Seiko 4R35 Movement Issues
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2024
- I purchased the Seiko Prospex SRPB55, known as the Samurai
Back in January 2018 for a cruise I was about to take. The watch served me well with its Seiko 4R35 movement. But I started to have some accuracy issues. I will explain and illustrate these problems and take you through the actions I’ve taken. But I’m looking for your input and guidance on how to proceed; if at all.
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So, after almost fifty years of collecting here are my thoughts for what they are worth.
Firstly, the movement can be purchased for around $50. It’s an unexceptional cheap mass made by machines movement. It’s just that with Seiko pricing its watches ever higher the value goes down when they don’t put movements in their watches commensurate with the prices they charge. This should be in a $150-$200 watch as that’s the level the cost and quality of the movement deserves and no more so that’s one issue, Seiko going silly with pricing but not improving quality on the hidden bits!
Secondly. The actually accuracy is pretty much well within spec for the movement so there is actually no issue in terms of the most important thing, specified timekeeping.
Thirdly, knowing more than you need to! And this is the modern Malaise of this hobby I feel.
Even ten years ago these timegraph machines would 99% of the time be only ever found in a watch repair shop.
You would be enjoying your watch and it’s within specs timekeeping and be none the wiser about beat error or amplitude and that’s really how it should be.
As long as the watch is keeping good time that really is all that should concern you for in fact I bet if you got hold of twenty of these movements then probably only one would have no beat error and good amplitude and that’s really how most cheap movements leave the factory they are built to a general spec and no tested at all as that adds to the cost!
As much as I love the watch repair channels here on TH-cam they create unrealistic expectations in terms of total accuracy. This is why one spends more on a watch for you should be getting tighter tolerances and more hand inspection and testing. It’s partly why a Rolex, Omega or other such watches cost more, more human contact checking the watch and even then problems can still slip through the net.
What your experiencing is normal, what is not normal is you knowing more than you need to about the cheap as chips movement in your watch and that increases expectations amongst watch enthusiasts which frankly are unrealistic unless you buy a Seiko or other mass made watch who decide to charge unrealistic premiums for mechanical watches just because it’s mechanical.
Funny thing is a Seiko solar quartz movement will probably cost more than this movement but people will not be prepared to pay more for it even though it’s far superior and why, because of the so called romance of mechanical and that’s the other problem in the modern watch collecting world.
This Seiko mechanical is not lovingly poured over by a wizened old watchmaker with a wooden bench or in a high tech environment like a Patek workshop. It’s machine made just like the quartz made in the next room, there is zero romantic about it other than the myth created by forums or makers!
Lastly, why do you think there was a quartz Revolution back when I was a child? For these exact reasons, they simply were and still are better, more reliable timekeepers!
I know I'm being picky about this. My real concern is that something is seriously wrong with the movement such that it will go bad and need to be replaced after the warranty runs out.
I have several affordable watches and some work great and some not so great. So I agree its the luck of the draw.
I am looking, if you've seen my other recent videos, for a luxury watch with greater attention paid to movement quality. Any suggestions?
Adventures With Time honestly, this is the issue with cheap mechanical movements but really it’s not a big deal if the movement goes wrong after the warranty as they can be obtained for around $50 from many watch parts suppliers and any independent watchmaker would take twenty minutes to swap them out. Truly, if this sort of thing worries you then get a quartz version as it will be more reliable and apart from battery changes nothing else will be needed. Get a solar and that issue goes as well!
But the trouble is even if you got a new movement there is no guarantee that the new one will perform any better. There is almost zero checking of these movements out of the factory which is why getting a higher end watch like the ones you are currently considering will have a better chance of less issues ( but still no absolute guarantee)
It’s the biggest issue with Seiko prices going ever upward but the quality ( or lack of) staying the same. The expectations are higher because we pay more for a watch worth in truth a quarter of what Seiko charge.
Honestly, the older I get the less inclined I am to get any cheap mechanical watch as they offer so little value in comparison to their quartz equivalents and for me both have the same levels of emotion as the movements in cheaper watches ( under $1500 generally) are pretty boring stock mass made by machines mechanical movements.
I would rather buy the quartz version for considerably less and not have any worries, I can stand the ticking hand.
Case in point, I’m considering one of the Victorinox INOX watches. The mechanicals around $900 where I live and the identical looking quartz around $450, a huge difference and quartz would be the way I would go as the mechanical movement in it is just a mass made by machine auto that requires a lot more attention such as winding if I don’t wear it for a few days.
If it was some elaborate grade with Chronometer spec it might be different but it’s not.
When you buy a mechanical watch it’s like buying a vintage car as opposed to a brand new one with quartz. It is fun but requires more fettling and care and has greater potential to go wrong especially when it’s a cheap mechanical.
Try not to get into the romance of mechanical, it’s utter tosh really with the low grade movements
I am mainly a vintage collector, I rarely buy new because pretty much every new watch in the low to mid level represents really poor value for what you get especially Seiko these days ( and I own a Grand Seiko so I’m not a Seiko hater). Every time I hold a new one I simply do not see the value in it and thankfully I no longer frequent forums so don’t get caught up in the hype which actually generates the purchase ( and then six months down the road flipping as the watch is not satisfying.
No, my advice for what it’s worth if you love watches. Under $1500 have a couple of new quartz watches, say a dressy one and a diver and a few vintage which is much more fun as for the price of a poorly made Seiko diver such as this one you can have a beautiful Longines vintage or such then save all the money you would have spent on multiple sub $1500 watches and lost money on said watches when you inevitably flip them as most do on a couple of really good quality chronometer grade higher end watches.
New lower end for me and all the micro brands who have zero history and in truth are just kit parts watches put together in China for the hipster Kickstarter kid who thought it would be great to have their own watch brand represent really poor value for money and offer very little emotionally, just look how many are flipped within six months of purchase, from my time on the forums I reckon that’s about 80%!
ianmedium great insight. Thanks
@@adventureswithtime The truth hurts. But keep the show on.
Your right, and wrong.
One of my seikos has gone like the one in the video, but my other...10yo and 0-2 sec a day.
