Identifying and Escaping a Martial Arts Cult w/
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ค. 2024
- Part 1: • How Fraudulent Martial...
Part 2: • @McDojoLife Tries to C...
Rob from @McDojoLife teaches me about how to choose a martial art, how to not get sucked into a cult, and how to help get those you care about out of a cult.
Icy Mike is there too...
0:00 Cult or good martial art?
3:39 Don't get conned
6:08 Getting someone out of a cult
Twitter: / armchairviolenc
I love how Icey Mike keeps popping in with different weapons and twerling them around.
I mean what else do you do??
This is how the fancy ancient weapon forms were invented, they were laying around, the masters were bored, hidden dragon crouching tiger.
Truly an Icey Micey moment
I've always known Rob had a keen eye for disproving bs, but I had no idea how in depth his knowledge on the psychology of cults, scanners, etc was - dude continues to impress me
As a school owner, I also think it is good business and perfectly okay to recommend someone try a different school if you cant help them achieve their goals but you know another school can. Its dishonest to say you can help anyone if you actually cant.
agreed!
& people respect you more, because they understand you're not purely in it for the money.
I was part of a martial arts cult. And honestly it was subtle AF. But it wasn't the no touch knockout BS, but I started since I was very young, and before I knew it, I was 20 years in and I was indoctrinated. The biggest red flag was when the top sensei began to try controlling me outside the dojo.
I recognize this. "You need to distance yourself from your family in order to reach your full potential" was the breaking point for me. Every other little thing that mental gymnastics kept at bay came crashing down after that.
I think one of the most cult-like behaviors would be discouraging someone to train elsewhere if that benefits their own goals. If it's viewed as a betrayal to explore and find your own path, then that's a massive red flag.
Having been through this before I can tell you that you have more fun as a member, but you make more money as a leader.
Fancy seeing you here, Creed
I love that he explained that its not fake if it helps people reach the goal, because not everyone wants to be a fighter. But alot of schools *claim* to make you deadly, and I can see the problem there for sure 😅.
Exactly! It’s totally fine not to practice martial arts purely for fun or weight loss. The simple fact is the overwhelming majority of people are not built nor eager to be Pro Fighters
I would like to thank the TH-cam algorithm for taking me to your channel, because it's been non-stop great content. I'm going through all your old episodes, and loving it. You got a new subscriber!
I feel like introducing them to the McDojo channel to laugh together AT McDojos without mentioning their gym being one might be a good start. It introduces the concept that there ARE bullshido gyms out there in a way that doesn't put them on the spot. From there you can start a conversation of their gym being one of them.
yea opens their eyes to make them think about what is a martial arts cult and then they can put their martial art to see if it fits the criteria (I have not seen a mcdojolife video just if I am saying something against it)
My step-dad, now deceased, used this strategy and tactics to either intentionally or unintentionally show me that what I was taking (Bujinkan) was bullshido. Which I got into after having been the victim of violent crime, and wanting to now be able to defend myself after the fact. All while dealing with the PTSD and fallout of the attack, basically during a highly vulnerable time in my life.
My step father would ask me about my lessons, and had me attempt techniques I was taught and showed me they didn't work on a stronger or resisting opponent, or how they could work but would require a lot of force or would require a hard set up and a lot of leverage first. The concepts and techniques that I was taught which did/does work he expanded upon. So eventually it ended up with solo sessions with him teaching me effective self-defense, him having been in the army & navy, fought a lot, and been in martial arts as well.
Everything I was taught at the Bunjinkan place that WASN'T actual Bunjinkan was effective, but almost everything that was purely Bujinkan was garbage. But now I know better.
And knowing is half the battle! The other half is extreme violence.
When you join a gym that’s your gang.
When I told my old Sensi when I moved . He said if you don’t join a affiliate gym uou can’t train here anymore. I never went back
I also think the "cult" martial art schools keep people is because the followers tend to get a social group accepting them.
This discussion has so many parallels to religious cults or even religious denominations from everything I've heard.
I was in a martial arts cult about 20 years ago, they were like "we can make you do mystical stuff!". It was like something in a movie, and the scary thing is, it wasn't a ripoff scam, the guy actually believed it. It was like Waco, Texas.
