The End is Past - Preterism with Roderick Edwards
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.พ. 2021
- Roderick Edwards book "About Preterism" 👇👇👇
www.amazon.com/About-Preteris...
Honest and direct presentation of the theological view and movement called Preterism. Preterism advocates that the end times occurred in the year AD70. Often called by different titles such as Covenant Eschatology, Full Preterism, or Hyper-Preterism; this view is unpacked for the reader not only to see but understand its adoption and effects.
Preterism, a Christian eschatological view, interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. This school of thought interprets the Book of Daniel as referring to events that happened from the 7th century BC until the first century AD, while seeing the prophecies of the Book of Revelation as events that happened in the first century AD. Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.
The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which is a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond". Adherents of preterism are known as preterists. Preterism teaches that either all (full preterism) or a majority (partial preterism) of the Olivet discourse had come to pass by AD 70.
Historically, preterists and non-preterists have generally agreed that the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar (1554-1613) wrote the first systematic preterist exposition of prophecy Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (published in 1614) during the Counter-Reformation.
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#Preterism #Eschatology #MythVision
Preterism makes more sense, the idea it was all supposed to happen back then. Other Christian ideas are much more insane.
I’m a preterist. Be glad to guest.
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
PRETERISTS take away from the words of the book of prophecy.
It makes me happy to see young people digging for the truth. Thank you for the video.
young?
#Preterism really is the last stop for people jumping from denomination to denomination as they look for the "truth" about the #endtimes
its the last step for people who have been burned in other denominations and then finally coming to the truth if they live long enough most die in denominations th-cam.com/video/J1NEhnPcAx8/w-d-xo.html
yup, and from there atheism...sadly preterists are oblivious to historisicm, the true interpretation
EVENTS LISTED DID COME TO PASS, FUNNY THING IS PRETERISTS BELIEVE ALL EVENTS MEANS 70 AD , WHEN THERE IS VERY MUCH PROPHECY AND TIME AFTER IT@@UmmmK822
The mudfloods, Tartaria, the orphan trains, antiquitech, architecture that just could not be built with a few cowboys and gold prospecters and horse and buggies and hammers, among other things, tie my new view of preterism altogether. Or at least some form of preterism. It just makes sense. There are a multitude of witnesses in the Bible, that tells us that Jesus would come back in THEIR lifetime, not a future one. Then after the millennial reign, the LITTLE SEASON would immediately commence, which is where we seem to be today. This is where the devil is released from the pit for a somewhat short time, and then he, the false prophet and the rest of them will be thrown into the lake of fire. This has not happened yet. Everything did not happen in 70 AD, that's just ridiculous. As far as I can tell, the world seems to be at around revelation 20, but yes, the actual tribulation spoken about in scripture seems to have ended long ago. I'm not married to this, but it sure seems to make a lot of sense. I mean we've seemed to have had added time to our timeline of around 800 to 850 years and someone needs to tell me WHY we, around the 1800's, all of the sudden had this massive influx of orphans !? As in MILLIONS of them, seemingly out of mid air ? I'm sure you've heard about the orphan trains. Where did they pop out of all of the sudden ? If you aren't correlating things with the orphan's, try harder lol, you'll understand what I'm getting at if you think about it.
Jesus is not coming back because He already fulfilled that prophesy in that generation, 2000 years ago, exactly as He said He would. Anyone still waiting for Jesus to come back today is a misinformed, poorly taught, a foolish person who believes that Jesus was a liar or a false prophet. ridicules.
It's strange that some chose atheism as the result to preterism, which shows they didn't understand the New Covenant. Just because the old Covenant ended doesn't mean there is no God. Sounds like some people just wanted an easy out.
They were NEVER truly born again. >>> John 10:26-29 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I recommend book 2 of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy ( the Restaurant at the End of the Universe ). The Restaurant exists in a Time Loop that allows you to watch the universe explode while you dine, and then flicks back in time so you can leave the restaurant. Every night, just before the universe explodes, Jesus appears and says : "Sorry, I'm late" and then the explosion.
this is worth listening to th-cam.com/video/J1NEhnPcAx8/w-d-xo.html
41:05 thru 42:09 THIS is what I've just about gotten around to, but y"all said it. Good call
Habakkuk: How long?
Jeremiah: 70 yrs
Daniel: Well, 70x7 yrs
John the Baptist: Almost!
Jesus in the synoptic Gospels: JUST ABOUT IN...
Paul: For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain... shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air... [1 Thes] Do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of menʼs hearts [1 Cor] It is just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution…these will pay the penalty…when He comes [2 Thes] The time has been shortened so that from now on both those who have wives should be as though they had none... These things were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come…[1 Cor] It is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed! The night is almost gone, and the day is at hand… The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. [Rom] ...Keep you until the day of Christ... the Lord is near [Phil]
Gospel of John: What near day of final judgment?
