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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- I AM UNDERWHELMED... Empire Of Death - Doctor Who Finale Review!
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Doctor Who is a British science-fiction television programme broadcast by the BBC since 1963. The programme depicts the adventures of a Time Lord called the Doctor, an extraterrestrial being who appears to be human. The Doctor explores the universe in a time-travelling space ship called the TARDIS. The TARDIS exterior appears as a blue British police box, which was a common sight in Britain in 1963 when the series first aired. With various companions, the Doctor combats foes, works to save civilisations, and helps people in need.
Beginning with William Hartnell, fifteen actors have headlined the series as the Doctor. The transition from one actor to another is written into the plot of the show with the concept of regeneration into a new incarnation, a plot device in which a Time Lord "transforms" into a new body when the current one is too badly harmed to heal normally.
The fourteenth series of the British science fiction television programme Doctor Who is set to premiere on 11 May 2024, and is expected to air through to 22 June. It will be the fifth series led by Russell T Davies as head writer and executive producer and the first since his return to the show, having previously worked on it from 2005 to 2010. This series is set to be the fourteenth to air following the programme's revival in 2005 and will be the fortieth season overall. The fourteenth series was announced with Davies' return to the programme for its 60th anniversary in 2023 and beyond, with Bad Wolf becoming a co-producer for the series. The series is referred to in marketing and promotional material as "Season One" following the production changes and the acquisition of Doctor Who's international broadcasting rights by Disney+.
The series stars Ncuti Gatwa as the Fifteenth Doctor, a new incarnation of the Doctor, an alien Time Lord who travels through time and space in the TARDIS, which appears to be a British police box from the outside. The Fifteenth Doctor was introduced in "The Giggle" (2023) through a "bi-generation", in which he split from his predecessor, the Fourteenth Doctor (David Tennant), rather than replacing him. The series also introduces Millie Gibson as the Doctor's newest companion, Ruby Sunday.
The series, which was preceded by a Christmas episode on 25 December 2023, will consist of eight episodes, which have been directed by Julie Anne Robinson, Ben Chessell, Dylan Holmes Williams, and Jamie Donoughue. Alongside Davies, who wrote six of the episodes, the writers include Kate Herron, Briony Redman, and former showrunner and head writer Steven Moffat. Filming began in December 2022 and concluded in July 2023. It was the first series to be produced at Wolf Studios Wales following the move from Roath Lock Studios for the preceding anniversary specials.
Auditions for the role of the Fifteenth Doctor started in December 2021, assisted by casting director Andy Pryor. Davies was interested in casting "new talent" and someone "younger", with most of the actors who auditioned under the age of 30. There was also no limit on gender and background, with auditions held for men, women, and one non-binary actor. Pryor said that when casting the Doctor, "you always want someone unexpected... an actor who contrasts with what's gone before yet still brings those essential qualities that the Doctor has". Ncuti Gatwa was the final candidate to audition for the role. Davies said that the production team "thought [they] had someone and then in he came and stole it", describing it as "the most blazing audition". Executive producer Phil Collinson stated that Gatwa "did things with [the role] that I'd never seen an actor playing Doctor Who do".
On 9 January 2023, the BBC announced that Aneurin Barnard would appear as the mysterious Roger ap Gwilliam, and that Jemma Redgrave, having reprised her role in the previous series would continue to appear as Kate Stewart during the fourteenth series. On 20 January 2023, further casting announcements from the BBC revealed that Anita Dobson and Michelle Greenidge would appear as Ms Flood and Carla Sunday. On 3 April 2023, it was announced that Jinkx Monsoon would play a major antagonistic role in the series, called "Maestro". On 5 May 2023, it was announced that Jonathan Groff would play a key role in the series. On 24 May 2023, the BBC announced that Indira Varma would join the series to play The Duchess. On 7 June 2023, Bonnie Langford was announced to be reprising her role as Mel Bush for the series. On 15 June 2023, Lenny Rush was also announced, to play a "mysterious" character named Morris. Alexander Devrient will reprise his role as Colonel Christopher Ibrahim.
#doctorwho #ncutigatwa #15thdoctor
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The worst part about this finale is that there were no consequences after. Like in series 1 Rose destroys the daleks but the doctor has to regenerate or series 2 where the cybermen and daleks are defeated but rose gets trapped. With this finale, literally everything got reversed. Even in Avengers Endgame, Iron Man remains dead.
“Everyone lives” something the 9th doctor said idk😂
@@OfficialKequan He also said "Just this once" which hasn't exactly been the case
I'm teetering between underwhelmed & absolutely hating it. The virtual silence as 100s left the cinema at 1am was incredibly telling. There was audible anger at the Ruby ending in my screening & my friends couldn't say much positive about it afterwards, still in shock how bad a taste in the mouth the final 10 mins gave us & it breaks my heart to feel this way 💔
• The snow ❄️, indoors, outdoors anywhere in time & space???
• The "Very wrong" Ruby??
• The Xmas song hidden within her soul?
• The 15yr old girl in a cloak from something out of the Traitors in 2004??
• Naming a child by spinning around in front of no one being physically there to name your child by pointing at a road sign??
• The missing 6 months of adventures mentioned in "The Devils Chord"??
• Despite 6 months of travelling the 1st planet Ruby travels to is in "Boom"??
I enjoyed Power of The Doctor & The Vanquishers more than that finale & it hurts!! 😭😭
That's so strange because in Norwich everyone was talking about it as we left
@@beejamjam Take a look at Mr Tardis's instant reaction & The Confused Adipose..People were talking but it wasn't overly positive in many screenings across the UK, Norwich being an exception clearly
I definitely err on hating it. I'd like to say that I've been pretty forgiving of it so far buts thats ... saying I appreciate the spectacle while constantly complaining about the story so maybe not as forgiving as I wish I was.
But this episode broke me. I COULDNT find a single nice thing to say about it (oh the line from Kate about bullets one day working against a monster made me chuckle. But also, unit is consistently incompetent. Overall it punished me for caring and it punished me for thinking and I can't even bring myself to rewatch it because I instantly remember dog-dragon-on-a-leash and that this whole thing was set up by sutekh leaving an anagram and think ... no, no it's not my job at this point to rewatch it and hope it makes sense, it should have layered and demonstrated its emotional logic better the first time. I'm not sitting through that again, it's the literal equivalent of jingling keys and hoping people aren't bored)
This feels actually very much like The Vanquishers to me. If the Giggle was the regeneration with the dancing villain and giant laser (power of the doctor), this was the giant mess with chaos and running around and a full cast of people who were completely inconsequential, and a too-large-scale-abstract apocalypse (dust / flux) eating everything. Chibnall lifted scenes from RTD for s12's ending, and now somehow RTD is copying CHIBNALL of all people??
