Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
When I was a pastor, 50% of our gatherings were spent caring for each other, discussing internal benevolence etc..ay any time 1/5 were in a crisis so 4/5 were helping that group...it was not a burden..it was wonderful
@ChristianRevivalOrg I am assuming that you are writing this comment although you are most probably deceased, being that you refer to yourself as a " former" pastor. Yet I suppose that it could be possible that the apostles could have retired!
@@Brotheral-pb1oj I filled in as a youth pastor, because there were no other people that could. The church then hired someone andnthey took over. I am ready in season and out of season, but God doesnt always keep someone in the same role. God bless.
The interesting thing is how after I was born again, there were a number of occasions when I was “worshipping” as we do in the modern west by standing and singing, but I found my legs unable to support me and I would end up kneeling. It wasn’t quite prostration, but it seems to be a common phenomenon when someone is overcome by the Holy Spirit 🕊️
"GOD that made the world and ALL things therein, Seeing that ‘HE IS’ LORD of heaven and earth, Dwelleth 'N-O-T' in temples Made with Hands; Neither is 'Worshipped' with men's Hands, As though HE 'Needed' Anything, Seeing HE Giveth to all Life, and Breath, and All Things." (Acts 17:24-25)
thank you from the bottom of my heart. Listened to you for the first time two days ago and have found this so helpful. I received Christ as my Savior almost 41 years ago and have been reading His Word faithfully through the decades and have seen things that have made me wonder, "What is this really all about?" I've listened to part 1 twice and my wife and I are halfway through part 2 and already I'm understanding better why we meet together and how confused I've been about that English word Worship that, as can be seen from the comments, has many facets to it. And what we want to know is what those Greek words actually meant and consequently we will benefit. Your teaching helps me understand better what went wrong with our initial effort at home churching. We were making more like a protestant church service than "One Anothering" Thank you for sharing your many years of labor for us to benefit so easily, Praise the Lord!
Your comment resonates with me. I especially love that phrase "One Anothering". A friend shared part 1 with me this morning and I am so blessed by it- went through it twice. I intend to listen to the whole 7 installments. It is amazing how when we are committed to knowing the Truth of our faith, God orders our steps to solid resources like this. All glory to God
Good information. I only recently found your channel, and having watched parts 1 and 2, I am looking forward to watching the rest, and find out what the early Church did, and what we should do today as Christians.
The image at 12:15 is Israel's King Jehu prostrating himself before Assyrian King Shalmaneser III. It appears on a black obelisk at the British Museum.
But the essential question is: Why is the current culture of praise a bad thing? Because it replaces the comprehensive teaching of the Bible. Most of Christendom has been led astray by 1700+ years of replacement theology, which is why comprehensive teaching and understanding of the Bible is minimal, and it cannot even be done unless we first get out of the ravages of replacement theology. "Good can be the worst enemy of the best," said a famous writer (O.S.)
@40:36 As a saint living in the last days awaiting the coming of the LORD prostration has been a part of my life. It is with great expectancy that I wait to bow down in the presence of my Creator and ELOHIM face to the ground and inhale His presence.
I recall struggling with the Parable of the Good Samaritan because the text simply does not refer to the beaten man as the Samaritan’s neighbor: Rather, Jesus was answering the Lawyer by telling a parable and asking the Lawyer “Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour >>>unto him that fell among the thieves
My take is: Society grow and people evolve. They would never do things the exact way it was done centuries prior. It is impossible. Our goal is not to trying to go back to the same circumstantial ways of the first church or any period for that matter but try to learn from both the positives and negatives. The early church's gathering in homes,caves,dens etc was not a standard that they sort on purpose but only a consequence. They were poor people who left the security and comfort of the temple worship system- where else could they have gone? What we need to see and take particular note of is how not withstanding the major drawbacks to their several disadvantages they, upon finding such joy and fulfillment in Christ were able to take these negatives and achieve great obedience to God and service to each other. Now today we are far more privileged and have the benefit of large buildings dedicated to the service of the saints through Christ. We need not try now merely abandon these and seek to go back to homes or such like. What we need do is devote our hearts,lives and all such provisions and humbly ask God to so touch/change us that we too in our day like saints of old may too find great fulfillment and obedience with our present lot. To each his own let every generation serve God in the order in which God had called them not covet those things that belong to another people and time. Only let Jesus change our hearts. Salvation is of the Lord not by man's doing.
Let us agree to disagree peacefully. I agree that we cannot go back fully, but I do agree about the need to return to a biblical base foundation. For most of the churches today lacks that. Smaller groups makes for a better foundation. You won't get lost. Accountability is place better. The praise teams have gotten too secular in a lot of churches. He's teaching us to step back and take a sincere look at where we come from and how far we have departed.
@@Wanda-i9y We need to go back to caring FOR EACH OTHER. Not a BUILDING, PASTOR OR CEREMONY - that is of the Pharisees... that's what JESUS rebuked. FALSE CEREMONY. GOD bless you and all here.
First, to compare the freedom we have in America to the totalitarian Roman Empire ruling over Israel is poor. We never had the persecution like many during the early church. Second, God never asked His children to continue to fully adapt to modern culture. Those in the 1600s understood prostration as worship, regardless of whether it was to an idol or the Most High. Sadly, man continues to get the Word to adapt to our ways. God hasn't changed; man does. We get bored of the old, tried and true, so we create new methods to suit our nature. We changed the definition of worship to God.
I remember a while ago reading something in the book of Daniel and saw that Nebuchadnezzar (I'm sure I've spelt his name wrong 😂) had "fallen down to worship Daniel", but Daniel didn't correct him. This thoroughly confused me, so I went to the interlinear and saw that the word can also mean prostrate, and just assumed that that was the more appropriate meaning to attribute to it. But never went back into the topic, as I've continued to read the word, that same question of people "worshipping" has come to mind in terms of what it really means. So thank you for this study!!
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
True worshippers worship God in Spirit and in Truth. This simply means that everything True believers do is for God's glory. Worship has nothing to do with where we go to assemble ourselves. Worship is every breath we take and every step we make until we leave this world.
I was just thinking out loud! I promise you that I in no form or fashion meant to critique your presentation. I totally agree with your message. I thank God that you have the discernment and gall to present this much needed message in the midst of this current so-called christian movement here in America. Actually it was the Truths of your teachings that led me to comment on this subject, although I may have been a bit zealous. It is rare for me to hear any teachings that are not embedded in the current established Christian movement. I wish you Godspeed in your ministry.
@@tomwadsworthit seems obvious, by your remark, that you might be offended and a smidge snarky. Idk, just an observation. If I'm wrong then accept my sincere apology. I noticed you didn't comment back after this person explained the comment. Just bad manners.
@@tomwadsworthyou’ve confirmed what I believed in Spirit, people love to “ go to the Greek” but the same gospel was preached to the Israelites, but in different words, I’ve never heard anyone confirm this, love to know your thoughts on the “ contradiction “ that is not a contradiction, I was ejected from reformed Presbyterian church for pointing this out with some other points, Gave himself a ransom for all, can only mean a ransom for all, the reformed Presbyterians refuse to acknowledge this and use the verse “ ransom for many “for their false doctrines, but they clearly have no understanding who the “ saviours “ are when Edom ( esau ) is judged when kingdom is the Lords in Obadiah 1:17 and 1:24, they simply don’t understand what one in Christ means, as Christ is also one with his father and made the way for all men to be saved, ( propitiation for sins of the whole world)one there even told me God who has no beginning or no end died on the cross!!! Sacrificing your life for your enemy’s as Jesus did and loving them, not judging them and doing his commandments with a broken heart and contrite spirit seems very close to what you have said, this would mean bowing down to him and trying with heart mind and soul to seek him,and do his ways, but of course only God can give this great gift. Better still, kiss the Son, whiles you are alive, study like a workman, meditate day and night in his word, in the hope he gives you the “ earnest “ of the word, the “ sincere milk”. Psalms 2:12 “Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.” Hebrews 4:2 “For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.” Old Testament: same meaning as New Testament Joshua 1:8 “This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.” 2 Timothy 2:15 “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” 1 Timothy 2:6 “Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.” Mark 10:45 “For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.” 1 John 2:2 “And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” Not many “ righteous are saved from second death? 1 Peter 4:18 “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?” But God is not going to lose one “ sheep “from his pasture/field/ forest, psalm 100 says lands, not Israel…… But best to suffer for right doing than wrong doing, if so be …… 1 Peter 4:18 context KJV standard…… If so be one is blessed with the spirit Of God, Romans 8:9 “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” Two of the Reformed Presbyterians even threatened me with violence, and their preacher said it was a myth that we need to be as a little child, and as humble , Matthew 18:3 “And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 18:4 “Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.” If I’ve confused, maybe this verse is true?? 1 Corinthians 1:27 “But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;” One more question, whom was the disciple Jesus loved? Impossible it was John, Jesus did not have a brother called John. John 19:26 “When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!” Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
Amazing. We should read Genesis 4:26. The last verse of the chapter. This is the beginning in human history of worship. The Greek word H7121 Kaw-raw' translated worship was of deep meaning. Apparently there are many other words translated as worship! Thanks a lot Tom.
My question, for clarity, is about prostration or bowing beficons. I find much beauty and honor in the Orthodox Church, but I question bowing or prostration before anyone but Christ.
It's wonderful to find this. I went through this study in 1979/80 time frame primarily using Vines as a resource. I am an engineer not a theologian. I was shocked at what I didn't find. Finally, I searched for God's definition of worship and found it in James 1:27 and Romans 12:1. Also, you mentioned "Holladay". I am assuming Carl Holladay. Carl is my wife's first cousin. I used to go to their family reunions with my "one question" for Carl. A very nice guy!
Thanks for the comments! I would tweak your observations to say that "God's definition of threskeia worship is found in James 1:27, and God's definition of Christian latreia worship is found in Romans 12:1." The two verses use two different Greek words that have two distinct and different meanings, and none of them are the same as the modern English term "worship." I don't recall mentioning Holladay, but I've long been a fan of Carl Holladay's work. An excellent NT scholar! I have two questions for you: (1) In what state are you located? and (2) With which church culture/denomination are you most familiar? Is it the Church of Christ?
@@tomwadsworth Tennessee - Oak Ridge area. And yes, CoC is the tradition I grew up in. The congregation I am with now is CoC, but there has been a lot of positive movement toward freedom in Christ - especially compared to the congregations I grew up in.
I got to hear a pastor say the church will worship the way he wants to. Loud music. Standing with hands up. Lots of lights. Repetitive lyrics. Lots of adrenaline and drums. People standing enjoying the show. Why not? They practiced hard. This has got me willing to dig deeper and ponder how we got off track.
The gatherings of the believers has evolve from the writtings of the church fathers and the emergenced of formal church buildings after the persecution of the christians in the early fourth century. And the churches started to perform the what we call now eucharist to the roman catholic and orthodox
“When I saw him, I fell at his feet as if I were dead. But he laid his right hand on me and said, “Don’t be afraid! I am the First and the Last.” Revelation 1:17 NLT
My understanding of "worship" changed when i read in Hebrews 11:21 KJV(Modern versions are trash) that ..."Jacob worshipped leaning upon his staff". That got me asking what is worship then? Your research answers that question.
Yes! It's important to note that Jacob "was dying." When an elderly person prostrates, they need assistance getting down and back up. That's why his staff was needed for assistance. Compare the story of Naaman in 2 Kings 5:18: "'Regarding this matter may the Lord forgive your servant: when my master goes into the house of Rimmon to worship (prostrate) there, and he leans on my hand and I bow down (prostrate) in the house of Rimmon, when I bow down (prostrate) in the house of Rimmon, may the Lord please forgive your servant in this matter.” Naaman's master was evidently elderly, and he needed Naaman's assistance with the physical gesture of proskynesis. Naaman knew that performing proskynesis in an idol's temple was forbidden in Israel, and so he seeks forgiveness for appearing to do it in the temple of Rimmon.
Worship is worth-ship. It is giving worth to one who is entitled to receive or deserves it. It is a mental predisposition, but not only, rather than a bodily exercise when adoration and respect are expressed. This is notwithstanding, the numerous acts of prostration evidenced in the new testament including the book of revelations.
Tom, I think you miss spoke the hebrew word חוה means Eve, the word they translate as worship is שחה. I am ejoying this series, I have been thiking about this subject for awhile, glad other people have seen this as well.
