Geissele Reaction Rod no wait the half price alternative
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- Kley Zion barrel spline tool is a great alternative to the clam shell & pin style vise blocks. Works great for barrel changes and any other upper receiver work that needs to be done at half the price of the Geissele.
www.botach.com...
and one other alternative
www.brownells.c...
That “good n’ tight” had me cracking up. Good vid
What are we here for your amusement? lol thanks for watching
I have the Brownells version and I attached a Neodymium magnet to the end which magnetizes the whole tool which does a good job of holding onto the barrel extension. This is handy so it doesn't casually float away while working on it.
That is a great idea thanks for sharing, we are going to have to give that a try.
I just finished assembly of my AR. I bought the Kley Zion tool because of this review and I'm glad I did. Not only did it work perfectly for barrel installation; but the handguard, compensator, and scope as well. I recommend it to everyone I know that's considering building their own rifle. Thanks for a great review!
That's awesome to hear, glad we could help. If you want to show off your build email us a pic and we will share it on our Instagram.
Liberty Marksman I definitely will. expecting my scope tomorrow, so I'll get ya'll a pic once it's installed!
I wasn't happy with the Burris I bought, so it's getting a Vortex
Sounds good Richard
Much to my chagrin I discovered this tool after purchasing the Geissele Reaction Rod. Live and learn.
just thank your elder armorers for coming up with this NEW alternative, there was no such tool 50 years ago, when we started building custom
I did buy this Botach reaction rod based on your advice btw and it works great. It's a very good and necessary investment. thanks.
Picked one up this week, thanks for the heads up!
Thank you so much for this info. I've bought myself both the .223 and .308 versions. For anyone considering these, mine are working great and I've been happy with them. One note - there is a steel and aluminum versions, and I can only speak to the steel versions, since that's what I have. The difference is going to be that the aluminum is softer and won't stand up to as much rough handling as the steel would. (But how rough are you going to be, really?) A+
Thanks for watching!
Oh yeah man definitely a great tip to go to botach for that kley-Zion barrel spline tool. I have the geissele for the ar15 but needed one for my new 7.62 build. Great deal and what a store!!! So glad you told me about them. I see a lot of purchases in my future from botach.com
seekins precision hell yea one of my favorite
That big honkin bench vise is a big plus.
Midwest industries makes a nice reaction rod too. Holds the upper and barrel
The midwest one is far superior
Not in stock anyplace
I think the Midwest industries reaction rod is the best one.. it has a sail/hump on top for more support inside the upper check it out
I agree, at the time we made this, that was not out yet.
Out of stock everyplace after a 30 min search
I always just use aluminum barrel jaws clamped in a vice but this looks like a neat way to do it. My aluminum barrel block/jaws are soft aluminum and don't scratch the barrel. Sometime I get some aluminum rub off on the barrel but that comes off with some clp and toothbrush.
Thanks guys I picked one up for my 308.
I was on botach today looking at these. I used their make an offer button. I submitted $55 it was rejected. Their counter offer was for 0% off and my new price was $59.95. Waste of my fricking time! So why even have a function like that?
Anyways great vid, hope the gun shoots as good as it looks!!
Still a steal bruh
Looks like the Aero Precision M5E1 upper I have.
Its the M4E1, that was a .223 Wylde barrel he put on
Follow up news flash. Primaryarms.com has Geissele reaction rod on sale for labor day weekend 2016 for 25% off which amounts to $74.25 + transp. Still more than the Kley-Zion but at least you get G quality and it's in stock, ready for shipment, unlike the K-Z, which nobody seems to have available and the reviews from users show some alignment problems. Every other site has the G rod for $99.00. Thanks again for turning me on to this device as I love the concept and am going to try one.
thanks for the heads up after using this style tool you will never go back to the clam shell
Thanks guys. Just got my reaction rod today and looking very much forward to using it. Thks again for the great video suggesting this device. Now, let me build that workbench so I can attach the vise I just picked up at Harbor Freight yesterday and then try out the reaction rod.
Where the hell have you guys gone?!?!? You have posted no videos in such a long time. We miss you guys.
We will be back soon.
