“Imagine walking up early to go to work and the sun hasn’t come yet, but your machine shines like a beacon guiding you to perfect morning shot” … I am buying ❤
Best reviews on the web. Love all the temp tests as well as the instructional view inside the machines. Every time I watch one of your reviews I learn something new.
Very informative review. It's funny: As a German I watch an US channel to review a German product ;-) But your review are really good and helpful. Thanks.
Hi, Marc… Thanks a lot ;-) Very nice and innovative machine if you are looking for a more modern design than classic ECM machines. Impressive capabilities at that price point and to my mind a very good entry-level machine for _serious_ espresso coffee fans. Oh, I forgot… These concrete handles look really sick - architects are going to _love_ them! I do (not being an architect ;-)
I've been a Decent Espresso owner since Nov 2020 so you know I'm not changing. My previous was a Profitec machine so I feel free to comment. The MOVE name has no meaning in the coffee world...end of story. The silicon pouring spout is a fabulous idea and long, long overdue. Supply a bottomless portafilter with the machine and silicon poring spout modifies to suit the use. It's cheaper, gives more to the customer and is such a simple solution that it baffles the mind on why it took so long to implement. In fact, I like the whole design much better than those chrome behemoths still widely used. I assume that's where the electronics are stored. Been using a tablet for a few years now so pressing buttons in a sequence looks pretty old fashion to me. Nice price and more bang for the buck than the one I purchased I believe for $1600 or so. Lighting the work area with led light is so cheap that a feature like that should be on every machine. Sorry to see Tod has gone white.......Yikes! You look the same......nice dye job. Bad news is I'll hit 82 this month....Holy shit, who knew!
Hey rick! Thanks for the comment. The spout is awesome and I was skeptical at first. Profitec has gone to a new naming convention dropping all the hundreds (Pro X00) to single words like: Jump, Drive, Move, GO, Twist. The Move hits and incredible sweet spot of features, design and price. If you don't have to have a rotary pump plumbable machine there's no better value in a made in EU machine. I've been shooting shiny metal boxes for 14 years now. They are a PITA to photograph and keep clean! I'm happy manufacturers are moving away from that look. I was born in '64 so just hit one of those milestone bdays - time flies! But, no dye job here. 😃 Marc
I learned a lot from you guys over the years so Thanks. Turns out my machine isn't a Profitec but a ECM Classika. Anyway, I'm totally a Decent fan now and oddly my coffee habit is much less than previous years. About a couple of years ago I purchased a couple of large coffee cups made from bamboo. Found the perfect recipe in the decent app that extracted a large amount of coffee from a double shot and it became my standard drink. I have one or two a day and usually drink it mostly cold which I don't mind a bit. I never do milk drinks! Certainly not everyone's taste but I go my own direction nowadays. So, your 60 and still looking good. My advice is keep moving and don't let your body lose it's flexibility. I did and I'm paying for it......I should never have quit golf. My golfing partner died and I never went back......DUMB.
I bought the Profitec Jump last month and love it. I did consider waiting for the Move, but was drawn to the E61 grouphead, lower price and styling. It would be good to see a side by side comparison at some point to see if I chose wisely!!
@@Wholelattelovepage I look forward to it! Also, thanks for giving insight into Profitec in your previous videos - they were extremely helpful when making my decision!
@@Wholelattelovepage I like the black, but really wonder what the three new colors will be in February. I would think: red, white, maybe a green or blue, just as long as they aren't 1980s pastels! I wouldn't mind an all-brushed-stainless look either. But I'm more inclined to get on this pre-order and have a machine my XMAS.
After $330 machine (with bult-in grinder) I recently bought Pro 300 and I'm waiting delivery of it some last weeks. "Move" has more features, looks very promising. But it's a new model. And I'm sure that after some years of users feedback and warranty issues Profitec will make updated revisions of the Move...I hope that Pro 300 is more reliable because it's simpler and it's old model which was updated and polished in many aspects through all these years.
Hey ER, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Internals in the Move are well proven. What's new are electronics controlling pre-infusion timing etc. Those are well proven and fairly straightforward. I expect reliability to be the same. PID temp control is electronic which tends to be more reliable than pressurstats which are mechanical. Marc
Hello, the Profitec Pro 300 allowed to manually configure each time whether I wanted to pull a espresso shot, or two shots, or ristretto shot or lungo shot with the "On/Off" lever. Is it correct my understanding that with the Profitec Move, now you have two programmable settings of my choice (e.g. first setting is programmed for one espresso shot and the second setting is programmed for one lungo) and if I have guests and want to pull two espresso shots at once, I cannot do it with the preset programs, correct? Whereas with the Pro 300, I am free to do it whenever I want. How easy would it be in this case with the Move to change my preset two programs and change either one of them to pull two espresso shots at once? Would it be to press for four seconds either button for changing a program and then count the seconds / until I get the amount for two espresso shots, stop and then one setting with be programmed to pull two espresso shots at once? What if I have four different coffee beans, which I want to brew at different temperatures, I would have only two possibilities (aka two programmed settings) correct? So if I switch coffee beans and neither of the two programmed settings is valid, I would need to reset the program with the 4-second reset and stop to save the setting? Thank you for the clarification.
Hi schan, Sounds like you like the full manual control of the Pro 300 where you always have to stop the extraction by turning off the brew switch? If so, you can do that. Just program one of the buttons in the menu for an extra long extraction time - maybe 50 seconds. When you press that button extraction starts. When you want it to stop press the button again. Running it like that will not change the programming so you can always manually stop the extraction. "How easy would it be in this case with the Move to change my preset two programs and change either one of them to pull two espresso shots at once? Would it be to press for four seconds either button for changing a program and then count the seconds / until I get the amount for two espresso shots, stop and then one setting with be programmed to pull two espresso shots at once?" - Yes! You do not need to count the seconds - they will show in the display as the shot is pulling "What if I have four different coffee beans, which I want to brew at different temperatures, I would have only two possibilities (aka two programmed settings) correct? So if I switch coffee beans and neither of the two programmed settings is valid, I would need to reset the program with the 4-second reset and stop to save the setting?" - Yes, you could reprogram or just use a really long extraction time and stop the shot manually as described above. Hope that helps! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you Marc ! Your explanation of setting a program that is longer for instance of 50 seconds, and then pressing the button again manually to stop it really solves the situation of only having two sets of program.
Thank you for this informative, detailed review. It is appreciated. I am currently comparing three machines in a similar class, including the Rancilio Silvia Pro X you mentioned.
Thanks for the great overview! I'm thinking of buying this but wanted to confirm - the only way to pull a shot manually is by holding down the single or double button for four seconds? Too bad they didn't make it quicker (I know I'm insane) by pushing both buttons at once or something. Otherwise, love this thing!
Hey Mark, Just program one of the buttons for a very long extraction time (with or without pre-infusions) of say 50 seconds or so. Then you can short press to start and short press to stop. Marc
Another superbly thorough review Marc ! This looks like a real game changer and I am thinking of perhaps going with this one rather than the Synchronika. I’ve already picked up a Mahlkonig grinder … now I just need the machine. Thanks again.
Hey c, thanks for the comment. If you frequent my videos you know the Synchronika is my long time favorite dual boiler in it's class. The new Synchronika II takes things to another level with capsule heaters in the group for fast warm up, programmable active/passive pre-infsuion and the other functions available on the Move. If you are not serving crowds, are okay with less steam capacity, don't need to plumb a machine the Move is good choice! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Very much appreciate your generous and thoughful comments Marc. You guys are starting to become for coffee what B&H is for photography. Thanks
Thanks for the vid!!!! I really enjoyed it Question though, @WholeLatteLove. Did you turn the steam temp all the way up? Would this help with the "slow" steam time?
