I hope you enjoy these scholarly discussions. I have several more videos with Joel Baden and many other scholars on MythVision's Patreon 👉 www.patreon.com/mythvision - Join us today. I hope you all have a wonderful 2023 New Year.
"the jig was up"? Literacy and sheer writing methods were extremely limited in the times of Jesus. Despite that the Gospels and other writings were recorded within the lifetime of the authors who witnessed the events.
What do you mean? Bible has old and new, testament. The old Testament was written hundreds of years before Jesus, and the new began to being written some years after Jesus
@douglashogg4848 The Iesous stories are greek-roman literature produced by greek author, written in greek and addressed to a greek audience of the second century.
"I was a fundamentalist", says a lot about you. . . . I actually knew everything he said but what I believe is that "the stories might have been altered, but the message and the theology is consistent (every book has some message that it wants to tell us and I take that as more important than the stories presented")
The sad thing imo is the countless hours I and other fundamentalists spent/spend in studying "The Word", going in depth into the "meaning" of a word, when in truth, we have no idea what the originals were like. I also like having looked into it, how translators really do steer translations of the Bible. The clueless adherents fervently exegeting the meaning of a verse, when a translator choose what words in their language to use. Yeah, you DON'T have "The Bible". You have a mess.
I liken it to a puzzle box with the picture on the front, but the pieces in the box don't match the picture. The church tells you there's this coherent message/story, but there isn't and you could work on the puzzle forever, but you'll never make the picture on the box.
Christians could avoid these problems by just" educating" the laity on textual criticism. Christian leaders leave this up to the critical sceptics. The Catholic NAB Bible contains footnotes to point out the findings of higher criticism.
To be fair this stuff is natural and normal, but the problem is they don't teach it. It's a can of worms for them to teach it because they'd be teaching not to take this stuff so seriously. And that's the final revelation that "god" has for us, atheists and agnostics are the true believers in the end, because we can see the faith for what it is: not much of value.
@@subcitizen2012 They scurred! But Catholics accept evolution,JEPD, Gospels late productions by non apostles community. Disputations about accepting canonical books in church history. The text of the Bible was " fluid" in transmission producing textual contradictions.
Another problem is what was included and what was left out. Who knows how many books were discarded by ancient translators. Not to mention who decided what to put in and what to leave out and why.
Why does that present a problem for you? Have you actually researched where the canon of biblical writings originated? And don't tell me, the council of Nicaea. Such an answer would simply display absolute ignorance. As for books of the Tanach, there are different categories, and there is good reason to believe general accepted use was established well prior to the time of Yeshua. New Testament scriptures were also determined very early by general usage and even described by early post-apostolic church fathers such as Clement in letters before most of the non-canonical books were written. And this well before the council of Nicaea, where this tradition was merely formalised. In short, in usage, some books contained in the new testament already refer to usage by the church of other books contained in this canon, and all these books were written and used prior to AD 90 at the latest. By the year 170, we have several mentions listing the majority of the texts today in use by Iranaeus, Polycarp, Hippolytus and the Muration canon (22 books). By AD 250, Origen had mentioned all books accepted today, and by AD 367, Athanasius formally listed all 27 books in the famous Festal letter.
@@deniss2 You are ignoring the fact that the debate about which books were canon went on for a long time and MANY books were discarded and suppressed by the Roman Empire (very successfully) until they were discovered again in the 20th Century. The earlier church "fathers" refer to these books many times. - that's why we know they were there. The debate went in long and hard and one side won (and others LOST) and it was absolutely defined in the 4th century and the suppression began.
@@GravityBoy72 Nope. As all the sources show, there are very few disputes about the canon. The other books you refer to were never considered in the same light by the church as a whole and not in general use. Some are even demonstrably late forgeries. It is no different than saying the books of the Macabees should be included. They are great history and interesting to read. One might even extract moral lessons or national traditions from them, but they are not and have never been seen in the same light as the canon. Read the other books. Particularly in our time, they are available. But you should not base doctrine or practice on something exclusively contained in them.
@@deniss2 It is not that easy. You need valid/authorize supervisor to do such work. This supervisor are People who met Jesus or atleast met His disciple or people who had chain/link leading them back to Jesus. Without it this work is nothing than anynomous hearsay. This people in Islam is called from how their connection to the prophet. 1) Sahabah (literally meaning the companion, People who met and follow the Prophet directly). Example of them was uthman the cousin and His close companion who later compile the Qur'an in to Uthmanic Codex. 2) Tabi'in (People who met and befriend or learn from companion of Prophet) 3) Tabi'i Tabiin (People who learn from the Tabi'in). This 3 distinct groups also has their own subgroup. It classifies the level of their knowledge and accuracy of it.
@@andanandan6061 @Andan Andan What are you trying to say by that? What is not as easy as what? If you are referring to the authority of the Qur'an only, then you are badly mistaken. None of the writers knew Muhammad. The first writings came from more than 300 years later. None of the editors were even from the same alleged general area where Muhammad lived. With only two direct mentions of his name, it is difficult to even prove that Muhammad lived. It is quite certain that Mecca as a city did not exist, nor was part of any trade routes at the time he allegedly lived there, that none of the prophets or bible characters lived or were buried there and that none of the early qibblas point to Mecca. In fact, the Qur'an doesn't have any complete or coherent orderly stories that follow each other. It was probably written in Aramaic and not Arabian. It simply does not compare to biblical books in any way. There is no extra textual, historical, geographical or archaeological support for any of it.
The joke I remember was a Priest had to search in the catacombs for some request and was later found bumping his head against a door post, clutching an ancient scroll, repeating to himself, "It says 'celebrate' not 'celibate'🥳
Little? So that’s why? 🤣🤣🤣 Na seriously, I don’t believe it was that word that provoked that response. I mean, in whom would it? Really. Whom? Did Derek say something else that got edited away?
I had a conversation with a woman on the bus yesterday about how I’m on a huge reading and learning kick. From geopolitics to physics. She said I’m wasting my time, and if I really want to learn, that I should read the Bible. That was the end of our conversation
Crazy huh? I find the same thing trying to have a conversation with religious people,. They're literally against learning anything real! And many are totally anti-science!
Who will atone for the killing of millions across the world in the name of God and Jesus .millions enslaved, natives dispossed of land and gold, culture and faith. This is21st century, AI BASED SOLUTION. LOGIC AND REASON ARE SCIENTIFIC.
I remember having a discussion with my mom about abortion and pointing passages in the bible where babies are killed, ripped out of women's womb and drinking a potion that can abort a child. She used the classic "your taking it out of context".
Progressives love using snips out of context to make their point. Christian: “the context of that is…” Critic: “I don’t want to hear context! It says this. I win! Teehee” Tangent: this is how the media enabled Trump Derangement Syndrome followed by a deranged Biden presidency. Good luck headline readers who hate Joe Rogan’s long form conversations. Enjoy being told what to think.
Not only is this channel helpful for my de-conversion but it also goes into the nuances of the Bible which I’m still interested in. Good work man! This channel is needed and your approach is awesome!
Great points ... there is NO "The Bible", rather there are many versions and many variations. Yet, most Christians seem to be unwilling to acknowledge that.
@@Coolguyallthetime2k OK. After watching a few of these "bible videos" I am amazed at how many ancient writings are not included in the bible. it raises the question of how the pick and choose was done to include what and what to exclude.
the people who transalted the book tampered with it bc the bible mentions the book of jasher i beleive thrice yet its nowehere to be found inside other than in older verisons like the ethiopian bible. Funny enough one of the books they took out 1 maccabees 3:12 prophecies them doing this. Also the fact the book was translated like over 5 times, you can only expect such "inconsistencies" Either way there is up to 4 fulfilled prophecies in the book that I've found, and sooner or later there will be even more in regards revelations. The Egyptians borrowed the name Amen from Amein the name attributed to the most High. It’s subtle and it’s done all the time especially in Catholicism and Islam. All religions are tainted in some way. However the belief so called christanity is stolen from kemet is false. I encourage you to watch these 2 videos off truthunedited yt channel “was christanity stolen from ancient Egypt” and “is Jesus a copy of Horus.” Do some study on it. There is way too much deception out there. Whatever you believe make sure you do comparative studies on it. And don’t just believe something bc it fits into your bubble of personal feelings. Sometimes the truth is hard to decipher when we’ve been told a lie from our parents as kids who grow up to believe. Most people are born into their religion or way of thinking and so it’s hard to remove shackles off something based in cunning deception. The Bible is the truth. You have to ask yourself many questions about it tho like why those who gained authority over it took out books such as the book of Jasher which is mentioned twice in the Old Testament such as in 2 Samuel 1:18. Not to mention there are already more than 4 prophetic chapters/verses I’ve studied in the Bible and some of the removed books that have been fulfilled. Unfortunately a lot of people don’t even open up the book bc they believe the false idea that Jesus is white which is a pretty sheepish belie to believe something based on visual imagery rather than deciphering the intent and going into the actual book to see for yourself all the African kingdoms mentioned in it like the Cushitic nations of Egypt, ethiopia(modern Sudan), new test Ethiopia, and Libya. To determine if the word is a prophecy just read the whole chapter in context. Some examples of fulfilled prophecies in the Bible are Rev 16:12, duet 28 in full, 1 Maccabees 3:12, 2nd Ezra’s 13:40-45 which speaks on the native Americans being one of the lost tries of Israel. Colombus said it Himself, as well does the Bible in the books they took out. However they did migrate from Africa. Read 2nd esdras 13:40-45. Colombus said himself this book was the reason why he heard and wanted to travel to the place Arsareth now known as America. You can research that, it’s also in the movie 1492 conquest of paradise. Those people were the native Americans. As well as revelations 2:9 regarding the people in Israel which call themselves Jews. So yea Kanye was half right although he seems to think those people are Jews bc they have converted not knowing that the vast majority of those people do not believe Jesus to be the messiah. Which like Muslims believe that calling Jesus the messiah is blasphemous bc he was only a prophet and Christian’s believe belittling Jesus the son of God to prophet level is also blasphemous. And considering that if you read both books from front to end and study the fact the Quran was write many years after the Bible you can see how Satan has his hands on world religion. The problem is people are enticed too easily by surface lvl things that feed what their subconscious craves in the moment rather than studying the full point of a matter.
