When Sutekh was tied to the tardis, I was genuinely expecting a one-liner like "SUTEKH!! Wanna go walkies?!" - Gatwa must have said that in at least 1 blooper take, it was a perfect setup.
you seem to encompass the very kind of watcher of who that i feel i am, where it doesnt matter so much if it was a great episode or a bad episode, that you love it for better or worse all the same and i think thats wonderful. i love each episode of doctor who, some more than others, but love them all regardless. yes, even love and monsters, hell bent, the timeless child, etc. i love this show for how it can literally go anywhere, from a serious world stakes event to literal space babies fighting off a booger monster to farting aliens trying to take over the govenment to a yelling standoff between daleks and cybermen. its the good-awestriking bits and the bad groan-worthy bits with the serious, dark, silly and fun blended all together together that make me cherish this show
If you think about it, Empire of Death is basically Avengers Infinity War 2.0, except unlike Thanos, Sutekh wipes out the whole universe, not just 50%.
Just as I was going to remark. Although I have not seen Infinity War, I've seen enough clips to know what happens. This, to me, looks like RTD saying, "Oh yes! Now I have my hands on the cash, I can do Infinity War. Now, who do I have that can conjure up such a beast? . . . Waitaminute! Sutekh! He would fit the bill. I can spectacularly destroy stuff and then use the magic reset button. I can do that can't I! I'm afraid that it strikes me that RTD is hanging onto the coat tails of MCU much in the same way that Paramount did when they decided upon Star Trek: The Motion Picture after the success of Star Wars. They cast around for something similar in their keepsake box.
@@BroZilla-vh3tu Oh dear. RTD really is getting in a bot of a middle! You know, Sad really, isn't it? People spend all their time making nice things, and other people come along and break them.
If you want an even better example, watch The Stolen Earth a David tennant episode and that is just like Infinity War (might wanna a bit of context tho before watching)
I found the Sutekh stuff anticlimactic after all the build up last week but Sian Clifford's scene and Ruby meeting her birth mother hit me like a ton of bricks. Cried at both. "I think my daughter died, didn't she? And I forgot". Ooof! What a line, what a delivery.
THAT was peak DW. I hear many critical voices. And I understand them, but to me, they did not pay attention. You said it correctly "the power of belief" nothing has to be always a big deal or a big reveal. This episode had everything DW stands vor. A message, excitement, good soundtrack, a doctor speech (several in fact). Loved it!
You say that nothing has to be a big reveal, you might wanna explain it to russel. Bro spent a full season building up ruby's mum in a variety of ways, only for her to be absolutely nobody. And then wastes an entire episode revealing a 50 year old villain that will have zero impact or meaning for his new "20-30's fanbase".
As a reader of Terry Pratchett I get it. Plus a player of FF 14. Belief has a power. A bit more power in a fantasy world. In our world it still has power but it much simpler, motivating people to do or try to create concepts and those skilled things.
I really like this comment. I would say I'm in the 50/50 group where I feel a bit undecided. But it has given me a thought. I do genuinely like the concept of Rubys mother being a normal person, but it would be cool if the power they received through belief stayed with her, and we see that like Ruby, she has abilities aswell. It would be cool if RTD showed that the mother did have special insight and powers like manifesting snow aswell or bringing back the Carol of the Bells. And perhaps when they met up again, their powers combined when they hug and it started snowing fully. Just something to make her feel a bit more special, and how the powers she received through belief in her, actually stayed with her like Ruby has with her powers.
Glad you mentioned the part about Harry Potter. In a similar fashion, like the show Supernatural, the belief in something/god gives it power. Sutekh's belief made all the weird things happen with Ruby (ie the snow). Maybe even protected her in a way because he wanted the answer
Am I the only one who is hopping that this finally could be used as some kind of stealth way to resurrect the Time Lords. That's the biggest thing from the Chibnall era that irks me.
