Why Cylinder Deactivation Can Cause Engine Failure
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- Here’s an in-depth look at how cylinder deactivation works and how it can potentially harm your car’s engine.
Cylinder deactivation is the process of turning off some cylinders on your car’s engine to save fuel and reduce emissions. It typically engages when the power of all cylinders are not required, such as when cruising or decelerating. In this video, we tear down a Honda J-series V6 engine with variable cylinder management (VCM) technology to see how the engine is able to turn off those cylinders and stop the intake and exhaust valves from moving using just oil pressure.
During VCM activation, oil pressure is sent from the head through a control solenoid that allows oil to flow through the rocker arm shafts. The oil pressure is received by the rocker arm, which activates a small piston to push against the spring loaded piston that holds the rocker arm assemblies together. This disengages the rocker arms that glide on the camshaft lobes with the ones that are connected to the valve springs - with return springs causing them to stay put. The result is the valves remain closed while the deactivated pistons are drawn up and down in the combustion chamber through the crankshaft which its connected to.
Typical problems with this system include oil being drawn into the vacuum in the combustion chamber caused by having the valves closed, fouling the spark plugs. Piston rings also wear (and may also align) causing oil to be consumed at a very rapid rate. The result is a lack of lubrication, worn rings and cylinder misfires. VCM turns off three of the cylinders which transmit vibrations through active engine mounts meant to dampen vibrations. These mounts eventually wear out causing vibration and noise to enter the cabin when the ECO light is on. Some Honda and Acura V6 owners have resorted to installing a resistor in the coolant temperature circuit (known as VCM Muzzler) to fool the computer into thinking it is not yet at full temperature and not engage VCM to avoid this issue.
The engine in this video was out of a 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid V6.
Engine tear-downs and rebuilds can be done with common hand tools that can be purchased here:
Impact Wrench:
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Engine hoist
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Impact sockets:
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Breaker bar:
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Angled needle nose pliers:
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Skip to section in the video:
0:00 Introduction
0:55 Teardown
3:21 How VCM Works
11:38 Problems Caused by Cylinder Deactivation
15:34 Final Thoughts
This is the Camera I use:
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GM's efficiency tech is to shut down cylinders until the tow truck is doing all the work.
Nice! 😂👊👉
Lol
😂
LOL
💀
You're like a well-educated tour guide showing us everything about the engine. Cool.
More to come thanks
The feature deactivates cylinders... for good. ;)
Great video as always!!
Thanks
Wait what? Did not expect to see you here, Plainly Difficult! Love your channel!
Colliding interests yay
Wait, wtf are you doing here m8. 😂
@@colchronic Im everywhere!
Imagine what he could do in a heated garage. Brass balls, our man here.
A great explanation and demonstration about VCM. Don't forget the age old problem of thermal difference on the deactivated cylinders. Something that plagued the Cady V8-6-4 and all others that attempt to switch off cylinders. You can't fool physics.
The VCM on my 2019 Ridgeline was disabled very early on using more of a "smart" manipulation of the temperature feedback. Normal "pass through" at low and overtemp situations, but not allowing normal VCM temps to be reported. It also varies the output just enough to prevent a "flat line" record if anyone looks at the logs.
My model version also has direct injection only which compounds the carbon situation by not having any valve washing.
These engines have injector issues, carbon build up issues, motor mount issues, and now rod bearing issues (recall) which BTW are on the rear bank. The body is also prone to water leaks. IMHO Hondas are not the quality they once were.
As the complexity of cars increases it seems the tech skill level is simultaneously (generally speaking) decreasing. This creates a real double-whammy problem for the consumer.
Maybe I need something carbureted with points and a 4 speed? 😄
Seriously
Agreed. Been wishing occasionally that I still had a much simpler and yet way less fuel efficient vehicle… I really just want sh** that works and isn’t designed to fail, via EPA and other regulations by the government. They’ve had tech to make internal combustion engines way more efficient for DECADES and only recently instituted it when it’s no longer as fashionable or profitable to the oil and gasoline companies to not allow it to be used… and the powers that be know what’s they’re doing all the time.
