The Idea of Israel In Second Temple Judaism - Dr. Jason Staples
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Jason Staples proposes a new paradigm regarding the biblical concept of Israel and how it was shaped by Jewish apocalyptic hopes for restoration after the Babylonian Exile. Challenging conventional assumptions about Israelite identity in antiquity, his argument is based on a close analysis of a vast corpus of biblical and other early Jewish literature and material evidence. Staples demonstrates that continued hopes for Israel's restoration in the context of diaspora and imperial domination remained central to Jewish conceptions of Israelite identity throughout the final centuries before Christianity and even into the early part of the Common Era. He also shows that Israelite identity was more diverse in antiquity than is typically appreciated in modern scholarship. His book lays the groundwork for a better understanding of the so-called 'parting of the ways' between Judaism and Christianity and how earliest Christianity itself grew out of hopes for Israel's restoration.
www.jasonstapl...
Check out his article on Romans 11:25 "All Israel"
www.jasonstaple...
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@Derek - Your having "real" scholars on the podcast is a breath of fresh air. Staples is fantastic.
Spiritual Israel?
Galatians chapter 3 verse 29 is commonly used among Christian churches to promote the idea of God dealing with a new Spiritual Israel, a term not found in the scripture, to replace a disobedient physical Israel. This however makes God a promise breaker since he was quite direct when he promised Abraham what would become of his seed.
Galatians 3:29
"And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
Here is the contrapositive or equivalent statement.
If you are not Abraham's seed, or not heirs according to the promise then you are not Christ's.
Sounds a bit different doesn't it? Both statements are logically equivalent. What most people ignore or forget to deal with is the phrase "according to the promise". What promise? To whom was it made and about whom was it made? Who are the heirs. Can one arbitrarily change who the heir is after the death of the will maker, in this case the Christ?
The promise refers back to Abraham and the promises made to him concerning his heirs. The heirs were the biological descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Spiritual Israel doesn’t exist in the promise to Abraham.
“When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”
Genesis 17:1,7-8 -
Welcome back Beiras,
As for these heirs, they don't exist in actual history. All you have is Samaratins and Jews. Josephus as other Jews Don't see Samaratins as Israelites, however the place he puts Israel (Northern tribes) is beyond the Euphrates. Are you suggesting that these heirs are literal Israelites that Paul is writing to? ✍Do you think these letters are epistolary fiction which are fictionally fulfilling this ingathering of Israelites or written to real people who were literally uncircumcised gentile Israelites UGI?
Either way, why would pagans join such a movement based off these texts? For Example 1 Clement wrote to the Corinthians and says, "God has made us an elect portion to himself". 1 Clem 29:1-2.
Why would pagans assume they were elect unless Staples is correctly seeing Paul is trying to fulfill the prophecy based on the fact that historically an influx of God-fearers and proselytizing pagans was happening all the time?
If the NT teaches that God could raise up children of Abraham from stones, how difficult would a new constitution of Israel "in Christ" be far fetched? It matches history and the texts.
@@MythVisionPodcast Hi Derek. Are you actually claiming that Assyria didn’t deport the northern kingdom of Israel in 721 BC? Is that your argument?
@@mikebeiras4945 Regarding Galatians 3.29 - the way Christian churches commonly use this verse has no bearing on what Paul actually said, which is clearly NOT what Israel Only advocates would have liked him to say. So they paraphrase Paul, trying to convince themselves and their followers that he actually means the exact opposite of what he clearly said; explaining why "it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham" (Gal 3.7) [...] because "if you are Christ’s, 'then' ('ἄρα' - AS A RESULT) you are Abraham’s offspring" (Gal 3.29). The meaning is plain enough for anyone who understands Greek to ascertain.
@@choreologychannel that makes zero sense. If you are Christ’s you become Abrahams descendant!? How so? Was the goal to become Abrahams descendant ? Lol
What Mike Beiras said above is spot on. Because of course the promise is laid out at the beginning in Genesis and there it is solely to Abrahams descendants. They are the heirs and nowhere does it ever imply that people would magically transform into Israelites.
You’re masters of adding a foreign twist to the story. Hate to say it mate
@@choreologychannel
Galatians 3:29
"And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
Here is the contrapositive or equivalent statement.
If you are not Abraham's seed, or not heirs according to the promise then you are not Christ's.
Sounds a bit different doesn't it? Both statements are logically equivalent. What most people ignore or forget to deal with is the phrase "according to the promise". What promise? To whom was it made and about whom was it made? Who are the heirs. Can one arbitrarily change who the heir is after the death of the will maker, in this case the Christ?
The promise refers back to Abraham and the promises made to him concerning his heirs. The heirs were the biological descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Spiritual Israel doesn’t exist in the promise to Abraham.