Hey CW, you are welcome for the video and thanks for your comment and question! Yes, as mentioned in the video the service boiler temp was set to the max of 274F for the steaming tests. As a compact DB machine, the service boiler is smaller than those in full size DBs like the Profitec Drive or ECM Synchronika II. Although the boiler in the Move reaches same temp/pressure as those bigger machines the volume of steam is smaller in the Move. Hope that helps! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the reply. I am between the BDB or the Move. I think both are great machines and either way you can't go wrong. It's still a hard decision for me.
In the UK and Europe the Move isn't really comparable to the Silvia Pro X. The Move is £1700 and the Pro X £1300. quite a difference. Thanks for the in depth video.
Which really is weird. I mean, it's a German made machine and an italian machine. Why is it almost less expansie outside of those countries. As a German I only see it online for 2000€ at two retailers Ive never heard about
Hi from Oz, Great review and tests, thank you Mark & WLL team. A little off topic is there such thing as a flow control device for a thremoblock machine, if not would a dimmer mod damage the Thermoblock?
Hey james, You're welcome and thanks for the comment. Unfortunately I do not know if a dimmer mod would damage a thermoblock. Assuming you want to control the heating? I'm certain users have done mods to control pumps to do a form of flow control. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi Marc Thanks for the reply (sorry for the previous mis spelling of your name) yes, that’s what I meant, sorry wasn’t clear. Putting the dimmer mod on the pump to control the flow, could it damage the thermocoil/block from restricting its water flow. I have actually done it on a Sunbeam Barista Mini I picked up very cheap, was hoping for an opinion ( no liability of course) before I tried it on a more expensive machine. As there doesn’t seem to be any thremo’ style machines that have it as standard.
Marc, I was comparing the big brother to this , the ECM Synchronika II and like that on it, steam pressure holds very steady. I'm moving up from a Rocket Appartamento which drops steam pressure to .6bar after steaming a small amount of milk. What pressure will the Move start at, 2.5 bar? And what does it end at when you are done with your standard milk steam test? You pointed this out in your Synchronika II review but left this detail out on the Move. I'm concerned the .75L steam boiler may struggle just like my Appartamento. Other than that one concern, this looks like a great step up from heat exchanger to small efficient dual boiler. I love the design of the brew boiler attached to the top of the brew group.
Hey harvey, Thanks for the question! just published this short video showing full recovery th-cam.com/video/SyjeYu87LHI/w-d-xo.html Bonus: you get a call out in the video for asking the question! Marc
Hi w, good eye! It's a custom proxy puck made of silicone having a thermal conductivity of less than 0.5 W/m·K as specified in SCA Standard 350-2021 Marc
Hey smathews, Thanks for the question! just published this short video showing full recovery th-cam.com/video/SyjeYu87LHI/w-d-xo.html Bonus: you get a call out in the video for asking the question! Marc
Maybe it's just a preference by Profitec, but 9+ bar at the group is a tad high. Ideally you'd want 9 bar at the gauge which is typically 8 bar at the group. But this is seen across all their machines, James Hoffman noted this in his review of the Pro 500.
Hey gag, 4 screws off the top of the machine and you have open access to the OPV to set your max pressure to whatever you like. Pro 500 can be adjusted as well. Marc
Hi f, just measured clearances with an Acaia Lunar scale on the deck. With silicone dual spout it's 2 3/8" (60.3mm), Go bottomless with dual spout removed and its 4 1/4" (108mm). Hope that helps! Marc
Hey Eye, thanks for sharing you GO love! Steaming 5oz/150ml milk to 140 took 27 seconds on the Move. I ran same test on the GO a couple of years ago which you can see here: th-cam.com/video/aROy-ZjgZUQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=j2YqaOLmo32V74kk&t=546 On the GO you have to wait for the machine to heat up from brew temp before steaming. In the linked video I used 3 different methods with best result of 22 seconds. BUT that 22 does not include heat up time from brew temp and a 20 second wait after purging. On the Move, no waiting! It's ready to steam anytime. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage The MOVE manual describes a total power of 1700W for the US models, but the EU models have 2300W - does this affect the milk foam?
Thank you for the review, very informative. Very nice machine! Could you write, how much space there is between drip tray and portafilter spout (lower edge)? In other words: what is the maximum height of the cup that can be used with this machine with the standard portafilter?
This is great, I've just about decided that this will be my first espresso machine. Out of curiosity I searched for the ECM BRITA Aroma-C water filters that this machine can use and find them rather difficult to source, apparently none in the US, only Canada and EU. Will WLL be carrying them?
Marc, A great review, thanks, and it looks a tempting option when I want to replace my Profitec 500. I know you cover water treatment, but is it possible for the user to descale this machine? I know it is normally said that dual boiler machines cannot be descaled by the non-professional. But I have never really understood why.
Hey andrew, You're welcome and thanks for the comment and Q! Treating water is the way to go to prevent scale in first place. Manufacturer's do not want end users descaling machines because when end user descales a neglected machine scale chunks can dislodge and plug other plumbing in the machine. In non-neglected lightly scaled machine, it's difficult without technician level knowledge and skill to fully fill the service (steam) boiler with descaling solution as there's empty headroom in the boiler in normal operation. Difficult to fully rinse out descaler for same reason. Hope that helps! Marc
Hey Marc, I am curious if Whole Latte can do some testing on some lower end machines such as the Hi-Brew H10 Plus. Seems like more features like Pre-Infusion, Temp, Pressure controls are crossing into non boiler types. Would love to see a real review of these too.
Hi dc, yesterday, I posted a video on the new Gaggia Classic Pro E24 with brass boiler. In it I did novel temperature testing using a Ktype thermocouple probe that's centered within the coffee puck during an actual extraction. I've used a Scace device for temperature testing for more than a decade. I believe my new approach may be more accurate. I did the same tests an a few lower end espresso makers using thermoblock on-demand water heating. So far, none of them have performed very well compared to machines with real boilers and group heads with high thermal mass. The GCPE24 had in puck temp variation of ~2F. Some of the on demand machines had variations of >15F using the same test method. Check out the video here: th-cam.com/video/JB124pMbv24/w-d-xo.html Marc
I have to ask- how’s the cup warmer build quality? I have a cat, 11 lbs, that loves to jump on my current machine when it’s cooling down, and I doubt I can dissuade him if I ever get this one.
Hey drew, thanks for an excellent video request! They are in a way part of the boiler as the group usually mounts directly to the bottom of the boiler. This generally results in faster group head heat up times compared to E61. In an E61 a convection driven thermo-siphon from the boiler heats the group. This takes some time to flow and the mass of the E61 is higher than a ring group. E61 can be equipped with a manual flow control valve and have a pre-infusion chamber. On some machines like plumbable rotary pump E61 models from Profitec and ECM it's possible to do manual line pressure pre-infusion. Marc
Yeah, it's basically a miniaturized saturated group (in this case). It's directly heated by the boiler water sans thermosiphon. Heats faster and is more temperature stable. However it's pretty much not possible to install flow control.
