I thank you for supporting the 86 platform as it meant to be. A lot of reviews always complain about the lack of power. This isn't a car about power, its about handling and becoming a better driver. I hope you give it to someone who will cherish as much as you did.
Matt Botelho Couldn't agree more. My girlfriend and I, who both drive this car, agrees that the first upgrade we'd want would be automatic wind screen wipers. Because driving turny roads in constantly varying rain with manual control kills all that potential driving joy..
You really need to understand the gear ratios so you know how to get the most power out of it stock. I don't have any trouble getting up most on-ramps, which people always use as an example to make our car look slow.
As an entry-level affordable sports car I’ve always thought the 200-205hp was impressive for a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder. You’ll find very few that match or top that.
A minivan T-boned me in my FRS, totaling it. I got a Mustang GT to replace it, just so I could tick "American V8" off the bucket list. But every time the road curves and snakes, I miss my FRS. It was a revelatory car. It should get more love.
Luigi de Guzman My first and current car is a v6 07 mustang. And for some reasons even though I have never driven a lighter car in classes similar to the Miata, FRS, etc, I can feel your pain. I want to know what its like to dip in corners like its nothing at 40-50mph. It must be bliss......
Desmond Harrington the lightness and balance of the 86 platform makes it incredibly satisfying to drive hard. You don't accelerate fast, but you find yourself hanging on and getting into a rhythm. I will never not recommend it as a "fun" car. Bonus: it was a lot cheaper to run than my Mustang.
Luigi de Guzman | That's awesome. Just listening to you is getting me excited. Has my heart pumping lol. I know I'll get in a FRS one day. Hey, maybe you should get a coilover kit for your V8? As well as have someone corner balance it. I read from guys that they love it; it stops the dips during launch, hugs the road, and they haven't even added adjustable anti bars. It won't be as balanced as the 86 of course but I'm sure you would love the feel of the new set up. Unless you have other priorities right now, like me.
Desmond Harrington mine's a 2017 GT with the performance pack. I don't want to drop the ride height any further than stock because I'm going to start scraping a lot (steep driveway, dodgy pavement etc). Plus, I don't mind the stock suspension for "GT" type driving. Planned mods: square tire setup, probably 285/35/19 all around. Maybe lighter wheels. Might also do some intake and exhaust mods to make a rough approximation in sound and feel to a Boss 302. The long long term goal will be to save up for a house with 2 garage spaces. Then I could get a light car to go with the heavy one!
I agree 100%. Also, I'm the odd duck, as I sold my '14 Cayman S (981) & bought a '17 BRZ Limited. Everyone thinks I'm crazy, but I can have 99.9% of the fun in the BRZ that I had in the Porsche for a fraction of the cost. HP is not for everyone & I appreciate not reaching terminal ticket speeds every time I come out of second gear now. Just ordering my coilovers, wheels/tires & the BRZ will be complete!
TheVaughnShow noooo !!! Your channel motivated me to get a 2016 Cayman GTS (you also helped me decide that I wanted a 981 over a 718), a shame that you sold the Cayman :(
You can thrash, drift, mod, and drive the 86 to the 10s without breaking the speed limit (also did I mention drift?!). Not so much with the Porsche. Plus you can haul 4 passengers or a generous amount of cargo (for a sports car) in a pinch. Can't beat $/driving fun.
This was a very concise and honest review of this car. Having owned a 2013 frs for nearly 3 years, I find it uncanny that I have experienced every quirk and issue mentioned in this segment down to the gas cap loosing pressure. I will be anxiously looking forward to your next choice of vehicle. Thank you again for your passion and dedication to auto journalism. I sincerely believe that Everyday Driver is by far the best representation of the craft currently available in this medium.
Everyone complaining about the FRS/BRZ/86 being slow must never have taken a corner in this car. I autocross mine and constantly beat Corvettes, Mustangs and GTIs. All I have is sticky tires. Try and push it in the corners like he said in the video and you'll find out that everyone else is braking and you are passing them. There is more than one type of speed.
Yes, late braking and high carry speeds is where this car shines. It gives you a lot of confidence near the limit and the car never feels like it is out of control. The harder you push it the better it get. If you bought this car to race at street lights you bought the wrong car lol. But take it on a winding canyon road and it will reward you.
Autocrossed mine too. Hella fun! Was quite interesting going from a 08 M3 to the BRZ, but I never looked back... until I was forced to sell due to an overseas move. :(
How does it do against experienced 370z drivers? I've seen a number of 370z's on full tracks keep up with porsches in the turns, not sure on short courses like auto-x.... about to do the front swaybar+bushings on mine, otherwise it's an okay car that doesn't leave me pissed off/embarrased in a straight line, the stock brakes were completely garbage, so I went 2 piece rotors/motul 600/lines/flush, and after about 3 months they're bed in and beg for punishment. Used 370's are cheap, so I'm surprised they don't have more of a following.
370s can keep up with the 86s in the corners, and leave them in the dust in the straights to be honest, but they are pretty heavy and not as eager to change direction because of that. That's the number one complaint against them. They can keep up in corners but you have to have a lot of balls and nerves of steel because they just don't give you the confidence at the limit that the 86 does. I guess it just depends on what kind of driver you are like you said.
Current beater/commuter is an AE111 Sprinter Trueno. 2300 pounds with 163hp. So much more fun revving through the gears in lightweight cars! I do miss my old BRZ.
Honestly, I do aswell. While i can see some points people bring up are justified, I am just very pleased with the things you actually touch alot while driving. Steering wheel feels awesome, the alcantara seats feel awesome, shifter and handbrake feel awesome, pedal position is amazing etc. I don't care if the plastic silver wheels of the auto climate control don't feel amazing, i literally touch those once at the beginning of my trip. :D
Me too, everything I actually use regularly feels right. The Steering wheel with no fruity controls, the cruise control out of the way, it feels like a car meant to drive. The upgraded climate control stuff feels fine. The Subaru sound system needs thrown out and shot. As far as room and comfort, I'm a 6'3" fat gun toting American, and I fit great and comfortably inside. It's wierd how well it fits. I'm sure I've gotten many disbelieving stares from onlookers in the Wal-mart parking lot as I pry my fat out of that tiny car. I love the leather padding on the inside of the foot well, and the way the seat hugs my fatness. Other than that, everything this guy said hit the mark. I would buy this car again in a heartbeat, because as a fat family guy, I can't justify spending 60k+ on a sports car just for me to enjoy, as I know I'd be keeping that extra 30k+ from something to better my wife and kids. My only regret, is that I still haven't rolled my blubber butt to the track yet.
Speaking as an owner of a 2013 BRZ I'd say your review and comments hit the nail on the head regarding what this platform is all about. As always, great content and thanks for the honest, straightforward, high quality reviews.
The torque dip to me is giving the car two modes: relax mode and give-it-a-go mode. Normally in the city or even high way I shift at 3500 (I even set the shifting beep at 4000). It encourage me to shift early and save fuel. If you are complaining about the torque dip at even fifth gear in the city the chance is you are already speeding. On the other hand when I'm in the mood to push, I'll use the 5000 - 7000 range and, in my opinion if you are on the track and somehow you are below 5000, then you are shifting too lazily
The torque on the 86 down low is plenty for comfortable city/suburb driving. I don't need more cuz there's always cars that go so slow in front of me no matter how good those cars are. I haven't pushed my 86 to 5000rpm yet cuz I'm still breaking her in...
I owned an original ae86 and that thing was slow as hell, I'm talking any decent human being on foot could beat it light to light. But when you got into the corners, even on shitty tires. It shines. Oh, did it shine...
Yeah everyone calls this thing slow. I ask them do you want to go for a drive in my '97 Impreza? 140 hp and 140 tq with power sapping awd! The turbo ones were fast of course.
I love my BRZ. Had it since new in 2014. Driven daily in Colorado. Haven't had one issue or a rattle which I expect to no longer be the case when I get it back from the body ship from having all its hail damage fixed. The damage was so bad they had to replace 1 fender, the hood, trunk and roof. I miss it and can't wait to get it back. I plan on keeping the car for a very long time.
Have had my 15 brz for about 4 months now and my wife and i love it. I am slowly doing the things you have recommended in the past for them. Already put 18" rims with sticky tires, drop in k&n filter and changed the stock tube to a carbon fiber smooth tube. Tomorrow I am getting the nvidia n1 cat back exhaust put on and eventually will change the header and then a mild tune. It is my wife's daily driver so not looking to do anymore than that but we love the car. Have taken it on tail of the dragon, when it still had the stock tires, and it was a blast to drive there and in the smokies. Love your honest updates and comments on the car.
Parted ways with my 17 BRZ this past March. In the time I owned it I enjoyed it very much. Looked great, sounded good with my exhaust set up, and was so fun to drive. Child number two came along and I felt it was time to get a 4 door. Enjoying my WRx, but I have fond memories of my BRZ.
