great points and great open thinking. friendly reminder to all Accuracy always WINS ! Think deep on that statement . Good content BM keep folks thinking and talking and in the end learning.
I think the real problem is that people need to remember bow hunting is not a TAC/3D event, and live animals duck and move sometimes. No setup is fast enough to truly minimize and beat the reaction time of an animal. The only way to do it and increase our accuracy percentage on live animals is to physically close the distance. Maybe we all should have the discipline to wait for closer shots.
I see alot of people disagreeing, but the fact of the matter is is that it your hunt, your set up, so you do what ever the f*ck you want to. If they don't like it then we'll f*ck'em. If it's legal in your state then I don't give a shyt what you use. Everyone entitled to their own opinions and everyone's is going to be different. If they can't accept this then their just flat out dumb. I've seen animals taken from both, and honestly more bad shots that hit back have a lower recovery rate period
Unfortunately in the heat of the moment this scenario of a less than perfect happen happens regularly. It begs to question whether archery is ethical as a sport to begin with. Would you rather have a wounded animal that lives or one that takes 3 days to die? Either way you never find it.
I have to agree with you on this. I don't know for 100% from the footage whether it was a poorly executed shot or the angle was bad from beginning, but it sure looked like the latter.
This is not relevant to the conversation. Everyone knows that not every shot will be perfect. The conversation is about maximizing probability of success. Starting with proper shot placement is the captain obvious variable. So...thank you, Captian Obvious.
Those whitetail specials are insane. I’ve killed a pile of critters with them and they never go farther than 50 yards. Most die within sight. I went down the heavy arrow rabbit hole and I think finding that trajectory you are comfortable with is key. My sweet spot is 270-300fps and that gives me the pin gap that I’m comfortable with. This year I ended up with a 456 grain arrow shooting 300fps. Love the content keep it up!
I'll be sticking to fixed for elk this year, but I'm shooting 65#, 29" draw, 450 grains. Either Exodus or Trifecta 1-1/4" wide single bevel. I'll have a Sevr 1.75 or Grim Reaper Pro 1-3/8 for a follow-up shot if needed. For Georgia whitetails with same arrow setup I'm going to try the Deadmeat V2s this year. The Grim Reaper Pro did a number on a spike I shot 2 years ago, quartered away and buried in offside shoulder, but looked like a shotgun blast through the whole wound channel, and that was shooting 60# and a 46 yard shot.
100% Agree with more cutting surface shots over penetration. I've had arrows not pass all the way through and the damage that blades do while the animal is running is tremendous. I've also leaned towards lighter faster arrows for years now. I've had great luck with sevr and swhacker broadheads with a lighter arrow 440 to 480 grains. I'll continue to use this setup until I don't.
@@jaysonsulser6099 just remember that when people make money off you buying the product they're showboating that they are not always honest and choose what they show and tell you.
@@alexan_lynn👍🏽 I’ve done my research. Not my first rodeo. Archery is a deep dark rabbit hole i can’t get out of!😂😢 the ol slick trick standards will also be in the quiver!
No matter what you shoot , it’s all about the broadhead , in your case shooting a 70 lb bow your penatration is better than my 57 pound bow . It’s the broadhead that kills stuff not the arrow weight , if your arrow is going sideways at impact you lose penatration , I wish the argument was about razor sharp blades more than how heavy your arrow is ,, I’m shooting 500 grains , 150 grain ( razor sharp) magnus broad-head I feel this is best for me
@gordyduggan403 I agree man. I’ve gone from 420-630gr and I keep landing right at 500 out of an 80 lbs setup. I think the broadhead is definitely the deciding factor
Good video and rationalization. Appreciate the vulnerability that comes with admitting youre evolving and open to change. I happen to own a large bear camp and am also constantly gathering information and evolving. This past spring we lost numerous bears to 2 blade Iron Will single bevels. Other 2 blades as well but likely by coincidence Iron Will was the front runner for loss. Bears hit forward or high will likely not die anyways, but the bears hit back were not recovered due to lack of blood trails. Our experiences this year have definitely changed our opinion on broadhead choice. Thx for this!
Let’s say a whitetail body is about 16” wide, a scapula is ~4.5-5” wide - on the other side of the scapula is the chest cavity aka vitals. I would be absolutely gobsmacked if given your bow specs and checking off factors #1 and 2 using those IW heads running a 500g taw+ arrow and you didn’t breach bone at least enough to be lethal. All the animals you talked about where you didn’t recover them, the high hit on that doe, that Canada bear low and back, the other deer low that is all shot placement and falls on YOU, not your equipment. I suggest you study the anatomy of the animals you’re hunting in depth, get more disciplined on what shots you take, and practice more over changing your equipment. If you hit back even in the guts/liver and you’re smart about the track you’ll find that animal but guy you clearly hit muscle/non-vital soft tissue on those deer and the bear TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY
Brandon I respectfully disagree with the fact that you are blaming the equipment and not yourself for the shot placement errors on the animals that you’ve lost blows my mind
I think you’re misunderstanding to some extent. He knows he’s made some less than stellar shots. His fear is they’re still lethal, but not recovered. His thought is that if he’s not going to recover an animal he’d rather it still be alive than a slow prolonged death.
@@mackstrate6235 This shot on the bear was not only less than stellar. It was a total crap shot on a bear and it made zero sense of the hunter to make that shot at all. And with a mechanical it makes the shot even worse. I would not hesitate to take that shot on a deer or an elk with my setup, but that shot is way to far forward on a bear and at a really crap angle as well on a bear. His thought and for the one that made that shot, should rather be to take better shots instead of risky ones or practice much more and to avoid risking much suffering for the animal. This idea of using a mechanical that will penetrate little and fall out again if/when he takes crap shots to reduce/avoid the suffering of the animal is EXTREMELY flawed. Just do NOT take shots that will result in suffering for the animal and use a setup that will ensure a clean and fast kill when you take the shots you should take.
I 100% agree. He is the one that have made the bad call to take shots he should not have taken and his conclusion seems to be to continue to make those bad shots, but use something that will reduce the suffering of the animals when he makes those bad shots... I have a novel idea for him. How about NOT taking those bad shots he shouldn't take?
I bounce back and forth mech vs fixed, dropped many deer with Spitfires. Dropped an elk with a Spitfire. Last year shot Sevrds and only shot one deer… it was a good shot on a doe but not a great blood trail, found her two months later at maybe 125 yards. I have had consistent questionable results with two blade mechs, mostly all dead deer, mostly all mediocre blood trails. Same for a half dozen deer shot with Killzones. I don’t shoot more than one or two deer a year so keep thinking not enough data. .. But maybe three blade mech is the way to go, might also try the new Sevrds with bleeders. So all I have to add here is interested in others thoughts, have others had good blood trails with two blade mechs?
My question is what kind of entrance hole do you get with that over the top deployer? I have always thought the Mega Meat was better than the GR because you get a giant entrance hole.
I think you are correct with your theory. Been using SEVRs and switched to 540 grain Valkyrie fixed blade. Slugs/ft is a better measurement than Kinetic Energy. I may have to experiment with a heavy SEVR set up now.
Shot placement is everything. You can use every fixed blade or every mechanical on the market. Every shot and every scenario will be different. Some days the fixed will do better sometimes the mechanical will be better. Again it's shot placement. You said it yourself "when I hit the animal in the ribs " I had the best outcome.
Yeah, we get it. But, maybe you don't. Shot placement is NOT everything because animals move, weather happens, yardage miscalculations happen. Your statement makes it sound like he's just pulling back and shooting willy nilly. Are you suggesting he DOESN'T consider shot placement? If shot placement was "everything" then why not just go out there with a sharp field point and place it thru the heart every time? Brandon is suggesting for the times of unfortunate hits that the probability of killing an animal whilst hitting soft tissue may be higher with the mechs where as the same BH hitting bone may be more fortunate by NOT wounding the animal too terribly. It's all an easy fix though, right? Just stop missing. That's all...
@@OutdoorShellback I think you missed the point or I didn't explain myself correctly. I've been bowhunting for 40yrs now, never gun hunted in my life. This year I just killed my 1204 Whitetail. I'm involved with some culling programs. I've used every arrow and broadhead combo.you can think of. From ultra light to heavy. On Whitetail deer you can potentially have a "miss que " with any set up you have. Find the 1 you like best and go hunting. You're not hunting Buffalo. Shoot straight and expect the unexpected.
I used fixed for 25 years and went to mechanicals about 6 years ago. I had an issue where I took a shot with the fixed and the broadhead seemed to plane out in the wind causing a bad miss. The miss was so bad I thought my site got bumped and was off. Testing after the shot, my site was perfect. I mainly went to the mechanicals for better arrow flight. I have also been in the camp of a 450ish gain arrow that flies flatter is better than a really heavy arrow (+600) as it is easier to be off on your yardage of the shot than hitting bone consistently. Keep testing to see what works out best for you, for me it is approximately 450 grain arrow with a mechanical broadhead. Blood trails with a mechanical are just better and never had issues with penetration with a good shot.
I tried muzzys several years back and actually watched the arrow curve drastically twice! Second one hit the buck in the hams and I was like oh crap but to my surprise it ran only a few yards stood there then did a maybe 20 yard death run and fell over, clipped both arteries pure luck!
