ultrasound devices that scoot across the surface like a lawnmower. Cuz Florida gets alot of sinkholes there used quite a bit there.
From what I'm understanding, part of it is due to the backpressure here... the turbines restrict flow through the penstocks keeping it relatively constant. I can only guess part of it is due to the pitch of the pipes like it was in the spillways. We are still waiting on the USBR to publish more details on what they've found.
Does it make a big difference - other than buying us just some few more years till the inevitable happens - to draw down Lake Powell to 3370 feet (and after that, outflows will automatically reduce to match inflows) instead of reducing outflows now and keeping the lake slightly above 3490?
It won't make much of a difference unless they decide to overhaul the whole system. I think what you describe is the exact idea the USBR has when they say to "decommission" the dam.
@@mojo.adventures I would think that "decommission" the dam means to tear it down completely or to re-open the diversion tunnels so Lake Powell would be gone completely. Then, the flow rate slightly downriver of the former dam site would "automatically" always be exactly the same as slightly upriver. However, the dam operators could emulate that behavior without tearing the dam down - keep it slightly above minimum power pool an keep outflows (through the turbines) always exactly the same as the instantaneous inflows. We would lose some water to evaporation but we could still produce some electricity. An if we say that the overall outflow per (day|week|month|year) has to be exactly the same as the inflow in that time period minus evaporation, we could have some flexibility to produce peak power. Not sure whether it is wise to "decommission" an existing infrastructure in the sense of destroying it.
I feel like this is sybolic of the decline of the US as a whole. It takes a strong nation with some great minds and engineering expertise to build mega projects like this dam. Qualities the US (and UK) had in abundance in the 1950s and 60s. Now, they can't even find the will to MAINTAIN these incredible feats of engineering, and they are falling into a state of disrepair and neglect. WHY?! Things are pretty much the same here in the UK. Not long ago we HAD so many great things and institutions here, and lately it's all just sliding down the pan. Nobody is attacking us, nobody is trying to steal it away, we're just letting it all go to rot out of apathy and its so incredibly sad! 😒
Great comment! 👍 I agree, it is a indication of the larger problem at whole. Roads, bridges, city infrastructure crumbling while our wealth and resources are funnelled to private interests and overseas to fund endless wars. Just like when the bridge collapsed in Pittsburgh on the same day the president was visiting. The "transportation secretary" had just inspected some bridges there in Pittsburgh the summer before. It's all a dog and pony show. The more I make these videos, the more I realize the solutions are out there... and they are fairly simple. Thank you for watching and commenting.
I am hoping for more details to be released, but my guess is the steep pitch of pipes played a part and there is little backpressure on the river works outlet.
i wish they just did the same as last year and let the water rise. Califonia releases so much water... yet they take the most. Just feels like greed. Why can't they just lower the water released for 3 years... 7,500,000M is not efficient enough. should be much lower like 5M so both dams can survive into the future
I do also! What a great water year it was for both reservoirs👍 It's sad knowing Mead could recover to it's former glory within a few seasons if the outflows were just throttled like at Powell. It seems the further downstream the river you go the worse the dependance, waste, and abuse. It's all backwards. All this was bound to come to a head eventually. Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@mojo.adventures its all about the stupid alfalfa grown in CA. But like last year with minimal water let go. Corruption until we all have no water. Love the content of the Colorado. Keep it up!
85% of the water in the Glen Canyon system goes to growing food. 62% of that is for cattle feed crops. In the upper basin, over 90% of the is for cattle feed crops. About 50% of the alfalfa and 30% of the hay grown with Colorado River water is exported out of the country. It's bullshit and needs to stop.
So it is fair to say if a situation arose when massive flooding happened and this dam had to release massive amounts of water for an extended time , the dam may fail at the pipes
That about sums it up! It would be a "just send it" situation as topping the dam would be even more catastrophic. On the other hand, if the water level fell too LOW, the dam also couldn't release any water downstream because the bypass intake is too high. Catch 22.
Repair the damage, then construct, design straightener to cause water to flow in an laminar fashion reduce the flow per each discharge thus reducing turbulence, the straightener to be installed up stream of the down stream discharge points, reduce the flow, reducing flow due to past design errors
Colorado really needs to start releasing water into the Arkansas... Thing is so low we have to mow.the river in Kansas... Colorado needs to stop hording these rivers...
In my 30 years of water management I have seen cavation do this damage before . (what the erosion in the pipes is caused from) . The engineers surely are aware of this. Velocity of the water causes air bubbles and scrubs the surface and the air bubbles act like little explosions on the surface. With that said concrete pipes are not durable. 🤔 so maybe a liner of stronger steel or stainless liners be used. Just a thought.
It sounds as if they are going ahead with repairs. From what I can tell (from press releases), they are going to line the discharge pipes with an epoxy coating. I picture this as similar to the sanitary sewer linings often seen in neighborhood projects wherein contractors install a green colored liner (activated by heat?) to extend the life of deteriorated sewer pipes.