2 Peter: And don’t forget God’s time is different than our time.
this is worth listening to th-cam.com/video/J1NEhnPcAx8/w-d-xo.html
When I was a Christian I went from post millennial to partial preterism then to full blown preterism. Now I'm an atheist but ever since I studied preterism it gave me a really keen interest in 1st & 2nd century middle eastern history.
That seem to be the natural flow. Many have taken that same road, myself inclined.
I went from more of an amillennial position to PP and FP. Once I really dug into full preterism, tracing out all the implications I found the back door as well.
this is worth listening to th-cam.com/video/J1NEhnPcAx8/w-d-xo.html
Why did you end up an atheist?
No shame in that. You and many others followed the logic of full preterism. Audience relevancy & fulfillment limited to the 1st century. That you have an interest in history now is a plus!
It is coming to an end. The Millennium is history and we are in the Little Season that follows it. In scripture, we are at Revelation 20:7 and 2nd Esdras 11:32.
Analysis, proofs, dates, and timelines at my YT channel.
When I got into preterism a few years back, I scoured the internet for info and found a website called Planet Preterist. I read just about every discussion on that site and clearly remember the one where Roderick was calling others “Popes” for thinking we still needed pastors. Lol.
Lmao!
Yep, under preterism the Chief Shepherd has already come. The undershepherds already received their reward. No man need any longer teach their brother "know the lord". Thus any "preterist pastor" was behaving like a mini-pope. I mean, preterism is the epitome of private interpretation and outside the community thinking. If we are to believe all the elders/pastors/theologians under "futurism" weren't teaching/leading correctly, why should we trust some guy calling himself "pastor" simply because he is a preterist?
this is worth listening to th-cam.com/video/J1NEhnPcAx8/w-d-xo.html
Derek - would love to chat and eventually (soon) interview/podcast with you. We have a lot of overlap in our interests I suspect. Preterism/Gnosticism/etc.
I as a Preterist live in the spiritual Kingdom of God (Ro. 14:17) and Christ lives in me (Ga. 2:20), what a joy it is to be born again with the Spirit of Christ dwelling in my heart (Eph. 3:17-21).
Why would someone ever become an atheist if they were ever truly born again? A born again Christian has "Christ in you, the hope of glory" ( Col. 1:27; Ro. 8:9), they rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory (1 Pet. 1:8).
Romans 8:14-16 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
"Hast thou received the Holy Ghost?" If thou hast not, thou art not yet a Christian. For a Christian is a man that is "anointed with the Holy Ghost and with power." Thou art not yet made a partaker of pure religion and undefiled. Dost thou know what religion is? --that it is a participation of the divine nature; the life of God in the soul of man; Christ formed in the heart; "Christ in thee, the hope of glory;" happiness and holiness; heaven begun upon earth; "a kingdom of God within thee; not meat and drink," no outward thing; "but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost;" an everlasting kingdom brought into thy soul; a "peace of God that passeth all understanding;" a "joy unspeakable, and full of glory"?- Charles Wesley
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
PRETERISTS take away from the words of the book of prophecy.
Good vid and all but why the hell would you choose a one hour ad I couldn't just sleep and listen🤦🏾♂️🤷🏿♂️🙄💀
Apparently there is a bias with this TH-cam interview as my post has apparently been removed twice in a row. What have you to fear? Glad to discuss this very important subject openly. Come into the light then and I will gladly and graciously reason from scripture..what is there to fear except fear itself. Take care.
Is preterism considered a great falling away? I consider myself a partial preterist. What makes sense to me is that we're living Revelation 20. I could be wrong
So what happens if a Jewish temple is built? Does the prettiest view get thrown out the window?
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
PRETERISTS take away from the words of the book of prophecy.
I am curious how you guys understand Jesus' prophecy that not only would the temple be destroyed within a generation, but it would be done in the unusual way that not one stone would be left on another. Do you think Jesus got lucky on that one prophecy? Or did authors write that in after 70 AD happened? If authors wrote that in after the fact to deify Jesus, why didn't they make his entire prophecy appear fulfilled without the ambiguity of whether or not the things occurred or were yet to happen?
Correct, there is no sin bc there is no law that anyone is under!
God looks at only the heart now He does not see anything committed by the flesh. The greatest wickedness now from which all evil flows is when we deny what Jesus actually has done. When we do that that allows us to judge others flesh and find it inferior from that flows murders rapes thefts etc etc. We all share the same grave.
@@ricdavid7476 Where does Scripture teach that God ONLY looks at the heart NOW? Is this from ric david 3:16?