Hi, from why I heard through many of watch makers . New Jersey’s service Center is absolutely horrendous!!! Thankfully I’ve never had to use them.
Thank you for your vids!
Thank you for confirming my impressions.
Thank you for your video mate, I love mechanical watches but I only have 2 of them and they are the cheapest two in the group.
The first one's Seiko5 sport snzh55 run well after 3 and 1/2 years and take the first service ( local watches repair) recently, and the accuracy was surprised me at -2sec/day! I been told that the 7s36 movement from Seiko is the best.
The second one is Bulova 98a165 skeleton watch run -2,5sec/day when out of the box with Miyota Japanese movement.
I think I'm so lucky to purchase 2 of the best without the blue like the one 4r35 movement that you mention. 😀
What are your other watches. Thanks for sharing.
@@adventureswithtime they were all middle range of Japanese quartz and solar watches, most of them too old for remembering the models number, but my daily beater watch :the one year old Citizen eco drive Aw1430-86e .😊
Sorry to hear about your predicament with the Samurai. My Blue Lagoon Samurai had performed flawlessly (between -0.5 to +0.8 seconds per day) since new until a few days ago. It started to slow down to about -12 seconds per day for no reason at all. To make sure that my Samurai has not been magnetized, I use my permanent magnetic compass and hover it over the watch and bracelets. But the needle barely moved, so the watch was not magnetized.
As I do not own a timegrapher, I could tell what the beat error looks like. Perhaps, instead of a watch, my next purchaser should be a timegrapher!
BTW, the 6R15 movement in my Alpinist (SARB017) has also been running erratically for a year and a half now. I have also noticed that the positional variances are quite drastic. As I do not wear my Alpinist often enough, I have decided to leave it alone for the time being.
As an aside, it is my experience that Miyota/Citizen movements (both 8000 & 9000 series) are way more stable and, once regulated, more accurate than Seiko movements I have encountered over the years.
Just my two cents worth...
Hope you can bring your Samurai back to good health soon...
I've never used a compass to test if a watch has been magnetized. What would the compass do if any part of the watch has been magentized?
Adventures With Time The part that is most susceptible to strong magnetism is the hairspring. If the hairspring is magnetized then more likely the watch case itself and movement parts would have also suffered the same fate. What I had done with my timepieces that had been magnetized was to demagnetized them using a $15 demagnetized I picked up from eBay. You may have to cycle the watch on the magnetized 2 to 3 times to bring the movement back to normal running condition. Don’t forget to, in addition to the compass test, also do a before and after measurement on your timegrapher.
Just my 2 cents worth!
One week later after adjusting multiple times the speed of the 4R35 in my King Samurai (SRPE35K1), I've finally hit the "sweet spot", and now it runs with only between +-5 to 10 sec. per day!
I highly recommend you do it yourself with your own wristwatch tools kit.
Nice work
Movement service will help you. I had, for example, dust on my balance. My watch had the same problems. After service +1 sec.p.d
The problem is that servicing an affordable watch like this doesn't seem economical. However, I did enjoy the process of replacing the movement myself even if that wasn't needed.
I've had he same issues with my alpinist. I've had it for about a a year and half now and its been running -30 seconds a day for quite some time now. It even stopped working a few weeks ago and then after about a week I picked it up and it began running again. I will admit I wore this watch a lot during my first year with it and at times my job can get a little rough. It was running about +6 seconds per day when I first purchased it. My most accurate watches I've owned have both been 7s26 movements. Skx013 and snk803. Both were running within +1 to +6 seconds a day. Alpinist is still my favorite though lol. I will be send it in for service soon though.
My Alpinist has also been running great over the past 2 years. It's a great watch.
uSUALLY WHEN IAM IN MY JOB UNDER ROUGHT CONTITION, I USE QUARTZ WATCH, SOME MOODED BY BE,,,, SO IF THEY HAVE ANY PROBLEM I WILL THROW IT AWAY OR I REPAIR IT BY MY SELF. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO USE A MECHNIC AND HIT ON THE WALL WHEN YOUR TIGHTNING FOR EXAMPLE SCREWS, OR WELDING...TO DO THAT WITH A MECHNIC WATH IS ASKING FOR TROUBLES...USUALLY I USE PLASTIC DIGITAL CASIOS...NO MOVING PARTS...GOOD SCHOCK RESITANT. BUT JUST IN THE JOB.WHEN IAM WORKIN.
Interesting video. My new Seiko 5 sports with the 4r36 movement is doing some strange things that my cocktail time with the 4r35 movement has never done. 🤔
Some have suggested that my watch was magnetized. I tried to demagnetize the old movement but it didn't seem to change the results.
@@adventureswithtime interesting. I thought this too. I fixed my 4r36 yesterday. Seiko left a screw a little loose causing the rotor to touch it.
I was looking for a video like this because I have a same problem, I tough that I just need to wind it. But it always happen. I bought mine a macys 2019.
I finally replaced the movement. It took me a couple of tires; which I documented in a playlist if you are interested. Thanks for watching (no pun intended).
Good morning, Bob. All I own are affordable watches, including a Samurai (Save The Ocean version). I don’t expect much when it comes to accuracy and will only get a timegrapher if I ever buy a higher tier, COSC certified watch.
Where did you get your Samurai’s strap? Did it come with it? I want to get a nice rubber strap for mine.
Zuludiver Tropical Rubber Strap
Adventures With Time Thanks, Bob!
You can also get a nice tropical or other rubber strap from Uncle Seiko.
Sherry Carpenter Thank you, Sherry!!!
Very nice video sir, im a fan of samurai seiko, to be honest im not expecting the accuracy to be super accurate from the 1st time i bought it, especially considering the price... i just went for the look, love the classic dial... so in my opinion, this watch perfect for a new automatic watch fans... like me.
How about seiko solar movement? Please make a video about solar movement watch... thank you.
Yes, I'm a bit too critical of this movement. I just want to understand more about what is going on with it.
I don't know much about the solar movements. I believe they are quartz which is not something I really like. I'm more of a traditional mechanical/automatic person. But you never know.
@@adventureswithtime my wildest guess, maybe they using cheaper mechanical parts... thats the most logic... hehehe
Yes, for me mechanical watch not only about the time, but also about art... different sensation wearing it.
