Audi e-tron 50/55 & Hyundai Ioniq 28 kWh degradation tests with Aviloo
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ย. 2022
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I’m a simple man. I see an Ioniq 28, I give Thumbs up. 👍
I’m a simple man. I see an Ioniq 28 comment, I give Thumbs up. 👍
No more thumbs up now they are perfectly 28
@@dylanza oops, autsch! I was going in that trap 😅
e-tron 50 never got more capacity by software. It was only for e-tron 55 from 2018/2019. 83 to 86 kWh like the 2020+ Models. I did 60k km with my 2019 e-tron 50. I'm always charging to 100% (and drove it after that). I measured capacity when it was new and now (driving 100% to 1%) Nearly 4% degradation so far. DC charging only on long trips to italy, france and so on.
If Blauzahn says “long trips” he’s crossing Europe 🥰
Waiting for new Blauzahn roadtrip videos… 👍
@@NicoSteinacker 😂
WHY do you always charge the battery to 100 %? That is the worst for the battery.It is even worse than fast charging a lot. Charge to 80 % and to 100 % oly when it is realy needed (before going on a long trips). If you would charge to 80 %, then you would have only around 2 % degradation instead of 4 %.
WHY do you always charge the battery to 100 %? That is not good for the battery. Charge to 80 % and to 100 % only when it is realy needed (before going on a long trips). If you would charge to 80 %, then you would have only around 2 % degradation instead of 4 %. :)
@@drister007 I need 100% SoC in the province here. Driving here is nearly like long trips. 100% SoC on display is 90% SoC BMS.
Outsourcing 4tw :)) As far as the Ioniq is concerned, no mystery there. Avilo calculated 24,68/26->0,949->5%, you calculated 24,48/26->0,941->6%. Regarding the differences between the results: AVILO takes the numbers directly via OBD, in this case you took the numbers shown in the cockpit. Also AVILO takes the usable energy from the manufacturer information for the most part. Overall I'd say this kinda validates your methods and results, so keep doing you! 🖖
I love having Bjorn playing in the background when I am at work.
It's refreshing to hear about different EVs besides a Tesla.
Definitely need Avilo in the US.
I like playing in the background.
It seems that you have figured out the right way to measure degradation. It's s logical, simple, though it takes some time. I thank you for your good work!
Would be really cool if you could do an Aviloo test and a 0% test with any of the Stellantis cars (Corsa e, e208, ...).
Yes, we like the juicy stuff. Been waiting for this.
very interesting stuff - thanks for sharing this !!
very useful, keep the good work
This is an interesting table, I'd like to see both the degredation a cycle (or 100 cycles or so), the degredation a mile (or 100K miles or so), and the degradation a year.
I'd like to see facelift eGolf and a 33kWh i3 tests, the more on the clock the better. Thumbs up comment if agree.
You should do a test on EQC, it has a less aggressive charging curve!
Have seen some of your videos, so new subscriber, thinking you know it all😊 can you please tell me what your thoughts are on the Hyundai Ionic 2019 regarding performance on icy roads? Have seen your testvideo but I cant remember you mentioning roadgrip due to the weight of the car? Thanks!
It's not only the fastcharging. i guess "hammering" (read fast accellerate) a powerful car a lot will also add extra battery wear. Maybe not as much as fast charging but it wouldn't surprise me if it added an extra percent degradation.
awesome idea bjorn
ID4 degredation test would be nice to see also
Interesting test. Probably the fast charging is hitting the e-tron harder than average? Surely more home/slower overnight charging is healthier!
I know it’s going to be different for all cars, but maybe - going forward - tests of repeat models could include an average degradation stat for that model? Personally, if I bought new and kept a car 4-5 years, I’d want it to retain at least 80% battery health by yr5… even with 250-300,000 miles on (that’s kind of my driving profile)!
I trust uncle Björn. Fat Etron degregation is OK for me and not too high. Two years of fast charging pays a toll somehow still...
2 years of free fast charging?
