Top video Matt. Just what I was after. Quite glad I didn't fit that Mann filter now I've seen the reduced width of the filter media. And that cheese grater inner sleeve was certainly different. HiFlo for me. Kind regards, Belinda.
Holy Shit!! The amount of oil going back to the engine for the hi Flo filter is huge. I have a K n N now but next go round I'm switching. Nice video Matt🤘🏻🤘🏻
Great Video Matt. I use that K&N filters on my bikes mainly because its easy to to lock wire them. However, I have never tried to use a spanner on them as my gut told me it would twist/weaken the filter and possibly fail...seems like my concerns were valid!
These nuts even fail without ever being torqued...do a Google for K&N filter failures...loads of reports of them blowing from proper use situations....dangerous as hell and need to be pulled of market. A solution in search of a problem....
There's just something about that Hi-Flo filter that fills me with confidence, which is great as I have both Hi-Flo oil and air filters on my SV with a couple more ready for future servicing. Really interested to see the oil tests now and how the Rock Oil Guardian holds up
Great vid Matt. I can see loads of comparisons; surface area, permeability, relief pressure, seal configuration, inlet/outlet port area, spring pressure, core stiffness, longevity, pressure drop.....awesome. The hex on the head of the K&N is an interesting idea, sounds like a good idea in principle - stick a typical size socket/spanner on it and away you go, may not be so good in execution. I wonder if other 'spin on' filter manufacturers have tried this before?
Sorry to be replying yet again, but I worked for a filter company also so have seen what goes on in the filter industry, the important figures for filters are the micron filtration size and flow rate (a function of the filter mesh it's surface area (that small mann or bosch filter could be restrictive) and the number of pleats (if the pleats are too close the flow becomes restricted)), the quality of the filter components (anti-drain valve, pressure bypass valve, springs metalwork etc.) but your not going to know without cutting the filter apart and here comes the real problem, because filter production is labour intensive most are either made under contract or sourced from low-cost labour economies (ever wondered why filter cannisters are generally black, white or blue in colour --- I know some are different colours but they're usually on contract ---- even filter companies buy the filters then print their logo on them really making money from low-volume specialist filters) so it's very much Hobson's choice unless you buy a genuine part (only from the standpoint of if you make a warranty claim) with the extra costs and availability problems that can entail (manufacturers can and do change filter suppliers during model production driven by savings in unit price).
I've used Hi Flo on my MT 07 for 2 years, no problems and seems to be doing it's job excellently. I have also used a K&N on my DRZ 400E, no problems yet, but I have heard a handful of people have experienced the material fins failing for some reason
The Hiflo uses the same type seal as Suzuki and the same size filter socket. They are sealed and prelubed, a plus for those of us who don't dunk ours in the old oil! Seeing the inside I will stick with Hiflo.
Also an interesting note is that round o-ring style seal has largely been abandoned on most canister style filters because of the higher rate of failure and how the gasket to surface contact area can be compromised if the filter is over or under torqued.
Really enjoyed that. Had both the k&n and a hiflo with the bolt on top for ease of future removal the hiflo didn’t round as easy as k&n. Good idea but it well executed unfortunately. Looking forward to next vid👍🏻
My R1 came with a K&N oil filter when I bought it used. That filter was on so tight, the nut immediately stripped out. Fortunately, I found a pair of Channelock pliers that were wide enough to grip it and I twisted it and nearly tore apart before it began to loosen. The nut was completely useless. I’ll never buy a K&N oil filter after that.
Actually, I agree with some of the other lads here; the Suzuki OEM filter for comparison would be a great addition to the test. Are they really worth spending at least double on? Has anyone got one going spare? Although, even if the OEM turned out to be great, I probably still wouldn't bother, as like Matt, I too am a "HiFlo Bumboy", Trev (Belinda)
Mann-Hummel owns Bosch (oil filters), Purolator, and WIX. Bosch actually sold Purolator to Mann-Hummel to exit their 50% stake in Purolator but Bosch filters are Purolators and Purolators are Mann.
HiFlo race version (RC) is 5 micron, well priced and super strong. & not only did those k&n leak, some of were blowing up bikes across tracks in NA for awhile lol. Anything over 32nm on those 17mm nuts and the filter will leak eventually.. could be 2 days later or 2 months. HiFlo RC is the best overall filter.
Maybe worth pointing out, that the "diaphragm" element is there to prevent backflow of unfiltered oil when it's not being pumped and washing all that's been filtered back into the engine.. And I'm sure you were thinking it, but you didn't say it (for the younguns) that the bypass valve is there for if you don't replace your filter often enough and the filtration element is clogged with shite, oil can still circulate even if it's unfiltered - Unfiltered oil is better than nowt.
Otherwise known as the anti-drainback valve. It's there to prevent a filter thats mounted veritcally or on it's side draining when the engine isn't running, so that there is no delay in oil pressure on startup.
More inlet holes in the bottom of the bosh one. First impressions are: bosch - looks well designed, Mann - surprisingly let down on the design maybe? K&n - looks shit and more likely to bypass (“increased flow in-house secret design”) = shit Always used mann filters and depending on further tare-downs may change to Bosch!
I was wondering about if making the inlet holes bigger would help to raise oil pressure. Also i have an engine that is nearly in the end of it's lifespan. I imagine that since it's already worn, rigging the filter to constantly bypass would help with the worn clearances to fill with more oil.
