Another part of a video series from Wordonfire.org. Bishop Barron will be commenting on subjects from modern day culture. For more visit www.wordonfire.org/
@@daisykuchinad3624 I second this, after spending several months watching all hell unleashed on the world, watching Bishop Barron's videos are truly calming
@aislingquinntarot From Bishop Barron's excellent words to fully explain the churches and the Bible's stance on human sexuality, I feel that he was genuinely with compassion and kindness to reach every single one of us who may identify or in a crisis of identity regarding their own sexual nature that the NO that they often hear is not statements of rebuke, condemnation, forsakenment, rejection or abandonedment by God or the church.
I don’t have anxiety. But, it’s one of the reasons I listen, as well. Believe it or not, I listen while I lift weights! Most dudes are listening to hip hop, I’m listening to sermons! LOLOL!!!
"Sexual experience is not theoretical, but irreducibly personal." Right there you've nailed it. Not only is it irreducibly personal, it's bound to intimacy, and therefore not relatable to trial and error analogies. Ideally sex is the means of a pure expression of love, not an ends to be worshiped in and of itself as you put it. When it's with the one you love and have committed your life to, you're inherently "playing at the masters". Treating it recreationally traps you in the pitch-and-putt.
Bishop Robert Barron, you've got such a magnetic strength, and I am absolutely convinced that Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit speaks to me straightforward through your teachings. When I listen to you in the deepest of my heart I can feel the fire of the Holy Spirit speaking to me. You are so brilliant, even though there are many genius people in the history of life, the way you convey to me Jesus Christ presence, it all makes sense in my life. I can affirm without any doubts that your teachings represent the Jesus Christ I have always yearn for, this is something I have discerned and have arrived to this conclusion after many years of being disappointed and dissatisfied with many priests I met. I always respect them, because they are men of God, they have delivered their lives, committed to God, and they have a ministry, but their teachings and way of sharing me, the presence of Jesus Christ didn't satisfy me at all, kind of very archaical and out dated, too much parsimony and quoting the readings of the Bible but NOT making sense; without an anthropologist, philosophical, psychologist, politic, economic, emotional, cultural and holistic perspective. God has granted you with many natural gifts that you have educated and cultivated and for these and many other reasons, all your teachings make sense in my personal life. I thank God for your praiseworthy priesthood and wise apostolic work. May God grant me the miraculous blessing to become a member of your spiritual family, NOT because I deserve it, but because Jesus Christ loves me. Amen.
In response to all these people saying celibates have nothing valuable to say about sex, let me grant that for the sake of argument. Well, not all priests are virgins. Many have converted from a licentious lifestyle and would now happily echo everything Fr. Barron said in the video. So with that in mind, your argument has no legs to stand on because *many* people who *have* experienced sexual activity would propose *exactly* what is said in this video.
+Alex Wallo Just because someone has experienced sexual activity doesn't mean they have any authority to speak about another person's sexuality. I'm very curious about something... if other people are so wrong about sex, why is it such a big deal? If they're wrong, why do you need to be right? If someone is wrong, why is it even necessary to tell them at all? If you love someone, why try and change them? That is not love... that is fear.
+Loga Fixico Jesus said to repent. That is to change someone for the better. Why allow those you love to settle? People say they want the best for their loved ones. How is settling for sinful behavior the best? Why send your kids to school, then? Why discipline them? Just let them be themselves.
There are monetary consequences to the sexual immorality that has been practiced for decades. There seems to be a tremendous hostility towards marriage in society, and that threatens to deeply shock our infrastructure. No one is an island.
Loga Fixico letting someone live a destructive lifestyle is not loving. Have you ever asked someone engaging in sexual promiscuity if they are truly happy? I assure you, you'll scarcely hear yes. It's just like an analogy: if you saw someone eating rotten food and they seemed to be enjoying it, but you know that that way if eating food would be bad for their health and make them sick, would you let them know that what they're doing will make them unhappy and point them to a fridge stocked full of healthy food, that they may not like but will give them happiness? Or would you simply conclude that trying to change what they do would be unloving (which it wouldn't, of course, and shows complete indifference which is not love).
@@turtlenoheart Hello. I think it is the nature of love to desire the perfection/beafication of the beloved. If you love your child and he is mean you want him to become kind, if you love your friend and she is spiteful you want her to become gracious not because you say "eww, clean yourself so I don't have to deal with or see your ugliness" even though they can be hard to deal with. Rather you say "No that makes you less than what you are meant to be abd it breaks my heart because I desire to see you whole and beautiful."
Excellent exposition Father. We as a culture are almost never exposed to a thoughtful and enlightening understanding of our very natures and our relationship to love. We grasp the gross betrayals like love, and miss our own delusions.
Fr Barron, you analogy of the golf coach saying no to his student's bad golf swings reminds me of Christopher West's example of a piano teacher teaching a piano student. Thank you for this wonderful video.
God bless you Father!.. your words made me think on myself and how I have lived my life so far :).. thanks and please continue spreading your insights in your channel
You're right. And belief is a matter of the will over the intellect-- so arguement is hopeless between two hearts that don't traverse the same plane and don't wish to.
I completely agree. The Catholic Church is the ONLY body in the entire world that teaches what sex is. Sex is holy and used properly mimics the Trinitarian God but used improperly (and there are many ways to use it improperly) will lead to darkness of the soul and wound our hearts thereby leading us farther away from being able to really love the way God loves, which is our goal here on earth. I used to share the popular idea that the Catholic Church hates/condemns sex until I actually went to the Church's documents, doctrines, encyclicals and pastoral letters. In other words, most who hold the 'popular idea' don't really KNOW what the Catholic Church teaches and I was one of them. Now that I know, I wouldn't dream of going back to that very self-centered and distorted understanding of sex I used to have. It just leads to no good.