I Just saw a SRPE03k1, i think seiko put new movement on this one.
Hi,
I'm thinking about to buy the Seiko Presage (cal 4r35).
What are you suggest?
Thank you in advance
A Presage is a nice watch. Which one are you considering?
I have 2 of these watches and would like to learn some more about them. I noticed that over a 2 week period my 2 watches loose about 10 mins. I have them in a winder box and ware them each twice a week. Has anyone noticed this amount of time loss? I also bought a new watch winder to see if that might have been the problem. My vintage 1970s 18k omega does not lose any noticeable time.
So 10 minutes is 600 seconds over 14 days = 42 seconds a day. According to Caliber Corner "Seiko claims that the accuracy of caliber 4R35 is between +45 / -35 seconds per day. This rating is based on normal daily wear on the wrist in temperatures between 5 ºC and 35 ºC. When testing your watch for timekeeping, make sure it is fully wound." So the accuracy you are obtaining is within spec. That does it is good. You might try adjusting it yourself; but this can be tricky.
I own the king samurai STO manta ray & initially it was running pretty fast. About +12 to 15 secs per 24hrs. I then brought the watch to have it regulated & since then its been running about -2 to +3 secs per day & has been like this for 2 over yrs. i also have a turtle with a 4R36 & that has been dead on accurate for the past 5 yrs.
Curious, how much did they charge to have your watch regulated?
@@adventureswithtime oh about $10. Its a watch shop actually selling lots of budget Seikos & Orients & they happen to provide watch regulation service. Very few watch shops here provide this service here. I m from singapore btw.
My grand seiko does not deviate ever wearing it or not under no circumstance. It is always 3 seconds fast always. My prospex 62 mas is incredibly accurate plus 3sec in a month. I’m sticking with those two till they explode or want something different, spring drive is in my future for sure.
You’ve done well with your selections
Did you try do demagnetize it ? Sometimes metal detectors on airports magnetize writwatches
Nuno MC I don’t know how to do that. How is that done? Isn’t that something the service center should do?
Adventures With Time If it was an higher tier timepiece and a credible service center, yes. But there are some decent compact and cheap demagnetizing units you can try. Check on youtube, for instance “demagnetize watch” on edc gunner channel
Adventures With Time th-cam.com/video/FdbKsn_5T30/w-d-xo.html
Nuno MC I got one off of amazon and yes Seiko cheap movt’s are VERY prone to magnetism unless it has a SPRON hairspring
Magnetised I bet also, my szsc003 was doing just this, now it’s demagnetised it’s 100% nice clean lines on my timegrapher too
hello, may i ask? if you use a watch winder, how is this mechanism supposed to be wounded? clockwise? counterclock? both?
I do not use a watch winder. If my watch winds down because of non-use, it only takes a minute to set and wind it.
It is both for Seiko movements.
I had a similar problem with my Steeldive 1954 going from 2-3 seconds fast a day and suddenly it was running at about 20-30 seconds fast per day. After Googling the problem I was pretty sure that my watch had been inadvertently magnetised so I downloaded an app onto my IPad which confirmed that my watch had indeed been magnetised. I ordered a cheap demagnetiser off Amazon which cured the problem.
I tried demagnetizing. Did you see that video?
Did you ever check to see if the watch had become magnetized? A magnetized movement can become VERY erratic. A demagnetizing tool can be purchased for around $15 on Amazon.
Yes, I've tried demagnetizing it a couple of times. Maybe I didn't do it correctly. Didn't make much of a change.
Good video.i am your korean fan
Nice to meet you.
Just a small point, I would suggest you you always reset the Time Grapher (switch off) for every position.
Interesting. Why do you suggest that?
TImegrapher circuitry is quite basic at best Switching it off in between positions ensures no information is retained from the previous setting. I was getting the same erratic results when I first got it.
Hmmmmm. I wonder if we're getting the whole story here. What's being described is what I'd expect after a watch took a severe knock, perhaps dropped onto a hard surface and landed on the crown. If not then the other possibility is something foreign has found it's way into the balance, in which case taking the back off and using a squeeze ball pump around that area might do the trick. Sometimes the simplest fixes are the most effective
The bit of this Japan movement seems doesn't run consistently, are you sure this is a new watch ?
Yes I'm fairly sure it was a new watch. I'll see how it runs over the next few months.
My Hamilton khaki field automatic keeps better time then my Sieko Sarbo33 . You are right . What is going on at Seiko. Very sad
I think its just their massed produce movements that have no or little inspection. But I also had a bad chapter ring on the first of these watches I was sent and had to send it back for a better one.
Yep. I have $9 swatches that keep better time than my $220 auto with this movement. Wtf, Seiko? I use to be such a fan....
@@malcolmbliss777 Any quartz movement will beat most if not all mechanical movements in terms of durability and accuracy.
It got magnetized had similar problems with a miyota 8xxx 13 buck demagnatizer off ebay fixed it. Magnetism can definitely cause it to run a erratic like that
Although I've changed the movement, many people have suggested I demagnetize it. I might try that with the removed movement to see if it helps.
Probably a quality problem with the spring, it could be too thin, try using it a couple of days and compare results, get a bluetooth casio to adjust the day's clock, don't get discouraged, and avoid Malaysian movements, Seiko is many things, has excellent watches, greetings
Thanks for the input
I think you are not expecting too much. Though I think you should bring it to a local watchmaker.
The problem with taking it to a non-Seiko watch maker is that it will cost me money vs. warranty service from the service center. Right?
@@adventureswithtime IF YOU ARE IN THE GUARANTEEE, JUTS SEND IT BACK, OTHERWISE, GET A GOOD WATCHMALER,
YOU HAVE TO ASK PEOPLE AND TALK I TOOK MORE THAN A YEAR TO FIND A GOOD WATCHMAKER, HE MAKE A SERVICE FOR CHEAP AND FAST...AVOID SHOPS CAUSE THEY TAKE A LOT O MONEY.