@@ricdavid7476 Why are you denying that Jesus ABOLISHED SIN? Hebrews 9:26
@@djtuese5940 I dont deny that i said that God no longer even sees the our flesh and that all wickedness and evil comes from denying what Christ has actually done because that allows people to judge others flesh and find it lacking. When we judge others flesh we can only do that from the heart. All wickedness ,murder , theft, rapes etc flow from this.
God only sees our heart because that is all that is left the flesh has been dealt with . Jesus Spirit did not die so He could not deal with our hearts so they are all that is left to be judged.
@@djtuese5940 If Christ has dealt with the flesh because His was put to death , then the flesh has been dealt with once and for all. What has not been dealt with is the spirit/heart because Jesus Spirit did not die He could not be the propitiation for our hearts . Our hearts are all that is left to be judged.
digging the shemagh
i agree that the old heavens and old earth passed away in ad 70, but, but, your missing something. new heavens an new earth where is righteousness comes after that. u missed it isa 65:17- 40 is on going world w/o end. u missed the biggest part.
I grew up Roman Catholic, so I have never heard of most of these things. I did however hear about the Fatima 3rd secret which talked about the secrets of Fatima and the other apparitions of The Blessed Virgin. Do you think you could do some shows on something like that. My own mother and Aunt often said the Blessed Virgin appeared to them.
@Mythvision Podcast
Would be interesting.
my family are roman catholic i am not this is worth listening to th-cam.com/video/J1NEhnPcAx8/w-d-xo.html
Revelation was written 96 CE, that is about 30 years AFTER the destruction of Jerusalem. Jesus returned sometime AFTER the destruction of Jerusalem. Even in 1 John 2 "It says We know we're in the last hour " , in fact it says last hour twice. Now the epistles were written 98 CE, also 30 years AFTER the destruction of Jerusalem. This means that Jerusalem being destroyed in 70 CE wasn't the end of the prophecies. Jesus returned and destroyed Satan's world and bound him. Satan was released in 1914 where he went out to mislead the nations once again.
If the Bible is a metaphorical book, then is it just coincidence that we can LOOK BACK and make these date stamps work? Preterism has to be new, in order to copy and paste the events AS IF they were prophecied about. I wonder if some Bible verses were added to bolster Preterism.
Ok, like which ones. How would you know like these were pasted in and not others?
Hyper Preterists have pirated Todd Dennis’s old site Preterist Archive, and renamed it PreteristArchives. So it’s ok to steal a guy’s intellectual property.. as well as posting copyrighted material without authors’ permission. True Hyper Preterist ethics for sure..
crazy!
Is Zoroastrianism dead? According to Wikipedia, though declining, Zoastrianism still has 110,000 to 120,000 adherents worldwide, the greater part in Iran, India and the USA.
it would be interesting to know which of the 45,000 bible believing denominations he landed in and why?
What I see is arguments, discord, and conflict. If I were a non-believer I'd want nothing to do with a faith that has been over for 2000 years! Yeah...
I think introducing preterism to a Christian is a good tool for deconversion. Learning about AD 70 as a Christian was mind blowing and preterism really made a lot of sense. But like you guys stated, eventually it comes to a dead end. If everything ended in 70, then what is left for us now? That was my story at least. Anyways, thanks for the convo guys I will check out the book 👍
That's a good insight and a GREAT idea (deconversion)
Why is it a dead end? To me it's a wonderful beginning. I can live life without the fear of the apocalypse mark of the beast and Satan.
Before Christ came into the world everyone who died went down into Sheol to await the resurrection. Now after Christ when we die we will be caught up and changed in the twinkling of an eye to live in heaven and be with the Lord.
That's what the gospel has always been about...restoring fellowship between God and man after Adam broke it.
Preterism is what has helped me to understand this. Futurism had me all confused and scared.
@@scullyfox4271 Preterism was a wonderful beginning for me as well, for the same reasons you stated. As I continued studying the texts, however, I came to the conclusion that if all the judgment prophecies concluded in 70 AD, then salvation also only pertained to those living in that time. The Bible doesn’t tell us “when we die we will be caught up and changed in the twinkling of an eye” as you state. It says “at the last trumpet 🎺 we will be caught up and changed”. If the last trumpet blew in 70 AD as preterism claims, then God’s elect were all changed and resurrected at that time. I don’t know of any passages in scripture that speak of an ongoing salvation program for anyone after the final judgment and the resurrection of the dead. Do you?
@@jasonk3168 Thank you for replying! When I first learned of preterism I was bitter and angry until I began to understand the scriptures better.
At the last trump the dead in Christ rise. I don't believe there was a physical rapture of the living at the last Trump.
Paul was explaing we shall not all sleep. Sleep meaning go down into Sheol and wait- this is death. After the last trump& resurrection when we die we will be caught up and changed- death is swallowed up in victory.
When a believer dies they go to heaven now. Before Christ came nobody could go to heaven. This is the gosple, this was the fulfillment of God's plan.