Interesting info, thank you for that! I'm going to have to look into it now. That's pretty cool some viewers had actually suggested the epoxy lining. I've seen that process... looks like a sewer snake comes out the other end and cures then they just cut off the excess. Imagine the size of an industrial one...
large scale atmospheric venting and longer lower pitch runs. Cavitation is from fast moving water and or vacuum pressure. Open top spiral out from top to bottom gutters getting wider as you go down would help with the speed of the water as well. Smaller inlet then outlet/run would get your less energy as area increases pressure decreases.
Interesting, thank you for sharing that bit of engineering! I know they solved the problem in the spillways with a cavitation ring that introduced air at the top. It seems they didn't have any idea of these problems when the dams were engineered... and it wasn't that long ago. Moving forward I would hope all these solutions are engineered into the designs.
Why not just stop releasing water until pool level rises up to the Penstock levels for power generation, then just maintain river flow through the turbines. It might mean a month when the Colorado faces low flow until dam level recovers.
Edward Abbey's prayer for a "strategic earthquake" was not answered, so perhaps cavitation will persist to the point where removal of this dam will be necessary.
That is interesting I will look into this further, thanks! At this point though... it might have been a good thing it didn't happen. There weren't really up and up on the hydrology data... even in the 60's.
Like so many other engineering projects in the 20th century I guess the environment impact study prior to the Glen Canyon being built didn’t factor in the huge SW drought the last decade.
Good question! Those were actually the spillways at Glen Canyon Dam that were damaged... so it was the SAME dam just 40 years apart. Hoover Dam didn't seem to have the same problems with cavitation I'm guessing because the spillway pitch wasn't so steep like it is here at Glen Canyon Dam.
One option might actually be to cut down the size of lake mead itself which would reduce evaporation, simply raise the water level but reduce the actual footprint of lake mead maybe creating a sectional dam that can be opened and closed to expand lake mead if needed.
There would probably not be a problem at all if there wasn't a need for the power generated at both dams. This is clean power. During a prolonged drought, there has been a balancing act to keep both powerplants working. Of course, they could lower the reservoir, but that would mean whole communities would have to go without power. All these operations issues seem to bring a lot of drama, but the real issue at both dams is maintaining power generation.
The sediment problem is easy to solve. Just let people know there could be gold in the sediment. Free for the taking. They just have to move the sediment to a designated place. They'll have that sucker dug out fast.
And I would be one of those people... 😂 I am currently chasing a historical tale of placer gold being found underneath what is now Lake Mead near a former sweeping bank of the Colorado. That is a video and tale for another time though...
*Learn more about the 1983 spillway cavitation* in our video *BEHIND THE DROUGHT 2* ▶ th-cam.com/video/J19iRm1xGEY/w-d-xo.html
Shout out to our *SUPERTHANKS* viewers for this month: *sammyhead ⚒3 | Juice_2288 | genebond991 | Bambisgf77*
We are driven by viewers like YOU! Comment below and let us know what you'd like to see covered next ✍🤠
*👇👇👇*CONNECT WITH US AND WATCH RELATED VIDEOS HERE*👇👇👇*
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*Watch related episodes:*
Making it RAIN: Cloud Seeding the Desert: th-cam.com/video/VsxTQy72XJk/w-d-xo.html
[Colorado River Watch #02] Wall Street Eyes BILLIONS in River Rights: th-cam.com/video/OLJS9gMsBiQ/w-d-xo.html
Lake Mead UPDATE April 2024: th-cam.com/video/B92MHwkuoXc/w-d-xo.html
[Colorado River Watch #01] California ALFAFA Farms: th-cam.com/video/OLJS9gMsBiQ/w-d-xo.html
Honestly given what we know now they should completely do away with Glen Canyon Dam and Lake Powell and just let the river run into Lake Mead and Hoover Dam. Would be much easier to manage honestly from just about every angle. What little power it generated compared to Hoover could be replaced and exceeded with renewables over the course of a decade or two while being supplemented by the rise in Mead's level in the interm. All the while Glen Canyon can be taken down slowly until it's no more and the river is returned to it's former self. Costly, for sure, however it beats all the alternatives in the long run I'd wager.
That should definitely be the plan during drought years at minimum! Just let the river flow above Mead. Unfortunately as we see there is a bunch of problems that need fixed first and the USBR still wants a plan to offset the hydropower. It seems like solar would be an obvious choice in that area, as the Glen Canyon Dam doesn't produce much power in the grand scheme of things. I think rooftop solar around Page could offset most of their needs seeing how it is a small town. Once the old issues are solved only then can we move forward. It seems like on the river it's always "1 step forward, 2 steps back".
@@mojo.adventures 100%
Kicking the can down the road is how we operate in America today.
slowly becoming a third world country, but sure lets keep on taking in more people
Unfortunately we don't do infrastructure anymore.
Totally unacceptable
I believe the engineering term is run to failure.
.....you say that like that hasn't been the American way for 100 years. We've got a nuclear dome leaking into the ocean from the 60s that they were well aware would be a problem lol, shit most of the dams we rely on today were built were built in the first half of the 1900
Sounds like a Golden opportunity was missed in 2022 to make Overdue repairs and Necessary Upgrades …..