SOMETIMES I ASK HIM TO POISE THE BALANCE, ETC AND HE MAKES EVERYTHING...WARRANTY?? DONT NEED HES MAKING A GOOD SERVICE IF I FIND PROBLEMS I WILL TAKE IT BACK, JUST HAPPENED ONCE,,, HE FORGOT SOMETHING OUT OF PLACE, HE ACUSSED ME OF OPENING THE WATCH, BUT I CONVINCED HIM HE WAS WRONG,,, I ASKED HIM TO TAKE IT IN THE ASS, :) THEN HE UNDERSTOOD I WAS NOT KIDING, EVEN SO, I KEEP TALKING WITH HIM AND TRUSTING IN HIS SERVICE, NOW WE ARE FRIENDS...
@@adventureswithtime YOU DONT NEED BRANDS,,SEIKO...., GET ONLY SOMEONE THAT IS VERY GOOD IN WATCHES,,,, YOU WILL GET A VERY GOOD NICE JOB AND MAYBE CHEAP, CAUSE THOSE ARTISTS USUALLY WORK GOOD AND FAST, SO THYE CAN MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE CHEAP.
i think your watch has been affected by magnet. Is your timegraph tool magnetic?
You may be correct. Others have suggested that.
Bob, that movement is very sick. My watchmaker is a registered Seiko dealer and he services all my watches (Swiss and Japanese) and provides feedback on everything he has found on his timegrapher. I buy my Seiko watches from him (I own 15 Seikos of varying vintage - 1972 to 2018) and he has replaced the movements on two of my Seikos for the very reason you are experiencing ... erratic performance. Remember, these are mass produced movements and there are a number of lemons among them.
In my opinion, sending a watch away does not allow for that level of accountability. Find a watchmaker you can talk to face-to-face, preferably a registered Seiko dealership. Seiko should be replacing the movement under warranty... period. I am most willing to take your Samrai in to Hisao- San (North Vancouver Canada) for repairs, but that would probably void your U.S. warranty.
The Samurai is a gorgeous watch, in my opinion, and is pretty much bullet-proof, but yours seems to have been DOA. I truly enjoyed this video Bob ... please keep us posted, and let me know if I can help.
If I send to a registered Seiko dealer (aka a Seiko AD?) would they perform the work under warranty even if the watch was not purchased from them?
Adventures With Time : If it was purchased from a Seiko dealer, yes. If it is a gray market purchase, no.
I HAVE AN WATCHMAKER AND HE NEVER CHANGE MOVEMENTS, ALWAYS CHANGE PARTS, OR REFRESH THEM OR REBUILD THEM.
Just like Ed said. Mass production give us lower cost per item and a percentage of not so great movements.
I use to service and adjust the movement in every mechanical watch i bought. Many times i had to replace the balance if 2-3 new jewels doesn't give me close rates in basic positions.
Recently i was currating a bunch of custom K. Samurais as corporate gifts. In 11 brand new movements i have to change 2 balances, one balance bridge and a complete movement.
All of them work in +5" - -5" per day in real life while shows a bit higher in some positions on chronograph.
All have minnor bit error just like my swiss movements.
But they cost half include full service and adjustment...
Hallo Bob,
The beat error is very, very concerning. The readings are all over the place. Has it dropped hard anytime? Magnetized, broken movement parts?? Definitely not ok! I would try a real, local watchmaker . There are more complaints about the works at Seiko service centers.
I'm not sure if the Seiko service center really does anything. I actually called them after the first time and asked if they put the watch on a timegrapher and they said no. So I don't know how they tell if the watch is running with any accuracy.
Hi there. I’m having issues with my 4r35 as it looses 5 seconds a day
5 seconds is good accuracy for these movements. Don't worry.
Get a Grand Seiko spring drive if you want accuracy and mechanical. Some have an accuracy of +/-0.5 sec per day
I was looking at the spring drive, but many have a power reserve indicator which I don't like. I really like their high beat movements.
@@adventureswithtime yea I understand what you mean. There are some models where they are putting it on the back which I hope they do more of so it can preserve the aesthetics of the dial!
I have a 4r39 movement which doesn't keep time consistently.
My Seagull Ocean Star is 10 seconds fast every day. Every day.
Easy to hack.
Also the Seiko has Hardlex mineral crystal which I scratched almost immediately.
The Seagull has sapphire.
No scratches in 3 years is almost daily use.
My Seagull has the mineral crystal.
@@adventureswithtime Sapphire on Seagull Ocean Star watches.
Mineral Hardlex is tough against knocks but scratches easily.
Everyone knows that.
Some Seagull watches have mineral yes. Which Sea-gull watch have you got?
There is definitely something wrong with your watch. And, of course, it’s in the balance assembly. I wouldn’t expect it to get any better on its own, and you’ve already had it stop on you. I also don’t see it as unreasonable that you should expect a well-running movement at that price.
I have a 4R35 movement in my Seiko SRPA71. I have none of the issues you are experiencing. It was running well, before I messed up the balance while regulating it. I swapped the balance complete from a 7S26 movement, and it’s back to running like a top. -2 seconds/day on-wrist.
I agree with some others who have suggested taking it to a local watchmaker. I know you’ll end up having to pay something, but even a swap of the balance complete shouldn’t be that expensive. Hell, the whole movement is only $50-odd.
I also have a NH36 movement (same base movement, with day/date) running in a modified watch I created. That’s also running like a top. Excellent beat error, and positional variance more than acceptable. Yours is just a rogue. It happens. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think I might keep it as is. When I feel ready I might get an entirely new movement and try swapping it out myself. That is, use it for education.
@@adventureswithtime That is a way to go. There is also a cheaper and easier way. Obviously, this is just my opinion, but I’m very sure that your problem is in the balance assembly. When I messed up mine, I found that you could get the balance complete for around $10. You have to be very careful when messing with the balance assembly, but it’s not that bad a job really.
The advantage of doing that-aside from cost-is that you don’t have to remove the hands and dial. For a watchmaker, it would be a fifteen minute job. Just a thought. Good luck, whichever way you go.
@@AlanHearnshaw I wish I could get Seiko to replace the balance assembly under warranty. Maybe I could send it to them specifically asking them to perform that operation.