But they can’t drive us all the “unneeded” people into oblivion if they don’t take over EVERYTHING we need to survive and ruin it and make us (they think) completely dependent on them/ their governments.
Makes me even more glad to know this world is not my home, by God’s grace through Christ alone!
Thank you, you're 100% factually correct with this. I'll go with Sienna instead of the Odyssey's V6 VCM.
This is a GREAT comment!
You speak fast and clearly, in addition, you cover a lot of information in a short period of time. Very impressive.
That engine was in pretty decent shape, you make this look so easy.another great engine tear down.
Whoa whoa... your brother was probably still using that toothbrush!
=))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
That's nothing, what till his old lady finds out that's he's been using her bra's to hold the brake calipers up when changing pads & rotor's 🤕
Amd his pants and whole bunch of other clothes. Lol
Rofl
I have a Ridgeline and I've been trying to understand the VCM problem and to decide rather to install one of those VCM killer doo-hickies. This video is BY FAR the best explanation out of the 10 or 15 vids I've watched. Thanks!
You totally do an amazing job explaining how each different engine works. Hands down, your vids are the best 👍
EXCELLENT VIDEO!
I could see exactly how this system works and why there could be problems related to this system in the engine.
I really like the short cuts when disassembling the engine. Saved time .
5 Star video.
Thank you very much indeed.
I like all your video's. You possess a wealth of knowledge about all these modern overly complicated prone-to-fail engines we have to deal with today. Makes me want my old slant six plymouth back.
I have a 2013 odyssey. Was having the rear plug issue bad. Had to resort to the VCM disabler. I have had it on for 2 weeks and the difference is AMAZING. It now runs like a proper Honda!
Hi. please tell us the product model name for the vcm disabler or a link online where you bought it. thanks.
Straight up TROOPER!! I would never work on something outside in those weather conditions!!! My hats off to you buddy!!!
Well it's too bad it's even colder this week....I don't think I can film next week's video for you guys 😓
Excellent video showing the wear damage caused by the VCM 👍 AND that is why mine is deactivated.
Thanks for sharing
Yes deactivated with VCMUZZLER on a Honda
@@MX-CO hey there, i have a 2005 honda Accord EXL, how do i deactivate it ? it is a LEV , low emmission vehicle, is that the same thing ?
@@MX-CO I prefer the S-VCM over the muzzler. Zero tuning/tweaking or seasonal adjustment. It also will correctly report any over temp.
Don't forget adding a catch can.
@@BowWowPewPewCQ what’s a catch can and do you notice you’re spending more on gas?
@BowWowPewPewCQ what is a catch can and what does it do?
This crazy man always comes with new fantastic knowledge. I really enjoy every video... Thumbs up 💓
Great information. I have a 3.5 l with cylinder deactivation so this video was very useful to me.
I had only heard of VCM, today i got to see it and with nice explanation plus causes of failure
Thanx
The most concise explanation that I've seen on how the VCM is a bad thing. Thanks!
Agreed. Don't get it
He looses me after the first 5 minutes of what’s going on, but I still feel smarter at the end of his videos than the beginning. Love it!
Why did I loose you? Boring?
@@speedkar99 lol, not boring. i just wish i was as smart as you. i will get there. i just need to watch more videos!
@@speedkar99 noooo, not boring, whose toothbrush you took made you think that?
You are A number one teacher.
It's our fault if we get lost.
Me, I started thinking, imagining your take on Citroen ID 19 with non-electric hydraulic ABS computer that used the weight of the car when braking to achieve equal quadrant patch pressure even down level of air pressure in the tires.
In fact the springless all hydraulic suspension allowed for driving on 3 wheels if necessary.
All that in 19"frigin"55!
Yeah, over 3/4 of a century ago.
No , commie leftists eco-over-engineered fail design whatsoever.
Check out the late 50"s and 1960's ID& DS citroen (later they got taken over and "takin' out" by dreamkillers & conformity to lower standards.
