I find that the teeth on my micro trax have done 0 damage on my rope over the years. Unless you’re taking 3kn+ falls (which should never happen in tr soloing) falls are just basically sitting down, so teethed ascenders should not be something to worry about.
More than 40 years ago, when I started climbing, this was known as "clogging". The name came from the Clog ascender device which was relatively easy to strap to your harness in such a way that the rope would pass easily through it while climbing. We used this a lot for individual training at the crags, by setting top ropes from above the cliff and then we'd do laps or if this was a project, just hang around and try individual moves.
very interesting! Clogging sound cooler than top rope solo! If you have any pictures/or similar from this era, it would interest me! People were using the clog ascender with the handle or the handless one (chest ascender/croll kind), did they were using a chest sling or something to keep it up?
@@MrHassancehef I typically had a medium-length sling diagonally across my shoulder/chest, then used this as the upper attachment point to pull the Clog with me as I was climbing. We often needed to tie a rucksack or some other item to the bottom of the rope so that we would not pull it up with us due to the friction in the Clog.
I like this system very much!.......I am just getting into solo aid climbing after more than forty years of traditional free trad climbing......being close to sixty now, it is hard to find friends that still climb thus on most days I am alone. Up until now, I have primarily been using a simple prusik loop for both my Ice climbing top rope soloing and my aid climbing soloing but it can a bit of a drag having to always slide the knot up and down the rope, and when you do fall it can be quite hard to loosen the knot, especially in wet conditions ........this looks to be a perfect solution.....the rope seems to slide effortlessly through the ascender and the Kong and that is what appeals to me the most.......however, as I am now pushing the difficulty of my top rope aid routes, we will have to see how much the ascender gets in my way as it is attached to the chest...I am working on placing copper heads and beaks now so I expect lots of falls....One thing I suggest is using a 10mm static rope - It is worth the investment plus you can use this rope to bring up your haul bag when you progress to larger multi-pitch routes....anyway, can't wait to give it a whirl! - a great video! Thank You!
You may want to consider putting your camming device (camp lift) above your toothed device (jumar) to avoid interference issues between the two. I was warned that a toothed climbing device (juamar) in a fall without the teeth engaging, can prevent the camming device (camp lift) from engaging it's cam action if the jumar slides down the rope onto the camming device (camp lift). The takeaway being that it's always better to have the camming device higher up or above the toothed device in a top rope solo environment.
Entirely dependant on the devices, not the device type. a Roll n Lock, kong duck, ropeman (1 and 2) should only be a bottom devices because the exposed cam can be locked open on the lower device, preventing engagement. for the same reason a grigri should never be a second device.
@@coleforsmark7847 Interesting comment. By a grigri not being the 2nd device, do you mean it shouldn't be the lower device with another ascender above it?
After a long hiatus from climbing I'm looking to get back into it. I formerly used a Petzl basic as the primary device but the Petzl no longer recommends the new version for TRS. I'll check out the Camp Lift.
Excellent video, I'm going to use a elderid spoc below (with a mammut cross lock to prevent cross loading), and a grandwall uascend on top. I believe you are the only one i've seen that has mentioned sheath damage to the rope at the top of the cliff an excellent point, especially if TR solo ropes are interchangeable with lead ropes. thumbs up!
At 9:42, the Duck is in a dangerous cross loading position. This can very easily break the carabiner. Advice: You could use a biner like the Grivel Clepsydra S Twingate there. This prevents unwanted positions of your Duck. There is a variety of other such carabiners on the market, e.g. Belay Master by DMM.
The neck lanyard should be breakable in case of a fall. I know of a local climber who was strangled to death by his neck/chest strap. I'm not sure if he was lead or top rope soloing.
Tried this out today. Had a lot of trouble getting my clove hitches that I used to prevent the rope running over a ledge undone. Anyone else experience this? Perhaps it’s because I used a dynamic rope. Thanks for the video, I felt quite secure with this system.
