Love your videos man. You always seem to bring something different to the table, you look at things a little different than all the others that seem to rehash the same things. Keep up the good work
Fascinating to see this today. Just earlier, in very windy conditions, i was out shooting 4 types of Iron Will broadheads. The standard double bevel wides have always shot well for me. Today, in the wind, I was amazed at how well the single bevels shot. Much tighter groups and for whatever reason, way less impacted by the wind.
You are correct….spin averages out build imperfections. Your bow will naturally spin an arrow based on how your string is twisted so ideally your vane orientation and broad-head bevel direction would all match to induce the same rotation. E.G. bow clocks left then left helical/offset with left-bevel broadhead. All other things being equal, that will give the most forgiving arrow flight and the best terminal performance.
You are 100% correct. My arrows clock left off my bow. So I fletch with a left helical using an Arizona EZ Fletch Mini Max and have a 125gr Iron Will Single Bevel to the left up front. This is my first year using this combination, but they are grouping really well together. So I don't foresee any issues.
I agree with you and spent a lot of time tuning my arrows. Knowing my bow was tuned, I used different spines (ended up sticking w/Easton Axis 300 spine Match Grade), then adding/subtracting weight up front, then knock tuned. I was punching perfect holes in paper with 610 gr, 250 gr up front. 150 gr field tip, 25 gr ss collar, 75 gr insert. The outsert/insert stiffens the arrow and provides structural integrity. My arrows have 4 fletchings w/a left helical. Then I went with the Iron Will left single bevel. There is no difference in accuracy between my field points and broad heads. Took me a long time to go through the process.
Hey Brandon! Great to see you at TAC-SA. Just getting around to watching this particular video and I recall us discussing this on IG when you were first starting shooting the IW wides. I think you've done a really great job here explaining a complex concept in easy to understand terms. Best regards!
Videos are always on point sir, I also shoot Iron will heads and can 100% backup what you are saying. To the point that I shot some M3s to see the difference and the iron will single bevel heads definitely grouped better at 60 yards. I did the exact same thing, basic paper tune then shot the broad heads and they were spot on with a slightly imperfect tune. I just picked up the new 100 grain wide vented that I will be testing this weekend, see how they do.
Makes complete sense to me. My bow rotates arrows left so I put my fletching on left offset. Gives far better accuracy. Then I buy kudu single bevel left broadheads and it’s very accurate to 50 yards.
I've come to the same conclusions! Good video and very informative. What's even crazier in the larger the bevel edge, the more stabilization. I've been shooting the crafted archery aero 1 in 175 grain. 82.4 LB bow sending 525 grains at 285 fps. Even though it's a large fixed head, bullets at 60 yards. Keep digging! I'm interested to see the next video.
I’m glad you made this video. It may have been me being a moron but this whole time I thought single bevel just meant one side was sharp and the other completely dull and I couldn’t figure out how that would be helpful.
How I see it. If you can get a broad head to hit in the same place as a field point then the broad head isn’t doing much to affect the flight of the arrow aside from how it exits the bow. If the broad head spins faster I’d think that it would affect arrows drop more so it could hit lower than the field point at further distance. That’s just how it makes sense in my brain.
You're not wrong but you're missing something critical. All broadheads slow down the arrow, so when you tune the bow such that the field points fly the same, you are giving the arrow an offset trajectory. Just the extra surface area alone will slow down the arrow, as well. In fact, compared to the forward speed of the arrow, the extra spin has very little effect on slowing it down. The surface area of the broadhead plays a bigger role is wasting speed. The issue with accuracy is then there is not enough spin, which allows the front of the arrow to catch the air and fly in a random direction. Hope this helps!
Well I can tell you with 100% confidence that your arrow has begun to spin the moment it leaves the bow. Not 18" or 2 feet, instantly. This occurs with a bare shaft and a field point just due to the strings serving direction. So that theory is definitely not why it is more consistent. My guess is that it is a consistent force vector on the arrow thet overpowers any irregularities in airpressure within the first 10 to 15 feet from the bow. Instead of the front of the arrow having to decide which direction it wants to go (like a knuckle ball), it acts on the air in one direction( like a fast ball). That's my theory.
Decided that after changing front double bevel to single bevel a few yrs ago. Thought it was me. In fact I shoot single bevel at 80+ better than practice head. Again thought it was just me.
You realize you just proved something the Ranch Fairy has been preaching for quite a while with nock tuning and shooting your broadheads. The best part is it costs you nothing but 2 to 3 minutes of your time. I wonder how many would've blamed the broadhead and proceeded to shim cams, twist yolks, change top hats, adjust the technologies, without even giving a thought to spinning the nock?
Nock tuning is great when your bow has a decent tune on it. He did say bow was shooting almost perfect bullet hole.. Ranch fairy has also gave tuning advice to compound shooters to keep adding point weight till arrow bareshaft tunes. Great for trad guys but for a guy all about efficiency and science it’s a tad ironic.
I would add that "nock tuning" is just finding the stiff point in your arrow. Either way you look at it, you are creating consistency because every arrows spine is coming out the same way. Before nock tuning, you're guessing where the stiff point in your arrow.
