"If you think it's expensive just leave, don't try to argue about it or ask for a discount". I think people in the U.S especially are so used to arguing with those providing a service . The customer is always right concept has really made them this way.
Wait I'm an American and trying to get a discount or complaining to them about prices in this type of setting sounds completely foreign to me, people actually do this?
@@deddrz2549 Same. Even here, I hate sounding like a cheapskate or haggling about things. If you know what you're getting into, you know what to expect, or look into the prices ahead of time
This seems to be rare with Japanese people. The frankness and just saying outright what he thinks. Japanese people as a whole aren't like this, they think one thing and tell you the opposite. It's that *real and fake face* about Japanese society. :)
As a foreigner who lived and worked in Japan. You will almost never get asked to leave anywhere as long as you show you have truly put in effort to learn some Japanese and to understand Japanese cultural/social norms.
I used to live there from 2009 to 2012 and the second I walked in they would say no foreigners and I would just turn around. It didn't matter how much Nihongo I could or could speak
Saying "no foreigners" is horrible. For 90% of situations, wouldn't a sign saying "must speak Japanese" take care of the problem? It doesn't alienate foreigners who are at least somewhat familiar with the language and customs, and it also doesn't sound super xenophobic. I think everyone would understand that in a tiny snack bar, the requirement would be to know the language, since you are taking up a valuable seat that could otherwise be occupied by someone who can partake in the experience.
I sometimes wonder if people use the sign, "members only" on their bar (in Japanese) to show foreigners that you need to speak Japanese. I am not sure, I should ask, but sometimes I wonder (we talk a little bit about this in our top 7 video if you are interested!)
@Human Being well, you are allowed to make rules for your own establishment (shop, restaurant etc.) I actually think it's OK and does not have anything to do with racism but rather with preserving ones own identity while living in an other country. And actually, I have never met a Japanese person in my country who tried to communicate with me in Japanese. Even when they come for holidays they usually know a few sentences and use Google translate and the like for everything else. That does not always work out very well either but at least it shows an effort and they do so naturally. Just ask yourself why English is the language everyone is supposed to know and how difficult it is to learn for Asians. Imagine Chinese would be the world language and ask yourself how you would feel when everyone talked to you in Chinese even though 5 years at school were just about enough to learn the grammar and develop a shitty pronunciation. Then throw all the different dialects in the mix (and yes, english dialects have to be learned to be understood as well). I think it is a simple matter of respect and politeness to learn at least some of a countries language before visiting.
@Human Being I get your point! For me there are three different cases here: Language when visiting foreign countries, racisim in ones own country and experienced racism in other countries. I can only speak from my experience with mainly Japanese, Vietnamnese and Chinese people and those were all very conciderate when it came to the language thing [I'm from a non-english speaking western country where most people can't hold a conversation in English. So trying to speak the language is essential when you want to visit and experience a little bit more then scripted tourism]. If they ever felt descriminated they didn't say so, so I wouldn't know. I am by no means trying to sugarcoat Japan [as a country] when it comes to racism [against foreigners and everyone who looks different]. But I had a lot of talks about this topic with Japanese friends. A lot of them did not even know what 'racism' was so it seems to me that there is not only a lack of awareness to the problem amongst young people but a maintenance of the problem through tradition. Now, all the people I talk to are young [as I am] and interested in cultural exchange [otherwise they would not bother to write/talk to me] so naturally, my demographic is small and biased - I am hardly speaking for all asian people and I am aware that the general concencus is different, but all the people I know, once they are aware of the problem, have their own thoughts about it which usually tend towards progression and change. For the restaurant example; that one just doesn't fit into any category for me. My personal opinion is that it's not ever good to open an establishment that only welcomes one specific type of person. But I don't think I'm in a position to judge as someone who lives in the country they were born into. And I just don't see this case as racism either. In Indian Koreans are the 'foreigners' no matter how long they've lived there. And as a minority they probably face bigger problems concerning racism. So if they want to open a restaurant for Koreans only, in which they can meet, talk the language etc., that should be respected. [It's not like they are actually racist against Indians, otherwise they probably would not live in India. And it's not like Indians didn't have any other restraurants they could visit, either]
@Human Being No. I would TOTALLY see it as racism when Koreans IN KOREA deny entry to Indian people [for example]. But there is a destinction to make between racism and exclusion. I said that I can only respond to the example you gave and I would say the same thing regardless of what country we are talking about. We actually have a lot of establishments in my country in which I cannot enter [because they are exclusive to miorities in my country, because they only allow people of the same religion or country in or because they are gendered]. And I don't feel descriminated by that. I rather think it's sad that they [have to - which is debatable] excist. And discrimination is never just a possibility if you LIVE in a foreign country. The Indian government let them in to build their factories there, now workers come who don't speak the language and maybe don't want to be involved in the culture [which is sad and makes them look like jerks but it's their reality nonetheless]. To be honest, I think your standpoint here which goes directly against two nations is rather racist as well. [And I never even spoke of Koreans, only in regard with your example. So where did I paint the notion that SK and Japanese people are innocent no matter the situation?].
@@passio-735 I find it incredibly hard to believe that a country with such a supposedly good education system would not touch on racism in a history class. The idea that most didn't know what it racism is incredulous sounding. Because even though it gets swept under the rug in most conversations, let's be real -- it may not be to the same extent today as it was before, but even many white ethnicities faced extreme hate and prejudice. Ask the IRA how much they felt loved. If I am forced to believe that an entire country's education system is a joke and never mentions Hitler, American Slavery, hate for Celtic people, Japan's issues with Korea, or that "Japanese" government is barely supporting the Ainu people and still ignoring Ryukyuan, and so forth -- vs you are bullshitting, I'll go with the latter.
I can definitely see where the bartender is coming from in this video, if you go to another country you need to be open and respectful abd I've definitely seen my fair share of rude and obnoxious travellers when I've travelled. But I do think places need to be clearer about service/extra charges at bars because if I had a random extra charge on my bill that hadn't been mentioned at all when I came in I might feel like I was being scammed. I've had similar experiences and it does leave a sour taste in my mouth afterwards if I can't understand why I've been charged and would put me off going to a place again.
I do think scamming happens a lot (more?) in other parts of the world and that can be why foreigners are apprehensive...whereas it happens less (?) in Japan so people don't immediately see the need on being upfront...so yea, I agree with you. Japan might need to put more information out upfront.
Yeah... I've been in a situation where I had to pay way more than the service was supposed to cost because of extra charges that were hidden. It was in a European country operating through Euros and as a person for whom 1 Euro is like 5 Euros translated to my currency... it hurt a lot, knowing how much I paid for one meal. For me it was like 200€...
@@TokyoBTM Growing up in Japan, scams are definitely a big issue here. Not following people that ''give you advice'' or young guys and woman that tell you ''we'll make it cheaper for you'' (although this trick is often only used with young people) is the only thing you can do, if you follow them well, that money is gone cuz police won't help. However with bars like these, while they aren't scamming they often don't tell you or show you the extra charges. It's usually written on the menu but often even Japanese people won't notice it, so while it's technically not a ''scam'' it's definitely ''scammy''.
...if people are getting charged an “entrance fee” when they leave ... that sounds more like an exit fee. I could definitely see how that would catch people off guard. Usually in the US an entrance fee is genuinely that ... you pay to enter as you enter.
Yea it is a bit of an exit fee, but I think the comparison was used because the concept of that charge is closest to the concept of the US entrance fee, so perhaps easier to understand (because I am sure some people think entrance charges are normal in the States, where other people don't)
he said it's "like" an entrance fee. usually they charge you something like 500+ yen for a bowl of chips or pretzels. thus why they call it a "snack fee" very common in many drinking establishments. you don't have a choice on whether you pay for it or not. Some people get surprised by it since they think the snack is complimentary, and then they get surprised by it when they see the bill at the end. you can see lots of foreigners get super confused and butt hurt on tripadvisor reviews.
It's sometimes also called "table charge" and the "snack" you get is more of a gesture. The charge simply covers for the service you get. Since you don't tip in Japan I think people shouldn't complain about the tiny charge... as mentioned it is usually just 500~800Yen.
Sounds like a shakedown to ask for money as you leave if it’s not a bill for food or drink. That’ could be interpreted as extortion and the place labeled a “clip joint”.Th. price should be communicated at the beginning or money paid actually at entrance.The west had consumer protection laws.
He talks about people need to understand themselves, but in a situation u r not allowed to enter a place because u r foreigner, is not about understanding, it is about prejudice. And it is not like japanese dont get crazy when they drink!
I agree. If someone rejected you in America for being a foreigner or a different race it would NOT be ok. It's actually illegal to do that here. That's why we had sit ins to end segregation over 50 years ago.
@@TokyoBTM i think is cool what u did going to talk to someone about it, but it is more like u r trying to make us understand why we have to accept this and making them fell that their decision is correct, and not the opposite. They will try to justified, but it is xenophobia no matter how u see. When a japanese person gets drunk, they normalized. When a foreigner do that, they block them. He says he wants people to understand themselves, but he is not interested to hear, just the foreigners to accept his xenophobia
@@oimarcelolevi it's sorta crazy to me. Like if a Japanese person came on vacation to America they can go anywhere. If anyone tried to keep them out that would be considered completely and totally racist. I guess we are lucky to live in a society that is very multicultural and multiracial. I mean I couldn't imagine a business turning someone away for their race or culture. Same with sexuality. No business in their right mind would turn away gay people. It could destroy their business. People would boycott them.
It's a tricky topic that doesn't have right answers. In Spain, we are used to tourists whether European, Asian, or elsewhere misbehaving because alcohol is so cheap and the economy relies on tourists. Everyone agrees that basic manners and understanding the culture is important, but when Japanese tourists come here, we don't demand they speak Spanish or come with a Spaniard to enter our spaces (especially in the gay district). We would do our best to communicate in English, or use a translator because otherwise we'd be naturally called xenophobic. Japanese and other Asian tourists rightfully complain when racist bouncers don't let them into clubs without VIP passes for being Asian, but when they do it to foreigners, especially people of color for being stereotyped as troublemakers, it becomes a problematic cycle. I imagine that local people from Kyoto for example, must have the same frustrations as ours in Barcelona, but we recognize that no one can have their cake and eat it too. And as long as it is in the Japanese interest to welcome tourists in a globalizing world, eventually they'll have to suck it up, step their pussies up, and accept our differences as people.
That's very true. I have thought about this from other stores as well...like regular Japanese restaurants for instance. They have a good amount of clientele as is to support their establishments, so perhaps they're not thinking about other people (intentionally or not). I'm not sure. Interesting discussion though!
@@iparipaitegianiparipaitegi4643 they do however need to stop working their pre-retirement citizens to death if they want them to get kids so they won't have to rely on foreign workers in the future.
This reminds me of when I lived in Seoul. There are generally two areas where there are clusters of gay restaurants and bars. One area has a lot of gay clubs and bars that foreigners also go to while the other has restaurants and bars mostly locals go to. I am fluent in Korean but even so, if I went to bars in the local area people would sometimes say there was so more space in a restaurant and bartenders would keep suggesting I go to the foreign area since I am a foreigner. It kind of blew my mind how unaccepting the gays in the local area were, yet at that moment they were asking society to be accepting of them.
All I know is that if Bars here (Germany) would exclude all foreigners it would be global headlines calling those owners or even the whole country racist. It's a touchy subject after all these foreigners are still paying customers, if they don't know the rules print them out in English and put them on each table. So many people here in Germany visit and don't speak German either, hell so many people live here and don't even speak German. We can't force them to and we definetly can't discriminate them because of that, some of them speak 4 languages the country's language they live in might not be yet one of them.
Yeah I guess it's more reasonable to assume that someone knows a little bit of English than other languages because it's the language used in most international media. If a Japanese person walked into a German bar, I wouldn't expect them to know how to say "I can't speak German" in German. But I wouldn't be surprised if they said it in English
Yeah, I think that would happen in Canada too. Having said that, I think customers would get a similar response if they asked the bar to reduce charges or argue with the bill (that is 100% legit from a local perspective - not talking about actual crime). So I think that is where the conversation gets really complicated. But this is why I thought the conversation was interesting. Food for thought! Allows us to have this conversation right here.
@@TokyoBTM yes, I agree you wouldn’t ask for a discount on the bill unless something wasn’t provided or the food was so bad but even then it is the manager who would make that offer. I think what he is talking about is when they get this fee added that they had no idea was coming is the issue. I would not agree to it if I hadn’t been told this is our table service fee or club fee upfront. If you go to some empty bar that is small and not nice and just get a drink to be polite or your thirsty and then they hit you with a $100 fee no way. I feel like a was being robbed and taken advantage of. I have been to many countries and the club tells you there is a minimum fee for a table. They also tell you that you are required to spend so much on drinks or food. If you feel your bar is worth a $100 fee then why hide it and sneak this in on the bill. Thank god I watched this because we want to go to Toyko but I would have been really angry if this sneaky charge came at the end. I can more than afford it that's, not the issue it is the feeling of being taken advantage of.
Hi Tokyo Tops! This video is about a "snack bar". For those who do not know, a snack bar is a small, intimate bar, commonly found in Japan that can seat around 10 people. These bars have what is called a "system", which is a set price that customers need to pay when coming to bar. This price includes the first drink and free snacks that the customer can eat. The main purpose of these bars are to have lively chats with the "mama-san" (bartender) and develop a sense of community with the other customers around you as it is more of an intimate setting when compared with bigger bars. The "system" concept confuses foreigners at times when they visit Japan, so we ask Ko-san at the end a little more about it! Thanks for watching!
Kinda reminds me when people used to tell me *happening bars dont allow foreigners* Some do but some don't. I've been lucky enough to be allowed to go into 2 happening bars in tokyo. If you've never been to one, it's an interesting experience. :D
even if i get the points from the japanese point of view, i find problematic that a country can allow to deny a service to foreigners because foreigners. that feels very uncomfortable to me.
@@johnross5098 i think its the same either way, if you look and sound not japanese they'll probably assume. Its funny how the states are so effed up but you would never see that there in most places these days...
@@megansalt yes true asf, arent there almost 7 or 8 states with new laws supporting it? It's so sad. Canada has our own problems but it's extremely illegal here, I think having these things supported by legislation is a huge issue
I understand that some foreigners have caused trouble in Japan, and that's regrettable, but the way all foreigner get stereotyped is even worse. I've been living in Japan a while now and it's rare that I encounter foreigners behaving badly. Now ask me how many times I've had to dodge some random 日本人's vomit on the street. Or the drunk salaryman arguing with train station employees and then passing out on the train taking up a whole section.
@@TokyoBTM that’s some fancy bullshit you just said there. Its not “a minority ruining it for the majority.” Its racism. Every population has problem members. Foreigners get blamed for everything, when it’s more likely it was a Japanese person doing it.
