@@_Digitalguy really? How? Heat has the tendency to raise plus when in some cases you’re putting it on your lap or on the bed which your body can transfer heat to it or your bed sheets or pillow can cover the ventilations, I don’t see how what your said is true. All monitors uses LED to produce backlight now a days as oppose to flouresecent so little to no heat is produced.
thanks for showing this and it helps us to understand that even with powerful components as advertised, laptops still suffer from sustained intensive work and throttle happens. It happens to my Acer nitro 5 too. I used a lot of Unity3d for game development but with intensive long hours of work, the machine starts to slow down and fps starts to drop. That is something now as consumers we should take that into consideration like a more intelligent cooling system so long-hour work will be more comfortable.
*I would probably have to choose 13.5 inch because even though the quality and battery life isn't as good as 15 inch, it is more portable so I can carry it around easier. Plus, the power is still amazing.*
SB2 temperature throttle too. Once it gets hot it drops GPU memory speed 4007mhz to 3000mhz too. Need to game with USB fan and in View Mode with fan placed at mouse pad
Have you tried undervolting? I don't own a surface book so I'm not sure if it's even possible. But that may help with the throttling. Great video though! Thank you.
The Quadro is essentially a stripped rtx 2070 that performs just below an rtx 2060 mobile. About 40% more performance than the 1660ti for 80% more in price. What do you reckon?
@@Hhh-j8o Bought both, compared them right next to each other. You get about 5-8 more fps on the Quadro but for some weird reason the CPU performs much better on the GTX variant (even though both have the same CPUs). At the end of the day, both performed relatively bad. Average fps of flight sim on Medium Settings was something between 21-24fps on the GTX version and 25-28fps on the Quadro. Interestingly though after 1h of gaming both would settle around 21-23fps. Long story short: Returned both and bought an Acer Concept D7 Ezel instead. It has a RTX 2080 Super graphics card and I’m very happy with it. Performs well and does everything it needs. It’s also getting a refresh in late August, so there’ll be a RTX 3080 version with the latest gen intel i7 processor. I don’t think the Surface Book 3 is worth it considering the hardware is quite outdated already.
Nice review and great comparison thanks. Other reviews I've seen talk about the GPU fans being quite loud under full power - I was just wondering which power mode you had set? If it was set on say balanced and not best performance it may be why it is throttling and limiting fan noise? Please update.
I also noticed other reviews mentioning the fans be loud; but I also imagine those other reviewers have never used gaming laptops; and only macbooks or something of that nature. These devices were set to Best Performance and the fan noise is very quiet compared to even the SB2.
@@cbutters Thanks for the clarification. I really like the twin form factor but also want to game. I'm beginning to think it's an ask just slightly too far.
Does the 13" hit that heat ceiling quick/frequently? (Like where it throttles down to a halt?) I've been eyeing that model for its size, versatility in what I need to work, plus I would like something that could to some casual, light gaming now and then.
What drivers are you using to game on the 15 inch? On my Surface Book 3 15 inch, 32 GB, GeForce 1660 Ti MaxQ I'm seeing weird, moving green & purple squares over the screen (and worse) which always result in game and 3D application crashes. I'm using the latest Nvidia Studio driver, as there's no Game Ready driver available?
Do the speakers on yours sound worse at full volume than the Surface Book 2? I turned off Dolby Atmos and that helped a little but they still sound distorted at full volume and my Surface Book 2 sounded cleaner.
Has anyone found an annoying electronic buzz when using headphones plugged into the headphone jack? I am on my second one from MS and still having that issue. (13" i7 32gb 1TB)
Same problem on my SB3 13 1To... By Microsoft after CpU blocked to 0.19ghz on my model. It’s enough for me. I will take a MacBook Pro 16 on the Refurb.
Download MSI Afterburner; and bump your core clocks up in the interface to around +140 and hit apply. It sounds counter-intuitive; but really what you are doing is undervolting the core so it uses less voltage at a given clock speed. This may help a little as well as you give your device just a bit more clock speed within the same power envelope.
I ordered the 13.5'' luckily in Spain I have student discount, and the pen is free! I'm a product designer and I'll use it to 50% sketching and 50% modeling-renderimg. How do you thing is going to run?