Hi there @TheFunkyHomasapian! To get your clove-hitches to unbind, try pulling the legs forcefully together so they are parallel (the "legs" are the two loose strands that come out of the hitch). This usually loosens the hitch and allows you to slide it off the basket of the carabiner and out the gate. Key-lock carabiners are recommended.
This is gonna be how I top rope by self I guess, mainly just cuz I already have a few of those hand a senders and gri gris, but gonna get the kong duck and possibly petlz microtrax
would love to see how you transition to rapping/lowering in case you can't finish the climb or just want to repeat a section you're working on. I imagine the ascender and harness will get in the way
This video was awesome! And exactly the kind of info I’ve been looking for. One question though; I’ve read in a lot of other setups that people tend to use both strands of the fixed rope with one device on each, is there a particular reason why you only use a single strand? Other than it probably just being easier and faster? I assume it can also be less cumbersome if you decide to just use the other strand to abseil.
There are several ways to get the rope up, but most common is to choose cliffs that have walking access to the top. The second most common is to climb an adjacent route that is easier, and then walk or traverse to the anchors of the route you'd like to top-rope solo.
Hey, thanks for the video! I recently found out that the krab connecting the Kong Duck to the climber should always travel around the rope too, rather than just going straight through the Duck and to the harness. Not sure what impact that has in this setup?
Good video. It's been a while since I went top-rope-soloing so needed a refresher before I go out. I think I'll use two separate ropes with a progress capture device on each rope to de-risk the sharp edge problem you mentioned. Possibly more faff, but arguably safer.
Awesome video, y'all. Thank you! I've been climbing from a very young age, but I realize there's always something new to learn. You're appreciated, Thanks again!
Not questioning your knowledge, but I just have issues with people thinking that rock climbing is something they can learn VIRTUALLY like how to build a birdhouse. You and I know that, but the thousands of people watching this don't. Just below I see a video to teach people how to bolt a route! Great. So some newby watches it, goes out and buys the equipment and bolts their own route without any supervision. Someone else later comes up and from the surface all looks good and for all we know the same mistakes could be repeated throughout the route. Climbing used to be more exclusive and under the radar. Now someone goes to a birthday party at a climbing gym and the next thing you know they put up their own climbing channel to show their friends what a stud they are and its chocked with bad information. Maybe include a message at the beginning of these cautioning them its for information only,, and its best to learn these things firsthand - just like EVERY guide book and instructionsal book on climbing. A mistake making a birdhouse isn't as costly as a mistake rock climbing.
If the how to bolt a route video is from the HowNot2 channel I recommend watching it. They went through a lot of trouble writing up the "bolting bible" and repeatedly persuade people not to bolt anything and donate to your local climbing coalition instead
5:20 Hi! LOVE this video. Can you help explain the counterweight? How does a 5 lb bag keep the rope secure in a fall? I figure I was going to see you establish an anchor at the bottom of the route! Curious to try this out on a tree but would love advice/explanation
Hi there @jasonbennett2194. The technique I am showing here is top-rope soloing, so the rope is secured to an anchor at the top of the climb so that the rope cannot move (I usually use a clove hitch or a bowline because they are easy to undo after they have been under load). Unlike top-rope climbing with a partner, the rope does not go up through an anchor and back down to the ground. Also, unlike lead rope soloing, the anchor is at the top of the climb and not at the base of the pitch. I hope this helps!
Hi, nice and very clear video. Just wondering if each device should be attached to a different point in the harness for extra redundancy ie: one in the tie-in loops, other in belay loop? Thanks
Nice video :) I've been investigating the various ways and devices for TR solo. I've noticed the Camp Lift seems to be popular. I use a Petzl Shunt (attached to chest, of course, to prevent the Shunt from going upside-down) and then a Petzl Nanotraxion as my backup. And, it might be overkill, but I use an 11mm static rope lol. It's a beast, but I don't have to hike it very far.