I really hope so - I don't think it'll reverse Flux, because that didn't 'kill' everything, everything the flux touched just ceased to be - so I think if Gallifrey wasn't taken by Flux and was just genocided by the Master, that this could be what brings them back
@@matteopullicino yeah she was wasn’t she? Or something very similar to it. I don’t understand how she could be Clara if that’s where they are going. I mean with Moffat back as a writer writing Boom and the Christmas special maybe she is. But idk. Or maybe a Clara splinter or a child or something. Idk. I think she is probably unrelated to Clara but we will see.
Loved it because of the themes & acting. The only problem is that I kinda wanted to adopt Sutekh in his puppy/bat form! The scene that really made it for me was the Doctor meeting the kind woman to get some non-remembered metal to adjust the clarity of the memory screen: it was simple, real and beautifully tragic. Great reaction, as always 💜💜➕🌈🟦
IMHO this didn't live up to the hype that they built themselves over the series (with Susan twist) or indeed even the last episode (Legend of Ruby Sunday) which had me ecstatic with the return of Sutekh. I don't think it gave enough time for his villainy or his power to be felt, especially on the back of waiting all this time for his return. Then on top of that the let down of ruby's mum (I get the idea that she's only powerful because we gave her power thing) it just felt like a let down. Like when you see a burger on a menu that looks a foot tall and fresh and juicy and it comes out looking like it's been slapped down and squished.
I enjoyed it but need to watch again. The revelation about Ruby's Mum was a bit deflating after all the wonderful theories but I get it. I loved the scene on the planet and the lady without memory. I'm wondering if that baby becomes the next companion or I must stop overthinking. I misheard the name of the mother and thought they said Lucie Miller (a Big Finish companion played by Sheridan Smith) - that got me going for a minute and then the mum appeared and did look a little like Sheridan. Why did it keep snowing and what was the wrong song Ruby had in her? Why hasn’t the TARDIS been groaning since season 13? Mrs Flood - wearing Clara's final outfit and saying clever boy. Then wearing an outfit which was very Romana (classic Who Time Lord companion) but carrying an umbrella and case like Mary Poppins or Missy.
Well in fact I think it was said (or maybe a mistranslation) that Sutekh had been there since his banishment in the Time Vortex. Then it should have been groaning long before. But that's just a plot hole. They should have searched for another explanation.
@@krpowe6663 Plot hole would be he died in Pyramids trying to reach the end of the time tunnel. In terms of the groaning, by the TARDIS I can accept that Sutekh prevented it for decades but what changed? If it was Ruby's memories somehow blocking Sutekh that’s fine. But why did it groan in Wild Blue Yonder or is it all just timey wimey stuff.
Series 14/1 (Soft Reboot) was a very good season of Doctor Who and Ncuti Gatwa really wasn't that bad as The Doctor and I liked new companion Millie Gibson and Ncuti Gatwa and Millie Gibson had great chemistry. My favourite episodes were Church on Ruby Road Road and Boom. Worst episode was The Devil's Chord. The season finale Empire of Death was dark, epic and emotional with outstanding performances by Ncuti Gatwa and Millie Gibson. I believe Russell T. Davies was influenced by Avengers: Infinity War. Avengers: Endgame and Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker. The ending was so emotional. Sad to see Ruby Sunday go.
I loved it, but i think some will be let down because there wasnt another huge reveal. But i like he didnt do that and let the story carry itself without using a wham moment as a crutch
facts. im down to see people who didnt enjoy it and hear their well presented thoughts on why, but i refuse to watch any reaction or opinion piece that clearly wants to hate on the show and offers no opinion beyond "its trash." by far one of my more favorite reactions to this episode. wholesome for sure, brought me joy to watch this
- Why didn't they just go to 2046 right at the start of the series? - Why did it actually snow? - Why bother pointing at the sign? Nuns didn't see her so no one would know she was naming her - What happened to Sutekh when the TARDIS was split? - What happened to the memory TARDIS? - 14 and Donna must have been turned to dust, wonder what he thought of that lol - Sutekh was mystified by this random woman even though he could see ALL of time and space. Why couldn't he see 2046 when the mum took the DNA test? Surely he could find out who she was It was all very meh tbh We NEED a Susan cameo this era, surely!