Hi m, Most all ring group machines I've encountered use brass for the brew boiler for better thermal characteristics. There are some single boiler dual use machines using brass. Most straight steam (service) boilers are stainless but there are some copper w/brass end plates. Marc
Hi p, Here's a short video on the Classika highlighting main features: th-cam.com/video/IWGyl76a6X4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Ifxt3on-7XaPtnM4 You can find more info including specs here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-classika-pid?variant=43049977577526#product-video-gallery One major difference, The Classika is a single boiler machine so there's a short wait between brewing espresso as the machine heats to steaming temp to froth milk. The move is a dual boiler boiler so no waiting and you can brew and steam simultaneously at any time. Classika has an E61 group so can be equipped with flow control to manually run assorted extraction profiles. Hope that helps! Marc
Hi BBB, The Move uses a ring group and the Pro 600 is E61 group so can be equipped with flow control. Pro 600 has a larger brew boiler at .7L vs. .4L in the Move.
Wait, so this machine is better for the prosumer than a Rancillio silvia? But it does have a vibratory pump? I thought the Silvia was a real workhorse when it comes to great multiple espresso's at a time. Who is the Silvia for compared to the Move?
Hi s, I refer to the Silvia Pro X in the video. In the US, both machines are priced about the same. Both are dual boiler vibe pump machines. Compared to the Pro X, the Move has more features like programmable active/passive pre-infusion, time of day - day of week on/off programming. Marc
Just keep working hard and saving money. I used to watching these review while drinking my instant coffee. Then I saved enough money for these. Having GCP for 2 years and upgrade to Profiter Go this month. You can do it too, mate. Good luck.
Hi a, recovery is fairly quick. Typically ready to go again by the time you've prepped next extraction and rinsed and filled milk pitcher. It is a smaller dual boiler machine so it may fade a bit in back to back rapid fire use. If you anticipate regular fast and heavy use you may want to consider a machine with larger boilers.
@ Hello! Thanks for the reply! Actually I don’t need for regular fast back to back runs, but just considering it when there’s a family gathering or something.
Is it just the two whole steam tip, or was the steaming performance a little weak? 27 seconds means steaming milk is likely going to take longer than your shot, so you can’t start a shot, steam, and stop your shot after you’ve finished steaming.
Hi g, thanks for the question. Steaming 5oz/150ml milk is a bit slower than a high capacity dual boiler set to highest temp/pressure. Some users like fast vigorous steaming while others appreciate more time to work the milk. Shots can be programmed to stop automatically on the Move so you can do that or if running manual shots start steaming first. Marc
Great review as usual, Mark and @Wholelattelovepage! Unnecesary dig at the Silvia Pro X, but I get it. The Move solves for all the reasons that pushed me from the Pro 300 to the SPX and adds a few more like true pre-infusion and much more programmability. So this would have likely changed that decision, six months too late. But I can't say I'm unhappy with the SPX, borrowing from that Volvo commercial "it looks like a tank, but it's built like a tank" (paraphrasing)! Cheers!
I was considering both, but I always research servicing and part before buying and the Move won. If the steam element goes on the Silvia Pro you replace the entire boiler for $370, as it's one welded part, but on the Move you can replace the element for $49. Profitec seems to consider the future much better.
Question about the heatup time again. Looking back to this video, it seems the MOVE still take 11-12min from cold start to Ready-to-Brew, rather than 5-7min. Is that true? How it compare with the Pro 600 Fast heat up?
Is there any way/tool/accessories to cover the holes on the lid of the reservoir? Don't think leaving the water exposed for days through those holes is a good idea for something you gonna drink.
Hi z, Weidemann makes vegan leather covers for many machines like this - of course it has finger holes for the reservoir cover: www.wholelattelove.com/products/wiedemann-espressocover-r-profitec-pro-300?variant=40958543233078 Something similar? Also, the reservoir has a mount for Aroma-C water filter for water softening, particulates plus activated carbon for chemicals. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage they have a similar functioning one with a seemingly higher quality material. Of course the material is different but the functionality is the same. I think it’s misleading to say that
I am acctually looking for some dual boiler and for it's price in Europe You still getting Lelit Bianca v3 (white/black). Heating time and auto on/off sounds great but it's easy to set those on bianca + Rotapump and flow controll, desing. Hard choice.
Sounds like a great alternative to Sage Dual Boiler, if not for the lack of volumetrics. I simply can't understand why more producers don't put volumetric controls in their machines, it is so convenient.
Hi TA, It's a machine grade alternative to the Sage. Much higher build quality and serviceability! Volumetric requires a flow meter which introduces a potential point of failure. Marc
The group has active or passive heating? For passive heating the actual temperature of the group is lower with what you see on the display and you have to wait more than minimal machine heat-up time
Hi b, Thanks for the question. The boiler is mounted above and connected to the ring group for passive heating. The Fast Heat feature super heats water in the brew boiler during startup. Part of the Fast Heat program is a flush. Between the super-heating and flush all components are fully heated and ready to brew as demoed in the video. Marc
Hi l, for sure if your 43.5 is inches! Width for the Move is 10.63" and the A54 is 5.1". If your 43.5 is centimeters that's 17.1" so it would be close but still works on paper! Marc
Hi BZU, the brass used in espresso machine boilers is of a type that does not leach lead into water. They meet the tough specs required to sell in California and the even tougher requirements kin EU markets.
It was settled. I was going to buy the Pro 400. Now this? Now to decide if a dual boiler is better than E-61. I prefer the look of E-61. Which will make a better shot? 😢
If you're not jazzed about the buttoned-up look of this machine in black, Profitec is releasing more colors in the Spring of 2025! Can't wait to get this one on my kitchen counter!
Hi i, thanks for the question. Should not have a problem recovering with ~1 minute between drinks. By the time you prep the next one grind, tamp, milk it should be good to go.
The brew temperature is only important so having a the silicon produce less heat lost after brewing is a negligible benefit, it bmeans you just have to wait longer for the espresso to cool down before you can drink it.
Ed, Since it looks lasered on, if you're careful, and you can't really feel any grooves with your finger, you might be able to use 2000 grit wet-dry sandpaper to dress it out, sanding WITH the direction of the grain/brushing of the factory finish. O yo could slap a Whole Latte Love magnet on it. ;-)
So, Profitec is a down market ECM, made in the same factory with lot's of the same features, just look at the last video that Mark did on the ECM. Same features, similar build quality but at a slightly lower price & different aesthetic. It would have been a tough choice, but I went for the ECM.
I’m hooked on this machine - but it bugs me that Mark places the cups wrongly on top of the device. It has to heat the bottom of the cup, not the opening …
@@Wholelattelovepage i think, they are also wrong :) If i see cups placed that way, I can feel my lips burned and almost taste the unevenly temperatured espresso which is cold at the bottom of the cup. My mom is a chef and she always said: who places the cups bottoms up for being afraid of dust, is just having a dirty kitchen or isn’t drinking enough coffee :) I really enjoy your enthusiasm and the nerdy depth of your reviews. But being socialized to place the espresso cups bottom down on the machine makes me uncomfortable to see it being played wrong ;)
@@marcotralles8219 Thanks for the comment. Lot's of our staff coffee experts have worked in cafes. Couldn't find anyone who placed cups on warming surface with the open side up.
Hi t, The Pro 500 is a long-term favorite HX machine of mine but given the choice I'd go with the Move. Hard to ignore the the deeper feature set of this machine. Marc
Hi jw, you should check out the ECM Mechanika Max. It's an HX boiler, E61, plumbable, rotary pump machine with similar functions. It runs a couple hundred more: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-mechanika-max-espresso-machine?variant=43049695281206 Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks - have had my eye on that one too, but I prefer the integrated/saturated group head style vs the E61. Plus it’s a dual boiler, super quick heat up and more temp stable. But I wish it was plumbable. Seems the only saturated style with a rotary pump is the Micra which is 2x the price! Waiting for someone to challenge La Marzocco there.