I don't particularly like k&n but in there defense it does say wrench OFF on the box. I bet you they will say that the hex should not be used to tighten the filter. Maybe all the people having a problem with them have been doing it up using that hex and damaging it.
you should never use an filter wrench or anything other than your hand to put on / tighten a canister oil filter as it uses a low torque gasket and only requires 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn once the gasket comes into contact with the base plate.
Mann filters are the filter of choice in the motor trade generally. I reckon there must be a good reason for smaller element. Maybe it gives a bit of room for any debris to sit in the housing or something?. Be very interested to know what Manns explanation of this is.
Hey Matt, I doubt you guys have any where you're at but it would be awesome if you could test some fram filters. Some people swear by them and a lot of people are thinking they're shit. I'm leaning more towards the shit side. Great video, thanks
@@thedirtyworkshop from year dot everybody has been taught to tighten a filter by hand. 1/4 to half a turn .Going by the fact several have cracked they have either been over tightened or the weld has failed . Either way hand tightened would have avoided this . Check out this video where he said to only use it for removal th-cam.com/video/qW7K0CZvgVQ/w-d-xo.html
Interesting video. Curious to see what the effective filter area is between the HiFlo which is taller with what appears to be fewer cleats, and the others which are thinner with more cleats.
I have been a mechanic 4 / 40 years when you do an oil change and change the filter obviously that is supposed to be hand tight that's it if your week you just give it a little tweak with and oil filter wrench the O ring once heated expands locks in place that's how an oil filter works this way when you take the oil filter off you not killing yourself problem is hardly anyone knows how to properly install an oil filter!
It would be great to get some test information like pressure differential, beta rating, dirt capacity, particle separation efficiency and resistance of the filter media against chemical wear and pressure bursts. Could you also compare those against the Suzuki OEM, please?
Hi Flo make a race filter which looks really similar to the K&N with the nut. I had a leaking K&N oil filter near the o ring despite tightening etc so have been using bog standard Hi Flo ones since with no issues.
The K+N oil filter may kill you.I know about the recall some years ago but mine failed at the nut only last year and caused me a huge slide.Oil all over the rear tyre.I did not wrench it on,just hand tight.If you have one fitted you are playing Russian Roulette.I was told by a mechanic they are manufactured in China using crap metal.
It's a few years on now but I forgot to say that I contacted K+N UK after my oil filter left me stranded 100 miles from home after suffering a massive rear wheel slide due to the nut leaking oil all over the rear tyre.K+N asked me if the filter had been fitted by a 'trained technician',and I had fitted it myself just as I have been fitting oil filters to my 2 bikes for many,many years.Anyway as far as they were concerned that was the end of the matter,but they were kind enough to ask me if I needed any information about any other K+N products!
Wix and royal purple are the same filter. Another guy on this here you tube did the same thing matt. I took two oil filters to bits a genuine one and a Mann. They were exactly the same. Only difference, the Mann was a third of the price. As for me the 5 quid it cost for a filter I change it often.
I've been using K&N filters for 5-6 changes now and never had the problem - hand tighten then bosh it off with a spanner. Literally the only reason I use K&N is because I'm too lazy to find the right cup in the big fucking box of Chinese eBay special oil filter things I've got gathering dust. Interesting to see if they actually don't flow as well as the others.
Watch it...they are known to fail without ever being torqued on...weld spots make weak points on the thin metal...can't take the pressure or just too thin right from the box. Google shows many such reports! Get it off your bike if you value your life....
Thanks for this video. I bought a value pack of 10 oil filters on amazon which I thought were Hiflo HF-138. Turned out they were a Chinese knockoff. I cut one open and the filter element and all other aspects are subpar compared to the hiflo in this video. I'm just going to toss them out. I left a poor review on amazon as I felt it was a misleading seller. The oil filter brand turned out to be Raisman. I made a short video and posted on TH-cam to maybe help others from making this same mistake. . I think they would've worked fine but I'm not going to risk my 2 high dollar ATVs over a Knockoff Chinese oil filter.
I’ve never heard of HifloFiltro, not sure if they are sold in the states. I’ve used K&N products for yrs as well as Bosch, just not their filters. I only use Bosch plugs and other components. I’ve heard of Mann, used them once on a diesel, but I usually use either Donaldson or Baldwin filters on diesels. So I’m interested in your opinion on Mann filters. I know K&N is owned by Gryphon Investors. I had heard that the same company that makes Wix and Mobil 1 filters, makes K&N oil filters. Not sure if that’s true or not. If you want to see a cheap filter, look inside a Fram filter.
Something to be aware of is the micron size of the particles the filter media will remove. Cheap filters. or expensive, poorly made filters, have dreadful filtering quality, only removing the big chunks (relatively speaking), but leaving alot of very fine particles to wear out your engine. There is an American brand of filters that have a very fine filtering media, need to go find it though, can't recall off hand. Also, there are filter cutting tools that open filters like a pipe cutter. Originally designed for the aviation industry where filter inspection is a normal servicing requirement, but now used by those who have spent lots of dosh on building engines to check that nothing bad is happening, before it becomes terminal.