As a fellow 2013 FRS owner, I loved this video! You're dead right - sticky tires are key! Ridiculous Tip Time: There might not be a button on the trunk, but there is a keyhole (it's under the lip of the trunk at the upper-right of the license plate). Awkward as all get-out and almost no one knows it's there (because it's virtually worthless). I will have owned my Ultramarine FRS for 5 years at the end of the month and I love it as much now (maybe more) as I did when I bought it. By the way, I bought UEL headers from FT86SpeedFactory because of your videos! Mad props, guys! :)
Great review! Always love the long-term non-biased reviews of a car, saves a lot of us consumers time and money on making the decision on their next vehicle.
my mom daily'd a brz for 8 yrs starting w a '13 and i drove it a lot (10s of 000s of miles) i disagree a lil abt the INFAMOUS "TORQUE DIP" tho i always thought it was probably there for emissions which gets the car out the door but also it made u rly earn it to drive it "spiritedly" u rly needed to make sure u kept it above 4700 or it would punish u which was fun, esp w the stick incredible car just totally magical feel lots of noises for sure and the 90s controls was kind of extra magic on top; kept it all very clean and simple and usable and not distracting love the long term serieses thx yall
and it had a ton of torque before the dip, so u were never struggling to start movign in normal driving - just u rly need to shift if u wanna accelerate more than 'barely' which is kinda fun
Just a quick note - keyless entry "limited" BRZs have a trunk button above the rear license plate and on the fob. Also, as Todd has pointed in other videos, power and torque dip are solved with header/tune. ---- '17 BRZ PP owner.
I recently traded in my '13 FRS base for a '17 BRZ Series Yellow. I must admit the quality does seem to have gone up. The brembo brakes are amazing, the torque dip is slightly improved; albeit still there. And the new 4.3 rear diff really adds to improved acceleration. It would say, even though it's not a new generation, it was totally worth the upgrade. Plus leather and alcantara seats are amazing.
Still getting one....it's one of my dream cars....I fell in love when a friend of mine took me drifting in the back roads of Maryland in hers and boy did I have a blast.
Those gauges on the base trim are quite possibly the best part! My son and I just bought a 2019 BRZ premium for project car and we just sit in that thing and turn dials. Asmr dreams come true. F all that other noise in the limited.
I fixed the torque dip with a UEL header, E85 and a tune. Night and day difference. This is how it should have come from the factory. The surge all the way to redline with no torque dip feels amazing. It builds, builds, builds and then you get a nice punch near redline exactly how an NA car should feel like. What this car needs is about 30lbs more of torque in the low to mid-range, which is where most people drive the car. It gets old having to redline every gear to keep up in traffic lol. There's a lot of theories in the forums going around as to why the engineers left the torque dip in there. It has something to do with the high pressure fuel pump's design. Supposedly it cannot keep up or transition smoothly when the ECU switches from the port injectors to the direct injectors around the midrange rpms where the toque dip is at. In an effort to solve this problem you can advance the cam timing to get rid of the dip, but then you get this really loud intake resonance that sounds like marbles in a can so the NVH guys probably did not have a choice but to keep the dip in there
Yeah short gearing goes a long way as well the gears are a little too tall from factory it doesn't match the powerband at all. You wind up in the torque dip at every shift during normal driving unless you redline each gear lol
Don't even need the E85. Just the header and a tune. UEL is great for that boxer rumble (as long as you don't get a Borla version 1) and you're really only losing a few horses over the EL variant.
Yeah E85 is not necessary to get rid of the dip. I only use it because it adds power along with the header and because all we get here in Cali is crappy 91. It feels like and probably is 87 lol Data logs always showed a bit of knock on 91 too which caused the ECU to pull timing. On E85 I don't show any knock even after hard runs and extensive heat soaking in traffic with intake temperatures sometimes reaching 130+.
They shouldn't have installed two type of Injector. They needed to put a Direct Injection with a VVTL-i, make it 20 valve instead of 16valve and a Higher Precision Fuel Pump. Direct Intake from a designed hood scope and a 4-2-1 headers from the factory. How's all that sound ? I should have made 250hp with this setup and we haven't add in force induction. Let me be blunt, just think about the Honda S2000 (224Hp) from factory and that was a decade ago. No Force Induction
Hey, I just want to point out - The reason the 2013 BRZ is more expensive than the FRS is due to a list of features it has that FRS doesn't offer, one of those being the trunk release at the trunk. You complained it doesn't have that, but it does, your model just doesn't have it. Great video!
Great review. I had to wait 6 months after ordering my GTS and four and a half years later have 90,000 kms on the clock. My only rattle was the well known rear parcel shelf issue. Within 2 months of ownership I took the car from Central Queensland to Bathurst for the 12 hour race, Phillip Island for world Superbikes, Avalon for the International Air show and to Tasmania where I did all the fantastic Targa Tasmania roads. All up 10,000 kms in one month. My only change to the car has been to fit 225/45/17 Continental Sport Contact 5 tyres. The car has performed faultlessly with no issues. I have a quiet chuckle to myself when I see comments about the 86 being gutless. The people making these comments have obviously never driven the car on a tight, challenging road. I still love this car.
I LOVE my 2013 BRZ! Open Flash Tablet tune, a Borla Touring axle back exhaust and I'm as happy as can be! A little rattle and yes the crickets but it gets 30mpg and I have fun driving every single time I get in it:) Would absolutely buy another.
I had mine for 3 years and old sold it because I had to move overseas and I ended up buying a R32 GT-R. Really didn't want to sell it. It had absolutely no rattles and the bluetooth always worked; granted I replaced the antenna with a Perrin stubby. I constantly heard others having issues though, so maybe I was just lucky. Figured the stubby would have made it worse. I raced mine for the full period of ownership and the tires definitely make all the difference! Definitely can still have fun, as said. Crickets suck. No getting around it. Averaged 31 mpg as well, which included track days. Replace the stock header, get a new tune, and enjoy the mid-range again! :) . My biggest pet peeve would probably be the sun visor. Never seemed to do what I wanted. Oh, and the passenger window 1-touch function hardly ever worked on the first push.
I have a 2016 FRS. No rattles or any unwanted noises. It's quiet when I just want to cruise, and its loud when I'm ripping it on back roads. As for crickets, it depends on the gas you're putting. If it has no ethanol, no crickets. The 91 from Shell solves this.
I have 162k miles on my 2013 six speed manual. I drive from south central KY to Louisville to work every day. Over half of it is on well maintained twisties. There are really no cops out here but you have to watch out for deer. The result is that I did my first brake job at 142k miles and there was still pad left. And I've been through 8 sets of tires. It's like racing to work every day. With the factory tires I did a lot of drifting, but most of my tires were Michelin PSS's so it was pretty much on rails. The G forces actually make me nauseous sometimes. It is the best bang for the buck sports car on the market, IMO. Other than tires, I've kept everything stock. I don't think of it as slow at all. I needed performance and decent gas mileage, and I won't touch a turbo. I consider it the perfect mix of power and economy. YMMV. BTW, regarding the interior, I LIKED it because it is retro. It kinda reminds me of back in the early 70's, driving my Opel GT. Except this car is a LOT better. BTW, I have no rattles or noise, but the interior is not quiet. The back right rattle is the spare tire tools under the floor mat. The one thing my car did that ticked me off is that I used to get at least 75 miles of driving after the "low fuel" light came on. Then one week I ran out of gas TWICE at 35-40 miles. Turns out it has two tanks and it seems a lower hose between them is clogged.
Subaru Bluetooth is terrible in general, while I've never had problem using Toyota's. That's coming from me as a BRZ owner, and former Corolla owner, and from using the radios of friends and family Lexus/Toyotas and Subarus over the years.
‘16 Daily driven for more than a year now and I’ve had no problems what so ever. Been reliable, fun to drive and surprisingly rather practical. Love the car and will most likely keep it forever.
Thank you for this video. Will be purchasing my first official car and it will be the FR-S. Been watching videos left and right. Pros and Cons and I absolutely fell in love. I'm so excited Thoughts on FR-S being first purchased vehicle?
We've recommended this as a first car as well as a first RWD sports car. The 86 and the MX5 miata are incredible cars to really learn driving and use in any situation. If you get one with a manual transmission it will teach you a lot and be a blast to drive. We hope you get one! Thanks for watching.
BUY ONE. I bought a 2015 FR-S last year and there hasn't been a day where I've second guessed my decision. In my opinion it's a wonderful car to own for the price point and it's also relatively cheap to maintain. As a first car you will not be disappointed. BUY MANUAL NOT AUTOMATIC YOU WILL BE MISSING THE POINT IF YOU BUY AN AUTOMATIC
No, it's made for cornering. They put thin wheels and hard compound tyres to allow it to powerslide and "drift" a bit to get it to appeal to the younger market better, i've seen proper track day setups of these cars standing toe-to-toe with much faster, more expensive cars easily. You know, until a straight, but that's not where the car lives.
