Gracie Jiu-Jitsu vs "TRADITIONAL" Jiu-Jitsu
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ย. 2021
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Jujitsu is and always will be a Japanese art. It is not Brazilian and Gracies did not invent it.
I always thought jujitsu came from China and India before it. 🤷♂️
@@KamaJiuJitsu if youre talking about martial arts in general, then yes, india is the birthplace of all martial arts. As it progressed through the ages, certain peoples grew affinity towards it more than others. Needless to say, the indians didnt accept it as well as the Chinese and Japanese did (in comparison).
Ju Jitsu in its current form can be considered a Japanese martial art. the ju jitsu strikers turned it into karate. the ju jitsu wrestlers turned it into judo. the ju jitsu joint lock specialists turn it into aikido. the ju jitsu grapplers turned it into bjj..and so on.
@@KamaJiuJitsu theres no evidence it came from China or even india
All martial arts come from Pankration. Alexander The Great brought it to India. You had 1 Chinese Monk and 1 Indian Monk record the ground fighting skills. Pankration led to The Indian Pradal Systems which gave birth to Muay Boran-Muay Thai.
You're right. They just made it a lot more practical and effective
My first Japanese jj school was yagyu ryu jujutsu. It incorporated throws, takedowns, joint locks, grappling, pins, and weapons. Bjj is excellent but i would do my best to not go to the ground in real life
Absolutely correct.
I have been learning combat Japanese jujutsu for nearly seven yrs now. I live in Florida. I know my lineage and I am very proud of it. We do plenty of Sambon and Randori along with free fighting full contact sparing and we also compete in open-style martial arts tournaments. We also learn weapons and knife fighting offense and defense. We do plenty of groundwork as well. My Sensei is a Master's with over 50 yrs of experience and is 10th degree. Being a retired US Army Soldier, one for sure I learned on my deployments, the last place I want to be is on the ground grappling with the enemy and if you believe most street fights are one on one and not being attacked by multiple opponents, then statically you are incorrect. I say BJJ has the upper hand on the ground but in a real combat situation, you will die. BJJ Cool sport but have fun going on the ground on hard turf asphalt, rocks, glass, and the multi enemy ready to jump you. Gracie and BJJ is not jujutsu, It originated from judoka and you took from that and added a few stuff and created a good style for your background in Brazile but not for warfare and the Samurai is all about war. Judo and Aikido come from Jujutsu from mainland Japan and Jujutsu has different Ryu styles with some putting more attention to certain things than others such as strikes, punches, throws, kicks, grappling, kenzetsu Waza and etc. Jujjutsu is traditionally an offense art for combat warfare and its techniques are very dangerous but it also makes a modern twist of amazing defense art against deadly aggressors. So sorry you never had the privilege to train with real today modern Japanese Jujutsu Masters. They can be found just have to find a real school such as Miyama Ryu or Dai Nan Wan Ryu or Owaza Ryu just to name a few here. Oss. By the way, it takes an average of 5 to 8 yrs to attain a Black belt from a REAL Japanese Jujutsu Ryu. Domo.
Domo
Actually most hand to hand combat scenarios in military ops include grappling at 71% incidence rate, rifle butt strikes pistol whips etc. making up the other instances.
If you train knife defence your art is bullshit. You can't defend against a knife attack. Reality shows this time and time again, every rational person accepts the evidence, the only people still clinging on to this ridiculous idea are traditional martial artists that have never tested their idealised techniques against a resisting opponent.
Good video and well said. I'm a black belt, instructor and I was a dojo owner / operator in Miami prior to moving 3 years ago. I taught a modern "traditional Japanese based" Ju-Jitsu, I'd say the main fault in most Ju-Jitsu schools is lack of pressure testing and hard sparing, rolling, randori. In my dojo it was mandatory to have hand, feet and head gear for realistic non-scripted (within reason, no throat chops etc. allowed) fighting incorporating punches, kicks, knees, elbows, throws, joint locks, sweeps, etc. And that's when you learn what works for you and what doesn't. A real eye opener to some who'd never gone live before.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Gracie Jujitsu is derived from Judo Newaza, so idk if I'd call it traditional per se.
Japanese Jujitsu(traditional) refers to the umbrella term of Jujitsu meaning the ancient forms of Jujitsu that Judo and other arts are derived from.
I'll correct you: The Gracies learned from a Kodokan trained jiujitsuka named Mitsuyo Maeda. Now, at that time, everyone was calling it "Kano Jiujitsu". So, what they learned, Kosen style jiujitsu/judo/grappling, predates what we, and everyone else, understand, today, as Judo. The Term, Judo, was in use, but it wasn't blanket, and it certainly wasn't exclusive. Let them call it what they like. It's freakin Jiujitsu.
@@grappler240 sort of agree, but Jigoro named his style Judo though he was originally a jujutsu technician before he removed the deadly elements away and created the sport, Judo. Maeda was his student when he came to Brazile. Kinda like the early days, Wado Ryu Karate called themselves Wado Ryu Jutsu but it is mostly karate-do. with some jujutsu in it. Back then everyone heard of jujitsu which is why early days while away the Judoka would call it that cause sounded more familiar to foreigners. This side of the world never heard the term Judo back then.