The lady with the spoon may as well be Bel. Suddenly introduced, seemingly important, unclear why they bothered.
Just ... ugh. I'm very critical, I'll admit that straight up, but I am as critical of this episode as I was of the Whitaker era and that's saying something. The one defense I've consistently had was "well it's a step up from where we were I guess..." not anymore, this took the season from advantage to officially disappointing for me.
All of time and space and he needed to find someone to borrow a spoon 😂
Why does it feel like some showrunners hate their audience? They drop a bunch of clues and invite the audience to speculate and theorize. Then slap them in the face and laugh for doing just that, by presenting an explanation which mocks fans for having been so invested in the mystery they themselves set up.
I'm also thinking of the way the mystery was resolved for BBC Sherlock faking his death. And the way the mystery of Wanda's dead brother seemingly reappearing in the MCU's WandaVision show. And the mystery of Snoke being set up in the Force Awakens (only for Rian Johnson to come along in Last Jedi and just kill him, like random canon fodder - even mocking fans with a picture on social media, with him holding a sign saying "your Snoke theories are stupid"). All had unsatisfying or joke resolutions.
And those are just some examples off the top of my head.
Sutekh was so invested because he read all of RTD's Instagram's posts.
Oh bravo sir! xx
This episode was medicore and the god of dead died due to walkies through the time vortex
Ha! 😆
It doesn’t even make sense as he was hanging on in the Time Vortex every flight since Pyramids of Mars
The worst thing is the scene of Sutekh being dragged through the time vortex was the best part
@@bigbadbaron8416hanging onto a semi-controlled Time Machine, not being dragged through the vortex by a leash violently trying to hang on for dear life
Isn't it implied he was on the TARDIS the whole time or something? What's the reasoning that it was damaging?
It doesn't make sense why the TARDIS' perception filter followed ruby around in 73 yards, and why ruby's mother's fsce couldn't be seen on the tape. I think ruby was generated by the yardis and given a real life and family just like Susan Triad
The episode lost all tension when Carla died, sutekh got his ultimate victory so fast that i knew it would all be reversed anyway and sutekh ended up not killing a SINGLE person
Except for Marcus Scarman and his brother. Oh and that dude who wore the Fez and played the pipe organ a lot, whatever his name was. 😆
That's a better explanation than what we got.
The death of everyone should really have been the cliffhanger, that would've been so intense! An amazing way to introduce the god of death.
I think the reason she glitched on the tape is because of a simple slip-up, as the Doctor told Morris to "keep it steady" right after the glitch.
@@XconsigliereX His name was Ibrahim. Well, it's longer than that, but Ibrahim is his given name part. In Islamic places it's as common as Michael or Peter in the west, so no relation to the UNIT guy. Unless all Michael's are related and no one told me. 🤣
I think that ‘preserved in death’ means that there are versions of a dead planet earth from every time that the doctor landed on earth.
Like a mummy
THIS
What@@johnpolishimpossible2say191
As an adopted child, who did find their birth mother when it was too late (ie she had died), the fact that Ruby's mother is seen as a god-like person when unknown and just a regular person when found is the best possible outcome. It is true that you have to be adopted to understand, but OMG I cried and cried at the end.
No same especially because my mom grew up in foster care and I know a lot of the emotions she’s carried with her. I was bawling and super surprised that so many people hated it.
Exactly this. I was adopted pretty much after birth. Catholic, 19 and single and shame on the family etc. She was sent to a convent to have me and never saw me again. That was 1981. I reached out 9 years ago via the adoption agency(though I found her on Facebook months before, didn't feel right to just message out of the blue) she was so happy I tried to find her and had hoped I would. My half brothers all knew of me and that I was out there. So all very much a happy ending. They only stay about 8 miles away! So many weird coincidences throughout life it's so strange.
So that ending had me in floods of tears, having those feelings coming right back. First meeting, her crying and me just hugging her. Then we all(my wife, her husband and one of my half brothers) went to a coffee shop and chatted for a few hours like we'd known each other for years.
I am sorry you never got to meet your birth mum.
@@nonotamermaid ppl hated it because the show basically told us she was more than regular person and then said at the end "oh that was your own projections viewer." It felt disingenuous. I think it was the right call to make her normal and still important (because of how she made the right choice in where she left Ruby as a baby to be raised)...and i think the coffee shop scene was excellent, but the lead up to it felt really disingenuous and misleading. I think Moffat did a better job with keeping Clara be a normal lady but also have a payoff to the why of the mystery. Maybe make the moment in time when she was left be the thing causing the mystery? Suteks presence doing something? And absolutely not having the mom point at the sign.
@@nonotamermaidI don't think people hate the fact her mother was just a normal person as an idea alone. It's the fact it's created so many unanswered questions and potholes. Why did it always snow around ruby? Why did sutekh the god of death need to know who her mother was? He's likely already killed billions of people across the galaxy who don't know their parents so why is ruby so special in particular? Why did we never see ruby in the abandoned 73 yard timeline find her mother after compulsory DNA testing became a thing?
Yeah. I get it. It hit me in the feels too.
Don't have an issue with Ruby's parents not meaning anything, but what I absolutely do have an issue with is Ruby causing it to snow around her being teased as a sign that she's important somehow only for it to amount to diddly squat. Not even a throw away explanation to explain why it was happening.
Sutekh can see all of time and space, uncountable squillions of beings…and he gives a shit about some woman in London???
12th Doctor: “Listen. Question. Why do we talk out loud when we know we're alone? Conjecture. Because we know we're not. It could be with us every second and we would never know. How would you detect it, even sense it, except in those moments when, for no clear reason you choose to speak aloud? What would such a creature want? What would it do? Well? What would you do?”
I talk out loud to myself because I'm hilarious and I enjoy a laugh.
Wow. Considering hindsight, that's really cool to look back on considering Sutekh was there all that time.
Nice callback! Gold Star!