I have a Camp Turbochest as main device and a Machard Tresse knot above the device as safety (the Turbochest pushes the Machard up). I find this setup light and simple.
hi mate, really interesting video and well explained, you are obviously very experienced. This comment is intended as discussion, not some idiot trolling stuff lol! The reservation i have with this system is that if your primary device is attached to your upper body with a sling, if something was to fail then all force would be diverted to your armpits. this could be negated by attaching the top of the ascender to your belay loop with an extension, maybe a quickdraw or lanyard, and use elastic around your chest in place of the sling so it would break upon loading but still hold the device in position while climbing.? Also I think a GriGri Or shunt are far more suitable than an ascender for this purpose. Again, not being an idiot troller lol.
Thanks for the thoughts @torsandmore! If you look at this system you will see that the ascender is attached to the belay loop. The chest harness can be anything you have handy as it isn't weight bearing. It's function is to keep the device upright and sliding up the rope easily. You could use a bungee here if you prefer. The shunt has a few problems, and although I have many friends who have used it for years for TR soloing, there have been some serious accidents, and Petzl recommends against using the device for rope soloing. Here's a good article from Climbing Magazine about such an accident: www.climbing.com/skills/shunt-accidents-while-toprope-soloing/
Very useful. Thank you. I am thinking to use a setup like this for training laps on a project when partners are not available. I have a question. How much downward movement this system can handle, if any. Sometimes on a climb after you get on a particular hold you need to lower your lower body a bit to keep your hands straight and shake off the pump. Can this system accommodate for any downward body movement? Thanks!
So both carabiners attached to your 2 different ascenders are clipped to your belay loop not your tie-in points? Is that recommended? I know that the orientation works better this way, but i am wondering if you are supposed to have some sort of redundant tie through both tie-in points in your harness?
The belay loop is an acceptable single point of attachment to a climbing system, and does not need to be redundant. For example, when you belay a lead climber you only clip your belay loop with your belay device even though there is a fair amount of force generated. The belay loop passes through both of your tie-in points, and is stronger than your climbing rope which you normally attach this way. In top-rope soloing there is very little force generated. The force required to destroy a belay loop is greater than the force that will kill a human. I hope this helps! Climbing equipment is often much more robust than we might think!
not a problem, lots of trad climbers with jumars do it since they already have them. I switched because I got tired of the handle punching me in the dick
So… no back up knot? Even when you’re jugging you either tie a back up knot or use some other mechanical backup that’s not a jumar. Wow about as bad as those videos where they take microwaves apart
I find that the teeth on my micro trax have done 0 damage on my rope over the years. Unless you’re taking 3kn+ falls (which should never happen in tr soloing) falls are just basically sitting down, so teethed ascenders should not be something to worry about.
More than 40 years ago, when I started climbing, this was known as "clogging".
The name came from the Clog ascender device which was relatively easy to strap to your harness in such a way that the rope would pass easily through it while climbing. We used this a lot for individual training at the crags, by setting top ropes from above the cliff and then we'd do laps or if this was a project, just hang around and try individual moves.
very interesting! Clogging sound cooler than top rope solo! If you have any pictures/or similar from this era, it would interest me! People were using the clog ascender with the handle or the handless one (chest ascender/croll kind), did they were using a chest sling or something to keep it up?
@@MrHassancehef I typically had a medium-length sling diagonally across my shoulder/chest, then used this as the upper attachment point to pull the Clog with me as I was climbing. We often needed to tie a rucksack or some other item to the bottom of the rope so that we would not pull it up with us due to the friction in the Clog.
@@TerjeMathisen thanks!
I like this system very much!.......I am just getting into solo aid climbing after more than forty years of traditional free trad climbing......being close to sixty now, it is hard to find friends that still climb thus on most days I am alone. Up until now, I have primarily been using a simple prusik loop for both my Ice climbing top rope soloing and my aid climbing soloing but it can a bit of a drag having to always slide the knot up and down the rope, and when you do fall it can be quite hard to loosen the knot, especially in wet conditions ........this looks to be a perfect solution.....the rope seems to slide effortlessly through the ascender and the Kong and that is what appeals to me the most.......however, as I am now pushing the difficulty of my top rope aid routes, we will have to see how much the ascender gets in my way as it is attached to the chest...I am working on placing copper heads and beaks now so I expect lots of falls....One thing I suggest is using a 10mm static rope - It is worth the investment plus you can use this rope to bring up your haul bag when you progress to larger multi-pitch routes....anyway, can't wait to give it a whirl! - a great video! Thank You!
