How I Managed To Escape a Martial Arts Cult
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มิ.ย. 2021
- After being a part of a martial arts organization for 10 years I realized I was part of a cult. This is a story of how I escaped it.
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Welcome to the Martial Arts Journey TH-cam channel!
My name is Rokas. I'm a Lithuanian guy who trained Aikido for 14 years, 7 of them running a professional Aikido Dojo until eventually I realized that Aikido does not live up to what it promises.
Lead by this realization I decided to make a daring step to close my Aikido Dojo and move to Portland, Oregon for six months to start training MMA at the famous Straight Blast Gym Headquarters under head coach Matt Thornton.
After six months intensive training I had my first amateur MMA fight after which I moved back to Lithuania. During all of this time I am documenting my experience through my TH-cam channel called "Martial Arts Journey".
Now I am slowly setting up plans to continue training MMA under quality guidance and getting ready for my next MMA fight as I further document and share my journey and discoveries.
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If you want to support my journey, you can make a donation to my PayPal at info@rokasleo.com
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Check the video "Aikido vs MMA" which started this whole Martial Arts Journey:
► • Aikido vs MMA - REAL ...
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#cults #martialarts #cult
After reading the comments I wanted to clarify something. I personally believe (and some experts tend to say the same) that there are levels of cults. Most people though when they talk about cults - think only about extreme cases. The organization I was a part of had strong cult like tendencies and I do believe it qualifies to be a cult, but there are way worse destructive cults out there. In the end the goal of this video is not to point fingers or to make conclusions. The goal is to inspire people to question the organizations they belong to and to become more aware of what cults are - whether extreme, or cult-like.
It's my belief that it's important that we would all question what effect people and organizations around us have and to make sure that we would choose to maintain the positive ones and be careful with the negative ones. I hope this video will help the viewers in such a journey.
Telltale is a TH-cam creator I would love to hear you talk to who specializes in cults you would learn a lot from him. Cults are on a spectrum. I have been trying to figure out why I find this channel so fascinating since I haven't been active in martial arts for over thirty years. With this video, I recognized that it is my fascination with cults and also group think that can occur like upholding ineffective practices. I was heavily involved with a "high demand" new age group for about five years in my early 20's and have been fascinated with cult dynamics since then trying to make sense of how as an ordinarily rational person I had rationalized that I was not in a cult. I say "high demand" because they still did not control many aspects of my life and leaving resulted in a few annoying phone calls, but no one threatened me, there was more of an MLM vibe to the whole experience.
I truly enjoy your videos👍. Thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts. The editing is also great and your English magnificent. Keep up the good work! A fan from Paraguay.
I'm glad you clarified that. Depending on your approach you can classify any type of group situation as cult like. Another logical fallacy is using anecdotal experience to generalise about phenomena. Anyway, I totally
respect your martial arts journey. It depends on what we are all looking for. I have found the best way to diffuse hostile and aggressive situations is with a smile, a joke, a gentle word of understanding. Aikido teaches me how to do that. In that sense, it is an incredibly effective martial art. Would it work in the mma ring? I don't know. If I was faced with some thugs in the street I'd probably run away. I think that's a far better strategy than 'testing' my aikido to 'see if it works' and ending up with facial scars. Anyway, keep up the interesting videos. The martial arts journey has many paths. Osu.
There is another kind of CULTISTS... and they are the Cult of the ANTI-CULT. A great example are those that use religion to abuse their children... twisting the words of the bible into a weapon for abuse and punishment. Their children tend to end up running into Satanism. They then openly attack any and every Religious person.. without any provocation.. simply because they are full of hate, rage, and judgements.
Both the Adult, and the Children... are presenting the EXACT same toxic behaviors. They are just using a different VEHICAL to use as a justification, which helps mask their natural Extremists behaviors. (Personality Disorders / Mental Health issues.. which encompass: Abuses, Control Freaks, OCD, Black and White thinking, emotional issues, self control issues, and much more)
You can also see Opposing Cults like effects in the Masses, in the form of Pop Culture. One massive fanbase enjoying a certain entertainment.. such as "Fortnight"... and another massive base, that HATES the very mention of it.
What about the people whom have a natural non-bias.. .and a HEALTHY spectrum... rather than an Extremists perspectives + radical emotional responses? Thing is... the healthy people tend not to get involved... and they Radicals make the most NOISE and do the most DESTRUCTION... because, they are by their vary natures... Extremists. They have little self control... and their Emotional states BLIND them to unbiased LOGICAL and RATIONAL thought patterns / arguments.
You again... are still Painting a picture, that has your own personal BIAS in it... against things that you do not like, do not fully understand, and have some limited experience within. BUT.. that does not mean that everyone had the same kinds of experiences that you have had. That many things you think contain little to no value.. .have proven to others.. to be invaluable, and have worked flawlessly.
You can only relay to others what you have personally experienced.. BUT... people like yourself need to realize.. that in order to find the higher truths.. .you can not simply Demonize everything out there... with your personal Bias, and limited experiences.