As a kid growing up I always imagined giants were watching us, like we were their version of TV, so sometimes when alone I tried to put on a good show🤣
The people of 2046 were destroyed but the buildings remained
Except in Pyramids, he destroyed everything on the future Earth. So much for evolving!
But... why did Ruby have magical powers? Why did it snow? Why does she have a magic song inside her?Why is Sutekh so interested in who her mom is?
She wasn't the one with magical powers that stuff just happened around her due the memories I thought that was obvious?
Still doesn't answer the stupid shit about her mum though, like her randomly turning around in the middle of the night after leaving her baby by a church and pointing to a sign for no one elses benefit than herself
@@Rogers1000I assumed she pointed because she knew the camera was there and they would check it? Might have misinterpreted it though
@@Rogers1000 yeah, I don’t understand how pointing at sign will name someone you abandon. Like how will the social workers know that she pointed at the sign??
They did Sutekh dirty.
Yes. And it’s disappointing, it’s also sad since I think it’ll be the last time we get the original voice actor and Sutekh for awhile. Unless they bring all the gods back to verse the Doctor again but idk lol
"This villain has a really iconic mask and costume, I know let's bring him back as a giant furry who gets defeated by the Doctor's companion clipping a leash on him. That'll be good".
💀💀
"Russel, I don't mean to be rude - but you were the one who made her significant to us" - YES!! So many people are saying that it's our fault for getting wrapped up and creating our own theories but we were led down that path by Russel so much so that when the reveal came, he could be like "Hah! Got you!"
It's like someone giving you a gift for your birthday, oh my god, it's an iPhone box - so we EXPECT it to be an iPhone, but instead - inside there is a brick. That's what he gave us, a brick - all to prove us wrong and get one over on us - yep, you won. And it left us incredibly disappointed.
Don't you think Russell T Davies is looking tired?
Lmao
Amen
Did the Doctor really tame the Devil Death Dog with a leash and a whistle?!! What is RTD thinking?!! :(
Didn’t the doctor literally destroy the actually devil himself by breaking some pots.
@somerandomyoutubeaccount5895 maybe. Not quite the same though.
@@MrWayneJP I mean one was a bigger baddie (the fucking devil myself.) and was destroyed a lot more easier.
@@MrWayneJP How? And don't forget when the Doctor saved time with a make out session.
Hahaha Doctor Who has always had some stupid things but it’s funny lol😂@@somerandomyoutubeaccount5895
A request to the internet - make #SutekhVibing a thing.
Just pictures of various Doctor Who events with Sutekh just hanging around...
Leaning on the Pandorica
Sunbathing in a beach chair with the metacrisis Doctor and Rose
Hanging out in a wheat field with a straw hat while 13 digs out Jo Martin's Tardis
...the possibilities are endless
Both the big dog sutekh and the og sutekh.
Chillin' in a wall of Azbantium for 4.5 Billion years, just vibing. lol
Make it so.
Oop, wrong franchise but sentiment remains. 😁😁
Use TH-cam's search bar for "TheDarkWhovian". This person is cranking out clips every dew hours re-contextualizing DW scenes to have Sutekh present in some fashion. A few are "duds", but most are hilarious, especially if you are familiar with the original scenes!
Nah. Sorry. Not getting this series. I thought I would give it a chance. I’m very disappointed ☹️. The original pyramids of Mars was light years better.
No offence to RTD but I don’t think there are many writers/producers as brilliant as Holmes and Hinchcliffe.
"I am Underwhelmed..." My precise feeling, too. ☹
It's worrying that we're feeling the same Deus Ex Machina endings that were the bane of Russell's writing the first time around. He's a great writer, but...
The memory tardis feels shoe-horned in. It feels like a writer writing for other writers, to show his wit. Ha! You only saw the 'obvious' anagram. I hid a sneaker one Su Tech!
Ruby's genetic mum died, and it didn't matter.
Having the God of Death, in Doctor Who, where this is already shaky ground does little for the stakes. Too many show runners take death as an inconvenience to be hand-waved away.
Look, we're pulling Death through the time vortex, so _... somehow..._ life is being restored, exactly as it was...
Yay! No consequences! Said no fan ever!
It feels treacherous to invest in the great acting, when you doubt any of it will matter.
I have never liked RTD's finales, each for various reasons. Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways is the exception. As inconsistent as they were, I prefer Moffat's finales. I was so bummed that RTD specifically let 14 deal with the guilt of the Flux and let 15 be the post-therapy Doctor, only to have him deal with yet another universe ending event.
The Doctor said to Ruby “You changed me” but I didn’t see that. I didn’t feel that. Their relationship still in early stages I couldn’t feel how important they are to each other. She is not the first companion to have 1 season with the doctor. But I just didn’t feel their friendship reached a level that I would care about their relationship.
There are a couple of things I dont understand:
- Rubys mom is just a Person alright, but where is the snow coming from then?
- Maestro said there is a hidden song in her. If its just "oh Ruby has a secret" then I doubt that Maestro would care. Especially after whiping out the whole Planet
- I feel like 73 yards should be resolved now, but I still dont really get it
It’s implied in the finale scene that Mrs. Flood is the actually cause of the snow trickling down.
@@somerandomyoutubeaccount5895 How? Space magic? And if she is another "god" (I'm already getting tired of them), why and how she was killed by Sutekh?
She is just another mystery box that will never by resolved RTD style...
And what about the hidden song?
It's just bad writing.
@@inquerion8867 Well that’s the thing we don’t know yet, also sutkeh isn’t actually a god. His species paraded themselves around as Egyptian gods so he’s more of a false Prophet (This was shown in pyramids of mars). It’s clear Rtd is attempting to do more era long story lines instead of just season long arcs.
@@somerandomyoutubeaccount5895 Yeah thats what I hope as well, but then this final kinda doesnt give us the answers we wanted 😕
@@inquerion8867 You copied and pasted this response from another back and forth on here. How lazy.
I'm not happy to see others share my negative feeling towards it as I didn't want it to be negative... But I am vindicated. The writing at the end of this episode was on a parr with some of Chibnall's wishy washy writing. My biggest pet peeve is following a story like this for it end with a wet fart. It's on the same level of disappointment as the fob watch non reveal from 13's era and I'm not used to this level of writing from RTD. I'm quite disappointed in that..
Posted elsewhere but My biggest questions:
- Why didn't they just go to 2046 right at the start of the series?
- Why did it actually snow?
