@@timesupea I think when his head is in the game and he’s not all like “Osha Osha” letting his emotions get in the way he’s actually pretty good. But when contrasting quigons attachment to Anakin there’s a sense of stoicism there that would help Quigon in battle situations than Sol. When Sol did use force repulse I was impressed ngl
@@pimmyjair6396I need to give more context because I’m making it seem that way. Sol caring for Osha is fine however the obsessiveness he displayed in the series was I believe over the top in contrast to Quigon who was more stoic in his approach. Your line of questioning is very important and needs to happen 💯
Sol has a defensive edge, as Shien and Soresu are both defensive forms, so he could wait until Qui-Gon starts to slow down, then push further with his own skill in Ataru. That said, Jinn's more physically imposing size both his reach and power quite formidable.
A detailed analysis? Really? Every jedo or padawan or sith would he any 2 or 3 characters in the acolyte hands down easily. The acolyte will go down as not even legends nevermind canon.
🤣🤣 in all honesty I’m going to straight up say that I freaking wish. For me I personally I wish the sequels along with the acolyte were non-canon and we start fresh 1000 years post ROTJ and forget about this inflated skywalker saga that they continue to flood at this point. We know that it ain’t gonna happen so for now I’m just going to enjoy the idea of maul putting Qimir in a rotisserie 👨🍳
Alrighty, here we go again. Thanks for including my response in your previous video by the way! For this one, I’ll say Qui-Gon defeats Sol 7/10 times. To start, it is important to note again that the average High Republic (HR) Jedi is noted as superior to Jedi from any other era. This is due to the HR being the canonical peak of the Jedi overall. Sol was a HR Jedi, and he was noted to be an exceptionally formidable one. Unlike many of the other Jedi whom Qimir was able to kill, Sol bested him twice. Additionally, it seems to be believable to many of the Jedi that Sol could’ve been responsible for the deaths of all the Jedi Knights/Padawans Qimir killed. It’s clear that he was a very capable combatant. However, Qui-Gon should still take the cake. He is far from an average Jedi and should not be immediately thought to be below the top-tier HR Jedi. The Phantom Menace novel (still canon unless it specifically contradicts something on-screen per Lucasfilm) notes: “Qui-Gon Jinn was one of the most able swordsmen in the Jedi order. The Jedi Master he had trained under had considered him one of the best the Master had taught in his more than four hundred years in the order. Qui-Gon had fought in conflicts all across the galaxy in the span of his life and against odds so great that many others would not have stood a chance.” While Qui-Gon’s master was later retconned to be Dooku in AOTC, the point still stands that Qui-Gon was one of the most skilled combatants in the Jedi order and stacks up very well even against his HR predecessors. The Revenge of the Sith novel also described Qui-Gon as a “legendary Master in his own right”. Sol, while noted as extremely competent, does not have accolades on this level. Beyond this though, we can look at Qui-Gon’s feats. In a canon comic, Qui-Gon was able to block blaster fire from 22+ guards surrounding him all at once while holding someone with his free hand. Compare this to master and High Council member Ki-Adi Mundi (now confirmed to be included among the HR Jedi) who was shot down by less than half that many clones all from one direction. Qui-Gon was also able to duel relatively evenly with Darth Maul for a time, a true Sith Lord who relied far more on pure skill with a blade than Qimir (who primarily relied upon trickery and unpredictability). Darth Maul in canon sources is noted as “One of the most skilled and deadly warriors in Sith history”, something which puts his skills above Qimir. Many HR Jedi died to Qimir, and Sol was able to defeat him after a prolonged hard-fought duel (even after already knowing his tricks). Jinn however held his own in a prolonged duel against a much more skilled fighter, showcasing his superior skill with a blade. Now, in terms of Force abilities, it is true that Sol is slightly more apt to use them in combat, given his Niman form, primarily demonstrating this in his showing of Force repulse against Qimir. However, he could only do this with a few seconds of breathing room, which Qui-Gon’s relentlessly aggressive Ataru should not provide. Beyond this, it can be argued that on the slim chance this does come down to a contest of the Force, Qui-Gon would prevail. Leslie Headland was quoted as saying - “Then you have Master Sol… who I would say is very much of the Qui-Gon blueprint, but definitely not at the level of Qui-Gon… Sol is the type of character who would have been in touch enough with the Force to achieve some of the things Qui-Gon did.” Ultimately, though Sol is definitely a very skilled duelist and proficient Force user, he doesn’t stack up to Qui-Gon. Jinn’s superior skills with a blade would overpower Sol’s own while simultaneously not giving him the space to utilize his Force abilities to the fullest. Even if he did, Qui-Gon likely surpasses him in this as well. The only way Jinn loses is if Sol is able to hold out long enough to tire out Qui-Gon (who has less physical stamina), but Jinn’s dueling skills should end the fight well before then most of the time. Qui-Gon wins 7/10.