There are many Artists and Fanboys that both Over-Estimate Bruce Lee... as well as Severely Under-Estimate him. Likewise... both such people tend to try to hunt down specific Quotes, and or examples.. .which prove their chosen BIAS. The problem is... these Excepts do not tell the full truth of the Story. For example... At one time, Lee stated that his former Wing Chun training was not enough... and had too many flaws within it. That was at the beginning of his Career. However... years later... he made some realizations... that he was missing a lot of critical knowledge from the WC Art... and he brought Yip Man bags of money... trying to "BUY" that missing knowledge from him. Those that had that Bias against WC... NEVER knew this CRITICAL bit of information... because they were too Shallow in their BIASED research levels. They were not REALLY interested in the ACTUAL TRUTH... but instead... wanted to create a FALSE REALITY... where the "Truth" that they want to hear and feel... matches their existing Bias and Perspectives.
Its the same with those that think Lee was only an Actor... but had never seen Lees custom training devices, nor read up on his daily training + workout routines. His frequent cross training with masters. Sparring. And much more. They simply want to believe, that Lee always and ever was.. an action star actor... with no real combat abilities. They will use a variety of excuses... such as "Lee never fought in any Tournaments"... which is logically flawed and laughable. Ive easily defeated many artists that have participated and won many Full Contact competitions... yet, I never entered any of them myself. Such a thing was never important to me... as its mostly just a limited "Game", that holds very little real world value in actual barefist combat capabilities.
But as Ive said... BIAS and Radical thoughts, emotions, and behaviors... can lead people far away from the actual Truths. Fact is... most people HATE the Truth... because it tend to hurt those that are not opened to it, and or are against what it says, and or says about them.
But... the Truth is very important... especially in high level combat. You cant win a fight, using your EGO. If you let your EGO go, and can embrace new knowledge.. you might get higher skillsets opened up to you.. which CAN help greatly in your ability to do well in a real world, hostile situation.
@@johndough8115 Just, WOW.
This whole "escaping a martial arts cult"-thing sounds like a great idea for a martial arts movie though
There is a movie called “the art of self defense”, check it out
I prefer a sutton hoo movie, and you too
The problem is no one would really know how to fight.. It could work as a comedy though?
That would! Imagine having to fight your way out, each fight being more difficult than the last until you fight the final big boss Sensei on your way to freedom.
Ninja Assassin
My Aikido instructors encourage students to practice other martial arts. They believe that Aikido is more of an add on martial art than a complete one. It didn't feel like a cult. We even talk about MMA a lot since some of theme are MMA fighters. They even ask how my Muay Thai training is going. I miss training with them. We do a lot of sparring and pressure testing afterclass. My instructors even laugh when they fail to attempt an Aikido move during sparring. I hope there are other schools like that.
I've said this in the past. I've especially thought it when I started taking Aikido and read about O'sensei's life. most recently, I seen rare footage of him in his dojo. lots of training going on , he's sitting in the middle courtyard like a smiling statue.😳
I concur! Aikido has good defensive footwork, blending and defensive Taisabaki, that makes a good addition to other arts.👍💮
Glad to hear that
I feel sorry for Rokus former students. It looks like they waste it there time and money.
You seem to have a very good instructor
Thanks for sharing your perspective and Congrats for setting your mind free. This cult mindset has been seeping into a lot of mainstream culture including universities, news outlets and politicos parties. It takes strong character and courage to live free of such control.
You know why I like my BJJ professor? He takes lessons from an even more advanced black belt.
Never stop learning, bros
BJJ Professor, is it he is a professor or that you call him that. Where did or is this college or university at that trains BJJ Professor at? Just wondering.
@@christopherspohn8071 I think we call them professor because we call the place we train at an academy
@@DylanJo123 sorry for butting into the conversation but I’m pretty sure we call them professors because like many other martial arts we use an alternate word for teacher. But that’s just what I think :)
@@christopherspohn8071 your bjj black belt that instructs is called Professor.
Thank you, I learn so much by listening to your experiences. As a Judo instructor I don't want to have this cult teaching model. It's interesting how many of the elements you share were taught to us, but I believe it is our responsibility to get ride of them to make our groups better. Thanks a lot Rokas
🙏
Hey Rokas, what you say about them making you feel like your decisions are wrong and that they are the only ones with the truth is called disorganized attachment. It is something done in cults and abusive relationships, where the source of anxiety and confort is the same person. They convince you you are not good enough and that you need them so you never leave.
I only started learning martial arts recently, that's why I started following your channel.
But holy cow! Is this relatable. A few years ago I was party of a college band that functioned exactly like this. I know some toxic groups of friends that do the same as well. Even a political party of which I was briefly a member functioned like this.
I guess cults are everywhere around us. And not all of them are rampantly obvious. It's good to learn about it so that we can identify and defend ourselves against the bullsh*t people try to shove down our throats.
For better or for worse. a cult... by definition is how most of the world works. It's only bad when when the people in question takes advantage of it though. And even then some gets a positive experience out of it. But don't let that stop you from doing any specific martial art though. And ask away at your teacher's. Especially outside normal practice where you normally just go through the motions. And expect honest, face value answers. No good teacher, implying someone that does it as a volunteer on his or her own freetime, will readily turn you down, rack down on others, or otherwise exhibit poor behavior.