I, too, thought that the root was שחה. Historically, הִֽשְׁתַּחֲוָ֛ה had been seen as emerging from the root of שחה. But this is syntactically difficult since the hithpalel for שחה should not be הִֽשְׁתַּחֲוָ֛ה. With the discovery of a new Ugaritic verb, scholars now commonly see the root as חוה, which has the same meaning as שחה. See H. D. Preuss, “חוה, etc.” Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, eds. G. Johannes Botterweck and Helmer Ringgren (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1980), 4:249; and Edwin Yamauchi, “חוה,” Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, eds. R. Laird Harris, Gleason Archer, and Bruce Waltke (Chicago: Moody Press, 1980), 1:267.
Thanks for asking. I think the verse is wrongly translated when it uses the word 'worship.' Proskuneo--in its 260-some occurrences in the NT and LXX--never means "worship" in the sense that we use the word today. When the word is used in a temple context, as it is here in John 4, it routinely refers to the obligatory ritual act of prostrating oneself before the deity. Jesus is not here trying to refine how prostration was done, but he is calling for spiritual sincerity ("in spirit and truth" vs. 23-24), not just the rote performance of a religious duty. Jesus called for the same spiritual sincerity in his teachings about fasts, prayers, vows, donations to the poor, loving enemies, etc., in the Sermon on the Mount (Matt 5-6). Jesus' ultimate point in John 4:20-24 is that sacred places (temples), whether in Gerizim or Jerusalem ("in this mountain or in Jerusalem" v. 21) are soon to be obsolete. He makes the same point explicitly in Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. It should be noted that the context of John 4 says nothing about Christian assemblies, and none of the NT epistles ever applied John 4:24 to Christian assembly activities. Even in the 2nd-4th centuries, early Christians did not apply the verse to assembly behavior. They applied the verse as I described it above. In November I will be publicly making the case that "Proskuneo Does Not Mean 'Worship'" at the annual Evangelical Theological Society Conference in San Antonio.
If the word worship means posture/bowing one’s physical body just how the Old Testament talks about people bowing the knee to Baal, then wouldn’t worship in spirit and truth mean the same thing? That we spiritually and truthfully bow in submission and reverence to the Lord God by following his commandments and reverencing Him and no other? Isn’t this the first commandment to Love the Lord God with all your heart mind soul and strength. And the second would naturally follow, which is to love our neighbors as we love ourselves, which are found in the 10 Commandments and all throughout Gods statutes and ordinances. I pray the Lord lead us into all truth and understanding 🙏❤
Well i guess you say the sacrifice is both metaphorical and spiritual.' That's good.. and i realize you're doing a word study on worship.. But it's more than that. It's a reality in Christ that we died in Him. We are coming into agreement that with G_d that our flesh was unified with Christ. It's much more than a metaphor brother Tom. Shalom.
@@Brotheral-pb1ojAmen - so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God (NASB)
@@Brotheral-pb1oj amen again❤️ I understand that only through our faith in the Holy Spirit working in us can we please God and bring forth these good fruits. I love how Christ tells that one person “Why call me good, there is one good, God.” (Paraphrased) This showed me that to follow Christ we must always acknowledging God as our source of good, and by His Grace we will bring forth fruits as we put forth the effort. That is what I think most get wrong, that they think they don’t have to do “work.” This is the really challenge ;)
@soundlycreative You are right on the money. When someone mentions the word work, people start stumbling all over the place.Please let me try to explain. I'll start by saying that God has a "format " in place for His redemptive work in the earth! He's not just doing things randomly or helter-skelter.He has an order of operations.OPERATION #1: Jesus appears on the earth preaching the salvation of souls through faith in his atonement for our sins. ( It is an offer that we should not refuse).OPERATION#2: Jesus knows that He will be here for only a short period of time, so He chooses men and trains them in the art of discipleship and tells them that when He leaves that they must carry on the WORKS in which He started. (The works is to be witnesses to the atonement of Christ for the salvation of souls that we should not perish when we leave this world) OPERATION #3 : Jesus is killed buried and resurrected and is about to leave the earth, but before He goes He gives His disciples instructions as to what He expects them to do after His departure. He also bids them them to tarry in Jerusalem until He sends the Holy Spirit (Ghost) to them for to empower them to do the works of apostles, disciples and believers in general. Operation#4: At the day of pentatcost the Holy Spirit does come and empower them to go to work for the Lord. OPERATION #5: Jesus is with the Father at His right hand, and now the apostles are carrying out the ministry. There goal is to lead people to Christ, and they do this through individual ministry, sometimes putting assemblies together or what ever opportunity they have to minister! OPERATION #6. This is where we fit in. From the preaching of the apostles until this very day, Jesus has not come back to lead any of us in Hos ministry. Jesus put His ministry of salvation onto the hands of the apostles , who in turn passed the ministry to the next generation of believers, and so on up to this very day.! My point is that Christ is effectively using born-again believers ( HIS CHURCH to proclaim the gospel up until this very moment. Whoever gets born-again today is subject to the same calling as our predecessors in the faith. We are to be witnesses of Christ! (Christ said if you are ashamed of me before men , I will be ashamed of you before My Father in Heaven). Mark chapter 8 verse 38! Christ said that we are ministers of reconciliation! 2nd Corinthians chapter 5 verse 18. We are to bear fruit! John chapter 15 verse 1 thru 8. And to let our light so shine that men can see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven! I believe that if people could see and understand the format and operations of God, that they would not stumble over the word work. To be honest: Once a person is truly born-again, everything you do AFTERWARDS is works. Because we live for His Glory. We were bought for a price! SERIOUS FOOD FOR SERIOUS THOUGHT!
Yes brother. Many churches miss this. Of course, the baptists and litergical churches do mostly. But unfortunately; it appears that you have not experienced a Pentecostal fellowship. Baptists and liturgical churches script out their worship and have not taught their people how and when to sing the 'new song.' Plenty of time is spent by worshippers prostrating before the King of Kings. The Holy Spirit is not slack on teaching those who welcome Him that we worship the King of the universe. Your points and scholarship are taken and needed. But many are already there. 100% agreed that we missed the edification. There should not be poor with needs unmet in our fellowships. Worship has always meant more, but the higherlings- pastors are usually the problem. Just saying..
I wonder why he didn't stick to the word prostrate in the explanation of Christ's encounter with the Samaritan woman. The word "worship" was used a few times between Christ and the woman.
The issue here is not that there is no need or reason for worship in Christian but what is the purpose and how is this purpose fulfilled. Is it fulfilled by through physical means e.g. dancing, offering, jumping, singing, prostration, Kneeling down. Reading the NT, how die the early church perceive worship, is our gathering for worship or for fellowship. God is everywhere and He can be worship anywhere why gathering then to worship God that could be worship anywhere by anyone?
Thx, many may be deceived, thinking they won't "worship" the beast per the English, but merely willfully submitting to antiGod policies is worshipping the beast.
This right here would be an awesome subject to study. It seems everybody’s waiting for a very obvious antichrist and a very obvious bowing of the knee and a very obvious mark on the forehead and right hand, but it seems that this is not the case.
"God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth." Jn 4:24 - This verse seems to be indicating that there is a spiritual dimension to proskyneo that Jesus is introducing. Tom, what are your thoughts on Jn 4:24?
I agree. I’ve never thought of this verse as referring to a church service or gathering, but always mixing our spirit, the Holy Spirit & the truth of who God is to honor Him.
Great explanation on worship. I know I have been confused about the meaning. In the past, I have had Catholics tell me it is okay to worship Mary because they do not worship her as a god. So I thought that was interesting. But I believe that some do actually fall on their face and nose to Mary also. So I don't know how they can explain that. But I have also read the Catholic bible, Douay Rheims. In that, it uses the word 'god' to mean anything from a historical biblical character, to an engraved image or idol, and also current leadership. And even in our modern Bibles it speaks of "there are many gods" which points to leaders and historical figures too. So by the real meaning of worship, I'd say worship of other gods would also include leaders, pop stars, historical figures, or any gods from the various established religions.
Thanks for the compliment. Just curious ... (1) In what state do you live? (2) With what denomination are you most familiar? (3) What is your highest educational level?
@Peachcreekmedia This videois simply true teachings, prompted by the Holy Spirit. No True minister of God attends any seminary. It is the Holy Spirit that equips called ministers to proclaim the GOOD NEWS of the Gospel. 1st John chapter 2-verse 27. Seminaries are a product of the traditions of men. None of the original apostles ever attended any kind of school to learn anything about proclaiming the Gospel. For what it's worth, I submit to you that there are many DIFFERENT Seminaries that teach many DIFFERENT faiths in our Lord. Before you jump on the bandwagon with these so-called ministers, please read Ephesians chapter 4 verses 1 thru 6. My entire point is that this teaching on this video comes from the Holy Spirit. Seminary teachings comes from whatever man invented the denomination!
@tomwadsworth I apologize for belatedly replying to your questions. I live in SC. I'm not personally familiar with any denomination, yet I have researched many. I have, in fact joined a couple of denominational assemblies years ago, but it was all superficial because I was under the erroneous impression that as a new convert it was my duty to join an organization al representation of what was and still is deemed to be God's Church. I was led by the Holy Spirit to come out of the traditions of men and to be a witness of Christ, as to being rooted and grounded in Christ, and to being complete in Him first and foremost, and not adding on unessesary titles and labels that allow for the leaven of divisions and outright chaos that has engulfed the so-called christian presence in America. As far as my education, I'm a high school grad. Personally I think that your teachings concerning the assembly of believers is impressive to me in several aspects. Not trying to flatter you, but it is rare for me to see or hear any minister teach the Truth in the midst of the status quo. I can appreciate you not being judgemental concerning what I call the established religious movement. I respect your piety, yet as for myself, I find it hard to understand how anyone can be born-again and not already understand the points that you are making based on scripture. I pray that I'm not being judgemental for questioning someone's salvation. I ask that you pray for me to be enlightened in the righteousness of God.🙏❤️🤔
contextually in the Tenach it is usually just suggesting to bow or lower one self, suggesting submission, the obligationis always centered upon the intent of the heart and not the actual physical manifestation.
Okay, Tom, I'm with you. But if we're to be rigorous about consistent translation, should we translate John 4:23-24 using "prostrate" rather than "worship"? And if we do, are we saying that Jesus was simply picking up on the word used by the woman at the well, going with it, and making his point about genuine spirituality, but not suggesting that God wants us to prostrate ourselves -- ever? You seem to have hurried away from this passage without fully stating how it fits with all the other instances of προσκυνεύω.
It is a good point that our Bibles do lose some meaning in translation - as with the example when the Magi worship baby Jesus, in Matthew 2:11. When you know the prostration implied by the Greek description you can see just how these grown men, rich journeyers, are worshipping God who has been born a baby. It's powerful and beautiful. I looked up the Greek and saw that proskynéō includes 'toward' and 'kiss': "(from 4314 /prós, "towards" and kyneo, "to kiss") - properly, to kiss the ground when prostrating before a superior; to worship, ready "to fall down/prostrate oneself to adore on one's knees" (DNTT); to "do obeisance" (BAGD)." When Jesus says in John 4:24 we should worship "in Spirit and in Truth," we could understand this worship then as moving beyond the prostration that occurred at the Temple. Although we may still bow and worship at His feet, we now worship in the Holy Spirit, in an intimacy and in the full Gospel Truth as redeemed people. So I think there is also a profound newness for how worship should be in the New Testament reality.
I think you're on the right track. But remember that the NT does not use any "worship" terms in reference to Christian activity in their assemblies. The modern church culture assumes that its meetings fall under the category of "worship." The first century assemblies, in fact, did not consider their meetings as "worship" nor as "services."
So we know what the Greek words translated as worship, my question is what would be the word worship in Greek? I mean if what Greek word exactly means worship? Or is this word even exist in Ancient Greek or Hebrew?