Pleasure it was quite insightful so appreciate it. That was the biggest talking point in the last battle to the death for sure. I’m sure fans will continue to be divided by the power differences between the high republic Jedi in contrast to the prequel Jedi specifically. Qui-Gon Jinn's skill and experience, especially when compared to Qimir and Sol, really highlight his prowess as one of the most formidable Jedi. It definitely should be a talking point that qui gon had his skills honed by Dooku and applied against formidable foes like Darth Maul. Qui-Gon's ability to hold his own against Maul, who is arguably more skilled than Qimir, underscores why he remains such a revered figure in the Jedi Order. His mastery of the Ataru form, combined with his deep connection to the Force, sets him apart not just as a swordsman, but as a Jedi who could face almost any challenge the galaxy threw at him. The comparisons you've drawn between Qui-Gon and Sol really emphasise the unique strengths of each character. Thanks heaps for such a well-thought-out analysis!
@@kilran.starwars Yeah, the High Republic Jedi vs the Prequel Jedi is a controversial topic which typically has people going either way. Overall, I think it makes sense that the average Jedi in the HR era is superior than the Prequel era Jedi but can still be argued as significantly below top-tier Prequel Jedi. After all, the main Jedi characters from the Prequels are all legendary powerhouses. They’re definitely a cut above nearly any HR Jedi we’ve seen. And plus, most of the High Republic talk is just hype without many combat feats to back it up, especially against other duelists. For example, Yaddle was a Jedi in the High Republic said to share HR Yoda’s affinity with the Force. She was killed relatively easily by a Jedi Dooku. Dagan Gera was one of the finest HR Jedi warriors in his day, and he was defeated by Cal Kestis, someone a bit above the best Inquisitors who don’t hold a candle to the main Jedi of the Prequels. Ki-Adi Mundi was a Jedi during the HR era, presumably only improving over time until he achieved a position on the Council, and then he gets taken out fairly easily by his Clone troopers. Even Qui-Gon (one of the least impressive main Prequel Jedi) has feats that directly surpass this by a huge margin. There’s also a fair amount of evidence to say that the main PT Jedi massively outclass their average contemporaries. For example, a Jedi Knight Obi-Wan could take on Jango Fett (with Boba in the Slave 1 for backup) while explicitly trying to capture and not kill him in a prolonged fight. Compare this to later in AOTC where Coleman Trebor (a Jedi Master on the Council) gets killed easily by Jango in three shots. Or Adi Gallia (and at least one other Jedi Master) being killed by Savage Oppress only for Obi-Wan to outfight Savage and Maul simultaneously. Or Anakin being able to stroll into the Jedi temple and casually kill Masters while physically choking their Padawans with his other hand. Overall, I think it’s fair to say the hierarchy would generally go like this: Top tier PT Jedi > Top tier HR Jedi >> Average HR Jedi > Average PT Jedi
@@sunryder I think it was a mistake for me to generalise the high republic Jedi with the prequel Jedi and the rule of for the next versus is only to look at the Jedi as individuals instead of in eras. Yeah Jedi like ki adi Mundi only got more powerful in time in order to be moved up to the high council. Hahaha so true then gets finessed by troopers although he was in so much shock. There is a ton of evidence in the clone wars series in terms of these battles as well had their forms it’s definitely worth examining for sure. I actually don’t don’t mind the verdict at the end. The only question I have is why would an average Jedi from the HR era be stronger than the average prequel Jedi. If we can scrutinise individual Jedi then perhaps we can make it work I suppose. Overall your delivery of your insights are on point 🙏. I wish I see this level of eloquence on Star Wars instagram comments.