I recently got back into taekwondo myself and is now together with my brother one of the two mainstay trainers in the young club. Through this and the founder (master) of the club we've gotten insight into more or less every issue in the traditional setting of a martial art. Which usually cooks down to: "rules imposed on us by society, associations and law trumphs your status as a master". Things they didn't have to care about 40-50 years ago. Especially not in Asia. And some new things through hard to understand bureaucratic processes. That makes us disobedient apparently hah!
I do love teaching though when I see everyone looking like cooked lobsters and still smiling. I strive for a good mood/energy above all else. And if we're doing something whacky cause we're required to for whatever reason I will be the first one to say if it's got practical application or to highlight something spiritual, just for fun. I'm not at all good enough to hide weither I know something or not... yet. So I've left that out being kinda obvious. Anyhow some of us are trying so I feel a great deal of shame when people have experiences like these. Like even if that master was speaking the truth when he racked down on everyone leaving. That's not a good rhetoric. Especially when you're preaching aikido (the art/way/path of love). In retrospect should've probably been a big red warning button lighting up about then
As a Swiss Karateka and general fan of the Martial Arts, I am somehow sorry that this happened to you in my country. As you probably know, we are not exactly known for cults and scams, but I guess it can happen anywhere. I wonder if it was the Dojo in Montreux....
I learned a lot through watching this video. My eyes are more open to not only schools I've been part but organizations outside of martial arts as well. Thank you for posting this video!
I follow a simple rule: Martial Arts is about fighting (and Warfare) not about asking some philosophical questions. Don't care about your personal beliefs etc. show me how to throw a punch, swing a sword and stop mubo jumbo things. If i want that i go read nitzche, voltare or whatever then go to discuss it with other people who into philosophy too.
Becoming angry at your questions is classic attempt to control. Glad you saw through it at that time.
Man, you're brave! Much respect!
🙏
I had exactly the same experience with my first Aikido dojo. My teacher, whom I thought was a wise man that knew everything, proved to be in fact a manipulative man who saw nothing else but to control us. He was always trying to help you and guide you but when you didn't do what he wanted he became very vengeful and insulting, up to a point that will make you feel bad and in a way that make you think it was your fault. I tried to correct my mistakes and become better, but he was still treating me like garbage. When I decided to leave the dojo, he and a lot of the other members where caught completely by surprise. His motives behind this behavior was obviously money, the more he had you obedient the more you stayed there and pay him to "teach" you, but I believe there are other reasons too. These people know what they tell you is bullshit and try to hide their own insecurities by acting one time as wise teachers and the other as oppressors. They need this "wise" teacher's role and if you oppose them, they will do anything to make you look bad. Without it, they are simply nothing. Empty men with nothing to offer..
It's amazing how often you see these cults in traditional MA.
It’s the lack of sparring I think that causes it. They have no way of testing their stuff so it’s purely theoretical which is something that usually breeds cult mentality.
So true!
MMA has cult-like aspects, also - like fighters cooperating so that they don't cause career-ending injuries to their opponents (think Jon Jones oblique kick debacle), and as such don't use true violent intent, and all the blood is just superficial like you see in the sport of Rugby. However, Rokas seems to have been sucked in by all the smoke and mirrors that presents MMA bouts as examples of non-cooperative partners fighting with true violent intent. It's just not the case though, and so MMA bouts are no proof of effectiveness of real violent encounters with non-cooperative partners. Perhaps he has moved from one MA cult to another?
@@MichaelT83310safe sparring only tests your ability to strike/grab a moving non-violent (and thus cooperative) partner under the pressure of being safely struck/grabbed yourself. It doesn't effectively test techniques that will likely injure you in sport career-ending ways, or your MA techniques against a truly violent non-cooperative partner. TMAs, on the other hand, tend to train for that other REAL LIFE ON THE STREETS scenario - where there is truely violent non-cooperative sports career-ending intent. Safe sparring just cannot test that real life street scenario. Don't get sucked into the MMA cult regarding this matter. Sparring is SAFE AND COOPERATIVE, the streets are not.
@Benjamin Hausmann that world champ sportsman who is used to 'fighting' non-violent cooperative partners empty-handed should try fighting a Filipino knife master to the death with a knife (a REAL fight - the kind you can find easily in places like Glasgow, Scotland). Let's see what happens...
"Never give up on your dreams" -Rokas sleeping 20 hours straight.
Haha, you beat my record of 17 hs.
Anyway, thanks for sharing your story and make it easier for us to spot cults.
🙏
Giving up on Aikido he gave up on his dreams... so sad
I slept for over 28 hours once
@@louisguzzo6189 He's practicing many martial arts and has a channel where he tries to make the world of martial arts a better place. I'd say he's living the dream even better than he thought.
@@tafua_a I disagree. There is Aikido. Nothing else
From my own experiences studying martial arts here in the US, this problem is rampant in martial arts schools across a wide variety of styles.
I had a somewhat similar experience as a teenager, into my early 20s, some twenty years ago. All the same things about the head instructor never being wrong, the people who leave being vilified, the constant questions and tests of loyalty, etc.