If they made this machine plumbable and had a rotary pump, I would get rid of my profitec drive within seconds. Don’t get me wrong I love it but I would prefer a saturated Group over the e61 and it’s less maintenance, + smaller. The polished chrome is so hard to keep clean 😅
Thanks for the great review! This seems like a dream machine... almost. The new portafilter is exactly what I want, same to to joysticks for water/steam. Quick startup time is great for home. The PID controls are still old school. I wish a BMW iDrive style control, or just touch screen. Lack of smartphone integration is disappointing.
Hi gigi, Thanks for the comment. Don't know where you are located but in US price is good value compared to similar machines like Silvia Pro X that has fewer features and more utilitarian aesthetic. Marc
Hey richard, from a design/style perspective manufacturers try to minimize screens to help maintain a more classic look? Rocket Espresso was famous for this with designers intentionally hiding PID displays behind drip trays or using removable screens on many machines. Marc
Hey david, you can still do manual extractions - this is also how you program a button. Press and hold either brew button for 4 seconds. Then select if you want pre-infusion on or off. Press again to start pre-infusion (if enabled) or the normal extraction. It will run until you press the button again to stop. Thing I like here is all the timings will be saved. So if the shot was great you can instantly repeat those parameters exactly next time you press the button. If you always wanted to allow an extraction to run until you press the brew button to stop, just program an extraction time that's far too long say 50 seconds. Marc
I like Profitec coffee machines, but this model has many shortcomings that make it difficult to use. That breaks my heart. The relay is not protected from water - it's absurd Many wires are placed directly on the heating elements-there's no safety margin at all.
Hi K, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I've been inside most every prosumer level semi-auto machine available in North America over the past decade. The static relays mounted up high like they are in the Move are about as far away from water as I've seen. And, unlike some machines all internal moisture is routed to the drip tray. The wiring here is typical to what you see inside this type of machine. Not really exposed to heating elements as those are inside the boilers. Marc
Hey lex, I introduce the ECM Puristika with external glass reservoir: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-puristika-single-boiler-espresso-machine?variant=43083787239478 Marc
$2k, ÷ 6.50 = 307 cups of coffee.... Honestly, BEFORE I got my first Espresso machine ($700/2016/still works) I still didn't buy THAT much coffee... Like it, just can't justify, being the only espresso person in the house..
“Imagine walking up early to go to work and the sun hasn’t come yet, but your machine shines like a beacon guiding you to perfect morning shot” … I am buying ❤
Best reviews on the web. Love all the temp tests as well as the instructional view inside the machines. Every time I watch one of your reviews I learn something new.
Hey steven, Wow, thanks! I love going under the hood with Todd!
Marc
Very informative review. It's funny: As a German I watch an US channel to review a German product ;-) But your review are really good and helpful. Thanks.
Hey k, you are welcome and thanks for the comment!
Mark and Todd y'all are so great together! Love the synergy you two have
Hey J, thanks for the comment. We’re coming up on 14 years working together on espresso machines!
Marc
La Marzocco was the first to use the insert on the portafilter on the micra. However, their’s is plastic. I do prefer how Profitec chose silicon.
Professional and detailed review. How does the profitec move stack up to the lelit elizabeth in your opinion?
Great review, Marc. Always love watching your stuff.
Hey esquire, thanks for the kind words!
Marc
Can't wait to work on one of these beautiful machines!
Just saw the silicone spout on the Profitec channel. One bonus is you don’t need the tamping matt with it. Nice.
Hey Q, thanks for the comment. It's like a built in tamp mat for counter edge.
Marc
Very nice machine, thank you for the review.
Hey larry, Thanks for watching and the comment!
Marc
Hi, Marc… Thanks a lot ;-) Very nice and innovative machine if you are looking for a more modern design than classic ECM machines. Impressive capabilities at that price point and to my mind a very good entry-level machine for _serious_ espresso coffee fans.
Oh, I forgot… These concrete handles look really sick - architects are going to _love_ them! I do (not being an architect ;-)
Hey agcs, You are welcome! The concrete handles are really cool!
Marc
I've been a Decent Espresso owner since Nov 2020 so you know I'm not changing. My previous was a Profitec machine so I feel free to comment. The MOVE name has no meaning in the coffee world...end of story. The silicon pouring spout is a fabulous idea and long, long overdue. Supply a bottomless portafilter with the machine and silicon poring spout modifies to suit the use. It's cheaper, gives more to the customer and is such a simple solution that it baffles the mind on why it took so long to implement. In fact, I like the whole design much better than those chrome behemoths still widely used. I assume that's where the electronics are stored. Been using a tablet for a few years now so pressing buttons in a sequence looks pretty old fashion to me.
Nice price and more bang for the buck than the one I purchased I believe for $1600 or so. Lighting the work area with led light is so cheap that a feature like that should be on every machine.
Sorry to see Tod has gone white.......Yikes! You look the same......nice dye job.
Bad news is I'll hit 82 this month....Holy shit, who knew!
Hey rick! Thanks for the comment. The spout is awesome and I was skeptical at first. Profitec has gone to a new naming convention dropping all the hundreds (Pro X00) to single words like: Jump, Drive, Move, GO, Twist. The Move hits and incredible sweet spot of features, design and price. If you don't have to have a rotary pump plumbable machine there's no better value in a made in EU machine. I've been shooting shiny metal boxes for 14 years now. They are a PITA to photograph and keep clean! I'm happy manufacturers are moving away from that look.
I was born in '64 so just hit one of those milestone bdays - time flies! But, no dye job here. 😃
Marc
I learned a lot from you guys over the years so Thanks.
Turns out my machine isn't a Profitec but a ECM Classika.
Anyway, I'm totally a Decent fan now and oddly my coffee habit is much less than previous years.
About a couple of years ago I purchased a couple of large coffee cups made from bamboo. Found the perfect recipe in the decent app that extracted a large amount of coffee from a double shot and it became my standard drink. I have one or two a day and usually drink it mostly cold which I don't mind a bit. I never do milk drinks! Certainly not everyone's taste but I go my own direction nowadays.
So, your 60 and still looking good. My advice is keep moving and don't let your body lose it's flexibility. I did and I'm paying for it......I should never have quit golf. My golfing partner died and I never went back......DUMB.
@@Rick9482 Thanks for the advice! I started a morning core exercise routine about 6 years ago that changed my life!
Marc
I bought the Profitec Jump last month and love it. I did consider waiting for the Move, but was drawn to the E61 grouphead, lower price and styling. It would be good to see a side by side comparison at some point to see if I chose wisely!!
Hey Fsd, thanks for sharing your thoughts on the Jump. We should have a video coming soon on the machine.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I look forward to it! Also, thanks for giving insight into Profitec in your previous videos - they were extremely helpful when making my decision!
@@Wholelattelovepage waiting for that vid!!
This is the model has the features and modern esthetics that I have been wishing for. I just hope Profitec releases this model in white.
Hey k, Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Profitec says 3 new colors coming in 2025 - maybe white?
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I like the black, but really wonder what the three new colors will be in February. I would think: red, white, maybe a green or blue, just as long as they aren't 1980s pastels! I wouldn't mind an all-brushed-stainless look either. But I'm more inclined to get on this pre-order and have a machine my XMAS.
The new colours will apparently be red, yellow, and blue - to match those of the Profitec Go.