I've noticed the exact same behaviour with my surfacebook 2 15". when i run msi after burner, depending on the ambient temperature of the room, after about 10-15 minutes of gameplay the GPU memory speed will throttle from 4007mhz down to 3000mhz. This is because it's thermal throttling as reported by msi afterburner. It shows the temp limit when this happens. So the tdp of the gpu goes from 65-80 watts down to 50-55watts when this occurs. One way to get around this is to use a laptop cooling pad. Since there are temperature sensors in the base. It appears microsoft have set it this way purposely for the book 2 probably to stop it from power draining or too keep it cool and quite. I also noticed the fan speed decreases too so it has a lot more cooling headroom. I wish they added a "game mode" so you have the option for it to run at full power. What's the point of the new 127 watt power adapter if they are going to throttle the GPU performance like this. They have set the thermal throttling limit far too harshly.
I absolutely agree! Especially the 13.5" version! They used to have a 1050 in there running at 50 watts! But they have capped the GTX 1650 at only 35 Watts now! There are other laptops out there that ALSO use the GTX 1650 Max-Q; but they allow 40+ watts. There is so much more performance on the table. It is true though that the fans on the Surface Book 3 are nice and quiet... But yes a gaming mode that ramps the fans and ups the tdp on both the 13 and 15 would be very very welcome.
Very interesting. Could you do the same with Cinebench R20? I'm curious to see how the CPU power management differs between the 2. The 15'' does have a fan in the screen, so that is supposed to help.
The keyboard contains most of the stuff needed to actually run effectively for gaming. So you could flip the screen around and fold it, but you need it to be connected to be able to run its best.
:D The secret silver honeycomb version... I've always been a fan of dbrand's "Swarm" skin; but they don't offer it in silver; instead check out SopiGuard on ebay; they sell SB2 skins that look the same as dbrand swarm; but more color options
@@cbutters surfacebook 2 15 vs surfacebook 3 13" is what I was inquiring. Would upgrading from surface book 2 15" to smaller sb3 13" be equal graphics wise or downgrade?
@@djcoolssm Ooops sorry; my bad. I now understand your question. Yes; moving from SB2 15" to SB3 13" would be downgrade for the graphics; The GTX 1650 in the 13" is capable of ~80% of the performance of the SB2's GTX 1060.
I have the 15", 256gb, gtx 1660 ti, 16gb ram. the laptop doesnt want to use the 1660 GPU and only uses the intel GPU. As a result it maxes out 100% CPU and 100% of the intel GPU. This causes the laptop to completely freeze and becomes unresponsive and i have to do a hard shutdown and re-boot the laptop. anyone else experiencing this issue? any fixes? ive been on the phone to microsoft for 5hrs total trying to get it fixed and they cant seem to fix it either. they have even replaced my surface book 3 with a brand new one and the issue is still happening. someone please help solve this issue!
You have to put your battery mode in “performance mode”. Click on your (battery icon). Slide it over to high performance. BOOM uses the NVIDIA graphics card.
I am amazed at how Microsoft manages to cool passively that I7 in the 13.5in
I just bought the 13.5 i5 is hot after 4 hours of google meet.
@@sebis7733 to be expected, videoconference taxes CPU a lot
Having the cpu attached to the panel that is in vertically orientation helps with heat dissipation a lot.
@@AnTran-rc8yj it's rather the contrary, having the CPU in the screen makes it harder to cool than if it was in the base
@@_Digitalguy really? How? Heat has the tendency to raise plus when in some cases you’re putting it on your lap or on the bed which your body can transfer heat to it or your bed sheets or pillow can cover the ventilations, I don’t see how what your said is true. All monitors uses LED to produce backlight now a days as oppose to flouresecent so little to no heat is produced.
thanks for showing this and it helps us to understand that even with powerful components as advertised, laptops still suffer from sustained intensive work and throttle happens. It happens to my Acer nitro 5 too. I used a lot of Unity3d for game development but with intensive long hours of work, the machine starts to slow down and fps starts to drop. That is something now as consumers we should take that into consideration like a more intelligent cooling system so long-hour work will be more comfortable.
wow that 15 inc model rocks !!!
*I would probably have to choose 13.5 inch because even though the quality and battery life isn't as good as 15 inch, it is more portable so I can carry it around easier. Plus, the power is still amazing.*
yeah i have the 15 inch and it is ineed just absolutely massive and can be a bit of a pain when u like something more portable.
Love this channel my guy 👍🏿
SB2 temperature throttle too. Once it gets hot it drops GPU memory speed 4007mhz to 3000mhz too. Need to game with USB fan and in View Mode with fan placed at mouse pad
Have you tried undervolting? I don't own a surface book so I'm not sure if it's even possible. But that may help with the throttling. Great video though! Thank you.