Though I may not totally agree I appreciate you making this video and sitting down to explain it. You do a great job explaining your point in an engaging way.
The current trend is to forget about the most common (by a mile) bad shot, which is a gut shot. I think admitting to gut shots is just less glamorous than hitting the bone right over the heart area. The area of the guts is just massive compared to the area of heavy bone, so geometric probabilities alone indicate guts are most likely to be hit accidentally. And you're more likely to hit guts because deer walk forward, which would put an arrow on a deer that takes a few steps in the guts. No matter the broadhead, the gut shot almost always eventually kills. But with mechanicals, it will be faster usually and with less suffering and chance of losing the animal. As soon as I saw folks going to these narrow cut, 2 blades for compound hunting, I knew they would be bad in the guts.
@@PoeOutdoors nah, your comment with zero context is the bs. This guy made the most intelligent comment here. Meanwhile, you’re going to tailor your entire setup on hitting the t bone of a deer that only makes up 3% of its anatomy.
@@PoeOutdoors It is obvious that when I wrote "heart area"....not your incorrect quote.....that I meant the heavy bones that people would tend to hit when they go for the vital V, heart, you know the drill. When you disagree with someone, it is best to address what anyone with a 100 IQ would know was their obvious intention (it is called steel manning....you should look it up and practice it). I obviously know that right over the heart is mostly ribs. I've ran into you at archerytalk, and I'm pretty sure I have you blocked there because of your argumentation style. What you are doing here is a sophistry trick. You look at a whole argument that goes against your beliefs and so you don't like it and are internally motivated to take it out, pick one thing that you can cast aspersion on, and then instead of totally addressing the whole thing...you say something like "this is all BS....I mean, just look at this one thing I found to point out! I could go on, but I feel it is unnecessary at this point"
@@progradepainting3755meanwhile his setup will handle the rest of the shots he'll make on deer. While you keep shooting your forked horns and everything else in the a$$ n guts at 70 yards like a 💩bag. Arizona at its best 🙌lol
@@dustinhoffman9843 look dude, this isn’t the place for you to project your fantasies about where you want your boyfriend to make his shot placement on you, ok?
Is it just me or is that a right twist single bevel on a left fletched arrow? If it was just put on the arrow for a prop in the video then I understand.
Hello archer brother !! You rarely shoot videos, I ask you to shoot more often, you are good at it!!!!! Greetings from Russia from Siberia from the shores of Bfikal!!!
I feel like your argument is: On a bad shot, a non kill shot, you would rather run an expandable because it would have a better chance of failing to cause more penetration and possibly give the animal a better chance at survival. My thought is: Every bad shot is going to give you such different results. I have a feeling that the failure rate and downsides to a mechanical on everyday shots would outweigh the rarer result of a bad shot like the bear you showed a video of. Or just go right down the middle and shoot a large fixed 3 blade.
I’d be curious to hear more of your opinions on front deploying vs rear deploying broadheads. I’ve always stayed away from front deploying because of the thought that the blades aren’t fully open until you have penetrated at least an inch into the animal. If you don’t get a pass through, you have only a small entry hole which would still result in minimal blood trail? Am I wrong on this?
Went down the heavy arrow single bevel rabbit hole as well ended up going back to a 3 blade setup then back to a small expandable with a good moderate weight moderate foc setup and everything I have hit with it has been recovered. I have talk to a lot of dog trackers in different states and one thing I have learned is when shooting at a big buck your better off back a few inches vs being forward a few inches. A buck cannot survive a gut shot, he's hurt he runs 100-150 yards and beds down and watches his back trail. By morning he's gone septic and if he's still alive he can't get up or move around very well. A gut shot often has a lot higher recovery then a shoulder shot if a dog is called out.
I'm switching back to the Sevr Hybrid this year. I'm still going to carry a few Kudu points, but my primary broadhead will be the Sevr. Lusk testing poves they are capable. The kills I've had with mechanicals have been easy to track and under 40yds.
Honestly I think people are just taking too far of shots, on deer especially. Until arrows break the sound barrier 40 is just too far. I don’t like mechanicals but it’s not their fault that guy took a bad shot. Every setup has its limitations, just know what yours are and make sure it flies straight
That’s clown talk. Come out to Arizona, where real bow hunters live. I just did a job for a man in his late 50’s who has a wall lined, with a lifetime of bull elk in the 350 plus range, and he took most of those elk beyond 60 yards with a 356 grain arrow, and an old school thunderhead. Anyone who is truly successful is just laughing at the dumb argument you guys pose. The biggest elk this guy killed was at 77 yards with the setup I just mentioned. And you can’t kill a whitetail at 29-30 yards with your ridiculously heavy arrow? Lol
@@progradepainting3755 my arrow is like 450. Your binary brain is fried. Just because I like fixed doesn’t mean I’m dead set on heavy. That old duffer showed you all his wins but what about his losses? I wasn’t talking about elk was I? Brandon just told a story of a doe moving, what about when it’s a buck that’s thicker and faster? Run along, you’re trying to argue with a ghost
@@bigz5262 yeah? And your autistic brain is seized up because you think somehow you can make bowhunting a 100% guaranteed kill every time, chasing your delusions that’s there’s this perfect way to do it. It doesn’t work that way. Bowhunting is imperfect by its very nature. It’s a primitive process. So yeah, everyone has missed. Yet, how many times do you think you can hunt 350 plus class bull elk on public land in a lifetime? For most people, that’s maybe 4-5 times, if they’re insanely dedicated and lucky. And yet, this guy has easily harvested 7 with a bow, probably more. And he’s killing an animal over twice the size of an eastern whitetail, with an arrow that weighs 100 grains less than yours, and still getting pass throughs! When do you wake up and say “damn, I must be missing something here?” You back east hunters are really the only ones complaining about your arrow weights, how much you hate mechanicals, and whining about pass throughs. None of you talk about the importance of things like, how well tuned your bow is, your sight access, your angle compensation, the quality of your range finder, precision on decline AND inclined shots, your arrow flight, and shot placement, none of the things that actually matter. My first pin starts at 30 yards here Arizona.
@@progradepainting3755 you’re so desperate to get words out you’re arguing with things I never said. I’m not shutting down, some people aren’t worth engaging with.
I’m glad you made this video because I’ve had some bad luck with my “Ashby setup.” Lost a doe due to no blood trail whatsoever on what appeared to be a great shot. Shot another and took 2 hours in the dark to track because again had barely any blood trail with 30 yard stretches of no blood at all. Deer rain about 120 yards over the crest of a ridge and zig zagged down the other side. Thought it was a bad shot, but after skinning it was a double lung with heart. This was with a 550 grain setup with Iron Will wides. Think I’m going to switch back, as well.
We’re all on our own journey in archery and bow hunting. And I appreciate you’re perspective Brandon and you taking the time to talk about your experience. Too many people are on here trying to argue and are quick to criticize your personal experience. Instead of just taking it for what it’s worth and adding it to their own mental database, or choosing not to because it doesn’t fit into their own personal archery puzzle. Anyways, good video and thanks for the info.
I myself am going to try some mechanicals as well this year, thinking dead meat/megameat or a sevr hybrid. Some of your points make sense but I don’t know if I agree with your point on the bear in the shoulder. I would think less penetration into the should will ultimately lead to deer getting wounded and dying somewhere rather than actually fully recovering
Brandon, sincere question here… why not get the best of both worlds with a huge fixed blade? Something like Tooth of the Arrow 4 blade XL? Total cut of 2-3/8” and built like a tank. The one drawback or challenge with something like that is tuning, and you’re clearly already committed to achieving perfect arrow flight with whatever head you shoot. Seems like a perfect fit for you
I shot my buck last yr with a grim reaper. I use them a lot. That buck was at 35 yards, I thought facing away, but he was actually facing more to. The arrow went in great and exited through the gut. I saw the gut hanging out the exit. He ran 70 yards, stopped, stood there not feeling well and eventually fell over. We tracked him in the dark and had almost NO blood. I feel if you accidentally hit a deer in the gut it is more likely to expire quicker than a smaller fixed blade. I use a 1 3/4” grim reaper because I’ve had the 2” blades break off in the ribs. Those blades are just so long they’re like twigs. My bow can shoot either broadheads accurately at 40yards. I’ve got both fixed and grim reaper but I like the grim reaper. I’m more worried about a gut shot than a shoulder shot.
I am basically on the same journey as well. Went heavy and fixed, had issues with trajectory and blood at 600 grains. Went down to a little over 500 for trajectory but still terrible blood. 4 deer total: double lung (mid), cut off top of heart, gut, double lungs (low). Maybe 1 tbsp of total blood for all four deer combined. Doesnt matter how dead the deer is, if you can’t find it, it makes no difference
@@PoeOutdoors I recovered all of them. But it took significantly longer than it should have considering the shot that was made. 3/4 were found via grid searching. My concern with what I have seen is, I’m going to kill a deer one day and not be able to find it because there is no blood on the ground.
fixed blade is not the cause of poor blood trails. Small cut heads are the problem, Im going to make an assumption that you went the 1-1/8 2 blade route. if you want a decent blood trail shoot at least a 1-1/4 diameter 3 blade, or bigger if its a 2 blade.
