Lead Rope Soloing with two REVOs and two ropes. WHY, WHAT & HOW. Episode 4 - CLIMBING

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 66

  • @onefulltimeequivalent1230
    @onefulltimeequivalent1230 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    the future is now! beautiful filming, sound design, pacing. I am in awe... the best thing is how the REVO handling sounds in this video, so satisfying!

  • @deanhart8154
    @deanhart8154 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Brilliant! Great problem solving, I’ve seen nothing close to your method. Shocked that climbers question using two ropes. Also shocked that many have no awareness of mitigating attachment issues. Please drink more beers for me and save the rubber stoppers, I haven’t seen those in Canada. Dean

  • @keithscholey651
    @keithscholey651 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice. Thanks. Some really helpful technical details.

  • @andicolera3922
    @andicolera3922 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Impressive video. Love your creative way of approaching techniques in lead rope solo climbing. Looks all very solid and thought through.

  • @SebastianUminski
    @SebastianUminski ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you fort this! I really like your home made little inventions. ❤

  • @NPC-fl3gq
    @NPC-fl3gq ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I like your harness mods.
    I mod mine so I'm always looking for new ideas.

  • @coryupton669
    @coryupton669 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    why did you duct tape one side of the revos? 1:35

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @coryupton669 I do this so as to prevent the REVOs from locking off involuntarily during the lead climb when moving very closely to the rock. The duct tape prevents the nose from catching on the rock but will rip in case of a fall (and even if it didn't, the REVO would still lock off, there are two locking 'modes' as you probably know).

  • @jansveen
    @jansveen ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice. Need to drink some beers as well😂🎉❤

  • @ChristianBehlen-fz4uz
    @ChristianBehlen-fz4uz 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    @andreastrunz2066
    Thanks a lot for sharing your redundant flow method!!! I am so happy with it and climbed multiple very nice routes not far from my limit 🤗 still feeling confident and save.
    I did some modifications of course. Some I liked and I am sticking with it (Revo+Grigri for higher grade of redundancy aka red. due to diversity), some I went back to your approach (constant fig. 8 knot as end knot and const. funnels -> very bad for abseiling & emergency retreat).
    But two things I would like to know from you still:
    1. is there any documentation about the redundant activation of the revo? I just dont want to ductape it until I really do understand the mechanism. Of course I successfully activated the mechanism while holding the „nose“ down. But I really need to understand.
    2. would be interested in your method of seconding. I am currently trying out different methods of „Treppenaufstieg“ aka „ropewalk“ or „two-leg-jumaring“. In the climbing gym it seems like using two micro-trax, a foot ascendender and a bungee-cord while holding the rope directly with hands is fine and great, also because hand and feet are able to „obertake“ themselves . But on the rock my experience is you need jumars to protect your hands from not getting injured and pinched. What is your experience here?
    Best wishes :)
    Chris

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thank you, Christian!
      Great to hear this.
      Regarding the 'second level locking mechanism': This video shows it quite well, starting at min. 1'10": th-cam.com/video/nQ2agrKnNZg/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
      Around min. 1'25", you'll see the second scenario, where the 'nose' cannot move upwards freely and thus the excentric shoe cannot move past the 'nose's' bulge. So, either your fall's force will rip the duct tape and you'll see the REVO locked by the nose in the upper position, or if the tape were stronger than that fall's force, then the REVO would be locked by the excentric shoe that cannot pass the nose's bulge.
      Does this make sense to you?
      Regarding seconding: I have only been using this method on multipitch climbs that I want to lead and second freely. No jumaring on such LRS climbs so far. I like the fact of not having to change anything in the setup from leading, abseiling to seconding. Of course, you could jumar back up on one rope and leave one REVO on the other rope as a backup. Aid climbers will be a better source for information on the best jumaring techniques though. :-) Cheers! Andreas