So do you guys belive that israelite/hebrew/judah is a religion or a nationality/etnicity?
Derek, I like yourself, love to learn and expand my thinking process. I don't have to agree to respect and appreciate. Thank you for these amazing interviews.👏💪👍❤
Gods of Sumeria were associated with civil states. Basic spiderform cities. These cities built colonial cities and trading quarters and of course the gods go with them.
So Paul is drawing a line in the sand between Pauline Christians and Ebionites. Hmmm.
I see a new upload of MythVision Podcast and click the like button already. Thanks man!
Too many ads though. Pinecreek has 1 or two max
Excellent interview! Dr. Staples affirms the identity of 'all Israel,' as I've understood for quite some time. Paul grasped the progression of Scripture that tells about the Messiah as the seed in whom Israel's identity is ultimately legitimate. Anyone and whosoever believes in Christ is true Israel ever since the cross.
Whenever God exiles a people for centuries, it means they were meant to assimilate and become 'not His People.' What does that say about post-70 AD to modern Jewry, who are admittedly descendants of proselytes? It is not ethnic folk but people associated in some way with reformed Judaism, which was never foreseen in Daniel's 70-week vision.
THE MIXED MULTITUDE THAT LEFT EGYPT WITH THE ISRAELITES NEVER ENTERED THE PROMISED LAND
“The mixed multitude who traveled with Israel but were never of Israel, caused most of the trouble along the way to the promised land. They were the authors of most of the apostasies and rebellions that delayed the entrance of Israel into the promised land forty years. The mixed multitude that came up with the Israelites from Egypt were a source of continual temptation and trouble. They were oftenest the ones to stir up strife, and were the first to complain, and they leavened the camp with their idolatrous practices and their murmurings against God. The mixed multitude were critical especially of the leadership of the Exodus movement. They were chronic complainers and nothing suited them. They were overthrown in the wilderness and not permitted to enter the promised land.”--Patriarchs and Prophet, p. 408
The first great apostasy of the Exodus movement was at Mount Sinai. Exodus 32:1-6. This apostasy took place while Moses was up in the Mount and originated with the mixed multitude. The ‘mixed multitude’ had been the first to indulge murmurings and impatience, and they were the leaders in the apostasy that followed.”-Patriarchs and Prophets, pp. 315, 316. Many of the mixed multitude and Israelites were killed as a result.
Complained of Diet. Numbers 11:4-6, 10
The mixed multitude did not like the health reform principles the Lord had given the Exodus movement and they lusted for the diet they had in Egypt. They reminded the Israelites of what they had to eat while in Egypt and they too began to complain of the food God had given them. “Again they began to clamor for flesh to eat. God purged many of the mixed multitude with a plague. Numbers 11:33-34 (NKJV) 33 But while the meat was still between their teeth, before it was chewed, the wrath of the LORD was aroused against the people, and the LORD struck the people with a very great plague. 34 So he called the name of that place Kibroth Hattaavah, because there they buried the people who had yielded to craving.
“The Exodus movement was purged by the shaking out of the rebels who made this mixed multitude. God cleansed the movement by shaking out the rebels. Not one of the rebels were permitted to enter Canaan. Num.14:22-24; 32:11-15. The final purging came at Baal-Peor on the banks of the Jordan when 24,000 of the mixed multitude were eliminated. See Num.25 and 26. “The judgments visited upon Israel for their sin at Shittim destroyed the survivors of the vast company, who, nearly forty years before, had incurred the sentence, ‘They shall surely die in the wilderness.’”-P.P.456.
Numbers 32:11-12 ‘Surely none of the men who came up from Egypt, from twenty years old and above, shall see the land of which I swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, because they have not wholly followed Me, 12 ‘except Caleb the son of Jephunneh, the Kenizzite, and Joshua the son of Nun, for they have wholly followed the LORD.’
The only people allowed into the Promised Land were Israelites 20 years and younger besides Caleb and Joshua. Moses himself was not allowed to enter the Promised Land. We never hear of the mixed multitude again.
Joshua 11:23
“So Joshua took the whole land, according to all that the LORD had said to Moses; and Joshua gave it as an inheritance to Israel according to their divisions by their tribes. Then the land rested from war.”
Are you familiar with the Jewish teachings on the Erev Rav(mixed multitude)?
Derek,how do you do this,man? I'm super-impressed with all this quality material you put out,almost daily,and sometimes twice daily.I'd really like to know.But keep on keeping on,dude.You have my attention.
This channel has really hit a stride of quality. I’m so glad to have all this information ready in these videos.
@@LordJagd Yep!
So basically all the apocalyptic prophesies are false prophesies, because the tribes can never be united. But we know that because tribal names disappear and new names are added.
