These Smash Moves Will NEVER Return
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ส.ค. 2023
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These moves were some of the most innovative, weirdest, and sometimes broken in history but got completely rejected in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate...and many of them have one reason in common, leading many to believe we'll never see them ever again.
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In this video I break down every replaced Smash move in history. What are the real reasons why they got cut?
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We have chao garden at home:
A lot
They removed that move because bandanna waddle Dee was supposed to be in smash ultimate but that got scrapped because of covid.
Fall guys knockoff
Don't put sponsored content in the middle of the video.
Bowser's original side special was changed to a body slam. In melee, he used to just grab the enemy and bite them
he could also throw them behind him with a huge amount of knockback, or uppercut them into the air for a combo that could kill off the top at like 60%
Oh yeah he forgot about that one.
No it was a headbutt in melee. He used to head but when he would grab an opponent
@@FrankNitty-zg1th That was his Side Smash, not his Side Special. Side Special was removed in Brawl, Side Smash was removed in 4. I miss both of them terribly.
Wahoo! Was that the bite-a eighty-a seven?!?!
Snake's downsmash was likely changed because C4 already fulfils the niche of the remote activated explosive, but the C4 actually requires skill and timing, and is more fair to fight because it's always visible so if you get hit by it, you deserve the punishment.
Besides, Snake needed a faster option as a smash attack to make the character feel better to play. His current downsmash is a gift from heaven, it's fast, hits hard, and can take out people on the ledge.
As if Snake needed anything to give to his already busted moveset, there's a reason he was top tier in brawl and he's still top tier in Ultima
C4 isn't always visible
Having a delayed Smash attack like that was such a cool concept. And yes, his down smash was hardly visible contrary to C4. It was so strong.
@@dianamunoz4296Exactly, Snake didn't need a fast smash attack, he needed a nerf. And he still needs nerfs tbh
The biggest move change was luigi not having the negative zone after all these years
I was waiting for him to mention it
honestly it felt so weird not having it
One of the most weirdest but coolest final smashes
I mean wow this is Luigi at his litteral PEAK
I think you forgot that Olimar's up special in Brawl was him flinging a chain of Pikmin into the air, but was then changed to Winged Pikmin.
To be honest, Pikmin 3 (the game that introduced Winged Pikmin) didn't even exist at the time, so I guess that makes sense.
@@GmacAttack No Pikmin 3 released in August of 2013, Smash 4 came out summer of 2014
@@zaneheaston8254 I was referring to Brawl, the game that came out in March *2008.*
They removed some of the awesome moves and I hate that
Hi I’m first to replie
@@Jelly_shy_guy_man Congrats
congrats
Snake mine and DDD Waddle Toss were so much fun. They were annoying yeah but I don't think they were impossible to balance. Tho ig the DDD one was probably more of a hardware issue
I think reason the waddledees and doos were taken from Deedeedee were not because they were too big or complex, there were simply too many of them much like how there were too many Pikmin and too many Pokémon for the trainer. It’s a matter of quantity.
That’s not the reason why. they wanted bandanna waddle dee in smash.Bandanna waddle dee was supposed to be in smash but they didn’t have time to create his final smash because of Covid. Because less people was working on smash they didn’t have time to change some final smashes.
@@CoffyThecat I’m talking about the move from Brawl to four. Cause for that one that I’m pretty sure was confirmed to be a technical issue with the 3DS hardware. Though I would like to think it was just because they wanted to add Bandana Dee.
I was just thinking that they didn't like him being that cruel to his subjects
I love how he says it would be weird to have Waddle Dee as a playable character and an enemy used by another, meanwhile Robin sits quietly in the back hoping nobody notices.
@@cd31000 What?
If I were allowed to choose, I would rather fight with a beamsword than a frying pan. It's a shame they took the beamsword away from me. How else am I supposed to defend myself from Bowser?
A TASER >:D
Yeet turnips at him
Pepper spray.
I don't know if you know that, but the frying pan is a Mario RPG reference. It was peach ultimate weapon there.