I trained Japanese Ju Jitsu, best decision of my life. And i liked that its not THAT popular, and as u said u dont know any who have trained it but thats the cool thing tho cuz i know how bjj works because its so popular all people can see how it works, not with jjj so almost nobody knows many of the techniques and what we can do.. :) sorry for bad english hope someone understands me or my point lol
How cute haha you dont go with the flow and you know how to beat average BJJ players with secret techniques 🙂😄
@@dylan_krishna_777 your response is very derogatory. Secret techniques were not mentioned, you are using semantics. NH clearly meant that as JJJ is less popular people will not be as accustomed to the techniques as apposed to other martial arts. JJJ is very effective for stand up self defence , and most people would rather finish standing in a real life situation. JJJ focuses on defending and finishing fast, resulting in the oppressor being badly beaten or have broken limbs or, ya know, dead. JJJ does have a sport side to it but honestly it's a bit shit. BJJ is far better for sports, but a well practiced JJJ student is much more effective on the streets. Who wants to roll on the concrete if you can finish a confrontation still standing?
@@bravepills i ment that BJJ is a great art to defend your self on the street but it have some gaps ( very little standing up grappeling -trows) and JJJ dont have to be deady its how the practitioner uses it on the street.
As a JJJ black belt in a modern school and a BJJ blue belt, its great for self defense + they complement each other very well.
wow man you have a great portofolio already to defend yourself in a self defense situation . Are your going for the black belt in BJJ also?
Your JJJ black is the equivalent to a BJJ blue belt which is why you are not a black belt in both. How do I know? Because nearly all traditional Jujitsu guys who step into a BJJ gym and do some rolling learn that they're not that good due to the lack of sparring and time they wasted doing Aikido techniques.
@@mikeylitchfield4651 Casual detected. I also have a Judo black belt because of my JJJ schools heavy focus on throws and locks. Thats why Im aiming for my BJJ Black Belt because you cant be great at everything without considerable time on the mats focusing on a given area of combat. Always cross train, thats how you find gaps in your style and fill them in.
@@redpilljujitsu9068 Yes you're right I am a JJJ casual because there is no other kind as far as I know. Name one JJJ gym that teaches 5 days a week and makes sparring a regular part of the training. If you can name one I might change my tune.
Also I do just that. I'm currently doing MMA kickboxing and BJJ which I think eliminates probably all of the gaps. I don't consider poorly taught Judo and any Aikido techniques to be filling gaps though. That's just a waste of time that could be spent doing something more useful.
@@mikeylitchfield4651 The fact that you think JJJ is poorly taught judo and aikido techniques speaks volumes about the lack of knowledge about modern JJJ. Where do you think the majority of BJJ Judo and Aikido came from? They were one art Jujitsu/Jujutsu. There are shit schools and there are awesome ones. Hokuto Ryu Jujutsu and the WJJC are my favorite.
The modern crew don't have much idea of what real Japanese Jiu Jitsu is. Much of it has been lost, although not completely. The remainder shielded from prying eyes. What you encounter now is rehashed Judo. It is the art of the Samurai. The art of trained soldiers & assassins. Not for sport and not for egotists looking to win competitions. Those guys didn't go to the ground if possible because on the Battlefield that was most likely the end of You. The same as it will be in the real world if there are committed secondary attackers.
You need to shut up. You're the one with the ego and you don't even know it. People without ego's get inside a ring and allow themselves to get punched in the face to test their skill. P*ssies who can't fight exist in an echo chamber where they smell their own farts and believe that getting in a ring and boxing or getting on the mat and rolling is beneath them. I know the difference between a sport and someone trying to murder someone of course but the person who gets stuck in is going to be far closer to combat effective than someone who does dance choreography and drills in a leisure hall. This is common sense. Why do you traditional martial artists not understand that none of you can fight because you don't fight?
Main thing is that you get benefits from training. Names are secondary.
I had the same experience you had w The Judo gym at a few bjj gyms…Haha one place, the coach even went on as far as not letting me roll w his students but rolled w me and every time he got me to tap he would say “see how much better bjj is?” But wouldnt dare stand up against me…. Anyway, I’ve now found a bjj gym where I can train and learn how to improve my ground game without having the ego shit
That's what I've notice at my gym we have kickboxing, kyokushin karate, judo, wrestling and bjj and bjj guys only(they dont do striking or wrestling) just there for the bjj classes only some of them where very ego driven very cocky etc cant take a punch kicks but act all big and mighty because they sumitted judo guys and wrestlers well one of the bjj members was rolling with a mma guy who does all the criculums that gym offered the bjj guy acted very cocky bragging etc so it got of hand they started fighting and the mma dude was throwing punches and some how they all got up and the mma guy did a harai ogoshi on him really bad and the bjj guy screamed really loud in pain thankfully he wasn't severely injured but they both got kicked out of the gym I left that gym because some strikers and grapplers were in ego competition
Most Traditional JuJutsu (TJJ or Japanese JuJutsu) schools in the US aren't actually TJJ. A lot of places just take Akido and claim it's TJJ or just made a entirely new martial art and claim it's TJJ. Real TJJ are attached to a Ryuha (war school) and teach Kenjutsu (sword fighting), honojutusu (arresting), Kyūjutsu (archery), Taijutsu (hand to hand/ kick boxing), jujutsu (wrestling/grappling), etc - all together as a unified fight system, with different sub-components. Judo was different when it started, because it excluded all of the other fighting sub-systems and just focused on wrestling and grappling and turned it into a sport and about internal cultivation (this is true for all the other budo martial arts today).