After $330 machine (with bult-in grinder) I recently bought Pro 300 and I'm waiting delivery of it some last weeks. "Move" has more features, looks very promising. But it's a new model. And I'm sure that after some years of users feedback and warranty issues Profitec will make updated revisions of the Move...I hope that Pro 300 is more reliable because it's simpler and it's old model which was updated and polished in many aspects through all these years.
Hey ER, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Internals in the Move are well proven. What's new are electronics controlling pre-infusion timing etc. Those are well proven and fairly straightforward. I expect reliability to be the same. PID temp control is electronic which tends to be more reliable than pressurstats which are mechanical.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks, Marc!
Looks like a great machine. A pity that they did not upgrade that water tank lid with the two holes in it by a lid with hinges.
Hello, the Profitec Pro 300 allowed to manually configure each time whether I wanted to pull a espresso shot, or two shots, or ristretto shot or lungo shot with the "On/Off" lever. Is it correct my understanding that with the Profitec Move, now you have two programmable settings of my choice (e.g. first setting is programmed for one espresso shot and the second setting is programmed for one lungo) and if I have guests and want to pull two espresso shots at once, I cannot do it with the preset programs, correct? Whereas with the Pro 300, I am free to do it whenever I want. How easy would it be in this case with the Move to change my preset two programs and change either one of them to pull two espresso shots at once? Would it be to press for four seconds either button for changing a program and then count the seconds / until I get the amount for two espresso shots, stop and then one setting with be programmed to pull two espresso shots at once? What if I have four different coffee beans, which I want to brew at different temperatures, I would have only two possibilities (aka two programmed settings) correct? So if I switch coffee beans and neither of the two programmed settings is valid, I would need to reset the program with the 4-second reset and stop to save the setting? Thank you for the clarification.
Hi schan, Sounds like you like the full manual control of the Pro 300 where you always have to stop the extraction by turning off the brew switch? If so, you can do that. Just program one of the buttons in the menu for an extra long extraction time - maybe 50 seconds. When you press that button extraction starts. When you want it to stop press the button again. Running it like that will not change the programming so you can always manually stop the extraction.
"How easy would it be in this case with the Move to change my preset two programs and change either one of them to pull two espresso shots at once? Would it be to press for four seconds either button for changing a program and then count the seconds / until I get the amount for two espresso shots, stop and then one setting with be programmed to pull two espresso shots at once?" - Yes! You do not need to count the seconds - they will show in the display as the shot is pulling
"What if I have four different coffee beans, which I want to brew at different temperatures, I would have only two possibilities (aka two programmed settings) correct? So if I switch coffee beans and neither of the two programmed settings is valid, I would need to reset the program with the 4-second reset and stop to save the setting?" - Yes, you could reprogram or just use a really long extraction time and stop the shot manually as described above.
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you Marc ! Your explanation of setting a program that is longer for instance of 50 seconds, and then pressing the button again manually to stop it really solves the situation of only having two sets of program.
Great video and very informative testing! Thanks. When I buy my next machine, I will be buying it from you.
Hey b, thanks for the comment and your future business!
Marc
Awesome review as usual, Marc! I just purchased mine from WLL!
Hey a, Thanks for the comment and your patronage!
Marc
Flair has a 3-in-1 58mm portafilter that’s all metal and lets you have bottomless, 2 spout, or single spout. I like it
Thank you for this informative, detailed review. It is appreciated. I am currently comparing three machines in a similar class, including the Rancilio Silvia Pro X you mentioned.
Thanks for the great overview! I'm thinking of buying this but wanted to confirm - the only way to pull a shot manually is by holding down the single or double button for four seconds? Too bad they didn't make it quicker (I know I'm insane) by pushing both buttons at once or something. Otherwise, love this thing!
Hey Mark, Just program one of the buttons for a very long extraction time (with or without pre-infusions) of say 50 seconds or so. Then you can short press to start and short press to stop.
Marc
Hi Marc. Watched this again after watching the Silvia pro x.
And…
@@Wholelattelovepage can’t deny the value of profitec coupled with the build quality plus features.
How do the concrete knobs feel on the hands?
Hey okay, the concrete is "polished" so it's fairly smooth. Not as slick as plastic but not gritty/grabby.
Marc
Another superbly thorough review Marc ! This looks like a real game changer and I am thinking of perhaps going with this one rather than the Synchronika. I’ve already picked up a Mahlkonig grinder … now I just need the machine. Thanks again.
Hey c, thanks for the comment. If you frequent my videos you know the Synchronika is my long time favorite dual boiler in it's class. The new Synchronika II takes things to another level with capsule heaters in the group for fast warm up, programmable active/passive pre-infsuion and the other functions available on the Move. If you are not serving crowds, are okay with less steam capacity, don't need to plumb a machine the Move is good choice!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Very much appreciate your generous and thoughful comments Marc. You guys are starting to become for coffee what B&H is for photography. Thanks
Thanks for the vid!!!! I really enjoyed it
Question though, @WholeLatteLove. Did you turn the steam temp all the way up? Would this help with the "slow" steam time?
Hey CW, you are welcome for the video and thanks for your comment and question! Yes, as mentioned in the video the service boiler temp was set to the max of 274F for the steaming tests. As a compact DB machine, the service boiler is smaller than those in full size DBs like the Profitec Drive or ECM Synchronika II. Although the boiler in the Move reaches same temp/pressure as those bigger machines the volume of steam is smaller in the Move. Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the reply. I am between the BDB or the Move. I think both are great machines and either way you can't go wrong. It's still a hard decision for me.
In the UK and Europe the Move isn't really comparable to the Silvia Pro X. The Move is £1700 and the Pro X £1300. quite a difference. Thanks for the in depth video.
Thanks for sharing
Which really is weird. I mean, it's a German made machine and an italian machine. Why is it almost less expansie outside of those countries. As a German I only see it online for 2000€ at two retailers Ive never heard about
Way better than my breville. Thanks for your review. ❤
Hey 7HH, you are welcome and thanks for your comment. Curious which Breville and why?
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage the bes920.
Awesome 👏🏾 I was wondering if you guys we’re going carry this🥰
Hey phoenix, Thanks - yes! www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-move-espresso-machine?variant=43025466523702
Hi from Oz,
Great review and tests, thank you Mark & WLL team.
A little off topic is there such thing as a flow control device for a thremoblock machine, if not would a dimmer mod damage the Thermoblock?
Hey james, You're welcome and thanks for the comment. Unfortunately I do not know if a dimmer mod would damage a thermoblock. Assuming you want to control the heating? I'm certain users have done mods to control pumps to do a form of flow control.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage
Hi Marc
Thanks for the reply (sorry for the previous mis spelling of your name) yes, that’s what I meant, sorry wasn’t clear. Putting the dimmer mod on the pump to control the flow, could it damage the thermocoil/block from restricting its water flow. I have actually done it on a Sunbeam Barista Mini I picked up very cheap, was hoping for an opinion ( no liability of course) before I tried it on a more expensive machine. As there doesn’t seem to be any thremo’ style machines that have it as standard.
Marc, I was comparing the big brother to this , the ECM Synchronika II and like that on it, steam pressure holds very steady. I'm moving up from a Rocket Appartamento which drops steam pressure to .6bar after steaming a small amount of milk. What pressure will the Move start at, 2.5 bar? And what does it end at when you are done with your standard milk steam test? You pointed this out in your Synchronika II review but left this detail out on the Move. I'm concerned the .75L steam boiler may struggle just like my Appartamento. Other than that one concern, this looks like a great step up from heat exchanger to small efficient dual boiler. I love the design of the brew boiler attached to the top of the brew group.