I thought the same thing, seems like the best time for repairs would be when water level is at an all time low.
Hindsight is 20-20 surprise, surprise
@@richardcornelius1050 you all didn’t learn anything from this video, did you? 😆
The issue IS the low water level! When it’s at or near historic lows, there’s only ONE way to flow water through these dams, and that’s the river flow outlet system / bypass. It’s somewhat counterintuitive, but at low water levels you absolutely must maintain and be able to use that system, otherwise the entire Colorado River stops flowing - which would be catastrophic downstream.
It’s easier to do maintenance at normal levels as they can just operate the power house and keep things flowing that way. The intakes for the river flow outlet system are (pretty much) always under water anyways, so even severe droughts won’t really make maintenance work any different or easier in that respect.
I have personally been inside 2 of the turbine outlet pipes at Carter's damn... They're massive in diameter 14 feet wide. While I was building scaffolding for the engineers to be able to put in new water flow and cavitation sensors in the pipes. They opened one of the 4 outlet pipes. We're 120 feet down in this damn and when they open that flow valve. You can feel the pip you're in vibrating while you hear nothing but the whoosh of water in the other outlet... Pretty scary Because it sounds like the water is coming thru the pipe you're in...
Holy moly... what an experience🤯 I think the closet I've come to something like that is being down in a slot canyon during an incoming freak storm. You can hear the water and feel it... you just don't know when or where it's coming! First time I've heard of cavitation sensors also, something new to look into. Thank you for watching and commenting!
scary
@@mojo.adventures I remember it all like yesterday... It was 2009 I took a job as a scaffold builder for Georgia power and its other cousins like duke energy and the army corp of engineers... (Nobody was having their trees cut, people just couldn't afford it) needless to say, taking that job opened my eyes to the world of engineering... I've been to places most people could only imagine inside powerplants. From inside of the actual boilers of coal fired plants like plant bowen to inside hydroelectric dams, I even worked for the TVA (Tennessee valley authority). If people only knew what it took to produce electricity on this scale to actually see behind the curtain like I have. From turbine floors you could eat off of they're so polished and pristine... To the belly of the beast where it all happens in the shadows. It's dirty, dark and miles of it like a labyrinth.
😳
That’s a poor practice to open spillways while workers are in different spillways!
Thanks for this video!
Shortsightedness combined with huge projects can result in massive problems, as you describe.
Absolutely! It's a bit of a testament to the Hoover Dam's construction also. You wouldn't think something of this size and engineering precision from as recent as the 60s would have so many failures already...
Hindsight is not Shortsightedness. You probably predicted that airplanes would take out the WTC too right?
@@akshonclip Nope. It was a controlled demolition.
@@tzadik36 I rest my case
Much easier. How about misused taxes and neglect because spending tax money on infrastructure is NOT what America does.
Excellently presented and very informative! Thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for stopping in to leave feedback 👍
the best solution is NOT to build a metropolis in the middle of a desert.
Well. I want to live there and have a lawn that I need to water all day. Will need to plant some trees, too. The desert just isn’t like my home back east.
Wait… we ran out of water? How the hell am I supposed to water my plants.
What do you think would happen if everyone in this country were to move to a place where you can drill a well to get water? All the aquifers would dry up. Even NYC depends on dams for its water. Try being realistic and not judgemental about how humans get and use water. The issue of us using too much water applies to every place in the US where humans live. Going on about why people live in the desert and not overcrowding your community has nothing to do with the issue at dams, which are needed all over the country, not just in the desert. I'll bet there are dams near you that you only think of as the lakes that they form. The video indicates the issue is being solved with a bypass tunnel, so there is no need to worry. This video was informative, not an open door for people with very little knowledge of how things work to criticize others.
The solution isn't to not build metropolises in the desert, that's actually probably the best place to build them, the land has little use otherwise.
The solution is to stop trying to fucking farm in the desert, that's where all the water goes and why the Colorado doesn't reach the sea anymore.
@@johnt1877 Happening in many counties in Texas with the massive influx of people from other places.
That horse has left the gate.
Excellent briefing!
Subscribed. Jb.
Welcome aboard! Checking out your channel this morning... good stuff. Back at ya! 🤠
Amazing how I find you on the same channels I subscribe to, Juan! Including yours, of course! 🙂✈
All dams should have a sediment flush system. Hoover is one of them
The water slows where the river enters the lake, dropping most of the sediment there, not near the dam! If you watch videos of the Condit dam removal, you see the most sediment furthest from the dam. They had to drain the entire lake to flush it...good luck draining Powell or Mead to move all the sediment.
Sorry to say but They Don’t Teach or have Common Sense. The Main Problem was Al Gore John Kerry
@@DillonPrecisionFan A long time ago they had to pull the plug on the drain of the Gulf of Mexico in order to remove the sediment from the Mississippi…..
