As someone who's relatively new to the world of multi-pitch, I have found your videos extremely helpful and have implemented a lot of your techniques and advice on my climbs. Just wanted to say thank you and keep up the good work!
2:40 a great tip here is that sometimes it is more efficient to just untie your figure of 8 and switch ends of the rope. This way you don't have to do the pancake flip and risk tangles at weird belays. Just make sure to use your personal anchor or other gear to go into the anchor direct before you untie your figure of 8.
Nice trick... and it might be the best option at a weird belay. But I think that's a very bad idea in general. Besides requiring a PAS/cowtail/quickdraws to go in direct, untying/re-tying multiple times adds unnecessary risk of getting the sequence (and maybe the knot) wrong. It might even introduce a new tangle. That risk is multiplied by the number of pitches. Only do it once for the rap if not walking off.
I've always scooped the lap coil, threaded a shoulder length sling under the coil, and binerd it. Then when it has to be handed off, I just un hook it from my gear loop to theirs. Am I missing something? I'm not sure I'm comfortable with any regular procedure that incorporates untying from the system.
At 7:55, dont underestimate the danger in this position. Its crucial to tie an air clove onto that upper carabiner. If you tie a clove with the handshake method there is a moment where the atc is disengage and a fall would be devastating.
You should twist one strand of the sling like you're making a sliding X before tying the girth hitch masterpoint, in case it loosens and one strand comes unclipped from the anchor, it can slide through the hitch but you'll still be clipped into the sling.
This is a really good point. I just tested the girth hitch with one side failing and it came undone. I'm a bit confused on how to incorporate the sliding x into the master pt
Great video Jason! Cool tip on girth hitching the krab when you just have a sling. Had to use one a couple times and ended up cloving both sides and putting 2 knots to reduce shock load. Girth hitch seems way faster!
How does block leading brings about less of a need to trade gear at belays? Because if I've lead the pitch, and have anything less than 1/2 of the pieces still with me at the belay, then most of the gear is with my second. So I'll have to retrieve that gear. IME, I typically have ~1/3 or 1/4 of my pieces left with me. Which makes swapping leads MORE efficient for trading gear, since you follower has most of the gear when he gets to the belay. Maybe some people bring lots of pieces than I do? The way I see it, if I end up with most of my gear still with me at most belays, then I'm bringing more gear than I need to. But at any rate, it seems to me this point is at beast a wash between block/swapping. Or something I'm not getting right here? Maybe depends on types of climb? E.g. sustained technical pitches will bring more of a need to protect, whereas more alpine style routes with lots of easy ground that allows really spaced out pieces?
Yeah, I think you are correct on all fronts. Most of the climbs I do on the east coast have shorter pitches and as a leader, I don't place much to begin with, so I still have the majority of the rack. However, out west, when I do pitches on order of 160-200 feet, I end up placing the majority as you said and then it's probably more efficient to swap leads... until you realize you might lead twice as fast as your partner ;-)
Awesome content! I am curious about the use of non locking carabiners at the anchors. I was shown to always use locking carabiners for most or all points on the anchor/belay. I am loving this stuff though! So helpful for a learning climber.
Locking carabiners should be used if there is more risk... usually in a single pitch scenario when you are setting something up for multiple people to climb on and you won't see the anchors. In multipitch, there are only a couple of people climbing and you ALWAYS see the anchor so nonlockers are generally accepted on the individual anchor points. Now then, on cloves, belay devices and anything attached directly to a person off a master point: LOCKERS.
@@summitseekersexperience That helps a ton. Building up my first rack, lockers add up in a hurry especially for multi pitch scenarios. It’s good to know when I am in view of the anchor or belay station that two snap gates are acceptable. Keep up this content! I’ve watched pretty much all of your videos. I love it and recommend your channel to friends. Cheers from Colorado!
Hi! Your videos are great and I am a new subscriber! Do you have any videos that show this process with another climber? I would be leading all of the pitches and just need a review of an efficient way to transition pitches with me pretty much guiding them through everything.
Hi Kayce! Alternating is basically the leader switches out every other pitch. So I lead one, you lead one, I lead one, you lead one and so on. Block leading is where I would lead like 3 in a row and then you would lead 3 in a row (blocks of pitches). The reason block leading is typically faster is that we don't have to transfer the gear every single pitch. If I were leading a block, every time you came up as the follower I would only have to get the pieces from you that I had placed which is a lot faster than transferring over the entire rack. Additionally, we could strategize about who is better in what pitches which would lead to faster climbing. This takes a little homework, but can lead to ultimately a faster climb. Hope that helps.
@@summitseekersexperience makes sense. I was thinking that every piece of gear would be placed by the leader for some reason. If that was the case then alternating would be faster. But I get it now, thanks!