Those of us who do sincere research can truly appreciate information like this.... consider yourself very fortunate to not be brainwashed by religious beliefs
@@ericscaillet2232 hmmm..... actually, there is something about us humans...call it curiosity or emptiness or both, which drives us to believe or do research....we are all looking for fulfillment
As a gamer and also working with eletronics of many sorts ive came across the "problems of translations" many times, when an chinese/indian is doing translations from english text to portuguese alot of stuff goes missing and/or are "out of context", for me, as tecnician i am able to figure things out but for a lay person it may not help. Recently ive beeing playing a game translated from english to portuguese and clearly theres a work of 2 translators ( at least) because in some parts of the game theres accurate translations and confused translations of the same word (the most clear example is the word "spring", the correct translation for the game is "mola" , but theres also "fonte" (spring of water). And as any native english speaker will notice, my text here has some weird/out of place word and grammar, thaats because im translating, on the fly, my thoughs from portuguese into english.
you can waste your time as you like it , for instance tv , football , internet , netflix , porn , video games , new age , thats all fantasy so whats the problem ?
Joel--and I'm sure he'd correct me and insist upon "DOCTOR Baden"--is an insufferably arrogant professor straight outta Central Casting. He treats Derek like a student: What's the first line of the Bible? Hit me. (Derek should have taken that literally!) Hmm, I looked in my JPS copy of The Holy Scriptures and--contra Joel--it reads virtually identical to the --gasp!-- KJV: "In the beginning God created heaven and earth" (Gen 1:1). "... and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket..." (Gen 22:13). So much for Judaism jettisoning creation ex nihilo and catching that typo the Christians missed. Joel Baden? What a maroon.
"The Hebrew is right"; well, when Moses talked to Pharaoh undoubtedly they communicated in Egyptian! So in the communication was originally not in Hebrew--tilt! This man is so full of baloney....
This guy talks like a Jesuit priest, trying to lead us away from what the King James Version of the bible says about salvation. The Bible is good enough the way it is in the King James version. Jesus said, that we can enter into the kingdom of God, and he tells us what we must do to accomplish that. Peter in Acts 2:38 makes it plain. Paul says they will be ever learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Don't listen to crackpots that sit around and only come up with criticisms of the text to influence us against the text and to cause us to withdraw our confidence in the word of God. The Bible says enough to take us to heaven, and I couldn't care less if the Ram was behind Abraham or in front of him.
Put Indiana Jones on the search for the original draft of the Bible. If anyone can find it, Professor Jones can. Only a fictional character can find a fictional item.
Less than 3 minutes in, and already listening to a problem with this. Go and watch inspiring philosophy's video talking about Genesis 1. Then you'll see that homedog can't be relied upon.
For those who insist the Bible is “the word of God”, this shows that it is really the word of a bunch of storytellers, monks, and medieval rulers. The story changes over time.
God is "killed" in the Ram story. Ram in the Bush The Amazing Mosaics of the 6th Century Bet Alfa Synagogue - TH-cam th-cam.com/video/VAm7BILnjyo/w-d-xo.html
The information is just translation of another story from another religion. The stories are always being retold. These guys know this. Basically the real Bible is very different but it's a description of the truth. Same as in old Judaism. God is always hidden behind the veil. Truth my friend's, is under your knosis.
Creation from Something -OK. So where did that something come from ? From itself or did God create that too? If it came from itself, then heaven and earth cd also hv come from itself .
Mr. Lambert the fact, that you used go fund me, destroys your credibility. When street beggars try to inform the working class of the correct way to live, makes me laugh MAO.
Facts are important…however, always searching but never arriving or never ending search will lead to missing the mark of a higher calling…it really comes down to “do you believe or not “ that Jesus was sent by the father, died for our sins and was raised again…if you believe this and accept him as your redeemer and saviour then you are on your way and in GOD’s hands.
No, your bible is the word of God if it's a mainstream translation. Guaranty those making this video deny Christ as God and that He fully paid for sin on the cross.
Derek, just wanna say thank thank thank you man. This video is video gold/platinum. I’ve always felt when I heard preachers/pastors preach stuff or when certain texts brought up, my main question was this: Am I being manipulated by the text, are they interpreting this with bias to sway a certain way? It was always at the back of my mind. Hearing this professor and I’ve heard others speak on how this very thing happens. It’s a convoluted mess IMO. But people who defend the KJV or any translations have no idea of the back room dealings that’s going on. Thanks again.
This is silly. It's fair to say translation is challenging and human bias is possible- which is why most biblical translation is done by groups of scholars and not individuals so that there can be correction for bias. And new findings in archaeology and linguistics are brought to the table for every new translation. In the introduction to the original King James Bible the translators declare that they expect changes will come over time as more is learned of the ancient languages and cultures. The Bible, both Old and New Testaments is perfectly reliable. To say "your bible is wrong" or "you're not reading the bible" is exaggeration to get clicks.
It's weird because up to this point, I already knew most of what's being said in the video, but sometimes, specially when addressing something that causes so much distress in any (former) christian, you need someone to spell things out for you before they really sink in. Wonderful video. Wonderfully explained 👏
None of this is new or very compelling. Scholars have known these issues for a long time. Why didn't you also interview someone who can provide an opposing view? Seems like you're just trying to sell t-shirts, not actually get to the truth.
This was very well done and the professor seems like someone who really does want to get at the truth of the issue. This means that it is a necessity to study all of the alternate Bibles that were written.
@@ring-tone278 The living god is the summer season of crop production and harvest. Typically this is seven months. The "dead god" is the winter season of hardship, hunger, cold, wet, sickness, darkness, and death. Abraham's killing of God (the Ram) symbols the end of the productive season (summer) and entering the non-productive season (winter). You can see the Ram (Aries constellation) in the night skies.
"...all of the alternate Bibles that were written." That seems to imply that there is one "the bible" and the others are alternate versions. I hope that is not the intent of the statement.
If you don’t believe anymore then fine , then go about your new life in peace and let others come to their own conclusions. Please don’t put doubt in the minds of Lifetime Bible believers who’ve studied the scriptures resulting in their hope and joy in life.
What was that whole "probe" thing about? Why did he get offended when you used the word probe? Is there something I don't know about contemporary language in which probe is seen as offensive?
It's just his straight-faced humor. I've watched enough of his lectures to know he doesn't pass up a joke if there's one to be made. He doesn't always nail it, but you gotta appreciate the effort. Lol
@@hannahs4779 I think there could be the possibility that Derek said something else that got edited out. Who would be that ... offended by the word probe; contextually here nonverbally clear not meant to be the “visitors” manner of probing?
Right off the bat this dude is wrong about creation. We Orthodox Jews DO believe in Creatio ex Nihilo. Nothing existed before creation, except Him. In Hebrew this is Yesh M'Ayin. Indeed, we believe nothing has any existence independent of His blessed Will, even now. Nor does His creation of Heaven and Earth constitute any change in Him, since from His perspective, nothing else exists.
@@felixrolandbolorunduro7282 When we die, we'll most likely realize nothing. Ignored Bible verses teach that: Ecclesiastes 9:5, Psalm 115:17. Too bad it's nothing but unverifiable speculation! 🗑
@@jon4574 Hell fire awaits you for sure, and you cannot wish it away. It is inevitable unless you repent of your sins and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour. John 3:16,18,36 KJV For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [36] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 8:23-24 KJV And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. [24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
@@felixrolandbolorunduro7282 I was an evangelical Christian for most of my life, so I'm familiar with these verses. Fortunately, neither you nor anyone can prove any of the threats of this religion or any other. If it does turn out to somehow be true that "God" exists and is an evil tyrant, then either I'll be saved because I was a sincere 100% convinced believer, or I won't because I "fell away from grace". Sadly, with this issue, the Bible can't agree with itself. About half of Christians believe that John 10:29 teaches Eternal Security (once saved always saved), and the other half believe that Hebrews 6:6 teaches that if you fall away once you're screwed. There's a strong case to be made for both, which is the problem. The Bible doesn't agree or teach clearly on this or dozens of important issues. It's a confusing and contradictory mess.
