If your oil filter is vertically or horizontally mounted, here's a pro tip to prime the filter before starting the engine. th-cam.com/users/shortsZF-SPAKtzrY?feature=share
@themotoroilgeek I've been a auto technician for years and I had a old timer. Tell me that didn't have to fill the oil filter if you did the oil change and no oil in filter. To start the engine and then turn it off and repeat atleast three times. To prime the oil in the system and through filter. I was never sold on not filling the oil filter so, I fill the filter still and then start and then turn engine off atleast three times. I would like to know your thoughts about this. After a oil change and oil in the filter should you start and immediately turn engine off multiple times before running the engine longer to prime the oil in the engine?
@@DK-Nachowifiturning it off and on does nothing because the oil pump doesn’t run with the vehicle off. But prefilling the filter just insures the system will prime faster, maybe takes a second to two at most. Prefilling the filter is good and can only help. If you can’t cause it’s a horizontal mount then oh well it is what it is.
I know for a fact that pre-filling the filter prevents that little slowdown from a fresh oil change from bearings dragging or lifter delayed pump up. I don't know what was causing the engine to have a sort of load on it on the start up but prefilling the filter prevented that. Keep in mind that that I have several V8's with high mileage that did that. The cars I have always owned and have prefilled are a '76 Dodge B200 360C.I., a'79 Camaro 5L, an '88 Ford 5L and a '98 Ford 4.6L. Lets just say all my engines don't burn oil happily without additives well over 100K miles. I only had to hear that lag once for myself to be convinced. I should point out that I was a professionally trained mechanic back in 1989 where my journeyman taught me to always pre-fill the filter.
I'm 70 and have been prefilling filters since I was 18, on a tip from a friend. This the first time I've ever heard it questioned. It blows my mind that people think new oil out of the container is contaminated!
I've been a heavy truck and equipment mechanic for 35 years. Today I serviced a Western Star that holds 11 gallons of engine oil. The two oil filters together held 1 1/2 gallons. I can't even imagine not pre-filling them.
As a lifetime pro mechanic and hi-performance geek, I just want to thank you both for going the extra mile to disprove some of the incredibly stupid stuff floating around the internet....you have my deepest respect!
I have always prefilled the filter because in high school, I took auto tech, and we had a valvoline sponsored video instruction on changing the oil. They suggested to prifill the oil filter to reduce the time the engine runs without oil pressure. So I guess thanks valvoline for teaching me right.
thats just silly. the time it takes to pressurize is the smallest fraction of a second.... and even while you have moving parts in that small time period they are already covered in engine oil from surface tension...
But if the oilfilter is installed dry it may absorb better the first dirtiest drops of old residual engine oil which did not come out with the drained oil compared to prefillied oilfilter?
@@amishdinkledork Nonsense, an average size filter will take 3-5 seconds to fill, sit in the car and watch the oil light or pressure gauge after a dry filter change. I look after several 3.2l Shogun/Pajeros which have a large filter which contains close to a litre of oil and take about 10 seconds to put the light out if not prefilled. In 10 seconds at 1000rpm, the engine will turn over 166 revolutions with no oil circulation.
In the 1970s my Grandfather taught me to always fill the oil filter first, and lubricate the seal, always wipe the mating surface clean as well ! Been doing it that way ever since ! It just makes sense. Never had a lubrication problem with an engine ! My 97 Silverado is over 307 thousand miles still working great 👍
i've built 180-cubic-inch V6 motors that have made 275bhp- with a slightly massaged holley model 4412 2-barrel carb- and all motor. lets see mr. goodwrench do THAT.
65 years old and changing oil for about 55 years with my dad. We have pre-filled since the first one. Proud to say I’ve paid for only 2 oil changes in my life. I look after the family’s cars.
Same here. Have always done free maintenance on my CLOSE relatives cars (grandmother, rest her soul, my mom, my brother, mine, and my sister when she lived at home when we were all teens. Also the ex and ex-mother in law). I like to get to pick out the oil, though, (either Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 OR Rotella T6 5W-40, depending on the engine) and always, always tell them to use an AC Delco filter for GM and Motorcraft for Ford. That's just how it's done. I have a 5.0 (the old school one), so I use the giant FL-1A. Mom's 4.6 3v and bro's 4.6 2v and 4v S/C gets the FL-820S. Silicon anti-drainback valve. And then there's a 3800II in the family in a Park Avenue, it gets the AC Delco PF-47... or the PF-47e when there's no PF-47's in sight. I think that's the right one. Haven't seen the plain PF-47 in a long time, really. I just know in my gut that "e" on the PF-47e is for "economy", meaning, economical parts inside of the filter lol.. aka, cheap.
@@JustAGuy85 I use Ford filters on GM too. Heck, I even use them on my lawn tractor and generator. They're just better than AC. Wix are the best, though. Purolator make the Ford filters and are a close second.
Great video. When I was a kid my friend’s dad was a petrochemical engineer and told us to always pre-fill filters when doing an oil/filter change. My auto shop teacher in high school said the same thing and I’ve been pre-filling filters every-time for the last 46 years with no problems.
@@themotoroilgeekI’m a 57 year old farmer who’s changed filters on a lot of tractors and combines over the years and I’ve never filled oil filters 🤷♂️
@@waveriderz2687if you pour the oil in the oil filter and let it sit upward for a while before installing it it will soak into the filter media just don't overfill it.
Never prefilled filter, never had some peculiar bearing wear. Actualy, now i am overhaling engine that ran 432000 km under heavy conditions, and bearings looked so good, that i was even considering reusing them.
Lookat it from this perspective. Nothing is ever a problem, until it's a problem. You can beat the odds time after time, but that one time when you don't, in retrospect, you will be wishing that you had. To take that chance is absolutely ignorant when the preventative measures are completly free, and so incredibly simple and easy. But hey, If you like gambling, then continue on as you were. But just remember...... the house always wins!! 😉
Amen!!! I work for a Fleet and have done this for well over 35 years. I can see and hear the difference upon start-up after the oil and filter change. You can see how long it takes for the oil pressure light to go out while cranking and at initial start-up. You can also hear any low oil pressure related knocks that exist in that engine until the oil pressure light goes out, and you can hear the sudden disappearance of that noise when it does go out. The only reasons people have to justify not doing the pre-filling of the oil filter method are: The textbooks do not mention doing it. The owner's manuals do not mention it. Finally, some oil filters are mounted at an extreme angle or even upside down which prevent a total fill of the filter without spilling oil during installation. In the last case mentioned, it still helps to add oil slowly to the filter while tilting it and rotating it around to at least saturate the media. Then install it. The majority of the time it takes to reach oil pressure while cranking and at initial start-up is because the media is still absorbing oil before it can let oil pass through. I know, I know, some will say "who has time for that?" I do. Especially for my own vehicle. I still do it for the Fleet vehicles I work on because I care. I know it helps longevity and I want to do the best job I can to ensure that. If you don't, even on your own car, you are plain and simple just being lazy. Before you saw this video or read this comment you could claim ignorance, but not anymore.
There's some crazy Russian mechanics on TH-cam who do weird things with cars & engines. They once modified an oil filter by grafting a clear body onto a filter base plate. It took a surprisingly long time to fill the dry oil filter. They didn't time it, but I'd say it was almost 5sec from when first started.
Makes sense. My '11 Tacoma 4 .0 l v6 filter is a spin on upside down. From now on , I don't care if it gets sloppy, I will at least try to saturate the media with fresh oil. Thanks!
I bought new a 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser with the 4.0 V6. The spin on oil filter is near the top of the engine, upside down. Many many oil changes and never, ever heard a knock or tick after changing the oil. Oil light went out almost instantly
I will applaud your patience. If someone told me that pre filling the filter with new oil would damage an engine because it hasn't been filtered, there's no way I could be polite. The amount of stupidity in that theory would normally shock me not considering some of the other things going around in not surprised. Nice job on the video
The reasoning isn't that the oil is dirty in the bottle, the reasoning is that most people aren't in a lab or marble floored shop, thus there's potential for a chunk of dirt from your hands or a piece of foil seal to go into the center of the filter and clog an oil galley on start up. I'm a diesel tech and a lot of the filters say on the side not to pre-fill. Caterpillar in particular always has a little oil can filling the filter with a big cross out over it.
@@tomscrossthreadgarage4183 I'm going to assume that people that know More than me we're in charge of that because obviously the engines last a long time. I'm still stuck on what I assumed was a fact that the longer an engine runs without oil pressure the more where it will incur. Almost all production engines generally are fine on an oil change of screwing a dry filter up there. The ones with a really big oil filters I would assume take a little longer to fill unless they have that high of a volume of oil pump. Does caterpillar give their reason for not prefilling it?
Caterpillar at one point was the world leader( and may still be)in off and on highway diesel engines and it was always the engineers recommendation to not pre fill oil filters because they did not want unfiltered oil going thru the engine..that recommendation was probably not based on stupidity..... unless major engine work has been done...no shop is pre filling oil filters... millions of filters are being installed dry yet there aren't millions of vehicles with engine failures on the side of the road..
This 70 year old always prefills his oil filter and I also concur on being careful not to get any pieces of the seal from the oil jug into the oil. Changing your own oil and filter is also a great time to inspect the engine area and under carriage for any leaks or damage underneath.
I think the guys who post comments like that are truly just looking for attention.....There, there my uninformed friend, why bother with a prefill??? Or for that matter why bother changing your oil at all??? It's just a big scam to make the oil companies richer....Ha ha
I've never pre-filled the oil filter. Tbh, I didn't even know there was a pre-fill or not battle. However, I can't believe people would argue against filling the filter because the new oil was "dirty." That argument doesn't make any sense.
the only thing that was proven is the fact that pre-filling the oil filter makes pressure more quickly upon startup. if it makes you feel better- good for you.
When I was a young man in my 20’s My grandfather always said preload your oil filter my Dad told me this too… And they both always gave me great advice… thanks for confirming that for me… Now I’ve no doubt I’ve been doing it right for years…..
My father taught me to pre-fill the filter when I was a kid and I've always done so. It always seemed common sense to me that you will build oil pressure faster by pre-filling. You can actually HEAR the difference in the initial engine startup with many engines. You generally hear a tiny bit of engine clatter before pressure builds, and starting an engine with an empty filter makes noise for at least a couple seconds longer.
Clear flood mode is easier, and better. When you remove the filter, you let more oil out than just what is in the filter. What are you going to do about that? Clear flood mode primes the entire system without the stress of combustion.
Great Video. I have always prefilled my new Oil filters with new oil out of the container. I wanted there to be enough Oil on start up so it did not take so much time to build up oil pressure. Thank You for confirming what I knew was the truth!
in the early 80's Bosch sent a Service Bulletin advising techs to pre-fill filters. The reason given was that the wet filter media was stronger and less likely to have elements break away during initial cold start.
that was before designed obsolescence. Now they do all kinds of things to accelerate wear like giving bad break in advice and long oil change intervals. I knew an engineer for aircraft told me we have the tech to make engines last millions of miles but choose to not use it for that. Brakes too!
Yes, the filter media can experience a great shock from the incoming oil pressure wave while being unsupported on the filtered side by an equilibrium of pressure. Another great reason to pre-fill the media.
Hmmm on my 3.7 mustang if I were to pre fill the oil filter and install it since its installed sideways then oil will come out while installing...I don't like dry installing the filter so what I started doing is filling the filter and then letting all the oil drain out of the filter...good to know about shock of oil pressure on dry filter media...I suppose my method of filling the oil filter and then draining and installing to saturate the filter media reduces this issue at the least on horizontally mounted oil filters
I enjoyed this video. I was also told not to prefill my oil filters from the drum/ 5 gallon bucket. I said that was wrong, why would packaged oil be more contaminated than what's in the engine. The biggest reason, though, is that my trucks are diesel and have extremely large filters. The time it takes to fill an empty filter with oil can do significant damage to the engine. My large trucks use two filters that hold almost 2 gallons of oil...long enough to possibly seize the engine while filling. The filters even state damage can occur if they are not prefilled! The only other issue I have found is previous services or owners did prefill the filters as instructed, but then proceeded to fill the truck with the manual listed oil capacity which overfilled them by 2 gallons, also not good.
As a retired ASE Master Heavy Truck Technician, I can vouch for everything you put forth in this video. I started out in 1969 as a mechanic apprentice in a small speed shop. When we built and engine, we assembled it using Lubriplate. Put it on a run-in stand and flushed out the lubricating system before installing it in a car. As I got older, I switched over to heavy trucks where I spent 49 years. During that time, if it were at all possible, we would fill the oil filter.
Lubriplate used to be some of the best oil you could buy, very high zinc levels. I used it for decades . When taking off valve covers to replace the gaskets that were starting to leak, I noticed that the valvetrain and even the inside of the covers were absolutely clean, no sludge of any kind. And that was after 100,000 mi on the engine. Now the epa has forced lubriplate to reduce the amount of zinc so I have quit using it.
I relate to this video! In High School 1971-72 two-hour per day 5 days a week auto mechanics in OKC we were taught by Mr. Parsons with NO if-ands-or-butts to ALWAYS fill the filter before installing it. 50+ years later I have done that 100% of the time aside from a few vehicles that had a sideways filter. Building VERY fast street racers at that time is a distant "fond" memory doing all night engine swaps with my hot rod buds and experimenting with carb jets, distributor springs, timing w/ vacuum gage and different rear gears (ALL Mechanical Mods!) are some of my favorite memories of my rebellious youth :)! Those were good times that unfortunately will never be available to any generation again!
Kids still work on their own cars and mod them, don't get it twisted. Down pipes, bigger turbos, bigger intercoolers, suspension, intakes, exhaust are all common mods today kids do in their own driveways. Some even swap out cam shafts. Entire engine swaps with LS motors are super common as well.
Same time frame and maybe the same friends, haha. Many of us went on to have our own engine shops, fab shops, machine shops, body shops. Lots of 1/4 milers and asphalt circle tracks around the Pacific Northwest. 70’s & 80’s were Party Central and the most fun you could have with your pants on (most of the time)
As a millwright I worked on many large industrial engines for 50 years and most of them had a pre lube pump on them so that should tell anyone how important lube is at start up. They also had post lube pumps on the turbos that were spinning at 30,000 RPM at shutdown.
Thanks Joe. Working with large diesel / natural gas prime movers for 33 years oil analysis was routine and required by the insurance underwriters. Take care.@@joesutherland225
...VW has auxillary waterpumps that circulate water through the turbo for 2 or 3 minutes AFTER shutdown. It keeps the oil from carmelizing inside the turbo. Thus prolonging the life of the turbo. It is why truckers don't shut off their engines immediately after driving. So when you see a semi-truck setting there idling for a time while parked , you'll understand why.......
I believe all engines should have an electric auxiliary pump for the oil however if you prefill or not a car without that will not have good pressure for the first five or so seconds prefill or no so I see no reason to refill unless you add that pump. Side note I have added that pump to my classic cars, it is not hard to do and you can tell the different every time you start the cars
Another thing is that massive equipment like Caterpiller and Komatsu that are for quarry use have engines worth stupid amounts of money. Those machines have a prelube system to build oil pressure before every start to maximize engine life.