I had mine for 5 years now and I still in love it Last year I did a road trip in it. Canmore - Calgary - Great Falls - Helena - Idaho Falls - Salt Lake City - Page - Las Vegas - Death Valley - San Simeon - Monte Rey - San Francisco - Oregon Coast - Seattle - Vancouver and back to Canmore. A Dream trip in a dream car.
Better car IF you want a 2 seater with limited cargo space. IF you want a convertible. IF you want a 5-10 year older car. FRS is much more practical if you need trunk space/emergency seats and a hard top.
I like the platform very much. I'm a Cayman S owner, and Todd is right. For the money and the performance of having a "fun" car, the BRZ/FRS is tough to beat. In the escalating price of the sports car market segment, this is a breath of fresh air. I'm not sure who coined the phrase " The best performance improvement you can do to your car is "The Driver". I've seen this many times at track days. This car puts many people in the sport and market that would be otherwise out-priced in these days of expensive cars. Drive what you love, and love what you drive ! If you really love cars, you'll have a great experience.
Everyone hates on this car, then they try one and either change their mind, or hate it more. It's not everyone's car but it's so damn good. I love mine, and I'll never sell it no matter what!
Thanks for the very informative review! I’m looking to replace my aging Honda Accord but Honda today suffers from a lot of QC and reliability problems, so, I thought to go with Toyota but the Camry is not my style-I stumbled upon the GT86 and it looks great and it’s a Toyota!
nailed it on the dot. Driving up and down vasco everyday is a dream in my car. I've shut down so many faster cars in the corners. Puts a smile on my face every time. You can't get a DRIVER'S CAR with this handling for this price. I don't regret the purchase at all. I just got my oft and ofh and the car feels and sounds great
I wish I had a car like this myself. I haven't hand anything fun to drive in overa decade, and life kept knocking me down, even before the virus, and I just miss being behind the wheel of a light sports car. Feel like it'd be the most selfish go fund me I could do.
u can get these in the pre owned market for a very good price. And it being a toyota these babies last long as well. I am planning on getting one as soon as i get my stupid life in order
got a turbo kit on my brz, and now it checks all of the boxes of what people want in this car. great handling, and now has about 320 wheel hp reliably for 10s of thousands of miles so nobody can call it slow. I think this is a great car.
Although not a fan of this platform I do have to admit that the follow shot from 7:20 till the end of the video does display probably the best exhaust note from any 4-cylinder. Gotta love the Boxer for that.
The slogan for this thing should be "love at first curve". I had the fortune of driving one in anger on some local back roads and it was magical. It was a 2017 so I think they managed to tune out that dip. It was quick enough for me with a passenger and the A/C going. And my daily drivers are a 650cc motorcycle and a G37! I still think they should punch the motor out to 2.5L as that is free power (no weight, no cost).... but aside from that it's pretty much perfect. I'm definitely going to look at one when the G's time is done.
future62 thats a cool idea but subaru would never do that. This car will die out at the end of its production life in 2022 with the NA 2.0. Sad thing really
It still has the dip (even check out the dash display on the limited BRZs to see a "live" graph of torque and RPM), but the gearing ratio was changed. Feels great.
future62 I own a '17 86. The dip is still there, but as others have said the revised gear ratios and final drive have made the effect less prone. That being said, I'd still love a bit more torque, but a header and tune can fix that. I think the power is fine, but that little bit of extra "punch" is something that I think will transform the car, at least. for what I use it for.
Yea I was surprised; the power really wasn't bad. With bolt ons it would be enough for me. And it was actually livable on the highway. Definitely better than my Civic or 350Z were.
I've been hearing a lot of 86 owners (quite a few come into my work) say that 300 - 350HP is the sweet spot for daily driving with the occasional trip through twisty back roads. Any more than that and you may as well go all out and only use it for the track.
I actually really appreciate this video very much. I recently just purchased a 2013 ZN6 GT86 and was worried about the heavy engine sound but glad you covered up noisy High pressure fuel pump and I was worried it was something bad.
at the time when i bought mine, i had only about a year of driving experience and a month into owning my FRS, took it to the canyons and fort my first time, I felt so comfortable and confident in my driving because of how great the car steers. After getting BC coils, good rims and tires, its even better
worst is all these boy racers wanting to race these cars. who cares. it wasn't designed for straight line speed. I am reffering about other cars wanting to race me in my na frs at every light. never had challenges with the turbo thank God cause it's annoying af
I feel like i am still going to accelerate my 86 (2 weeks togo) off lights like a bat out of hell, most people around me go real slow off stoplights, even in a lousy sentra I am faster off the line and to what ever the speed limit is as quick as feasible. Fuel economy who gives a damn when i just put a smile on my face.
Jimmy Peña I'm referring to other cars wanting to race stock 86s. i never had douches trying ti race me when i spooled the turbo. sorry you had that incident. not all 86 owners are like that, just young ones
F C that's my experience. I still had dealer plates on my 86 and everyone and their mother would pull up trying to race. Tesla Model S--all sorts. The thing is... If ppl think the car is so slow, why are they always trying to get us to race them? Not only that I've had a few ppl see me having fun on my own in the twisties and try to do the ricer fly by and they can't always keep up even in these Z cars everyone praises so highly. The car keeps momentum very well.
Inkawgneegrow it's because a lot of people who own these cars (at least where I live) like to show off in them and rice them out, they also will do the typical Honda "rev my engine really loud and skirt off type stuff." I drive an old 1986 z31 and the same thing happens to me where people try to race me, most of the time it's either a Honda Civic with the front bumper ziptied on, or an 86 variant, the 86 is a nice car but the people who drive them (at least where I live) have such huge egos and the amount of cosmetics on their car is not even funny.
I’ve dailyed 240s and of the such my whole life I just got an st and yea it’s “quick” but I really need my real wheel drive thinking about trading in and picking up an older frs/gt86
I driven a Holden barina 1999 model across Australia to get my hours done quickly, and I felt very comfortable driving 14 hour parts in the car, I've never been in any other car so I never knew what other cars were like. I came back to Perth from Brisbane and Dad took me to a Subaru dealership, he got me to sit in his favourite car, the wrx sti and it was so much more comfortable than the barina, it felt a bit to tall though so he got me to sit in the BRZ, I'm in love, 1 test drive is all I needed.
Part of the reason people may not complain about the Miata as much as the BRZ is that it is in fact significantly faster than the BRZ. 0-60 comes half a second faster. Plus, with a drop top 45mph feels like 60mph.
You're definitely right about the drop top feeling faster. That half second is mostly because the miata will hit 60mph in second gear, while you have to shift to third at 58/59 in the frs. They're with in tenth or two in the 1/4 mile, where both cars are pretty useless anyway. Of course Todd's car will most likely have a slightly raised rev limit with his tune, so it'll probably hit 60 in second anyway.
That was also a good point. I suppose if you continued to feel like you were pulling along, and the sound was great, it would make you feel like you were faster.
The ND feels faster because it is, but not by that much. The difference in off-the-line acceleration, besides the 86/ BRZ torque dip, is the ND's fatter total area under the power curve, better gearing, better clutch feel ,and stickier OEM tires.
The car is such an incredibly beautiful design. The lines and proportions are perfect. I wish they would produce a new generation with more power and higher quality interior
Thank you for recognizing that the point of the car is not to win drag races. I loved my BRZ. I always told people it wasn't fast, but it sure was quick.
Totally agree about the low torque, so many modern cars suffer from this. It flies if you rev the bollocks off it, but that spoils the responsiveness the car needs.
Do you mind if I ask why you're selling? I know you love the car but are you looking for something else with more comfort/power? Or do you not plan on replacing it any time soon? I'm going to miss your updates on this car!
He wants to get a lotus elise, he brought it up in the podcast. From the sounds of it he just wants a faster version of this which appears the elise would be.
spike021 A bone stock Elise would destroy an a heavily modded 86 on track, an Elise does 1 thing and that is being a really fun weekend car. The 86 is designed to be a daily car, most people who own an 86 will definitely daily it. It just happens to have an interior that is trailing it's rivals so his opinion is still valid. On top of that, he and paul has mentioned the Elise is awful to drive on the highway but it decimates almost every other car in terms of driving fun.
I own a GT-86 (same as FRS/BRZ) since nearly 3 years now, and that's not a car to drive fast, *that's a car to have fun*... and there's no better car than this one to have fun! Every day, I've got a big smile on my face as soon as I'm walking to my car...