*lose
Problem is actually talking so fast without drawing breath. Nobody can take in information at that speed. I know it's the fashion now to talk fast on TH-cam, but we actually need easy -going speech, with gaps for assimilation of knowledge. Please reflect this back to TH-cam!
I used to go to the scrapyard and explore different engines for fun. Thanks for these videos
Awesome, I do the same as well, browse the junkyard and take a look under the hood of interesting cars
I’ve been trying to search exactly how the cylinder deactivation works on the V6 engines (I’m well aware how the v8 engines work with cylinder deactivation ) and your video has the best explanation. Thank you
Wow! You are the most awesome person in the world. I enjoy every video. Can’t imagine the amount of work you do in each video and off camera that goes unappreciated by us. Amazing!
Thanks, here's a behind the scenes video if you are interested:
th-cam.com/video/Yna_ECtOtb8/w-d-xo.html
I hope someone starts a class action lawsuit against Honda for this vcm issue. We just had to spend $5000 on engine work because of this issue. And our 2012 Odyssey only had 88k miles on it
This could be the only car guy to be sponsored by Colgate. Loved the video !
I believe that’s an oral-B
As always, I find your videos inspirational.
I'm so glad I wasn't the only one that immediately thought: "oh look, that's a weird smiley face".
Fantastic, educational, well-presented content. Keep up the good work.
I have this engine in my Accord. I burn 1 quart every 5000 miles after a rebuild at 116k miles
Ouch. What year?
@@speedkar99 2010
5000 miles per quart
thats not much bad but its better to install oil catch can if you dont have one to keep your intake clean
@@Techie1224 I change my oil every 5000 miles and I'm mostly highway driving
I disabled VCM on my ‘08 Accord at around 80k miles. Thankfully at 172k it doesn’t burn a single drop of oil.
someone called henry in comments wish to disable it , if you have useful info you can tell em 😊
How did you disable it?
@@D4LM4R
Look for vcm muzzler or S-Vcm
If the j35 is running below normal temperature the VCM would not kick in
@@D4LM4R ktunner... thats the right way.. no gadgets that will trick your ecu ...
I'm at 88k miles on my 2012 Odyssey. Which VCM muzzler did you purchase?
Love your videos dude.. especially when do work on your v6 camry because its very similar to my car and your videos have helped me a ton working on car.. But even if it's not my engine, your videos are still awesome
Thanks. My V6 Camry has been good so far that's why you haven't seen much of it on the channel. I use it to tow a trailer with all these failed engines home haha
Thank you for the in-depth demonstration and visualization. Very well done!
Your knowledge and simplistic way of explaining the complexity & workings of an engine leads me to conclude not only are you an technical engineer but also an educator of such👍🏾🍻.
Thanks. Im not a teacher, just mechanical engineer
@@speedkar99 I disagree, I've learned a lot. Thanks dude!
Darn, thats transference, from hole to port to channel to piston to lever to rocker to .... aaaahhhhhh .....
Did anybody tell you yet?? You are a genius, cutting through these ordeals like it was butter ... Amazing !
😊
Wonderful! I hope you are getting well paid for all your knowledge. Helped me understand my 2016 Odyssey shudder from VCM.
Excellent explanatory video about VCM. Thanks making it possible.
Man you're good, you sound as if you were part of the design team at Honda. Great video.
i really like your videos .. its deep technical and informative 😊
Impressed your able to work out there in the cold bro
Excellent video as always!
Great explanation with all the details!
Thanks
Good explanation! It’s very important to use good synthetic oil in these engines. That way build up is less likely to occur.
Yeah synthetic helps but regular oil can work with frequent change intervals
Love the J series videos! makes me glad that I have a 6 speed accord with VTEC only lol
'21 Ridgeline... Installed VCM defeat module at 5000 miles.. Thanks for the explanation...