@@andrecancilla4901 that is a correct assumption. I could definitely go three blade or a two blade with bleeders. But I draw 72 and have 30.5” DL so I’m going a little bigger with a mech, given I have a little extra power behind my arrow. At the end of the day, regardless of the broadhead, I want a bigger hole so it doesn’t plug up and allows more blood to exit the body.
@@wvbowhunter1 For sure. Your reasoning is mostly why I've stayed away from mechanicals. 70 lbs with a sub 27 inch draw length. My bow is not pushing that hard and I know it. I did shoot a buck with a sevr 2 seasons ago that just poked through the offside on the meaty area of the shoulder so I consider that a win. I'll have some sevr in my quiver this season as well as qad exodus
I would like to see arrow companies make lighter gpi arrows and still be strong. For example a 250 spine arrow around 5-6 gpi with mfjj’s insert and collar. Taw without head be around 250gr with a solid 3 blade at 1.5 cut around 150-200 gr
I shoot 13/8 pro grim reaper and cause of injuries can only shoot mid 50 pounds with 360 grain arrow. Shot 3 deer last season arrow stayed in all three. Not one of them made it more than 20 yards with great blood. Happy hunting and God bless
This feels like planning to fail. I really like your take on stuff, I was just surprised by this take. Looking forward to your continued updates with more experiences! Out of curiosity, did you shoot the doe you spoke of from the ground, or a tree?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I switched from fixed broadheads to mechanicals because I had lost two deer. One being a nice buck. I switched to rage and was successful. It wasn’t till 2 years ago I went back to fixed. I had two rage broadheads open one in the bow and the other from the quiver. It was at that moment I didn’t want to leave things to chance so back to fixed. The 2 deer I lost were all shot placement issues. My point I guess is do what is right for you. Happy hunting!!
I agree you about the small cutting diameter broadheads and the lack of blood trails. I really like Simmons shark broadheads. They fly great, are easy to sharpen, and have a big cutting diameter.
I shot a 80lbs pa doe last yr with whitetail special it went in right behind front shoulder defected off rib and exited out hind quarter of the same side it entered i switched to beast the next hunt and 9 deer later have not had 1 deflection or non passthru since dont no the science behind it but something in the blades having tentation and being able to move ard bone is a huge benefit on deflection witch has been my biggest issue with most mechanicals
I like your take, I recommend the pro series 1 3/8" grim reaper. I would think it would be good for elk, which I will be using myself this year after seeing how it performed on whitetails. I love the tip on the pro series, really seems to help with penetration. for what it's worth. Good luck
Ive had too many not open. Thats my experience. I use 3 blade fixed now. Dont have blood trail problems. FOC for pass thru. But thats where im comfortable
“anecdotal”. BMac would say. We’ll figure it out for ourselves. each hunter/archer has their own shooting abilities, Hunting abilities and how they handle perceived pressure Which will influence their hunting set ups.
Ahhh factor #12, the most misunderstood of them all. Many people don't see beyond "heavy bone threshold...650g total arrow weight" which leads them to believe that as long as the arrow weighs 650g it'll always go through heavy bone OR that if you shoot less than 650g you won't be able to breach heavy bone. WRONG. What it DOES mean is that every style of broadhead that Dr. Ed Ashby tested showed an increased frequency of penetrating heavy bone when the arrow-mass was up around 650g total arrow weight • the heavy bone threshold is referring to the total arrow weight needed to consistently bust through (breach) heavy bone at, or very near 650 grain total arrow weight is what is considered to be the heavy bone threshold • arrow-mass above heavy bone threshold is listed at # 12 because it has little significance on soft tissue impact, however on heavy bone impact this factor moves to #3. why does it move up to #3? because when heavy bone is encountered your chance of breaching that bone enough to be lethal significantly increases when using an arrow system of 650 grains TAW. (total arrow weight) • The greater the arrow-mass the more efficient the bow itself becomes. Why? heavier arrows absorb more of the energy from the bow •an arrow system of at least 650g TAW increases the arrows odds of getting through heavy bone to ~95% • an arrow system that is under 650g TAW might get through heavy bone ~60-70% of the time
@@alexan_lynn where does any of this make a bit of difference on a deer, where the only bone you’d have to worry about is the t bone, which makes up 3% of the deers anatomy? You’re going to create an entire arrow system for 3% of a deer?
@@progradepainting3755congratulations on missing the ENTIRE point of everything lol. You really must be a liberal. Like shouldn't even be allowed to hunt, especially with a firearm. No wonder you paint for a living 😂
Many game farms in Zimbabwe and South Africa will not allow the use of mechanical broadheads on tougher &/or heavier boned game due to too many failures to deploy properly, penetrate deeply enough or break or a combination of these problems.
@@colinmitchell3213 technology has came a long ways as far as broadheads go. It will take the laws sometime to catch up. I am speaking from my experience breaking bones on large North American game. We don’t have Cape buffalo here. But I’ve broke femurs and shoulders on several elk with great success. But I’m also shooting a 84lb speed bow which definitely helps.
Last 3 years for elk I have in my quiver a couple mechanical heads and three fixed . My mechanicals are at lease a two inch cut or better just for the reason you pointed out I had not so good shots and still recovered the animals do to the wound channel was so big
Interesting perspective, I think you'd get support from John Dudley on your logic. He phrased his argument a little differently, as in why build your hunting arrow setup for a worst-case scenario that you might actually encounter less than 20% of the time?
I’ve been back and forth between mechanicals and fixed my self. Killed several whitetails with each over the years. One point I’d like to make though. If you hit a deer too far back, let’s say 100% guts, that deer is going to die. Regardless of what head is used a gutshot deer will more than likely be dead within 24 hours. From my experience and what I’ve seen from others, a gut shot deer will not go far. They will bed down and die right there within a few hours. As long as the deer isn’t pushed (that’s a big if) you can find the deer the next day. So hitting too far back is not the worse case, hitting big bone is. So IMO that’s a strong argument for fixed heads with the correct setup. If you miss too far forward with a quality fixed you have a better chance of better penetration. If you miss too far back, still a dead deer. Of course the huge advantage to big mechanicals is the blood trail. There’s no denying that.
@@it_is_finished no, a mechanical will absolutely kill a gut shot deer much faster than a fixed. You’re going to base your entire arrow set up and all the limiting factors of a heavy arrow and fixed head on a 3% chance of hitting the t bone? Not very good logic in my opinion. I’ll take the mechanical any day of the week.
@@progradepainting3755no it doesn't lol, and the point you missed again is with the fixed blade setup you up your odds in all scenarios. Lmao what an fn tard
With your Whitetail Special kills, do you feel like the broadhead has made up for a less than stellar hit on an animal; or were all of the kills text book shots?
One in a doe was high. The rest were good. High shot in the doe was still double lung but I credit the size of the cut of the broadhead to actually getting lung
I sincerely appreciate all the aspects you bring to the table on this one. I started traditional archery about 3 years ago and in that time I have seen so many deer killed in all of these scenarios with 45--50 lb bows. The absolute best hands down insane blood trails I've seen from 90% of those kills came from Simmons Shark broadheads
Been using 150 grain mechanicals for years now, almost always pass throughs, last year wondered why it didn’t until I went to gut him here the 150 grain Rage went through and destroyed the opposite upper leg bone on a well over 230 pound dressed buck. Never seen anything like it!
Very valuable insight, I’m a stico guy, but I’ve played around with two blade broadheads and completely agree with your ponderings. I like a good efficient multi blade fixed. But if I shot a compound, adorable and reliable, mechanical would probably be my choice. Another thing about multi blade mechanicals, one of the main issues is that sometimes the blades break so having extra blades is helpful.
Ohhh your going to take some heat for this lolol.... I'm with ya brother I been saying the same thing I'm at 500 gran with sevr and no problems... I'm interested to see where your thoughts go with it..
Cool video i have had great success wt Magnus stinger buzz cut broadheads wt bleeders. But also wt Rage hypodermic no collar. My mathews is tuned and i pull 78# 28.5 mods 430 grain Easton axis 5mm arrows. And get pass throughs. Just food for thought.
If an arrow doesn’t go all the way threw you will get a better blood trail because the arrow is keeping all the holes in line. The hole in the hide the hole threw the ribs and lungs.
Thanks Brandon, great arguments. I love the idea of not wounding an animal more than necessary if a bad shot happens. Appreciate your transparency and honesty about making content as well.
I'm constantly having this conversation in my head because I have a setup that shoots fixed blade broadheads really well. Like you, though, I've noticed that the blood trails aren't great. I literally had to find a deer by smell a couple years ago, but I use the fixed blades over and over. On the flip side, every deer I've shot with a mechanical (first rages and then Sevrs) has left an absolulte horror show of blood. The Rages were one and done, and I switched to Sevrs because I had a rage blade break off in a Buck (Still recovered the buck, but I don't like having to look for a razor in my meat). The Sevrs have been reusable with the occational blade swap and shoot really well. I bought some Grim Reaper whitetail specails and the one I was using for practice completely fell apart after only four shots into foam, so that head is going to be relegated to turkey duty (which I think it will be excellent for). I don't trust it's structural integrity on a deer rib, let alone anything harder. I really like the simplicity of the Sevrs an the way they pivot around bone. I think it puts them in contention as one of the best broadheads out there, as it sidesteps (literally) the "bone breaking" issue. I also think a low profile mechanical is just more likely to hit where you are aiming in the wild. They are more forgiving off the shot and less susceptible to environmental factors, so I too am thinking of switching back.