In a lot of ways, I was carrying the school. The owner/head-instructor was never around. The instructors who were scheduled for class would frequently not show up, or claim they were too tired to teach class. While I was officially scheduled for teaching one beginner class a night, I ended up teaching all the beginner, intermediate, and advanced classes most nights of the week, including the two of the three advanced class a week I was supposed to be taking. Oh, I got into great shape! But I was spending all my time at the dojo. I had no social life.
When I told the owner that I would be taking the summer off in a couple of months for an internship in another city, he blew up on me. I realize now that it was because he recognized there would be nobody around to keep the school running. He gave me a similar false-choice of not taking the internship and staying as a regular student to "work my way back up" to instructor, or just leave. Thankfully, by that point, I was clear headed enough to see that choice as a betrayal. We *had* been close, he knew I was doing well in my studies and that I'd have to leave one day for my career, and I gave plenty of notice. I chose to leave. He threatened to sue me for back class fees, so I filed a labor complaint against him for several months of back pay he owed.
It hurt, a lot. I tried to find other schools to study at. The very next place I tried, the owner/head-instructor told me he told everyone I had trained before but wanted me to start at whitebelt to learn their system. He must not have actually told anyone about that, because several of the students ended up feeling humiliated after sparring with me. I can only figure that he hid my training from them to use me to humiliate his blackbelts. I'm not saying I was great and wiped the floor with them, but gave as good as I got, and can see how one might question themselves if they thought they were fighting a beginner. It blew up politically on him and then he tried to humiliate me over it.
I bounced around and saw the same head instructor cult of personality everywhere. I ended up in about 10 different schools over the course of 5 years. There was only one that didn't have the hallmarks of a cult, a BJJ school, where I learned that none of my previous training really meant anything, that my suspicions that these McDojos were teaching crap had all been true. I got injured there and just didn't have it in my heart to continue studying anymore.
It took me another 10 years to figure out what was wrong. I couldn't stand the site of martial arts schools anymore. I was deeply depressed. It didn't help that most of the jobs I got after college were at similarly abusive corporations. I gained a lot of weight. I've tried to get back into training, but it's way harder now, and I can't find it in myself to use a McDojo as just a cardio workout without getting emotionally invested.
I eventually got some therapy and got out of the depression. I'm doing very well in my career at a company I love. I have a family now, with a wife and two great kids. I have kind of wanted to get back into martial arts, but I'm extremely reluctant to even try. I have occasionally run into my old instructor whenever I visit back home and seeing him doesn't trigger the anxiety it used to anymore (there is certainly a bit of schadenfreude helping, in seeing that he hasn't grown at all, validating I made the right choice to leave).
But knowing what is out there, I just can't do it. And I certainly don't want to expose my kids to something I won't even expose myself to. Which has caused some minor arguments in my extended family, weirdly with my mother and my father-in-law, who don't agree on anything else. But for the most part, even though I am not very healthy, I'm pretty happy. And maybe that's enough? Well, probably not "enough", but certainly better off in sum total than I've ever been.
You've made the right call, basing your decisions on what you want for yourself.
You should be proud of that.
When it comes to whether or not you want to train somewhere though, remember how "real" the style/system/sport is can also be a secondary concern.
I really wish that my dad and I had done more things together, "real" or not.
He always asks why I dropped out of swimming, even though I reached a competitive level. When I asked him back why he didn't start swimming with me if it meant a lot to him, he was actually shocked he didn't think of it.
He swims with my younger siblings now, and it's good for all of them.
Just remember that if your kids want to learn a martial art, the "realness" of it might not be what they care about.
You should consider doing it with them, it could mean they'll always have great memories of it, and that's more important than learning to fight.
This is scary stuff and happens far too often, not just in the Martial Arts, but in many other communities as well. But you have navigated it very well I think. I would argue that this experience was maybe one of the most important lessons Martial Arts attempts to convey, which is that you can stand up to those who would oppress you and you can be your own person. You have created yourself from this experience and without it you would not be the person you are today.
While it truly sucked to be sure, it gave you the tools to grow strong and seek and eventually share with us your journey, which even now you continue. In this way you have done more than most have in the Martial Arts community and you have put yourself out there at risk of ridicule for the sake of truth and the journey. This takes great courage. You have taken a very negative and painful life experience and turned it into a positive growth experience. I am very happy you continue to share these things and I have enjoyed watching and, in a vicarious way, sharing in the journey. Well done, keep going! You are doing great things.
You are offering a great service by sharing your experience and helping newer students not be drawn into the cultivate aspects of martial arts… bravo and thank you 🙏🏽
One of the best videos you've ever made. This highlights the dangers and method of cults of all kinds, not just martial arts. Churches are pretty much the same.
churches, gangs, martial arts clubs, certain activist groups, Clans like KKK, even big chunck of politics and so on...
Not any church is the same. The martial arts is a demonic cult with roots in eastern godless cults .
Churches say they're churches the martial arts disguises itself as self defense, when it is a dangerous cult.
