A factor that also may impact these results is that the people being surveyed are probably all familiar with this channel. Much of their espresso routine may be impacted by the information you've offered on this channel. If the survey also included a lot of people who are not tuned into this channel, I expect the results could be different.
Yep. Not even just this channel. Espresso-focused content creators have been on the rise over the past few years, and I think they've pretty uniformly encouraged 1:2 / 30 seconds as a starting place for dialing in flavor.
Very interesting. Dad is too busy washing and waxing his Nardo Grey Audi to teach his kids how to make espresso, but grandpa, who drives a twelve year old Corolla, is spending time with his grandchildren, teaching them the finer things in life.
What makes espresso taste good is a group of impatient strangers having to wait and listen while someone else makes all those crazy noises just for you.
I'm one who pulls a longer shot--usually a ~3:1 ratio of coffee output to grounds. You asked why? Largely it's because it gives me more coffee to enjoy! I use a Flair, so reloading it to make a full double shot is too much...and 2x the caffeine is too much for me--it'll give me palpitations! So I make a hearty lungo that I can sip on for a while. And I make a lot of Americanos and Cortados, so similarly it either stretches the volume of the drink more, OR I can play ratios and have a stronger 'coffee flavor' in my Americanos and Cortados by upping the espresso ratio in those drinks without sacrificing overall drink volume too much. Lungo is just an amazing way to enjoy coffee each morning. And the fact that it has a little less of a "bite" is nice too. I compare it to whisky. Neat is a good way to enjoy whisky, but I prefer to add a dash of chilled water to mellow it out! It brings out the flavors. And I think a lungo has more depth of flavor than the "wham-bam" flavor shock of a standard straight shot!
Zoomer espresso! What a lovely concept. As a data scientist and physicist I feel obligated to say that the "zoomer espresso" assessment of shorter shot times should absolutely be qualified by the number of entries. There is a very clear distinction in the resolution of the estimate that should be qualified to the viewer with a statement comparing average brew times between age groups with an uncertainty based on the statistical power of the dataset.
I have one of these, too. I love it and it makes a decent shot if you feed it with a decent capsule or decent coffee in the portafilter. Once in a while I then can enjoy a prof-made shot in a coffee-shop. An expensive espresso machine would be overkill for me.
Next time you should put in an option to talk about if the equipment is second hand. I have a gaggia classic and a mazzer super jolly and I've paid less than £300 for the whole set-up. If I were to put the retail value into your survey that would be over a grand! I've not personally spent that much but it's not as helpful if you're trying to deduce the kind of machine I'm using from that question.
I completely agree. What i paid for my setup was a fraction of what its retail cost was. I paid £343 for my Cimbali Junior D1, which retailed for about £3000. Completely skewing the data.
Homebrewer here: I just can't optimize for taste every single day. I make 2-3 double esspresso a day (17.5g - 25 sec). The coffee will I buy 250g and it will make me 14-15 coffees. But I do notice that after a couple of days my beans taste less tasty? I am not currently say my beans are 4 days old I need less (or more water) to make a same tasty shot. It's still way better then my old Nesspresso setup.
It definitely changes, if your recipe is based on when you first open it, you’re going to have to change it after a few days. You have to work harder to extract when they haven’t fully degassed, so my guess would be your recipe starts to over-extract once the beans have been rested for a few days (so try slightly increased grind size or slightly cooler water faster draw etc whatever your preference for dialing in is)
Lance is pushing longer shots pretty hard on his channel and I think his reasoning makes perfect sense. Yes, equipment is better now. But there is still subpar equipment out there, and coarser grounds extract way more evenly. Similarly, when you have equipment that is quite good, favorable extraction dynamics still play in your advantage even if you're losing body. I never drink anything at 1:2. Most shots in fact are more in the direction of 1:4 or 1:5 (and I lengthen that with fresh water afterwards still) and this just tastes so amazing that I never have the desire to go down
makes sense for median light and light roasts as you need more water flow to extract more but for really dark Italian style espresso that would be a terrible idea
My amateur setup: 1. Weigh beans 2. Grind them in my 1Zpresso hand grinder 3. Put the grounds in the portafilter using a funnel and clean the grinder 4. WDT the grounds, tamp, place a very thin metal mesh on top (mostly for cleanliness) 5. Put the portafilter in the machine and make espresso It's a pretty easy setup for a beginner and still makes great espresso. The biggest factors are grind size, even tamping and bean freshness. In that order of importance
Since I lost my job nearly 4 years ago, and have had a terrible time finding new work, I’ve spent a good amount of time getting into coffee. Though without work, my expense on things like a good grinder, scales, has been tough to justify. Use a scoop, flatten it out, get my water by volume, do what I need to do. I think I’ve had decent coffee this way, but I’d love to have a good scale and do it better. Gonna enter, wish me luck.
I'm one of the 12.5% that doesn't weigh "output" - that is because my spring lever produces a very consistent weight of output depending on the pressure at which I "stop" the shot (take the cup out).