Thank's for your study on broadhead flight you might be on to something. I have been bowhunting for over 40 years. I remember not having as much flight problems with fixed blade broadheads 1-1/4" wide or narrower as long as your bow was squared up right I'm talking compound bows and your arrows were straight and the broadheads spun true you had pretty good flight with old launcher rests and alot of people shot with finger too. I really feel that when they introduced carbon arrows in the begining speed and durability was there only concern. If you shot an old xx75 easton arrow they were . 003 straightness and the walls of the arrow was almost perfect in thickness. They also payed attention to the grade of Aluminum which was 7075. My point is they flex consistent as long the bow was repeating properly. So know we got carbon and the flex rate between arrow vary alot more due to having an area on the arrow shaft that is thicker which will flex different unless each arrow is inspected you will experience a erratic flex that's why nock tuning is necessary to get fixed blades to be close to your field points. Target archers have to nock tune each arrow to get the flight they need to compete and sometimes even with the best arrows they get some in the dozen that will not turn well that is multiplied when you introduce a fixed blade broadhead to a hunting arrow. Although technology has done some great things in archery alot of people have become rich because of it. Everything unfortunately in todays world is dollar motivated and in my opinion the heavy double bevel fixed blade is a good example. I myself cannot afford this venture if you can yes it will be better but is it really necessary in most cases. I do understand the need for such quality systems for dangerous game animals. They require alot more durability and structure in the arrow and broadhead. In my opinion a well placed shot with a quality broadhead gets the job done cleanly and ethically on most big game animals as long as you have enough power in your setup. Thank's again for your input you got me thinking about the blades causing more spin. It's really great even at my age I'm still learning. Thank's Ralph
Ive always nock tuned bare shafts through paper to get them all close. Then fletched and nock tuned what minor differences the vanes made in paper. I've never had to broadhead tune any head ever in my life.
Good to have you back in my feed sir. Interesting hypothesis. I want to question it in good faith discussion. While I think your reasoning of getting the arrow to spin quicker is sound, I wonder if the effort to get all arrow spines, all fletchings in the equivalent spot (in relation to spine weakness/stiffness - pick your poison), and broadhead indexing exactly the same across a dozen arrows is feasible. Then we have arrow squaring (nock end and pointy end) to contend with. I have to assume if your broadheads are seated slightly differently (because you didn't square each arrow the same) then you will have additional variation. I want to believe that a double bevel, three blade broadhead would be more forgiving as it is imparting less directional / torsional effects. But that's just what I think, let me know what you think.
@@brandonmcdonald6121 We are all in the same boat there mate! It's fun to tinker and play with out gear, it only makes us better archers/hunters. I enjoy your perspectives and trialing some of it myself. Cheers.
Single bevel continues to rotate inside the animal. Also, the torque will split bone. It is like a wood chisel. I'd love to get a set of single bevels. But, I'm too invested in double bevel. Stingers & Black Hornet Ser-Razors.
Absolutely nothing wrong with either of those double bevels. I do prefer the Stingers over the Hornets, but only because of the length to width ratio being better for penetration on the Stingers.
@@papaschuette That's true. I just want to try the Ser-Razors just because they look like a flying Battle Axe. LOL! I also, try to get them at least razorsharp.
@@timl8302 I would still go with the Buzzcut 4 blade or Killer Bee 4 blade. Both have sharper angles, leading to better penetration. The hornets are just too blunt of an angle for me.
@@aarongoeppner413you’re not alone. Looking at selling mine now. I’ve never been less confident in my accuracy in my life. I had my bow tuned and Lancaster Archery and tried every fletching, wrap, collar, insert, etc and they just do not want the fly straight. I will agree that some/most of it is me and my form but I haven’t taken a “perfect John Dudley form” shot since I started hunting.
Brandon so are you shooting rip tko elite 300s with the 150grain iron will single bevel. Are you using the iron will collars too or whats ur entire aarow setup, weight and what fps you getting. Also i noticed and you mentioned your shooting the iron will right broadheads so does ur bow naturally spin arrows to the right. Asking all this cuz I shoot the rip tko elite 300 with hybrid vanes max helical to the left with iron will collar and my mathews setup naturally spins my arrows to the left. Anyways im thinking about adding the iron will left broadheads to my arrow setup for 2024 so wanting opinions on it now that u been shooting it for while. ABT
I think it actually changes. Off the shot the arrow flexes harder, so a larger vein right out the gate would be nice to have but once the arrow is in the air and stabilized a lighter weight, Smaller Vane would be fine since there’s more wait out front. We are definitely getting into the nitty-gritty. After seeing some of these results, I may just switch to a giant set of vanes even though they are super loud and get maximum stability.
Without getting crazy, no. The force applied to the arrow is the same, as long as the fletching is the same. It's more about the stiffness of the shaft, stiffness of the vane, and overall weight of the arrow. Heavier arrows take more fletching to spin up.