In regards to the first question, that's something you really really have to suspend your disbelief about. Because, there's so many situations in doctor who where any kind of problem could be solved with future technology, but never will be unless the plot decides it. I've always thought this, especially after The Girl Who Died/The Woman Who Lived. There's tech in the doctor who universe that literally can make people immortal forever, SURELY there's solutions to pretty much any problem with future tech. But the doctor never gets that future tech to help out, unless the plot is actively demanding it. It's something you kinda have to put up with when you watch doctor who
because they didn't know they made dna tests in 2046, they only found out after they saw it in the memory Tardis. it probably snowed because of the connection ruby had with the Tardis and because all those gods believed ruby to be something else, faith gave her power. she could be seen in the camera footage. and maybe she was just being a dramatic teenager. he probably just stayed on the one ncuti got. I guess it's still in 2046, lol. probably "sh*t" sutekh is a whovian and he didn't want any spoilers, he was invested.
What could have been an excellent episode was a bit 'meh' to be honest. It didn't live up to the hype of the way in. The episode's resolution just didn't have the justification for how we got there. RTD has shown us several times now that he can write himself into a good cliff-hanger and he's really not very good at writing the resolution. 'See what happens when death meets death ... we get life' ... erm, what? They are always too fast, a one-trick gimmick or loophole, bam they're done. No nuances, no convoluted logic, very little 'timey-wimey'. He needs someone else to write the Doctor & co a way out of the situation that he's got them into.
Sutekh seemed underserved in this episode. He doesn’t actually physically do anything as he spends the whole episode just clinging onto the Tardis for some reason (budget i presume) & he’s disposed of by attaching a dog lead to his collar & dragging him into the vortex - this ‘god of gods’ couldn’t snap a rope, unclip it from his collar or even pull himself along the rope to grab onto the Tardis again?!😮
Doctor Who is not designed to be a episode series. It is all about character development and relationships and you just don’t get enough time with the episodes.
It was not even a first draft. As a fan from the 70s this was its final chance and Unit anyone can work there lol, even the family pet. Money would have been better spent animating big finish.
I'm seeing a pattern amongst DW reactors/reviewers and commentators, especially for this episode. There are virtually zero comments or remarks about the Doctor himself and the part he played in the episode and I think this is evident pretty much throughout the entire series. The Doctor has almost been playing a bit part, a supporting role or not even present. It seems as though all the events have been going on around him and in spite of him. He's very rarely come up with solutions, he's pretty much shed tears in every episode, but every now and then he'll wave his hands, shout some exclamation or other and get frustrated, as though the lines were put in just to remind the viewer that the Doctor is still on our screens. There's a lack of agency, control, purpose, authority, knowledge and wisdom (if intentional, why?). I very well know the Doctor is far from infallible, but this incarnation is made to appear like some flaccid, weak and incapable human, instead of a deep thinking, problem solving, ancient and resilient alien Time Lord. This is not a good impression to give for the first season directed, for the most part, at a new audience.
RTD is a sligh fox 2005 ep 1 Rose, the guy clive says to rose the doctor rides with one constant companion DEATH ☠
Oh god that's good
Oh, that is so... I can´t find the right word.
As an adoptee, this episode played beautiful music on my heartstrings 💙💙
When Sutekh was tied to the tardis, I was genuinely expecting a one-liner like "SUTEKH!! Wanna go walkies?!" - Gatwa must have said that in at least 1 blooper take, it was a perfect setup.
you seem to encompass the very kind of watcher of who that i feel i am, where it doesnt matter so much if it was a great episode or a bad episode, that you love it for better or worse all the same and i think thats wonderful. i love each episode of doctor who, some more than others, but love them all regardless. yes, even love and monsters, hell bent, the timeless child, etc. i love this show for how it can literally go anywhere, from a serious world stakes event to literal space babies fighting off a booger monster to farting aliens trying to take over the govenment to a yelling standoff between daleks and cybermen. its the good-awestriking bits and the bad groan-worthy bits with the serious, dark, silly and fun blended all together together that make me cherish this show
If you think about it, Empire of Death is basically Avengers Infinity War 2.0, except unlike Thanos, Sutekh wipes out the whole universe, not just 50%.