It's so great that the word about "The Word" is seeping out to the public. I believe the next generation will be far less under the thrall of the Bible thumpers because of this.
Dude, the Latin Vulgate was the first bible, obviously written in Latin, about 350-400 ad. The Wycliffe bible was the first bible to be translated and that happened about 1000 years later. Then we start to get all the different bible versions. Funny this dude doesn't mention that
I’ve used the JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh the most & I’ve taught some Hebrew to adults before. I’m so glad they brought up Genesis 1.1 early on. It boggle my mind that people can honestly think that only their translation is correct but the Hebrew text their Bible is rendered from is wrong!
@christochaney8302 I'm not talking about books, I'm talking about story. Even in a correct Chronological Bible, John 1:1 is the first scripture. My point is that all things are eventually explained if you read the *whole* story.
@@christo-chaney 🙄what I'm saying is the content in John 1:1 is what's before everything. You have to take off your religious goggles and just see The Truth.
Only the Shamans know the truth on this beautiful planet. As they are the only ones with infinite direct spiritual experiences, and spirit and truth can only be known by experience. Not by silly words on the mind.
Great information. I have never seen anyone speak so plainly, so matter of fact, so bluntly honest. A teacher is never more believable than when they admit that based on the evidence or lack thereof there is no way of knowing definitively. I respect that and appreciate the lack of their own ego getting in the way of the truth.
The Bible is a supernatural book. You are not thinking spiritually at all. 2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. The Word of God wasn't written by men. The men were only taking dictation from the Holy Spirit. The Word of God the we have in our own language is exactly the way the Holy Spirit interpreted it for our generation. There are no mistakes in the original or in the interpretation. But to read it, you also must have the Holy Spirit, because the words are spirit and truth. If you don't have His Spirit guiding you, none of it will make sense to you. The Word of God is supernatural, as is this creation. This creation wasn't created out of nothing. It was created out of God. When it says, "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.", it means exactly what it says. God created this physical heaven and earth out of that spiritual dimension that already existed. When it says Abraham looked behind, that is what happened, because that is the way the Holy Spirit interpreted it. He probably looked behind because that is where the voice seemed to him to come from. God divided up the nations and he divided up Israel. The scripture is referring to all human people, not angelic beings. De 32:7 ¶ Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee. 8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. 9 For the LORD'S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance. This is what you are missing. Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Lu 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
It's called textual criticism, a science. People devote their lives to it. This is why you need a pastor who is a serious scholar that studies and teaches daily able to read the Bible in the original languages, able to evaluate such claims and able to draw significant conclusions that clarify the possible discrepancies, which discrepancies are RARELY significant. REALLY!?!? Does anyone care whether Abraham looked up or looked behind to find a ram.....the IMPORTANCE IS THAT HE FOUND A RAM!!?! To be sure there are over 5000 variants in the NT, VERY FEW are of any theological significance. I have YET to discover the first pastor whose theology was so tainted by such. The REAL problem is that pastors don't study and teach daily. And oh BTW, the Isaiah copper scroll from Qumran almost matches perfect the very competent, scholastic choices that the written tradition of the Massoretes upheld...a discipline unmatched in literary history. We have many more witnesses and evidence, still be unearthed, that provides much greater clarity to the autograph. BUT AFTER ALL OF THIS IS SAID AND DONE>>>>>>>>to be sure, we don't make the Scriptures an icon come down from heaven. We are imperfect, therefore our Scriptures are imperfect, nonetheless we spiritually advance from their study , especially under the gift of Pastor Teacher , Eph 4 (all this clown is really saying is that he has no respect for the authority of the received text....when I doubt HE EVER contributed to it in any significant way regardless of his expertise, or lack therefore) I will tell you that the ONLY WAY you will EVER be convinced that the Scriptures are anything more than a hoax is through learning the content and not criticizing something YOU HAVEN'T EVEN READ!@!!
Baden is especially critical of those who would say what a correct reading or translation would be. He implies that vowel points are so ambiguous that the resulting translation is just an opinion. That is not the case. The vowels are not generally needed because the rules of Hebrew and the contexts exactly determine what the vowels should be. There is not enough real ambiguity in the texts to cast the extreme doubt on them that Baden does. The point is that Baden is driving a narrative based on unbelief, and not on the facts, which he is misrepresenting.
We do not need anyone leading us away from reading The Bible. These are small. Things. I am. Learning Hebrew. Just for the reason of reading the Hebrew Bible.
I read the Bible almost daily. I'm no longer a Christian, but I still continue to read. These are not small problems. I can get around the many many small problems. However, I can't get over the many many big problems. It's evident the Bible is errant. So how do you know what to trust. If there is one obvious error in a gospel, how can trust anything else it says. Christians can't just pick and choose what they want to believe. You can, but if you do, you've created your own gospel. We all have inadvertently created our own gospel. Then are we following the Bible or our own opinion?
The Book of Jeremiah is now one-seventh longer than the one that appears in some of the 2,000-year-old manuscripts known as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Some verses, including ones containing a prophecy about the seizure and return of Temple implements by Babylonian soldiers, appear to have been added after the events happened. See the AP article, "In Jerusalem, Scholars Trace Bibleʼs Evolution," by Matti Friedman, Aug. 12, 2011 Above is from this piece In Jerusalem, scholars trace Bibleʼs evolution MATTI FRIEDMAN - Associated Press (AP) August 12, 2011
We get a Hebrew translation by the Greek translated by Rome. These were altered by man to fit not Gods will but what fits into what men wanted. The Roman Catholic Church crucified humans because they even if they are Christians they don’t worship the same way. They altered people they “teach” a woman that was as much an apostles as the 11 men who followed Yeshua or Jesus
The Catholic Bible uses the Septuagint as its source, as did St Paul for all we know. Also, the Catholic Bible is fully annotated, which is important and beneficial because we're talking here about a collection of ancient texts written by many different authors, in different times, in different languages, all set in different historic contexts. Now, if on top of all that you're dealing with multiple translations to modern languages, each with its own problems, you ought to annotate this too. Only then can you tell the reader that, yes, you're reading the Bible, or as close to it as we can get given our present day understanding and knowledge. This is no different from how physicists present their results always providing the uncertainty and discussing in depth the methods used.
No way!!! physicist base ides on evidence, and update ideas when new better information is discovered , the scientific process is a self correcting mechanism, nothing at all like magical nonsense, and impossible absurdities, authored by ignorant primitives.
@@larryscarr3897 I referred to methodology of physics, not to the content. The methodology is that whenever you present a result, you also present the error bounds, then discuss in detail how both the result and the error estimate were obtained. It should be the same with the Bible. The annotations should discuss differences between sources, historical and archaeological context, and every other detail pertinent to the text. There are actually such editions, and, as I pointed out, the Catholic Bible gets pretty close.
@@larryscarr3897 I suspect you may know little about either physics or religion. Neither is physics so pure of metaphysics, cf. superstrings theory, nor is religion so removed from common sense. Present day Judaism, for example, does away with belief and faith, focusing instead on observances and practices, because, as they say, it is the latter that makes you a Jew, and being a Jew is all about community, tradition, and history-which are all good things.
@@zdzislawmeglicki2262 super string "theory" is a hypothesis, called a theory in common discussion, or to be understood by science communicators.. i don't want to explain the difference, or the why of the distinction.. suffice it to say there is one, and magic is stupid.
@@larryscarr3897 Magic "stupid?" My foot! I bet you have never faced Lord Voldemort. Anyhow, suffice to point out that J. K. Rowling earns between fifty and one hundred million dollars annually by peddling magic. It's anything but "stupid."
The author of the bible is the holy spirit, it does not matter how the words written. God knows that we are unperfect and we need to have faith in God.
@@thehomiedan6378 Common sense, God is a SPIRIT. The Spiritual and Physical are entirely two different realms. To communicate to you, he will need Physical agents like you.
@@felixrolandbolorunduro7282 Common sense??? Self evident truths are common sense... if I put my hand into a fire then I will feel pain so avoid doing so, and literally everyone on the planet knows this so it is common sense. A spirit can't be seen or experienced so that is the opposite of common sense. The actual truth is that common sense is nobody on Earth has ever presented evidence for the existence of god nor can anyone prove the supernatural claims found in the Bible such as god is a spirit are true, so that fact being an irrefutable truth is common sense. Any Christian that claims otherwise is knowingly lying... because if you could present the evidence then you would have already done so and would be the most famous individual known to mankind for proving the existence of a deity from some religious holy text. You people don't base arguments on logic or sound reasoning because it should have been common sense that your assertion is not representative of common sense. Plus, Jesus wasn't a spirit and the Bible claims he talked and interacted with people during his lifetime... so he could have written the Bible. So your argument that god needed humans to write the Bible isn't based on sound reasoning as Jesus could have done so.