- Why bother pointing at the sign? Nuns didn't see her so no one would know she was naming her
- What happened to Sutekh when the TARDIS was split?
- What happened to the memory TARDIS?
- 14 and Donna must have been turned to dust, wonder what he thought of that lol
- Sutekh was mystified by this random woman even though he could see ALL of time and space. Why couldn't he see 2046 when the mum took the DNA test? Surely he could find out who she was
- If the Toymaker was outside the universe until WBY with the Salt, when did he ever have chance to 'play a game' with Sutekh? He didn't want to go up against the one who waits, who “was there in the dark”, but Sutekh wasn't in the dark, he was on the TARDIS lol
It was all very meh tbh
We NEED a Susan cameo this era, surely!
Not defending the episode, thought it was quite underwhelming at best, but while the toymaker came into the universe in wild blue yonder it's implied that the toymaker and the pantheon of gods can exist all of time and space like when meistra confronted the doctor in present time and the past or the toymaker himself in the giggle jumping from the early 1900's to 2023 immediately
some of these are plotholes but not all
- she pointed at the sign because the doctor was there in front of her to see it
- the memory tardis is just that, a memory, it's not really that solid and on the verge of falling apart at any time when actually being used. it's not at risk for anyone else to steal or anything
- sutekh already killed ruby's mom in the death wave, he just couldn't see her in the window because the superstition and belief surrounding her that she was some unknown powerful entity made the memory into that
- whether you subscribe to "the tardis duplication was bringing the tardis from further down the timeline" or "15's tardis is the original and 14's is a copy", it doesn't change that 15's tardis is the one we've been following for the whole show. either sutekh just clung to 15's tardis or there were two of him at different points in time
For me it just falls into the Rian Johnson mystery subversion pothole where all of the fan theories generated by the community work out being far more compelling than the actual reveal
It was… fine. Not good, not bad, just sort of… fine. It’ll age into obscurity in 10 years like so many other episodes and serials and occasionally get brought up at parties or in conversations about the newest Dr Who atrocity.
Another issue with dropping sci Fi from the show is that the writers have less accountability to actually explain anything.
100% we've always had some sciencey, timey wimey explanation to fall back on. In this season, things just happen because... Magic?? 😢
Yeah 100 percent agree in stead of timey wimey you get ohh magic one works because of physics the other because of beliefs you might have to make up some 💩to justify the first one you know reverse the polarity that kind of thing the second one nah it just works because we said so 😂
People criticise Doctor Who for being fantasy, but most fantasy follows its own rules more than this.
Would have been kinder to all to have finished Dr. Who with ‘The Doctor Falls’
I feel like this season needed a Father's Day for that goodbye to have emotional impact Russell was aiming for.
Ruby in her own hubris tries to go back to 2004 and creates and emotional rift between her and The Doctor. Which is only partly reconciled out of necessity when Sutekh returns.
I would agreed but I don’t thonk rtd wanted to just remake one of his older episodes.
@@somerandomyoutubeaccount5895 Technically it wasn't his. But I get what you mean. I think given how similar this finale is to The Big Bang and Flux. He's not above mild retreads.
@@ywhok that’s fair.
Eveybody is not fine, anyone who ever existed, past and future now share an experience of death, I look forward to this universal PTSD being explored........
Captain Jack once clung onto the outside of TARDIS and flew through the vortex to infinity. I'm sure he would noticed Sutekh as he has a keen eye for interesting aliens. And I think Sutekh might have got more than he bargained for.
Nah Sutekh couldn’t resist Captain Jack either and held him on tighter😭😂
I did feel underwhelmed by the resolution of the story. I think maybe if they had included a scene where the doctor works out potential ways to defeat him, or if there was some kind of fight mid way, that showed us how dangerous Sutekh is, that would have gone a long way. Also, the logic of the resolutino was pretty broken. I think they needed to develop it some more.
I really do think that overhyping the mystery of Ruby and her mom helped make the ending a little disappointing. I think I would feel much less disappointmentI if I has just binged these eposides without any futher hyping from RTD or the BBC / Disney.
Why didnt idris say anything about him in the doctors wife?
Because presumably he was well hidden. Same reason the Time Lords never noticed in Deadly Assassin, Invasion of Time, Arc of Infinity, 5 Doctors, Trial of a Time Lord, nor the entire Time War presumably. Very Very Well Hidden. Undetectable.
Did the doctor reverse the polarity of death?
While there have definitely been worse finale episodes than this (Wedding of River Song, Hell Bent, all of 13's), the resolution to the Ruby Road Mystery Box has gotta be tied for last with The Timeless Child. I just dont understand why the narrative builds it up so so so much if they planned this to be the payoff.
Firmly a 4/10, worst in RTD2 by a mile, but about average for a Chib story, which hurts to say. Still hype for S2 though! One mid-bad finale cant erase the fact that the rest of the season was really really good
I liked Hell Bent, but I still hate Death in Heaven. Nothing is as bad as Timeless Child(ren) story, and hopefully nothing ever will be. I liked Empire of Death, but maybe I'm in the minority, IDK or care. I think maybe I was much happier with Doctor WHO in general before I got involved in social media and had other people trying to tell me what I should like or not.
whatever the next finale is i hope its more low stakes i kind want a ending similar to multiverse of madness where it doesn't end in a big battle
Knowing Russell this won’t happen
It’s gonna be another high stakes 2 parter
If Rubys mom really is completely ordinary, then that means Ruby has superpowers. She makes it snow with 0 explanation. So unless Ruby is going to pop up with the X Men thats just completely unanswered.
It's not Ruby making the Snow. It's Mrs Flood. See the very end ..... The Twist
@@user-od5do5ek6v How? Space magic? And if she is another "god" (I'm already getting tired of them), why and how she was killed by Sutekh?
She is just another mystery box that will never by resolved RTD style...
It's just bad writing.
@@inquerion8867I assume we will learn more about Mrs Floods in the Christmas special (bc of the outfit she’s wearing at the end) addressing the snow & the Christmas Song. Let’s see
Could also be a legion where Sutekh might've been causing all that
@@inquerion8867 Looking back at what she says to Cheri about prayer and how she would storm heaven's gates, I think she is another god, but not as powerful as Sutekh, obvi, and possibly resolved this Xmas or next season. "Never be resolved?" Seriously? I swear patience is just so lacking in some, it's positively shocking.