Like the design and ease of use but I see (2) problems I see with a reaction rod:
1: Torque forces damaging upper receiver in area barrel pin resides in due to all forces during barrel nut torquing /removal are transferred to the PIN that engages into a notch in the threaded section that comes off the receiver the barrel nut screws on.
2: HEAD-SPACE being changed ? (I would think PIN that goes thru barrel extension would have to shear, so probably a non-issue... So #1 is my main concern.
This said the barrel nut itself during period torque is greatest supports area in question. Only time this would be a issue is in times some idiot has severely over tightened nut, put locatite ... In those times the "Super" version of the reaction rod being called for.
WeAreNotAlone69 on the contrary, this totally isolates the receiver from the pin, will not torque on it at all. Same as the Geissele one.
@@NoTimeForThatNow How does it isolate the receiver from the pin? If you're tightening the barrel nut the only thing keeping the upper receiver from spinning is the indexing pin.
Jason Inglehart it won’t damage the receiver is the point. If you can show that it does, make a video about it. I’m sure we’d all like to see it.
I will absolutely, let you guys know. I would prefer to see a small and growing channel like yours, be one of the very first to let TH-camrs know what just happened. Not sure how much longer, but I'll check with my ffl in the morning and see what he knows. I WILL get back with you guys.
Guys, the reaction rod and all barrel spline tools are meant for muzzle end devices only, installing barrel nuts with the device will cause unnecessary stress from the aligning pin on the upper receiver.
I understand Geissele recommends use in both cases, I fully respect his contributions to the industry, however the greatest benefit of the reaction rod is in changing muzzle devices.
It's very hard to bend an upper receiver when installing a barrel properly (that's what barrel-shims are for). Removing the barrel, it's easier to see, however re-using uppers is not always the best, especially when a stripped upper costs around $35.
My reasoning is that the surface area of the threaded section is large and the added diameter over the barrel nut / barrel extension interface appears to have more torque than that being placed on the barrel extension by the nut, thus causing more force between the aligning pin and the upper receiver.
Thanks for the reply, I'm glad you've had the chance to meet Bill himself, he's a legend!
@SeniorTac If you're tightening a barrel nut with this bar installed in a vice the only thing keeping the upper receiver from spinning is the barrel indexing pin.
On sale right now at Botach for $39.98. The AR10/SR25 7.62mm version is $10 more.
Thanks for sharing
@@LibertyMarksmanUSA I have the same Seekins Precision handguard on a 16" 300 BLK barrel which is one of the few uppers that I didn't build. Thanks for showing how it's put together. Your "Gutentight" method of reassembly had me laughing out loud.
Sold, I want one of these! Like the new tag/outro line.
Thanks
This and the Geissele reaction rod DO NOT keep the upper from being twisted by the force of the nut twisting the the threads.....and we've seen the barrel index pin damage and even crack the barrel socket at 30+ lbs of torque.
This is the whole reason Midwest Industries created the MI-URR, and Vism redesigned their new blue action block. I'm not a keyboard warrior, I've been working on and building AR's for 32 years, and have 12 armorer/master armorer's courses I'm my 26 years as a gunsmith.
You guy's put out some good videos to help novice builders with 80% lowers and such, but this and the reaction rod is a bad tool choice for barrel installation and removal, that can lead to big problems if you use it on an over-tourqed nut, or dry threads........
Just a heads up just rails dot com is selling their .308 version for $36.99 with free shipping as of 9/20/19. Theirs is called a reaction bar. Good for torque spec up to 90lbs.
Thanks for sharing!
@@LibertyMarksmanUSA Yeah man! Anything to save a few bucks. Just ordered one. I'll let you know how it works out.
@@EarthAltar definitely let us know
@@LibertyMarksmanUSA Will do. Just got an email from them advertising their Gen 2 version. Can handle 100 + ft. lbs. for tough to break barrel removal. Still way cheaper than the Geissele. As I'm just doing an install I got the Gen 1. Customer service was awesome, and I got a tracking number within an hour. So far so good.
Let us see that magnificent mullet! Be proud!!
I went to the Botach web site a month ago. Made an offer, an option, for the AR15 model and the AR10 model as listed for $59.99. Both offers were noted as serious by their own meter, $52 and $53. They rejected both my offers like they did to @Deplorable 1 as he posted 9 months ago. I ended up buying the Geiselle models. I rather spend more than to get jerked around.