This is informative and cool for you to share from your journey. I also really like the animation when you first arrived there lol
Thanks David! Really appreciate your thoughts on the animation. It's a new thing I'm trying which takes extra effort, so I'm glad to hear it's paying off! More will come then :)
That's it my man, own your journey for sure
I’m glad you realized the issue and made better choices. This is a real problem in martial arts. I’ve been posting about this for years hoping to earn enough people to save them from such issues. Thanks for making the video.
Thank you for being some time ago, the light I needed to move forward 🙏🏼🌸
Well done for walking away and metaphorically going to the mountains to learn. Teachers who want to control you, not nurture you, do not want you to followed the path less trodden.
Fear is something I know probably a little too much since even I am guilty of utilizing fear (a lot) as the class president of a motley crew class and I’m quite ashamed of that, I am now on the right track I think with help from my Coach and Parents
my father was a small time cult leader that led a group of christian bikers. growing up in a cult environment makes it extremely difficult to recognize the issues at hand, but once you do recognize them, you feel like it should have been obvious. but that's the thing. cults wouldn't function if it was obvious. gaining external knowledge that allows you to put the pieces together is difficult when immersed, and if it does happen, it means that suddenly your whole life is a lie. when confronted with this, many people will fold and go back to the cult, because the mental and emotional toll leaving would take is too much to bear.
i'm so glad that you were able to get out. i hope that your experience will allow you to help people in the future who might be in a similar situation.
I found your channel tonight through nothing more than a passing curiousity in Wing Chung. I had probably less than a year of Kendo and Judo combined during elementary school. What I am quite learned in however, is psychology, patterns of abuse, and cults. This is an excellent video, even by my standards this presents your experience in a very approachable way that provokes the viewer to look back on their own instructors and question whether any of this applies to them in retrospect.
Thank you for sharing your story, and for citing resources like the BITE model which people can use to evaluate their own experiences. I'm going to look through more of your videos, you seem very knowledgeable and honest, two qualities which can be hard to find💜
Thank you for this video! I was not a live-in student where I trained, but the second half of this video fits my former school very well. My former school often struggled to retain students and had a high turn over rate. Skilled former students were generally not spoken about well and the teacher was always right. If I asked about a doubt I had with the teachings, I was told they couldn't teach me if I had doubts- instead of trying to alleviate those doubts. We were expected to believe all we were taught (if we were "good" students). One of the hardest things for me to reconcile is all the good that came with the bad from that experience. It was not a healthy environment, but I believe the instructors often meant well. I did learn to trust my instincts and to pay attention to when I felt uncomfortable around someone. Your video helped put all this in perspective for me.
I’ve been following your channel for sometime. Being someone that has a similar experience I had a feeling you were going to get to this. Good for you.
It's a big showing of strength and courage to talk about this, and generosity also to share it for those who could face the same situation. Good for you that you get out of this before you get sucked in it for long. Hopefully that may helped others question the place also.
Big cheers, man
I was really moved by your video. Your truthfulness, dedication, discipline, and ability to endure. I will say this, all that pain you endured (although wrong to inflict on another person) made you stronger mentally and physically. And in the end, you did became a great martial artist because you have to do what works
Thank you for sharing.
It is hard for us, cult survivors, to open up about the trauma we have.
But it helps both ourselves to move on and others to recognise it and avoid.
Best wishes in owning your journey.
I really do appreciate your videos!! Always so modest, humble, and thoughtful.
You are such a talented story teller Rokas. I've listened to this a few times and always find it fascinating. Thank you for being vulnerable and sharing this experience with us; I hope many people can benefit from it.
I truly appreciate your honesty and frankness in discussing your journey. Many people will not be so forthcoming in admitting faults and insecurities - though we all have them. It's good to see someone being relatable, as I try to do the same. I wish you luck on the rest of your journey, I'm sure you will continue doing well for yourself and for others.
Outstanding! Well put.
thank's for sharing this video !!!
I really enjoyed this video! I was a Krav Maga instructor for quite a few years, and when I respectfully questioned some things, and the treatment of other instructors, I was told I was being divisive and toxic to the community. So I was removed. It wasn’t till I was out that I realized the psychological toll being in that community had been having on me.
Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for sharing 👍👍👍👍👍
Hey Rokas fans, make sure to check out an interview I did with him talking about his next competitive fight: th-cam.com/video/qeBHupScO78/w-d-xo.html
It’s good that you are educating others on these types of situations 👍
Great video sir, an eye opener for life
Sensei also holds Gaslighting-do 9th dan
😁
This video is fascinating, one of my favorites. I feel like at some point in our lives everyone is involved with a group that exhibits cult-like behavior (even if it's not directly a cult). Lots to learn from experiences like this.
This video resonated with me SO much! Thank you for sharing this. Your experience was very much like my experience almost 20 years ago. With the exception of having even an illusion of the option to leave the school, I was told during a phone conversation with my martial arts teacher (who lived 150 miles away) to just never come back.
I began training in the school as a 29 year old public school teacher (with a successful career, life goals outside of martial arts, and critical and discerning head on my shoulders) having already trained for over 10 years in other martial arts. I was a fully capable, professional adult living on my own and supporting myself.