@@jendubay3782 Exactly. It's really just being super prejudiced. It's more accurate to call it xenophobia than racism though. Since a lot of people in Japan less so have a problem with other races, and more so outsiders. Still fucked up though.
This bar owner keeps it real and tells it like it is. The fact he is open about escorting and just has the resourceful pizaz to run a bar equals Would live for a TV show or anime about him!
I can understand the anxiety around foreigners, and I really like Ko's open-mindedness, v. encouraging, but I still think that xenophobia, especially towards people of colour, is a thing the Japanese government should really work on. Especially with their stance on covid - bit embarrassing how the government claimed elitism, and are now in a state of emergency, yet still have the audacity to blame foreigners for everything despite keeping their borders regulated since last year. I'm glad there was domestic public backlash towards that stupid rule about 'ooh don't eat with foreigners' - nice to remember their are lovely people out there. Still can't help but be concerned, hopefully will be studying abroad in kobe on a uni program (I'm doing a Japanese degree ahah) if things calm down by october, but as a South Asian I'm not feeling too great about it, even though I really want to look forward too it ahaha :( it's so weird how Caucasian people get almost positive discrimination, while anyone else, even other East Asians are treated negatively (perhaps even more so than other foreigners even), at least systematically.
There are a lot of things that can be improved upon, but as you said, at least there are lovely people out there who help fight back. I hope you have a nice time when you are here for your uni program!
Honestly I know little about Japan, but I used to be upset at how the Paul brothers ruined the reputation of foreigners, the suicide forest thing wasn't the only disrespectful thing they did in Japan.
I remember visiting one of these small gay bars in ni-chome with Japanese friends and the "mama-san" wanted to make sure I spoke good Japanese before he let me in. In the course of the evening, he went on to describe the year he spent in the US with great fondness. I'm pretty certain he didn't visit any gay bars in America that would only let him in after making sure his English was satisfactory. These places are exclusionary, discriminatory, and often downright racist. They are also pretty dull, on the whole, and should be avoided. Spend your money in more welcoming establishments.
I was reading your story thinking that he wanted to check your Japanese because he didn't speak English. It was interesting to then read that he spent time abroad so probably spoke English but still wanted to check your Japanese...were the other patrons only speaking Japanese?
@@TokyoBTM Yes, I was the only English-speaker (apart from the mama-san!), and the bar consisted of just a counter, so presumably he wanted to create an atmosphere where everyone could chat with each other in Japanese. His bar, his rules, I suppose, but even so it's appallingly discriminatory. What would he have done with a non-Japanese speaker with East Asian features? Kick them out after letting them in because he didn't initially realise they weren't Japanese? This was about 15 years ago, so maybe things are changing, but there are plenty of bars that are much more fun and welcoming than those dull counter places where you're forced to chat to the mama-san, and I would always choose the former over the latter.
@Phil P, very interesting. We have gotten some other comments about similar things. I feel (hope?) things have gotten at least a bit better in recent years!
@@honyakupjp Asians can distinguish each other by facial features mixed ancestries aside. Even fashion sense & hair styling can be a giveaway - but the internet & instagram fashion has made this less reliable.
Also "snack bars" in USA you usually pay the entrance fee before you get in. I think it is a lot about setting expectations that if people pay up front they understand but when they have to pay at the end they have to complain. I think if its charged up front its much easier :)
Agree on that you should respect the tradition of the place you visit. It's really tiring if every foreigner think "in my country...." than forcing the local to change. Also agree on the entrance fee. If you think too expensive, just don't go inside.
I love his energy so much he is blunt with it I could listen to him talk for hours. He is very correct foreigners should have manners, no matter where they go especially Japanese a place where manner is key.
@@Debbiefromcompliance it's not hard to ask 'konbanwa. watashi wa nihongo ga dekimasen. Iidesuka?' Funny demanding japanese to be cosmopolitan when one refuses to learn even a little bit of japanese to show a little respect. Plus, i understand most of those bars are relying on returning patronage because that is the most sustainable income for their small business. They can't _afford_ to lose loyal customers to passing travelers.
I was so curious about the whole gay Japanese escorting business since I've seen ads for boys in 2-Chome and I'm glad he gave us some insight into it. Hope you guys will get a chance to interview more gay men in the sex industry (particularly gay porn and gay for pay actors) because it's interesting to hear how it all works, like what type of customers they get, what type of boys do customers generally like, etc etc.
It is a no brainier, to as a respectful custom to at least have a basic phrases guide knowledge for whatever foreign country one is visiting. They will indeed appreciate one trying to do so. Simple respect. Love that watching anime since forever, have gathered a longer japanese word vocabulary. On a recent visit to Romania, not knowing the language, did the basics with them. Rewarding experience. Thanks for the video! Another establishment to add to the visit list! And I see that they carry Passoa Passion Fruit Rum! My favorite! ❤️ along with Bacardi of course ☺️
I love rum. Spiced rum is my fav! Glad to hear your visit to Romania was rewarding after learning some basics! I'm sure anime has given you some Japanese vocabulary too!
I totally agree that some foreigners who travel to Japan (or other countries) can be rude or insensitive towards locals however, I guess the one problem I have is the generalisation of all foreigners as being problematic. Definitely foreigners can be little shits (I recently felt embarrassed at a restaurant when a foreign couple disrespectfully wore the traditional clothes that the restaurant was offering) however, similarly the Japanese aren't all saints here or around the world. I think if rules were clearly mentioned in establishments patrons would follow them. Unfortunately I can't ignore the need to avoid confrontation, thus opting to use blanket rules. Honestly generalising all foreigners comes across as racist or exclusionary.
@@TokyoBTM I agree 100000000% conversations are important especially because Japan will undoubtedly continue to have more and more foreigners. Thank you for being a part of the conversation. Your videos are an awesome resource!
@@Dibs1978 so what the couple did was after wearing the Indian traditional clothes, after getting drink the guy poured alcohol on the girls chest so that it fabric was see through, they started dancing wildly and the guys pants ripped. It was a terrible display.
@@joshazriel8007 ahhh, so not the fact that they wore traditional clothes, but what they did and how they acted while wearing. Thanks for clarifying, that makes perfect sense.
I guess the problem with the entrance fee is that sometimes there is nowhere mentioning it, and then suddenly it is in the bill. Then the customer might think they are being scammed. And I think it is rare to have entrance fees in bars, they are more common in nightclubs. Like you guys said, just stick a warning at the door and problem solved! I was also shocked by the 100 spending XD I don't think I've ever spent that in a bar/club/restaurant in my life lol
I think you misunderstood the 100USD maybe? What he meant: "Come with the attitude of spending 100USD at a bar per night and you'll be fine", not that you have to but that's what he'd consider a healthy budget at a bar. From personal experience I can say it's a healthy budget, since at most I drink/snack for around 8,000JPY and the rest will get me home safely.
Hahahah 100$ gets you about 2 maybe 3 cocktails in Iceland. Drinking in Japan was fun and cheap so I ended up trying a bunch of higher grade alcohol than I would generally spend money on in Iceland.
It would be nice to drop into a gay bar while visiting Japan for the first time, it would not be the #1 reason for the visit, however, the mere fact that such prejudice exists toward gay foreigners within the Japanese gay community, makes me question why I would bother to visit Japan in the first place, esp. given the many other Asian countries to choose from. Hard pass. Thanks for that.
Thanks for the comment Robert! I think what he was trying to emphasize was the mindset to have when going to a bar. He doesn't expect people to be perfect...but to try something - anything - even a hello in Japanese, or to come in with the mindset that bar charges here may be different from other parts of the world. I do think there are a number of bars that will approach bar culture more similar to that in other countries (probably Western) and with over 400 bars in the gay district in Shinjuku, you'll have lots to choose from. We are planning to cover more bars in the future so that people can watch are videos and see which ones might be suitable for them to visit when they are here. Thanks for tuning in! Hope to see you again!
Gay or straight, travelling requires to be mindful of the hosting culture, especially when the latter deals with social behaviours in a rather differently manner than yours. Showing no regards towards the matter can come off as extremely rude and I really don't blame them.
@UCeFEXB-EJJGw87Oyto4xV-Q but what's rude and intolerant also depends on someone's culture. It's not easy but you should avoid applying your cultural lens when faced with foreign customs.
Robert, that's a generalization. I'm a foreigner and have never gotten rejected from a gay bar in Tokyo. Just be polite and learn some Japanese beforehand and you'll be fine.
How much Japanese would be expected of foreigners to learn in these circumstances? Because to me it sounds a bit unrealistic to expect foreigners to learn a lot before going on vacation? Maybe a few super basic things like how to say thank you? But then again I live in Denmark where everyone will talk English to foreigners, even if they try speaking Danish 😂. Are Japanese uncomfortable taking foreigners by the hand/ explaining their culture and habits?
From my personal experience, I feel if you learned "thank you", "hello", "sorry" and "I don't speak Japanese", you would impress so many Japanese people and everyone would love you as a tourist. The point Ko-san was talking about was not so much about not being able to speak Japanese, but the lack of even trying. Like in Denmark when foreigners would try to speak Danish, they may fail and then you speak English to them, right? Same in Japan, but I'm sure it feels nice to Danish people to see foreigners at least attempt.
I think the video should have underlined more what a "snack bar" is. These bars can be extremely tiny - like maybe 10~20people, sometimes less sometimes more. So they really care about what customers come in, as one person can stink up the entire mood of the place. Some places target a very specialized customer group. I have heard of a bar specializing in "gay volleyball players" and you can/should only enter if you are a gay volleyball player. Most Japanese also research the exact "specialization" of each gay bar, so they know they will feel at home there. So, I think foreign tourists need to be aware that not every bar is for them. For some bars you really need to become a regular to really enjoy what its offering anyway. So to answer your question: I would say, that if you don't speak Japanese - go to a bar that has English-speaking staff, is known to be foreigner friendly or a club where there is a mixed crowed of people. I don't think foreign tourists need to enter a random snack-bar to either get rejected or have a terrible experience because everyone ignores them because they don't know how to engage with you.
Yeah, I maybe we should do an introduction to snack bars! Seems like this question didn't come up in our other bar videos before but did here, so good opportunity to swing back and introduce the concept next time.
I went to a lovely bar in Osaka with the most basic of Japanese knowledge, but the staff were wonderful and really welcomed me and we got by with phone translations. I think because I tried my best to be polite and engaged with other patrons, they were so lovely, and I ended up talking to the owner and he gave me his business card. I definitely want to go back in the future!
Mate i tried so hard to speak Danish, I don’t even think I did THAT bad because since I’m northern there are a few more similarities in pronunciation of some things, but everyone automatically I responded in English. I never stood a chance
He made a good point about SM. I always say I struggle to understand SM, yet my husband told me a while back he was shocked I did not understand, as I like to be told what to do when in bed. You see I thought SM was just about whips, embarrassment, and pain. (The parts I never understood) While that may be true for many, for some it is just about the domination or relinquishing control, or feeling needed. PS. I still do not identify as being into SM, but have now learnt to shut up and stop judging
Because the term is BDSM- bondage *domination* and sadomasochism. You’re into domination, but not the bondage or sadomasochism. Pretty easy to understand.
@@jendubay3782 many things in life are easy to understand IF one wants to try and understand. Just because the explanation is in the acronym does not mean the average person would jump to a point of understanding.
It’s all about trust and relationship. We jokingly describe as S- Service M-Manzoku (satisfaction) In the relationship M, submissive take a lead and set a limit and Dominant serve🤣
Hearing him talk about his experience and how the escort industry is set up was so upsetting. He even said that if working at a bar paid the same as being an escort no one would do it. I think that says a lot.. These types of industries take advantage of peoples desperation and fuels the idea that people can be bought. Don't like it one bit! He seems happy with what he's doing now at least and that's really good to see! Hopefully this video will help to spread awareness surrounding this subject. 🙏🏻✨
Although I do live in Japan, I'm not SGL (Same Gender-Loving), however, for whatever reason, the great Algorithm saw fit to recommend this video. And you know what? I'm not mad. Learned something new. Thanks for a different perspective.
I found the service charge very strange when I visited Japan from the UK where you never pay to visit a bar . I am so used to popping into a bar for one drink . I realise Japanese bars are frequently very small and intimate and need to cover costs .
There are some bars that just require you to buy a drink when going in but yeah, those are more catering to foreigners and foreign standards. Others have the service charge (the majority).
when in Tokyo I was surprised to pay a service charge, because I’ve never had to pay to be in such small bars, it’s absolutely normal to pay to get into big clubs internationally! BUT we were always very respectful and are never afraid to spend! It’s super challenging to navigate Nichome without a local tho, you’d be popping into a million little bars that are already full for hours if you didn’t know better!
I was refused service at a restaurant in Asakusa and given the excuse "Japanese only" which felt kind off bad, especially as I was sober and just wanted to eat. In Western Europe, at least, having a sign with no foreigners allowed might result in a bar closure by authorities for xenophobia or at least getting "boycotted" by the locals in case you reach the news.
I am straight and I don't know why I watch this video until the end. The bar owner is really cute and charming. I can't keep my eyes off him while he is talking. The topics in this clips are so interesting. Thank you for the open information.
The bartender was super cute! I’m glad you made a video about this. I will be visiting Tokyo in March and am worried about going to a bar that doesn’t welcome foreigners. I’m doing my best to learn basic Japanese, but hopefully I won’t have to experience this
Although he said that foreigners are drunks and troublemakers, I think he is being polite in his justification only. Many places do not accept the entry of foreigners and make this very rudely clear at the entrance of the establishment. I didn't have to be drunk to get this bad impression of some places I went. many bars do not allow entry just because you are foreigners. Not only in Tokyo but in Osaka and Nagoya too, it's sad because I like Japan a lot, but I've never been in this kind of situation in Europe or Latin America.
I think he makes a great point about snack bars being a community and for deeper convos. So if we cannot engage in this culture because we cannot communicate in a basic manner then it’s kind of wasting our time/experience and also frustrating for the owner as they won’t be able to host properly or may not have enough seats.
You should see anglos coming up in drag bar in Montréal expecting everyone to speak to them in english .. what a pain in the ass, it kind of justifies why Japan is so racist in the first place as well
@@qcpresto Japan is a homogeneous country and no, racism is unjustified no matter what. If you have a bar/store in a tourist zone is expected that you can understand basic of English or have any kind of firm to help with it, since will be easier to communicate with your consumers
Your guys' videos paint a picture of Japan that I was totally unaware of. It totally makes me want to visit. At the same time, it is a bit odd that they expect tourists to speak a language that only exists in that one country and would only be useful for their vacation. I've visited places where I did and didn't speak the language and I've never seen a place that said "Only 'speakers of the local language' allowed here." It sounds like they have totally rationalized it and I guess it could be a little difficult to adapt to foreigners but that's just how it is. My Chinese partner will haggle for literally any purchase he thinks he can get away with here in the US but if it's not possible they aren't like "Oh my god! That was so disturbing! Let's ban all Chinese people to prevent that from happening again." So I completely want to visit and enjoy the interesting things you guys present but it wouldn't kill them to understand that Japanese is literally the hardest language for most European-language speakers to learn. There are not many cognates and there are THREE ways to write it!