@@adventureswithtime Yes, that would be ideal. I remember watching a video once by the English watchmaker who posts great videos on TH-cam. His name escapes me right now. Mark somebody. Anyway, he had a watch which was demonstrating the exact problem you’re having. You could see the mess on the timegrapher, and other spurious sounds when he analysed the sound. Anyway, he opened the case back, put it back on the timegrapher, and loosened the screw on the balance cock just a tiny amount. It immediately cleaned up the graph. Although he didn’t advise the following as the correct way to do it, somebody had already done it once: They use a screwdriver, and make a slight nick, indent or raise in the metal of the base plate underneath the balance cock, then re-tighten it. This has the effect of giving a little more space between the balance jewels. This solved the problem. The balance was binding.
I’m far from an expert, but it would be an interesting experiment. I feel sure that’s where the problem lies.
I understand though, that all this may be more than you wish to bother with.
No find a local watch repairer get a demagnetiser first about 9 bucks. The movement is a good workhorse for Seiko. Avoid brand service centres they don’t love your watch like you do.
I did the work myself. See my playlist on this topic. It was fun, frustrating and educational.
Esslinger has the movement for $49.95. How about a movement replacement video?
the beamer I don’t think I have the skills for that yet. I assume it’s fairly straightforward, but I don’t think I want to try that yet. Maybe I will eventually get to that point.
Have you ever done a movement replacement?
Not yet.
But, my Christmas presents from my wife, that I picked up from Esslinger, includes a movement and hand tools for replacing a 7N43 quartz movement. This is after 2 trips to the Asurion repair center, that backs purchases on Amazon, failed to fix a random stopping problem.
BTW- The stopping eventually looked to me to be related to the day and date engagement phase of operation. And I have a vague memory of once setting the watch late at night. I'll be looking for a damaged day/date wheel tooth when stripping the dial, crown stem and hands from the movement.
Adventures With Time I have, on a simple watch like this after watching a few videos here it’s actually really easy as long as you have a decent set of hand lifters to remove the hands and something to remove the case back all else you need are some watchmakers screwdrivers a movement holder a small plastic zip lock style back to protect the dial as you lift off the hands and a blower to remove any dust that might gather on the dial or crystal inside when you take the movement out. If you have no tools I suggest one of those tool kits from China to begin with, they are cheap and do a reasonable job. There are bits of the one I bought six years ago like the case back opener and hand lifters that still work perfectly well. Spend a bit more though on better quality screwdrivers, it’s worth it!
ianmedium maybe I’ll try that as my first experience in working on a watch.
I would love sometime to get into vintage watches but I’m concerned about buying a watch that isn’t up to snuff. When you buy vintage how do ensure you’re getting a good original watch. And how to you determine a fair value.
Thanks for your experienced input
Adventures With Time oh you are welcome, it’s one of the things I love most about this hobby, the sharing and learning. My advice is the next time your at a flea market look out for a cheap $5 watch with a mechanical movement, it does not matter if it’s not working as it’s a practice watch so you can have a go at doing various things including hand , dial and movement removal. That way you get comfortable with the technique and tools in doing this job and you will then go into doing the real thing with more confidence. The more you practice the easier it becomes. I even have a crystal grabber for plastic crystals to remove and replace them if the watch is a front loader style.
As for vintage what I would recommend for your first experience is a serviced low price one that you like the look of. That way you get a feel of what you like and don’t like about vintage and your watch is serviced so should run well!
There are some excellent sellers in the US that I have used in the past. It since moving to Austria I don’t do eBay or such anymore or the US websites but let me go back through my old purchases on line and I will post here a couple of good sellers
My 4r36 in my Monster is running very so, and my buddy has a 7s26 in an snk809 that is all over the place positionally. After seeing this and reading the comments, not impressed Seiko!
I think it's the luck of the draw with these affordable watches. I have some that are really great +/- 3 secs a day.
What watches do you have in your collection?
@@adventureswithtime I think it's luck of the draw too. As for my collection, are you ready haha, I'll just focus on what's in the box right now and are in rotation lol. I'm mainly a budget collector and I still definitely like my Seikos. I have a 2nd gen Monster and the new Solar Golden Tuna. 2 vintage Seikos, a 6309-7290 diver (my first auto), and a sunburst grey 7009 casual/dress watch. I go to thrift stores a lot and find great vintages watches, a lot Timex's, two made it to the watchbox, both in great condition, one has a crazy UFO shaped case, hand wind only and the other is a beautiful Calatrava-esque automatic and has become my main gold tone dress watch. I just picked up a Q Timex Reissue. I've got a beautifully patined field watch from the late 40's early 50's by a Swiss company called Norwood, blued syringe hands with dark tan lume. I also love Casio, I've got the ana-digi "arnie" watch from Kindergarden Cop, 2 F91w's, one modded with homemade bullbars and a nato strap (the watch that started all of this) and one in gold metallic, a Low Temp LCD G-shock square for the cold months shoveling here in Canada. My only microbrand is a Dan Henry 1963 chronograph on a vintage bracelet I sourced on ebay and I couldn't be happier with it. Beyond that is sub collections of vintage digital, sentimental, watches in various states of repair and watches I don't know what I'm going to do with haha. If you made it this far haha, thanks for reading! and keep up the journey!
A- Wall wow. Nice collection.
@@adventureswithtime Thank you!
If the accuracy is within spec (which it is) either wear and enjoy it or sell it off. I don't think it's at all reasonable to expect Seiko to do anything more about it. They advertise a mechanical movement with a certain accuracy, not perfection in watchmaking. Enjoy it as is or move it along.
I tend to agree. I'm just concerned that something is seriously wrong with the movement and it will go bad and need to be replaced after the warranty runs out. After all, it did stop running once already.
@@adventureswithtime ah that's a fair concern. I forgot you mentioned it outright stopped. I still think I'd probably sell it with full disclosure and get a new one, for me personally.
WATCHES ARE EXPECTED TO MAKE A SERVICE NOT TO BE PERFECT, IF YOU LOOK FOR MORE PERFECTION, BUY A CHINESE QUARTZ.