Based on a 27 second steam time, I'd also be worried the steam boiler is struggling. Silvia Pro X did the same test in 15 seconds.
Also, with the same 2 hole steam tip the Synchronika II did the test in 18 seconds, so Move has about 66% of the steam power of the Synchronika.
Hey harvey, Thanks for the question! just published this short video showing full recovery th-cam.com/video/SyjeYu87LHI/w-d-xo.html
Bonus: you get a call out in the video for asking the question!
Marc
What's that yellow thing in the T.P.D? Looks like a puck heat mass simulator, but I cannot find any info.
Hi w, good eye! It's a custom proxy puck made of silicone having a thermal conductivity of less than 0.5 W/m·K as specified in SCA Standard 350-2021
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Oh thank you so much Marc! I'll make my own one with the speca you gave to me. I wish you my best regards.
May I know how long it takes to recover to full steam pressure after steaming 5oz?
Hey smathews, Thanks for the question! just published this short video showing full recovery th-cam.com/video/SyjeYu87LHI/w-d-xo.html
Bonus: you get a call out in the video for asking the question!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks, Marc! I really appreciate it!
Maybe it's just a preference by Profitec, but 9+ bar at the group is a tad high. Ideally you'd want 9 bar at the gauge which is typically 8 bar at the group. But this is seen across all their machines, James Hoffman noted this in his review of the Pro 500.
Hey gag, 4 screws off the top of the machine and you have open access to the OPV to set your max pressure to whatever you like. Pro 500 can be adjusted as well.
Marc
Is there room to use a scale if the dual spout is on the portafilter? The space looks very tight.
Hi f, just measured clearances with an Acaia Lunar scale on the deck. With silicone dual spout it's 2 3/8" (60.3mm), Go bottomless with dual spout removed and its 4 1/4" (108mm).
Hope that helps!
Marc
I love my Profitec Go, but this definitely has my attention. How is steaming performance on this as compared to the Go?
Hey Eye, thanks for sharing you GO love! Steaming 5oz/150ml milk to 140 took 27 seconds on the Move. I ran same test on the GO a couple of years ago which you can see here: th-cam.com/video/aROy-ZjgZUQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=j2YqaOLmo32V74kk&t=546
On the GO you have to wait for the machine to heat up from brew temp before steaming. In the linked video I used 3 different methods with best result of 22 seconds. BUT that 22 does not include heat up time from brew temp and a 20 second wait after purging. On the Move, no waiting! It's ready to steam anytime.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage The MOVE manual describes a total power of 1700W for the US models, but the EU models have 2300W - does this affect the milk foam?
Thank you for the review, very informative. Very nice machine! Could you write, how much space there is between drip tray and portafilter spout (lower edge)? In other words: what is the maximum height of the cup that can be used with this machine with the standard portafilter?
Hey v, clearance under the dual spout is 3"/7.62cm. Of course, they are flexible so could fit a little more.
Marc
This is great, I've just about decided that this will be my first espresso machine. Out of curiosity I searched for the ECM BRITA Aroma-C water filters that this machine can use and find them rather difficult to source, apparently none in the US, only Canada and EU. Will WLL be carrying them?
Hey Bob, I'm told we should have them soon. Sorry I do not have an exact ETA!
Marc
Is the milk steamer a two spout? And if so are you able to switch it out for a four?
Hi a, yes, 2 hole tip. Should be able to switch to 4.
Can you please check out the Zuriga? It has real fast heat up and steam and should be the better Choice!? Thanks
Hi booky, not familiar with those machines but appears to be a simple, small, aluminum single boiler?
Marc
I like the silicone insert. Prevents having two devices.
Hi b, Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Marc
Does anyone know how the profitec move compares to a lelit Bianca v3?
I know that the v3 doesn’t have the volumetric, but besides that?
Marc, A great review, thanks, and it looks a tempting option when I want to replace my Profitec 500. I know you cover water treatment, but is it possible for the user to descale this machine? I know it is normally said that dual boiler machines cannot be descaled by the non-professional. But I have never really understood why.
Hey andrew, You're welcome and thanks for the comment and Q! Treating water is the way to go to prevent scale in first place. Manufacturer's do not want end users descaling machines because when end user descales a neglected machine scale chunks can dislodge and plug other plumbing in the machine. In non-neglected lightly scaled machine, it's difficult without technician level knowledge and skill to fully fill the service (steam) boiler with descaling solution as there's empty headroom in the boiler in normal operation. Difficult to fully rinse out descaler for same reason. Hope that helps!
Marc
Hey Marc, I am curious if Whole Latte can do some testing on some lower end machines such as the Hi-Brew H10 Plus. Seems like more features like Pre-Infusion, Temp, Pressure controls are crossing into non boiler types. Would love to see a real review of these too.
Hi dc, yesterday, I posted a video on the new Gaggia Classic Pro E24 with brass boiler. In it I did novel temperature testing using a Ktype thermocouple probe that's centered within the coffee puck during an actual extraction. I've used a Scace device for temperature testing for more than a decade. I believe my new approach may be more accurate. I did the same tests an a few lower end espresso makers using thermoblock on-demand water heating. So far, none of them have performed very well compared to machines with real boilers and group heads with high thermal mass. The GCPE24 had in puck temp variation of ~2F. Some of the on demand machines had variations of >15F using the same test method. Check out the video here: th-cam.com/video/JB124pMbv24/w-d-xo.html
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you
I have to ask- how’s the cup warmer build quality? I have a cat, 11 lbs, that loves to jump on my current machine when it’s cooling down, and I doubt I can dissuade him if I ever get this one.
Hi d, It's a solid build - fairly certain the cat will not be a problem.
Marc
Mark, can you do a video or please explain a "ring" brew group? Looks like it's part of the boiler? Advantages or disadvantages compared to the e61?
Hey drew, thanks for an excellent video request! They are in a way part of the boiler as the group usually mounts directly to the bottom of the boiler. This generally results in faster group head heat up times compared to E61. In an E61 a convection driven thermo-siphon from the boiler heats the group. This takes some time to flow and the mass of the E61 is higher than a ring group. E61 can be equipped with a manual flow control valve and have a pre-infusion chamber. On some machines like plumbable rotary pump E61 models from Profitec and ECM it's possible to do manual line pressure pre-infusion.
Marc
Yeah, it's basically a miniaturized saturated group (in this case). It's directly heated by the boiler water sans thermosiphon. Heats faster and is more temperature stable. However it's pretty much not possible to install flow control.
Do you think the MOVE can do 3 milk drinks back to back, or close? If so I am interested
Any reason why the steam and brew boiler are to different materials? Pros-Cons of brass over stainless?
Hi m, Most all ring group machines I've encountered use brass for the brew boiler for better thermal characteristics. There are some single boiler dual use machines using brass. Most straight steam (service) boilers are stainless but there are some copper w/brass end plates.
Marc
Please compare the Move to the ECM Classika PID. Currently using a Gaggia Classic 9 bar
Hi p, Here's a short video on the Classika highlighting main features: th-cam.com/video/IWGyl76a6X4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Ifxt3on-7XaPtnM4 You can find more info including specs here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-classika-pid?variant=43049977577526#product-video-gallery
One major difference, The Classika is a single boiler machine so there's a short wait between brewing espresso as the machine heats to steaming temp to froth milk. The move is a dual boiler boiler so no waiting and you can brew and steam simultaneously at any time. Classika has an E61 group so can be equipped with flow control to manually run assorted extraction profiles. Hope that helps!