Accumulator systems for this are pretty reasonable priced. Plumb into the gauge hole. Road race cars use similar to prevent starvation during cornering.
having worked in a hospital, now retired, the "CAT " diesel engines running generators would crank the engine with cylinder unloaders open until oil pressure was established, closing the cylinder unloaders/ shutting off starter motor(s), and letting the engine start/ run, first at at an idle then ramp up to operating R.P.M.( 1800), allowing the transfer switches to operate. we tested generators every two weeks. the engines also have coolant block heaters to keep the engines as close to operating temperature as possible. the oil cap. on these engines are 60 gallons
@@miltonwells6750Not good enough. The engine starter spins engine a few revolutions also before it starts chugging. Don't be lazy!! Just prefill filter
My mom went to High School (WA State) with a fairly famous Top Fuel Racer/Engine Builder Herm Petersen. She took me to his house/shop in Poulsbo, WA when I was in High School. I was always interested in cars/engines and during our long conversations as he was building a motor he mentioned about alway filling the Oil filter. Said it was a was to reduce wear on the motor for free and it was stupid not to do it. Said you could usually get almost 1/2 qt in even a sideways mounted filter if you waited for the paper element to soak up the oil after you poured it in there. I've been doing it ever since my first car and recommended it to all others. Great Video Lake
Great video! I have been pre-filling since I started doing my own oil changes 7-8 years ago. I’ve never heard that it was a bad idea. Common sense would dictate that it is a good idea. You proved it.
Brand new oil in a brand new oil filter somehow not being filtered has to be one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. Exhaust bearing, blinker fluid, winter and summer air for your tires okay I can see where you made a mistake 😂 but this makes me think that some people wake up and stop using their brains.
I spent 50 yrs in the business, Building Engines from small gas to Heavy Duty Diesel, This is a habit I practiced through my career, Filled Filter is the Best way, Excellent Best Practice !
Im glad to see this. We had a pneumatic pump from my service truck went bad and I never suspected it. The pump was injecting particles, thats when I learned that the pumps on the barrels have a rather short service life! Good Job lake!
Even though, as a seasoned mechanic I already knew the outcome before I watched the video. It was still a very good and informative study. Although, the fact that ANYONE would think prefilling oil filters is bad amazes me!!😅
@@GeorgeSanford-pb1yj Very true. I used to not believe pre-filling could damage my engine. I was cocky, so I did an experiment. I did an oil change and deliberately picked a tiny spec of dirt off the ground, about the size of a flake of black pepper, and put it in the filter while I pre-filled it. Then when done, I started the engine, and sure enough, after 10 seconds, the engine exploded. I studied all the parts and every bearing in the engine was completley wiped out. Now when I change oil, I do it as if I was working on the space shuttle.....clean room, complete body suit with respirator face mask. And no more pre-filling!
Been changing my own oil for 20 years. Always filled the filter before install. Never was told to do so, never heard to to do it, I just did it. Glad I have.
I'm 56 and been doing it for 39 years ...Do you know why you and I have been doing this for so long and were never told to do it? Cause we are not dumb. So to all you young dumb people out there that think your reinventing the mouse trap, If it comes off the motor with oil in it, don't you think you should put the new filter back on the same way you took it off? And for all you that think the new oil is dirty till it goes through a new filter,....You are just a special kind of stupid, aren't you. My God ! young people are Dumb ! As the saying goes, "Youth is wasted on the young"
@@christians131 actually you can just crank the engine over with ignition coil fuse out crank until red oil light goes out and good to go .but flipping the car over works too lol
I am a master technician, I've been around engines for the past 50 years and I agree FULLY with the practice of pre-filling a new oil filter prior to installing it. Best practice. Where possible (as on your SB Chevy V8). If it's a factory upside down cartridge or sideways mount, you're just out of luck. But looking back at all the engines I have serviced, repaired and diagnosed, there has not been ONE major engine (bearing) failure due to doing scheduled maintenance without pre-filling the filter. It's just moot. The small wear on the babbit of the bearing surfaces during the initial start has no siginificance on the engine lifespan. When all is said and done, major engine failures are caused by overheating, unfrequent oil changes and mechanical failures caused by incorrect fuel / air ratios and other problems causing an upset in normal engine operation outside of manufacturer's specs. This goes for your normal car or light truck engine. Race engines operate at much more demanding specs and other, stricter rules apply. Again, I fully agree with your video content, but the relevance in view of the actual engine life span is not given.
@@heightsgolan8742 It is moot as far as the overall longevity of the engine is concerned - this is from half a century of experience in engine service. But if it eases your mind, you can pre-fill your filter to your heart's content.
@@gonefilming2020 eases my mind?? You just admitted " the small amount of wear in start up". So maybe ease your own mind since no oil pressure for several seconds is a moot point and rev the snot out of it before oil pressure. My first rebuild was in 1969 on a car. But many small engines and one motorcycle starting in 1965. So, I have seen much in my OVER 50 years of EXPERIENCE. So many main bearing knocks and rod knocks. Too many to count. So it DOES EASE my mind to see oil pressure right away. I guess you get a thrill out of seeing that red light in the dash stay on as long as possible. Oh yeah, lets purposefully let that 2 qt filter on my diesel slowly fill while the crank is without oil. It don't matter.
@@heightsgolan8742 Woah, dude. You off your thyroid medication? Of course you also have OVER 50 YEARS EXPERIENCE. And of course your experiences are sliced bread as opposed to mine. Nowhere did I say to "...rev the snot out of it before oil pressure" or that I "get a thrill out of seeing that red light in the dash stay on as long as possible". You did not get the intent of my post. Perhaps read things so many times over, until you can follow the content. Or have someone explain it to you. And it's perfectly o.k. to have a different opinion - no need to discredit others, because only your opinion counts. Perhaps find someone to give you a hug. Everything will be o.k.. Promised. 🤗
Thank you. I very recently got a new GX550, after watching your videos, I instantly change the oil at 1600 miles. I am sure you have increased the engine life.
I have been prefilling filters since I was at least 16 or 17 on all of mine and my family's cars that I maintain. From age 16 to 21 I worked at a full service Texaco station. Every oil change I did there I prefilled the filters. I am so glad you did this video if for no other reason it backs up what I all ready knew.
For every story I hear from prefilled I hear another for not filling with the same result. The similarity is changing your oil on time with good quality oil.
Guys, finally we have scientific and empirical approach to the oil topic, not just opinions of sofa specialist who express their opinions and those are true because they do so. Please make new videos more often. Your content is super terrific and useful.
This type of knowledge is nothing new in the industry, oil analysis etc., was there for last 40-50 years. But somehow this is "new" to many people, especially in the automotive field. No one has an obligation to educate internet trolls.
@@GrandePunto8V Well ain't you a ray of fkn sunshine. Dude - EVERYONE has an obligation to educate internet trolls. Your way of thinking is the polar opposite of what it should be.
@@GrandePunto8V Nobody is saying oil analysis is new, but in this video it shows that new oil out of the bottle is cleaner than when it came out of and engine without filling the oil filter with oil prior to installation and after the system has been primed. It's showing the trolls that there is engine damage (crank main bearings and connecting rod bearings) due to not pre filling the oil filter. If this information is not put out there for the general public to know, then how are people to learn right from wrong. Everytime I sell and oil filter I inform my customer they should fill it with oil prior to installation and I explain why. They usually say if they do it will leak out when they install it because most of them are sideways on motorcycles. I tell them while the engine is warming up fill the filter with clean oil and let it sit and when it comes time to install it, it would have absorbed most of the oil and you're only going to lose maybe a table spoon.
I REALLY like this topic: The home mechanic doing an oil change can also test this for themselves: Time how long it takes for the oil pressure to come on from when you crank the engine, when: 1/ new oil filter is pre-filled, 2/ new oil filter installed without oil. I know for a fact that it takes longer for the oil pressure switch light to go out. So of course I always pre-fill. I can’t believe people would think new oil would have particulates that could harm the engine without going through the oil filter first! It needs to get dirty FIRST! That’s serious overthinking right there, LOL 😂.
Oh my...so glad I found this video. Back in my early 20s (I'm 45 ATM) I worked in Walmarts TLE and none of us, literally none, prefilled. Never even crossed our minds. My God, every vehicle I serviced, including my own, were done improperly. Ugh...
I’ve been filling my filters since the 80s. I saw an article about it, and it made a lot of sense to me. I have a Chevy small block, so it works well. Even though now it’s running a remote filter mount, that is vertical, I still fill my filters. My street car has a vertical filter mount, and you can bet that I still fill it. I believe that otherwise, there’d be a huge air bubble that would cause some damage in starting the engine
When you say vertical... do you mean the filter screws down on the post or up? Most filters are vertical... or slightly diagonal, but screw upward from below. I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea of pre-filling an oil filter but then turning it over to mount it... 😱😱
The thing is, there's always an air bubble, the pickup tube drains when you empty the oil pan and there's also still some air space in a pre-filled filter. This test was flawed because they did not test how long it takes to get pressure after draining the engine and installing a pre-filled filter, it takes more time than an already primed engine. I still think you should pre-fill the filter, but you don't get instant oil pressure like they tried to demonstrate in this video.
I’m just recently going back to doing my own oil changes and I used to always prefill. The idea is you are allowing as little air into the pump as possible so it pressurizes as fast as possible. It’s weird this is even a debate. Even if it served no other purpose than piece of mind I’d still do it. It adds maybe 30 seconds of work to the job.
@@Willheheckaslike-d4h But the entire system needs pressure regardless of if it’s downline or upstream from the pump. Air anywhere in the system causes pressure to drop, right?
@@Willheheckaslike-d4hIt's not so much "air in the pump", but the filter will obviously be full of nothing but air if you don't fill it first, and those few seconds it takes to pump the filter full of oil means that the engine is running with ZERO oil pressure, and the engine suffers a bit of wear from it. That little bit of damage DOES accumulate over time, and takes precious life off the engine.
@user-uv7up4vg6i That oil left in the bearings is basically useless without pressure behind it. It's a proven fact that up to 90% of engine wear happens during start-up, when there isn't any pressure in the system. If oil sitting in the bearings was enough to protect the engine, we would use it, instead of a much more expensive special clingy, thick, assembly lube when we build an engine.
I was taught to fill the oil filter at oil change, but had a father with all answers to questions because I told you so or something like that idiom. Thanks for facts and information.
I always pre-fill the filter three times. When I let it sit between fills I can see the level go down as it soaks into the filter material. Thanks for all the great info.
In my experience there is absolutely no benefit to prefilling the filter with oil. Assuming your oil pump is working normally, it will fill that filter in a few seconds and away you go. I've been doing my own oil changes for 50+years and I always keep my cars a long time. Never had a problem. And if your filter is mounted horizontally, how are you going to prefill it???
@@MrPLC999did you watch the video? Have you actually tried pre-filling a filter that's mounted side ways? It's actually still pretty easy. I do the same method as Jake above. Just fill it, let it soak into the filter, fill it again and it'll still absorb a lot, then on the final fill I just fill it about 1/2 way (filter is now pre-soak and is 1/2 full of oil that's free to get pumped to the oil galleys) then I just reach down and turn it sideways and spin it onto the oil filter adapter.
@@MrPLC999 And in that few seconds of non-lubricated running you're scraping metal off the bearings, cylinder walls, and piston rings, and with the newer engines you're also wearing down the camshaft castings in the heads that have no bearings and depend strictly on the oil film to keep them from rubbing together. Fill the filter.
As an automotive machinist ( 40 years)I can say with complete confidence you don't have to pre fill the filter. A ton of modern engines have filters that are either horizontal or vertical ( upside down) that have zero issues not being pre filled.
I am a newer tech and I have not been pre-filling oil filters, wasn't even something that came up in school or around the shop. After seeing this video I am going to start doing this! Thank you for posting this.
Makes perfect sense. Although I have not practiced it. Now, with my 2016 colorado, I couldn't if I tried. Cartridge filter on top of engine. My car's filter is cannister. But extremely tight space and on the slant. Have to turn filter a couple of angles to get where it's going . Days of V8 with cannister are pretty much over.
Hopefully this shows you how much your schooling lacks for proper education of practicing the trade correctly. As a ASE Master Engine Builder, plus other titles, 33 year owner of automotive machine shop, look at books used in classes to see horrible statements and massive lacking of information required for the tech to be successful.
I think my 29yo 1994 Toyota truck with 442K miles doesn't care, I have never prefilled my filter, 7 minutes per oil change with filter, and 5 minutes without filter (I change the filter every other time). Half a year to 30, no major work done, still running well.
Fantastic video, hopefully you save a LOT of barrings!!! The reasons I am 1000% for doing my own oil changes is so that I can #1 let all of the oil drain I tend to let it drain for like 20 minutes, #2 I always pre-fill the oil filter. #3 I use better oil and filter. I use OEM filter which actually tends to be cheap like motorcraft for Ford is like $7 or $8, For Mercedes I use the OEM German MANN filters which I can find for like $10. All those oil change places ripping you off with $16 and $20 oil filters... AND I get to use better oil or my choice of oil. #4 I make sure the oil level is perfect, I have had over filled oil so many times in the past. THE ONLY ISSUE with doing your own oil changes is forgetting when you did it!!!!! Get roll of oil change stickers so you can write down and stick it on the windshield and not forget.
I can't believe people would think pre filling a filter is a bad thing. I know what the ISO cleanliness numbers mean so I'm glad you touched at the end the difference in particles with the code number increase - im sure many out would be thinking the increase is only a couple of numbers, but each increase is actually doubling the number of particles
I'm so glad that I don't Google things like, "should I pre fill an oil filter," because after 60 plus years of working on engines, I know that I should pre fill the oil filter. I know that the oil going into that filter is not "dirty," and I also know that most people are idiots.
You'd be surprised of how many dealer mechanics and lube places skip that part. Filling the filter. I know first hand mechanics who told me they don't bother with it because of the extra time it takes. It's not them worrying about contaminated oil. Part of why I will always change my own oil.
I've been doing it the way you guys recommend all my life, and all of my engines ran and performed perfectly. Thanks for a great and educational video!
Also if motor oil was dirty from the bottle how would small engines like lawn mowers and generators survive since they are splash lubricated with NO oil filter!
@turbodog99 At 500 hours hmm? I wonder how my 25 year old walk behind John Deere is still chugging along, starts first or second pull even after sitting all winter 🤔
Two points -working on and/or restoring vehicles and heavy equipment for 50 yrs I can't imagine that the oil out of the can is worse for your engine than the dirty oil you just removed from the crankcase. On some engines the flow is less the the diameter of a pencil with not a heck of a lot of GPM. I've always prefilled the filter and most of my machinery is from the 1950's with all ORINGINAL engines!
I have never prefilled my filter over 40 years with the same car but I don't see any problem. I don't think it will make any difference no matter what we do.