I tried using a small USB fan on my SB2 blowing on the back of the tablet and I could see that I could game for a sustained time a lot better.
Thank u your reviews!! Good information for me.
Would you prefer the nVidia Quadro option or the GTX 1060 Ti on the 15inch option? Which one is more powerful for gaming?
The Quadro is essentially a stripped rtx 2070 that performs just below an rtx 2060 mobile. About 40% more performance than the 1660ti for 80% more in price.
What do you reckon?
@@Hhh-j8o Bought both, compared them right next to each other. You get about 5-8 more fps on the Quadro but for some weird reason the CPU performs much better on the GTX variant (even though both have the same CPUs). At the end of the day, both performed relatively bad. Average fps of flight sim on Medium Settings was something between 21-24fps on the GTX version and 25-28fps on the Quadro. Interestingly though after 1h of gaming both would settle around 21-23fps.
Long story short:
Returned both and bought an Acer Concept D7 Ezel instead. It has a RTX 2080 Super graphics card and I’m very happy with it. Performs well and does everything it needs.
It’s also getting a refresh in late August, so there’ll be a RTX 3080 version with the latest gen intel i7 processor.
I don’t think the Surface Book 3 is worth it considering the hardware is quite outdated already.
well done ... think i'm wait for xps 17 thanks for doing video.
Nice review well done mate
Nice review and great comparison thanks.
Other reviews I've seen talk about the GPU fans being quite loud under full power - I was just wondering which power mode you had set? If it was set on say balanced and not best performance it may be why it is throttling and limiting fan noise? Please update.
I also noticed other reviews mentioning the fans be loud; but I also imagine those other reviewers have never used gaming laptops; and only macbooks or something of that nature. These devices were set to Best Performance and the fan noise is very quiet compared to even the SB2.
@@cbutters Thanks for the clarification. I really like the twin form factor but also want to game. I'm beginning to think it's an ask just slightly too far.
Does the 13" hit that heat ceiling quick/frequently? (Like where it throttles down to a halt?)
I've been eyeing that model for its size, versatility in what I need to work, plus I would like something that could to some casual, light gaming now and then.
What drivers are you using to game on the 15 inch? On my Surface Book 3 15 inch, 32 GB, GeForce 1660 Ti MaxQ I'm seeing weird, moving green & purple squares over the screen (and worse) which always result in game and 3D application crashes. I'm using the latest Nvidia Studio driver, as there's no Game Ready driver available?
GPU artifactig? RMA.
Yeah, it was a broken GPU in the end. I returned the Surface and ordered a replacement.
Do the speakers on yours sound worse at full volume than the Surface Book 2? I turned off Dolby Atmos and that helped a little but they still sound distorted at full volume and my Surface Book 2 sounded cleaner.
disable dolby atmos and let me know what you think.
@@cbutters I tried it and it's louder but still sounds more muffled than my Surface Book 2 at full volume. Is that your experience too?
This was a good video, have you tried if the surface dock would improve performance as it has an increased power supply?
The surface dock 2 doesn't improve anything. The extra power of the dock is for pheripherals.
7:50 ,so does that mean if you put a fan on the 13.5 inch it can cool the CPU temperature a little bit?
Has anyone found an annoying electronic buzz when using headphones
plugged into the headphone jack? I am on my second one from MS and still
having that issue. (13" i7 32gb 1TB)
Same problem on my SB3 13 1To...
By Microsoft after CpU blocked to 0.19ghz on my model.
It’s enough for me.
I will take a MacBook Pro 16 on the Refurb.
Do you know any way to fix this?
Download MSI Afterburner; and bump your core clocks up in the interface to around +140 and hit apply. It sounds counter-intuitive; but really what you are doing is undervolting the core so it uses less voltage at a given clock speed. This may help a little as well as you give your device just a bit more clock speed within the same power envelope.
@@cbutters ok thanks, appreciate the video and this response. Subscribed
Is your cpu gonna get hot if you play games at the lowest settings?
Well no shit
Well no shit
Is Ur Haves The Stupids?
U can undervolt it with MSI afterburner. BTW can u compare book 3 to book 2 15 inch ?
I ordered the 13.5'' luckily in Spain I have student discount, and the pen is free! I'm a product designer and I'll use it to 50% sketching and 50% modeling-renderimg. How do you thing is going to run?
Same,except im from the uk and git the 15 inch
You may want to test one after the other. not much space to breathe on your desk for these poor laptops.
all the screen reflections were done on purpose? artistic effect and shaky camera, perhaps need to improve this dude.