The Gracies are masters of reinventing history. They never even mention Pires Donato dos Reis or Geo Omori, the ones that taught the Gracies judo.
the gracie's seem to be very arrogant and have big ego and seem to act like they are superior to everyone else
I do both BJJ and Judo. Got into a fight once and in the moment I instinctively went Judo style. Made so much more sense in the moment. Explosive and with a sense of urgency. Finished it in two seconds . Wouldn’t be caught dead patiently wearing down someone on the ground for a submission. However, on the mat in a controlled environment I prefer BJJ style.
So you recommend judo above BJJ because judo helped you in that situation?
@@dylan_krishna_777 i love both, i believe they are two different sides of the same coin. I use to think the bjj rules were superior but now i realise the judo way was teaching me a mindset i didnt realise. I think you cant go wrong learning either. however, i want my children to definitely start Judo first for various reasons.
What do you think of Japanese jiu jitsu is that also a good mix with BJJ
In japanse jiu jitsu they have trows , wristlocks, ground fighting, standup grappeling and abit of striking and how to defend that.
@@dylan_krishna_777 im not too sure. I think the issue is that japanese jitz is very nasty and not too suited for competition. You cant practice kicking someone in the knee or eye gouging at 100% speed. judo destroyed the popularity of juijitsu in japan 100 years ago for a few reasons. Judo was made friendlier which means it can often be practised at high speed and strength which ironically, helps in real situations because your muscle memory is primed. Also judo has more randori, and bjj 'rolling'. This method of training is superior because you are constantly practicing with real resistance so you figure out what works and what doesnt fairly quickly. I could be wrong about traditional jitz and more than happy to be corrected by anyone who knows more about it.
The whole thing is really irritating. It depends why you train. If you want to defend yourself, 'sport' Jiu Jitsu sorry, it sucks. If you want sport, train BJJ, if you want to learn self defence, learn Jujutsu. It all depends on why you want to train, sport or self defence.
"who does japanese jujutsu?" ... I do and to be honest having done both japanese jujutsu is BETTER. Sorry not sorry.
Good for you to have found what you love!
I googled ”douche” and ended up here
Funny how google knows what you are and what you need, huh? That’s some invasion of your privacy, don’t you think?
Hi Ryan I got you on Full Volume .. Try & record With More Volume ...PLEASE....
I’ll try.
“Japanese JuJitsu” is a pretty open term… pretty much like saying “Brazilian JiuJitsu” is. There are many types or “Ryu’s”.
Anyone can break down the history of what became what and from where (as some have already done here). It would be useful to attain a good overall understanding of the history to aide in understanding differences.
I’ve studied Kodokan Judo, am an Army Combatives Instructor and currently studying Danzan Ryu Jujitsu (DZR) which is sometimes referred to as “traditional Japanese Jujitsu”; however, it’s architect Prof. Henry S Okazaki studded multiple styles of jujitsu in Hawaii as well as Japan (similarly like Jigoro Kano), and even earned his Sandan at the Kodokan, as well as studying many other forms of martial arts, created Danzan Ryu.
Danzan Ryu is studied as a traditional art in a traditional Japanese setting and is considered a “complete” art. Our lists consist of soft/hand (standing) escapes and constrictions, throws, mat techniques, self defense techniques, advanced techniques, “hidden” or deeper techniques, blocks, punches, kicks, stick techniques, body movements (standing and ground), etc. There is even a healing art that is submerged into Danzan Ryu called Seifukujitsu that Okazaki also created. Along with these techniques, there is a strong esoteric emphasis on the self and learning how these principles connect and apply to the physical techniques as well as everything around us. This is considered a very deep art with a ton of content.
From my understanding, Gracie JiuJitsu contains more than many other forms of BJJ; however, each place the main emphasis on ground techniques. While the same or similar techniques are taught in Danzan Ryu, they are not practiced as much. Essentially, Gracie/BJJ have perfected the “Shime” or (constrictions) list of DZR and are pressure tested a lot more. Whereas DZR doesn’t generally focus on one thing or the other.
This would result in BJJ/Gracie practitioners being better ground fighters than a traditional JJJ or DZR practitioner… which is probably where the author of this video was able to earn the back of the instructor.
Similarly, as with any practice, the thing you practice more than another person will generally be better.
For instance, the bjj element in the MACP that I instruct has plenty of pressure testing, learning these drills and having all that rolling/mat time really upped my ground game and I feel quite reliable there; however, I may not be as good as a bjj/Gracie practitioner. Pre ground (standing), I’m probably more prepared, (but not as prepared as a Judo practitioner). In regards to striking, I’m probably more prepared than Judo or bjj practitioners, but not as much as a striking art practitioner. In one DZR lineage I studied under, advanced students started learning Iaido (Japanese sword).
So, I know people like to compare (which art is better) often, and I enjoy watching them… but it’s really what’s good for you? What are you looking for? How are you looking at/wanting to solve potential “issues”?
Every art/Ryu has its “thing”, and can compliment one another. Just gotta keep an open mind, look at what this style or that style has to offer, add it to your toolbox, learn to incorporate everything and come up with your style.
Hope this comment was informative. Ciao!