@@lucasferreira9487there's no way you missed the obvious joke account
R.I.P rock smash. I think of you every time I play Trainer
My thought was that the beam sword being pluckable by Peach was a Sword in the Stone reference and if I were to guess it was removed mainly for being too strong since the beam sword has some crazy range with its smash attack.
To expand on things like Kirby's throws:
Every Smash 64 veteran is like this in some way or another. In that game, not only dod characters only have 3 specials, but they alsp only had 2 throws, forward and back. In the transition to Melee, movesets were expamded and streamlined, so now everyone gained a side special, as well as up/down throws and a pummel. Many moves changed orientation, like Ness and Link's neutral-B becoming their side-B. Likewise, Jigglypuff and Kirby had their forward throws moved to their up throws.
Many other moves got changed between games as well. Captain Falcon's iconic knee was new to Melee. His old fair was the double kicks, aka his current nair. A lot of characters in Smash 64 had a generic "star" kick as their neutral air. Now, only Mario, Link, Yoshi, Fox, Luigi, and Jigglypuff still have it. Everyone else either got something new (Kirby, Samus, Pikachu, Ness, Captain Falcon) or never had it (Donkey Kong). Kirby's current nair is what his up air used to be.
Sidenote, grabs were completely inescapable in Smash 64, and so if enough idle time passed, the character who grabbed would automatically perform a forward throw.
You know you’re allowed to call it a sex kick its not an offensive word
@@FrankEShaw05 Not everyone would know what that is. I feel like if you know "sex kick" nothing in this video wouldn't be stuff you already know, so I explained what that was for the more casual/new people that might read my comment.
@@hypotheticaltapeworm makes sense
Part of the Snake mine going away could be stage morph.
The Isabelle mine goes away after awhile iirc, while Snake's doesn't, and if the game doesn't know where to put it when morphing a stage, then it makes some sense.
Then why not just change Snake's mine to go away when stage morphing?
Honestly, I think Snake's Down-Smash mine would just explode when the platform it's on disappears.
I always thought Dededes side B could be improved by making it either like Samus’ Missile, where the projectile summoned depends on if you tilt or smash the joystick, or like Pac-Man’s Bonus Fruit, where he cycles from Waddledee to Gordo depending on the situation.
There were three options not two. Waddle Doo, Waddle Dee and Gordo
I really hate how they removed the aspect of the Luigi cyclone move, where if you mash the B button, you could rise. Which has been in smash 64, all they way to smash 4. You should had talked about it in your video, I would had loved to hear your opinion!
It was a nerf to the move rather than the move being changed altogether to a new one, so it didn't make it in
2:10 they legit have isabelle from animal crossing using landlines instead of solid snake 💀
Imagine being subscribed to Siiroth, watch all his videos and never having played Super Smash Ultimate hahaha. Don't know why but I really love this guys content 😅🤣
Yeah, I remember that Kirby in brawl and smash 4 used to do the Spinning bird kick from Chun-Li
It was one of his move in Kirby Super Star, with the Yoyo ability
@@flavienthiebault1021
Pretty sure he just making a funny comparison bro.
I prefer the change for the kick honestly because the fire ball never made that much sense to me, it's not Fire Kirby. But it doesn't connect well in Smash 4 though.
@@stormycd392 yep, I am
@@kyurei4478by your logic you should remove all of his copy abilities then since he's not hammer, sword or stone Kirby either
I started maining King Dedede in smash 4 so I didn't even know his Waddle Dee throw how did that many options.😂
Kind of surprised you didn't bring up the 'Pikmin Chain' recovery in Brawl which was replaced with the wing pikmin.
To be honest, Pikmin 3 (the game that introduced Winged Pikmin) didn't even exist at the time, so I guess that makes sense.