I've noticed the exact same behaviour with my surfacebook 2 15". when i run msi after burner, depending on the ambient temperature of the room, after about 10-15 minutes of gameplay the GPU memory speed will throttle from 4007mhz down to 3000mhz. This is because it's thermal throttling as reported by msi afterburner. It shows the temp limit when this happens. So the tdp of the gpu goes from 65-80 watts down to 50-55watts when this occurs. One way to get around this is to use a laptop cooling pad. Since there are temperature sensors in the base. It appears microsoft have set it this way purposely for the book 2 probably to stop it from power draining or too keep it cool and quite. I also noticed the fan speed decreases too so it has a lot more cooling headroom. I wish they added a "game mode" so you have the option for it to run at full power. What's the point of the new 127 watt power adapter if they are going to throttle the GPU performance like this. They have set the thermal throttling limit far too harshly.
I absolutely agree! Especially the 13.5" version! They used to have a 1050 in there running at 50 watts! But they have capped the GTX 1650 at only 35 Watts now! There are other laptops out there that ALSO use the GTX 1650 Max-Q; but they allow 40+ watts. There is so much more performance on the table. It is true though that the fans on the Surface Book 3 are nice and quiet... But yes a gaming mode that ramps the fans and ups the tdp on both the 13 and 15 would be very very welcome.
I use a USB fan when I game which makes a whole lot of difference on my Surface Book 3.
Which one?
@@oasis2081 ARCTIC Breeze Mobile - Mini USB Desktop Fan with Flexible Neck, Portable Desk Fan on Amazon
Very interesting. Could you do the same with Cinebench R20? I'm curious to see how the CPU power management differs between the 2. The 15'' does have a fan in the screen, so that is supposed to help.
Can you game with just the screen touch and no keyboard or controller?
The keyboard contains most of the stuff needed to actually run effectively for gaming. So you could flip the screen around and fold it, but you need it to be connected to be able to run its best.
@@JayMick is it upgradeable the ram and ssd?
@@chld9078 no it isn't upgradable. Even if you can take it apart, are you going to solder on the ram?....
Do u keep all these devices?
Not all of them, just one or 2 at any given time.
What skin is that on the 15 sb 3?
:D The secret silver honeycomb version... I've always been a fan of dbrand's "Swarm" skin; but they don't offer it in silver; instead check out SopiGuard on ebay; they sell SB2 skins that look the same as dbrand swarm; but more color options
@@cbutters Thanks! keep up the great work
How would the sb3 13" graphics compare to the sb2 15"?
That literally is what this video shows you.... Simply put though; the SB3 15" is 40-63% faster than the 13"
@@cbutters surfacebook 2 15 vs surfacebook 3 13" is what I was inquiring. Would upgrading from surface book 2 15" to smaller sb3 13" be equal graphics wise or downgrade?
@@djcoolssm Ooops sorry; my bad. I now understand your question. Yes; moving from SB2 15" to SB3 13" would be downgrade for the graphics; The GTX 1650 in the 13" is capable of ~80% of the performance of the SB2's GTX 1060.
@@cbutters Ok thank you & no prob! So not too far off if I decided on the smaller form factor. Majority of what I do is CPU related.
@@cbutters thank you for sharing!
I have the 15", 256gb, gtx 1660 ti, 16gb ram. the laptop doesnt want to use the 1660 GPU and only uses the intel GPU. As a result it maxes out 100% CPU and 100% of the intel GPU. This causes the laptop to completely freeze and becomes unresponsive and i have to do a hard shutdown and re-boot the laptop. anyone else experiencing this issue? any fixes? ive been on the phone to microsoft for 5hrs total trying to get it fixed and they cant seem to fix it either. they have even replaced my surface book 3 with a brand new one and the issue is still happening. someone please help solve this issue!
Urban Aerials might be a connection problem between the tablet and keyboard. Try reattaching the screen?
What program are you running where it only uses the Intel GPU? I haven't seen this issue.
@@cbutters ZBrush by pixelogic. it ran fine on my surfacebook 2, now it always maxes the cpu and laptop freezes
You have to put your battery mode in “performance mode”. Click on your (battery icon). Slide it over to high performance. BOOM uses the NVIDIA graphics card.
Would you recommend this gaming
If you remove the tablet, it can start lagging
@@damn754 thanks I ended up with g14 zephyrus
@@trickser24 good idea
What are the specs for each?
both maxed out versions in 15" and 13.5" i7-1065G7 32GB Ram GTX 1650 in the 13.5" and a 1660 Ti in the 15".