What a timely message and a blessing to me right now I am so disgruntled with how churches operate today. I've never been so lonely as a single woman on Sunday No one seems to fellowship anymore after a service. It's like a fast food experience. Sing three songs a half hour sermonette and everybody scatters like cockroaches an hour later. I have looked for house gatherings unsuccessfully. The only solution is to start one.. Thank you for these teachings they're actually a God send for me
@@therighteousrighthandso so true It is difficult to do the New Testament model in this mad world House church Start one yourself and let God lead you ❤
I agree - I go alone too I haven’t been committed in years after getting saved since 81’ I have a problem with the big church as of the last 6 years or so - I started a ladies group but all my ladies in our study got to busy for regular fellowship in the last 2 years our fellowship is represented just what is taught here - I’m hoping things change and we get back together… and I hope you find a fellowship too
"One Anothering" is a profound reminder. I left the corporate church system 5 years ago and I do not miss it at all. My daughter recently hosted a women's interactive Bible study and prayer requests. It was a profoundly uplifting time, and it occurred to me... THIS is what the Acts church did!! May the Lord continue to use you to enlighten us believers.
Wow. You really think enlighten? I agree with much said here and have no need to hurt anyone. But most folks I know were saved by a “joint” use by Holy Spirit of organized church and Christian friends and influences. Nothing new here regarding throwing church organizations today under the bus.
@@grenvillebiddulph2126 That very passage says a woman's hair is her covering, so as long as she has a reasonable amount of hair she isn't in violation.
Myself and 2 of my friends who are Christians are going to start doing our own at home Bible study and fellowship each week. I feel like I really need this more than the “show “ I see on Sundays
Tom, your teaching is speaking a powerful word into my heart. My wife and I struggle in the contemporary churches and we’ve settled in with a small group of believers who love each other and share communion. It’s such a refreshing, joyful change of perspective. God bless you and keep you.
Your videos were immensely beneficial in aiding in my strengthening confidence in my journey away from the institution of church. Over the last 2 years my relationship with the Lord grew exponentially by deepening my individual prayer and scripture studies and fellowshipping with family, friends, and strangers alike. It is lonely at times though as this belief is quite minimal all around me.
Thanks for the comments. Even though my intention was not to inhibit attachment to the institutional church, it's clear that the NT church was much more relational and not building based. Do you mind telling me ...What state/country are you from, and To what denomination are you most accustomed?
@@tomwadsworth I haven’t completely stopped visiting churches but do not feel the need to attend every Sunday. lol I’m in Kentucky. I’ve spent the last 20 years attending mostly non denominational church. I currently attend a progressive Baptist church.
You just presented a great argument against a single bishop pastor pope model. In spite of how much pastors groan and complain about how much is on their shoulders, virtually none of them will embrace a New Testament model because they’d lose all of their power and most of their income.
Our churches are built after the Roman Catholic Church system where each pastor is a mini-pope! They usually expect TITHES which Biblically only were given to those of the tribe of Levi who ministered in the Temple-Sanctuary. They not 100% all expenses paid the tithes were FOOD not cash. They each had small plots of land and their own gardens and livestock in the Levitical cities. They also when not serving their rounds in Jerusalem, served as public servants at home. The Council of Macon in the 500s declared that tithes to the Catholic changed from 10% crops and animals to 10% of wages. The Protestant churches in the past century have adoped this Catholic pattern. Often in those old Catholic monisteties they had cottage industries such as growing grapes for a winery. But what makes todays pastors believe they should not lift a finger to earn extra income to help support their families and not be such a burden on their churches? Even the Rabbis of which we read in the in the NT each had jobs----wood chopping, shoe making, doing laundry, etc! Check out the subject of RABBI in the Jewish Encyclopedia online.
You are so correct - I've been ringing that bell for years. 'Pastors' are paid but everyone else is expected to serve - just so hypocritical. Just like the video states, preaching isn't something in the assembly - so what is the modern pastor paid for. Preaching is something the evangelists does and this is why Paul said he could have asked for money but from those he was evangelisizing to. As a believer you are not being evangelize.
100% correct - the Pastors only know the current model - they probably think its suffering for Christ to be buried in admin and meetings when really its just suffering because we struggle to follow Jesus way
Indeed, abandoning the institutional church model in favor of a family and interpersonal relationship based church, is the greatest terror to those who want the church offices, the paychecks, and NONE of the responsibilities of actually shepherding the church and sacrificing for the good of the congregation, with immense accountability.
Thank you for the helpful lesson. Since Covid I have been reconsidering the entire purpose and structure of the Church. This message fits into, confirms and strengthens my new vision for the Church. By God's grace, we will go more towards one-anothering. God bless you.
Amen, amen, AMEN! I have felt confusion and guilt for thinking these things about the rituals of church 'services' for most of my life. Many go home after a church service feeling gently alienated from Christendom - and from our heavenly Father. I love praising God in song, but prefer to do it spontaneously (and, honestly, privately), and certainly without a team on microphones to lead and drown out the other wonderful voices of brother and sister believers. I love conversing with people, encouraging and comforting (which you can sometimes do AFTER the service, but very quickly before everyone leaves). I love biblical teaching (so it's a problem if the sole pastor is not gifted for the purpose but is still forcing himself to preach for 30-60 mins because that's what you DO at church). The emphasis is on conforming to modern church structure. To participate in limited, carefully defined, and sometimes quite meaningless ways. Each church I've been in does seem to live and die by its head pastor (or maybe its worship team). If a pastor moves on, the church risks collapsing from within. The new leader may inherit an unsatisfied (and unsatisfactory) group and try to shape them into the flock he wished for. It's not surprising to hear that people tend to leave most after a change in leadership, but it is sad. We HAVE a shepherd. We can all be equipped for every good work, we can all study to show ourselves approved, we can all be part of the body and show love and mercy to one another. Sometimes, when evangelism is the only purpose valued, church leaves me feeling either used or useless. Believers matter too!!! When we look after each-other... When we LOVE one another... This is how the world knows that we are His disciples.
I am from Western Australia Feeling the same Questioning or talking to elders or pastors about this has got nowhere over the decades Home church and small connect groups work so much better THANK YOU for sharing this ❤
A shared potluck type or bagged lunch meal each week after the meeting is awesome to schedule fellowship consistently Some home churches will also have another meeting after with young ones put down for a nap Or have communion Then more fellowship and maybe families going to each others homes for a bite to eat for supper. A day well spent WITH One Another (Children are trained to be quiet if not sit, for the first meeting; they are part of the day, not shuttled off to “out of the way”)
@@tomwadsworth I am in Florida. I began in the AG but have been nondenominational for a long time now, hosting a home church for 20 years at this point.
Over the years I have used your ‘cork’ analogy re church leadership, except I used ceiling instead. A pastor is usually not even the most spiritual or learned person in the room ever and he’s on Payroll. Thank you so much l for your insight delivered with humour in this refreshing, Spirit led, congregation inclusive message. Count me in. Let’s do this together. I agree and supporrt all points. We GET to grow.
I'm only a half hour into it so far, but this is EXCELLENT. I intend to share this like crazy as it's thorough and scholarly -- even though it should all be obvious to anyone who simply reads their bibles anyway. I'm SO glad that someone is doing this work, and I hope it becomes more of a thing. I'm about to go pretty hard on this sort of thing as I see that the sermon routine discourages individual empowerment, involvement, and growth, going around in circles, allegedly "learning," whereas you have 1st year Christians listening to the same so-called "teaching" as fifty-year-old ones. It has to go. I don't share your sympathy for pastors, though. Even since being a very young Christian, the role that today's "pastors" take on is a total fool's errand and the Bible pretty much says so: just look at Moses' father-in-law who had the sense to say what one man couldn't do singlehandedly.
I stopped attending church years ago because the whole structure felt so off. I got incredibly tired of listening to sermons that were catered to a general audience. I got tired of having no indepth fellowship with other believers because we all wore our Sunday best masks. It finally dawned on me that my church wasn't for Christians it was for unbelievers who didn't know anything about the bible. I've often wondered how the early church conducted their meetings, so this message much appreciated.
Thanks for your honest remarks. Your comments resonate with me on several levels. Speaking for myself, I find that the most edifying Christian gatherings are adult Bible studies/classes where the leader encourages frank and open comments by everyone.
Then you aren’t in a believing gathering. You admitted it. So you left and went to more false beliefs. Sunday gathering isn’t the end. You are to fellowship continually! Who failed? Did you not get her with believers on other days? Did you not see out a church (gathering) on Sundays where they know it’s to teach believers? No. You followed this video and fell more.
@HappyPenguin75034 I have wonderful fellowship and incredible indepth bible studies all the time. I don't need a formal church structure to experience those things. My relationship with God isn't based on church attendance. Jesus said there was coming a time when God would seek those who worship him in spirit and truth. It's not about which mountain you chose to worship at. I'm not opposed to churches. I think it's unfair for you to characterize me as fallen and going to more false beliefs. What do you mean by that?
My husband and I became missionaries in Japan. We'd a great Bible study for our students called Firm Foundations. From Genesis to Revelation. We sat around a table with students and read Bible based on the study. It truly taught the entire purpose and picture of Jesus. We learned more in those informal classes than in years of services and even 2 years at Bible college. We were able to pause discuss and see the Wonder of salvation unfold from Gen to Rev.
Your "Excursus" at 59:55 really went off the Traditionalists' track. You are the first person I have heard give a scriptural reason why "The Great Commission" and evangelism is not for all believers. Just yesterday, I made a comment to a video by a couple where they were talking about their house church experience. Their motivation for house church was to "go make disciples". I think house church is the way to go but not for evangelism. I wrote what you said (before I heard it today) except I wrote that Jesus spoke "The Great Commission" to the eleven (11), I think Judas was already dead at that time. Thanks for the "Excursus" and all your work. I'm 75 and a believer for 45 years.
This has been very edifying and i am getting so much out of this. I think it was William Booth!! (salvation army), who said that we are mummifying Christians in the pews.
"Mummifying" is a good word. In other words, when Christians sit down in a pew, they are essentially climbing into their casket, eliminating their usefulness to anyone around them. The notion is a bit extreme, but I think Booth (?) has a point.
Tom, I like your view that everyone has something (perspective) to add. I know that topographical maps (those with the appearance of 3D) were once made by an airplane with a camera that could shoot a ton of pictures as the plane flew over the landscape. Each frame obviously had a slightly different angle of view. By overlapping the frames a 3D appearance takes shape and gives the viewer a better perspective of the real landscape. This, IMO, is exactly what happens when many people are allowed to give their interpretation of things. We are able to get a fuller, more accurate exposition of faith, scriptures, etc.
The word pastor in Greek means "shepherd." The word "preach" means to proclaim. The word gospel means "good news". The word church means "assembly" in Greek. The word disciple means "follower/student" in Greek. Modern Bibles translate these words badly, leaning on tradition rather than what the Greek actually means.
Same with 'Angels' and 'Baptism'. They are mythological transliterations. Meaning they are not accurate and are the result of religious minded fantasists. This is why no Bible is to be taken too seriously. It's clearly written by man - the thing you are reading, is written by man. The Torah was written by God. I'm not sure the New Testament needs to be. If the actual word was translated, the Bible would say 'Messenger' and not Angel. 'Immersion' and not 'Baptism'. Angel and Baptism have become religious mythology that stokes the imagination but veils what Scripture actually says.