As someone who's been making espresso for 2 or 3 years, atm, I weigh my coffee in, but not out, because my espresso cups are so small that I "know" how much is coming out. Aka I used to weigh the output, and not anymore, to make my life easier. If you use enough of the same coffee, if you find the right scoop, you could also do without weighing the coffee because you'd know closely enough how much you're putting in. Repeated enough, the human eye is very good at estimating these things.
you will be incorrect because the crema takes up volume and is different between beans and over time. 2 grams over or nder makes a big difference on taste. By weighing it you at least have an accurate benchmark for your recipe to taste.
My extraction has gone up over time purely by preference. I prefer the ritual of sitting and sipping my coffee to last a bit longer, but doing two cups is unreasonable because of price and probably health? I used to follow the standard recipes and I see myself in the data, but I do make some very long espressos more and more regularly. Sometimes 18 in 80 out. It's a different experience to the shorter 18/40, which is more taste oriented. The 18/80 is more of a moment, rather than a beverage. And honestly, it still tastes really good.
@10:30 Maybe I'm confused, but if we all have better equipment (i.e. extract more good flavour/dose) then we can pull a longer shot without loosing taste.
Wonderful video as always! If I remember correctly, on your survey there was an option for the grinder burr saying "I don't know" (Ignore this if I'm wrong). I suspect this could play a part in skewing the data as for people who have a cheaper grinder (myself included) may not be as aware of the kind of burr in it and therefore would would not be counted.
I used to make espresso when I had a single-serve home espresso machine. I loved it. But the single-serve machines were phased out and replaced by the ones you don’t have to fill every time. Trouble is, those require that you monitor the output and stop it manually when your drink is finished (at least the ones in my price range). This doesn’t work for me, because I’m generally doing a dozen or so things around the kitchen in the morning and waiting for my coffee to be brewed isn’t generally on the list. So until and unless I find a suitable machine at my local thrift store, I’m using a Moka pot for my morning brew.
I was hoping you would be using the average burr type, average grinder and espresso maker (based on average price range), but I guess that I’ll wait for your 2033 update.
I'd love to get an analysis including the coffee processing type as it would definitely have a impact on the taste profile and thus on the brewing method! For instance, I'm more and more enjoying natural processed coffee and I pull those shots longer than washed ones because of the acidity levels. That aside, thanks Mr. Hoffmann and team, that was highly interesting!
One week, a month I buy a fancy bag, and for that week I am a fancy man. (Alas, not half as fancy as James). I brew the same coffee the other 3 weeks out of 4. Love this video. I need this nerdery.
Now I'm more curious about the one North Korean participant. Someone from an embassy there? Some local at the very highest of leadership? So many questions!
As a home barista hobbyist, it takes a week or two to dial in a shot. I don't want to waste my coffee, and I only pull about one double shot in the morning. With that, the humidity changes, the bag gets older, etc, it's a pain, but worth it :)
I’d love to see a video that dives into a 'Guide to Coffee,' specifically covering different budget levels for building a complete coffee setup. For example, breaking it down into entry-level, mid-range, high-end, and premium setups-starting with the essentials like an espresso machine, grinder, and scales. It would be awesome if you could explain what to expect at each level and which upgrades make the most difference as you move up. It would be good to talk about what equipment you might see in the US vs the UK for the budgets. For the entry-level setup, you could talk about what’s achievable with a basic machine and grinder, and if someone’s looking to push their budget a bit, what’s the first piece of equipment they should upgrade (like maybe a better grinder or machine with PID control) and why it matters. Then, repeat this for mid-range and high-end setups, highlighting what you may expect to achieve as you move up in budget. It would also be cool to hear how different beans and roast levels pair with the equipment as you go up in budget if such an item exists. For instance, how entry-level machines might be better suited to medium-dark roasts and how higher-end setups can handle more complex or light roasts. Additionally you done a Tom Scott video of how to find a coffee that works for him, it would be great to incorproate that, or even split that out and how we can maximise our taste profile and thus enjoyment for coffee.
One reason I moved to 18g in to 40g out shots is that my wife and both have single-shot piccolo lattes in the evening. We don’t want to have a double shot each then - messes with our sleep. The slightly longer pull helps that drink last just a couple of sips longer.
Tail end boomer (60) and I can definitely say James and the other TH-cam espresso content creators have taught me everything I know and influenced my baseline expectations for my shots. Since I enjoy milk based drinks, I admit to concentrating on beautiful shots from a bottomless portafilter more than taste since the milk masks a multitude of sins.
I think your comment on longer shots being ‘in fashion’ could be onto something. Your vid you made years ago about David Schomer’s pretty espresso shots I do think harkens to some of those classically beautiful coffee shop looks that home baristas would like to emulate (plus the general nostalgia aesthetic photos/tiktoks home coffee culture makes). Cause no matter how good a tiny light roast shot tastes, there’s nothing as pretty as those fatter pulled med/darker roasted shots.
A lot of lesser-expensive flat burr grinders have come onto the market in the last couple years as well, so that might be why flat burr grinders are more present in your data than you expect. I have the DF64v2, for example, which is a 64mm flat burr grinder, and I was able to get it for around 400 USD in January. I'm probably also an outlier in how I dose and prep. I go by basket volume, not weight. A little north of 17g gives what I need to pull this off, but the final puck weight is a little less than that. And for puck prep I use WDT to de-clump and distribute before leveling out with the backside of a butterknife (the "Chicago chop" without the chopping) before tamping. And I also don't weigh the output every time.