Isaiah 9:7
The increase of his government has no end....
Ephesians 2:7
In the ages to come he might show his exceeding riches....
Ephesians 3:21
Unto him be glory...throughout all ages world without end.
Luke 1:33 He shall reign forever and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
@@scullyfox4271 Been there. You will come to find that FP is nothing more than an attempt to save the faith. The implications of FP are irreconcilable. Everything had to be reinterpreted and allegorized to harmonize. Ask yourself this, if the kingdom came in 70 ad, how did it manifest? With the institutional church? Rampant heresies? Popes? Inquisition? Division and wars? How did no one near the time know that it happened? The inauguration of the new covenant age and kingdom brought about CENTURIES of darkness? Until, one day a couple christians reclaimed the truth of it? It's a far fetched and ridiculous notion imo.
Me: "Please disprove preterism, please disprove preterism."
Also me: SMH 🤦"What a joke."
have you heard of *PROPER PRETERISM?*
Then, it is not the end! Even the title is illogical. People are so stupid, ignorant, and screwed up to even dialogue with now!! I've noticed that some who become full Preterists end up abandoning the faith. No wonder, because all hope has been removed and we're stuck here in this cesspool world without a Canon, Church, or reason to go on!!
i had never heard of preterism before myth vision, but if the temple is gone and the rapture already happened , whoop de doo. what do we care now?
What do we care? How about building and advancing the kingdom, unless you are setting around waiting for a big awards banquet in the sky.
Hi Derek, I hope you excuse my comment, but every time I hear the word, "preterist", I actually hear the word, "Paederast", so when I hear someone say the the phrase, "full preterist" it means something totally different. It gives different meaning, when you mention modern church fathers.🤣🤣🤣
MR Ian Firth • “Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 2 Timothy 1:13.
I think of an id-iot as being without comprehension of who they are. They do not know their true id-entity. As a result other people’s judgments, and even their own carnal judgments, fill the vacuum and define who they are.
I believe that through the finished work and faith of Jesus Christ that the Spirit of God our Father is now in every member of humanity, past, present, and future. I completely understand that many do not realize this yet and will find this heretical!
God bless them!
However, I believe that this is the judgment of God on who you really are:
“This is my beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased.”
I believe this is true of myself and of all of humanity, therefore I think that you do well to follow Paul’s admonition and avoid non-scriptural definitions of who you are and what you believe - such unsound words are false expressions that lead to darkness, disputation and confusion. Others may call you many things, you may, in love, need to correct them but in grace and love you may need to bear with them.
Father will give you the words when you need them. Peace.
My mom told me she thinks of the word predator 😄
Derek... Paul CALLS the pagan nations (gentiles) "Israel according to the flesh."
Please give the reference 🙏
"Israel according to the flesh" is Paul's reference (in 1 Cor 10:18-22) to the Jews who are "partners in the altar" by partaking in the meat of animals sacrificed to God in Jerusalem, in contrast to his Gentile audience, who are quite obviously NOT "Israel according to the flesh" in the context. - www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Cor+10%3A14-22&version=NET
47:46 Derek's blunder "who are the lost sheep of the house of Israel? Jews!" You dismiss 2-house theology even though it's all over the Assyrian tablets AND the writings of Paul!!
Please give me the references to the Assyrian tablets.
The closest thing to 2 house theology from experts is Dr. Jason Staples and his book gets released on the 30th April.
Keep thinking critically, even of the 2 house theory.
@@MythVisionPodcast The University of Michigan published the "Royal Correspondence of the Assyrian Empire." Be prepared to pay some serious money unless it's online. Hell, it may even be in the public domain now. The first four volumes (I own the first three) document the Assyrian deportation of the House of Omri, the non-Judah Israelites circa 745 B.C., and then many Judahite cities later. The history recorded in the excavated tablets that is so close to the Biblical account that it staggers my imagination that people like Dr. Bowen don't seem to know or understand it.
I'll debate Roderick on the jew/gentile thing. He (and everyone else) is so predisposed to apply the modern semantic of "gentile" to a non-Jacob descendant, they don't understand that they are doing it.
Why is it every scholar in the world draws this conclusion about the terms "ethne/ethnos". th-cam.com/video/W8yiyewOobk/w-d-xo.html
@@MythVisionPodcast because they are relying on church history for the definition! The secular students of the Bible have been "churched" as well.
I'm ONLY interested in how contemporary writers during antiquity used those terms.
@@MythVisionPodcast Also, why do people not seem to notice when the translators selectively employ gentile vs. nation in the english bible when they arrive at the greek word ethnos? Take Luke 7:5 for instance. A group of judeans ask Jesus to intervene on behalf of a centurion. They say of him, "For he loves our nation, and built a synagogue for us."