@@kilran.starwars I don’t think it was a mistake really. I liked your breakdown! I think it’s totally fair to say that the High Republic Jedi are generally a step above Prequel Jedi. There are several canon quotes that definitively state that the High Republic was the prime of the Jedi and where they as a group were at their most powerful. However, it still looks to me like the exceptional Jedi of the prequels are much, much better than their average contemporaries. Even good enough to surpass the exceptional High Republic Jedi. And, judging by how HR Jedi typically perform in the Clone Wars or Imperial eras, I still wouldn’t fault someone for even doubting that the HR Jedi were the Order’s prime at all. It’s very subjective overall at the end of the day. I personally think the scale I put at the end of the last comment is the best way to reconcile the statements and feats of Jedi from both eras, but people can totally disagree with me. Thanks for the compliment! I enjoy the diversion every once in a while of thinking of hypothetical battles and situations like this. Your videos are also easily some of the more well-thought out and balanced. Using a lot of informed facts and balanced arguments while not going totally off the hardcore power-scaling deep end which often sacrifices logic and common sense. Good job man!
I appreciate it sunryder thank you 🙏 For sure those sources are definitely accurate especially Jedi like Stellan and Elzar would give prequel Jedi a run for their money. The high republic definitely adds a level of complexity when it comes to contrasting between Jedi of different eras. Although the one thing I said in the previous video was the idea that the beginning of the phantom menace was still a time of peace. Therefore I don’t see how those Jedi regressed in comparison to the high republic Jedi. Yeah definitely agree super subjective. Cause any mix of Jedi from the HR era being compared to the Prequel era can go either way. You see I wish people have that mentality when it comes to dialogue. If everyone agreed on everything that wouldn’t make any sort of progression anywhere specifically in Star wars as well. Again I appreciate it 💯 I know it’s not the perfect set of categories to consider but as you said the goal is for balance, common sense and personal biases to be removed cause I’m not afraid to say this but maul is one of my favourite characters of all time and I personally do prefer quigon over sol which I suppose many people do but contrasting the new the old is very very important when it comes to Star Wars at the moment because I don’t think there is enough from the community being impartial anymore.
I don’t know maul seemed to be a better dualist and he didn’t have any cheap tricks like the strangers helmet, jecki would have likely killed him if he didn’t have a second blade.
@@justsomelizardwithatophat.367 The stranger wiped out a squad of Jedi. And it’s worth noting that the Jedi leaders thought Sol was the only one who could pull that off. They knew he was powerful. Whereas Maul thought that Qui-Gon was pathetic.
lf qui gon swapped places with sol he would probably haunt vernestra's dreams with his force ghost
I lowkey wanna see that role swap.
Sol is a simp. Qui Gon is a true Jedi Master.
so good 😆
I actually thought Sol was the better of the acolyte characters
@@timesupea I think when his head is in the game and he’s not all like “Osha Osha” letting his emotions get in the way he’s actually pretty good. But when contrasting quigons attachment to Anakin there’s a sense of stoicism there that would help Quigon in battle situations than Sol. When Sol did use force repulse I was impressed ngl
So hes a simp?for caring about someone
@@pimmyjair6396I need to give more context because I’m making it seem that way. Sol caring for Osha is fine however the obsessiveness he displayed in the series was I believe over the top in contrast to Quigon who was more stoic in his approach. Your line of questioning is very important and needs to happen 💯
For sure it’d be Qui Gon
Qui-Gon popping for sure 😮💨
I did quite enjoy this analysis of these two characters.