While I trained hardcore in the school for four years, and learned a TON of skills, achieving a high degree of proficiency, I realized later that I was (to a certain extent) being groomed as a sort of mini-me to my teacher. When my goals outside of the school finally superseded HIS goals for me (namely, I fell in love with the woman who later became my wife and the mother of my kids) I was essentially kicked out for reasons I later discovered as too proud, not being a good follower, disrespecting his teachings, and was then shunned. None of my martial arts brothers or sisters ever reached out to me, indeed I believe they were encouraged NOT to!
Finally, almost a year later, my best friend and training partner finally reached out to see how I was. However, as far as the martial arts was concerned, I was always at arm's length. He informed me that our teacher told everyone, "we are not ever going to talk about him."
Years later, I did somewhat bury the hatchet in another phone call (in 2008), and a few years after that (2011) we even visited him and his family (me, my wife, and two kids). But the promises of support and welcome back "into the fold" of the school were empty and never materialized. We never spoke again. I learned years later that he ended up divorcing his second wife/business partner/co-instructor and losing the school.
He passed away in the spring of 2022, in an assisted living home with almost no family or friends around him. Sad, really, considering the lengths he went to control those in his circle.
Now at the age of 53, I understand it was the cult of his personality. And that I was lucky to become free of it, even messy as it was. But it sure was devastating when it happened!
Peace and love to all!
MRD
Great story, Rokas 👍
Thanks :)
oh no. too bad that happened to you. i am just learning yoshinkan aikido here in japan. and compassion and empathy is taught to be given especially to the beginners. the sensei is kind, encouraging and full of compassion.
the more experience you have the less ego you have
hearing this story is like 99% the same with what I experienced last year with my long-life Sensei... it's almost like a 1:1 thing you're describing, down to the smallest details. Mine only differs in the fact that some things were even nastier, but overall the message is the same. Don't worry, it was something you needed to do for yourself, it was a step up in your maturity process, I think the same of my own experience. Standing up to the man who I considered my Sensei ever since 1996 was not a pleasant thing to do, but looking back now, oh boy was it SO necessary...
Great insight. It doesn't mean that every Aikido master is that way, but shows that you never know when you will be in one.
In fact I just realized I have been 1 year in one... curious
One of the best videos I have seen so far on TH-cam and resonates with me on many aspects. The cultish aspect of martial arts is very common in my opinion. I practiced kyokushin karate and bjj and they all have this ( bjj in particular). My experience with boxing and Thai boxing didn't, or at least nothing I noticed that resemble such traits. And regarding the cultish mentality, you can find it anywhere, in the workplace, among family and friends. You have all my respect for stepping out of something that you realised was hurting you despite the social, economical and self-identity consequences. I wish you peace.
I've watched your channel since the beginning. I've truly enjoyed watching you go from a long haired aikido fighter to a legitimate MMA fighter. Aikido is a beautiful art but you look much stronger now, physically and mentally. Very few people play with traditional and modern martial arts, its interesting to watch
Don't think more modern martial arts such as BJJ don't have this mentality either. They do.
Pulls out the popcorn* 🍿
😂❤
@Tac are.....are you the sensei?
@Tac Teach me Senpai! er, I mean sensei!!
This is eye opening.
I for one, not that it matters; am incredibly proud of you. It is very difficult to get out of those situations, but you did and will be better for it man.
Love your honesty.
This editing is hilarious. XD
I didn't know Rokas had a tattoo of fingers on his wrist! :D
😂😂 I hope that is a compliment
@@MartialArtsJourney I can dig it! :D It made me think a little about Internet Historian and his use of stock footage. In a fun way!
I realized that not everyone likes pure stock footage, so I thought I'll make it more fun too 😄 We'll see how people will respond
Everything is what you make it. Much love.
it's was really weird to realize that you living in Lithuania and I am from Belarus. In my mind we from different worlds. Love your channel and I was also studied aikido but for only 3 years
Wow, that cult chart looks exactly like a multinational structure :D
Thank you for sharing this. I have been in a very similar situation, hated the experience from the beginning, and got myself out of it as soon as I had the power to.
Though it wasn't a martial arts club, it was fake 'family' and the society controlled by CCP.
I have made friends and real family now, and am living in a much better society. I'm happy that you walked out, and hopefully more people will do that too.
:)
Love these stories & the resulting insights you share about em. Really appreciate the funny animations you do for these too!
What is the music track you use in the background of the first part? It sounds really familiar to me but I don't quite know where I've heard it
I really like the way you present your videos its so fun and interesting
and how you edit your vids are great too
Thank you! Means a lot to me. I've been putting a lot of extra effort lately. It's great to hear it has positive effect :)
So similar to my aikido experience.
I was involved in something similar with a TKD school here in NJ. It was a very toxic environment. In the three months there, I had lost 15 pounds of muscle and was sick most of the time. They had a serious control problem, they would not let have a day off to go see a doctor for what was ailing me, they had me and everyone else there 14-15 hours a day and with no breaks, they called me selfish and irresponsible whenever I asked for a day off to take care of something personal. And when I wanted to go see a doctor for what was ailing me, they told me to go and then come in to teach at 3pm (like if they knew more than an actual medical doctor). The worst was that they kept everyone there until 11pm-12midnight with their talks of how we did everything wrong and would verbally tear us apart regardless of the fact that some of us had a long drive home. The straw that broke the camel’s back for me was when my girlfriend was in the hospital and was about to give birth to my daughter and needed to go to be there for her, the head master did not want to let me go to be with my family and made a very negative comment along the lines of “I was too obsessed with my baby”. I was done. Left I did. They blew up my phone for days. I ended blocking all there phone numbers and threatening them with the police and an attorney if the harassment didn’t stop.