Thanks for the comment! Yeah, I can totally see where you're coming from. There are lots of bars that welcome English speakers (and others), so I'm sure you'll have a great time when you are here!
100% agree. As a foreigner who may one day decide to go there for a holiday/vacation for a few weeks at the very most, trying to learn Japanese would be unrealistic.
I speak French, German, Italian and Spanish, I have learnt a bit of Japanese, but who needs Japanese outside of Japan. You can't expect English people to learn every language when they visit a country. Most people learn English as it's truly universal
Talking about sm being less common in north america made me, as a masochistic, bottom, sub, laugh really hard. Idk if we are more rare, but there are conferences and groups that meet monthly, etc. This was very educational. I'll never be able to go to Japan, but I like learning, thanks for being so open about your answers.
The 腹が立つ part in the preview made me feel so worried omg But yeah, being open to different sets of values, manners and those extra service fees is really important. I think that communication is key and it has to be an effort from both sides. Not everyone will learn Japanese to visit Japan as a tourist past some really basic sentences, but also tourists shouldn’t expect that everyone will speak perfect English there. I still don’t really know what a balanced middle point would be but it’s something that worth being discussed and addressed more deeply.
Thank you for the deep content! We agree - it is both sides working together. I think that it is hard to define what that middle ground is, as you say, but I think if your heart/intention is in the right place, it'll work out.
I also feel like many older or more conservative tourists expect Japan to have a similar amount of “tourism-service” as other parts of East Asia, like Thailand or Vietnam. Asia is sadly still looked at with an unhealthy amount of racist stereotypes. Admittedly the reverse also happens…
Another amazingly and refreshingly frank insight into Japan. You guys are incredible in how you not only source these fascinating elements of Japan, but more so how you moderate them. An excellent video. Thanks so much.
To summarize, tt clearly does not make me want to visit any of these gay bars in Japan. They seem pretty rude. Do those owners adapt as much to local traditions and manners when they visit Europe or North America? I have never heard a Japanese tourist speak Dutch in Antwerp or German in Hamburg or Italian in Milan or French in Paris. They speak Japanese or some English and that's it!
I know a lot of Japanese people who choose not to travel because they cannot speak the local language and/or English, so I do think it weighs on a lot of people's mind here. I can fully understand how this video may be off putting but I assure you that there are so many great experiences to be had here so encourage you to try out a snack bar sometime! The point of including his talk was not so much to put people off, but to have a frank discussion about it, because often people are rejected without any explanation (right or wrong) and Japanese people tend to politely refrain from talking about it, which can result in the same problem happening over and over again as there is no dialogue happening.
It’s expensive. When I was a kid (20 years ago), I dated a girl who worked at a really nice bar. She told me to bring 100USD to pay; however, when I left, the guy at the register told me my bill was 200USD. My girl friend ended up having to pay the rest. Japanese hostess bars are expensive. Especially the really nice ones.
I really enjoyed this interview. It was very informative. I also like how up front and honest everyone is about how some foreigners act when going to other countries and not showing the proper respect for the place you are visiting.
Thanks for the insightful interview. The owner is straightforward and open, very refreshing. Although I have never been to Japan I have heard of foreigners being turned away from gay bars since the 1990s. Then the 'reason' that was that foreigners brought AIDS. Now the 'reason' is language or behaviour. If not speaking the local language should be a reason then here in the Netherlands we should ban 99% of the world population but we accept that English is the common tongue. How would Japanese feel if we would refuse them at bars or clubs if they don't speak Dutch? I think there are other reasons then the ones mentioned here. I would encourage you to investigate further on this topic since this discrimination is putting me off to visit Japan.
Please watch our other bar videos! We have a playlist and it shows the variety of places that are available to visit here. I am sure you will find one that you'd love - please come visit Japan, you won't regret it!
Just found this channel. I'm sure I am parroting everyone by saying this was refreshingly honest. I've already shared this channel with friends. Thanks for the content.
previously when i travelled to tokyo and wandered into nichome i also didnt feel welcomed to enter as a foreigner. not having any english menu/signboards is kinda intimidating to us to even enter.
This was fun and enlightening. My experience years ago was that humility and politeness go a long way. The behavior of some westerners was appalling. When in Rome.
I travel a lot, and I always learn simple local greeting phrases, like "Thank you", "Sorry", "Hello", but it would be so hard to learn how to have a conversation in each country I visit in local language. I just don't understand why some Japanese people find it offensive when not talking Japanese. The bar owner spent two years in London and he said he still can't speak English properly, I am not trying to be mean but just to show that learning languages is not easy. Also, I find it uncomfortable rejecting clients after they enter the bar, they can put a sign outside of the shop, but telling someone to leave in front of other customer is so uncomfortable. I love you videos, please keep it up :)
I think the important thing for Ko-san was the intent. If you walked in and said hello in Japanese and then asked if you could speak English, I am sure he'd be fine. It is just the attempt that many people are missing (he finds).
@@richardmetcalfe920 True. I am talking about the fact that some Japanese (or any other country) find it disrespectful to not be able to speak in the local language.
Thank you for this video. It clears up some realities. But at the same time it scared the hell out of me to visit Japan, something I always wanted to do, but both issues of the cost of life in Japan and how closed the Japanese can be to foreigners have brought out my worst fears which have held me back from visiting. In the post covid era I intend to go spend a few months in Asia, and I am still mulling over which countries to visit, but your video reminds me of why some other Asian countries (like Thailand) always win out over Japan for the kindness and warmth of its people, and cheaper costs, for foreign visitors. I wish you could make other videos to change my mind… As much as I enjoyed this video, and congratulate you for doing this interview, it has not helped me to decide to visit Japan in 2022 over other Asian countries, and that makes me sad.
Awwwww...just want to clarify, you will most likely find yourself very welcomed in Japan. The services here are great, and people are extremely polite and kind. Bars saying no are usually hidden and really hard to find, they are like "small communities". Bars that are accessible and on the main street are very welcoming and kind to everyone.
Very well said about SM being about a relationship more than a fetish. You guys knocked it out of the park with this video. I feel by following the advice in your videos I will have an amazingly wonderful experience when I come to visit. ❤🧡💛💚💙💜🤎🖤🤍🖤🤎💜💙💚💛🧡❤
Interesting to watch this. Gay man here with a strong interest in Japan and Japanese culture (both contemporary and historic) and totally incapable of learning the language, it seems. I've tried numerous times over two decades. But the answer given here doesn't alienate me: I totally get it and respect it. It's actually just good to hear specific reasons given.
I"M SO HAPPY 😭😭 As a kinky person myself, I super appreciate the brief explanation of a dom/sub relationship, being in a relationship like this is all about trust, communication and power exchange, many people are only into non-sexual play too, more of a therapeutic purpose, where they can let go of worries and focus on the scenes ofc fetishes, kinks exist, and dom/sub relationships are not necessarily 'giving an exception to this person' as mama-san said, but I'm so glad they pointed those points out cuz to most people, they don't associate trust or communication with kink (which is definitely seen very important in our community) and non-sexual plays don't even cross their minds
The bartender is indeed refreshingly frank for the Japanese - he is giving the real answers. I lived in Kyoto 20 years ago, and there were not many gaijin living there and the ones that did could all pretty much converse in basic Japanese. Actually I found as a gaijin I was a bit of a celebrity for the bar and they always gave me a discount! They were happy I could chat and join in with other people in the bar. I have heard that foreigners have really increased in numbers, and I doubt that special treatment is still going to happen, even if they do speak the language. And by the way I now live in France, and really it is no different here. You don't have to speak good French, but if you can say a few words it just takes you a long way. It is a real ice-breaker. It is difficult for Anglo-Saxons to get their head around that because they don't understand how stressful it is to speak in a foreign language, and when everybody expects you to speak perfect English it is much more so. What is slightly unique in Japan is its cliquiness, and particularly its version of it. Certain bars want to cater to certain types of people to achieve a certain amount of congeniality. It is hard for many Japanese to make the step into gay culture given the regimentations and expectations on them. So they want to make it as easy for them as possible. Add to that that profit margins are very thin, they need to maintain a loyal customer base. Given the influx of tourists and the importance of that market, however, that may change.
I never really got excluded that much during my time in Japan. Some people would avoid me at first, but once I show them I can speak Japanese they would relax and welcome me like any other Japanese customers. I do understand sometimes it can be difficult to deal with people when there are language/culture barriers.
Yes, especially at snack bars because it becomes like a small family. Their customers will be faithful and come back and spend/support the business. There's a nice side to that I feel...I feel people know me more here than when I was in Canada. In Canada, even at bars I would regularly go to, I felt like I was always just another face.
Was an exchange student in Osaka area and went to a drag bar with a show there I'd read about online. Was going to meet some people from another dorm there and they showed up way way to late, just in time for the second drag show of the evening. I just had fun, saw the drag show 2 times that night. But definitely witnessed a pair there that definitely didn't understand Queer/gay bar etiquette, also hogged the karaoke equipment kind of by singing a lot of songs in a row. Very drunk and American. Then when my friends finally showed up, a mix of nationalities, I definitely regretted bringing them a bit. Seems Icelandic bar culture is more like Japanese than I thought. That bar didn't have a service fee, but was surprised by one such charge at a bar by the train station in my neighbourhood, though I understood it cause it was a tiny bar with few seats and we got like a snack and such, but it was a surprise at the end but it wasn't very high so I didn't mind. Friends who I was with were more upset as while the drinks were cheap to me (from Iceland where alcohol is highly taxed) and I didn't mind the small fee for seat and snack. They were more upset about it. Also the Japanese were very vary of me at first at the drag bar but when I took 残酷な天使のテーゼ in the Karaoke a few of them dared talk to me in Japanese.
残酷な天使のテーゼ is a great way to break the ice with people! I once sang the Dragon Ball song in a straight snack bar and people warmed up to me instantly! hahaha
@@TokyoBTM as an anthropologist who did his dissertation with male sex workers, I look forward to it. Lesbian, non-binary and trans sex worker stories are even further marginalized, so when you are exploring keep an ear out for them too if they care to share! - Lots of 💕
All westerners are known the world over for being drunk trouble makers lol But I have to say a very good insight into Japanese life and in particular gay life there. And it doesn't seem expensive in comparison to say Montreal or UK London Soho bars.
@@TokyoBTM I'm from Hull in the north and an average night out at the weekend I would get through £60 to £80 just on drinking lol. Didn't include entry or cabs.
I'm glad he was blunt and I 100% get it, I used to work in the gay club strip in LA and the amount of people that act like toddlers that have no home training is insane, I've had people come in and get mad because we couldn't understand them because they don't speak English as well, and I think the perfect parallel in America in gay bars is Bachlorette parties, it's all the time, these women go to a gay bar and get so drunk, ruin shows, sexually harrass men at a gay bar and get angry because someone told them off for groping them and being a mess in a gay bar. It's one of those things where, if you are an outsider, that is not your space and it's your responsibility to learn what is acceptable there if you're going to go, otherwise, just stay home.
Oh I never thought about relating it to all those parties you hear about! But yes, fully agree! I think they would draw a lot of parallels! Thank you for saying so!
I really appreciate his explanation. When I visited Nichome I ventured from Tokyo Eagle to a quieter bar and was refused upon entering the door. Normally I’d call that racism, but I did do my research and I understood that these bars provide an entertainment style hosting that a foreigner wouldn’t understand so they save everyone involved the confusion and awkwardness. I get it. STILL (and I spoke about this to a very cute local) as a respectful foreigner who can handle his alcohol, I would loved to have witnessed an authentic snack bar even if I don’t entirely understand what’s going on, and the more that the etiquette is explained and shared, the more it can be learned and applied. Refusing someone at the door doesn’t make the bar any less mysterious and it also doesn’t make the bar any money. But I have seen my fair share of entitled (white) male tourists running rampant and loudly through the streets of Tokyo and fully respect their choice. I’ll finish with as much as I look forward to moving to Japan, Tokyo was the only place where I have been refused service and I’ll never forget that.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment David. There is a movement going on where establishments will make it more obvious which snack bars welcome foreigners I believe. I would like to cover that if I can sometime so that we can start recommending snack bars to visit because I would like you to experience a snack bar experience as well!
Why the need to share the race of these “entitled” male tourists. I’ve seen black American soldiers in Germany behaving loud and obnoxious. People are people., there’s no race that is better behaved than another.
@@dg1006 I have to mention race because in America people are refused service because the color of their skin. And Japan is the only place probably in the world where white people are refused service and that’s really the only reason this is a topic of discussion. Why are you offended that I mentioned the race of these tourists? Why is it when white people are accused of doing something wrong, they prefer to be generalized. I’m mentioning my experience just as you mentioned yours in Germany. So there we are. And the facts still stand.
oh! i remember "cover charges" here in the usa as money for entrance, but it was the first thing you encountered...it's been ages since i've seen it though. i would be surprised by what might look to me as an "exit fee" :-D. i suppose i'd be suspicious if it was a tourist trap only for foreigners, but if i knew everyone was paying it (like how everyone is handing over money for cover charges at the entrance) then it would seem less risk of shady business. though i remember hearing people talk about how to get into places without paying cover might just be being friends with certain people or being good looking, so then if i were in such a line, i'd be back to being suspicious :-) hmm maybe like computer games, night clubs went from admission fee to "free to play with monetization as you go"
I've lived in Japan for over 25 years. Please do not intake everything this bartender says and let it effect your perspective of Japan. To be honest Ive never been to a gay bar so I don't know how it is in the business, but i've been to many good bars all over the city and had NEVER seen anyone be rejected unless they were dead drunk and looking for trouble, and that goes for anyone white,black,yellow,cat,dog,and ducks.
Agreed! I think some people may mistake what he says as applying to everyone and every bar but in reality there are so many bars here that operate in different ways!
Another great video, its always interesting seeing what its like in Japan. I cant say id want to visit after all the videos I've seen but it looks like an interesting place.
Expect to pay 100 dollars in a tiny, ordinary bar where you are not even wanted? Sorry, that does not sound like a good deal to me. Oh, and you need to speak at least a little Japanese and there is no entertainment at all. So, all that and I need to pay 100 dollars for a drink. lol If I wanted to be used and abused, I could just read the comments section on TH-cam while drowning my sorrows in beer and probably save 90 dollars.
I can understand your point, but I also think that snack bars like these can also offer some great experiences. The mama-sans, like Ko-san here, are great entertainers and take care of their patrons, listening to their problems and showing them a good time. But I do agree that there is a difference between other bars in the world that can lead to misunderstandings. I hope this video helped shine light on it more though! Thanks for watching!