Yes
The Jews are only from the tribe of Judah, which is one of the twelve tribes of Israel. Starting with the son of Jacob (Israel) called Judah.
The house of Judah becomes a thing when Israel splits into two kingdoms
The term Jew didn’t become a thing until after they returned from Babylon
So, since everything in the bible is myth and legend, and it wasn’t compiled until after the “Babylonian exile”, was the “second temple” in reality the first one? 🤔
I think scholars are pretty skeptical on "Solmon's" temple being built when it supposedly was, but it's pretty likely there was a temple in Jersualem at some point during the monarchy. The specific area where we'd want to look is just occupied by too much important stuff for us to dig in and look unfortunately
There's a temple at the city of Arad, just south of Jerusalem. Dates to the monarchy period. So I have no reason to doubt the capitol city probably would have had one too.
@@erimgard3128 Perhaps there are even Babylonian records of its destruction, like there are Roman records of the second one? 🤔
The Bible defines Israel as four things depending on context:
Yisrael the person (Jacob)
Yisrael the people
Yisrael the land
And Yisrael as in referring to the northern ten tribes that were scattered to the four corners of the earth
Isn’t it amazing how much energy people still put into killing each other over these texts? It is as if people in Cornwall would claim that Somerset is theirs and start actual bona fide wars over it, pulling the rest of the world into the mess. 😳🙄
the promise was to the fathers that THEIR children, tho scattered they the children would be remembered by their God and called back into fellowship with their God. The proof of them being of the chosen people was the sealing of the Holy Spirit. It is so simple, but the church has so-opted the story to include everybody it is just not in the story.
Deuteronomy 4:27,30-31 NASB
The LORD will scatter you among the peoples, and you will be left few in number among the nations where the LORD drives you. [30] When you are in distress and all these things have come upon you, in the latter days you will return to the LORD your God and listen to His voice. [31] For the LORD your God is a compassionate God; He will not fail you nor destroy you nor forget the covenant with your fathers which He swore to them.
Yet another excellent session !
Wish I would have written my book on this. I've been seeing this clearly for the last two years.. and this is part of what hebrew Roots is all about. So its not new
God said in the Torah that there is one law for the native born in the foreigner. Which means all of the Commandments are for everyone whoever lives hence the Torah, being a moral code of conduct of living life, and the Messiah told us how to walk it out because we are supposed to walk as he walked.
I say that to say that the reall Israel are those that choose to be in covenant with God, according to the covenants that he made with Israel, and to walk in the ways of God that he gave to Israel.
So, at the end of the age, inheritors of the kingdom of Israel, the new kingdom where Messiah is ruling it reigning, those inheritors are the ones that obeyed the covenant agreement with God, and that is subject to what the Bible says, in regards of who those people are, and Israel is the ones that keep the commandments of God, and believe in the Messiah’s testimony, they are true Israel, whether they were blood nativeborn, or a foreigner grafted in
Loved that he brought up the Syrio-Ephraimite War. No one talks about it lol
IO Wins again.
🤣
🙂
Roger, it is by far the most consistent in my opinion. All biases aside
What is IO?
@@MythVisionPodcast Derek I know this is an old comment but can you help me out please? What does IO stand for? I don't have a clue and neither does Google 😂
The belief that, a god , has promised a particular piece of land to a certain group of people ... is nonsensical , it’s farcical
And for that group of people to force people off their land , or kill people based on that belief ... is criminal
So says Mick Q. But where is his evidence that it is farcical?
@@jamotter8967
There isn’t a single shed of evidence that shows gods are anything more than construct of the human imagination.
If you sincerely believe there is “ invisible man” that created the universe, and promised a particular group of people a patch of land on a planet Among millions
You good sir , are off your rocker.
Or
Your religious
@@mickqQ . . . your ignorance is breathtaking. Got any other old atheist cannards you want to trot out?
@@jamotter8967
My ignorance ?
Are you convinced that there is essentially an invisible man that created the universe … and helps people writes books, and does some real estate deals on the side.
Have you a single shred of evidence that can show that your god is anything more than a construct of the human imagination… or will you point to the same things as people that are convinced other gods are real will point to?
If I were to knock on your front door and say “ a god has told me that I can have your house, now get out”
Would you get out ?
I doubt you would
To attack people in their homes based on bronze/iron age superstitions is nothing shit of criminal bordering on insanity
@@mickqQI have a really beautiful and involved painting on my wall and one day it was a blank canvas (that somehow, magically came from an accident of me farting my wife's delicious Brazilian beans) sitting on the floor of my garage. One day, I went out to my garage, and magically, accidentally, a bunch of colors just fell out of the sky and somehow, magically, mysteriously, by random chance, happened to so land on the canvas (with precision! It didn't even touch the concrete floor of my garage!) in such a form and in the fashion of a beautifully mountainous landscape with a sky that looks like the Aurora borealis!