Great question! The Greek word σέβω might be the closest Greek term to our English term 'worship'. When I studied every time σέβω is found in the Septuagint and in the New Testament, the word mostly connotes the idea of "revering." Jesus uses the word in Matt 15:8 when he quotes Isa 29:13: "‘This people Me with their lips, But their heart is far away from Me. And in vain do they worship (σέβω) Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’” Here, σέβω is used synonymously with the idea of "honoring." Paul uses a form of the word in Acts 17:23 in reference to the Greeks' "objects of worship" : "For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship (σεβάσματα "objects of reverence"), I also found an altar with this inscription, ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ Therefore, what you worship (εὐσεβέω) in ignorance, this I proclaim to you." Remember: the word σέβω is not used in the New Testament to refer to what Christians did in their assemblies. The reason? I think it's because first century Christian assemblies had no sacred items or representations of the deity to revere in their assemblies. Christianity was odd to the surrounding culture; it did not match up with anyone's idea of a "religion" (see Jas 1:26-27). Christianity was a "Way" (Acts 9:2; 18:25-26; 19:9, 23: 24:14, 22), not a "religion" with sacrifices, altars, statues, priests, and temples. In this way, the Jesus movement was vastly different from anything that Jews or pagans understood or practiced.
@@RevelationMinistries114Did you listen to the entire series? God doesn't need anything from you. People do. Caring for one another is the highest act of worship.
What is confusing about this presentation, and the one before it, is that it is not clear how Dr. Wadsworth is defining the English word "worship." Is he saying that when we gather in our assembies that we should not engage in prayer, or sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs? And that we should not be doing these things with a deep sense of reverence and respect for God? And what did Jesus mean when He told the Samaritan woman that we are to worship God in Spirit and in truth?
Defining the English word 'worship' is a meaningless task. After all, none of the NT writers (or Jesus) ever used the English word 'worship'. As I explain in the videos, the key issue is not to define 'worship'. The key issue is to define the Greek words that are translated as "worship." As it turns out, the five Greek words that are translated as "worship" are not synonymous; they all refer to different aspects of behavior done for deity. Video #2 explains this, and it answers your question about the Samaritan woman. In addition, none of these Greek "worship" words are used to describe what Christians did in their meetings. In addition, even though we have massive volumes of Christian writings from the second and third centuries, these later Christians also did not use "worship" words to describe their assemblies. Why is that? Video #6 shows how 4th century Christianity began to use ancient "worship" language in reference to Christian assemblies. In essence, today's widespread idea that "we gather to worship" is a flawed idea that has no basis in NT Christianity.
@@tomwadsworthBut what about the singing of psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs? What about the Lord's Table? What about baptism? And what about what our Lord called the first and greatest commandment, to love the Lord our God with all our soul, heart and might? I should mention that I was a part of a house church a few years ago, and understand that the early church would have functioned quite differently from our modern, institutionalized church. But we did sing hymns in our group, and we would have someone deliver a sermon of sorts, as I was called upon to do from time to time.
None of the Greek words for "worship" are ever used to describe any of those activities (singing, Lord's Supper, baptism, or sermons). They don't qualify as "proskuneo worship," "latreuo worship," "leitourgeo worship," "sebomai worship," or "threskeia worship." Watch Video #2. Having said that, it's clear in the NT that the early church gatherings certainly included singing and the Lord's Supper. The early assemblies certainly included "teaching," but the idea of "preaching sermons" is not. Watch Video #4. The word "sermon" is not found in the Bible ... not even in the "Sermon on the Mount." The term is only found in subheadings that were added by the Bible publisher. I should add that baptism is never depicted as an assembly activity. Here's the bottom line. Our penchant of describing our meetings as "worship" and describing our assembly activities as "acts of worship" is foreign to the NT. We should be asking, "What was the purpose of these gatherings?" Paul couldn't be clearer when he identifies "edification" as the purpose of the assembly and as the purpose of all assembly activities. "Let all things be done for edification." (1 Cor 14:26) If we truly want to pattern today's assemblies after biblical assemblies, we should stop trying to justify what we do. Instead, we should open our Bibles and let it instruct us. Truth is, our assemblies are patterned after centuries of errant thinking, not after the clear teaching of the Bible.
I guess that the main reservation I have about your presentation is the antithesis that you posit between the "horizontal" and the "vertical." I think that, biblically speaking, the horizontal exists precisely because it is grounded in the vertical. All true believers share a mystical union with Christ, and should share a common devotion to Him, which, in turn, should draw us together as one body in Christ. Jesus did not tell the Samaritan woman that worship was abolished. Rather, He said that "true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers." We first begin by presenting "your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship" (ten logiken latreian - Rom. 12:1). "Through Him, then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name" (Heb. 12:15). And this, in turn, means that in our assemblies we are to speak to one another in "psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord; always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father . . ." (Eph. 5:19,20). And believe it or not, the word "sermon" actually does occur in the Bible! In Acts 20:7, describing an assembly gathering in a private home on a Sunday evening, Luke tells us that Paul protracting his "ton logon," which is translated in the Latin Vulgate as "sermonem."
@@robertwheeler1158 (1) I never said that the horizontal wasn’t grounded in the vertical. The point still stands: The lion’s share of NT assembly activities are clearly and indisputably horizontal activities that are directed to “one another.” Modern assemblies, by their own explicit admission, are “worship services” that are vertically directed to God. (2) Concerning John 4, you have missed the essential point: proskuneo, whenever it is used in a temple context in the LXX and the NT, refers to prostration. In the first 300 years of Christianity, proskuneo is never used in reference to what Christians do when they get together. It again strongly appears that you have not listened to the presentation. (3) Concerning Rom 12:1, Paul uses the term latreia, which does not mean “worship” in the modern sense. In the NT, latreuo and latreia never refer to Christian assembly activity. If you listened to the presentation, you would know what latreia means. Please … before you critique the presentation, spend the time to listen to the presentation.
And as to "looking God in the eye," all the OT instances of the appearance of the Angel of the Lord, a theophany--some of which include patriarchs and others saying, "I have seen God and not died"-- the subjects of the appearances look at the Lord. The whole point of the theophany was to be able to see and interact with God in a form enabling a person to encounter God and not die.
So, how do we understand the Psalms in the Old Testament, the doxologies in the New Testament, or Paul's instructions to the church in Ephesians 5? David is celebrated for his deep, worshipful adoration of God, and Jesus is called the King of Judah, or the King of Praise. This perspective on worship seems to overlook the full spiritual experience that the Bible's history and theology present. It reflects a Eurocentric, Westernized view of worship.
@tomwadsworth I watched it. My church, assembly combined with Sunday school seems maybe as close as I can get. Our preacher gives short sermons mostly about application of the Gospel to life, our Sunday school has a lot of back and forth, and our praise music is nothing like a concert. What do you think? I know every church is different, even within the Church of Christ
@@jondeauxman I don't want to be the Judge of anyone's assembly; I simply want to point out Paul's emphasized directives. In 1 Cor 14, Paul focused on whether "all things" were done for edification (v. 26). His directive can be achieved in many different settings. But when the stated focus is on "worshipping God," the edification directive can get lost.
The Priests worshiped as they worked their specific functions. Why I say this, is not the Hebraic word for worship & work have a commonality?? Again just asking! But I appreciate the challenge on what we call worship! Singing praises has its place, adoration too has its place! So I guess praising with adulation could be considered worship 😮🙌🎶
I know this is confusing. But remember: The challenge is NOT to define the English word 'worship'. That endeavor accomplishes nothing. The challenge is (1) to define the Greek words that are translated as 'worship'. And since the NT does not use "worship language" to describe Christian assemblies, the challenge then is (2) to determine why the early Christians met, what did they do, and how did they describe what they were doing.
Your first premise: "The priests worshiped as they worked their specific functions" needs to be challenged. What do you mean by "worship"? How did you determine what you meant by "worship"? Does the Bible actually support your premise? The OT (LXX) and the NT use a very specific word to describe what the Jewish priests did in the temple: leitourgeo/leitourgia. The word is used 150 times in the OT, and it refers to "priestly work." The word has no reference to what the priests were "feeling" as they worked.
If the word worship means posture/bowing one’s physical body just how the Old Testament talks about people bowing the knee to Baal, then wouldn’t worship in spirit and truth mean the same thing? That we spiritually and truthfully bow in submission and reverence to the Lord God by following his commandments and reverencing Him and no other? Isn’t this the first commandment to Love the Lord God with all your heart mind soul and strength. And the second would naturally follow, which is to love our neighbors as we love ourselves, which are found in the 10 Commandments and all throughout Gods statutes and ordinances. I pray the Lord lead us into all truth and understanding 🙏❤
How can he say Christ used the Greek old testament. The scroll of Isaiah that Christ read in the synagogue is most likely to be either Aramaic or Hebrew.
I seriously am concerned that The Master & his disciples used the Septuagint. As they were in the Temple or Synagogue which had Torah scrolls from which they would have read from. Aramaic was the common language amongst the people, Hebrew the Religious language of the Hebrew Temple & its priests; Greek apparently the business lingo. What reference is there that the 70 Rabbi’s who did the translating bought back their own copies to Israel in particular to Jerusalem? Just asking bcos it does not make sense! Thanks
Good questions, nicely asked. When Alexander the Great conquered the countries around the Mediterranean basin, he injected the Greek language wherever he went. The pervasive Greek culture that he spread is called Hellenism, and it engulfed the land of the Jews in the first century. So, the Greek language was quite widespread, even among the Jews. That's why all of the earliest NT manuscripts that we have are in Greek. None are in Hebrew or Aramaic. Try doing a Google search for, "Did Jesus use the Septuagint." In the results, look for a source that you respect, then read what it says. I'm not trying to be combative or argumentative. I'm just trying to help.
The NASB of 1995 says "ministered" in Acts 13:2. The new NASB of 2020 says "serving" in Acts 13:2. www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+13%3A2&version=NASB
Not to be critical but I listened to one of your videos about worship and I had to listened to the whole thing to understand one point and you could have told it in a couple paragraphs. The question once what was worship back then and all you had to say was what it was . I hate listening to a whole thing to find out I could have understood it in like 10 minutes yes the other stuff was informative about what worship was back then but if you would have just explained what it was and THEN explain why you believed that it would have been better I hate people give tiny bits and pieces as. Then keep us wandering right to the very end I don’t have that tension span. In other words get point and then tell why you believe that
@@tomwadsworthi read this man's comment and agreed hurriedly, but then realized I was just being ungrateful and impatient. If you didn't do a long winded and exhaustive investigation, then people would doubt your teaching. The bible says to test everything, but I can't test this much because you're so transparent and thorough.
@@mikem5475 It's true that I expected ardent criticism. That's why I took the time to explain my investigation. Thanks for being patient and open-minded.
I totally understand just how extremely frustrating it is to listen to long-winded explanations that never define or helps anyone to get to the point. Yet, learning patience through it all is very rewarding in itself. After listening to all 7 youtubes on this subject I tried to look for lists or book published for my own personal library that clear up this subject once and for all. That is a great joy to me. Great work and dedication, much respects to you Tom, and to all others that enjoy textural criticism. Peace.
Loved this message until he claimed that Christians never Proskuneo (34:38). Luke 24:51-53 states: 51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. 52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. 53 And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God. The word worship here is Proskuneo. This act of Proskuneo is NOT a greeting, as the speaker claims. Jesus has left the scene. Moreover, it signals some emotional response, for when they finished with their Proskuneo they left with joy and praised God. I have to question this research when the author makes such simple errors. Please be more scholastic and explain what the text says. Give more analysis rather than opinion.
Wouldn't the first century Christians not fully understand the vertical, because they were used to others doing that for them? I believe during the time of both the first and second temple, these functions did happen, as well as during all the time that there has been Jewish Synagogues, which is believed by historians to have existed in BC days or in that era. And, as you talked about, there was the separation of priests and non-priest duties/functions, many of the "lay" people would not have participated in these. And definitely still, in the first century AD time frame, as that is when the pharisaical mentality was happening. Pursuing a vertical, where you are now the priest (the veil to the Holy of Holies was ripped/torn) and our bodies/hearts are the temple, understanding and exhibiting that would have been a new thing. I doubt very seriously they understood this fully that fast. I too am frustrated with the modern organized church context, but I think we are placing the first century Christians on a pedestal they never actually lived on themselves. Jesus had brought a whole new thinking to His plan of Salvation. Well, new to the Jewish community, and of course to the gentiles, He never has been confused about any of it. We are the ones trying to understand it all.