Hey Jason, this was very helpful, I have a question for you, do we need 2 120cm slings since the follower is clove hitching into the quad, therefore need a second quad when you get to the next anchor ?
Between you and your partner you should definitely have multiple things to build anchors with. I have typically 2 X 240 cm slings and then 2 X 120 cm slings and between that I can cover all scenarios, event when I forget to get my anchor material back from my partner. You can always do a girth hitch MP if you forget a bunch of times in a row with an alpine draw.
Great overview of different options at the belay - organized and easy to follow. Some of your speed tips though.... Focusing on cams, for instance. The most important thing for speed is to not break up pitches and if you are mainly placing cams, you're going to run out (or have an insanely heavy and expensive rack). The point about not extending your pieces is, I'm sorry, irresponsible. Many beginners don't understand how troublesome and dangerous zig-zagging is and this video could easily encourage bad practice. Who extends when it's unnecessary?
Thanks for the feedback Simon. In my experience with (I use a double rack of cams and a set of nuts). I'm able to do a lot of pitches quickly as about half the anchor stations have bolted anchors. I think if you are doing a route that has NO bolted anchors, I agree with you, you may need to place nuts or something of that nature (I did that this weekend in NC on a hard route where I needed to place a lot AND the anchor stations had to be built)... So I placed nuts, which is fine, but on easy 5.7 or whatever, having the mindset of placing cams over nuts is always something to think about for speed. Thanks for the compliment on the video!
@@summitseekersexperience Yeah, partly bolted routes are quite different - just the belays speed up the game a lot. But - let's say easy 5.7: you're typically going to run out the rope on every pitch. A dozen or so pieces would mean an average of 4-5m between pieces, so you'll have to climb with the knowledge that a fall will typically hurt or kill you (5.7 is mostly really scary, with lots of stuff to hit and loose rock potential). A dozen pieces plus a belay or two is 14-18 pieces, so unless you have excellent gear beta, you're going to have to carry a ton of expensive hardware. Just practice nut placement so you're faster. If your time savings are really significant, you probably just need more practice. Oh, and don't thread your slings, just throw them over your shoulder.
And I'll stand by my comment about extension. Zig-zagging is a common problem for inexperienced leaders and I encourage you to take this video down, despite most of it being really good stuff.
I’m surprised you think that block leading is more efficient. Flipping the rope (or even two ropes, if you use half ropes) is always a hassle. On well protected multi pitch routes where you climb with an appropriate number of quick draws the gear handover should be much faster with alternate leading. Most of the quick draws will end up on the route and the follower will pick them up “automatically”.
Yeah... I think a lot of it is personal preference and climbing style. No doubt flipping two ropes is a pain, totally agree... but with a single partner and if you are flaking rope at your feet, I've found that pancake flip is 2 seconds and pretty successful. I don't place much gear when I climb unless it's hard so that also contributes to this line of thinking for me personally. Definitely can see how if you are placing more, alternating would make more sense.
I had the same question as the first commenter and I think the reason is that as an American you equate multi pitch and trad. I come from France and as of now have done all my multi pitch there and always on sports route where no trad gear were used and I completely agree with the first commenter in that case so much easier to alternate. In particular I’d like I have often experienced in places like the Verdon gorge you don’t have the luxury to flake at your feet but you put the rope on your personal anchor as you are in a hanging belay most of the time . Also we tend to use double ropes even with just two climbers as we need long rappels and it is helpful with drag
I have put it on some and not on some... I haven't settled in yet to what makes sense long term because in general it doesn't seem to impact view count at all and it takes an extra 30 minutes or so in editing to do.
Oh my. 2 pieces on a trad anchor? Quad on trad anchor? Nah. Block leads quicker? Belayer has all the gear? Pancake flip a hanging belay? Re-flake the rope? Nah. Swing baby!
As someone who's relatively new to the world of multi-pitch, I have found your videos extremely helpful and have implemented a lot of your techniques and advice on my climbs. Just wanted to say thank you and keep up the good work!
For sure and will do!!!
2:40 a great tip here is that sometimes it is more efficient to just untie your figure of 8 and switch ends of the rope. This way you don't have to do the pancake flip and risk tangles at weird belays. Just make sure to use your personal anchor or other gear to go into the anchor direct before you untie your figure of 8.
Dude, love that idea. I'm going to use that.
I don’t know why this never occurred to me before. It’s so obvious!
Nice trick... and it might be the best option at a weird belay. But I think that's a very bad idea in general. Besides requiring a PAS/cowtail/quickdraws to go in direct, untying/re-tying multiple times adds unnecessary risk of getting the sequence (and maybe the knot) wrong. It might even introduce a new tangle. That risk is multiplied by the number of pitches. Only do it once for the rap if not walking off.