You know yr day is cool when you get a notification fr this channel
Thanks for subscribing
I've used a device called, "S-VCM Controller" every since I purchased my 2008 Accord v6 at 165k. It tricks the computer into not engaging the cylinder deactivation. I now have 260k and no oil burning issues at all. I'm not sure if the piston rings were replaced under recall by the previous 2 owners before me, but I've witnessed a v6 Honda Accord switching from ECO to normal mode while operating and a plume of smoke coming out the tail pipe every time. I did my research before purchasing this car & it paid off! I am not disappointed at all. During my 3 years & 100k with this car 0 major repairs. I'm glad I purchased the "S-VCM Controller.
I'm about to do the same with a 2 dollar resistor, hoping it works...
@@TaylordBuDMaN Spend the money on the smart resistor. It's worth it.
I did the same with our RDX and it works great!
@@timbucker It's so seamless! I often forget it's installed.
S-VCM is the truth! 2010 Accord v6 Ex-l with 180k. It made it feel like a whole different car.
Great video Speedy!
Your videos are always so entertaining, educational, and engaging. Keep up the good work man. Also, is that wind noise? It looks cold
It was very cold and windy...but that's Canadian February's
Excellent video, as usual! Nice pace, good information!
It seems that fooling the computer into thinking the engine isn't warmed up would cause it to run open loop (as if the choke is on) which would cause it to run rich all the time (poor mileage, carbon build-up, poor cylinder lubrication). I also thought maybe one of the failure mechanisms might be when the back three cylinders are reactivated, re-engaging the pistons in the rocker arms might be a little dicey with the stationary rocker arm piston trying to engage a fast-moving part. But the oil-burning bit - ugh! Seems like it might be better to hold all the valves open, but then that would introduce other problems unless maybe there were separate intake and exhaust systems...
That's not actually true. The VCM disable devices only slightly affect the reading out of the ECT1 sensor. The ECT2 sensor is left alone. It's been found to have no negative affects.
Great explanation :) better than what you learn in school
School isn't for learning
absolutely excellent content!
Very informational video. Had to look at this video because Ford’s cylinder deactivation works in a very similar way in their new F150’s with the 5.0 Coyote engine. I was hesitant to enable the feature, since I had control in turning it off, depending on what driving mode I selected. Since I’m only using flex fuel and the newer engines have both direct and port injection, I’m not too worried about carbon build up. Probably just have to keep an eye out for oil consumption, and ensure I change out the oil regularly.
Awesome video. I feel armed with knowledge. Going through this ring and misfire dance right now with my Honda Pilot 2011 :/
Use a vcm muzzler
Excellent video. I muzzled my Odyssey's VCM long ago and it was the best thing I did for that engine.
How many miles and any Ill-issues?
How did u do it?
@@speedkar99 Over 50,000 miles ago and no issues whatsoever. It just tricks the VCM into thinking that the van isn't warmed up fully for the VCM to engage, keeping it running on all 6 cylinders all the time like it should be...
@@perverso12345 I got the MaxMuzzler on the Honda Odyssey forum, but there are a bunch of them out there now.
I disabled mine at 40k in my pilot I have 190k no issues.there still Piggies on gas but it stopped the shutter on my transmition and vcm vibration back at 40k no 190k and before I disabled it I was burning oil by 1 quart by 40% .when I disabled it it stopped burning.i also do all my own services ,oil changes ,all fluids brakes,diff services ,plugs and timing belt which is up soo I'll do it on 195k.best thing I ever did.my friend didn't want to do it and he has so much trouble with engine right now at 110k .I told him I'll install mine and he drove around for 3 minth and a lot of his issues went away engine sounded better vibration gone trans skip at 2k was gone all and he did a full oil change and it was down half quart compared to 1.5 quarts by full oil change .he was convinced he got one and 3 of my friends techs are honda recommend them tech for 15 yrs now
Thank you for taking the time to create this very informative video. We need to buy a new car and now I will not get one with VCM or cylinder deactivation (Mazda).
Well this is just Honda's take...wonder if Mazda has addressed these issues
It most have been cold outside, thanks for the informative video.