For someone who only started watching during New Who era...I'd have liked more of an explanation of who SuTek was. Like was it a god who existed during Egyptian times and did stuff on Earth....was it from Mars? Like I never got an explanation more than "god of death." Really unsatisfying.
I think it was left vague, like you're supposed to think he's the god of gods (above the Toymaker and Maestro et al). I can see how it might have been frustrating for NUWho only viewers.
In Classic Who he wasn't actually a god just a really powerful alien who, to the Egyptians, was god like - the old adage that advancement looks like magic to those who are not advanced.
Felt a bit off when there was the line about the original being "cultural appropriation" - it wasn't stealing culture it was taking advantage of it - not unlike the Goa'uld of SG-1 were actually aliens but paraded around the ancient earthlings as gods and were worshipped as such.
This two-parter definitely tossed everything it built up. The first part was a neat setup despite ending up in a Davros plan, but the second part folded on all accounts, from Sutekh's motivations to Ruby's mystery and that strange wrap-up with the Ex-Machina stuff and the convenient planning and the meta dialog about life and death and that departure being an underwhelmed version of Parting of the Ways even though it was nice to have something different... the payoff just wasn't there. What did Sutekh wait for? How was Ruby important? In fact, I think this story brought back some of the issues I had with the recent Davros changes. It completely changed the impact of Pyramids of Mars for the sake of explaining a 5-second cameo in it. I was fine with Ruby's mother being someone ordinary, but it's still an odd thing in retrospect and that impact was diminished.
Apart from that, even the season itself had a few hitches, from basic logical gaps in episodes like Dot and Bubble, Space Babies and BOOM, to the out-of-character oddities in Rogue and some weird tonal changes. There were a few good moments that stood out, especially with Mel, Kate and the Doctor. Many concepts felt interesting on paper and there were some moments of genuine comedy and fright, but... the pieces ultimately don't come together as neatly as one may initially assume.
Death + Death = Life??? WTF RTD?
To be fair, I didn't mind it. Sutekh was changing events from within each place and time, he setup his angels of death to destroy each world from within, creating these new timelines of mass destruction. Taking Sutekh into the time vortex meant he was now killing those timelines from outside the universe. He was bring death to the timelines of death. I would say, think of it more like a negative x negative = positive
Would have made more sense if he just threatened Sutekh to reverse what he done otherwise he'd be dragged through the vortex for eternity or something. Make it a "timelord victorious" moment.
I wouldnt mind but he could of done something like going back in time to when he landed on toms tardis and knocking him off into the vortex making the future of him dusting everyone not happen. But no...killing death = life for some reason..well done russel you outdid yourself with that nonsense
"-1 + -1 = +1"
~ Russell T Davies
More like +Death - Death = 0 / Reset
It worked for me. Death kills death. Like double negatives meaning the reverse of the intent.
I am cancelling my TV licence. I am tired of feeling like I have Stockholm Syndrome hoping this show I used to love, to become good again.
With every season, the list of episodes I'd want to skip on a rematch has grown to not being worth keeping up with the show at all now. And I felt the same during Chibnall's run, but RTD coming back gave me hope to keep watching. Hope that has been squashed with this season.
Hopefully, Ncuti and Jodie will get decent Big Finish stories in the years to come. It is a shame their talents were squashed with the current tv writing that they had to work with.
I am done, sorry for the rant.
"This season has been better than the Chibnall era" - that's a real low bar
I loved the build up of the penultimate episode, it was edge of the seat stuff. The finale just fell flat for me, it started well enough and had some cool ideas but the Ruby storyline just descended into a standard drama/soap. A lot of build up and a fairly lacklustre payoff. As for the rope, it was so obviously a standard bungee cord, I think a bit of effort could have been made to make it and the gloves a bit more interesting looking.
Preserved in death meant that the period of time did exist. As opposed to periods he didn't visit which basically didn't exist from the period before being destroyed. So 2046 exists even though everyone is dead. So, they got killed by the dust rather than never existing.
I'm probably much older than many of your subscribers, Thomas, and I watched 'The Pyramids of Mars' when it was first broadcast, so I had high hopes for the series finale. It was, perhaps, a bit disappointing when it descended into mawkishness, and I agree that the middle section seemed to flag. I feel the recurring idea that, 'You're ordinary, and that's the most special thing about you' is nonsense. A lot of people are indeed ordinary, so why wasn't Sutekh similarly perplexed by them? Then we had the inevitable deus ex machina 'reset button' plot device at the end, which is growing extremely thin for me. I also agree that there isn't enough dramatic tension between the doctor and Ruby. An old idea is that conflict is the essence of drama: subtract that, and we're left with a hippy love-in, which might be fun, but it's also vapid. When Ruby snapped that smart rope onto Sutekh, it reduced the God of Death to Scooby Doo, which may have been intended as comedy, but it was just... too easy! Mrs Flood? She's a cross between Missy, Mary Poppins and the Snow Queen, and that ruddy lamp post! I mean, how Narnia can you get? Some of the fan theories I've read were actually better than the big reveals we witnessed, so all in all, it could have been much better. Less marketing, more content please.
To say something nice, Sian Clifford's performance was quite moving. She really stood out to me. She nearly made me cry, and she was only in 2 short scenes.
I think she's Susan and will be back.
The Emperor has no clothes.
You've just discovered RTD isn't as good as people believed him to be. Episode 7 had been taken up with too much chat and hugging, with very little time devoted to Ruby's legend. In episode 8 we see so many plot holes and contrivances it looks like a leaky bucket.
The Doctor needed metal that hadn't come from within the Memory Tardis, so travelled to another world for a pointless conversation. Why didn't he simply ask Ruby or Mel for a belt buckle, brooch, earring or even a clasp from a bra!?!
As you point out Tharries, they also visited 2046. A time Sutehk had conveniently not destroyed. Although 73 Yards had ensured that timeline never existed!
Rose was there purely to be seen on scene in two episodes. In other words token inclusion. She added nothing to either episode, did she? And in fact at 15 or 16 she is too young to have left school, never might work in the very hub of a not so secret military organisation.
RTD clearly has a fixation with Mobility aids having "cool" weaponry yet has issue with Davros being in a lift support system. Make it make sense.
As you say he's taken too much inspiration from the MCU, but did you spot the Star Trek rip-off? The Tardis can now perform site-to-site teleport just like the transporters in modern Trek.