I considered prefilling my filters back in the day but my car at the time had a filter that screwed on from the top down. Sweet video. Love that you are addressing maintenance nuances like this.
Great video. As a retired aircraft mechanic it is wild to think anyone would recommend not pre filling. Unless someone is cleaning the filter housing area thoroughly prior to removing the filter, more contamination would come from there than a new bottle of oil.
I pre filled a filter and crawled under my truck, careful not to spill the oil, then bumped the fuel line and got sand all over the filter !! Back to the auto parts store for a new one !!
@@TIMEtoRIDE900 Good filters come with a plastic seal cover and you can reinstall it after prefill then remove it when you are in position to install it onto the engine. It's best to rinse clean the area of dirt and debris prior to service to prevent any contamination.
You should be fired if you are doing something in the maintenance routines that the manufacturer does not tell you to do. That is how you get people killed. If it tells you to fill it, fill it. If it doesn't tell you to fill it, don't.
I’ve always filled mine up with almost as much oil as they can hold on vertical or slightly angled filters. On horizontal mount ones, I add enough oil to be able to rotate it and soak the filter material without any running out.
I got mechanics certificate in 1982 after leaving school. I have been building, modifying and servicing engines my whole life. I'm 61 years old as I write this. I have retired from working now but still service and maintain my families cars including a engine with over 1.3 million miles on the clock. It's serviced every 5000 miles and I always prefill the new oil filter on all the engines I look after. The reason I prefill the filter is the amount of time it takes the engine to reach its maximum oil pressure before the engine fires to life. It is the best advice I can give anyone who wants their engine to last a long-time. This video just confirms I have been doing the right thing.
It’s not just about oil starvation on initial startup. Pre filling the filter saturates the media and on startup the DP across the filter is lower in a full filter than in a dry filter. It also minimizes air in the oil.
Exactly, even with side mounted filters, I will fill the oil filter as much as I can to wet the filter media as much as possible, and pour out the excess if theres too much, for that exact reason.
@@ratgreen sure you can, maybe not plumb full, but just because it's on a bit of an angle you can still get quite a bit in them. Some of the older Ford's it was real easy, they were pretty much vertical. One of my older pickups has an oil cooler with a horizontal remote mount for the filter. I can get it 2/3rds -3/4 ish full then hold it vertical and quickly tip it horizontal and spin er on. You don't lose much oil.
when I had spark engines , I used to pull the disturbor cap to keep the engine from starting up and spin the engine 3-4 times to fill the filter and then replace the cable and then start the engine. I know that was being paranoid but that would prevent any oil starvation issue, but to be fair that was being overly parnoid. Newier cars and diesels you can do what I'm suggesting.
@@ratgreenOn a side mount filter I do that too, except I totally fill the filter first until all air is purged, then hold horizontal until the level stabilises, then screw it on (with the a thin film of oil on the rubber of course).
I've ALWAYS pre-filled my oil filters. Been doing it that way for the last 55yrs, and I've always changed my oil myself. I didn't need anybody to tell me that, it was just obvious. For the last 25yrs I've been using FilterMags on my oil filters, too. If everybody could see how much ferrous dust those magnets can pick up out of the oil and hold it until you replace the filter, they'd be using neodymium magnets on their (metal bodied)filters, too. Maybe you could do a scientific test of that, and cut open a filter and show viewers that, also.
probably a good idea for crappy blocks. when you inspect for metal- inspect for stray casting sand in the filter media while youre at it and you'll see that GM blocks are the WORST
You still got lublication on bearing when you start it up since you just had it running before you change the oil . I saw a boy one time changing oil, had the oil out, decided to move the car off the rack and put it back on the rack for some reason, never hurt the vehicle one bit, a fact, Than he put the oil in it, filter was already on it, owner seen him do that. LOL No, did not hurt the car, owner of the dealership knew it did not hurt the car, it was a Chevey Impala . By the way, I never did fill up oil filters on any car , not even my NIssan Altma and it has 151,000 miles on it now , and I done thousands of oil changes on state police cars as a head mechanic, , it still has lublicant on the bearing, and it will fill the oil fifter right up fast , never had a problem with it , NEVER , after changing oil in hundreds of police vehicles for over a decade . Don't rev it up until it picks the oil up you understand. LOL Only problem I ever had with those Dodge cars where cam shafts on those 318 motors would go out or those police would get the car hung up and rev it up wide open back and forth until they blow a hole in the piston . Now those real old police cars that had the 440 motors in them, it could have a dead cylinder on that piston and he can ran it like that also , LOL it would still do 140 mph with one dead cylinder and run smooth as pie, yes that is a fact . LMAO
I always pre-fill my filters, even the ones are mounted sideways, I just get them as full as I can without spilling any oil because some oil is better than none. I’ve always been told people don’t like to pre-fill filters because they’re worried about stuff falling into the filter like a sloppy mechanic would do. But I always make sure I’m in a clean environment without dust floating around and I’m always very mindful of anything that could get inside the filter before I install it so it’s really a non-issue unless you’re a sloppy mechanic.
Very good comment jeff! I pre fill my filter inside, away from my workshop, and cover the filter as I take it out to the vehicle, and immediately install it. COMMON Sense after all.
Never really thought if oil changes this way. I was raised with just lubricate the o-ring and throw it on. Never asked any questions. Video came up cause I've been watching oil videos cause I want to take better care of my current vehicle and now I have a new way of changing oil. Thanks for the information!
Back in the 1970s, I was told to fill the oil filter when you can, but of course some engine installations make this impossible with horizontal or even upside down mounting, and with paper insert filters also. But a trick I worked out for myself was to prevent the engine firing on first cranking after an oil change before the oil pressure came up. Easier in older engines as you can remove the connection between the coil and the distributer cap or leave the engine stop out [on a diesel] till the old pressure comes up. On modern engine this is much harder or even impossible to do where the ignition electrics have to be properly connected for the computer logic to allow for cranking in the first place or the diesel stop is activated with the electrical services inside the diesel pump. That is backwards progress! Nice video, thanks. Best wishes from George in UK.
George ,Thanks for your reply . Another option is to fill the new filter with oil ,let it soak up as much oil as it can , then empty the excess back into the container . If you measure the before and after oil levels ,you will be surprised at how much it actually absorbs .
@@Crosley3251 Yes that's what I did on my Volvo C70, where the oil filter is literally upside-down, so decided to soak the filter element first, did the same with the fuel filter, even though that was in the conventional set-up, still soaked it then half filled the container before screwing it back, the engine started and ran without a hiccup !
And, most modern vehicles have a flood clearing mode- hold gas pedal to the floor before and while cranking- in this mode no fuel is injected while the pedal is fully depressed.
I'm glad you talked about this. I always have such a time filling the filter with a 5 quart bottle without getting it everywhere. I still wasn't sure it wasn't a new guy hazing thing I never caught up with.
When I was younger I was taught to add a little oil, about an ounce in the filter and swish it around to wet the filter material and prevent any damage to the dry filter when oil starts coming in under pressure. That and to put some oil on the seal to prevent seizing, which I'm fairly sure everybody does.
@@jimdunne1900 if you are using that bad of a quality oil filter on your engine, the filter will fail regardless of wet or dry and you kind of deserve what you get for using a cheap-ass Chinese shit filter. Genuine filters have no problems whatsoever, wet or dry.
The same people that don't prefill the oil filter are the same ones that change their oil with engine cold and leave moisture and other contaminates in engine
Many decades ago I started pre-filing my oil filters. Even if they were horizontal I pre-filled them. Always waited to let the filter medium soak up the oil and then add some more. Even if I lost a bit on a horizontal filter when installing that is the best I can do. Anyhow what I noticed after I began pre-filling the oil light gauge will immediately go off vs not pre-filling where it took a 2 or 3 seconds to go off. That is all the proof I needed to show I was getting oil to my bearings faster with a pre-fill. This video proves that I have been doing it correctly for a long time now.
It is so smart to let the oil filter sponge up some oil n then you tilt it and spin it on sideways or upside down as in 12 cylinder Italian powerhouses such as Ferrari Bugatti pagani Lamborghini Fiat Alfa Romeo Lancia Maserati.
just imagine the amount of life your losing per oil change not prefilling, over the course of a cars life, what 10 miles of wear, lmao, I drove 100 miles with out oil in 2 miles stints and then finally could afford oil and car make it 100,000 miles after that until tranny went out
Doesnt matter at all. The oil light being on for a couple of seconds after oil change means nothing. But always good to be on the safe side. Sincerely, a mechanic.
I just stumbled across your channel and really enjoy the details and testing you perform. I’m very oil change conscious and a little ocd with my engines, I can’t tell you how many folks will argue about oil, brands, intervals and even viscosity . lol. Good job guys, I’m a new subscriber
I have always pre-filled my oil filters since early 70's, a mechanic at the time showed me. I have an original '64 327 365 hp Sting Ray with the original big canister filter set-up, I always prefill that as far as I can before it might spill over. Now I also have a Cadillac CT6-V with a twin turbo Blackwing engine, which is a very high tech engine. The spin on filter spins on at a 45 degree angle which means oil will spill out when you tip to install. What I do is fill about 2/3 full, tilt the filter in my hands while rotating it. This allows the clean oil to fully saturate the filter material. You can see the level of oil level go down in the filter as it soaks into the material. Now I pre-fill more oil into the filter up to the level it will almost spill out at the angle needed to spin the filter onto the engine. When its time to start that 550hp, 640 lb. ft. LTA engine I have the oil pressure screen showing on the DIC screen. I can see an indicated 40 psi pressure in under 2 seconds doing it this way! Bravo guys for showing everyone what I have been experiencing for many years!
Great analysis! Seeing the delay in oiling when the filter isn't pre-filled confirms something I always knew, but never went to the trouble of testing myself. But even the slight delay of a regular cold start is unacceptable! Installed an Accusump oil accumulator with solenoid valve wired to the ignition, so when the key is turned "on", engine oil is pressurized to 30-35 PSI - before the engine cranks. Even with this pre-oiling system in place, I still pre-fill my filters every oil change. Best practice!
On all Subarus, the oil filter is mounted top side upside down for easy service. That means every time your vehicle is started, that oil filter has no oil in it. This is not a problem. As an engineer, the oil film needed for lubrication is measured in microns, and all your engine components remain covered in a film of oil meaning friction is not an issue. The reason you put so many quarts in is because the oil is also cooling and the big reservoir dilutes contaminants and lasts longer, but an engine starting isn't going to be damaged by a second of low oil pressure, as it has plenty of film on it for lubrication and heat buildup takes time.
@@BoopSnoot they address this in the video at 5:35, and their oil analysis confirmed that metal/metal contact was occurring on dry starts. I agree that with day-to-day starting oiling is sufficient, but particularly on starts after winter storage, or even a week of non running, I'd rather have pre-oiling than not. And remember that pre-oiling is only a side benefit with the Accusump - it's main purpose is provide up to 3 quarts of buffer while running, in case of a pump failure or extreme cornering Gs.
As a long time gear head, son of a lifelong mechanic, and auto enthusiast with their own DIY repair channel, I absolutely can't believe the stupidity of people sometimes. Thank you for debunking this myth I've never even heard of. Next thing you know we'll hear that you should under inflate your tires to increase mpg and reduce tire wear.
@CJRock-xn5qf lol. I have a 3.5 eco-boost f150 2012,, horizontal filter, I change oil every 10,000km, I never pre-fill, soak or fool around, just dump the oil, change the filter and dump in 6 litre of oil and fire it up and idle for a minute. 362,000km, it never uses enough oil to bother adding between oil changes. People making mountains of bs out thin air. I agree with you.
@@CJRock-xn5qfBecause the manufacturer only cares about the vehicle lasting through the warranty period. If you plan on keeping a vehicle for awhile, why not do everything you can for longevity
@RedlineMaximaSE It's not like 10k mi. Oil changes. Now what do you do with vertical filters and those mounted open side down. Then there's canister style that can't be prefilled.
Years ago putting your filters on dry was pretty much a non-issue. No one gave it much thought. I knew guys from both sides and it didn't seem to have much effect on the engine's life. However, with the advent of multi-viscosity oils that old method went to hell in a hand basket. When Cummins brought out the Big Cam engines there was a sharp increase in camshaft/follower failures. Cummins soon found out that many failures occured shortly after an oil change. What few operators realized was that the multigrade oils got so thin that when the drain plug was pulled that 8+ gallons of oil, which now had the viscosity of black coffee, rushed out with such a fury that it siphoned out the lube system. Refilling with fresh oil plus installing the filters dry took many seconds to refill the oil galleries. There was an advisory to fill the filters before installation. A second advisory was to not change the oil hot but to let the engine cool down for an hour before pulling the plug. "For the extra three cups of old oil left in the galleries, the new filters should take care of that." Close quote. After following that advice engine failures amost stopped completely...
I'm not buying the "oil rushes out SO fast that it's siphoning the oil galleys out"... How could that even HAPPEN if the oil cap is off the engine?? 🤔 There could be NO vacuum if the cap is off, as it would just draw air in through the huge hole in the engine where the cap was... 🤦🏻 Edit: The issue of worn lifters/followers in other engine designs (such as the Mopar Pentastar V-6) has to do with the design of the oil filter system, and it draining back to the pan when the engine is shut off, and then the engines starting dry every time they are started for a few seconds. It's a known problem. I suspect the CAT issue was similar... also, the failures wouldn't happen "Right after an oil change". It would take a while to wear out
I have always pre-filled. I don't know where I learned it. I am 73yrs and do my own changes. Once time when I was 19 or 20 and I was in a hurry to get on a roadtrip I had one of those fast lube places do the change. They misaligned the filter, the oil drained out, and burned up the engine. They tried to get out of replacing the engine, but were overheard by a family friend and our attorney got me a brand new engine. I do the changes in our 93 Camry, 92 4Runner, and my 99 Dodge Ram/5.9 Cummins. And I always prefill the filter.
I've always prefilled. I feel like anyone who understands how an oil pump, and oil pressure / lines / fluid mechanics works would instinctively know that pre filling will always make sense. I've only ever heard 'its a waste of time' from people who dont understand how things work, or lack the ability to think ahead, or are hacks who dont care about anything.
I guess people who design engines for a living don't have a clue about engine lubrication and the people who make oil filters are idiots also. However, some goof ball in silly glasses has all the right answers.
Really? What about large filters? Running the engine for seconds longer with low/no oil pressure can't be good. Filling the filter can't hurt and surely must benefit the engine. People who design engines agree with pre-lubing. Racers do it all the time. Pre-lube kits can be installed on engines. You throw a switch before starting the engine and the oil is pressurized BEFORE starting. Dry starts are NEVER good! @@lukew2194
Pre filling the filter out of the bottle is no different than pouring out of the bottle into the engine, I have always pre filled my filters whenever possible. Good video, thanks.
@@2seep BS. I have never prefilled any filter in 50 years. Many many cars. NEVER had one engine bearing failure. My 2004 Pilot has 300k miles - no issues.
Thank you both for taking the time and effort to make this information available to us. I realize most people may not have an issue with this, but every time both of you were talking at the same time, I had a hard time understanding what either one was saying. Letting a person finish their sentence will only improve future videos.