Micro traction on a fixed line works great. Used to use a gri gri but got tired of pulling slack every ten feet.
You may want to consider putting your camming device (camp lift) above your toothed device (jumar) to avoid interference issues between the two. I was warned that a toothed climbing device (juamar) in a fall without the teeth engaging, can prevent the camming device (camp lift) from engaging it's cam action if the jumar slides down the rope onto the camming device (camp lift). The takeaway being that it's always better to have the camming device higher up or above the toothed device in a top rope solo environment.
Entirely dependant on the devices, not the device type. a Roll n Lock, kong duck, ropeman (1 and 2) should only be a bottom devices because the exposed cam can be locked open on the lower device, preventing engagement. for the same reason a grigri should never be a second device.
@@coleforsmark7847 Interesting comment. By a grigri not being the 2nd device, do you mean it shouldn't be the lower device with another ascender above it?
@@drummer2532 correct. The top device not engaging will push down on the grigri and prevent the cam from engaging.
After a long hiatus from climbing I'm looking to get back into it. I formerly used a Petzl basic as the primary device but the Petzl no longer recommends the new version for TRS. I'll check out the Camp Lift.
Excellent video! Thank you for sharing!
Excellent video, I'm going to use a elderid spoc below (with a mammut cross lock to prevent cross loading), and a grandwall uascend on top. I believe you are the only one i've seen that has mentioned sheath damage to the rope at the top of the cliff an excellent point, especially if TR solo ropes are interchangeable with lead ropes. thumbs up!
Edelrid Spock is great! Cheaper and lighter than the microtraxxion 👌🏼
At 9:42, the Duck is in a dangerous cross loading position. This can very easily break the carabiner. Advice: You could use a biner like the Grivel Clepsydra S Twingate there. This prevents unwanted positions of your Duck. There is a variety of other such carabiners on the market, e.g. Belay Master by DMM.
Breaking the carabiner easily is a bit exaggerated. Still holds around 6-8kn and isnt an amount of force youre going to reach here anyway.
The neck lanyard should be breakable in case of a fall. I know of a local climber who was strangled to death by his neck/chest strap. I'm not sure if he was lead or top rope soloing.
Tried this out today. Had a lot of trouble getting my clove hitches that I used to prevent the rope running over a ledge undone. Anyone else experience this? Perhaps it’s because I used a dynamic rope. Thanks for the video, I felt quite secure with this system.
Hi there @TheFunkyHomasapian! To get your clove-hitches to unbind, try pulling the legs forcefully together so they are parallel (the "legs" are the two loose strands that come out of the hitch). This usually loosens the hitch and allows you to slide it off the basket of the carabiner and out the gate. Key-lock carabiners are recommended.
This is gonna be how I top rope by self I guess, mainly just cuz I already have a few of those hand a senders and gri gris, but gonna get the kong duck and possibly petlz microtrax
Thanks for the great video. Will try it :)
Happy it was useful!
would love to see how you transition to rapping/lowering in case you can't finish the climb or just want to repeat a section you're working on. I imagine the ascender and harness will get in the way
I've got a video for that! Here you go:
th-cam.com/video/Z23bhdoaJnY/w-d-xo.html
awesome video
It would be nice if you showed how to set up the rope at top considering you didnt start with two ends of rope at the bottom.
This video was awesome! And exactly the kind of info I’ve been looking for. One question though; I’ve read in a lot of other setups that people tend to use both strands of the fixed rope with one device on each, is there a particular reason why you only use a single strand? Other than it probably just being easier and faster? I assume it can also be less cumbersome if you decide to just use the other strand to abseil.
How do you get ropes up there in the first place?
There are several ways to get the rope up, but most common is to choose cliffs that have walking access to the top. The second most common is to climb an adjacent route that is easier, and then walk or traverse to the anchors of the route you'd like to top-rope solo.
waiting for yann camus to appear
& he has now appeared in the comments!