Marc
am i missing anything if i was to move from a profitec pro 600 to this?
Hi BBB, The Move uses a ring group and the Pro 600 is E61 group so can be equipped with flow control. Pro 600 has a larger brew boiler at .7L vs. .4L in the Move.
Wait, so this machine is better for the prosumer than a Rancillio silvia? But it does have a vibratory pump? I thought the Silvia was a real workhorse when it comes to great multiple espresso's at a time. Who is the Silvia for compared to the Move?
Hi s, I refer to the Silvia Pro X in the video. In the US, both machines are priced about the same. Both are dual boiler vibe pump machines. Compared to the Pro X, the Move has more features like programmable active/passive pre-infusion, time of day - day of week on/off programming.
Marc
Very very nice machine..
We agree!
yes please
That machine looks legit. What's the maximum amount of time one can preinfuse for (passive and active)?
Hey blue, thanks for the comment and question. Maximum programmable times are 60 seconds for all timed functions.
Marc
Why do I keep watching reviews of espresso machines I can’t afford?
Aspirations!
You will afford it one day friend. Keep up the good work
I second that 😂
Ugh same. And don’t know how to use.
Just keep working hard and saving money. I used to watching these review while drinking my instant coffee. Then I saved enough money for these. Having GCP for 2 years and upgrade to Profiter Go this month. You can do it too, mate. Good luck.
Is steam performance suitable for a serious latte art? Really comprehensive review 👍🏻 attractive one!
Hey m, steam performance is more than adequate for latte art.
Marc
Great review, thanks for sharing! Question, how this machine performs on back to back milk shots like in a family gathering or something? Thanks!
Hi a, recovery is fairly quick. Typically ready to go again by the time you've prepped next extraction and rinsed and filled milk pitcher. It is a smaller dual boiler machine so it may fade a bit in back to back rapid fire use. If you anticipate regular fast and heavy use you may want to consider a machine with larger boilers.
@ Hello! Thanks for the reply! Actually I don’t need for regular fast back to back runs, but just considering it when there’s a family gathering or something.
Is it just the two whole steam tip, or was the steaming performance a little weak? 27 seconds means steaming milk is likely going to take longer than your shot, so you can’t start a shot, steam, and stop your shot after you’ve finished steaming.
Hi g, thanks for the question. Steaming 5oz/150ml milk is a bit slower than a high capacity dual boiler set to highest temp/pressure. Some users like fast vigorous steaming while others appreciate more time to work the milk. Shots can be programmed to stop automatically on the Move so you can do that or if running manual shots start steaming first.
Marc
Great review as usual, Mark and @Wholelattelovepage! Unnecesary dig at the Silvia Pro X, but I get it. The Move solves for all the reasons that pushed me from the Pro 300 to the SPX and adds a few more like true pre-infusion and much more programmability. So this would have likely changed that decision, six months too late. But I can't say I'm unhappy with the SPX, borrowing from that Volvo commercial "it looks like a tank, but it's built like a tank" (paraphrasing)! Cheers!
Hey c, Thanks for the comment! Just pointing out a features, value, aesthetic comparison on similarly (in US) priced machines.
Marc
I was considering both, but I always research servicing and part before buying and the Move won. If the steam element goes on the Silvia Pro you replace the entire boiler for $370, as it's one welded part, but on the Move you can replace the element for $49. Profitec seems to consider the future much better.
Question about the heatup time again. Looking back to this video, it seems the MOVE still take 11-12min from cold start to Ready-to-Brew, rather than 5-7min. Is that true? How it compare with the Pro 600 Fast heat up?
Is there any way/tool/accessories to cover the holes on the lid of the reservoir?
Don't think leaving the water exposed for days through those holes is a good idea for something you gonna drink.
Hi z, Weidemann makes vegan leather covers for many machines like this - of course it has finger holes for the reservoir cover: www.wholelattelove.com/products/wiedemann-espressocover-r-profitec-pro-300?variant=40958543233078
Something similar? Also, the reservoir has a mount for Aroma-C water filter for water softening, particulates plus activated carbon for chemicals.
Marc
Is it the first of its kind for that portafilter ? La Marzocco did it
Hi B, LM has a bottomless with silicone dual spout insert?
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage they have a similar functioning one with a seemingly higher quality material. Of course the material is different but the functionality is the same. I think it’s misleading to say that
@@Bowser558The way I heard it, he was making a point of the silicone spout, the material being the unique part.
I am acctually looking for some dual boiler and for it's price in Europe You still getting Lelit Bianca v3 (white/black).
Heating time and auto on/off sounds great but it's easy to set those on bianca + Rotapump and flow controll, desing.
Hard choice.
Is there a reason not to use the fast heat up option? Does it stress the machine more by any chance?
Hey ray, Machine is built to take it. Many machines run at higher temps than what's used during fast heat up on the Move.
Marc
Sounds like a great alternative to Sage Dual Boiler, if not for the lack of volumetrics. I simply can't understand why more producers don't put volumetric controls in their machines, it is so convenient.
Hi TA, It's a machine grade alternative to the Sage. Much higher build quality and serviceability! Volumetric requires a flow meter which introduces a potential point of failure.
Marc
Would the move work for a small coffee cart?
Hi S, It's really intended as a home use machine.
The group has active or passive heating? For passive heating the actual temperature of the group is lower with what you see on the display and you have to wait more than minimal machine heat-up time
Hi b, Thanks for the question. The boiler is mounted above and connected to the ring group for passive heating. The Fast Heat feature super heats water in the brew boiler during startup. Part of the Fast Heat program is a flush. Between the super-heating and flush all components are fully heated and ready to brew as demoed in the video.
Marc
I have 43.5 width, can I make the move work with also A54 grinder? Thanks.
Hi l, for sure if your 43.5 is inches! Width for the Move is 10.63" and the A54 is 5.1". If your 43.5 is centimeters that's 17.1" so it would be close but still works on paper!
Marc
Is brass boiler safe to use? I heard there’s a risk for lead leaching into the water .
Hi BZU, the brass used in espresso machine boilers is of a type that does not leach lead into water. They meet the tough specs required to sell in California and the even tougher requirements kin EU markets.
I'm thinking of this to be my next home espresso machine. Do you ship to the Philippines?
Hey kara, unfortunately we do not :(
Marc
Marc, when will these be for sale. This may be exactly the machine I have been looking for
Hi dc, available for pre-order now: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-move-espresso-machine?variant=43025466523702
Marc
It was settled. I was going to buy the Pro 400. Now this? Now to decide if a dual boiler is better than E-61. I prefer the look of E-61. Which will make a better shot? 😢
Simple question. Profitec Move or ECM MAX ?
If you're not jazzed about the buttoned-up look of this machine in black, Profitec is releasing more colors in the Spring of 2025!
Can't wait to get this one on my kitchen counter!
Hey m, yes, love the black but more colors on the way!
Marc
Beautiful machine. It should take some sales away from Rancilio.
Okay give me a moment I'm going to start imagining things 0:02 😂
Can this handle 4-6 lattes back to back?
Hi i, thanks for the question. Should not have a problem recovering with ~1 minute between drinks. By the time you prep the next one grind, tamp, milk it should be good to go.
The brew temperature is only important so having a the silicon produce less heat lost after brewing is a negligible benefit, it bmeans you just have to wait longer for the espresso to cool down before you can drink it.
Fantastically detailed review. Just wished they had either made the name smaller or left it off the front. But I’m just being ultra picky!