At the end of Acts 2 & 4 Jesus's gathered ekklesia immediately (in the Holy Spirit's Pentecostal power) formed a community which I believe we have yet to approach, let alone surpass?
Worship of YHWH was something that happened at the Temple with blood sacrifice. We see in Acts that the Apostles continued to worship at Temple even after Christ was resurrected. And most of the Bible was written prior to the destruction of the Temple in 70AD. So after the destruction of the Temple, worship and sacrifice had to take new forms in both the synagogues and the Christian churches. Seems natural and logical.
Are you saying that the apostles were sacrificing animals in the temples in the New Testament and the book of acts? If that’s what you are saying then that is incorrect. The apostles went to the synagogues to preach the gospel. Acts 17 (Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and demonstrating that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus whom I preach to you is the Christ.”) There was only one final sacrifice that was Jesus Christ. Hebrews 10 (When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.)
I think you are incorrect. Daily sacrifices were performed at the Temple in Jerusalem, with a lamb sacrificed every morning and every evening. The priests performed these rituals on the behalf of all the worshippers at the Temple. All attendees. And Acts 21:26 shows Paul performing Temple rituals as usual: "The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the Temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them." This verse shows that Paul participated in Jewish purification rituals at the Temple in Jerusalem, even many years after Jesus' crucifixion. It demonstrates that the early apostles, including Paul, continued to engage in some Jewish religious practices and attend the Temple, while also spreading their new faith in Jesus as the Messiah.
If the context of bowing down is done in reverence, lowering yourself. If I see someone bowed down before an idol or a person I would say they are worshiping. That’s the context. It’s not bowing down like to tie your shoelaces or pick something up. Fall on your face cause you tripped. This context is worship. I don’t really see why this word translated to worship is incorrect. Because of the first point context and meaning. I see the point though that the English word worship doesn’t automatically imply bowing down. Which is why I would be more useful to translate it as it is or say “bow down and worship”.
Your observation aligns well with 21st century English-language thinking. But in the first century, if someone is seen bowed down before an idol, they would be said to be "prostrating."
@@tomwadsworth thanks so much for replying. I think I understand. So they would say “you’re not allowed to prostrate yourself before other gods!!” They would have considered it idolatry right?? But if so isn’t Idolatry is the worship of idols? They might not have said “you were worshiping other gods” but because he was prostrating is was worshiping….because that’s what you do in the presence of gods and God. My struggle is the removal of the word worship from this context. But maybe it’s just more useful because of today’s 21st century understanding of the word worship to translate it as simply what it is which is prostrating yourself. Are my conclusions still a little off? I just got introduced to these concepts. I also downloaded the PDF on your website. “……Greek word…does not mean worship”.
@@Hyorikatsu I find that we will be much closer to understanding these passages if we do NOT use the English word 'worship' to translate the Greek or the Hebrew words. If someone prostrates before someone or some god in a temple, it is already inherently understood that the person is showing deep respect and submission. The modern penchant to read the idea of "worship" into the act is unnecessary, often inaccurate, and it injects an interpretation that is not necessarily there. "Idolatry" would be an obvious and observable act because the "idolater" would be either prostrating before the image/statue of an idol or offering sacrifice to it.
The issue of the "correct" pronunciation of NT Greek terms has been an ongoing debate for centuries. See the excellent recent work by Benjamin Kantor, "The Pronunciation of New Testament Greek" (Wm. B. Eerdmans, 2023).
@@tomwadsworth One of the tools I have used is to have a conversation with a current greek person living in Greece, asking about meanings and pronunciations. Modern Greek is still very similar to koine, and the pronunciations are still very intact. omicron and omega are still very different sounds, as are episilon and ata.
@@jimyoungblood1687 I've been to Greece several times, and my experience (with omicron and omega) was not the same as yours. Kantor's book also says that Koine and Modern Greek pronounce omicron and omega the same way. All that aside, we all tend to pronounce Greek the way we learned it. Right or wrong, I learned it in 1972 from J. Gresham Machen's grammar, which also pronounces omicron and omega the same way. Ultimately, we can't allow pronunciations to divide us or to make us despise other pronunciations. (I'm not saying you're doing this.) But Kantor's recent scholarly deep-dive into the issue is a helpful resource.
@@tomwadsworth Tom, I apologize and do not mean to bring discord. My third year greek prof who we called "Doc: was a stickler for pronunciation, and would often use humiliation to bring us in line when we strayed. So, following strict rules rather than loose rules of pronunciation was drummed into us. By the way, I loved Doc, and later in his life we were best of friends. Blessings to you.
You lost a bit of credibility when you said "Sunday/Friday Salaam" refers to prostration. It never has. Salaam is a greeting. It means peace. A muslim's Friday salaam is a holy day greeting, not a prostration.
The Old Testament was written in Hebrew Tom. The Levites would not have accepted any other togue. The septuagenarian was redacted from the new Testament period.
I am sorry, I don't see you point about prostration. In many, if not all of the cases where people fall on their faces and prostrate themselves before God, are they not worshipping God? That might not be how you or I typically 'worship', but it emphasises how meaning has been sucked out of the word. 'Worship' that is merely singing a trite ditty about how 'I' feel towards God is not true worship.
Overkill discussion to the point of monotony and boredom. DO NOT THINK YOU WILL BE HEARD FOR YOUR MANY WORDS. Excellent research, thorough discussion, and thankfully amendable to 1.75x playback speed. Thank you.
@@tomwadsworth I thoroughly enjoyed the video. The Greek words matter and your videos on this subject has brought so much clarity to me. Thank you so much.
57:30 Sorry, but it is literal. We are to present ourselves as a living sacrifice. I agree not a cow or sheep. Living sacrifice as in physical repentance. That is our reasonable worship. Rom 12:1
If it is literal, you would be literally dead. Your literal blood would be splattered on a literal altar. And a literal priest would be presiding over the literal burning of your literal dead body. When Paul adds the qualifier λογικὴν, he makes clear that λατρείαν in Rom 12:1 is not to be understood literally. Thanks to the literal once-for-all sacrifice of Jesus, you can respond to his literal sacrifice with a metaphorical sacrifice of offering your life in obedience.
This is also used extensively in Hebrews, including the verse about offering a sacrifice of praise. Another angle is that Paul is giving a subtle put-down of Gnosticism, that would look at one’s corporeal body as being unable to be holy and totally unacceptable to a REAL God of spirits (as they would view God). Gnosticism not only would deny a literal incarnation of God into a body, but indirectly denies the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the Believer.
Misconstruing Jew Judah when scripture says Israel which is ALL 12 tribes. All 12 tribes are not the Jews, only the tribes of Benjamin and Judah are referenced as Jews in scriptures
At 54, “things changed with Jesus.” Matthew 5:17 would bring that into question. Perhaps things changed with the destruction of the temple and the diaspora. But perhaps even more, things changed with the severe antisemitism of the Roman “church.” But Jesus prophesied that the day would come when men would think they were doing a service to God by killing true believers. The many massacres carried out against Torah observant believers in the following centuries certainly validate that prophecy. The Roman church simply replaced the heads of their gods with images said to be of the saints and apostles and put lots and lots of lipstick on their pigs. Following false beliefs places one squarely on the broad road, sad to say. You cannot be on both the narrow road and the broad road simultaneously. Most of Christendom has been on the broad road for a very long time. So long that the broad road seems like the right one for everyone.
I'm not sure what you mean. It's well known that the early church widely used the Greek OT (Septuagint). Many of the OT quotations cited by NT writers are clearly from the Greek OT.
@@tomwadsworth ok so then you really need to look up what israel /yudea thought of it - talk to some jewish scholars, simply put it was hated and never used look up why and what they did with the copy of it in Yerusalem. you got to learn the differences of why greek in western countries was used whn no njewish leader anywhere ever wanted to let it be used compared to what they did in israel area also check out what they used in samaria. and jesus didint speak greek he only used aramaic and little hebrew, he may have talked alittle greek with western foreigners though. everything in the gosples has to be checked with the aramiac esp the first 3
Worship came way before Jesus Christ. And Jesus Christ even said the true worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth. Worship means getting into God's presence David knew what worship was. 73
The New Testament was written in Greek by the Apostles, and Jesus' brothers. Only the Pharisees and leaders spoke Hebrew. The whole world spoke and read Greek because God saw to it that His Word would be translated into Greek directly from the original Hebrew scrolls in Jerusalem by 70 scribes who went to Alexandria. That was in 280 B.C. 90% of the quotes in the N.T. from the O.T. match the Septuagint Old Testament and the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Yes, it seems paganistic to us to prostrate before another human. But in the Bible, it was common to prostrate before another human. In these dozens of cases, the person is often not a pagan, and is usually prostrating before an honored human or a superior, such as a king or a prophet.
@@tomwadsworth Sorry I should have qualified it better. I meant post Jesus coming to us. And can fully understand it in Old Testament times. The kings and prophets were Gods anointed that wielded enormous power on behalf of God. But not so know.
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Thank you for your kind words. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
When I was a pastor, 50% of our gatherings were spent caring for each other, discussing internal benevolence etc..ay any time 1/5 were in a crisis so 4/5 were helping that group...it was not a burden..it was wonderful
@ChristianRevivalOrg I am assuming that you are writing this comment although you are most probably deceased, being that you refer to yourself as a " former" pastor. Yet I suppose that it could be possible that the apostles could have retired!
@@Brotheral-pb1oj I filled in as a youth pastor, because there were no other people that could. The church then hired someone andnthey took over. I am ready in season and out of season, but God doesnt always keep someone in the same role. God bless.
@@Brotheral-pb1ojIsn't that a different person?
@@danello7 I'm sorry! I don't understand what you mean!
When you “were” a pastor? Did God call you to be a pastor…for all time or just a short time?
I love this idea of edification
The interesting thing is how after I was born again, there were a number of occasions when I was “worshipping” as we do in the modern west by standing and singing, but I found my legs unable to support me and I would end up kneeling. It wasn’t quite prostration, but it seems to be a common phenomenon when someone is overcome by the Holy Spirit 🕊️
i bet the early church didn't have the ubiquitous worship team and worship leader that's insidiously crept into so many contemporary churches.
IKNOW they didn't have them,because there's no mention of them in the NT.
I am so glad I found this channel .
And is half comprised of narcissistic people wanting admiration for themselves rather than God.
Watch the first video. Yes you are correct.
That's because no one in the early church had musicianship skills.
I really enjoyed your teaching prof.Tom. Thanks and God bless.
"GOD that made the world and ALL things therein,
Seeing that ‘HE IS’ LORD of heaven and earth,
Dwelleth 'N-O-T' in temples Made with Hands;
Neither is 'Worshipped' with men's Hands,
As though HE 'Needed' Anything,
Seeing HE Giveth to all Life, and Breath, and All Things."
(Acts 17:24-25)
Good point
This is fascinating. I’m soaking it all in. Thank you.
thank you from the bottom of my heart. Listened to you for the first time two days ago and have found this so helpful. I received Christ as my Savior almost 41 years ago and have been reading His Word faithfully through the decades and have seen things that have made me wonder, "What is this really all about?" I've listened to part 1 twice and my wife and I are halfway through part 2 and already I'm understanding better why we meet together and how confused I've been about that English word Worship that, as can be seen from the comments, has many facets to it. And what we want to know is what those Greek words actually meant and consequently we will benefit. Your teaching helps me understand better what went wrong with our initial effort at home churching. We were making more like a protestant church service than "One Anothering" Thank you for sharing your many years of labor for us to benefit so easily, Praise the Lord!
Your comment resonates with me. I especially love that phrase "One Anothering". A friend shared part 1 with me this morning and I am so blessed by it- went through it twice. I intend to listen to the whole 7 installments. It is amazing how when we are committed to knowing the Truth of our faith, God orders our steps to solid resources like this. All glory to God
Shared this series with many people, very interestin research that challenges a very popular modern view in the Church. I love it
Very well done, my brother.
Thank you for sharing truth.
This is fascinating. Love it.
You had me at "Kittel's" and the "greet one another with a holy kiss" became more clear to me.
Wow, good teaching
Thank you, Tom.
Good information. I only recently found your channel, and having watched parts 1 and 2, I am looking forward to watching the rest, and find out what the early Church did, and what we should do today as Christians.
The image at 12:15 is Israel's King Jehu prostrating himself before Assyrian King Shalmaneser III. It appears on a black obelisk at the British Museum.