The funny thing is that eBay sends me an e-mail update on firearm tools and this Kley Zion was on the list for $45.99, AR15 model with free shipping. It was a listing by Botach. You just have to wonder.
I went to the Botach web site again, and it is listed on their site for $89.99. So, if you want this one instead of the Geiselle, get it from Botch on eBay not their web site. You can get it at a good price and not get jerk around. LOL
89.99 Fake News
Never understood what the geissele reaction rod was for. Now that looks pretty cool and as much as I like geissele/ALG half price is one hell of a good deal. Will look into the botach reaction rod next time I got some disposable income
I know this is a old post. Just order 2 of the reaction rods from them. Both item combine still less than the price of 1 geisselle
I'm also looking at buying either a bev block or a rod. I'm leaning Bev block but if I do buy a rod it will be a Midwest rod.
th-cam.com/video/C4AHiVGdfFQ/w-d-xo.html
Great video guys. Like your style...
Thank you
I am buying this thanks for the video!
No Problem Bob thanks for watching.
Looks like an early Aero M5e1 model upper. It also has a forgers mark.
Geissele Super Reaction Rod FTW!
Expensive? Yes... But much better product. Especially if your barrel is locked on REAL "good n tight"
Can you explain what makes it so much better? Without details you just sound like a Geissele fanboy trying to justify your overpriced purchase.
Hey!... There it is at Brownells!...
Kley Zion kit is on backorder at present.
Thanks!
No problem
7 years later still back ordered 😏
Awesome tool!
it works so good
Geissele is expensive but if you wait till there Black Friday sale you save a ton of Monday. I paid $60 something for the reaction rod.
since this locks into the barrel extension, the barrel is secure, but the upper is only held in place by the indexing pin .. notice any alignment? 35ish ft lbs shouldnt be sufficient to enlongate that indexing notch on the upper.. but does it have enough wiggle room to misalign something like a gas tube?
that doesnt look like a very precise fit. i would be worried about gouging up the barrel extension. the best way is the rod that has a fin to lock in the charging handle raceway so all the stress isnt on the barrel extension
Gee, thanks guys, linked into another black hole for my credit card. And I was being sooo good. This looks like a much friendlier option, I just got to hating those blocks....
When changing the handguard don't you want to use the Geiselle "Super Reaction Rod"? I heard of the possibility of shearing off your barrel extension index pin. For muzzle devices the regular Reaction Rod would be fine.
We never had a issue with the barrel pin digging in to the receiver. That being said this video was made long before the super reaction rod. If I was in the market for a new one, I would go with the super reaction rod. Thanks for watching.
Liberty Marksman I’m seeing this for $39. The super reaction rod is 175 without shipping. Is it really worth that much more to get the super reaction? Thanks for your input
Great tool and video
Are these reaction rods better than the Magpul Bev Block tool?
It was out before the Magpul. That said no way, the Magpul bev block is much better.
@ 5:50 you are better off tossing the barrel in the freezer for several hours overnight so you don't mess up any heat treat!
The have a Steel version that costs $49.98 and an Aluminum version that costs $24.95. Which one should I buy?
I know it's been years since this video was posted, but I just found it and am wondering the same. What did you end up getting?
@@cbbbbbbbbbbbb I got the steel version but I am sure either would be fine.
He said "holds it firm" and " it's about as solid as it gets" sounds like an advertisement for another product.
I am about to start putting a 6.5 Grendel AR-15 upper together. My guess is that this barrel spline rod will work for that (6.5 Grendel barrel) as well as the standard .233/5.56 mm barrels. Am I correct? If not, what should I get to hold my reciever and barrel while installing the barrel nut and handguard?
Shouldnt you be using a moly grease like aeroshell 33? I was always taught that you apply that to prevent binding from steel being mated to aluminum. I don't think regular old gun oil or break free will do that
We have never had any problems with gaul's
I like using bearing or white lithium grease.
Bob Powers As someone who has decades of working on machines in which are made of steel and aluminum using oil is better than nothing, but a grease, or Anti-Seize is what I'm going to do.