Can I send you my old toothbrushes. I’d love my brush to be featured in your videos lol
lol
😂😂
Nope.... you've gotta send your brother's toothbrush
@@carlosmejia5728 LOL
Great video. 2009 Odyssey bought new and used oil from the beginning which I thought was crazy for a new car. The govt should have forced a recall, but instead they let Honda extend the warranty a little bit which screwed over folks like me. They extended the warranty to 8 years unlimited miles and would only fix if misfire trouble codes were present. At 9.5 years our CATs clogged up and we had no misfires. That was $4k at a local shop I trust and not long after that the misfires started. Local shop doesn't do piston rings, so I had to pay it at dealer prices. Then the jerks at the dealer left ALL the valves loose on the rear bank. I told them the valve sounds were way louder than before..nah they said...local shop agreed with me...dealer said it was a cam shaft and then it was the timing belt idler pully..nope. Finally convinced the local shop guy to look at and he took to a friend at another dealer and three guys reached the same conclusion: loose valves. Local guy adjusted them and the noise went back to normal. The dealer is either incompetent or a crook or both and the only way I would get another Honda is if they gave it to me. It's barely 12 years old: Two alternators, power steering pressure hose, bushing on sliding door, starter motor, A/C clutch destroyed itself so new compressor, all new CATs and associated sensors and ALL 6 cylinders with piston rings replaced (assuming they even did the work). Of course the motor mounts are trashed from the VCM. And I bought Honda for quality and reliability?!?!?....sorry for the rant.
well, sorry to hear about your shitty experience, i hope you have no further issues
Recalls only have to be done if it’s a safety issue
@@Whateva67 not true at all. if something is faulty and its at fault of the oem then they will be handed a class action lawsuit and have to compensate or repair it
@@dylanc2806 in this instance govt let them off the hook with 8 year limit. Of course still using oil. Gas mileage has gone to hell. City is in the low teens while long interstate trips are about 20. Already getting a catalytic efficiency code on one Cat which only has about 35k miles on it since replacement. Previous and current symptoms sure read like valve stem guide seals are a problem. You only ever see smoke when idling for a while which apparently is the highest vacuum. What I don’t know is if they are worn or is this just another design flaw from Honda and replacing is just a short temporary fix.
@@puterbac yeah that really sucks. sometimes OEMs will negotiate recalls and whatnot and try to rectify the issue before a recall is initiated
Very detailed information great video 👌
Excellent! Very enlightening!
Thank you for these very interesting videos. It is pretty neat to be able to see these different systems torn down. It makes them much easier to understand. Your explanation is spot on. The only thing I feel bad about it your poor brother. He must spend a fortune in clothes after you borrow them to clean up oil spills.
Glad you find them interesting
No brothers old gym shorts? No wifeys undies to sap up any oil????
Shoot I knew I missed something
Thanks man. This guy was saying how his gas mileage is great because on the highway his car runs on 2 cylinders, but I’ll stick to my 1995 diesel which gets the same mileage with no fancy electrics
Just bought a '15 Odyssey Elite. Great vid. Thanks!
The engines on those aren't as sturdy as the old J series. Disable VCM.
Thank You Very Much!
Thanks for taking the time to do all of these really awesome videos! I just learned that my dads 07 EX-L Odyssey has VCM from you. I've been changing the oil with full synthetic high mileage every 3-5 thousand miles and the van had a rather big oil leak from the valve cover gasket. I put a 1/4th a bottle of AT-205 and that completely stopped the leak. After that I changed the sparkplugs after a Cyl. 2 Misfire code at 145k miles, I used some NGK Iridium plugs but I am noticing much worse gas mileage, would I have to disconnect the battery to let the computer relearn the new spark plugs? I dont think VCM is a huge issue in our case since my dad drives pretty fast, and the Eco light hardly ever goes on at 80mph. I think VCM only kicks in at 70mph and below
Why not fix the leak?