But I really love what you have done. Am looking forward to watch the other 5 episodes. God bless you
I know a church where people go to their knees before God. Thanks for the hours of fascinating talk.
Thank you so much
But the essential question is: Why is the current culture of praise a bad thing? Because it replaces the comprehensive teaching of the Bible. Most of Christendom has been led astray by 1700+ years of replacement theology, which is why comprehensive teaching and understanding of the Bible is minimal, and it cannot even be done unless we first get out of the ravages of replacement theology. "Good can be the worst enemy of the best," said a famous writer (O.S.)
Perfection is the enemy of the good.
"You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
Matthew 5:48 (ESV)
we gotta obey 🤷♂️
While the dispensationalists have promoted the false doctrine of cessationism and sent the HOLY SPIRIT out of the assembly gathering
What is a good resource to learn more about replacement theology?
@40:36
As a saint living in the last days awaiting the coming of the LORD prostration has been a part of my life. It is with great expectancy that I wait to bow down in the presence of my Creator and ELOHIM face to the ground and inhale His presence.
I recall struggling with the Parable of the Good Samaritan because the text simply does not refer to the beaten man as the Samaritan’s neighbor: Rather, Jesus was answering the Lawyer by telling a parable and asking the Lawyer “Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour >>>unto him that fell among the thieves
I really thank you for this!
My take is: Society grow and people evolve. They would never do things the exact way it was done centuries prior. It is impossible.
Our goal is not to trying to go back to the same circumstantial ways of the first church or any period for that matter but try to learn from both the positives and negatives.
The early church's gathering in homes,caves,dens etc was not a standard that they sort on purpose but only a consequence.
They were poor people who left the security and comfort of the temple worship system- where else could they have gone?
What we need to see and take particular note of is how not withstanding the major drawbacks to their several disadvantages they, upon finding such joy and fulfillment in Christ were able to take these negatives and achieve great obedience to God and service to each other.
Now today we are far more privileged and have the benefit of large buildings dedicated to the service of the saints through Christ. We need not try now merely abandon these and seek to go back to homes or such like. What we need do is devote our hearts,lives and all such provisions and humbly ask God to so touch/change us that we too in our day like saints of old may too find great fulfillment and obedience with our present lot.
To each his own let every generation serve God in the order in which God had called them not covet those things that belong to another people and time. Only let Jesus change our hearts.
Salvation is of the Lord not by man's doing.
Let us agree to disagree peacefully. I agree that we cannot go back fully, but I do agree about the need to return to a biblical base foundation. For most of the churches today lacks that. Smaller groups makes for a better foundation. You won't get lost. Accountability is place better. The praise teams have gotten too secular in a lot of churches. He's teaching us to step back and take a sincere look at where we come from and how far we have departed.
@@Wanda-i9yDon't think you understand his/her post correctly.
Your diatribe is vanity.
@@Wanda-i9y We need to go back to caring FOR EACH OTHER. Not a BUILDING, PASTOR OR CEREMONY - that is of the Pharisees... that's what JESUS rebuked. FALSE CEREMONY. GOD bless you and all here.
First, to compare the freedom we have in America to the totalitarian Roman Empire ruling over Israel is poor. We never had the persecution like many during the early church.
Second, God never asked His children to continue to fully adapt to modern culture. Those in the 1600s understood prostration as worship, regardless of whether it was to an idol or the Most High. Sadly, man continues to get the Word to adapt to our ways.
God hasn't changed; man does. We get bored of the old, tried and true, so we create new methods to suit our nature.
We changed the definition of worship to God.
Thank you!
Awesome!
I remember a while ago reading something in the book of Daniel and saw that Nebuchadnezzar (I'm sure I've spelt his name wrong 😂) had "fallen down to worship Daniel", but Daniel didn't correct him. This thoroughly confused me, so I went to the interlinear and saw that the word can also mean prostrate, and just assumed that that was the more appropriate meaning to attribute to it. But never went back into the topic, as I've continued to read the word, that same question of people "worshipping" has come to mind in terms of what it really means. So thank you for this study!!
I have experienced that it’s far easier to pray kneeling, head down on the floor.
This means. Worship is more horizontal than vertical in New testament . Great insight.
Thank you for your support. I'm working on a book on this topic. If you'd like to be updated on its publication, you can join the email list at tomwadsworth.com/contact.
A book, Gospel Worship by Jeremiah Burroughs helped me understand what the Bible says about how and why true worship is so critical to men and God.
True worshippers worship God in Spirit and in Truth. This simply means that everything True believers do is for God's glory. Worship has nothing to do with where we go to assemble ourselves. Worship is every breath we take and every step we make until we leave this world.
You missed the point. It's obvious that you didn't watch the video.
I was just thinking out loud! I promise you that I in no form or fashion meant to critique your presentation. I totally agree with your message. I thank God that you have the discernment and gall to present this much needed message in the midst of this current so-called christian movement here in America. Actually it was the Truths of your teachings that led me to comment on this subject, although I may have been a bit zealous. It is rare for me to hear any teachings that are not embedded in the current established Christian movement. I wish you Godspeed in your ministry.
@@tomwadsworthit seems obvious, by your remark, that you might be offended and a smidge snarky. Idk, just an observation. If I'm wrong then accept my sincere apology. I noticed you didn't comment back after this person explained the comment. Just bad manners.
@@cassielitton753 I did reply--by hitting the Like button. Another comment seemed unnecessary. We're good.
@@tomwadsworthyou’ve confirmed what I believed in Spirit, people love to “ go to the Greek” but the same gospel was preached to the Israelites, but in different words, I’ve never heard anyone confirm this, love to know your thoughts on the “ contradiction “ that is not a contradiction, I was ejected from reformed Presbyterian church for pointing this out with some other points,
Gave himself a ransom for all, can only mean a ransom for all, the reformed Presbyterians refuse to acknowledge this and use the verse “ ransom for many “for their false doctrines, but they clearly have no understanding who the “ saviours “ are when Edom ( esau ) is judged when kingdom is the Lords in Obadiah 1:17 and 1:24, they simply don’t understand what one in Christ means, as Christ is also one with his father and made the way for all men to be saved, ( propitiation for sins of the whole world)one there even told me God who has no beginning or no end died on the cross!!!
Sacrificing your life for your enemy’s as Jesus did and loving them, not judging them and doing his commandments with a broken heart and contrite spirit seems very close to what you have said, this would mean bowing down to him and trying with heart mind and soul to seek him,and do his ways, but of course only God can give this great gift.
Better still, kiss the Son, whiles you are alive, study like a workman, meditate day and night in his word, in the hope he gives you the “ earnest “ of the word, the “ sincere milk”. Psalms 2:12
“Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
Hebrews 4:2
“For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.”
Old Testament: same meaning as New Testament Joshua 1:8
“This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.”
2 Timothy 2:15
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
1 Timothy 2:6
“Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
Mark 10:45
“For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.”
1 John 2:2
“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
Not many “ righteous are saved from second death?
1 Peter 4:18
“And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?”
But God is not going to lose one “ sheep “from his pasture/field/ forest, psalm 100 says lands, not Israel……
But best to suffer for right doing than wrong doing, if so be …… 1 Peter 4:18 context KJV standard……
If so be one is blessed with the spirit Of God, Romans 8:9
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
Two of the Reformed Presbyterians even threatened me with violence, and their preacher said it was a myth that we need to be as a little child, and as humble , Matthew 18:3
“And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
Matthew 18:4
“Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.”
If I’ve confused, maybe this verse is true?? 1 Corinthians 1:27
“But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;”
One more question, whom was the disciple Jesus loved? Impossible it was John, Jesus did not have a brother called John.
John 19:26
“When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!” Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
Amazing. We should read Genesis 4:26. The last verse of the chapter. This is the beginning in human history of worship. The Greek word H7121 Kaw-raw' translated worship was of deep meaning. Apparently there are many other words translated as worship! Thanks a lot Tom.
My question, for clarity, is about prostration or bowing beficons. I find much beauty and honor in the Orthodox Church, but I question bowing or prostration before anyone but Christ.
It's wonderful to find this. I went through this study in 1979/80 time frame primarily using Vines as a resource. I am an engineer not a theologian. I was shocked at what I didn't find. Finally, I searched for God's definition of worship and found it in James 1:27 and Romans 12:1. Also, you mentioned "Holladay". I am assuming Carl Holladay. Carl is my wife's first cousin. I used to go to their family reunions with my "one question" for Carl. A very nice guy!
Thanks for the comments!
I would tweak your observations to say that "God's definition of threskeia worship is found in James 1:27, and God's definition of Christian latreia worship is found in Romans 12:1." The two verses use two different Greek words that have two distinct and different meanings, and none of them are the same as the modern English term "worship."
I don't recall mentioning Holladay, but I've long been a fan of Carl Holladay's work. An excellent NT scholar!
I have two questions for you: (1) In what state are you located? and (2) With which church culture/denomination are you most familiar? Is it the Church of Christ?
@@tomwadsworth Tennessee - Oak Ridge area. And yes, CoC is the tradition I grew up in. The congregation I am with now is CoC, but there has been a lot of positive movement toward freedom in Christ - especially compared to the congregations I grew up in.
I got to hear a pastor say the church will worship the way he wants to.
Loud music.
Standing with hands up.
Lots of lights.
Repetitive lyrics.
Lots of adrenaline and drums.
People standing enjoying the show.
Why not? They practiced hard.
This has got me willing to dig deeper and ponder how we got off track.
The gatherings of the believers has evolve from the writtings of the church fathers and the emergenced of formal church buildings after the persecution of the christians in the early fourth century. And the churches started to perform the what we call now eucharist to the roman catholic and orthodox
God created: Man evolves (i.e. does it his/my way!)
“When I saw him, I fell at his feet as if I were dead. But he laid his right hand on me and said, “Don’t be afraid! I am the First and the Last.”
Revelation 1:17 NLT
My understanding of "worship" changed when i read in Hebrews 11:21 KJV(Modern versions are trash) that ..."Jacob worshipped leaning upon his staff". That got me asking what is worship then? Your research answers that question.
Yes! It's important to note that Jacob "was dying." When an elderly person prostrates, they need assistance getting down and back up. That's why his staff was needed for assistance.
Compare the story of Naaman in 2 Kings 5:18: "'Regarding this matter may the Lord forgive your servant: when my master goes into the house of Rimmon to worship (prostrate) there, and he leans on my hand and I bow down (prostrate) in the house of Rimmon, when I bow down (prostrate) in the house of Rimmon, may the Lord please forgive your servant in this matter.” Naaman's master was evidently elderly, and he needed Naaman's assistance with the physical gesture of proskynesis. Naaman knew that performing proskynesis in an idol's temple was forbidden in Israel, and so he seeks forgiveness for appearing to do it in the temple of Rimmon.
You may discuss this, but in the OT, "Worship" is often paired with serve. Thus denoting that, while they pair, they are not the "same thing".
Agreed. See 48:47.
@@tomwadsworth I am at 40 minutes now.
Worship is worth-ship. It is giving worth to one who is entitled to receive or deserves it. It is a mental predisposition, but not only, rather than a bodily exercise when adoration and respect are expressed. This is notwithstanding, the numerous acts of prostration evidenced in the new testament including the book of revelations.
Tom, I think you miss spoke the hebrew word חוה means Eve, the word they translate as worship is שחה.
I am ejoying this series, I have been thiking about this subject for awhile, glad other people have seen this as well.
I, too, thought that the root was שחה. Historically, הִֽשְׁתַּחֲוָ֛ה had been seen as emerging from the root of שחה. But this is syntactically difficult since the hithpalel for שחה should not be הִֽשְׁתַּחֲוָ֛ה. With the discovery of a new Ugaritic verb, scholars now commonly see the root as חוה, which has the same meaning as שחה. See H. D. Preuss, “חוה, etc.” Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, eds. G. Johannes Botterweck and Helmer Ringgren (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1980), 4:249; and Edwin Yamauchi, “חוה,” Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, eds. R. Laird Harris, Gleason Archer, and Bruce Waltke (Chicago: Moody Press, 1980), 1:267.
Could you please explain what Jesus means when He says, " Those who worship God must worship Him in spirit and truth.