I think you really summed up Danzan Ryu. I got Danzan my Ryu shodan about 4 years ago. its definately a deep art and a complete art. Yes if I did randori with a judoka he would throw me. but absolutely if im fighting a non grappler they will get thrown. they make sure you can do the technique. Anyway, its deep and effective. like when we practice say defending a strike, well believe me to get to shodan they WILL try to hit you, every time you practice that technique. I have been punched many, many times practicing techiques. the person throwing the punch gets to experience really punching the person and on the other end learns how to get out if way and block the strike then go into a throw or takedown. i have also had a taste of what the higher belts do, like the 3rd and 4th degree black belts seens to reach this super smooth, gentle, prescise like sublevel where they are cutting down time and what seems findind the pre technique llike what happens when a person just barely hardly moves and being able to start a technique there......hmmmm, deeo stuff but it starts with some hard throws like O Goshi, si ogoshi and. om its a deep art. also, used to be able to become state certified massage tharapist through our system and some of its healing arts.
The term 'complete art' I believe sets up the studying of martial art really well. Martial arts is so wide and vast that many practitioners take a part of it and specialize in it and then say their's the best. While they might be the best at throws, martial arts is more than just throws. With MMA and bjj gaining so much attention you will get practitioners that believe it's the best and lump everything else as ineffective. That's just not true. You might be a master of your art but not all arts and some arts are ineffective depending on match-ups.
Many years ago when I got my black belt, my teacher told me to go out and learn from different styles. I chose shotokan karate, judo and iaijutsu. Shotokan karate was a commercial dojo and didn't go deep in anything so I rose quickly. They were more focused on making money than art. Judo like a typical class at a local university. I enjoyed it. Iaijutsu was very traditional and old school. Not commercial so shotokan and iaijutsu had a different feel. With iaijutsu you can do one kata for months to get it right. My sensei wanted us to get a view of the world with daito-ryu as a base. We had a boxer in the group and wanted to know what techniques would work against them. We brought in guys from panacea to learn what best to do on the ground (the best I could do against them is defend well. Way too fast and slippery.) Weapons masters, strikers, kicking styles. To be a complete art we learned it all. That's the best way to learn things. We even did healing because of the injuries and pure ki techniques (found that impractical, moving people around using breath and movement will get you hurt in a fight but I guess it was fun to try). What I didn't like is the higher up you go, they show you the deadlier and dirtier techniques but looking back at it if you want a 'complete art' you should know this. Not everyone will fight fair.
In Romania I used to visit a Jiujitsu dojo and watch them spar. Strikes, kicks, weapons plus the Judo stuff - throws, armbars, chokes and iirc also the ground techniques. A pretty well-rounded art. I look at BJJ and all I see is ground stuff. Yeah, chokes and stuff but on the ground. No strikes, no kicks.
I’m small and 58, trained 23 years now beginning with a GAT Basics (or whatever it was called then) certified instructor. We did all the one to one unarmed Gracie techniques then a couple sport moves and so on. This went on for several years. Like many schools born after UFC1 they eventually focused more on sport with the rise of the U.S. tournament scene. ANYWAYS FAST FORWARD to this past weekend. I’m retired and work p/t as a shuttle driver at the airport. A guy probably late 40’s, good sized and fit, looked like an off duty LEO, starts blasting his horn at the departure curb as I was unloading a family. He exited his vehicle and marched up and starts point his finger at me basically conveying to me that I’d better move out of his way immediately (I was in the right to be where I pulled up) any ways he starts yelling trying to get me to fold. I was calm and de-escalated the situation verbally and with non confrontational body language, but maintaining spatial/positional awareness (shit, I worked field probation for twenty years so I’m experienced with confrontational asswipes). BOTTOM LINE: If that individual had gotten physical, all that would have mattered is my ability to effectively close the distance, try not to get busted up and dominate a stable Velcro-like clinch to takedown then fight for top control until airport PD arrives.
I like sportive rolling, and the high intensity is very important for developing reflexes and forward thinking and improvisational skills, but in reality my spider guard, berimbolo ability, DLR guard or inside/outside ashi-garami leg entanglement what have you will be 95% useless in that scenario. Being 5’8 160 lbs tops, I can’t get in a fisticuffs exchange with someone who, if he landed a few square shots would neutralize me. For this reason and with the blessings of the school owner and head instructor, my teaching day consists only of the Gracie (Combatives) initial volumes. I’d rather be able to do that system or similarly the Kama system in my sleep than all the inverted trickery in the world (yeah, it’s fun and effective on the mat, but an unexpected (they always are) confrontational fool will or should set your priorities straight
Well said.
Biggest problem is that because there is a Brazilian Jujutsu, they assume that Japanese Jujutsu is also a single art. When in reality there is no such thing. There are several styles of Jujutsu, some of which originate from Japan, some of which do not. BJJ is just one of them.
Calling it Gracie Jujutsu might have avoided this problem but too late now.
There is a traditional Japanese Jiu-jitsu dojo in Bolton Connecticut. The owner says any Martial Artist is welcome to drop in. He's an Airforce Officer was stationed way too long in Japan. He brought it back with him. They have different belt ranks, they don't roll/no contact grappling, there's alot of knife defense and similar to hopkido. It's a good form of self defense but doesn't do it for me the way BJJ does.
Tony Pacenski trained in "traditional" jujutsu. He has a video of his black belt test from a few years ago. Don't know how much of the stuff he learned from it he still does, but he did learn it despite already being a third degree black belt in jiu-jitsu.
Cool video! It does seem that most bjj gyms refer to Gracie Jiujitsu as being old school jiujitsu or traditional.