@@brandonmcdonald6121 True true. Per Seans note below, and, yes, this is a long rabbit hole, BUT, making the assumption the arrow doesnt change, the trend now is high(er) FOC, which i can agree with but need to weigh all factors. if you have to throw larger vanes on back to obtain stability, you then have to throw more weight up front to maintain FOC. i just havent ever seen or heard of a "study", nor am i an engineer, that analyzes FOC and spin (etc). just interesting with trends and inevitably consumer demand/marketing/etc. Having spent a tremendous amount of time and money over the last 3 months tinkering, just makes me laugh cuase my setup will kill anything on continent (which i knew before tinkering)...
Hey Brandon! It's Sam. I have a question about broadhead tuning. I do the Ranch Fairy process and then screw in my single bevel broad heads. They always hit right with my field point arrows. So I'm wondering what is the difference between the two?
If the single bevel is already proving to be more accurate with your current setup, more fletching would just reinforce the single bevel being more efficient. You would likely hit a point where they are equally accurate, but at the unneeded cost of increased drag and wind drift. My question now is, what is the difference between a single bevel 2-blade and a single bevel 3-blade? Would it also just further reinforce my argument above?
I had an interesting occurrence happen with my Mathews which clocks left naturally, at the time I was shooting 680g bigger vanes(can’t remember which one) and a 200 spine arrow with about 270’ish grains up front. So when I decided I wanted to shoot a faster arrow I dropped down to about 540 grains for reference I have a 31” draw and a 73 lbs set up, the arrow was now a 250 spine with a slightly shorter vane and different profile and roughly 175g point weight(tip and insert) it would actually sort of knuckle ball. So my thought were either the foc of the 680g arrow made it so it could overcome that natural clocking motion much easier or the vanes made a difference but I just thought it was really interesting that the “lighter” set up was sooooo much more finicky especially when it came to broadheads. Both set ups now with a left helical on the lighter arrow will both shoot field points and broadheads out 60 yards as a group. It just blew my mind how much of a difference it made.
Sail area. I would be very surprised if the single-bevel's relatively small bevel edge exerted more rotational force in air than the large vanes, though that would be highly dependent upon how much spiral your vanes were installed with and how wide/stiff the vanes are, yes? I think it could be argued that if the single-bevel exerted that much force, you would see a measurable drop in arrow velocity vs a similarly constructed double-bevel. I expect that situation inverts once the arrow hits a medium denser than air. I'll grant you that it probably helps a measurable amount, meaning the rest is academic if you're not seeing radical changes in velocity or drift at longer ranges.
Between the bleeders, the blades and the fact that it’s steal so it doesn’t bend at all, I think the iron will specifically is catching a pretty decent amount of air.
So i have 1 honest question that anyone is more than welcome to answer. I have wanted to use the Iron Will single bevel braodheads. A guy I know that owns a bowshop, told me to not waste my money on IronWills. If I want single bevel broadheads then I need to save about a 3rd of the cost and get Kudu 125g single bevel broadheads. I will say that they enter and come out with so much force. Almost every arrow hits the ground after a full pass through and shatters into multiple little 3 to 7 inch sections. Victory Vap Game elite 300. Total arrow weight is 487g
I’ve shot those before and they were great. For some reason I just like the IW stuff. I think the spin of the single bevel is more the point for this one as long as the surface area of the blade is similar
Ive shot Kudu's. They are awesome. My complaint about the Kudu's is that I sometimes have issues re-sharpening even with the stay sharp guide. Can't really sharpen the bleeders and they are really small. I find IW to be easier to sharpen even though its a harder steel. Bleeders on IW are wayyyy better than the Kudu. But cant go wrong with either head. If you're on a budget, buy the Kudu. If you can swing the IW, you wont be sorry. You're going to kill whatever you hit with both heads. It comes down to budget and what your preference is for sharpening.
@brandonmcdonald6121 thank you for taking the time and responding sir. I have been using the IW 125gr single and I won't go back to the Kudu lol. Kudu were nice but IW is noticeably better in my personal opinion.
lol, that is a tough one to believe, that a single bevel will shoot better than a double bevel, thats almost like saying a sharp broadhead will shoot better than a dull broadhead, i just dont believe it.
Cool video I need to get out shoot my broadheads but dam after getting of the roof from working here in NC I just can't bring myself to get out in the heat till the weekend lol..
Could you not test this by simply marking a vain or a line on the shaft and then shooting a target 3 feet from the bow and see which one rotates more in that distance? Maybe you would be able to tell if there’s enough difference in rotation with a single bevel that it would pay to do more testing with a high speed camera.
Ok im sorry but I've shot single bevel, and double bevel regardless what you shoot you always make sure your equipment is ready for the shot. Sounds like the bear suffered from poor judgment and preparation or bad shot placement.
I've always believed that the aerodynamic ability of a 125gn target tip is equal to the aerodynamic ability of a 100gn broadhead. Add that concept to helical vanes and single bevel equals the G.O.A.T arrow
i agree with you, my 125gr field points shoot perfectly with my 100gr swhacker broadheads at distance, when i was shooting 100gr ramcats i had to use 150gr field points to match them at distance. i would never expect the same gr broadheads and field points to shoot perfectly together because the aerodynamics are totally different.