Thanks for asking. I think the verse is wrongly translated when it uses the word 'worship.' Proskuneo--in its 260-some occurrences in the NT and LXX--never means "worship" in the sense that we use the word today. When the word is used in a temple context, as it is here in John 4, it routinely refers to the obligatory ritual act of prostrating oneself before the deity. Jesus is not here trying to refine how prostration was done, but he is calling for spiritual sincerity ("in spirit and truth" vs. 23-24), not just the rote performance of a religious duty. Jesus called for the same spiritual sincerity in his teachings about fasts, prayers, vows, donations to the poor, loving enemies, etc., in the Sermon on the Mount (Matt 5-6).
Jesus' ultimate point in John 4:20-24 is that sacred places (temples), whether in Gerizim or Jerusalem ("in this mountain or in Jerusalem" v. 21) are soon to be obsolete. He makes the same point explicitly in Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.
It should be noted that the context of John 4 says nothing about Christian assemblies, and none of the NT epistles ever applied John 4:24 to Christian assembly activities. Even in the 2nd-4th centuries, early Christians did not apply the verse to assembly behavior. They applied the verse as I described it above.
In November I will be publicly making the case that "Proskuneo Does Not Mean 'Worship'" at the annual Evangelical Theological Society Conference in San Antonio.
I think it does mean worship. I think it is the average Christian's understanding of the word worship that is wrong.@@tomwadsworth
Worship must come from the heart and be based on the Word of God
If the word worship means posture/bowing one’s physical body just how the Old Testament talks about people bowing the knee to Baal, then wouldn’t worship in spirit and truth mean the same thing? That we spiritually and truthfully bow in submission and reverence to the Lord God by following his commandments and reverencing Him and no other? Isn’t this the first commandment to Love the Lord God with all your heart mind soul and strength. And the second would naturally follow, which is to love our neighbors as we love ourselves, which are found in the 10 Commandments and all throughout Gods statutes and ordinances. I pray the Lord lead us into all truth and understanding 🙏❤
I think it's rather ironic that some churches criticize others for "kneeling during worship."
I grew up kneeling in church but I’ve never heard any criticism of that practice.
Well i guess you say the sacrifice is both metaphorical and spiritual.' That's good.. and i realize you're doing a word study on worship..
But it's more than that.
It's a reality in Christ that we died in Him.
We are coming into agreement that with G_d that our flesh was unified with Christ. It's
much more than a metaphor brother Tom. Shalom.
I would be interested in learning if this study yields the same results in the Textus Receptus.
This study yields the same results in the Textus Receptus.
Real worship is love of God's word and right doctrine.
@@ishiftfocus1769 Real worship is Colossians chapter 1 verse 10.
@@Brotheral-pb1ojAmen - so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God (NASB)
@soundlycreative "EXACTLY "! This is my utmost desire, yet I need all the help I can get from Jesus to walk that walk!
@@Brotheral-pb1oj amen again❤️ I understand that only through our faith in the Holy Spirit working in us can we please God and bring forth these good fruits. I love how Christ tells that one person “Why call me good, there is one good, God.” (Paraphrased)
This showed me that to follow Christ we must always acknowledging God as our source of good, and by His Grace we will bring forth fruits as we put forth the effort. That is what I think most get wrong, that they think they don’t have to do “work.” This is the really challenge ;)
@soundlycreative You are right on the money. When someone mentions the word work, people start stumbling all over the place.Please let me try to explain. I'll start by saying that God has a "format " in place for His redemptive work in the earth! He's not just doing things randomly or helter-skelter.He has an order of operations.OPERATION #1: Jesus appears on the earth preaching the salvation of souls through faith in his atonement for our sins. ( It is an offer that we should not refuse).OPERATION#2: Jesus knows that He will be here for only a short period of time, so He chooses men and trains them in the art of discipleship and tells them that when He leaves that they must carry on the WORKS in which He started. (The works is to be witnesses to the atonement of Christ for the salvation of souls that we should not perish when we leave this world) OPERATION #3 : Jesus is killed buried and resurrected and is about to leave the earth, but before He goes He gives His disciples instructions as to what He expects them to do after His departure. He also bids them them to tarry in Jerusalem until He sends the Holy Spirit (Ghost) to them for to empower them to do the works of apostles, disciples and believers in general. Operation#4: At the day of pentatcost the Holy Spirit does come and empower them to go to work for the Lord. OPERATION #5: Jesus is with the Father at His right hand, and now the apostles are carrying out the ministry. There goal is to lead people to Christ, and they do this through individual ministry, sometimes putting assemblies together or what ever opportunity they have to minister! OPERATION #6. This is where we fit in. From the preaching of the apostles until this very day, Jesus has not come back to lead any of us in Hos ministry. Jesus put His ministry of salvation onto the hands of the apostles , who in turn passed the ministry to the next generation of believers, and so on up to this very day.! My point is that Christ is effectively using born-again believers ( HIS CHURCH to proclaim the gospel up until this very moment. Whoever gets born-again today is subject to the same calling as our predecessors in the faith. We are to be witnesses of Christ! (Christ said if you are ashamed of me before men , I will be ashamed of you before My Father in Heaven). Mark chapter 8 verse 38! Christ said that we are ministers of reconciliation! 2nd Corinthians chapter 5 verse 18. We are to bear fruit! John chapter 15 verse 1 thru 8. And to let our light so shine that men can see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven! I believe that if people could see and understand the format and operations of God, that they would not stumble over the word work. To be honest: Once a person is truly born-again, everything you do AFTERWARDS is works. Because we live for His Glory. We were bought for a price! SERIOUS FOOD FOR SERIOUS THOUGHT!
Yes brother. Many churches miss this. Of course, the baptists and litergical churches do mostly. But unfortunately; it appears that you have not experienced a Pentecostal fellowship. Baptists and liturgical churches script out their worship and have not taught their people how and when to sing the 'new song.'
Plenty of time is spent by worshippers prostrating before the King of Kings. The Holy Spirit is not slack on teaching those who welcome Him that we worship the King of the universe.
Your points and scholarship are taken and needed. But many are already there.
100% agreed that we missed the edification. There should not be poor with needs unmet in our fellowships.
Worship has always meant more, but the higherlings- pastors are usually the problem. Just saying..
I wonder why he didn't stick to the word prostrate in the explanation of Christ's encounter with the Samaritan woman. The word "worship" was used a few times between Christ and the woman.
He talks about this passage at the 35:35 min mark
The issue here is not that there is no need or reason for worship in Christian but what is the purpose and how is this purpose fulfilled. Is it fulfilled by through physical means e.g. dancing, offering, jumping, singing, prostration, Kneeling down. Reading the NT, how die the early church perceive worship, is our gathering for worship or for fellowship. God is everywhere and He can be worship anywhere why gathering then to worship God that could be worship anywhere by anyone?
Thx, many may be deceived, thinking they won't "worship" the beast per the English, but merely willfully submitting to antiGod policies is worshipping the beast.
This right here would be an awesome subject to study. It seems everybody’s waiting for a very obvious antichrist and a very obvious bowing of the knee and a very obvious mark on the forehead and right hand, but it seems that this is not the case.
PLEASE PROVIDE LINK TO THE DISSERTATION.
Send me an email, and I'll send it. You can find me at tomwadsworth.com.
"God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth." Jn 4:24 - This verse seems to be indicating that there is a spiritual dimension to proskyneo that Jesus is introducing. Tom, what are your thoughts on Jn 4:24?
I agree. I’ve never thought of this verse as referring to a church service or gathering, but always mixing our spirit, the Holy Spirit & the truth of who God is to honor Him.
26:20 That puts a whole new complexion on Judas kissing Jesus - doesn't it?
I was thinking the same thing...
Great explanation on worship. I know I have been confused about the meaning. In the past, I have had Catholics tell me it is okay to worship Mary because they do not worship her as a god. So I thought that was interesting. But I believe that some do actually fall on their face and nose to Mary also. So I don't know how they can explain that. But I have also read the Catholic bible, Douay Rheims. In that, it uses the word 'god' to mean anything from a historical biblical character, to an engraved image or idol, and also current leadership. And even in our modern Bibles it speaks of "there are many gods" which points to leaders and historical figures too.
So by the real meaning of worship, I'd say worship of other gods would also include leaders, pop stars, historical figures, or any gods from the various established religions.
Fantastic!! I loved the clarity. This is seminary level learning.\
Thanks for the compliment. Just curious ... (1) In what state do you live? (2) With what denomination are you most familiar? (3) What is your highest educational level?
@Peachcreekmedia This videois simply true teachings, prompted by the Holy Spirit. No True minister of God attends any seminary. It is the Holy Spirit that equips called ministers to proclaim the GOOD NEWS of the Gospel. 1st John chapter 2-verse 27. Seminaries are a product of the traditions of men. None of the original apostles ever attended any kind of school to learn anything about proclaiming the Gospel. For what it's worth, I submit to you that there are many DIFFERENT Seminaries that teach many DIFFERENT faiths in our Lord. Before you jump on the bandwagon with these so-called ministers, please read Ephesians chapter 4 verses 1 thru 6. My entire point is that this teaching on this video comes from the Holy Spirit. Seminary teachings comes from whatever man invented the denomination!
@tomwadsworth I apologize for belatedly replying to your questions. I live in SC. I'm not personally familiar with any denomination, yet I have researched many. I have, in fact joined a couple of denominational assemblies years ago, but it was all superficial because I was under the erroneous impression that as a new convert it was my duty to join an organization al representation of what was and still is deemed to be God's Church. I was led by the Holy Spirit to come out of the traditions of men and to be a witness of Christ, as to being rooted and grounded in Christ, and to being complete in Him first and foremost, and not adding on unessesary titles and labels that allow for the leaven of divisions and outright chaos that has engulfed the so-called christian presence in America. As far as my education, I'm a high school grad. Personally I think that your teachings concerning the assembly of believers is impressive to me in several aspects. Not trying to flatter you, but it is rare for me to see or hear any minister teach the Truth in the midst of the status quo. I can appreciate you not being judgemental concerning what I call the established religious movement. I respect your piety, yet as for myself, I find it hard to understand how anyone can be born-again and not already understand the points that you are making based on scripture. I pray that I'm not being judgemental for questioning someone's salvation. I ask that you pray for me to be enlightened in the righteousness of God.🙏❤️🤔
@@Brotheral-pb1oj Thanks for all your comments. I think that you are on a productive path. Stand firm.
@@tomwadsworth Love ya much! I'm truly blessed to know that you are truly blessed!
contextually in the Tenach it is usually just suggesting to bow or lower one self, suggesting submission, the obligationis always centered upon the intent of the heart and not the actual physical manifestation.
If in your heart you know that you are but dust, then dust would assume it's rightful place Face to the dust.
Like The Wailing Wall in Jerusalem
They are standing. They don't have their knees on the ground and their faces to the ground.
Okay, Tom, I'm with you. But if we're to be rigorous about consistent translation, should we translate John 4:23-24 using "prostrate" rather than "worship"? And if we do, are we saying that Jesus was simply picking up on the word used by the woman at the well, going with it, and making his point about genuine spirituality, but not suggesting that God wants us to prostrate ourselves -- ever? You seem to have hurried away from this passage without fully stating how it fits with all the other instances of προσκυνεύω.
1x(8/25/24)……….0…….55:00……1:01:00…….done thank you excellent
Seems to me the basic point of bowing down is to show surrender. "Present your bodies as living sacrifices, which is your rational worship."
It is a good point that our Bibles do lose some meaning in translation - as with the example when the Magi worship baby Jesus, in Matthew 2:11. When you know the prostration implied by the Greek description you can see just how these grown men, rich journeyers, are worshipping God who has been born a baby. It's powerful and beautiful. I looked up the Greek and saw that proskynéō includes 'toward' and 'kiss': "(from 4314 /prós, "towards" and kyneo, "to kiss") - properly, to kiss the ground when prostrating before a superior; to worship, ready "to fall down/prostrate oneself to adore on one's knees" (DNTT); to "do obeisance" (BAGD)."
When Jesus says in John 4:24 we should worship "in Spirit and in Truth," we could understand this worship then as moving beyond the prostration that occurred at the Temple. Although we may still bow and worship at His feet, we now worship in the Holy Spirit, in an intimacy and in the full Gospel Truth as redeemed people. So I think there is also a profound newness for how worship should be in the New Testament reality.