I didn't even quit, I just stopped showing up. I still think about it to this day.
So why did u join it? Just for fun?
I encourage you to let it go man.
He was probably an MKULTRA test subject at some point in his life🤷♂️ all that LSD ruined some of those people, Charles Mansion was one
This is really funny to me because the entire approach Rob described is 100% what I learned from Aikido
I was thinking the same thing!
On the "getting what you look for" is the reason i left boxing... Boxing is great, but not whatbi was looking for
I like the take you guys had about what benefits you. It leaves room for all different types of instructors to exist.
Mike twirling the bat at 3:50 like he’s about to clobber you all 😂
I'm a capoeira instructor and I've suddenly realized I have no idea why people do capoeira. I should probably ask.
THANK YOU for this! 6:24 to 6:45
It’s extremely frustrating how many “real” Martial Art Practitioners utterly *fail* to understand this _basic concept._ When correcting “inferior” practitioners some of y’all carry yourselves with the exaggerated arrogance of every “Undefeated” Street Fighter that waltzes into any Gym or Dojo.
Resulting in the odds of anyone with even an _average level_ of self-respect listening to you to drop. Especially when you treat them like idiotic kids. Instead of like a *FRIEND* who made a very common and easily rectifiable mistake! It’s no wonder why folks don’t leave these cults when ya got people who’s idea of fun is going around bullying Mcdojo students!
Almost at 5k, brotha. Keep up the work! (Subbed after the first vid I watched, and you+Mike is another awesome pair to have for TH-cam MMA). You guys help a ton!
Also something to consider. A lot of people learn martial arts for the tradition and fun. Take a Kendo or Yaido practitioner for example. Its important for them to know what exactly is that they are learning, but also show them the other side so that they know what they are NOT learning.
My current muay thai coach actually almost forces you to have three free classes before you subscribe. Doesn't matter if you come with the intent to subscribe or if just want to have a look. He tells you "try first then do what ever you want". Plus he formed a few national champs , so directly I knew he was legit.
I like your logic, and agree with it. The objectives are the key, though..Some people just like to spend their time in the weirdest ways. Call it comedy, dancing, acting, mocking, chilling, hanging out. Hopefuly people could keep their cult within the legal ground. Legit martial arts have their downside too, like injuries. ( plus some of the creepy stuff that happens in Mc dojos happen as well in high elite sport)
I left the martial arts cult i've been in since I was a kid because it was just bad for my mental health and I think talking to someone about how his health or freedom or something like that is better then going the martial arts way because they feel it more and it hurts them more so for me it made me listen more to my parents who made me quit
Also another cult like behavior and startegy that I noticed with training children is trying to make a mental image in their brain that the cult is as important as their home by saying stuff like: the dojo should feel like a second home and we are all family here which actually sounds not crippy at all when done right and it makes their hold on you very powerfull
I struggled to get myself out for years too. I spent all my teenage years and all my twenties in it. Now I'm in my thirties and trying to educate myself on how to make a better income and survive in an economy
I almost fell into one of these when I was younger. The one day I cam to train and the instructor says "you can teach a ten year old to break someone neck...know what I think I will". Preceded with that lesson. Last one. there was a lot of signs I recognize now but then- it can sneak up on you.
Some Dojo owners( but not all) are all-knowing, all-seeing, and all egos. Teaching you the way of the braggadocio. When you start gaining weight instead of losing it and spending most of your time listing to "instructions" instead of training, run don't walk to the door.
Okay. A lot of good stuff in this series. A thing that didn't get said explicitly is, any given gym or practice can move from being one of those three--a cult, a religion or a martial art--to another. And there's no guarantees about when and by whom that change gets noticed.
Speaking as someone who has been trying to figure how to grow my training from the martial mysticism I picked up from my aikido and tai chi teacher (which worked great for me because I was already one of those people who might be a next Alan Watts if I ever did grow up, anyway) into a practice that meets the rest of my needs.
It is hard, and sometimes alienating, to examine these things sincerely and without an inhibiting fear of what one might find. But it also seems necessary for practices that include a real effort at self-defense.