PS: I think the militaries reasoning for NOT using a "OIL", and it using GREASE is that military weapons get used come RAIN or SNOW in areas of ALL kinds of weather conditions for MONTHS at a time and such would cause corrosion between dis-simular metals.
(I can see the weapon being rained on, being used in areas of high humidity for example and the damage such would cause by not using a heavy grease / Anti-Seize.)
Liberty Marksman I think the militaries reasoning for NOT using a "OIL", and it using GREASE is that military weapons get used come RAIN or SNOW in areas of ALL kinds of weather conditions for MONTHS at a time and such would cause CORROSION / GALLING between dis-simular metals.
Also, using a grease, vs a oil makes for easier application, assures that the area that needs to be treated gets 100% coverage and generally less messy.
So yea, grease instead of oil.
.
The annoying part is the orientation of the tool's splines in relation to the rear vise gripping area don't let you align the upper to be completely level. That's really annoying actually.
100% agree with you.
I understand the idea behind this tool or the geissele rod. But putting that much torque into the splines of the barrel extension run the risk of damaging the barrel extension/star chamber?
Is this the tool needed to keep the barrel timed to the upper? In other words, to keep the feed ramps on the barrel and ramps on the upper aligned after tightening the barrel?
Great video guys, I've been searching for a lower-priced reaction arm to replace my flash hider on my 300 Blackout. I noticed when you put the reaction arm in the lugs of the barrel, the barrel was hanging off the arm a little. Is that correct or should it be locked in tighter?
I don't understand how the handguard and upper receiver are "integrated" as the video says, since the handguard screws onto the upper receiver.
The receiver is cut just for that handguard nothing else will fit it but one from them.
Liberty Marksman Yeah, I see how this would make them proprietary, but integrated makes me think of a monolithic unit. Thanks for the reply.
Pardon my ignorance, but would the reaction rod work on all AR15/M4 barrels, regardless of caliber? Is it the splines that are "universal"? I am putting together a build with a 6.5 Grendel barrel and wanted to know if this product would work. Great vid. Thanks.
I can't say for sure I know it works on 556/223 and 300blk.
jcmjr74 Yes it should as the outer dimensions of the bolt head doesn't change, only the inner diameter of the bolt face
how much were these when the vid was made? cause its $80 with your link and the geissele is on sale for $75 right now
Brownells has a version for $49.
What happened to you guys where are you?
We will be back very soon, been working on some big things.
Gunthings.com sells these and one for the AR-10 also.
excellent idea to bad not made for 6 arc yet
Unfortunately a lot of calibers are not made. Just the most common.
looks great for putting barrel nut on until you mess up locating pin on barrel since its taking all the stress when installing barrel its the only thing keeping upper which you are tightening to from moving. stupid tool for barrel nuts.
Also run the risk of messing up the slot the locator pin goes into on the upper receiver. this tool puts all the stress on this small but very important area.
@@twoedgedsword8397 You're one of the few people that understand this. It'd work good for muzzle devices and positional work but not securing the barrel.
You don't understand how this works.
There's ZERO force on the locating pin. The pin interacts with the upper, there's nothing touching the upper therefore no way to impart force. The barrel nut torque is transferred directly the the reaction rod.
@@otm646 So what keeps the upper from turning while torquing the barrel nut? The pin. Its not that hard to understand. Take a old barrel and grind off the pin. Torque it down using this bar to hold the barrel and the upper is going to turn and the barrel is not going to be idexed properly.
You can have an SBR in IL, you need to first have a C&R License and apply for it...
You are 100% correct you can with a C&R but as a regular foid card holding gun owner you can not simple fill out a form 4 and get your tax stamp.
what's a C&R license?
Curios & Relics in short its a collectors license.
is it difficult to get?
How do the splines fit the barrel...looked a little loose.
Appears that the upper never is able to sit straight up in 12 o clock position correct ?
Wow nice review. Is it as good as the Geissele? Got a link for where to get one? I am just barrel and handguard away from new upper. Then just stock pretty much my Ruger AR556 is no longer a Ruger except for the lower and bold release. Everything else has been replaced. Not sure what barrel I have been looking at the Faxon 20" yet they are never in stock. Nor really are any 20" barrel. Looking for long range out of it thus the 20". For handguard I am looking at the ALG EMR and was looking at the Geissele reaction rod yet if this is just as good and half the price hell I will get it. Then just got to build a work bench to put it all together.