@@yangtzeling7468 you have to understand: what is being described in this video is basically one of the most *evil* things you can do in any other country short of being arrested. Imagine if someone described that in their country, you were required to wear outside shoes on inside your house. It feels like that, but it also has a flavor of insult to it, too. It’s like saying... “pigs wear shoes in the house, so you have to wear shoes in the house.” And you can start to see why the reaction is the way it is.
@@jendubay3782 In my other comments , I did mention that the Japanese are quite elitist in their own way ( just like the parisian ). I won’t label it as evil but they do have their own ways of doing things. They take great pride and to be questioned regarding their integrity is a great insult. This culture is something that a foreigner cannot fathom unless he lives in Japan . On the contrary, there are many westerners who take up living in Japan because the emphasis on politeness , consideration and just decent behaviour is so refreshing and welcoming.
As a non American, who lived abroad in other countries I kinda agree with the "no foreign" rule. Especially if you are just gonna be loud and disrespectful. Which tourists often are. I'm sorry but there's a huge difference between a tourist on holiday and a foreign trying to partake in someone else's culture. I was born and raised in Italy, so like, so many tourists in the summer and yes its great but can also be annoying af. And in places like queer bars especially. If you are not a local who knows what type of bar it is and what customs and rules are in place it can be dangerous for the staff and locals there.
Ahh I'm half Japanese, half Black, born in Japan, mostly raised in the States, but to many Japanese people, I look only like a foreigner (that beautiful melanin!!). I speak Japanese fluently and I've never been refused service in Japan. My American friends definitely report differently. I agree that it's wrong to generalize or hold prejudice against all foreigners. At the same time, a lot of foreigners don't know how to act!! The sense of entitlement is strong, phew!! One my of ex friends came to visit me when I was living in Japan, and they were so rude the entire time, I found myself apologizing to almost everyone we encountered. I tried to teach them but they were so resistant to it. One example was the escalator; I told them that they were blocking people by standing on the left, and they REFUSED to move. Said people could go around them. I was stunned. Then I pulled her to the right and scolded her 🤣 Don't be like this person!!
Our comment disappeared! But just wanted to say thank you for sharing as this gives some specific areas we can improve upon as our video needed more examples to provide some background as to why Ko-san felt the way he felt.
Love these episodes about the local community establishments. The owner is definitely fierce, I think there could be a great conversations with him. His aurora is rather strong for sure lol and really love how frank he is about everything. A few things he mentioned came as a shock but very understandable: 1. Prepare before you travel - People don't do that anymore but then local culture is a bit hard to prepare since not much has been written (but now we have this video to know more about snack bars
Thanks for the comment King Leung! Yes, I think this can help people make more informed choices when coming here and going to snack bars. I hope it encourages people by providing information as opposed to turning people away, but yea!
There's manners and people being rude, which I know happens in Japan (or everywhere else with tourists for that matter), but there's also the blatant discrimination and sense of superiority in Japanese society, and this video quite frankly was very upsetting and annoying about that: First of all Japanese tourists rarely take the time to learn another language in order to visit other countries, so why is it that a lot of japanese people (this bar owner included) feel like they can demand a somewhat high level of japanese fluency to visit japan? That's very asymmetrical. It's different for me to be able to order two beers in japanese than me being able to understand japanese signs saying there is お通し and what that is. In fact many such places don't even have a sign saying that. It's not that people don't give a shit sometimes, like Meng said, people are just not expecting a random charge when it wasn't mentioned upfront, when there is no sign saying it, him asking people to just "ignore random extra charges" when you go to a bar is very "WTF", i mean, I check my bills back home too, people accidentally charge the wrong table sometime and it's not fair to pay for someone else's mistake. Nor it is fair to expect that people won't have questions if you don't explain the rules This video exudes that arrogance too, like, people may try to learn a bit of japanese, but it's not like every tourist needs to learn every language well enough to understand these things in order to travel to a place, just not being rude if you're not understood or not understanding is the basics, expecting people to be fluent in every language and refusing to even try to accomodate someone who doesn't speak your language is quite arrogant. And I'm not saying it in the entitled "everyone should learn english" way some people associate with americans ( first, I'm not american, and I'm actually a polyglot who speaks a bit of japanese, so I try to learn a bit before I go because 1 I am good with languages and 2 I enjoy studying them), it's just the "try to be nice to people who decide to visit your country and try out your business. Also the implication that foreigners cannot have deep discussions and chill chats at a bar (my favourite activity ever) is at minimum discriminatory and quite likely racist, and using that as an excuse to "close the gates of communities off" to most of the world is quite something. It is pretty normal for tourists not to always speak the language so, yeah, some Japanese people have to tone down their arrogance and this guy is a prime example
Hi Miguel, thanks so much for the thoughtful comment! Yes, I feel this is a very complicated topic. I worked as a waiter in a restaurant for many years in Canada. When foreign tourists would come in and not tip (because they didn't have the custom in their country) the workers would get upset because, in Canada, tipping in that industry was a essential part of making a living. Not tipping would directly impact someone's livelihood. The waiters in the restaurant would say, "I wish people would learn about Canadian restaurant customs before coming to a Canadian restaurant". So while I totally understand where you are coming from - in fact, I have felt like this too before! I have thought, "why am I being charged this?" "Why I am being treated like this?" At the same time, I remember seeing the other side at home in Canada, the damage/upset that would result from people not learning about my culture, so this talk really gave me some food for thought. As for the language, yea, I think it is unfair to expect everyone speak perfect Japanese, but I think Ko-san was just trying to highlight the difference between people who come in and demand/expect Japanese people to speak English to them as opposed to asking if it's ok to speak English. I actually feel most Japanese don't expect people to speak Japanese and will happily speak English, in my experience though. On a final note, there are lots of really welcoming snack bars here with mama-san's willing to accommodate guests, so there are so many positive experiences to be had here! There are also tourists who want the world to revolve around them. I hope this video helps both bar owners and bar visitors learn about each other so they can have better experiences together! Thanks again and hope to see you around soon!
@@TokyoBTM That thing with finding the surprise charge happened to me when I was in Japan, too, and it wasn't too pleasant, it was only after I left the restaurant pissed off after being charged "something I didn't order" that I remembered that they pull this grift sometimes where they dont tell you they will charge you 10% extra and will not explain what it is. Tipping at least can be explained, as I have moved from a no-tipping culture to a tipping one and i understand it very well. As much as it sucks for waiters when people don't tip because they understand the concept, at least it isn't a mandatory surprise and it can be explained as "here in the US or canada it is customary to add a gratuity for your waiter since we get paid in tips a lot" instead of "Here's some mandatory number that I didn't tell you about and you're obligated to pay for no discernible reason, I just tricked you into it and hid it from you". Furthermore, again, as much as it sucks for waiters, people who don't know they have to tip are not racially profiled and told to get out very rudely in the US or Canada, I've never seen that, while being rudely kicked out of a bar in japan as soon as I set foot on it *has* happened to me. Dunno, the tone in this video matches a lot of the negative stereotypes about "anyone who is not japanese", and using them as an excuse for blanket discrimination. Tipping culture is a misunderstanding (a very sucky one for waiters, again), but at least no one is being rudely kicked out or discriminated against on the basis of their appearance.
Yeah, I can see your point. I think there are a lot of places that welcome foreigners with open arms! Hopefully we will be able to cover more of these bars as we go along so people can choose from a variety when they are thinking about coming out here!
I live in Poland, I never hear tourists speak Polish. They speak English, some try to talk to us in their own language (this one is a bit pathetic), but we're not assholes and don't deny people help or service because they're foreigners. Imho British, American Australian people should learn some basics since they don't have to learn English as their second language.
I'm hella late with comment, but.... I live in a place that's known for being a summer vacation spot mainly for rich people. So I 1000% get the "these visitors don't have manners can we just not let them in" mentality. A lot of the tourists that come here view people who live here as their personal workers. They just see the area as their vacation get away and don't really care about how they act. Plus the sheer amount of them is overwhelming. Obviously it's not all tourists, but its enough that I have quite a negative view of tourists. I have too many stories of bad tourists. My faith in humanity has gone down. And that's just here in the US. Bars in japan?? That get a bunch of annoying tourists that don't care to learn japanese or manners? If I was japanese I too would mentally groan if I saw a foreigner walk into a bar I worked at. I wouldn't turn them away, but I'd be on edge. Cause that's how I am here. I see a summer tourist and my brain goes "ew". It's not right, but it's very understandable
Love the insight you guys provide with this one. Hits the nail on the head. Can’t wait to visit. And from what he was saying. I think I’m gonna be fine. :)
I mean, I think when people go and become tourists abroad, they have a tendency to forget basic manners. Also, no matter what language one speaks, when they go abroad, they expect people to speak it. It is the tourist effect where for a while some people seem to develop a "main character of a telenovela" persona hahaha! What is unacceptable though is creating spaces forbidden to foreigners, put that in any other country and it wouldn't go under the radar for long and it shouldn't honestly.
Yes, I agree that all bars should be open to everyone, but I hope at least that this provides some insight on the struggles! I have seen the scene change for the positive over the years, so I feel it will continue to get better!
But I think foreigners also need to understand that many Japanese gay bars are not like foreign bars or clubs. The snack bars are usually very small and actually guests should come with an attitude of entering someone's home. The fact the bar owners are called "Mama-san" (in the best case) comes from the fact they really treat their customers like family. Many places even just let people in by introduction, meaning that a regular customer has to "vouch" for the new person coming in. The conversations in a snack bar can be very deep at times and I can understand you don't necessarily want someone in there that doesn't fit with your regular customers.
@@bodo887 Maybe I got lucky then, probably my twink body at the time when I hit up a few bars in Shinjuku. I'm also reserved, so I'm not going to cause a scene and upset the bar owners.
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"If you think it's expensive just leave, don't try to argue about it or ask for a discount". I think people in the U.S especially are so used to arguing with those providing a service . The customer is always right concept has really made them this way.
That's an interesting point, could definitely have something to do with it!
Wait I'm an American and trying to get a discount or complaining to them about prices in this type of setting sounds completely foreign to me, people actually do this?
@@deddrz2549 I've seen people complain about prices all the time, as if the cashier can just magically alter the price or make an exception.
I feel it’s due to poor parenting which results in loads of self-entitled spoiled brats.
@@deddrz2549 Same. Even here, I hate sounding like a cheapskate or haggling about things. If you know what you're getting into, you know what to expect, or look into the prices ahead of time
His frankness is enjoyably refreshing. I learned quite a few things from your interaction.
Definitely! he was very unfiltered...it was a bit intimidating 😂😜
@@TokyoBTM Hahaha! He might have been a dom master in his past life.
😂😂😂
This seems to be rare with Japanese people. The frankness and just saying outright what he thinks. Japanese people as a whole aren't like this, they think one thing and tell you the opposite. It's that *real and fake face* about Japanese society. :)
@@TokyoBTM u crushed him didn't you?
As a foreigner who lived and worked in Japan. You will almost never get asked to leave anywhere as long as you show you have truly put in effort to learn some Japanese and to understand Japanese cultural/social norms.
Yeah, I think it is about the effort...it can go a long way
As a foreigner living in Japan who speaks fluent Japanese I’ve been refused entry to many establishments
I used to live there from 2009 to 2012 and the second I walked in they would say no foreigners and I would just turn around. It didn't matter how much Nihongo I could or could speak
You clearly haven't visited many places. In the nightlife, there are many shops that kick you out immediately before you enter the door.
Could you imagine if that happened in a Western country?
Saying "no foreigners" is horrible. For 90% of situations, wouldn't a sign saying "must speak Japanese" take care of the problem? It doesn't alienate foreigners who are at least somewhat familiar with the language and customs, and it also doesn't sound super xenophobic. I think everyone would understand that in a tiny snack bar, the requirement would be to know the language, since you are taking up a valuable seat that could otherwise be occupied by someone who can partake in the experience.
I sometimes wonder if people use the sign, "members only" on their bar (in Japanese) to show foreigners that you need to speak Japanese. I am not sure, I should ask, but sometimes I wonder (we talk a little bit about this in our top 7 video if you are interested!)
@Human Being well, you are allowed to make rules for your own establishment (shop, restaurant etc.) I actually think it's OK and does not have anything to do with racism but rather with preserving ones own identity while living in an other country.
And actually, I have never met a Japanese person in my country who tried to communicate with me in Japanese. Even when they come for holidays they usually know a few sentences and use Google translate and the like for everything else. That does not always work out very well either but at least it shows an effort and they do so naturally.
Just ask yourself why English is the language everyone is supposed to know and how difficult it is to learn for Asians. Imagine Chinese would be the world language and ask yourself how you would feel when everyone talked to you in Chinese even though 5 years at school were just about enough to learn the grammar and develop a shitty pronunciation. Then throw all the different dialects in the mix (and yes, english dialects have to be learned to be understood as well).
I think it is a simple matter of respect and politeness to learn at least some of a countries language before visiting.
@Human Being I get your point! For me there are three different cases here: Language when visiting foreign countries, racisim in ones own country and experienced racism in other countries. I can only speak from my experience with mainly Japanese, Vietnamnese and Chinese people and those were all very conciderate when it came to the language thing [I'm from a non-english speaking western country where most people can't hold a conversation in English. So trying to speak the language is essential when you want to visit and experience a little bit more then scripted tourism]. If they ever felt descriminated they didn't say so, so I wouldn't know.
I am by no means trying to sugarcoat Japan [as a country] when it comes to racism [against foreigners and everyone who looks different]. But I had a lot of talks about this topic with Japanese friends. A lot of them did not even know what 'racism' was so it seems to me that there is not only a lack of awareness to the problem amongst young people but a maintenance of the problem through tradition. Now, all the people I talk to are young [as I am] and interested in cultural exchange [otherwise they would not bother to write/talk to me] so naturally, my demographic is small and biased - I am hardly speaking for all asian people and I am aware that the general concencus is different, but all the people I know, once they are aware of the problem, have their own thoughts about it which usually tend towards progression and change.
For the restaurant example; that one just doesn't fit into any category for me. My personal opinion is that it's not ever good to open an establishment that only welcomes one specific type of person. But I don't think I'm in a position to judge as someone who lives in the country they were born into. And I just don't see this case as racism either. In Indian Koreans are the 'foreigners' no matter how long they've lived there. And as a minority they probably face bigger problems concerning racism. So if they want to open a restaurant for Koreans only, in which they can meet, talk the language etc., that should be respected.
[It's not like they are actually racist against Indians, otherwise they probably would not live in India. And it's not like Indians didn't have any other restraurants they could visit, either]
@Human Being No. I would TOTALLY see it as racism when Koreans IN KOREA deny entry to Indian people [for example]. But there is a destinction to make between racism and exclusion. I said that I can only respond to the example you gave and I would say the same thing regardless of what country we are talking about. We actually have a lot of establishments in my country in which I cannot enter [because they are exclusive to miorities in my country, because they only allow people of the same religion or country in or because they are gendered]. And I don't feel descriminated by that. I rather think it's sad that they [have to - which is debatable] excist.