I have a etron 50 sportback(begin 2020) with 21000km. I always charge slow between 5 and 11kw. I drove the car til 2% and at full charge it indicated 65.40kwh
I think Avilo measures against the spec, most cars are slightly above spec initially.
Really enjoy your videos. I bought a used 2020 e tron 50 a week ago and not impressed with the battery. It’s 4 degrees C outside so cold but not freezing. Charged to 90% and only setting 110 mile range. Surely this can’t be right?
Aviloo claims 6% ± 3% for the Audi. (Stated on back side) so matches your result👍
Very interesting.
I have my etron 50 for about 6 months now. Haven't noticed any degradation but I also do no fast charging and only drive short distances so it's done about 3,000 km.
Only 3000km in 6 months. So the car is still new? If the battery would already degrade with that amount of KM's I would demand a refund haha.
Is Aviloo not available in the UK? Site doesn’t seem to accept the country as an option…
@Bjørn kan you do a folow up on Ditec Ceramic Ultra?
Sad to see part of the LED on E-tron 50 has died already as seen ~ 4:20 Those are not cheap to replace.
It's maybe the camera. I made a photo of my e-tron today and looks the same. But the LED-Bar is working fine.
This is really awesome, very informative. Can you do this test for a 3 year Nissan Leaf? I'm very curious to see how does a non active cooling battery with some age is performing.
Take a look at the spreadsheet at the end of the video, there are 3 Leaf tests.
@@sie4431 yes, but they are not 2019 Leafs, thats the ones i am interest on. 2013 leaf i already have one and know how it behaves.
That battery certificate will need to be a standardized thing! Probably already is in advanced Europe.
Hope you get your hands on some high-mileage HKMC 64kWh cars - with original cells of course 👍
What about the MG marwell? You measured 4KWh more than stated net battery capacity? Is the BC correct in all cars. I have checked your excel sheet most cars are accurate but some seams a bit of. Some teslas are low on capacity? M3 with 49kWh and 60kWh claimed? Odd?
I think degradation should be measured by real world reduction in range. Not on kWh where manufacturers differ in wear and tear that gives you fewer km per kWh and in how they handle "hidden" buffers.
Then you might have 0% degradation thanks to the buffer. The buyer of the used car, however, buys a car that then has, for example, only 95% SoH. Doesn't match either.
I think as you have said before where Aviloo is really useful if you want to sell the car or try and make a battery warranty claim to have something official looking. Not much point in paying the high price if you just want to know the degradation of your own battery since you can test yourself for free.
Hi Bjørn. You should test the new LED headlights on the Hyundai Ioniq 38Kwh. Very weird light pattern and not good at all... Nein Nein Nein :D
Hi mate , how can I check correctly, I'm a bit confused , can you check also by the Long Term Memory or needs to be the Short Term Memory that you are checking ? Mine is an 2020 etron 55 with 69k miles on the clock. I see that you are using different formulas on the E tron 50 (you are dividing 0.93 on the 50 e tron ) and different on Etron 55. Can you please tell me how do I check it and what is the corect formula ? I also have an OBDeleven but again I don't know how to do it there either. Thank you in advance
Do you also get a detailed report in Aviloo like at modules or cells?
It would be cool if Aviloo could also show the others tests done for that car model. So you could get a hunch what to except for that kind of car and age and mileage.
Yes we have that database of more than 2500 tests from EV's and PHEV's :D
@@lukasgos9214 can you reveal the average degradation for a VW e-up 32 kWh after about 60 000 km 🙂?
My Etron 55 is from 2019 and I have 2 new battery cells because they where faulty defect 70k km and a lot of normal charging at 10kW
I own e-tron 55 and I've read the cell voltages after DC and AC charging sessions, and DC charging, although it seems to go to 100 %, does not go as high as the slower AC charging. So, in order to make degradation test properly, one should do it after an AC charging session.
Why did I get 63.9 kWh when I DC fast charged to 100 % with e-tron 50 Sportback?
th-cam.com/video/r14Lvm_bVrw/w-d-xo.html
I don't know why, but I just commented what I've seen via OBD and what might explain the anomalies you see with e-tron battery.