What Handguard/Barrelnut is that one?
I don't know if its as good as the Geissele but it defiantly works great. the hand guard is a Seekins and the nut is proprietary to the Seekins upper. You should look at green mountain barrels have used a few and they work really good. here are 2 different links www.botach.com/kley-zion-ar15-m4-armorers-package/
and one other alternative
www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/barrel-tools/ar-15-m16-barrel-extension-torque-tools-prod27452.aspx
Aeroprecesion also has and upper/handguard similar to this....
Went to the website and there is a "make an offer" option for purchasing this product. I made a reasonable offer ($48 which is 20% off and what this video describes as half price of the Geissele) and was replied to with a counter offer of the advertised price $59.99 (what's the point of make an offer option, I'm not going to go through the hassle just to save myself $6 which is 10% off) which is not half the price of the known good quality Geissele for $99. Not to mention if they are willing to use immoral sales methods whose to say they are not willing to use inferior materials for the tool to save money too. You get what you pay for!
Re: "Immoral sales methods, if they are willing to use immoral sales methods whose to say they are not willing to use inferior materials for the tool to save money too. Offered $48 (20% off) Seller counter-offered 10% off.
Vid states this item 1/2 of Geissele version, but price is $59.95 shipped.
1st, Botach can't be held responsible for what is said in vid on TH-cam, Unlessit's Botach that has put out the vid.
Also price increases do occur and pricing can go up and down according to demand.
Then there is the aspect that Botach can maybe only offer 10% off on this item.
In regards to Immoral sales methods, are you saying this because vid says item should be 1/2 cost of Geissele Reaction Tool ? Or saying this as the refused your offer of 20% off and counter-offered 10% off ?
Ask because I'm in the market...
Oh, what did you end up buying? Brownells offers them as well.
.
Didn't realize Aero Precision had changed their barrel nut design.
Will this work for installing a 300 blackout barrel?
Yes it will used it on mine.
I bought this one and it works great. I think the "super" reaction rod features are just a gimmick that Geiselle patented to stop the bleeding of people fully copying their design.
Liberty Marksmen; Haha! Have grease gun will travel! A fellow Maint. Tech. just sub'd ya!
reaction rod $99/Zion $69 thats 1/2 the price? where can you get it for half the price ? thanks for your videos, there great
Try here: I just bought mine.
www.botach.com/kley-zion-ar15-m4-barrel-spline-socket-rod/
Free 3-10 shipping from LVNV. No tax to Florida 49.95
Nope its $59.95 now. Still better than alternative.
what I need to know is the rod caliber specific or it fits all calibers that are in the AR 15 platform?
Re: "Nope its $59.95 now. Still better than alternative."
Q: Kley-Zion ? What alternative ? , Brownells version ?
wearenotalone Geissele reaction rods run about $100 or more.
Nice video you even muzzle sweept your buddies arm at the end.
I have the SD-E, as You know it is 2 stage vs the S3G one stage. I have seen both fired
rapidly and they are close in terms of speed, at least to the necked eye. I LOVE my trigger best upgrade to my rifle.
Damn it, Guys, now I have to find a way to justify this new tool purchase :-) , as your logic regarding its usefulness is simply irrefutable.
We would like to apologize for causing you to spend more money. We totally agree with you never thought we would spend that kinda money on a trigger but we have drank the kool-aid and love them.
Cheers, Yes We have drank the cool-aid, and the cool-aid is cool, quite tasty and good, some might even say nutritious.
This trigger is truly amazing, not that the 5+ pound trigger pull of the stock trigger was overly bad, but this is the equivalent of going from a 1987 ford escort - to a Porsche 918 Spyder , so awe inspiring. so crisp, and precise, so confidence building I could never go back to a stock trigger, without serious withdraw.
Dude, what is the make and model of that vise you got on your workbench? That thing is nice!
Red rock?
Looks like a cool tool!... I can't find one anywhere on the web, including the Botach web site. Any suggestions?