He can’t win because he’s taken on more than he should. In the 1 Corinthians 14 scenario there isn’t just one man in charge of everything. I do not feel sorry for pastors at all. They need to step off the physically elevated place and join with the others called to pastor and teach. The reason churchianity is such a mess is that we are doing it man’s way instead of Gods way. I’ve been a part for 47 years so I’ve seen a lot. Divorce in the church is the same as in the world. I think it’s like 60 % of all children once they are out of college never go back. Pastors quitting or wanting to is skyrocketing. I’m done watching ( and even being a part of) a “ praise team” being elevated on a stage and I’m done listening to some man go on for an hour without anyone having a chance to join in like a conversation. I’m tired of them whining and crying about how they are treated by the sheep and then not take any responsibility for the way they treat the sheep. Anytime someone does leave a church, that person is always blamed. One guy gets paid while everyone else is expected to work for free. This whole clergy over laity model is disgusting. I’m just 10 min in, resuming now. 👍🏼
divorce is the same in the church as outside for multiple reasons. 1. Who goes to church? Those who are in trouble. Church has a disproportionate amount of troubled people in it, because of who it is for. This isn't a bad thing. 2. If you account for those who are dedicated members who attend with their spouse, read the bible regularly, and pray regularly the number drops precipitously. In the last decade my small church, which does have problems and needs some reform as talked about in this series, has had maybe 400 different adults attend semi-regularly for at least 6months over the last 9 years I have been there. We typically have about 80-120 adults on any given Sunday. We have had a lot of turnover. However, only one couple who attended for maybe 2 years and served in 0 capacity in the church, got divorced. Only one couple.
In my observation. "Church" is a boring spectator sport. No wonder men don't like to go. Women do because it's emotional and social. But even that is missing in an era of dark rooms, fog machines, and loud music. No one even shakes your hand.
Don’t even get me started on fog machines and loud music. Sometimes I feel I’m attending a concert. The musicians get tired of the same songs so change them frequently, then they have an audience just standing there listening. Or, they repeat certain lines over and over like mantras. I love music. I don’t love contemporary “Christian” popular songs. Fog machines are transparently “mood setting”. Sorry if I sound grumpy.😐
Sorry to hear that - but that is not my experience. By the time I have left a church service, I will have probably shaked between 5 and 10 hands and greeted people. I've found that making the first move to greet others positively, works almost every time and other people appreciate the care that you show them and the intention that you go to church with.
@@thestraightroad305 Grump away! I'll grump with you. I hate all that stuff. Modern "worship" music is inane, musically illiterate and the lyrics generally repetitive (vain repetition). It's also much too loud. Is God deaf? The participants soon will be, unless they wear ear protectors! I recently left a charismatic-style church (many reasons for this, not relevant to this discussion) and I hated the so-called music. It was not uplifting or elevating to the spirit and I found it impossible to praise God through that vehicle. I do believe that praise and worship can, and should be offered to God in the form of music but we should offer Him the very best, and not this modern tat. I was saved 40 years ago and the modern music then was singable, uplifting, and Biblically-based. Song writers such as Graham Kendrick. They never sing those songs in church these days. Also, ban the drums! Drums feature nowhere in Scripture and can have a deleterious effect on one's physiology (frequencies and vibrations) and can also cause altered states of consciousness - no wonder they feature so much in pagan stuff.
@@ShoshiPlatypus That sounds just like my story! Right down to the 40 years and Graham Kendrick! I miss that music. When it was fresh, new, and sincere to the Lord.
@@thestraightroad305 Thank you! Great stuff. Bring back the Good Old Days as far as Christian worship music is concerned! Happy 40th born-again birthday!
Worshipping, honoring and praising our creator and living our lives in his name should not be complicated,,,,, but uniform churches make it that way. The Lord Jesus has gifted us with all we need to honor him.
The English word "church" is the common translation of the nonreligious Greek word ἐκκλησία, which properly means "assembly." Some have spread the mistaken idea that ἐκκλησίᾳ means "called-out ones," but all the major NT Greek lexicons since the 1950s have aptly debunked this translation as a case of root fallacy or etymologizing. While it's true that "church is not a place" (which I never said), ἐκκλησία certainly refers to an assembly, which inherently involves both people and a place. In 1 Cor 14, Paul uses the phrase ἐν ἐκκλησίᾳ three times. It is commonly translated "in church," but a better translation is probably "in assembly," or "in the meeting." See the use of the term in Acts 19, where it is used three times, not in reference to "the church," but in reference to the impromptu gathering of the Ephesus citizens.
@@mikecara8181 I suggest you look up "root fallacy" and "etymologizing," which are two common problems in lexicography (i.e., determining what words mean).
@@tomwadsworth Thayer lexicon 1889 uses the idea of called out ones. But I don’t disagree that it means assembly….but to have an assembly you need people to assemble…and these are those called out of sin and death and called into Christ
We need to remember that congregation, assemblies were organic in their development, Jewish followers of Jesus did have synagogues. We translated the word to assembly in James, due bias translator, in revelation the same word is synagogue. But James it's assembly, when is Christian is good and when is Jewish it's bad.
I often feel the same way. But I think it's counterproductive to conclude that those churches don't teach the truth. In reality, all churches are mistaken in some of their conclusions or practices on some topics. Of the hundreds of denominations, which one teaches the truth on every conceivable issue? [Answer: None.] Extremely few churches knowingly or willingly teach falsehood. As a general rule, they're all trying to be faithful in the best way they know.
@@tomwadsworth The more you stay away from holy scripture in your preaching the more you will fall into false doctrine. 2 Timothy 4:1-6 kjv 1. I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2. Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 6. For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
Excellent presentation. You're 'preaching to the choir' here. The lack of one-anothering in the "model" of a "modern day Christian assembly" is majorly frustrating. Unfortunately, it is so engrained that when you bring it up with other believers, you get a 'deer in the headlights' look ...... it's so sad that 'the church' - the body of believers - have evolved their gatherings to what we have today.
Exactly! As if by trying to connect in a deep meaningful way is a violation of privacy. I’ve never understood how getting dressed up, standing then sitting, singing for half an hour then saying hello and goodbye is edifying to anyone.
yes so true - we have to move out of the bigger group - invite people over for coffee or lunch, ring them and pray for them - we cannot do a great deal in the larger gathering, other than more superficial. But even in the larger church gathering, we can ask - can I bless someone today, can I encourage someone today? and then we in turn are encouraged !
Preaching is all over 1 Corinthians 14. ‘But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort.’ That’s what preaching under the guidance of the Spirit in fact is.
That lady having a hard time in the middle of his presentation is the perfect example of why the Bible said women need to stay quiet in church. She doesn't know anything and had an attitude about it.
I had the same thought but only from the perspective of how off-topic stuff can throw a speaker off and be a buzz kill for people who are tracking appropriately.
I thank the Lord Jesus that I responded to an altar call in a church building and on my knees called out to God and met the presence of Jesus, his peace, love and joy.....which completely started a new life for me! Without having responded to that altar call decades ago, I don't know what my life would have become!
The problem is ignorance. The believer must rely on The Lord and for the revelation of truth of His Word by His Spirit. We must search individually and wait on God to teach us.
Concerning pastors: The problem with today’s churches is that we don’t embrace the five-fold ministry of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. We as the Body need to step into these different callings and edify and build up the church together. Pastors are NOT supposed to do everything. This is why there are four other apostolic offices.
The lady asking questions already answered in the previous session and then interjecting that altar calls should be done every week… after hearing from a professional with decades of experience that it’s not relevant to the service: she’s who I’m picturing in 1st Corinthians 14 😅
I just don't see any way a professional "minister" who runs a worldly religious corporation can be compared to an actual shepherd in the body of Christ. They are paid to run an organization and make it profitable. They disobey and contradict so many Biblical commands and Christian principles on a regular basis and must be held to account. God's standard for all Christians is perfection. No, we cannot reach that standard in ourselves, but that doesn't mean we are free to continue to sin, continue to teach lies or exalt men's traditions in the place of God's commands. I've talked with a few of these individuals and called them out and none of them would repent of their errors. God is clear about how we are to treat individuals like this- especially if they are amongst us and professing faith in Christ. We all know why too.........unless a man deny's himself and takes up his cross daily he will lose his life. None of these so-called individuals want to die to their "ministries," "their church," "their religious titles or positions," "their salaries," and especially "their reputations" as religious leaders. I don't blame you for your decision to avoid conflict with these men. as you have been in their shoes. I however will not let them off that easy, and will call every one of them out every chance I get, and I think Jesus and the apostles would have done the same. Your content in this video series is excellent. That said, unless the individuals hearing it are dying daily to themselves it won't really matter if they adopt and attempt to practice all of these truths. True spiritual unity and effective christian service results from this one thing- owning and embracing the fact that our old selves have been crucified with Christ and that it is no longer I who live but Christ lives in me. We must die and Jesus' heart, mind, power and purpose must take our place. This is the only recipe for change within ourselves or throughout the world at large.
At the 38 minute mark you mention something very important and I'll paraphrase it by this question; "What are the problems that result from each of these departures from the scriptures?" Years back I wrote an article titled, "The forgotten Christian of NT Christianity" where I made a chart with these columns included: 1. What man has done (in error) 2. What God has said (in the Bible) 3. The results of what man has done I think we need to reiterate these points by making these comparisons as you are doing. This however is the first time I recall you mentioning the third item. I often speak to others about where things originate. If something derives from God it will be approved and fruitful, if not, man's ways can be very destructive and hinder if not destroy what God is in the process of building. See the verse in Mark 7:13 as an example. I see no way around this. If our actions and decisions don't originate with the scriptures (with God), they MUST be called out and rejected regardless of who sanctions them. Sin is sin, and error is error and God expects us to deal with such errors and people severely if we are to be faithful.
This is very interesting to me because, last year I came up to the same conclusions about preaching vs. teaching. The first is evangelizing to the lost, the second is to educate Christians so they can grow. In the context of the early church only qualified men were allowed to speak and to lead. Women and men who did not meet the requirements were not allowed. The "one anothering" was not open to everybody indiscriminately. Even those who were qualified to speak were to be evaluated to ensure proper teaching. Also, congregations were independent but interconnected as we see in the book of Acts to ensure that all the churches had the same teaching and that falsehood was prevented and erradicated. Also, there was a principal or main male messenger (speaker/ teacher/ elder/ episkopos) in each church. It is called the 'angel' of the church in Revelation.
Modern churches would be a lot better if they read the words of Jesus instead of preaching a sermon. That is how people can learn the truth, rather than some theological opinion.
I am staunchly opposed to the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church, but the early church is not the final state of the church. The church grew, and needed to have mechanisms to deal with it. There's nothing wrong with having a structure of authority in the church, so sure a lot of places put too much emphasis on the lead pastor, but not that many of the faithful denominations have the pastor as a totalitarian dictator. My church has a board of overseers, who handle many responsibilities. We also have an associate pastor who assists the lead pastor. And so on. As Christians we are given freedom to do things differently. We don't HAVE to chant a chant, sing a specific song, say a specific prayer, move in a specific way, wear specific clothes, an so on. All of which are things required of other religions. So while I find your overall point that the modern church does not behave like the early church to be correct, it is not all bad. Many things, yes, need to look more like the early church, but that doesn't mean we can't do other things like sings songs to God as a collective, something that is quite unifying, and glorifying to God. My church does need to make some changes in terms of lateral focus and all that, but God gives us some room for choice. As long as our traditions are not idols/legalism then they are not inherently bad and can be judged on an individual basis. Also, just a note that you have hour long uninterrupted lectures but say that "sermons" shouldn't be longer than 20minutes because our attention spans are too short. If people want to hear a long message of biblical lessons/exegesis, they will listen.
yes I was agreeing with what you say -dare I say we are defensive of what we already have. But we can always improve. I think of all the wisdom in our church, people who have been believers longer than I have been alive - and yet we never hear from them as a group. I see the small home-connect groups as more places that the biblical model can flourish. Even they can sometimes be mini-churches, with one person leading and others being passive. We can always grow and learn and be more like Christ. I think the big take away for me was do all of this to edify one another and love one another. this series of videos you are right were an hour long and we can listen to them, because they are relevant and not guilt-tripping or making us feel inadequate. Probably we lose interest when we feel we are getting 'told' once again we are not good enough, or we are set unrealistic examples
The reason his talk is an hour long is because he has 7 hours worth of material to present, and it is interesting enough to hold attention. It is a lecture, not a sermon. I often worship with a group who share the preaching duties among several of the men in the congregation. I don’t know if it’s tradition or expressed instruction, but they always preach 45 minutes to an hour, including when they only have 15 minutes worth of material. It can be excruciating! 😂
I have not ever really been a part of a ‘church’ since my conversion 30 years ago. I tried. Sometimes I’ve even lasted a couple of months ‘attending’ one, but it’s always felt dry, cold, and most of the ‘sermons’ boring or like a bad comedy show. The whole thing is artificial and quite frankly is a business. Even the pastors are called ‘executive pastors’ and loving and discipling others, is called ‘mentoring’. They use the business worlds language. They don’t even hide it. Jesus showed me I didn’t belong in these pseudo businesses a long time ago. It has been incredibly lonely, but I have grown closer to Jesus as a result. I just wish there was actually the option of a home fellowship. They don’t seem to be easy to find and I’m not sure all that many exist where I live.