I've also seen that after a DC charging session, if I let the car sit awhile (not that long that the battery would yet cool down) the SoC % drops a few %-unit. Eg if I charge to 70 %, stop and leave the car, when I'm back it might be 68 %.
E-tron's BMS is also off quite often; after a long drive, when I get home at eg. 17 % but don't plug the car in asap but just leave the car, after 1-2 hrs the SoC might have gone up to 20 %.
@@bjornnyland Usually due to the HV battery cooling and 12V Powersupply if the car is on.
@@villehonkamaki1972 Thats 100% correct. The SOC estimation of a car is not 100% perfect. During a drive it's not unusual to get a SOC correction of several %. But this regards to all EV's from all brands. It's not an issue by Audi.
I drive a Tesla Model S 100D from 2018 with 180.000 km. The Car has 40% SuC Charching. I measure ~ 11% degradation.
Very interesting. Would this etron50 have LG or Samsung battery?
I dont find this degradation very disturbing. +80k km of hard DC charging
Samsung.
Id.3 58 kwh, 2 years old, 42000km, mostly slow charge 7% degradation
Would be good if you could test some e bikes in thailand
But you probably haven't got time
How accurate would soh figure be on car scanner for instance ?
SoH reported from the cars are usually somewhat inaccurate.
If the car was registered in May 2022, how can you say it’s two years old?
Please do degradation test with high mileage Ioniq. Like 150 000km or so.
I have 130k km on mine 28kWh, according to my measurements it’s roughly 24.5 kWh capacity left.
I have already tested an Ioniq with 92k on odometer. Check the results or in my channel.
@@adambutruk8976 That is less than 6 % degradation. Ioniq 28 kWh have only 26 kWh of neto battery capacity when new as Bjorn measured.
@@bjornnyland Well If you can't find any Ioniq with bigger mileage, I can provide mine with 155 000km. Just one problem: Car is in Lithuania :D :D
Is that a broken tail light or is the light indicating the current state of charge?
Broken sadly
There are two types of degradation:
- Degradation from the original gross capacity (varies with each and every battery)
- Degradation from the net capacity specified by the manufacturer
You can have a car with 55kWh battery (gross), of which only 50kWh can be used (net).
The battery can degrade and the user will not notice anything until the net capacity is affected by the degradation.
You should take into account net degradation and not gross degradation because the net capacity is what will determine your range.
Is there anything wrong with the red led bar on the back? It seems like part of it is not working already?
This led bar should show battery SOC during charging, maybe after next update :)
It's maybe the camera. I made a photo of my e-tron today and looks the same. But the LED-Bar is working fine.
Zoe ZE 50 shows me on 100% charged battery 49 kWh battery capasity and health on 92%
Damn noisy Fossil rattle in background
Amazing chart so far, but what is missing on it is the total km driven
It's already there.
Well, maybe im blind... Still dont see it
@@maxmustermann4400 Odo !
yooo what's uppp
Why does the Ioniq 28 have only 26 KWH available. I thought is was 28 KWH.
Would like to see that on Teslas 3/Y , when someone claims a % of deg, the Fanboys come and say they should balance correctly the pack and do the right calibration . A big challenge there 😅
ScanmyTesla, than go to 100% drive to 0% znd below than you can see how much used and compare it with the parameter when new.
Teslas have only around 1 % degradation per year on average study found. It can be a little bit more first year or two, but after that it is even less than that.
e-tron 50 owner here. Isn't the 50's usable capacity 64.7kWh? 71kWh in total. Potentially this was an early 2020 model with lower capacity which may explain the difference (I hope so anyway, cos degradation % would be significantly higher).
Net. capacity doesn't equal real world useable capacity. e-tron 50 capacity never changed. Only at e-tron 55 2018/2019 due to free BMS-update.
@@DerBlauzahn thanks. When building an etron 50 on the Audi website the battery is specc'd at 71kWh? I think there was a change around 2020, could be mistaken. But EV database says 64.7kWh usable.