I've shared your journey with many "traditional" martial artist. It's honestly quicker and more efficient than arguing with them.
My sensei was unquestionably infallible. He was the perfect instructor. I was with the school for 9 years. I noticed that after become a 2nd degree black belt, most of the students became instructors or left. I didn't think much of it as a white belt.
Once I became black belt, the real questions came: don't you want to give back to sensei for all he's taught you? Don't you want to teach? Don't you want to carry on the art for another generation? Why spend your spare time in front of the TV or wasting time at home when you could be here?
Students that didn't want to teach were seen as selfish. They want to take sensei's knowledge and keep it for themselves. This is selfish. Therefore, black belts that don't become instructors are selfish.
I tried to take the instructor training. Very intense and being close to sensei both in and out of the dojo. He got my phone number and would text and call. He's get mad if I was busy or "ignoring" him. He got my work schedule so he knew when not to call me. Eventually I got sick enough to go to a hoapital for fluids. I told sensei before I told my own parents. I was out for a week, and it was the sweetest freedom to not have to explain myself - where I was, who I was with, why I wasn't in class that night - and to not have to answer sensei's texts and phone calls. Being hospitalized and taken out of the dojo was the breath of fresh air that I needed to realize that I should be allowed to have my own life outside of my school.
Thanks for this Video. I made almost the same expierences with a Ving Chun organisation in germany.
I thought its an specific wing chun thing and does not exsist in other martial arts.
And its too bad that people like you and me getting in to this while their just wanted to live their dreams.
Keep going👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Great work
"I made the decision not to study in a university"
Me: I can respect that; not everyone wants or has to go to college, just so long as they do something worthwhi-
"Instead, I became a full-time live-in aikido student"
Me: *Mortal Kombat 2 agony scream*
😂 Yeah... I freaked out my parents bad... But in the end - things worked out :) I put a lot of work into it and looked for creative solutions and here I am
@@MartialArtsJourney as a fellow patron of the martial arts (currently studying Jow Ga), good for you, man! Glad you managed to escape and make your way regardless!
@@MartialArtsJourney as a nerd and a PhD student I would highly recommend you to enter some kind of sports program in Lithuania and get the degree for free while your young brain is still sharp. This way you will have a backup plan if something happens to your health or if you won't be able to do sports because of your age. Or study what's interesting for you. It's always good to put the fruits into different baskets and it's never too late to study but it gets harder with age. The brain is like a muscle which becomes weak when not used or when it ages.
@@GSungaila Why go to school when he can complain about TMA on the Internet and make more money than you will ever see in your lifetime.
@@MiniatureMasterClass
Hes not making that much, calm down.
I was looking on how my school always said how MMA is good but you can break your hands, how other Jiu-jitsu schools did sport Jiu-jitsu and that made them do cheat moves that would get you knocked out in a real world fight....etc. It started my little journey on why some people let themselves get brainwashed. It started with how Aikido and Kun fu weren't that good and videos of the Gracie family destroying 25+ year Kung fu masters and these masters of other arts could not even process that what they learned for so long had major holes in thier effectiveness. Then it spilled over to me studying religious cults, MLMs, scams, financial Gurus and political blindness. But it started with me looking at Martial Art practicioners act....which is really saying it was looking at how PEOPLE act.
Rokas makes all us better people by sharing his experience. I know what my senseis were trying to do but I was too much of a jerk to put up with their bs. They miss me lol.
What a story!
This video was 🔥
Super video ..good luck..i like it
nice video. i experienced something similar. on top of that, all the students were willingly used as mobile ATMs by our "great leader". I'm so glad I'm not a part of it anymore. 🙌🏻
This reminds me of my current workplace (and boss). I guess the difference is that I'm not there to pursue my dreams but to collect my paycheck. Don't know if that makes it better or worse though.
I'm so lucky that my Aikido dojo is much more understanding, accepting, and kind.
realy to bad you ended up in a cult if you could have trained in a martial arts style that is not a cult you could have been a amazing martial artist considering your enormous amount of dedication
most TMA are all cult-like to some degree. I come from karate, and while my master and community was more "benevolent" than what rokas described, there is the whole rigid hierarchy thing, and the "shut up, just do what is asked". Although my teacher was actually very open to questions tbh. One thing is true about every dojo I have trained in: every art thinks theirs is the best and the others are "wasting time". In any case I have come to the conclusion that martial arts are totally useless, because as someone else just mentioned, once danger hits for real you are not going to be prepared, regardless of your training. The only reason to do anything (even aikido) is if you enjoy it. I just ended up finding that martial arts are all chores with no "ultimate payoff". That is why so many of them come up with bullshit mystical poetic justifications for why it is important. Even fitness-wise, you are probably better just lifting weights and you will be more ripped and healthier.