I have no idea how this happened, but it's amazing that this actually happened and it's hanging on my wall today :) those crazy theists that are off their rocker don't seem to understand that the irreducibly complex cosmos came forth as an accident! Them silly willies!
The Bible needs a Princess Bride parody adaptation
It might just be the coup de gras to end Bible nonsense
This interview was sweet like sugar. Thank you MythVision!
*2 Kings **15:29** **_In the days of Pekah king of Israel came Tiglathpileser king of Assyria, and took Ijon, and Abelbethmaachah, and Janoah, and Kedesh, and Hazor, and Gilead, and Galilee, all the land of Naphtali, and carried them captive to Assyria._*
*John 8:48 **_the Jews said unto Jesus, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan_*
*Luke 10:37 **_He [the Samartan] that shewed mercy on him_*
*GOD the Babylonian deity of GOoD fortune & blessings was a Samaritan goD...*
*King David was always using GOD's accolades **_surely GOoDness & mercy..._*
You still using the King James Version?
@@Darisiabgal7573 *I AM. AM I*
So he is a student of Bart Ehrman and he is a believer😲😲
The tension around defining ethnic groups is timeless. Clearly, the OT MAIN message through all the begats is articulation of bloodlines. The NT hasn't a single begat and only makes perfunctory allusions to bloodlines. The bloodline vs customs tension exists elsewhere. An "ethnie" is usually defined by language, locale, and customs, not blood or so-called genetics.
So much stuff is twisted. Suez Canal = Zeus Backwards, and the Northern Entrance Port Said is also = Zeus Backwards. Don't believe anyone who dismisses this, because Sega has a game called Phantasy Star Universe, and they have a tech spell called Dizas and Sega was sneaky and put the Z in the middle for Zeus.
Absolutely bollocks.
And Dizus is an acronym for Jeezus, 👹
...are you suggesting that SEGA somehow has sway over events that happened thousands of years ago?
You're wrong though. Zeus is dead but Harry Potter is the Boy Who Lived. Accept his magical sacrifice as payment of ur tuition and Good Wizard will grant you admission to Hogwarts.
Impordent
Just ordered Jason’s book. ❤️
Awesome video.
I wrote this a year ago on the BC&H forum:
"What I've come up with is that Paul/Marcion saw himself as being transformed into a new Lawgiver by an angelic Isu Chrestus/Yashar--based on Ish and his transforming Jacob into Israel--during his revelation, which I've assessed to be the eclipse of 118 ad. In it he saw himself as dying and resurrecting, thus escaping and negating the Law because the Law only applies to those who have been born, naturally, and have died and remain dead, but he--Paul--was reborn, spiritually, outside of the Law. He also favoured the Noahide Laws as they are universal, and existed before Abraham and Moses. (And there was probably a textual reason, and he probably had his own translation of the Old Testament to prove his claims. Philo also speaks of Noah as being "exceptional" and the father of a new race of virtuous men, so Marcion was just saying that Noah was first and therefore more important.)
So in my mind the Marcionites (or at least the earliest tradition) didn't view the Law of Moses or YHWH as evil or malicious. Only that they were not applicable to those who had been baptized and partook in the same death and rebirth process that Paul did."
The more I think about this the more I'm convinced by it. For Paul "Jew" anyone who subscribes to the Mosaic Laws of YHWH, while "Israel" are Christians who have been transfigured into the new covenant of Christ/Isu. This explains what Justin says to Trypho about Christians being the true inheritors of Israel. (Conspicuous considering what Hadrian did to Judea).
118 AD?
@@tmjewel Stuart Waugh did a brilliant assessment on Marcion and the eclipse of 118 ad. I've come to different conclusions about how this is applicable to Christianity but comes to a similar place. Needless to say this is the terminus post quem for Christianity. Marcion is there, Peregrinus is there, Hadrian even issues coinage commemorating the eclipse, and it's possible that r. Akiva witnessed it as well.
10:18 thank you for making the distinction between Judah (Jews) and Israelites. Jews are effectively 1/12 of worldwide Jewry.
And technically the modern nation should be called Judah instead of Israel.
1/6. Judah + Benjamin = “Ioudaios” aka “Jews”.
I'm glad you're mentioning the tribe's of the Jews, (dan and Reuben, Judah and Levi, Zebulun and Issachar, Simeon and Naphtali, gad and Asher, Joseph and Benjamin, ) you mentioned Zion as being Jerusalem, I hadn't known that, and that was interesting, and you mentioned Judah as being the Jewish people, the question of whether you are a in fact, Jew, Jewish person, means to the Jewish people, today, that you're not an imposter, that you must be, in fact, a blood line, Jew, and not a convert.