So, i'm gonna show you how asinine it is to use the word gentile at all in english by employing the modern semantic of this word. Here's a centurion "gentile" who loves the jewish gentile. Now, I did nothing more than employ the term gentile to a non-judean (as all of these fooled scholars do). Then I translated the word ethnos from Luke 7:5 as "gentile" instead of "nation," and i did as arbitrarily as the translators of english bibles do. And therefore we have a gentile who loves the jewish gentile.
Derek you talk too much. The way you conduct the interview, you would think the interview is about you.
Not true. Ask God to reveal it too you and HE will. I am a preterist.
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
PRETERISTS take away from the words of the book of prophecy.
Oh great a discussion between a former so-called believer and a former preterist - what truth can be found here? No thanks.
If Jesus lied, them He cannot be God. Hebrews 6: 18.
The mark of the beast was the law.
Preterism gets a 10 at the Olympics of mental gymnastics lol...
Uhhh... not really. It's a consistent mode of hermeneutic.
@@jacksonmiller6679 Preterism is a cult, full of false interpretations, and loads of scriptural word salad.
They talk a lot.....a lot of nonsense
Jesus will return as the bible tells us, then the judgement.
@@MRFITTA I guess all the emphatic time statements about "this generation" and "before some standing here die" are just for dramatic effect?
So Jesus, Paul, John, James, Peter, and the writer of Hebrews were all fuckass retards who didn't know how to communicate time properly, amiright? Got it. Thanks for clearing it up.
you think? trying to fit one square square bible into 45,000 round holes is much more of a feat th-cam.com/video/J1NEhnPcAx8/w-d-xo.html
Did Jesus actually say those things? What I see he said is that he believed that Judaism had become self destructive. He played off the weaknesses of orthodoxy and heterodoxy ( hellenization of Judaism ) .
A reformation? This is cultism. A reformation is why the faith has this limitation of post Constantine orthodoxy when first century Christianity was OK.
Again we have the Polemics. I’m sorry but if you try to breath in a vacuum, of course air is going to be good. John is a BSing of Jesus, seriously, for all intents and purposes, John was character whose quasi-credentialed in Jesus connections. John was definitely anti-semetic, the ideology was second century Christianity. Jesus believed that he could reform Judaism. Johns revelation was excluded from many third century codices.
James Watt believed the end would come soon, no need to protect the environment.
Ok let’s be clear, false prophets are open ended in what logic they can present. The resurrection is not allegorical, it’s a misunderstanding of human grief and that process.
If you have a belief in Christianity that fall within the first and second century bounds of Christianity, screw the mainstream definition, they are brainwashed by 1800 years of orthodoxic confinement. Who are they, what are the credentials, what are their sources that back up their belief? See Bart Erhman.
What is the Christian community? They get stuck in both because they don’t know how to close the door on orthodoxy.
Tomas was not on the same page as James and a Paul. None of them are on the same page. Tomas appeals to Gnosticism, Paul appealed to pagan Greeks, James appealed to Jesus following Jews.
The doctrine of the resurrection follows the intermixing of Greek mythology and Jesus following a Judaism. Yes that is the core of Christianity.
I should point out that that Matthew and Luke bring forth the end days perspective and we’re written after the fall of the temple, the source of shared passages specific to these two gospels maY have been Q, which some argue was what Matthew actually conveyed (Matthew was not written by Matthew). But even if that is not the case one could claim that the throwing of James off the temple was the ‘abomination’ that caused Yahweh to leave the temple and allow for its destruction. . . So we are talking about a pre-Mark example of the fulfillment of prophesy. I actually do not believe Jesus said any such thing and these things were said by his distraught followers as some sort post-execution ill-sprite conversation.
Having said that, the set of events as that transpired were mildly eschatological. Judaic perception that Rome was somehow weak because there was a gap in governance in Judea, and because Nero’s despotic reign was coming to a tragic end, was an insufficient motive for a rational Jewish insurrection. Pontius pilot had alternatives he might have used instead of creating a martyr out of a two-bit reformist. Coupled together we have the collapse of Temple Judaism and Roman polytheism a couple hundred years later.
However, My Jewish colleagues have argued that by the first century Temple Judaism was more symbolic than it was critical, by that time sacrificing to an enshrined deity was a dated tradition for many Jews. (It followed 3300 years of near east traditions feeding temple idols) But also the end-state which is supported by partials was not actually created by belief, but by a rational political strategist who was trying a new technique to avoid the carving up the empire into indefensible states. This move was driven by barbarians overrunning the empire from the north. The Catholic Church was the beneficiary, and what followed was not an enlightened Jesus following polity, but the dark ages. Where does the enlightenment begin. . . In the corruption of the Medici and in the polygynous desires of a British king? Not very egalitarian or Christian in either case. Martin Luther movement is little more than a blip of Catholic insecurities and real time criticism of doctrinal obligations. The real reformation begins with the hugonauts, and all variety of anti-Big Religion movements that were virtually clueless about how to undue doctrinal issues. Calvinism for instance was anti-free will and but inadvertently aligns itself with deterministic atheism. These are all pretty much failed attempts to deal with a well crafted orthodoxy that buries early Christianity in a fog of historical uncertainty. That sounds cruel, but it’s the truth. James’s Jewish Jesus following are gone, gnostic Christianity in all its variances are blown to the four winds. We still live in an age in which Christianity is still hogtied by the beliefs held by a minority of Christians in the early second century.