If you have that mindset then you think all pleasure is evil... Sell your computer and board up your windows! The snow is disgusting and hellish! The only white and good thing is God! GOD, I SAY! Sex feels good because there's a large amount of nerves firing off during it, sex also makes babies through the natural functions of our bodies. Contraceptives were created so you don't mistakenly create a biological life during sex. It's pretty damn black and white.
I'll reply to the only part of your comment that really has substance (although it's flawed substance). "If you have that mindset then you think all pleasure is evil." You are telling me I think all pleasure is evil. How do you know that? Did I say that? My comment didn't even mention the topic of pleasure. Please back up your claim. Don't resort to childish and unintelligent sarcasm. It sounds like you are repeating popular ideas many people and certain circles like to launch to really shut down an intelligent conversation. It's become popular to misrepresent the opposing argument, ridicule it and frankly, lie about it to not be forced to do what any real debate needs to have, namely, intelligent, logical and sensical arguments.
I used sarcasm to make you feel like an idiot, and I succeeded. Whether or not you agree with why I did it doesn't matter. I gave you the reasons why your idea of sex (especially if taught by a religion which has had incidents of child molesting in the church) was wrong, eat 'em and weep.
Devdraco you: If you have that mindset then you think all pleasure is evil.. Me: the fact is that you mis-read what pale was writing. he was saying that not all pleasure is evil. It simply needs to be in the right context.
I encourage anyone with further questions about why the Catholic Church believes what it does about morality to study Pope John Paul II's "Theology of the Body" it is beautiful and inspiring and helped me understand my faith so much more clearly.
@queerveganliberal Because that's not the only text in the Bible. You can also find Jesus' clear recommendation that those who can remain celibate should do so. You also have his own example and that of St. Paul.
Lacking personal experience in many areas, including sexuality, does not disqualify one from engaging in an intelligent discussion of those issues, but personal experience does help, often a great deal. I would rather ask someone who's walked the path with a keen and open mind for advice on something - whatever it may be - than someone who has not.
Just my personal testimony: my wife and I have been married for 7 and 1/2 years and have been using NFP (Billings + Persona ovulation monitor) since the very beginning. Out of the hundreds of times we've had sex, we've only gotten pregnant twice, exactly when we planned to both times. In that same time, a friend of ours has gotten pregnant three times while on the pill. NFP works and it is loving.
You don't know how liberating it is to live chastely. I wouldn't say it's easy and many times in fact uncomfortable and challenging, but it is worth it.
@hoto551 NFP is a completely separate and nuanced topic in its own right. To your point - NFP actually does NOT go against procreation. I unfortunately, lack the ability to explain why this is the case. I hope Fr. Barron can comment or do a video on NFP!
@hoto551 "The limitless loving devotion to God, and the gift God makes of Himself to you, are the highest elevation of which the heart is capable; it is the highest degree of prayer. The souls that have reached this point are truly the heart of the Church."-St. Teresa Benedicta (Edith Stein).If you don't understand this, but insist on the letter of the Law, then you miss the point that the letter of the Law uninspired by the Spirit is dead.
@5355vbxjbj76rvn Nonsense! As I said before, you'd have a point if I were talking about sexual technique or "how to please your wife in bed." But I'm talking about the morality and spirituality of sex. If you follow your logic all the way down, you'd have to conclude that neither Jesus, nor the Buddha, nor Gandhi, nor the Dalai Lama would have anything valuable to say about human sexuality.
Hello Fr. Barron! Just a quick question... I'm not sure if you're aware that there's an account (here in TH-cam) with the name "wordonfirevideo2" is it really you guys? In other words, is it really you Fr. Barron behind this account? Or is it a fake one?
@zztstenglish I will have a look as you suggest. However I was simply using your quote"Childless heterosexual marriages......", above and showing that for this quote to be true there must exist marriages without children. Of course in practice we all know that a substantial fraction of married couple chose not to have children. Others can't because of medical reasons. If procreation was a condition of marriage, these couples wouldn't exist, but yet they do.So procreation cannot be a requirement.
1 Corinthians 6:12 “All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be enslaved by anything. "Go forth and multiply" did not preclude using logic to care for the off-spring. Teach the Gospel my brother
@wordonfirevideo also sexuality is a spiritual act in and of itself. Keep in mind that for millenia sex was worshiped as the holiest of acts. People belived it was a way to find nirvana in inner peace. Great sex can allow you to momentarily lose track of all the problems around you and even your sense of self and no only pure ecstasy for that moment. So can a virgin talk about morality sure, but as for the spirituality, you can only comment on what you've been told it is
@thejasonbeers Okay, friend, you'd have a point if I were talking about sexual technique, but there is no reason in the world that a non-sexually active person can't talk about the morality and spirituality of sex. And your analogy is no good. Are you really comparing "trying out" a variety of golf courses to "trying out" a variety of women?! I mean, that's pretty objectifying and abusive, don't you think?
Except that the term "their own business" has specific contexts. What people engage in privately, as long as no one is being harmed, is their own business, and no one else's. A person driving drunk is an entirely different context, and would be an entirely different consideration.
some issues were appointed to states as their domain. traditionally, this is the case of defining marriage and its licensure according to law. to suddenly now decide that it can be a federal issue is really over stepping the constitutional powers given to the federal govt. many issues do not belong on the federal level...regardless of amendments.
i'm not judging the state of anyone's soul. what i am saying is that as a society, we shouldn't stoop to the lowest denominator. further, i wasnt making this specific to one person, but a 'generic' comment on morals in society. that you feel the need to make it personal is a distraction from the real debate.