@@Gentleman-Penguin thanks Gentlemen-Penguin 🙏 (quite the gentleman you are 💯😄)
plus im very sure if osha can kill sol with a force choke qui gon probably could
Yeah that really made him really weak. His attachments definitely got the better of him
Sol has a defensive edge, as Shien and Soresu are both defensive forms, so he could wait until Qui-Gon starts to slow down, then push further with his own skill in Ataru. That said, Jinn's more physically imposing size both his reach and power quite formidable.
Very insightful much appreciated. Strategically playing the waiting game help Sol for sure
sol was unable to sense mae coming to attack him what in the world
His so emotional I do believe when his heads in the game that when we get his at his best and he whips out the force repulse
A detailed analysis? Really? Every jedo or padawan or sith would he any 2 or 3 characters in the acolyte hands down easily. The acolyte will go down as not even legends nevermind canon.
🤣🤣 in all honesty I’m going to straight up say that I freaking wish. For me I personally I wish the sequels along with the acolyte were non-canon and we start fresh 1000 years post ROTJ and forget about this inflated skywalker saga that they continue to flood at this point. We know that it ain’t gonna happen so for now I’m just going to enjoy the idea of maul putting Qimir in a rotisserie 👨🍳
Let's see who the next champion will be, black woman vs black woman, Reva vs Mae
Omg I can’t 🤣
Alrighty, here we go again. Thanks for including my response in your previous video by the way! For this one, I’ll say Qui-Gon defeats Sol 7/10 times.
To start, it is important to note again that the average High Republic (HR) Jedi is noted as superior to Jedi from any other era. This is due to the HR being the canonical peak of the Jedi overall. Sol was a HR Jedi, and he was noted to be an exceptionally formidable one.
Unlike many of the other Jedi whom Qimir was able to kill, Sol bested him twice. Additionally, it seems to be believable to many of the Jedi that Sol could’ve been responsible for the deaths of all the Jedi Knights/Padawans Qimir killed. It’s clear that he was a very capable combatant.
However, Qui-Gon should still take the cake. He is far from an average Jedi and should not be immediately thought to be below the top-tier HR Jedi. The Phantom Menace novel (still canon unless it specifically contradicts something on-screen per Lucasfilm) notes:
“Qui-Gon Jinn was one of the most able swordsmen in the Jedi order. The Jedi Master he had trained under had considered him one of the best the Master had taught in his more than four hundred years in the order. Qui-Gon had fought in conflicts all across the galaxy in the span of his life and against odds so great that many others would not have stood a chance.”
While Qui-Gon’s master was later retconned to be Dooku in AOTC, the point still stands that Qui-Gon was one of the most skilled combatants in the Jedi order and stacks up very well even against his HR predecessors. The Revenge of the Sith novel also described Qui-Gon as a “legendary Master in his own right”.
Sol, while noted as extremely competent, does not have accolades on this level. Beyond this though, we can look at Qui-Gon’s feats.
In a canon comic, Qui-Gon was able to block blaster fire from 22+ guards surrounding him all at once while holding someone with his free hand. Compare this to master and High Council member Ki-Adi Mundi (now confirmed to be included among the HR Jedi) who was shot down by less than half that many clones all from one direction.
Qui-Gon was also able to duel relatively evenly with Darth Maul for a time, a true Sith Lord who relied far more on pure skill with a blade than Qimir (who primarily relied upon trickery and unpredictability). Darth Maul in canon sources is noted as “One of the most skilled and deadly warriors in Sith history”, something which puts his skills above Qimir. Many HR Jedi died to Qimir, and Sol was able to defeat him after a prolonged hard-fought duel (even after already knowing his tricks). Jinn however held his own in a prolonged duel against a much more skilled fighter, showcasing his superior skill with a blade.