There was the angst over bringing death to Death, which makes no sense but previously had no qualms over killing all the goblins without warning. If you kill Death does that now mean no-one ever dies?
So Sutehk travelled with the Tardis for all this time, seeding Susan Triad. Could we not have seen a few inserted scenes of her with other Doctors? Just like they did with Clara?
Then again, not long ago, there were three versions of the Tardis side by side (in the Under Gallery). Were there also three Sutehks debating whether to spring a trap three times as powerful..?
The manner of Sutekh's downfall was I'm afraid what we've come to expect from RTD: lame. A dog lead and whistle is all it took, to take him for walkies. Really?!? The Big End of Game Boss, the God of Death (who was originally an alien not a deity) is beaten so easily! It's as lame as the thrilling Game of Catch or the Music Battle. Boring!
Finally we get the resolution to Ruby's story without telling us how or why she could make it snow. What's the point? Her mum was important because RTD had told us all season she was important right up to the point he told us she wasn't important. What a con job. Plus of course we find UNIT had access to a DNA database that could identify Ruby's parents, complete with images from social media. Why did they even bother with the Time Window? How about the big revelation Ruby was named after the street she was abandoned on. Did Ruby really not know this for 20 odd years of her life?!?
I feel as though a lot of the feeling of sutekh not doing much comes from the fact his masterplan has actually been taking place off-screen since pyramids of mars so he just got to kinda vibe out in his victory this episode rather than having to do much actively. imo last episode should have ended with the dust wiping things out not just the sutekh reveal, then it would have got to sit with audiences for a week and the pacing + reversal would have felt less rushed.
also i believe "preserved in death" simply meant everyone there was dead but the world's non-living elements survived the death wave.
I liked it less than TLORS, it didnt feel AS tense and spooky but I still thought it hit a lot of the necessary emotional beats. I agree that Ruby and The Doctor's relationship on screen was not developed, however when they are on screen together I never question the fact that they are friends because their chemistry is stellar.
Maybe its just because I don't really pay attention to RTD's posts but I didnt feel that the "we made her important" referred specifically to the audience and was bait-and-switching I felt that it just really was hammering home a very classic doctor who sentiment of everyone being important, even the most ordinary of people.
sorry for typing out a whole essay in the comments.
also Brindle Dee was the timeless child NO I WILL NOT EXPLAIN FURTHER AND NO I AM NOT SORRY,.
I felt insulted for being invested in a mystery all season long only for RTD to tell me it doesn't matter (Ruby's mother)
So Sutekh can survive in a weakened state holding onto the outside of the Tardis while it travels through time and space, but when he's spent all this time getting stronger he's defeated by being dragged by a rope, whatever an intelligent rope means.
Sutekh sitting on the tardis the whole time since pyramid of mars causes big plot holes. How did he not die during the number of times the tardis exploded ? Also why did he wait till now to come after the doctor ?
I think 'preserved in death' is literally just flowery language, I mean clearly everyone was dead, it isn't like Sutekh destroyed all the buildings and infrastructure, he just killed living creatures, so it's still around, it's just that everyone is dead
There is also a residual effect though. He was breaking the continuity of time. Hence why that woman wasn't able to remember her baby or much of the world.
Sutekh was killing people in the present. But also killing people in the past, such as grandparents, great grandparents. Death was happening simultaneously across time.
It was almost paradoxical. I wonder if infrastructure would have eventually started to fade as well since he effectively was killing the people who made certain things before they were made.
Russell did say on the video commentary though that there is a ton more going on with Ruby and all of her family that’s coming so I think that part is just a part that we haven’t gotten to yet. I think series 14 and 15 will probably really feel fit well together by the time 15 is done. Other than that, I really agreed with all of your thoughts as always!
i do wonder if the reason Sutekh was invested in ruby's mum was something similar to what you mentioned with rtd hyping her up on social media maybe sutekh heard them talk about her so much he became interested in her too
For a moment, I thought they were going to reveal Mel as Ruby's mum and then instantly have her killed by Sutekh 😅
I loved this episode, even if not everything came together. The scene with rubys mother in the coffee shop was tearful.
I liked that not everything was fully explained in that classic sci-fi way, actually.
Ofc a white woman says this 💀
‘Tearful’
You are being very generous with your words Tharries, let’s not beat around the bush……. It was shite! 😂
He doesn't want to cross...THE BOSS (but at least he is trying to say "do better", can't fault the kid for that... and even confused adipose wasn't impressed)
Fact that Sutekh clung onto the Tardis all along is just mad to think about, growing stronger in years and witnessing some of the greatest events of the Dr's life.
That’s one of the best parts, I really wanted to love this episode. At least part 1 is good
I bet he was really peeved when he got his paws and muzzle painted pink in The Happiness Patrol.
There should still be 3-4 more episodes to go! Not liking the trend of these shortened seasons.
I am not one to kink shame but your demand for more pain and humiliation is NSFW! 😂
I've seen a lot of whotubers say that the last time Doctor Who was on the cinema screen was the 50th Anniversary episode Day of the Doctor, but I've got to be pendantic here - Deep Breath was shown at the cinema
One issue, that's just occurred to me, they've already filmed season 2 and RTD said he's early into the writing for season 3. But that gives them no opportunity to reflect on viewer feedback from the first series. They could be doubling down on mistakes.
The first half was alright but the second half was very underwhelming and felt more like long lost family than doctor who and took me right out of the episode!!!!!
It felt very force!!!
This season has been a real damp squib. A really big and sad let down.
that was the first thing I thought too about the reveal of Ruby's mom being a nobody was that it was just like Rey from Rise of Skywalker. there it should have stayed that way, here it was hyped too much that she WAS important so in the end it doesn't live up to the hype. this finale was kind of a let down, and didn't live up to the hype of being a climax for the most part. Sutekh was offed too easily and everything went back to normal with no lasting consequences. It was alright, but not great.
I don't feel 14th Doctor's therapy out of order hasn't done 15th Doctor any help at all. He freezes far too much for my liking. 😅
It’s ok to just say it was crap. 👎RTD pulled the wool over all our eyes. Why would season 2 be any better? Fool me once…
I didn’t mind the Sutekh stuff (outside of him getting defeated way too early) but the Ruby Sunday reveal while well-meaning just didn’t add up and was very underwhelming.