@karmacop911 This planet holds and can produce enough resources to comfortably sustain the world's entire population. It is not an over-populated world that is the problem, but rather the selfish disposition of so many who inhabit it.
I don't agree with not dialing down standards Father Barron. There is one particular teaching that the church teaches (I've been raised Catholic my entire life. I respect my faith and for the most part church teaching) that teaching is this (which happened to come up in my newsfeed tonight on a Catholic Facebook page I "For much of Christian History Virginity but not just virginity but the act of remaining free of any sexual experiences, remaining pure and chaste was regarded as the primary sign of a holy person's (especially women's) perfection" That teaching is one that has been taught to me in m own parish from the time I was 12 years old. I had always prided myself on my purity and chastity. I was not a girl who flirted with young men or older men, I was not one to date or to discuss sexual things the way that my peers did. I was "The Goody Two Shoes" I was ok with that. I was 14 when I was lured by a friends Father into his van, driven to a secondary location, sexually molested and later back at his home was 30 seconds away from being raped by him when mercifully his wife came home and frightened him off of me before he had the chance. The next morning walking into our Sunday school building to teach my 1st grade CCD class the amount of shame I felt due to the teaching above being something that I had been taught and which was ingrained in me since the age of 12, along with the teaching of St. Maria Goretti who I was taught was made a Saint because she fought off her molester and died protecting her purity, was enormous. Both my parish and the Steubenville Conferences in this regard made me feel like a failure and like I had done something wrong. By teaching the above teaching the church is teaching girls, young women and women that there is no distinction between giving away your purity (whether in marriage or not) willingly or having it stolen from you, that if you lose your virginity or purity that they are no longer holy they are no longer perfect in God's eyes. The teaching above Father Barron (with all due respect) is a teaching that frankly needs to be struck down. This teaching and the teaching which occurs within parishes and at Conferences like the Steubenville Conferences (which I have been present for and heard with my own ears) that tell young women, "If you wears those shorts that say "Juicy" or if you speak, act or behave in a certain way where a man becomes turned on by you that you are sending his soul to Hell" is perpetuating Rape Culture and the teaching of the loss of our purity means we are no longer holy is causing shame and anxiety for many Catholic females. Yes I DO think in this instance that dialing this teaching WAY down or getting rid of it completely IS in fact necessary to create a church that does not engage in the practice of fostering the sexual violence culture in our society and that does not teach girls and young women that their purity is the ONE designation of their holiness and that they have failed at being perfect in God's eyes if that designation disappears. The church in this instance is doing a grave disservice to half of it's flock.
you might find it interesting to know that consecrated virgins within the Church are still considered virgins as long as they have never WILLINGLY engaged in sexual activity. as in, I don't think the Church teaches that being a victim of a sexual crime is to be considered a stain on the victim's purity at all. I think of St Maria Goretti more as being a martyr who exercised forgiveness to a supernatural level... I mean, forgiving someone who sexually attacked you or someone you love... goes against human nature. yet we are still called to it in perfect love.
i think we are both aware that the united states was not/is not institutionalized either 'christian,' or 'atheist.' your question here assumes that you are correct in one of your two answers, when neither is correct.
The basis of our position is that we understand from our own experience how important it is as a teenager that our gay relationship have the same value as other peoples relationships and then when you find "The One" that relationship the same respect - let us ask you why you don't have the same high aspirations for our gay population as you do out hetrosexual ?
I actually understand what fr Barron means by this, to offer your body as a sacrifice. the Body, has to be pure in order to make the a sacrifice. But I have to say that what you find negative to homosexuals not only applies to them but any person' who has committed any type of sin. No ramblings or babblings. Just because you think its agains on type of person doesn't mean it is. Its just your pride is influencing your thinking negatively.
Actually, you seem to be the one to have missed the subtley. You say that the Catholic Church condemns sex outside of marriage, and that she also teaches that some unions do not constitute marriage (ture). But then you say that the Church has now presented a "no-win" for some people, presumably because it means that, effectively, they are being called to a life of chastity. If sex is not the highest good, then what is it about a chaste lifestyle--for anyone--that constitutes a "no-win'?
in reference to marriage, an amendment HAS NOT been made yet; and so it is still not part of the federal enumerated rights and powers to be used/dispensed by the federal govt.
i didnt say the courts wouldnt rule on it. i said they dont have that constitutional power. if you noticed, courts are legislating all kinds of things lately, which isnt suppose to be their constitutional jurisdiction. i stated it isnt a civil right in many places - referring to gay marriage.
The decision to maintain a negative stance on artificial contraception was made by Paul VI in his encyclical Humanae Vitae in 1968 against the majority opinion of a commission brought together to study the issue by John XIII. So I question the pope's judgment.
@MikeG4936 NFP does not go against procreation simply because it does not alter the fundamental nature of the sex act. NFP is simply not having sex when we're not prepared for the consequences. The only way NFP could be wrong would be if it's wrong not to have sex (which would be an interesting argument to make). At no point do you say "no" to the procreative aspects of sex.
How often within the ideal of marriage are expressions of love actually 'ideal' and not just 'inadequate expressions' ? Be honest :-) Jesus said we'd be 'like the angels' after this life. I wonder if Augustine would have reached that 'idea' - 'how late have I loved Thee,' without those countless inadequate expressions. Loving much 'cause he expressed inadequately - and 'sinned' much in that ever inadequate expression.. :)
@thejasonbeers Wow, I guess that St. Paul, the Buddha, Gandhi, and Jesus didn't know anything about spirituality. They had to be told about it by sexual ecstatics such as yourself.