@@royfredericks2231 it is true you said however, was he just visiting and spending as much time as he could because he was moving onto another place? (I’m sorry I didn’t look up that specific scripture right now).
I suppose an interactive approach involving the audience in small group teaching of the scriptures. Teaching from Genesis to Revelation a verse by verse ,chapter by chapter ,book by book. 🎉
I wonder what the audience took away from that. Any lecture longer than about 40 minutes is a waste of very one's time. Even 'taking notes' doesn't help because it splits one's attention. The way adults learn is like at Uni: readings, then discuss in a tutorial, then submit an essay. The 'discuss' is the most important part of the process.
@@jacobpursley1800 that has nothing to do with loving the word of God. Especially after you have been at work all day and it's a Wednesday night and your kids have school the next day.
lets just bring the gosple to unbelievers and pray for them ! dont worry abour all this stuff cos God can use it all for this for his glory ....going to church building i have been able to meet people and pray for them ., since i dont work and am a stay home mom . im planning on having a gathering in my home once i get my garage cleaned out for bible studys food and coffee and to edify one another :D
it is written that Jacob, deceiver/heel catcher, had his name changed to Israel, he wrestles with God. Yah's people are still called Israel-- so still wrestling with God... or at least wrestling with His word. in my understanding, first century synagogues did not have the Greek amphitheatre/ stage - audience set up, but more like a theater in the round, with the scroll(s) of the Tanakh set out on a table in the center of the room. this table would be on a slightly elevated space called the Bema. someone would read a portion of the Text and they would discuss it. the architecture literally reinforced the idea that discussing the Text in community was the point. since early believers didn't have access to the hebrew text outside of synagogues or having memorized it themselves, it seems to me that they would have done similarly in their homes... as well as likely praying for one another and encouraging one another with hymns and spiritual songs. reminding each other of the lord's goodness. ymmv
While evangelism is a spiritual gift, we are also told in 1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:. If you are given the opportunity by God to give the gospel or any answer to any question people might have, it is our responsibility to have studied the word to be able to answer any question they ask, but in particular how to be saved. People seem to think it is the church's (meaning the pastor's) responsibility to evangelize unbelievers. No, it is his responsibility to grow the believers to be able to evangelize.
There are some fellowships/churches that practice 1 Cor 14. I won't fellowship in one that doesn't. I have offended more than one "preacher or pastor" by stating this. All "Born Again" can claim this: But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. I'm sorry to say and remind those men that closed churches during Covid that the Church belongs to Jesus Christ and no other. Those that closed churches and or limited the fellowship of the saints are disqualified from any leadership in the church. We haven't forgotten.
Good question. Over the years, there have been times when I did have gatherings in my house. But most of my closest Christian friends have been members of a local church, and I have no interest in "stealing sheep" from congregations in my area. I also don't see any NT mandate that forbids Christians from meeting in non-house facilities. Part of the power of the Christian faith is that it can thrive in any culture and in any building.
@@tomwadsworth Indiana Raised Roman Catholic Received Christ as Saviour in Full Gospel Baptist church was in a prosperity church which almost destroyed my faith in church but not in Christ Now I go to different background congregations Known for sometime that what you taught in these lessons is the way the body of Christ is supposed to be as there is a great house church movement among the persecuted suffering church.
@@tomwadsworth I agree, the NT is indifferent to a lot of options in how we organize church, but what it sticks on is what Tom has been saying. What it is poor at is evangelism, on what Greg Koukl calls 'gardening' and generally being an ambassador for Christ. As 'ambassadors' we can bring a Christian world view to bear on discussions, not in 'quote the Bible' mode, but in terms of kind but critical questioning of presuppositions and positions. Also the general knowledge of most Christians of the overall story line of the Bible, its theology, the history of the Bible and of the church is way bad.
Absolutely loving hearing your thoughts on all this, thanks so much for putting these videos on here! I just heard you say, "when I got out of the ministry." Did you actually mean that as stated, or is it another example of how we can so easily get caught out by a historical way of speaking that evolved from a corrupted way of thinking about Christ's church? Blessings!
Good point. Truth is, I've never "gotten out of the ministry," but there was a point when I stopped doing "full-time paid ministry." In retrospect, leaving the 'full-time paid ministry" was a key move that freed me from any obligations to teach what my employer wanted me to teach. For almost 40 years now, I've been free to study and interpret the biblical documents without institutional interference or restrictions.
@@tomwadsworth Thanks so much for your answer, brother! At least you know I'm listening carefully! 😊 I asked because I'm still thinking through the historical argument that there are two kinds of priest in the New Testament - the 'common' priest and the 'ministerial' one. And subsequently, whether the idea that the presbyter is in the 'ministry' in a way that the lay person isn't, is accepted by Evangelicals or just accidentally adopted in inherited terminology. Thanks again so much!
Watch the video. Peter's "sermon" is not called a "sermon" anywhere in Acts 2. The word "sermon" is a modern convention; the word is never found in the Bible ... not even in the "Sermon on the Mount." Peter was not giving a speech to a Christian assembly; he was proclaiming the gospel to a large body of unconverted Jews. Watch the video.
Here at lesson #4, so many points you’ve brought up until this point ring true with me. Maybe in time you will address the fact that the model you’re talking about is difficult to find?
Start a home church In ur home! When it’s too big, get another family to host some of the others Keep the gathering small, remember ppl will bring kids & babies and older ppl w/WCs maybe Start Bible studies n “grow from” there. Just don’t aim for a bldg and budget Aim for honoring Him and edifying each other
For most Christians, when tradition conflicts with the Bible, tradition wins. If you are a Christian who want to follow and practice what's in Scripture, traditional Christians will mostly ignore you. For all the talk of sola scriptura amongst Protestants, when push comes to shove, the Scripture is nowhere to be found. It is so refreshing to see Tom Wadsworth explain scripturally why American traditional churchianity is to a great extent bunkum, and quite boring.
@@tomwadsworth I'm from South Carolina. Grew up Presbyterian. Now I'm attending a Reformed Baptist church, but not a member, because I can't sign their doctrinal statement, which contradicts my beliefs in New Covenant Theology. Most of my Christian life has been in house churches in South Carolina and China (where I lived for about 23 years).
If you record this another time, please make it clear regarding the Temple, Temple Courts, and Temple Complex. "Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah." Acts 5:42 NIV. Many Christians envision that Paul went into the Temple to preach, but he was in the outer courts debating from Scripture that Jesus is the Christ.
There's a reason Jesus say's call no one your Father, Teacher or Leader. The point is that we are all equal brothers and sisters in Christ- regardless of differing gifts or abilities. Is it not therefore sin to call someone Pastor Anything or for such an individual leader to allow the sheep to address him with one of these titles? How about the stationary or signs out front that clearly states who runs the show at that particular church? This is just one way in which these leaders refuse to be accountable and disobey an obvious biblical command. If any of these "leaders" really wanted to obey God they would abandon these positions and the advantages over the saints just as you did.
I've been waiting for someone to ask this question! In my view, Paul's statements about 'women speaking' were culturally driven, just like his statements about the veil (1 Cor 11:2-16). In my gatherings, I encourage women to speak. Their input is too valuable to be squelched. But I recognize that some church cultures--even today--may have a problem with women speaking. As Paul said, we must not force someone to do something that their conscience won't allow (Rom 14).
@@tomwadsworth What is driving 1 Timothy 2:12? In verse 13 it is creation, in verse 14 it is sin. No so called "culture" driving anything here except perhaps contemporary culture driving your own avoidance of the culturally uncomfortable conclusion.
Honestly, to the point about the sermon being the primary edifying feature of a service...not true in many services. I know a church where the worship pastor was fired. He went down the street and 90% of the congregation followed. Many attendees tolerate sermons just to get to the praise and music segment with all the attendant edification that goes with.
Just need to find a Bible believing Church family. Worship on Sundays word ,music etc. Small group Bible studies during week. On Churches and worship services how do you explain eople being saved and experiencing The Holy Spirit , as my experience. Not sure Wadsworth's trying to go with this.
Finally, a sensible comment amidst all these. If possible, it should be both/and, not either/or. Unless believers are in a region where Christianity is extremely persecuted, I believe there is great benefit to a large gathering of believers where the word of God is expounded and Christ crucified is preached. Balance is the key, and is only found in Scripture rightly divided. Mr. Wadsworth has a few valid points but used too broad of a brush. When he pertains to 'churches' like Hillsong, Elevation, or Lakewood, then he's spot on. But he also misrepresented organized churches that teach sound doctrine and do both big and small (house) gatherings. Hopefully, Mr. Wadsworth be more specific. Seems to me that the extreme advocates of the house church movement want nothing to do with submission to appointed authorities while also getting a few moments in the spotlight - another version of me-first, man-centered approach. Viewers, discern...
He didn't incarnate the message because though he invited questions and comments, it was obvious he treated them as interruptions, and got right back to his lecture. Probably wanted to cover his material in a time frame.
It seems to me you're creating a false dichotomy between the horizontal and vertical dimensions of church meetings, emphasizing the former at the expense of the latter. The New Testament frequently depicts vertically-oriented activities (especially prayer, prophecy, praises and hymns sung to God) as intended or actually taking place in congregational settings. See, for example, Matthew 21:13; Mark 11:17; Luke 2:36-37; 19:46; Acts 1:24; 2:1, 42; 14:23; 16:13, 16; 1 Corinthians 14:2-5, 15-16, 22-32; Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 1:3, etc. Preaching and teaching - both of which I see as combining the horizontal and vertical - are also depicted as taking place in congregational settings, as in Matthew 4:24; 9:35; Acts 20:20; Romans 1:25; 16:25; 1 Corinthians 4:17; 14:6, etc. Indeed, the whole book of Hebrews is a homily.
@tomwadsworth another Biiiiiiiig issue is that the Pastor becomes the spiritual authority, even above God and Bible. God, Bible, understanding is what he says it is. A very common response from Christians is "but my pastor says..." instead of "but the Bible says...", it's almost pastor/church worship. and thus we have tens of denominations and doctrines that every member is fully committed to. If you tell them that their pastor teaching is not biblical they go and consult with that pastor to confirm instead of checking scriptures. It's very cult-like.
@@tomwadsworth grew up in cali but now in ga. grew up as Pentecostal, but could tell something was off, and went to non-denominational. in ga attended mostly Baptist, not many non-denomiational around, but one claimed to be independent even tho it had Baptist in it's name. they thought the same gospel as Pentecostals, which is Jesus can get u in the heaven if u can keep yourself out of hell by good works, which none of us could ever reconcile. of course, not tithing was a sure way to end up in hell. although they were very clever how they presented that one.
Pleasant good day to all didn't they pray and fasted durimg these gathering and collected offerings and minister those who had the knowledge to do so to edify the new converts. What is prayer if it's not worship. When they fasted and prayed the Paul will be loosed out of prison what exactly do you call that? The early Church (first century) worshipped in Jewish synagogues on Saturday, and then met in their own private homes on Sunday morning. Near the end of the first century, the Christians were expelled from the synagogues, so most of them met in private homes for the next 150 years or so. The earliest known Christian building set aside exclusively for worship was built around 240 AD. You should ask the question why have christians abandoned the Sabbath commandment when the early church obviously kept the sabbath. He that breaketh the lease of the commandments are guilty of all. We are to be most of all walking in obedience to God. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Not entirely accurate - here are a couple examples. At Antioch (Acts 13:14-16) Paul was in the synagogue again speaking to the people. This makes 84 times in the book of Acts Paul was recorded as being in the synagogue on the Sabbath day teaching and speaking to people after the death of Jesus. So Paul was in the Synagogue (AKA church) teaching. Now, of course there were "house churches" but to say there was no meeting is a bit misleading. In fact when Paul came to Corinth, Luke records that Paul “reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks” (Acts 18:4). Again, we see that Paul's habit was to observe the Sabbath by going to the synagogue “every” Sabbath.