I started changing oil way back in 1968 on my dads Electra and ended up doing many of my uncles cars before I got my first new car in 1974. Initially, never pre-filled those canister filters and always bothered me seeing the oil light come on and hearing the noise on the first initial start-up with the newly installed filter. Not sure WHY I waited so long to figure this out but starting in 1987, I finally started to prefil the filters on my cars and oil light goes out right away, again with no noise on initial startup. Back in the day, my dad and uncles only kept their cars and replaced them every 3 years but I keep my vehicles now a minimum of 10 years and never had any oil related issues pre-filling the canister filters before an install. And I seldom put on more than 3500 miles between changes (using dyno oil, not synthetic) and ALWAYS a new oil filter with each change. Changing the oil is probably one of the best things you can do as its the lifeblood of your car as far as Im concerned. Side note, Im not fond of FRAM filters, especially now that they are NOT made in the USA. I usually use OEM.
It makes sense to fill the filter/filters, pre-lube every part of the engine that is oil required when a repair, rebuild. The oil change is an important part of engine life, fill the filter first.
Question, sir. Years ago, i started putting in a quart of fresh oil in my engine after draining the old oil. Wait for it to drain out. Then, complete the oil change. The theory is that you can remove more contaminants. Can you test this? Thank you in advance.
Always pre-fill the oil filter if you can. It reduces the amount of time during that initial start the engine has low oil pressure from filling the oil filter itself.
Lol. Uhh no. The oil pump is way before the filter. It’s gonna build pressure regardless of rather the oil filter is full or not. Pre fill. Don’t pre fill. Doesn’t matter
@@garyalford9394 and some like the pentastar are upside down AND cartridge so they 100% just bleed back down to the pan a few minutes after you shut the engine off.
@Russel_russelson No. There is no pressure until the system is filled. There is flow, but not pressure. Watch the video again. You can't have pressure pumping fluid into an empty cavity. There is no oil to the bearings while the filter is filling from empty.
@@mback12000 I don’t need to. I have built engines for over 20 years. There is no pressure at the gauge sending unit because there isn’t any flow there. But the oil pump on ever engine is directly connected to the oil reservoir and builds pressure the second you start the motor. You can’t have “flow” if you don’t have any pressure to push the flow. Oil sending units are located on the top end usually You noticed he dint show testing with a empty full filter? You know why? Because the time Result is the exact same. I have built and tested this multiple times.
A little tip, when I have an engine that I can't pre-fill the oil filter. I disconnect the ignition and crank the engine until I see oil pressure. Then I reconnect the ignition and start the engine.
I am a master certified Automotive Technician with 35 years of experience and I can tell you “when possible”, it is always a good idea to pre-fill your oil filter. For most automotive applications in the first few rotations the filter has been filled because it is so small, before the engine starts but the air pocket with still make its way through the system. I guess best way to rule of thumb it. The bigger your filter the more you want to put some oil in it if you can. There are some application that you simply can not fill the filter, oh well. Blame the engineers. Bottom line, I agree fill your filter when possible and change your oil every 5000 or 6 months which ever comes first.
I work on a car ferry. Our big cat V8s need to be pre lubed with a pump before starting. It can take up to 10 seconds for the oil to get to the top end of the engine. And you can hear the valves tick until oil gets into the top end. So it absolutely makes sense to fill up a filter. Just like it makes sense to pre-lube our big diesel.
Lake almost mentioned it, but there's a reason filters have an inner seal. Maybe Lake can do a video on what it's for and why it's important. And i loved how quickly the pressure came up with a full filter! it was quicker than I was expecting.
Equally to point: a prefilled filter that is newly installed, or an engine that's been sitting a while, won't have as much retained oil in the system as one that's been fully pressurized, shut off, and then run again a short time later. That last case is the only one they appear to have simulated. I would still expect the re-pressurization time to be shorter, but by how much? And what about with different oil pump styles, filter styles, and locations? There are a lot of variables to that question.
I've always prefilled oil filters and if equipped with a flood clearing function of the engine, held the accelerator all the way down while cranking the engine for a few seconds to allow the engine to build some pressure after the change. This is also the better method for cartridge style filters where prefilling isn't really possible.
I've only encountered 1 vehicle that didn't have flood mode but I can't recall what it was. I know my wife's 2016 BMW also has that feature and it's nice to have for it since it uses a cartridge filter.
Good show and advice! I've prefilled my filter with oil at oil changes even though my friend says he never does it. I didn't have proof of this benefit until I saw your video. Thank you so much for clearing this up, my friend😊
I was a mechanic for 38 years and can’t tell you how many oil changes I’ve done, not only on gasoline engines but diesel engines as well and have always prefilled oil filters. Not only pre filling engine oil filters but also pre filling fuel filters and hydraulic oil filters as well. Old school education and I’ve also taught this to my students when I taught a preventative auto maintenance class. It’s only common sense. BTW you now have a new subscriber and I thank you for setting this straight. Ron
The modern diesel world has a bit of a different view on pre-filling fuel filters, at least in marine applications. Per the spec and maintenance instructions on my Cummins QSC 8.3 and my QSB 6.7, they definitely spec to pre-fill the oil filters. But Cummins specifically warns NOT to pre-fill the fuel filters. The reasoning ,per my local Cummins agent and others, is that modern common rail diesels have such small injector ports that you don't want any contamination. Filling a fuel filter effectively bypasses all the upstream filtering of usually 2 filters. In my case its a 20 micron Racor and the 2 micro on-engine filter. Unlike oil that's from a sealed container fuel is generally of unknown quality. Fuel can also have biological growth that would clog an injector. It's simple to prime the filter on a Cummins common rail: their own instructions call for just cycling the key to the "run" position a few times and letting the lift pump run to fill the filter. I know older engines require bleeding of air, but the Cummins common rails don't need it after just a filter change.
Even in my 1994 they told you to not prefill the fuel filter, same thing in a friend's 1992. What the manual says, is what you do. You don't deviate from it. Just because hacks that think prefilling an oil filter is helpful go away with prefilling other things, doesn't mean that it was ever correct. In the case of my 1994, there was a bleed valve you used to allow the fuel pump to prime the system on its own. On my friend's 1992, there was a hand operated primer you used to prime the system. following the manual, is not difficult. Making up useless crap to do is far more effort
All you need to see in this video starts at 9:20. Pre-filled filter gives oil pressure sooner and is nearly like a fully primed oil circulation system. Easy!
Speaking for just over 50 years of owning Toyota’s and doing oil/filter changes every 3000 miles and NEVER prefilling the filters, each car had over 220,000 to 225,000 miles on them before I traded or sold them, all with excellent compression and very little oil burning between changes, never had excessive chain/sprocket wear, worn valve guides/stems etc. I am 74 now and still doing it the same way. Proof is in the pudding. Lots of wives tales out there along with poorly made engines and engines with poor care and neglect from their owners.
Nothing is always...you both beat the odds. But then again, knowing the science & data support prefilling the filter, how much less wear would have occurred had the system been properly primed and pre-filled?
@@dix_pack_of_sixie With respect to the Caravans it doesn’t really matter. I got my miles out of them. One of them went to 360k before a t-bone accident (no casualties) ended its run. Jury’s still out on the two Chevys.
Can’t say I’ve ever heard of an engine failing due to not pre-filling the filter. Most are from using oil not specified by manufacturer or not following recommended oil change intervals.
I'm 76 years old and I've been pre-filling filters since I was about 17 or 18 years old. Did that on a tip from a mechanic (older man) friend of mine. Just made sense to me.
Great research. To fill my engine and oil filters I use an plastic oil jug that is only ever used for clean oil and which has a large screw-on lid to cover the hole where you put the oil in and a flexible nozzle for dispensing the oil. The nozzle also has a lid that screws on and off. It cost £10 or about $12 (I'm in the UK).
I have started an engine after changing the engine oil and filter (empty). With the engine idling, there was a noticeable crankshaft bearing knock until the filter was full and oil pressure was established. The crankshaft bearings were all in good condition and not worn. When the filter was prefilled with clean engine oil, and the exercise repeated, oil pressure was reached within a couple of seconds. It makes sense to pre-fill the oil filter if you can. It makes no sense at all to start the engine with the oil filter empty if you don't have to.
If you keep changing the oil without pre oiling the filter, you will, sooner than later, experience Rod knock, or at least lifter wear. Always prelube the filter when changing oil in your engine!
And if the filter is horizontally mounted , you just disconnect the nozzles/jets , or ignition sensor , or at old diesels disconnect the gas-switch on the High Pressure fuel pump, and than crank it Untill the oil-pressure light turns off , And only After that , you Can start the engine Peacefully !!! ! !!!
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If your oil filter is vertically or horizontally mounted, here's a pro tip to prime the filter before starting the engine.
th-cam.com/users/shortsZF-SPAKtzrY?feature=share
@themotoroilgeek
I've been a auto technician for years and I had a old timer. Tell me that didn't have to fill the oil filter if you did the oil change and no oil in filter. To start the engine and then turn it off and repeat atleast three times. To prime the oil in the system and through filter. I was never sold on not filling the oil filter so, I fill the filter still and then start and then turn engine off atleast three times. I would like to know your thoughts about this. After a oil change and oil in the filter should you start and immediately turn engine off multiple times before running the engine longer to prime the oil in the engine?
@@DK-Nachowifiturning it off and on does nothing because the oil pump doesn’t run with the vehicle off. But prefilling the filter just insures the system will prime faster, maybe takes a second to two at most. Prefilling the filter is good and can only help. If you can’t cause it’s a horizontal mount then oh well it is what it is.
I know for a fact that pre-filling the filter prevents that little slowdown from a fresh oil change from bearings dragging or lifter delayed pump up. I don't know what was causing the engine to have a sort of load on it on the start up but prefilling the filter prevented that. Keep in mind that that I have several V8's with high mileage that did that. The cars I have always owned and have prefilled are a '76 Dodge B200 360C.I., a'79 Camaro 5L, an '88 Ford 5L and a '98 Ford 4.6L. Lets just say all my engines don't burn oil happily without additives well over 100K miles. I only had to hear that lag once for myself to be convinced. I should point out that I was a professionally trained mechanic back in 1989 where my journeyman taught me to always pre-fill the filter.
@@mrwebber35 Thanks for sharing!
🤣
I'm 70 and have been prefilling filters since I was 18, on a tip from a friend.
This the first time I've ever heard it questioned.
It blows my mind that people think new oil out of the container is contaminated!
Right?
Especially given the fact that many smaller air cooled engine's don’t even have an oil filter, those are critical to start with clean oil.
@@jeffgriffith7003 exactly. Great point.
Do these people also filter their new milk from the grocery store before drinking it?
I always prefilled my filters when I had Chevy trucks. Can’t do it on fords.
I've been a heavy truck and equipment mechanic for 35 years. Today I serviced a Western Star that holds 11 gallons of engine oil. The two oil filters together held 1 1/2 gallons. I can't even imagine not pre-filling them.
I can't imagine the bill for the oil change!
That's a different animal than a daily driver auto. Special applications require different methods.
Right there with you. I always pre fill all vehicles I work on unless not able to.
Watch garage 54 with the transparent oil filter, they fill instantly with the motor turning over!
That's a Centrifugal pump and filter so your comparing a mountain to a couple grains of salt.
As a lifetime pro mechanic and hi-performance geek, I just want to thank you both for going the extra mile to disprove some of the incredibly stupid stuff floating around the internet....you have my deepest respect!
Some people like to argue for sake of arguing
Thanks, I appreciate it. The response to this video is literally mind blowing, LOL
@bobmcgehee1749
What a load of crap, how can you say people like to argue for the sake of it?
I want to see proof. 😏
@@johno9507 Ok, go look in the mirror.
@@bobmcgehee1749
😉 I couldn't resist
I have always prefilled the filter because in high school, I took auto tech, and we had a valvoline sponsored video instruction on changing the oil. They suggested to prifill the oil filter to reduce the time the engine runs without oil pressure. So I guess thanks valvoline for teaching me right.
@@renecruzbonilla
That's right
thats just silly. the time it takes to pressurize is the smallest fraction of a second.... and even while you have moving parts in that small time period they are already covered in engine oil from surface tension...
But if the oilfilter is installed dry it may absorb better the first dirtiest drops of old residual engine oil which did not come out with the drained oil compared to prefillied oilfilter?
@@amishdinkledork Nonsense, an average size filter will take 3-5 seconds to fill, sit in the car and watch the oil light or pressure gauge after a dry filter change. I look after several 3.2l Shogun/Pajeros which have a large filter which contains close to a litre of oil and take about 10 seconds to put the light out if not prefilled. In 10 seconds at 1000rpm, the engine will turn over 166 revolutions with no oil circulation.
Nah, put no oil in anywhere, and have done.
In the 1970s my Grandfather taught me to always fill the oil filter first, and lubricate the seal, always wipe the mating surface clean as well ! Been doing it that way ever since ! It just makes sense. Never had a lubrication problem with an engine ! My 97 Silverado is over 307 thousand miles still working great 👍
Vortec 5.7 is the Godzilla of V-8's💪🏽
What do you do when you have to turn your filter upside down?
Anti drain back valve, most of it will stay in the filter without coming out.@@alanmerritt860
i've built 180-cubic-inch V6 motors that have made 275bhp- with a slightly massaged holley model 4412 2-barrel carb- and all motor. lets see mr. goodwrench do THAT.
@@alanmerritt860spin it on really fast?? There’s definitely some dumb designs out there with oil filter placement.
65 years old and changing oil for about 55 years with my dad. We have pre-filled since the first one. Proud to say I’ve paid for only 2 oil changes in my life. I look after the family’s cars.
Same here. Have always done free maintenance on my CLOSE relatives cars (grandmother, rest her soul, my mom, my brother, mine, and my sister when she lived at home when we were all teens. Also the ex and ex-mother in law).
I like to get to pick out the oil, though, (either Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 OR Rotella T6 5W-40, depending on the engine) and always, always tell them to use an AC Delco filter for GM and Motorcraft for Ford. That's just how it's done.
I have a 5.0 (the old school one), so I use the giant FL-1A. Mom's 4.6 3v and bro's 4.6 2v and 4v S/C gets the FL-820S. Silicon anti-drainback valve. And then there's a 3800II in the family in a Park Avenue, it gets the AC Delco PF-47... or the PF-47e when there's no PF-47's in sight. I think that's the right one. Haven't seen the plain PF-47 in a long time, really. I just know in my gut that "e" on the PF-47e is for "economy", meaning, economical parts inside of the filter lol.. aka, cheap.
@@JustAGuy85 - Hmmm... seems you might be familier with "Project Farm's" youtube channel(!?)
Same here but I never prefilled the filters because the engine fills it the instant you turn the engine over.
Garage 54 did a clear one
@user-wv1pj6wh4h I usually get over 225,000 miles / 350,000 kms before selling or the body rusts out.