I've always scooped the lap coil, threaded a shoulder length sling under the coil, and binerd it. Then when it has to be handed off, I just un hook it from my gear loop to theirs.
Am I missing something? I'm not sure I'm comfortable with any regular procedure that incorporates untying from the system.
@@ianmcnulty4251 BINGO !
At 7:55, dont underestimate the danger in this position. Its crucial to tie an air clove onto that upper carabiner. If you tie a clove with the handshake method there is a moment where the atc is disengage and a fall would be devastating.
been watching your vids for a while and they've been tremendously useful, not sure why I hadn't subscribed until now. Subbed!
I appreciated the improvised anchor techniques! Super helpful. Thank you!
For Sure!
You should twist one strand of the sling like you're making a sliding X before tying the girth hitch masterpoint, in case it loosens and one strand comes unclipped from the anchor, it can slide through the hitch but you'll still be clipped into the sling.
th-cam.com/video/UMuCkC3jshA/w-d-xo.html
This is a really good point. I just tested the girth hitch with one side failing and it came undone. I'm a bit confused on how to incorporate the sliding x into the master pt
Standard practice for sure . I cant believe this AMGA cert'ed Guide did not do this !
Great video Jason! Cool tip on girth hitching the krab when you just have a sling. Had to use one a couple times and ended up cloving both sides and putting 2 knots to reduce shock load. Girth hitch seems way faster!
Thanks man!
useful, clear and concise, thank you :D
the visual demonstrations really help
No worries, you got it!
Great video, always learn something new I can incorporate into my own climbing. Thanks
How does block leading brings about less of a need to trade gear at belays?
Because if I've lead the pitch, and have anything less than 1/2 of the pieces still with me at the belay, then most of the gear is with my second. So I'll have to retrieve that gear. IME, I typically have ~1/3 or 1/4 of my pieces left with me. Which makes swapping leads MORE efficient for trading gear, since you follower has most of the gear when he gets to the belay. Maybe some people bring lots of pieces than I do? The way I see it, if I end up with most of my gear still with me at most belays, then I'm bringing more gear than I need to. But at any rate, it seems to me this point is at beast a wash between block/swapping.
Or something I'm not getting right here? Maybe depends on types of climb? E.g. sustained technical pitches will bring more of a need to protect, whereas more alpine style routes with lots of easy ground that allows really spaced out pieces?
Yeah, I think you are correct on all fronts. Most of the climbs I do on the east coast have shorter pitches and as a leader, I don't place much to begin with, so I still have the majority of the rack. However, out west, when I do pitches on order of 160-200 feet, I end up placing the majority as you said and then it's probably more efficient to swap leads... until you realize you might lead twice as fast as your partner ;-)
Great content, I especially enjoyed the tree anchor, but the bell is very annoying!
dang bell ;-)
master of your class!
Thanks! What a compliment
Awesome content! I am curious about the use of non locking carabiners at the anchors. I was shown to always use locking carabiners for most or all points on the anchor/belay.
I am loving this stuff though! So helpful for a learning climber.
Locking carabiners should be used if there is more risk... usually in a single pitch scenario when you are setting something up for multiple people to climb on and you won't see the anchors. In multipitch, there are only a couple of people climbing and you ALWAYS see the anchor so nonlockers are generally accepted on the individual anchor points. Now then, on cloves, belay devices and anything attached directly to a person off a master point: LOCKERS.
@@summitseekersexperience That helps a ton. Building up my first rack, lockers add up in a hurry especially for multi pitch scenarios.
It’s good to know when I am in view of the anchor or belay station that two snap gates are acceptable.
Keep up this content! I’ve watched pretty much all of your videos. I love it and recommend your channel to friends.
Cheers from Colorado!
@@ryancollison6536 Sweet, thanks man. Yeah, lockers = so heavy. thanks for spreading my content. Love CO, I gotta get out to eldo canyon soon!
Thanks for the insightful content, this was helpful!
Great tips thank you
You are so welcome!
fantastic video, thank you
For Sure
Greaaat video
Lots of great tips!
Glad it was helpful!
Hi! Your videos are great and I am a new subscriber!
Do you have any videos that show this process with another climber? I would be leading all of the pitches and just need a review of an efficient way to transition pitches with me pretty much guiding them through everything.
There are many videos on my channel that show transitions and change overs… just search for what you are interested in
@@summitseekersexperience I searched and found the one I needed, thank you!!
thanks for all the helpful tips as always
thank you!
Thanks for the great video!
Your Welcome!
Thanks
So, what's the difference between alternating and block climbing? And how is block climbing faster?
Hi Kayce!
Alternating is basically the leader switches out every other pitch. So I lead one, you lead one, I lead one, you lead one and so on.
Block leading is where I would lead like 3 in a row and then you would lead 3 in a row (blocks of pitches).