    • @ChristianBehlen-fz4uz
      @ChristianBehlen-fz4uz 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @andreastrunz2066
      Thanks so much for the fast answer 🤗
      Yeah! The video answers all my questions about functional behaviour 🙈 Of course I revised this video before my purchase… But after I did my first experience with it, I was simply wondering about some aspects… But now everything makes sense… Also why it feels like you have to release tension on climbers side after catching a fall dynamically with rope slip but break locks at the same time - while „nose“ is not able to move due to tight break side.
      Really ingenious device! But I do understand why it was never successfull at the end 😢 Apperance not as confidence inspiring as grigri for example, only nerds are willing and able to understand the working principle and its benefits, and even for nerds some datails will never be understood, i think… And my personal experience after sport belay: also not my sport device because grigri is more comfy in hangdoging and projecting ;) but anyways such a great device - so happy to own one 🤗 And best probs for the engineering! To be honest I have drawn a scetch for a device maybe 10 years ago looking almost the same. My idea was also to have a bedirectional device alowing dynamic rope slip and having dead-man function… the only difference in the idea was the principle of it. The plan was building a fluid mechanical break (turbo / retarder / converter transmission…) slowing the climber down to an acceptable constant descending speed. But I think the centrifugal lock is the better option for such a compact and cheap design anyways. Also seen in the petzl asap and the sp.
      Yes, I do understand your way of seconding as a climb… and until now this was my approach as well. But as I would like to go big (lenght and grade), I think I have to find the fastest and most energy saving method for seconding 🤗 and yes, industrial / tree climbers are the most promissing consultants here… meanwhile I got some inspiration from an first ascender and a sports photographer today 🤗
      Yeah, again I want to say thanks for your work and maybe we will see each other in the mountains some time ;)
      Cheers
      Chris

    • @ChristianBehlen-fz4uz
      @ChristianBehlen-fz4uz 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Btw… the „second level locking“ is actually more first level :D

    • @ChristianBehlen-fz4uz
      @ChristianBehlen-fz4uz 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @andreastrunz2066
      Hi again,
      I just realised a possible danger if blocking the nose of Revo with tape… as the nose is also activating the steel wire for holding the rope tight, the rope is able to slip through the grooves of the wheel even if the wheel is locking… this may be a bigger concern as the rope diameter used is closer to the 8.5mm (device rating: 8.5-something).

    • @auftriib
      @auftriib 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@ChristianBehlen-fz4uz Thank you for your attentive thoughts! Two points calm my nerves in this regard:
      1. The Duct Tape rips or stretches enough even through a static hang (I weigh 75kg). If you only use one or two slim strips of Duct Tape, I really don't see a chance of it resisting a fall.
      2. If I remember correctly, the steel wire hasn't got a vital function for the REVO to block or not, but rather it was an answer for it to comply with the maximum slipping distance of the Norm EN 15151-1. Without the steel wire, in some cases the slippage was beyond that maximum, but not necessarily on thinner ropes - it occured rather on the stiffer ropes that produced kind of a whip lash. Personally, I am less worried about rope slippage. We are talking of a norm test fall of an 80kg steel weight producing almost a factor 2 fall. But again, due to point 1. above, all this is rather theory.

  • @aelena74
    @aelena74 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you Andreas for all these details!!! A long-awaited video 😉 but a worthwhile waiting 👍🏻
    Double fishermen knot for tying the dyneema cord?

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you, @aelena74. Yes exactly, double fisherman knot. The cord has a dyneema core and a PA sheath.

  • @voodoowombat
    @voodoowombat ปีที่แล้ว

    Who makes your red pack? The roll top + duct tape is a clever system for rope organization!

  • @crookergg4862
    @crookergg4862 ปีที่แล้ว

    great video. I wonder what the function of the micro traxion is? were you using them? If they fail to lock, do the teeth damage the rope?

  • @allaprima
    @allaprima 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Wow, so much to say, amazing footage. But how do you walk around all day with balls of steel?

  • @allaprima
    @allaprima 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Can you please elaborate why or when this would be safer than a single rope using upright (modified) Gri Gri? Love your method but don’t have 2 auto belay devices. Ps I use backup knots , but climb below my limit to be safe.

    • @allaprima
      @allaprima 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      *self-camming, not auto belay *devices😂

  • @devinsupera
    @devinsupera ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Do you use the two revo's for the redundancy of the catch mechanism in case of a rope slip/break failure or is it more for the redundancy of having two ropes or both? What would be your biggest concern using one revo?

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  ปีที่แล้ว

      The two. Please check out this series' first episode about the WHY: th-cam.com/video/Df0o2Kk2UkU/w-d-xo.html

  • @vilho4649
    @vilho4649 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Top notch stuff and you only have 200 subscribers 😅

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  ปีที่แล้ว

      Haha, no need to promote my channel. Just sharing my niche method for a niche discipline within climbing. :-)

  • @birchfie
    @birchfie ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice system. What brand of ropes are those? And, are they ideal for your system? Thanks

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      These are rather cheap 8.5mm Tendon half ropes. I haven't done any systematic testing of different half ropes. Except for Edelrids Protect Line (with Aramid fibers in their sheaths which cause too much friction in the REVO and can actually fail in a norm fall), the REVO has been tested with various ropes available on the market and I would feel comfortable using any standard 8.5mm dynamic half rope from the market, like Edelrid Kestrel or Beal Opera.