@@brandonmcdonald6121 you miss understood... The broadhead information I completely agree with, you explain it well. Just saying we both apparently enjoy Jeremy Clarkson's adventure into farming...
Probably because they want to rotate. They are not a wing fighting rotation they are forcing rotation. This makes so much sense its nuts. Ithis is why I love this channel. You dick around with stuff and observe what matters and works. Not some blowhard that is closed minded.
@brandonmcdonald6121 No, because this actually helps people others keep talking about hiw it does in the animal and never do any thought into the actual shooting. Like you sorta mentioned if you can't hit what your aiming at then the animal walks away un harmed or injured not dead.
Tl;Dr: Gyroscopic stability from a single bevel is technically present but practically and likely statistically irrelevant. Confirmation bias is far more likely. There is no way air pressure creates enough force on the bevels to cause a noticeable(read practical probably even measurable) difference compared to any other broadhead of the same shape/wieght with a different edge grind. It's WAY more likely that you're running into confirmation bias. I especially suspect since you don't show any steps towards removing bias.
It’s for sure possible. Only way to really know is to remove the human element altogether. I’m a redneck tester. I don’t think I agree with you, but your fancy words tell me you might be smarter than me 🤓
try sticking something like a broadhead out a car window at 80 miles per hour and see for yourself how much air pressure there is. now think 200 miles per hour. also its not the gyroscopic moment that reduces deflection, its that deflection is spread through 360 degrees of rotation. lets take extremes so that its more obvious: when the arrow doesnt rotate and the aerodynamics pull it to the side - it deflects way off to that side. but when an arrow is pulling to the side but at the same time is rotating, its pulling to a different side every moment, thus greatly reducing the overall deflection.
Why not just stick with the big mechanical? You can’t argue with your own results. With such high efficient bows, high quality arrow builds for me mechanicals are working better than ever.
I go back and forth. Should have used the biggest damn mechanical I could in Canada. I think it’ll be a thing I’ll always mess with over time. Back and forth. Heavy, light. Mechanical, fixed.
@@brandonmcdonald6121 I do the same thing. I have a drawer full of different heads. Arrows of many weights. The RIP VI with 150g Micro Hades with a TAW of 375 has beeen nothing short of amazing on pigs this year for me. Even questioned it for my elk set up.
@@georgewashington1621 I’m not sure. Prime Inline 5. 70lbs, 29”dl. If I had to guess 300 or maybe alittle more. I’ve had them blow through so fast they split saplings behind them.
To hear "torquage" and "congruency" in the same breath was truly fascinating.
Maximum torqueage!!
This sounds like a good reason for a trip to Huntsville Alabama to work with Smarter Every Day.
The lighting in your videos is killer. Always enjoy when you drop a new video. Thanks for your time!
Love your videos man. You always seem to bring something different to the table, you look at things a little different than all the others that seem to rehash the same things. Keep up the good work
Very much appreciate that
Fascinating to see this today. Just earlier, in very windy conditions, i was out shooting 4 types of Iron Will broadheads. The standard double bevel wides have always shot well for me. Today, in the wind, I was amazed at how well the single bevels shot. Much tighter groups and for whatever reason, way less impacted by the wind.
More spin means less impact by wind. Think about QBs with good tight, fast spirals in inclement weather games vs the noodle arm ones.
You are correct….spin averages out build imperfections. Your bow will naturally spin an arrow based on how your string is twisted so ideally your vane orientation and broad-head bevel direction would all match to induce the same rotation. E.G. bow clocks left then left helical/offset with left-bevel broadhead. All other things being equal, that will give the most forgiving arrow flight and the best terminal performance.
You are 100% correct. My arrows clock left off my bow. So I fletch with a left helical using an Arizona EZ Fletch Mini Max and have a 125gr Iron Will Single Bevel to the left up front. This is my first year using this combination, but they are grouping really well together. So I don't foresee any issues.
It is good to see you back and I never thought about the single bevel the way you presented it.
What a wicked video! Great editing and layout
I agree with you and spent a lot of time tuning my arrows. Knowing my bow was tuned, I used different spines (ended up sticking w/Easton Axis 300 spine Match Grade), then adding/subtracting weight up front, then knock tuned. I was punching perfect holes in paper with 610 gr, 250 gr up front. 150 gr field tip, 25 gr ss collar, 75 gr insert. The outsert/insert stiffens the arrow and provides structural integrity. My arrows have 4 fletchings w/a left helical. Then I went with the Iron Will left single bevel. There is no difference in accuracy between my field points and broad heads. Took me a long time to go through the process.
Hey Brandon! Great to see you at TAC-SA. Just getting around to watching this particular video and I recall us discussing this on IG when you were first starting shooting the IW wides. I think you've done a really great job here explaining a complex concept in easy to understand terms. Best regards!
Good to see you as well! Sorry I didn’t make it by the booth for a longer conversation. Let me know if you make it up to Nashville!