I’m having the same problem! And their repair center was no help. It’s fixed. But it’s not. It still either just stops or I look and it off by 35 minutes. WTF? It’s without a doubt the worst Seiko I ever bought (owned about 15). Why just THIS auto Seiko sucking so much? Why won’t Seiko address this?
was this problem since you purchased the watch or recent. I'm thinking my watch might have been magnetized.
I would rather measure accuracy per week instead per day. I just bought new Samurai 4r35 and accuracy at the moment is incredible. In a week it was only 2s behind the official time. My experience with other watches tells me that daily accuracy might vary and it might be anything +2 - 3 second. There are a lot of factors that influence the accuracy of an automatic watch. For example how long you are wearing it daily, what is most common position you keep the watch, temperature when wearing and temperature when you put it away, etc. Most important thing: users are forgetting about regular service. Each watch needs re-lubrication and cleaning, if it's being worn often. Micro metal and dirt particles, water condesation etc. will influence the accuracy. Enjoy your watches... responsibly😊.
I was measuring daily to see what types of activities did impact accuracy
Do you wear Your samurai 4r35 watch every day when you get -2 seconds in a week?
@@alihaydarerdogan8257 Hi, yes I wear it every day around 12-15 hours a day. Usually at night I put it away on the table. When the watch is at the table, it speeds around 4 to 6s over night, but when I wear it during the day it slowes down. But it gains much faster than it's loosing time. In order to compansate the difference I would have to wear it twice longer that the time that watch is being put away. Basically any difference between official time and time on my wach referees directly to the time duration that I wear the watch. Of course temperature plays the role in here as well as few other factors. But it's all being balanced quiet well.
Your beat error is what bothers me and makes men think it's gear train related. Either something is loose, or the mainspring is bad or barrel is loose?
You could be correct. I replaced the entire movement which would solve all those problems.
Los movimientos modernos 4r son muy difíciles de ajustar, tengo un 4r36 que se ha llevado al servicio técnico varias veces, incluso cambiando el movimiento no termina de ir bien. SEIKO tiene mucho trabajo por hacer que ni el mismo servicio tecnico oficial sabe solucionar, después de mucha observación diría que el muelle real es de mala calidad y tiene mucha variación en la fuerza que ejerce sobre el volante si está la cuerda a tope o si está a media carga, no compraré más seiko. Saludos y suerte a los compradores futuros.
I agree about Seiko movement. Thanks
A lot of scattering of dots on the screen of the timegrapher indicates a magnetizing problem.
Demagnitize.
That has been mentioned to me before. I've already replaced the movement with a new one; but I think I'm going to try to demagnetize the old movement to see if that helps. Thanks
Try to demagnetize the whole
watch and see what happens.Otherwise it has to be checked out carefully.
Thanks for the advoce
My 4r35 watch is slow move why it is new
I'm going to stay away from 4R35's for now on. Too unpredictable as to what one gets.
@@adventureswithtime why?
Set it around 3 minutes fast see how long it takes to cache up for accuracy
Soy coleccionista y amante de Seiko
Pero últimamente estoy muy reticente por varios motivos
Casi todos mis 4r me van a unos más 7
Los dos últimos que e comprado el tortuise galapagos me empezó a ir a más 5 día muy buenos parametros como los uso cada tanto les doy cuerda una vez al mes la siguiente puesta me subió a más 15 s para mí muy raro pensé que se debía al cambio de temperatura. La cosa que lo pare lo puse en ora y al día siguiente me dio más 5 pero el segundo más 10 estás variaciones no son normales es regulación y sincronía también al ser nuevos yo les doy un tiempo por tema de aceites y aguste de ruedas so por si no se sabe es como hacer un rodaje a un coche los piñones se asientan
Yo creo que el caso del sullo es regulación y sincronía falja algo
Luego yo el tortuise galapagos son 590 euros mucho dinero para. Un 4r
El otro es un szs0b12 made in Japan el cual me va a más 12 y no varía de más 10 más 12 aún así no me deja buen sabor de boca este parámetro aunque esté muy bien en los demás los tengo de más 7 a más 2 en un 5 sport
Pienso que al sillo le pasa algo igual que a mí tortuise
Interesting story
Yo los dos últimos uno 590 e el 🐢 Galápagos me fue una semana a más 5 me lo puse Alós 20 igual y a la tercera me daba más 15 pero no varía la a cosa que lo pare para ponerlo sincronizado me dio más 15 el primer día más 5 el segundo como andaba nuevo y más 10 el tercero lo e dejado guardado para una puesta dentro 20 días y aver si me da otros parámetros que no sean más 5 lo llevaré también estos días aquí a habido cambios bruscos de temperatura o se a podido macnetizar un poco cosa leve se desmanetiza solo con los días o con máquina en el momento
La cosa que jode luego un 4r 35 en un reloj de 590 euros pico calibre
The movement is machine assembled
That things running rough
Is it was
The movement just need a service.
It is an irony that all the guys replacing nh35/36 to avoid paying for a service.... end up doing it so often that they would have been better off servicing the original 4r35/36 - - just amusing...
Btw, if any of you have not noticed it:
Given the choice, I'd rather change a battery every 3-5 years than an nh35/36... one every 3 to 5 years.... amusing
Maybe you are correct that it needs a service. But I found it very enjoyable and educational to replace the movement and resolve all the issues that I encountered.
I guess nothing is wrong with your time gaffer. me myself I have Sieko with 6R15 movement almost 3 years and I getting - 25 sec a day. 6R15 consider to be better than 4R35, that's the true. I believe if you want something from Seiko with a movement in the level of ETA 2824 you need to get to the price tag of 3000$ US. Sieko mechanics movements are not great in the lower price.
I don't expect too much from the 4R35 movement. Just want to make sure there isn't something seriously wrong that will go bad after the warranty runs out.
GET THEM TO A GOOD WATCHMAKER, THEY WILL BE GREAT LIKE ANY OTHER WATCH..
@@PedroSilva-yc4bu but then a gain you will have to pay at least 150$-200$ to the watchmaker, he will not work for free.. anyway what ever he will do after 6-12 months you will have to meet him again, so what's the point?