Serious question: was Paul observing the Sabbath according to the Law at this point, or was he going to the temple to evangelize to those who were gathered there, still waiting for Messiah?
@@alittlepeace9562 Nothing to do with Sabbath, Rather The Synagogues were in Roman/Greek city's .Sabbath jus shows they were on a regular Jewish worship day. The equivalent of our church today. A study of what the Synagogue service was like will show a definite similarity. This was the basic structure, although there were variations as there are today. Shema: The central prayer of Judaism, affirming the oneness of God. Tefillah: Additional prayers and supplications. Torah Reading: A portion of the Torah would be read aloud and explained by a scholar. Haftarah: A reading from the Prophets, often related to the Torah portion. Sermon: A commentary on the readings, often delivered by a rabbi or other respected figure. Benedictions: Concluding prayers and blessings. The idea of no service usually is related to Justin Martyr but that would be out of range for this.
Youre full of it . Yes they did hold service with sermons , or HOW could the church tell the congregation what to do ? That’s is what was happening in the UK . That’s why there is no religion recognized in our government , but we are allowed to use religion as a GUIDE .
A very good lecture but it misses the bigger picture. The #1 purpose of 1st century meetings was to celebrate the blessed sacrament as a sacrifice; it was not for sermons be they either monologues or dialogues. The analogy to 1st century Judaism (ie the lives of Jesus and his disciples) is this: Jesus and his disciples when to the Temple for sacrifice, and they went to the Synagogue (a different place for a different purpose) for scripture discussion. As Jesus predicted, the Temple was destroyed (in 70AD), to be replaced by his own body risen in 3 days (John 2: 19-22). When the first Christians met as Christians it was not to study Scripture (the New Covenant/Testament was not written, but was according to Jesus his own body and blood - see Luke 22:20), and Christian Jews would still attend synagogue for prayer/sermons until the later in the first century when Pharasite Jews expelled them from the synagogues. To this day, both in the East (orthodox, oriental and eastern Christians) and the West (the various catholic faiths) the homily (ie sermon) may be omitted because listening to someone else is not the point of church attendance - the point is to come into communion with Christ and join your imperfect sacrifice to his perfect sacrifice and receive his grace. For hundreds of years, Christians never heard a sermon in church and never needed to, because what mattered was faith in the sacrifice of Christ and to participate in that. The activities of scripture study, alms giving, hospice and charity (noting it was Christians that invented universities, hospitals and charities) were important activities but none of it happened by "going to church". "Going to church" was more important - and this remains the case for orthodox, oriental and catholic faiths - because what "going to church" entails is firstly a mystical participation in Christ, and only after that come the satisfaction of intellectual and other worldly needs.
Obey the Gospel- taught by the Apostles Hear- Romans 10:17, Matthew 11:15, Acts 18:8, Acts 28:28 Believe- John 5:24, Mark 16:16, Acts 16:31-33, Acts 18:8. Confess- 1 John 4:15, Romans 10:9-10, Acts 8:35-38. Repent- Luke 13:3, Acts 2:38, Acts 3:19, Matthew 9:13 Acts 17:30-31. Baptized for remission of sins- John 3:5, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Acts 8:5-13, Acts 8:35-38, Acts 9:17-19, Acts 10:47-48, Acts 16:13-15, Acts 16:31-33, Acts 18:8, Acts 19:1-5, Acts 22:16, Matthew 28:19-20. Then God adds you into the Church- Acts 2:41, Acts 2:47, Colossians 2:12, Galatians 3:27, Romans 6:3-11. Study the Scriptures daily- 2 Timothy 2:15. Endure to the end- Matthew 24:13.
Unless believers are in a region where Christianity is extremely persecuted, I believe there is great benefit to a large gathering of believers where the word of God is expounded and Christ crucified is preached. Balance is the key, and is only found in Scripture rightly divided. Mr. Wadsworth has a few valid points but used too broad of a brush. If he pertains to 'churches' like Hillsong, Elevation, or Lakewood, then he's spot on. But he also misrepresented organized churches that teach sound doctrine and do both big and small (house) gatherings. Hopefully, Mr. Wadsworth would be more specific. Seems to me that the extreme advocates of the house church movement want nothing to do with submission to appointed authorities while also getting a few moments in the spotlight - another version of me-first, man-centered approach. Viewers, discern...
If the "spotlight" is the opportunity to share with and teach others then yes many people do want that. The scriptures support the fact that we should be teaching others at some point. The structure of most "churches" doesn't allow it.
@@doreenscott4223 thats why our church gathers as a smaller group as well...there, we discuss, get encouraged, given opportunities to lead, teach, expose Scripture, and get edified as Mr Wadsworth had said. Apologies if that is not happening to your local body if youre ever in one. Thats why, balance is needed.
The unhelpful interjections of the listeners here may help to explain why uninterrupted sermons have become the norm in church assemblies. The teacher needs to teach. Maybe questions afterwards may help on occassion.
The interjectors clearly were not able to grasp what Tom was even getting at! How frustrating. But also for such a formal presentation, questions at the end, please.
I think the Catholic or orthodox church goes back to apostolic times and how they celebrated their fellowships. I know a lot has changed since the 3rd century but the Catholic church still has remnants of how early worship was done. I tnink there is enough interpretation out there, so sermons have become shorter and at least in the Catholic church the Eucharist or communion is the central theme of the celebration.
@@katylee1914 well for one we do not have the jumping and dancing, no disco lights or swaying, no eccessive drums and guitaring, no payment for sermons, no emphasis on eloquence of speech, no emphasis on feeling good. In contrast there is focus on Eucharist which is fellowship communion, hymns based on psalms, simple piano and acoustic guitar, readings from OT, Letters and Gospels, and a small sermon. All centered around adoration of Jesus Christ.
Did Jesus preach sermons? What was the significance of the temple in the old and new testament and specifically where God's presence was during the old covenant and today? What did Jesus say about the temple and the place of worship? Although you have a Phd, it is difficult to get the point you're trying to make - it sounds like you're embrasing legalism - give more historical facts about if all people were educated and about deacons and elders etc. Then most important how worship changed from the old to the new covenant
Did Jesus preach "sermons"? Well, the gospels certainly confirm that he "preached," but the word 'sermon' is a much-later convention, and it's odd to place it in the context of Jesus' ministry. See Worship #4 Why They Didn't Preach Sermons in the Early Church th-cam.com/video/hV8H2fx2Y6U/w-d-xo.html What was the significance of the temple? See Worship #3 The Temple That Changed Everything th-cam.com/video/jD00uwVXCQY/w-d-xo.html In my view, there's no comparing what Jews did in the temple to what Christians did in their gatherings. While they both had some singing and prayer, they had stark differences in (1) Purpose, (2) Frequency, (3) Activities, (4) Building Requirements, (5) Leadership, (6) Cleric Accoutrements, et al. In time, though, Christians reverted back to adopting temple concepts for their meetings. See Worship #6 How the Later Church Developed Worship Services th-cam.com/video/4CfNZbjK6Sg/w-d-xo.html.
@@tomwadsworth the motivation for my questions is this - what is the significance of your studies? what lesson do you want to teach us? is it just for historical knowledge? what is it that we must apply? and then, most important, the question of legalism - does this promote legalism and if not what in your findings will enhance or strengthen my relationship with Jesus?
@@francoisgoosen9529 I never thought that my teaching promotes legalism. I personally loathe legalism. Ultimately, the message at the end of the road of my studies is this: Christians need to be constantly improving ... getting better ... becoming wiser, more compassionate, more understanding, gentler, kinder, more patient, more loving, etc. I fear that our modern approach to assemblies is not helping people mature in Christ. But I'm persuaded that the first century approach to assemblies is indeed designed to "edify" and build up Jesus' disciples. If you haven't already, see Worship #7 What Do We Do Now? th-cam.com/video/CGPSQVoZrMg/w-d-xo.html
Let two or three prophets speak and let the others judge.........I believe prophesy here is simply speaking forth the truth in some aspect - a foretelling of a future event would not need to be judged as such .....oh your speaking of this now as I write it...crazy
Why did they have football fields in the temple? Who uses football fields as a measurement? Who the heck watches American football and who would know such trivial information as how big an area it covers? Haven't you heard of metres, hectares or even for USA citizens still in the dark ages, acres?
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What a timely message and a blessing to me right now I am so disgruntled with how churches operate today. I've never been so lonely as a single woman on Sunday
No one seems to fellowship anymore after a service. It's like a fast food experience. Sing three songs a half hour sermonette and everybody scatters like cockroaches an hour later. I have looked for house gatherings unsuccessfully. The only solution is to start one.. Thank you for these teachings they're actually a God send for me
You are right. I think our lifestyle today is way different than it was in the 1st century. People are task based and scurry to jump to next task.
@@therighteousrighthandso so true
It is difficult to do the New Testament model in this mad world
House church
Start one yourself and let God lead you ❤
I agree - I go alone too I haven’t been committed in years after getting saved since 81’ I have a problem with the big church as of the last 6 years or so - I started a ladies group but all my ladies in our study got to busy for regular fellowship in the last 2 years our fellowship is represented just what is taught here - I’m hoping things change and we get back together… and I hope you find a fellowship too
Try to find a church that has various classes and then just attend the class you like and skip the boring sermon.
God richly bless you to bless many others.
"One Anothering" is a profound reminder. I left the corporate church system 5 years ago and I do not miss it at all. My daughter recently hosted a women's interactive Bible study and prayer requests. It was a profoundly uplifting time, and it occurred to me... THIS is what the Acts church did!! May the Lord continue to use you to enlighten us believers.
Women were silent in the new testament gatherings. Oh how far we have fallen!
Wow. You really think enlighten? I agree with much said here and have no need to hurt anyone. But most folks I know were saved by a “joint” use by Holy Spirit of organized church and Christian friends and influences. Nothing new here regarding throwing church organizations today under the bus.
@PhilipBaker-sf4yv not if head covered to pray or prophesy
@@grenvillebiddulph2126 and where does it say that?
@@grenvillebiddulph2126 That very passage says a woman's hair is her covering, so as long as she has a reasonable amount of hair she isn't in violation.
The grief of wanting to follow Christ and getting stuck time and time again in dead church. I appreciate this channel!
Myself and 2 of my friends who are Christians are going to start doing our own at home Bible study and fellowship each week. I feel like I really need this more than the “show “ I see on Sundays
Excellent! As you do this, keep Love (1 Cor 13) and Edification (1 Cor 14) as your two guiding principles.
Tom, your teaching is speaking a powerful word into my heart. My wife and I struggle in the contemporary churches and we’ve settled in with a small group of believers who love each other and share communion. It’s such a refreshing, joyful change of perspective.
God bless you and keep you.
This teacher is eloquently putting this ideas where I was unsure how to say them, and much much more. I am so grateful for him.
Your videos were immensely beneficial in aiding in my strengthening confidence in my journey away from the institution of church. Over the last 2 years my relationship with the Lord grew exponentially by deepening my individual prayer and scripture studies and fellowshipping with family, friends, and strangers alike. It is lonely at times though as this belief is quite minimal all around me.
Thanks for the comments. Even though my intention was not to inhibit attachment to the institutional church, it's clear that the NT church was much more relational and not building based.
Do you mind telling me ...What state/country are you from, and To what denomination are you most accustomed?
@@tomwadsworth I haven’t completely stopped visiting churches but do not feel the need to attend every Sunday. lol I’m in Kentucky. I’ve spent the last 20 years attending mostly non denominational church. I currently attend a progressive Baptist church.
You just presented a great argument against a single bishop pastor pope model. In spite of how much pastors groan and complain about how much is on their shoulders, virtually none of them will embrace a New Testament model because they’d lose all of their power and most of their income.
Our churches are built after the Roman Catholic Church system where each pastor is a mini-pope!