And discrimination is never just a possibility if you LIVE in a foreign country. The Indian government let them in to build their factories there, now workers come who don't speak the language and maybe don't want to be involved in the culture [which is sad and makes them look like jerks but it's their reality nonetheless]. To be honest, I think your standpoint here which goes directly against two nations is rather racist as well.
[And I never even spoke of Koreans, only in regard with your example. So where did I paint the notion that SK and Japanese people are innocent no matter the situation?].
@@passio-735 I find it incredibly hard to believe that a country with such a supposedly good education system would not touch on racism in a history class. The idea that most didn't know what it racism is incredulous sounding.
Because even though it gets swept under the rug in most conversations, let's be real -- it may not be to the same extent today as it was before, but even many white ethnicities faced extreme hate and prejudice. Ask the IRA how much they felt loved.
If I am forced to believe that an entire country's education system is a joke and never mentions Hitler, American Slavery, hate for Celtic people, Japan's issues with Korea, or that "Japanese" government is barely supporting the Ainu people and still ignoring Ryukyuan, and so forth -- vs you are bullshitting, I'll go with the latter.
I can definitely see where the bartender is coming from in this video, if you go to another country you need to be open and respectful abd I've definitely seen my fair share of rude and obnoxious travellers when I've travelled.
But I do think places need to be clearer about service/extra charges at bars because if I had a random extra charge on my bill that hadn't been mentioned at all when I came in I might feel like I was being scammed. I've had similar experiences and it does leave a sour taste in my mouth afterwards if I can't understand why I've been charged and would put me off going to a place again.
I do think scamming happens a lot (more?) in other parts of the world and that can be why foreigners are apprehensive...whereas it happens less (?) in Japan so people don't immediately see the need on being upfront...so yea, I agree with you. Japan might need to put more information out upfront.
Yeah... I've been in a situation where I had to pay way more than the service was supposed to cost because of extra charges that were hidden. It was in a European country operating through Euros and as a person for whom 1 Euro is like 5 Euros translated to my currency... it hurt a lot, knowing how much I paid for one meal. For me it was like 200€...
@@TokyoBTM
Growing up in Japan, scams are definitely a big issue here. Not following people that ''give you advice'' or young guys and woman that tell you ''we'll make it cheaper for you'' (although this trick is often only used with young people) is the only thing you can do, if you follow them well, that money is gone cuz police won't help. However with bars like these, while they aren't scamming they often don't tell you or show you the extra charges. It's usually written on the menu but often even Japanese people won't notice it, so while it's technically not a ''scam'' it's definitely ''scammy''.
...if people are getting charged an “entrance fee” when they leave ... that sounds more like an exit fee. I could definitely see how that would catch people off guard. Usually in the US an entrance fee is genuinely that ... you pay to enter as you enter.
Yea it is a bit of an exit fee, but I think the comparison was used because the concept of that charge is closest to the concept of the US entrance fee, so perhaps easier to understand (because I am sure some people think entrance charges are normal in the States, where other people don't)
he said it's "like" an entrance fee. usually they charge you something like 500+ yen for a bowl of chips or pretzels. thus why they call it a "snack fee" very common in many drinking establishments. you don't have a choice on whether you pay for it or not. Some people get surprised by it since they think the snack is complimentary, and then they get surprised by it when they see the bill at the end. you can see lots of foreigners get super confused and butt hurt on tripadvisor reviews.
It's sometimes also called "table charge" and the "snack" you get is more of a gesture. The charge simply covers for the service you get. Since you don't tip in Japan I think people shouldn't complain about the tiny charge... as mentioned it is usually just 500~800Yen.
Sounds like a shakedown to ask for money as you leave if it’s not a bill for food or drink. That’ could be interpreted as extortion and the place labeled a “clip joint”.Th. price should be communicated at the beginning or money paid actually at entrance.The west had consumer protection laws.
@@christopherleonard247 same logic can be applied to tipping in America.
He talks about people need to understand themselves, but in a situation u r not allowed to enter a place because u r foreigner, is not about understanding, it is about prejudice. And it is not like japanese dont get crazy when they drink!
Hopefully this video will help start a discussion where we can get closer to everyone being happy and welcome!
I agree. If someone rejected you in America for being a foreigner or a different race it would NOT be ok. It's actually illegal to do that here. That's why we had sit ins to end segregation over 50 years ago.
@@garrettklein7720 true!
@@TokyoBTM i think is cool what u did going to talk to someone about it, but it is more like u r trying to make us understand why we have to accept this and making them fell that their decision is correct, and not the opposite. They will try to justified, but it is xenophobia no matter how u see. When a japanese person gets drunk, they normalized. When a foreigner do that, they block them. He says he wants people to understand themselves, but he is not interested to hear, just the foreigners to accept his xenophobia
@@oimarcelolevi it's sorta crazy to me. Like if a Japanese person came on vacation to America they can go anywhere. If anyone tried to keep them out that would be considered completely and totally racist. I guess we are lucky to live in a society that is very multicultural and multiracial. I mean I couldn't imagine a business turning someone away for their race or culture. Same with sexuality. No business in their right mind would turn away gay people. It could destroy their business. People would boycott them.
It's a tricky topic that doesn't have right answers. In Spain, we are used to tourists whether European, Asian, or elsewhere misbehaving because alcohol is so cheap and the economy relies on tourists. Everyone agrees that basic manners and understanding the culture is important, but when Japanese tourists come here, we don't demand they speak Spanish or come with a Spaniard to enter our spaces (especially in the gay district). We would do our best to communicate in English, or use a translator because otherwise we'd be naturally called xenophobic. Japanese and other Asian tourists rightfully complain when racist bouncers don't let them into clubs without VIP passes for being Asian, but when they do it to foreigners, especially people of color for being stereotyped as troublemakers, it becomes a problematic cycle. I imagine that local people from Kyoto for example, must have the same frustrations as ours in Barcelona, but we recognize that no one can have their cake and eat it too. And as long as it is in the Japanese interest to welcome tourists in a globalizing world, eventually they'll have to suck it up, step their pussies up, and accept our differences as people.
Yea, for sure. I have thankfully seen Japan grow and evolve in the last 10 years, so here's to hoping they continue to!
The gay establishments never had to rely on tourism. And that is why they can blatantly reject foreigners.
That's very true. I have thought about this from other stores as well...like regular Japanese restaurants for instance. They have a good amount of clientele as is to support their establishments, so perhaps they're not thinking about other people (intentionally or not). I'm not sure. Interesting discussion though!
Alex G. Japan doesn’t need tourists.
@@iparipaitegianiparipaitegi4643 they do however need to stop working their pre-retirement citizens to death if they want them to get kids so they won't have to rely on foreign workers in the future.
This reminds me of when I lived in Seoul. There are generally two areas where there are clusters of gay restaurants and bars. One area has a lot of gay clubs and bars that foreigners also go to while the other has restaurants and bars mostly locals go to. I am fluent in Korean but even so, if I went to bars in the local area people would sometimes say there was so more space in a restaurant and bartenders would keep suggesting I go to the foreign area since I am a foreigner. It kind of blew my mind how unaccepting the gays in the local area were, yet at that moment they were asking society to be accepting of them.
Yeah I've heard stories like that too! Hopefully this will change!
All I know is that if Bars here (Germany) would exclude all foreigners it would be global headlines calling those owners or even the whole country racist. It's a touchy subject after all these foreigners are still paying customers, if they don't know the rules print them out in English and put them on each table. So many people here in Germany visit and don't speak German either, hell so many people live here and don't even speak German. We can't force them to and we definetly can't discriminate them because of that, some of them speak 4 languages the country's language they live in might not be yet one of them.
Yeah I guess it's more reasonable to assume that someone knows a little bit of English than other languages because it's the language used in most international media. If a Japanese person walked into a German bar, I wouldn't expect them to know how to say "I can't speak German" in German. But I wouldn't be surprised if they said it in English
Yeah, I think that would happen in Canada too. Having said that, I think customers would get a similar response if they asked the bar to reduce charges or argue with the bill (that is 100% legit from a local perspective - not talking about actual crime). So I think that is where the conversation gets really complicated. But this is why I thought the conversation was interesting. Food for thought! Allows us to have this conversation right here.
@@TokyoBTM I agree, people asking for discounts are quite rude😑. Communication and mutual respect are very important
Well, in Mallorca there are some places run by Germans where they reject the locals 😂
You need to speak German to get in. WTF 🙈
@@TokyoBTM yes, I agree you wouldn’t ask for a discount on the bill unless something wasn’t provided or the food was so bad but even then it is the manager who would make that offer. I think what he is talking about is when they get this fee added that they had no idea was coming is the issue. I would not agree to it if I hadn’t been told this is our table service fee or club fee upfront. If you go to some empty bar that is small and not nice and just get a drink to be polite or your thirsty and then they hit you with a $100 fee no way. I feel like a was being robbed and taken advantage of. I have been to many countries and the club tells you there is a minimum fee for a table. They also tell you that you are required to spend so much on drinks or food. If you feel your bar is worth a $100 fee then why hide it and sneak this in on the bill. Thank god I watched this because we want to go to Toyko but I would have been really angry if this sneaky charge came at the end. I can more than afford it that's, not the issue it is the feeling of being taken advantage of.
Hi Tokyo Tops!
This video is about a "snack bar". For those who do not know, a snack bar is a small, intimate bar, commonly found in Japan that can seat around 10 people.
These bars have what is called a "system", which is a set price that customers need to pay when coming to bar. This price includes the first drink and free snacks that the customer can eat.
The main purpose of these bars are to have lively chats with the "mama-san" (bartender) and develop a sense of community with the other customers around you as it is more of an intimate setting when compared with bigger bars.
The "system" concept confuses foreigners at times when they visit Japan, so we ask Ko-san at the end a little more about it! Thanks for watching!
Why are you two so damn cute!???
Kinda reminds me when people used to tell me *happening bars dont allow foreigners* Some do but some don't. I've been lucky enough to be allowed to go into 2 happening bars in tokyo. If you've never been to one, it's an interesting experience. :D
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even if i get the points from the japanese point of view, i find problematic that a country can allow to deny a service to foreigners because foreigners. that feels very uncomfortable to me.
Yea it can be a shi&ty feeling to be rejected because of that!
I wonder how they feel about immigrants
@@johnross5098 i think its the same either way, if you look and sound not japanese they'll probably assume. Its funny how the states are so effed up but you would never see that there in most places these days...
it happens a lot in the US too, primarily in cases of homophobia and racism. luckily the hater in chief is out.
@@megansalt yes true asf, arent there almost 7 or 8 states with new laws supporting it? It's so sad. Canada has our own problems but it's extremely illegal here, I think having these things supported by legislation is a huge issue
I understand that some foreigners have caused trouble in Japan, and that's regrettable, but the way all foreigner get stereotyped is even worse. I've been living in Japan a while now and it's rare that I encounter foreigners behaving badly. Now ask me how many times I've had to dodge some random 日本人's vomit on the street. Or the drunk salaryman arguing with train station employees and then passing out on the train taking up a whole section.
I agree...it is unfortunate that some bad apples can create such a negative stereotype for others who are following the rules!
@@TokyoBTM that’s some fancy bullshit you just said there. Its not “a minority ruining it for the majority.” Its racism. Every population has problem members. Foreigners get blamed for everything, when it’s more likely it was a Japanese person doing it.
@@jendubay3782 Exactly. It's really just being super prejudiced. It's more accurate to call it xenophobia than racism though. Since a lot of people in Japan less so have a problem with other races, and more so outsiders. Still fucked up though.
日本に住んでるんだ！英語苦手だから日本語で失礼します
まあ言いたい事は分かる!けど日本はその酒文化からか酔っぱらいにはしょうがない～で対応するとこありますね
ちょっとお酒にはルールが甘くなるんですよね
もちろん人や場所や状況によって限度はあるけど｡
まあただこの動画内容で話し合う大切な部分はお店で失礼をしたかどうか
当たりまえだけど日本人でも度を越しちゃって迷惑かけた場合は出禁(出入り禁止)になったりするよ､因みに自分もお酒の場で一回ある🤦♂️
でもそれで日本人みんな出禁にする分けにはいかないね
難しいのは外国から来た人の誰かがどこかで迷惑をかけちゃった場合外国の人って枠(チーム)で印象が悪くなってしまう事があること
こういう印象の問題は世界共通だろう
でも日本で頑張って文化を尊重してくれている外国の人には同情します
こういう問題が少しでも改善方向に動くにはやっぱり誰かがそのコミュニティと話しあっていくのが大事でしょうね～🤔
Tokyo BTMで二丁目にbarを開いたら面白くなるかも(笑)まあお二人忙しいだろうけど
This bar owner keeps it real and tells it like it is. The fact he is open about escorting and just has the resourceful pizaz to run a bar equals Would live for a TV show or anime about him!
It would be the best show. I would tune in!
I can understand the anxiety around foreigners, and I really like Ko's open-mindedness, v. encouraging, but I still think that xenophobia, especially towards people of colour, is a thing the Japanese government should really work on. Especially with their stance on covid - bit embarrassing how the government claimed elitism, and are now in a state of emergency, yet still have the audacity to blame foreigners for everything despite keeping their borders regulated since last year. I'm glad there was domestic public backlash towards that stupid rule about 'ooh don't eat with foreigners' - nice to remember their are lovely people out there.
Still can't help but be concerned, hopefully will be studying abroad in kobe on a uni program (I'm doing a Japanese degree ahah) if things calm down by october, but as a South Asian I'm not feeling too great about it, even though I really want to look forward too it ahaha :(
it's so weird how Caucasian people get almost positive discrimination, while anyone else, even other East Asians are treated negatively (perhaps even more so than other foreigners even), at least systematically.
There are a lot of things that can be improved upon, but as you said, at least there are lovely people out there who help fight back.
I hope you have a nice time when you are here for your uni program!
@@TokyoBTM thank you!! Every country has its own set of problems aha, I’m sure the same can be said about the UK
I missed seeing the sun in the UK hahaaha
@@TokyoBTM yea the weather’s pretty awful for most of year except of summer 😭😭 also public transport outside of London is 💀💀💀
Honestly I know little about Japan, but I used to be upset at how the Paul brothers ruined the reputation of foreigners, the suicide forest thing wasn't the only disrespectful thing they did in Japan.
I remember visiting one of these small gay bars in ni-chome with Japanese friends and the "mama-san" wanted to make sure I spoke good Japanese before he let me in. In the course of the evening, he went on to describe the year he spent in the US with great fondness. I'm pretty certain he didn't visit any gay bars in America that would only let him in after making sure his English was satisfactory. These places are exclusionary, discriminatory, and often downright racist. They are also pretty dull, on the whole, and should be avoided. Spend your money in more welcoming establishments.