Tuning, tuning, tuning.
Makes your life so much easier when changing broadheads. Bareshaft paper tuning and nock tuning preferred
So glade to see you back with the Hoyt! Love your videos never miss one!
Videos are always on point sir, I also shoot Iron will heads and can 100% backup what you are saying. To the point that I shot some M3s to see the difference and the iron will single bevel heads definitely grouped better at 60 yards. I did the exact same thing, basic paper tune then shot the broad heads and they were spot on with a slightly imperfect tune. I just picked up the new 100 grain wide vented that I will be testing this weekend, see how they do.
Makes complete sense to me. My bow rotates arrows left so I put my fletching on left offset. Gives far better accuracy. Then I buy kudu single bevel left broadheads and it’s very accurate to 50 yards.
I've come to the same conclusions! Good video and very informative. What's even crazier in the larger the bevel edge, the more stabilization. I've been shooting the crafted archery aero 1 in 175 grain. 82.4 LB bow sending 525 grains at 285 fps. Even though it's a large fixed head, bullets at 60 yards. Keep digging! I'm interested to see the next video.
0:00 I definitely thought that squeaky door was an elk for a second…
Agreed..Kayuga's Pilot and Zot are super forgiving. The rotation is manifested with the ferrel design on the Zot.
Glad to see you back, amazing content as always and hope to see more coming out soon 🤙🏼📷
You can tell people miss you great job bud great explanation great job thank you buddy
Awesome video! I love it!
Thanks!
I’m glad you made this video. It may have been me being a moron but this whole time I thought single bevel just meant one side was sharp and the other completely dull and I couldn’t figure out how that would be helpful.
Haha, well we’ve got the basics covered now at least
How I see it. If you can get a broad head to hit in the same place as a field point then the broad head isn’t doing much to affect the flight of the arrow aside from how it exits the bow. If the broad head spins faster I’d think that it would affect arrows drop more so it could hit lower than the field point at further distance.
That’s just how it makes sense in my brain.
You're not wrong but you're missing something critical. All broadheads slow down the arrow, so when you tune the bow such that the field points fly the same, you are giving the arrow an offset trajectory.
Just the extra surface area alone will slow down the arrow, as well. In fact, compared to the forward speed of the arrow, the extra spin has very little effect on slowing it down. The surface area of the broadhead plays a bigger role is wasting speed.
The issue with accuracy is then there is not enough spin, which allows the front of the arrow to catch the air and fly in a random direction. Hope this helps!
Well I can tell you with 100% confidence that your arrow has begun to spin the moment it leaves the bow. Not 18" or 2 feet, instantly. This occurs with a bare shaft and a field point just due to the strings serving direction. So that theory is definitely not why it is more consistent.
My guess is that it is a consistent force vector on the arrow thet overpowers any irregularities in airpressure within the first 10 to 15 feet from the bow. Instead of the front of the arrow having to decide which direction it wants to go (like a knuckle ball), it acts on the air in one direction( like a fast ball). That's my theory.
I don't always agree with you but i like how you do things, keep it up
Decided that after changing front double bevel to single bevel a few yrs ago. Thought it was me. In fact I shoot single bevel at 80+ better than practice head. Again thought it was just me.
You realize you just proved something the Ranch Fairy has been preaching for quite a while with nock tuning and shooting your broadheads. The best part is it costs you nothing but 2 to 3 minutes of your time. I wonder how many would've blamed the broadhead and proceeded to shim cams, twist yolks, change top hats, adjust the technologies, without even giving a thought to spinning the nock?
Agreed. Super easy to do, just to see if it gets better.
Nock tuning is great when your bow has a decent tune on it. He did say bow was shooting almost perfect bullet hole.. Ranch fairy has also gave tuning advice to compound shooters to keep adding point weight till arrow bareshaft tunes. Great for trad guys but for a guy all about efficiency and science it’s a tad ironic.
A little bit of Ranch Fairy goes a long way.
Spine index before gluing fetching and you'll never have to knock tune plus, you'll be way more accurate
I would add that "nock tuning" is just finding the stiff point in your arrow. Either way you look at it, you are creating consistency because every arrows spine is coming out the same way. Before nock tuning, you're guessing where the stiff point in your arrow.