They usually expect TITHES which Biblically only were given to those of the tribe of Levi who ministered in the Temple-Sanctuary. They not 100% all expenses paid the tithes were FOOD not cash. They each had small plots of land and their own gardens and livestock in the Levitical cities. They also when not serving their rounds in Jerusalem, served as public servants at home. The Council of Macon in the 500s declared that tithes to the Catholic changed from 10% crops and animals to 10% of wages. The Protestant churches in the past century have adoped this Catholic pattern. Often in those old Catholic monisteties they had cottage industries such as growing grapes for a winery. But what makes todays pastors believe they should not lift a finger to earn extra income to help support their families and not be such a burden on their churches?
Even the Rabbis of which we read in the in the NT each had
jobs----wood chopping, shoe making, doing laundry, etc! Check out the subject of RABBI in the Jewish Encyclopedia online.
You are so correct - I've been ringing that bell for years. 'Pastors' are paid but everyone else is expected to serve - just so hypocritical. Just like the video states, preaching isn't something in the assembly - so what is the modern pastor paid for. Preaching is something the evangelists does and this is why Paul said he could have asked for money but from those he was evangelisizing to. As a believer you are not being evangelize.
No one in the NT had the title Pastor. Jesus commanded against such titles among the brethren. Matthew 23: 8-12
100% correct - the Pastors only know the current model - they probably think its suffering for Christ to be buried in admin and meetings when really its just suffering because we struggle to follow Jesus way
Indeed,
abandoning the institutional church model in favor of a family and interpersonal relationship based church, is the greatest terror to those who want the church offices, the paychecks, and NONE of the responsibilities of actually shepherding the church and sacrificing for the good of the congregation, with immense accountability.
Thank you for the helpful lesson.
Since Covid I have been reconsidering the entire purpose and structure of the Church. This message fits into, confirms and strengthens my new vision for the Church. By God's grace, we will go more towards one-anothering. God bless you.
Amen, amen, AMEN! I have felt confusion and guilt for thinking these things about the rituals of church 'services' for most of my life. Many go home after a church service feeling gently alienated from Christendom - and from our heavenly Father. I love praising God in song, but prefer to do it spontaneously (and, honestly, privately), and certainly without a team on microphones to lead and drown out the other wonderful voices of brother and sister believers. I love conversing with people, encouraging and comforting (which you can sometimes do AFTER the service, but very quickly before everyone leaves). I love biblical teaching (so it's a problem if the sole pastor is not gifted for the purpose but is still forcing himself to preach for 30-60 mins because that's what you DO at church). The emphasis is on conforming to modern church structure. To participate in limited, carefully defined, and sometimes quite meaningless ways.
Each church I've been in does seem to live and die by its head pastor (or maybe its worship team). If a pastor moves on, the church risks collapsing from within. The new leader may inherit an unsatisfied (and unsatisfactory) group and try to shape them into the flock he wished for. It's not surprising to hear that people tend to leave most after a change in leadership, but it is sad. We HAVE a shepherd. We can all be equipped for every good work, we can all study to show ourselves approved, we can all be part of the body and show love and mercy to one another.
Sometimes, when evangelism is the only purpose valued, church leaves me feeling either used or useless. Believers matter too!!! When we look after each-other... When we LOVE one another... This is how the world knows that we are His disciples.
Excellent comments. You definitely understood my presentation. For me, your best comment was: "Church leaves me feeling either used or useless."
Do you mind telling me ...What state are you from, and To what denomination are you most accustomed?
I am from Western Australia
Feeling the same
Questioning or talking to elders or pastors about this has got nowhere over the decades
Home church and small connect groups work so much better
THANK YOU for sharing this ❤
A shared potluck type or bagged lunch meal each week after the meeting is awesome to schedule fellowship consistently
Some home churches will also have another meeting after with young ones put down for a nap
Or have communion
Then more fellowship and maybe families going to each others homes for a bite to eat for supper.
A day well spent WITH One Another
(Children are trained to be quiet if not sit, for the first meeting; they are part of the day, not shuttled off to “out of the way”)
Thank you for being yourself (real). This is a great teaching and has motivated me to study more on this subject👍🏽🙏🏽
The purpose of “preaching” is to get people saved; the purpose of teaching is to edify, equip and mature the saints. Good presentation, by the way.
Do you mind telling me ...What state are you from, and To what denomination are you most accustomed?
@@tomwadsworth I am in Florida. I began in the AG but have been nondenominational for a long time now, hosting a home church for 20 years at this point.
@@davidward5225if you don't mind, what part of Florida? I'm near Dunnellon and searching for my people
@@stevescuba1978oh wow I was just living in Dunedin near Keene!
I love home churching
@@YeshuaKingMessiah God bless!
Be bold
Start a home church
Let God lead you ❤
That's how many current denominations had their start....In time you just end up with another flawed denomination.
Thank you for these teachings, very helpful. Maybe all the closings of "churches" during the pandemic was God telling us to come out of her.
Over the years I have used your ‘cork’ analogy re church leadership, except I used ceiling instead.
A pastor is usually not even the most spiritual or learned person in the room ever and he’s on Payroll.
Thank you so much l for your insight delivered with humour in this refreshing, Spirit led, congregation inclusive message.
Count me in. Let’s do this together.
I agree and supporrt all points. We GET to grow.
I'm only a half hour into it so far, but this is EXCELLENT. I intend to share this like crazy as it's thorough and scholarly -- even though it should all be obvious to anyone who simply reads their bibles anyway. I'm SO glad that someone is doing this work, and I hope it becomes more of a thing. I'm about to go pretty hard on this sort of thing as I see that the sermon routine discourages individual empowerment, involvement, and growth, going around in circles, allegedly "learning," whereas you have 1st year Christians listening to the same so-called "teaching" as fifty-year-old ones. It has to go.
I don't share your sympathy for pastors, though. Even since being a very young Christian, the role that today's "pastors" take on is a total fool's errand and the Bible pretty much says so: just look at Moses' father-in-law who had the sense to say what one man couldn't do singlehandedly.
I stopped attending church years ago because the whole structure felt so off. I got incredibly tired of listening to sermons that were catered to a general audience. I got tired of having no indepth fellowship with other believers because we all wore our Sunday best masks. It finally dawned on me that my church wasn't for Christians it was for unbelievers who didn't know anything about the bible. I've often wondered how the early church conducted their meetings, so this message much appreciated.
Thanks for your honest remarks. Your comments resonate with me on several levels. Speaking for myself, I find that the most edifying Christian gatherings are adult Bible studies/classes where the leader encourages frank and open comments by everyone.
Do you mind telling me ...What state are you from, and To what denomination are you most accustomed?
Then you aren’t in a believing gathering. You admitted it. So you left and went to more false beliefs.
Sunday gathering isn’t the end. You are to fellowship continually! Who failed? Did you not get her with believers on other days? Did you not see out a church (gathering) on Sundays where they know it’s to teach believers? No. You followed this video and fell more.
@HappyPenguin75034 I have wonderful fellowship and incredible indepth bible studies all the time. I don't need a formal church structure to experience those things. My relationship with God isn't based on church attendance.
Jesus said there was coming a time when God would seek those who worship him in spirit and truth. It's not about which mountain you chose to worship at.
I'm not opposed to churches. I think it's unfair for you to characterize me as fallen and going to more false beliefs. What do you mean by that?
@@HappyPenguin75034 Wow. You really missed the point, and I suspect that you never watched the video.
My husband and I became missionaries in Japan. We'd a great Bible study for our students called Firm Foundations. From Genesis to Revelation. We sat around a table with students and read Bible based on the study. It truly taught the entire purpose and picture of Jesus. We learned more in those informal classes than in years of services and even 2 years at Bible college. We were able to pause discuss and see the Wonder of salvation unfold from Gen to Rev.
Edification!!
Your "Excursus" at 59:55 really went off the Traditionalists' track. You are the first person I have heard give a scriptural reason why "The Great Commission" and evangelism is not for all believers. Just yesterday, I made a comment to a video by a couple where they were talking about their house church experience. Their motivation for house church was to "go make disciples". I think house church is the way to go but not for evangelism. I wrote what you said (before I heard it today) except I wrote that Jesus spoke "The Great Commission" to the eleven (11), I think Judas was already dead at that time. Thanks for the "Excursus" and all your work. I'm 75 and a believer for 45 years.
My Mom was a wise & gracious Pastor's wife, always forgiving, a gentle tongue,
never given to gossip.
So good! So right! Good research. Very significant. Let's honor and respect the early church apostles and how they did church.
You're not guessing, that is a fact. A friend once wrote an article called, "The silencing of the lambs" which makes the point perfectly as well.
Wow this is excellent!
This has been very edifying and i am getting so much out of this. I think it was William Booth!! (salvation army), who said that we are mummifying Christians in the pews.
"Mummifying" is a good word. In other words, when Christians sit down in a pew, they are essentially climbing into their casket, eliminating their usefulness to anyone around them. The notion is a bit extreme, but I think Booth (?) has a point.
Tom, I like your view that everyone has something (perspective) to add. I know that topographical maps (those with the appearance of 3D) were once made by an airplane with a camera that could shoot a ton of pictures as the plane flew over the landscape. Each frame obviously had a slightly different angle of view. By overlapping the frames a 3D appearance takes shape and gives the viewer a better perspective of the real landscape. This, IMO, is exactly what happens when many people are allowed to give their interpretation of things. We are able to get a fuller, more accurate exposition of faith, scriptures, etc.
The word pastor in Greek means "shepherd." The word "preach" means to proclaim. The word gospel means "good news". The word church means "assembly" in Greek. The word disciple means "follower/student" in Greek. Modern Bibles translate these words badly, leaning on tradition rather than what the Greek actually means.
Yes!
Same with 'Angels' and 'Baptism'. They are mythological transliterations. Meaning they are not accurate and are the result of religious minded fantasists. This is why no Bible is to be taken too seriously. It's clearly written by man - the thing you are reading, is written by man.
The Torah was written by God. I'm not sure the New Testament needs to be.
If the actual word was translated, the Bible would say 'Messenger' and not Angel. 'Immersion' and not 'Baptism'.
Angel and Baptism have become religious mythology that stokes the imagination but veils what Scripture actually says.
No church I’ve ever attended, even those I loved, offered training in teaching.
thats the issues in most churches in america. they do not teach. they tell you what to do, but not how to do it.
Didn't make disciples and then that disciple would go out and assemble his own assembly. Idk... I have thought this and agree with you man.
That was fantastic! I have been sharing your presentations with a friend in Florida, and he is loving them.
He can’t win because he’s taken on more than he should. In the 1 Corinthians 14 scenario there isn’t just one man in charge of everything.
I do not feel sorry for pastors at all. They need to step off the physically elevated place and join with the others called to pastor and teach.
The reason churchianity is such a mess is that we are doing it man’s way instead of Gods way.
I’ve been a part for 47 years so I’ve seen a lot.
Divorce in the church is the same as in the world.
I think it’s like 60 % of all children once they are out of college never go back.
Pastors quitting or wanting to is skyrocketing.
I’m done watching ( and even being a part of) a “ praise team” being elevated on a stage and I’m done listening to some man go on for an hour without anyone having a chance to join in like a conversation.
I’m tired of them whining and crying about how they are treated by the sheep and then not take any responsibility for the way they treat the sheep.
Anytime someone does leave a church, that person is always blamed.
One guy gets paid while everyone else is expected to work for free.
This whole clergy over laity model is disgusting.
I’m just 10 min in, resuming now. 👍🏼
EXACTLY AMEN, THE SHEEP DONT GROW AND THE CHURCH IS NOT BIBLICAL.
divorce is the same in the church as outside for multiple reasons.
1. Who goes to church? Those who are in trouble. Church has a disproportionate amount of troubled people in it, because of who it is for. This isn't a bad thing.
2. If you account for those who are dedicated members who attend with their spouse, read the bible regularly, and pray regularly the number drops precipitously.
In the last decade my small church, which does have problems and needs some reform as talked about in this series, has had maybe 400 different adults attend semi-regularly for at least 6months over the last 9 years I have been there. We typically have about 80-120 adults on any given Sunday. We have had a lot of turnover. However, only one couple who attended for maybe 2 years and served in 0 capacity in the church, got divorced. Only one couple.