You were waayy off on the "see the k&n one has les perforations and therefore will bypass quicker, and the hiflo will filter for longer" short answer : NO. if you look at the k&n versus the hiflo the very first thing that should jump out at you is the filter media being very different. In short they will both filter the same amount of flow before the bypass valve activates (which should not have unless the pressure relief on the oil pump fails) as those holes inside the barrel where the bypass valve lives are the exhaust holes for the oil as it passes through the filter, and have been carefully calculated to be more than the oil needs at maximum factory oil pump pressure.
Not exceeding doesn't mean they're the same, also I was juts commenting on what I was seeing for the first time, its not gospel. This is why tests are required.
The Workshop to your engine and oil pump they are the same. But you made the same wildly incorrect assumptions many many many customers have when physically inspecting/dissecting a filter.
The K&N shouldn't leak as it should never be tightened by a spanner, only removed, oil filters self tighten once you have put them on and done them up nice and HAND TIGHT ONLY. Always make sure the seating/sealing surface isn't damaged/scored/scratched and is absolutely spotlessly clean, otherwise you are going to have a leak as oil is at high pressure in the filter (between 90 - 200 psi average depending on the application) so it needs to be double checked, always smear a nice film of new oil on the o ring/gasket before spinning it on.
From the K&N website - "K&N Wrench-Off® canister oil filters have a 17mm Hex nut to allow for easy-on and easy wrench-off" www.knfilters.co.uk/kn/sport_bikes.aspx - opppssssss!
I wouldn't listen to that, I go by what the manufacturer says, never seen one suggest using a tool to FIT one, canister type that is. Obviously a cartridge type uses a long through bolt to retain the oil filter housing to the base plate/oil filter feed block or whatever terminology you want to use. I don't see why K&N filters would be any different to an OEM one in this respect. Come on Matt, you always espouse going with the manufacturer over any other advice, don't you?? Ooooooopsie back at ya! :P
I don't know why everyone's k&n filters rust and leak, I use them every change (waste of money blah blah blah) and they look almost new before I yank it off
I had a Mann filter rep come into my college for a chat. He talked about other brands had a tendency to fail at high pressure, the paper would fall apart and or be crushed under the pressure, was he just talking shit about the competition ?
Dude, if you're twisting the hex nut on the K&N, you're putting it on WAAYYY too tight and that might be leading to the leaking. It's generally only supposed to be put on with 12 foot pounds, which is hand-tightened.
It's "Wrench Off". Not "Wrench On". I wouldn't be surprised if the failed filters were wrenched on, cracking the case. All oil filters should be hand tightened only.
I'm on a long break in South East Asia at the mo, been on Samui since the 31st of last month, this place is fucking full of all kinds of bikes, mostly Honda Click 125i, Scoopy i, Zoomer-X and those wee Grom MSX thingies, I doubt they get many filter changes here, just a top up when needed for most of them, there are a few wankers on Hardly Gravysons and Ducati Diavels, a few Blade SP's, the odd HyperRetard and other bits n bobs including various trail bikes. Anything over 400cc here is an accident waiting to happen given the size of the place, driving habits, road conditions and the fact that at least half the population (mostly tourists) after noon is pissed as a rat, my rental Click is fast enough to do over 60mph so that is more than enough here and I blend in with all the other Clicks. Back in London on the 14th of March to sell my Hornet, probably sell the Blade too, fettle and set up my CBR600RR Hannspree that was stolen last Jan 14th and I found on Scumtree last June ish, the twat that nicked it got the frame he used to ring it back so I had to reframe it after stripping it down at Wandworth nick. British justice eh? I'm talking shite here cause it's 04:45 and I can't sleep, too energetic with Ting Tong earlier, hahahah
The nut on a K&N filter, be it either the welded or the pressed type are simply nothing more than a gimmick. Do them up hand tight & then screwdriver them off,, saves all the hassles
Shaun That’s because it’s British. It comes pre filled with metal shavings from the factory in hopes of clogging up the leaking gaskets with an oily, metallic sludge.
Please have a look at project farm TH-cam channel. Regular guy in a shop who buys multiple kids of items and puts them through tests is pretty fair about unbiased. Tests aren’t perfect but good for a place to start when making decisions. He did a video on oil filters and opened my eyes.
Youre doing it wrong- Don't use the nut on the k&n to remove it, you can get a great sealey oil filter remover that'll save you loads of time and effort.
Just found this.. www.knfilters.com/mobile/recallkn204 Edit: oh, it was originally some Matthew who posted that link, which was reposted to CX builders.
K&N issued a recall for the KN-204 because of the oil leak issue - www.knfilters.com/mobile/recallkn204 - don't know if they regard the one you have as OK, but better safe than sorry imho, I won't be using them, in fact stay away from K&N.
The k&n filter literally says wrench-off on the box. You're not supposed to tighten it with a wrench, no wonder the spotwelds fail after just 1000miles or so.. How stupid can people be wtf.
Until you look at the website at the time of recording. They have now rectified this. They also recalled the old filters. I did an update to this video. So on reflection people weren't stupid. K&N were.
Really interesting seeing the different designs of filter. I don't see why they designed them with a welded nut on them to be able to tighten up a filter on like the k&n filter. Thought you only need to hand tighten up these types of filter. No wonder they leak like fuck. LOL
But's that's the stupidity of these things...the nut is supposed to only be used for removal, not installation....unlike EVERY other nut in the world which can be used both ways, this thing is special case! And, they still fail when never torqued...bad design/market gimmick putting biker lives at risk.