Just as I was going to remark. Although I have not seen Infinity War, I've seen enough clips to know what happens. This, to me, looks like RTD saying, "Oh yes! Now I have my hands on the cash, I can do Infinity War. Now, who do I have that can conjure up such a beast? . . . Waitaminute! Sutekh! He would fit the bill. I can spectacularly destroy stuff and then use the magic reset button. I can do that can't I!
I'm afraid that it strikes me that RTD is hanging onto the coat tails of MCU much in the same way that Paramount did when they decided upon Star Trek: The Motion Picture after the success of Star Wars. They cast around for something similar in their keepsake box.
@@josefschiltz2192 he also took inspiration from Last Jedi for the mother twist without considering what made the reveal in TLJ work
@@BroZilla-vh3tu Oh dear. RTD really is getting in a bot of a middle! You know, Sad really, isn't it? People spend all their time making nice things, and other people come along and break them.
@@josefschiltz2192Still better that Clara "imposible girl" Oswald.
If you want an even better example, watch The Stolen Earth a David tennant episode and that is just like Infinity War (might wanna a bit of context tho before watching)
I found the Sutekh stuff anticlimactic after all the build up last week but Sian Clifford's scene and Ruby meeting her birth mother hit me like a ton of bricks. Cried at both. "I think my daughter died, didn't she? And I forgot". Ooof! What a line, what a delivery.
THAT was peak DW. I hear many critical voices. And I understand them, but to me, they did not pay attention. You said it correctly "the power of belief" nothing has to be always a big deal or a big reveal. This episode had everything DW stands vor. A message, excitement, good soundtrack, a doctor speech (several in fact). Loved it!
You say that nothing has to be a big reveal, you might wanna explain it to russel.
Bro spent a full season building up ruby's mum in a variety of ways, only for her to be absolutely nobody.
And then wastes an entire episode revealing a 50 year old villain that will have zero impact or meaning for his new "20-30's fanbase".
As a reader of Terry Pratchett I get it. Plus a player of FF 14. Belief has a power. A bit more power in a fantasy world. In our world it still has power but it much simpler, motivating people to do or try to create concepts and those skilled things.
@@PharaohredThis is a based and factually correct comment. The sign post scene is still having me roll my eyes out of their sockets.
Agreed. Simple and unimaginative folk just don't seem to get it at all.
I really like this comment. I would say I'm in the 50/50 group where I feel a bit undecided. But it has given me a thought. I do genuinely like the concept of Rubys mother being a normal person, but it would be cool if the power they received through belief stayed with her, and we see that like Ruby, she has abilities aswell. It would be cool if RTD showed that the mother did have special insight and powers like manifesting snow aswell or bringing back the Carol of the Bells. And perhaps when they met up again, their powers combined when they hug and it started snowing fully. Just something to make her feel a bit more special, and how the powers she received through belief in her, actually stayed with her like Ruby has with her powers.
Glad you mentioned the part about Harry Potter. In a similar fashion, like the show Supernatural, the belief in something/god gives it power. Sutekh's belief made all the weird things happen with Ruby (ie the snow). Maybe even protected her in a way because he wanted the answer
Am I the only one who is hopping that this finally could be used as some kind of stealth way to resurrect the Time Lords. That's the biggest thing from the Chibnall era that irks me.
I really hope so - I don't think it'll reverse Flux, because that didn't 'kill' everything, everything the flux touched just ceased to be - so I think if Gallifrey wasn't taken by Flux and was just genocided by the Master, that this could be what brings them back
“That clever boy” gave me such Clara “run you clever boy” vibes.