Good video, im a big fan of mechanical bh's, back 20 years ago I was using a coc 2 blade for a few years with some not so great results, I switched to a mech and wow. I even shot my first elk with one last fall, it worked amazing, it was a grim reaper pro series 1 3/8"
I use the grim reaper whitetail special solely based on it having 3 blades of more cutting surface than anything else in hopes that if I make a marginal shot, it would still provide a fatal result. So far, I am 6/6 on deer I’ve shot with it and recovered. I even made a horrible shot on a buck at the top of his back leg, the broadhead buried into his spine, cut a major artery, and I recovered him 160 yards later. Completely my fault, but the broadhead saved me.
I’m not trying to argue with anybody. I’m just sitting a fact he needs to take ownership for making bad shots and not blaming equipment. I know just like anybody else has lost an animal since I live in Alaska. I lost a 65 inch moose. I blame myself, not the equipment.
@@tycolee4306 this statement is played out. Of course bad shots happen, but a mechanical is more forgiving on a bad shot than a fixed is. This is bow hunting, bad shots happen. If you’re going to sit around punching yourself in the head over it happening, go pick up a rifle, or just don’t hunt.
@@brandonmcdonald6121 Just received the Sevr 1.5 hybrids last week. Sacrificed one for target shooting - I probably shot the Sevr hybrid 20 times during two different outings to confirm their accuracy vis a vis my field tips. Accuracy is indistinguishable from my field tips out to 50 yards. I have a tuned bow.
You hit the central point - the bow/arrow/shooter combination has to be tuned. A shooter cannot begin from any other point and expect optimal results. I shoot a fixed blade because I place a higher value on the maxim "that anything mechanical can fail" than I do "a better blood trail". Thank you for sharing your thought process and rationale for your choices. Good luck this fall.
Dangit, I've returned to archery after 13 years..... a lot has changed in that time. Especially with archery laws in oregon. I have been waffling forever over the fixed blades I like and going to mechanicals. And I'm open as I'm basically brand new again. This made me start thinking again... and season is a month and a half away.... thanks for that, honestly. Time to build my own opinion.
This will be my 18th year bow hunting and I've been down just about every rabbit hole there is with arrow set up and broadheads. You're planning for a failure.. I'm never ever going to plan for my arrow to bounce out if my shot is off a little. This seems completely silly to me. Might as well put a spork on the end of a shovel handle and go gigging. The BROADHEAD absolutely needs to be the strongest, most durable component of an arrow. Personally I use the Magnus Blackhornet Ser Razor, total arrow weight is 570gr (30" DL, 74lb DW) at 260fps. My goal is to crush everything I hit. Quartering to, away, broadside, up/down angle, doesn't matter. Aim for the exit hole and the dirt. Pass though every single time. I have chopped leg bones in half on the exit side and still put the arrow in the dirt and the broadhead is still in relatively good shape.
Everything in life is like this. You get more of one thing it takes away from another. Meet in the middle and it takes from both sides. The delicate balance. Uncle Iroh approved.
@@brandonmcdonald6121 lol I try. If I’m hunting from the ground, especially in the prairie states, spot and stalk, I like having a fixed blade on my bow. I had issues with blades getting caught in grass when I was nocked up, close and crawling. Additionally, shooting through light grass with an iron Will seems to not affect it. The SEVRs are there for long follow up shots, over 65 yards. Generally after an animal is hit, he will run out some distance and stop to look around. I try to immediately nock an arrow after the first shot in case a follow up is presented I can take it as soon as available. The mechanical is less affected by wind(which is always blowing) or perfect form at really long distances. I’ve made follow up shots at 115+ yards to make sure the animal is bleeding enough as well as hopefully hit enough to minimize suffering. From a tree stand for whitetail the play the reverse roll. Mechanical nicked up, and iron Will for recovery of animal. Thanks for the video Brandon.
Interesting take, I think the reason mechanicals get a bad rap sometimes is because exactly what you’re saying. They are on an untuned bow. A poor shot was made, and the animal wasn’t recovered… that being said I have lost animals on both. most recently with a 1,75 serv.
Great video of your experiences and point of view! Thank you . We missed ya buddy ! I had similar experience with single bevels no blood trail but then again when I did my job correctly the deer never moved either 🤔 interesting concepts
I dont get the idea that the same grain setup won't penetrate as far mechanical vs fixed... I think the problem is 26inch drawlengths shooting sub 280 fps and shooting low arrow weight. They make titanium mechanicals. I shot my last deer through both shoulders (completely broken bones both sides) with a mediocre nap spitfire. Total arrow weight 450g. But... I shoot 70lbs at 30.5 inches. Never lost a deer with a mech. Speed kills deer.
You're right about that. Which is why shorter draw length and lower speed benefits so well from heavier setups. Jump on a traditional archery site and the majority of those hunters are killing big heavy deer with 45--50 lb bows with full pass throughs, you'll also find that the fixed heads they're using are Simmons heads and they leave absolutely violent blood trails
I’ve used both fixed and mechanical broadheads. Now I use afflictor hybrid. Best of both worlds. Mechanical deflect at weird angles. Penetration is not good and the Broadhead is weak structurally. Fixed don’t have as big of wound capabilities. They are stronger and penetrate deeper, but can have bad arrow flight in different situations. I personally like a hybrid or fixed for whitetail and definitely elk. I comes down to making a good shot at the right angle. No excuses! I’ve had my fair share of mistakes and when I look back it comes down to bad decisions and rushing my shot when things go wrong.
I like your point's but there's no guarantee of hitting an animal in the shoulder blade that mechanical still will not penetrate just enough to where it dies slowly also. I've had great results mechanicals and very poor results as well of them bending and not fully deploying just from hitting a rib dead center.
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great points and great open thinking. friendly reminder to all Accuracy always WINS ! Think deep on that statement . Good content BM keep folks thinking and talking and in the end learning.
i personally im not a fan of the style of mechanical that has to fold back over itself. for several reasons
@@T-boneoutdoors always good to hear the legendary T-Bones 2 cents…
@@T-boneoutdoors your a legand brother. Much respect
I think the real problem is that people need to remember bow hunting is not a TAC/3D event, and live animals duck and move sometimes. No setup is fast enough to truly minimize and beat the reaction time of an animal. The only way to do it and increase our accuracy percentage on live animals is to physically close the distance. Maybe we all should have the discipline to wait for closer shots.
@@T-boneoutdoors hey Sir.. any chance we could hear what your top 3 mechanical BH choices would be?
I see alot of people disagreeing, but the fact of the matter is is that it your hunt, your set up, so you do what ever the f*ck you want to. If they don't like it then we'll f*ck'em.
If it's legal in your state then I don't give a shyt what you use. Everyone entitled to their own opinions and everyone's is going to be different. If they can't accept this then their just flat out dumb. I've seen animals taken from both, and honestly more bad shots that hit back have a lower recovery rate period
@@tylersweeney22 not when you have a 2” cut from a mech head.
@@progradepainting3755 so you just figure as long as you hit the deer somewhere you're good huh lol. You're a poster child for the mentally impaired
@tylersweeney22 Sure seems like you are the one that gives a f*ck lol
1:57 nailed it 100% on the tuned properly stuff, no matter what broadhead someone is shooting.
Is it the broadheads fault...? Or the fact the hunter shot that bear in the NECK on a low odds shot?
Unfortunately in the heat of the moment this scenario of a less than perfect happen happens regularly. It begs to question whether archery is ethical as a sport to begin with. Would you rather have a wounded animal that lives or one that takes 3 days to die? Either way you never find it.
I have to agree with you on this. I don't know for 100% from the footage whether it was a poorly executed shot or the angle was bad from beginning, but it sure looked like the latter.
This is not relevant to the conversation. Everyone knows that not every shot will be perfect. The conversation is about maximizing probability of success. Starting with proper shot placement is the captain obvious variable. So...thank you, Captian Obvious.
@@mackstrate6235 The logical end of this argument is that hunting in general is unethical. It isn't.
Cry me a river…
Those whitetail specials are insane. I’ve killed a pile of critters with them and they never go farther than 50 yards. Most die within sight. I went down the heavy arrow rabbit hole and I think finding that trajectory you are comfortable with is key. My sweet spot is 270-300fps and that gives me the pin gap that I’m comfortable with. This year I ended up with a 456 grain arrow shooting 300fps. Love the content keep it up!
The broadhead is what does all the damage. Everything else is just the delivery system. Choose accordingly.