Like your videos, ,but this one is shit. Spring is holding baypass valve - in those filters 1 bar. Doesn't matter what kind of spring you have if it open the valve at 1 bar. Rubber on the top is return valve to not allow the oil to go back from the system to the sump. You don't want ho have for example cam chain tensioner rattling every time you starting the engine. Filtration level is the most important thing. Shitty one will allow the crap to go trough or will stop filtering and will open the baypass. Mann and Bosch one you have is quite universal filter with very wide application list in automotive. Both companies for 99% are not manufacturing those filters but are buying them from OEM manufacturer in far east. I'm using filter from one company (name sounds like is German brand :) ) I know this company is manufacturing it and testing it (in China) and achieving results as Mann. I mean filtering performance. There are few brands to consider when you need OE quality: Mahle/Knecht, Mann, UFI/Sofima, Filtron/WIX, Bosch.
Someone already beat you to the comparison of Suzuki filters. motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/FilterStudy.html They don't like any of the filters for a Suzuki and recommend that you buy this adapter so that you can fit Honda filters on your bike. balestech.com/filter.htm Is this something that you would recommend or is this just not worth the money? I was actually thinking about doing this because once I have the adapter the Honda filters are way more accessible in my area. Thanks, Andrew
So the guy says all these filters are crap. But based on what? There's a table with A,B,C ratings but how are these rated? No testing or anything? I don't get it.....
On other parts of the site he has some testing and stuff so I guess for this table he is just going off of visual inspection. There are loads of different models of filters and I don't even pretend to understand the difference between them. What would be the difference between 2 filters that have the same thread and are the same size? I know some have anti-drainback valves and some don't. I guess I should better state my question. Suzuki filters are hard to get locally compared to Honda sizes for me. Is it worth it to try and find a Honda filter that is the same or better quality and switch to that or just stick with the Hiflo filters that I order online? I understand that Suzuki has probably put a lot of time and effort into a filter that meets performance and cost goals but Hiflo is cheaper and available online. Thanks for everything, Andrew
looking through the rest of this shit, the guy with the oil filter 'designs' windshields and the site where you get the adapters from is a 2 hour drive from each other. So I thought this was a bit fishy. Lone and behold the machine shop that makes the adapters has one other product on their site is windshield clamps and that's it. Funny that???
All these filters are fine, changing them is more important than which one, I'd stay clear of the 'wrench-off' K&N simply because they had made a recall on some of them, so why take the risk.
Top video Matt. Just what I was after. Quite glad I didn't fit that Mann filter now I've seen the reduced width of the filter media. And that cheese grater inner sleeve was certainly different. HiFlo for me. Kind regards, Belinda.
Holy Shit!! The amount of oil going back to the engine for the hi Flo filter is huge. I have a K n N now but next go round I'm switching. Nice video Matt🤘🏻🤘🏻
Great Video Matt. I use that K&N filters on my bikes mainly because its easy to to lock wire them. However, I have never tried to use a spanner on them as my gut told me it would twist/weaken the filter and possibly fail...seems like my concerns were valid!
These nuts even fail without ever being torqued...do a Google for K&N filter failures...loads of reports of them blowing from proper use situations....dangerous as hell and need to be pulled of market. A solution in search of a problem....
There's just something about that Hi-Flo filter that fills me with confidence, which is great as I have both Hi-Flo oil and air filters on my SV with a couple more ready for future servicing. Really interested to see the oil tests now and how the Rock Oil Guardian holds up
Great vid Matt. I can see loads of comparisons; surface area, permeability, relief pressure, seal configuration, inlet/outlet port area, spring pressure, core stiffness, longevity, pressure drop.....awesome. The hex on the head of the K&N is an interesting idea, sounds like a good idea in principle - stick a typical size socket/spanner on it and away you go, may not be so good in execution. I wonder if other 'spin on' filter manufacturers have tried this before?
Sorry to be replying yet again, but I worked for a filter company also so have seen what goes on in the filter industry, the important figures for filters are the micron filtration size and flow rate (a function of the filter mesh it's surface area (that small mann or bosch filter could be restrictive) and the number of pleats (if the pleats are too close the flow becomes restricted)), the quality of the filter components (anti-drain valve, pressure bypass valve, springs metalwork etc.) but your not going to know without cutting the filter apart and here comes the real problem, because filter production is labour intensive most are either made under contract or sourced from low-cost labour economies (ever wondered why filter cannisters are generally black, white or blue in colour --- I know some are different colours but they're usually on contract ---- even filter companies buy the filters then print their logo on them really making money from low-volume specialist filters) so it's very much Hobson's choice unless you buy a genuine part (only from the standpoint of if you make a warranty claim) with the extra costs and availability problems that can entail (manufacturers can and do change filter suppliers during model production driven by savings in unit price).
hey matt. the silicon bits are anti drainback valves from what I understand. it keeps the oil in the filter so it doesnt empty out
I have never once what's inside an oil filter but I enjoyed this greatly
I've used Hi Flo on my MT 07 for 2 years, no problems and seems to be doing it's job excellently. I have also used a K&N on my DRZ 400E, no problems yet, but I have heard a handful of people have experienced the material fins failing for some reason
I only ever tend to buy Hiflo for some reason. Hand tight the new one on and screwdriver through the old one to get it off.
Mann filter medium is superior, it really sets them apart. That’s why in this application it is smaller...but the media is far s.