I had a FRS, loved the car, with a super charger i got 452hp out of it. it was fast and fun... I traded it for my current Focus ST and in every way the interior is better, the ST is a better daily driver. the main reason i traded.. The FRS was over priced. i dont think its a cheap car, because i think it should be less then 20k new. i was stupid and got one of the first FRS off the lot.. in auto and stupid extended warranty, bespoke radio, wheel locks, all the stupid deal add ons, stupid dealer alram. and all that crap paid over 30k.. wasnt worth it. and 10000% truth, wouldnt have been worth it at 25k. my fully loaded ST3 package with heated seat and all, 27 otd. That said i miss the FRS and i plan on getting another one.. especially since toyota helped me out buy killing the Scion name and killing the resale along with it. they going around 11-12k here now. though i only want a shellto put a LS3 in it..
Las Vegas, they still have those guys selling... trying to sell at 17-18 for 2013 with 70k+ on them. That's why they still have them. But at least 2 have changed hands under 12k here due to the dealerships offer 10-11k. I run the FB vegas86club page for the last 4 years or so. one guy posted his at 12.5 the other day in the group but has taken it down. he claims toyota only offered 9.8k they are dropping in prices and ragged ones are abundant around here
Thomas Clark 70k miles 2013 model for 17-18 wow what a rip off, I haven't seen anything that grimey on the east coast, hopefully I can find a deal from 10 - 12k on the East Coast.
there is a video dyno on my page, that was 421 i think, we went to the smaller pulley and refined the tune, i have the dyno sheets.. call BS all you want lolol. the video is with the standard KW high boost pulley, the 452 is their ultra high boost pulley bumping from 16.5 to 19.5. Not that i need to justify to you or really care if you believe me or not. I worked at FTeightysix now called 86speed when it made those numbers. it was well known car in the 86 community.. soooooo..
absolutely agree with you. And yes I lost every single mini drag race at the lights to SUVs, TSI golfs, you name it but can beat them everytime at the corners!
Heard this one in the motorcycle community, "it's more fun to drive a slow bike fast than a fast bike fast" and it completely transfers over to cars especially like the 86/FRS/BRZ
I own a brz and gotta say that everything that was brought up is pretty accurate for sure! The thing I can't get past is the immediate response of the steering. I've never driven a car that handles like a brz. Almost feels like I'm driving a very nicely balanced go-cart. As for the speed, I feel it is just right. Especially for those of us that can't afford a higher priced sports car. It may not be a car to win races, but one to truly enjoy the thrill of driving
All I'm going to say is 370z 0-100 in 5sec, 0.97g, better interior and handling, imo better looking and of course same DNA as big bro GTR. Everyone praises the brz/frz through their technical jargon saying its a great handler, well many sport cars handle well, Just because practically everyone has now bought one doesn't necessarily make it a good car I think it's just been marketed really well. There is nothing unique about a brz, I would even take a old Nissan Silvia, wrx, prelude over it. The era when sports cars actually sounded and performed above expectations.
The Z is old, fat and ugly, with a worse interior. $30K barely gets you into the stripper model; you need to get the Sport for $34K to have something passable (which is what the Z is on a track -- passable). It's a shadow of its former self; not a sports car so much as an Infinit in sports car clothing. I get sad just looking at it.
i bought mine in Australia and got it for 30k it is the sports model with leather, heated seats, xenon headlights, sat nav, bose sound system, interior is nice trust me. as for it being ugly i disagree do u call a porsche 911 ugly? if you look at the rear of the Z it has similar proportions. it even has similar design cues to the brz being a 2 door sports coupe. Anyway please enjoy your brz no direspect intended.
In the US the model Z with sat nav and leather is over $40K (vs. $30K for the ND or BRZ, so really not in the same class). "Ugly" is probably too strong a word. Bloated, maybe? I just think it just looks too big for what it is, but maybe that's because it is built on a 2+2 coupe chassis, not a dedicated 2-seater platform. I never considered the Z when shopping; maybe that was an oversight on my part, but I find the plasticky, dated interior a turn-off, and I consider 3,500 lbs. is too heavy for what it is. It's still a nice car; enjoy it. I just hope Nissan keeps it around and does better with the next one.
I had a 350z, 370Z and today a BRZ. The 370Z is really fast , but a littebit to heavy in the corners. Indeed the interior is very nice. THE BRZ is the best car to handle, neutral in the corners.
I just started watching this channel about a week ago. I was enjoying the FRS episodes and was hoping they were going to keep building on it. I didn't realize that it wasn't a permanent feature of the show.
26k USD is fair. My European GT86 was 36k€. But mine came fully loaded. FRS versions look quite stripped compared to what we got. Still the car almost has almost no competition when you compare it to what is available new. Its an excellent daily, for the HP the fuel economy is amazing (especially for us Europeans where gas prices are crazy), looks good, and sounds good. If this car had a small turbo from the factory it would be killer. But I guess this would mean less WRX's and MK5 supra's would be sold.
I've taken my 2013 FRS on a couple trips through the Rockies and it is a blast to drive. Mine has over 50K on it and I don't have any rattles. It is noisy though without any insulation. That doesn't bother me. I've packed all my camping gear for 2 people in it for a 2 week trip. People have commented about how much stuff I get in that little car. I had a great time chasing and being chased by a BMW. He could pull away on the straights but I could gain on him in the curves. In the lower gears and high RPMs it performs well going up mountain roads ... or down. The biggest annoyance is getting caught by slower or constantly breaking cars.
This is one if the best Craigslist ads ever.
Lmfao
If your drag racing a Miata, fiesta ST or a frs you've missed the point of these cars entirely!
Loganbb91 exactly,
If you drag race these cars you're probably 16
He said that it is a mountain road car, and he said it is perfectly fine in corners..
leave drag racing to the drag racers, and enjoy these cars as they were meant to be- fun cruisers!
It's like bringing a 1000hp+ muscle car to a touge racing
I thank you for supporting the 86 platform as it meant to be. A lot of reviews always complain about the lack of power. This isn't a car about power, its about handling and becoming a better driver. I hope you give it to someone who will cherish as much as you did.
Matt Botelho Couldn't agree more. My girlfriend and I, who both drive this car, agrees that the first upgrade we'd want would be automatic wind screen wipers. Because driving turny roads in constantly varying rain with manual control kills all that potential driving joy..
hmmm thats actually a pretty good idea :D
Matt Botelho people who complain that this car is slow can't drive. But, such is the nature of keyboard race drivers.
Chris Rader even those that have owned one or even driven one did not like the power. but again they were looking for a different car all together
You really need to understand the gear ratios so you know how to get the most power out of it stock.
I don't have any trouble getting up most on-ramps, which people always use as an example to make our car look slow.
Thank you for fixing the audio, small detail, but I think any uploader deserves props for quickly responding to their audience.
Agreed. earned my sub.
pudniskool by fixing an audio issue?
6 inch?
Sev nice profile pic
Miguel García, thank you good sir, may I say that you also look dashing on this fine summer day!
As an entry-level affordable sports car I’ve always thought the 200-205hp was impressive for a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder. You’ll find very few that match or top that.
Had to unlike this comment because there’s 86 likes
A minivan T-boned me in my FRS, totaling it. I got a Mustang GT to replace it, just so I could tick "American V8" off the bucket list. But every time the road curves and snakes, I miss my FRS. It was a revelatory car. It should get more love.
Luigi de Guzman My first and current car is a v6 07 mustang. And for some reasons even though I have never driven a lighter car in classes similar to the Miata, FRS, etc, I can feel your pain.
I want to know what its like to dip in corners like its nothing at 40-50mph. It must be bliss......
Desmond Harrington the lightness and balance of the 86 platform makes it incredibly satisfying to drive hard. You don't accelerate fast, but you find yourself hanging on and getting into a rhythm. I will never not recommend it as a "fun" car. Bonus: it was a lot cheaper to run than my Mustang.
Luigi de Guzman | That's awesome. Just listening to you is getting me excited. Has my heart pumping lol.
I know I'll get in a FRS one day. Hey, maybe you should get a coilover kit for your V8? As well as have someone corner balance it. I read from guys that they love it; it stops the dips during launch, hugs the road, and they haven't even added adjustable anti bars.
It won't be as balanced as the 86 of course but I'm sure you would love the feel of the new set up.
Unless you have other priorities right now, like me.
Desmond Harrington mine's a 2017 GT with the performance pack. I don't want to drop the ride height any further than stock because I'm going to start scraping a lot (steep driveway, dodgy pavement etc). Plus, I don't mind the stock suspension for "GT" type driving.
Planned mods: square tire setup, probably 285/35/19 all around. Maybe lighter wheels. Might also do some intake and exhaust mods to make a rough approximation in sound and feel to a Boss 302.
The long long term goal will be to save up for a house with 2 garage spaces. Then I could get a light car to go with the heavy one!
Luigi de Guzman Wow nice! I assumed you had the old S197 l. Cool. Sounds like a good plan. I wonder what your "light" car will be haha
I agree 100%. Also, I'm the odd duck, as I sold my '14 Cayman S (981) & bought a '17 BRZ Limited. Everyone thinks I'm crazy, but I can have 99.9% of the fun in the BRZ that I had in the Porsche for a fraction of the cost. HP is not for everyone & I appreciate not reaching terminal ticket speeds every time I come out of second gear now. Just ordering my coilovers, wheels/tires & the BRZ will be complete!