Very interesting to see the data on this. One question missed is how we have been influenced in our timing and weights of shots. No doubt, you (and others) have had significant influence in brewing practices. The tapering off in expenditures at mid-life likely has a connection to the quality of equipment one can afford 20+ years into their work life. I now own an espresso machine that will outlive me. The grinder should last a decade or more too. I don’t enjoy coffee out as much anymore because I now make a better cup at home.
Once I found turbo shots I just never went back, 13g in 40g out, pulled in 20 seconds, clarity, acidity, very light body on Single origin medium light roasts. I just like them, they are more consistent, in that I don’t ever dial in things, I start in the same place as yesterday and adjust slightly throughout the day based on bean and weather. I stretch my bag of beans much further at 13g in as well, also lets me have that 3rd cup of coffee in the day with little regret or affects from too much caffeine bc I effectively halved my caffeine intake from years prior when doing 2:1. The most excellent 2:1 is hard to beat but it’s also feels like a rare thing, something is always slightly off, I never feel that way about a turbo shot, especially if I then turn it into an americano. I’m in the US, I have 10 years of coffee experience 2 of those as a professional. Now at home I want easy, tasty, and low effort, but I still want espresso, so turbo shot is what works for me!
I use same dark roast coffee bean as my morning brew. I dialed in my grinder and machine for a single shot portafilter (16g) and used time as the variable until I liked the final shot. My grinder has timer, so set to give 16 grams, the resultant desired pull time above translates into a fixed volume in my expresso cup. That's it, pull same good shot almost every time. My tamp is firm and the machine ramps to 9 bars, creame is perfect.
For the next survey, I am curious to add some questions regarding coffee bean purchasing trends. Big box stores vs small roasters vs home roasting. Maybe some questions regarding roast dates. The ridiculous flavor notes on some the coffee bags.
My reasoning for pulling longer shots: Equipment: Breville Bambino Plus, Breville Smart Grinder Pro My wife and I both use our espresso machine and my wife will absolutely not pull out a scale to measure the yield, especially in the morning before work. My compromise for taste and convenience has been to dial in based on the yield of the double shot button on my breville which yields about 47 grams, a 1:2.5 ratio at 17g.
What an amazing level of research you are doing, hat's off and thanks for all the hard work! And to the rest of the research team also, including all 40k participants! Well done and very neatly presented, too!
For me the coffee roast level is mostly due to availability. I try to stick to local roasters and none of them offer Light roast, and I live in a place I would say has a higher than normal concentration of local roasters (Victoria Canada)
A single response from North Korea is both odd (I would expect more people to have fun with it) and surprising. But it asks the question of what is the quintessential NKespresso ? What does that walled -garden- country look like ?
I think the way people buy coffee plays into how people brew. Many people start with subscription services like Trade, and are sent a completely different bag of coffee every time so they’re constantly dialling in. They dont experiment much past that as they’re getting a new variety next time anyway and will probably never get the same bag again unless they struck gold first time. As experience grows and you figure out what you like, you tend to narrow your preferences and maybe order the same bag from the same roaster every week. theres less fussing about and you can really spend the time to get the most out of that specific variety of coffee you buy.
I for sure thought doing a 2:1 22g shot was normal 😅 I'll have to keep an eye out for a 54mm 18g basket. They're a bit harder to find for a reasonable price in my experiences. Shipping ends up being just as much as the basket cost
I was so excited for this video!! It was so insightful! Absolutely loved it! Fingers crossed for the scale giveaway as well! I’m hoping that having a proper espresso scale instead of a kitchen skill will help me pull my shots a bit better 😅
I think it would be interesting to know how the espresso being pulled is being consumed ie as a straight shot vs some milk drink. From my experience I tend to be less exact with the espresso because I know what ever "blemishes" that might arise from a less than perfect extraction are compensated or masked by the frothy milk I add. Like wearing a bike helmet apparently increases your "risk compensation".
Oh how fun it would be to present all that data in an interactive dashboard. Imagine being able to slice and dice for all parameters regarding demographics, tools and the rest and see all the charts update. The BI developer in me is crying, when I hear the option to see all the charts in a flat pdf 😢
I wonder if longer shots are more popular because (I assume) more "new" people have entered the hobby of espresso making (me being one of them). A longer shot, in my experience, is harder to mess up. I usually only have time to make one shot and so I would rather go long and have an acceptable shot
On Reddit you can see the number focused recipe trend. People celebrating hitting the 18/36 in 30 sec “perfect shot” it is quite understandable as baking recipes are about the numbers.
Hi James! Any chance you can get the analysts to run a Age-Period-Cohort analysis that decomposes the effects of age (their current age), period (the time that the survey is taken), and cohort (when the respondents are born) effects? I am not an expert on this and with only two periods it might be difficult to do. If that is the case, I would love to see such analysis on the next wave of the survey several years into the future!
I think there's a gap in this data between hand grinding and power grinding. It seems to me that hand grinders have a large variance in quality but don't have as much variance in price. This means that we cannot distinguish quality of grind from ratios or age as the presentation of money spent vs. age might suggest. I would predict that many of the younger groups have hand grinders. I would hypothesize that this could be leading to the larger variance in ratios and extraction times.