The Hiflo uses the same type seal as Suzuki and the same size filter socket. They are sealed and prelubed, a plus for those of us who don't dunk ours in the old oil! Seeing the inside I will stick with Hiflo.
Hiflo also makes a race version, with nut.
Also an interesting note is that round o-ring style seal has largely been abandoned on most canister style filters because of the higher rate of failure and how the gasket to surface contact area can be compromised if the filter is over or under torqued.
I've only used the kn-138 on my k1 sv650, and haven't had any issues.
Really enjoyed that. Had both the k&n and a hiflo with the bolt on top for ease of future removal the hiflo didn’t round as easy as k&n. Good idea but it well executed unfortunately. Looking forward to next vid👍🏻
My R1 came with a K&N oil filter when I bought it used. That filter was on so tight, the nut immediately stripped out. Fortunately, I found a pair of Channelock pliers that were wide enough to grip it and I twisted it and nearly tore apart before it began to loosen. The nut was completely useless. I’ll never buy a K&N oil filter after that.
Yeah you definitely overtightened it. I’ve been using K&N for my Daytona 2015, the nut is only used for taking it off and filter is hand tight
Actually, I agree with some of the other lads here; the Suzuki OEM filter for comparison would be a great addition to the test. Are they really worth spending at least double on? Has anyone got one going spare? Although, even if the OEM turned out to be great, I probably still wouldn't bother, as like Matt, I too am a "HiFlo Bumboy", Trev (Belinda)
Thx for a good cut open review of various filters
Mann-Hummel owns Bosch (oil filters), Purolator, and WIX.
Bosch actually sold Purolator to Mann-Hummel to exit their 50% stake in Purolator but Bosch filters are Purolators and Purolators are Mann.
HiFlo race version (RC) is 5 micron, well priced and super strong. & not only did those k&n leak, some of were blowing up bikes across tracks in NA for awhile lol. Anything over 32nm on those 17mm nuts and the filter will leak eventually.. could be 2 days later or 2 months. HiFlo RC is the best overall filter.
Maybe worth pointing out, that the "diaphragm" element is there to prevent backflow of unfiltered oil when it's not being pumped and washing all that's been filtered back into the engine..
And I'm sure you were thinking it, but you didn't say it (for the younguns) that the bypass valve is there for if you don't replace your filter often enough and the filtration element is clogged with shite, oil can still circulate even if it's unfiltered - Unfiltered oil is better than nowt.
Otherwise known as the anti-drainback valve. It's there to prevent a filter thats mounted veritcally or on it's side draining when the engine isn't running, so that there is no delay in oil pressure on startup.
K&N...I would think you would tighten by hand and use a tool to "wrench off".. OEM FTW
Interesting stuff, the Mann filter is a bit crappy compared to the others, but let's see what the test results show
More inlet holes in the bottom of the bosh one. First impressions are: bosch - looks well designed, Mann - surprisingly let down on the design maybe? K&n - looks shit and more likely to bypass (“increased flow in-house secret design”) = shit
Always used mann filters and depending on further tare-downs may change to Bosch!
Slap a shit load of copper slip over the K&N during install. Spend 6 months plastering the top with fibreglass and it won’t leak.
Love Delbollocks. X
I was wondering about if making the inlet holes bigger would help to raise oil pressure. Also i have an engine that is nearly in the end of it's lifespan. I imagine that since it's already worn, rigging the filter to constantly bypass would help with the worn clearances to fill with more oil.
I don't particularly like k&n but in there defense it does say wrench OFF on the box.
I bet you they will say that the hex should not be used to tighten the filter.
Maybe all the people having a problem with them have been doing it up using that hex and damaging it.
Dora the explorer exactly what I was going to say 👍
Check this out - www.knfilters.com/recallkn204
Ahh i see, me making assumptions without all the information 😁.
you should never use an filter wrench or anything other than your hand to put on / tighten a canister oil filter as it uses a low torque gasket and only requires 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn once the gasket comes into contact with the base plate.
Mann filters are the filter of choice in the motor trade generally. I reckon there must be a good reason for smaller element. Maybe it gives a bit of room for any debris to sit in the housing or something?. Be very interested to know what Manns explanation of this is.
Hey Matt, I doubt you guys have any where you're at but it would be awesome if you could test some fram filters. Some people swear by them and a lot of people are thinking they're shit. I'm leaning more towards the shit side. Great video, thanks
So you have a lnik?
The Workshop I'll try to find a link. Apparently the cheaper filters don't have any metal caps on the inside.
The Workshop I'm seeing them on Amazon Uk and ebay Uk, if you want a direct link I'll try to find one for a motorcycle.
The Workshop Here's a video on the filter itself:
th-cam.com/video/mFVNESOwLyk/w-d-xo.html
Ordered one
I dare say the K&N hex nut is only meant for removal. Hand tightening when fitting still applies here
It's not what the website said...
@@thedirtyworkshop from year dot everybody has been taught to tighten a filter by hand. 1/4 to half a turn .Going by the fact several have cracked they have either been over tightened or the weld has failed . Either way hand tightened would have avoided this . Check out this video where he said to only use it for removal th-cam.com/video/qW7K0CZvgVQ/w-d-xo.html
I know. I did a video about it
I have purchased a pair of identical amsoil filters but they where manufactured by different companys (Champion and Purolator)
Interesting video. Curious to see what the effective filter area is between the HiFlo which is taller with what appears to be fewer cleats, and the others which are thinner with more cleats.