I'll be sticking to fixed for elk this year, but I'm shooting 65#, 29" draw, 450 grains. Either Exodus or Trifecta 1-1/4" wide single bevel. I'll have a Sevr 1.75 or Grim Reaper Pro 1-3/8 for a follow-up shot if needed. For Georgia whitetails with same arrow setup I'm going to try the Deadmeat V2s this year. The Grim Reaper Pro did a number on a spike I shot 2 years ago, quartered away and buried in offside shoulder, but looked like a shotgun blast through the whole wound channel, and that was shooting 60# and a 46 yard shot.
100% Agree with more cutting surface shots over penetration. I've had arrows not pass all the way through and the damage that blades do while the animal is running is tremendous. I've also leaned towards lighter faster arrows for years now. I've had great luck with sevr and swhacker broadheads with a lighter arrow 440 to 480 grains. I'll continue to use this setup until I don't.
I’m going beast broadheads this year for elk and deer !
But I’m also running a relatively heavy arrow and shooting #75 draw
doing the same, the water buffalo vid that bowmar posted convinced me they will be fine on an elk!
@@jaysonsulser6099 just remember that when people make money off you buying the product they're showboating that they are not always honest and choose what they show and tell you.
@@alexan_lynn👍🏽 I’ve done my research. Not my first rodeo. Archery is a deep dark rabbit hole i can’t get out of!😂😢 the ol slick trick standards will also be in the quiver!
Love my Grim Reapers. Good video bro !
No matter what you shoot , it’s all about the broadhead , in your case shooting a 70 lb bow your penatration is better than my 57 pound bow . It’s the broadhead that kills stuff not the arrow weight , if your arrow is going sideways at impact you lose penatration , I wish the argument was about razor sharp blades more than how heavy your arrow is ,, I’m shooting 500 grains , 150 grain ( razor sharp) magnus broad-head I feel this is best for me
I think people like talking about weight because it doesn’t take any effort to change. Broadhead tuning and sharpening take time
@gordyduggan403 I agree man. I’ve gone from 420-630gr and I keep landing right at 500 out of an 80 lbs setup. I think the broadhead is definitely the deciding factor
I’ve gone down the same heavy arrow rabbit hole and ended up with the same thought process.
I’m planning on using Sevrs this year. Likely adding some of those new hybrids!
The new hybrids look legit
I carry 3 different broad heads in my quiver 4 fixed and 2 mechanical so I can choose what head is going to be best in any specific situation.
Good video and rationalization. Appreciate the vulnerability that comes with admitting youre evolving and open to change.
I happen to own a large bear camp and am also constantly gathering information and evolving. This past spring we lost numerous bears to 2 blade Iron Will single bevels. Other 2 blades as well but likely by coincidence Iron Will was the front runner for loss.
Bears hit forward or high will likely not die anyways, but the bears hit back were not recovered due to lack of blood trails. Our experiences this year have definitely changed our opinion on broadhead choice.
Thx for this!
They won't die with a mechanical either....
@@michaelficarro2591the ones hit back did, they just couldn’t find them due to lack of blood.
If tracking dogs are legal in your state to aide with recovery of game animals I would get you some hounds trained
Let’s say a whitetail body is about 16” wide, a scapula is ~4.5-5” wide - on the other side of the scapula is the chest cavity aka vitals. I would be absolutely gobsmacked if given your bow specs and checking off factors #1 and 2 using those IW heads running a 500g taw+ arrow and you didn’t breach bone at least enough to be lethal. All the animals you talked about where you didn’t recover them, the high hit on that doe, that Canada bear low and back, the other deer low that is all shot placement and falls on YOU, not your equipment. I suggest you study the anatomy of the animals you’re hunting in depth, get more disciplined on what shots you take, and practice more over changing your equipment. If you hit back even in the guts/liver and you’re smart about the track you’ll find that animal but guy you clearly hit muscle/non-vital soft tissue on those deer and the bear TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY
Brandon I respectfully disagree with the fact that you are blaming the equipment and not yourself for the shot placement errors on the animals that you’ve lost blows my mind
I think you’re misunderstanding to some extent. He knows he’s made some less than stellar shots. His fear is they’re still lethal, but not recovered. His thought is that if he’s not going to recover an animal he’d rather it still be alive than a slow prolonged death.
Bad shots can happen. I ve made marginal shots that should have died but didn't. I want the most damage in any shot
@@mackstrate6235
This shot on the bear was not only less than stellar.
It was a total crap shot on a bear and it made zero sense of the hunter to make that shot at all.
And with a mechanical it makes the shot even worse.
I would not hesitate to take that shot on a deer or an elk with my setup, but that shot is way to far forward on a bear and at a really crap angle as well on a bear.
His thought and for the one that made that shot, should rather be to take better shots instead of risky ones or practice much more and to avoid risking much suffering for the animal.
This idea of using a mechanical that will penetrate little and fall out again if/when he takes crap shots to reduce/avoid the suffering of the animal is EXTREMELY flawed.
Just do NOT take shots that will result in suffering for the animal and use a setup that will ensure a clean and fast kill when you take the shots you should take.
I 100% agree.
He is the one that have made the bad call to take shots he should not have taken and his conclusion seems to be to continue to make those bad shots, but use something that will reduce the suffering of the animals when he makes those bad shots...
I have a novel idea for him.
How about NOT taking those bad shots he shouldn't take?
@@The_Judge300 I had a brain fart on a 12 yard broadside. Doesn't have to be risky. Anyone that says they've never made a bad shot is a liar
I bounce back and forth mech vs fixed, dropped many deer with Spitfires. Dropped an elk with a Spitfire. Last year shot Sevrds and only shot one deer… it was a good shot on a doe but not a great blood trail, found her two months later at maybe 125 yards. I have had consistent questionable results with two blade mechs, mostly all dead deer, mostly all mediocre blood trails. Same for a half dozen deer shot with Killzones. I don’t shoot more than one or two deer a year so keep thinking not enough data. .. But maybe three blade mech is the way to go, might also try the new Sevrds with bleeders. So all I have to add here is interested in others thoughts, have others had good blood trails with two blade mechs?
My question is what kind of entrance hole do you get with that over the top deployer? I have always thought the Mega Meat was better than the GR because you get a giant entrance hole.
I think you are correct with your theory. Been using SEVRs and switched to 540 grain Valkyrie fixed blade. Slugs/ft is a better measurement than Kinetic Energy.
I may have to experiment with a heavy SEVR set up now.
SEVR is a pretty good design but they are extremely dull out of the pack IMO
Shot placement is everything. You can use every fixed blade or every mechanical on the market. Every shot and every scenario will be different. Some days the fixed will do better sometimes the mechanical will be better. Again it's shot placement. You said it yourself "when I hit the animal in the ribs " I had the best outcome.
Yeah, we get it. But, maybe you don't. Shot placement is NOT everything because animals move, weather happens, yardage miscalculations happen. Your statement makes it sound like he's just pulling back and shooting willy nilly. Are you suggesting he DOESN'T consider shot placement? If shot placement was "everything" then why not just go out there with a sharp field point and place it thru the heart every time? Brandon is suggesting for the times of unfortunate hits that the probability of killing an animal whilst hitting soft tissue may be higher with the mechs where as the same BH hitting bone may be more fortunate by NOT wounding the animal too terribly.
It's all an easy fix though, right? Just stop missing. That's all...
@@OutdoorShellback I think you missed the point or I didn't explain myself correctly. I've been bowhunting for 40yrs now, never gun hunted in my life. This year I just killed my 1204 Whitetail. I'm involved with some culling programs. I've used every arrow and broadhead combo.you can think of. From ultra light to heavy. On Whitetail deer you can potentially have a "miss que " with any set up you have. Find the 1 you like best and go hunting. You're not hunting Buffalo. Shoot straight and expect the unexpected.
I would not take the 40 yard shot if the animal moving is an issue. Bow hunting is not a guessing game. Did mfjj pay you to say this?
I used fixed for 25 years and went to mechanicals about 6 years ago. I had an issue where I took a shot with the fixed and the broadhead seemed to plane out in the wind causing a bad miss. The miss was so bad I thought my site got bumped and was off. Testing after the shot, my site was perfect. I mainly went to the mechanicals for better arrow flight. I have also been in the camp of a 450ish gain arrow that flies flatter is better than a really heavy arrow (+600) as it is easier to be off on your yardage of the shot than hitting bone consistently. Keep testing to see what works out best for you, for me it is approximately 450 grain arrow with a mechanical broadhead. Blood trails with a mechanical are just better and never had issues with penetration with a good shot.
I tried muzzys several years back and actually watched the arrow curve drastically twice! Second one hit the buck in the hams and I was like oh crap but to my surprise it ran only a few yards stood there then did a maybe 20 yard death run and fell over, clipped both arteries pure luck!
Though I may not totally agree I appreciate you making this video and sitting down to explain it. You do a great job explaining your point in an engaging way.
Appreciate it. I’ll do better going in depth on Thursday
@@brandonmcdonald6121 seconded.
So can i have all your fixed blades?
Curious to see your results in your upcoming hunts
Textbook looking for justification.
Interesting video. I’m in the middle of testing new broadheads myself, and not sure what I’m going to use for my elk hunt this year 🤷🏻♂️
QAD Exodus
@@bowdude33 need to check those out, heard nothing but good things!