@@unknownmovements Well Christianity is not a myth nor a figment of imagination of Christians. Every born again Christian has had an encounter with God, who dwells in them, and they Know it. He(God) speaks and communicates with them. Do you want to prove this? Repent of your sins and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour. Only after then will God reveal himself to you that he is real. This experience will put to rest once and for all the confusion and the back and forth arguments that you engage in.
Both of you are putting your presuppositions on display. You want the Bible to not be true because it reveals your sin and your need for a savior. There are thousands of manuscripts and when examined, the Bible is found to be the most well attested work in antiquity and we can trust our lives to what the Bible says. I dare you guys go debate someone like James White or Daniel Wallace. All the issues this professor brought up have been dealt with and would not hold up in debate.
My question to protestants: why would you trust an organisation like the catholic church that organised a series of books into one as the bible we know today? Why not include the other books they didn't include
I am sorry to say that since you are not a believer, all you do is continue looking for reasons not to believe. Don’t you think God gives understanding to those who honestly search the scriptures for wisdom and instruction in faith? The Spirit of God guides our reading and filters out what is written that is not true or have been introduced by man’s faulty understanding. I am a believer and I have been for 50 years, there is nothing that can derail my faith because I trust the God who put them there by inspiration and guidance of His Spirit.The Bible words have the power to transform because those words are alive and bear witness to our spirts that they are true, only faith can get us there.
If you are the truth seeker you have to compare every translation Me I prefer the 1905 translation A little bit clean I don't agree that reading a bible and you're not actually reading it? There are readers There are hearers Blessed are the readers and the hearers and fulfill whats written in it
The Ram (Aries constellation) sets headfirst. Ram in the Bush The Amazing Mosaics of the 6th Century Bet Alfa Synagogue - TH-cam th-cam.com/video/VAm7BILnjyo/w-d-xo.html
Does not matter if the texts scream out these contradictions in all there splendor.To someone deep in the rabbit hole inaccuracy and circular reasoning the only way to make this deceiving book make any sense.Like always they continue to ignore the lies and immorality the book full of.
The way I see it, the words may be different sometimes and mistakes can and have been made. Hebrew I'm sure, is a very complex and nuanced language that is very hard to translate 100% accurately into our modern English or other languages. And because every language is different and special in it's own way, sometimes the Hebrew meaning of something can be translated better in another language. For example, I have this pocket NT bible that's split into English NKJV and Swedish Bibel 2000 and it's really helped me to understand the *message*. The point is, it doesn't matter if something is worded differently as long as the meaning is there, as long as the message gets across. It doesn't matter if Abraham saw a ram or saw a ram behind him. The ram was there and Abraham saw it, that's all that matters.
Yeah but for example God setting the nations according to the sons of Israel (Masoretic text), the sons of God/gods (dead sea scrolls) or angels (Septuagint) is really significant in Deuteronomy 32. Another big one is whether the Hebrew patriarch swore by multiple gods in Genesis with his Aramean relative.
@@stevenv6463 Genesis specifies that Jacob’s household when he descended into Egypt numbered 70. Genesis 10 contains 70 names of nations or cities, a number that was symbolic of totality.
Jesus spoke Aramaic and his name was yeshua and he wasn't a Christian he was a Jew and there are old Bibles where they refer to God as Allah and Yeshua taught in Europe and India and he was also a Buddha which is a degree
The man who made Zeus so angry that he ordered the flood = Aquarius/Moses/Reuben. There is only one man amongst the 12 tribes/signs/constellations/months and that is Aquarius. At this very moment, Zeus is thundering in the overhead skies and Moses/Aquarius is dumping his water-pot on us. For thirty days we weep (rain) for Moses. His eyes never go dim, they are as bright as all the stars in Aquarius.
Don’t think that way please !! The guarantee is that it has been preserved from ancient times , and it WORKS. !! In people’s lives…. for generations ✝️✨
@@maxprescott9371 i mean it works as much as any devotional text can. It's just mostly unreliable for accuracy. And Christians today don't actually do what the Bible says, they do what their pastor says the Bible says
In the begining God created the Heavens and the earth depicts Space time and matter hence the Bible is totally correct nothing else comes close to the truth and reality of the Bible
I hope you enjoy these scholarly discussions. I have several more videos with Joel Baden and many other scholars on MythVision's Patreon 👉 www.patreon.com/mythvision - Join us today. I hope you all have a wonderful 2023 New Year.
No it isn't wrong! all of this nonsense is part of my divine plan!
@@PutsOnSneakers 🤓🤓🤓🤓
Read the Septuaginta for the Old Testament and the Majority Text for the New Testament and you have the best version you can find.
Hi Derek, why did he say to you ''please don't call it that'' after you said ''can I probe you a bit on this?'' I just wondered.
Wanna see the Ram in the Bush
The Amazing Mosaics of the 6th Century Bet Alfa Synagogue
th-cam.com/video/VAm7BILnjyo/w-d-xo.html
when I learned that the bible was not written during Jesus' time, the jig was up
That sums it up really well! 🖖
"the jig was up"? Literacy and sheer writing methods were extremely limited in the times of Jesus. Despite that the Gospels and other writings were recorded within the lifetime of the authors who witnessed the events.
@@jazmoko Youre right about that. If Im not mistaken, the materials Paul needed to write an epistle totaled roughly $2000 in todays economy.
@MegaMultiAnonymous why do you say that?
What do you mean? Bible has old and new, testament. The old Testament was written hundreds of years before Jesus, and the new began to being written some years after Jesus
Since the “original” Bible has never been found, even the Hebrew version may not be correct. The Bible probably came from an oral tradition.
@douglashogg4848 The Iesous stories are greek-roman literature produced by greek author, written in greek and addressed to a greek audience of the second century.
"I was a fundamentalist", says a lot about you.
.
.
.
I actually knew everything he said but what I believe is that "the stories might have been altered, but the message and the theology is consistent (every book has some message that it wants to tell us and I take that as more important than the stories presented")
The sad thing imo is the countless hours I and other fundamentalists spent/spend in studying "The Word", going in depth into the "meaning" of a word, when in truth, we have no idea what the originals were like. I also like having looked into it, how translators really do steer translations of the Bible. The clueless adherents fervently exegeting the meaning of a verse, when a translator choose what words in their language to use. Yeah, you DON'T have "The Bible". You have a mess.
I liken it to a puzzle box with the picture on the front, but the pieces in the box don't match the picture. The church tells you there's this coherent message/story, but there isn't and you could work on the puzzle forever, but you'll never make the picture on the box.
The plot holes and contradictions in the claims are easily spotted.
Christians could avoid these problems by just" educating" the laity on textual criticism. Christian leaders leave this up to the critical sceptics. The Catholic NAB Bible contains footnotes to point out the findings of higher criticism.
To be fair this stuff is natural and normal, but the problem is they don't teach it. It's a can of worms for them to teach it because they'd be teaching not to take this stuff so seriously. And that's the final revelation that "god" has for us, atheists and agnostics are the true believers in the end, because we can see the faith for what it is: not much of value.
@@subcitizen2012 They scurred! But Catholics accept evolution,JEPD, Gospels late productions by non apostles community. Disputations about accepting canonical books in church history. The text of the Bible was " fluid" in transmission producing textual contradictions.
"Speak to him as you would a child, who's been lied to..." ~Galaxy Quest
waow, where/what is that from?
Wasn't expecting words of wisdom from galaxy quest here . . . Or anywhere really.
Professor Baden is a bit anxious of being probed....lol
dude... visitors!
But which of his points are false?
Some people don’t have a sense of humor and Joel is one of those types. The word probe really triggered him
😅
@@marym9245 Same. I couldn't get a good read. No matter how much I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, that came off as weird.
Yeah, I was taken aback by his comment.
Yeah that was weird.. dude needs to relax
derek seemed to know it was an issue for him
"academics" have a strange/"hotty" sense of humor.
Another problem is what was included and what was left out. Who knows how many books were discarded by ancient translators. Not to mention who decided what to put in and what to leave out and why.
Why does that present a problem for you? Have you actually researched where the canon of biblical writings originated? And don't tell me, the council of Nicaea. Such an answer would simply display absolute ignorance.
As for books of the Tanach, there are different categories, and there is good reason to believe general accepted use was established well prior to the time of Yeshua.
New Testament scriptures were also determined very early by general usage and even described by early post-apostolic church fathers such as Clement in letters before most of the non-canonical books were written. And this well before the council of Nicaea, where this tradition was merely formalised.
In short, in usage, some books contained in the new testament already refer to usage by the church of other books contained in this canon, and all these books were written and used prior to AD 90 at the latest. By the year 170, we have several mentions listing the majority of the texts today in use by Iranaeus, Polycarp, Hippolytus and the Muration canon (22 books). By AD 250, Origen had mentioned all books accepted today, and by AD 367, Athanasius formally listed all 27 books in the famous Festal letter.
@@deniss2 You are ignoring the fact that the debate about which books were canon went on for a long time and MANY books were discarded and suppressed by the Roman Empire (very successfully) until they were discovered again in the 20th Century.
The earlier church "fathers" refer to these books many times. - that's why we know they were there. The debate went in long and hard and one side won (and others LOST) and it was absolutely defined in the 4th century and the suppression began.