No, many people try very hard to make their marriages work. Some do not, of course. But the fact is that not so long ago, a woman could not leave an abusive husband or miserable marriage, whereas her husband could abandon her whenever he wished (as did happen a lot. A lot of teenage unwed mothers were sent away from their families (like to the terrible Magdalene homes) as punishment for their 'sin', and were traumatized. Now they can stay in school and live good lives. Are you up on history?
Your answer is a non sequitur, or in legal speak, non-responsive. I want to know what you think. We all sin, but doesn't excuse our failings. What do you think about someone dedicating his life to a cause, not even religiously based? It might not be gratifying, but is it a good thing?
And yet and answer doesn't come... I'll break it down to yes-no questions so you can take baby steps with this: 1) Is a chaste lifestyle an alternative to being sexually active? 2) Is sex, in itself, the highest good?
@hoto551 (John 3:5) Jesus answered, "Truly, I tell you with certainty, unless a person is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the Kingdom of God." This is to be understood as written, and as you mature from concrete level interpretation to spiritual depth of awareness you understand from the fullness of the Heart from which goodness comes. You are missing utterly the mystery, the truth that opens up into truth ad iniinitum (Romans 11:33-36) and have sunk back into concrete literalism.
I think some people can get so wrapped up in a project that they can neglect their physical needs however for many it would be a short term event - we think long abstinence is a bit of a cop out - encouraging others to be celibate is cruel
Chastity can be intrusive and supernatural because of its demands. Because I believe in eternal life, I deny myself the pleasures of intimacy, as I don't have an object of love here to whom I would dedicate my life. You do know that there are many people who dedicate themselves to causes where they have to deny this element in their lives, right? Are they any the worse for it?
i understand you 'want' the same acceptance for your gay relationship, as others have for their heterosexual ones. The issue isnt really about what you or i want. It isnt a reduction to personal inclinations at all. The question is, what is really in the best interest of others, beyond my personal desires? the answer to that is: to be aligned towards the truth. It is self evident in the human person that a man and a woman share an inherent complementarity not possible in same sex relationships.
@hoto551 of course we offer them communion. "Let he who is with out sin throw the first stone." Are not people who do engage in homosexual actives, and those who have and perform abortions, in need of Gods mercy, even more, than those who don't? How could we be Christs church if we turned our back to them and told them that they are unworthy to be with us? "I have not come to call the righteous to repentance but sinners" Luke 5:32
@300WhiteKnights I agree. Father Barron, please explain to all us of why gay marriage is wrong. And please tell them that we are not a bunch of bigots. That their sin is no greater than my sin when I commit premarital sex or adultery for that matter or using artificial contraception.
Once again we remind you that the highest court in america have ruled 11 times that it is a civil right - that some states have not implemented that for homosexuals to marry is a matter soon to be resolved - it may be inconvenient for you to accept their authority which is another issue
What it all boils down to is the object of our love and conforming to it. If you believe in certain kinds of actions, nobody is going to convince you of otherwise. Yet, despite the culture and the era, homosexual "marriage" has never existed, homosexuality has and will, not making it right on its face. This is not a question of whether feels right--try telling that to someone addicted to whatever, but whether objectiviely it is. Nature is a pretty good place to start for determining that.
@27182818R No one in the Catholic Church is saying that a gay person has to take part in a heterosexual marriage... The Catholic Church actually states that people who have homosexual tendencies are NOT wrong or bad...
Most people would find the idea of anyone promoting the idea of chastity in other peoples personal lives intrusive & unnatural - we would find it ludicrous
That is the problem Fr. Barron. I agree with much of what you have said here. If you are right though it seems difficult to justify the church's position on gay marriage.
Aside from the excellent theological discourse, I watch these videos to calm down. Bishop Barron's measured way of speaking is helping my anxiety.
Agree completely!
@@daisykuchinad3624 I second this, after spending several months watching all hell unleashed on the world, watching Bishop Barron's videos are truly calming
@aislingquinntarot From Bishop Barron's excellent words to fully explain the churches and the Bible's stance on human sexuality, I feel that he was genuinely with compassion and kindness to reach every single one of us who may identify or in a crisis of identity regarding their own sexual nature that the NO that they often hear is not statements of rebuke, condemnation, forsakenment, rejection or abandonedment by God or the church.
Agree
I don’t have anxiety. But, it’s one of the reasons I listen, as well. Believe it or not, I listen while I lift weights! Most dudes are listening to hip hop, I’m listening to sermons! LOLOL!!!
"Sexual experience is not theoretical, but irreducibly personal."
Right there you've nailed it. Not only is it irreducibly personal, it's bound to intimacy, and therefore not relatable to trial and error analogies. Ideally sex is the means of a pure expression of love, not an ends to be worshiped in and of itself as you put it. When it's with the one you love and have committed your life to, you're inherently "playing at the masters".
Treating it recreationally traps you in the pitch-and-putt.