After 1 lesson decided he knows about jjj .A lot more to it than grappling
Not there. Started from feet. Maybe other places. I wouldn’t know. But remember I’m GJJ, not BJJ.
@@KamaJiuJitsuthere are good schools and bad schools, there are plenty of traditional Japanese jiu jitsu schools in Europe .
Some in my school look down on BJJ, I have a healthy respect for all and always open to learning.
That’s all good. All humans tend to favor their tribe more than outside tribes.
“I know people do, but I don’t know anybody who does.” Video ends here.
I know that in Spain, Japanese jiujitsu is more popular than in the States
Volume?
Should have joined a wrestling club, that would have been good training.
I love this art I have started my training at 7 now I am 18
To me, Jiu-Jitsu is just Jiu-Jitsu. Never mind some person adding his name to it.
If that works for you, go with it.
It's hard to find someone who teaches legit jjj
Theres some nice Aikijujutsu to watch on youtube (the older the better )that shows close to real JJ techniques. As a side note ,lots of the wrist locks ,arm locks and throws come from attack/defence where only one opponent has a weapon(example is trying to pull a katana from your enemies saya {scabbard) only to have your wrist snapped off by his use of the handle to lock your wrist--that hurts a lot!
One was made for war the other was not.
The extent of REAL Japanese Jujitsu is going to be more like the Jiu Jitsu you see in old mma fights in Pride, If you look at the old Japanese fighters, you will see JJJ. With the gi, you will see some more judo style cross collar chokes, and people usually just use closed full guard, normal half guard, open guard (both feet on hips), and butterfly. My first taste of jiu jitsu was Japanese, and I had a coach who was JJJ world champion in the 90s (like Sambo.) He was a very good coach, and even used to say that BJJ is better overall for the ground, a black belt in JJJ being around a purple belt in BJJ. It takes around 3-3.5 years on average to get your black belt in JJJ. He ended up training BJJ while he was a professional fighter and heavily implemented it into his style of teaching.
I’ve since moved and I’ve been training BJJ for 2 years. I personally think BJJ is better overall, and the techniques simply work better. The main issue with JJJ, is the same one with Karate, and Tae Kwon-do. It has been watered down. But every now and then, you can find a really good, old school gym that isn’t BS. There is a lot of enforcing your will and strength in JJJ, whereas BJJ is more finesse, and more magical, if you will. However, GOOD JJJ is effective and you will be able to defend yourself just fine if that’s all you can find.
I normally don’t comment, but I have seen people ask this question a lot. Just my 2 cents. Take this from someone who has trained both.
I recommend BJJ, no questions asked.
What would you recomend for law enforcement between JJJ and BJJ?
@@rudipell90 BJJ! And usually at your local MMA/BJJ gym they will offer a Muay Thai class as well, so if you want to learn how to strike - punching, kicks, knees, elbows, clinch, all that, you can learn that to.
I recommend judo over bjj
@@rudipell90I wouldn’t recommend BJJ for law in enforcement. Law enforcement has many scenarios. Criminals use weapons, knives, surprise attacks, etc. BJJ is a ground art. However, an enemy can knock a man out without being taken to the ground.
JJJ already had ground work. BJJ is a subset of JJJ that focuses on ground only. Definitely, Japanese Jiu Jitsu is the complete art. Throws, joint locks, grappling, use of weapons, disarm an enemy who has a weapon, striking, kicks.
You will be more prepared for more different situations. Unlike BJJ tell me if the dude who made this comment will go to the ground on glass, concrete floors, uneven floors that can alter the weight in the direction he doesn’t want it to go. What’s he gonna do roll in concrete floors?
So many people are taking BJJ that i already expect a takedown. Which means im going to strike to knock out and evade.
Other details to add that cannot be done in BJJ sport, you can’t bite, headbutt, etc. Just one headbutt can finish your enemy and it’s detrimental.
Do JJJ and boxing. You will be fine bro
So if I'm just starting wanting to learn which one should I start with
IMHO, Some form of “Gracie Jiu-Jitsu,” of which Kama Jiu-Jitsu is one of.
I started Martial Arts as a whole well before I was aware that such a large online martial arts community existed, and I honestly hate the online community. Like why try and turn a martial art into something that it isn't? Whatever you practice and study doesn't need to be perfect to have value. I respect BJJ in that the skill ceiling for lack of better word is extremely high. And it's probably the hardest black belt to achieve in all of martial arts. But in the end, I really only see it as a sport. I kinda see Judo the same way as well. And that's fine, nothing wrong with that. But the problem is some thinking these martial arts are unbeatable in any scenario. I think when you apply BJJ, or Judo, or any other martial art that came from the umbrella of JJJ to self-defense and real world scenarios, it all sort of just becomes JJJ again. If someone is attacking me and we even end up in a grappling situation, I'm not going for BJJ submissions, or pulling guard. I'm throwing knees, elbows, throwing them onto concrete(most likely), and disengaging and creating distance. But remember, JJJ isn't just one singular thing, it's a very broad term.
I trained at a dojo that I will admit is far from "traditional". But we trained at combat speed plenty, enough to feel like you were being attacked and enough to feel when you got hit. In the end, it's all about what your goals are with a martial art. Do you want to compete, BJJ or Judo are the obvious choices. But if you just want to know how to fight, do MMA or find a school like mine that didn't dogmatically follow any style.