In my observation. "Church" is a boring spectator sport. No wonder men don't like to go. Women do because it's emotional and social. But even that is missing in an era of dark rooms, fog machines, and loud music. No one even shakes your hand.
Don’t even get me started on fog machines and loud music. Sometimes I feel I’m attending a concert. The musicians get tired of the same songs so change them frequently, then they have an audience just standing there listening. Or, they repeat certain lines over and over like mantras. I love music. I don’t love contemporary “Christian” popular songs. Fog machines are transparently “mood setting”. Sorry if I sound grumpy.😐
Sorry to hear that - but that is not my experience. By the time I have left a church service, I will have probably shaked between 5 and 10 hands and greeted people. I've found that making the first move to greet others positively, works almost every time and other people appreciate the care that you show them and the intention that you go to church with.
@@thestraightroad305 Grump away! I'll grump with you. I hate all that stuff. Modern "worship" music is inane, musically illiterate and the lyrics generally repetitive (vain repetition). It's also much too loud. Is God deaf? The participants soon will be, unless they wear ear protectors! I recently left a charismatic-style church (many reasons for this, not relevant to this discussion) and I hated the so-called music. It was not uplifting or elevating to the spirit and I found it impossible to praise God through that vehicle. I do believe that praise and worship can, and should be offered to God in the form of music but we should offer Him the very best, and not this modern tat. I was saved 40 years ago and the modern music then was singable, uplifting, and Biblically-based. Song writers such as Graham Kendrick. They never sing those songs in church these days. Also, ban the drums! Drums feature nowhere in Scripture and can have a deleterious effect on one's physiology (frequencies and vibrations) and can also cause altered states of consciousness - no wonder they feature so much in pagan stuff.
@@ShoshiPlatypus That sounds just like my story! Right down to the 40 years and Graham Kendrick! I miss that music. When it was fresh, new, and sincere to the Lord.
@@thestraightroad305 Thank you! Great stuff. Bring back the Good Old Days as far as Christian worship music is concerned! Happy 40th born-again birthday!
Worshipping, honoring and praising our creator and living our lives in his name should not be complicated,,,,, but uniform churches make it that way. The Lord Jesus has gifted us with all we need to honor him.
You obviously didn't watch any of the videos.
@@tomwadsworth I only watched the entirety of the first one and short parts of the second one as well as the third one and fourth
First mistake: Church is not a place….it’s a people
The English word "church" is the common translation of the nonreligious Greek word ἐκκλησία, which properly means "assembly." Some have spread the mistaken idea that ἐκκλησίᾳ means "called-out ones," but all the major NT Greek lexicons since the 1950s have aptly debunked this translation as a case of root fallacy or etymologizing.
While it's true that "church is not a place" (which I never said), ἐκκλησία certainly refers to an assembly, which inherently involves both people and a place. In 1 Cor 14, Paul uses the phrase ἐν ἐκκλησίᾳ three times. It is commonly translated "in church," but a better translation is probably "in assembly," or "in the meeting." See the use of the term in Acts 19, where it is used three times, not in reference to "the church," but in reference to the impromptu gathering of the Ephesus citizens.
I don’t x disagree with most of that….tho I think the root of ekklesia is kaleo which means to call.
@@mikecara8181 I suggest you look up "root fallacy" and "etymologizing," which are two common problems in lexicography (i.e., determining what words mean).
@@tomwadsworth I understand…but the concepts of the called…the chosen, etc are biblical concepts
@@tomwadsworth Thayer lexicon 1889 uses the idea of called out ones. But I don’t disagree that it means assembly….but to have an assembly you need people to assemble…and these are those called out of sin and death and called into Christ
We need to remember that congregation, assemblies were organic in their development, Jewish followers of Jesus did have synagogues. We translated the word to assembly in James, due bias translator, in revelation the same word is synagogue. But James it's assembly, when is Christian is good and when is Jewish it's bad.
I haven't left the organized church; it has left me! None in my area teach the truth!
I often feel the same way. But I think it's counterproductive to conclude that those churches don't teach the truth.
In reality, all churches are mistaken in some of their conclusions or practices on some topics. Of the hundreds of denominations, which one teaches the truth on every conceivable issue? [Answer: None.]
Extremely few churches knowingly or willingly teach falsehood. As a general rule, they're all trying to be faithful in the best way they know.
@@tomwadsworth The more you stay away from holy scripture in your preaching the more you will fall into false doctrine.
2 Timothy 4:1-6 kjv
1. I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2. Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
6. For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
Truly
Sick of all the jibberish talk
@@tomwadsworthI went to my local baptist church, and the pastor doesn’t believe in the existence of hell.
Excellent presentation. You're 'preaching to the choir' here. The lack of one-anothering in the "model" of a "modern day Christian assembly" is majorly frustrating. Unfortunately, it is so engrained that when you bring it up with other believers, you get a 'deer in the headlights' look ...... it's so sad that 'the church' - the body of believers - have evolved their gatherings to what we have today.
Exactly! As if by trying to connect in a deep meaningful way is a violation of privacy. I’ve never understood how getting dressed up, standing then sitting, singing for half an hour then saying hello and goodbye is edifying to anyone.
Start a home church!
They’re meant to be small
As they get big
They split into another home
yes so true - we have to move out of the bigger group - invite people over for coffee or lunch, ring them and pray for them - we cannot do a great deal in the larger gathering, other than more superficial. But even in the larger church gathering, we can ask - can I bless someone today, can I encourage someone today? and then we in turn are encouraged !
And some of them like the prestige,control and honor!
Preaching is all over 1 Corinthians 14. ‘But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort.’ That’s what preaching under the guidance of the Spirit in fact is.
That lady having a hard time in the middle of his presentation is the perfect example of why the Bible said women need to stay quiet in church. She doesn't know anything and had an attitude about it.
LOL!
I had the same thought but only from the perspective of how off-topic stuff can throw a speaker off and be a buzz kill for people who are tracking appropriately.
I found it hard to hear what people were saying from the meeting unfortunately, would be good if they had microphones so they were clearer
Does combining an altar call and an invitation make an altarcation?
I thank the Lord Jesus that I responded to an altar call in a church building and on my knees called out to God and met the presence of Jesus, his peace, love and joy.....which completely started a new life for me! Without having responded to that altar call decades ago, I don't know what my life would have become!
Lol. Thanks for making interactions on this site fun, as well as thoughtful. :)
The problem is ignorance. The believer must rely on The Lord and for the revelation of truth of His Word by His Spirit. We must search individually and wait on God to teach us.
At the same time Christ wants us to pray with one another in fellowship.
@@therighteousrighthandHis statement is exactly on point. Your addition to his statement is one hundred percent soulish.
No.
@@glennd81 Yes
@@therighteousrighthand I didn't ask you. The original comment is objectively wrong. This is the very reason that protestantism is a circus.
Concerning pastors: The problem with today’s churches is that we don’t embrace the five-fold ministry of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. We as the Body need to step into these different callings and edify and build up the church together. Pastors are NOT supposed to do everything. This is why there are four other apostolic offices.
The lady asking questions already answered in the previous session and then interjecting that altar calls should be done every week… after hearing from a professional with decades of experience that it’s not relevant to the service: she’s who I’m picturing in 1st Corinthians 14 😅
I just don't see any way a professional "minister" who runs a worldly religious corporation can be compared to an actual shepherd in the body of Christ. They are paid to run an organization and make it profitable. They disobey and contradict so many Biblical commands and Christian principles on a regular basis and must be held to account.
God's standard for all Christians is perfection. No, we cannot reach that standard in ourselves, but that doesn't mean we are free to continue to sin, continue to teach lies or exalt men's traditions in the place of God's commands. I've talked with a few of these individuals and called them out and none of them would repent of their errors. God is clear about how we are to treat individuals like this- especially if they are amongst us and professing faith in Christ.
We all know why too.........unless a man deny's himself and takes up his cross daily he will lose his life. None of these so-called individuals want to die to their "ministries," "their church," "their religious titles or positions," "their salaries," and especially "their reputations" as religious leaders.
I don't blame you for your decision to avoid conflict with these men. as you have been in their shoes. I however will not let them off that easy, and will call every one of them out every chance I get, and I think Jesus and the apostles would have done the same.
Your content in this video series is excellent. That said, unless the individuals hearing it are dying daily to themselves it won't really matter if they adopt and attempt to practice all of these truths. True spiritual unity and effective christian service results from this one thing- owning and embracing the fact that our old selves have been crucified with Christ and that it is no longer I who live but Christ lives in me.
We must die and Jesus' heart, mind, power and purpose must take our place. This is the only recipe for change within ourselves or throughout the world at large.
Preach the good news about the kingdom of God
At the 38 minute mark you mention something very important and I'll paraphrase it by this question; "What are the problems that result from each of these departures from the scriptures?"
Years back I wrote an article titled, "The forgotten Christian of NT Christianity" where I made a chart with these columns included:
1. What man has done (in error)
2. What God has said (in the Bible)
3. The results of what man has done
I think we need to reiterate these points by making these comparisons as you are doing. This however is the first time I recall you mentioning the third item. I often speak to others about where things originate. If something derives from God it will be approved and fruitful, if not, man's ways can be very destructive and hinder if not destroy what God is in the process of building. See the verse in Mark 7:13 as an example.
I see no way around this. If our actions and decisions don't originate with the scriptures (with God), they MUST be called out and rejected regardless of who sanctions them. Sin is sin, and error is error and God expects us to deal with such errors and people severely if we are to be faithful.
This is very interesting to me because, last year I came up to the same conclusions about preaching vs. teaching. The first is evangelizing to the lost, the second is to educate Christians so they can grow.
In the context of the early church only qualified men were allowed to speak and to lead. Women and men who did not meet the requirements were not allowed.
The "one anothering" was not open to everybody indiscriminately. Even those who were qualified to speak were to be evaluated to ensure proper teaching. Also, congregations were independent but interconnected as we see in the book of Acts to ensure that all the churches had the same teaching and that falsehood was prevented and erradicated.
Also, there was a principal or main male messenger (speaker/ teacher/ elder/ episkopos) in each church. It is called the 'angel' of the church in Revelation.
Oh my goodness heh I just noticed this one..nice..refreshing to hear some things that only got me in trouble with "church" people
Modern churches would be a lot better if they read the words of Jesus instead of preaching a sermon. That is how people can learn the truth, rather than some theological opinion.
I am staunchly opposed to the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church, but the early church is not the final state of the church. The church grew, and needed to have mechanisms to deal with it. There's nothing wrong with having a structure of authority in the church, so sure a lot of places put too much emphasis on the lead pastor, but not that many of the faithful denominations have the pastor as a totalitarian dictator. My church has a board of overseers, who handle many responsibilities. We also have an associate pastor who assists the lead pastor. And so on. As Christians we are given freedom to do things differently. We don't HAVE to chant a chant, sing a specific song, say a specific prayer, move in a specific way, wear specific clothes, an so on. All of which are things required of other religions. So while I find your overall point that the modern church does not behave like the early church to be correct, it is not all bad. Many things, yes, need to look more like the early church, but that doesn't mean we can't do other things like sings songs to God as a collective, something that is quite unifying, and glorifying to God. My church does need to make some changes in terms of lateral focus and all that, but God gives us some room for choice. As long as our traditions are not idols/legalism then they are not inherently bad and can be judged on an individual basis.
Also, just a note that you have hour long uninterrupted lectures but say that "sermons" shouldn't be longer than 20minutes because our attention spans are too short. If people want to hear a long message of biblical lessons/exegesis, they will listen.
yes I was agreeing with what you say -dare I say we are defensive of what we already have. But we can always improve. I think of all the wisdom in our church, people who have been believers longer than I have been alive - and yet we never hear from them as a group. I see the small home-connect groups as more places that the biblical model can flourish. Even they can sometimes be mini-churches, with one person leading and others being passive. We can always grow and learn and be more like Christ. I think the big take away for me was do all of this to edify one another and love one another.
this series of videos you are right were an hour long and we can listen to them, because they are relevant and not guilt-tripping or making us feel inadequate. Probably we lose interest when we feel we are getting 'told' once again we are not good enough, or we are set unrealistic examples
The reason his talk is an hour long is because he has 7 hours worth of material to present, and it is interesting enough to hold attention. It is a lecture, not a sermon.