I mean she was wearing the exact same costume Clara was wearing when she died!
@@matteopullicino yeah she was wasn’t she? Or something very similar to it. I don’t understand how she could be Clara if that’s where they are going. I mean with Moffat back as a writer writing Boom and the Christmas special maybe she is. But idk. Or maybe a Clara splinter or a child or something. Idk. I think she is probably unrelated to Clara but we will see.
Loved it because of the themes & acting. The only problem is that I kinda wanted to adopt Sutekh in his puppy/bat form!
The scene that really made it for me was the Doctor meeting the kind woman to get some non-remembered metal to adjust the clarity of the memory screen: it was simple, real and beautifully tragic.
Great reaction, as always 💜💜➕🌈🟦
IMHO this didn't live up to the hype that they built themselves over the series (with Susan twist) or indeed even the last episode (Legend of Ruby Sunday) which had me ecstatic with the return of Sutekh.
I don't think it gave enough time for his villainy or his power to be felt, especially on the back of waiting all this time for his return.
Then on top of that the let down of ruby's mum (I get the idea that she's only powerful because we gave her power thing) it just felt like a let down. Like when you see a burger on a menu that looks a foot tall and fresh and juicy and it comes out looking like it's been slapped down and squished.
I enjoyed it but need to watch again. The revelation about Ruby's Mum was a bit deflating after all the wonderful theories but I get it. I loved the scene on the planet and the lady without memory. I'm wondering if that baby becomes the next companion or I must stop overthinking. I misheard the name of the mother and thought they said Lucie Miller (a Big Finish companion played by Sheridan Smith) - that got me going for a minute and then the mum appeared and did look a little like Sheridan. Why did it keep snowing and what was the wrong song Ruby had in her? Why hasn’t the TARDIS been groaning since season 13? Mrs Flood - wearing Clara's final outfit and saying clever boy. Then wearing an outfit which was very Romana (classic Who Time Lord companion) but carrying an umbrella and case like Mary Poppins or Missy.
Well in fact I think it was said (or maybe a mistranslation) that Sutekh had been there since his banishment in the Time Vortex. Then it should have been groaning long before. But that's just a plot hole. They should have searched for another explanation.
@@krpowe6663 Plot hole would be he died in Pyramids trying to reach the end of the time tunnel. In terms of the groaning, by the TARDIS I can accept that Sutekh prevented it for decades but what changed? If it was Ruby's memories somehow blocking Sutekh that’s fine. But why did it groan in Wild Blue Yonder or is it all just timey wimey stuff.
@@stuartwho I think it's due to the Flux weakening creation by destroying half the universe IMO.
Series 14/1 (Soft Reboot) was a very good season of Doctor Who and Ncuti Gatwa really wasn't that bad as The Doctor and I liked new companion Millie Gibson and Ncuti Gatwa and Millie Gibson had great chemistry. My favourite episodes were Church on Ruby Road Road and Boom. Worst episode was The Devil's Chord. The season finale Empire of Death was dark, epic and emotional with outstanding performances by Ncuti Gatwa and Millie Gibson. I believe Russell T. Davies was influenced by Avengers: Infinity War. Avengers: Endgame and Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker. The ending was so emotional. Sad to see Ruby Sunday go.
I loved it, but i think some will be let down because there wasnt another huge reveal. But i like he didnt do that and let the story carry itself without using a wham moment as a crutch
I was really expecting something bad to happen to Ruby so I’m glad she just left peacefully
What a wholesome reaction!
facts. im down to see people who didnt enjoy it and hear their well presented thoughts on why, but i refuse to watch any reaction or opinion piece that clearly wants to hate on the show and offers no opinion beyond "its trash." by far one of my more favorite reactions to this episode. wholesome for sure, brought me joy to watch this
- Why didn't they just go to 2046 right at the start of the series?
- Why did it actually snow?
- Why bother pointing at the sign? Nuns didn't see her so no one would know she was naming her
- What happened to Sutekh when the TARDIS was split?