Japanese jujutsu is a wild card... Some schools are complete bullshit... Some others compete in full contact tournaments that include striking and grappling and looks like amateur mma with a gi... And then the big majority is somewhere in between those two extremes
Solid Snake uses Japanese jujutsu. Real combat art
Question about the Kama Belt System. When you have a visitor or new student, you normally make them wear a white belt or a white belt with a colored bar. Does this rule also apply to other high level and famous Jiujitsu practitioners such as if Gordon Ryan or Andre Galvão were to walk in to your gym and attend a class? What if Eddie Bravo walks in and wants to try a Gi class? Would he be allowed to wear his black belt since his lineage is Rickson Gracie - Jean Jacques Machado - Eddie Bravo? Thanks!
We’ll let you know if/when that happens.
@@KamaJiuJitsu Just a hypothetical scenario of course but I am curious as to what you would do in that situation 😅😅😅
I’ve not given it a second thought. Come to think of it, if it ever does happen, I’ll likely forget i thought about it in the first place. Just sayin.
The machados are carlos gracie jnr black belts nor rickson
Baron usted tiene la razon ,el jiujitsu japones sebasa mucho en tecnicas de katas llevadas a la auto defenza ,lo digo porque entrenė jiu jitsu japones por mas de nueve años en la morita riu de cuba ,y me di cuenta de la falta de randory y del estudio del mismo como en gracie jiujitsu , creo que para quien ase gracie jiujitsu el jiujitsu tradicional japones por decirlo de alguna manera ,puede ser beneficioso ,por la sencilla razon que es beneficioso aprender mas tipos de palancas y fundamentalmente en las pisicion de pie y te puede servir como complemento para el jiujitsu gracie ,ahora tenemos que tener en cuenta que hay muchos estilos de jiujitsu ,tienen semejanzas pero las formas de trabajos son diferentes
I am a judo player. I have met Sakura Kan jj in nz. They tended to be unimpressed with bjj.🥝🇳🇿🥋
JJJ has some good solid techniques but it's hard to find a dojo that will filter out the glitter just give you the stuff that works. There's a lot of Aikido stuff and nonsense like that involved. I have met a good JJJ instructor but he was trained in several styles and had an open mind. I think there's a lot of JJJ dojos out there teaching crap.
People will call what they do "Japanese Jiu-Jitsu" or "Japanese Jujutsu" when their curriculum traces back to the Kodokan.
I.e. at some point they started out with the Judo curriculum of the past then branched off into their own thing with organizations separate from the Kodokan. They usually lean into self defense based marketing.
This is my opinion but based off what I've seen the standard of what's being taught and practiced seems lower than what you get with the average Judo or BJJ school at these places.
Legitimate pre Judo Jujustu will have a specific style names attached to the school, so for example "Kito Ryu" or "Fusen Ryu" as opposed to just "Japanese Jiu-Jitsu" or something like that.
And for a very broad timeline of everything leading up to BJJ it goes like this
Japanese create and start Koryu Jujustu dojos -> Kano learns from several and merges the curriculums into Judo -> Judoka go to Brazil and end up using the term "Jiu-Jitsu" to describe what they're teaching to locals
Josh Simon's bjj website has really good articles breaking down the timeline once the Japanese end up in Brazil.
I hope this history dump is useful for someone!
I study both.
I see you learned Relson JJ and then form Rickson JJ, could you compare them? of course they are pretty much the same but share with us if you have seen any difference and if you have a favorite style between them
They’re both good. But GM RICKSON’s interpretation is on a different level, altogether, IMHO, that is.
Most black belts in JJJ get subbed by most blue belts in BJJ very very easily. Just my opinion and observations based on what i’ve see on the mats.
Of course they do because most do no sparring at all.
Sports Japanese ju jutsu is just mma. And Japanese ju jutsu is very useful if you remove the fancy moves and the stuff realeting to akido. The traditional ju jutsu has ryus today ju jutsu is just old judo and mix of karate.
Hughes difference
Jjj is great but has a lot of quality control issues that you don't see in bjj. Just research and find a good club. My club is mostly blackbelts, but the students have all bin training for over 10 years. I'm the most junior at 5th kyu after 5 years. It has a massive syllabus and takes on average 10 years to get a blackbelt. I would compare a jjj black belt to a bjj purple belt on the ground. I have tapped a purple belt only cause I had a blue belt in judo beforehand. That's not every time, but it's possible for me. Bjj is much better for fitness, no question. Stand-up jjj has the edge but fewer options on the ground. Jjj is better against multiple opponents cause we do train for that, and maintaining your distance is our key.
Good question. For me traditional is self-defense and “non-traditional” would be more of the competitive. Both are rewarding. I prefer the self-defense side myself.
But usually the sport side of any martial are more grueling workouts..me personally with sport bjj, and sport judo
Not here. I don’t know about other places. Our evening and Saturday morning classes are 2 hrs straight. The daytime classes are scheduled for an hour, but go longer if time permits.