TheVaughnShow noooo !!! Your channel motivated me to get a 2016 Cayman GTS (you also helped me decide that I wanted a 981 over a 718), a shame that you sold the Cayman :(
I could never do what you did hahaha Porsche are proper exotic sports cars....
Which coilovers are you getting and do you have the performance package on your BRZ?
Yeah you are crazy.
You can thrash, drift, mod, and drive the 86 to the 10s without breaking the speed limit (also did I mention drift?!). Not so much with the Porsche. Plus you can haul 4 passengers or a generous amount of cargo (for a sports car) in a pinch. Can't beat $/driving fun.
This was a very concise and honest review of this car. Having owned a 2013 frs for nearly 3 years, I find it uncanny that I have experienced every quirk and issue mentioned in this segment down to the gas cap loosing pressure. I will be anxiously looking forward to your next choice of vehicle. Thank you again for your passion and dedication to auto journalism. I sincerely believe that Everyday Driver is by far the best representation of the craft currently available in this medium.
I've got a 2013 and never experienced any issues. Never had a check engine in 50k miles
@@StevenStGelais Hey man has the car given you any problems since ever since from this comment that has been 6 month ago? lol
Everyone complaining about the FRS/BRZ/86 being slow must never have taken a corner in this car. I autocross mine and constantly beat Corvettes, Mustangs and GTIs. All I have is sticky tires. Try and push it in the corners like he said in the video and you'll find out that everyone else is braking and you are passing them. There is more than one type of speed.
I agree. I'm ripping it on back roads with a lot of curves and cars that are much faster can't keep up on the bends.
Yes, late braking and high carry speeds is where this car shines. It gives you a lot of confidence near the limit and the car never feels like it is out of control. The harder you push it the better it get. If you bought this car to race at street lights you bought the wrong car lol. But take it on a winding canyon road and it will reward you.
Autocrossed mine too. Hella fun! Was quite interesting going from a 08 M3 to the BRZ, but I never looked back... until I was forced to sell due to an overseas move. :(
How does it do against experienced 370z drivers? I've seen a number of 370z's on full tracks keep up with porsches in the turns, not sure on short courses like auto-x.... about to do the front swaybar+bushings on mine, otherwise it's an okay car that doesn't leave me pissed off/embarrased in a straight line, the stock brakes were completely garbage, so I went 2 piece rotors/motul 600/lines/flush, and after about 3 months they're bed in and beg for punishment. Used 370's are cheap, so I'm surprised they don't have more of a following.
370s can keep up with the 86s in the corners, and leave them in the dust in the straights to be honest, but they are pretty heavy and not as eager to change direction because of that. That's the number one complaint against them. They can keep up in corners but you have to have a lot of balls and nerves of steel because they just don't give you the confidence at the limit that the 86 does. I guess it just depends on what kind of driver you are like you said.
Cars in which you can use all the horsepower every time you drive, are the best!
Current beater/commuter is an AE111 Sprinter Trueno. 2300 pounds with 163hp. So much more fun revving through the gears in lightweight cars! I do miss my old BRZ.
I think all family sedans can meet your standard. You can definitely use all the HP from a Prius :D
+Jay Lyons From bz-r to brz aye
Just like James May and his Turbo powered Fiat Panda.
Facts 👍🏼💯
This is my dream car . Its so beautiful
Just can't stop thinking he really looks like Trevor in GTA.
Thomas 😂😂😂
I actually love the interior of this car lol
Honestly, I do aswell. While i can see some points people bring up are justified, I am just very pleased with the things you actually touch alot while driving. Steering wheel feels awesome, the alcantara seats feel awesome, shifter and handbrake feel awesome, pedal position is amazing etc. I don't care if the plastic silver wheels of the auto climate control don't feel amazing, i literally touch those once at the beginning of my trip. :D
I;m 6'4" and found it very roomy, the miata on the other hand, was impossibly small.
Me too, everything I actually use regularly feels right. The Steering wheel with no fruity controls, the cruise control out of the way, it feels like a car meant to drive. The upgraded climate control stuff feels fine. The Subaru sound system needs thrown out and shot. As far as room and comfort, I'm a 6'3" fat gun toting American, and I fit great and comfortably inside. It's wierd how well it fits. I'm sure I've gotten many disbelieving stares from onlookers in the Wal-mart parking lot as I pry my fat out of that tiny car. I love the leather padding on the inside of the foot well, and the way the seat hugs my fatness. Other than that, everything this guy said hit the mark. I would buy this car again in a heartbeat, because as a fat family guy, I can't justify spending 60k+ on a sports car just for me to enjoy, as I know I'd be keeping that extra 30k+ from something to better my wife and kids. My only regret, is that I still haven't rolled my blubber butt to the track yet.
The materials are absolute garbage.
Go to the track man! I went to an instructor course and it was one of the most enjoyable things I've ever done.
Speaking as an owner of a 2013 BRZ I'd say your review and comments hit the nail on the head regarding what this platform is all about. As always, great content and thanks for the honest, straightforward, high quality reviews.
The torque dip to me is giving the car two modes: relax mode and give-it-a-go mode. Normally in the city or even high way I shift at 3500 (I even set the shifting beep at 4000). It encourage me to shift early and save fuel. If you are complaining about the torque dip at even fifth gear in the city the chance is you are already speeding. On the other hand when I'm in the mood to push, I'll use the 5000 - 7000 range and, in my opinion if you are on the track and somehow you are below 5000, then you are shifting too lazily
I agree man, I often shift below 3000rpm around town because if I kept going it would mainly just generate noise
meanwhile i change gear in my bmw around 2000-2500rpm for city driving... its NA and got 300nm of torque from 2200rpm
Yiyang BAO I
The torque on the 86 down low is plenty for comfortable city/suburb driving. I don't need more cuz there's always cars that go so slow in front of me no matter how good those cars are. I haven't pushed my 86 to 5000rpm yet cuz I'm still breaking her in...
I owned an original ae86 and that thing was slow as hell, I'm talking any decent human being on foot could beat it light to light. But when you got into the corners, even on shitty tires. It shines. Oh, did it shine...
Damn. Lucky man you are.
Yeah everyone calls this thing slow. I ask them do you want to go for a drive in my '97 Impreza? 140 hp and 140 tq with power sapping awd! The turbo ones were fast of course.
Initial D entered the chat
You’re full of shit.
@@yaboyg2049 *Me has entered the chat*
I love my BRZ. Had it since new in 2014. Driven daily in Colorado. Haven't had one issue or a rattle which I expect to no longer be the case when I get it back from the body ship from having all its hail damage fixed. The damage was so bad they had to replace 1 fender, the hood, trunk and roof. I miss it and can't wait to get it back. I plan on keeping the car for a very long time.
It sounds like this car has such a good personality
This entire review is how I feel about my FRS, with the same issues. And with suspension, tires, and tune and it gets close to my Cayman
Have had my 15 brz for about 4 months now and my wife and i love it. I am slowly doing the things you have recommended in the past for them. Already put 18" rims with sticky tires, drop in k&n filter and changed the stock tube to a carbon fiber smooth tube. Tomorrow I am getting the nvidia n1 cat back exhaust put on and eventually will change the header and then a mild tune. It is my wife's daily driver so not looking to do anymore than that but we love the car. Have taken it on tail of the dragon, when it still had the stock tires, and it was a blast to drive there and in the smokies.
Love your honest updates and comments on the car.
Parted ways with my 17 BRZ this past March. In the time I owned it I enjoyed it very much. Looked great, sounded good with my exhaust set up, and was so fun to drive. Child number two came along and I felt it was time to get a 4 door. Enjoying my WRx, but I have fond memories of my BRZ.
I have this car, and one my favorite things is the dirt simple three dial cluster, and no touch screen.
As a fellow 2013 FRS owner, I loved this video! You're dead right - sticky tires are key!
Ridiculous Tip Time: There might not be a button on the trunk, but there is a keyhole (it's under the lip of the trunk at the upper-right of the license plate). Awkward as all get-out and almost no one knows it's there (because it's virtually worthless).
I will have owned my Ultramarine FRS for 5 years at the end of the month and I love it as much now (maybe more) as I did when I bought it.
By the way, I bought UEL headers from FT86SpeedFactory because of your videos! Mad props, guys! :)
Great review! Always love the long-term non-biased reviews of a car, saves a lot of us consumers time and money on making the decision on their next vehicle.