Thank's for your study on broadhead flight you might be on to something. I have been bowhunting for over 40 years. I remember not having as much flight problems with fixed blade broadheads 1-1/4" wide or narrower as long as your bow was squared up right I'm talking compound bows and your arrows were straight and the broadheads spun true you had pretty good flight with old launcher rests and alot of people shot with finger too. I really feel that when they introduced carbon arrows in the begining speed and durability was there only concern. If you shot an old xx75 easton arrow they were . 003 straightness and the walls of the arrow was almost perfect in thickness. They also payed attention to the grade of Aluminum which was 7075. My point is they flex consistent as long the bow was repeating properly. So know we got carbon and the flex rate between arrow vary alot more due to having an area on the arrow shaft that is thicker which will flex different unless each arrow is inspected you will experience a erratic flex that's why nock tuning is necessary to get fixed blades to be close to your field points. Target archers have to nock tune each arrow to get the flight they need to compete and sometimes even with the best arrows they get some in the dozen that will not turn well that is multiplied when you introduce a fixed blade broadhead to a hunting arrow. Although technology has done some great things in archery alot of people have become rich because of it. Everything unfortunately in todays world is dollar motivated and in my opinion the heavy double bevel fixed blade is a good example. I myself cannot afford this venture if you can yes it will be better but is it really necessary in most cases. I do understand the need for such quality systems for dangerous game animals. They require alot more durability and structure in the arrow and broadhead. In my opinion a well placed shot with a quality broadhead gets the job done cleanly and ethically on most big game animals as long as you have enough power in your setup. Thank's again for your input you got me thinking about the blades causing more spin. It's really great even at my age I'm still learning. Thank's Ralph
A lot in this comment and I appreciate you taking the time.
Ive always nock tuned bare shafts through paper to get them all close. Then fletched and nock tuned what minor differences the vanes made in paper. I've never had to broadhead tune any head ever in my life.
In my experience, if I can get a bare shaft hitting with my field points, my broad heads will too.
The ranch fairy is happy.
Good to have you back in my feed sir.
Interesting hypothesis. I want to question it in good faith discussion. While I think your reasoning of getting the arrow to spin quicker is sound, I wonder if the effort to get all arrow spines, all fletchings in the equivalent spot (in relation to spine weakness/stiffness - pick your poison), and broadhead indexing exactly the same across a dozen arrows is feasible. Then we have arrow squaring (nock end and pointy end) to contend with. I have to assume if your broadheads are seated slightly differently (because you didn't square each arrow the same) then you will have additional variation. I want to believe that a double bevel, three blade broadhead would be more forgiving as it is imparting less directional / torsional effects. But that's just what I think, let me know what you think.
My guess is if I had a dozen arrows that were 90% good verses 100% the limiting factor is still my shooting ability.
@@brandonmcdonald6121 We are all in the same boat there mate!
It's fun to tinker and play with out gear, it only makes us better archers/hunters. I enjoy your perspectives and trialing some of it myself. Cheers.
What kind of target is that?
Love the Diddly Squat Farm tshirt!
Wife got it for me while she was in England. Pretty Badass!
Single bevel continues to rotate inside the animal. Also, the torque will split bone. It is like a wood chisel. I'd love to get a set of single bevels. But, I'm too invested in double bevel. Stingers & Black Hornet Ser-Razors.
Absolutely nothing wrong with either of those double bevels. I do prefer the Stingers over the Hornets, but only because of the length to width ratio being better for penetration on the Stingers.
@@papaschuette That's true. I just want to try the Ser-Razors just because they look like a flying Battle Axe. LOL! I also, try to get them at least razorsharp.
@@timl8302 I would still go with the Buzzcut 4 blade or Killer Bee 4 blade. Both have sharper angles, leading to better penetration. The hornets are just too blunt of an angle for me.
I got them double bevel iron will wide 150’s!!! Badass head but damn they’re hard to get to fly straight! Id sell them if I could
Sounds like a tuning issue. Mine fly like field points with no broadhead tuning.
@@Michael.Outside idk what the deal is! I’ve tried everything. Shoots good at 20. 30 & beyond all over the place
@@aarongoeppner413you’re not alone. Looking at selling mine now. I’ve never been less confident in my accuracy in my life. I had my bow tuned and Lancaster Archery and tried every fletching, wrap, collar, insert, etc and they just do not want the fly straight. I will agree that some/most of it is me and my form but I haven’t taken a “perfect John Dudley form” shot since I started hunting.
@@nrango3574 man just sell them and get ya some qad exodus, trocars, or the new beast heads by bowmars
Brandon so are you shooting rip tko elite 300s with the 150grain iron will single bevel. Are you using the iron will collars too or whats ur entire aarow setup, weight and what fps you getting. Also i noticed and you mentioned your shooting the iron will right broadheads so does ur bow naturally spin arrows to the right. Asking all this cuz I shoot the rip tko elite 300 with hybrid vanes max helical to the left with iron will collar and my mathews setup naturally spins my arrows to the left. Anyways im thinking about adding the iron will left broadheads to my arrow setup for 2024 so wanting opinions on it now that u been shooting it for while. ABT
What are your thoughts on the VPA's? single bevel or double?
Sorta like a rail car drag racing.. torque the framing up and also twisting... with the veins sorta acting like the slicks.. sorta lol
another ? that came to mind, would less FOC help or hurt spin rate. does it take more fletch to spin a high FOC vs low FOC....
I think it actually changes. Off the shot the arrow flexes harder, so a larger vein right out the gate would be nice to have but once the arrow is in the air and stabilized a lighter weight, Smaller Vane would be fine since there’s more wait out front. We are definitely getting into the nitty-gritty. After seeing some of these results, I may just switch to a giant set of vanes even though they are super loud and get maximum stability.