- What happened to the memory TARDIS?
- 14 and Donna must have been turned to dust, wonder what he thought of that lol
- Sutekh was mystified by this random woman even though he could see ALL of time and space. Why couldn't he see 2046 when the mum took the DNA test? Surely he could find out who she was
It was all very meh tbh
We NEED a Susan cameo this era, surely!
In regards to the first question, that's something you really really have to suspend your disbelief about. Because, there's so many situations in doctor who where any kind of problem could be solved with future technology, but never will be unless the plot decides it.
I've always thought this, especially after The Girl Who Died/The Woman Who Lived. There's tech in the doctor who universe that literally can make people immortal forever, SURELY there's solutions to pretty much any problem with future tech. But the doctor never gets that future tech to help out, unless the plot is actively demanding it. It's something you kinda have to put up with when you watch doctor who
because they didn't know they made dna tests in 2046, they only found out after they saw it in the memory Tardis.
it probably snowed because of the connection ruby had with the Tardis and because all those gods believed ruby to be something else, faith gave her power.
she could be seen in the camera footage. and maybe she was just being a dramatic teenager.
he probably just stayed on the one ncuti got.
I guess it's still in 2046, lol.
probably "sh*t"
sutekh is a whovian and he didn't want any spoilers, he was invested.
What could have been an excellent episode was a bit 'meh' to be honest. It didn't live up to the hype of the way in. The episode's resolution just didn't have the justification for how we got there.
RTD has shown us several times now that he can write himself into a good cliff-hanger and he's really not very good at writing the resolution. 'See what happens when death meets death ... we get life' ... erm, what?
They are always too fast, a one-trick gimmick or loophole, bam they're done. No nuances, no convoluted logic, very little 'timey-wimey'.
He needs someone else to write the Doctor & co a way out of the situation that he's got them into.
Always here after each episode! Hope you got some pizza.
Give that man a PIZZA !
Sutekh seemed underserved in this episode. He doesn’t actually physically do anything as he spends the whole episode just clinging onto the Tardis for some reason (budget i presume) & he’s disposed of by attaching a dog lead to his collar & dragging him into the vortex - this ‘god of gods’ couldn’t snap a rope, unclip it from his collar or even pull himself along the rope to grab onto the Tardis again?!😮
Doctor Who is not designed to be a episode series. It is all about character development and relationships and you just don’t get enough time with the episodes.
I think work well here.
It was not even a first draft. As a fan from the 70s this was its final chance and Unit anyone can work there lol, even the family pet. Money would have been better spent animating big finish.
Genuine question, is it super wild that an altruistic technological genius would be offered a job at UNIT?
RTD at his Dr Who best. I think simple and unimaginative folk will just not get it at all.
It was a hot mess. Nothing comes close to how convoluted the plot was. And it copied the Avengers.
I'm seeing a pattern amongst DW reactors/reviewers and commentators, especially for this episode. There are virtually zero comments or remarks about the Doctor himself and the part he played in the episode and I think this is evident pretty much throughout the entire series. The Doctor has almost been playing a bit part, a supporting role or not even present. It seems as though all the events have been going on around him and in spite of him. He's very rarely come up with solutions, he's pretty much shed tears in every episode, but every now and then he'll wave his hands, shout some exclamation or other and get frustrated, as though the lines were put in just to remind the viewer that the Doctor is still on our screens. There's a lack of agency, control, purpose, authority, knowledge and wisdom (if intentional, why?). I very well know the Doctor is far from infallible, but this incarnation is made to appear like some flaccid, weak and incapable human, instead of a deep thinking, problem solving, ancient and resilient alien Time Lord. This is not a good impression to give for the first season directed, for the most part, at a new audience.
🕹️🕹️🟦🟦👩🏻✈️
wow no emotions to kate's death. not a whovian.
intelligent rope and gloves oh come on. Juvenile.
And a whistle
@@craigshipway6926and a spoon 🥄
This comment chain spittin faxx lol