Very interesting survey. One piece of information that would be interesting to me is how each person learned to make espresso. Did the Boomers teach the under 18 age group. Did the people learn from TH-cam? This type of influence no doubt will show in how each person begins and possibly continues in their espresso journey. Keep up the great work.
James I would like to see how many people hand grind vs using electric grinders and see some data analysis split by the type of grinder. Thanks for doing this! Hope it becomes an annual survey!
My wife does. No one else I know who does home espresso does singles. So this anecdotally tracks for me. Singles really are more difficult to make, however.
@@Ash_Wen-li UK too. My family is an oddity, as we mostly drink single shots - either brewing directly a single, or using a splitter spout to make two singles out of a double dose, Italian style.
what may happen is that people program their shots with a scale and then afterwards use the program from their machine. maybe they feel like that means that on average they don't weigh their shot. or the people with fancy machines that can be programmed to dose out a specific volume?
I wonder if those who aren't weighing their inputs and outputs are professional baristas who have their doses measured by some level of automation, and the outputs determined by volumetric pump measurements?
I thought I was about the only person in the world who eyeballs their shot volume, I've gotten very good at it and I'm too stubborn to spend the money for a scale
Having a results between type of machine (pump, lever, etc) and ratio will be interesting. Also separating the analysis between milk base and non-milk base will be useful.
I wonder if the shorter brew times for professionals are due to a commercial setting? Trying to get customers their coffee as quickly as possible to have high turnover, so professionals dial it in in ways to make it taste good but be quick. Home baristas are probably more willing to wait a "hard" 30 seconds for their shot because they're not in a hurry?
Great work James. Some comments and lots of ideas, but ultimately I just want to know when can we expect a scientific paper on this study, or any of your studies, as these would be great scientific publication material!
Love your videos. In fact, today for the first time I learned what exactly is a ristretto shot. Starbucks uses double ristretto.. and I kinda love it. Will try at home next 😊
How exactly did you clean your data in the end? As I understood in the video you just said that you did clean the data but not how. Imo that's important to note, especially since you too noted how it effects the data. Or did it just came down to "some answers didn't make any sense", e.g. 69 seconds extraction time with 420 g of coffee?
Only 2 points: First the increase in output is purely based on trend in the belief that more water flow equals hire extraction and this has been preached to death on TH-cam so people have just learned this and well known You tubers always do this like Lance Hendrick so people follow what he does. Second brew time is a confusing statistic because people have pre infusion times as opposed to on and off and its unknown if these pre infusion times are added to the time the main brew time period. Such a cool video !
Boy oh boy! I am one of those 184 youngsters, and the times I have been to coffee festivals - they are surprised as much as you are, James!
Hey me too 👊
Hi fellow kids
eyy im also one of them
A factor that also may impact these results is that the people being surveyed are probably all familiar with this channel. Much of their espresso routine may be impacted by the information you've offered on this channel. If the survey also included a lot of people who are not tuned into this channel, I expect the results could be different.
Agreed - thanks to James' videos, I changed out both brewer and grinder.
I completely agree. Everything I know about brewing espresso I learned from James. I suspect this is true for many of us.
Yep. Not even just this channel. Espresso-focused content creators have been on the rise over the past few years, and I think they've pretty uniformly encouraged 1:2 / 30 seconds as a starting place for dialing in flavor.
This was my instant thought as well. This isn't 30k espresso makers, this is 30k espresso makers who value James' opinion.
Very interesting. Dad is too busy washing and waxing his Nardo Grey Audi to teach his kids how to make espresso, but grandpa, who drives a twelve year old Corolla, is spending time with his grandchildren, teaching them the finer things in life.
What makes espresso taste good is a group of impatient strangers having to wait and listen while someone else makes all those crazy noises just for you.
Kakopia 😂
Hey! I’m in this video! (At least 0.0025% of it)
That percentage seemed a bit high. 😂
@@9jang True it’s only napkin maths ahah
(1/39425)*100 = 0.002536461636018
Are you the North Korean?
@@dogjennings1171 👀🚀
Same!
I'd love to see how Kim Jong Un says he prefers his espresso
Aw. You beat me to the joke 😂
First, you’d have to look at which espresso machines were popular in the 1950s.
decaffed
He's the Unicorn Frappuccino kind of guy
made with a very restrictive portafilter and stirred with a firm hand
Any chance of an updated budget espresso setup video?
That would be a dream. I want to upgrade but I know I’ll still have to settle for some budget choices.
What is the price range of budget?
My boy is popular with Kim Jong Un
It's just a VPN user.
I'm one who pulls a longer shot--usually a ~3:1 ratio of coffee output to grounds. You asked why? Largely it's because it gives me more coffee to enjoy! I use a Flair, so reloading it to make a full double shot is too much...and 2x the caffeine is too much for me--it'll give me palpitations! So I make a hearty lungo that I can sip on for a while. And I make a lot of Americanos and Cortados, so similarly it either stretches the volume of the drink more, OR I can play ratios and have a stronger 'coffee flavor' in my Americanos and Cortados by upping the espresso ratio in those drinks without sacrificing overall drink volume too much.