@ 1:04:20 What Dr. Staples is referring to here is the concept of Bnei Adam and Bnei Lilith. Bnei Lilith are the children of Lilith and Samael. As the product of the union with a demon, their souls are not human so they are as the beasts, cattle.
Circumcision is for covenantal purposes. It’s a command for males to be circumcised in the 8th day.
I pissed off that I'm running out of memory to save all these awesome MythVision bids! 😅
do a show jesus as apollo
I am always amazed at the energy, time and effort people put in to FICTION.
This snide comment feels rather like a drive-by shooting.
Oh, dear! Surely Derek didn't like your piercing comment.
It's called literature and it's the stories we tell ourselves. Studying the humanities gives us insight into the human experience.
The Bible is emphatically an concretely true documented history with overwhelming evidence to back it up. The Bible is not fiction at all whatsoever.
Like the theory of evolution and the Big Bang theory that, according to scientific method, is the exact opposite of science... I defer to my house that simply built it self with materials that just accidentally showed up in exactly the right number with the exact right specs, engineered to support itself, with seemingly intelligent design but there was nothing but a freak accident (and a lot of money :)) that caused my house to be. One day perhaps my scientist friends and mathematicians might concoct some theorem that solves the puzzle! Maybe.. leaves me with more questions than it answers I guess.
This is a rather deep topic in biblical studies and I find it odd that you are on this video commenting like this without anything else to do?
My remark is snarky eh? It's not because I condone crude keyboard sparring, but I find it personally grievous when people cannot hold a different opinion or perspective than one another without being demeaning.
And you don't see anything in James about having to observe a sabbath or sabbaths. The emphasis on works, law of liberty, seem to be more about how you treat other people, especially the poor and less fortunate and widows. And not speaking evil about others. That is the evidence of the Pneuma. I just never have bought the idea that there's this great contradiction and chasm between the epistle of James and Galatians, in spite of perhaps a conflict between Judaizers and Paul at one time.
Why would james need to say to observe the sabbath? Or Paul even? The sabbath was such a normalcy in this time no one needed to be reminded of it in an epistle. I would argue this included predominantly non Jewish disciples as the prophetic oracles agree with as well, which Paul claims to have gotten his gospel from (Romans 1:2).
Christians try to use Isaiah 56 and Ezekiel 47 to show that non-Israelites, “strangers”, could join Israel. First of all, both of these scriptures are referring to the Jews returning home from the Babylonian captivity. Secondly, Israelites were referred to as “strangers” when they lived in a foreign land.
Exodus 2:22 “And she bore him (Moses) a son. He called his name Gershom, for he (Moses) said, “I have been a “stranger” in a foreign land.”
Thirdly, these “strangers” (Israelites) that returned with the Jews didn’t know what tribe they came from. They lost their heritage. Jeremiah 17:4 “And you, even yourself, Shall let go of your HERITAGE which I gave you; And I will cause you to serve your enemies In the land which you do not know; For you have kindled a fire in My anger which shall burn forever.”
Here’s the evidence that some of the returning “strangers” could not trace their lineage back to Israel even though they claimed to be Israelites. They didn’t have their genealogical records to prove what tribe they were from.
Ezra 2:59 “And these were the ones who came up from Tel Melah, Tel Harsha, Cherub, Addan, and Immer; but they could not identify their father’s house or their genealogy, and whether they were of Israel.”
It makes sense why God gave an inheritance to these strangers” (Israelites) otherwise they would have been sent back to Babylon just like the Israelites foreign wives and children (Neh 13:3).
Ezekiel 47:21-23 "Thus you shall divide this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 "It shall be that you will divide it by lot as an inheritance for yourselves, and for the STRANGERS who dwell among you and who bear children among you. They shall be to you as native-born among the children of Israel; they shall have an INHERITANCE with you among the tribes of Israel. 23 "And it shall be tha in whatever tribe the STRANGER dwells, there you shall give him his INHERITANCE," says the Lord GOD.”
2 Chronicles 6:32-33 clearly shows under the united monarchy of all 12 tribes with a prayer of Solomon that predictions about people who aren't Israelites would come to worship the God of Israel. This is clearly taking place before any dividing of the Monarchy into northern and Southern kingdoms. Arguing that these people are Israelites is just ridiculous.
32 “Foreigners who do not belong to your people Israel will come from a distant land because of your great reputation and your ability to accomplish mighty deeds; they will come and direct their prayers toward this temple. 33 Then listen from your heavenly dwelling place and answer all the prayers of the foreigners.Then all the nations of the earth will acknowledge your reputation, obey you as your people Israel do, and recognize that this temple I built belongs to you.
These kind of text are sprinkled all over the OT, however IO only harps on the regathering without looking at both ideas as Staples is suggesting.