Bishop Robert Barron, you've got such a magnetic strength, and I am absolutely convinced that Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit speaks to me straightforward through your teachings. When I listen to you in the deepest of my heart I can feel the fire of the Holy Spirit speaking to me. You are so brilliant, even though there are many genius people in the history of life, the way you convey to me Jesus Christ presence, it all makes sense in my life. I can affirm without any doubts that your teachings represent the Jesus Christ I have always yearn for, this is something I have discerned and have arrived to this conclusion after many years of being disappointed and dissatisfied with many priests I met. I always respect them, because they are men of God, they have delivered their lives, committed to God, and they have a ministry, but their teachings and way of sharing me, the presence of Jesus Christ didn't satisfy me at all, kind of very archaical and out dated, too much parsimony and quoting the readings of the Bible but NOT making sense; without an anthropologist, philosophical, psychologist, politic, economic, emotional, cultural and holistic perspective. God has granted you with many natural gifts that you have educated and cultivated and for these and many other reasons, all your teachings make sense in my personal life. I thank God for your praiseworthy priesthood and wise apostolic work. May God grant me the miraculous blessing to become a member of your spiritual family, NOT because I deserve it, but because Jesus Christ loves me. Amen.
In response to all these people saying celibates have nothing valuable to say about sex, let me grant that for the sake of argument. Well, not all priests are virgins. Many have converted from a licentious lifestyle and would now happily echo everything Fr. Barron said in the video. So with that in mind, your argument has no legs to stand on because *many* people who *have* experienced sexual activity would propose *exactly* what is said in this video.
+Alex Wallo Just because someone has experienced sexual activity doesn't mean they have any authority to speak about another person's sexuality. I'm very curious about something... if other people are so wrong about sex, why is it such a big deal? If they're wrong, why do you need to be right? If someone is wrong, why is it even necessary to tell them at all? If you love someone, why try and change them? That is not love... that is fear.
+Loga Fixico Jesus said to repent. That is to change someone for the better. Why allow those you love to settle? People say they want the best for their loved ones. How is settling for sinful behavior the best? Why send your kids to school, then? Why discipline them? Just let them be themselves.
There are monetary consequences to the sexual immorality that has been practiced for decades. There seems to be a tremendous hostility towards marriage in society, and that threatens to deeply shock our infrastructure. No one is an island.
Loga Fixico letting someone live a destructive lifestyle is not loving. Have you ever asked someone engaging in sexual promiscuity if they are truly happy? I assure you, you'll scarcely hear yes. It's just like an analogy: if you saw someone eating rotten food and they seemed to be enjoying it, but you know that that way if eating food would be bad for their health and make them sick, would you let them know that what they're doing will make them unhappy and point them to a fridge stocked full of healthy food, that they may not like but will give them happiness? Or would you simply conclude that trying to change what they do would be unloving (which it wouldn't, of course, and shows complete indifference which is not love).
@@turtlenoheart Hello. I think it is the nature of love to desire the perfection/beafication of the beloved. If you love your child and he is mean you want him to become kind, if you love your friend and she is spiteful you want her to become gracious not because you say "eww, clean yourself so I don't have to deal with or see your ugliness" even though they can be hard to deal with. Rather you say "No that makes you less than what you are meant to be abd it breaks my heart because I desire to see you whole and beautiful."
My gosh, these videos are so great: 2017 and I keep watching all of them
Rafael Matias Same here! 2018 and still watching.
2020
2022 lol
An authoritative and simple way to understand our true beliefs! Not a moment repetitive or dogmatic, simply; Truth!
I think this is one of the best series on Catholicism I have ever seen. Thank you!
This is outstanding! Thank you Fr. Barron for this excellent insight. This is essential to understanding Catholic teaching.
I like it when you say "the Church."
It's okay! God bless you Fr.Barron!
Father Barron, you know you are speaking truth when you evoke such strong reactions.
Love his explanations!! Thanks Fr Barron.
Excellent exposition Father. We as a culture are almost never exposed to a thoughtful and enlightening understanding of our very natures and our relationship to love. We grasp the gross betrayals like love, and miss our own delusions.
Fr Barron, you analogy of the golf coach saying no to his student's bad golf swings reminds me of Christopher West's example of a piano teacher teaching a piano student. Thank you for this wonderful video.
One of the best responses to this issue I have seen!
Very nice, eloquent and timely!
Our views need correction and good teachers to lead us to God's wisdom and truth, thank you of holding up the high ideals in a world thats lost them.
Thanks lots Bishop Barron 👏 God bless you 🕊️✝️❤️
God bless you Father!.. your words made me think on myself and how I have lived my life so far :).. thanks and please continue spreading your insights in your channel
I'm delighted by your clarity. This does not mean a worship you ofcours , but it would be hard to be as good. May your teaching go 《viral》!
Um... Did I mention homosexuality even once in this video?!
Yes: " when it becomes what is not supposed to be..."
Right. And your own life, it's been that spotless that you are able to judge or even comment? Those without sin, never forget.
@carnrick Oh I don't know: how about "Go forth and multiply...!"
You're right. And belief is a matter of the will over the intellect-- so arguement is hopeless between two hearts that don't traverse the same plane and don't wish to.
@klausweasley Let's see here: which of us is not sharing the Good News?!
thank u Fr. Barron :)
Another TH-cam classic!
I completely agree. The Catholic Church is the ONLY body in the entire world that teaches what sex is. Sex is holy and used properly mimics the Trinitarian God but used improperly (and there are many ways to use it improperly) will lead to darkness of the soul and wound our hearts thereby leading us farther away from being able to really love the way God loves, which is our goal here on earth. I used to share the popular idea that the Catholic Church hates/condemns sex until I actually went to the Church's documents, doctrines, encyclicals and pastoral letters. In other words, most who hold the 'popular idea' don't really KNOW what the Catholic Church teaches and I was one of them. Now that I know, I wouldn't dream of going back to that very self-centered and distorted understanding of sex I used to have. It just leads to no good.
If you have that mindset then you think all pleasure is evil... Sell your computer and board up your windows! The snow is disgusting and hellish! The only white and good thing is God! GOD, I SAY!