Lungo is just an amazing way to enjoy coffee each morning. And the fact that it has a little less of a "bite" is nice too. I compare it to whisky. Neat is a good way to enjoy whisky, but I prefer to add a dash of chilled water to mellow it out! It brings out the flavors. And I think a lungo has more depth of flavor than the "wham-bam" flavor shock of a standard straight shot!
Zoomer espresso! What a lovely concept. As a data scientist and physicist I feel obligated to say that the "zoomer espresso" assessment of shorter shot times should absolutely be qualified by the number of entries. There is a very clear distinction in the resolution of the estimate that should be qualified to the viewer with a statement comparing average brew times between age groups with an uncertainty based on the statistical power of the dataset.
I use a £39.99 Aldi Nespresso machine (hangs head in shame)
No shame. Only joy if it makes coffee you find tasty!
It's half decent honestly, better than quite a few machines out there
I have one of these, too. I love it and it makes a decent shot if you feed it with a decent capsule or decent coffee in the portafilter.
Once in a while I then can enjoy a prof-made shot in a coffee-shop. An expensive espresso machine would be overkill for me.
There should be absolutely no shame in using an affordable machine.
No shame! If you like the coffee you make, that's good coffee for you.
Next time you should put in an option to talk about if the equipment is second hand. I have a gaggia classic and a mazzer super jolly and I've paid less than £300 for the whole set-up. If I were to put the retail value into your survey that would be over a grand! I've not personally spent that much but it's not as helpful if you're trying to deduce the kind of machine I'm using from that question.
I completely agree. What i paid for my setup was a fraction of what its retail cost was. I paid £343 for my Cimbali Junior D1, which retailed for about £3000. Completely skewing the data.
At my age, 57, my kids are grown and i can now use my disposable income on better equipment.
ALSO. My generation was raised on diner coffee.
Homebrewer here: I just can't optimize for taste every single day. I make 2-3 double esspresso a day (17.5g - 25 sec). The coffee will I buy 250g and it will make me 14-15 coffees. But I do notice that after a couple of days my beans taste less tasty? I am not currently say my beans are 4 days old I need less (or more water) to make a same tasty shot. It's still way better then my old Nesspresso setup.
It definitely changes, if your recipe is based on when you first open it, you’re going to have to change it after a few days. You have to work harder to extract when they haven’t fully degassed, so my guess would be your recipe starts to over-extract once the beans have been rested for a few days (so try slightly increased grind size or slightly cooler water faster draw etc whatever your preference for dialing in is)
keep your beans in the freezer overnight as they are oxidising too quickly
Would love to see this for pour over coffee too🙏
Lance is pushing longer shots pretty hard on his channel and I think his reasoning makes perfect sense. Yes, equipment is better now. But there is still subpar equipment out there, and coarser grounds extract way more evenly. Similarly, when you have equipment that is quite good, favorable extraction dynamics still play in your advantage even if you're losing body. I never drink anything at 1:2. Most shots in fact are more in the direction of 1:4 or 1:5 (and I lengthen that with fresh water afterwards still) and this just tastes so amazing that I never have the desire to go down
makes sense for median light and light roasts as you need more water flow to extract more but for really dark Italian style espresso that would be a terrible idea
That one voter from North Korea, now running for his life.
Oohhh any plans to release an anonymised data set? 😊
My amateur setup:
1. Weigh beans
2. Grind them in my 1Zpresso hand grinder
3. Put the grounds in the portafilter using a funnel and clean the grinder
4. WDT the grounds, tamp, place a very thin metal mesh on top (mostly for cleanliness)
5. Put the portafilter in the machine and make espresso
It's a pretty easy setup for a beginner and still makes great espresso. The biggest factors are grind size, even tamping and bean freshness. In that order of importance
This is hobbyist espresso, albeit admittedly amateur if you use James Hoffmann as your comparison point.
Who'd ever use Hoffmann as a "comparison point"?
@@alarik95I'd say the only unnecessary step is the WDT. Grinding and weighing beans is pretty essential for espresso
1z presso gang rise up
You're literally me
Since I lost my job nearly 4 years ago, and have had a terrible time finding new work, I’ve spent a good amount of time getting into coffee. Though without work, my expense on things like a good grinder, scales, has been tough to justify. Use a scoop, flatten it out, get my water by volume, do what I need to do. I think I’ve had decent coffee this way, but I’d love to have a good scale and do it better. Gonna enter, wish me luck.
I participated, but I've gotten all of my info from TH-cam, which pushes 18/36 in 24-30secs pretty hard
Zoomer espresso, two words I can't believe were put together and it made sense.
Skibiddy
two words that basically mean “hyper coffee”, yeah who could believe those would work together haha.
13:02 Back then you might have argued they have... Better grinders, better machines, papa espresso.
underrated comment 🤣
only this channel could have the amount of reach to get this amazing sample size
I'm one of the 12.5% that doesn't weigh "output" - that is because my spring lever produces a very consistent weight of output depending on the pressure at which I "stop" the shot (take the cup out).