I have been a mechanic 4 / 40 years when you do an oil change and change the filter obviously that is supposed to be hand tight that's it if your week you just give it a little tweak with and oil filter wrench the O ring once heated expands locks in place that's how an oil filter works this way when you take the oil filter off you not killing yourself problem is hardly anyone knows how to properly install an oil filter!
Who is the best of these filters?
Regards
It would be great to get some test information like pressure differential, beta rating, dirt capacity, particle separation efficiency and resistance of the filter media against chemical wear and pressure bursts. Could you also compare those against the Suzuki OEM, please?
Did you ever make the follow up to this one, Matt?
Hi Flo make a race filter which looks really similar to the K&N with the nut. I had a leaking K&N oil filter near the o ring despite tightening etc so have been using bog standard Hi Flo ones since with no issues.
8:54, anti drain back seal.
LOL I think you mean jonny seal LOL
Yeah that one.
What are Bosch expecting you to mix with your oil for the filter to have the feature you mention at 13:12 ?
The K+N oil filter may kill you.I know about the recall some years ago but mine failed at the nut only last year and caused me a huge slide.Oil all over the rear tyre.I did not wrench it on,just hand tight.If you have one fitted you are playing Russian Roulette.I was told by a mechanic they are manufactured in China using crap metal.
It's a few years on now but I forgot to say that I contacted K+N UK after my oil filter left me stranded 100 miles from home after suffering a massive rear wheel slide due to the nut leaking oil all over the rear tyre.K+N asked me if the filter had been fitted by a 'trained technician',and I had fitted it myself just as I have been fitting oil filters to my 2 bikes for many,many years.Anyway as far as they were concerned that was the end of the matter,but they were kind enough to ask me if I needed any information about any other K+N products!
Wix and royal purple are the same filter. Another guy on this here you tube did the same thing matt. I took two oil filters to bits a genuine one and a Mann. They were exactly the same. Only difference, the Mann was a third of the price. As for me the 5 quid it cost for a filter I change it often.
I've been using K&N filters for 5-6 changes now and never had the problem - hand tighten then bosh it off with a spanner. Literally the only reason I use K&N is because I'm too lazy to find the right cup in the big fucking box of Chinese eBay special oil filter things I've got gathering dust.
Interesting to see if they actually don't flow as well as the others.
Watch it...they are known to fail without ever being torqued on...weld spots make weak points on the thin metal...can't take the pressure or just too thin right from the box. Google shows many such reports! Get it off your bike if you value your life....
Thanks for this video. I bought a value pack of 10 oil filters on amazon which I thought were Hiflo HF-138. Turned out they were a Chinese knockoff. I cut one open and the filter element and all other aspects are subpar compared to the hiflo in this video. I'm just going to toss them out. I left a poor review on amazon as I felt it was a misleading seller. The oil filter brand turned out to be Raisman. I made a short video and posted on TH-cam to maybe help others from making this same mistake. . I think they would've worked fine but I'm not going to risk my 2 high dollar ATVs over a Knockoff Chinese oil filter.
K&N filters are made by HiFlo... Hence the same number (138)
k and n overpriced. Just go hiflo. You wont GO wrong!
so then why TF do people hate k&n but love hiflow
@@LITTLEBRAT775081 they hate throwing away that extra dough.
@@caroltenge5147 ty , I ask because I got berated when I went into a more shop trying to buy k&n
@@LITTLEBRAT775081 Joe, another great filter is the VOLAR. Inexpensive but super quality without a big price stuck on! Check them out.
I’ve never heard of HifloFiltro, not sure if they are sold in the states. I’ve used K&N products for yrs as well as Bosch, just not their filters. I only use Bosch plugs and other components. I’ve heard of Mann, used them once on a diesel, but I usually use either Donaldson or Baldwin filters on diesels. So I’m interested in your opinion on Mann filters. I know K&N is owned by Gryphon Investors. I had heard that the same company that makes Wix and Mobil 1 filters, makes K&N oil filters. Not sure if that’s true or not. If you want to see a cheap filter, look inside a Fram filter.
Something to be aware of is the micron size of the particles the filter media will remove. Cheap filters. or expensive, poorly made filters, have dreadful filtering quality, only removing the big chunks (relatively speaking), but leaving alot of very fine particles to wear out your engine. There is an American brand of filters that have a very fine filtering media, need to go find it though, can't recall off hand. Also, there are filter cutting tools that open filters like a pipe cutter. Originally designed for the aviation industry where filter inspection is a normal servicing requirement, but now used by those who have spent lots of dosh on building engines to check that nothing bad is happening, before it becomes terminal.
What size are we talking here?
Adjustable from small automotive and motorcyle to full on truck and aviation recip engines. Look under oil filter cutters on ebay.
You were waayy off on the "see the k&n one has les perforations and therefore will bypass quicker, and the hiflo will filter for longer" short answer : NO. if you look at the k&n versus the hiflo the very first thing that should jump out at you is the filter media being very different. In short they will both filter the same amount of flow before the bypass valve activates (which should not have unless the pressure relief on the oil pump fails) as those holes inside the barrel where the bypass valve lives are the exhaust holes for the oil as it passes through the filter, and have been carefully calculated to be more than the oil needs at maximum factory oil pump pressure.