Hey, thanks for the video!
I recently found out that the krab connecting the Kong Duck to the climber should always travel around the rope too, rather than just going straight through the Duck and to the harness. Not sure what impact that has in this setup?
@@skillsforclimbing I think they’re referring to the “lifting loads” (in the video), it does show up on the attached paper instructions, as I recall.
Dude informative video but what are you filming on a potato?😐
Great video! Thank you for sharing! Would you mind showing how you descend and switch from ascension tools to the rappel?
If you’ve found a video on this, lmk! Thanks 😊
how did you set the rope, so that you could top rope solo?
Just do a fixed line at your master point instead of allowing movement
Good video. It's been a while since I went top-rope-soloing so needed a refresher before I go out. I think I'll use two separate ropes with a progress capture device on each rope to de-risk the sharp edge problem you mentioned. Possibly more faff, but arguably safer.
Awesome video, y'all. Thank you! I've been climbing from a very young age, but I realize there's always something new to learn. You're appreciated, Thanks again!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Not questioning your knowledge, but I just have issues with people thinking that rock climbing is something they can learn VIRTUALLY like how to build a birdhouse. You and I know that, but the thousands of people watching this don't. Just below I see a video to teach people how to bolt a route! Great. So some newby watches it, goes out and buys the equipment and bolts their own route without any supervision. Someone else later comes up and from the surface all looks good and for all we know the same mistakes could be repeated throughout the route.
Climbing used to be more exclusive and under the radar. Now someone goes to a birthday party at a climbing gym and the next thing you know they put up their own climbing channel to show their friends what a stud they are and its chocked with bad information.
Maybe include a message at the beginning of these cautioning them its for information only,, and its best to learn these things firsthand - just like EVERY guide book and instructionsal book on climbing. A mistake making a birdhouse isn't as costly as a mistake rock climbing.
Agreed, he needs to include a disclaimer like most of the other instructional videos I watch on TH-cam
If the how to bolt a route video is from the HowNot2 channel I recommend watching it. They went through a lot of trouble writing up the "bolting bible" and repeatedly persuade people not to bolt anything and donate to your local climbing coalition instead
Love every single videos of you . So high valuable contents . Thank you for sharing huge respect ✊🙏🙏🙏
5:20
Hi! LOVE this video. Can you help explain the counterweight? How does a 5 lb bag keep the rope secure in a fall? I figure I was going to see you establish an anchor at the bottom of the route! Curious to try this out on a tree but would love advice/explanation
Hi there @jasonbennett2194. The technique I am showing here is top-rope soloing, so the rope is secured to an anchor at the top of the climb so that the rope cannot move (I usually use a clove hitch or a bowline because they are easy to undo after they have been under load). Unlike top-rope climbing with a partner, the rope does not go up through an anchor and back down to the ground. Also, unlike lead rope soloing, the anchor is at the top of the climb and not at the base of the pitch. I hope this helps!
@@skillsforclimbing DUH! That was a quick google on my end apologies but you explain it very well! Thank you! :)
Hi, nice and very clear video. Just wondering if each device should be attached to a different point in the harness for extra redundancy ie: one in the tie-in loops, other in belay loop?
Thanks
sounds like u might prefer a new harness with two belay loops
or clip into the hard points also
Thanks for this video. Don’t you recommend tying back up knots as you ascend as your safety of last resort?
if using only a grigri
tie safety knot and clip it to belay loop
Very informative, thanks for sharing.
Thanks
Nice video :) I've been investigating the various ways and devices for TR solo. I've noticed the Camp Lift seems to be popular. I use a Petzl Shunt (attached to chest, of course, to prevent the Shunt from going upside-down) and then a Petzl Nanotraxion as my backup. And, it might be overkill, but I use an 11mm static rope lol. It's a beast, but I don't have to hike it very far.
Cool Video, well explained!
I Use the Camp Lift too and the T-Bloc as back up on a semi-static rope! Works great! Have fun! Greets from switzerland
what do you think of Top rope solo with 2 ropes and on each rope using a Micro Traxion attached to the belay loop ?