@@KamaJiuJitsu ok...its probably because I'm looking at sparring, randori, and ne waza more of a sportive workout routine..where I'm envisioning self defense training similar to like Aikido training..where someone grab your wrist and you do these prearraign set of techniques to counter that move..which isn't very demanding on the body as far as cardio, strength and endurance conditioning
@@jonlong5541 not like Aikido. The self-defense classes usually start with rigorous 10-15 minute warm-up (running, shuffle in base, bear crawl, clinch drills, push/pull drill, etc) then about 45 minutes of lesson/drill, and 60 minutes of sparring. Granted the durations can vary and some classes are more intense
@@thelikebutton6830 I took aikido for 2yrs way bac like in 1999 as I am 45yrs old now..we never sparred though that would be interesting to see it done in aikido..I jus remember the workouts weren't intense..I've seen vid of Steven Segal and the Aikido training we were doing was way softer than that..ultimately that's why I quit cause I also do martial arts for the intense work well especially when I was younger
Triditional Kodekon Jujitsu Professor Bob Stiens. Fought PRIDE , and in UFC briefly. Beat Dan Severn by choke.
All I know is there is nut locks and eye gouging in JJJ so we won’t probable ever see it in the UFC😂
Judo BJJ and other systems were offshoots of Japanese jiu-jitsu.
BJJ is a joke and you would never use it in combat butt scooting all over the battlefield.
Gracie and BJJ and Judo and Aikido and a whole load of weapons forms come from JU Jitsu. Think Samurai-no rules, no banned techniques(nothing is banned because it was for the battlefield). Original throws were meant to land enemy on their head/neck,spinal locks,, smashed and inverted joints neck locks. Thats the ancient form,obviously it's been modified to practice in modern times. Lots of different schools exist and some try a competition style but it has so many rules for safety that it loses the essence .IT'S NOT BETTER(all the MMA guys will now be ranting because they can't get their heads around DIFFERENT not being an attack on BJJ etc}. Because we don't compete we never really get a full pressure test but thats for obvious reasons. Why practice it then? because we want to and aren't competitive
Can barely hear you
Brazilian jiu-jitsu its another form of the 2000 year old art
Another cocky bjj guy that thinks he's unbeatable 😂😂😂
1:55 😆
Man yall gotta address volume on yall videos. Turn it up! Love the content but I finally had to say something. Please just turn it up
Funny you say that. For some videos, what you say is true, but it’s due to my lack of adequate mics when recording. In this recording, i played it across three of my devices, and it gets loud. I used the DJI mic for that one, which has always been a good mic. I’ve always found that when i use the phone’s internal mic without my headphones or outside, the sound is really bad. I’m really not sure. I THINK it’s sometimes the device we listen to the video out of. For instance, i found out that the iPhone has a setting under Sounds and Haptics that actively monitors sound output from headphones to prevent it being too loud. I switched that feature off and all seems good.
C'mon dude, as Gracie JJ practitioner you should know the system was derived from Japanese JJ. Just read their website.
Yeah, I’m stupid and I didn’t already know that. Maybe one of these days, I’ll get it straight.
@@KamaJiuJitsu Lol...I agree with your statement.
Blue Belt in both. I came from Karate as a pretty decent striker and regressed after 2 years of JJJ. I had also done Aikido for a year. Now been doing Gracie JJ FOR 5 years plus MMA and wish I’d avoided everything else(apart from Karate) and done Gracie JJ/BJJ.
The issue: JJJ curriculum is so wide and very little sparring. I certainly learnt some interesting stuff but there wasn’t enough connection between concepts and techniques and far too much focus on obsolete traditional weapons. Also lots of static style throwing and self defence drills. After 2 years I had in no way improved to the level as a fighter than I had in BJJ or Karate in the same amount of time(my Karate school was old school with huge emphasis on sparring).
I would also add that when I sparred Brown and Black belts in JJJ, the level just wasn’t there. A lot of chat in class and theory which is an immediate red light for me these days.
wow so your a blue belt in japanse jiu jitsu, that is great to hear!
I practise BJJ but i want to take up japanse jiu jitsu because of the self elements and it has no rules like judo is these days.
I think GJJ is abit better because there is maybe abit more pressure testing then JJJ school but where i live in Europe GJJ is almost impossible to find.
What would you advise to me?
@@dylan_krishna_777 I think if you find a Judo school that has a more traditional curriculum you might be doing ok in hat regard. In many ways Gracie Jiu Jitsu and Judo have a lot of the JJJ stuff in their curriculums, they simply don’t focus on them. The JJJ I studied was very focussed on weapons also…honestly I found it too broad, but essentially you could piece it together by studying a variety of other arts. That said I am far from an expert so I am speaking from my experiences.
@@Patrick-sh9tt Most judo school are based on the rules of ijf and that are alot of things you canot do in judo because of that. i thought about hapkido but it seems more like aikido with kicks and i dont like that.
I think JJJ would be benefit my BJJ because they are very close to eachother and it doesn't have much rules .
Let me guess... the Head Instructor at the Judo club... hayward nishioka?
Lol, yep.
@@KamaJiuJitsu Ok...it's not just happenstance that I know about that and who it was. You know why he is that way, right?
Why who is what way?
If you learn Bjj,you already know at least the basics of Japanese jj.
I feel like BJJ is japanese jiu-jitsu the core difference is that BJJ is more aggressive with an emphasis on attack where as traditional japanese jiu-jitsu is based on defense and reaction. BJJ is aggressive and actionable vs japanese jiu-jitsu which is defense and reactionary. So to me BJJ is still japanese jiu-jitsu but more aggressive and offensive with an emphasis towards attack coupled with defense.
Not true at all,bjj is defense first,survive only.The difference is that bjj is based on sparring and real full force attacks jap jitsu is all kata.