As someone who's been making espresso for 2 or 3 years, atm, I weigh my coffee in, but not out, because my espresso cups are so small that I "know" how much is coming out. Aka I used to weigh the output, and not anymore, to make my life easier. If you use enough of the same coffee, if you find the right scoop, you could also do without weighing the coffee because you'd know closely enough how much you're putting in. Repeated enough, the human eye is very good at estimating these things.
you will be incorrect because the crema takes up volume and is different between beans and over time. 2 grams over or nder makes a big difference on taste. By weighing it you at least have an accurate benchmark for your recipe to taste.
can you share a copy of the data after anonymisation? am a data nerd and would love to play with it.
My extraction has gone up over time purely by preference. I prefer the ritual of sitting and sipping my coffee to last a bit longer, but doing two cups is unreasonable because of price and probably health?
I used to follow the standard recipes and I see myself in the data, but I do make some very long espressos more and more regularly. Sometimes 18 in 80 out. It's a different experience to the shorter 18/40, which is more taste oriented. The 18/80 is more of a moment, rather than a beverage. And honestly, it still tastes really good.
Coffee industry gonna cash in on free marketing data.
@10:30 Maybe I'm confused, but if we all have better equipment (i.e. extract more good flavour/dose) then we can pull a longer shot without loosing taste.
I love the data and analysis. Was that Red Brick that you used for the average espresso? That's my daily blend.
Wonderful video as always! If I remember correctly, on your survey there was an option for the grinder burr saying "I don't know" (Ignore this if I'm wrong). I suspect this could play a part in skewing the data as for people who have a cheaper grinder (myself included) may not be as aware of the kind of burr in it and therefore would would not be counted.
I used to make espresso when I had a single-serve home espresso machine. I loved it. But the single-serve machines were phased out and replaced by the ones you don’t have to fill every time. Trouble is, those require that you monitor the output and stop it manually when your drink is finished (at least the ones in my price range). This doesn’t work for me, because I’m generally doing a dozen or so things around the kitchen in the morning and waiting for my coffee to be brewed isn’t generally on the list. So until and unless I find a suitable machine at my local thrift store, I’m using a Moka pot for my morning brew.
I was hoping you would be using the average burr type, average grinder and espresso maker (based on average price range), but I guess that I’ll wait for your 2033 update.
Great to see the results James, very interesting. Glad to have participated in this survey.
Only 16% under $200 on a grinder? I can guarantee this survey is comprised of the most enthusiasts
I'd love to get an analysis including the coffee processing type as it would definitely have a impact on the taste profile and thus on the brewing method! For instance, I'm more and more enjoying natural processed coffee and I pull those shots longer than washed ones because of the acidity levels.
That aside, thanks Mr. Hoffmann and team, that was highly interesting!
On the spot ! Beans processing does make a world of difference. I mostly stay away from washed and I have now settled happily at a 2.3 brewing ratio.
One week, a month I buy a fancy bag, and for that week I am a fancy man. (Alas, not half as fancy as James). I brew the same coffee the other 3 weeks out of 4.
Love this video. I need this nerdery.
Now I'm more curious about the one North Korean participant.
Someone from an embassy there? Some local at the very highest of leadership?
So many questions!
As a home barista hobbyist, it takes a week or two to dial in a shot. I don't want to waste my coffee, and I only pull about one double shot in the morning. With that, the humidity changes, the bag gets older, etc, it's a pain, but worth it :)
I’d love to see a video that dives into a 'Guide to Coffee,' specifically covering different budget levels for building a complete coffee setup. For example, breaking it down into entry-level, mid-range, high-end, and premium setups-starting with the essentials like an espresso machine, grinder, and scales. It would be awesome if you could explain what to expect at each level and which upgrades make the most difference as you move up. It would be good to talk about what equipment you might see in the US vs the UK for the budgets.
For the entry-level setup, you could talk about what’s achievable with a basic machine and grinder, and if someone’s looking to push their budget a bit, what’s the first piece of equipment they should upgrade (like maybe a better grinder or machine with PID control) and why it matters. Then, repeat this for mid-range and high-end setups, highlighting what you may expect to achieve as you move up in budget.
It would also be cool to hear how different beans and roast levels pair with the equipment as you go up in budget if such an item exists. For instance, how entry-level machines might be better suited to medium-dark roasts and how higher-end setups can handle more complex or light roasts. Additionally you done a Tom Scott video of how to find a coffee that works for him, it would be great to incorproate that, or even split that out and how we can maximise our taste profile and thus enjoyment for coffee.
One reason I moved to 18g in to 40g out shots is that my wife and both have single-shot piccolo lattes in the evening.
We don’t want to have a double shot each then - messes with our sleep.
The slightly longer pull helps that drink last just a couple of sips longer.
Tail end boomer (60) and I can definitely say James and the other TH-cam espresso content creators have taught me everything I know and influenced my baseline expectations for my shots. Since I enjoy milk based drinks, I admit to concentrating on beautiful shots from a bottomless portafilter more than taste since the milk masks a multitude of sins.
Longer shots 100% due to current popularity and availability of flow control devices.
Hmmm…. Would be interesting to have that information in the poll, i guess its only a tiny fraction that have flow control
Imagine drinking coffee in 2024
....
....
Yum ☕
I think your comment on longer shots being ‘in fashion’ could be onto something.
Your vid you made years ago about David Schomer’s pretty espresso shots I do think harkens to some of those classically beautiful coffee shop looks that home baristas would like to emulate (plus the general nostalgia aesthetic photos/tiktoks home coffee culture makes).