@@MythVisionPodcast Wrong again my friend. You have a habit of ignoring texts that refute your arguments. As Dr. Stales mentioned, the new covenant was exclusively made with both houses of Israel not with non-Israelites. Secondly, the Holy Spirit was also exclusively promised to Israel. Where do you see non-Israelites in those promises?
Which is exactly why Staples view accounts for both. IO only tries to account the regathering and never any nations other than Israel playing any role. It also accounts for historical verisimilitude.
Please tell me what is 2 Chronicles 6:32-33 saying sir?
@@MythVisionPodcast You didn’t answer my question. Where do you see non-Israelites in the promise of the new covenant and the HS? Text please.
@@mikebeiras4945 you didn't answer my question what does 2 Chronicles 6:32-33 say? If your going to play this game then I can just remove your BS from this channel.
You're so sold on your position you can't even see other options. You were the one posting Staples as the poster child for IO, now tell me what 2 Chronicles 6:32-33 says or I will just ensure you don't have a place in my comments for this platform.
Thus was an interesting and informative interview. I'd like to hear more from Jason.
👍 _! !_
Great show. Over my head but fix to dive into more of this.
Fascinating and enlightening. Great show!
Paul belong to the Ministry of the Pharisees, Priests of the Temple that was destroyed in 70 A.D...Paul is a Pharisee under Gamaliel..He went on to established 7 churches also in Turkey, Greece, Malta and Rome..Paul churches are called Christians today..The other name of Christians or Christianity is Constantinism..Constantine like Paul received their visions while riding a Horse..No prophet of God received visions while mounted on a Horse..The early Followers of Jesus or Yesus, with Y from eartly Father Yoseph..were NOT called Christians but Ephesians, Ep-Hesus(the First Church in Judea.before 70A.D. Ep equals to Epicenter of Jesus Ministry, and Hesus as Jesus..The True title of the Book of Revelations (Written by John and founder of the 7th Church in the Philippines) The Title was Apo-Calyphso..2 Greek words, Apo meaning greet, great,great grand Father or outer parts of our planet, Calyphso is mythical islands called the 7000 islands!
There’s a reason why ‘Yisro’el’ & ‘Yehudah’ are both referr’d to as ‘Iudaeoi’ (Judeans, Jews) since when the Assyrian armies swoop’d down on the northern Kingdom of Yisro’el in 735-701 BCE and exil’d metalworkers, local shrine priests & nobility (basically any religio-political movers & shakers in the northern Kingdom who could make weapons or could read & write & therefore foster rebellion against Assyria etc) more than 15,000 Yisro’elites ran south into Judaea for their lives as refugees during this same period (735-701 BCE) -
NB recently un-cover’d archaeological evidence from this same period shew that the population around Jerusalem tripl’d then suddenly quintupl’d during this same period...coincidence ? I think not...)
So that whilst the upper classes of the 10-Lost tribes ended up in what is to-day present day Muslim Kurdistan the majority of the rest of the common Yisro’elite population (‘the poor of the land’ see Testament of Naphtali in the Dead Sea Scrolls (‘the salvation of Yisro’el (in the north) shall come from the Judaeans’ ie. in the south-mistranslated by the author of the 4th Gospel & the King James Editors as ‘as it is written, Salvation is from the Jews’- see ‘John’ chapter 4:22) ended up in Judah & mix’d into the general population -
This is in combination with the Assyrian government sending 15-20,000 law-Abiding Assyrian citizens into the northern territories of Yisro’el & Samaria (‘Shomeron’) who genetically over time mix’d in with the local Yisro’elite leftovers with their grey eyes & red hair which caus’d a later genetic rift between Judaeans in the South and Samaritans & Galilean in the north...
This genetic distinction between north & south in Palestine by the 1st Century is clearly reflected in the 4th Canonical Greek Gospel (‘according to Yohanon’, whoever he was...) see John 8:41 (‘WE (emphatic) were not born of illicit birth (‘mamzerim’) at least WE know who OUR father is-Avraham!’ which seems to be a racial swipe at Jesus coming from the Galilee (‘hagilgal hagoyyim = ‘circle of Gentiles’) -
Moreover there is also the problem of ‘the Elect of the Lost Sheep of the House of Yisro’el scatter’d among the Gentiles’ that Jesus himself (as the propos’d Meshia’q Yisro’el) felt needed to be ingather’d into ‘qol-Yisro’el’ proper (‘all Yisro’el’) before the Tiqqun (end of days ‘regeneration’ of the BarEnasha, ‘son of Man’ see AramDan 7:13-26)-See ‘Matthew’ ch 15:24 (whoever he was...) ‘Lady The BarEnasha (‘son of man’) was sent ONLY (Gk. ‘Monos’) to save the Lost Sheep of the House of Yisro’el scatter’d among the Gentiles...’ so we can see various emphases on ‘qol Yisro’el’ even in the Canonical New Testament ...