You guys do great reviews. You give us real information and don't treat us like 10 sec attention spans.
my mom daily'd a brz for 8 yrs starting w a '13 and i drove it a lot (10s of 000s of miles)
i disagree a lil abt the INFAMOUS "TORQUE DIP" tho
i always thought it was probably there for emissions which gets the car out the door
but also
it made u rly earn it to drive it "spiritedly"
u rly needed to make sure u kept it above 4700 or it would punish u
which was fun, esp w the stick
incredible car
just totally magical feel
lots of noises for sure
and the 90s controls was kind of extra magic on top; kept it all very clean and simple and usable and not distracting
love the long term serieses thx yall
and it had a ton of torque before the dip, so u were never struggling to start movign in normal driving - just u rly need to shift if u wanna accelerate more than 'barely'
which is kinda fun
Just a quick note - keyless entry "limited" BRZs have a trunk button above the rear license plate and on the fob. Also, as Todd has pointed in other videos, power and torque dip are solved with header/tune. ---- '17 BRZ PP owner.
I think I ended up with about a 18 ft-lb gain around the 4k range with a tune. Definitely changes the way the car feels.
Thanks for posting these long term reviews. Helps to know just how good a car is all around. Looks like sooo much fun.
Finally a long term on the 86. Great video, hyped for your next car Todd.
Maybe the best review...of anything...I’ve ever seen. Everything I needed to know, concisely presented.
I recently traded in my '13 FRS base for a '17 BRZ Series Yellow. I must admit the quality does seem to have gone up. The brembo brakes are amazing, the torque dip is slightly improved; albeit still there. And the new 4.3 rear diff really adds to improved acceleration. It would say, even though it's not a new generation, it was totally worth the upgrade. Plus leather and alcantara seats are amazing.
Still getting one....it's one of my dream cars....I fell in love when a friend of mine took me drifting in the back roads of Maryland in hers and boy did I have a blast.
There is no downside. Drive my BRZ year round (in Cleveland) So fun! - Thanks for the great commentary.
Those gauges on the base trim are quite possibly the best part! My son and I just bought a 2019 BRZ premium for project car and we just sit in that thing and turn dials. Asmr dreams come true. F all that other noise in the limited.
I fixed the torque dip with a UEL header, E85 and a tune. Night and day difference. This is how it should have come from the factory. The surge all the way to redline with no torque dip feels amazing. It builds, builds, builds and then you get a nice punch near redline exactly how an NA car should feel like. What this car needs is about 30lbs more of torque in the low to mid-range, which is where most people drive the car. It gets old having to redline every gear to keep up in traffic lol. There's a lot of theories in the forums going around as to why the engineers left the torque dip in there. It has something to do with the high pressure fuel pump's design. Supposedly it cannot keep up or transition smoothly when the ECU switches from the port injectors to the direct injectors around the midrange rpms where the toque dip is at. In an effort to solve this problem you can advance the cam timing to get rid of the dip, but then you get this really loud intake resonance that sounds like marbles in a can so the NVH guys probably did not have a choice but to keep the dip in there
If you want to fix Torque get a custom Diff. I put a 4.88 in mine and it makes a world of difference. (along with headers and a tune of course.)
Yeah short gearing goes a long way as well the gears are a little too tall from factory it doesn't match the powerband at all. You wind up in the torque dip at every shift during normal driving unless you redline each gear lol
Don't even need the E85. Just the header and a tune. UEL is great for that boxer rumble (as long as you don't get a Borla version 1) and you're really only losing a few horses over the EL variant.
Yeah E85 is not necessary to get rid of the dip. I only use it because it adds power along with the header and because all we get here in Cali is crappy 91. It feels like and probably is 87 lol Data logs always showed a bit of knock on 91 too which caused the ECU to pull timing. On E85 I don't show any knock even after hard runs and extensive heat soaking in traffic with intake temperatures sometimes reaching 130+.
They shouldn't have installed two type of Injector. They needed to put a Direct Injection with a VVTL-i, make it 20 valve instead of 16valve and a Higher Precision Fuel Pump. Direct Intake from a designed hood scope and a 4-2-1 headers from the factory. How's all that sound ? I should have made 250hp with this setup and we haven't add in force induction. Let me be blunt, just think about the Honda S2000 (224Hp) from factory and that was a decade ago. No Force Induction
Hey, I just want to point out - The reason the 2013 BRZ is more expensive than the FRS is due to a list of features it has that FRS doesn't offer, one of those being the trunk release at the trunk. You complained it doesn't have that, but it does, your model just doesn't have it. Great video!
I personally like the 90s styled interior I really love going back in time in cars but I can still have modern commodities.
Great review. I had to wait 6 months after ordering my GTS and four and a half years later have 90,000 kms on the clock. My only rattle was the well known rear parcel shelf issue. Within 2 months of ownership I took the car from Central Queensland to Bathurst for the 12 hour race, Phillip Island for world Superbikes, Avalon for the International Air show and to Tasmania where I did all the fantastic Targa Tasmania roads. All up 10,000 kms in one month. My only change to the car has been to fit 225/45/17 Continental Sport Contact 5 tyres. The car has performed faultlessly with no issues. I have a quiet chuckle to myself when I see comments about the 86 being gutless. The people making these comments have obviously never driven the car on a tight, challenging road. I still love this car.
I LOVE my 2013 BRZ! Open Flash Tablet tune, a Borla Touring axle back exhaust and I'm as happy as can be! A little rattle and yes the crickets but it gets 30mpg and I have fun driving every single time I get in it:) Would absolutely buy another.
j_mosk 30 mpg how ?? lol i get at the most 20 in mine
I had mine for 3 years and old sold it because I had to move overseas and I ended up buying a R32 GT-R. Really didn't want to sell it. It had absolutely no rattles and the bluetooth always worked; granted I replaced the antenna with a Perrin stubby. I constantly heard others having issues though, so maybe I was just lucky. Figured the stubby would have made it worse. I raced mine for the full period of ownership and the tires definitely make all the difference! Definitely can still have fun, as said. Crickets suck. No getting around it. Averaged 31 mpg as well, which included track days. Replace the stock header, get a new tune, and enjoy the mid-range again! :) . My biggest pet peeve would probably be the sun visor. Never seemed to do what I wanted. Oh, and the passenger window 1-touch function hardly ever worked on the first push.
I have a 2016 FRS. No rattles or any unwanted noises. It's quiet when I just want to cruise, and its loud when I'm ripping it on back roads. As for crickets, it depends on the gas you're putting. If it has no ethanol, no crickets. The 91 from Shell solves this.
The 91 at the gas station near me I bet has ethanol cause i always get worst mileage there
I had my fuel pump replaced under warranty due to the crickets over a year ago. It never returned.
There isn't any gas in my area that does not have ethanol in it including Shell!
I have 162k miles on my 2013 six speed manual. I drive from south central KY to Louisville to work every day. Over half of it is on well maintained twisties. There are really no cops out here but you have to watch out for deer. The result is that I did my first brake job at 142k miles and there was still pad left. And I've been through 8 sets of tires.
It's like racing to work every day. With the factory tires I did a lot of drifting, but most of my tires were Michelin PSS's so it was pretty much on rails. The G forces actually make me nauseous sometimes. It is the best bang for the buck sports car on the market, IMO. Other than tires, I've kept everything stock.
I don't think of it as slow at all. I needed performance and decent gas mileage, and I won't touch a turbo. I consider it the perfect mix of power and economy. YMMV.
BTW, regarding the interior, I LIKED it because it is retro. It kinda reminds me of back in the early 70's, driving my Opel GT. Except this car is a LOT better. BTW, I have no rattles or noise, but the interior is not quiet. The back right rattle is the spare tire tools under the floor mat.
The one thing my car did that ticked me off is that I used to get at least 75 miles of driving after the "low fuel" light came on. Then one week I ran out of gas TWICE at 35-40 miles. Turns out it has two tanks and it seems a lower hose between them is clogged.
Subaru Bluetooth is terrible in general, while I've never had problem using Toyota's. That's coming from me as a BRZ owner, and former Corolla owner, and from using the radios of friends and family Lexus/Toyotas and Subarus over the years.
‘16 Daily driven for more than a year now and I’ve had no problems what so ever. Been reliable, fun to drive and surprisingly rather practical. Love the car and will most likely keep it forever.
Thank you for this video. Will be purchasing my first official car and it will be the FR-S. Been watching videos left and right. Pros and Cons and I absolutely fell in love. I'm so excited
Thoughts on FR-S being first purchased vehicle?
We've recommended this as a first car as well as a first RWD sports car. The 86 and the MX5 miata are incredible cars to really learn driving and use in any situation. If you get one with a manual transmission it will teach you a lot and be a blast to drive. We hope you get one! Thanks for watching.
Tj Buenavides same! First car intended to be a used frs manual
BUY ONE. I bought a 2015 FR-S last year and there hasn't been a day where I've second guessed my decision. In my opinion it's a wonderful car to own for the price point and it's also relatively cheap to maintain. As a first car you will not be disappointed. BUY MANUAL NOT AUTOMATIC YOU WILL BE MISSING THE POINT IF YOU BUY AN AUTOMATIC
Congrats man, it's a great great car.