I was reading your story thinking that he wanted to check your Japanese because he didn't speak English. It was interesting to then read that he spent time abroad so probably spoke English but still wanted to check your Japanese...were the other patrons only speaking Japanese?
@@TokyoBTM Yes, I was the only English-speaker (apart from the mama-san!), and the bar consisted of just a counter, so presumably he wanted to create an atmosphere where everyone could chat with each other in Japanese. His bar, his rules, I suppose, but even so it's appallingly discriminatory. What would he have done with a non-Japanese speaker with East Asian features? Kick them out after letting them in because he didn't initially realise they weren't Japanese? This was about 15 years ago, so maybe things are changing, but there are plenty of bars that are much more fun and welcoming than those dull counter places where you're forced to chat to the mama-san, and I would always choose the former over the latter.
@Phil P, very interesting. We have gotten some other comments about similar things. I feel (hope?) things have gotten at least a bit better in recent years!
@@honyakupjp Asians can distinguish each other by facial features mixed ancestries aside. Even fashion sense & hair styling can be a giveaway - but the internet & instagram fashion has made this less reliable.
@@j134679 no we don't really know unless it is so apparent.
Also "snack bars" in USA you usually pay the entrance fee before you get in. I think it is a lot about setting expectations that if people pay up front they understand but when they have to pay at the end they have to complain. I think if its charged up front its much easier :)
Yeah I agree, should be up front!
Agree on that you should respect the tradition of the place you visit. It's really tiring if every foreigner think "in my country...." than forcing the local to change.
Also agree on the entrance fee. If you think too expensive, just don't go inside.
Yes! Everyone just needs to make sure that the prices are clear up front when you enter.
Tradition ≠ xenophobia
Japan is a mystery box.
I love how your channel is deconstructing that classic image of Japan that doesn't talk about sex or has underground cultures.
Thank you so much! Yes this is one of the points of our channel and I am glad that is coming across!
I love his energy so much he is blunt with it I could listen to him talk for hours. He is very correct foreigners should have manners, no matter where they go especially Japanese a place where manner is key.
Everyone should have manners, yes! Agreed!
Still racist profiling. I’d love to see mixed Japanese opinion who are profiled on appearance.
@@Debbiefromcompliance it's not hard to ask 'konbanwa. watashi wa nihongo ga dekimasen. Iidesuka?' Funny demanding japanese to be cosmopolitan when one refuses to learn even a little bit of japanese to show a little respect. Plus, i understand most of those bars are relying on returning patronage because that is the most sustainable income for their small business. They can't _afford_ to lose loyal customers to passing travelers.
I was so curious about the whole gay Japanese escorting business since I've seen ads for boys in 2-Chome and I'm glad he gave us some insight into it. Hope you guys will get a chance to interview more gay men in the sex industry (particularly gay porn and gay for pay actors) because it's interesting to hear how it all works, like what type of customers they get, what type of boys do customers generally like, etc etc.
Thank you for letting us know!
It is a no brainier, to as a respectful custom to at least have a basic phrases guide knowledge for whatever foreign country one is visiting. They will indeed appreciate one trying to do so. Simple respect. Love that watching anime since forever, have gathered a longer japanese word vocabulary. On a recent visit to Romania, not knowing the language, did the basics with them. Rewarding experience. Thanks for the video! Another establishment to add to the visit list! And I see that they carry Passoa Passion Fruit Rum! My favorite! ❤️ along with Bacardi of course ☺️
I love rum. Spiced rum is my fav! Glad to hear your visit to Romania was rewarding after learning some basics! I'm sure anime has given you some Japanese vocabulary too!
I totally agree that some foreigners who travel to Japan (or other countries) can be rude or insensitive towards locals however, I guess the one problem I have is the generalisation of all foreigners as being problematic. Definitely foreigners can be little shits (I recently felt embarrassed at a restaurant when a foreign couple disrespectfully wore the traditional clothes that the restaurant was offering) however, similarly the Japanese aren't all saints here or around the world. I think if rules were clearly mentioned in establishments patrons would follow them. Unfortunately I can't ignore the need to avoid confrontation, thus opting to use blanket rules. Honestly generalising all foreigners comes across as racist or exclusionary.
👏👏👏 I think that's why it's so important to allow the conversation, hearing each others to better understand ❤❤
@@TokyoBTM I agree 100000000% conversations are important especially because Japan will undoubtedly continue to have more and more foreigners. Thank you for being a part of the conversation. Your videos are an awesome resource!
Agree with your statement, but just a question, why was it disrespectful to wear the traditional clothes the restaurant was offering?
@@Dibs1978 so what the couple did was after wearing the Indian traditional clothes, after getting drink the guy poured alcohol on the girls chest so that it fabric was see through, they started dancing wildly and the guys pants ripped. It was a terrible display.
@@joshazriel8007 ahhh, so not the fact that they wore traditional clothes, but what they did and how they acted while wearing. Thanks for clarifying, that makes perfect sense.
I learn so much about Japanese culture from your channel, you guys are amazing💕
Thank you! Glad to hear it is entertaining and informative!
Highlight of my week.
Thanks for tuning in !
Loved hearing his perspective. So honest and forthcoming. Plus super cute and kind too!
We were humbled that he was so open and honest with us
I guess the problem with the entrance fee is that sometimes there is nowhere mentioning it, and then suddenly it is in the bill. Then the customer might think they are being scammed. And I think it is rare to have entrance fees in bars, they are more common in nightclubs. Like you guys said, just stick a warning at the door and problem solved! I was also shocked by the 100 spending XD I don't think I've ever spent that in a bar/club/restaurant in my life lol
Haha, us too! We are not rich enough to spend 100 at a bar!
I think you misunderstood the 100USD maybe? What he meant: "Come with the attitude of spending 100USD at a bar per night and you'll be fine", not that you have to but that's what he'd consider a healthy budget at a bar. From personal experience I can say it's a healthy budget, since at most I drink/snack for around 8,000JPY and the rest will get me home safely.
Yes always have extra for that taxi ride home or an overnight stay somewhere haha
Hahahah 100$ gets you about 2 maybe 3 cocktails in Iceland. Drinking in Japan was fun and cheap so I ended up trying a bunch of higher grade alcohol than I would generally spend money on in Iceland.
@@Mokomis_ wow really? I've heard Iceland is expensive.. but that's ridiculous!
It would be nice to drop into a gay bar while visiting Japan for the first time, it would not be the #1 reason for the visit, however, the mere fact that such prejudice exists toward gay foreigners within the Japanese gay community, makes me question why I would bother to visit Japan in the first place, esp. given the many other Asian countries to choose from. Hard pass. Thanks for that.
Thanks for the comment Robert! I think what he was trying to emphasize was the mindset to have when going to a bar. He doesn't expect people to be perfect...but to try something - anything - even a hello in Japanese, or to come in with the mindset that bar charges here may be different from other parts of the world.
I do think there are a number of bars that will approach bar culture more similar to that in other countries (probably Western) and with over 400 bars in the gay district in Shinjuku, you'll have lots to choose from.
We are planning to cover more bars in the future so that people can watch are videos and see which ones might be suitable for them to visit when they are here. Thanks for tuning in! Hope to see you again!
Gay or straight, travelling requires to be mindful of the hosting culture, especially when the latter deals with social behaviours in a rather differently manner than yours. Showing no regards towards the matter can come off as extremely rude and I really don't blame them.
@UCeFEXB-EJJGw87Oyto4xV-Q but what's rude and intolerant also depends on someone's culture. It's not easy but you should avoid applying your cultural lens when faced with foreign customs.
Robert, that's a generalization. I'm a foreigner and have never gotten rejected from a gay bar in Tokyo. Just be polite and learn some Japanese beforehand and you'll be fine.
How much Japanese would be expected of foreigners to learn in these circumstances? Because to me it sounds a bit unrealistic to expect foreigners to learn a lot before going on vacation? Maybe a few super basic things like how to say thank you?
But then again I live in Denmark where everyone will talk English to foreigners, even if they try speaking Danish 😂.
Are Japanese uncomfortable taking foreigners by the hand/ explaining their culture and habits?
From my personal experience, I feel if you learned "thank you", "hello", "sorry" and "I don't speak Japanese", you would impress so many Japanese people and everyone would love you as a tourist. The point Ko-san was talking about was not so much about not being able to speak Japanese, but the lack of even trying. Like in Denmark when foreigners would try to speak Danish, they may fail and then you speak English to them, right? Same in Japan, but I'm sure it feels nice to Danish people to see foreigners at least attempt.
I think the video should have underlined more what a "snack bar" is. These bars can be extremely tiny - like maybe 10~20people, sometimes less sometimes more. So they really care about what customers come in, as one person can stink up the entire mood of the place. Some places target a very specialized customer group. I have heard of a bar specializing in "gay volleyball players" and you can/should only enter if you are a gay volleyball player. Most Japanese also research the exact "specialization" of each gay bar, so they know they will feel at home there. So, I think foreign tourists need to be aware that not every bar is for them. For some bars you really need to become a regular to really enjoy what its offering anyway.
So to answer your question: I would say, that if you don't speak Japanese - go to a bar that has English-speaking staff, is known to be foreigner friendly or a club where there is a mixed crowed of people. I don't think foreign tourists need to enter a random snack-bar to either get rejected or have a terrible experience because everyone ignores them because they don't know how to engage with you.
Yeah, I maybe we should do an introduction to snack bars! Seems like this question didn't come up in our other bar videos before but did here, so good opportunity to swing back and introduce the concept next time.
I went to a lovely bar in Osaka with the most basic of Japanese knowledge, but the staff were wonderful and really welcomed me and we got by with phone translations. I think because I tried my best to be polite and engaged with other patrons, they were so lovely, and I ended up talking to the owner and he gave me his business card. I definitely want to go back in the future!
Mate i tried so hard to speak Danish, I don’t even think I did THAT bad because since I’m northern there are a few more similarities in pronunciation of some things, but everyone automatically I responded in English. I never stood a chance
I'm as straight as a column but this was interesting to watch.
"straight as a column"! Never heard this before! Love it 😆
He made a good point about SM. I always say I struggle to understand SM, yet my husband told me a while back he was shocked I did not understand, as I like to be told what to do when in bed. You see I thought SM was just about whips, embarrassment, and pain. (The parts I never understood) While that may be true for many, for some it is just about the domination or relinquishing control, or feeling needed.
PS. I still do not identify as being into SM, but have now learnt to shut up and stop judging
I would like to learn more as well! I realized I didn't know much either when listening to Ko-san.
Because the term is BDSM- bondage *domination* and sadomasochism. You’re into domination, but not the bondage or sadomasochism. Pretty easy to understand.
@@jendubay3782 many things in life are easy to understand IF one wants to try and understand. Just because the explanation is in the acronym does not mean the average person would jump to a point of understanding.
@@Dibs1978 no, no I meant after it’s explained
It’s all about trust and relationship.
We jokingly describe as
S- Service
M-Manzoku (satisfaction)
In the relationship M, submissive take a lead and set a limit and Dominant serve🤣
Hands down, that was the best explanation I've heard and one that makes sense.
We were so thankful to Ko-san for being so open with us!
Hearing him talk about his experience and how the escort industry is set up was so upsetting. He even said that if working at a bar paid the same as being an escort no one would do it. I think that says a lot.. These types of industries take advantage of peoples desperation and fuels the idea that people can be bought. Don't like it one bit!
He seems happy with what he's doing now at least and that's really good to see! Hopefully this video will help to spread awareness surrounding this subject. 🙏🏻✨
enjoyed how straight to the point this guy is.
He cut a lot of the BS for sure!
Although I do live in Japan, I'm not SGL (Same Gender-Loving), however, for whatever reason, the great Algorithm saw fit to recommend this video.
And you know what? I'm not mad.
Learned something new.
Thanks for a different perspective.
I'm glad! Thank you for taking out the time to watch our video!
I found the service charge very strange when I visited Japan from the UK where you never pay to visit a bar . I am so used to popping into a bar for one drink . I realise Japanese bars are frequently very small and intimate and need to cover costs .
There are some bars that just require you to buy a drink when going in but yeah, those are more catering to foreigners and foreign standards. Others have the service charge (the majority).
and many of them offer live music or a special atmosphere. I was happy to pay the entrance fees, there's nothing like a tiny Japanese jazz bar!
when in Tokyo I was surprised to pay a service charge, because I’ve never had to pay to be in such small bars, it’s absolutely normal to pay to get into big clubs internationally! BUT we were always very respectful and are never afraid to spend! It’s super challenging to navigate Nichome without a local tho, you’d be popping into a million little bars that are already full for hours if you didn’t know better!
You had a bit of a challenge navigating Nichome but it didnt stop you from having a good time it seems! Happy to hear!
I was refused service at a restaurant in Asakusa and given the excuse "Japanese only" which felt kind off bad, especially as I was sober and just wanted to eat. In Western Europe, at least, having a sign with no foreigners allowed might result in a bar closure by authorities for xenophobia or at least getting "boycotted" by the locals in case you reach the news.
Yeah, it is so disheartening when you haven't done anything wrong and get rejected for no reason
I am straight and I don't know why I watch this video until the end. The bar owner is really cute and charming. I can't keep my eyes off him while he is talking. The topics in this clips are so interesting. Thank you for the open information.
Glad you enjoyed it! Hope you'll join us again!
The basic rules of over projecting the costs, to avoid unforseen expenses applies in other words.
The bartender was super cute! I’m glad you made a video about this. I will be visiting Tokyo in March and am worried about going to a bar that doesn’t welcome foreigners. I’m doing my best to learn basic Japanese, but hopefully I won’t have to experience this
I think you'll be fine if you try to be kind and are humble!
you should be fine if you're polite, kind, clean, and can speak basic Japanese. bring a Japanese friend if you have one
Although he said that foreigners are drunks and troublemakers, I think he is being polite in his
justification only. Many places do not accept the entry of foreigners and make this very rudely clear at the entrance of the establishment. I didn't have to be drunk to get this bad impression of some places I went. many bars do not allow entry just because you are foreigners. Not only in Tokyo but in Osaka and Nagoya too, it's sad because I like Japan a lot, but I've never been in this
kind of situation in Europe or Latin America.
I hope more bars will come around and see that foreigners are not bad!
I think he makes a great point about snack bars being a community and for deeper convos. So if we cannot engage in this culture because we cannot communicate in a basic manner then it’s kind of wasting our time/experience and also frustrating for the owner as they won’t be able to host properly or may not have enough seats.
I think this summarizes one part of their issue up perfectly!