You forgot to talk about that Bowser's side b move in melee,koopa claw is changed to iconic side b move in brawl-ultimate
Honestly if a custom move allowed his down b instead of bowser bomb or side b instead of a command grab just throwing koopas goomabas and with specific chance of spines and a super rare chance of bomb bomb as a custom move and dede having more as well as well like waddle Dee wadle doo Gordo and a chance of spawning bandana waddle Dee since they couldn't add him because custom moves was the only reason they could mega man and pac man lost alot along with paultanea and basically I would of sacrificed world of light all the bosses and spirits for a new subspace ans custom moves returning stuff we wanted for that and I'm saying like a subspace that has an no colletbles only and no stickers making it almost impossible to beate intense yeah I would do that with every character and dlc specific mission would have been added for more customs would take a 4 year delay for that like sakrai do not rush the game I wanted to warn him but he rushed it and a bunch was cut characters story subspace mode basically I remember sakarai words and what he was talking about a rushed game is forever bad aka smash ultimate smash melee smash 64 but a delayed game can evtuly be good brawl smash 4
@@hunterculpepper1973 yeah true which makes me hopeful that they don't rush the smash bros reboot Game
babe wake up new Siiroth video just dropped
For Dedede, he can have a large amount of Waddle Dee's at the same time in stage, so similar situation to Pikmin being cut to 3
Simply just only let him spawn 2. It's not hard to solve the problem. The real issue is probably that the 3DS can't handle it
The official art show mario pointing for yoshi to attack not him hitting him however due to the limits on technology this was not as clear in the games so many people preserved it as such.
A whole lot of confusions back then could've been prevented if people would've just read their manuals! Same with some absolutely off-the-wall "theories" today.
There's 2 moves you forgot to mention.
Zero Suit Samus' Up B was originally Plasma Wire. Like her Side B but went vertical instead. Would toss enemies up in the air then back down allowing chaining. Could grab ledges and pull enemies in the air above her back down to the stage or even essentially spiking them if off the stage.
Olimar's recovery was different in Brawl due to the 6 Pikmin. Making a damaging chain to grab the ledge. And the move was useless if he didn't have any Pikmin near him.
For peach I think it makes more sense for her not picking swords is just why would a sword exist in the ground.
Yea but picking a bomb from the ground makes sense
@@ONIGIRIKINGU in the mario logic yeah since even though mario bros 2 America version actually had them, I mean what game has you pulling a sword off the ground.
@@ONIGIRIKINGU In the mario universe? Yes it does.
@@jajathenewking6131when does she use a frying pan? But also who cares if it makes logical sense if a video game reference is accurate, you should design things to be fun over accurate imo
@@illford6921 I don't think their's a time peach used a pan but she sure does make cake with it.
17:54 mario literally just points not smacking his head 💀
Fun fact : spin jump is not rejected. It was moved to Mario’s down air
I loved when Dedede threw Waddle Dees. I remember vividly wanting him to also throw Bronto Burts that home in the enemy, but I believed Sakurai would never do that since the homing mechanic isn't used much in Smash, especially for such a specific attack at that time
I miss WaddleDee throw, it was so goofy
Tbf I think the Gordo throw is a better fit for his move set but I think they should include waddle fees on his move set like 1 or 2 of his throws, get up attacks, ledge attack etc, not much but something ig. Am hoping bandana waddle dee gets on to better represent the waddle sees but hopefully dededed gets some love next smash game
@@SenderBender63I think they should replace Jet Hammer and have him throw Waddle Dees and Waddle Doos from down special (Like a tilt/smash input. Some moves already do it like Samus's missiles)
Jet Hammer is the most boring uninspired move in his kit and if there was one move I would cut from him it would 100% be the Jet Hammer. He already has enough extremely strong moves on top of that
@@Mattroid99 tbf if there was one move to go it’d be that, it’s a fun move but overlaps too heavily with some of his other ledge trap moves and strong kill moves, I’d say move Gordon to down b and side b replaced with some kind of hammer spin from the Kirby series, think ice climber side b but slower, stronger, bigger and having some degree of armour, would give him a more reliable kill move, burst movement option, potentially making zoning him harder as well as being a concrete reference to Kirby. Could even retain some form of jet hammer if charged but that’s just my thoughts. Not so sure about waddle Dee throwing but some more integration of the waddle sees in his kit would be nice even if just cosmetic or replacing certain throwaway moves like up throw using waddle dees, I never played brawl so I don’t know how it used to work but could be an interesting idea for making him or more viable character in the future
@@SenderBender63 It is a big reason why DDD's ledgetrap works since is the only applicable tool he has that kills and hits below the ledge, but I'd rather have that nerfed and have the character way more complete overall
A fast hammer spin on how DDD is designed makes little to no sense, his moves are all very slow and impactful when you land them and would not fit his defensive archetype. References should be second to a more cohesive design, same reason why I think a lot of "moveset reworks" made by smashtubers are godawful.