Cause no matter how good a tiny light roast shot tastes, there’s nothing as pretty as those fatter pulled med/darker roasted shots.
A lot of lesser-expensive flat burr grinders have come onto the market in the last couple years as well, so that might be why flat burr grinders are more present in your data than you expect. I have the DF64v2, for example, which is a 64mm flat burr grinder, and I was able to get it for around 400 USD in January.
I'm probably also an outlier in how I dose and prep. I go by basket volume, not weight. A little north of 17g gives what I need to pull this off, but the final puck weight is a little less than that. And for puck prep I use WDT to de-clump and distribute before leveling out with the backside of a butterknife (the "Chicago chop" without the chopping) before tamping. And I also don't weigh the output every time.
Very interesting to see the data on this. One question missed is how we have been influenced in our timing and weights of shots. No doubt, you (and others) have had significant influence in brewing practices.
The tapering off in expenditures at mid-life likely has a connection to the quality of equipment one can afford 20+ years into their work life. I now own an espresso machine that will outlive me. The grinder should last a decade or more too. I don’t enjoy coffee out as much anymore because I now make a better cup at home.
I don't weigh my espresso, the scales I have simply don't fit under the espresso machine I have 😅
Once I found turbo shots I just never went back, 13g in 40g out, pulled in 20 seconds, clarity, acidity, very light body on Single origin medium light roasts.
I just like them, they are more consistent, in that I don’t ever dial in things, I start in the same place as yesterday and adjust slightly throughout the day based on bean and weather. I stretch my bag of beans much further at 13g in as well, also lets me have that 3rd cup of coffee in the day with little regret or affects from too much caffeine bc I effectively halved my caffeine intake from years prior when doing 2:1.
The most excellent 2:1 is hard to beat but it’s also feels like a rare thing, something is always slightly off, I never feel that way about a turbo shot, especially if I then turn it into an americano.
I’m in the US, I have 10 years of coffee experience 2 of those as a professional. Now at home I want easy, tasty, and low effort, but I still want espresso, so turbo shot is what works for me!
I use same dark roast coffee bean as my morning brew. I dialed in my grinder and machine for a single shot portafilter (16g) and used time as the variable until I liked the final shot.
My grinder has timer, so set to give 16 grams, the resultant desired pull time above translates into a fixed volume in my expresso cup. That's it, pull same good shot almost every time. My tamp is firm and the machine ramps to 9 bars, creame is perfect.
For the next survey, I am curious to add some questions regarding coffee bean purchasing trends. Big box stores vs small roasters vs home roasting. Maybe some questions regarding roast dates. The ridiculous flavor notes on some the coffee bags.
My reasoning for pulling longer shots:
Equipment: Breville Bambino Plus, Breville Smart Grinder Pro
My wife and I both use our espresso machine and my wife will absolutely not pull out a scale to measure the yield, especially in the morning before work. My compromise for taste and convenience has been to dial in based on the yield of the double shot button on my breville which yields about 47 grams, a 1:2.5 ratio at 17g.
What an amazing level of research you are doing, hat's off and thanks for all the hard work! And to the rest of the research team also, including all 40k participants! Well done and very neatly presented, too!
For me the coffee roast level is mostly due to availability. I try to stick to local roasters and none of them offer Light roast, and I live in a place I would say has a higher than normal concentration of local roasters (Victoria Canada)
A single response from North Korea is both odd (I would expect more people to have fun with it) and surprising.
But it asks the question of what is the quintessential NKespresso ? What does that walled -garden- country look like ?
It was just a VPN. North Korea doesn't really have Internet
I think the way people buy coffee plays into how people brew. Many people start with subscription services like Trade, and are sent a completely different bag of coffee every time so they’re constantly dialling in. They dont experiment much past that as they’re getting a new variety next time anyway and will probably never get the same bag again unless they struck gold first time. As experience grows and you figure out what you like, you tend to narrow your preferences and maybe order the same bag from the same roaster every week. theres less fussing about and you can really spend the time to get the most out of that specific variety of coffee you buy.
1:33 Hames Joffmann strikes again
I'm looking forward to seeing what Hames makes of the boomer/zoomer bits.
Comparing a study with roughly 1,600 to 32,000. Well done James
James, have you thought about doing a filter/pour over survey too.
I for sure thought doing a 2:1 22g shot was normal 😅 I'll have to keep an eye out for a 54mm 18g basket. They're a bit harder to find for a reasonable price in my experiences. Shipping ends up being just as much as the basket cost
Excellent topic, James.
Interesting findings. I now want to start measuring everything
I was so excited for this video!! It was so insightful! Absolutely loved it! Fingers crossed for the scale giveaway as well! I’m hoping that having a proper espresso scale instead of a kitchen skill will help me pull my shots a bit better 😅
Thanks for the video as always! Will you be doing something similar for filter/immersion brews?
Might be interesting to see what time of day the most shots are being consumed.
I think it would be interesting to know how the espresso being pulled is being consumed ie as a straight shot vs some milk drink. From my experience I tend to be less exact with the espresso because I know what ever "blemishes" that might arise from a less than perfect extraction are compensated or masked by the frothy milk I add. Like wearing a bike helmet apparently increases your "risk compensation".