The sediment flush is not for sediment in the reservoir. It is for sediment in the Grand Canyon. You might notice in the video that the water comes out clear (white due to high air entrainment), not the color of sediment. The flush is intended to simulate floods, which are no longer a regular occurrence in the Canyon. These floods move sediment and form beaches, which are very convenient for people rafting in the Canyon who need a place to camp. These flushing flows, which caused the damage to the outlets, resulted from lobbying efforts by the rafting industry, among others. They were not part of the original planned operations and were starter during the Clinton administration, well after the dam was constructed.
@@DillonPrecisionFan because dredges dont exist?
Nice informative video. They have to solve the water usage for the Colorado River.
Primary purpose of GCD was to facilitate storage of upper basin water so that upper basin could meet delivery obligations to lower basin during low flow years. Hydroelectric power was not the primary purpose of GCD.
Restricting the use of water for golf courses would save billions of gallons of water. While residents and businesses are told to reduce usage to a gallons per address golf courses raise the gallons per person into the thousands.
The majority of the water on the Colorado River goes to agriculture.
Aloha hugs 🤗 we use sewer treated Water for golf course mail.near Bases and In Utah the hose outside is for yards in the house for human 65years ago
@@kathypaaaina3953 We stated with reclaimed water in Florida in the mid 1970's in certain neighborhoods, separate meter for that. The my mother would not allow the azaleas to be watered with the reclaimed source as it killed the shrubs. On the St. Augustine lawn, it thrived with the reclaimed water.
Exactly. But golfers (ahem) ‘well-off and wealthy golfers in Scottsdale need their green golf courses.
every simple minded fool loves to blame golf courses because going after agriculture in places it shouldn't exist is apparently too big brained
The river outlet works are not as described: "antique." They are a relatively new design compared to those at Hoover. They also were never designed to make releases that simulate a flood. That is a much more recent idea that was proposed decades after the dam was built. They are for low-level and emergency releases. The problem with discharging high flow while the reservoir is low is that there is not enough back-pressure on the valves to prevent cavitation within the pipes. They are at the limits of operation. Releasing the same flow with the reservoir at much higher levels would not likely cause cavitation issues because the valves would not be fully open, and a higher pressure would be present within the pipes upstream from the valves. Cavitation is the result of negative pressures developing in the pipe, and higher pressure can counteract its formation. The engineers from the 1950s were not likely as aware of cavitation issues or how to prevent them as engineers are today. Additionally, dam operators were not necessarily aware that cavitation could develop unless modern engineers did a study and recommended operational restrictions. The original engineers may not have proposed any restrictions to flow at low reservoir levels.
Thank you for the good information!👍 Backpressure makes a lot of sense. It seems like just about everything along the Colorado is being run in a way that it was never designed for these days. It's no wonder we're in this situation. Now we watch in a few months as every outlets fawns over the low levels at Lake Mead. Fix one problem on the river... cause another.
Your videos are so informative. I have quite a few to catch up on. ❤
Wait… an infrastructure issue in the United States? No way?! The government always uses our taxes appropriately…
Every time the government "wastes money" the fraud is committed by a for profit business. Private businesses bilking taxpayers is what keeps rich people rich.
Any harmonic like a cavitation can be regulated with nested low-high forms. Just look at any river, like the Colorado, at Topsy Turvy past Cisco. Try experimenting on this and the solution will found. Pairs of high-low forms can elevate or depress fast moving water.
the flaw was thinking that the dam can last so long, like everything else, there is a lifetime, sometimes shorter than expected.
Cavitation…I learn so much from you guys! Seems pretty concerning to those of us who rely on Lake Mead’s water levels.
I was hoping for a strong 2023 winter/snowpack up north of you. Turned out to be just ok, correct?
Glad to hear! That's right, snowpack turned out to be just a bit above average. Peaked around 110% this year which isn't bad at all. We were certainly expecting worse, as the trend usually swings back after a wet winter. Unfortunately as you can see Mead still has problems upstream and downstream. Can't "catch a break" it seems!
Cavitation... Could you ensure the plumber reams his copper pipe after making a cut? Otherwise, you will end up with leaks.
Yikes! Thanks, love your channel.
Thanks for watching! Appreciate the feedback and glad to hear you're enjoying the content👍
If backpressure is what prevents the penstocks from cavitation damage. Then those 4 river outlets should have restrictor on the openings to create backpressure. Rather than flowing full blast, have a reduced volume flow and sustained backpressure. The outlets could have variable outlets to fine tune flow. And best of all it would only require construction on the 4 river outlets.
I still wonder why Glen canyon has so much trouble now and in 83 when A much older Hoover dam took the spillways flow in stride. I was at Hoover in 83 and it was Breathtakeing. The depth, the trembling roar of the spillways. I had no idea that volume was so temporary.
The backpressure would lessen or eliminate the cavitation, but it would not provide the high flow that was, I believe, the point of the experiment. None the less, this clearly seems to be the right approach.