Not exceeding doesn't mean they're the same, also I was juts commenting on what I was seeing for the first time, its not gospel. This is why tests are required.
The Workshop to your engine and oil pump they are the same. But you made the same wildly incorrect assumptions many many many customers have when physically inspecting/dissecting a filter.
HiFlo is a best kept secret. They're economical, and they're top quality. And...... They WORK!
The hex is for taking the filter off only. It even says it on the box. Fuck I thought everyone knew they were supposed to be hand tightened
The K&N shouldn't leak as it should never be tightened by a spanner, only removed, oil filters self tighten once you have put them on and done them up nice and HAND TIGHT ONLY. Always make sure the seating/sealing surface isn't damaged/scored/scratched and is absolutely spotlessly clean, otherwise you are going to have a leak as oil is at high pressure in the filter (between 90 - 200 psi average depending on the application) so it needs to be double checked, always smear a nice film of new oil on the o ring/gasket before spinning it on.
From the K&N website -
"K&N Wrench-Off® canister oil filters have a 17mm Hex nut to allow for easy-on and easy wrench-off"
www.knfilters.co.uk/kn/sport_bikes.aspx
- opppssssss!
I wouldn't listen to that, I go by what the manufacturer says, never seen one suggest using a tool to FIT one, canister type that is. Obviously a cartridge type uses a long through bolt to retain the oil filter housing to the base plate/oil filter feed block or whatever terminology you want to use. I don't see why K&N filters would be any different to an OEM one in this respect.
Come on Matt, you always espouse going with the manufacturer over any other advice, don't you??
Ooooooopsie back at ya! :P
I don't know why everyone's k&n filters rust and leak, I use them every change (waste of money blah blah blah) and they look almost new before I yank it off
The K&N filters had a recall I had to send one back 2 months ago
I had a Mann filter rep come into my college for a chat. He talked about other brands had a tendency to fail at high pressure, the paper would fall apart and or be crushed under the pressure, was he just talking shit about the competition ?
Some Fram filters have paper ends in the filter but the jury is still out on this - I'll have to test it out
Dude, if you're twisting the hex nut on the K&N, you're putting it on WAAYYY too tight and that might be leading to the leaking. It's generally only supposed to be put on with 12 foot pounds, which is hand-tightened.
"Dude, if you're twisting the hex nut on the K&N, you're putting it on WAAYYY too tight"
- they're hollow....
@@thedirtyworkshop I know that, doesn't matter, they're still far more structurally sound enough to put the recommended 12 ft lbs
If you damage the nut on a kn filter you have over tightened it
Well people have been report them failure without touching them, and k&N did recall them, so.............
Matt, more prodigy intros pls!
Have you ever tried to apply for McLaren Applied Technologies? Not the car side but the engineering side. It seems like your cup of tea.
It's "Wrench Off". Not "Wrench On". I wouldn't be surprised if the failed filters were wrenched on, cracking the case. All oil filters should be hand tightened only.
Tell k&n that. The box used to say on and off...
Watch this...
th-cam.com/video/H_h1FHcg6WQ/w-d-xo.html
Try get hold of WIX filter for testing thanks
Man's got a "Manly" spring
I'm on a long break in South East Asia at the mo, been on Samui since the 31st of last month, this place is fucking full of all kinds of bikes, mostly Honda Click 125i, Scoopy i, Zoomer-X and those wee Grom MSX thingies, I doubt they get many filter changes here, just a top up when needed for most of them, there are a few wankers on Hardly Gravysons and Ducati Diavels, a few Blade SP's, the odd HyperRetard and other bits n bobs including various trail bikes. Anything over 400cc here is an accident waiting to happen given the size of the place, driving habits, road conditions and the fact that at least half the population (mostly tourists) after noon is pissed as a rat, my rental Click is fast enough to do over 60mph so that is more than enough here and I blend in with all the other Clicks.
Back in London on the 14th of March to sell my Hornet, probably sell the Blade too, fettle and set up my CBR600RR Hannspree that was stolen last Jan 14th and I found on Scumtree last June ish, the twat that nicked it got the frame he used to ring it back so I had to reframe it after stripping it down at Wandworth nick. British justice eh? I'm talking shite here cause it's 04:45 and I can't sleep, too energetic with Ting Tong earlier, hahahah
The nut on a K&N filter, be it either the welded or the pressed type are simply nothing more than a gimmick.
Do them up hand tight & then screwdriver them off,, saves all the hassles
A magnet also helps
Helps what?
It will collect the metal out of the oil
Metal, you mean steel, nickel or cobalt. Most of the bits are ally flashing or bearing material which isn't magnetic - FAIL LOL
The Workshop well , the sump of a jag there are to magnets spotted to collect the crap
Ahh yesssss. ?
Shaun That’s because it’s British. It comes pre filled with metal shavings from the factory in hopes of clogging up the leaking gaskets with an oily, metallic sludge.
Love the House music!
The K&N box clearly says, "wrench off" not wrench on. Good video.
Then read the rest of the box and the website
@@thedirtyworkshop I saw the next video you did after writing that. Lol. I think it's a great idea for off but wouldn't use it to put it on.
Count the number of paper folds, and examine the quality of paper by how much light will go through it, kind of a cheap way of poroscope...