I often worship with a group who share the preaching duties among several of the men in the congregation. I don’t know if it’s tradition or expressed instruction, but they always preach 45 minutes to an hour, including when they only have 15 minutes worth of material. It can be excruciating! 😂
Ive been researching the same thing.
I have not ever really been a part of a ‘church’ since my conversion 30 years ago. I tried. Sometimes I’ve even lasted a couple of months ‘attending’ one, but it’s always felt dry, cold, and most of the ‘sermons’ boring or like a bad comedy show. The whole thing is artificial and quite frankly is a business. Even the pastors are called ‘executive pastors’ and loving and discipling others, is called ‘mentoring’. They use the business worlds language. They don’t even hide it. Jesus showed me I didn’t belong in these pseudo businesses a long time ago. It has been incredibly lonely, but I have grown closer to Jesus as a result. I just wish there was actually the option of a home fellowship. They don’t seem to be easy to find and I’m not sure all that many exist where I live.
So..start one🙂
Google “House church connect” online. They have a link for house churches. Hope this helps you get connected.
I'm not one for long sermons either, yet I have noticed many of your videos are over an hour long ☺️
😁
Yes, I can listen for a long when being taught right😊
For me listening at home is one thing. I can stop and start. It's different than sitting at a church for an hour plus.
Lol, Paul had no problem speaking all night....... then Euticus fell outvthecwindow😂😂
@@royfredericks2231 it is true you said however, was he just visiting and spending as much time as he could because he was moving onto another place? (I’m sorry I didn’t look up that specific scripture right now).
I suppose an interactive approach involving the audience in small group teaching of the scriptures. Teaching from Genesis to Revelation a verse by verse ,chapter by chapter ,book by book. 🎉
I had a pastor that would preach 2 to 3 hours it was exhausting.
I wonder what the audience took away from that. Any lecture longer than about 40 minutes is a waste of very one's time. Even 'taking notes' doesn't help because it splits one's attention.
The way adults learn is like at Uni: readings, then discuss in a tutorial, then submit an essay. The 'discuss' is the most important part of the process.
I could sit for 10 hours and listen to the word of God. I absolutely love it. Longer the better.
@@jacobpursley1800 that has nothing to do with loving the word of God. Especially after you have been at work all day and it's a Wednesday night and your kids have school the next day.
lets just bring the gosple to unbelievers and pray for them ! dont worry abour all this stuff cos God can use it all for this for his glory ....going to church building i have been able to meet people and pray for them ., since i dont work and am a stay home mom . im planning on having a gathering in my home once i get my garage cleaned out for bible studys food and coffee and to edify one another :D
Because they did all their preaching and evangelizing to their neighbours and families during their day.
it is written that Jacob, deceiver/heel catcher, had his name changed to Israel, he wrestles with God. Yah's people are still called Israel-- so still wrestling with God... or at least wrestling with His word. in my understanding, first century synagogues did not have the Greek amphitheatre/ stage - audience set up, but more like a theater in the round, with the scroll(s) of the Tanakh set out on a table in the center of the room. this table would be on a slightly elevated space called the Bema. someone would read a portion of the Text and they would discuss it. the architecture literally reinforced the idea that discussing the Text in community was the point. since early believers didn't have access to the hebrew text outside of synagogues or having memorized it themselves, it seems to me that they would have done similarly in their homes... as well as likely praying for one another and encouraging one another with hymns and spiritual songs. reminding each other of the lord's goodness.
ymmv
While evangelism is a spiritual gift, we are also told in 1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:. If you are given the opportunity by God to give the gospel or any answer to any question people might have, it is our responsibility to have studied the word to be able to answer any question they ask, but in particular how to be saved. People seem to think it is the church's (meaning the pastor's) responsibility to evangelize unbelievers. No, it is his responsibility to grow the believers to be able to evangelize.
There are some fellowships/churches that practice 1 Cor 14. I won't fellowship in one that doesn't.
I have offended more than one "preacher or pastor" by stating this. All "Born Again" can claim this: But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
I'm sorry to say and remind those men that closed churches during Covid that the Church belongs to Jesus Christ and no other. Those that closed churches and or limited the fellowship of the saints are disqualified from any leadership in the church. We haven't forgotten.
Tom, why do you not have gatherings in your house?
I agree this is the way the Lord intended His people to grow in the faith.
Good question. Over the years, there have been times when I did have gatherings in my house. But most of my closest Christian friends have been members of a local church, and I have no interest in "stealing sheep" from congregations in my area. I also don't see any NT mandate that forbids Christians from meeting in non-house facilities. Part of the power of the Christian faith is that it can thrive in any culture and in any building.
Do you mind telling me ...What state are you from, and To what denomination are you most accustomed?
@@tomwadsworth Indiana
Raised Roman Catholic
Received Christ as Saviour in Full Gospel Baptist church was in a prosperity church which almost destroyed my faith in church
but not in Christ
Now I go to different background congregations
Known for sometime that what you taught in these lessons is the way the body of Christ is supposed to be as there is a great house church movement among the persecuted suffering church.
@@tomwadsworth I agree, the NT is indifferent to a lot of options in how we organize church, but what it sticks on is what Tom has been saying. What it is poor at is evangelism, on what Greg Koukl calls 'gardening' and generally being an ambassador for Christ. As 'ambassadors' we can bring a Christian world view to bear on discussions, not in 'quote the Bible' mode, but in terms of kind but critical questioning of presuppositions and positions.
Also the general knowledge of most Christians of the overall story line of the Bible, its theology, the history of the Bible and of the church is way bad.
Absolutely loving hearing your thoughts on all this, thanks so much for putting these videos on here! I just heard you say, "when I got out of the ministry." Did you actually mean that as stated, or is it another example of how we can so easily get caught out by a historical way of speaking that evolved from a corrupted way of thinking about Christ's church? Blessings!
Good point. Truth is, I've never "gotten out of the ministry," but there was a point when I stopped doing "full-time paid ministry." In retrospect, leaving the 'full-time paid ministry" was a key move that freed me from any obligations to teach what my employer wanted me to teach. For almost 40 years now, I've been free to study and interpret the biblical documents without institutional interference or restrictions.
@@tomwadsworth Thanks so much for your answer, brother! At least you know I'm listening carefully! 😊 I asked because I'm still thinking through the historical argument that there are two kinds of priest in the New Testament - the 'common' priest and the 'ministerial' one. And subsequently, whether the idea that the presbyter is in the 'ministry' in a way that the lay person isn't, is accepted by Evangelicals or just accidentally adopted in inherited terminology. Thanks again so much!
Do you mind telling me ...What state are you from, and To what denomination are you most accustomed?
What about Peter's sermon in Acts?
Watch the video.
Peter's "sermon" is not called a "sermon" anywhere in Acts 2.
The word "sermon" is a modern convention; the word is never found in the Bible ... not even in the "Sermon on the Mount." Peter was not giving a speech to a Christian assembly; he was proclaiming the gospel to a large body of unconverted Jews.
Watch the video.
Gene Edwards books cover this well and there are pockets of people around the world that meet together as the body of Christ.
Here at lesson #4, so many points you’ve brought up until this point ring true with me. Maybe in time you will address the fact that the model you’re talking about is difficult to find?
Start a home church
In ur home!
When it’s too big, get another family to host some of the others
Keep the gathering small, remember ppl will bring kids & babies and older ppl w/WCs maybe
Start Bible studies n “grow from” there. Just don’t aim for a bldg and budget
Aim for honoring Him and edifying each other
For most Christians, when tradition conflicts with the Bible, tradition wins. If you are a Christian who want to follow and practice what's in Scripture, traditional Christians will mostly ignore you. For all the talk of sola scriptura amongst Protestants, when push comes to shove, the Scripture is nowhere to be found. It is so refreshing to see Tom Wadsworth explain scripturally why American traditional churchianity is to a great extent bunkum, and quite boring.
Hey… I subscribed to your channel for a long time now and here-- i agreed with this comment of yours too… 🤔🤔🤔🤔
@@MrMillo-jw7mm 👍👍
Do you mind telling me ...What state are you from, and To what denomination are you most accustomed?
@@tomwadsworth I'm from South Carolina. Grew up Presbyterian. Now I'm attending a Reformed Baptist church, but not a member, because I can't sign their doctrinal statement, which contradicts my beliefs in New Covenant Theology. Most of my Christian life has been in house churches in South Carolina and China (where I lived for about 23 years).
If you record this another time, please make it clear regarding the Temple, Temple Courts, and Temple Complex. "Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah." Acts 5:42 NIV. Many Christians envision that Paul went into the Temple to preach, but he was in the outer courts debating from Scripture that Jesus is the Christ.
YOU SHOULD PREACH AS YOU THINK WHICH IS THE TRUTH!
There's a reason Jesus say's call no one your Father, Teacher or Leader. The point is that we are all equal brothers and sisters in Christ- regardless of differing gifts or abilities. Is it not therefore sin to call someone Pastor Anything or for such an individual leader to allow the sheep to address him with one of these titles? How about the stationary or signs out front that clearly states who runs the show at that particular church?
This is just one way in which these leaders refuse to be accountable and disobey an obvious biblical command.
If any of these "leaders" really wanted to obey God they would abandon these positions and the advantages over the saints just as you did.
1x(8/25/24)………….0………..18:00…..34:00….,done thank you excellent
Did you notice that evangelists preachers are outward with the gospel but
teachers are inward for discipleship
I have a book on the early church and they did exhort and sing.
Yes, indeed they did. I repeatedly mention exhortation and singing in the videos.
The book of Hebrews was a preached “sermon”. And I have read 100s of sermons preached from the 2nd century. Not sure why this is an issue.
Agabus was a great NT prophet. Predicted Paul’s imprisonment
Question: Since women are not allowed to speak in a church setting, can they participate in the edification and one-anothering?
I've been waiting for someone to ask this question! In my view, Paul's statements about 'women speaking' were culturally driven, just like his statements about the veil (1 Cor 11:2-16).
In my gatherings, I encourage women to speak. Their input is too valuable to be squelched.
But I recognize that some church cultures--even today--may have a problem with women speaking. As Paul said, we must not force someone to do something that their conscience won't allow (Rom 14).
@@tomwadsworth What is driving 1 Timothy 2:12? In verse 13 it is creation, in verse 14 it is sin. No so called "culture" driving anything here except perhaps contemporary culture driving your own avoidance of the culturally uncomfortable conclusion.
Honestly, to the point about the sermon being the primary edifying feature of a service...not true in many services. I know a church where the worship pastor was fired. He went down the street and 90% of the congregation followed. Many attendees tolerate sermons just to get to the praise and music segment with all the attendant edification that goes with.
I definitely don’t believe all the teaching in the N.T church was only allowed by overseers, elders , or prophets. All were allowed to share
Just need to find a Bible believing Church family. Worship on Sundays word ,music etc. Small group Bible studies during week. On Churches and worship services how do you explain eople being saved and experiencing The Holy Spirit , as my experience. Not sure Wadsworth's trying to go with this.
Finally, a sensible comment amidst all these. If possible, it should be both/and, not either/or. Unless believers are in a region where Christianity is extremely persecuted, I believe there is great benefit to a large gathering of believers where the word of God is expounded and Christ crucified is preached. Balance is the key, and is only found in Scripture rightly divided.
Mr. Wadsworth has a few valid points but used too broad of a brush. When he pertains to 'churches' like Hillsong, Elevation, or Lakewood, then he's spot on. But he also misrepresented organized churches that teach sound doctrine and do both big and small (house) gatherings. Hopefully, Mr. Wadsworth be more specific.
Seems to me that the extreme advocates of the house church movement want nothing to do with submission to appointed authorities while also getting a few moments in the spotlight - another version of me-first, man-centered approach. Viewers, discern...
I do believe everyone that leads needs to have an accountability partner.
Maybe all of the Western culture could take a note of how the Jewish people do Shabbat on Fridays Sunset to Saturday Sunset.
I think there was preaching and worshipping going on...per the content of The Epistles.