Now, in terms of Force abilities, it is true that Sol is slightly more apt to use them in combat, given his Niman form, primarily demonstrating this in his showing of Force repulse against Qimir. However, he could only do this with a few seconds of breathing room, which Qui-Gon’s relentlessly aggressive Ataru should not provide.
Beyond this, it can be argued that on the slim chance this does come down to a contest of the Force, Qui-Gon would prevail. Leslie Headland was quoted as saying - “Then you have Master Sol… who I would say is very much of the Qui-Gon blueprint, but definitely not at the level of Qui-Gon… Sol is the type of character who would have been in touch enough with the Force to achieve some of the things Qui-Gon did.”
Ultimately, though Sol is definitely a very skilled duelist and proficient Force user, he doesn’t stack up to Qui-Gon. Jinn’s superior skills with a blade would overpower Sol’s own while simultaneously not giving him the space to utilize his Force abilities to the fullest. Even if he did, Qui-Gon likely surpasses him in this as well. The only way Jinn loses is if Sol is able to hold out long enough to tire out Qui-Gon (who has less physical stamina), but Jinn’s dueling skills should end the fight well before then most of the time.
Qui-Gon wins 7/10.
Pleasure it was quite insightful so appreciate it.
That was the biggest talking point in the last battle to the death for sure. I’m sure fans will continue to be divided by the power differences between the high republic Jedi in contrast to the prequel Jedi specifically.
Qui-Gon Jinn's skill and experience, especially when compared to Qimir and Sol, really highlight his prowess as one of the most formidable Jedi. It definitely should be a talking point that qui gon had his skills honed by Dooku and applied against formidable foes like Darth Maul. Qui-Gon's ability to hold his own against Maul, who is arguably more skilled than Qimir, underscores why he remains such a revered figure in the Jedi Order.
His mastery of the Ataru form, combined with his deep connection to the Force, sets him apart not just as a swordsman, but as a Jedi who could face almost any challenge the galaxy threw at him. The comparisons you've drawn between Qui-Gon and Sol really emphasise the unique strengths of each character. Thanks heaps for such a well-thought-out analysis!
@@kilran.starwars Yeah, the High Republic Jedi vs the Prequel Jedi is a controversial topic which typically has people going either way.
Overall, I think it makes sense that the average Jedi in the HR era is superior than the Prequel era Jedi but can still be argued as significantly below top-tier Prequel Jedi.
After all, the main Jedi characters from the Prequels are all legendary powerhouses. They’re definitely a cut above nearly any HR Jedi we’ve seen. And plus, most of the High Republic talk is just hype without many combat feats to back it up, especially against other duelists.
For example, Yaddle was a Jedi in the High Republic said to share HR Yoda’s affinity with the Force. She was killed relatively easily by a Jedi Dooku. Dagan Gera was one of the finest HR Jedi warriors in his day, and he was defeated by Cal Kestis, someone a bit above the best Inquisitors who don’t hold a candle to the main Jedi of the Prequels. Ki-Adi Mundi was a Jedi during the HR era, presumably only improving over time until he achieved a position on the Council, and then he gets taken out fairly easily by his Clone troopers. Even Qui-Gon (one of the least impressive main Prequel Jedi) has feats that directly surpass this by a huge margin.
There’s also a fair amount of evidence to say that the main PT Jedi massively outclass their average contemporaries. For example, a Jedi Knight Obi-Wan could take on Jango Fett (with Boba in the Slave 1 for backup) while explicitly trying to capture and not kill him in a prolonged fight. Compare this to later in AOTC where Coleman Trebor (a Jedi Master on the Council) gets killed easily by Jango in three shots. Or Adi Gallia (and at least one other Jedi Master) being killed by Savage Oppress only for Obi-Wan to outfight Savage and Maul simultaneously. Or Anakin being able to stroll into the Jedi temple and casually kill Masters while physically choking their Padawans with his other hand.