This was really cool, I would love a similar study for filter coffee!
Drinking espresso now
Im more sad that I couldnt contribute to this survey. Amazing video, loved every minute of it!
17:00 what kind of graph is this, surprisingly I've never seen that before
It's a box and whisker plot
him drinking the espresso shot he brewed and giving it a review is so hilarious for some reason.
I'd love to see a survey about other methods of brewing and how people approach that
Oh how fun it would be to present all that data in an interactive dashboard. Imagine being able to slice and dice for all parameters regarding demographics, tools and the rest and see all the charts update.
The BI developer in me is crying, when I hear the option to see all the charts in a flat pdf 😢
Curious to see something similar for V60 recipes.
I wonder if longer shots are more popular because (I assume) more "new" people have entered the hobby of espresso making (me being one of them). A longer shot, in my experience, is harder to mess up. I usually only have time to make one shot and so I would rather go long and have an acceptable shot
Be prepared for the Zoomer Espresso Memes
On Reddit you can see the number focused recipe trend. People celebrating hitting the 18/36 in 30 sec “perfect shot” it is quite understandable as baking recipes are about the numbers.
Please do it frequently. Maybe no one was asking but many of us needed it :D Appreciate a lot!
This makes me want to run the numbers through SPSS to find interesting crosstab overlaps.
Hi James! Any chance you can get the analysts to run a Age-Period-Cohort analysis that decomposes the effects of age (their current age), period (the time that the survey is taken), and cohort (when the respondents are born) effects? I am not an expert on this and with only two periods it might be difficult to do. If that is the case, I would love to see such analysis on the next wave of the survey several years into the future!
I think there's a gap in this data between hand grinding and power grinding. It seems to me that hand grinders have a large variance in quality but don't have as much variance in price. This means that we cannot distinguish quality of grind from ratios or age as the presentation of money spent vs. age might suggest. I would predict that many of the younger groups have hand grinders. I would hypothesize that this could be leading to the larger variance in ratios and extraction times.
Very interesting survey. One piece of information that would be interesting to me is how each person learned to make espresso. Did the Boomers teach the under 18 age group. Did the people learn from TH-cam? This type of influence no doubt will show in how each person begins and possibly continues in their espresso journey. Keep up the great work.
The only thing that I could think of that you may want to add, is there a difference between how ppl who drink espresso vs milk based espresso drinks?
Longer shots are easier to dial in perhaps.
This could be an annual survey that you publish each year creating a record over time
James I would like to see how many people hand grind vs using electric grinders and see some data analysis split by the type of grinder. Thanks for doing this! Hope it becomes an annual survey!
On longer shots with better extraction: when I like the taste and can extract better then I can create more coffe drink on the same dose in...
I'm surprised that almost nobody drinks single-shot espressos, or was the study specifically about double-shots?
I think in North America at least (Don't know about the UK) double shots are pretty much the standard
My wife does. No one else I know who does home espresso does singles. So this anecdotally tracks for me. Singles really are more difficult to make, however.
@@Ash_Wen-li UK too. My family is an oddity, as we mostly drink single shots - either brewing directly a single, or using a splitter spout to make two singles out of a double dose, Italian style.
what may happen is that people program their shots with a scale and then afterwards use the program from their machine. maybe they feel like that means that on average they don't weigh their shot. or the people with fancy machines that can be programmed to dose out a specific volume?
I wonder if those who aren't weighing their inputs and outputs are professional baristas who have their doses measured by some level of automation, and the outputs determined by volumetric pump measurements?
I thought I was about the only person in the world who eyeballs their shot volume, I've gotten very good at it and I'm too stubborn to spend the money for a scale
Having a results between type of machine (pump, lever, etc) and ratio will be interesting. Also separating the analysis between milk base and non-milk base will be useful.
I wonder if the shorter brew times for professionals are due to a commercial setting? Trying to get customers their coffee as quickly as possible to have high turnover, so professionals dial it in in ways to make it taste good but be quick. Home baristas are probably more willing to wait a "hard" 30 seconds for their shot because they're not in a hurry?
Great work James. Some comments and lots of ideas, but ultimately I just want to know when can we expect a scientific paper on this study, or any of your studies, as these would be great scientific publication material!
Your survey didn't include people who use single shot baskets! I use 12g in and 24g out daily.
Love your videos. In fact, today for the first time I learned what exactly is a ristretto shot. Starbucks uses double ristretto.. and I kinda love it. Will try at home next 😊
The heatmap tells me home baristas just don't dial in.
How exactly did you clean your data in the end? As I understood in the video you just said that you did clean the data but not how. Imo that's important to note, especially since you too noted how it effects the data.
Or did it just came down to "some answers didn't make any sense", e.g. 69 seconds extraction time with 420 g of coffee?
Only 2 points: First the increase in output is purely based on trend in the belief that more water flow equals hire extraction and this has been preached to death on TH-cam so people have just learned this and well known You tubers always do this like Lance Hendrick so people follow what he does. Second brew time is a confusing statistic because people have pre infusion times as opposed to on and off and its unknown if these pre infusion times are added to the time the main brew time period. Such a cool video !