No es normal por esperiencia me pasa en una unidad y la tengo que mirar o mala regulación o el órgano regulador espiral doblada montada montada es que la espiral se superpone o se monta encima otra línea e incluso por encima del tornillo regulador los e visto y marchan lo que está claro que el fallo es del órgano regulador los tornillos escentricos puede ser mala regulación
Tengo 4r que van desde más 2 a otros que me dan un Massimo de más 12
Hombre Seiko si quiere se agarra de que entra en parámetros si quiere y ya está pero es un problema del órgano regulador cualquier relojero decente te lo deja fino
These movements are not consistent
The 4R35 and NH35 belong to disposable watches. Seiko’s pricing on low end watches is unfair.
Do you mean that the Seiko watches are overpriced?
6R not any better :(
in fact, Seiko doesn't know how to lubricate their movements. at least for the low range of them. you just need to find a good watch repairer who will clean it perfectly and lubricate it with high standards. Rolex level. a good de-magnetization before regulating it and it should be good to go. therefore, a de-magnetizer is something to concider when you have auto watches.
when you have a weird behavior, just put it on the machine and read again on the grapher. if it doesn't move, then you know it's from th movement itself. but if you do find a good watch repairer, it shouldn't happen. only after many years when the movement starts to get nasty/sticky inside.
Thanks for the suggestions.
This is correct. I got my Seiko 5 with 7s26 about 4 years ago, the one with display caseback and believe it or not, a couple of days after the purchase I've noticed a significant amount of oil on one of the wheels. Didnt want to take it back because the Seiko dealers suck and don't care so I took it to the watch maker. The cinslusion was that Seiko pit way too much oil in the movement lol....after cleaning and re-oiling everything was spot in and still is to this day.
My watch is +74. Still on warranty
Are you ok with that?
@@adventureswithtime Hell no! will drop off at the service as soon as I can
El órgano regulador es muy sensible yo hago revisiones y el último un 4r37 lo jodo de la pitón
Troubles
That movement is severely magnetized. Easily fixed, the next time you walk next to whatever caused it in the first place (putting your watch on top of your cell phone at night maybe?) it will do it again.
With it's nickel balance, this inexpensive movement has no resistance at all to being magnetized. It can be quite accurate and last a VERY long time without service, but it is a basic movement assembled by uncaring robots at the end of the day.
I love them honestly but they have their limits, and are easily *and cheaply* replaced.
I don’t know what might have magnetized it. I tried a demagnetized but no improvement
I don't get it. People are collecting watches and spending tons of money yet they refuse to get the watch to the watchmaker if the watch isnt expensive...like wtf, a simple rehaul at a fairly decent watch maker isnt more than 50€ and your watch will be fixed lol.
I can only speak for myself. I did this more to learn about working on watches. Yes, it would have probably been less expensive to take it to a watch maker. But I learned a lot by doing this.
Ljudi mnogo vole Seiko i ja sam jedan od njih,medjutim trenutno ne postoji ni jedan jedini razlog za kupovinu Seika.Mnogi padnu na onu foru „pa to je Japanac mora da je odlican“ ali na zalost nije tako.Mehanizam 4r35 i 6r35 su kao da igras loto.Mogu biti odlicni ali uglavnom su katastrofa a kostaju po od 300 do 800eura.Tek 8L35 je mehanizam vredan paznje koji se prodaje za 3200eura a za 1600eura postoje svajcarski satovi COSC sertifikovani sa garantovanom preciznoscu od -4/+6 sec.
Pozdrav!
@@Tribalius Pa ne bih se složio. Vi ljudi kao da zaboravljate da su naše dede još nosile one obične petice po 40+ godina. 4R i 6R su neregulisani mehanizmi pa od sreće zavisi da li ćeš dobiti relativno tačan ili netačan sat ali svaki sajdžija može da ga našteluje na prihvatljivu tačnost. Ja imam 3 sata sa 4R36, jedan sa 7s26 i jedan sa 6R15, svi su u okviru +10 sekundi na dan što je meni više nego ok. To su jaki mehanizmi, jednostavni, ako želiš da ih servisiraš trajaće ti čitav život.
@@Tribalius I agree with your comment that the movements are like playing the Lottery
4R35 / NH35 is such a cheap movement to buy, isn't it more than around 100 USD / GBP to get brand new
Exactly what I did. It was a fun and educational experience to replace the movement. Check out those videos.
People have a new idea of seikos being unbreakable. Why do you think 7002 and skx amongst others are found with tons of service parts or replacement movements but everyone's ok buying them.... if the watch takes a hit it is susceptible to a deformation to the hairspring or a catch on the balance itself. Common. Other times. Amateurs won't admit they 'played with their watch 'and swing a regulator arm too hard and they damage their own hairspring - too embarrassed to say so.
Interesting. Do other movements have similar problems? If not, why?
@@adventureswithtime yes. I had a 2824 in one of my beloved wab2010 tag heuer aqua racers. Ran great. Glowed great. Went into the ocean with me and the pool everyday. Worked in harsh conditions with manual labor DAILY. suddenly had an observation of a low amplitude - messy timegraph result. So and so forth it got worse and worse until my intuition told me to look at my own hair spring . It was moving more like a spiraled motion instead of a concentric circle evenly. I had jammed up the hairpsring between studs or slipped it out entirely. This was my first painful watch repair ( did others myself) fast forward to now when I get seikos and see under a mag the true nature of this cause. I see that some more than others-. Due to coincidence or 'factory variables and variances '- are susceptible to a permanent move to these parts . Instead of the allowed I think 30s variables during shock which is tested on most watches on higher market. Something like 30 sec or less within a small frame of time to return back to normal op after a 'shock' or smack if you will.. but that's my piece. I love tag omega and oris or longines divers im weird. But have 7002s 6309s and new srps. My black srp777 was fine. +2 seconds. My great white srp ? +34 within a week and took me a second doing this iffy regulation to correct it. Thanks....
@@adventureswithtime I simply won't add much more on how shock effects each movement because I refuse to bash any company. But by anyone's standards it's sad when a HEFTY boy like a seiko takes a hit and doesn't get back in the ring.