@@JustAGuy85 I use Ford filters on GM too. Heck, I even use them on my lawn tractor and generator. They're just better than AC. Wix are the best, though. Purolator make the Ford filters and are a close second.
Great video. When I was a kid my friend’s dad was a petrochemical engineer and told us to always pre-fill filters when doing an oil/filter change. My auto shop teacher in high school said the same thing and I’ve been pre-filling filters every-time for the last 46 years with no problems.
Thanks for sharing
@@themotoroilgeekI’m a 57 year old farmer who’s changed filters on a lot of tractors and combines over the years and I’ve never filled oil filters 🤷♂️
Have a side mount filter. How do you do that without spilling oil every where?
@@waveriderz2687if you pour the oil in the oil filter and let it sit upward for a while before installing it it will soak into the filter media just don't overfill it.
I all ways filled mine up half way to get it on , because a lot of them are side ways but still have about half the oil in it.
Never prefilled filter, never had some peculiar bearing wear. Actualy, now i am overhaling engine that ran 432000 km under heavy conditions, and bearings looked so good, that i was even considering reusing them.
Lookat it from this perspective.
Nothing is ever a problem, until it's a problem. You can beat the odds time after time, but that one time when you don't, in retrospect, you will be wishing that you had. To take that chance is absolutely ignorant when the preventative measures are completly free, and so incredibly simple and easy. But hey, If you like gambling, then continue on as you were. But just remember...... the house always wins!! 😉
Amen!!! I work for a Fleet and have done this for well over 35 years. I can see and hear the difference upon start-up after the oil and filter change. You can see how long it takes for the oil pressure light to go out while cranking and at initial start-up. You can also hear any low oil pressure related knocks that exist in that engine until the oil pressure light goes out, and you can hear the sudden disappearance of that noise when it does go out.
The only reasons people have to justify not doing the pre-filling of the oil filter method are: The textbooks do not mention doing it. The owner's manuals do not mention it. Finally, some oil filters are mounted at an extreme angle or even upside down which prevent a total fill of the filter without spilling oil during installation. In the last case mentioned, it still helps to add oil slowly to the filter while tilting it and rotating it around to at least saturate the media. Then install it. The majority of the time it takes to reach oil pressure while cranking and at initial start-up is because the media is still absorbing oil before it can let oil pass through.
I know, I know, some will say "who has time for that?" I do. Especially for my own vehicle. I still do it for the Fleet vehicles I work on because I care. I know it helps longevity and I want to do the best job I can to ensure that. If you don't, even on your own car, you are plain and simple just being lazy. Before you saw this video or read this comment you could claim ignorance, but not anymore.
Right -On !!!
There's some crazy Russian mechanics on TH-cam who do weird things with cars & engines. They once modified an oil filter by grafting a clear body onto a filter base plate. It took a surprisingly long time to fill the dry oil filter. They didn't time it, but I'd say it was almost 5sec from when first started.
Makes sense. My '11 Tacoma 4 .0 l v6 filter is a spin on upside down. From now on , I don't care if it gets sloppy, I will at least try to saturate the media with fresh oil. Thanks!
I bought new a 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser with the 4.0 V6. The spin on oil filter is near the top of the engine, upside down. Many many oil changes and never, ever heard a knock or tick after changing the oil. Oil light went out almost instantly
@@jerrykorman7770bull 💩 roll the window down and listen. It ticks like crazy for about 1 or 2 seconds.
Can't be good
I will applaud your patience. If someone told me that pre filling the filter with new oil would damage an engine because it hasn't been filtered, there's no way I could be polite. The amount of stupidity in that theory would normally shock me not considering some of the other things going around in not surprised.
Nice job on the video
The reasoning isn't that the oil is dirty in the bottle, the reasoning is that most people aren't in a lab or marble floored shop, thus there's potential for a chunk of dirt from your hands or a piece of foil seal to go into the center of the filter and clog an oil galley on start up.
I'm a diesel tech and a lot of the filters say on the side not to pre-fill. Caterpillar in particular always has a little oil can filling the filter with a big cross out over it.
A factory Cat manual says just that, I know, hard to believe.
@@tomscrossthreadgarage4183 I'm going to assume that people that know More than me we're in charge of that because obviously the engines last a long time. I'm still stuck on what I assumed was a fact that the longer an engine runs without oil pressure the more where it will incur. Almost all production engines generally are fine on an oil change of screwing a dry filter up there. The ones with a really big oil filters I would assume take a little longer to fill unless they have that high of a volume of oil pump.
Does caterpillar give their reason for not prefilling it?
Caterpillar at one point was the world leader( and may still be)in off and on highway diesel engines and it was always the engineers recommendation to not pre fill oil filters because they did not want unfiltered oil going thru the engine..that recommendation was probably not based on stupidity..... unless major engine work has been done...no shop is pre filling oil filters... millions of filters are being installed dry yet there aren't millions of vehicles with engine failures on the side of the road..
@@445xone Their reasons are laughable.
This 70 year old always prefills his oil filter and I also concur on being careful not to get any pieces of the seal from the oil jug into the oil. Changing your own oil and filter is also a great time to inspect the engine area and under carriage for any leaks or damage underneath.
Thanks for sharing
you will get a better job by doing it yourself, if you let the quickie lube joints do it, they do not care.
I think the guys who post comments like that are truly just looking for attention.....There, there my uninformed friend, why bother with a prefill??? Or for that matter why bother changing your oil at all??? It's just a big scam to make the oil companies richer....Ha ha
With my Jag and Range Rover, the oil is fully changed from the top of the engine.
they do it that way to keep the showroom floors cleaner...@@JetFire9
I've never pre-filled the oil filter. Tbh, I didn't even know there was a pre-fill or not battle. However, I can't believe people would argue against filling the filter because the new oil was "dirty." That argument doesn't make any sense.
It’s mind boggling
I have been pre-filling my oil filters for 50 years and now you proved the fact thank you.
And i am pre-filling oil filters or at least pre-cranking the horizontal filters for more than 30 years.
60 years for me
@@1957f100 GoooOoood !!! ! !!! Thanks to God that some people on the planet still Know how an engine bearings are Working !!! ! !!!
40 yrs for me so by my calculations that's 180 yrs collectively. ✅
the only thing that was proven is the fact that pre-filling the oil filter makes pressure more quickly upon startup. if it makes you feel better- good for you.
When I was a young man in my 20’s My grandfather always said preload your oil filter my Dad told me this too…
And they both always gave me great advice… thanks for confirming that for me…
Now I’ve no doubt I’ve been doing it right for years…..
My father taught me to pre-fill the filter when I was a kid and I've always done so. It always seemed common sense to me that you will build oil pressure faster by pre-filling. You can actually HEAR the difference in the initial engine startup with many engines. You generally hear a tiny bit of engine clatter before pressure builds, and starting an engine with an empty filter makes noise for at least a couple seconds longer.
Thanks for sharing!
Clear flood mode is easier, and better. When you remove the filter, you let more oil out than just what is in the filter. What are you going to do about that? Clear flood mode primes the entire system without the stress of combustion.
so just use flood mode...
@@thewatcher611 Do both if you know you can't afford a new engine.
dad taught me to prefill also, more than 50 years ago. common sense really proven here
Great Video. I have always prefilled my new Oil filters with new oil out of the container. I wanted there to be enough Oil on start up so it did not take so much time to build up oil pressure. Thank You for confirming what I knew was the truth!
in the early 80's Bosch sent a Service Bulletin advising techs to pre-fill filters. The reason given was that the wet filter media was stronger and less likely to have elements break away during initial cold start.
Thanks for sharing!
that was before designed obsolescence. Now they do all kinds of things to accelerate wear like giving bad break in advice and long oil change intervals. I knew an engineer for aircraft told me we have the tech to make engines last millions of miles but choose to not use it for that. Brakes too!
Yes, the filter media can experience a great shock from the incoming oil pressure wave while being unsupported on the filtered side by an equilibrium of pressure. Another great reason to pre-fill the media.
Hmmm on my 3.7 mustang if I were to pre fill the oil filter and install it since its installed sideways then oil will come out while installing...I don't like dry installing the filter so what I started doing is filling the filter and then letting all the oil drain out of the filter...good to know about shock of oil pressure on dry filter media...I suppose my method of filling the oil filter and then draining and installing to saturate the filter media reduces this issue at the least on horizontally mounted oil filters
@@monikhushalpurion side mount filters, I fill them ~½ full. oil will wick/saturate media.
I enjoyed this video. I was also told not to prefill my oil filters from the drum/ 5 gallon bucket. I said that was wrong, why would packaged oil be more contaminated than what's in the engine. The biggest reason, though, is that my trucks are diesel and have extremely large filters. The time it takes to fill an empty filter with oil can do significant damage to the engine. My large trucks use two filters that hold almost 2 gallons of oil...long enough to possibly seize the engine while filling. The filters even state damage can occur if they are not prefilled! The only other issue I have found is previous services or owners did prefill the filters as instructed, but then proceeded to fill the truck with the manual listed oil capacity which overfilled them by 2 gallons, also not good.
As a retired ASE Master Heavy Truck Technician, I can vouch for everything you put forth in this video. I started out in 1969 as a mechanic apprentice in a small speed shop. When we built and engine, we assembled it using Lubriplate. Put it on a run-in stand and flushed out the lubricating system before installing it in a car. As I got older, I switched over to heavy trucks where I spent 49 years. During that time, if it were at all possible, we would fill the oil filter.
Lubriplate used to be some of the best oil you could buy, very high zinc levels. I used it for decades . When taking off valve covers to replace the gaskets that were starting to leak, I noticed that the valvetrain and even the inside of the covers were absolutely clean, no sludge of any kind. And that was after 100,000 mi on the engine. Now the epa has forced lubriplate to reduce the amount of zinc so I have quit using it.
I relate to this video! In High School 1971-72 two-hour per day 5 days a week auto mechanics in OKC we were taught by Mr. Parsons with NO if-ands-or-butts to ALWAYS fill the filter before installing it. 50+ years later I have done that 100% of the time aside from a few vehicles that had a sideways filter. Building VERY fast street racers at that time is a distant "fond" memory doing all night engine swaps with my hot rod buds and experimenting with carb jets, distributor springs, timing w/ vacuum gage and different rear gears (ALL Mechanical Mods!) are some of my favorite memories of my rebellious youth :)! Those were good times that unfortunately will never be available to any generation again!
Kids still work on their own cars and mod them, don't get it twisted. Down pipes, bigger turbos, bigger intercoolers, suspension, intakes, exhaust are all common mods today kids do in their own driveways. Some even swap out cam shafts. Entire engine swaps with LS motors are super common as well.
Same time frame and maybe the same friends, haha. Many of us went on to have our own engine shops, fab shops, machine shops, body shops. Lots of 1/4 milers and asphalt circle tracks around the Pacific Northwest. 70’s & 80’s were Party Central and the most fun you could have with your pants on (most of the time)
As a millwright I worked on many large industrial engines for 50 years and most of them had a pre lube pump on them so that should tell anyone how important lube is at start up. They also had post lube pumps on the turbos that were spinning at 30,000 RPM at shutdown.
If you want caterpillar actually offers oil analysis for a relatively low cost .I believe amsoil also offers this analysis too
Thanks Joe. Working with large diesel / natural gas prime movers for 33 years oil analysis was routine and required by the insurance underwriters. Take care.@@joesutherland225
...VW has auxillary waterpumps that circulate water through the turbo for 2 or 3 minutes AFTER shutdown. It keeps the oil from carmelizing inside the turbo. Thus prolonging the life of the turbo. It is why truckers don't shut off their engines immediately after driving. So when you see a semi-truck setting there idling for a time while parked , you'll understand why.......
I believe all engines should have an electric auxiliary pump for the oil however if you prefill or not a car without that will not have good pressure for the first five or so seconds prefill or no so I see no reason to refill unless you add that pump.
Side note I have added that pump to my classic cars, it is not hard to do and you can tell the different every time you start the cars
You can do that with a car too by making it so it won't run when you try to start it.
I’ve prefilled my filters for over 50+ years. And this proves what I’ve been doing 👍👍👍
proves nothing.
I`ve never prefilled a filter for 50 years without any problems. Current vehicles are 15 &20 years old.
Are you still driving that same car ???? My daily driver is 40 years old and I have never pre filled the filter in all that time so it proves nothing
I doubt it matters but whatever google told the man was dumb
Prefilled or not, it doesn’t matter.
Another thing is that massive equipment like Caterpiller and Komatsu that are for quarry use have engines worth stupid amounts of money. Those machines have a prelube system to build oil pressure before every start to maximize engine life.
What if you spin the engine over without crank it?
Accumulator systems for this are pretty reasonable priced. Plumb into the gauge hole.
Road race cars use similar to prevent starvation during cornering.
having worked in a hospital, now retired, the "CAT " diesel engines running generators would crank the engine with cylinder unloaders open until oil pressure was established, closing the cylinder unloaders/ shutting off starter motor(s), and letting the engine start/ run, first at at an idle then ramp up to operating R.P.M.( 1800), allowing the transfer switches to operate. we tested generators every two weeks. the engines also have coolant block heaters to keep the engines as close to operating temperature as possible. the oil cap. on these engines are 60 gallons
@@miltonwells6750That all I do. Hold down fuel pedal crank it over for 15-20 seconds. Fills the filter.
@@miltonwells6750Not good enough. The engine starter spins engine a few revolutions also before it starts chugging. Don't be lazy!! Just prefill filter
My mom went to High School (WA State) with a fairly famous Top Fuel Racer/Engine Builder Herm Petersen. She took me to his house/shop in Poulsbo, WA when I was in High School. I was always interested in cars/engines and during our long conversations as he was building a motor he mentioned about alway filling the Oil filter. Said it was a was to reduce wear on the motor for free and it was stupid not to do it. Said you could usually get almost 1/2 qt in even a sideways mounted filter if you waited for the paper element to soak up the oil after you poured it in there. I've been doing it ever since my first car and recommended it to all others. Great Video Lake
Great video! I have been pre-filling since I started doing my own oil changes 7-8 years ago. I’ve never heard that it was a bad idea. Common sense would dictate that it is a good idea. You proved it.
Exactly... total "common sense" for sure!
Brand new oil in a brand new oil filter somehow not being filtered has to be one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. Exhaust bearing, blinker fluid, winter and summer air for your tires okay I can see where you made a mistake 😂 but this makes me think that some people wake up and stop using their brains.
Not all filters can be prefilled though. Some are mounted sideways instead of up and down.
@@TheCompbuzz You do the best you can and clean-up any accidental or incidental spillage. Better than not pre-filling at all.
@TheCompbuzz You don't fill those filters all the way. You put in enough oil that won't spill then screw it in. Some oil is better than no oil.
I’ve been pre filling oil filters during changes for 43 years. Thx for the confirmation.
Glad to help
I spent 50 yrs in the business, Building Engines from small gas to Heavy Duty Diesel, This is a habit I practiced through my career, Filled Filter is the Best way, Excellent Best Practice !
Thanks for sharing
But how does the filter flow ? From the outer holes to the center hole ??
