TC Series: 19 Did you know Harley Hydraulic Lifters are directional? How to install them correctly
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- Did you know Harley Davidson hydraulic lifters are directional? Take a look at the one drilled hole. There's a reason. Watch this video for the details and how to install them correctly.
If you’re not using a service manual, there may be many other “details” you are missing by trusting your mechanic instincts. Just saying…
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The lifter is fed oil through a machined groove around the lifter bore. It doesn't matter which way the hole in the lifter faces. HD knows what they are doing.
Hi Bob. I believe we stated this in the video. And after many years of working with the Motor Companies Training department, we have had the opportunities to ask why on many topics found in our videos. As much as we would agree that HD knows what they are doing, no one is without error and especially when it comes to writing service manual procedures. The first big tip I was ever given at PHD (Harley's training center) University was the this "always question the manual if it doesn't make sense or you wonder why? With that great advice challenges one to build deep understanding of systems and "what makes sense".
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Hello Shane your instructional videos are great. You are wrong at 1:50 though. The oil is pumped from the oil tank to the cam plate then to the filter then back to the cam plate then to the oil delivery holes to the lifters from the cam plate. IT DOES NOT MATTER at all which way the oil holes face in or out because the oil is pressurized and flowing a greater distance throughout the motor than just going around a lifter bore would make. Oil film is always leaking around lifters and rocker shafts etc., etc., which lubricates all moving parts. It only matters to minimize microscopic wear to replace removed lifters into the same bore in the same orientation as they came out if reusing.
I think he’s saying it for flow to lifters only and to only for purpose of keeping lifters full so you get correct lift !!??
Not the case at all.
So, the nature of hydrostatic pressure is that it pushes equally in all directions so the hole in the side of the lifter wont fill up until that channel cut into the middle of the outside of the lifter is filled. This means it doesn't matter which way the lifter faces as long as the roller at the bottom and the flat are pointed correctly for the lifter to work properly. A better practice is to fill the lifters by submerging them in oil in a canning jar. small hole in the lid and us a hand vacuum pump to suck out the air through the hole. When you release the vacuum, oil shoots into the lifters. There is also a special syringe you can get to pump oil into the lifters one at a time.
Totally agree the oil will go around the lifters without regard to their position.
Well said.
True. But when putting everything back together you need to wait say 45min until you can apply final torque on the rockers arm assembly to make sure the tappets are not pressurized - the pushrods need to rotate freely. Applies to each cylinder.
@@michaelslawinski6449I found this out the hard way once. I torqued everything to spec and the rocker assemblies loosened up within just a few miles. I thought my torque wrench was out of calibration at first.
I just purchased screaming eagle lifters. The holes are in line with the flats instead of the “side” of the lifter. So I decided to match the holes to the supply slots in the case. The holes on the front lifters face forward and the rear lifters face rearward to match the location of the oil feed slots in the case.
My 02 service manual does state holes to the inside, but my 07 manual only mentions to keep same orientation to preserve wear patterns.
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@@How2Wrench I was wondering about the same question/comment as Dewey. I like your video, but too bad you didn't answer his question and mine, but tried to sell us something.
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You have the best instructional videos on TH-cam in my opinion. I feel confident with what I learn here. I was wondering if you have any videos on how to determine lifter and cam wear on a TC 88? I would like to know if I can safely reuse my old ones or if I should replace them. Thanks for these great videos!
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Great videos Thank you so much, Just an FYI the oil holes in my 2010 Ultra were all facing out. I have 70K on them and are just now replacing them.
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I just took my 06 Softail apart and the holes were facing outside or toward the cam plate, this engine was this way from the factory 16k miles never been apart, just took apart to change to the Screaming Eagle hydro update tensioners.
One slight correction, in my expensive HD service manual, it says "take care to record the position of the oil holes" or some such dribble. Thanks for this video to help me install them correctly.
I'm late to the party, but having just started rebuilding a '92 sportster I'm finding your vids very interesting.
Started a blog on my channel doing the cleanup while I'm waiting on parts.
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WOW , I just did a cam swap on my 2014 103, one of the lifters fell out and I simply just put it back in. haven't ridden it yet but have let idle to warm. and then outta random video viewing I come across this!!!
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I personally don’t think it would matter which direction they are installed but I dont think it’s a bad assembly practice since you have to choose a direction to install them .
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Installed new hydraulic lifters with adjustable pushrods. Running good and quiet. Only thing is my oil pressure seems to be running a little high at warm. Just under 20psi. 32psi at start up.
I always mark parts as they come out. My factory stock 2001 RK lifters were all facing OUT. Maybe those guys at HD could use some mentoring. YUP YUP!