Great ideas there! I will have to do some more digging and see if the USBR posts more detailed information on what the exact causes are this time. I could definitely see backpressure playing a part. When the spillways were damaged in '83 the main culprit was the high pitch at the top of the tunnels. I'm with you there also wondering how a newer dam has so much more trouble than an older (and bigger) one. Even if the cavitation issue is fixed again in the river works outlet, it still doesn't solve the problem of sedimentation or address the need for a low level bypass during drought periods. Wish I could have seen Hoover spilling back then. I hold out hope that maybe once more in the future before I'm done here I'll get to experience that!
From the video it looks like the river works are built using cement. I was wondering why those outlets do not have a metal-based inner lining that will (presumably) decrease cavitation, since metal is smoother than cement. My guess is that issue is the extra cost, but is there any other reason why metal is not used?
Hoover dam spillway also has had cavitation damage too, and now also has an air slot to prevent further damage. There was a lot of new technology that went into building Hoover, but because it was the first of its kind, there were many unknowns. The effects of cavitation were not well understood anywhere in the world, even at the time Glen Canyon was being built. When you push technology to its known limits, you learn things you never knew. However, both dams are still very safe. In the grand scheme, cavitation damage at these dams is a challenge that can be fixed. The dams were never in any danger of falling, regardless of the drama portrayed in the press.
Hoover did experience cavitation in 1941, the only other year that it overflowed, historically. This is from a narrative of Glen Canyon's near failure in 1983:
Constructing the spillways in this way, where hundreds of linear feet of each 41-foot diameter diversion tunnel are repurposed, was both quicker and cheaper to construct. The tradeoff, however, was that the bend where the spillway tunnel meets the diversion tunnel created the potential for cavitation. This danger was known by Reclamation, with both Hoover Dam and Yellowtail Dam experiencing damage from cavitation in their similarly configured spillway tunnels (Hoover in 1941 and Yellowtail in 1967). The risk, however, was deemed to be minimal. According to W.L. Rusho, longtime public affairs officer for Reclamation, including the period during the Glen Canyon Dam incident, “A well-managed reservoir should almost never spill, and then only for very short periods, after which the cavitation could be repaired.”
Fantastic content! Thank you for making this video.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for the feedback 👍
Nice tight report. Good graphics. Subscribed. 👍
Welcome aboard! Thanks for watching and stopping in to leave some feedback👍
Good report. Indeed a problem with no easy... or inexpensive solution. This will encourage the dismantlers.
Thanks @sammyhead, indeed it seems the engineers just never planned for Lake Powell to ever get below the River Works Outlet. I am somewhat surprised to learn that not all dams are designed with a low-level / sediment bypass. I am sure the USBR is already weighing whether it is more cost effective to fix the whole system or partially decommission it.
Very interesting. Is this a sediment problem this time or was there concrete lost in the tube? Either way is there an estimate for clean up/repair. My opinion would be to save the dams if at all possible. No dam means no water reserve. It also would mean alternative power. Reduced demand down stream seems to be the best solution for keeping both. California has the best options for alternative water sources either by conserving snow melt and or building desalination plants all along the SoCal coast.
No sediment problems this time, just cavitation eating away at the pipes again! The penstocks and river works outlet are all steel piping so I would have to guess it's eating away at the joints, or possibly infiltrating outside the pipes where it shouldn't and they just started noticing it. No estimates or solutions yet as the ball is just getting rolling on all that... I'm sure you know how federal projects work. It seems USBR has been putting off major renovations to the dam for a while. It's coming to an "all or nothing" situation for Glen Canyon Dam. Time to either fix it or leave it! Thank you for watching and commenting 👍
Very informative video. Thanks! Question: are the diversion tunnels still in place (or could be re-opened?)
Thank you, appreciate you watching! The diversion tunnels have obviously been well plugged with solid concrete, but the engineering is still there. The problem that comes to mind is how to drain the lake enough to work on it, without having a low level bypass installed to begin with. That would be a LOT of pumping and dredging, but they did it at the bottom of Lake Mead for the 3rd intake, so I'm sure it's possible!
Is the water from Lake Mead being diverted to the cisterns beneath Las Vegas?
Install smaller diameter pipe from above to below the damaged section with flared ends,welded to existing pipe. Install additional metal along the bottom section if needed. Reducing inlet flow to slow cavation. Lower flow better than no flow.
Would it be possible to build a coffer dam around one spillway entrance, then build an additional gated bypass tunnel connecting the lake to the spillway at a low water level, then the spillway can be used at a much greater release rate instead of the river works?
That is an interesting solution actually! It would save money connecting to the already built spillway tunnel. Ideally it would have to be pretty low to allow the silt to flush also. Just waiting to see what the USBR is thinking of pursuing now... if anything. I have a feeling if the water levels rise again this will fade into memory until the next problem arises.
Nice presentation
Is there a type of metal that would be hard/strong enough to withstand cavitation if used to line the riverworks spillways?
From the feedback I'm seeing in here, no rubber/poly compound could withstand the forces of cavitation at this level. Even specially formulated concrete is susceptible. Looks like the best solution is to prevent or introduce cavitation in a pre-emptive controlled way like they did in the spillways.
Sonoluminescense is a mysterious problem, and it's odd that there aren't more definitive explanations and solutions to the problems encountered by it. Must be a really good reason.