You should see anglos coming up in drag bar in Montréal expecting everyone to speak to them in english .. what a pain in the ass, it kind of justifies why Japan is so racist in the first place as well
@@qcpresto Japan is a homogeneous country and no, racism is unjustified no matter what. If you have a bar/store in a tourist zone is expected that you can understand basic of English or have any kind of firm to help with it, since will be easier to communicate with your consumers
Your guys' videos paint a picture of Japan that I was totally unaware of. It totally makes me want to visit. At the same time, it is a bit odd that they expect tourists to speak a language that only exists in that one country and would only be useful for their vacation. I've visited places where I did and didn't speak the language and I've never seen a place that said "Only 'speakers of the local language' allowed here." It sounds like they have totally rationalized it and I guess it could be a little difficult to adapt to foreigners but that's just how it is. My Chinese partner will haggle for literally any purchase he thinks he can get away with here in the US but if it's not possible they aren't like "Oh my god! That was so disturbing! Let's ban all Chinese people to prevent that from happening again." So I completely want to visit and enjoy the interesting things you guys present but it wouldn't kill them to understand that Japanese is literally the hardest language for most European-language speakers to learn. There are not many cognates and there are THREE ways to write it!
Thanks for the comment! Yeah, I can totally see where you're coming from. There are lots of bars that welcome English speakers (and others), so I'm sure you'll have a great time when you are here!
100% agree. As a foreigner who may one day decide to go there for a holiday/vacation for a few weeks at the very most, trying to learn Japanese would be unrealistic.
I speak French, German, Italian and Spanish, I have learnt a bit of Japanese, but who needs Japanese outside of Japan. You can't expect English people to learn every language when they visit a country. Most people learn English as it's truly universal
Talking about sm being less common in north america made me, as a masochistic, bottom, sub, laugh really hard. Idk if we are more rare, but there are conferences and groups that meet monthly, etc.
This was very educational. I'll never be able to go to Japan, but I like learning, thanks for being so open about your answers.
Glad you enjoyed! We actually went to a BDSM recently, so please have a look at that video and let us know what you think!
The 腹が立つ part in the preview made me feel so worried omg
But yeah, being open to different sets of values, manners and those extra service fees is really important. I think that communication is key and it has to be an effort from both sides. Not everyone will learn Japanese to visit Japan as a tourist past some really basic sentences, but also tourists shouldn’t expect that everyone will speak perfect English there. I still don’t really know what a balanced middle point would be but it’s something that worth being discussed and addressed more deeply.
Thank you for the deep content! We agree - it is both sides working together. I think that it is hard to define what that middle ground is, as you say, but I think if your heart/intention is in the right place, it'll work out.
I also feel like many older or more conservative tourists expect Japan to have a similar amount of “tourism-service” as other parts of East Asia, like Thailand or Vietnam. Asia is sadly still looked at with an unhealthy amount of racist stereotypes.
Admittedly the reverse also happens…
Just subbed to your channel, and loving the content!
If the things he said about foreigners had been spoken in English they'd be at least controversial.
Context matters, I guess.
Another amazingly and refreshingly frank insight into Japan.
You guys are incredible in how you not only source these fascinating elements of Japan, but more so how you moderate them. An excellent video.
Thanks so much.
Thanks for the kind comment! We will keep hustling!
To summarize, tt clearly does not make me want to visit any of these gay bars in Japan. They seem pretty rude. Do those owners adapt as much to local traditions and manners when they visit Europe or North America? I have never heard a Japanese tourist speak Dutch in Antwerp or German in Hamburg or Italian in Milan or French in Paris. They speak Japanese or some English and that's it!
I know a lot of Japanese people who choose not to travel because they cannot speak the local language and/or English, so I do think it weighs on a lot of people's mind here.
I can fully understand how this video may be off putting but I assure you that there are so many great experiences to be had here so encourage you to try out a snack bar sometime! The point of including his talk was not so much to put people off, but to have a frank discussion about it, because often people are rejected without any explanation (right or wrong) and Japanese people tend to politely refrain from talking about it, which can result in the same problem happening over and over again as there is no dialogue happening.
@@TokyoBTM I have Tokyo friends who don't travel abroad for the same reason. Men especially are so horrified of speaking English!
This mama is really insightful, it's so nice to listen to
Glad you enjoyed!
I really enjoyed hearing his opinions, and experiences. Another great video!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for tuning in!
It’s expensive. When I was a kid (20 years ago), I dated a girl who worked at a really nice bar. She told me to bring 100USD to pay; however, when I left, the guy at the register told me my bill was 200USD. My girl friend ended up having to pay the rest. Japanese hostess bars are expensive. Especially the really nice ones.
Hostess bars in particular yea!
yyyeessss! instanlty watched when it popped it - thanks guys!
Thank you! We hope that you enjoyed the video ❤
I really enjoyed this interview. It was very informative. I also like how up front and honest everyone is about how some foreigners act when going to other countries and not showing the proper respect for the place you are visiting.
We enjoyed how honest he was!
Thanks for the insightful interview. The owner is straightforward and open, very refreshing. Although I have never been to Japan I have heard of foreigners being turned away from gay bars since the 1990s. Then the 'reason' that was that foreigners brought AIDS. Now the 'reason' is language or behaviour. If not speaking the local language should be a reason then here in the Netherlands we should ban 99% of the world population but we accept that English is the common tongue. How would Japanese feel if we would refuse them at bars or clubs if they don't speak Dutch? I think there are other reasons then the ones mentioned here. I would encourage you to investigate further on this topic since this discrimination is putting me off to visit Japan.
Please watch our other bar videos! We have a playlist and it shows the variety of places that are available to visit here. I am sure you will find one that you'd love - please come visit Japan, you won't regret it!
As a bartender of 16 years in a popular resort location I can honestly say that greed is this man's idol.
I don't know why people need to be rude we just need to have respect
Respect is the word here!
Just found this channel. I'm sure I am parroting everyone by saying this was refreshingly honest. I've already shared this channel with friends. Thanks for the content.
Thanks for sharing!! This video has started a lot of discussion, so I hope it can continue to be shared!
previously when i travelled to tokyo and wandered into nichome i also didnt feel welcomed to enter as a foreigner. not having any english menu/signboards is kinda intimidating to us to even enter.
I can see that. Please watch our top 7 video for some bars that are English friendly!
This was fun and enlightening. My experience years ago was that humility and politeness go a long way. The behavior of some westerners was appalling. When in Rome.
When in Rome indeed!
I travel a lot, and I always learn simple local greeting phrases, like "Thank you", "Sorry", "Hello", but it would be so hard to learn how to have a conversation in each country I visit in local language. I just don't understand why some Japanese people find it offensive when not talking Japanese. The bar owner spent two years in London and he said he still can't speak English properly, I am not trying to be mean but just to show that learning languages is not easy.
Also, I find it uncomfortable rejecting clients after they enter the bar, they can put a sign outside of the shop, but telling someone to leave in front of other customer is so uncomfortable.
I love you videos, please keep it up :)
I think the important thing for Ko-san was the intent. If you walked in and said hello in Japanese and then asked if you could speak English, I am sure he'd be fine. It is just the attempt that many people are missing (he finds).
It also doesn't help that English and Japanese are radically different language systems
@@richardmetcalfe920 True.
I am talking about the fact that some Japanese (or any other country) find it disrespectful to not be able to speak in the local language.
I haven’t noticed the hoards of Japanese tourists in California attempting to speak English. Seems somewhat hypocritical.@@xxxBlacKxxxPearLxxx
Thank you for this video. It clears up some realities. But at the same time it scared the hell out of me to visit Japan, something I always wanted to do, but both issues of the cost of life in Japan and how closed the Japanese can be to foreigners have brought out my worst fears which have held me back from visiting. In the post covid era I intend to go spend a few months in Asia, and I am still mulling over which countries to visit, but your video reminds me of why some other Asian countries (like Thailand) always win out over Japan for the kindness and warmth of its people, and cheaper costs, for foreign visitors. I wish you could make other videos to change my mind… As much as I enjoyed this video, and congratulate you for doing this interview, it has not helped me to decide to visit Japan in 2022 over other Asian countries, and that makes me sad.
Awwwww...just want to clarify, you will most likely find yourself very welcomed in Japan. The services here are great, and people are extremely polite and kind. Bars saying no are usually hidden and really hard to find, they are like "small communities". Bars that are accessible and on the main street are very welcoming and kind to everyone.
@@TokyoBTM denying entry will erase any other “welcome” that is done. It’s disgusting that you’re defending this.
This was super fun to know! Thanks Tokyo bottoms!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very well said about SM being about a relationship more than a fetish. You guys knocked it out of the park with this video. I feel by following the advice in your videos I will have an amazingly wonderful experience when I come to visit.
❤🧡💛💚💙💜🤎🖤🤍🖤🤎💜💙💚💛🧡❤
We learned a lot from this video too! Always an interesting time!
Interesting to watch this. Gay man here with a strong interest in Japan and Japanese culture (both contemporary and historic) and totally incapable of learning the language, it seems. I've tried numerous times over two decades. But the answer given here doesn't alienate me: I totally get it and respect it. It's actually just good to hear specific reasons given.
I'm sure you'd be fine! Hopefully you can come visit soon and try snack bars out!
❤️
❤️❤️
I"M SO HAPPY 😭😭 As a kinky person myself, I super appreciate the brief explanation of a dom/sub relationship, being in a relationship like this is all about trust, communication and power exchange, many people are only into non-sexual play too, more of a therapeutic purpose, where they can let go of worries and focus on the scenes
ofc fetishes, kinks exist, and dom/sub relationships are not necessarily 'giving an exception to this person' as mama-san said, but I'm so glad they pointed those points out cuz to most people, they don't associate trust or communication with kink (which is definitely seen very important in our community) and non-sexual plays don't even cross their minds
We actually just uploaded a new video that explores this topic more! Please check it out and let us know what you think!
This makes it easier to understand. My Japanese isn't all that but making an effort helps and opens doors to new experiences.
I think good intentions will definitely go a long way, in any country!
Also, in regard to the entrance fee. In the U.S. bars that have entrance fees don't let you in unless you pay that fee first.
Yea, I think that is why Meng said at the end that these charges should be at least shown/explained when people come in. Makes sense!
Oh this bartender is spicy...she’s coming for rude tourists. Respect ✊🏻. Lol
Spicy indeed!
So got that vibe as well watching this!!
The bartender is indeed refreshingly frank for the Japanese - he is giving the real answers. I lived in Kyoto 20 years ago, and there were not many gaijin living there and the ones that did could all pretty much converse in basic Japanese. Actually I found as a gaijin I was a bit of a celebrity for the bar and they always gave me a discount! They were happy I could chat and join in with other people in the bar. I have heard that foreigners have really increased in numbers, and I doubt that special treatment is still going to happen, even if they do speak the language.
And by the way I now live in France, and really it is no different here. You don't have to speak good French, but if you can say a few words it just takes you a long way. It is a real ice-breaker. It is difficult for Anglo-Saxons to get their head around that because they don't understand how stressful it is to speak in a foreign language, and when everybody expects you to speak perfect English it is much more so.
What is slightly unique in Japan is its cliquiness, and particularly its version of it. Certain bars want to cater to certain types of people to achieve a certain amount of congeniality. It is hard for many Japanese to make the step into gay culture given the regimentations and expectations on them. So they want to make it as easy for them as possible. Add to that that profit margins are very thin, they need to maintain a loyal customer base. Given the influx of tourists and the importance of that market, however, that may change.
TIL that snack bars are a thing. I had never heard of such a thing until this video. Thank you! Educational, all around! 😅
Glad you enjoyed!
Great video! It sounds like if make an effort to speak Japanese and are a humble, respectful, and low maintenance guest, you will have a fun time.
I think that is exactly it!
I was waiting for you to ask him to show you how he'd reject & eject two foreigners from his bar, but you guys just appeared too welcomed!
That would've been a great end to the video!
Nice video dude, It was an interesting watch and you asked good questions :)
Great video thank you! I liked the interview style. :)
I never really got excluded that much during my time in Japan. Some people would avoid me at first, but once I show them I can speak Japanese they would relax and welcome me like any other Japanese customers. I do understand sometimes it can be difficult to deal with people when there are language/culture barriers.
Sometimes people relax when I start speaking too, so makes sense!
How do they make $$$ if their service is so disrespectful?
Their service is immaculate to a tee. Just that foreigners are not welcomed.
Once you warm up to a mama-san they are so kind and welcoming!
They make $$$ from the Japanese clientele.
Yes, especially at snack bars because it becomes like a small family. Their customers will be faithful and come back and spend/support the business. There's a nice side to that I feel...I feel people know me more here than when I was in Canada. In Canada, even at bars I would regularly go to, I felt like I was always just another face.
@@TokyoBTM in Japan the ambience is intimate and it’s a place of comfort and familiar faces
Thanks for another awesome video hosting a rich discussion in the chats, too. ❤️
Our pleasure! Glad you enjoyed it ❤️
Was an exchange student in Osaka area and went to a drag bar with a show there I'd read about online. Was going to meet some people from another dorm there and they showed up way way to late, just in time for the second drag show of the evening. I just had fun, saw the drag show 2 times that night. But definitely witnessed a pair there that definitely didn't understand Queer/gay bar etiquette, also hogged the karaoke equipment kind of by singing a lot of songs in a row. Very drunk and American. Then when my friends finally showed up, a mix of nationalities, I definitely regretted bringing them a bit. Seems Icelandic bar culture is more like Japanese than I thought. That bar didn't have a service fee, but was surprised by one such charge at a bar by the train station in my neighbourhood, though I understood it cause it was a tiny bar with few seats and we got like a snack and such, but it was a surprise at the end but it wasn't very high so I didn't mind. Friends who I was with were more upset as while the drinks were cheap to me (from Iceland where alcohol is highly taxed) and I didn't mind the small fee for seat and snack. They were more upset about it.
Also the Japanese were very vary of me at first at the drag bar but when I took 残酷な天使のテーゼ in the Karaoke a few of them dared talk to me in Japanese.
残酷な天使のテーゼ is a great way to break the ice with people! I once sang the Dragon Ball song in a straight snack bar and people warmed up to me instantly! hahaha
Very important to share male sex worker stories and insights. Well done and thank you to your guest for being so open!
Thank you! It is a subject we would like to cover more in depth in the future.
@@TokyoBTM as an anthropologist who did his dissertation with male sex workers, I look forward to it. Lesbian, non-binary and trans sex worker stories are even further marginalized, so when you are exploring keep an ear out for them too if they care to share!
- Lots of 💕
All westerners are known the world over for being drunk trouble makers lol
But I have to say a very good insight into Japanese life and in particular gay life there.
And it doesn't seem expensive in comparison to say Montreal or UK London Soho bars.
I had to limit myself to 1 or 2 drinks in the UK when I was there. I would go broke fast! haha
@@TokyoBTM
I'm from Hull in the north and an average night out at the weekend I would get through £60 to £80 just on drinking lol. Didn't include entry or cabs.