You just prefer bjj or whatever you wanna call it. Which basically is an old style of judo that isn’t taught anywhere outside of Japan because of the rule change in tournaments. You never gave judo or Japanese Jujitsu a chance really. You did bjj before you entered both schools you just spoke of. You like the way bjj is taught. Go over a technique then spar a bit, play it safe on the ground. I know for a fact that the judo coach your speaking of didn’t look down on you, you got injured and never returned, after only being there for a brief time. The YMCA you visited was most likely teaching Danzan Ryu Ju-Jitsu. Which is a formal style taught so that the students can become instructors. It’s very formal and is not taught for competition but yet as an art. Japanese Jujitsu is all jujitsu. Now a days it’s just broken up into pieces and taught separately. I hope you are doing well buddy. Good luck with the training and your schools. Congrats 😎
I WANTED to do judo, and I’ve always loved it as an art. I first did judo as a kid (age 6-8), again in ‘92, and again in ‘07-‘08. I still played with it some from ‘18-‘20 when Sensei Dean Salehyan was running our judo program. I even had my daughter compete in it for a year.
As far as daily life goes over the last 34 years, GJJ has been “it” for me.
@@KamaJiuJitsu right…..everyone has a preference. GJJ is trendy and cool.
Maybe trendy now. No one knew what it was when I started.
@@KamaJiuJitsu it’s been trendy since the 90’s. In a “real” fight it’s been the only thing that works according to Joe Rogan since then. Supposedly anyway. Pulling guard is where it’s at.
Pulling guard is good if you wanna get stomped or punched in the face. But it often works in tournaments…
So if sport BJJ calls Gracie JJ their traditional then Gracie JJ calls Judo their traditional and Judo calls Japanese JJ their traditional?
Japanese Jujitsu>Judo>(Sambo) & Gracie JJ>Sport BJJ.
In Japan Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is often just called Jiu Jitsu. Even in Japan the distinction that existed is dissolving. 20 years ago you'd hear BJJ or GJJ more often, but nowadays BJJ in Japan is just Jiu Jitsu and I don't see much of an effort or care to separate the two. I wonder if it's a nefarious way of reclaiming BJJ and its innovations for Japan, or if it's just the natural progression of things. It's not like Japanese BJJ instructors don't know the history or shy away from it, it just seems they're removing the walls between ancient times and the old brazilian masters, so to say.
There are many "Japanese" jujutsu schools that are not Japanese. Western people often create their art with judo, karatae, kickboxing and/or other martial arts combined with Aikido and Koryu Japanese jujutsu, thus creating a punching, kicking and grappling hybrid arts. They market them as "japanese" jujutsu but are really european or American style of jujutsu. Danzan Ryu, JJIF Sport Jujutsu/German Jujutsu, ISJA Sport Jujutsu (American), are some examples.
True japanese jujutsu resembles Aikido more than anything else.
That would depend on what Ryu style you are talking about. Oss
@@michelleruss1 Japanese jujutsu all look more similar to aikido. Western jujutsu styles like German jujutsu look like judo + karate + aikido and/or kickboxing
@@alter5057 You are stuck on this for some reason. Aikido comes from jujutsu and within jujutsu, they have different Ryu styles just as karate has different styles, some emphasize throws more than others and some kote gaeshi and some have more kicks and strikes. Different Ryus my friend. But you are correct about the more modern today styles incorporating techniques from other arts into their systems if it works. that is the way of jujutsu because its an offensive war system and just as modern soldiers progress and evolve so should jujutsu. Yes, there are some schools or Dojo that might not have true lineage but mine does. Never good to be solidly locked in the past but always respect it, and must also move forward. that is the Bushido way. Oss
@@michelleruss1 No, YOU are misunderstanding if you do not follow what I am saying.
As for japan's jujutsu, they mostly consist of throws, locks (especially from standing), hand strikes and kicks. They, for the most part, do not have the newaza you see in judo. Their strikes are also practiced in kata. They lack randori (sparring) and even if they DO spar, like Kito Ryu, they do not roll but rather look like aikido sparring. Throws, and standing locks like armbar takedowns.
As for western jujutsu, they have newaza + throws, locks, kicks and hand strikes. JJIF (German jujutsu) is a good example. They fully utilize both striking and grappling in sparring.
@@alter5057 It's a free country. I enjoy your opinion and hope you flourish and grow within the arts. Thank you for sharing your opinion. Domo Arigato.
Japanese Jiu-Jitsu is a traditional Asian martial art and has a lot of the same problems that you have with other traditional Asian martial arts.
Why are you even here talking? Ffs? Either so or fuckin don't.
Japanese JJ can't do in real life as do technics properly will cause damage, BJJ go to ground and cuddle, real Japanese JJ do not go to ground, you obviously didn't train with a real Japanese JJ
I did once in 1992 after I moved to SoCal.
Once.
Oh c'mon man! Why does everything have to be one way. To not acknowledge the effectiveness of BJJ is ludicrous. Other styles are effective as well. I also don't want to hear the tripe about the goal is to finish fights standing up. As a person that has (unfortunately) seen and been in many fights outside the ring I can say, without a doubt, that if a fight isn't finished in the first couple punches it ALWAYS goes to the ground. So that's to say, most fights go to the ground. Concrete, mud, a river of glass...people don't care....they start grappling.
Can barely hear you