Waddle Dees spawning just for a quick throwaway animation is kind of a waste, is the same thing they did with Peach and even for her Toad makes little to no sense for her throws.
I'd rather have him do something with them in a move as it requires way more creativity than just throw them in a random animation and call it a day.
Dededee’s Gordo throw could be replaced with a Waddle dee or Waddle doo.
Great video is this the best one yet
I always thought the whole Waddle Dee thing was to give the player a little more control over projectile considering you can now adjust the angle/movement of the Gordo rather than getting a random Dee/Doo/Gordo.
Or at least that's what I like to think
Cool vid but you got few things wrong. Fix has always had a rapid fire laser blaster, and Falco has always had Fox’s old blaster, the stun blaster from Smash 64, it shoots slower on the ground and stuns the enemy.
Wario has always had his shoulder bash move. In Brawl it was his side smash attack,
Luigi’s up B still catches the enemy on fire. It’s easier to see when you land the aerial version,
Also Yoshi still has his Forward Air for a head attack but all there other are indeed gone,
Wario lost the move in Wii U/3DS but yeah the video doesn't specify anything he just mentions how people rejoiced when seeing the move in Ultimate.
God I miss Dedede’s old side special, it’s still my favourite move in the series, I honestly sometimes play Brawl just for that move
The spoiler was so well hidden,congrats bro.
How could you miss Peachs Bitch slap foward throw from melee, imo funniest move in the game
LMFAO @ Pit flying all the way from the bottom to above the screen. That recovery really is ridiculous. 11:50 had me dying. Jff
I think the reason for Dedede's change was because he's become a good guy, and good guys don't throw their subjects around like toys. Take notes, Peach.
I never played much or any of Melee and Brawl- so this video is very interesting. I NEVER know about Sheik's chain.
20:34 I immediately thought of that episode of The Super Mario Super Show.
man i love vids like this
17:24 what? all smash mario has from mario world is his side B and maybe his old down air. i dont get how thats "half" of his moveset
He didn't mention that Kirby's Dash attack in Brawl and Smash 4 is one of his move in Kirby Super Star, with the Yoyo ability
28:45 *R O B I N F I N A L S M A S H*
But what about the Miis Removed moves? Brawler had a ton
24:10 YO THATS MY CLIP I MADE IT INTO A SIIROTH VID LETS GO
Charizard used to Spew Flames for his F-Air, but now it's a Claw Swipe.
He used to spew fire around during his up B too in Brawl, giving it a fire effect.
@@kyurei4478 I didn't actually know that.
@@jacobs5546 It's a very cool animation.
I think we can all agree Kirby’s Braw and Smash 4 dash attack was sick, and I really hope it comes back in some kind of way, maybe replacing his down smash.
Kirby's Brawl Dash Attack was garbage
@@illford6921 I mean come on, he literally breakdances for Christs sake, how is that not cool?
In Brawl, Sonic’s dash attack was yet another spin dash, while by Ultimate it became a kick instead. Sounds fitting considering he already had two separate spin dash specials, but the old dash attack let you keep momentum and go through opponents, and I think it had a chance to trip. It was the perfect harasser tool, letting you stay in the opponent’s face quite safely and build up percentage. The current DA is fine, but it also brings Sonic to a stop and isn’t nearly as useful. Sure, the rest of his kit is still there, but this one change honestly makes him harder to use in my opinion.