Lol that intro sounded like a riff between scenes in a sitcom
OMG, you opened my eyes... I am trapped in a Wing Tsun community, which is a total money pit, and in 9 years I did not learn how to actually fight.
How to have impossible conversations is a good book. I'm a likable person and I want you to get where you want to go :)
There are a lot of home based trainers that will be looking for ideas on where to start for grappling, punching, kicking.
Damn, you're featuring the 2 TH-cam giants on the regular at this point
I got a bunch of videos filmed in the same day lol. This was the last of them, so I'm about to go back to my regular videos
You should talk about contracts! F that! Join a month to month place to earn your business.
Plus the guy u pay will offer more service.
I got my friend to leave a mcdojo by inviting him to come to a class with me at my dojo
It pisses me off that if you watch videos from serious guys seriously trying to help, you have to skip ads for Bullshido to get to the video. Seven or eight videos, like 6 of them have had 'Take on bigger stronger opponents with these fight ending tricks' or 'Blah blah Chi focus blah' ads. To hell with youtube saying content isn't suitable for all advertisers, not all advertisers are suitable for the content. Some 'ex CIA' guy trying to teach fight 'secrets' is exactly why people are here. Why the hell would they want advertisements for EXACTLY what they are trying to avoid?
Hi!
I did all the mistake Rob says…
I lost a friend trying to pull him out of an aikido cult. :/
He said a huge load of nonsense and thought he was deadly.
Hey man, could you cover the legitimacy of Sanda and Shuai Jiao?
Short answer: Both are pretty legit. Chinese martial arts get a bad reputation because of all the terrible kung fu forms, but they have some good arts too
I've been telling this to Matt Dillanhunty for a long while now. He is an atheist trying to get religious folks to lose their religion. But he comes from a place of bravado. It is never going to work.
Unintentionally…. Creating and Managing a Martial Arts Cult. Thanks McDojoLife lol
First step is admitting it to oneself
I have to be honest, I recently signed up for karate but I just want to get in shape, learn some cool stuff, get out of my own head and do something fun. I know the place I'm going is not training the next big shot martial artist champion, it is technically a McDojo but at least it's for free because it's part of a government program for marginalized communities. I'll still keep my eyes and ears open, I don't want to fall into a cult.
I am currently in a cult. Weirdly enough though, it's different from what Mcdojolife describes: at no point did anyone pressure us or ask for money, hell I train pretty much for free. The cult is based in belief in a very strict hierarchy that the okinawan master holds magical amounts of knowledge and his word (and in extention that of his immediate disciples) should be viewed as absolute truth. The negligence contained in their claims however is sometimes jarring. I stick with it because I enjoy some of the eastern mysticism, the structure, techniques and whathaveyou, but my dude, it is tiring to sometimes hear a adult man that's trained for his entire life make claims that just... are easily debunked by just opening up google. Thought it'd be fun to share, that not all cults want you in there, some just want to circle-jerk and appeal to a mystical authority, and if you want to progress, absolute loyalty and secrecy are imperative.
I’ve met similar type of people. Just don’t let them suck you into their madness. Stay alert and safe 👍🏻
So how does it feel being undercover 🤣
@@rubyheavyartilleryrose5058 honestly? Not good, not bad. I enjoy it for what it is and try to to get too frustrated when we get into magic territory. Just smile and nod. Looking forward to when I open my own place so I can teach sensible fun stuff. Need to learn and study more first tho. I'm honestly convinced there's some truth to a lot of the eastern mumbo jumbo, I intend to find it, discard the bullshit and keep the guiding principles.
Most martial arts and combat sports have a cultish structure, much more than other sporting activities.
On minute 7:54.... why does he point his thumb towards Mike when he says "Machismo"?
Lol I was like: "I wonder if he'll keep his song after this lesson" 🤔
And then silence...
Should we expect a new, caring song now? 😂🤣
Great video. Good info as always
Lol I only didn't include it because I did an outro on camera. I would have had no shame about including it otherwise 😆
Plus, that outro technically makes fun of people throwing out hurtful and unfair criticism of one's fighting abilities!
@@ArmchairViolence lol sounds good 👍. I wake up every morning and check Spotify to see if you finally dropped your single.