Now you know why should buy a Swiss watch ⌚️
I assume you mean a watch with a Swiss movement. I have found that it is a roll of the dice with Seiko movements. Sometimes they are very good, but then there are those that just have problems.
Yes, you are expecting by far too much,sorry. Seiko has many friends and fans but they are mass producers for a global market. THEIR watches are not quality products. There movements are cheap and for decades they dared to offer even non hacking and non winding movements. I own two Seikos and have some experience with their NH 36 movement. Minus half a minute per day. I for myself will never again buy a n y Seiko. I think you trust ETA or other Swiss movements much more, even in watches well below $ 1000,-. Try Steinhart divers f. i. Seiko movements cant compete with Swiss made ones. The NH 36 is used in all of these ‚hommage watches‘ made in China because its cheap and will last, thats true. But in terms of accuracy its a lottery game.
I certainly agree that Seiko has quality issues; not only in the movements but in the assembly. I had problems with this exact watch getting one with all the indices aligned.
That's why you don't buy cheap mech watches. Stick with quartz under 1000. Casio and citizen make great watches. Bulova if you want a dressier piece. Seriously Casio is great specially for 20$ and under. Can't kill em without trying to do so.
I set my casio w800 to atomic time two months ago. Its my work watch. Im a warehouse worker and bulk supply delivery guy. Wear it every day. And its not got. Hardly a noticeable mark. And is less than a second off of atomic time after two months. Has 10bar water resist. Dual time. 24hr option. Stopwatch with split. Alarm. And i modded the module and now have count down timer function. All for 19$ at Wal-Mart. The black and silver looks acceptable imo. Best watch ever for 20$ do yourself a favor and get one. (I collect casios so i have 16 now...classics and i like square gshocks) they are cheap and fun. Some of them look good too.
Ps i also have mechanical watches (ORIS ....DOXA....SEIKO....BULOVA)
i rarely wear them anymore. I too fell into the hype of mechanical watches. And have switched back to quartz.
There are high quality quartz watches out there that have the jewelry factor. If you like bling and want accuracy. Grand seiko Spring drive on the highest end. Casio Oceanus mid tier. And maybe bulova precisionist or citizen for a lower end watch. Take your pick
Jerk Ass I don’t consider $300 a cheap watch. Yes, it is an affordable watch, but I would not say cheap.
I agree, if one wants ultimate accuracy you go for a quartz; and probably a Grand Seiko. But I like mechanical watches regardless of their accuracy. I and just trying to get the most out of what the movement is capable.
My problem is i cant wear a mech watch without killing it and having to send it in for repair at 500$ a pop. I have learned that i can just buy the whole movement cheap.. I just need to learn to replace it myself. Or care enuff to do so. Lol
Jerk Ass my wife likes to buy cheap ($20) watches and just throw them away when they stop. But it’s like the mechanical ones. I don’t beat them up at all.
@@adventureswithtime a GRAND SEIKO IS NOT QUARTZ,
@@alphacapo GOOD FOR YOU, BUT IF YOU PAY 500 FOR A WATCH REPAIR, YOUR IN TH WRONG PLACE, LEAVE SHOPS GET A PRIVATE AND GOOD WATCHMAKER, THEY DO MIRACLES,,,
only Quartz can handle witch you
What do you mean?
Китайская сборка )
Is there a special problem with Chinese assembly?
@@adventureswithtime я думаю seiko экономят на механизме устанавливая его в модели разных ценовых категорий, этот механизм сам по себе проблема и с завода идёт +45 секунд в сутки
yeah seiko is crap for a movement, nothing like swiss. i can never balence a seiko.
Mass produced movements.
Only the 4R and some 6R lines are trash but their higher beat movements like the 6L35 & 8L35 are really good.
I have many Seikos with 7s26 amd 4R36 in my collection, never had any issue. Those movements are good and robust but the thing is that Seiko does not put much effort in regulating them in the factory because they put those movements in affordable watches. However, if you want a robust movement that can last generations and keep a good time, all you have to do is brjng the watch to the watchmaker. These movements are made by machines from scratch and are often oiled too much. My 7s26 had so much oil out of the store that I could see the oil on some wheels on the movement. Took it to the watchmaker for cleaning and the watch works perfectly fine now. Swiss however pay more attention and will be more accurate out of the box but believe me, they are not neatly as robust as 4R series.
Hi, your timegrapher readings are wrong because Seiko has very quiet beats and the rotating weight interfers with the sound. I have serviced old Seiko 7009 movement, and keeps a good time around +4 s/d, but I get the same reading on timeographer as you. I have opened the case, inspected the balance, and all looks good.
Interesting theory. Thanks
@@adventureswithtime I'm like 4 years late. But I kind of agree with the above. I have a Seiko with a 4R36 that looked a lot like your timegrapher plot when I first put it on. But I found that if I just increased the gain on the microphone, (hit the + button while it is running), the traces clean right up. That absurdly bad beat error, for me, seemed to be just a result of the extraneous hits that were coming from "elsewhere", but being interpreted as part of the movement. By increasing the sensitivity of the microphone, it seemed to lock up properly on the actual ticking of the watch instead. Now, as a general rule, I use the timegrapher in a quiet room, with the gain turned all the way up!
@@adventureswithtime To show my experience, I uploaded my FIRST TH-cam video just for you! th-cam.com/video/KfxnzhUYhUU/w-d-xo.html. It starts with my 4R36 watch showing rather unspectacular performance...but nice straight lines, and good timegrapher (TG) performance. (I'm trying to work up the nerve to regulate it). Then you'll note that I turn the microphone gain down to the minimum. The TG immediately get's "snowy", and gets progressively worse, until the beat error (finally) shows something like 7.6 ms. I then turn the gain back up, the traces immediately become pretty little lines, and the beat error registers at an acceptable, (if not impressive), number. Sorry the video is 2 1/2 minutes long, but I wanted to show the beat rate going out of control before switching back. I don't know the final fate of your Samurai....but if you still have the will to poke at it, you might try changing the gain setting on your TG?? (Hope you see this comment in a 2+ year old video. Let me know with a response if you do....)
@@tkindschi Thanks for the information. I'll remember that.
@@tkindschi Again, thanks for the helpful information.