I think you're on the right track. But remember that the NT does not use any "worship" terms in reference to Christian activity in their assemblies. The modern church culture assumes that its meetings fall under the category of "worship." The first century assemblies, in fact, did not consider their meetings as "worship" nor as "services."
So we know what the Greek words translated as worship, my question is what would be the word worship in Greek? I mean if what Greek word exactly means worship? Or is this word even exist in Ancient Greek or Hebrew?
Great question!
The Greek word σέβω might be the closest Greek term to our English term 'worship'. When I studied every time σέβω is found in the Septuagint and in the New Testament, the word mostly connotes the idea of "revering."
Jesus uses the word in Matt 15:8 when he quotes Isa 29:13:
"‘This people Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
And in vain do they worship (σέβω) Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”
Here, σέβω is used synonymously with the idea of "honoring."
Paul uses a form of the word in Acts 17:23 in reference to the Greeks' "objects of worship" : "For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship (σεβάσματα "objects of reverence"), I also found an altar with this inscription, ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ Therefore, what you worship (εὐσεβέω) in ignorance, this I proclaim to you."
Remember: the word σέβω is not used in the New Testament to refer to what Christians did in their assemblies. The reason? I think it's because first century Christian assemblies had no sacred items or representations of the deity to revere in their assemblies. Christianity was odd to the surrounding culture; it did not match up with anyone's idea of a "religion" (see Jas 1:26-27). Christianity was a "Way" (Acts 9:2; 18:25-26; 19:9, 23: 24:14, 22), not a "religion" with sacrifices, altars, statues, priests, and temples. In this way, the Jesus movement was vastly different from anything that Jews or pagans understood or practiced.
@@tomwadsworth Ok, makes a lot sense. Thank you for taking time to answer my question. God bless you.
The 2nd commandment is have NO IMAGES
Worship means to me, How you live your life in honor of God.
Worship is celebrating the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and it is based on individual relationship with Jesus.
@@RevelationMinistries114Did you listen to the entire series? God doesn't need anything from you. People do. Caring for one another is the highest act of worship.
@@graftme3168 That is not worship. That’s called loving your neighbor and being a servant. But worship is celebrating Jesus for what he has done.
@@graftme3168 And yes watched the entire series and thoroughly enjoyed it.
@@RevelationMinistries114but how is that fleshed out in our daily lives? You are making generalities.
What is confusing about this presentation, and the one before it, is that it is not clear how Dr. Wadsworth is defining the English word "worship." Is he saying that when we gather in our assembies that we should not engage in prayer, or sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs? And that we should not be doing these things with a deep sense of reverence and respect for God? And what did Jesus mean when He told the Samaritan woman that we are to worship God in Spirit and in truth?
Defining the English word 'worship' is a meaningless task. After all, none of the NT writers (or Jesus) ever used the English word 'worship'. As I explain in the videos, the key issue is not to define 'worship'.
The key issue is to define the Greek words that are translated as "worship." As it turns out, the five Greek words that are translated as "worship" are not synonymous; they all refer to different aspects of behavior done for deity. Video #2 explains this, and it answers your question about the Samaritan woman.
In addition, none of these Greek "worship" words are used to describe what Christians did in their meetings. In addition, even though we have massive volumes of Christian writings from the second and third centuries, these later Christians also did not use "worship" words to describe their assemblies. Why is that?
Video #6 shows how 4th century Christianity began to use ancient "worship" language in reference to Christian assemblies. In essence, today's widespread idea that "we gather to worship" is a flawed idea that has no basis in NT Christianity.
@@tomwadsworthBut what about the singing of psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs? What about the Lord's Table? What about baptism? And what about what our Lord called the first and greatest commandment, to love the Lord our God with all our soul, heart and might?
I should mention that I was a part of a house church a few years ago, and understand that the early church would have functioned quite differently from our modern, institutionalized church. But we did sing hymns in our group, and we would have someone deliver a sermon of sorts, as I was called upon to do from time to time.
None of the Greek words for "worship" are ever used to describe any of those activities (singing, Lord's Supper, baptism, or sermons). They don't qualify as "proskuneo worship," "latreuo worship," "leitourgeo worship," "sebomai worship," or "threskeia worship." Watch Video #2. Having said that, it's clear in the NT that the early church gatherings certainly included singing and the Lord's Supper.
The early assemblies certainly included "teaching," but the idea of "preaching sermons" is not. Watch Video #4. The word "sermon" is not found in the Bible ... not even in the "Sermon on the Mount." The term is only found in subheadings that were added by the Bible publisher.
I should add that baptism is never depicted as an assembly activity.
Here's the bottom line. Our penchant of describing our meetings as "worship" and describing our assembly activities as "acts of worship" is foreign to the NT.
We should be asking, "What was the purpose of these gatherings?" Paul couldn't be clearer when he identifies "edification" as the purpose of the assembly and as the purpose of all assembly activities. "Let all things be done for edification." (1 Cor 14:26)
If we truly want to pattern today's assemblies after biblical assemblies, we should stop trying to justify what we do. Instead, we should open our Bibles and let it instruct us. Truth is, our assemblies are patterned after centuries of errant thinking, not after the clear teaching of the Bible.
I guess that the main reservation I have about your presentation is the antithesis that you posit between the "horizontal" and the "vertical." I think that, biblically speaking, the horizontal exists precisely because it is grounded in the vertical. All true believers share a mystical union with Christ, and should share a common devotion to Him, which, in turn, should draw us together as one body in Christ.
Jesus did not tell the Samaritan woman that worship was abolished. Rather, He said that "true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers." We first begin by presenting "your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship" (ten logiken latreian - Rom. 12:1). "Through Him, then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name" (Heb. 12:15). And this, in turn, means that in our assemblies we are to speak to one another in "psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord; always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father . . ." (Eph. 5:19,20).
And believe it or not, the word "sermon" actually does occur in the Bible! In Acts 20:7, describing an assembly gathering in a private home on a Sunday evening, Luke tells us that Paul protracting his "ton logon," which is translated in the Latin Vulgate as "sermonem."
@@robertwheeler1158 (1) I never said that the horizontal wasn’t grounded in the vertical. The point still stands: The lion’s share of NT assembly activities are clearly and indisputably horizontal activities that are directed to “one another.” Modern assemblies, by their own explicit admission, are “worship services” that are vertically directed to God.
(2) Concerning John 4, you have missed the essential point: proskuneo, whenever it is used in a temple context in the LXX and the NT, refers to prostration. In the first 300 years of Christianity, proskuneo is never used in reference to what Christians do when they get together. It again strongly appears that you have not listened to the presentation.
(3) Concerning Rom 12:1, Paul uses the term latreia, which does not mean “worship” in the modern sense. In the NT, latreuo and latreia never refer to Christian assembly activity. If you listened to the presentation, you would know what latreia means.
Please … before you critique the presentation, spend the time to listen to the presentation.
And as to "looking God in the eye," all the OT instances of the appearance of the Angel of the Lord, a theophany--some of which include patriarchs and others saying, "I have seen God and not died"-- the subjects of the appearances look at the Lord. The whole point of the theophany was to be able to see and interact with God in a form enabling a person to encounter God and not die.
...and I have no idea why a phrase above posted with a cross-out in it. Sorry.
Is the movie "Anchorman" a movie that Christ would approve of us watching???
So, how do we understand the Psalms in the Old Testament, the doxologies in the New Testament, or Paul's instructions to the church in Ephesians 5? David is celebrated for his deep, worshipful adoration of God, and Jesus is called the King of Judah, or the King of Praise. This perspective on worship seems to overlook the full spiritual experience that the Bible's history and theology present. It reflects a Eurocentric, Westernized view of worship.
Serious question, In NT times, at what point is "modern tithes and offerings" idol worship of Money. In other words for example, prosperity gospel....
Tithing isn’t in the New Testament. It’s isn’t a biblical concept for the church (the body of Christ)
Yes. I agree, 🤣 my point!
I attend the Church of Christ, I'd like to know, are we close? I formally attended Baptist or non denomination
Short answer: Not close. See Worship #7 What Do We Do Now? th-cam.com/video/CGPSQVoZrMg/w-d-xo.html
@tomwadsworth I watched it. My church, assembly combined with Sunday school seems maybe as close as I can get. Our preacher gives short sermons mostly about application of the Gospel to life, our Sunday school has a lot of back and forth, and our praise music is nothing like a concert. What do you think? I know every church is different, even within the Church of Christ
@@jondeauxman I don't want to be the Judge of anyone's assembly; I simply want to point out Paul's emphasized directives. In 1 Cor 14, Paul focused on whether "all things" were done for edification (v. 26). His directive can be achieved in many different settings. But when the stated focus is on "worshipping God," the edification directive can get lost.
where can i access your dissertation?
Send me an email. You can find it at my website at www.tomwadsworth.com.
The Priests worshiped as they worked their specific functions.
Why I say this, is not the Hebraic word for worship & work have a commonality?? Again just asking!
But I appreciate the challenge on what we call worship!
Singing praises has its place, adoration too has its place! So I guess praising with adulation could be considered worship 😮🙌🎶
I know this is confusing. But remember: The challenge is NOT to define the English word 'worship'. That endeavor accomplishes nothing.
The challenge is (1) to define the Greek words that are translated as 'worship'. And since the NT does not use "worship language" to describe Christian assemblies, the challenge then is (2) to determine why the early Christians met, what did they do, and how did they describe what they were doing.
Your first premise: "The priests worshiped as they worked their specific functions" needs to be challenged. What do you mean by "worship"? How did you determine what you meant by "worship"? Does the Bible actually support your premise?
The OT (LXX) and the NT use a very specific word to describe what the Jewish priests did in the temple: leitourgeo/leitourgia. The word is used 150 times in the OT, and it refers to "priestly work." The word has no reference to what the priests were "feeling" as they worked.
If the word worship means posture/bowing one’s physical body just how the Old Testament talks about people bowing the knee to Baal, then wouldn’t worship in spirit and truth mean the same thing? That we spiritually and truthfully bow in submission and reverence to the Lord God by following his commandments and reverencing Him and no other? Isn’t this the first commandment to Love the Lord God with all your heart mind soul and strength. And the second would naturally follow, which is to love our neighbors as we love ourselves, which are found in the 10 Commandments and all throughout Gods statutes and ordinances. I pray the Lord lead us into all truth and understanding 🙏❤
How can he say Christ used the Greek old testament. The scroll of Isaiah that Christ read in the synagogue is most likely to be either Aramaic or Hebrew.
Agreed
The Septuagint translation was in common use in Christ's time. Which was written in Greek
I seriously am concerned that The Master & his disciples used the Septuagint. As they were in the Temple or Synagogue which had Torah scrolls from which they would have read from. Aramaic was the common language amongst the people, Hebrew the Religious language of the Hebrew Temple & its priests; Greek apparently the business lingo. What reference is there that the 70 Rabbi’s who did the translating bought back their own copies to Israel in particular to Jerusalem? Just asking bcos it does not make sense! Thanks
Good questions, nicely asked.
When Alexander the Great conquered the countries around the Mediterranean basin, he injected the Greek language wherever he went. The pervasive Greek culture that he spread is called Hellenism, and it engulfed the land of the Jews in the first century.
So, the Greek language was quite widespread, even among the Jews. That's why all of the earliest NT manuscripts that we have are in Greek. None are in Hebrew or Aramaic.
Try doing a Google search for, "Did Jesus use the Septuagint." In the results, look for a source that you respect, then read what it says.
I'm not trying to be combative or argumentative. I'm just trying to help.
Why does my NASB say ministered in Act 13:2 when you are displaying it as serving in your NASB?
The NASB of 1995 says "ministered" in Acts 13:2. The new NASB of 2020 says "serving" in Acts 13:2. www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+13%3A2&version=NASB
To minister means to serve.
It began in house churches and it will finish in house churches.
Not to be critical but I listened to one of your videos about worship and I had to listened to the whole thing to understand one point and you could have told it in a couple paragraphs. The question once what was worship back then and all you had to say was what it was . I hate listening to a whole thing to find out I could have understood it in like 10 minutes yes the other stuff was informative about what worship was back then but if you would have just explained what it was and THEN explain why you believed that it would have been better I hate people give tiny bits and pieces as. Then keep us wandering right to the very end I don’t have that tension span. In other words get point and then tell why you believe that
Good input. I needed that.