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If you have to ensure the lifters go back into the hole they came out of or the bore is damaged, what do you do when you have to replace them?
I didn't read or see anything in my manual about the hole needing to be facing inward ? I get the wear pattern aspect of it but if I'm going to install new ones it wouldn't matter how I installed them. Either way is fine. Unfortunately its been 2 or maybe almost 3yrs since I tore my Harley apart so I have no clue how they were positioned. Fortunately I did mark what spot I removed them from. Putting it back together right now. I can't even believe I waited so long .
The only place I recall seeing it is in the OEM HD service manual and like I stated, it varies. It seems to me to learn which way the oil flows comes from and point it closiest to that direction. The main reason I made the video was to point out that they did specifiy and you can't assume "every" motor is the same. More of teaching basic skills sets to the students.
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My 06 Road King lifters came out with the holes facing out, that's the way I will be installing them
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I just removed the tappets in my 2000 Heritage Springer and noted that the oil hole in the tappet faces inboard, as you teach in your video, however, the oil hole from the engine does not face the tappet directly, also as you show in your training video, but instead it seems to come out from the engine case and towards the side of the tappet bore. This means that the oil hole in the bore does not directly face the oil hole in the tappet. Any idea why this is different than what you show in your video?
Appreciate the video man. Keeps me rolling!
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the band around the lifter is a oil band and the oil will get to the hole nomatter how you install it.
mark tucker Wear patterns and intention on reinstalling is the "reason". As well as if you "aim" towards the feel of oil, it just makes sense.
Then you should say its a good idea to put it back in the way it came out to keep the same wear pattern, not put them in with the oil holes facing the crank because it does not matter in which direction they face. Sounds like you scared the crap out of a few people that didn't know any better.
@@dkelley1959 did me I just had to replace my relief valve and tensioners on mine. I had one of the lifters drop off the magnet holders and I didnt look which way the hole was facing.
I can't believe he answered you without you paying.
Yep
Ok so I'm replacing my tensioners. And I noticed the holes on my lifters were facing out instead of in like you mentioned. Yes all four were facing out.
From seeing Shane respond to only comments, different models are installed different. Not sure if he covered it in this video as I'm newer to the team. That’s a great question for Shane directly! We are just the social media team. Shane has a solution for you. As far as the question, Shane does answer questions when he get's back around to non members eventually so hang tight, FYI >>>> he does member ones daily!
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2001 softail heritage classic 88ci B engine twin cam just like in this video.
Great video! Exactly the information I. needed.Thanks
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My twin cam lifters came out with oil holes facing one another. Thats how i replaced them since this engine is from a one owner and never had them out. Therefore they were installed at HD this way
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Lifters can be precharged before installation?
Should the oil hole face inward on the sportsters as well? If i recall the oil also flows up from the back of the cam box too
mark tucker is correct! once the oil pressure builds up. the oil travels around the lifter. although.. it is good pratice to put them the way shane did. just sayin.. lol!
great videos shane! keep them coming!
larry
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Not if they were already in the engine with miles on them, put them back the same way they came out no matter which way the oil hole was facing to keep the same wear pattern.
Do you pump oil into hydraulic lifters before install or do you just lubricate outside ?
They are not directional other than line them up with locking pin, the oil hole can be in or out. Oil comes from the cam plate to not case.
Excellent video series. Well constructed and laid out.
Under the cover it is stamped r and f ( rear and front)
Thanks for the add.
Hi Shane. Thanks for these videos, you've been a great help for me whilst working on my '98 Buell S1W. My Buell has a different pushrod layout, and I would like to know if the oil hole should face inwards or outwards?
I would need to look into it to be sure.
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Hi Shane, looks like the oil hole should be facing outwards, away from the engine. I have just removed the valve lifters from the front cylinder (I am working on the rear cylinder). The front cylinder has never been worked on since it left the factory, I know this because I have owned the bike since new. Both valve lifters had the oil hole facing outwards as I removed them. Also, in the official Buell service manual there is a colour diagram of the oil flow in the engine and crankcases, which shows that the oil feed from the filter flows along a galley near the outside of the crankcase, feeding oil to the valve lifters towards the engine. The same would apply to Sportsters, as the Buell uses the same crankcases and engines. Cheers, Dave.
David Senior k
Should this be done the same on the hole direction on my 2010 Limited FLHTK Harley-Davidson ? I was told by a shop face towards me. Just did front cylinder yesterday, but have not done rear yet due to waiting on a valve.
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Good job, answered my question :-)
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do you recommend filling the lifterswith oil prior to installaation?