Each year, it becomes more obvious that safely decommissioning the Glen Canyon Dam should be the top priority for the BLM. Risking the water supply to the Lower Colorado Basin is not acceptable.
Be strong enough to be honest and kind
Wow. As an autistic obsessive researcher on all range of topics, I learned a lot from this. Great work on the vid.
Might have a bit of that going on myself... hard to decide which facts make it into the videos and which don't. So much information and moving parts around this topic. Appreciate you watching and stopping in to comment 👍🤠
Does the cavitation affect PVC in the same manner as concrete?
What about fiberglass lining?
Interesting question! I'm not sure of the differences but I know they started the re-lining project now. I will have to look if it is concrete/plaster based lining or something different like an epoxy based lining of some sorts.
Back to the drawing board. Not the first dam ever built with flaws that were not well understood in the design phase.
Why does Cavitation not occur in the Penstocks?
There are much lower flow velocities in penstocks, so not usually.
@@johnt1877 - There's also back pressure.
I believe it has to do with the pitch of the piping, the material, and imperfections. Apparently the spillway cavitation started over a walnut sized concrete lump sticking up into the flow. It was made possible because of the steepness at the top of the spillways also. In the case of the penstocks, the pitch isn't as great, the piping is steel, and there is backpressure from pushing the turbines.
Lake Powell water levels won't drop below the River Outlet Bypass, when the reservoir is at that level leave them open and the river will continue flowing without causing cavitation problems in the pipes.
"Antique plumbing" ?? I remember a National Geographic article before the damming of Powel River. You made me feel old but rightfully so. My plumbing is in about the same condition.😏
Thanks!
You bet! Really appreciate your continued support on the channel👍
Sorry I’m in Australia, is glen canyon dam the Hoover dam ?
Welcome from Australia! The Glen Canyon Dam is just upstream of the Hoover Dam on the border of Arizona and Utah. Hoover Dam here outside Las Vegas created Lake Mead, and Glen Canyon Dam created Lake Powell around 30 years later. Hope that clears it up a bit!
Question is why are penstock inlets half way up the dam when if the penstock inlet was at the bottom original river flow level it would produce more power for less water and the need for sediment release valves wouldnt really be needed might be time to drill new inlets from the low side into the dam
That's the multi-million dollar question! It seems the engineers just never expected water levels to drop below the River Works inlet. An epic oversight, especially considering Glen Canyon was always just a secondary reservoir
The solution is pretty obvious, no release until water reaches the operational level, bypassing the penstocks just prevented generation , and made a drought worse.
Concrete technology has made huge advances since the construction of the dam.
Well done
In crop flood irrigation system underground sometimes we get a "waterhammer" when someone opens the gates to much. Caused by a air bubble bouncing around in the pipeline. Blew the stacks off three vents and ruptured the line... Cost was enormous$$$$. I amagen your facing the same type of problem just on a much greater scale than we ... My advice; Limit the flow. Never go full boar. Check ✔️ for sinkholes, that could cause catastrophic failure of the Dam.... They have like ultrasound devices that scoot across the surface like a lawnmower. Cuz Florida gets alot of sinkholes there used quite a bit there.
Why does this problem occur in the bypass tunnels and not the penstocks?
From what I'm understanding, part of it is due to the backpressure here... the turbines restrict flow through the penstocks keeping it relatively constant. I can only guess part of it is due to the pitch of the pipes like it was in the spillways. We are still waiting on the USBR to publish more details on what they've found.
This problem first appeared at the Hoover dam in 1951 it’s soulution is found in the 1952 civil engineering annual.
Would it be feasible to install a controlled siphon over the top of the dam ?
No
No. Siphons have a very limited draw height. I think it's about 30 feet. They simply don't lift water any higher than that.
Does it make a big difference - other than buying us just some few more years till the inevitable happens - to draw down Lake Powell to 3370 feet (and after that, outflows will automatically reduce to match inflows) instead of reducing outflows now and keeping the lake slightly above 3490?
It won't make much of a difference unless they decide to overhaul the whole system. I think what you describe is the exact idea the USBR has when they say to "decommission" the dam.
@@mojo.adventures I would think that "decommission" the dam means to tear it down completely or to re-open the diversion tunnels so Lake Powell would be gone completely. Then, the flow rate slightly downriver of the former dam site would "automatically" always be exactly the same as slightly upriver. However, the dam operators could emulate that behavior without tearing the dam down - keep it slightly above minimum power pool an keep outflows (through the turbines) always exactly the same as the instantaneous inflows. We would lose some water to evaporation but we could still produce some electricity. An if we say that the overall outflow per (day|week|month|year) has to be exactly the same as the inflow in that time period minus evaporation, we could have some flexibility to produce peak power. Not sure whether it is wise to "decommission" an existing infrastructure in the sense of destroying it.
Looks like the system works just fine never going to be perfect.