The current trend is to forget about the most common (by a mile) bad shot, which is a gut shot. I think admitting to gut shots is just less glamorous than hitting the bone right over the heart area. The area of the guts is just massive compared to the area of heavy bone, so geometric probabilities alone indicate guts are most likely to be hit accidentally. And you're more likely to hit guts because deer walk forward, which would put an arrow on a deer that takes a few steps in the guts.
No matter the broadhead, the gut shot almost always eventually kills. But with mechanicals, it will be faster usually and with less suffering and chance of losing the animal. As soon as I saw folks going to these narrow cut, 2 blades for compound hunting, I knew they would be bad in the guts.
There is so much BS in this comment I’m not sure where to begin. I guess we could start by learning which bone is right over the heart.
@@PoeOutdoors nah, your comment with zero context is the bs. This guy made the most intelligent comment here. Meanwhile, you’re going to tailor your entire setup on hitting the t bone of a deer that only makes up 3% of its anatomy.
@@PoeOutdoors It is obvious that when I wrote "heart area"....not your incorrect quote.....that I meant the heavy bones that people would tend to hit when they go for the vital V, heart, you know the drill. When you disagree with someone, it is best to address what anyone with a 100 IQ would know was their obvious intention (it is called steel manning....you should look it up and practice it). I obviously know that right over the heart is mostly ribs. I've ran into you at archerytalk, and I'm pretty sure I have you blocked there because of your argumentation style. What you are doing here is a sophistry trick. You look at a whole argument that goes against your beliefs and so you don't like it and are internally motivated to take it out, pick one thing that you can cast aspersion on, and then instead of totally addressing the whole thing...you say something like "this is all BS....I mean, just look at this one thing I found to point out! I could go on, but I feel it is unnecessary at this point"
@@progradepainting3755meanwhile his setup will handle the rest of the shots he'll make on deer. While you keep shooting your forked horns and everything else in the a$$ n guts at 70 yards like a 💩bag. Arizona at its best 🙌lol
@@dustinhoffman9843 look dude, this isn’t the place for you to project your fantasies about where you want your boyfriend to make his shot placement on you, ok?
Is it just me or is that a right twist single bevel on a left fletched arrow? If it was just put on the arrow for a prop in the video then I understand.
Hello archer brother !! You rarely shoot videos, I ask you to shoot more often, you are good at it!!!!! Greetings from Russia from Siberia from the shores of Bfikal!!!
Wow!! Hello from the US! Stay well.
I feel like your argument is: On a bad shot, a non kill shot, you would rather run an expandable because it would have a better chance of failing to cause more penetration and possibly give the animal a better chance at survival.
My thought is: Every bad shot is going to give you such different results. I have a feeling that the failure rate and downsides to a mechanical on everyday shots would outweigh the rarer result of a bad shot like the bear you showed a video of.
Or just go right down the middle and shoot a large fixed 3 blade.
I’d be curious to hear more of your opinions on front deploying vs rear deploying broadheads. I’ve always stayed away from front deploying because of the thought that the blades aren’t fully open until you have penetrated at least an inch into the animal. If you don’t get a pass through, you have only a small entry hole which would still result in minimal blood trail? Am I wrong on this?
Went down the heavy arrow single bevel rabbit hole as well ended up going back to a 3 blade setup then back to a small expandable with a good moderate weight moderate foc setup and everything I have hit with it has been recovered. I have talk to a lot of dog trackers in different states and one thing I have learned is when shooting at a big buck your better off back a few inches vs being forward a few inches. A buck cannot survive a gut shot, he's hurt he runs 100-150 yards and beds down and watches his back trail. By morning he's gone septic and if he's still alive he can't get up or move around very well. A gut shot often has a lot higher recovery then a shoulder shot if a dog is called out.
I'm switching back to the Sevr Hybrid this year. I'm still going to carry a few Kudu points, but my primary broadhead will be the Sevr. Lusk testing poves they are capable. The kills I've had with mechanicals have been easy to track and under 40yds.
Honestly I think people are just taking too far of shots, on deer especially. Until arrows break the sound barrier 40 is just too far. I don’t like mechanicals but it’s not their fault that guy took a bad shot. Every setup has its limitations, just know what yours are and make sure it flies straight
That’s clown talk. Come out to Arizona, where real bow hunters live. I just did a job for a man in his late 50’s who has a wall lined, with a lifetime of bull elk in the 350 plus range, and he took most of those elk beyond 60 yards with a 356 grain arrow, and an old school thunderhead. Anyone who is truly successful is just laughing at the dumb argument you guys pose. The biggest elk this guy killed was at 77 yards with the setup I just mentioned. And you can’t kill a whitetail at 29-30 yards with your ridiculously heavy arrow? Lol
@@progradepainting3755 my arrow is like 450. Your binary brain is fried. Just because I like fixed doesn’t mean I’m dead set on heavy. That old duffer showed you all his wins but what about his losses? I wasn’t talking about elk was I? Brandon just told a story of a doe moving, what about when it’s a buck that’s thicker and faster? Run along, you’re trying to argue with a ghost
@@bigz5262 yeah? And your autistic brain is seized up because you think somehow you can make bowhunting a 100% guaranteed kill every time, chasing your delusions that’s there’s this perfect way to do it. It doesn’t work that way. Bowhunting is imperfect by its very nature. It’s a primitive process. So yeah, everyone has missed. Yet, how many times do you think you can hunt 350 plus class bull elk on public land in a lifetime? For most people, that’s maybe 4-5 times, if they’re insanely dedicated and lucky. And yet, this guy has easily harvested 7 with a bow, probably more. And he’s killing an animal over twice the size of an eastern whitetail, with an arrow that weighs 100 grains less than yours, and still getting pass throughs! When do you wake up and say “damn, I must be missing something here?” You back east hunters are really the only ones complaining about your arrow weights, how much you hate mechanicals, and whining about pass throughs. None of you talk about the importance of things like, how well tuned your bow is, your sight access, your angle compensation, the quality of your range finder, precision on decline AND inclined shots, your arrow flight, and shot placement, none of the things that actually matter. My first pin starts at 30 yards here Arizona.
@@bigz5262 I know, you have a hard time articulating anything of value about bowhunting. Challenged on one issue, and you just shut down.
@@progradepainting3755 you’re so desperate to get words out you’re arguing with things I never said. I’m not shutting down, some people aren’t worth engaging with.
Grim reapers are the only ones I’ll use. I am going to shoot tooth of the arrow fixed this year though.
Nice to see you back. When can I order a black 'Mere Mortal Archery' t-shirt? 🤘
I’m glad you made this video because I’ve had some bad luck with my “Ashby setup.” Lost a doe due to no blood trail whatsoever on what appeared to be a great shot. Shot another and took 2 hours in the dark to track because again had barely any blood trail with 30 yard stretches of no blood at all. Deer rain about 120 yards over the crest of a ridge and zig zagged down the other side. Thought it was a bad shot, but after skinning it was a double lung with heart. This was with a 550 grain setup with Iron Will wides. Think I’m going to switch back, as well.
We’re all on our own journey in archery and bow hunting. And I appreciate you’re perspective Brandon and you taking the time to talk about your experience. Too many people are on here trying to argue and are quick to criticize your personal experience. Instead of just taking it for what it’s worth and adding it to their own mental database, or choosing not to because it doesn’t fit into their own personal archery puzzle. Anyways, good video and thanks for the info.
I myself am going to try some mechanicals as well this year, thinking dead meat/megameat or a sevr hybrid. Some of your points make sense but I don’t know if I agree with your point on the bear in the shoulder. I would think less penetration into the should will ultimately lead to deer getting wounded and dying somewhere rather than actually fully recovering
Brandon, sincere question here… why not get the best of both worlds with a huge fixed blade? Something like Tooth of the Arrow 4 blade XL? Total cut of 2-3/8” and built like a tank. The one drawback or challenge with something like that is tuning, and you’re clearly already committed to achieving perfect arrow flight with whatever head you shoot. Seems like a perfect fit for you
I shot my buck last yr with a grim reaper. I use them a lot. That buck was at 35 yards, I thought facing away, but he was actually facing more to. The arrow went in great and exited through the gut. I saw the gut hanging out the exit. He ran 70 yards, stopped, stood there not feeling well and eventually fell over. We tracked him in the dark and had almost NO blood. I feel if you accidentally hit a deer in the gut it is more likely to expire quicker than a smaller fixed blade. I use a 1 3/4” grim reaper because I’ve had the 2” blades break off in the ribs. Those blades are just so long they’re like twigs. My bow can shoot either broadheads accurately at 40yards. I’ve got both fixed and grim reaper but I like the grim reaper. I’m more worried about a gut shot than a shoulder shot.
I am basically on the same journey as well. Went heavy and fixed, had issues with trajectory and blood at 600 grains. Went down to a little over 500 for trajectory but still terrible blood. 4 deer total: double lung (mid), cut off top of heart, gut, double lungs (low). Maybe 1 tbsp of total blood for all four deer combined.
Doesnt matter how dead the deer is, if you can’t find it, it makes no difference
So you didn't recover those deer?
@@PoeOutdoors I recovered all of them. But it took significantly longer than it should have considering the shot that was made. 3/4 were found via grid searching.