That’s a great question for Shane directly! We are just the social media team. Shane does answer questions when he get's back around to non members eventually so hang tight, FYI >>>> he does member ones daily!
He just returned from overseas training techs and his inbox is slammed with requests. He is scheduling time each day again to answer techline orders. He does not have the bandwidth to provide free email replies as his schedule is full with shop customers, training schedules, and one on ones.
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I own a 2005 Road King Classic. I will guarantee that most of the times when you take your bike apart that you will find that it was assembled incorrectly per the manual.
Why do you think that is? Last tech? At the Factory?
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@@How2Wrench Laziness is the reason. The engineering group should, like in the automotive world, have the parts arranged in the proper orientation for proper assembly. Maybe HD has improved since they built my bike. But I have been very disappointed with the quality. First thing that went on my 2005 were the valve seals at 10,571 miles and the HD dealer refused to cover it under warranty because I was doing my own oil changes. Dealer offered to turn it into a 95 cu in for $1,000. I already owned a parts and service manual. I said thank you but I can do that myself and not use any Harley parts. So that is what I did. Cost me $3,000 because I found other problems (inner cam chain tensioners about to explode, cracked exhaust Y pipe). Changed to a gear drive HQ-0034-G cam, CCed heads to have a 10 to 1 compression with CP Pistons, changed to ceramic coated true dual exhaust, put in a Daytona Twin Tech ECU with O2 sensors, Tuned the bike. Then at 71,000 miles the oil pump has stopped working well. Replaced it with a S&S camplate and oil pump. Luckily the flywheel was at .002" run out. I did like your video. I will subscribe.
@@fogit4668 Things have improved a lot since 2005. I personally got to tour the manufacturing floors with students from 2008-2018. Every year we saw CI (continuous improvement) Not making excuses for poor engineering or assembly, just saying it's surely better than 2005. Thanks for subbing...
Well done
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I took my rear lifters out and the inside lifter was pointed the wrong way out word and I have cam wear on the outer lifter was pitted is that what happens?
Hi Grant,
Hope this message makes sense to you as a decent human being that also works for a living and gets it. I’m the intern studying under Shane and on the social media team.. He's in the shop working or training a class. I fInally made it to your comment going down the list...just an FYI...he literally logs in and answers member questions daily! He does an AM and PM check in to answer all member questions. Consider joining...best $1.99 you'll spend this month 😁
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Shane does try answer some non members questions when he get's some time so hang tight if joining is not an option for you.
One of these days I hope to move from the office to the shop! Wish I knew the answer but don't want to bs you. He couldn't screen these requests fast enough...
If you need help sooner choose or more personal his 1:1 option is below!
He just returned from overseas training techs and his inbox is slammed with requests. He is scheduling time each day again to answer techline orders. He does not have the bandwidth to provide email replies as his schedule is full with shop customers, training schedules, and one on ones.
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Does hole on 1997 sportster 1200 lifter oil hole face engine? I just tore down to do heads an saw my fueling lifters the oil hole was facing out on all 4. Was that my ticking noise. Push rods didn’t have any play at rest but could lifter oil hol facing out cause noise as it got to lift with SE 493 or497 cant remember but going all different set up now cams heads big bore. But now wondering if I could been really losing power torc from lifter hole facing out.!! ??
No power loss...and this video was for a big twin and if you watch the whole thing, i even talk about how different years faced different ways...
As far as your Sporty, I have to grab a 1997 manual and look into into to friend...we offer a techline service if needed. how2wrench.com/product/personal-tech-training-phone-facetime/
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What happens if I accidentally mixed up lifters on a 2008 harley davidson custom deluxe softail
Hope this message makes sense to you as a decent human being that also works for a living and gets it. I’m the intern studying under Shane and on the social media team.. He's in the shop working or training a class. I fInally made it to your comment going down the list...just an FYI...he literally logs in and answers member questions daily! He does an AM and PM check in to answer all member questions. Consider joining...best $1.99 you'll spend this month 😁
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Shane does try answer some non members questions when he get's some time so hang tight if joining is not an option for you.
One of these days I hope to move from the office to the shop! Wish I knew the answer but don't want to bs you. He couldn't screen these requests fast enough...
If you need help sooner choose or more personal his 1:1 option is below! Here’s the copy text:
He just returned from overseas training techs and his inbox is slammed with requests. He is scheduling time each day again to answer techline orders. He does not have the bandwidth to provide email replies as his schedule is full with shop customers, training schedules, and one on ones.
There's good news though! A deep dive one-on-one with him is an option. Use video, email and phone support.