Fox actually had his lasers changed in Melee. With Falco having N64 Fox's lasers (being able to deal hitstun while firing slower)
mentioning bowser without mentioning the koopa klaw is pure degeneracy
You're wrong about Wario, he did have his shoulder bash in Brawl, it was his f smash instead
You should've mentioned that not only was Warios iconic shoulder bash not in Smash 4 but it WAS in Brawl and they... Removed it? Yeah they just straight up removed Warios most iconic attack what were they thinking?
The Shoulder Bash actually does return in Ultimate. It's now his Dash Attack rather than his F-Smash!
@@cloudycloud7666 I... Already know that?
@@TheDemonChara Oh! Thought you didn't
@@cloudycloud7666 No hard feelings, unless it's something fairly obscure chances are I know movesets from Smash game to Smash game
I thought so too but is this a mod then ? 14:38
I did enjoy that Fox uses the base blaster, while Falco uses the hyper blaster, although I wish there was a reference to the spinning blaster from Star Fox 64.
Brawl Zero Suit Samus starts with pieces of the Power Suit before they break apart, because when she uses her old final smash (Cristal Flash) she would turn into Power Suit Samus (the opposite happen when Power Suit Samus uses her final smash)
Bowser in Smash feels more like a baby Godzila than Bowser.
I miss when Dedede throw the Waddle Dee and Doo at you, if they try to bring that move, it could combine with the Gordo throwing but with a random percentage like Faust of Guilty Gear, where he can throw items at the enemy, but they would be random and even affect Faust.
They were random in Brawl. They all had different % chances with Gordon being the lowest mainly because it used to be a lot stronger
it might just be me, but i feel like the reason king dedede's side special got changed to only throw gordons was simply to make the attack more straightforward
he's essentially meant to be sluggish and powerful, but still very simple to learn in the long run. having an attack that essentially relies on RNG was probably seen as ill-fitting for this theme behind the moveset, so the waddle dees and waddle doos likely had to be cut to make the attack more simple to better fit dedede being intended as a heavyweight that's easy for newcomers to pick up
that's just how i see it tho so take it with a grain of salt lol
Continuing with Kirby
His 64 Nair and Fair were never seen again. The Nair getting replaced by his 64 Uair and the Fair becoming a three hit combo in melee
Kirby's aerial Side B in melee was a vertical hammer spin, but in Brawl it was changed to be a horizontal hammer spin that also stalled his air momentum.
In both of these games, the move couldnt be charged, it was press and go, but Smash 4 allowed it to be charged (and absolutely destroyed the frame data)
From a devoted Kirby main
7:20 There's actually a decent amount of people still playing Smash 3DS years after its prime. I still play it often and it usually only takes about a minute/minute and a half to match with someone online.
I like how you point at a grenade instead of Snakes C4 at 1:18 😂
Kirby's breakdance is a reference to yoyo Kirby if I recall correctly, since he uses a similar move when dashing
I think for King Dedede they could change it to where he can just throw other enemies and doesn't have to be Waddle Dee's or at least one of the projectiles being a bomb or something they should just make it be a mash up of different things, maybe like 4 projectiles each one different he could also throw apples from Green Greens stage.
4:18 “and after years and years of waiting” **proceeds to show Pikmin 4**
I’ve never been this early enjoy the vids
You should talk about Sakarai's beef with Bowser and his favorites like Kirby and Kid Icarus or something like it
20:15 well now she has a sword, just not a laser one
"Really, who asked for that?"
*poppt1 has left the chat in tears*
F'S FOR BANDANA DEE
There's a universe out there where Captain Falcon's knee of justice never made it into Smash. In Smash 64 his old neutral air was a standard sex kick while his old forward air was his double kick. Every character in 64 aside from Donkey Kong had that sex kick nair, so some characters like Kirby, Pikachu, and Ness were given new ones in Melee (Samus' wasn't changed till Smash 4). Captain Falcon's fair was moved to being his nair, so the new fair he was given was the knee.
28:45 Chrom being a playable character in Ultimate while still being in Robin's final smash: Am I a joke to you?
I really miss Peach's Beam sword! 😂 I remember I made a vid about it back in the day! 😂
It made no sense... I admit it. But it was sooooo cool! ❤
I loved Olimar's 6 pikmin :c
That "Generic kick" is actually one of the CQC attacks that recurs throughout the MGS series.