@Martial arts enthusiast yeah I agree its better to know "some" fighting than nothing. But usually what happens is that the assailant will have friends or a weapon or both. I am not sure training for 20 years like crazy just to have 1% more chance of survival is a very time-efficient way of dealing with the problem.
If you live in a good part of the world, you will probably never get mugged or attacked in your lifetime. If you live in a bad part of the world and you get attacked, there is probably not much your martial arts can do to save you anyway, so why waste time learning it. I have friends who lived in brazil, when those guys mug you they use guns, what can your highly trained reflexes do for that lol
@@kingartifex i did not really have that experience my sensei was vert strict and many martial arts instructors are becouse it is a good thing becouse it is not just for fun and in my experience my instuctors always have been open to asking questions and some even encourage crosstraining afther you becoume proficient in your first art becouse there is always more to learn so i do not think you are correct that only lifting wheigts is enoug even thoug fitness training is important you also need to lear how to defend yourself
@@definitlynotbenlente7671 my experience was similar to yours I think. Anyway I am not saying lifting weights is enough to fight, I am saying it is enough to keep fit, and that is all you really need
@@kingartifex but is started martial arts for more than to just say fit
Crazy!
There is a lot of information avaible online from how Aikido schools operate, through history of Aikido, to the how Aikido students think and respond to other martial arts.
Today its easier to detect MCdojos and suspicious groups, then it use to be.
Thanks 👍👍🙏🙏🥊🥊🥋🥋
Rokas: (Drinking the wine with caution.) Is this a pinot noir?
Sensei: kool-aid.
🤣🤣
No instructor should abuse their students
After leaving my dojo I contacted other students who had left before me and they reported getting similar aggressive one-on-one "life lessons" sensei was teaching outside the dojo. They all told me that sensei was much more aggressive and pushy in private with them. I assured my former colleagues that they did nothing wrong, and that sensei did this to myself and others like them. At least I could let my former colleagues know that they weren't alone in what they went through.
Good story.
I know a few people who should have movies made after them. You should have one too man
Your videos tend to be hard on the mind. But it's refreshing and challenging in a positive way. And they tend to have good connection with topics outside if martial arts. Life lessons and all. I tend to say, "Life should be like drinking coffee. It's the bitterness that wakes you up."
Anyway, a question or two: "Where do you see yourself in 50 years? Opening a martial arts school that has an open minded orientation, or a professional fighter's coach?" Just curious.
Hi, Rokas.
Similar situation I went through when I left the Navy after 4 years and then some in my overall service.
I was an electrician doing my own thing and trying to get the qualifications I needed, trying to have a good time, overall.
But, then, some rather obnoxious senior enlisted people started making predictions about me “getting to where they’re at and becoming like them someday.”
This upset me to no end, and I wanted to especially become an officer and a chance to earn my wings as a pilot.
So, I left the Navy. Best decision I’ve ever made (actually, one of the best along some others).
Years later, I got an AA and a Bachelor’s and am now on a 2nd AA. I’ve also taken up different martial arts on the sidelines trying to see where I fit (with Shorinji Kempo being the longest I’ve ever taken so far).
Granted, I haven’t earned my officer’s commission and am not a pilot as of yet. But, inch by inch, I know I’ll get there.
Thanks for sharing your experiences and this bit of enlightenment. Cheers!
What year did you look into going to Japan?
What it a cultural visa?
What type of recommendation?
I'm just really curious, I lived and trained sogo kakutogi (MMA) in Japan for over a decade, I never heard of this recommendation thing.
I even tried aikido at the big school in Nerima ku, Tokyo, but only for a few days.
Leaves one cult for another cult that makes him feel better about getting beat down.
Hey all. Are there any sources on the material shown at 5:33? Id highly apprechiate if I could get a link or something. Thanks a lot! :)
The main one is Stephen Hassan's BITE MODEL. Just search for it on Google and you'll find plenty of examples and articles :)
Not gonna lie though, the term "martial arts cult" sounds too awesome >.>
Honestly it sounds like where i work
I had a similar experience.
What school of aikido did you associate with or follow? Aikido Schools of Ueshiba, International Aikido Federation, Aikido Association, or some other school?
Lol the Pai Mei drop
I had similar experiencie, as a beginner practitioner. I would love to talk to you about it... is there a mean of reaching you? It's an international organization but i've never seen any questioning of their methods that, it appears to me, fit into your description of a cult. Greeting, love your content.
... same here mate, same here !!
I started with martial arts at six years old. There was nothing wrong with it all my life. But two years ago I started to train really hard two years ago. I realized that maybe what I was learning all my life might not be that great. I want to become a profesional. But tbis really messed up with my head. I am now probably in existensional crisis and on tthe brink of s*icide. I am now sitting alone wandering if I should e*d myself. I still have a year before ending high school. I DON'T WANT TO SPEND MY LIFE DOING NOTHING. I definitely didn't learned nothing but in the last couple of years we only had one session per week and hardly ever sparred. (We did, but not as much as we should). I just feel betrayed... If I die, please don't remember me as I think of myself...