@@tomwadsworthi read this man's comment and agreed hurriedly, but then realized I was just being ungrateful and impatient. If you didn't do a long winded and exhaustive investigation, then people would doubt your teaching. The bible says to test everything, but I can't test this much because you're so transparent and thorough.
@@mikem5475 It's true that I expected ardent criticism. That's why I took the time to explain my investigation. Thanks for being patient and open-minded.
I totally understand just how extremely frustrating it is to listen to long-winded explanations that never define or helps anyone to get to the point. Yet, learning patience through it all is very rewarding in itself.
After listening to all 7 youtubes on this subject I tried to look for lists or book published for my own personal library that clear up this subject once and for all. That is a great joy to me. Great work and dedication, much respects to you Tom, and to all others that enjoy textural criticism. Peace.
Loved this message until he claimed that Christians never Proskuneo (34:38). Luke 24:51-53 states:
51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. 52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. 53 And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.
The word worship here is Proskuneo. This act of Proskuneo is NOT a greeting, as the speaker claims. Jesus has left the scene. Moreover, it signals some emotional response, for when they finished with their Proskuneo they left with joy and praised God.
I have to question this research when the author makes such simple errors. Please be more scholastic and explain what the text says. Give more analysis rather than opinion.
Wouldn't the first century Christians not fully understand the vertical, because they were used to others doing that for them? I believe during the time of both the first and second temple, these functions did happen, as well as during all the time that there has been Jewish Synagogues, which is believed by historians to have existed in BC days or in that era. And, as you talked about, there was the separation of priests and non-priest duties/functions, many of the "lay" people would not have participated in these. And definitely still, in the first century AD time frame, as that is when the pharisaical mentality was happening. Pursuing a vertical, where you are now the priest (the veil to the Holy of Holies was ripped/torn) and our bodies/hearts are the temple, understanding and exhibiting that would have been a new thing. I doubt very seriously they understood this fully that fast.
I too am frustrated with the modern organized church context, but I think we are placing the first century Christians on a pedestal they never actually lived on themselves. Jesus had brought a whole new thinking to His plan of Salvation. Well, new to the Jewish community, and of course to the gentiles, He never has been confused about any of it. We are the ones trying to understand it all.
At the end of Acts 2 & 4 Jesus's gathered ekklesia immediately (in the Holy Spirit's Pentecostal power) formed a community which I believe we have yet to approach, let alone surpass?
Only time i saw a Christian protrate on a floor was in a dubious seeker friendly church - ironic
Worship of YHWH was something that happened at the Temple with blood sacrifice. We see in Acts that the Apostles continued to worship at Temple even after Christ was resurrected. And most of the Bible was written prior to the destruction of the Temple in 70AD. So after the destruction of the Temple, worship and sacrifice had to take new forms in both the synagogues and the Christian churches. Seems natural and logical.
Are you saying that the apostles were sacrificing animals in the temples in the New Testament and the book of acts? If that’s what you are saying then that is incorrect. The apostles went to the synagogues to preach the gospel. Acts 17 (Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and demonstrating that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus whom I preach to you is the Christ.”)
There was only one final sacrifice that was Jesus Christ. Hebrews 10 (When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.)
I think you are incorrect. Daily sacrifices were performed at the Temple in Jerusalem, with a lamb sacrificed every morning and every evening. The priests performed these rituals on the behalf of all the worshippers at the Temple. All attendees.
And Acts 21:26 shows Paul performing Temple rituals as usual:
"The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the Temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them."
This verse shows that Paul participated in Jewish purification rituals at the Temple in Jerusalem, even many years after Jesus' crucifixion.
It demonstrates that the early apostles, including Paul, continued to engage in some Jewish religious practices and attend the Temple, while also spreading their new faith in Jesus as the Messiah.
You are very wrong imo
It's right there in the Scripture.
I'm not making anything up.
Read the book of Hebrews again...
If the context of bowing down is done in reverence, lowering yourself. If I see someone bowed down before an idol or a person I would say they are worshiping. That’s the context. It’s not bowing down like to tie your shoelaces or pick something up. Fall on your face cause you tripped. This context is worship. I don’t really see why this word translated to worship is incorrect. Because of the first point context and meaning.
I see the point though that the English word worship doesn’t automatically imply bowing down. Which is why I would be more useful to translate it as it is or say “bow down and worship”.
Your observation aligns well with 21st century English-language thinking. But in the first century, if someone is seen bowed down before an idol, they would be said to be "prostrating."
@@tomwadsworth thanks so much for replying. I think I understand. So they would say “you’re not allowed to prostrate yourself before other gods!!”
They would have considered it idolatry right?? But if so isn’t Idolatry is the worship of idols?
They might not have said “you were worshiping other gods” but because he was prostrating is was worshiping….because that’s what you do in the presence of gods and God.
My struggle is the removal of the word worship from this context. But maybe it’s just more useful because of today’s 21st century understanding of the word worship to translate it as simply what it is which is prostrating yourself.
Are my conclusions still a little off? I just got introduced to these concepts. I also downloaded the PDF on your website. “……Greek word…does not mean worship”.
@@Hyorikatsu I find that we will be much closer to understanding these passages if we do NOT use the English word 'worship' to translate the Greek or the Hebrew words. If someone prostrates before someone or some god in a temple, it is already inherently understood that the person is showing deep respect and submission. The modern penchant to read the idea of "worship" into the act is unnecessary, often inaccurate, and it injects an interpretation that is not necessarily there.
"Idolatry" would be an obvious and observable act because the "idolater" would be either prostrating before the image/statue of an idol or offering sacrifice to it.
Love your presentation and your thesis, but you pronounce Προσκυνεω as if it was Πρwσκυνnω. thanks much.
The issue of the "correct" pronunciation of NT Greek terms has been an ongoing debate for centuries. See the excellent recent work by Benjamin Kantor, "The Pronunciation of New Testament Greek" (Wm. B. Eerdmans, 2023).
@@tomwadsworth One of the tools I have used is to have a conversation with a current greek person living in Greece, asking about meanings and pronunciations. Modern Greek is still very similar to koine, and the pronunciations are still very intact. omicron and omega are still very different sounds, as are episilon and ata.
@@jimyoungblood1687 I've been to Greece several times, and my experience (with omicron and omega) was not the same as yours. Kantor's book also says that Koine and Modern Greek pronounce omicron and omega the same way.
All that aside, we all tend to pronounce Greek the way we learned it. Right or wrong, I learned it in 1972 from J. Gresham Machen's grammar, which also pronounces omicron and omega the same way.
Ultimately, we can't allow pronunciations to divide us or to make us despise other pronunciations. (I'm not saying you're doing this.)
But Kantor's recent scholarly deep-dive into the issue is a helpful resource.
@@tomwadsworth Tom, I apologize and do not mean to bring discord. My third year greek prof who we called "Doc: was a stickler for pronunciation, and would often use humiliation to bring us in line when we strayed. So, following strict rules rather than loose rules of pronunciation was drummed into us. By the way, I loved Doc, and later in his life we were best of friends. Blessings to you.
You lost a bit of credibility when you said "Sunday/Friday Salaam" refers to prostration. It never has. Salaam is a greeting. It means peace. A muslim's Friday salaam is a holy day greeting, not a prostration.
Look it up: www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/salaam
The Old Testament was written in Hebrew Tom. The Levites would not have accepted any other togue. The septuagenarian was redacted from the new Testament period.
I am sorry, I don't see you point about prostration. In many, if not all of the cases where people fall on their faces and prostrate themselves before God, are they not worshipping God? That might not be how you or I typically 'worship', but it emphasises how meaning has been sucked out of the word. 'Worship' that is merely singing a trite ditty about how 'I' feel towards God is not true worship.
Jesus kissed Jesus on the cheek. If that's the greeting for near-equals, that seems arrogant.
A doula is supposed to be a midwife
Overkill discussion to the point of monotony and boredom. DO NOT THINK YOU WILL BE HEARD FOR YOUR MANY WORDS. Excellent research, thorough discussion, and thankfully amendable to 1.75x playback speed. Thank you.
I totally agree.😇
@@tomwadsworth I thoroughly enjoyed the video. The Greek words matter and your videos on this subject has brought so much clarity to me. Thank you so much.
57:30 Sorry, but it is literal. We are to present ourselves as a living sacrifice. I agree not a cow or sheep. Living sacrifice as in physical repentance. That is our reasonable worship. Rom 12:1
If it is literal, you would be literally dead. Your literal blood would be splattered on a literal altar. And a literal priest would be presiding over the literal burning of your literal dead body.
When Paul adds the qualifier λογικὴν, he makes clear that λατρείαν in Rom 12:1 is not to be understood literally. Thanks to the literal once-for-all sacrifice of Jesus, you can respond to his literal sacrifice with a metaphorical sacrifice of offering your life in obedience.
This is also used extensively in Hebrews, including the verse about offering a sacrifice of praise.
Another angle is that Paul is giving a subtle put-down of Gnosticism, that would look at one’s corporeal body as being unable to be holy and totally unacceptable to a REAL God of spirits (as they would view God). Gnosticism not only would deny a literal incarnation of God into a body, but indirectly denies the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the Believer.
Why teaching Jewish children to do catholic style worshi was so heinous.
Acts of the Apostles: the disciples met for communion feasts. AKA the Holy Mass. As Ireneus tells us.
Misconstruing Jew Judah when scripture says Israel which is ALL 12 tribes. All 12 tribes are not the Jews, only the tribes of Benjamin and Judah are referenced as Jews in scriptures
At 54, “things changed with Jesus.” Matthew 5:17 would bring that into question. Perhaps things changed with the destruction of the temple and the diaspora. But perhaps even more, things changed with the severe antisemitism of the Roman “church.” But Jesus prophesied that the day would come when men would think they were doing a service to God by killing true believers. The many massacres carried out against Torah observant believers in the following centuries certainly validate that prophecy. The Roman church simply replaced the heads of their gods with images said to be of the saints and apostles and put lots and lots of lipstick on their pigs. Following false beliefs places one squarely on the broad road, sad to say. You cannot be on both the narrow road and the broad road simultaneously. Most of Christendom has been on the broad road for a very long time. So long that the broad road seems like the right one for everyone.
no they never used a greek OT when they could read aramaic and hebrew
I'm not sure what you mean. It's well known that the early church widely used the Greek OT (Septuagint). Many of the OT quotations cited by NT writers are clearly from the Greek OT.
@@tomwadsworth ok so then you really need to look up what israel /yudea thought of it - talk to some jewish scholars, simply put it was hated and never used look up why and what they did with the copy of it in Yerusalem. you got to learn the differences of why greek in western countries was used whn no njewish leader anywhere ever wanted to let it be used compared to what they did in israel area also check out what they used in samaria. and jesus didint speak greek he only used aramaic and little hebrew, he may have talked alittle greek with western foreigners though. everything in the gosples has to be checked with the aramiac esp the first 3
Worship came way before Jesus Christ. And Jesus Christ even said the true worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth. Worship means getting into God's presence David knew what worship was. 73
The New Testament was written in Greek by the Apostles, and Jesus' brothers. Only the Pharisees and leaders spoke Hebrew. The whole world spoke and read Greek because God saw to it that His Word would be translated into Greek directly from the original Hebrew scrolls in Jerusalem by 70 scribes who went to Alexandria. That was in 280 B.C. 90% of the quotes in the N.T. from the O.T. match the Septuagint Old Testament and the Dead Sea Scrolls.
wrong things did not change with Yeshua
Prostrating yourself before another human is so paganistic… but before another higher “ Religious person” is pure idolatry.
Yes, it seems paganistic to us to prostrate before another human. But in the Bible, it was common to prostrate before another human. In these dozens of cases, the person is often not a pagan, and is usually prostrating before an honored human or a superior, such as a king or a prophet.
@@tomwadsworth Sorry I should have qualified it better. I meant post Jesus coming to us. And can fully understand it in Old Testament times. The kings and prophets were Gods anointed that wielded enormous power on behalf of God. But not so know.
Worship is OBEDIENCE.
One would think
Did you actually watch the video? It seems not!
The true soul of prostate is to be in union with God by way of obedience in truth through action. In simple word you're right.😊
Lee Linda Allen Helen White George