Did you end up getting this car?
Tysm for this video 3 years later
Did anyone forget that the 86 is made for drifting? 🚗
Don't forget tofu delivery. ;)
@@RedheadButNotReally eyy
Not very good for low speed drifting on stock tires but it slides out easy just doesn't have enough power at
No, it's made for cornering. They put thin wheels and hard compound tyres to allow it to powerslide and "drift" a bit to get it to appeal to the younger market better, i've seen proper track day setups of these cars standing toe-to-toe with much faster, more expensive cars easily. You know, until a straight, but that's not where the car lives.
@@andrewg4412 exactly why they put the boxer in it. To get the center of gravity low for cornering. Not for drifting.
I had mine for 5 years now and I still in love it
Last year I did a road trip in it. Canmore - Calgary - Great Falls - Helena - Idaho Falls - Salt Lake City - Page - Las Vegas - Death Valley - San Simeon - Monte Rey - San Francisco - Oregon Coast - Seattle - Vancouver and back to Canmore.
A Dream trip in a dream car.
@@cat7371
Idc your comment too. KID
i just sold my 13 frs and bought an 08 s2k. i'm very happy with my decision.
nice!
humble rc Good choice! They are both great cars!
Much better car, overall.
Better car IF you want a 2 seater with limited cargo space. IF you want a convertible. IF you want a 5-10 year older car. FRS is much more practical if you need trunk space/emergency seats and a hard top.
Don't forget IF you want to worry about blowing your diff every time you try and launch it. :)
I like the platform very much. I'm a Cayman S owner, and Todd is right. For the money and the performance of having a "fun" car, the BRZ/FRS is tough to beat. In the escalating price of the sports car market segment, this is a breath of fresh air. I'm not sure who coined the phrase " The best performance improvement you can do to your car is "The Driver". I've seen this many times at track days. This car puts many people in the sport and market that would be otherwise out-priced in these days of expensive cars. Drive what you love, and love what you drive ! If you really love cars, you'll have a great experience.
86 Family! Proud FR-S owner
Everyone hates on this car, then they try one and either change their mind, or hate it more. It's not everyone's car but it's so damn good. I love mine, and I'll never sell it no matter what!
Thanks for the very informative review! I’m looking to replace my aging Honda Accord but Honda today suffers from a lot of QC and reliability problems, so, I thought to go with Toyota but the Camry is not my style-I stumbled upon the GT86 and it looks great and it’s a Toyota!
nailed it on the dot. Driving up and down vasco everyday is a dream in my car. I've shut down so many faster cars in the corners. Puts a smile on my face every time. You can't get a DRIVER'S CAR with this handling for this price. I don't regret the purchase at all. I just got my oft and ofh and the car feels and sounds great
Live in Alberta Canada.....daily drive our frs year round....it's the most fun in the snow with a good set of winter Nokian's on it😜
I've had my 86 for about 2 years now. Not the fastest sure, but man driving this baby around curving roads is so much fun. Is super stable as well
5:46 sweeeeet 🖤
There was a recall on the fuel pump for that issue, you can have it replaced for free. I had it done, and it solved the issue. Highly recommend it.
I wish I had a car like this myself. I haven't hand anything fun to drive in overa decade, and life kept knocking me down, even before the virus, and I just miss being behind the wheel of a light sports car. Feel like it'd be the most selfish go fund me I could do.
u can get these in the pre owned market for a very good price. And it being a toyota these babies last long as well. I am planning on getting one as soon as i get my stupid life in order
got a turbo kit on my brz, and now it checks all of the boxes of what people want in this car. great handling, and now has about 320 wheel hp reliably for 10s of thousands of miles so nobody can call it slow. I think this is a great car.
Love the exhaust sound.
Although not a fan of this platform I do have to admit that the follow shot from 7:20 till the end of the video does display probably the best exhaust note from any 4-cylinder. Gotta love the Boxer for that.
The slogan for this thing should be "love at first curve". I had the fortune of driving one in anger on some local back roads and it was magical. It was a 2017 so I think they managed to tune out that dip. It was quick enough for me with a passenger and the A/C going. And my daily drivers are a 650cc motorcycle and a G37!
I still think they should punch the motor out to 2.5L as that is free power (no weight, no cost).... but aside from that it's pretty much perfect. I'm definitely going to look at one when the G's time is done.
future62 thats a cool idea but subaru would never do that. This car will die out at the end of its production life in 2022 with the NA 2.0. Sad thing really
It still has the dip (even check out the dash display on the limited BRZs to see a "live" graph of torque and RPM), but the gearing ratio was changed. Feels great.
future62 I own a '17 86. The dip is still there, but as others have said the revised gear ratios and final drive have made the effect less prone. That being said, I'd still love a bit more torque, but a header and tune can fix that. I think the power is fine, but that little bit of extra "punch" is something that I think will transform the car, at least.
for what I use it for.
Yea I was surprised; the power really wasn't bad. With bolt ons it would be enough for me. And it was actually livable on the highway. Definitely better than my Civic or 350Z were.
I've been hearing a lot of 86 owners (quite a few come into my work) say that 300 - 350HP is the sweet spot for daily driving with the occasional trip through twisty back roads. Any more than that and you may as well go all out and only use it for the track.
I actually really appreciate this video very much. I recently just purchased a 2013 ZN6 GT86 and was worried about the heavy engine sound but glad you covered up noisy High pressure fuel pump and I was worried it was something bad.
yess! great episode thanks guys!
at the time when i bought mine, i had only about a year of driving experience and a month into owning my FRS, took it to the canyons and fort my first time, I felt so comfortable and confident in my driving because of how great the car steers. After getting BC coils, good rims and tires, its even better
hahahah those ac knobs are from toyota yaris 2009
....so what?
That's a good thing, if they break you can pull one off a yaris
Still driving my 2014 whiteout MY13. 10 yrs strong! Still break necks on hwy.
Car noises and rattles can easily fix with a exhaust upgrade or the stereo upgrade.
I just want to say I've been watching your reviews on this car for years and I really enjoy your explanations and common sense observations.
this is a great review, everything you described is spot on.
The other thing is it sounds great. A piped and tuned boxer is quite magical.
Thanks for the video. All i hear is slow this car is slow. Never does anyone talk about the handling.
one of the greatest youtube videos my eyes have ever seen
I was halfway through and you killed it!
had my BRZ for 2 years before i traded it for a wrx. the review nailed it. I just needed the turbo 4wd life :/ but i miss my BRZ on every corner.
worst is all these boy racers wanting to race these cars. who cares. it wasn't designed for straight line speed. I am reffering about other cars wanting to race me in my na frs at every light. never had challenges with the turbo thank God cause it's annoying af
I feel like i am still going to accelerate my 86 (2 weeks togo) off lights like a bat out of hell, most people around me go real slow off stoplights, even in a lousy sentra I am faster off the line and to what ever the speed limit is as quick as feasible. Fuel economy who gives a damn when i just put a smile on my face.
Yup. I beat a FRS once with my Impala lol, morons. Same applies with idiots with sc300/400s, those things are a boat.
Jimmy Peña I'm referring to other cars wanting to race stock 86s. i never had douches trying ti race me when i spooled the turbo. sorry you had that incident. not all 86 owners are like that, just young ones
F C that's my experience. I still had dealer plates on my 86 and everyone and their mother would pull up trying to race. Tesla Model S--all sorts.
The thing is... If ppl think the car is so slow, why are they always trying to get us to race them?
Not only that I've had a few ppl see me having fun on my own in the twisties and try to do the ricer fly by and they can't always keep up even in these Z cars everyone praises so highly. The car keeps momentum very well.
Inkawgneegrow it's because a lot of people who own these cars (at least where I live) like to show off in them and rice them out, they also will do the typical Honda "rev my engine really loud and skirt off type stuff." I drive an old 1986 z31 and the same thing happens to me where people try to race me, most of the time it's either a Honda Civic with the front bumper ziptied on, or an 86 variant, the 86 is a nice car but the people who drive them (at least where I live) have such huge egos and the amount of cosmetics on their car is not even funny.
Excellent, clear-headed commentary. Also, i really like that copper paint. GLWS
I’ve dailyed 240s and of the such my whole life I just got an st and yea it’s “quick” but I really need my real wheel drive thinking about trading in and picking up an older frs/gt86
I driven a Holden barina 1999 model across Australia to get my hours done quickly, and I felt very comfortable driving 14 hour parts in the car, I've never been in any other car so I never knew what other cars were like. I came back to Perth from Brisbane and Dad took me to a Subaru dealership, he got me to sit in his favourite car, the wrx sti and it was so much more comfortable than the barina, it felt a bit to tall though so he got me to sit in the BRZ, I'm in love, 1 test drive is all I needed.
it's cheap Reliable. Comes with manual option , Fun to drive.
also has 4 seats! what's not to like about this car TBH?
Dude, Grand Tour level production values on this video.