Thats not the location of the original temple
He didn't incarnate the message because though he invited questions and comments, it was obvious he treated them as interruptions, and got right back to his lecture. Probably wanted to cover his material in a time frame.
It seems to me you're creating a false dichotomy between the horizontal and vertical dimensions of church meetings, emphasizing the former at the expense of the latter.
The New Testament frequently depicts vertically-oriented activities (especially prayer, prophecy, praises and hymns sung to God) as intended or actually taking place in congregational settings. See, for example, Matthew 21:13; Mark 11:17; Luke 2:36-37; 19:46; Acts 1:24; 2:1, 42; 14:23; 16:13, 16; 1 Corinthians 14:2-5, 15-16, 22-32; Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 1:3, etc.
Preaching and teaching - both of which I see as combining the horizontal and vertical - are also depicted as taking place in congregational settings, as in Matthew 4:24; 9:35; Acts 20:20; Romans 1:25; 16:25; 1 Corinthians 4:17; 14:6, etc. Indeed, the whole book of Hebrews is a homily.
@tomwadsworth another Biiiiiiiig issue is that the Pastor becomes the spiritual authority, even above God and Bible. God, Bible, understanding is what he says it is. A very common response from Christians is "but my pastor says..." instead of "but the Bible says...", it's almost pastor/church worship. and thus we have tens of denominations and doctrines that every member is fully committed to. If you tell them that their pastor teaching is not biblical they go and consult with that pastor to confirm instead of checking scriptures. It's very cult-like.
Do you mind telling me ...What state are you from, and To what denomination are you most accustomed?
@@tomwadsworth grew up in cali but now in ga. grew up as Pentecostal, but could tell something was off, and went to non-denominational. in ga attended mostly Baptist, not many non-denomiational around, but one claimed to be independent even tho it had Baptist in it's name. they thought the same gospel as Pentecostals, which is Jesus can get u in the heaven if u can keep yourself out of hell by good works, which none of us could ever reconcile. of course, not tithing was a sure way to end up in hell. although they were very clever how they presented that one.
Don’t need seminary to be pastoral
So you'd prefer the ignorant, opinionated, self-made man who's a perfect example of human folly?
Pleasant good day to all didn't they pray and fasted durimg these gathering and collected offerings and minister those who had the knowledge to do so to edify the new converts. What is prayer if it's not worship. When they fasted and prayed the Paul will be loosed out of prison what exactly do you call that? The early Church (first century) worshipped in Jewish synagogues on Saturday, and then met in their own private homes on Sunday morning. Near the end of the first century, the Christians were expelled from the synagogues, so most of them met in private homes for the next 150 years or so. The earliest known Christian building set aside exclusively for worship was built around 240 AD.
You should ask the question why have christians abandoned the Sabbath commandment when the early church obviously kept the sabbath. He that breaketh the lease of the commandments are guilty of all. We are to be most of all walking in obedience to God. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
So what did they have . Remember they did Not have the New Testament . They had the Torah , they read the Torah .
A person does not become a Christian by what they do by by The Lord as well as by being in union with Him.
Not entirely accurate - here are a couple examples. At Antioch (Acts 13:14-16) Paul was in the synagogue again speaking to the people. This makes 84 times in the book of Acts Paul was recorded as being in the synagogue on the Sabbath day teaching and speaking to people after the death of Jesus. So Paul was in the Synagogue (AKA church) teaching. Now, of course there were "house churches" but to say there was no meeting is a bit misleading. In fact when Paul came to Corinth, Luke records that Paul “reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks” (Acts 18:4). Again, we see that Paul's habit was to observe the Sabbath by going to the synagogue “every” Sabbath.
Serious question: was Paul observing the Sabbath according to the Law at this point, or was he going to the temple to evangelize to those who were gathered there, still waiting for Messiah?
@@alittlepeace9562 Nothing to do with Sabbath, Rather The Synagogues were in Roman/Greek city's .Sabbath jus shows they were on a regular Jewish worship day. The equivalent of our church today. A study of what the Synagogue service was like will show a definite similarity. This was the basic structure, although there were variations as there are today.
Shema: The central prayer of Judaism, affirming the oneness of God.
Tefillah: Additional prayers and supplications.
Torah Reading: A portion of the Torah would be read aloud and explained by a scholar.
Haftarah: A reading from the Prophets, often related to the Torah portion.
Sermon: A commentary on the readings, often delivered by a rabbi or other respected figure.
Benedictions: Concluding prayers and blessings.
The idea of no service usually is related to Justin Martyr but that would be out of range for this.
Youre full of it .
Yes they did hold service with sermons , or HOW could the church tell the congregation what to do ? That’s is what was happening in the UK .
That’s why there is no religion recognized in our government , but we are allowed to use religion as a GUIDE .
A very good lecture but it misses the bigger picture. The #1 purpose of 1st century meetings was to celebrate the blessed sacrament as a sacrifice; it was not for sermons be they either monologues or dialogues. The analogy to 1st century Judaism (ie the lives of Jesus and his disciples) is this: Jesus and his disciples when to the Temple for sacrifice, and they went to the Synagogue (a different place for a different purpose) for scripture discussion. As Jesus predicted, the Temple was destroyed (in 70AD), to be replaced by his own body risen in 3 days (John 2: 19-22). When the first Christians met as Christians it was not to study Scripture (the New Covenant/Testament was not written, but was according to Jesus his own body and blood - see Luke 22:20), and Christian Jews would still attend synagogue for prayer/sermons until the later in the first century when Pharasite Jews expelled them from the synagogues. To this day, both in the East (orthodox, oriental and eastern Christians) and the West (the various catholic faiths) the homily (ie sermon) may be omitted because listening to someone else is not the point of church attendance - the point is to come into communion with Christ and join your imperfect sacrifice to his perfect sacrifice and receive his grace. For hundreds of years, Christians never heard a sermon in church and never needed to, because what mattered was faith in the sacrifice of Christ and to participate in that. The activities of scripture study, alms giving, hospice and charity (noting it was Christians that invented universities, hospitals and charities) were important activities but none of it happened by "going to church". "Going to church" was more important - and this remains the case for orthodox, oriental and catholic faiths - because what "going to church" entails is firstly a mystical participation in Christ, and only after that come the satisfaction of intellectual and other worldly needs.
Obey the Gospel- taught by the Apostles
Hear- Romans 10:17, Matthew 11:15, Acts 18:8, Acts 28:28
Believe- John 5:24, Mark 16:16, Acts 16:31-33, Acts 18:8.
Confess- 1 John 4:15, Romans 10:9-10, Acts 8:35-38.
Repent- Luke 13:3, Acts 2:38, Acts 3:19, Matthew 9:13 Acts 17:30-31.
Baptized for remission of sins- John 3:5, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Acts 8:5-13, Acts 8:35-38, Acts 9:17-19, Acts 10:47-48, Acts 16:13-15, Acts 16:31-33, Acts 18:8, Acts 19:1-5, Acts 22:16, Matthew 28:19-20.
Then God adds you into the Church- Acts 2:41, Acts 2:47, Colossians 2:12, Galatians 3:27, Romans 6:3-11.
Study the Scriptures daily- 2 Timothy 2:15.
Endure to the end- Matthew 24:13.
It's all about money today... Every Sunday is the money day... Tities and offerings 😊
Unless believers are in a region where Christianity is extremely persecuted, I believe there is great benefit to a large gathering of believers where the word of God is expounded and Christ crucified is preached. Balance is the key, and is only found in Scripture rightly divided. Mr. Wadsworth has a few valid points but used too broad of a brush. If he pertains to 'churches' like Hillsong, Elevation, or Lakewood, then he's spot on. But he also misrepresented organized churches that teach sound doctrine and do both big and small (house) gatherings. Hopefully, Mr. Wadsworth would be more specific.
Seems to me that the extreme advocates of the house church movement want nothing to do with submission to appointed authorities while also getting a few moments in the spotlight - another version of me-first, man-centered approach. Viewers, discern...
If the "spotlight" is the opportunity to share with and teach others then yes many people do want that. The scriptures support the fact that we should be teaching others at some point. The structure of most "churches" doesn't allow it.
@@doreenscott4223 thats why our church gathers as a smaller group as well...there, we discuss, get encouraged, given opportunities to lead, teach, expose Scripture, and get edified as Mr Wadsworth had said. Apologies if that is not happening to your local body if youre ever in one. Thats why, balance is needed.
Is this a reformed thinker?
The unhelpful interjections of the listeners here may help to explain why uninterrupted sermons have become the norm in church assemblies. The teacher needs to teach. Maybe questions afterwards may help on occassion.
The interjectors clearly were not able to grasp what Tom was even getting at! How frustrating. But also for such a formal presentation, questions at the end, please.
I think the Catholic or orthodox church goes back to apostolic times and how they celebrated their fellowships. I know a lot has changed since the 3rd century but the Catholic church still has remnants of how early worship was done.
I tnink there is enough interpretation out there, so sermons have become shorter and at least in the Catholic church the Eucharist or communion is the central theme of the celebration.
Catholic mass is the farthest thing I can imagine from the NT gatherings I’m reading in Acts.
@@katylee1914 well for one we do not have the jumping and dancing, no disco lights or swaying, no eccessive drums and guitaring, no payment for sermons, no emphasis on eloquence of speech, no emphasis on feeling good.
In contrast there is focus on Eucharist which is fellowship communion, hymns based on psalms, simple piano and acoustic guitar, readings from OT, Letters and Gospels, and a small sermon. All centered around adoration of Jesus Christ.
this is what baptist churches need to hear haha
Did Jesus preach sermons? What was the significance of the temple in the old and new testament and specifically where God's presence was during the old covenant and today? What did Jesus say about the temple and the place of worship? Although you have a Phd, it is difficult to get the point you're trying to make - it sounds like you're embrasing legalism - give more historical facts about if all people were educated and about deacons and elders etc. Then most important how worship changed from the old to the new covenant
Did Jesus preach "sermons"? Well, the gospels certainly confirm that he "preached," but the word 'sermon' is a much-later convention, and it's odd to place it in the context of Jesus' ministry. See Worship #4 Why They Didn't Preach Sermons in the Early Church th-cam.com/video/hV8H2fx2Y6U/w-d-xo.html
What was the significance of the temple? See Worship #3 The Temple That Changed Everything th-cam.com/video/jD00uwVXCQY/w-d-xo.html
In my view, there's no comparing what Jews did in the temple to what Christians did in their gatherings. While they both had some singing and prayer, they had stark differences in (1) Purpose, (2) Frequency, (3) Activities, (4) Building Requirements, (5) Leadership, (6) Cleric Accoutrements, et al.
In time, though, Christians reverted back to adopting temple concepts for their meetings. See Worship #6 How the Later Church Developed Worship Services th-cam.com/video/4CfNZbjK6Sg/w-d-xo.html.
@@tomwadsworth the motivation for my questions is this - what is the significance of your studies? what lesson do you want to teach us? is it just for historical knowledge? what is it that we must apply? and then, most important, the question of legalism - does this promote legalism and if not what in your findings will enhance or strengthen my relationship with Jesus?
@@francoisgoosen9529 I never thought that my teaching promotes legalism. I personally loathe legalism.
Ultimately, the message at the end of the road of my studies is this: Christians need to be constantly improving ... getting better ... becoming wiser, more compassionate, more understanding, gentler, kinder, more patient, more loving, etc. I fear that our modern approach to assemblies is not helping people mature in Christ. But I'm persuaded that the first century approach to assemblies is indeed designed to "edify" and build up Jesus' disciples. If you haven't already, see Worship #7 What Do We Do Now? th-cam.com/video/CGPSQVoZrMg/w-d-xo.html
Let two or three prophets speak and let the others judge.........I believe prophesy here is simply speaking forth the truth in some aspect - a foretelling of a future event would not need to be judged as such .....oh your speaking of this now as I write it...crazy
Why did you just spend an hour preaching?
Why did they have football fields in the temple? Who uses football fields as a measurement? Who the heck watches American football and who would know such trivial information as how big an area it covers? Haven't you heard of metres, hectares or even for USA citizens still in the dark ages, acres?