I feel like this is sybolic of the decline of the US as a whole. It takes a strong nation with some great minds and engineering expertise to build mega projects like this dam. Qualities the US (and UK) had in abundance in the 1950s and 60s. Now, they can't even find the will to MAINTAIN these incredible feats of engineering, and they are falling into a state of disrepair and neglect. WHY?! Things are pretty much the same here in the UK. Not long ago we HAD so many great things and institutions here, and lately it's all just sliding down the pan. Nobody is attacking us, nobody is trying to steal it away, we're just letting it all go to rot out of apathy and its so incredibly sad! 😒
Great comment! 👍 I agree, it is a indication of the larger problem at whole. Roads, bridges, city infrastructure crumbling while our wealth and resources are funnelled to private interests and overseas to fund endless wars. Just like when the bridge collapsed in Pittsburgh on the same day the president was visiting. The "transportation secretary" had just inspected some bridges there in Pittsburgh the summer before. It's all a dog and pony show. The more I make these videos, the more I realize the solutions are out there... and they are fairly simple. Thank you for watching and commenting.
I would like to know what in the design led to cavitation
I thnk it was the water.
I am hoping for more details to be released, but my guess is the steep pitch of pipes played a part and there is little backpressure on the river works outlet.
i wish they just did the same as last year and let the water rise. Califonia releases so much water... yet they take the most. Just feels like greed. Why can't they just lower the water released for 3 years... 7,500,000M is not efficient enough. should be much lower like 5M so both dams can survive into the future
I do also! What a great water year it was for both reservoirs👍 It's sad knowing Mead could recover to it's former glory within a few seasons if the outflows were just throttled like at Powell. It seems the further downstream the river you go the worse the dependance, waste, and abuse. It's all backwards. All this was bound to come to a head eventually. Thanks for watching and commenting!
People in every state have the same answer for their problems….
Californians…..👍🤡
@@mojo.adventures its all about the stupid alfalfa grown in CA. But like last year with minimal water let go. Corruption until we all have no water.
Love the content of the Colorado. Keep it up!
Cavitation can be mitigated by strategically placing breather holes along the overflow to prevent significant decreases in pressure.
We could stop watering the lawns altogether!
That and growing toxic food to be shipped all over the world.
85% of the water in the Glen Canyon system goes to growing food. 62% of that is for cattle feed crops. In the upper basin, over 90% of the is for cattle feed crops.
About 50% of the alfalfa and 30% of the hay grown with Colorado River water is exported out of the country.
It's bullshit and needs to stop.
I’m gonna keep my beautiful lawn watered…
Rewild suburbia!
glen canyon dam does NOT provide irrigation water.
Aloha hugs 🤗 smooth Videi awesome editing
Thank you for the aloha and feedback! 🤗 Welcome to the channel from the 9th Island 🤙
So it is fair to say if a situation arose when massive flooding happened and this dam had to release massive amounts of water for an extended time , the dam may fail at the pipes
That about sums it up! It would be a "just send it" situation as topping the dam would be even more catastrophic. On the other hand, if the water level fell too LOW, the dam also couldn't release any water downstream because the bypass intake is too high. Catch 22.
Repair the damage, then construct, design straightener to cause water to flow in an laminar fashion reduce the flow per each discharge thus reducing turbulence, the straightener to be installed up stream of the down stream discharge points, reduce the flow, reducing flow due to past design errors
Do not, my friends, become addicted to water. It will take hold of you, and you will resent its absence.
Excellent quote! That's why whiskey is for drinking in the west👍Unfortunately for me, all my bad habits died when I left the service...
Valhalla!
How much water gets taken out of the river now before it gets to the Dams?
Infrastructure is not forever , while kicking the can down the road is ubiquitous.
Eventually, one or the other has to give .
Colorado really needs to start releasing water into the Arkansas... Thing is so low we have to mow.the river in Kansas... Colorado needs to stop hording these rivers...
Colorado isn't "hordeing" anything. Simply a matter of supply and demand. Too many people dependent on a shrinking finite resource.
2:43 The GIV gets everywhere
😂😂😂 Had to go back and look... yeah he does look like Mike! GiUT👍
In my 30 years of water management I have seen cavation do this damage before . (what the erosion in the pipes is caused from) . The engineers surely are aware of this. Velocity of the water causes air bubbles and scrubs the surface and the air bubbles act like little explosions on the surface. With that said concrete pipes are not durable. 🤔 so maybe a liner of stronger steel or stainless liners be used. Just a thought.
God forbid you provide such a logical recommendation to these agenda driven maniacs… 😂
Enjoyed content and length
Thank you for watching, appreciate the feedback!👍
It sounds as if they are going ahead with repairs. From what I can tell (from press releases), they are going to line the discharge pipes with an epoxy coating. I picture this as similar to the sanitary sewer linings often seen in neighborhood projects wherein contractors install a green colored liner (activated by heat?) to extend the life of deteriorated sewer pipes.