@@williamrodriquez1433yes
Im glad to see this. We had a pneumatic pump from my service truck went bad and I never suspected it. The pump was injecting particles, thats when I learned that the pumps on the barrels have a rather short service life! Good Job lake!
Even though, as a seasoned mechanic I already knew the outcome before I watched the video. It was still a very good and informative study. Although, the fact that ANYONE would think prefilling oil filters is bad amazes me!!😅
Thanks for sharing!
@@GeorgeSanford-pb1yj Very true. I used to not believe pre-filling could damage my engine. I was cocky, so I did an experiment. I did an oil change and deliberately picked a tiny spec of dirt off the ground, about the size of a flake of black pepper, and put it in the filter while I pre-filled it. Then when done, I started the engine, and sure enough, after 10 seconds, the engine exploded. I studied all the parts and every bearing in the engine was completley wiped out. Now when I change oil, I do it as if I was working on the space shuttle.....clean room, complete body suit with respirator face mask. And no more pre-filling!
No oil at all will do it faster.@@GeorgeSanford-pb1yj
BS!
@@jeffro221
It amazes me tooo !!! ! !!! But, this is obviously Just Because they Are sooo Lazy, or Careless , or Greeddy !!! ! !!!
Been changing my own oil for 20 years. Always filled the filter before install. Never was told to do so, never heard to to do it, I just did it. Glad I have.
Glad to help
I'm 56 and been doing it for 39 years ...Do you know why you and I have been doing this for so long and were never told to do it? Cause we are not dumb. So to all you young dumb people out there that think your reinventing the mouse trap, If it comes off the motor with oil in it, don't you think you should put the new filter back on the same way you took it off? And for all you that think the new oil is dirty till it goes through a new filter,....You are just a special kind of stupid, aren't you. My God ! young people are Dumb ! As the saying goes, "Youth is wasted on the young"
And how much actually stays in the filter before you get it tightened 😮lol if its mount upside-down 😂😂😂❤
@@frankorobinson1540Bro you obviously just flip the car over in that case 🙄
@@christians131 actually you can just crank the engine over with ignition coil fuse out crank until red oil light goes out and good to go .but flipping the car over works too lol
I am a master technician, I've been around engines for the past 50 years and I agree FULLY with the practice of pre-filling a new oil filter prior to installing it. Best practice. Where possible (as on your SB Chevy V8). If it's a factory upside down cartridge or sideways mount, you're just out of luck.
But looking back at all the engines I have serviced, repaired and diagnosed, there has not been ONE major engine (bearing) failure due to doing scheduled maintenance without pre-filling the filter. It's just moot. The small wear on the babbit of the bearing surfaces during the initial start has no siginificance on the engine lifespan. When all is said and done, major engine failures are caused by overheating, unfrequent oil changes and mechanical failures caused by incorrect fuel / air ratios and other problems causing an upset in normal engine operation outside of manufacturer's specs.
This goes for your normal car or light truck engine. Race engines operate at much more demanding specs and other, stricter rules apply.
Again, I fully agree with your video content, but the relevance in view of the actual engine life span is not given.
my 7.3 diesel pickup has a huge oil filter. It would not be a moot point to run that motor with no oil pressure while waiting on that filter to fill.
@@heightsgolan8742 It is moot as far as the overall longevity of the engine is concerned - this is from half a century of experience in engine service. But if it eases your mind, you can pre-fill your filter to your heart's content.
@@gonefilming2020 eases my mind?? You just admitted " the small amount of wear in start up".
So maybe ease your own mind since no oil pressure for several seconds is a moot point and rev the snot out of it before oil pressure.
My first rebuild was in 1969 on a car. But many small engines and one motorcycle starting in 1965.
So, I have seen much in my OVER 50 years of EXPERIENCE. So many main bearing knocks and rod knocks. Too many to count. So it DOES EASE my mind to see oil pressure right away. I guess you get a thrill out of seeing that red light in the dash stay on as long as possible.
Oh yeah, lets purposefully let that 2 qt filter on my diesel slowly fill while the crank is without oil. It don't matter.
@@heightsgolan8742 Woah, dude. You off your thyroid medication? Of course you also have OVER 50 YEARS EXPERIENCE. And of course your experiences are sliced bread as opposed to mine. Nowhere did I say to "...rev the snot out of it before oil pressure" or that I "get a thrill out of seeing that red light in the dash stay on as long as possible".
You did not get the intent of my post. Perhaps read things so many times over, until you can follow the content. Or have someone explain it to you.
And it's perfectly o.k. to have a different opinion - no need to discredit others, because only your opinion counts.
Perhaps find someone to give you a hug. Everything will be o.k.. Promised. 🤗
@@gonefilming2020 amen bro. thanks
Thank you. I very recently got a new GX550, after watching your videos, I instantly change the oil at 1600 miles. I am sure you have increased the engine life.
I have been prefilling filters since I was at least 16 or 17 on all of mine and my family's cars that I maintain. From age 16 to 21 I worked at a full service Texaco station. Every oil change I did there I prefilled the filters. I am so glad you did this video if for no other reason it backs up what I all ready knew.
Too bad for those engines with sideways canister filters that can’t be pre filled
@@quonsetthehutt3105you can still prefill those kind of filters by priming the car
Yet in 45 years of wrenching I have never heard of or know anyone that did this. Not cutting it down, but it is not that common as you think.
Is not necessary to prefilled them anyways people been doing them for years they have no problems
For every story I hear from prefilled I hear another for not filling with the same result. The similarity is changing your oil on time with good quality oil.
Guys, finally we have scientific and empirical approach to the oil topic, not just opinions of sofa specialist who express their opinions and those are true because they do so. Please make new videos more often. Your content is super terrific and useful.
This type of knowledge is nothing new in the industry, oil analysis etc., was there for last 40-50 years. But somehow this is "new" to many people, especially in the automotive field. No one has an obligation to educate internet trolls.
@@GrandePunto8V Well ain't you a ray of fkn sunshine. Dude - EVERYONE has an obligation to educate internet trolls. Your way of thinking is the polar opposite of what it should be.
"sofa specialist" 🤣Love that! There are so many. I call them "armchair experts".
@@InexplicableBill I believe his/her way of thinking is no education is good education. 🤪
@@GrandePunto8V Nobody is saying oil analysis is new, but in this video it shows that new oil out of the bottle is cleaner than when it came out of and engine without filling the oil filter with oil prior to installation and after the system has been primed. It's showing the trolls that there is engine damage (crank main bearings and connecting rod bearings) due to not pre filling the oil filter. If this information is not put out there for the general public to know, then how are people to learn right from wrong. Everytime I sell and oil filter I inform my customer they should fill it with oil prior to installation and I explain why. They usually say if they do it will leak out when they install it because most of them are sideways on motorcycles. I tell them while the engine is warming up fill the filter with clean oil and let it sit and when it comes time to install it, it would have absorbed most of the oil and you're only going to lose maybe a table spoon.
I REALLY like this topic:
The home mechanic doing an oil change can also test this for themselves:
Time how long it takes for the oil pressure to come on from when you crank the engine, when:
1/ new oil filter is pre-filled,
2/ new oil filter installed without oil.
I know for a fact that it takes longer for the oil pressure switch light to go out.
So of course I always pre-fill.
I can’t believe people would think new oil would have particulates that could harm the engine without going through the oil filter first!
It needs to get dirty FIRST!
That’s serious overthinking right there, LOL 😂.
Oh my...so glad I found this video. Back in my early 20s (I'm 45 ATM) I worked in Walmarts TLE and none of us, literally none, prefilled. Never even crossed our minds. My God, every vehicle I serviced, including my own, were done improperly. Ugh...
I’ve been filling my filters since the 80s. I saw an article about it, and it made a lot of sense to me. I have a Chevy small block, so it works well. Even though now it’s running a remote filter mount, that is vertical, I still fill my filters. My street car has a vertical filter mount, and you can bet that I still fill it. I believe that otherwise, there’d be a huge air bubble that would cause some damage in starting the engine
When you say vertical... do you mean the filter screws down on the post or up? Most filters are vertical... or slightly diagonal, but screw upward from below. I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea of pre-filling an oil filter but then turning it over to mount it... 😱😱
The thing is, there's always an air bubble, the pickup tube drains when you empty the oil pan and there's also still some air space in a pre-filled filter. This test was flawed because they did not test how long it takes to get pressure after draining the engine and installing a pre-filled filter, it takes more time than an already primed engine. I still think you should pre-fill the filter, but you don't get instant oil pressure like they tried to demonstrate in this video.
@@Enword_JimRight on... underrated comment!
Another tip for funnel storage, keep it upside-down with the openings covered. Small opening up leaves less chance of junk entering the funnel.
I store mine in a gallon Ziploc bag. I also label the bag with the type of fluid the funnel is used for.
I wipe mine off and toss them in the dishwasher with the next load of dishes. Dishwasher detergent makes short work of oil.
Just hang mine on the wall until next time. 😂
I’m just recently going back to doing my own oil changes and I used to always prefill. The idea is you are allowing as little air into the pump as possible so it pressurizes as fast as possible. It’s weird this is even a debate. Even if it served no other purpose than piece of mind I’d still do it. It adds maybe 30 seconds of work to the job.
@@Willheheckaslike-d4h But the entire system needs pressure regardless of if it’s downline or upstream from the pump. Air anywhere in the system causes pressure to drop, right?
@@Willheheckaslike-d4hIt's not so much "air in the pump", but the filter will obviously be full of nothing but air if you don't fill it first, and those few seconds it takes to pump the filter full of oil means that the engine is running with ZERO oil pressure, and the engine suffers a bit of wear from it. That little bit of damage DOES accumulate over time, and takes precious life off the engine.
@user-uv7up4vg6i That oil left in the bearings is basically useless without pressure behind it. It's a proven fact that up to 90% of engine wear happens during start-up, when there isn't any pressure in the system. If oil sitting in the bearings was enough to protect the engine, we would use it, instead of a much more expensive special clingy, thick, assembly lube when we build an engine.
What about vehicles with oil filters that go on sideways 🤷. So it's not going to be fully filled.
@@guytowers8479 You still put oil in it. just enough before it wants to spill out. Anything is better than nothing.
I was taught to fill the oil filter at oil change, but had a father with all answers to questions because I told you so or something like that idiom. Thanks for facts and information.
I always pre-fill the filter three times. When I let it sit between fills I can see the level go down as it soaks into the filter material. Thanks for all the great info.
In my experience there is absolutely no benefit to prefilling the filter with oil. Assuming your oil pump is working normally, it will fill that filter in a few seconds and away you go. I've been doing my own oil changes for 50+years and I always keep my cars a long time. Never had a problem. And if your filter is mounted horizontally, how are you going to prefill it???
@@MrPLC999did you watch the video? Have you actually tried pre-filling a filter that's mounted side ways?
It's actually still pretty easy. I do the same method as Jake above. Just fill it, let it soak into the filter, fill it again and it'll still absorb a lot, then on the final fill I just fill it about 1/2 way (filter is now pre-soak and is 1/2 full of oil that's free to get pumped to the oil galleys) then I just reach down and turn it sideways and spin it onto the oil filter adapter.
@@MrPLC999 And in that few seconds of non-lubricated running you're scraping metal off the bearings, cylinder walls, and piston rings, and with the newer engines you're also wearing down the camshaft castings in the heads that have no bearings and depend strictly on the oil film to keep them from rubbing together. Fill the filter.
@@bobmorgan1575 You are forgetting the oil film. It is not dry nor non-lubricated. Use a quality synthetic oil and you will have zero issues.
Thanks! I never pre-filled my filters in the past (not because of thinking it was a bad thing, just lack of knowledge), but will from now on!
Same!
As an automotive machinist ( 40 years)I can say with complete confidence you don't have to pre fill the filter. A ton of modern engines have filters that are either horizontal or vertical ( upside down) that have zero issues not being pre filled.
@@petemcpeterson6205 Why not flipping the car upside down, or put it on its side for models with filters not facing down?
@@petemcpeterson6205 So just what is your point?
@@kotjmf1968 what is yours ?
I am a newer tech and I have not been pre-filling oil filters, wasn't even something that came up in school or around the shop. After seeing this video I am going to start doing this! Thank you for posting this.
Now imagine, that there are literally hundreds of such little things you don't know about the trade.
Makes perfect sense. Although I have not practiced it. Now, with my 2016 colorado, I couldn't if I tried. Cartridge filter on top of engine. My car's filter is cannister. But extremely tight space and on the slant. Have to turn filter a couple of angles to get where it's going . Days of V8 with cannister are pretty much over.
🤦wow
Hopefully this shows you how much your schooling lacks for proper education of practicing the trade correctly. As a ASE Master Engine Builder, plus other titles, 33 year owner of automotive machine shop, look at books used in classes to see horrible statements and massive lacking of information required for the tech to be successful.
I think my 29yo 1994 Toyota truck with 442K miles doesn't care, I have never prefilled my filter, 7 minutes per oil change with filter, and 5 minutes without filter (I change the filter every other time). Half a year to 30, no major work done, still running well.
Fantastic video, hopefully you save a LOT of barrings!!! The reasons I am 1000% for doing my own oil changes is so that I can #1 let all of the oil drain I tend to let it drain for like 20 minutes, #2 I always pre-fill the oil filter. #3 I use better oil and filter. I use OEM filter which actually tends to be cheap like motorcraft for Ford is like $7 or $8, For Mercedes I use the OEM German MANN filters which I can find for like $10. All those oil change places ripping you off with $16 and $20 oil filters... AND I get to use better oil or my choice of oil. #4 I make sure the oil level is perfect, I have had over filled oil so many times in the past.
THE ONLY ISSUE with doing your own oil changes is forgetting when you did it!!!!! Get roll of oil change stickers so you can write down and stick it on the windshield and not forget.
I can't believe people would think pre filling a filter is a bad thing. I know what the ISO cleanliness numbers mean so I'm glad you touched at the end the difference in particles with the code number increase - im sure many out would be thinking the increase is only a couple of numbers, but each increase is actually doubling the number of particles
Absolutely! Thanks for mentioning that!
It boggles the mind, doesn’t it?! I don't know what some People are thinking these days?
I don’t think people are saying it’s a bad thing, I’ve only seen the argument that it’s unnecessary.
I'm so glad that I don't Google things like, "should I pre fill an oil filter," because after 60 plus years of working on engines, I know that I should pre fill the oil filter. I know that the oil going into that filter is not "dirty," and I also know that most people are idiots.
LOL
💯
Found the snowflake lib that voted Biden
yyyuuuppp
Hope you didn’t dislocate your shoulder while tapping yourself on the back😂
You'd be surprised of how many dealer mechanics and lube places skip that part. Filling the filter. I know first hand mechanics who told me they don't bother with it because of the extra time it takes. It's not them worrying about contaminated oil. Part of why I will always change my own oil.
those are speed oil changes,,the faster the more money they make,,they could care less about your car
Thanks for sharing!