I believe it!
omg i dunno how I found this channel but ty for being around
Glad you found us! Stay a while!
Very informative, thank you for sharing this
You are so welcome
I'm late to this but SM in terms of BDSM stands for Sadism and Masochism it's also cut short as SadoMasochism
I'm glad he was blunt and I 100% get it, I used to work in the gay club strip in LA and the amount of people that act like toddlers that have no home training is insane, I've had people come in and get mad because we couldn't understand them because they don't speak English as well, and I think the perfect parallel in America in gay bars is Bachlorette parties, it's all the time, these women go to a gay bar and get so drunk, ruin shows, sexually harrass men at a gay bar and get angry because someone told them off for groping them and being a mess in a gay bar. It's one of those things where, if you are an outsider, that is not your space and it's your responsibility to learn what is acceptable there if you're going to go, otherwise, just stay home.
Oh I never thought about relating it to all those parties you hear about! But yes, fully agree! I think they would draw a lot of parallels! Thank you for saying so!
I really appreciate his explanation. When I visited Nichome I ventured from Tokyo Eagle to a quieter bar and was refused upon entering the door. Normally I’d call that racism, but I did do my research and I understood that these bars provide an entertainment style hosting that a foreigner wouldn’t understand so they save everyone involved the confusion and awkwardness. I get it. STILL (and I spoke about this to a very cute local) as a respectful foreigner who can handle his alcohol, I would loved to have witnessed an authentic snack bar even if I don’t entirely understand what’s going on, and the more that the etiquette is explained and shared, the more it can be learned and applied. Refusing someone at the door doesn’t make the bar any less mysterious and it also doesn’t make the bar any money. But I have seen my fair share of entitled (white) male tourists running rampant and loudly through the streets of Tokyo and fully respect their choice. I’ll finish with as much as I look forward to moving to Japan, Tokyo was the only place where I have been refused service and I’ll never forget that.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment David. There is a movement going on where establishments will make it more obvious which snack bars welcome foreigners I believe. I would like to cover that if I can sometime so that we can start recommending snack bars to visit because I would like you to experience a snack bar experience as well!
Why the need to share the race of these “entitled” male tourists. I’ve seen black American soldiers in Germany behaving loud and obnoxious. People are people., there’s no race that is better behaved than another.
@@dg1006 I have to mention race because in America people are refused service because the color of their skin. And Japan is the only place probably in the world where white people are refused service and that’s really the only reason this is a topic of discussion. Why are you offended that I mentioned the race of these tourists? Why is it when white people are accused of doing something wrong, they prefer to be generalized. I’m mentioning my experience just as you mentioned yours in Germany. So there we are. And the facts still stand.
oh! i remember "cover charges" here in the usa as money for entrance, but it was the first thing you encountered...it's been ages since i've seen it though. i would be surprised by what might look to me as an "exit fee" :-D. i suppose i'd be suspicious if it was a tourist trap only for foreigners, but if i knew everyone was paying it (like how everyone is handing over money for cover charges at the entrance) then it would seem less risk of shady business. though i remember hearing people talk about how to get into places without paying cover might just be being friends with certain people or being good looking, so then if i were in such a line, i'd be back to being suspicious :-) hmm maybe like computer games, night clubs went from admission fee to "free to play with monetization as you go"
There are places that give discounts depending on who you are, but that is clearly written out front or on the flyers
I've lived in Japan for over 25 years. Please do not intake everything this bartender says and let it effect your perspective of Japan. To be honest Ive never been to a gay bar so I don't know how it is in the business, but i've been to many good bars all over the city and had NEVER seen anyone be rejected unless they were dead drunk and looking for trouble, and that goes for anyone white,black,yellow,cat,dog,and ducks.
Agreed! I think some people may mistake what he says as applying to everyone and every bar but in reality there are so many bars here that operate in different ways!
Another great video, its always interesting seeing what its like in Japan.
I cant say id want to visit after all the videos I've seen but it looks like an interesting place.
Haha I hope our videos aren't turning people off of Japan!
it was really sooo interesting, thank u
Glad you enjoyed it!
Expect to pay 100 dollars in a tiny, ordinary bar where you are not even wanted? Sorry, that does not sound like a good deal to me. Oh, and you need to speak at least a little Japanese and there is no entertainment at all. So, all that and I need to pay 100 dollars for a drink. lol If I wanted to be used and abused, I could just read the comments section on TH-cam while drowning my sorrows in beer and probably save 90 dollars.
I can understand your point, but I also think that snack bars like these can also offer some great experiences. The mama-sans, like Ko-san here, are great entertainers and take care of their patrons, listening to their problems and showing them a good time. But I do agree that there is a difference between other bars in the world that can lead to misunderstandings. I hope this video helped shine light on it more though! Thanks for watching!
And your response / attitude is precisely why foreigners are not welcomed.
Thank you for clearing the air.
@@yangtzeling7468 you have to understand: what is being described in this video is basically one of the most *evil* things you can do in any other country short of being arrested. Imagine if someone described that in their country, you were required to wear outside shoes on inside your house. It feels like that, but it also has a flavor of insult to it, too. It’s like saying... “pigs wear shoes in the house, so you have to wear shoes in the house.” And you can start to see why the reaction is the way it is.
@@jendubay3782 In my other comments , I did mention that the Japanese are quite elitist in their own way ( just like the parisian ).
I won’t label it as evil but they do have their own ways of doing things.
They take great pride and to be questioned regarding their integrity is a great insult.
This culture is something that a foreigner cannot fathom unless he lives in Japan .
On the contrary, there are many westerners who take up living in Japan because the emphasis on politeness , consideration and just decent behaviour is so refreshing and welcoming.
As a non American, who lived abroad in other countries I kinda agree with the "no foreign" rule. Especially if you are just gonna be loud and disrespectful. Which tourists often are. I'm sorry but there's a huge difference between a tourist on holiday and a foreign trying to partake in someone else's culture. I was born and raised in Italy, so like, so many tourists in the summer and yes its great but can also be annoying af. And in places like queer bars especially. If you are not a local who knows what type of bar it is and what customs and rules are in place it can be dangerous for the staff and locals there.
Ahh I'm half Japanese, half Black, born in Japan, mostly raised in the States, but to many Japanese people, I look only like a foreigner (that beautiful melanin!!). I speak Japanese fluently and I've never been refused service in Japan. My American friends definitely report differently. I agree that it's wrong to generalize or hold prejudice against all foreigners. At the same time, a lot of foreigners don't know how to act!! The sense of entitlement is strong, phew!! One my of ex friends came to visit me when I was living in Japan, and they were so rude the entire time, I found myself apologizing to almost everyone we encountered. I tried to teach them but they were so resistant to it. One example was the escalator; I told them that they were blocking people by standing on the left, and they REFUSED to move. Said people could go around them. I was stunned. Then I pulled her to the right and scolded her 🤣 Don't be like this person!!
@@TokyoBTM My pleasure ☺ Happy to help!
Our comment disappeared! But just wanted to say thank you for sharing as this gives some specific areas we can improve upon as our video needed more examples to provide some background as to why Ko-san felt the way he felt.
Love these episodes about the local community establishments. The owner is definitely fierce, I think there could be a great conversations with him. His aurora is rather strong for sure lol and really love how frank he is about everything. A few things he mentioned came as a shock but very understandable: 1. Prepare before you travel - People don't do that anymore but then local culture is a bit hard to prepare since not much has been written (but now we have this video to know more about snack bars
Thanks for the comment King Leung! Yes, I think this can help people make more informed choices when coming here and going to snack bars. I hope it encourages people by providing information as opposed to turning people away, but yea!
There's manners and people being rude, which I know happens in Japan (or everywhere else with tourists for that matter), but there's also the blatant discrimination and sense of superiority in Japanese society, and this video quite frankly was very upsetting and annoying about that:
First of all Japanese tourists rarely take the time to learn another language in order to visit other countries, so why is it that a lot of japanese people (this bar owner included) feel like they can demand a somewhat high level of japanese fluency to visit japan? That's very asymmetrical. It's different for me to be able to order two beers in japanese than me being able to understand japanese signs saying there is お通し and what that is. In fact many such places don't even have a sign saying that.
It's not that people don't give a shit sometimes, like Meng said, people are just not expecting a random charge when it wasn't mentioned upfront, when there is no sign saying it, him asking people to just "ignore random extra charges" when you go to a bar is very "WTF", i mean, I check my bills back home too, people accidentally charge the wrong table sometime and it's not fair to pay for someone else's mistake. Nor it is fair to expect that people won't have questions if you don't explain the rules
This video exudes that arrogance too, like, people may try to learn a bit of japanese, but it's not like every tourist needs to learn every language well enough to understand these things in order to travel to a place, just not being rude if you're not understood or not understanding is the basics, expecting people to be fluent in every language and refusing to even try to accomodate someone who doesn't speak your language is quite arrogant. And I'm not saying it in the entitled "everyone should learn english" way some people associate with americans ( first, I'm not american, and I'm actually a polyglot who speaks a bit of japanese, so I try to learn a bit before I go because 1 I am good with languages and 2 I enjoy studying them), it's just the "try to be nice to people who decide to visit your country and try out your business.
Also the implication that foreigners cannot have deep discussions and chill chats at a bar (my favourite activity ever) is at minimum discriminatory and quite likely racist, and using that as an excuse to "close the gates of communities off" to most of the world is quite something.
It is pretty normal for tourists not to always speak the language so, yeah, some Japanese people have to tone down their arrogance and this guy is a prime example
Hi Miguel, thanks so much for the thoughtful comment!
Yes, I feel this is a very complicated topic. I worked as a waiter in a restaurant for many years in Canada. When foreign tourists would come in and not tip (because they didn't have the custom in their country) the workers would get upset because, in Canada, tipping in that industry was a essential part of making a living. Not tipping would directly impact someone's livelihood. The waiters in the restaurant would say, "I wish people would learn about Canadian restaurant customs before coming to a Canadian restaurant". So while I totally understand where you are coming from - in fact, I have felt like this too before! I have thought, "why am I being charged this?" "Why I am being treated like this?" At the same time, I remember seeing the other side at home in Canada, the damage/upset that would result from people not learning about my culture, so this talk really gave me some food for thought.
As for the language, yea, I think it is unfair to expect everyone speak perfect Japanese, but I think Ko-san was just trying to highlight the difference between people who come in and demand/expect Japanese people to speak English to them as opposed to asking if it's ok to speak English. I actually feel most Japanese don't expect people to speak Japanese and will happily speak English, in my experience though.
On a final note, there are lots of really welcoming snack bars here with mama-san's willing to accommodate guests, so there are so many positive experiences to be had here! There are also tourists who want the world to revolve around them. I hope this video helps both bar owners and bar visitors learn about each other so they can have better experiences together!
Thanks again and hope to see you around soon!
@@TokyoBTM That thing with finding the surprise charge happened to me when I was in Japan, too, and it wasn't too pleasant, it was only after I left the restaurant pissed off after being charged "something I didn't order" that I remembered that they pull this grift sometimes where they dont tell you they will charge you 10% extra and will not explain what it is.
Tipping at least can be explained, as I have moved from a no-tipping culture to a tipping one and i understand it very well. As much as it sucks for waiters when people don't tip because they understand the concept, at least it isn't a mandatory surprise and it can be explained as "here in the US or canada it is customary to add a gratuity for your waiter since we get paid in tips a lot" instead of "Here's some mandatory number that I didn't tell you about and you're obligated to pay for no discernible reason, I just tricked you into it and hid it from you". Furthermore, again, as much as it sucks for waiters, people who don't know they have to tip are not racially profiled and told to get out very rudely in the US or Canada, I've never seen that, while being rudely kicked out of a bar in japan as soon as I set foot on it *has* happened to me.
Dunno, the tone in this video matches a lot of the negative stereotypes about "anyone who is not japanese", and using them as an excuse for blanket discrimination. Tipping culture is a misunderstanding (a very sucky one for waiters, again), but at least no one is being rudely kicked out or discriminated against on the basis of their appearance.
Yeah, I can see your point. I think there are a lot of places that welcome foreigners with open arms! Hopefully we will be able to cover more of these bars as we go along so people can choose from a variety when they are thinking about coming out here!
I live in Poland, I never hear tourists speak Polish. They speak English, some try to talk to us in their own language (this one is a bit pathetic), but we're not assholes and don't deny people help or service because they're foreigners. Imho British, American Australian people should learn some basics since they don't have to learn English as their second language.
I'm hella late with comment, but.... I live in a place that's known for being a summer vacation spot mainly for rich people. So I 1000% get the "these visitors don't have manners can we just not let them in" mentality. A lot of the tourists that come here view people who live here as their personal workers. They just see the area as their vacation get away and don't really care about how they act. Plus the sheer amount of them is overwhelming. Obviously it's not all tourists, but its enough that I have quite a negative view of tourists. I have too many stories of bad tourists. My faith in humanity has gone down. And that's just here in the US.
Bars in japan?? That get a bunch of annoying tourists that don't care to learn japanese or manners? If I was japanese I too would mentally groan if I saw a foreigner walk into a bar I worked at. I wouldn't turn them away, but I'd be on edge. Cause that's how I am here. I see a summer tourist and my brain goes "ew". It's not right, but it's very understandable
Love the insight you guys provide with this one. Hits the nail on the head. Can’t wait to visit. And from what he was saying. I think I’m gonna be fine. :)
Very open and fun guy, loved him.
Was a fun chat!
I mean, I think when people go and become tourists abroad, they have a tendency to forget basic manners. Also, no matter what language one speaks, when they go abroad, they expect people to speak it. It is the tourist effect where for a while some people seem to develop a "main character of a telenovela" persona hahaha!
What is unacceptable though is creating spaces forbidden to foreigners, put that in any other country and it wouldn't go under the radar for long and it shouldn't honestly.
Yes, I agree that all bars should be open to everyone, but I hope at least that this provides some insight on the struggles! I have seen the scene change for the positive over the years, so I feel it will continue to get better!
@@TokyoBTM Gay men need to have each others back more, I know there are rude foreigners, but some of it is racial which is sad.
Yea we have to support one another in the community!
But I think foreigners also need to understand that many Japanese gay bars are not like foreign bars or clubs. The snack bars are usually very small and actually guests should come with an attitude of entering someone's home. The fact the bar owners are called "Mama-san" (in the best case) comes from the fact they really treat their customers like family. Many places even just let people in by introduction, meaning that a regular customer has to "vouch" for the new person coming in. The conversations in a snack bar can be very deep at times and I can understand you don't necessarily want someone in there that doesn't fit with your regular customers.
@@bodo887 Maybe I got lucky then, probably my twink body at the time when I hit up a few bars in Shinjuku. I'm also reserved, so I'm not going to cause a scene and upset the bar owners.