Despite ganondorf swinging his sword for his smash attacks, he is still a semiclone of captain falcon. Now we need to replace all of his moves.
you went full matpat on the yoshi conspiracy
Forgot to mention that Zero lost her forward smash and up special.
I remember Sonic also had a changed Down Smash, which I kind of don't get. Sure, it was another spin move, but it honestly looked pretty cool. Besides, he had tons of spin moves to replace, and they changed his Down Smash? Why not a new Side B? Plus, they just gave him a reskin of Fox and Falco's Down Smashes. I'm not saying that it's my favorite pick, I would rather see something from actual source material, like Sonic Flare from Sonic Battle. But I do kinda prefer his Brawl Down Smash to his recent one. Then again, you can say that about a couple things from Brawl, like his Final Smash and animations. I won't say voice actor, since I enjoy Roger Craig Simth's performance, but I do wish they gave him different lines. Too bad they couldn't get Smith. Maybe next Smash, he can finally get some new and better moves.
They changed the DSmash because it sucked
@OldManTastic. Still looked better than the generic split kick he got in Sm4sh and Ultimate.
@@petesoys6348no it was a worse move. Granted all of Sonic's moves were bad but at the same time they probably just picked the least essential ball move which is very obviously the down smash which never got used
@@petesoys6348that split kick has good impact as well. That ball does feel strong
the bowser thing was actually this animation technique called squash and stretch
I think Bowser and Yoshi had a lot of their headbashing moves replaced because their models became less animalistic and more cartoony, in line with their own games. If they kept the headbutt, they'd have to redo the animation anyway, because it wouldn't have fit the new models. So they gave the moves complete overhauls instead. That's my theory, anyway.
On icies you can still do the original two sided one due to nanas delay you can desync it and get it going both ways
I miss Dedede's waddle dee throw
I like to think Peach's beam saber was a reference to the rocket ships you could pull up in Mario 2
In Smash 4, the Down B getting the Beam Sword would get Peach players banned on For Glory.
I hate that companies pander to the competitive scene when that makes up the smallest population of players
Aparently it's because too many people where seeing smash as just a fighting game, when it was made to be a party game so they cut a lot of creative pieces and also the bigger smash ball cutscenes
King Dedede stopped throwing Waddle Dees, because it was just cruel to the waddle dees.
26:36 beam attack
Funny
I’m surprised you got smash on 3DS to boot up. It’s corrupted for a lot of people
0:31 Lmao, the timing on that F-Zero joke! Of course like a month after you post the vid nintendo does something with the franchise after decades of nothing lol
Correction: Charizard's Rock Smash was in Brawl, but only in Subspace Emissary. It's not a change unique to Wii U and 3DS.
Charizard always had Rock smash until Ultimate, rock smash isn’t only in subspace emissary
I still miss the landmine down smash 😢
13:20 i also thought it was a reference but the Smash one is a downards punch, while the Mario Move one is a fowards punch, it may be a reference but nothing THAT similar
The only certain reference of a Smash move in the Mario Movie is peach's Side B
15:24 yoooo honestly was BROKEN!🤣I miss that move...😭
yes, but for professional players these moves are rubbish for them because it is possible to avoid during the move :(
I know there's some kind of fan mod somewhere that makes bandana Dee of fully playable character
I miss rock smash. Flareblitz annoys me more than anything else; not only is it almost always a bad idea but it carries you off ledge so depending on the stage its never a good idea.
Sith lord Peach in the thumbnail.
Wheres my boy Link? Fierce Diety used to be scary, now he has sleeves rolled up, god i hate Breath of the wild
28:51 Totally could not be Chrom...
if waddle dee ever comes to smash, waddle doo better be an alt
17:42 - Ayo, wait a minute. What is that, a mod or ROM hack? Cause I don't remember being able to ride Yoshi in Super Mario 64.
dawg I'm still waiting for Bandana Dee both the hopium and copium was so hard when the Fighter Packs were coming out 😭