Sex feels good because there's a large amount of nerves firing off during it, sex also makes babies through the natural functions of our bodies.
Contraceptives were created so you don't mistakenly create a biological life during sex.
It's pretty damn black and white.
I'll reply to the only part of your comment that really has substance (although it's flawed substance).
"If you have that mindset then you think all pleasure is evil."
You are telling me I think all pleasure is evil. How do you know that? Did I say that? My comment didn't even mention the topic of pleasure. Please back up your claim. Don't resort to childish and unintelligent sarcasm. It sounds like you are repeating popular ideas many people and certain circles like to launch to really shut down an intelligent conversation. It's become popular to misrepresent the opposing argument, ridicule it and frankly, lie about it to not be forced to do what any real debate needs to have, namely, intelligent, logical and sensical arguments.
I used sarcasm to make you feel like an idiot, and I succeeded. Whether or not you agree with why I did it doesn't matter.
I gave you the reasons why your idea of sex (especially if taught by a religion which has had incidents of child molesting in the church) was wrong, eat 'em and weep.
Devdraco you: If you have that mindset then you think all pleasure is evil..
Me: the fact is that you mis-read what pale was writing. he was saying that not all pleasure is evil. It simply needs to be in the right context.
Devdraco The Chuch has never taught that all pleasure is evil. Don't lie.
Oh wow, wonderful!!
@BalladoftheWindfish Well, all analogies limp. I would encourage the mutatis mutandis principle be applied here.
I encourage anyone with further questions about why the Catholic Church believes what it does about morality to study Pope John Paul II's "Theology of the Body" it is beautiful and inspiring and helped me understand my faith so much more clearly.
@karmacop911 I'm not for "unchecked reproduction."
@queerveganliberal Because that's not the only text in the Bible. You can also find Jesus' clear recommendation that those who can remain celibate should do so. You also have his own example and that of St. Paul.
Though I think many could benefit from your insights into that matter.
Lacking personal experience in many areas, including sexuality, does not disqualify one from engaging in an intelligent discussion of those issues, but personal experience does help, often a great deal. I would rather ask someone who's walked the path with a keen and open mind for advice on something - whatever it may be - than someone who has not.
Impart your beliefs to your children, teach them love patience kindness and understanding. What anyone else does is their business.
I agree with you. My priest actually was engaged and had a fiance before deciding to become a priest.
Just my personal testimony: my wife and I have been married for 7 and 1/2 years and have been using NFP (Billings + Persona ovulation monitor) since the very beginning. Out of the hundreds of times we've had sex, we've only gotten pregnant twice, exactly when we planned to both times. In that same time, a friend of ours has gotten pregnant three times while on the pill. NFP works and it is loving.
You don't know how liberating it is to live chastely. I wouldn't say it's easy and many times in fact uncomfortable and challenging, but it is worth it.
No I didn't know that zztstenglish, would be really interested to hear a video on it though.
@hoto551 NFP is a completely separate and nuanced topic in its own right. To your point - NFP actually does NOT go against procreation. I unfortunately, lack the ability to explain why this is the case. I hope Fr. Barron can comment or do a video on NFP!
As long as what anyone else does does not include disobeying laws, or bringing harm to anyone.
@karmacop911 So I make arguments and you tell me and my fellow Catholics to "die, die, die." And I'm the one who is stupid and insane?!
i dont judge anyone's soul. i can, and we all are allowed to, judge actions; whether they are natural and/or moral.
@BloodSweatTiers Very well said!
@hoto551 "The limitless loving devotion to God, and the gift God makes of Himself to you, are the highest elevation of which the heart is capable; it is the highest degree of prayer. The souls that have reached this point are truly the heart of the Church."-St. Teresa Benedicta (Edith Stein).If you don't understand this, but insist on the letter of the Law, then you miss the point that the letter of the Law uninspired by the Spirit is dead.
@5355vbxjbj76rvn Nonsense! As I said before, you'd have a point if I were talking about sexual technique or "how to please your wife in bed." But I'm talking about the morality and spirituality of sex. If you follow your logic all the way down, you'd have to conclude that neither Jesus, nor the Buddha, nor Gandhi, nor the Dalai Lama would have anything valuable to say about human sexuality.
Jesus warned us against "dialing down our ideals" as you put it, though he uses different words (Rev 3:15-16)
Hello Fr. Barron! Just a quick question... I'm not sure if you're aware that there's an account (here in TH-cam) with the name "wordonfirevideo2" is it really you guys? In other words, is it really you Fr. Barron behind this account? Or is it a fake one?
I didn't say that one had. Again, I stated that the U. S. Constitution did not initially address many issues, which is why amendments may be made.
Agreed.
that you find no dots to connect says more than i need to.
I think you can comment on it if you're celibate - but I do think it helps if you've been there.
@zztstenglish I will have a look as you suggest. However I was simply using your quote"Childless heterosexual marriages......", above and showing that for this quote to be true there must exist marriages without children. Of course in practice we all know that a substantial fraction of married couple chose not to have children. Others can't because of medical reasons. If procreation was a condition of marriage, these couples wouldn't exist, but yet they do.So procreation cannot be a requirement.
And contraception, abortion, the hook-up culture, etc.
1 Corinthians 6:12 “All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be enslaved by anything. "Go forth and multiply" did not preclude using logic to care for the off-spring. Teach the Gospel my brother
We understood you the first time
@wordonfirevideo also sexuality is a spiritual act in and of itself. Keep in mind that for millenia sex was worshiped as the holiest of acts. People belived it was a way to find nirvana in inner peace. Great sex can allow you to momentarily lose track of all the problems around you and even your sense of self and no only pure ecstasy for that moment. So can a virgin talk about morality sure, but as for the spirituality, you can only comment on what you've been told it is
What is your view on sexuality?