Hey Ed, Thanks for the comment - it's okay to be picky!
Marc
Ed, Since it looks lasered on, if you're careful, and you can't really feel any grooves with your finger, you might be able to use 2000 grit wet-dry sandpaper to dress it out, sanding WITH the direction of the grain/brushing of the factory finish. O yo could slap a Whole Latte Love magnet on it. ;-)
@@BobJohnsonSince1970 I don’t think I trust myself with sandpaper 😂 A sticker it is!
So, Profitec is a down market ECM, made in the same factory with lot's of the same features, just look at the last video that Mark did on the ECM. Same features, similar build quality but at a slightly lower price & different aesthetic. It would have been a tough choice, but I went for the ECM.
Exactly!
Marc
The porter filter is the first of its kind? I think you just brushed over La Marzocco 😅
Are ECM and Profitec from the same company?
Yes
Yes
@@DuBstep115basically the same company, features are often indiscernible.
@Persepolis8564 kinda like Toyota/Lexus. ECM is the high line with more refined finish details. Similar machines use many of the same internals.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you, Marc. Do you know why they used a vibratory pump, not a rotary pump? I thought rotary pumps are the standard now
So its time based, not volumetric?
Correct
I’m hooked on this machine - but it bugs me that Mark places the cups wrongly on top of the device. It has to heat the bottom of the cup, not the opening …
Hey m, Why does that bug you? Think most everyone place cups upside down.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage i think, they are also wrong :)
If i see cups placed that way, I can feel my lips burned and almost taste the unevenly temperatured espresso which is cold at the bottom of the cup.
My mom is a chef and she always said: who places the cups bottoms up for being afraid of dust, is just having a dirty kitchen or isn’t drinking enough coffee :)
I really enjoy your enthusiasm and the nerdy depth of your reviews. But being socialized to place the espresso cups bottom down on the machine makes me uncomfortable to see it being played wrong ;)
@@marcotralles8219 Thanks for the comment. Lot's of our staff coffee experts have worked in cafes. Couldn't find anyone who placed cups on warming surface with the open side up.
So, if you had to choose this or the pro 500, which would you prefer
Hi t, The Pro 500 is a long-term favorite HX machine of mine but given the choice I'd go with the Move. Hard to ignore the the deeper feature set of this machine.
Marc
@ just ordered the Jump. I’m scared of electronics for longevity and like the paddles instead of twist knobs. Who needs a PID anyways?
Wish it had a rotary pump - if so I’d buy it
If the noise bothers you, don't be discouraged. They're as quiet as my rotary pump Pro-700.
If you want a quiet rotary pump machine, look at the ECM machine's. That's what got me to buy one, almost silent.
Hi jw, you should check out the ECM Mechanika Max. It's an HX boiler, E61, plumbable, rotary pump machine with similar functions. It runs a couple hundred more: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-mechanika-max-espresso-machine?variant=43049695281206
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks - have had my eye on that one too, but I prefer the integrated/saturated group head style vs the E61. Plus it’s a dual boiler, super quick heat up and more temp stable.
But I wish it was plumbable. Seems the only saturated style with a rotary pump is the Micra which is 2x the price! Waiting for someone to challenge La Marzocco there.
@@stevenswann2835 Love the rotary sound, but more about being plumbable so it can be my end game machine.
If they made this machine plumbable and had a rotary pump, I would get rid of my profitec drive within seconds. Don’t get me wrong I love it but I would prefer a saturated Group over the e61 and it’s less maintenance, + smaller. The polished chrome is so hard to keep clean 😅
Hey r, thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Marc
2:48 that's OLED display ??? 😢
Hi b, yes, Profitec specs call it OLED.
Marc
Thanks for the great review! This seems like a dream machine... almost. The new portafilter is exactly what I want, same to to joysticks for water/steam. Quick startup time is great for home. The PID controls are still old school. I wish a BMW iDrive style control, or just touch screen. Lack of smartphone integration is disappointing.
Uhh nice but a lil steep,
Might as well for the synchronika
Hi gigi, Thanks for the comment. Don't know where you are located but in US price is good value compared to similar machines like Silvia Pro X that has fewer features and more utilitarian aesthetic.
Marc
I wish it had toggle buttons.
Brew by time, vibration pump, small boiler, and long steam times, seems a few too many short comings at the price point
Hi a, thanks for the comment. Comparing machines like Silvia Pro X at similar price in US the Move has more going feature and design wise.
I think I'm ready to ditch my Lelit Mara X😉
"Moving" to a DB from HX?
@@Wholelattelovepage underrated pun. :(
Why is the screen so small!
Hey richard, from a design/style perspective manufacturers try to minimize screens to help maintain a more classic look? Rocket Espresso was famous for this with designers intentionally hiding PID displays behind drip trays or using removable screens on many machines.
Marc
There’s a reason Mark’s the sales guy….im an Eskimo, sell me some ice Mark!
lol
Definitely a strange choice to get rid of a semiautomatic mode... Wonder why they made that choice.
To be clear I mean a semiauto switch, not a semiauto functionality entirely.
Hey david, you can still do manual extractions - this is also how you program a button. Press and hold either brew button for 4 seconds. Then select if you want pre-infusion on or off. Press again to start pre-infusion (if enabled) or the normal extraction. It will run until you press the button again to stop. Thing I like here is all the timings will be saved. So if the shot was great you can instantly repeat those parameters exactly next time you press the button. If you always wanted to allow an extraction to run until you press the brew button to stop, just program an extraction time that's far too long say 50 seconds.
Marc
Nice modern machine. But the display.. Come on some old folks gone ask if a loupe comes with it.
Hi G, Thanks for the comment - I wear the specs and it's not bad at all!
Marc
나는 spx 사용중이다
move가 예쁘다 기능도 다양한거 같다
의견을 보내주셔서 감사합니다!
마크
uigyeon-eul bonaejusyeoseo gamsahabnida!
makeu
I like Profitec coffee machines, but this model has many shortcomings that make it difficult to use.
That breaks my heart.
The relay is not protected from water - it's absurd
Many wires are placed directly on the heating elements-there's no safety margin at all.
Hi K, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I've been inside most every prosumer level semi-auto machine available in North America over the past decade. The static relays mounted up high like they are in the Move are about as far away from water as I've seen. And, unlike some machines all internal moisture is routed to the drip tray. The wiring here is typical to what you see inside this type of machine. Not really exposed to heating elements as those are inside the boilers.
Marc
The temperature of boiler in 140C cannot burn wires insulation. Good insulation does not burn at all
plastic reservoir? we want glass reservoir
Hey lex, I introduce the ECM Puristika with external glass reservoir: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-puristika-single-boiler-espresso-machine?variant=43083787239478
Marc
$2k, ÷ 6.50 = 307 cups of coffee.... Honestly, BEFORE I got my first Espresso machine ($700/2016/still works) I still didn't buy THAT much coffee... Like it, just can't justify, being the only espresso person in the house..
I would _not have_ married my wife if she did _not_ drink coffee in the quantities that I do… ;-)
@@anotherguycalledsmith 🤣 Mine just drinks regular coffee, says my Esp/Cap/Lattes are too strong..
I drink that in 3-4 months haha oh my...
My wife drinks coffee now that I purchased a Profitec GO 😂 with home roasting and selling coffee to a friend, I’m almost making money!
$6.50 for a coffee? I thought Copenhagen was the home of outrageous coffee prices at €7.00. Here in Spain an espresso is €1.50😂😂