You think anybody working on your car is deeply concerned about it. It's just a job to them regardless of where you go@@robertswift6101
You think that a mechanic is not pushing cars in and out as fast as he can to make the most money for himself.@@robertswift6101
exactly! @@robertswift6101
I've been doing it the way you guys recommend all my life, and all of my engines ran and performed perfectly. Thanks for a great and educational video!
Also if motor oil was dirty from the bottle how would small engines like lawn mowers and generators survive since they are splash lubricated with NO oil filter!
Great point!
Or type 1 Volkswagen engines
They fail at 500 hours, far short of the 10,000 fir a modern engine
Not to mention, how do you fill your engine with pre-filtered oil? You don't, that's how. Bottle straight into the engine oil fill.
@turbodog99 At 500 hours hmm? I wonder how my 25 year old walk behind John Deere is still chugging along, starts first or second pull even after sitting all winter 🤔
Two points -working on and/or restoring vehicles and heavy equipment for 50 yrs I can't imagine that the oil out of the can is worse for your engine than the dirty oil you just removed from the crankcase. On some engines the flow is less the the diameter of a pencil with not a heck of a lot of GPM. I've always prefilled the filter and most of my machinery is from the 1950's with all ORINGINAL engines!
I have filled the filter on my 91 460 gas for 25 years, 440 thousand miles. I still drive it now. No rattle, no smoke, no other complaints.
I have never prefilled my filter over 40 years with the same car but I don't see any problem. I don't think it will make any difference no matter what we do.
@@tswvxyastswvyeej5510 I agree with you. My Silverado is 19 years old. Never pre-filled the oil filter. No engine problems.
@@tswvxyastswvyeej5510 Gee I might go out and unscrew my filter, drain it out then put it back on just for laughs.
I considered prefilling my filters back in the day but my car at the time had a filter that screwed on from the top down. Sweet video. Love that you are addressing maintenance nuances like this.
Great video. As a retired aircraft mechanic it is wild to think anyone would recommend not pre filling. Unless someone is cleaning the filter housing area thoroughly prior to removing the filter, more contamination would come from there than a new bottle of oil.
I pre filled a filter and crawled under my truck, careful not to spill the oil, then bumped the fuel line and got sand all over the filter !! Back to the auto parts store for a new one !!
@@TIMEtoRIDE900 Good filters come with a plastic seal cover and you can reinstall it after prefill then remove it when you are in position to install it onto the engine. It's best to rinse clean the area of dirt and debris prior to service to prevent any contamination.
You should be fired if you are doing something in the maintenance routines that the manufacturer does not tell you to do. That is how you get people killed. If it tells you to fill it, fill it. If it doesn't tell you to fill it, don't.
This is why I don't fly in GA shitboxes
@@malcomreynolds4103 Sure - now explain how people are actually "killed" by pre-filling an oil filter where the manual says "don't bother" - - - ??
For 30 yrs I have always prefilled my oil filters and I don't think I will ever stop doing it that way.
Is it really a bad thing to not pre fill the filter? I’ve never pre filled a filter.
Aaammmeeennn , Me Tooo !!! ! !!!
@@bustjanzupan1074And me.
It's not hard and it does save those golden seconds on first start.
Anyone who argues different is just dumb.
@churchyandfriends you can damage your engine quicker
I’ve always filled mine up with almost as much oil as they can hold on vertical or slightly angled filters. On horizontal mount ones, I add enough oil to be able to rotate it and soak the filter material without any running out.
Agreed. This is what I do. If I can't fully fill a filter because of the angle, I figure wetting the filter media is the best I can do.
Realistically, that's probably half full of the oil has time to saturate and pass through to the unfiltered side. Far better than nothing.
I got mechanics certificate in 1982 after leaving school. I have been building, modifying and servicing engines my whole life. I'm 61 years old as I write this. I have retired from working now but still service and maintain my families cars including a engine with over 1.3 million miles on the clock. It's serviced every 5000 miles and I always prefill the new oil filter on all the engines I look after.
The reason I prefill the filter is the amount of time it takes the engine to reach its maximum oil pressure before the engine fires to life. It is the best advice I can give anyone who wants their engine to last a long-time.
This video just confirms I have been doing the right thing.
"If it came out with oil, then it will go in with oil."
- My father
Well said!
Mad respect to yo Pops😂
@@karlpayne9069i cant listen to this fellow screeching😮
that is a killer line from your pop!! Blessings!
@MRworldEtikA;
And look; here you are!
Right out of your Father
That made sense years ago 💪💪💪
It’s not just about oil starvation on initial startup. Pre filling the filter saturates the media and on startup the DP across the filter is lower in a full filter than in a dry filter. It also minimizes air in the oil.
Exactly, even with side mounted filters, I will fill the oil filter as much as I can to wet the filter media as much as possible, and pour out the excess if theres too much, for that exact reason.
Right on!
@@ratgreen sure you can, maybe not plumb full, but just because it's on a bit of an angle you can still get quite a bit in them. Some of the older Ford's it was real easy, they were pretty much vertical. One of my older pickups has an oil cooler with a horizontal remote mount for the filter. I can get it 2/3rds -3/4 ish full then hold it vertical and quickly tip it horizontal and spin er on. You don't lose much oil.
when I had spark engines , I used to pull the disturbor cap to keep the engine from starting up and spin the engine 3-4 times to fill the filter and then replace the cable and then start the engine. I know that was being paranoid but that would prevent any oil starvation issue, but to be fair that was being overly parnoid. Newier cars and diesels you can do what I'm suggesting.
@@ratgreenOn a side mount filter I do that too, except I totally fill the filter first until all air is purged, then hold horizontal until the level stabilises, then screw it on (with the a thin film of oil on the rubber of course).
I've ALWAYS pre-filled my oil filters. Been doing it that way for the last 55yrs, and I've always changed my oil myself. I didn't need anybody to tell me that, it was just obvious. For the last 25yrs I've been using FilterMags on my oil filters, too. If everybody could see how much ferrous dust those magnets can pick up out of the oil and hold it until you replace the filter, they'd be using neodymium magnets on their (metal bodied)filters, too. Maybe you could do a scientific test of that, and cut open a filter and show viewers that, also.
probably a good idea for crappy blocks. when you inspect for metal- inspect for stray casting sand in the filter media while youre at it and you'll see that GM blocks are the WORST
You still got lublication on bearing when you start it up since you just had it running before you change the oil . I saw a boy one time changing oil, had the oil out, decided to move the car off the rack and put it back on the rack for some reason, never hurt the vehicle one bit, a fact, Than he put the oil in it, filter was already on it, owner seen him do that. LOL No, did not hurt the car, owner of the dealership knew it did not hurt the car, it was a Chevey Impala . By the way, I never did fill up oil filters on any car , not even my NIssan Altma and it has 151,000 miles on it now , and I done thousands of oil changes on state police cars as a head mechanic, , it still has lublicant on the bearing, and it will fill the oil fifter right up fast , never had a problem with it , NEVER , after changing oil in hundreds of police vehicles for over a decade . Don't rev it up until it picks the oil up you understand. LOL Only problem I ever had with those Dodge cars where cam shafts on those 318 motors would go out or those police would get the car hung up and rev it up wide open back and forth until they blow a hole in the piston . Now those real old police cars that had the 440 motors in them, it could have a dead cylinder on that piston and he can ran it like that also , LOL it would still do 140 mph with one dead cylinder and run smooth as pie, yes that is a fact . LMAO
Thank you so much for making this video. People are so misinformed and so stubborn about it
Glad it was helpful!
I always pre-fill my filters, even the ones are mounted sideways, I just get them as full as I can without spilling any oil because some oil is better than none.
I’ve always been told people don’t like to pre-fill filters because they’re worried about stuff falling into the filter like a sloppy mechanic would do. But I always make sure I’m in a clean environment without dust floating around and I’m always very mindful of anything that could get inside the filter before I install it so it’s really a non-issue unless you’re a sloppy mechanic.
Thanks!
Yes, I think maybe they install the dry filter before removing the plastic wrap just to avoid any chance of contamination.
I hate the my Subaru had an upside down filter. Made it easy to change, but could not be prefilled.
I fill the filter "as full as I can" on my side mounted John Deere Yanmar diesel engine also!
Very good comment jeff! I pre fill my filter inside, away from my workshop, and cover the filter as I take it out to the vehicle, and immediately install it. COMMON Sense after all.
Never really thought if oil changes this way. I was raised with just lubricate the o-ring and throw it on. Never asked any questions. Video came up cause I've been watching oil videos cause I want to take better care of my current vehicle and now I have a new way of changing oil. Thanks for the information!
Back in the 1970s, I was told to fill the oil filter when you can, but of course some engine installations make this impossible with horizontal or even upside down mounting, and with paper insert filters also.
But a trick I worked out for myself was to prevent the engine firing on first cranking after an oil change before the oil pressure came up. Easier in older engines as you can remove the connection between the coil and the distributer cap or leave the engine stop out [on a diesel] till the old pressure comes up.
On modern engine this is much harder or even impossible to do where the ignition electrics have to be properly connected for the computer logic to allow for cranking in the first place or the diesel stop is activated with the electrical services inside the diesel pump.
That is backwards progress!
Nice video, thanks.
Best wishes from George in UK.
George ,Thanks for your reply . Another option is to fill the new filter with oil ,let it soak up as much oil as it can , then empty the excess back into the container .
If you measure the before and after oil levels ,you will be surprised at how much it actually absorbs .
@@Crosley3251 Absolutely!
Thanks from George
@@Crosley3251 Yes that's what I did on my Volvo C70, where the oil filter is literally upside-down, so decided to soak the filter element first, did the same with the fuel filter, even though that was in the conventional set-up, still soaked it then half filled the container before screwing it back, the engine started and ran without a hiccup !
And, most modern vehicles have a flood clearing mode- hold gas pedal to the floor before and while cranking- in this mode no fuel is injected while the pedal is fully depressed.
I'm glad you talked about this. I always have such a time filling the filter with a 5 quart bottle without getting it everywhere. I still wasn't sure it wasn't a new guy hazing thing I never caught up with.
When I was younger I was taught to add a little oil, about an ounce in the filter and swish it around to wet the filter material and prevent any damage to the dry filter when oil starts coming in under pressure. That and to put some oil on the seal to prevent seizing, which I'm fairly sure everybody does.
Yeah, but that's not enough. Pour more.
Filter material does not get damaged by oil flow whether it is wet or dry.
Pressure can damage a new oil filter. The quality has fallen badly in recent years.
@@jimdunne1900 if you are using that bad of a quality oil filter on your engine, the filter will fail regardless of wet or dry and you kind of deserve what you get for using a cheap-ass Chinese shit filter. Genuine filters have no problems whatsoever, wet or dry.
The same people that don't prefill the oil filter are the same ones that change their oil with engine cold and leave moisture and other contaminates in engine
Many decades ago I started pre-filing my oil filters. Even if they were horizontal I pre-filled them. Always waited to let the filter medium soak up the oil and then add some more. Even if I lost a bit on a horizontal filter when installing that is the best I can do. Anyhow what I noticed after I began pre-filling the oil light gauge will immediately go off vs not pre-filling where it took a 2 or 3 seconds to go off. That is all the proof I needed to show I was getting oil to my bearings faster with a pre-fill. This video proves that I have been doing it correctly for a long time now.
It is so smart to let the oil filter sponge up some oil n then you tilt it and spin it on sideways or upside down as in 12 cylinder Italian powerhouses such as Ferrari Bugatti pagani Lamborghini Fiat Alfa Romeo Lancia Maserati.
just imagine the amount of life your losing per oil change not prefilling, over the course of a cars life, what 10 miles of wear, lmao, I drove 100 miles with out oil in 2 miles stints and then finally could afford oil and car make it 100,000 miles after that until tranny went out
Doesnt matter at all. The oil light being on for a couple of seconds after oil change means nothing. But always good to be on the safe side. Sincerely, a mechanic.
I just stumbled across your channel and really enjoy the details and testing you perform. I’m very oil change conscious and a little ocd with my engines, I can’t tell you how many folks will argue about oil, brands, intervals and even viscosity . lol.
Good job guys, I’m a new subscriber
Thanks for the sub!
I have always pre-filled my oil filters since early 70's, a mechanic at the time showed me. I have an original '64 327 365 hp Sting Ray with the original big canister filter set-up, I always prefill that as far as I can before it might spill over. Now I also have a Cadillac CT6-V with a twin turbo Blackwing engine, which is a very high tech engine. The spin on filter spins on at a 45 degree angle which means oil will spill out when you tip to install. What I do is fill about 2/3 full, tilt the filter in my hands while rotating it. This allows the clean oil to fully saturate the filter material. You can see the level of oil level go down in the filter as it soaks into the material. Now I pre-fill more oil into the filter up to the level it will almost spill out at the angle needed to spin the filter onto the engine. When its time to start that 550hp, 640 lb. ft. LTA engine I have the oil pressure screen showing on the DIC screen. I can see an indicated 40 psi pressure in under 2 seconds doing it this way! Bravo guys for showing everyone what I have been experiencing for many years!
Thank you!
Great analysis! Seeing the delay in oiling when the filter isn't pre-filled confirms something I always knew, but never went to the trouble of testing myself. But even the slight delay of a regular cold start is unacceptable! Installed an Accusump oil accumulator with solenoid valve wired to the ignition, so when the key is turned "on", engine oil is pressurized to 30-35 PSI - before the engine cranks. Even with this pre-oiling system in place, I still pre-fill my filters every oil change. Best practice!
Thank you!
Wouldnt it only delay oiling the first start after putting on new filter
@@SoulDelSol pre oiler does not delay oiling. It pumps oil into the galleries (and filter) before cranking the engine.
On all Subarus, the oil filter is mounted top side upside down for easy service. That means every time your vehicle is started, that oil filter has no oil in it. This is not a problem. As an engineer, the oil film needed for lubrication is measured in microns, and all your engine components remain covered in a film of oil meaning friction is not an issue. The reason you put so many quarts in is because the oil is also cooling and the big reservoir dilutes contaminants and lasts longer, but an engine starting isn't going to be damaged by a second of low oil pressure, as it has plenty of film on it for lubrication and heat buildup takes time.
@@BoopSnoot they address this in the video at 5:35, and their oil analysis confirmed that metal/metal contact was occurring on dry starts. I agree that with day-to-day starting oiling is sufficient, but particularly on starts after winter storage, or even a week of non running, I'd rather have pre-oiling than not. And remember that pre-oiling is only a side benefit with the Accusump - it's main purpose is provide up to 3 quarts of buffer while running, in case of a pump failure or extreme cornering Gs.
Great video! I don't know why anyone would question prefilling an oil filter. Even common sense tells you the sooner you oil the engine, the better.
Exactly!
As a long time gear head, son of a lifelong mechanic, and auto enthusiast with their own DIY repair channel, I absolutely can't believe the stupidity of people sometimes. Thank you for debunking this myth I've never even heard of. Next thing you know we'll hear that you should under inflate your tires to increase mpg and reduce tire wear.
Not necessary but couldn't possibly hurt...some filters are installed horizontally.
New oil is clean.