@thejasonbeers Okay, friend, you'd have a point if I were talking about sexual technique, but there is no reason in the world that a non-sexually active person can't talk about the morality and spirituality of sex. And your analogy is no good. Are you really comparing "trying out" a variety of golf courses to "trying out" a variety of women?! I mean, that's pretty objectifying and abusive, don't you think?
connect the dots if you can friend.
Except that the term "their own business" has specific contexts. What people engage in privately, as long as no one is being harmed, is their own business, and no one else's. A person driving drunk is an entirely different context, and would be an entirely different consideration.
@karmacop911 Is it for you to decide?
some issues were appointed to states as their domain. traditionally, this is the case of defining marriage and its licensure according to law. to suddenly now decide that it can be a federal issue is really over stepping the constitutional powers given to the federal govt. many issues do not belong on the federal level...regardless of amendments.
i'm not judging the state of anyone's soul. what i am saying is that as a society, we shouldn't stoop to the lowest denominator. further, i wasnt making this specific to one person, but a 'generic' comment on morals in society. that you feel the need to make it personal is a distraction from the real debate.
@karmacop911 This planet holds and can produce enough resources to comfortably sustain the world's entire population. It is not an over-populated world that is the problem, but rather the selfish disposition of so many who inhabit it.
This is take the Cross😇😇😇
I don't agree with not dialing down standards Father Barron. There is one particular teaching that the church teaches (I've been raised Catholic my entire life. I respect my faith and for the most part church teaching) that teaching is this (which happened to come up in my newsfeed tonight on a Catholic Facebook page I
"For much of Christian History Virginity but not just virginity but the act of remaining free of any sexual experiences, remaining pure and chaste was regarded as the primary sign of a holy person's (especially women's) perfection"
That teaching is one that has been taught to me in m own parish from the time I was 12 years old. I had always prided myself on my purity and chastity. I was not a girl who flirted with young men or older men, I was not one to date or to discuss sexual things the way that my peers did. I was "The Goody Two Shoes" I was ok with that.
I was 14 when I was lured by a friends Father into his van, driven to a secondary location, sexually molested and later back at his home was 30 seconds away from being raped by him when mercifully his wife came home and frightened him off of me before he had the chance. The next morning walking into our Sunday school building to teach my 1st grade CCD class the amount of shame I felt due to the teaching above being something that I had been taught and which was ingrained in me since the age of 12, along with the teaching of St. Maria Goretti who I was taught was made a Saint because she fought off her molester and died protecting her purity, was enormous. Both my parish and the Steubenville Conferences in this regard made me feel like a failure and like I had done something wrong. By teaching the above teaching the church is teaching girls, young women and women that there is no distinction between giving away your purity (whether in marriage or not) willingly or having it stolen from you, that if you lose your virginity or purity that they are no longer holy they are no longer perfect in God's eyes. The teaching above Father Barron (with all due respect) is a teaching that frankly needs to be struck down. This teaching and the teaching which occurs within parishes and at Conferences like the Steubenville Conferences (which I have been present for and heard with my own ears) that tell young women, "If you wears those shorts that say "Juicy" or if you speak, act or behave in a certain way where a man becomes turned on by you that you are sending his soul to Hell" is perpetuating Rape Culture and the teaching of the loss of our purity means we are no longer holy is causing shame and anxiety for many Catholic females.
Yes I DO think in this instance that dialing this teaching WAY down or getting rid of it completely IS in fact necessary to create a church that does not engage in the practice of fostering the sexual violence culture in our society and that does not teach girls and young women that their purity is the ONE designation of their holiness and that they have failed at being perfect in God's eyes if that designation disappears. The church in this instance is doing a grave disservice to half of it's flock.
you might find it interesting to know that consecrated virgins within the Church are still considered virgins as long as they have never WILLINGLY engaged in sexual activity.
as in, I don't think the Church teaches that being a victim of a sexual crime is to be considered a stain on the victim's purity at all.
I think of St Maria Goretti more as being a martyr who exercised forgiveness to a supernatural level... I mean, forgiving someone who sexually attacked you or someone you love... goes against human nature. yet we are still called to it in perfect love.
Rachel O'Grady free
i think we are both aware that the united states was not/is not institutionalized either 'christian,' or 'atheist.' your question here assumes that you are correct in one of your two answers, when neither is correct.
The basis of our position is that we understand from our own experience how important it is as a teenager that our gay relationship have the same value as other peoples relationships and then when you find "The One" that relationship the same respect - let us ask you why you don't have the same high aspirations for our gay population as you do out hetrosexual ?
The U. S. Constitution did not initially address many issues, which is why amendments may be made.
I actually understand what fr Barron means by this, to offer your body as a sacrifice. the Body, has to be pure in order to make the a sacrifice. But I have to say that what you find negative to homosexuals not only applies to them but any person' who has committed any type of sin. No ramblings or babblings. Just because you think its agains on type of person doesn't mean it is. Its just your pride is influencing your thinking negatively.
Actually, you seem to be the one to have missed the subtley. You say that the Catholic Church condemns sex outside of marriage, and that she also teaches that some unions do not constitute marriage (ture). But then you say that the Church has now presented a "no-win" for some people, presumably because it means that, effectively, they are being called to a life of chastity.