RTD is a very good character writer, but not a particularly good Science Fiction writer. I've never particularly liked the EastEnders in Space take on Doctor Who, but when he's pulling on his strengths he can make it work. There's a classic Doctor Who fudge, like the Doctor waving the magic Sonic, where the problem is just made to go away and when an episode is enjoyable to watch and frenetic, they can get away with it, This felt a lit like that, I enjoyed it, but it makes less sense the more you think about it.
Why did it snow?
Because
Because time is memory now and her memory of that night is so strong that remembering it makes the same snow from that night pop up. Especially hilarious considering how many of us remember the night of our birth
@@bennettnez4711 I remember my brith on the daily, not sure why you dont 🤣
Because we believed it could. Apparently if the writer treats a character as important, that's all you need now. No need for storytelling, humans can be pure magic and pure gods can register as human. No reason or rhyme. What's grounded layered writing 🙃
@B-MC I'm not saying it makes sense or works, but it's definitely from the weird RTD push that time is memory now and she has a strong memory of the night of her birth😂
I like Ncuti but dont know why RTD has decided he needs to cry constantly!
We had the same new year style countdown from the crowd at my screening in Dudley 😂. It was also 5 minutes late like yours, I thought it was a mistake at our cinema but maybe not?
Overall I had a good time with this episode, but it was a mixed bag and I agree with the criticisms completely.
'When everyone's special... then no-one is!'
- Syndrome (The Incredibles)
The doctor cried THREE times this episode.
They were all for good reasons tho
He doesn't bottle things up anymore. He feels what he feels, and moves on. Like a normal person. I understand the desire for our heroes to be stoic arsekickers with icy cool composure, flicking a spent cigarette at their enemies feet, but then that's never really been Doctor WHO. Now that he's healed, even less so.
Now, do I think it has been overused this season, robbing it of any actual punch? Yes. Does it need to have punch? Or are we just trained by media to think it should? Maybe teaching young viewers for generations to bottle things in was always a bad move by the entertainment industry, and maybe it's time to take that trope and let it die because it sets an impossible standard for young men to try to live up to.
He has lived through SO much, there is no way you can defend him crying that much after already seeing so much death and destruction. Also, yes it has definitely been abused. For a man of his experience crying once (when all the worlds were being destroyed) makes sense but every other time is just him being a baby. He's not normal like us, to treat him as such would be disrespectful.
Its such a meme at this point 😂 he cries in every episode
Paul Gascoyne has cried less on a football pitch
Yeah you’re totally right with all this…completely agree. This could have been a 21st century Sutekh gothic horror story. A wasted opportunity here. But why did it snow with Ruby all the time? Don’t get it. Gatwa is brilliant with the serious stuff…..I could do without the general camp and the frivolity for the sake of frivolity in the rest of the series. 15 shows steel in the way that 13 never got to do much if at all. This wasn’t a season finale for the ages. Oh and keep Gatwa in a consistent costume. The leather coat should be iconic but dressing him up as the Fonz for this showdown just didn’t do it for me.
I just want to add that RTD forgot about Susan being in the Five Doctors
So many things didn't make sense for me here. 1 the mum. Okay she's normal, so then why couldn't Davina find out who she was from the Cameras we know that Camera footage coz unit are using that now. 1.2 why is she pointing at a sign. To name her child err what ? She doesn't know the Tardis or the doctor. oh I'm gonna stand still for 3 minutes pointing at you random person in the snow not say a word and then just leave. how dose that mean she got her name did the doctor go tell the people in the church, some woman pointed at a sign at me. it was the mum that means you should name her after this street. NO he gets in Tardis and leaves. So how did ruby get her name? Oh she was naming you NO SHE WASN'T, SHE HASN'T TOLD ANYONE. So random person stops her from her perspective after dropping her child off and she points at them ? Wouldn't the normal reaction be shame and embarrassment to run away? 1.3 so what was the snow about then? if she's just a normal human. We made her important by thinking she was important errr what okay can the doctor just make suteck or the daleks not important by thinking it? people can just develop supernatural powers by wishing for it hard enough now. 2 like you said suteck he dose nothing and its underwhelming how he got beaten. Plus how dose more death equal life? flying him through the time vortex if anything would just spread it more and speed it up right ? How dose death suddenly become life ? 2. 2 okay lets say Suteck is invested in this mystery she could be powerful enough to stop him so he's invested in the mystery of ruby take that away when she drops the monitor why can't suteck just instantly kill them by turning them to dust? he just kinda stands there and lets them tie a strong rope on him like a dog. He can mentally connect with mel across time and space wipe out all life but he can't resist the power of walkies. dog life I guess. 3 why did the doctor need to go to a planet for a spoon?... oh he needed metal err like there's no metal in the memory Tardis ? 4 if mrs flood is susan like their foreshadowing why is she working with suteck dunno never explained 5 what's the 73 yards thing about ? Maybe i missed it but they never explained. So wait that guy did become prime minister and he tested everyone and that's why you could find rubys mum now coz DNA testing err if she's a normal human surely unit could just find and trace their bloods through NHS??? 6 where is the other doctors in this so he's erased everywhere in time and space where the doctor has been. okay lets say it happened just in that year lets give them that none of the others doctors landed in 2024 so not through time just space. But Where is david Tennants doctor ? oh he and donna on holiday err NO there nowhere left to holiday lol sooo much wrong with this season and Russell said it best for me when talking to steven moffet i knew it then when i heard that. i knew it would be bad when i heard him saying lets stop pretending this show has canon and makes sense. its a magical box none of this makes sense. lets just say we can do anything. Best thing about this episode tbh was ruby looked good thats it. and the effects are the best they ever been the artists deserve credit but that's it. Never hurts to have attractive people on Camera haha shame she's leaving haha and what did the doctor actually DO here ran away cried said it was too hard went to get a spoon looked up rubies mum went back took suteck for a walk through time and space like a dog suteck just lets this happen coz just coz and everything was wonderful once again..... err wait a minute you used a magic hammer to duplicate the Tardis so did you duplicate suteck too there as well. oh no wait asking too many questions stop it brain just mindlessly cheer and share lmao
It was terrible. I was actually in full cringe mode during the last 10 mins. Doctor Who needs a whole new team to take over.
Yeah, it's been nearly 20 years since RTD brought back Doctor Who and the only show runners have been him, his friend and his other friend.