@@speedkar99 Thats too much work for me haha, but I did learn how to rebuild the parking brake from your video! Totally saved my cousin and I when we were changing the brake rotors and realized that the rear right rotor was not disengaging the ebrake so we had to hammer the old rotor out at 10pm Thanks to your video and AutoZone for having the kit of all the included springs we were able to finish by 12am! Youre awesome man and I watch your videos as much as I can!
This answered a lot of questions.
Very nice explanation as usual, I always thought all VCM systems worked fully electronically by just shutting off fuel / spark to cylinder(s) ECU wants to deactivate and letting mechanical parts keep going as usual.
It might do that while coasting to a stop and engine braking
Excellent video, in theory the combustion pressure is what helps to push the rings against the walls, so without that positive pressure the oil does get sucked past the rings into the combustion chamber. It wouldn't surprise me that that is the very thing that aligns the rings over time. A local engine rebuilder who builds the 5.3's with the AFM system states that the rings on the deactivation cylinders are always glued to the pistons.
Its a horrible invention and it needs to be defeated on every vehicle that it comes with. Had I known about this system I would never had purchased my Honda, and I strongly recommend anyone considering a vehicle with cylinder shut-down to NOT purchase one.
I'm not a fan of the original coolant temp VCM defeat method, unless it is the smart version. Even with this muzzler the VCM can still come on in higher temp weather. I would like to see a better method invented like a custom engine tune or custom PCM that could be purchased.
Hi, have you seen the S-VCM controller? I appears to fix everything except being about 10% cooler on the thermostat reading. I am a new honda owner, kinda concerned even with low mileage.
@@i-changeus I'm new to this as well. Have you looked at the KTuner? More expensive, but it programs the VCM to stay off, as opposed to tricking the computer to think its Coolant temp is lower than it actually is.
VW Taos has VCM. Seems like a cool car but I prob won't be buying one after watching this.
@@jasonschell1309 Thanks for the idea, and yes, I looked briefly into it, but as you mentioned, it's like $400-500 from what I found. I did instal the S-VCM, and it works great. The coolant temp is only slightly cooler than actual. I put a switch on the dash too, so I can switch on/off if desired later.
I had the 2007 Odyssey with the VCM engine and I never had any problems with it, I traded it in when it had 57,000 miles on it and purchased a 2015 EXL with the VCM engine. I installed the Tuner 2 on that car and the ECO mode is never engaged. Anyone that has a Honda should join the Ody club and you will learn everything about this engine and why you should turn off the VCM feature. I only have 29,000 miles on this Odyssey and since I am 80 Years old I will probably keep it until I croak. I was looking at a new vehicle, but now they are all coming with that idle stop feature and I hate it.
What if we unplug vcm solenoid does it hurts the engine or any damage to the engine???
Excellent video! Thank you Sir
Thanks for the tip!! You really know your stuff
You are welcome
Great video, I’m hoping Honda/Acura made advancements to their VCM tech. We have a 2017 Honda Accord V6, & I change the oil religiously every 3500 miles with the best oil. So far, no oil burning or troubles from the engine at all. Now the daytime LED headlights are another story...
Keep up on the oil. The 2017 is the last of the V6 Accord.
@@speedkar99 - Indeed, & I love the power & smoothness of this engine. I hope in another video, you’ll show the different versions of the company’s VCM.
Love the videos man!
You should also change the transmission fluid more often than Honda says if you want to still be driving it at 250k miles. I have a friend who knows Honda engines and history of problems and he drains and replaces his every 15k miles. I just got a used RDX and will change mine every 30K miles minimum unless the service tech says the fluid looks bad and then Ill move to 15k miles.
@@georgesmith4639 agreed, we have multiple Honda/Acura vehicles. And I personally do a drain and refill of the transmission fluid 3 times a year.
@@MrSamPhoenix I saw on another video today that there's a transmission fluid filter that also needs changing (I think every 30k miles). It's located way down below the battery. Just curious if you change that as well and how hard it is to do from the top side.