In horizonal filters, at the very least, pre-soak the filter medium to the point of saturation, it's amazing how much oil is required to do this.
@peghead why not simply follow the manufacturers recommendation.... which in most cases means it's doesn't matter.
@CJRock-xn5qf lol. I have a 3.5 eco-boost f150 2012,, horizontal filter, I change oil every 10,000km, I never pre-fill, soak or fool around, just dump the oil, change the filter and dump in 6 litre of oil and fire it up and idle for a minute. 362,000km, it never uses enough oil to bother adding between oil changes. People making mountains of bs out thin air. I agree with you.
@@CJRock-xn5qfBecause the manufacturer only cares about the vehicle lasting through the warranty period. If you plan on keeping a vehicle for awhile, why not do everything you can for longevity
@RedlineMaximaSE It's not like 10k mi. Oil changes. Now what do you do with vertical filters and those mounted open side down. Then there's canister style that can't be prefilled.
Years ago putting your filters on dry was pretty much a non-issue. No one gave it much thought. I knew guys from both sides and it didn't seem to have much effect on the engine's life. However, with the advent of multi-viscosity oils that old method went to hell in a hand basket. When Cummins brought out the Big Cam engines there was a sharp increase in camshaft/follower failures. Cummins soon found out that many failures occured shortly after an oil change. What few operators realized was that the multigrade oils got so thin that when the drain plug was pulled that 8+ gallons of oil, which now had the viscosity of black coffee, rushed out with such a fury that it siphoned out the lube system. Refilling with fresh oil plus installing the filters dry took many seconds to refill the oil galleries. There was an advisory to fill the filters before installation. A second advisory was to not change the oil hot but to let the engine cool down for an hour before pulling the plug. "For the extra three cups of old oil left in the galleries, the new filters should take care of that." Close quote. After following that advice engine failures amost stopped completely...
They should come with pre-lube systems from the factory.
It's a galley (or valley), NOT a "gallery".
I'm not buying the "oil rushes out SO fast that it's siphoning the oil galleys out"...
How could that even HAPPEN if the oil cap is off the engine?? 🤔
There could be NO vacuum if the cap is off, as it would just draw air in through the huge hole in the engine where the cap was... 🤦🏻
Edit: The issue of worn lifters/followers in other engine designs (such as the Mopar Pentastar V-6) has to do with the design of the oil filter system, and it draining back to the pan when the engine is shut off, and then the engines starting dry every time they are started for a few seconds. It's a known problem.
I suspect the CAT issue was similar... also, the failures wouldn't happen "Right after an oil change". It would take a while to wear out
I have always pre-filled. I don't know where I learned it. I am 73yrs and do my own changes. Once time when I was 19 or 20 and I was in a hurry to get on a roadtrip I had one of those fast lube places do the change. They misaligned the filter, the oil drained out, and burned up the engine. They tried to get out of replacing the engine, but were overheard by a family friend and our attorney got me a brand new engine. I do the changes in our 93 Camry, 92 4Runner, and my 99 Dodge Ram/5.9 Cummins. And I always prefill the filter.
I've always prefilled. I feel like anyone who understands how an oil pump, and oil pressure / lines / fluid mechanics works would instinctively know that pre filling will always make sense. I've only ever heard 'its a waste of time' from people who dont understand how things work, or lack the ability to think ahead, or are hacks who dont care about anything.
Right on!
I guess people who design engines for a living don't have a clue about engine lubrication and the people who make oil filters are idiots also. However, some goof ball in silly glasses has all the right answers.
@@lukew2194 Actually YOU are correct. Those folks are 'compartmentalized' and know very little outside of their specialty.
Really? What about large filters? Running the engine for seconds longer with low/no oil pressure can't be good. Filling the filter can't hurt and surely must benefit the engine. People who design engines agree with pre-lubing. Racers do it all the time. Pre-lube kits can be installed on engines. You throw a switch before starting the engine and the oil is pressurized BEFORE starting. Dry starts are NEVER good! @@lukew2194
Indeed!
Pre filling the filter out of the bottle is no different than pouring out of the bottle into the engine, I have always pre filled my filters whenever possible. Good video, thanks.
Thanks!
Ok. But that doesn't really do anything because when the Dungeness movie and it's getting lubricated anyway.
Great video guys!
I ALWAYS prefill my filters with oil. And you just proved why you should!
I have two Subarus, and I never prefill the filter on those. I would need to turn the car upside down to do it...😊
Makes sense. Although i have never prefilled a filter. Never had any problems noticable enough to worry about.
Not prefilling your filter will accelerate wear by 3x
@@2seep BS. I have never prefilled any filter in 50 years. Many many cars. NEVER had one engine bearing failure. My 2004 Pilot has 300k miles - no issues.
@@2seep That is BS. Pulling numbers out of your butt is not a positive character trait.
Thank you both for taking the time and effort to make this information available to us. I realize most people may not have an issue with this, but every time both of you were talking at the same time, I had a hard time understanding what either one was saying. Letting a person finish their sentence will only improve future videos.
That constant interrupting, to say something inconsequential, makes for a video hard to watch.
@@warriormanmaxx8991 I agree. Hard to understand
Did not notice this behavior at all.
I started changing oil way back in 1968 on my dads Electra and ended up doing many of my uncles cars before I got my first new car in 1974. Initially, never pre-filled those canister filters and always bothered me seeing the oil light come on and hearing the noise on the first initial start-up with the newly installed filter. Not sure WHY I waited so long to figure this out but starting in 1987, I finally started to prefil the filters on my cars and oil light goes out right away, again with no noise on initial startup. Back in the day, my dad and uncles only kept their cars and replaced them every 3 years but I keep my vehicles now a minimum of 10 years and never had any oil related issues pre-filling the canister filters before an install. And I seldom put on more than 3500 miles between changes (using dyno oil, not synthetic) and ALWAYS a new oil filter with each change. Changing the oil is probably one of the best things you can do as its the lifeblood of your car as far as Im concerned. Side note, Im not fond of FRAM filters, especially now that they are NOT made in the USA. I usually use OEM.
Thanks for sharing!
YES!!!
It makes sense to fill the filter/filters, pre-lube every part of the engine that is oil required when a repair, rebuild. The oil change is an important part of engine life, fill the filter first.
Question, sir.
Years ago, i started putting in a quart of fresh oil in my engine after draining the old oil. Wait for it to drain out. Then, complete the oil change. The theory is that you can remove more contaminants. Can you test this?
Thank you in advance.
I actually do the same thing, but I have never tested the process to see if it actually makes a difference.
Always pre-fill the oil filter if you can. It reduces the amount of time during that initial start the engine has low oil pressure from filling the oil filter itself.
Lol. Uhh no. The oil pump is way before the filter. It’s gonna build pressure regardless of rather the oil filter is full or not. Pre fill. Don’t pre fill. Doesn’t matter
Some filters set up straight and wont let you pre-fill.
@@garyalford9394 and some like the pentastar are upside down AND cartridge so they 100% just bleed back down to the pan a few minutes after you shut the engine off.
@Russel_russelson No. There is no pressure until the system is filled. There is flow, but not pressure. Watch the video again. You can't have pressure pumping fluid into an empty cavity. There is no oil to the bearings while the filter is filling from empty.
@@mback12000 I don’t need to. I have built engines for over 20 years. There is no pressure at the gauge sending unit because there isn’t any flow there. But the oil pump on ever engine is directly connected to the oil reservoir and builds pressure the second you start the motor. You can’t have “flow” if you don’t have any pressure to push the flow. Oil sending units are located on the top end usually
You noticed he dint show testing with a empty full filter? You know why? Because the time Result is the exact same. I have built and tested this multiple times.
A little tip, when I have an engine that I can't pre-fill the oil filter. I disconnect the ignition and crank the engine until I see oil pressure. Then I reconnect the ignition and start the engine.
I am a master certified Automotive Technician with 35 years of experience and I can tell you “when possible”, it is always a good idea to pre-fill your oil filter. For most automotive applications in the first few rotations the filter has been filled because it is so small, before the engine starts but the air pocket with still make its way through the system. I guess best way to rule of thumb it. The bigger your filter the more you want to put some oil in it if you can. There are some application that you simply can not fill the filter, oh well. Blame the engineers. Bottom line, I agree fill your filter when possible and change your oil every 5000 or 6 months which ever comes first.
Thanks for sharing
Thanks for a great video and the science behind it. I have been changing my oil for years and from now on I will be filing the oil filter.
I work on a car ferry. Our big cat V8s need to be pre lubed with a pump before starting. It can take up to 10 seconds for the oil to get to the top end of the engine. And you can hear the valves tick until oil gets into the top end. So it absolutely makes sense to fill up a filter. Just like it makes sense to pre-lube our big diesel.
What engine are you running in the ferries
I change the oil in my 2 cylinder lawn mower with a horizontal disposable canister and don't prefill. 25 years now and it's running just fine.
Lake almost mentioned it, but there's a reason filters have an inner seal. Maybe Lake can do a video on what it's for and why it's important.
And i loved how quickly the pressure came up with a full filter! it was quicker than I was expecting.
Equally to point: a prefilled filter that is newly installed, or an engine that's been sitting a while, won't have as much retained oil in the system as one that's been fully pressurized, shut off, and then run again a short time later. That last case is the only one they appear to have simulated. I would still expect the re-pressurization time to be shorter, but by how much? And what about with different oil pump styles, filter styles, and locations? There are a lot of variables to that question.
I've always prefilled oil filters and if equipped with a flood clearing function of the engine, held the accelerator all the way down while cranking the engine for a few seconds to allow the engine to build some pressure after the change. This is also the better method for cartridge style filters where prefilling isn't really possible.
Yea you can use flood mode on Fords. Not sure bout anything else. If you can't do that pull a fuse for the fuel pump.
I've only encountered 1 vehicle that didn't have flood mode but I can't recall what it was. I know my wife's 2016 BMW also has that feature and it's nice to have for it since it uses a cartridge filter.
Great suggestion!
Very good point, and valid.
What the heck, I didn't know about flood mode. Great tip. Would be crucial on Mercedes top-mounted cartridge filters.
Videos like this is why TH-cam is awesome. Keep up the great work.
great job guys.... Been changing my own oil for over 50 years.... Wish I had known about.prefilling filter.40 years ago....
Good show and advice! I've prefilled my filter with oil at oil changes even though my friend says he never does it. I didn't have proof of this benefit until I saw your video. Thank you so much for clearing this up, my friend😊
I'm happy to help!
I was a mechanic for 38 years and can’t tell you how many oil changes I’ve done, not only on gasoline engines but diesel engines as well and have always prefilled oil filters.
Not only pre filling engine oil filters but also pre filling fuel filters and hydraulic oil filters as well. Old school education and I’ve also taught this to my students when I taught a preventative auto maintenance class.
It’s only common sense.
BTW you now have a new subscriber and I thank you for setting this straight. Ron
The modern diesel world has a bit of a different view on pre-filling fuel filters, at least in marine applications. Per the spec and maintenance instructions on my Cummins QSC 8.3 and my QSB 6.7, they definitely spec to pre-fill the oil filters. But Cummins specifically warns NOT to pre-fill the fuel filters.
The reasoning ,per my local Cummins agent and others, is that modern common rail diesels have such small injector ports that you don't want any contamination. Filling a fuel filter effectively bypasses all the upstream filtering of usually 2 filters. In my case its a 20 micron Racor and the 2 micro on-engine filter. Unlike oil that's from a sealed container fuel is generally of unknown quality. Fuel can also have biological growth that would clog an injector. It's simple to prime the filter on a Cummins common rail: their own instructions call for just cycling the key to the "run" position a few times and letting the lift pump run to fill the filter. I know older engines require bleeding of air, but the Cummins common rails don't need it after just a filter change.
Even in my 1994 they told you to not prefill the fuel filter, same thing in a friend's 1992. What the manual says, is what you do. You don't deviate from it. Just because hacks that think prefilling an oil filter is helpful go away with prefilling other things, doesn't mean that it was ever correct.
In the case of my 1994, there was a bleed valve you used to allow the fuel pump to prime the system on its own. On my friend's 1992, there was a hand operated primer you used to prime the system. following the manual, is not difficult. Making up useless crap to do is far more effort
All you need to see in this video starts at 9:20. Pre-filled filter gives oil pressure sooner and is nearly like a fully primed oil circulation system. Easy!
Speaking for just over 50 years of owning Toyota’s and doing oil/filter changes every 3000 miles and NEVER prefilling the filters, each car had over 220,000 to 225,000 miles on them before I traded or sold them, all with excellent compression and very little oil burning between changes, never had excessive chain/sprocket wear, worn valve guides/stems etc. I am 74 now and still doing it the same way. Proof is in the pudding. Lots of wives tales out there along with poorly made engines and engines with poor care and neglect from their owners.
Kudos to Toyota
Same here with two Caravans that were near 300k before selling. Currently an Equinox and Malibu with over 200k and counting.
Nothing is always...you both beat the odds. But then again, knowing the science & data support prefilling the filter, how much less wear would have occurred had the system been properly primed and pre-filled?
@@dix_pack_of_sixie With respect to the Caravans it doesn’t really matter. I got my miles out of them. One of them went to 360k before a t-bone accident (no casualties) ended its run. Jury’s still out on the two Chevys.
Can’t say I’ve ever heard of an engine failing due to not pre-filling the filter. Most are from using oil not specified by manufacturer or not following recommended oil change intervals.
I'm 76 years old and I've been pre-filling filters since I was about 17 or 18 years old. Did that on a tip from a mechanic (older man) friend of mine. Just made sense to me.
Great research. To fill my engine and oil filters I use an plastic oil jug that is only ever used for clean oil and which has a large screw-on lid to cover the hole where you put the oil in and a flexible nozzle for dispensing the oil. The nozzle also has a lid that screws on and off. It cost £10 or about $12 (I'm in the UK).
You guys are an ISTP's dream! Thank you for the info.
I have started an engine after changing the engine oil and filter (empty). With the engine idling, there was a noticeable crankshaft bearing knock until the filter was full and oil pressure was established. The crankshaft bearings were all in good condition and not worn. When the filter was prefilled with clean engine oil, and the exercise repeated, oil pressure was reached within a couple of seconds. It makes sense to pre-fill the oil filter if you can. It makes no sense at all to start the engine with the oil filter empty if you don't have to.
If it's knocking it's shit anyway, oil filter full of oil doesn't fix worn out parts, only your imagination is satisfied.
If you keep changing the oil without pre oiling the filter, you will, sooner than later, experience Rod knock, or at least lifter wear. Always prelube the filter when changing oil in your engine!
@@RobertFord-z7n Ive worked at a lube shop. The newer cars knock the loudest.
Many vehicles some very expensive have cartridges filters and they are not pre filled.
And if the filter is horizontally mounted , you just disconnect the nozzles/jets , or ignition sensor , or at old diesels disconnect the gas-switch on the High Pressure fuel pump, and than crank it Untill the oil-pressure light turns off , And only After that , you Can start the engine Peacefully !!! ! !!!