I’m using the talk feature and it definitely used the wrong “wait… “ I hate spelling but I’m not that bad
Without getting crazy, no. The force applied to the arrow is the same, as long as the fletching is the same. It's more about the stiffness of the shaft, stiffness of the vane, and overall weight of the arrow. Heavier arrows take more fletching to spin up.
@@brandonmcdonald6121 True true. Per Seans note below, and, yes, this is a long rabbit hole, BUT, making the assumption the arrow doesnt change, the trend now is high(er) FOC, which i can agree with but need to weigh all factors. if you have to throw larger vanes on back to obtain stability, you then have to throw more weight up front to maintain FOC. i just havent ever seen or heard of a "study", nor am i an engineer, that analyzes FOC and spin (etc). just interesting with trends and inevitably consumer demand/marketing/etc. Having spent a tremendous amount of time and money over the last 3 months tinkering, just makes me laugh cuase my setup will kill anything on continent (which i knew before tinkering)...
Hey Brandon! It's Sam. I have a question about broadhead tuning. I do the Ranch Fairy process and then screw in my single bevel broad heads. They always hit right with my field point arrows. So I'm wondering what is the difference between the two?
Another argument…. Use bigger fletchings?
4 fletch with those fletchings, also try 3 and 4 with bigger vanes.
If the single bevel is already proving to be more accurate with your current setup, more fletching would just reinforce the single bevel being more efficient. You would likely hit a point where they are equally accurate, but at the unneeded cost of increased drag and wind drift.
My question now is, what is the difference between a single bevel 2-blade and a single bevel 3-blade? Would it also just further reinforce my argument above?
I had an interesting occurrence happen with my Mathews which clocks left naturally, at the time I was shooting 680g bigger vanes(can’t remember which one) and a 200 spine arrow with about 270’ish grains up front. So when I decided I wanted to shoot a faster arrow I dropped down to about 540 grains for reference I have a 31” draw and a 73 lbs set up, the arrow was now a 250 spine with a slightly shorter vane and different profile and roughly 175g point weight(tip and insert) it would actually sort of knuckle ball. So my thought were either the foc of the 680g arrow made it so it could overcome that natural clocking motion much easier or the vanes made a difference but I just thought it was really interesting that the “lighter” set up was sooooo much more finicky especially when it came to broadheads. Both set ups now with a left helical on the lighter arrow will both shoot field points and broadheads out 60 yards as a group. It just blew my mind how much of a difference it made.
Brandon, I’ve had good luck with full helical (right) fletching with my Iron Will SB 125’s.
@@GarrettLaPoltI prefer dabbelbebbel
Sail area. I would be very surprised if the single-bevel's relatively small bevel edge exerted more rotational force in air than the large vanes, though that would be highly dependent upon how much spiral your vanes were installed with and how wide/stiff the vanes are, yes? I think it could be argued that if the single-bevel exerted that much force, you would see a measurable drop in arrow velocity vs a similarly constructed double-bevel. I expect that situation inverts once the arrow hits a medium denser than air.
I'll grant you that it probably helps a measurable amount, meaning the rest is academic if you're not seeing radical changes in velocity or drift at longer ranges.
Between the bleeders, the blades and the fact that it’s steal so it doesn’t bend at all, I think the iron will specifically is catching a pretty decent amount of air.
What insert are you running with your 150g setup?
I've started hearing more about the DCA Super Sabre vanes that you're using. How have they been for you?
Solid choice. I don’t think they steer as strong as a blazer but they are definitely not as loud.
So i have 1 honest question that anyone is more than welcome to answer. I have wanted to use the Iron Will single bevel braodheads. A guy I know that owns a bowshop, told me to not waste my money on IronWills. If I want single bevel broadheads then I need to save about a 3rd of the cost and get Kudu 125g single bevel broadheads. I will say that they enter and come out with so much force. Almost every arrow hits the ground after a full pass through and shatters into multiple little 3 to 7 inch sections. Victory Vap Game elite 300. Total arrow weight is 487g
I’ve shot those before and they were great. For some reason I just like the IW stuff. I think the spin of the single bevel is more the point for this one as long as the surface area of the blade is similar
Ive shot Kudu's. They are awesome. My complaint about the Kudu's is that I sometimes have issues re-sharpening even with the stay sharp guide. Can't really sharpen the bleeders and they are really small. I find IW to be easier to sharpen even though its a harder steel. Bleeders on IW are wayyyy better than the Kudu. But cant go wrong with either head. If you're on a budget, buy the Kudu. If you can swing the IW, you wont be sorry. You're going to kill whatever you hit with both heads. It comes down to budget and what your preference is for sharpening.
@brandonmcdonald6121 thank you for taking the time and responding sir. I have been using the IW 125gr single and I won't go back to the Kudu lol. Kudu were nice but IW is noticeably better in my personal opinion.
@jons858 I completely agree now that I've been using the IW this season. Got a 6 pack and I am impressed.
Thais guy has some great slow mo of All kinds of arrow flights with different broadheads. 1nestly on TH-cam.
Hey Brandon what bow are you shooting. Vtm 34?