Glad we cheaped out on our 07 Odyssey when we bought it and just got the 3.5 VTEC without VCM
Good choice. Should last for years
@@speedkar99 we’ve put 160k miles on it. Engine will outlast the car.... and the transmission
great video. thanks for the effort. i deactivated my 2010 pilot vcm long after i knew i should have.
Does it seem it’s helped your engine as intended?
@@augustcleavitt yes. i wish i knew about vcm deactivation sooner. its a simple plug and play installation.
I love your videos! Keep it up!
Thanks
Hi Speekar, Great explanations as you go a bit more indepth! Question, have you seen the S-VCM controller? It appears to fix everything except being about 10% cooler on the thermostat reading. I think this VCM is a big opportunity if it is 'solved' as there are so many Honda 3.5L's. Thanks Speedkar.
I have the svcm in my accord, works beautifully. From what I remember it only modifies the signal in the running temp range and passes the true signal through for any other temp and that seems to be my experience. And it's very easy to disable with the 12v power wire that feeds it. In power loss it becomes passive all the time and just passes the true signal through.
I still need to do the rings and cats on my engine but the oil consumption has plummeted. From 5-7 qts between oil changes down to just 1-2 qts, which I attribute to the rings and the valve cover gasket leaking. Still need to clean the spark plugs at each oil change but it's better than needing to replace them all the time from a misfire.
I'm a very happy customer.
Thanks for clearly explaining why cylinder deactivation does not work. To be honest, I always had doubts about this feature, thinking about parasitic frictional losses as the non-firing pistons move up down. Never did I think that the vacuum created in the non-firing cylinders would suck oil where it is not supposed to go. This reminds of of another technology that was designed with efficiency in mind - direct fuel injection. Early versions of DFI created havoc with carbon build up behind intake valves, leading to the very problems they were trying to overcome in the first place. As they say, the path to hell is paved with good intentions.
Yeah it might save fuel but at what OTHER cost?
Whether engines or anything - people try so hard to escape a simple fact. Problems are never solved, just rearranged. There is always a trade-off. Sometimes the trade off is worse than the original problem.
Just disable it, easy
I have Chrysler's MDS, and rather than the system creating vacuum, it creates pressure, as it would if the cylinders were firing. It's a shame that Honda couldn't figure this out, and it's ironic that Chrysler has the best cylinder deactivation system.
Great video!
Thank you for the description video.
Urban legend says - every time one says a 417 000 km engine is a failure for Honda - an Eco-Boosted Mustang -guy, attempts suicide.
417.000 km and was rebuilt in the meantime.
The only solution seems to be cylinder deactivation deactivation :)
That muzzler idea doesn't seem so bad
Good & best review ever..!
Very details video. You are the best
Is it possible to adapt VCM to non-interference engine with the intake & exhaust valves open during cylinder shut down? This case the inactive cylinders would not have compression and vacuum to cause the mentioned problems.
Interference vs noninterference is unrelated. Leaving valves open would increase pumping losses. Basically half the engine would be engine braking and it would make vcm even less capable of improving emissions.
It would probably be better to go with a super nonaggressive cam (targeting half power) for all 6 cylinders in eco mode and "vtech" back up to normal cam profile as needed. Should result in smoother power delivery and keeping even stresses and even heat throughout (metal expanding unevenly is bad) since it would still rely on their vtech style implementation it should be fine from a patent perspective. My guess is that vcm was one of those marketing based engineering decisions. Might be easier to explain "sometimes 6 cylinders" than "echo vtech"
@@Jon-yh3gb It is not unrelated. Think about that idea. It would work! Whole engine would have a low compression ratio tho.
Leaving the intake and exhaust valves open would not really work on 99% of cars that have a shared intake plenum. The intake and exhaust would be directly linked all the time through the dead cylinder, bypassing the throttle and killing intake vacuum for all the cylinders still working. Maybe you could make it work on a car with individual throttle bodies and exhaust, but I doubt it.
It is very odd how Honda can pull off such a failure when at the same time and same year pull off some of the best engines ever. The J35A5 I had in my old 2006 MDX was so far the only engine that burnt 0 oil even at 200k+ miles towing an RV on very long road trips like 8000 mile trips and the oil was still full at the end. The run after more MPG just lead them to making errors it seems.