My concern with what I have seen is, I’m going to kill a deer one day and not be able to find it because there is no blood on the ground.
fixed blade is not the cause of poor blood trails. Small cut heads are the problem, Im going to make an assumption that you went the 1-1/8 2 blade route. if you want a decent blood trail shoot at least a 1-1/4 diameter 3 blade, or bigger if its a 2 blade.
@@andrecancilla4901 that is a correct assumption. I could definitely go three blade or a two blade with bleeders. But I draw 72 and have 30.5” DL so I’m going a little bigger with a mech, given I have a little extra power behind my arrow.
At the end of the day, regardless of the broadhead, I want a bigger hole so it doesn’t plug up and allows more blood to exit the body.
@@wvbowhunter1 For sure. Your reasoning is mostly why I've stayed away from mechanicals. 70 lbs with a sub 27 inch draw length. My bow is not pushing that hard and I know it. I did shoot a buck with a sevr 2 seasons ago that just poked through the offside on the meaty area of the shoulder so I consider that a win. I'll have some sevr in my quiver this season as well as qad exodus
I would like to see arrow companies make lighter gpi arrows and still be strong. For example a 250 spine arrow around 5-6 gpi with mfjj’s insert and collar. Taw without head be around 250gr with a solid 3 blade at 1.5 cut around 150-200 gr
@@Treymorrell agreed.
@@progradepainting3755yeah so you can have 20 lbs of kinetic energy on those 70 yard shots your making lol
I shoot 13/8 pro grim reaper and cause of injuries can only shoot mid 50 pounds with 360 grain arrow. Shot 3 deer last season arrow stayed in all three. Not one of them made it more than 20 yards with great blood. Happy hunting and God bless
That’s interesting. I would have said not to shoot mechanicals with 50lbs but it’s working for you. Keep rocking!
This feels like planning to fail. I really like your take on stuff, I was just surprised by this take. Looking forward to your continued updates with more experiences!
Out of curiosity, did you shoot the doe you spoke of from the ground, or a tree?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I switched from fixed broadheads to mechanicals because I had lost two deer. One being a nice buck. I switched to rage and was successful. It wasn’t till 2 years ago I went back to fixed. I had two rage broadheads open one in the bow and the other from the quiver. It was at that moment I didn’t want to leave things to chance so back to fixed. The 2 deer I lost were all shot placement issues. My point I guess is do what is right for you. Happy hunting!!
Where was the cigar and bourbon sir???? 😂. I’m having the same “full circle “ in this area myself. Just gives me a more clear idea
With my bow, I'm a fixed blade guy. With my crossbow, G5 mega meat is spectacular in a real Quentin Tarantino kinda way.
I agree you about the small cutting diameter broadheads and the lack of blood trails. I really like Simmons shark broadheads. They fly great, are easy to sharpen, and have a big cutting diameter.
I shot a 80lbs pa doe last yr with whitetail special it went in right behind front shoulder defected off rib and exited out hind quarter of the same side it entered i switched to beast the next hunt and 9 deer later have not had 1 deflection or non passthru since dont no the science behind it but something in the blades having tentation and being able to move ard bone is a huge benefit on deflection witch has been my biggest issue with most mechanicals
I like your take, I recommend the pro series 1 3/8" grim reaper. I would think it would be good for elk, which I will be using myself this year after seeing how it performed on whitetails. I love the tip on the pro series, really seems to help with penetration. for what it's worth. Good luck
Ive had too many not open. Thats my experience. I use 3 blade fixed now. Dont have blood trail problems. FOC for pass thru. But thats where im comfortable
Nothing wrong with that. Confidence in your gear and understanding what it can and can’t do. Sounds like you’re there.
“anecdotal”. BMac would say. We’ll figure it out for ourselves. each hunter/archer has their own shooting abilities, Hunting abilities and how they handle perceived pressure Which will influence their hunting set ups.
I've asked so many people about 2 blade cutting direction either horizontally or vertically. No one has talked about it. Thanks!
Worst case scenario in my mind is not hitting bone at all. Worst case is too far back.
Ahhh factor #12, the most misunderstood of them all. Many people don't see beyond "heavy bone threshold...650g total arrow weight" which leads them to believe that as long as the arrow weighs 650g it'll always go through heavy bone OR that if you shoot less than 650g you won't be able to breach heavy bone. WRONG.
What it DOES mean is that every style of broadhead that Dr. Ed Ashby tested showed an increased frequency of penetrating heavy bone when the arrow-mass was up around 650g total arrow weight
• the heavy bone threshold is referring to the total arrow weight needed to consistently bust through (breach) heavy bone
at, or very near 650 grain total arrow weight is what is considered to be the heavy bone threshold
• arrow-mass above heavy bone threshold is listed at # 12 because it has little significance on soft tissue impact, however on heavy bone impact this factor moves to #3. why does it move up to #3? because when heavy bone is encountered your chance of breaching that bone enough to be lethal significantly increases when using an arrow system of 650 grains TAW. (total arrow weight)
• The greater the arrow-mass the more efficient the bow itself becomes. Why? heavier arrows absorb more of the energy from the bow
•an arrow system of at least 650g TAW increases the arrows odds of getting through heavy bone to ~95%
• an arrow system that is under 650g TAW might get through heavy bone ~60-70% of the time
@@alexan_lynn where does any of this make a bit of difference on a deer, where the only bone you’d have to worry about is the t bone, which makes up 3% of the deers anatomy? You’re going to create an entire arrow system for 3% of a deer?
@@progradepainting3755congratulations on missing the ENTIRE point of everything lol. You really must be a liberal. Like shouldn't even be allowed to hunt, especially with a firearm. No wonder you paint for a living 😂
I actually switched back last year for all the reasons you mention. No regrets.
Grim reaper mini mags and micro pro series is all I use they fly like darts 🩸 🎯
Hit big bones with Grim Reaper mechanicals before and always blow right through them.
Many game farms in Zimbabwe and South Africa will not allow the use of mechanical broadheads on tougher &/or heavier boned game due to too many failures to deploy properly, penetrate deeply enough or break or a combination of these problems.
@@colinmitchell3213 technology has came a long ways as far as broadheads go. It will take the laws sometime to catch up. I am speaking from my experience breaking bones on large North American game. We don’t have Cape buffalo here. But I’ve broke femurs and shoulders on several elk with great success. But I’m also shooting a 84lb speed bow which definitely helps.
Last 3 years for elk I have in my quiver a couple mechanical heads and three fixed . My mechanicals are at lease a two inch cut or better just for the reason you pointed out I had not so good shots and still recovered the animals do to the wound channel was so big
Interesting perspective, I think you'd get support from John Dudley on your logic. He phrased his argument a little differently, as in why build your hunting arrow setup for a worst-case scenario that you might actually encounter less than 20% of the time?
I've had great luck with the GR Whitetail Specials and Sevr 2.0 on whitetail.
Right there with ya. I know there are downsides to mechanicals. But the up side has been so great I won’t change.
I’ve been back and forth between mechanicals and fixed my self. Killed several whitetails with each over the years. One point I’d like to make though. If you hit a deer too far back, let’s say 100% guts, that deer is going to die. Regardless of what head is used a gutshot deer will more than likely be dead within 24 hours. From my experience and what I’ve seen from others, a gut shot deer will not go far. They will bed down and die right there within a few hours. As long as the deer isn’t pushed (that’s a big if) you can find the deer the next day. So hitting too far back is not the worse case, hitting big bone is. So IMO that’s a strong argument for fixed heads with the correct setup. If you miss too far forward with a quality fixed you have a better chance of better penetration. If you miss too far back, still a dead deer.
Of course the huge advantage to big mechanicals is the blood trail. There’s no denying that.
@@it_is_finished no, a mechanical will absolutely kill a gut shot deer much faster than a fixed. You’re going to base your entire arrow set up and all the limiting factors of a heavy arrow and fixed head on a 3% chance of hitting the t bone? Not very good logic in my opinion. I’ll take the mechanical any day of the week.
@@progradepainting3755no it doesn't lol, and the point you missed again is with the fixed blade setup you up your odds in all scenarios. Lmao what an fn tard
I’m a fan of the sevrs.
Also really like the afflictor hybrid. The design doesn’t se to cost much energy at all and they lock open
With your Whitetail Special kills, do you feel like the broadhead has made up for a less than stellar hit on an animal; or were all of the kills text book shots?
One in a doe was high. The rest were good. High shot in the doe was still double lung but I credit the size of the cut of the broadhead to actually getting lung
@@brandonmcdonald6121 that’s good info, I appreciate it.
I sincerely appreciate all the aspects you bring to the table on this one. I started traditional archery about 3 years ago and in that time I have seen so many deer killed in all of these scenarios with 45--50 lb bows. The absolute best hands down insane blood trails I've seen from 90% of those kills came from Simmons Shark broadheads
I don’t even think I’ve heard of those. Interesting. I’ll have to google
@@brandonmcdonald6121pretty nasty wound channels for sure
Been using 150 grain mechanicals for years now, almost always pass throughs, last year wondered why it didn’t until I went to gut him here the 150 grain Rage went through and destroyed the opposite upper leg bone on a well over 230 pound dressed buck. Never seen anything like it!