So did the Greeks and Romans just assume that everyone in the region must be Ioudaioi because the land of Judah was the most populated at the time?
@@LordJagd - yes, by the time the Greeks & Romans conquer’d Palestine the Iudaeoi were the dominant most populous segment of the ‘Jewish’ population (the Samaritans & Galileans also consider’d themselves to be ‘Torah Abiding sons of Avraham’ but did not refer to themselves as ‘Iudaioi’ in the way foreigners would have referr’d to anyone living in greater Yisro’el -so in the NT Canonical Greek gospels the term ‘Iudaeoi’ would refer to those persons living in & around Jerusalem aka Judeans-and English bibles typically muddy the waters by mistranslating ‘Iudaioi’ as ‘Jews’ rather than ‘Judaeans’ which confuses this complex issue immeasurably for modern English speaking ‘Christians’ ...
@@donaldgoodell7675 That makes so much sense. It also clarifies how the Gospel of John talks about the Iudaioi, which many scholars assumes is the result of Christians talking about Jewish people (with scholars making that tricky 'Jews = all Hebrews' assumption), but it's very clear that we're seeing a Galilaean Israelite in debate against the Judaean Israelites. I mean, in John and other Gospels we see a similar distinction between the Samaritans and Judaeans. Christ has no question that he comes from Abraham but it's clear as day the contrast between him and the ways of the Judaeans.
20:58
Isn't this exactly what the Bible says anyway? That they took on in assimilated the Israelite religion (at least part way)?
2Ki 17:24-29 KJV And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof. And so it was at the beginning of their dwelling there, that they feared not the LORD: therefore the LORD sent lions among them, which slew some of them. Wherefore they spake to the king of Assyria, saying, The nations which thou hast removed, and placed in the cities of Samaria, know not the manner of the God of the land: therefore he hath sent lions among them, and, behold, they slay them, because they know not the manner of the God of the land. Then the king of Assyria commanded, saying, Carry thither one of the priests whom ye brought from thence; and let them go and dwell there, and let him teach them the manner of the God of the land. Then one of the priests whom they had carried away from Samaria came and dwelt in Bethel, and taught them how they should fear the LORD. Howbeit every nation made gods of their own, and put them in the houses of the high places which the Samaritans had made, every nation in their cities wherein they dwelt.
- Sent from MySword
You lost me at 47:26. You are approaching this from an unbeliever's "myth perspective". So how can you rationalize the writers of the "myth" actually seeing the signs of the Spirit?
In Acts 2 Peter refers to Jews and Israel as one body. While I agree with some of what Dr. Staples is saying here, during the 1st century and maybe as far back as Ezra, the terms were used interchangeably.
Yeah, you got to have the end of your business chopped off to have that spirit.
Paul, inspecting men. “Meh, close enough, hey barnabas does he kind of look like a Samaritan”
“Err, if you say so”. Paul “Hey you got any coin, ok , you’re in”
“God ties it altogether”, lol, ok if god = Paul’s hallucinations then maybe.
If have to say this. Paul is trying to sell a short endtime scenario, his ethics are ‘you don’t need all your things so give it away so we can get more followers’. Secondarily, he gathered coin for the Jerusalem church so that the Jews would not hate him and the Jerusalem church as a surrogate for his basphemy.
Hopi Indians is actually that distinctive group. Or native American who else has been slaughtered and land stolen not given any rights and suffer
48:50 why couldn't Paul argue that the gentiles needed to be circumcised and that they would become Israelites? Why would circumcising the gentiles make them Jews?
Titus had no trouble building a coalition to take on Jerusalem in 70 AD. The northern tribes were only too happy to join up.
James Tabor (شيخنا ومولانا) recommended this guy so I'm all ears.
107:50- 108:20 Exactly! Just one reason IO can't see the forest for the trees.
Can u interview Paul Reisen, author of JEWISH POWER.
So Dr. Staples believes that the role of the Holy Spirit was changed from convicting the world of sin, righteousness and judgment to converting Pagans into Israelites by changing their DNA? What nonsense. And then to come to a conclusion that James and Peter were addressing these "NEW" converted Israelites in their letters by calling them the 12 tribes and elect exiles is just further nonsense. The Holy Spirit must have changed their living location as well as their DNA because James and Peter addressed their letters to Israelites in the 'diaspora". What "diaspora" were these Pagan converted Israelites in? This is an alien version of "replacement theology" where pagans are actually having their DNA changed to that of an Israelite.