How heavy was the camper?
Excellent video and explanation too!
Thank you kindly!
Great video man
Awesome thanks
Love how many engines you take apart seem to have those Fram filters!
Almost like there's a correlation of some kind.
To solve the problems from single-engine VCM, one might want to consider two engines independently driving a two-input transmission through a plenary gear set.
Hybrids
Agreed
Excellent video. There is a way to avoid failures with this system with good maintenance or it is sure to cause problems.
Excellent video, thank you
You are welcome
I'll never buy a car with cylinder deactivation.
There is a cheap and easy add on to permanently turn it off - look up VCM muzzler.
You will soon be forced in everything
The electric cars are coming, they will be mandatory before cylinder deactivation crap becomes standard.
@@donaldlee6760 ever for the new mazda skyactiv engines?
I've been wondering at what point did emissions equip start to become detrimental to longevity. This seems like a good candidate. Any idea when this was first implemented by Honda?
With this same engine, 2005 Accord hybrid and the Odyssey
I believe this is more to keep up with CAFE standards than for emissions purposes. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_average_fuel_economy
@@StephenPaul1160 yeah you know I said emissions but yes it's more efficiency than emissions like you said
CAFE ruined it for car owners. CVT, Direct injection, Unibody construction, VCM
It's affecting the longevity of everything. Brake rotors are thinner so they can be lighter but warp more easily. Glass is thinner but chips and breaks more easily. It goes on.
Amazing video, I bought a 08 accord and the first thing I bought for it was a vcm muffler to disable the eco mode
Good call
muffler? 🤔 ....is that a VCM Muzzler kit?
@@Texaca Haha yeah I misspelled it
Very well explained
Good video .
Thanks, glad you understood everything
Quick qualifier, I’m a Honda technician, while I agree that the VCM system isn’t perfect; I literally did piston rings on a 11 odyssey today, that discoloration difference between bank 1 and 2 is very common, and not due to a rebuild. Like literally virtually all 6 cyl Honda motors are gonna look night and day different between bank 1 & b2.
Bank 1 is always 10x nicer looking then bank 2. I’ve asked 2 master techs I work with why that is, I’ve heard different theories, one is the path of the oil, the other is that bank 2 runs hotter because it’s always live (for the most part, cyl 4 can deactivate also)
Good to know that.
Even non VCM motors have that color discrepancy. How long did it take to finish that Odyssey?
@@speedkar99 embarrassingly long.
Original complaint was a b1 & b2 tw-wuc failure, turned out it was due to oil consumption fouling the cats. So it booked out at 27 hours according to Alldata , that’s 22.6 hours for 4 out of 6 piston ring sets then 4.4 hrs for both cats, we thru in a t-belt service that included water pump, belts etc concurrently to shave off 4 hours but still, it was pricey.
It was about the biggest job you can do on that engine before it just becomes cheaper to find a used engine.
Client was very cool, took me about 20 hrs to do the 27 hrs labor, that’s including valve adjustment (Honda’s don’t use hydraulic lifters) coolant flush, oil change etc.
I wish I could post a pic of the four pistons I removed, cleaned and reinstalled with new rings. From the top, they looked like new (yes, I know you don’t have to go all OCD when cleaning the pistons but for 20+ hours labor, I’ll spend 1hr scrubbing pistons in a bath of VOCs :)
As for the original question about discoloration, I’ve seen it all the way back to the first gen pilots and odyssey’s, so my theory is that the way the oil flows, it’s just hotter, more likely to leave deposits by the time it’s draining down the passages in b2, but again, that’s my guess, I have not had that confirmed by any Honda engineers.
Edit* I meant the same time frame odyssey’s, I realize they go back way further*
Does 4th Gen Honda Pilots have same issue? (2023 / 24 models)
your knowledge just .... amazing
Great video! Its a shame that Fram makes the current Honda factory oil filters. Looks like Wix is the way to go.