Let me be specific, the doctrine of an resurrection of the body is superstition. The Gnostics did not believe this, James and Peter unlikely believed it, it was dubious that mark believed it. Jesus believed that he was somehow going to Reform Judaism. He did not believe he was going to die and somehow fix Judaism 1000 years later.
We can avoid a lot of these decoherant arguments if we simply focused on what Jesus likely said using critical source techniques and dice out the motivations of the contrived and embellished ideas by aligning them with contemporary non-Judean mythologies and beliefs. If Jesus said it, you believe it and it fits within a gentile Jesus following belief then its Christian. Forget the uninformed adherents to some contrived right doctrine.
What is an an anointment anyway. I should point out that during the Sumerian ceremonies of kingly anointment, either symbolically or actually, the king should anoint his member with the copious genital secretions of a temple priestess. This calling from Innana was extremely popular and likely contrived by semetic invaders, Ishtar being of western origin. There is nothing inherently sacred about these anointment traditions, they are nothing more than interesting popular superstitions. Beyond anointment and resurrection, both superstitions, what is Christianity? It’s an object of a quest for something, right?
If Jesus lived and was teaching...and..
If he was focused on teaching end days prophesy ...and...
If the gospels properly capsulated his teaching...and...
Then do we know that the prophecy was fulfilled
What is the probability, think it through. The basal premises may simply be false. Any premises based on those premises are then also false.
And Paul 😡 off a lot of Jews and he was the prime reason James was killed. Why do we adher to Pauline traditions. Paul says forthright that he was not following Jesus’s living teachings.
I have been to a Zoroastrian Temple and I celebrated their new year with them, it’s not dead.
Yes, please be critical, but then again the inspired hand of god is an omnipotent god writing is yet another fallacy that attracted adherants. It’s another form of idolatry.
Jews had already changed, read the a History of the Jews. There were Jews in India and Iberia that had never been to the temple. Jerusalem always created a rather zealous Zionism.
You don’t know why calling them minipopes is offensive, lol. Again, atheism is driven by the extreme polemics. The cause is exclusionary religious traditions that cannot be widely popular across many peoples. When you fly off the perch of your zealous religious traditions you are either going to have the strength to capture a more credible tradition or you are going to fall on a trajectory into atheism.
Tell me how the conspiracy plays on me? Eschatology for me is simply superstition. Sensationalism is rarely spiritual. Popularism plays on the reward centers of the brain.
Appeal to nutcasism as an argument for collegiate study? Really? How many aspects of the New Testament can Christians find to kill each other over . . . .save the money, there are a lot. What are exclusionary traditions?
Heresy
Do you believe this happened in the first century? Matthew 24:30-31: “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then ALL the peoples of the earth (NOT just Jerusalem) will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, (NOT just Jerusalem) from one end of the heavens to the other." IF this happened in the first century and ALL the peoples of the earth saw the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, I think it would be the most spectacular event in all of history and historical records around the entire world would be rife with reports of dumbfounded people in total shock at the most amazing sight ever! Notice it says ALL the people of the earth and not just those around Jerusalem. Or are you saying All the peoples of the earth is a metaphor for people around Jerusalem. Sorry, this did NOT happen in the first century Jerusalem. How do you make some things metaphors and others literal, like passages in Revelation that say certain events will happen soon, or quickly? Also, the word translated soon in Revelation (these things will soon happen) is according to Strong’s the Greek word “tachei” and it means: quickness, speed; hastily, immediately. So, it can be a reference to a particular event happening at a quick pace once it starts. Also in the Olivet Discourse in Matthew Jesus HIMSELF says, “Immediately after the distress of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light." This is the sign that Joel 2:31 says come right before the Day of the Lord. Peter says "The Day of the Lord comes as a thief, the heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will melt in fervent heat, and the earth and ALL its works will be laid bare." This ABSOLUTELY did not happen in the first century.
If I can join in and ask...Why do you think it did not happen?
The Bible is what the church and state did to the scriptures. Even the original scriptures were not meant to be more than supplemental. Any honest and productive Bible study needs to take into account that many unauthorized changes were made to the text. That could also distort the suggested timeline. Nothing is proven by the written Word in and of itself. The written word can only be sorted out and correctly understood in light of the living Word...the Spirit of our Creator and Messiah, Whose Name is Yahusha, which means Yah is salvation.