@@GravityBoy72 Nope. As all the sources show, there are very few disputes about the canon. The other books you refer to were never considered in the same light by the church as a whole and not in general use. Some are even demonstrably late forgeries. It is no different than saying the books of the Macabees should be included. They are great history and interesting to read. One might even extract moral lessons or national traditions from them, but they are not and have never been seen in the same light as the canon. Read the other books. Particularly in our time, they are available. But you should not base doctrine or practice on something exclusively contained in them.
@@deniss2 It is not that easy. You need valid/authorize supervisor to do such work. This supervisor are People who met Jesus or atleast met His disciple or people who had chain/link leading them back to Jesus. Without it this work is nothing than anynomous hearsay. This people in Islam is called from how their connection to the prophet.
1) Sahabah (literally meaning the companion, People who met and follow the Prophet directly). Example of them was uthman the cousin and His close companion who later compile the Qur'an in to Uthmanic Codex.
2) Tabi'in (People who met and befriend or learn from companion of Prophet)
3) Tabi'i Tabiin (People who learn from the Tabi'in).
This 3 distinct groups also has their own subgroup. It classifies the level of their knowledge and accuracy of it.
@@andanandan6061 @Andan Andan What are you trying to say by that? What is not as easy as what? If you are referring to the authority of the Qur'an only, then you are badly mistaken. None of the writers knew Muhammad. The first writings came from more than 300 years later. None of the editors were even from the same alleged general area where Muhammad lived. With only two direct mentions of his name, it is difficult to even prove that Muhammad lived. It is quite certain that Mecca as a city did not exist, nor was part of any trade routes at the time he allegedly lived there, that none of the prophets or bible characters lived or were buried there and that none of the early qibblas point to Mecca. In fact, the Qur'an doesn't have any complete or coherent orderly stories that follow each other. It was probably written in Aramaic and not Arabian. It simply does not compare to biblical books in any way. There is no extra textual, historical, geographical or archaeological support for any of it.
Glad people are finally catching on…
People HAVE been catching on. Atheism is everywhere. Like the gov wants it to be.
finally finally
The joke I remember was a Priest had to search in the catacombs for some request and was later found bumping his head against a door post, clutching an ancient scroll, repeating to himself, "It says 'celebrate' not 'celibate'🥳
@@michaelmelamed9103 thanks 😊
I had forgotten that one. Thanks.
Lol, that's awesome!
Baden got a little teste when Lambert asked to probe him.
I noticed that ….. hmmmmmm 🤔
I noticed that ….. hmmmmmm 🤔
@R Boland Are you saying that Lambert put the Gideon bible back in the drawer out of view and then he and Baden just went for it?
Little? So that’s why? 🤣🤣🤣
Na seriously, I don’t believe it was that word that provoked that response. I mean, in whom would it? Really. Whom?
Did Derek say something else that got edited away?
@@spykezspykez7001 not sure ? Derek is remaining silent on the matter 🤔
"Can I probe you right n-"
Please don't call it that
lmao
ya it might upset the Catholics lmao
I had a conversation with a woman on the bus yesterday about how I’m on a huge reading and learning kick. From geopolitics to physics. She said I’m wasting my time, and if I really want to learn, that I should read the Bible. That was the end of our conversation
I would have asked her which one, to confidently suggest this.
Sooo, what are you watching this video for then?
It's kind of hilarious that she just assumed that there was no Bible research in there too 🤦♂️
Crazy huh? I find the same thing trying to have a conversation with religious people,. They're literally against learning anything real! And many are totally anti-science!
You are wasting your time.
The Bible is not the Word of God. Anything that man can change is not the word of god.
I remember this interview from a year or so ago. What's his beef with the word "probed"?
I actually thought it was a joke 😅
Alien visitors?
@@trumpetmaster83 It was! I love the banter that goes on between Derek and guests! Very funny! Made me laugh!
@@c.guydubois8270 totally. Visitors.
Thou shalt not probe 😭
Why didn't he like that? Did I miss something?
@@ToblerX I also didnt get it 😂 pls explain
Who will atone for the killing of millions across the world in the name of God and Jesus .millions enslaved, natives dispossed of land and gold, culture and faith. This is21st century, AI BASED SOLUTION. LOGIC AND REASON ARE SCIENTIFIC.
I remember having a discussion with my mom about abortion and pointing passages in the bible where babies are killed, ripped out of women's womb and drinking a potion that can abort a child. She used the classic "your taking it out of context".
M'fers were bout to abort jesus until an angel stopped em lmao
@@Laocoon283 Would've been a better story.
@@ickebins6948 would have been a shorter story idk about better
@Marijan Ćorluka poison drink: Num 5:21, 27-28.
Pregnant woman: Hosea 13:16, Isaiah 13:15-18.
Progressives love using snips out of context to make their point.
Christian: “the context of that is…”
Critic: “I don’t want to hear context! It says this. I win! Teehee”
Tangent: this is how the media enabled Trump Derangement Syndrome followed by a deranged Biden presidency. Good luck headline readers who hate Joe Rogan’s long form conversations. Enjoy being told what to think.
Fascinating.
All the more reason to regard that book as a work of ancient mythical literature...nothing more.
Precisely,and correct however the message being conveyed is the knowledge to be taken from it,not it's technical and physical identity .
Still...when the "inerrant word of God" has typos, that tells you all you need to know!
Not only is this channel helpful for my de-conversion but it also goes into the nuances of the Bible which I’m still interested in. Good work man! This channel is needed and your approach is awesome!
I like your term deconversion. Sounds like a drug detoxification treatment. I am continually going through it.
Great points ... there is NO "The Bible", rather there are many versions and many variations. Yet, most Christians seem to be unwilling to acknowledge that.
@@coreyham3753 agreed. I should probably call it a conglomerate of Christian writings.
@@Coolguyallthetime2k OK. After watching a few of these "bible videos" I am amazed at how many ancient writings are not included in the bible. it raises the question of how the pick and choose was done to include what and what to exclude.
the people who transalted the book tampered with it bc the bible mentions the book of jasher i beleive thrice yet its nowehere to be found inside other than in older verisons like the ethiopian bible. Funny enough one of the books they took out 1 maccabees 3:12 prophecies them doing this. Also the fact the book was translated like over 5 times, you can only expect such "inconsistencies" Either way there is up to 4 fulfilled prophecies in the book that I've found, and sooner or later there will be even more in regards revelations.
The Egyptians borrowed the name Amen from Amein the name attributed to the most High. It’s subtle and it’s done all the time especially in Catholicism and Islam. All religions are tainted in some way. However the belief so called christanity is stolen from kemet is false. I encourage you to watch these 2 videos off truthunedited yt channel “was christanity stolen from ancient Egypt” and “is Jesus a copy of Horus.” Do some study on it. There is way too much deception out there. Whatever you believe make sure you do comparative studies on it. And don’t just believe something bc it fits into your bubble of personal feelings. Sometimes the truth is hard to decipher when we’ve been told a lie from our parents as kids who grow up to believe. Most people are born into their religion or way of thinking and so it’s hard to remove shackles off something based in cunning deception. The Bible is the truth. You have to ask yourself many questions about it tho like why those who gained authority over it took out books such as the book of Jasher which is mentioned twice in the Old Testament such as in 2 Samuel 1:18. Not to mention there are already more than 4 prophetic chapters/verses I’ve studied in the Bible and some of the removed books that have been fulfilled. Unfortunately a lot of people don’t even open up the book bc they believe the false idea that Jesus is white which is a pretty sheepish belie to believe something based on visual imagery rather than deciphering the intent and going into the actual book to see for yourself all the African kingdoms mentioned in it like the Cushitic nations of Egypt, ethiopia(modern Sudan), new test Ethiopia, and Libya. To determine if the word is a prophecy just read the whole chapter in context. Some examples of fulfilled prophecies in the Bible are Rev 16:12, duet 28 in full, 1 Maccabees 3:12, 2nd Ezra’s 13:40-45 which speaks on the native Americans being one of the lost tries of Israel. Colombus said it Himself, as well does the Bible in the books they took out. However they did migrate from Africa. Read 2nd esdras 13:40-45. Colombus said himself this book was the reason why he heard and wanted to travel to the place Arsareth now known as America. You can research that, it’s also in the movie 1492 conquest of paradise. Those people were the native Americans. As well as revelations 2:9 regarding the people in Israel which call themselves Jews. So yea Kanye was half right although he seems to think those people are Jews bc they have converted not knowing that the vast majority of those people do not believe Jesus to be the messiah. Which like Muslims believe that calling Jesus the messiah is blasphemous bc he was only a prophet and Christian’s believe belittling Jesus the son of God to prophet level is also blasphemous. And considering that if you read both books from front to end and study the fact the Quran was write many years after the Bible you can see how Satan has his hands on world religion. The problem is people are enticed too easily by surface lvl things that feed what their subconscious craves in the moment rather than studying the full point of a matter.