The reason block leading is typically faster is that we don't have to transfer the gear every single pitch. If I were leading a block, every time you came up as the follower I would only have to get the pieces from you that I had placed which is a lot faster than transferring over the entire rack.
Additionally, we could strategize about who is better in what pitches which would lead to faster climbing. This takes a little homework, but can lead to ultimately a faster climb.
Hope that helps.
@@summitseekersexperience makes sense. I was thinking that every piece of gear would be placed by the leader for some reason. If that was the case then alternating would be faster. But I get it now, thanks!
Great content! Keep it up!
Great tips thank you!
Hey Jason, this was very helpful, I have a question for you, do we need 2 120cm slings since the follower is clove hitching into the quad, therefore need a second quad when you get to the next anchor ?
Between you and your partner you should definitely have multiple things to build anchors with. I have typically 2 X 240 cm slings and then 2 X 120 cm slings and between that I can cover all scenarios, event when I forget to get my anchor material back from my partner. You can always do a girth hitch MP if you forget a bunch of times in a row with an alpine draw.
Great content!!!
Non lockers not facing opposite ? I thought u wanted redundancy there as well
Nice video - thanks!
Great overview of different options at the belay - organized and easy to follow. Some of your speed tips though.... Focusing on cams, for instance. The most important thing for speed is to not break up pitches and if you are mainly placing cams, you're going to run out (or have an insanely heavy and expensive rack). The point about not extending your pieces is, I'm sorry, irresponsible. Many beginners don't understand how troublesome and dangerous zig-zagging is and this video could easily encourage bad practice. Who extends when it's unnecessary?
Thanks for the feedback Simon. In my experience with (I use a double rack of cams and a set of nuts). I'm able to do a lot of pitches quickly as about half the anchor stations have bolted anchors. I think if you are doing a route that has NO bolted anchors, I agree with you, you may need to place nuts or something of that nature (I did that this weekend in NC on a hard route where I needed to place a lot AND the anchor stations had to be built)... So I placed nuts, which is fine, but on easy 5.7 or whatever, having the mindset of placing cams over nuts is always something to think about for speed. Thanks for the compliment on the video!
@@summitseekersexperience Yeah, partly bolted routes are quite different - just the belays speed up the game a lot. But - let's say easy 5.7: you're typically going to run out the rope on every pitch. A dozen or so pieces would mean an average of 4-5m between pieces, so you'll have to climb with the knowledge that a fall will typically hurt or kill you (5.7 is mostly really scary, with lots of stuff to hit and loose rock potential). A dozen pieces plus a belay or two is 14-18 pieces, so unless you have excellent gear beta, you're going to have to carry a ton of expensive hardware. Just practice nut placement so you're faster. If your time savings are really significant, you probably just need more practice. Oh, and don't thread your slings, just throw them over your shoulder.
And I'll stand by my comment about extension. Zig-zagging is a common problem for inexperienced leaders and I encourage you to take this video down, despite most of it being really good stuff.
I’m surprised you think that block leading is more efficient. Flipping the rope (or even two ropes, if you use half ropes) is always a hassle.
On well protected multi pitch routes where you climb with an appropriate number of quick draws the gear handover should be much faster with alternate leading. Most of the quick draws will end up on the route and the follower will pick them up “automatically”.
Yeah... I think a lot of it is personal preference and climbing style. No doubt flipping two ropes is a pain, totally agree... but with a single partner and if you are flaking rope at your feet, I've found that pancake flip is 2 seconds and pretty successful. I don't place much gear when I climb unless it's hard so that also contributes to this line of thinking for me personally. Definitely can see how if you are placing more, alternating would make more sense.
I had the same question as the first commenter and I think the reason is that as an American you equate multi pitch and trad. I come from France and as of now have done all my multi pitch there and always on sports route where no trad gear were used and I completely agree with the first commenter in that case so much easier to alternate. In particular I’d like I have often experienced in places like the Verdon gorge you don’t have the luxury to flake at your feet but you put the rope on your personal anchor as you are in a hanging belay most of the time . Also we tend to use double ropes even with just two climbers as we need long rappels and it is helpful with drag
Wow, such a good and useful Video! Immediately saved for later sending it to partners :) keep up the good content! gonna check out the rest of yours
Thanks! will do.
Could you put timestamps onto your videos?
I have put it on some and not on some... I haven't settled in yet to what makes sense long term because in general it doesn't seem to impact view count at all and it takes an extra 30 minutes or so in editing to do.
Clove Hitch for the Master point! Refer to Brent Peters "Clove Hitch for Anchors"!
Oh my. 2 pieces on a trad anchor? Quad on trad anchor? Nah. Block leads quicker? Belayer has all the gear? Pancake flip a hanging belay? Re-flake the rope? Nah. Swing baby!