Interesting info, thank you for that! I'm going to have to look into it now. That's pretty cool some viewers had actually suggested the epoxy lining. I've seen that process... looks like a sewer snake comes out the other end and cures then they just cut off the excess. Imagine the size of an industrial one...
large scale atmospheric venting and longer lower pitch runs. Cavitation is from fast moving water and or vacuum pressure. Open top spiral out from top to bottom gutters getting wider as you go down would help with the speed of the water as well. Smaller inlet then outlet/run would get your less energy as area increases pressure decreases.
Interesting, thank you for sharing that bit of engineering! I know they solved the problem in the spillways with a cavitation ring that introduced air at the top. It seems they didn't have any idea of these problems when the dams were engineered... and it wasn't that long ago. Moving forward I would hope all these solutions are engineered into the designs.
Cubic feet does not give a familiar or recognizable measure of the volume. Either use gallons as unit or and preferably metric units, please.
Copy that, thank you for the suggestion! I currently relay the data just as it is reported by the USBR 👍
@@mojo.adventures
Just multiply the archaic CF by 35.3146 to get metric tonnes. 😇
Imagine the down stream DAMAGE that would happen.. Look at what is now happening with the RAIDIAN. DAM
You'll be hard pushed to find a material that can support that flow rate of water, causing that much caviation without suffering damage.
Didn't Ed Abbey have a solution to this problem?
Just reading about this for the first time now... if you are referencing when he mentioned a seismic event👍
Why not just stop releasing water until pool level rises up to the Penstock levels for power generation, then just maintain river flow through the turbines. It might mean a month when the Colorado faces low flow until dam level recovers.
These dams should never have been built!
Our infrastructure all over the US needs to be updated. But we don’t have money…
USA USA glad our infrastructure is in tip top condition.
Should find the happy medium and stop doing damage with the high flow test.
Should be a law against cavitation. Limit water to 11 m/s.
Edward Abbey's prayer for a "strategic earthquake" was not answered, so perhaps cavitation will persist to the point where removal of this dam will be necessary.
Interesting, I'm just learning about Edward Abbey's take on this right now!👍
the best solution is use 40% less water and let the lake levels rise year after year
You build one dam in front of the other dam to dam up the river while you finish the new dam. Does anyone game any more dam questions?
Time to install a new dam and totally open the existing to put equal pressure on both sides.
Une merveille de l'ingénierie Américaine....
US was supposed to get water from Canada 60 years ago with network of canals and pipes
That is interesting I will look into this further, thanks! At this point though... it might have been a good thing it didn't happen. There weren't really up and up on the hydrology data... even in the 60's.
water goes to Nevada, California, Arizona and ?
Geee Wally.... Maybe if you list them in order you can sort it out? Geowgwafy is herd.
...BEYOND! 🤠 Lots of water issues in MX also. On this trajectory they will be fighting CA soon for what little is left downstream
Carbon fiber lining to protect the inside of the piping perhaps
Like so many other engineering projects in the 20th century I guess the environment impact study prior to the Glen Canyon being built didn’t factor in the huge SW drought the last decade.
@stevedpage114 But who could have predicted that there'd be droughts in the desert? 😂😂
Baffle the vortices- use internal tube floats as interrupters
This is why you don't cut corporate taxes.
You’re telling me that they found these problems years after the Hoover dam problems were found? What happened to the yearly inspection report?!
Good question! Those were actually the spillways at Glen Canyon Dam that were damaged... so it was the SAME dam just 40 years apart. Hoover Dam didn't seem to have the same problems with cavitation I'm guessing because the spillway pitch wasn't so steep like it is here at Glen Canyon Dam.
One option might actually be to cut down the size of lake mead itself which would reduce evaporation, simply raise the water level but reduce the actual footprint of lake mead maybe creating a sectional dam that can be opened and closed to expand lake mead if needed.
Easier said than done
@@WN_Byers Sure but I would think it is at least simple to cut down the size of Lake Mead overall with earth works
There would probably not be a problem at all if there wasn't a need for the power generated at both dams. This is clean power. During a prolonged drought, there has been a balancing act to keep both powerplants working. Of course, they could lower the reservoir, but that would mean whole communities would have to go without power. All these operations issues seem to bring a lot of drama, but the real issue at both dams is maintaining power generation.
@@johnt1877 But wouldn't making the lake smaller help to boost electricity generation by keeping the water level higher naturally?
@@drscopeify to be honest, you are being really hubristic
You'd think they would be sleeved with replaceable steel.
🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁 THE LION WAS HERE 🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁 No. 840
Didn't this information come out a few months ago?
Yes
Slowly let the levels rise to where the dam was designed to operate at? Once that's done, don't let the levels drop too low again.
Coat everything with a rubberized material that will flex against cavitation shockwaves
Maybe not let Saudi Arabian farmers to over water the alfalfa for the King's horses
Going to be a bad year. The heat will evorapate water to. Big problem 🤞
The sediment problem is easy to solve. Just let people know there could be gold in the sediment. Free for the taking. They just have to move the sediment to a designated place. They'll have that sucker dug out fast.
And I would be one of those people... 😂 I am currently chasing a historical tale of placer gold being found underneath what is now Lake Mead near a former sweeping bank of the Colorado. That is a video and tale for another time though...
They should have know ahead of time this would happen!