Who decides which of these unauthorized additions and omissions we should consider? Much of this sounds like Thomas Muntzers logic. This simply ends with each individual being his own "authorization" which means there is no "community of saints". The atheist is justified in rejecting it all.
@@roderickeauthor that's really not true. But those who want to keep people dependent on the church will stop that sort of rhetoric. We have the great commandments and the 10. It's not hard to see what's consistent and what's not, for anyone who's honest with themselves, and sincere in their quest for Truth. Much prayer, meditation, and soul searching is worthwhile. And even though most religious people don't believe it, Messiah really did send the Spirit to guide us directly, if we don't insist on following someone else instead.
Just be honest with yourself. Are you trusting and following the teaching of Messiah or not?
@@rickbluecloud531 sooooooo Jesus wasn't tell ONLY the 12 apostles that is was specifically THEM whom the Holy Spirit would guide? (John 16:13) See why pronouns are important? Your logical basically trashes the entire Bible. Why do I need a Bible if the Holy Spirit is going to guide me? And what do I do if the guidance I think I'm getting is in conflict with another person claiming to be guided by the Holy Spirit? Annnnnnnd this is one of the reason people don't want anything to do with YOUR religion because it is as subjective that the "most religious people" you accuse of not following Messiah.
@@roderickeauthor all thanks, honor, and praise to our Creator and Messiah.
The post-70 A.D. dating of the book of Revelation renders all preterist thought null and void. You can be a futurist and believe in the early date (Neronic) or late date for this book, but it's impossible to be a preterist and hold to the late (Domitianic) date.
The earliest Christian historian who recorded the church's knowledge of the Domitianic dating of Revelation was Hegessippus in 150 A.D. (around the time when most of those who would have known John had likely already died), and this continued to be the accepted unanimous view until about 4 centuries later with the Syriac Peshitta NT manuscript in which someone wrote that John was exiled under Nero. It is sometimes claimed that the Neronic dating is in the original, but this is impossible since the original lacked the book of Revelation. From what I've been able to gather, there is no source or reasoning given for this change in that 6th century manuscript. This is problematic at best, and lacks the authoritativeness that would be required to credibly make such a huge revision to what was commonly accepted and passed down from the end of the first century/beginning of the 2nd. The same can be said for the Muratorian Fragment, which is the 7th century copy of the 2nd century original, with no way to prove the Neronic dating was in the original. There is no record of any of the early church fathers holding to the early mid-60's date of Revelation. A fascinating glimpse into the early church fathers and what they believed on a variety of topics is in 'A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs', over 700 pages compiled by David Bercot.
In addition to Hegessippus (who, notably, wrote this some 30 years prior to Irenaeus), Tertullian , Eusebius, Jerome, Sulpicius Severus, and a number of other church fathers both before and not long after the council at Nicaea all confirm that John was exiled to Patmos by Domitian where he received Revelation. The lack of any dissenting view naming Nero in place of Domitian until the 6th century should give early-date advocates pause. This cannot be swept under the rug so easily. That's like if someone today claimed that Queen Elizabeth I of England had a child, when in fact we know that she died childless in 1603. It would not be seen as a credible claim because there's no evidence for it. Likewise, from John's death until the 6th century there passed over 400 years without a single claim of Nero exiling John to Patmos. Not one.
So at least most of the events of Revelation are still in our future (some view the messages to the churches as having already been strictly for them and completely fulfilled, while some view each church as symbolic for a different time period, and of course there could be room for double-fulfillment of most of those first 3 chapters).
There was a celebration on Patmos in 1995 commemorating 1900 years (approximately, as in 95 or 96 A.D.) since the Revelation Jesus gave to John.
Also, what other events in the 1st century A.D. are ever claimed as taking place 2 or 3 decades earlier (or later, for that matter)? With all of the accurate records kept during the Roman Empire era and surviving today, there is little room for such a vast difference being feasible. It's commonly believed that Jesus died around 30 or 33 A.D., Paul and Peter were martyred in the 60's, Nero lived from 37-68 A.D., etc. No one says Jesus died in 3 A.D. or 60 A.D., or that Peter and Paul were martyred in the 30's A.D. or 90's A.D., or that Nero actually reigned around the time of Jesus' ministry as recorded in the Gospels.