@@something1600 Typical BBC nepotism.
So is everyone in the Parallel World dead? The doctor landed there so he left a Susan there, from what I remember the time vortex in the main and Parallel are different so 15 didn’t actually save those people. Rip to all those people i guess?
I think it’s meant to be the essence of Sutekh that latched onto the Tardis and that’s why he remained undetected.
Other than the ruby’s mother reveal, I loved it. I actually enjoyed the episode as a whole better than last week’s. I think it was just after Sutekh was defeated where it started to deflate with the reveal. But I don’t think we’re 100% done with that storyline. I have a feeling Roger Ap Gwilliam will be revealed to be related to Ruby’s father.
The Ncuti Gatwa/Russell T Davies version of the Doctor is unbelievable, this series hasn’t worked for me one bit. Having watched Dr Who from the very first episode on the 23rd of November in 1963, I’ve seen the character change allot over the years and could still enjoy the series. I must confess I’ve not really been a fan of Russell T Davies or Chris Chibnall’s versions of the Doctor. For me, and I don’t think I’m alone, the Jodie Whittaker and Ncuti Gatwa eras have departed so much in quality of story and character development that I no longer feel invested in Dr Who, and I guess it’s time to say goodbye and remember how I felt as a nine year old back in 1963. As RTD or was it Ncuti Gatwa that said, ‘‘you’ve had your fun, now it’s someone else’s turn’’.
its crazy to think that there are people that were expected to pay the cost of a movie ticket to see this episode. if you want to waste your money you are free to do so
If they want to stick with 8 episodes, I really think they should consider serialising it. So one story spread across 8 episodes a bit like Flux (but a lot better than that, obviously).
I think there’s more to be told, it’s not over yet as ruby is in next series
Not for the whole thing though
every fucking episode is like 'its not over yet' can we get a fucking ending for something?
@@Fredsterfacefrom how RTD explained it I think she’ll be absent from the first 2-3 episodes (including Christmas) then will join Ncuti and Varada in the TARDIS for the last half of the series.
@@TheOnlyGamingDML everyone really thinks this the ending of ruby? I can’t wait to see their faces when more is revealed
rubys story has been a complete nonsense
After what I thought was a banging episode last week I couldn't quite find the correct words to describe how I felt after this one. Underwhelmed, yes, that's it.
It was unfulfilling and what looks to be the makings of good idea, fell flat. Too many inconsistences, it just didn't gel. What a shame.
If Sutekh was so easily tricked with a rope, why was the Toymaker so scared of challenging him? & where did his collars even come from?
The toymaker is easily tricked with a ball. They really put the pants in pantheon don't they?
Where's Captain Jack in all this? (likewise Owen Harper & Agent Rex). A guy (or 3) "immune to death" would be a bigger problem to Sutekh than the identity of a random woman he's already killed.
I can understand why people may have issues with this, but hey Russell Thanos’d everyone and gave us what I believe to be a satisfying twist surrounding Ruby’s mum despite her being ordinary. I enjoyed it for what it was and it did one main thing and reaffirm the fact that the show is still Doctor Who. I knew there’d be a Davies Ex Machina in there and honestly I wasn’t mad about it. And Mrs Flood…oh come on White Guardian.
White Guardian? Really? After "tell your maker I will come to storm down his gates of gold and seize his kingdom in my true name," I kinda think she might be darker than that.
this was a ten episode season squashed into eight episodes. the opener warm up episode felt like 10 minutes of episode 1 plus the remainder being a trimmed down episode 2. and the finale was a three episode finale squashed into two... more specifically, legend was delivered in full and empire was two 45 min episodes crammed into 50 minutes with all the elaboration, puzzling, dialogue stripped from the middle 30 minutes pretty much. nothing hung together because all the logical links gotleft out... it was just 'the doctor does this' than 'the doctor does this other thing' then 'the doctor does another thing'. if this is what disney funding is gonna cost us, I'd happily go back to 1970s men-in-cardboard-and-bubblewrap costumes tbh.
The reason you feel underwhelmed, is because it was complete shit.
Just one of the many many plot holes in this garbage:-
In "The Doctor's Wife", wouldn't the TARDIS say to the Doctor...FFS you have a giant rat in the TARDIS called Sutekh!!! lol😂😂🤣🤣😂😂
I was disappointed with the whole Ruby ending
I've been a fan since the 4th Doctor and I had such high hopes for this season. Disappointed is an understatement, this is actually the first time in my life I'm considering not bothering with the next season. Even my kids aren't interested in it and they only started with Capaldi and worked backwards.
Well, I liked it better than you did. Like you, the middle part felt-like something was off. Why did Dr go to that plant and that woman knew nothing. I never understood why it was always snowing when Ruby was upset. That’s life because simple things, we make them very important to us. But, I was happy that the colonel soldier came back. Yes, Rose and that 13 old kid was not needed.
Sorry Tharries, but I skipped this series & by all accounts I was right to. The writing sounds terrible. For example, in The Doctor’s Wife how come the TARDIS didn’t know there’d been a giant God of death hanging on to her for about 300 years ? Nothing makes sense. The sooner Davies goes the better.
There was a lot of filler and chit chat. What was with the woman with the spoon??? RTD had a lot of time to fill because his script was so flimsy. Going and reversing everything yet again??? Very poor writing this season. An underwhelming season.
I just don't understand why RTD isn't RTDing...he wrote Doomsday, The End of Time, Parting of the Ways, Journey's End. THIS is what he could come up with for the end of a series that really needed to hit every mark. I just have to hope he's playing the long game and there's more going on here. Because it was sloppy. I haven't brought myself to rewatch it yet.
Your posts are always well put together and very interesting
Mrs flood is creating the snow
Underwhelmed. No sense to it at all. Sci fi should hold some kind of logic to it. Why would a supremely powerful being give a damn about Ruby, her mother, about destroying everything. To what end? Everything is gone, hahaha, helloooo, Oh hell what do I do now, this is sooooo boring shall I bring everyone back just to kill them again? Bugger, I never thought about the eternity of tedium!!
When RTD was originally showrunner he had a tendency to "big up" a season arc and not generally deliver. Again, he's done that here. His greatest season finale STILL remains the "Dalek Crucible" 2 parter.
Yeah. He has such marvelous setup. Then you have a finale that’s just doesn’t deliver. I wasn’t surprised but I hoped RTD had evolved