John the Baptist told the Jews that if the god of Israel wanted he could raise up sons for Abraham from rocks. The god of Israel didn't raise up sons for Abraham from rocks because Abraham already had sons, and for the same reason the god of Israel did not have the Holy Spirit change the DNA of a bunch of pagans because the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the promises, and the patriarchs belonged to ISRAELITES IN THE FLESH, not a bunch of GMO Israelites. If anyone other than a PHD had come up with this nonsense it would have been called crankery.
Rand, these Israelites in the diaspora you speak of didn't exist unless they were Jews or Samaratins.
You think it's crazy, yet 1 Clementine is writing to the church in Corinth calling him and them elect. He wasn't an Israelite in any ethnic sense.
You can complain that replacement theology peeps it's head up, but that's exactly the way it went down right out the gate in history. Paul opens this door and a few generations later boom 💥. You have Pagans using the very ethnic identity markers which were used for Israelites in the OT. How do you think these pagans in the early church came to this conclusion? Do you really buy the complete fiction concept that Decosta is pitching in order to escape historical verisimilitude?
One day pagans found these fairy tale books and decided to join an already ended Christianity? That's nonsense! This position makes way more sense of the totality of data than the literal Israelite IO position.
@@MythVisionPodcast Whether I believe the story to be a fairy tale or every word the gospel truth makes no difference in how I read and understand the story to be a story about Israel and only Israel. Whether a bunch pf pagans high jacked the story after the story was written makes no difference in the original story, and whether Clement calls a bunch of pagan wanna-be Israelites "the elect" makes no difference either. Did Clement call them "the elect exiles in the diaspora"? No he didn't, but Peter did because Peter was writing to Israelites in the flesh, not a bunch genetically modified Israelites or wanna-be Israelites.
You say that "Israelites in the diaspora" did not exist in the first century except in the form of a Jew or a Samaritan. Where's your proof? References please. But once again totally irrelevant to the story because the story in the bible says they existed. No where in the bible does it state that pagans were going to be genetically modified into Israelites, and no the book of Hosea is not where it's prophesied that the House of Israel would disappear off the face of the earth and a bunch of genetically modified pagans would come back to papa gawd as the new and improved House of Israel. You do realize you can't RETURN if you were never there in the first place.
And while were on the subject of "no where in the bible does it state", no where in the bible does it state that the role of the Holy Spirit was to convert anyone to anything, especially changing the DNA of pagans into Israelites. That's not even twisting scripture, that's creating scripture. Dr. Staples seems to love to create new scripture while ignoring actual scripture such as Paul telling the Romans that Abraham was their forefather according to THE FLESH, and no we are not talking about GMO'd flesh, and no Paul did not have a mouse in his pocket when he used the pronoun "our". And since you and Dr. Staples love Galatians would you not agree that it would be totally asinine for Paul to tell a bunch of pagans who were never under the law that Jesus was born under the law to redeem those under the law or do you want to argue that not only were the pagans genetically modified into Israelites but that they were given genetically modified laws? And what about Paul telling the silly Galatians that until faith came we were held captive by the law, and once again no Paul did not have a Jewish mouse in his pocket.
Derek you may think that the "IO" perspective is wrong but do you realize how silly you look buying into Dr. Staples alien agenda replacement theology where pagans are converted into Israelites by having their DNA changed? And what's funny is it's "IO", Dr. Staples narrative is all about Israel but it's a genetically modified Israel. Come on dude, that's not even in the bible. You claim that "AIO" proponents run to the fairy tale defense yet you 're trying to balance myth, historical probability, what happened historically after the fact and yes maybe even a little fairy tale or fictional history throwed in there when trying to defeat "AIO". I read the bible for what it says void of what happened historically after the fact or conjuring up historical probabilities, but you see things differently. I get it, no hard feelings, we can agree to disagree. I enjoy your video content and I learn a lot, and I am open to be proved wrong about "AIO" but Dr. Staples and Dr. Carrier prove nothing to change my mind. I respect both of them but I disagree with them. Hey I disagreed with Jen Fishbourne when she made the video against "AIO" but when she was on your show and said the bible was "IO" and you said you would have to disagree with her, I fell out of my chair. That was good content right there.
Lets talk about this derek@mythvisionpodcast.com
I know you're sold on AIO and I would happily discuss this with you. If you're on Facebook contact me.
@@thrushman What is 'AIO'?
@@joecurran2811 "Ancient Israel Only" which is simply a perspective that when reading the bible that it was written by ancient Israelites, about ancient Israelites and for ancient Israelites, and it has nothing to do with anyone today especially not a bunch of wanna be Israelites who try and write themselves into the narrative of the NT fairytale story with some variation of replacement theology.
is there any way you can let your guest do most of the talking?
He does.
I'm praying the Lord is handling the situation over there🧙♂️👍
This was boring.