I have a Camp Turbochest as main device and a Machard Tresse knot above the device as safety (the Turbochest pushes the Machard up). I find this setup light and simple.
Like a knife through butter! Rope protectors are pretty valuable!
Micro traction or Rescuecender are waaaay better devices for TR soloing
hi mate, really interesting video and well explained, you are obviously very experienced. This comment is intended as discussion, not some idiot trolling stuff lol!
The reservation i have with this system is that if your primary device is attached to your upper body with a sling, if something was to fail then all force would be diverted to your armpits. this could be negated by attaching the top of the ascender to your belay loop with an extension, maybe a quickdraw or lanyard, and use elastic around your chest in place of the sling so it would break upon loading but still hold the device in position while climbing.? Also I think a GriGri Or shunt are far more suitable than an ascender for this purpose.
Again, not being an idiot troller lol.
Thanks for the thoughts @torsandmore! If you look at this system you will see that the ascender is attached to the belay loop. The chest harness can be anything you have handy as it isn't weight bearing. It's function is to keep the device upright and sliding up the rope easily. You could use a bungee here if you prefer. The shunt has a few problems, and although I have many friends who have used it for years for TR soloing, there have been some serious accidents, and Petzl recommends against using the device for rope soloing. Here's a good article from Climbing Magazine about such an accident: www.climbing.com/skills/shunt-accidents-while-toprope-soloing/
@@skillsforclimbing appreciate the reply thank you and will def check out the link.
Do you have a video explaining the change from climbing to descending?
Sure do! Here ya go:
th-cam.com/video/Z23bhdoaJnY/w-d-xo.html
change your places devices
Very useful. Thank you. I am thinking to use a setup like this for training laps on a project when partners are not available. I have a question. How much downward movement this system can handle, if any. Sometimes on a climb after you get on a particular hold you need to lower your lower body a bit to keep your hands straight and shake off the pump. Can this system accommodate for any downward body movement? Thanks!
@@skillsforclimbing Thank you for your response.
So both carabiners attached to your 2 different ascenders are clipped to your belay loop not your tie-in points? Is that recommended? I know that the orientation works better this way, but i am wondering if you are supposed to have some sort of redundant tie through both tie-in points in your harness?
The belay loop is an acceptable single point of attachment to a climbing system, and does not need to be redundant. For example, when you belay a lead climber you only clip your belay loop with your belay device even though there is a fair amount of force generated. The belay loop passes through both of your tie-in points, and is stronger than your climbing rope which you normally attach this way. In top-rope soloing there is very little force generated. The force required to destroy a belay loop is greater than the force that will kill a human. I hope this helps! Climbing equipment is often much more robust than we might think!
that was alot of great information. Thank you
@@skillsforclimbing
Youre doing a great job!
Keep it up
Is this Highway star?
You nailed it!
@@skillsforclimbing love doing laps on that route. 🔥
Should a hand ascender be the primary safety device?
This would be literally the first time I've seen that.
not a problem, lots of trad climbers with jumars do it since they already have them. I switched because I got tired of the handle punching me in the dick
Great video. Thanks for sharing .
If you just got to the climbing area and there was no rope there already, how do you get a rope set up from the bottom of the routes?
Usually there is a trail and you can hike up to the bolts otherwise someone has to lead it and set up a TR
Nice! Great video :)
Very helpful! Thank you
Fantastic video!
Would you consider using a ropeman 2 instead of a kong?
Yep. Would work exactly the same.
Thank you so much 🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🐝🐝🐝
You're welcome! Thanks a bunch for watching.
Nice.
How do you descend? Particulary, how do you descend, when you fall in overhang and you are hanging in space?
He has a grigri. He can use that to repell
Back up your belay loop with a 6mm perlon loop or 9/16 supertape loop when TR soloing. Don't be Todd Skinner.
Or you could just regularly inspect your gear, always remove anything that could obstruct that inspection and discard anything worn!
So… no back up knot? Even when you’re jugging you either tie a back up knot or use some other mechanical backup that’s not a jumar. Wow about as bad as those videos where they take microwaves apart