Part of the reason people may not complain about the Miata as much as the BRZ is that it is in fact significantly faster than the BRZ. 0-60 comes half a second faster. Plus, with a drop top 45mph feels like 60mph.
You're definitely right about the drop top feeling faster.
That half second is mostly because the miata will hit 60mph in second gear, while you have to shift to third at 58/59 in the frs. They're with in tenth or two in the 1/4 mile, where both cars are pretty useless anyway.
Of course Todd's car will most likely have a slightly raised rev limit with his tune, so it'll probably hit 60 in second anyway.
That was also a good point. I suppose if you continued to feel like you were pulling along, and the sound was great, it would make you feel like you were faster.
The ND feels faster because it is, but not by that much. The difference in off-the-line acceleration, besides the 86/ BRZ torque dip, is the ND's fatter total area under the power curve, better gearing, better clutch feel ,and stickier OEM tires.
You're selling? What is your next car?
0.5 seconds is 'significantly faster'? Rofl.
The car is such an incredibly beautiful design. The lines and proportions are perfect. I wish they would produce a new generation with more power and higher quality interior
Just don't test drive the 370z before test driving 86 and you should be fine
Thank you for recognizing that the point of the car is not to win drag races. I loved my BRZ. I always told people it wasn't fast, but it sure was quick.
Wich Tyres are you using?
Totally agree about the low torque, so many modern cars suffer from this. It flies if you rev the bollocks off it, but that spoils the responsiveness the car needs.
Do you mind if I ask why you're selling? I know you love the car but are you looking for something else with more comfort/power? Or do you not plan on replacing it any time soon? I'm going to miss your updates on this car!
He wants to get a lotus elise, he brought it up in the podcast. From the sounds of it he just wants a faster version of this which appears the elise would be.
Any reason he didn't want to turbo bringing it to 270bhp? Then it would certainly be a faster version of what it is.
isn't the interior of the elise even worse?
If so, then that's kind of a nonsense argument since he complains about the interior of the 86 here.
Made In Machines not that reliable. I miss my turbo 😢
spike021 A bone stock Elise would destroy an a heavily modded 86 on track, an Elise does 1 thing and that is being a really fun weekend car. The 86 is designed to be a daily car, most people who own an 86 will definitely daily it. It just happens to have an interior that is trailing it's rivals so his opinion is still valid. On top of that, he and paul has mentioned the Elise is awful to drive on the highway but it decimates almost every other car in terms of driving fun.
I own a GT-86 (same as FRS/BRZ) since nearly 3 years now, and that's not a car to drive fast, *that's a car to have fun*... and there's no better car than this one to have fun!
Every day, I've got a big smile on my face as soon as I'm walking to my car...
I had a FRS, loved the car, with a super charger i got 452hp out of it. it was fast and fun... I traded it for my current Focus ST and in every way the interior is better, the ST is a better daily driver. the main reason i traded.. The FRS was over priced. i dont think its a cheap car, because i think it should be less then 20k new. i was stupid and got one of the first FRS off the lot.. in auto and stupid extended warranty, bespoke radio, wheel locks, all the stupid deal add ons, stupid dealer alram. and all that crap paid over 30k.. wasnt worth it. and 10000% truth, wouldnt have been worth it at 25k. my fully loaded ST3 package with heated seat and all, 27 otd. That said i miss the FRS and i plan on getting another one.. especially since toyota helped me out buy killing the Scion name and killing the resale along with it. they going around 11-12k here now. though i only want a shellto put a LS3 in it..
Thomas Clark Selling for 11-12k Manual transmission I hope...Where are you located at, the cheapest I found in my area is 14k.
Las Vegas, they still have those guys selling... trying to sell at 17-18 for 2013 with 70k+ on them. That's why they still have them. But at least 2 have changed hands under 12k here due to the dealerships offer 10-11k. I run the FB vegas86club page for the last 4 years or so. one guy posted his at 12.5 the other day in the group but has taken it down. he claims toyota only offered 9.8k they are dropping in prices and ragged ones are abundant around here
Thomas Clark 70k miles 2013 model for 17-18 wow what a rip off, I haven't seen anything that grimey on the east coast, hopefully I can find a deal from 10 - 12k on the East Coast.
Thomas Clark - 457 hp on a supercharged auto trans FRS? I call bs.
there is a video dyno on my page, that was 421 i think, we went to the smaller pulley and refined the tune, i have the dyno sheets.. call BS all you want lolol. the video is with the standard KW high boost pulley, the 452 is their ultra high boost pulley bumping from 16.5 to 19.5. Not that i need to justify to you or really care if you believe me or not. I worked at FTeightysix now called 86speed when it made those numbers. it was well known car in the 86 community.. soooooo..
absolutely agree with you. And yes I lost every single mini drag race at the lights to SUVs, TSI golfs, you name it but can beat them everytime at the corners!
15k for a 13 frs with 65k miles is stupid.
Thatdudeinorange you're stupid
It's actually a pretty fair market price. Not the best deal but definitely not the worst.
Heard this one in the motorcycle community, "it's more fun to drive a slow bike fast than a fast bike fast" and it completely transfers over to cars especially like the 86/FRS/BRZ
Expensive car to insure.
I own a brz and gotta say that everything that was brought up is pretty accurate for sure! The thing I can't get past is the immediate response of the steering. I've never driven a car that handles like a brz. Almost feels like I'm driving a very nicely balanced go-cart.
As for the speed, I feel it is just right. Especially for those of us that can't afford a higher priced sports car. It may not be a car to win races, but one to truly enjoy the thrill of driving
All I'm going to say is 370z 0-100 in 5sec, 0.97g, better interior and handling, imo better looking and of course same DNA as big bro GTR. Everyone praises the brz/frz through their technical jargon saying its a great handler, well many sport cars handle well, Just because practically everyone has now bought one doesn't necessarily make it a good car I think it's just been marketed really well. There is nothing unique about a brz, I would even take a old Nissan Silvia, wrx, prelude over it. The era when sports cars actually sounded and performed above expectations.
The Z is old, fat and ugly, with a worse interior. $30K barely gets you into the stripper model; you need to get the Sport for $34K to have something passable (which is what the Z is on a track -- passable). It's a shadow of its former self; not a sports car so much as an Infinit in sports car clothing. I get sad just looking at it.
i bought mine in Australia and got it for 30k it is the sports model with leather, heated seats, xenon headlights, sat nav, bose sound system, interior is nice trust me. as for it being ugly i disagree do u call a porsche 911 ugly? if you look at the rear of the Z it has similar proportions. it even has similar design cues to the brz being a 2 door sports coupe. Anyway please enjoy your brz no direspect intended.
In the US the model Z with sat nav and leather is over $40K (vs. $30K for the ND or BRZ, so really not in the same class). "Ugly" is probably too strong a word. Bloated, maybe? I just think it just looks too big for what it is, but maybe that's because it is built on a 2+2 coupe chassis, not a dedicated 2-seater platform. I never considered the Z when shopping; maybe that was an oversight on my part, but I find the plasticky, dated interior a turn-off, and I consider 3,500 lbs. is too heavy for what it is. It's still a nice car; enjoy it. I just hope Nissan keeps it around and does better with the next one.
I had a 350z, 370Z and today a BRZ. The 370Z is really fast , but a littebit to heavy in the corners. Indeed the interior is very nice. THE BRZ is the best car to handle, neutral in the corners.
I can believe you actually stated that the 370z handles better than a brz.
I just started watching this channel about a week ago. I was enjoying the FRS episodes and was hoping they were going to keep building on it. I didn't realize that it wasn't a permanent feature of the show.
this car at 22 grand would be perfect at 26 its just to much it a great little car it just to damn much
Marcos Aruca ever heard of the used car market lmao? These are 15- 18 all day long
Patrick Thornton no shit sherlock im talking about new
Yup they are too expensive with that crap engine.
26k USD is fair. My European GT86 was 36k€. But mine came fully loaded. FRS versions look quite stripped compared to what we got.
Still the car almost has almost no competition when you compare it to what is available new. Its an excellent daily, for the HP the fuel economy is amazing (especially for us Europeans where gas prices are crazy), looks good, and sounds good.
If this car had a small turbo from the factory it would be killer. But I guess this would mean less WRX's and MK5 supra's would be sold.
I've heard these go out the door new at 22. Sticker isn't what they always sell for.
I've taken my 2013 FRS on a couple trips through the Rockies and it is a blast to drive. Mine has over 50K on it and I don't have any rattles. It is noisy though without any insulation. That doesn't bother me. I've packed all my camping gear for 2 people in it for a 2 week trip. People have commented about how much stuff I get in that little car. I had a great time chasing and being chased by a BMW. He could pull away on the straights but I could gain on him in the curves. In the lower gears and high RPMs it performs well going up mountain roads ... or down. The biggest annoyance is getting caught by slower or constantly breaking cars.