_”A lot of martial artist’s answer for this is beat em up.”_
I’m sorry, freaking WHAT?!? How the heck do people not immediately recognize that by doing that THEY become the villains of the story??? Do people just bust into Mcdojo’s and start shit?
I think the thought is, "If I beat them, then they'll understand that what they're learning is inferior and learn something else."
I have watched a few of your videos where you say this or that doesn't work. That is fine but I have a philosophy, in a room with 10 doors and only one leads to the way out it is better to know which door leads to the way out than to know 5 doors not to go through. In other words, it is more efficient to know what you want than what you don't want. Do you have a general list of attributes that increases the likelihood an instructor or training facility is legit? I know you can't say if they have this, this, and this then they absolutely are legit but if they have like 4/5 the likelihood is high and a person could give them a try. If they have 1/5 skip 'em.
becouse of a medical condition i can not spar full contackt can i still teach martial arts ?
Yeah, especially if you're able to spar light contact. You don't have to hit hard to get decent training, and 90% of people's sparring should be really light anyway
"It's not the Martial arts Woo-hoo, it's the cult leader that get people to believe it"
Are we actually saying people only believe Jake Mace because of the Washboard abs?🤔
Hi, sorry I'm late, but I saw the flier to join the Church of Armchair Violence?
I don't know if the school I ran from from after two months was a McDojo, however there big claim to fame was being an Asian accredited school, when I try to Google search this I can't find any other school with claims to such a thing....has anyone heard of such a thing or is this just another long list of bullshido? I'm curious and want to make sure I made a good decision to get out.
I would think it depends on what organization in Asia accredits it. They can't just say "Asian accredited" because the continent of Asia does not give accreditations lol
Off the wall question here, but, in your experience, are most MMA gyms owned and run by rightwing/conservative/republican leaning people?? Cause I’m starting to get that feeling. I’ve trained in MMA for almost 3 years now in 2 different gyms. First one I left because they (the owner and some members) started talking political conspiracy theory stuff. And the new gym I’m at has done a great job of keeping politics and religion out of training, BUT they do let it slip out every now and then.
Also a old supervisor I worked w/ trained at a popular BJJ gym in my area and he told me his coach was a hardcore Trump supporter.
I wanna try MMA because it’s effective, but I really want to leave that crap out of training. Sometimes I feel like my personality doesn’t mess w/ people in this lifestyle.
I have absolutely no evidence, but I feel like they are more likely to be right wing than left wing (how many far left people want to punch people for a living?), but I don't know how many of them would actually be political. I certainly haven't noticed the coaches I've encountered being political, but I have heard other stories.
It definitely happens, but for it to happen multiple times in a row for you means I think you just got unlucky.
Or you live in a really conservative area.
From my experience, the overwhelming majority of martial arts instructos and competitors are right-wing. Here in my country , Brazil, Bolsonaro had almost 100% support from the martial arts community.
I knew a guy so deep into Aikido that he married a Japanese woman he met at the Dojo, started learning Japanese (she wasn't learning English, though ...), had "sacred" numbers in his e-mail address, went kinda ersatz Japanese "lite." Had plans to move to Japan to be with his wifes family. I doubt Aikido club was a cult. I think he made Aikido and Japan a little cult just for himself ... and his poor wife.
I guess the moral of this story is some people just want to be in "something" and sometimes that is a cult?
I tried to look him up a couple of years ago and his mystical e-mail was cancelled and a casual search yielded nothing. Cheers!
I thought you were talking about Steven Seagal for a minute there lol. What you're describing sounds more like an obsession because he's not trying to garner followers, at least going by the information you gave. I had never practiced any kind of martial art until very recently, but I know a thing or two about cults, my mom used to belong to one and she died believing in what they told her.
I didn’t join anything
"Don't join a cult."
-> thumbnail = end of video
*T h i s w a s i n f o r m a t i v e.*
Tale your hands out of your poket please or are you hiding something?
Please include the hard 2 hurt guy in the conversation, because if you dont, he will have his own conversation in the background, and it is anoying as hell on the video..
Easy test: glance around the gym real quick. Does everyone have baby ears or are there any tough manly ears in the group? If it’s the former, get on out.
Cults are bad
What if My Goal is Just to Learn Roundhouse Kicks?