The majority of scholarship places John's writing of Revelation in the mid-90's, but somehow preterists think it's ok to go against the overwhelming consensus of the past 2000 years? Why isn't this the case with any other historical event from the same time period? The great fire of Rome took place for nearly a week during 64 A.D., but no one places it in 54 A.D. let alone 34 A.D. A powerful earthquake in 60 A.D. devastated Laodicea. And yet no one ever says that earthquake took place in 30 A.D. 30 years prior. I have yet to see any preterist respond to this fact with a shred of credibility. Domitian exiling John to Patmos was common knowledge among the ante-Nicene church. With the vast majority of evidence to the contrary, preterism literally rests on this single pillar of the dating of the book of Revelation. And, really, that is no pillar at all in light of the historicity of the late date.
this is worth listening to th-cam.com/video/J1NEhnPcAx8/w-d-xo.html
The overwhelming scholarships you mention ? which denominations are they in? Would they by any chance have a dog in the fight? As for the date of revelation being the most important pillar of preterism i dont hold that view i hold the view that the destruction of the temple and Jesus prophecies to His followers that they would be alive when He returned to be the single most important pillars, unless you consider Christ was a liar .
Research Philadelphia. It was called Flavia starting in AD69. Why would john write to a city that no longer existed?
@@allthingsbing1295 why should I answer you since you didn't even attempt to refute any of my points? Everything I've posted is fact. But here it is anyway: It was called Flavia for time during Vespasian's rule (which ended in 79 A.D.) but it was temporary did not overtake the name 'Philadelphia' entirely.
Since I answered you then you need to answer the following, in addition to my comment which you completely ignored above:
Preterism is also easily disproven based on its interpretation of the temple in Revelation (i.e. 'The 2nd temple was still standing since Revelation mentions a temple). When you look at all of the passages that speak of the temple, there's no possible way this is referring to the 2nd temple as preterism claims.
First off, it lacks sound reasoning because Ezekiel was also shown a temple starting in Ezekiel 40 after the first temple had already been destroyed, and a temple was being measured. It clearly wasn't the first temple since it was already destroyed, but applying the the preterist version of reasoning one would have to say that this vision had to have been received while the first temple still stood. This was shown to Ezekiel 25 years into captivity (ch 40, verse 1). He went into exile around 597 B.C., and the first temple was destroyed in 586 B.C.
Take an honest reading of Revelation 3:12, 7:15, 14:15, 14:17, 15:5, 16:1, 16:17.
He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.'- Rev 3:12
Is Jesus saying that those who overcome will literally become pillars in the 2nd temple? Obviously not. What about metaphoric pillars in the 2nd temple? And what about He shall go out no more? New Jerusalem? Clearly this is not set in the earthly Jerusalem.
'“These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.' from Rev 7:14-15
Those who went through the Great Tribulation are all here literally serving God round the clock in the 2nd temple in Jerusalem? Even if they were to all fit, which they wouldn't, you need to take into account just where they all come from as it says in verse 9.
'After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands' Rev 7:9
ALL nations, ALL tribes, ALL peoples, ALL languages. This was not in the first century A.D., because the Neronic persecution was centered in Rome. It did not extend even to all parts of the Roman Empire, let alone outside of it.
'And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.”' Rev 14:15
Was this angel literally coming out of the 2nd temple? Please look up each reference and study them. How were these definitely not referring to the 2nd temple but in Revelation 11 somehow it was? Have preterists even read chapter 11 in its entirety?
Rev 11:1 "Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the TEMPLE OF GOD, the altar, and those who worship there." (emphasis added)
and from Rev 11:19 "Then the TEMPLE OF GOD was opened IN HEAVEN, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple." (emphasis added again)
The scene was set in Heaven, not the earthly Jerusalem. The ark of the covenant was lost after the Babylonian destruction of the first temple in 586 A.D., which is enough all by itself to poke a giant hole through this preterist interpretation in Revelation! This was in no way, shape, or form referring to the 2nd temple in earthly Jerusalem. This is just one of many reasons why the preterist hermeneutic falls flat on its face.
@@JohnnyDoe1012 revelation 1:1.
Jesus lied! The end DIDN'T happen and didn't come back! 😱😱😱😱
YOU DONT KNOW YOUR BIBLE AT ALL !
Waste of tiny.
9:53
Romans 11: 28
The Bible is "anti-Semitic".
How so?
@@loleki737 I gave you a specific example. If you'd like another, how about John 8:44?
@@TempleoftheSon I imagine if you understood the context of the verses and what the Bible is about, you would be at peace. God called that line of semites to be His chosen people. His son was a semite!
Praise God that all of that is put behind us in Christ. I hope you know you're reconciled to God whether you're brown, black or white. God bless you.
@@loleki737 Osama bin Laden was a Semite.
@@loleki737 I understand the context. I understand Christ was a Semite and what the Bible is about. I'm not sure what you mean by "God called that line of semites to be His chosen people" unless you mean the specific line of semites that lead to His incarnation as Yeshuah Hamashiach. Because "His chosen people" are the people who believe in Yeshuah.
Dude, wasted my time!