Very valuable insight, I’m a stico guy, but I’ve played around with two blade broadheads and completely agree with your ponderings. I like a good efficient multi blade fixed. But if I shot a compound, adorable and reliable, mechanical would probably be my choice. Another thing about multi blade mechanicals, one of the main issues is that sometimes the blades break so having extra blades is helpful.
Ohhh your going to take some heat for this lolol.... I'm with ya brother I been saying the same thing I'm at 500 gran with sevr and no problems... I'm interested to see where your thoughts go with it..
People get REAL fired up about this 😳 haha
@brandonmcdonald6121 yes they do it's freaking funny as hell ...
Whatever happened to that goal you had to shoot a 300? Did you succeed?
Cool video i have had great success wt Magnus stinger buzz cut broadheads wt bleeders. But also wt Rage hypodermic no collar. My mathews is tuned and i pull 78# 28.5 mods 430 grain Easton axis 5mm arrows. And get pass throughs. Just food for thought.
If an arrow doesn’t go all the way threw you will get a better blood trail because the arrow is keeping all the holes in line. The hole in the hide the hole threw the ribs and lungs.
Thanks Brandon, great arguments. I love the idea of not wounding an animal more than necessary if a bad shot happens. Appreciate your transparency and honesty about making content as well.
I'm constantly having this conversation in my head because I have a setup that shoots fixed blade broadheads really well. Like you, though, I've noticed that the blood trails aren't great. I literally had to find a deer by smell a couple years ago, but I use the fixed blades over and over. On the flip side, every deer I've shot with a mechanical (first rages and then Sevrs) has left an absolulte horror show of blood. The Rages were one and done, and I switched to Sevrs because I had a rage blade break off in a Buck (Still recovered the buck, but I don't like having to look for a razor in my meat). The Sevrs have been reusable with the occational blade swap and shoot really well. I bought some Grim Reaper whitetail specails and the one I was using for practice completely fell apart after only four shots into foam, so that head is going to be relegated to turkey duty (which I think it will be excellent for). I don't trust it's structural integrity on a deer rib, let alone anything harder. I really like the simplicity of the Sevrs an the way they pivot around bone. I think it puts them in contention as one of the best broadheads out there, as it sidesteps (literally) the "bone breaking" issue.
I also think a low profile mechanical is just more likely to hit where you are aiming in the wild. They are more forgiving off the shot and less susceptible to environmental factors, so I too am thinking of switching back.
is it at all possible to tune so you can carry both fixed and mechanical?
Good video, im a big fan of mechanical bh's, back 20 years ago I was using a coc 2 blade for a few years with some not so great results, I switched to a mech and wow. I even shot my first elk with one last fall, it worked amazing, it was a grim reaper pro series 1 3/8"
I use the grim reaper whitetail special solely based on it having 3 blades of more cutting surface than anything else in hopes that if I make a marginal shot, it would still provide a fatal result. So far, I am 6/6 on deer I’ve shot with it and recovered. I even made a horrible shot on a buck at the top of his back leg, the broadhead buried into his spine, cut a major artery, and I recovered him 160 yards later. Completely my fault, but the broadhead saved me.
I’m not trying to argue with anybody. I’m just sitting a fact he needs to take ownership for making bad shots and not blaming equipment. I know just like anybody else has lost an animal since I live in Alaska. I lost a 65 inch moose. I blame myself, not the equipment.
@@tycolee4306 this statement is played out. Of course bad shots happen, but a mechanical is more forgiving on a bad shot than a fixed is. This is bow hunting, bad shots happen. If you’re going to sit around punching yourself in the head over it happening, go pick up a rifle, or just don’t hunt.
You should try the beast broadhead as they will be a more durable exadable and could penetrate around bone... probably a compromise between the two
I need to order some. Only thing is I like 3 blades instead of 2.
@@brandonmcdonald6121 Just received the Sevr 1.5 hybrids last week. Sacrificed one for target shooting - I probably shot the Sevr hybrid 20 times during two different outings to confirm their accuracy vis a vis my field tips. Accuracy is indistinguishable from my field tips out to 50 yards. I have a tuned bow.
Great meeting you on your way through Iowa at the shop in Iowa city.
You hit the central point - the bow/arrow/shooter combination has to be tuned. A shooter cannot begin from any other point and expect optimal results. I shoot a fixed blade because I place a higher value on the maxim "that anything mechanical can fail" than I do "a better blood trail". Thank you for sharing your thought process and rationale for your choices. Good luck this fall.
Dam you Brandon, you made sense for once
Dangit, I've returned to archery after 13 years..... a lot has changed in that time. Especially with archery laws in oregon. I have been waffling forever over the fixed blades I like and going to mechanicals. And I'm open as I'm basically brand new again. This made me start thinking again... and season is a month and a half away.... thanks for that, honestly. Time to build my own opinion.
This will be my 18th year bow hunting and I've been down just about every rabbit hole there is with arrow set up and broadheads. You're planning for a failure.. I'm never ever going to plan for my arrow to bounce out if my shot is off a little. This seems completely silly to me. Might as well put a spork on the end of a shovel handle and go gigging. The BROADHEAD absolutely needs to be the strongest, most durable component of an arrow. Personally I use the Magnus Blackhornet Ser Razor, total arrow weight is 570gr (30" DL, 74lb DW) at 260fps. My goal is to crush everything I hit. Quartering to, away, broadside, up/down angle, doesn't matter. Aim for the exit hole and the dirt. Pass though every single time. I have chopped leg bones in half on the exit side and still put the arrow in the dirt and the broadhead is still in relatively good shape.
Everything in life is like this. You get more of one thing it takes away from another. Meet in the middle and it takes from both sides. The delicate balance. Uncle Iroh approved.
On deer, do you aim low, anticipating the drop?
I keep both SEVR and Iron Will in my quiver at all times. I use them for different situations.
Tells me your gear is tuned. A step some folks skip!
@@brandonmcdonald6121 lol I try. If I’m hunting from the ground, especially in the prairie states, spot and stalk, I like having a fixed blade on my bow. I had issues with blades getting caught in grass when I was nocked up, close and crawling. Additionally, shooting through light grass with an iron Will seems to not affect it. The SEVRs are there for long follow up shots, over 65 yards. Generally after an animal is hit, he will run out some distance and stop to look around. I try to immediately nock an arrow after the first shot in case a follow up is presented I can take it as soon as available. The mechanical is less affected by wind(which is always blowing) or perfect form at really long distances. I’ve made follow up shots at 115+ yards to make sure the animal is bleeding enough as well as hopefully hit enough to minimize suffering.
From a tree stand for whitetail the play the reverse roll. Mechanical nicked up, and iron Will for recovery of animal.
Thanks for the video Brandon.
Spot on, love the 2 inch cut Swhackers, no problems many deer down and quick, always a pass through.
Interesting take, I think the reason mechanicals get a bad rap sometimes is because exactly what you’re saying. They are on an untuned bow. A poor shot was made, and the animal wasn’t recovered… that being said I have lost animals on both. most recently with a 1,75 serv.
Great video of your experiences and point of view! Thank you . We missed ya buddy ! I had similar experience with single bevels no blood trail but then again when I did my job correctly the deer never moved either 🤔 interesting concepts
I never left them bro lol but the Magnus stinger does have a soft spot in my heart and I always keep one in my quiver
same here! Switching to Mechs, for a few similar and a few different reasons
wanted to make a video like this, but I'll have to figure out a new concept. great vid
I dont get the idea that the same grain setup won't penetrate as far mechanical vs fixed... I think the problem is 26inch drawlengths shooting sub 280 fps and shooting low arrow weight. They make titanium mechanicals. I shot my last deer through both shoulders (completely broken bones both sides) with a mediocre nap spitfire. Total arrow weight 450g. But... I shoot 70lbs at 30.5 inches. Never lost a deer with a mech. Speed kills deer.
You're right about that. Which is why shorter draw length and lower speed benefits so well from heavier setups. Jump on a traditional archery site and the majority of those hunters are killing big heavy deer with 45--50 lb bows with full pass throughs, you'll also find that the fixed heads they're using are Simmons heads and they leave absolutely violent blood trails
I agree Brandon 100 percent! If you know you a good shot and trust yourself that ur gunna hit where u aim then no reason to shoot fixed
I’ve used both fixed and mechanical broadheads. Now I use afflictor hybrid. Best of both worlds. Mechanical deflect at weird angles. Penetration is not good and the Broadhead is weak structurally. Fixed don’t have as big of wound capabilities. They are stronger and penetrate deeper, but can have bad arrow flight in different situations. I personally like a hybrid or fixed for whitetail and definitely elk. I comes down to making a good shot at the right angle. No excuses! I’ve had my fair share of mistakes and when I look back it comes down to bad decisions and rushing my shot when things go wrong.
I’ve had that comment a few times now. People like the hybrids
I've had the exact same thing happen with grim reapers I will never in my life ever shoot grim reapers ever again
I like your point's but there's no guarantee of hitting an animal in the shoulder blade that mechanical still will not penetrate just enough to where it dies slowly also. I've had great results mechanicals and very poor results as well of them bending and not fully deploying just from hitting a rib dead center.