Those of us who do sincere research can truly appreciate information like this.... consider yourself very fortunate to not be brainwashed by religious beliefs
Only fools could be brainwashed freely , besides brainwashing being a specific process having a certain aim ,which is hardly the case here
@@ericscaillet2232 hmmm..... actually, there is something about us humans...call it curiosity or emptiness or both, which drives us to believe or do research....we are all looking for fulfillment
“ Let me probe you real quick. Please don’t call it that “ 😅😅😅
He was pissed. Then he stopped buddy and told him to be patient lol
Hi I was wondering why Joel took exception to this comment ? Any feedback appreciated
lol I felt Joel came off really rude. Like oh well excuse me for prefacing my question politely but with words that somehow offend you…
I have no idea why he said that. I too am confused.
As a gamer and also working with eletronics of many sorts ive came across the "problems of translations" many times, when an chinese/indian is doing translations from english text to portuguese alot of stuff goes missing and/or are "out of context", for me, as tecnician i am able to figure things out but for a lay person it may not help.
Recently ive beeing playing a game translated from english to portuguese and clearly theres a work of 2 translators ( at least) because in some parts of the game theres accurate translations and confused translations of the same word (the most clear example is the word "spring", the correct translation for the game is "mola" , but theres also "fonte" (spring of water).
And as any native english speaker will notice, my text here has some weird/out of place word and grammar, thaats because im translating, on the fly, my thoughs from portuguese into english.
So much time wasted on fantasy
you can waste your time as you like it , for instance tv , football , internet , netflix , porn , video games , new age , thats all fantasy so whats the problem ?
This is incredible.
the bible is about the message of JEZUS. LOVE.SURRENDERING.
"Can I probe you" lol
“Please don’t call it that.”
I’m not really sure the context.
What’s “that”? Was something edited out?
@@DroknarsForge4198 like I’ve watched SouthPark too, I wonder if there was another word said that got edited out.
Yeah, I don't understand why the 3:11 comment wasn't received well. I guess it could have negative connations.
Just curious, but why is Dr. Bowen so sensitive to "probing?"
IF GODS WORD WAS SSSOO IMPORTANT TO MANKIND WHY IS CONTRADICTORY CONFUSED AND REDACTED, WHEN HE COULD WRITE IT IN SKY,PLEASE 😢
may be u had to search about the True god words
Because all scriptures before the Quran were temporary. Read the Quran, the last, final, and unedited word of God to all mankind.
Joel--and I'm sure he'd correct me and insist upon "DOCTOR Baden"--is an insufferably arrogant professor straight outta Central Casting. He treats Derek like a student: What's the first line of the Bible? Hit me. (Derek should have taken that literally!) Hmm, I looked in my JPS copy of The Holy Scriptures and--contra Joel--it reads virtually identical to the --gasp!-- KJV: "In the beginning God created heaven and earth" (Gen 1:1). "... and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket..." (Gen 22:13). So much for Judaism jettisoning creation ex nihilo and catching that typo the Christians missed. Joel Baden? What a maroon.
Great video, thanks for putting this out there. Thanks for introducing me to Baden.
"The Hebrew is right"; well, when Moses talked to Pharaoh undoubtedly they communicated in Egyptian! So in the communication was originally not in Hebrew--tilt! This man is so full of baloney....
did you know the jeremiah was actually a bullfrog? fascinating stuff once you get away from king james!
you might not believe this, but he was actually a good friend of mine
Don’t be so rediculos !!
Yeah, he drank my wine like the hottie next door, and left me dry.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
LOL
This guy talks like a Jesuit priest, trying to lead us away from what the King James Version of the bible says about salvation. The Bible is good enough the way it is in the King James version. Jesus said, that we can enter into the kingdom of God, and he tells us what we must do to accomplish that. Peter in Acts 2:38 makes it plain. Paul says they will be ever learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Don't listen to crackpots that sit around and only come up with criticisms of the text to influence us against the text and to cause us to withdraw our confidence in the word of God. The Bible says enough to take us to heaven, and I couldn't care less if the Ram was behind Abraham or in front of him.
Put Indiana Jones on the search for the original draft of the Bible. If anyone can find it, Professor Jones can. Only a fictional character can find a fictional item.
Less than 3 minutes in, and already listening to a problem with this. Go and watch inspiring philosophy's video talking about Genesis 1. Then you'll see that homedog can't be relied upon.
For those who insist the Bible is “the word of God”, this shows that it is really the word of a bunch of storytellers, monks, and medieval rulers. The story changes over time.
God is "killed" in the Ram story.
Ram in the Bush
The Amazing Mosaics of the 6th Century Bet Alfa Synagogue - TH-cam
th-cam.com/video/VAm7BILnjyo/w-d-xo.html
11th c ad text
yes but compare with Dead Sea Scrolls
for authenticity
The information is just translation of another story from another religion. The stories are always being retold. These guys know this. Basically the real Bible is very different but it's a description of the truth. Same as in old Judaism. God is always hidden behind the veil. Truth my friend's, is under your knosis.
Creation from Something -OK.
So where did that something come from ?
From itself or did God create that too?
If it came from itself, then heaven
and earth cd also hv come from
itself .
Point is….. best not to read any of it. My personal choice. So over it.
ok , but why you watched this video ?
@@Donkaestner2634 Because I’m angry. Because lies eat up the first half of my life.
@@AppalachianAlchemy You're angry because you found yourself in the bible as a sinner then you got mad because you got exposed?!
@@dassolosyndikat5113 ✌️
Facts.
Mr. Lambert the fact, that you used go fund me, destroys your credibility. When street beggars try to inform the working class of the correct way to live, makes me laugh MAO.
Facts are important…however, always searching but never arriving or never ending search will lead to missing the mark of a higher calling…it really comes down to “do you believe or not “ that Jesus was sent by the father, died for our sins and was raised again…if you believe this and accept him as your redeemer and saviour then you are on your way and in GOD’s hands.
No, your bible is the word of God if it's a mainstream translation. Guaranty those making this video deny Christ as God and that He fully paid for sin on the cross.
Derek, just wanna say thank thank thank you man.
This video is video gold/platinum. I’ve always felt when I heard preachers/pastors preach stuff or when certain texts brought up, my main question was this: Am I being manipulated by the text, are they interpreting this with bias to sway a certain way? It was always at the back of my mind.
Hearing this professor and I’ve heard others speak on how this very thing happens. It’s a convoluted mess IMO.
But people who defend the KJV or any translations have no idea of the back room dealings that’s going on.
Thanks again.
This is silly. It's fair to say translation is challenging and human bias is possible- which is why most biblical translation is done by groups of scholars and not individuals so that there can be correction for bias. And new findings in archaeology and linguistics are brought to the table for every new translation. In the introduction to the original King James Bible the translators declare that they expect changes will come over time as more is learned of the ancient languages and cultures. The Bible, both Old and New Testaments is perfectly reliable. To say "your bible is wrong" or "you're not reading the bible" is exaggeration to get clicks.
He also told them a parable: “Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? Luke 6:39.
Yep .... this happens when you don't have the holy spirit in you ..
@@michaela723 Well i didnt fall into a pit for my entire life...
Has nothing to do with having a "holy spirit" in me :D
Its about knowing the truth and the way . Only those who see the truth can lead others to salvation.
@@khoango2337 And who tells you what is the "truth" TM ? The bible?
@@ickebins6948 You wouldn't believe me if I told you
WOW thank now I know Gods bible is true for sure listen to this, your intellect on this really help my insight on His word.
It's weird because up to this point, I already knew most of what's being said in the video, but sometimes, specially when addressing something that causes so much distress in any (former) christian, you need someone to spell things out for you before they really sink in. Wonderful video. Wonderfully explained 👏
I knew of it all and it didn't bother me in the least. I don't know why it should.
None of this is new or very compelling. Scholars have known these issues for a long time. Why didn't you also interview someone who can provide an opposing view? Seems like you're just trying to sell t-shirts, not actually get to the truth.
This was very well done and the professor seems like someone who really does want to get at the truth of the issue. This means that it is a necessity to study all of the alternate Bibles that were written.
Mark: And how many people do you think would actually do that to study all of the alternate bibles when most do not even want to read one?
@@ring-tone278
The living god is the summer season of crop production and harvest. Typically this is seven months. The "dead god" is the winter season of hardship, hunger, cold, wet, sickness, darkness, and death.
Abraham's killing of God (the Ram) symbols the end of the productive season (summer) and entering the non-productive season (winter).
You can see the Ram (Aries constellation) in the night skies.
mmmmm, I don't know; maybe. But more importantly, is NECESSARY to read religious text in it's original language, at minimum!
"...all of the alternate Bibles that were written."
That seems to imply that there is one "the bible" and the others are alternate versions. I hope that is not the intent of the statement.
@@MR-nl8xr we don't have the "original text" in any language. Also, there never was an "original text".
If you don’t believe anymore then fine , then go about your new life in peace and let others come to their own conclusions. Please don’t put doubt in the minds of Lifetime Bible believers who’ve studied the scriptures resulting in their hope and joy in life.
Is it really important which version of the mythology you are reading? Either way it is still myth.
What *ultimately* matters is not what’s on the paper nor on the screen nor keyboard but between the ears.