@@chrischild3667 71 kWh gross, 64,7 kWh net. capacity. But net is not what you really get out of it while driving, due to losses.
@@DerBlauzahn OK grand thanks very much for that 👍
64,7 kWh is the real energy you can get out of a new e-tron 50. But this is only possible to drive below 0% SOC until the car stops. So almost each car has a buffer below 0%. 62kWh is the Energy from 100-0% at new condition.
Audi E-Trons, they have a superior recuperation rate. Could that be the reason for a superior degredation?! Fat E-Tron: a cool car with a hot battery
any chance of testing degration of Model 3 LFP?
Is this car's light bar broken at the back?
It's maybe the camera. I made a photo of my e-tron today and looks the same. But the LED-Bar is working fine.
Simple measure method using Ev full drivein than fully empty battery. And full charging 100% Counting kwh charge capacity.
Not correct because you then have unknown charging loss.
My understanding is the 28 kWh IONIQ has a 30.5 kWh gross battery and net capacity battery of 28 KWh. Where did you get a net capacity of 26 KWh?
After losses.
@@bjornnyland Thanks so your degradation calculation is incorrect. It should be 24.48 / 28 = 87% 13% degradation..
@@MrSeancarthy You are right, Sean. But I do not believe that the Ioniq classic has a degradation of 13% after just 50Tkm...
@@stephanmosbleck4535 so you believe it should be more or less. I think the ioniq had more than 50k done.
Bjørn (and others) tested the Ioniq when new and it was around 26 kWh available. Aviloo also uses 26 kWh as reference for a brand new Ioniq. So maybe there is 28 kWh available in the battery but you won’t be able to utilize it because of losses in the converter, cables etc
Interesting. An Asian outsourcing work to a Norwegian. Usually it’s the opposite direction
Get used to it.
Ioniq28 = 26,6kWh when new. Not 26kWh
Maybe? Maybe? What‘s the pure truth! 😅
@1:20 Are you living in 2024?
I would like you to make a video on how you test, explanations on all the methods you use. Then others could try and replicate with their own cars and compare data. 🤔
th-cam.com/video/kMh8Ie--X8E/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/mZ1g9nGvtdM/w-d-xo.html
@@bjornnyland thanks for finding them for me! I will try it on my 'classic' Ioniq with 42,000 miles (67500km) soon. I would expect it should be around 6%-7% or so........
@@FFVoyager if you want the real degradation, you need to compare with 26,6kWh and not 26kWh.
The range and fuel economy of an ICE car ALSO degrade over time. MENTION THIS TOO FOR A BALANCED VIEW. Why do EV haters fail to mention this 🧐
So the official net capacity of the Ioniq is 28 kWh and 26 kWh in reality. Can I asked Hyundai to fix the battery?
No, it is normal.
@@paco9713 Two different numbers for the same thing are normal?
28 kWh is probably nominal under ideal lab conditions at 20-25°C. And 26 kWh is what you can actually get with real loads (acceleration, uphills, etc). The remaining 2 kWh is most likely discharging losses in battery, inverter, cables, etc.
30,4kWh Gross capacity ; 26,6kWh net usable capacity, but you can regen at 100% to go to 28kWh.
227wh 🙈 etron still the king
*Wh/km
@@bjornnyland 🙏❤️
Audi = "Premium" manufacture => LED tail light strip 🤣
It's maybe the camera. I made a photo of my e-tron today and looks the same. But the LED-Bar is working fine.
@@DerBlauzahn no it’s a common issue of sporadically failures…meanwhile there is also a improved version introduced into the series.
@@visionmodernclassics3062 I know. Mine got a new one in 2020. But: camera does not always catch the PWM-frequency. So it looks defective, but isn't. I can show you my photos from today. Half, full and partial LED light. But always worked fully.
Why is it termed ‘fat e tron’ ? Haha is it bulbous or just thirsty ?
This car is a scam with its current price. The most innefficient EV in its price range. At least the battery degradation isn't that bad.
It's a really nice car though...
Don't buy one if you don't like it.