I dunno man..I built my arrows to my bow and every single head I’ve put on has flown the exact same. No “broadhead tuning” at all
Awesome! Makes sense to me.
Haha clarksons farm tee-shirt love it 🤘🤘🤣🤣
My wife bought it at their shop in England while she was there!
@@brandonmcdonald6121 awesome haha
lol, that is a tough one to believe, that a single bevel will shoot better than a double bevel, thats almost like saying a sharp broadhead will shoot better than a dull broadhead, i just dont believe it.
Cool video I need to get out shoot my broadheads but dam after getting of the roof from working here in NC I just can't bring myself to get out in the heat till the weekend lol..
I’m the same… it sucks right now
@IronWillOutfitters Can probably test this theory in a day.
Could you not test this by simply marking a vain or a line on the shaft and then shooting a target 3 feet from the bow and see which one rotates more in that distance?
Maybe you would be able to tell if there’s enough difference in rotation with a single bevel that it would pay to do more testing with a high speed camera.
Agree but might require using the cut angle at target entry point since the single bevel will rotate in the target too.
Ok im sorry but I've shot single bevel, and double bevel regardless what you shoot you always make sure your equipment is ready for the shot. Sounds like the bear suffered from poor judgment and preparation or bad shot placement.
a good test that maybe confirms your suspicions: th-cam.com/video/xPU_tfYRQEw/w-d-xo.html
The BH has a deliberate wing design though.
I've always believed that the aerodynamic ability of a 125gn target tip is equal to the aerodynamic ability of a 100gn broadhead. Add that concept to helical vanes and single bevel equals the G.O.A.T arrow
i agree with you, my 125gr field points shoot perfectly with my 100gr swhacker broadheads at distance, when i was shooting 100gr ramcats i had to use 150gr field points to match them at distance. i would never expect the same gr broadheads and field points to shoot perfectly together because the aerodynamics are totally different.
The only useful information I got from this video is that we have very similar taste in reality TV shows and apparel....
Hahaha! You make your own then. I’m subbed
@@brandonmcdonald6121 you miss understood... The broadhead information I completely agree with, you explain it well. Just saying we both apparently enjoy Jeremy Clarkson's adventure into farming...
How’s that target holding up to repetitive broadhead abuse?!?
Probably because they want to rotate. They are not a wing fighting rotation they are forcing rotation. This makes so much sense its nuts. Ithis is why I love this channel. You dick around with stuff and observe what matters and works. Not some blowhard that is closed minded.
I enjoy messing around and learning stuff. I think this is getting into the weeds pretty far but i think it’s interesting
@brandonmcdonald6121 No, because this actually helps people others keep talking about hiw it does in the animal and never do any thought into the actual shooting. Like you sorta mentioned if you can't hit what your aiming at then the animal walks away un harmed or injured not dead.
Tl;Dr: Gyroscopic stability from a single bevel is technically present but practically and likely statistically irrelevant. Confirmation bias is far more likely.
There is no way air pressure creates enough force on the bevels to cause a noticeable(read practical probably even measurable) difference compared to any other broadhead of the same shape/wieght with a different edge grind.
It's WAY more likely that you're running into confirmation bias. I especially suspect since you don't show any steps towards removing bias.
It’s for sure possible. Only way to really know is to remove the human element altogether. I’m a redneck tester. I don’t think I agree with you, but your fancy words tell me you might be smarter than me 🤓
try sticking something like a broadhead out a car window at 80 miles per hour and see for yourself how much air pressure there is. now think 200 miles per hour. also its not the gyroscopic moment that reduces deflection, its that deflection is spread through 360 degrees of rotation. lets take extremes so that its more obvious: when the arrow doesnt rotate and the aerodynamics pull it to the side - it deflects way off to that side. but when an arrow is pulling to the side but at the same time is rotating, its pulling to a different side every moment, thus greatly reducing the overall deflection.
Please buy the $10k Uber Slo-Mo camera.
The one I want is 18k… it’s so badass though!
Omg I liked you a lot better when you shot mathews
Haha! The v3x was too much poundage for that arrow. Dialed the Hoyt down to 68lbs Mathews is at 76.5
Why not just stick with the big mechanical? You can’t argue with your own results. With such high efficient bows, high quality arrow builds for me mechanicals are working better than ever.
I go back and forth. Should have used the biggest damn mechanical I could in Canada. I think it’ll be a thing I’ll always mess with over time. Back and forth. Heavy, light. Mechanical, fixed.
@@brandonmcdonald6121 I do the same thing. I have a drawer full of different heads. Arrows of many weights. The RIP VI with 150g Micro Hades with a TAW of 375 has beeen nothing short of amazing on pigs this year for me. Even questioned it for my elk set up.
@@deanbrantleywow, 375 grains on pigs! thats NOT ranch fairy approved (lol), what speed does it manage?
@@georgewashington1621 I’m not sure. Prime Inline 5. 70lbs, 29”dl. If I had to guess 300 or maybe alittle more. I’ve had them blow through so fast they split saplings behind them.
www.youtube.com/@1nestly
This guy has done some interesting slow mo filming.