The Joe Rogan of Religion… always interesting, astute, driven, capitalist (great), but ultimately limited by your arrogance….just like Joe.
What was that whole "probe" thing about? Why did he get offended when you used the word probe? Is there something I don't know about contemporary language in which probe is seen as offensive?
It's just his straight-faced humor. I've watched enough of his lectures to know he doesn't pass up a joke if there's one to be made. He doesn't always nail it, but you gotta appreciate the effort. Lol
Visitors?
Yeah I’m wondering the same thing..I don’t think he was joking either because he didn’t even smile afterwards and seemed snappy as he continued
@@hannahs4779 I think there could be the possibility that Derek said something else that got edited out. Who would be that ... offended by the word probe; contextually here nonverbally clear not meant to be the “visitors” manner of probing?
It’s definitely not funny to him… but um this makes this funny to me 😂
I guess to get out the idea of aliens
Don't be deceived by supposed "experts" who have never been in the Divine Presence. Straining out a Nat and swallowing a camel, IMO.
Really interesting. Why is Dr. Baden concerned about the term “probe you...?”
Same, I wondered what he meant at 3:11 too. Maybe it has a bad, slang connotation that I'm just not aware of.
Right off the bat this dude is wrong about creation. We Orthodox Jews DO believe in Creatio ex Nihilo. Nothing existed before creation, except Him. In Hebrew this is Yesh M'Ayin. Indeed, we believe nothing has any existence independent of His blessed Will, even now. Nor does His creation of Heaven and Earth constitute any change in Him, since from His perspective, nothing else exists.
Excellent short video Derek! "The Bible" is a myth... In more ways than one.📖
Wait until you die, you will realise it is not a myth.
@@felixrolandbolorunduro7282 When we die, we'll most likely realize nothing. Ignored Bible verses teach that: Ecclesiastes 9:5, Psalm 115:17. Too bad it's nothing but unverifiable speculation! 🗑
@@jon4574 Hell fire awaits you for sure, and you cannot wish it away. It is inevitable unless you repent of your sins and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.
John 3:16,18,36 KJV
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [36] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 8:23-24 KJV
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. [24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
@@felixrolandbolorunduro7282 I was an evangelical Christian for most of my life, so I'm familiar with these verses. Fortunately, neither you nor anyone can prove any of the threats of this religion or any other. If it does turn out to somehow be true that "God" exists and is an evil tyrant, then either I'll be saved because I was a sincere 100% convinced believer, or I won't because I "fell away from grace".
Sadly, with this issue, the Bible can't agree with itself. About half of Christians believe that John 10:29 teaches Eternal Security (once saved always saved), and the other half believe that Hebrews 6:6 teaches that if you fall away once you're screwed. There's a strong case to be made for both, which is the problem. The Bible doesn't agree or teach clearly on this or dozens of important issues. It's a confusing and contradictory mess.
i will be praying for you
That was a whole lot of nothing ....
It's so great that the word about "The Word" is seeping out to the public. I believe the next generation will be far less under the thrall of the Bible thumpers because of this.
Dude, the Latin Vulgate was the first bible, obviously written in Latin, about 350-400 ad. The Wycliffe bible was the first bible to be translated and that happened about 1000 years later. Then we start to get all the different bible versions.
Funny this dude doesn't mention that
I’ve used the JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh the most & I’ve taught some Hebrew to adults before. I’m so glad they brought up Genesis 1.1 early on. It boggle my mind that people can honestly think that only their translation is correct but the Hebrew text their Bible is rendered from is wrong!
John 1:1 is before Genesis 1:1.
@@auh2o148 Genesis is the first book of the Scriptures…way before John which was one of the latest books written in the New Testament.
@christochaney8302 I'm not talking about books, I'm talking about story. Even in a correct Chronological Bible, John 1:1 is the first scripture. My point is that all things are eventually explained if you read the *whole* story.
@@auh2o148 Nope. If there is a text that makes a claim of something before John 1.1 do you accept it?
@@christo-chaney 🙄what I'm saying is the content in John 1:1 is what's before everything. You have to take off your religious goggles and just see The Truth.
I appreciate the nuances and depth of discussions like this.
Thank you, Derek, for all your work and effort.
Only the Shamans know the truth on this beautiful planet. As they are the only ones with infinite direct spiritual experiences, and spirit and truth can only be known by experience. Not by silly words on the mind.
But God controls translations to make sure all Bibles are true to His Word, right?
It's interesting how atheists interviewing atheists are praised in the comments by other atheists
Great information. I have never seen anyone speak so plainly, so matter of fact, so bluntly honest. A teacher is never more believable than when they admit that based on the evidence or lack thereof there is no way of knowing definitively. I respect that and appreciate the lack of their own ego getting in the way of the truth.
The Bible is a supernatural book. You are not thinking spiritually at all.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
The Word of God wasn't written by men. The men were only taking dictation from the Holy Spirit. The Word of God the we have in our own language is exactly the way the Holy Spirit interpreted it for our generation. There are no mistakes in the original or in the interpretation. But to read it, you also must have the Holy Spirit, because the words are spirit and truth. If you don't have His Spirit guiding you, none of it will make sense to you. The Word of God is supernatural, as is this creation. This creation wasn't created out of nothing. It was created out of God. When it says, "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.", it means exactly what it says. God created this physical heaven and earth out of that spiritual dimension that already existed. When it says Abraham looked behind, that is what happened, because that is the way the Holy Spirit interpreted it. He probably looked behind because that is where the voice seemed to him to come from. God divided up the nations and he divided up Israel. The scripture is referring to all human people, not angelic beings.
De 32:7 ¶ Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee.
8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
9 For the LORD'S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.
This is what you are missing.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Lu 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
This Professor should debate Tovia Singer on the Antiquity of the Septuagint versus the Masoretic Text. I for one love to see Tovia get demolished🤠
It's called textual criticism, a science. People devote their lives to it. This is why you need a pastor who is a serious scholar that studies and teaches daily able to read the Bible in the original languages, able to evaluate such claims and able to draw significant conclusions that clarify the possible discrepancies, which discrepancies are RARELY significant. REALLY!?!? Does anyone care whether Abraham looked up or looked behind to find a ram.....the IMPORTANCE IS THAT HE FOUND A RAM!!?! To be sure there are over 5000 variants in the NT, VERY FEW are of any theological significance. I have YET to discover the first pastor whose theology was so tainted by such. The REAL problem is that pastors don't study and teach daily. And oh BTW, the Isaiah copper scroll from Qumran almost matches perfect the very competent, scholastic choices that the written tradition of the Massoretes upheld...a discipline unmatched in literary history. We have many more witnesses and evidence, still be unearthed, that provides much greater clarity to the autograph. BUT AFTER ALL OF THIS IS SAID AND DONE>>>>>>>>to be sure, we don't make the Scriptures an icon come down from heaven. We are imperfect, therefore our Scriptures are imperfect, nonetheless we spiritually advance from their study , especially under the gift of Pastor Teacher , Eph 4 (all this clown is really saying is that he has no respect for the authority of the received text....when I doubt HE EVER contributed to it in any significant way regardless of his expertise, or lack therefore) I will tell you that the ONLY WAY you will EVER be convinced that the Scriptures are anything more than a hoax is through learning the content and not criticizing something YOU HAVEN'T EVEN READ!@!!
Establish regular prayer and pay Zakat
Establish regular prayer and pay Zakat
Establish regular prayer and pay Zakat..
Baden is especially critical of those who would say what a correct reading or translation would be. He implies that vowel points are so ambiguous that the resulting translation is just an opinion. That is not the case. The vowels are not generally needed because the rules of Hebrew and the contexts exactly determine what the vowels should be. There is not enough real ambiguity in the texts to cast the extreme doubt on them that Baden does. The point is that Baden is driving a narrative based on unbelief, and not on the facts, which he is misrepresenting.
We do not need anyone leading us away from reading
The Bible. These are small. Things. I am. Learning Hebrew. Just for the reason of reading the Hebrew Bible.
I read the Bible almost daily. I'm no longer a Christian, but I still continue to read. These are not small problems. I can get around the many many small problems. However, I can't get over the many many big problems. It's evident the Bible is errant. So how do you know what to trust. If there is one obvious error in a gospel, how can trust anything else it says. Christians can't just pick and choose what they want to believe. You can, but if you do, you've created your own gospel. We all have inadvertently created our own gospel. Then are we following the Bible or our own opinion?
@@drumwaves1 That's a great comment in response to her (Deneen).
3:12 what happened there? What was a good point? Don’t call it probing? I’m a little confused
Thank you for sharing. Good stuff!
The Bible is the Latin Vulgate..
The best English translation is the Douay- Rheims.