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ideally, I would test a rope with the REVO in a couple of hard falls (with a backup) to see if it remains without traces on the sheath. That helps me to feel safe on bigger climbs afterwards.

  • @novadea1643
    @novadea1643 ปีที่แล้ว

    Interesting. I was hoping you'd have gone more into your reasoning aside from "the redundant method", I'd guess it's to try avoid the possible repetitive unlocking? Are you using twin/dual ropes or two singles? A thing I noticed which I'm sure you were fully aware and it was easy enough, but at the end when you climbed above the anchor to free the carabiner you risked a >1 fall factor to your PAS, which seems to be a daisy chain so static, that'd most likely leave you crippled at best.
    If you're going to spend the money for two REVOs etc. to go soloing then I'd highly recommend also throwing in a PAS with dynamic rope like the Petzl Connect Adjust.

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you @novadea1643 .
      Have you checked my other videos of this series? There's more about the WHY and also the gear used (half ropes, 8.5mm, but other types may work as well).
      Regarding the PAS: This is a basic rule in my eyes (not to risk a fall into your PAS of whatever type, ever). Personally, I see one rather hypothetical advantage of the Connect Adjust and one practical disadvantage for my personal use, that's why I stick to the looped daisy chain (works better for me for clipping the bag onto it when stacking the ropes).

    • @novadea1643
      @novadea1643 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@andreastrunz2066 Yes I did check out a bit of the other videos after making the comment but it was already late so didn't have time to watch them fully. Thank you for the answers, especially regarding the use of daisy chain as PAS. It's a very good rule of thumb to never risk falling on your PAS (of course accidents do happen) and indeed assumed you're fully aware of all the risks involved and have a good reason for using a daisy chain etc.. The Connect Adjust suggestion was meant more as a general "if you're thinking of doing this, might also want to consider getting a PAS with dynamic rope" than specifically at you, thou granted anyone that would benefit from that suggestion probably shouldn't be thinking about lead soloing with any kind of setup 🤔.
      Thank you for the in depth explanation and demonstration of your setup, safe sendings💪.

  • @1STstream
    @1STstream ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Felt like I just watched this video in one single breath ^^. Awesome!
    From time to time I practice top-rope-soloing, and I really enjoy it. I would love to try multi-pitch lead-rope-solo, but It feels like current device market is very limited on the options, it is really sad how there are so few alternatives to the Silent Partner device for this kind of climbing (with REVO and Gri-Gri being the only other options pretty much).
    Question: what size and length of rope are you using in this video (they seem heavy) and how do your ropes handle falls on double REVOs, are there any signs of damage to the ropes, do they twist? And, did you modify your double REVOs in any way to prepare for this kind of climbing? Also, I didn't notice it in this video, but do you fixate the ropes on quickdraws with some kind of rubberband or you are not securing them at all?

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Thank you, @1STstream.
      Regarding your questions: Please check out the other videos from this series. Should answer three of your questions.
      Yes I have fallen on this setup. No twisting, no damage to the ropes' sheath so far. There are reports of really hard (close to factor 2) falls where the single rope got damaged inside the locked REVO.
      With this setup I see ways of handling situations with a high risk of a hard fall (half rope technique, separating the two strands or providing some slack on only one rope to have some energy absorbed by the first rope's stretch and then the 'fresh' second rope).
      I haven't tested such techniques in real life yet; I mainly use this setup for easier long routes.

    • @RickyHarline
      @RickyHarline ปีที่แล้ว

      The Eddy and Taz Lov and El Mudo are all acceptable solutions that in many ways far surpass the Silent Partner in terms of functionality.

    • @Sierranite
      @Sierranite ปีที่แล้ว

      @@RickyHarlineyes but the Revo is the only device that will lock in an inverted upside down fall.

    • @RickyHarline
      @RickyHarline ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Sierranite I've used it quite a bit for LRS, it's nice but rapping on it sucks as does following on it. Makes for a great secondary device IMO but I want more functionality out of my primary.

  • @emilianorosso1113
    @emilianorosso1113 ปีที่แล้ว

    What do you think of using instead of 2 doubles a single long (3 homologations) used as a double from below with one head fixed to the harness and the other to the revo thunder to climb with a single revo? In this case the rope must always slide. Do you think it's sustainable?

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you @emilianorosso1113 for bringing up this idea. I am not sure, though, if I understand it completely. Would you have to create a loop? I mean would the rope have to be directed through a karabiner at the belay?

    • @emilianorosso1113
      @emilianorosso1113 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@andreastrunz2066 I have a picture for you but I can't post it here . Have you a facebook account? Thanks.