Overall, I think it’s fair to say the hierarchy would generally go like this:
Top tier PT Jedi > Top tier HR Jedi >> Average HR Jedi > Average PT Jedi
@@sunryder I think it was a mistake for me to generalise the high republic Jedi with the prequel Jedi and the rule of for the next versus is only to look at the Jedi as individuals instead of in eras.
Yeah Jedi like ki adi Mundi only got more powerful in time in order to be moved up to the high council. Hahaha so true then gets finessed by troopers although he was in so much shock.
There is a ton of evidence in the clone wars series in terms of these battles as well had their forms it’s definitely worth examining for sure. I actually don’t don’t mind the verdict at the end. The only question I have is why would an average Jedi from the HR era be stronger than the average prequel Jedi. If we can scrutinise individual Jedi then perhaps we can make it work I suppose. Overall your delivery of your insights are on point 🙏. I wish I see this level of eloquence on Star Wars instagram comments.
@@kilran.starwars I don’t think it was a mistake really. I liked your breakdown!
I think it’s totally fair to say that the High Republic Jedi are generally a step above Prequel Jedi. There are several canon quotes that definitively state that the High Republic was the prime of the Jedi and where they as a group were at their most powerful.
However, it still looks to me like the exceptional Jedi of the prequels are much, much better than their average contemporaries. Even good enough to surpass the exceptional High Republic Jedi.
And, judging by how HR Jedi typically perform in the Clone Wars or Imperial eras, I still wouldn’t fault someone for even doubting that the HR Jedi were the Order’s prime at all.
It’s very subjective overall at the end of the day. I personally think the scale I put at the end of the last comment is the best way to reconcile the statements and feats of Jedi from both eras, but people can totally disagree with me.
Thanks for the compliment! I enjoy the diversion every once in a while of thinking of hypothetical battles and situations like this. Your videos are also easily some of the more well-thought out and balanced. Using a lot of informed facts and balanced arguments while not going totally off the hardcore power-scaling deep end which often sacrifices logic and common sense. Good job man!
I appreciate it sunryder thank you 🙏 For sure those sources are definitely accurate especially Jedi like Stellan and Elzar would give prequel Jedi a run for their money. The high republic definitely adds a level of complexity when it comes to contrasting between Jedi of different eras. Although the one thing I said in the previous video was the idea that the beginning of the phantom menace was still a time of peace. Therefore I don’t see how those Jedi regressed in comparison to the high republic Jedi. Yeah definitely agree super subjective. Cause any mix of Jedi from the HR era being compared to the Prequel era can go either way.
You see I wish people have that mentality when it comes to dialogue. If everyone agreed on everything that wouldn’t make any sort of progression anywhere specifically in Star wars as well. Again I appreciate it 💯 I know it’s not the perfect set of categories to consider but as you said the goal is for balance, common sense and personal biases to be removed cause I’m not afraid to say this but maul is one of my favourite characters of all time and I personally do prefer quigon over sol which I suppose many people do but contrasting the new the old is very very important when it comes to Star Wars at the moment because I don’t think there is enough from the community being impartial anymore.
i actually see sol as one of my favorite jedi and i believe if sol and qui gon were alive at the same time they would have been a formidable duo
Yeah it would be interesting I do believe quigon would support Sol in his emotional connections as he is more stoic
Sol defeated the Sith of his era. Qui-Gon did not. I give it to Sol.
That’s a good point 💯 I guess the question raised would how powerful the sith that sol and qui gon faced
I don’t know maul seemed to be a better dualist and he didn’t have any cheap tricks like the strangers helmet, jecki would have likely killed him if he didn’t have a second blade.
@@justsomelizardwithatophat.367 The stranger wiped out a squad of Jedi. And it’s worth noting that the Jedi leaders thought Sol was the only one who could pull that off. They knew he was powerful. Whereas Maul thought that Qui-Gon was pathetic.
Jin ftw.
He the goat 💯