Through the one-on-one service. Get Shane’s cell here: how2wrench.com/ols/products/techline-one-on-one
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pressure is pressure
, it don't care witch direction its coming from. I see no real reason that they have to be facing one way or the other, except they do have to role on the cam. I can understand why some people may think there is a benefit but but seem to me that you would know better. I may be wrong, and talking out my u no what so if anyone can give me a reason and explain it please do.
If they were new cams and roller lifters,,, the direction would not matter. Once "Mated", they share a "directional" relationship with the cam. The oil hoes make no difference in this application. The pressure is all around the lifter equally. A good practice, whether it is a pushrod, lifter, valve, piston or just a shaft,,, normally it is best to put it back in the same location as when you removed it, to prevent "ganging of tolerances" or wear to be exaggerated due to previous wear. The holes,,,,, make no diff. Sorry, they are just keeping the directional rotation the same as originally assembled.
hummm, good answer, thanks.
HD factorty school said it didn`t matter which way they went in.I`ve installed them(NEW) in both directions purposely.Mad no difference.(Retired from HD shops in 2015 after over 40 yrs of dealership service)
sir what does 90-120 lbs inches torque mean....is there a range ....what number do we put on torque wrench in this case
Yes that is the range. Anything between that range is acceptable per the manufacture. I recommend to apply this method when tightening all multi-fastener covers: 1. Lightly kiss the fasteners in a star shaped (criss-cross) pattern or as required in the manual. 2. Apply around 1/2 torque of the spec (ex. final is 120 then use 60 for step 2) repeating the pattern used in step 1. 3. Apply final tq spec. …below are some links that help support me and my work. Please subscribe and share these videos to make a difference in education!
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Shane Conley ...have already subscribed sir....love your work sir....respect and love from india....wish to meet you some day...
Thank you and likewise my friend...:)
Shane Conley ..thanks sir...i really appreciate your kind gesture of spreading knowledge...i wish i could be your student..
Great Videos! Thanks Rich
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Just pulled the lifters out of my tc88 and Harley Davidson installed them with the oil holes facing out. Did they put it together incorrectly and what damage could that have caused?
Did you get an answer
Harley is in self destruct mode...Beginning with the twin cam.
The twin cams sure made techs =some money didn't they? 😉
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Damn I have 5,000 miles on my build and can't remember how I installed mine. Wonder how long they go with the oil hole wrong.
Yup
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I need the tool for removing lifter boxes. Anyone tell me what it is. Besides 10m lol I know that. Working on s&s evo
Hey there. There are many different bolt configurations used both stock and aftermarket. Text me a photo of yours at the number below and I tell you what you need.
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Wrong oil feeds from the camp plate in not in the engine to the outside your theory is wrong face the holes out is a good practice however in most lifters it really doesnt matter
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YEPP!!!!!!!
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I have learned alot from your videos, but ur camera guys "yup" on every question is annoying. Down south we say "Yes Sir".
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Short answer - there are not!
Came across a TH-cam video that said they install there lifters oil holes facing the front came plate... 5:40 Sec's
th-cam.com/video/g84UKZg8zZk/w-d-xo.html
Not sure what the right way is...
Service manual also does not state a direction
+joshua Rivera
I will look into it and see! Thanks for pointing it out. The Manual does not specify a direction from as we both stated. (on a twin cam. It does for EVO i believe)
+joshua Rivera
Hi Joshua,
So I looked into this and my manual, a OEM 2006 (B) motor Softail manual does state to install the oil holes "inboard" side with flats front to rear. BUT>>>> A OEM 2006 Bagger (A) motor manual states it doesn't matter!
+Shane Conley
Thanks for the follow through Shane, good to see that your both great at teaching on video and following up with comments. I recently did a cam install on my 05 road king and after viewing your video I panicked and immediatly double check other sources including my shop manual. The manual I am useing dose not specify a direction other than the following,
"oil travels through passageways in the crankcase to the hydrau- lic lifter bores. Exiting a hole in each lifter bore (E16), the oil flows around the lifter and enters a hole at the side of the lifter body. As the chamber inside the lifter body is filled, the push rod socket rises to achieve the no-lash fit of the valve train components. The flow of oil then exits a hole centered in the lifter socket and runs up the hollow push rods".
I know learned there is a different regarding Bagger (A) and Softail (B) motors that i must research a little more.
Thanks for the knowledge.
-Josh
+joshua Rivera
In all reality a motor with good oil pressure and no damage would never know the difference. Teaching is tough when trying to not make "it doesn't matter" an option when in the real world many times it really doesn't...lol
Head over to my website become a member now and to receive 20 minutes of personal mentorship with me. You can even use FaceTime if you have it or find a friends iPhone and we can walk through the actual carburetor process together. I look forward to mentoring you.
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