Check theses out www.botach.com/kley-zion-ar15-m4-armorers-package/
and one other alternative
www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/barrel-tools/ar-15-m16-barrel-extension-torque-tools-prod27452.aspx
Liberty Marksman h
I need this
Thanks
Great info guys, but I gotta ask you... Exactly what is that upper/handguard combo? I need one!!!
Seekins Precision upper is a IRMT-R and the handguard is Seekins MCSR V2
Thanks guys, I appreciate it. Keep up the fire and God bless!
No problem and we will
If you go on Botach.com site as suggested, you will only find this item available as part of an armorers kit and the price is $79+, not $39.95, as it has been in the past. Most of us already have plenty of punches so this item is redundant. Seems as though they may have gotten a little greedy due to popularity and no where can you now find just the rod by itself. Throwing in $10.00 worth of punches hardly makes it worth $79. For $20.00 more you can buy a tried and true Geissele Reaction Rod with a proven track record. Not sure what has happened here.
Here is another Alternative, www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/barrel-tools/ar-15-m16-barrel-extension-torque-tools-prod27452.aspx
Thanks much for response. I suppose you could make this work, however, as shown in Brownell's video, this tool is not designed for vise use as the rod is not squared off, is shorter and rounded making it a little awkward in a vise. With a little ingenuity, perhaps, you could make do and at only $44.95 it might be worth a try. Very much enjoy your videos and your video on Kley-Zion rod use is very well done and got me really enthused about using it or something similar. Hopefully, in the future you will be able to buy just the rod from Botach or whoever. In the meantime, it's only available in kit form which site shows out of stock on BACKORDER. Again, great video.
Will it work on multiple calibers?
What state are you in?
Can’t find site
WHo's Muzzle Break???
I know the guy on the right from somewhere.
I would not use a reaction Rod unless you want to destroy your upper receiver
Funny, we have built hundreds of rifles and have never had a problem. There are better tools out there now. At the time not many. Now you can get them that support the receiver and barrel. The only way you would hurt it, is if you torqued the living 💩 out of it. I have never seen anyone who has a clue what they are doing, do that.
I bought the Geissle. With Geissle I know what I'm getting. Plus or minus $30 or $40, doesn't matter.
...and I'm you're 1776th subscriber...woot!
and for that shoot us a email libertymarksman@gmail.com
How come your barrel only has one dimple but the gas block has two set screws? Are you supposed to drill the other dimple?
Does anybody know what barrel nut that was
Yes.
Try magpul bev block
Do they have it for AR10s?
There are two different versions : One for ANY AR that uses a bolt which the OUTSIDE of the bolt is the same as 223 /556, 6.5IIRC
2nd version is for 30 cal and above, as the larger caliber uses a bolt in which the OD of the bolt is larger than the bolt used on 223/556 /6.5
Reaction rods are made for the AR10, So far as xyz vendor carrying such some may not carry AR10 version. Brownells has both versions, Brownells has Brownells version
A crescent wrench??? Not a very precise tool for a precision weapon imo.
Dont tread on my poster but y'all cant have a nfa firearms lmfaoooo
Virgin in German = gutentite
You guys like to Cera Coat, so I'll let you in on a little secret. There is a major change coming in the Cera Coat world. I personally know the guy who is just waiting on his patent to pend, if you know what I mean. I can't give you all the details yet but, when it's ready, you guys will be one of the first I'll let know when it's available. Everything else will be obsolete, trust me, you'll see. You guys are gonna love it. You heard it from me first.... well, almost.
Now you got us all excited, Tell your bud when he is ready to release it if he wants a video done let us know.
Is "what [you] mean" not that he is "waiting on his patent to pend?"
J Sweatt any update?
This guy is fuller o shit than a session of Congress.
WTF is "Cera Coat" anyway? A new mens jacket designed by Superbad star Michael Cera?
The fuck outta here with that garbage.
Brandon Gillette LMAO. TY for a refreshing breath of humor and reason.
Thanks guys geissele could charge 40 dollars for a paper clip they "machined" scallops into with a pair of scissors.
lol $175 + gtfo u can make it for $15 yourself worth about $35 if bought from company. Fucking rip off.
Go German!