Please have a look at project farm TH-cam channel. Regular guy in a shop who buys multiple kids of items and puts them through tests is pretty fair about unbiased. Tests aren’t perfect but good for a place to start when making decisions. He did a video on oil filters and opened my eyes.
Already have
And done videos on some of his
Super slippery stuff😂😉
Mann make filters for the Bosch label. My choice is Hengst filters.
Youre doing it wrong- Don't use the nut on the k&n to remove it, you can get a great sealey oil filter remover that'll save you loads of time and effort.
Hiflo Filtro FTW !
if those k&n filters were after 1000 miles then i will eat a shitey bairns nappie
Just found this.. www.knfilters.com/mobile/recallkn204
Edit: oh, it was originally some Matthew who posted that link, which was reposted to CX builders.
Did you just watch Steven Cox's oil filter video? :)
who's what?
th-cam.com/channels/ECYrpFScpIfF7UYgLCPZQw.html
Lolz it makes sense these are for bikes I didn’t know girls made car filters
I have had a K&N blow a hole in the spot weld after 6 months of being used. Won’t buy them again. I ride GSXR 1000k8
Did you tighten it with a wrench?
a9653192 no wrench needed to tighten it. Good hand grip has always stood me well enough
JP Goodbody then that’s weird you had a blow out. I’ve been using it for my triumph Daytona for 5 years without issues
K&N issued a recall for the KN-204 because of the oil leak issue - www.knfilters.com/mobile/recallkn204 - don't know if they regard the one you have as OK, but better safe than sorry imho, I won't be using them, in fact stay away from K&N.
The k&n filter literally says wrench-off on the box. You're not supposed to tighten it with a wrench, no wonder the spotwelds fail after just 1000miles or so.. How stupid can people be wtf.
Until you look at the website at the time of recording. They have now rectified this. They also recalled the old filters. I did an update to this video.
So on reflection people weren't stupid. K&N were.
Really interesting seeing the different designs of filter. I don't see why they designed them with a welded nut on them to be able to tighten up a filter on like the k&n filter. Thought you only need to hand tighten up these types of filter. No wonder they leak like fuck. LOL
But's that's the stupidity of these things...the nut is supposed to only be used for removal, not installation....unlike EVERY other nut in the world which can be used both ways, this thing is special case! And, they still fail when never torqued...bad design/market gimmick putting biker lives at risk.
Love K&N filter is garbage! 500 miles in I started to drip and not in that good way
The nut on those K&N filters round off every time. Total crap feature.
Like your videos, ,but this one is shit. Spring is holding baypass valve - in those filters 1 bar. Doesn't matter what kind of spring you have if it open the valve at 1 bar. Rubber on the top is return valve to not allow the oil to go back from the system to the sump. You don't want ho have for example cam chain tensioner rattling every time you starting the engine. Filtration level is the most important thing. Shitty one will allow the crap to go trough or will stop filtering and will open the baypass. Mann and Bosch one you have is quite universal filter with very wide application list in automotive. Both companies for 99% are not manufacturing those filters but are buying them from OEM manufacturer in far east. I'm using filter from one company (name sounds like is German brand :) ) I know this company is manufacturing it and testing it (in China) and achieving results as Mann. I mean filtering performance. There are few brands to consider when you need OE quality: Mahle/Knecht, Mann, UFI/Sofima, Filtron/WIX, Bosch.
My daddy don't love me either
I pull. The guts out of my filter and put a sock in there.i us the other sock for the air filter.
Thought I was going to be first , so sad
Bosch filter for me
Came across this classic the other day
th-cam.com/video/6BVnEBif7Xk/w-d-xo.html
Never change your oil ever again using shite paper
Already done that video dude
Ill search for it now , cheers
Someone already beat you to the comparison of Suzuki filters. motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/FilterStudy.html
They don't like any of the filters for a Suzuki and recommend that you buy this adapter so that you can fit Honda filters on your bike. balestech.com/filter.htm
Is this something that you would recommend or is this just not worth the money? I was actually thinking about doing this because once I have the adapter the Honda filters are way more accessible in my area.
Thanks,
Andrew
So the guy says all these filters are crap. But based on what? There's a table with A,B,C ratings but how are these rated? No testing or anything? I don't get it.....
On other parts of the site he has some testing and stuff so I guess for this table he is just going off of visual inspection.
There are loads of different models of filters and I don't even pretend to understand the difference between them. What would be the difference between 2 filters that have the same thread and are the same size? I know some have anti-drainback valves and some don't. I guess I should better state my question.
Suzuki filters are hard to get locally compared to Honda sizes for me. Is it worth it to try and find a Honda filter that is the same or better quality and switch to that or just stick with the Hiflo filters that I order online? I understand that Suzuki has probably put a lot of time and effort into a filter that meets performance and cost goals but Hiflo is cheaper and available online.
Thanks for everything,
Andrew
looking through the rest of this shit, the guy with the oil filter 'designs' windshields and the site where you get the adapters from is a 2 hour drive from each other. So I thought this was a bit fishy. Lone and behold the machine shop that makes the adapters has one other product on their site is windshield clamps and that's it. Funny that???
All these filters are fine, changing them is more important than which one, I'd stay clear of the 'wrench-off' K&N simply because they had made a recall on some of them, so why take the risk.
Yeah they are probably friends.
Never buy a suzuki oil filter there just shit high flow all the way
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What the fuck