    • @ChristianBehlen-fz4uz
      @ChristianBehlen-fz4uz 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Sorry, I am not sure I do understand your setup right… But if I do, I cant imagine a worse system 🙈 …
      As I understand you want to attach one of the ends of your single rope to your harnes, loop the rope through all quick-draws, the last belay and back to you through all quickdraws again, and then in your revo!? This would become the rope drag nightmare. And safety… no redundancy at all: single rope cut-> fall to ground; revo fails-> fall to the ground
      Maybe I did not understand… but what i understand 🙈🙈🙈

  • @kangdanlin
    @kangdanlin ปีที่แล้ว

    Do you feel safe with the Revo? Did you fall on it? How was the rope after the fall?

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes I feel safe, especially having two REVOs on two separate ropes. Never seen any signs of damage on my ropes after my falls. I don't see many realistic scenarios that could result in forces greater than the ones from the EN 15151-1 norm testing. Do you?

    • @kangdanlin
      @kangdanlin ปีที่แล้ว

      i did one test with 10 mm beal rope. not a big fall, but it didnt go very well, and the rope was damaged. i never trust Revo , ever

  • @stuart9587
    @stuart9587 ปีที่แล้ว

    is this in north carolina? the trestle?

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  ปีที่แล้ว

      No it's in Eastern Switzerland, St. Gallen. Wanted to film on a multi pitch route in the Alpstein, but it was all wet on that day.

    • @stuart9587
      @stuart9587 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@andreastrunz2066 gotcha! looks exactly like a climb here in the states.

    • @christianvogt8582
      @christianvogt8582 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@andreastrunz2066Wo in SG ist dieser Brückenpfeiler? Würde das gerne auch einmal klettern.

  • @Haziq29
    @Haziq29 ปีที่แล้ว

    Did you tie backup knots before the cache loops? Can't seem to see it the video. Or is it unnecessary with this setup?

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      No I don’t use backup knots. The quest for a setup that doesn’t require backup knots for me to feel safe was the actual motivation and reason for this method.
      For me, backup knots were the main ‚flow killers‘.

    • @Haziq29
      @Haziq29 ปีที่แล้ว

      @Andreas Trunz fair point! I absolutely agree that it's a flow killer. Great video btw! Hope to see more contents like this.

  • @michelpognante3934
    @michelpognante3934 ปีที่แล้ว

    On ne voit pas la fonction du Evo dans une chute , dommage .

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  ปีที่แล้ว

      Oui il en existent plusieurs vidéos sur TH-cam qui montrent le fonctionnement lors d'une chute. Mais je vais filmer une chute et le montrer ici dès que possible.

    • @michelpognante3934
      @michelpognante3934 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@andreastrunz2066 merci+++++++++

  • @coryupton669
    @coryupton669 ปีที่แล้ว

    He never uses the micro traxx. why does he have them?

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @coryupton669 the MicroTraxions are my cache loop managers. Please check out the rest of this video tutorial series for more details on that. The route in this video here was too short for them to come into play (usually I need them after about 20m of climbing).

  • @ernsthachleitner9393
    @ernsthachleitner9393 ปีที่แล้ว

    did you ever had a lead fall with this setup?

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Yes I have taken falls. We can take some falls on camera next time we get to film some more climbing sequences.

  • @pie8882
    @pie8882 ปีที่แล้ว

    why is rope being pulled through while climbing? especially at the end when clipping the anchors it seems like someone is belaying you and your explanation of the system simply ends when you start climbing? I don't mean to be rude, I just want to understand why you quit giving a detailed explanation after the basics of the set up on your harness, and neglect the twin ropes and counterweight parts of your setup. I understand lead rope soloing is the dark arts of climbing, but I feel as if this video is dangerous to the general populous as it creates an untrue expectation of safety in doing so. Also what the hell were you talking about with the duct taped micro traxtions to your harness??

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  ปีที่แล้ว

      @pie8882 thanks for pointing out questions that may arise when watching this episode alone. Or did you watch the other episodes (1-3) as well? Those should answer your questions. If not, please get back to me and I'll see how I can explain better.

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  ปีที่แล้ว

      My filmmaker friend and I thought it'd be better to split the content into six episodes since there's so many facets to the method.
      What we didn't cover is the basics of LRS (backfeeding, cache management etc.), there's so much content out there on those already.
      Maybe there's a way of linking the individual episodes to each other so people don't take any of them as a standalone message.

    • @andreastrunz2066
      @andreastrunz2066  ปีที่แล้ว

      And no, there's no belayer of course. :-)
      Just my filmmaker friend and me. The spot wasn't ideal for filming as mentioned in the description. Hope we can deliver an update from a real multi pitch wall.