If sex is not the highest good, then what is it about a chaste lifestyle--for anyone--that constitutes a "no-win'?
in reference to marriage, an amendment HAS NOT been made yet; and so it is still not part of the federal enumerated rights and powers to be used/dispensed by the federal govt.
well jimmy, if you have it figured out, you certainly dont need me to comment to you on it.
i didnt say the courts wouldnt rule on it. i said they dont have that constitutional power. if you noticed, courts are legislating all kinds of things lately, which isnt suppose to be their constitutional jurisdiction. i stated it isnt a civil right in many places - referring to gay marriage.
Is that word in the first sentence of the transcript supposed to be "commonest"?
Is it supposed to read, "commonest complaints?"
The decision to maintain a negative stance on artificial contraception was made by Paul VI in his encyclical Humanae Vitae in 1968 against the majority opinion of a commission brought together to study the issue by John XIII. So I question the pope's judgment.
@MsKateB1 If the church is not saying there is anything bad or wrong about homosexuality, then why should they not be aloud to marry?
@wordonfirevideo But that was when there was only 2 people in the world. We have 7 billion now.
@MikeG4936 NFP does not go against procreation simply because it does not alter the fundamental nature of the sex act. NFP is simply not having sex when we're not prepared for the consequences. The only way NFP could be wrong would be if it's wrong not to have sex (which would be an interesting argument to make). At no point do you say "no" to the procreative aspects of sex.
How often within the ideal of marriage are expressions of love actually 'ideal' and not just 'inadequate expressions' ? Be honest :-) Jesus said we'd be 'like the angels' after this life. I wonder if Augustine would have reached that 'idea' - 'how late have I loved Thee,' without those countless inadequate expressions. Loving much 'cause he expressed inadequately - and 'sinned' much in that ever inadequate expression.. :)
@thejasonbeers Wow, I guess that St. Paul, the Buddha, Gandhi, and Jesus didn't know anything about spirituality. They had to be told about it by sexual ecstatics such as yourself.
No, many people try very hard to make their marriages work. Some do not, of course. But the fact is that not so long ago, a woman could not leave an abusive husband or miserable marriage, whereas her husband could abandon her whenever he wished (as did happen a lot. A lot of teenage unwed mothers were sent away from their families (like to the terrible Magdalene homes) as punishment for their 'sin', and were traumatized. Now they can stay in school and live good lives. Are you up on history?
Your answer is a non sequitur, or in legal speak, non-responsive. I want to know what you think. We all sin, but doesn't excuse our failings. What do you think about someone dedicating his life to a cause, not even religiously based? It might not be gratifying, but is it a good thing?
And yet and answer doesn't come...
I'll break it down to yes-no questions so you can take baby steps with this:
1) Is a chaste lifestyle an alternative to being sexually active?
2) Is sex, in itself, the highest good?
@hoto551 (John 3:5) Jesus answered, "Truly, I tell you with certainty, unless a person is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the Kingdom of God." This is to be understood as written, and as you mature from concrete level interpretation to spiritual depth of awareness you understand from the fullness of the Heart from which goodness comes. You are missing utterly the mystery, the truth that opens up into truth ad iniinitum (Romans 11:33-36) and have sunk back into concrete literalism.
I think some people can get so wrapped up in a project that they can neglect their physical needs however for many it would be a short term event - we think long abstinence is a bit of a cop out - encouraging others to be celibate is cruel
You're a golfer! Wow! So am I!
Cool
Chastity can be intrusive and supernatural because of its demands. Because I believe in eternal life, I deny myself the pleasures of intimacy, as I don't have an object of love here to whom I would dedicate my life. You do know that there are many people who dedicate themselves to causes where they have to deny this element in their lives, right? Are they any the worse for it?
i understand you 'want' the same acceptance for your gay relationship, as others have for their heterosexual ones. The issue isnt really about what you or i want. It isnt a reduction to personal inclinations at all. The question is, what is really in the best interest of others, beyond my personal desires? the answer to that is: to be aligned towards the truth. It is self evident in the human person that a man and a woman share an inherent complementarity not possible in same sex relationships.
@hoto551 of course we offer them communion. "Let he who is with out sin throw the first stone." Are not people who do engage in homosexual actives, and those who have and perform abortions, in need of Gods mercy, even more, than those who don't? How could we be Christs church if we turned our back to them and told them that they are unworthy to be with us? "I have not come to call the righteous to repentance but sinners" Luke 5:32
@300WhiteKnights I agree. Father Barron, please explain to all us of why gay marriage is wrong. And please tell them that we are not a bunch of bigots. That their sin is no greater than my sin when I commit premarital sex or adultery for that matter or using artificial contraception.
thats not what the U.S. constitution says. the u.s. constitution simply says the state may not institute a state church of any kind.
Once again we remind you that the highest court in america have ruled 11 times that it is a civil right - that some states have not implemented that for homosexuals to marry is a matter soon to be resolved - it may be inconvenient for you to accept their authority which is another issue
What it all boils down to is the object of our love and conforming to it. If you believe in certain kinds of actions, nobody is going to convince you of otherwise. Yet, despite the culture and the era, homosexual "marriage" has never existed, homosexuality has and will, not making it right on its face. This is not a question of whether feels right--try telling that to someone addicted to whatever, but whether objectiviely it is. Nature is a pretty good place to start for determining that.
@27182818R No one in the Catholic Church is saying that a gay person has to take part in a heterosexual marriage... The Catholic Church actually states that people who have homosexual tendencies are NOT wrong or bad...
Most people would find the idea of anyone promoting the idea of chastity in other peoples personal lives intrusive & unnatural - we would find it ludicrous
That is the problem Fr. Barron. I agree with much of what you have said here. If you are right though it seems difficult to justify the church's position on gay marriage.
perhaps you should re-read what i wrote, then comment. thanks