The Book of Jeremiah is now one-seventh longer than the one that appears in some of the 2,000-year-old manuscripts known as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Some verses, including ones containing a prophecy about the seizure and return of Temple implements by Babylonian soldiers, appear to have been added after the events happened. See the AP article, "In Jerusalem, Scholars Trace Bibleʼs Evolution," by Matti Friedman, Aug. 12, 2011
Above is from this piece
In Jerusalem, scholars trace Bibleʼs evolution
MATTI FRIEDMAN - Associated Press
(AP) August 12, 2011
We get a Hebrew translation by the Greek translated by Rome. These were altered by man to fit not Gods will but what fits into what men wanted. The Roman Catholic Church crucified humans because they even if they are Christians they don’t worship the same way. They altered people they “teach” a woman that was as much an apostles as the 11 men who followed Yeshua or Jesus
This was a really great watch!
You still watch? I dont entertain it!
I read War and Peace in an English translation. I guess I never read “the” War and Peace because I didn’t read it in Russian.
The Catholic Bible uses the Septuagint as its source, as did St Paul for all we know. Also, the Catholic Bible is fully annotated, which is important and beneficial because we're talking here about a collection of ancient texts written by many different authors, in different times, in different languages, all set in different historic contexts. Now, if on top of all that you're dealing with multiple translations to modern languages, each with its own problems, you ought to annotate this too. Only then can you tell the reader that, yes, you're reading the Bible, or as close to it as we can get given our present day understanding and knowledge. This is no different from how physicists present their results always providing the uncertainty and discussing in depth the methods used.
No way!!! physicist base ides on evidence, and update ideas when new better information is discovered , the scientific process is a self correcting mechanism, nothing at all like magical nonsense, and impossible absurdities, authored by ignorant primitives.
@@larryscarr3897 I referred to methodology of physics, not to the content. The methodology is that whenever you present a result, you also present the error bounds, then discuss in detail how both the result and the error estimate were obtained. It should be the same with the Bible. The annotations should discuss differences between sources, historical and archaeological context, and every other detail pertinent to the text. There are actually such editions, and, as I pointed out, the Catholic Bible gets pretty close.
@@larryscarr3897 I suspect you may know little about either physics or religion. Neither is physics so pure of metaphysics, cf. superstrings theory, nor is religion so removed from common sense. Present day Judaism, for example, does away with belief and faith, focusing instead on observances and practices, because, as they say, it is the latter that makes you a Jew, and being a Jew is all about community, tradition, and history-which are all good things.
@@zdzislawmeglicki2262 super string "theory" is a hypothesis, called a theory in common discussion, or to be understood by science communicators.. i don't want to explain the difference, or the why of the distinction.. suffice it to say there is one, and magic is stupid.
@@larryscarr3897 Magic "stupid?" My foot! I bet you have never faced Lord Voldemort. Anyhow, suffice to point out that J. K. Rowling earns between fifty and one hundred million dollars annually by peddling magic. It's anything but "stupid."
Doesn't the Septuagint say 'sons of the angels', whereas the Dead Sea Scrolls says 'sons of the gods'--isn't that what Dr. Kipp says?
It's important to know the author to fully understand his book.
The author of the bible is the holy spirit, it does not matter how the words written. God knows that we are unperfect and we need to have faith in God.
@@sussiea9221 And instead of writing the book himself hes relyed on fallible humans? Why?
@@thehomiedan6378 Common sense, God is a SPIRIT. The Spiritual and Physical are entirely two different realms. To communicate to you, he will need Physical agents like you.
@@felixrolandbolorunduro7282 Common sense??? Self evident truths are common sense... if I put my hand into a fire then I will feel pain so avoid doing so, and literally everyone on the planet knows this so it is common sense. A spirit can't be seen or experienced so that is the opposite of common sense. The actual truth is that common sense is nobody on Earth has ever presented evidence for the existence of god nor can anyone prove the supernatural claims found in the Bible such as god is a spirit are true, so that fact being an irrefutable truth is common sense.
Any Christian that claims otherwise is knowingly lying... because if you could present the evidence then you would have already done so and would be the most famous individual known to mankind for proving the existence of a deity from some religious holy text. You people don't base arguments on logic or sound reasoning because it should have been common sense that your assertion is not representative of common sense. Plus, Jesus wasn't a spirit and the Bible claims he talked and interacted with people during his lifetime... so he could have written the Bible. So your argument that god needed humans to write the Bible isn't based on sound reasoning as Jesus could have done so.
@@unknownmovements Well Christianity is not a myth nor a figment of imagination of Christians. Every born again Christian has had an encounter with God, who dwells in them, and they Know it. He(God) speaks and communicates with them. Do you want to prove this? Repent of your sins and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour. Only after then will God reveal himself to you that he is real. This experience will put to rest once and for all the confusion and the back and forth arguments that you engage in.
Both of you are putting your presuppositions on display. You want the Bible to not be true because it reveals your sin and your need for a savior. There are thousands of manuscripts and when examined, the Bible is found to be the most well attested work in antiquity and we can trust our lives to what the Bible says. I dare you guys go debate someone like James White or Daniel Wallace. All the issues this professor brought up have been dealt with and would not hold up in debate.
My question to protestants: why would you trust an organisation like the catholic church that organised a series of books into one as the bible we know today? Why not include the other books they didn't include
@Srindal4657 - I will keep this in mind and ask the first evangelical who i see and he might answer some weird holy ghost god choice thing.
I am sorry to say that since you are not a believer, all you do is continue looking for reasons not to believe. Don’t you think God gives understanding to those who honestly search the scriptures for wisdom and instruction in faith? The Spirit of God guides our reading and filters out what is written that is not true or have been introduced by man’s faulty understanding. I am a believer and I have been for 50 years, there is nothing that can derail my faith because I trust the God who put them there by inspiration and guidance of His Spirit.The Bible words have the power to transform because those words are alive and bear witness to our spirts that they are true, only faith can get us there.
Probe probe probe probe probe probe probe probe ….
If you are the truth seeker you have to compare every translation
Me I prefer the 1905 translation
A little bit clean
I don't agree that reading a bible and you're not actually reading it?
There are readers
There are hearers
Blessed are the readers and the hearers and fulfill whats written in it
Could it be a Ram's behind, that is, the Ram was not facing the beholder.
The Ram (Aries constellation) sets headfirst. Ram in the Bush
The Amazing Mosaics of the 6th Century Bet Alfa Synagogue - TH-cam
th-cam.com/video/VAm7BILnjyo/w-d-xo.html
This is all true but Christians don't care. They believe God preserved the Bible in the form He wanted it no matter what
This dude explains things so well and off the cuff
Cool
@williamward9278Would you explain why?
Does not matter if the texts scream out these contradictions in all there splendor.To someone deep in the rabbit hole inaccuracy and circular reasoning the only way to make this deceiving book make any sense.Like always they continue to ignore the lies and immorality the book full of.
The way I see it, the words may be different sometimes and mistakes can and have been made. Hebrew I'm sure, is a very complex and nuanced language that is very hard to translate 100% accurately into our modern English or other languages. And because every language is different and special in it's own way, sometimes the Hebrew meaning of something can be translated better in another language. For example, I have this pocket NT bible that's split into English NKJV and Swedish Bibel 2000 and it's really helped me to understand the *message*.
The point is, it doesn't matter if something is worded differently as long as the meaning is there, as long as the message gets across. It doesn't matter if Abraham saw a ram or saw a ram behind him. The ram was there and Abraham saw it, that's all that matters.
Yeah but for example God setting the nations according to the sons of Israel (Masoretic text), the sons of God/gods (dead sea scrolls) or angels (Septuagint) is really significant in Deuteronomy 32.
Another big one is whether the Hebrew patriarch swore by multiple gods in Genesis with his Aramean relative.
@@stevenv6463 Genesis specifies that Jacob’s household when he descended into Egypt numbered 70. Genesis 10 contains 70 names of nations or cities, a number that was symbolic of totality.
@@ReLair88 I agree. There are also the seventy sacrifices of Ezekiel.
i wish i was this innocent to believe that a 2000 years compilation of texts would be capable of having it's meaning surviving
Jesus spoke Aramaic and his name was yeshua and he wasn't a Christian he was a Jew and there are old Bibles where they refer to God as Allah and Yeshua taught in Europe and India and he was also a Buddha which is a degree
So wait... there's no guaranteeing any of it was recorded actuated accurately, but we're supposed to base our whole lives on it?
The man who made Zeus so angry that he ordered the flood = Aquarius/Moses/Reuben. There is only one man amongst the 12 tribes/signs/constellations/months and that is Aquarius. At this very moment, Zeus is thundering in the overhead skies and Moses/Aquarius is dumping his water-pot on us. For thirty days we weep (rain) for Moses. His eyes never go dim, they are as bright as all the stars in Aquarius.
This among many other things, even the early Christians took inspiration from many sources.
Don’t think that way please !! The guarantee is that it has been preserved from ancient times , and it WORKS. !! In people’s lives…. for generations ✝️✨
@@maxprescott9371 i mean it works as much as any devotional text can. It's just mostly unreliable for accuracy. And Christians today don't actually do what the Bible says, they do what their pastor says the Bible says
The worst thing is to spend you life ready the Bible. What a waste of time!
The more you think you know, the more you don't know!
Compare that to those who don't even know what you know, and they live as if they know more than all!
In the begining God created the Heavens and the earth depicts Space time and matter hence the Bible is totally correct nothing else comes close to the truth and reality of the Bible